Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Hi,
    I just want to wish you a lot of strength and good wishes.  I went
    through what you are going through for 3 1/2 years and I know how
    painful it is!!  Our infertility problem was attributed to a very
    low sperm count.  I went through 2 cycles of perganol hoping to
    make our odds better by having more eggs when we went through the
    Intra Uterine Insemination (IUI) procedure.  I honestly didn't 
    experience any real side effects from this.  However, because the
    shot is administered into the muscle, you will get sore and have
    some discomfort when walking or lying or your side.  The HCG shot
    did cause headaches and quesiness for me, but that just lasted a
    day.  Unfortunately, I didn't have results on perganol because my
    eggs weren't maturing correctly, and after 2 procedures my Dr.
    transferred to another hospital.  I had joined a support group
    at the hospital where I was going, and a lot of the woman there
    had had success on perganol and were going for treatments to have
    a second child.  It is especially effective for woman who don't
    ovulate.  After that I was on Clomid for a year to regulate my cycle 
    for the IUI's.  I experienced more side effects with this such as 
    irratability and depression.  In February we changed to an HMO and, 
    therefore, had to change Dr.'s.  He suggested we go to Boston for the 
    GIFT program and put our names in for adoption.  By a miracle it
    turned out I was pregnant when he gave me this advice and everyone 
    was shocked.
    
    Please don't be afraid of the perganol.  I know anything that
    involves getting a shot every day for a week sounds terrible,
    but it really isn't bad, and it gives you so much hope.  Hopefully,
    you'll be able to take it long enough so that they will be able
    to give you the correct dosage.  I think that is the trick and it
    takes a couple months of careful monitoring (ultrasounds).  
    
    I don't know what your specific problem is, but please don't give
    up hope. I know that sometimes you just get so sick of all
    the dr.'s appointments and discomfort and don't feel like the 
    emotional pain anymore).   They are making so many advances in this 
    field these days that your odds are getting better and better.  Six 
    months ago I never would have believed I would be a success story.
    
    Good Luck!!!!!!!
    Megan
               

    Several notes in PARENTING_V2 discuss infertility and infertility
    drugs:
    
    310 	Infertility Frustrations
    470		Perginol, Clomed, ... Help!
    1245	Infertility Anyone?
    1319	Secondary Infertility
    1340 	Infertility Counselling in NH
    1703	HCG Shots and Secondary Infertility
    2141 	Clomid questions

    The first time I did Pergonal I thought there were all sorts of
    side effects -- dizziness and so forth, but after this first time
    I ascribed most of what I thought I felt to simply heightened awareness
    of my own bodily cycles.  
    
    For me, the biggest danger was in the knowledge of what was going
    on inside me -- seeing the follicles develop on ultrasound, was
    it fast enough, good enough, etc.  HCG was no big deal.  Be aware
    that sometimes there are two pergonal shots a day and it may be
    necessary to include LUPRON if you surge before the HCG.  Lupron
    is no big deal and it doesn't hurt to give yourself a pin prick
    in the tummy fat, assuming you have some of that, like most of us.
    
    With the Pergonal, at first it was Pergonal driving me, but after
    a while I learned how to drive it.  That's the key.  Get into the
    right frame ofmind, talk to a lot of people, understand as many
    different effects it can have on people (mostly emotional) and go
    for it.  I never got pregnant with Pergonal, which they used after
    Clomid to regular a luteal phase defect which was maybe causing
    the miscarriages, but I would do it again, but now we've got a baby
    waiting -- if we can just get her out of Romania. Good luck to you.
    
    Oh yes, make sure you always have someone to give you your shot,
    have the n eedles and drug with you, timing is not as crucial as
    they say -- and you'll end up with some funny stories if you go
    on trips, trying to get people to stick you.  I didn't get really
    sore, but that is probably a personal issue.  

    Pergonal must be monitored closely because too much can cause serious
    ovarian swelling.  You should be having daily ultrasounds.  Try to get
    someone else to give you the shots in your backside.  If you give it
    to yourself, you'll have to take in the thigh, and you can get very sore.

