Conference moira::parenting

I give my kids lots of fruit which seems to work for them.  Grapes and melon
seem to be two that always do the job, so I mix in a lot of that while
still giving them bananas which are a favorite.  It sort of all balances 
out that way.  And when Jessica gets really constipated, I give her prunes
which she just loves, but they do tend to react quickly and quite well with
her, so she doesn't get them often.

Try adding more fruits to the diet.  My kids don't drink that much, so they
get mostly milk with maybe a glass of juice in the afternoon.

    My doctor says "P" fruits are the best...peaches, pears, pineapple,
    prunes.........
    
    Bananas are binding so try and stay away from them....
    
    (Apple juice also works well on my daughter)
    
    

Apples are tricky, tho.  Apple juice is binding, and so is good when a kid
has diarrhea, but apple sauce is not and lots of it can cause diarrhea.

I personally think it has something to do with whether the peel is included
during processing, but that's opinion - undirtied by fact.

Pat

    Apple juice always gives David the runs.  
    
    Raisins are good for that, too. 
    
    --bonnie

    In my experience, .3 has it backwards - for my kids, too much
    applejuice gives them loose stools and applesauce is great for
    diarrhea! Maybe the lesson is that you have to try a few things
    and see what works.
    
    (Remember the B.R.A.T. diet for diarrhea: bananas, rice, applesauce
    (not juice) and toast -- stay away from too much of this stuff for
    constipation.)
    
    Lucy

    
    
    A couple of things we do to help 'move things through' are:
    
    - serve only whole wheat bread 
    - alter baking recipes by substituting whole wheat flour for a portion
      of the flour called for
    - sprinkle wheat germ on hot cereal, add a little to cookies, cakes 
      etc.
    
    Shannon has been under the care of a pediatric gi doctor who recommends
    no bananas, no apples or applesauce (juice is ok).  We also give her a 
    little Agarol (mineral oil in a marshmallow flavoring) everynight. 
    Course, don't do that without seeking a doctor's opinion first.
     

    Bananas work both ways - they are good for constipation and for
    diarrhoea. What works for us - Bananas, raisins, grapes, veggies, juice
    or just warm water a few times a day.
    
    Shaila

Fortunately my kids are and always have been very regular.  But I do remember
that when Dirk got instestinal infections at 5 weeks, the doctor put him on
a diet of pureed carrots and black tea.  Cleared the diarrhea in about two days.
So I guess carrots are one thing to avoid if your baby is constipated.

But then he was a pretty sick little thing.

ccb

    Also,
    
    Let's not forget, it's corn on the cob season!  Works like a charm on
    my guys.
    
    NF
    

Graham, at 6 mos when we started him on solids, seemed to bind up on just
about everything.  Now that he's older and has a less restricted diet he
seems fine, but will occasionally get a bout of un-runs.

What we found was that bananas, carrots, applesauce, and sweet potatoes in
particuluar caused problems, along with rice (brown rice cereal, which I
thought would not be binding, but anyway...)

We found that pears and prunes really worked well for him, and since he
loved both we had no problems getting him to eat them.

Sometimes changing his diet didn't work well though, and after several days
of no BMs we'd resort to glycerine suppositories (baby ones, available at
drugstores), which worked like a charm.  There is a danger of the baby
becoming "dependent" on these, however, if used too often, so check with
your doctor before using them.

~Caryn

    My daughter age 15 months has had an awful time "moving her bowels"
    shall we say, for the past 3 months or so.  Just getting really
    bad this past 2 weeks.  I call the doctors at least once a week,
    only to be told.  Give her prune juice, prunes, karo syrup in
    her bottles, no more cheese, not more than 16 ozs of milk a day,
    etc.  I have done all of the above - with no luck, and she is
    getting worse by the day.
    
    Worse, meaning she strains to go the bathroom, face turns almost
    purple, grunts and cries.  That normally happened about 5 times a 
    day, now it has happening at least every 10 minutes !!!!!  When 
    we brought her to the doctor on Monday, the doctor checked her to
    be sure that there were no obstructions, (which there wasn't thank 
    God) but that her bowels were full and we had to do something to
    clean her out.  We were told to give her a suppository, which we
    did before, nothing happened but a small movement.  Her bottom
    is so RAW she will not let us near it to clean her never mind putting
    in another suppository ...... and when we do finally get to put it
    in (of what we think is in) she pushes back out.
    
    What the doctor thinks and now we think is she is not pushing but
    holding the movement in because it hurts to much to come out.
    
    What I am getting at is two things.
    
    Was anyone told by their doctor to use an over the counter "oral"
    laxitive/stool softener for a 15 month old ??  I was told yesterday
    by my doctors office NO she is too young.  To keep trying with
    the suppositories !!   
    
    Also any tricks for cleaning and getting rid of her awful raw bum ??
    All I can do is cry  !!
	
    Sorry for the long note, but I'm at my wits end and feel so badly
    for her .........
    
    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Thanks !!
    
    
    p.s.
    
    I plan to keep bugging the doctor daily until this is resolved.
    
    

    One more thing.  The doctor has taken her off of whole milk and
    back onto soy formula, which I hope will work (I wish she thought of
    that before !!).
    
    But in the meantime, she has to GO !!
    
    Thanks !!
    
    

    I had this happen with Nick, also 15 months. It happened right after I
    started giving him cheese. I ended up having him drink mega amounts
    of baby Pear juice, which usually goes right through babies, laid him
    down, and with the help of his dad, I was able to get a supository in.
    After I put it in I would just keep giving him hugs and kisses while I
    had his legs tucked up to his chest. His dad would distract him by
    showing him things and talking to him. He cryed most of the time, but 
    at least we were able to keep the supository in long enough for it
    to start working. When he started pushing he would fight to get away
    because it hurt but I just held his legs up to his chest. It was
    real hard and big so I put alot of vasaline around the area to try and
    make it easier for him. He ended up bleeding alittle because it
    did rip him alittle as it came out, but the relief on his face was
    worth me doing what I had to do to help him. 
    Everyday he gets a small amount of pear juice, no cheese, and drinks
    2% milk. 
    Your daughter needs to be cleaned out soon or the Dr. might end up
    having to do it which might be more tramatic than if you did it for
    her.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Sherry
     

    We went through almost 18 months of this with my son Robbie (now 5).
    We finally had to use the children's enemas (sp?) at least every 2
    weeks for 2 months (on dr's orders) to get him going again.
    
    What we've found finally worked for us was Veryfine Papaya juice &
    later chewable papaya pills.  Rob now gets 1 pill a week & everything's
    been running fine for about a year now (What a relief not to watch
    him strain!!)  This doesn't work for everyone, but we found it to
    work well with Rob.
    
    My thoughts are with you.
    
    Beth

    
    Have you tried baked beans?
    
    If Rebecca has not gone for 2 or 3 days (and being veggie she is
    usually very regular!!), I give her beans to eat. 
    
    Apple juice (and slices) will also help.
    
    Plus if you can cope with the clean-up op, sitting the child in a warm 
    bath will help get things going. Just stand by with toilet tissue and
    be prepared to have to run a clean bath!!
    
    re -1 - I use those for my rabbits to stop them getting fur-ball when
    they moult :-)
    
               seals
    
    

    Do any of the physicians offer an explanation as to why this might 
    happen? Of course there is the list of things one should give or
    not give to the child, but why is it some of these children have
    so much of a problem? 
    
    Monica

    Ask the doctor about these products:
    
    	Malt Supex - it's expensive but is available in both powder and
    syrup variations.  It needs to be mixed with something (I used
    chocolate milk - made it have a "mocha" taste) - this was for my middle
    son when he was around 15 mos.  If your dr. says ok to try this and you
    live in the Merrimack, NH area send me mail - I may have some you can
    have.
    