    In our experience, an HCG shot was used to trigger ovulation when
    the follicles were big enough.  HCG is no big deal.  We did some IUIs
    with HCG only (so-called "natural cycles") before we started Pergonal.

    Side effects:
	1. Soreness from the injections (no big deal when done in the backside).
	2. Bloating and abdominal pressure -- watch this carefully, because
	   overstimulation of the ovaries is dangerous.
	3. Major-league depression a week or so after the HCG shot.

    Success?  Not yet, but we've only done two Pergonal cycles.  BTW,
    you'll only do Pergonal every second cycle -- apparently, your body
    can't handle it every month.  It's serious stuff -- read the package
    insert and you'll see that.

    First I want to wish you the best of luck.  Hopefully some of the
    info. I can give here will help with your decision, I know from
    experience that it is not an easy one.
    
    My husband and I went the Luprin, Pergonal, and Profasi method of
    fertility.  I don't ovulate.  My program was a Luprin and Pergonal
    shot every day, the Luprin was given in the leg, the Pergonal was
    given in the fatty area above the hip.  Neither shot really hurt,
    the Pergonal was the most uncomfortable, but not really painful.
    The side effects I experienced other than being on an emotional
    rollercoaster, was hyperstimulation - when the folicles that don't
    break off from the Profasi injection become enlarged to the point
    that they are called cysts.  This was not at all painful for me,
    although I have heard that it can be very uncomfortable.  I was
    experiencing a mild case, so staying off my feet in a prone position
    was the cure.  I was usually fine within a week.  
    
    This particular program does call for alot of ultrasounds, I had
    one once a week or so.
    
    The best side effect is that we are now expecting TWINS (another
    product of the fertility program).  We are thrilled, and are due
    in early December.  I became pregnant during the second cycle of
    this program, which surprised my Dr. it usually takes anywhere from
    6 mths. to a year.  Wonderful things can happen, and it was all
    worth it!
    
    I wish you all the luck in the world, and hope that the replys to
    your initial note help.  
    
    Another piece of info....since I started the fertility program,
    it's amazing how many other women out there have been on the same
    thing.  I have heard a couple of instances where the woman became
    pregnant on the third cycle. To think, this program began with helping
    woman through a tough menapause a mear 5 years ago....this science
    has moved leaps and bounds so quickly.
    
    If you can, let us know how you progress.
    
    All the best...
    
    Cynthia
    

re .5:

    First, congratulations.

>    The side effects I experienced other than being on an emotional
>    rollercoaster, was hyperstimulation - when the folicles that don't
>    break off from the Profasi injection become enlarged to the point
>    that they are called cysts.  This was not at all painful for me,
>    although I have heard that it can be very uncomfortable.  I was
>    experiencing a mild case, so staying off my feet in a prone position
>    was the cure.  I was usually fine within a week.  
    
>    This particular program does call for alot of ultrasounds, I had
>    one once a week or so.

    You're very lucky that the hyperstimulation was mild (read the
    Pergonal package insert if you want to know what severe hyperstimulation
    can do).  If you'd been having ultrasounds as often as more conservative
    doctors do it (like every other day), you probably wouldn't have been
    as hyperstimulated.

    With moderate, carefully monitored use of Pergonal, about 30% of
    pregnancies will be multiples, the vast majority of those being twins.

 My Dr. has been using this type of fertility program for a couple of
    years now, and believe it or not I was his first multiple birth
    patient.  
    
    Multiples must be on the rise however, while shopping for a tandom
    carriage, one salesperson said that last year his store sold about
    3, this year they have already sold 12!  Must be alot of women out
    there going the fertility route.
    
    As I think back on the ultrasounds I had (seems SO long ago), I
    believe that I had them about every other day.  Being pregnant does
    strange things to your mind.  
    
    I know that the dosages I was taking were really quite small,
    especially during the second cycle.
    
    If I were planning to have more than 2 children, I would do it all
    over again.
    