    	Kondremul - mineral oil based laxative.  My 4.5 yr old is on this
    for the next 3-5 months because he did the stool-holding thing so much
    he stretched his colon out of shape.  This can be hard to find - I was
    special ordering it from my drugstore til I saw it at Wal-Marts in
    Amhert, NH for $4.00 less!
    
    	FLEET Infant enema will get rid of the poop your child has in them
    now - this is what we had to give my 4.5 yr. old.  Then follow up with
    one of the above.
    
    	Once your child is able to poop normally again (whatever THAT is!)
    her bum should clear up.  Just use the "regulars" - Desitin, A&D, etc. 
    I found that Ammens powder worked better than Caldasene (sp?).
    
    Any other ?'s just send mail
    
    Linda

For the raw butt, try things like Desitin or straight zinc oxide, and
put it on real thick.  Also, don't wipe it clean when you wipe her butt so
that you don't irritate the skin. Just apply some more. You can try mixing
in something for 'glue' to help it stick like Stomahesive powder (I might
have some of this left from Brad -- where are you located?)  

We tried everything, and ended up having the best luck with plain yogurt
applied to the butt.  It worked wonders for Brad's bleeding diaper rash,
but didn't do a thing for Jessica's -- different things work better on
different kids.

Good luck.

Cathy

    
    Random thoughts:
    
    Raisins and whole grain breads and cereals can help stimulate
    the system as well as drinking plenty of just plain old water. 
    
    In addition to looking at foods that might help to move the
    bowels, you might also look into eliminating those that are
    known to constipate - bananas, rice, etc.   Be careful with the
    soy formula - last I knew (and my experience with toddlers is a 
    few years old), soy formula all contained iron - a definite 
    constipator!
    
    I also seem to recall that we were able to relieve some of
    Jason's constipation episodes by massaging the lower abdomen
    and/or exercising his legs (bring them up to his chest and
    out again)....anyone else ever have luck this way?
    
    Carol
    
    

    re:  a few back....Apples ARE constipating, apple juice is
    not...something about the sugars....
    
    
    Shannon had the same problem as outlined by the base noter, boy I don't
    envy you.
    
    We tried Malt suprax, corn syrup, molasses but the only thing that
    worked was Agarol.  This was suggested by the specialist that her pedi
    finally referred her to, unfortunately it wasn't early enough before
    she got to the point where she wouldn't let us wipe her bottom because 
    she expected to be stuck with a suppository.  We switched to enemas 
    (she didn't like those either but they *always* worked) when she 
    absolutely had to be cleaned out.
    
    Shannon would fight the urge so bad she would vomit. If the Agarol
    hadn't worked, they suggested she see a psychologist because there was
    no physical explaination for her holding back.
    
    We have been weaning her from the Agarol since she potty trained this
    summer, but we do occassionally give it to her when we see she has a
    hard time pooping.
    
    Beth
    
    
    This is mineral oil based, and comes in marshmallow or
    rasberry flavors and should be perscribed by a doctor.  
    
    
    
    
    

    re:  a couple back...
    
    My baby had diarrhea so bad the dr put her on soy formula as part
    of the way to help clear it up....
    
    Base noter - I'd dbl check on this - iron is constipating and
    I don't recall ever seeing soy without iron.
    

    Thats funny, you don't know how many people have told me that soy has
    iron and iron is constipating.   BUT I called my doctor (twice by the
    way - with the same question) (because Grammi didn't beleive me the
    first time) - and asked about this, because her vitamins have
    iron in them, as well as the soy formula !!!  Both times I was
    told it's natural iron and won't pose a problem !!!
    For some reason that doesn't sound correct to me.  But I am hoping
    they know what they are talking about.
    