    

    I would like to ask a specific question about Clomid for a friend who
    is currently undergoing treatment. (I have already scanned the notes in
    both this version and V2 and have not seen this specifically
    addressed.)
    
     First, for those of you who experienced anxiety and/or depression, how
    long did it last for, i.e. if you were on Clomid from days 5-9, did it
    last through the remainder of your cycle?
    
    Second, what kind of weight gain from fluid retention did you
    experience, if any?
    
    Thanks,
    Norma
    

    i took clomid for two cycles about 5 years ago.
    
    my husband and my friends said i was something out of the
    Exorcist. i do remember the onset and the abatement of the
    mood swings was directly tied to the days surrounding taking
    the pills.
    
    j.

    continuation of last note...
    
    - re fluid retention : other than mood changes i had no other
      side effects
    
    a friend of mine was on it at the same time and by the third
    cycle she fell into one of the clomid statistical groups : 8% possibility
    of multiple birth....she ended up with healthy twins..boy and girl.

    Norma,
           
    I was on Clomid for 3 months before I conceived my daughter.  My doctor
    instructed me to take the clomid on days 5 - 9, I would take my pill
    first thing in the morning when I woke up.  During days 5 - 9 I did
    feel depression and hot flashes.  During the last month I tried taking
    the medication before I retired for the night and found that I would
    feel the hot flashes during the night and it did not bother me quite as
    much.  Tell your friend to try taking it in the evening and maybe she
    will not feel the depression quite as much.
    
    No I did not feel the side effects the whole month, just the days that
    I was taking the medication.  Wish your friend the best of luck!
    
    :-)
    Bethany 

    Norma,
    
    I was on Clomid for two cycles.  I had the hot flashes but not the mood
    swings. However, I am not bothered by PMS that much.
    
    Donna 

    My son is a product of a Clomid conception.  Plus the progesterone from
    day 18 on to keep the hormone level up where it should be.  Did anyone
    else use Progesterone with the Clomid.
    
    I don't remember real mood swings, except when you think you *are* and
    then discover you *wern't* pregnant.  I guess the mood swings were due
    to the emotional roller coaster not the Clomid.  But the doctor did
    warn me, and I did get nausea during the medication (both cause
    nausea).
    
    Best of luck, I'll be thinking of you since I've been there!!
    Lyn
    

    Has anyone ever been on Clomid or Pergonal (fertility drugs)?  My
    dr. is just about certain that I'm not ovulating, and is prescribing
    Clomid to stimulate the system, so to speak.  What were your
    experiences?  Did you have any side effects, and if so, what were
    they?  How long did it take you to get pregnant after you started
    the medication?  If you'd rather, you can reply to me at ICS::NELSONK
    instead of here in the file.
    
    Thanx,
    Kate

For Clomid, see 340.*.  Did your doctor say that he wants to put you
on Pergonal?  Is he a regular OB/GYN or an infertility specialist?

    He wants to put me on Clomid.  He doesn't "do" Pergonal; I only
    brought it up because I thought the experiences might be similar.
    He's a "regular" OB/GYN who is head of the OB/GYN department at
    our local hospital.  He's not an infertility specialist, but I
    believe I'll get a prompt referral if he thinks it's necessary.
    We're taking it one step at a time...
    
    Thanx for your concern, .1.

    Yes, I have been on CLomid.  I took 50 mg. for about 4 months and
    then a year later was taking 100 mg. for 6 months.  
    
    The only side effects that I had was hot flashes.  I would only
    get these hot flashes on the 5 days that I took the Clomid.
    
    I still am not pregnant.  I am in the process of changing
    to an Infertility Specialist.  I could'nt get an appointment
    untill Nov. 13....so I'm just waiting.
    
    It sounds like you've been taking your temp.  Have you
    done any infertility tests yet?  How long have you been trying?
    
    I don't know where your from, but one of the best things my
    husband and i did was join a RESOLVE support group.  We have
    realy gotten a great education about infertility, and have
    learnt from others experiences.
    
    Just be carefull of something.  When I started taking Clomid
    the first time I thought it was going to be a miricle pill.
    I was realy disappointed every month when it did'nt work.
    
    Best of luck to you,
    
    Deb 
    

    I just saw my doctor today after doing a cycle of Pergonal and Profasi
    and I did ovulate, however, I had the LH surge on my own at the same
    time as the HCG and things really got messy.  Once the cysts disappear
    my new treatment will be Luprin, Pergonal and Profasi and I was
    wondering for those of you who used Luprin, did John Hancock cover it
    under the PCS card?  I know they cover pergonal and Profasi but my
    doctor wasn't sure if they would cover Luprin.
    
    Any information anyone can give me with regards to Luprin would be
    greatly appreciated.
    
    Thank you.
    Cheryl
    

As far as I know, they cover all FDA-approved prescription drugs.  Are you
concerned because Luprin isn't FDA-approved for your condition?  (BTW, I'm
not saying that this is the case.)  How would they know whether it's for
an approved use or not?

Why don't you call JH and ask?  You don't have to identify yourself.
It shouldn't take more than half an hour to get through.

    PCS covered Lupron for me.
    

    For those of you who used Lupron, what side affects did you have
    from taking this medication?  If it was taken while using Pergenol, 
    what was the outcome, did it help?
    
    I go to my doctor on Friday and I would like to hear what others have
    experienced so that I can discuss these things with him.  I'd
    appreciate any information anyone has.
    
    Cheryl
    

    My wife used Lupron with Pergonal.  She experienced no side effects
    whatever.  The result, however, was that the Lupron shut down her
    hormonal system so completely that it neutralized the effects of the
    Pergonal.  She went through two more cycles, both with Metrodin (pure
    FSH, without any LH like Pergonal has) and no Lupron, and her
    estradiol level elevated like it should have.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Steve

>    My wife used Lupron with Pergonal.  She experienced no side effects
>    whatever.

I don't know about Lupron, but Pergonal without side effects is very unusual.

>>    My wife used Lupron with Pergonal.  She experienced no side effects
>>    whatever.
>
>I don't know about Lupron, but Pergonal without side effects is very unusual.

Pat started taking the Lupron sometime before starting the Pergonal, to be 
sure the Lupron was doing its thing.  The Lupron had none of the side 
effects we had heard of, like hot flashes, etc.  When she started the 
Pergonal, she had a sore hip from the shots, and thought she tired more 
easily than usual, but those were the only side effects she experienced.  
For some reason, when she took the Metrodin she didn't experience any 
soreness like she did with the Pergonal.

Steve

BTW, Pat was taking 10 vials per day of the Pergonal (and later the
Metrodin) in two shots ... a massive dose by anybody's definition. 

    I've been on chlomid since January.  Luckily, it's been doing what it's
    suppose to do.  So, I haven't had to go with anything else...yet!
    Course, I'm still not pregnant...
    
    Do keep in mind, tho, that it may not all be the woman.  Even if the
    husband has had the standard semen analysis and things looked OK,
    there's additional tests he can have done.  The problem may be a combo
    of both of you.  Don't ignore going further with hubby.
    
    Example:  My friend had the whole routine of tests, hubby had the
    analysis, and nothing was happening.  Her husband went back for
    additional tests, one of which is a specific motility test.  They found
    that was the problem, he had minor day-surgery and she conceived a
    month or two later.  
    
    There are so many other variables and combinations that you should
    never just rely on the first one they find.  In addition to not
    ovulating and/or hormone level problems, there could be other factors,
    additionally.  In my case, I thought the chlomid would do it.  But,
    we're finding there's got to be something else.  Hope we figure it out,
    soon!  I'm greying!  ;-|
    
    -d

re .25:

>    Example:  My friend had the whole routine of tests, hubby had the
>    analysis, and nothing was happening.  Her husband went back for
>    additional tests, one of which is a specific motility test.  They found
>    that was the problem, he had minor day-surgery and she conceived a
>    month or two later.  