    Abby goes to the doctors again this afternoon.  She has since had
    a semi hard, small poop, but thats it !!   I stayed home with
    her yesterday, she's in good spirits considering ...... but is
    still turning purple holding back !!
    
    Thanks everyone for the suggestions.  I appreciate the help !!
    
    Joanie
          

    Have you seen a specialist?  I think you need a second opinion.
    FWIW - Iron in formula and vitamins isn't what I would consider
    'natural'.
    
    

    I don't know about the vitamins, but was told by my pediatrican
    that the amount of iron in formula is very small and not usually
    the cause of constipation.  
    
    For what it's worth ...
    
    Nancy

    re:-1
    
    The iron in the formula can be a BIG cause of the constipation. Avanti
    had a rough time with constipation ever since she was born. I took her
    off iron formula within days of starting iron fortified formula.
    
    Shaila

    
    I'm switching Lauren to milk from formula.  Currently, I mix 12 oz
    milk with 16 oz of formula (28 oz total).  She drinks about 35 oz
    of this mix per day so figure 14 oz milk.  Anyhow, she is constipated.
    Should I cut back on the milk/formula ratio or just hold steady until
    she gets over it.  She can go a little (had a small rock hard poop 
    yesterday and another today) but she cries and struggles with it.
    
    Karen

Will she eat prunes?  Maybe a half of one of those tiny jars of
baby prunes will do the trick...

When this happened to us I just kept Noelle on the milk
transition program.  It eventually abated...  (And then
returned with a vengeance at around 2 years and we're
still trying to adjust her diet appropriately :-(

Hmmm....  maybe you won't want my advice!!

- Deb B.

    
    No deal on either the prunes or the prune juice.  She absolutely
    refused both!  (Can't say I blame her.... yuk!)
    
    Two people mentioned cutting back to 2% milk.  Anybody try this?
    I know that she should be on whole milk but maybe I could do 2% 
    until she is comfortable, then do whole milk?
    
    Also, how much milk should she have a day.  The recommended daily
    allowance is 24 oz.  She drinks up to 40 oz/day!  Is this too much?
    She doesn't drink much juice because juice does not come in bottles 
    (my rule, same for water) and she doesn't much care for cups... will 
    maybe drink 1 oz.  I've also tried to give her food more often but 
    if she really wants her bottle, no food will do!  
    
    Karen

    karen,
    
    I don't know about milk.  since we have allergies to cows milk I don't
    even bother giving it to the kids and go to other methods for calcium
    and  protien when they wean from the breast.  
    
    However, my old mother said she used to put a tablespoon of Karo syrup
    in a bottle with milk when my little sister got "plugged."  Will she
    eat a ripe pear?  Atlehi isn't much for "suacy" fruits, but she loves a
    dead ripe pear and will eat the skin and all.
    
    meg

	We had a similar situation with Kristen. (Not when she switched to
	milk, but when she switch from breast to formula)  The doctor suggested
	a tbsp of Karo syrup in an 8oz bottle and it worked!  Once she was
	"regular" and not constipated I started to decrease the amount of 
	Karo syrup and then started putting it in every other bottle.
        I guess it just took time for her system to get use to the new drink.

	Luckily Kristen didn't have this problem when switching to milk.
	
	Some other thoughts: What about raison toast (for the raisons) or
                             canned pears or some other fruits that loosen
	                     things up.  And avoid bananas, rice and other
	                     binding things.

	Good Luck,
	Karen T.

    One thing that always helped with Jessica is Apple Juice.   Not only
    did it loosen her up when she was constipated, but if she drank too
    much she would get diarrhea.  
    
    

    HI Karen,
    
    I used Karo syrup too with Shannon.  But what first came to mind when I
    read your note was that maybe Lauren isn't ready for the switch.  Who
    told you to switch her to milk?  I would go back to formula and try
    again in a few days/weeks and gradually mix the two again.  She is just
    about  year old right?  I switch both my kids months after their 1st
    birthday.
    