    Standard semen analysis includes count, motility, and morphology.
    Perhaps he had a sperm penetration test (the so-called hamster egg
    test), which measures the ability of the sperm to penetrate the
    egg.  In any case, if the surgery was a varicocelectomy, the
    typical waiting period before sperm quality improves is 3-4 months
    (that's how long it takes for new sperm to be formed).

    re .26  
    
    You're right...makes more sense.  I just went by what she said to me
    recently.  Guess she's forgotten over 3 years.
    
    -d

    Re. 25
    
    I don't want to alarm you but, the specialist I am seeing now said that
    if you are on clomid for longer than 6 months it could attribute
    towards your infertility.  I wish I had known that because I was doing
    clomid for 3 years prior to seeing him and nothing.  And the longer I
    was on it, the more my cycles got screwed up.  
    
    Just an FYI.
    
    Cheryl
    

    Well, I'm not alarmed.  My cycles are pretty much the same and I've
    only been on the 50mg all along.  I'm pretty confident with my doctor,
    too.  But, I'm going to mention it to him and get his reaction.
    
    Thanks...
    
    -d

    Has anyone taken Clomid even though you have normal cycles?  My doctor
    says that if by Jan 91 I have not conceived, he'll place me on Clomid.
    We have had all the tests and all is normal, but the biopsy of the
    uterus is a little off (but within limits).
    
    Any inputs?

    Our Dr. has just prescribed Clomid for my husband (he has low
    motility).  Can anyone tell me if my hubby will be experiencing
    side effects?  Does this have any success for males?  And is it 
    the usual 3 month waiting period?
    
    Thanks,
    Sue

I've been doing a lot of research into this, and I've found the following:

1. If there's a varicocele, a varicocelectomy sometimes helps.  No one knows
   why.  There are many fertile men with varicoceles.

2. Unless there's a hormonal imbalance, hormones don't help.  Clomid and
   Pergonal are sometimes used, but the studies I've read say they don't
   work.

3. If the level of seminal zinc is low, zinc may help, but it's no silver
   bullet.

What's your husband's doctor's specialty?  What does RESOLVE think of him?
There are many urologists who really don't know diddly about male infertility.  
Ask him what studies he's basing Clomid treatment on.  Go to a medical library
and look up those studies and others on hormonal treatment of infertility.

    Hummm, you got me thinking now.  All his tests were fine.  No hormonal
    imbalance, and no varicocele.  I think it's stress related, but every
    Dr. we talk to says that it won't make that much of a difference.  
    
    I however, have read that Clomid helps improve count and motility.  I
    read that in "A Couples Guide to Fertility", and another pregnancy
    book I have.  Guess this stuff is really a mystery.
    
    My husband's Dr. is supposed to be one of the best Urologist around,
    but we never really did any checking.  My Dr. recommended him.  He
    seems to be up on "infertility", but we haven't been going to 
    Infertility Specialists.  
    
    

re: .30......

Yes, I have a VERY  regular cycle and took Clomid for 5 months (I am just back to work after
giving birth to a wonderful baby girl in October!!)


My husband had a low sperm count. After numerous surgical proceedures (fix a severed VAS , fix
a varicocele , and more) his count still remained low so we chose to try Intra Uterine 
Insemination. For those of you that are out there trying, keep at it and do your best to 
remain positive. Find a good specialist, understand what your treatment is and trust in the
process. 

After trying IUI for 2 months with no success (and no drugs) my doctor chose to put me on clomin
for days 5 thru 9, ultrasound about day 11 to see how the folicles were doing and when 'things
looked ripe' - the shot of HCG. 24-48 hours after the shot I went thru IUI. It took 3 trys this
way to finally get pregnant. I never remember any side effects from the Clomid - it could be that
we were both so tense from the tests and schedules and cancelled meetings at work (when the
eggs are ready...who cares about anything else). The hardest part was the 2 weeks waiting for
the results - no side effect could compare to this for me.

Clomid worked for me but then I have a friend who had no success with it and was put on Pergonal
for 5 months. She too is about to return to work at DEC after her maternity leave.

Hang in there. My prayers are with all of you still trying!

Dena