    I would *NOT* go to 2% milk.  Babies need fat to develop their little
    bodies!  ( mainly the nervous system if I rememeber correctly)

    
    My doctor told me that apple juice is binding and apples are not. 
    
    Though I'm sure every child is different it did have that 
    effect on my daughter.   Since she only likes apple juice I add
    water to it.   They also told me to try the sugar drinks (like HI-C)
    just to add more liquid to her diet but she won't drink them either.
    
    Teri

foods that generally bind:
   bananas
   starches (like pastas, bread, rice)
   applesauce
   apple juice (for some individuals)
   cheese

foods that generally loosen
   veggies
   fruits (especially peaches, pears, prunes, plums)
   fruit juices -- especially purple juices
   bran 
   
And if anyone has any additional suggestions (especially for the
"foods that loosen"), *please* add them.

Noelle gets constipated *so* easily and then we get on a vicious
cycle:  Noelle is constipated so having a bowel movement is
painful.  Since it was painful, she holds it in.  Since she's
holding it in, it gets hard.  Noelle is constipated...
We've been feeding her Frosted Bran with 2 prunes in the
morning and even that doesn't always do the trick!  (Luckily
this kid likes prunes :-)

    Deb,
    
    If you haven't already you might  want to make the switch to whole
    grain pasta and rice.   Carrots also tend to work as a softener but not
    loosener in my experience.  I use them cooked for both problems.
    
    meg

When my Lauren was small the doctor had us put a little sugar
in her bottle to keep her from being constipated.  We tried 
a ~1/4 tsp and monitored results.

As she got older we did juices (with lots of water added) and
the gerber prunes (which she ate).  The first juice she really
like is the Welchs white grape.

She is now almost 3, and I give her soups for meals and juice
when I notice a problem.  She does eat veggies (brocolli,
baby tomatos and asparagus) - but not a wide variety.

    
    Well, Laurens constipation resolved itself yesterday.  That is not to
    say that she will not be constipated again with this formula to milk
    transition but she had a normal bm yesterday.
    
    As far as age, she just turned 1 year old and the Dr said that I could
    start switching to milk.  
    
    I'll be posting some questions elsewhere about what a toddler should
    eat as soon as I find the note.
    
    Karen

	Karen,

	I don't think 2% milk would solve the problem, anyway.

	The protein in cow's milk is more difficult to digest
	than the protein in formula.  The fat isn't really the problem.

	Glad to hear Lauren's doing better!

	As for foods - at 1 year, the pedi said Emily could eat 
	anything we eat, except "choking hazards" such as nuts
	and popcorn.

	Karen

Okay, folks, I really need advice and support.  Here's the scoop:

Noelle (now 2 1/2) has been on-and-off constipated since July.  I 
thought we were getting stabilized, but now we've been having trouble
since Thanksgiving.  Here's the history (apologies in advance
for the length).  In July, my nanny told me about one episode
where Noelle had a very hard time with a bowel movement --
she was finally successful but she was very agitated preceding
the process and cried *very* hard when she finally passed it.

In August, I took her on vacation to see my parents.  Probably because of 
travel upsetting her system and an over-abundance of bananas, she became 
constipated.  After an episode very much like the one my nanny
had described, she finally had a painful bowel movement.   
I bought jars of baby prunes and resolved that she would have one jar
of "prune pudding" a day.  Things seemed okay for a short time.
Then we had our next episode -- the nanny noticed that Noelle hadn't
gone for ~4 days and Noelle was complaining that her tummy hurt.  I
called the pedi and he recommended glycerine suppositories.  They
worked, but Noelle was very upset with the whole process.  We
had to use a glycerine suppository one more time and I resolved not
to do that again -- Noelle was fighting/crying for 20 minutes.
It feels like child abuse.

I talked to the doctor again and he explained that not all
children have a daily bowel movement.  I explained that I'm
not concerned about frequency, but I am concerned that it's
very painful for her and it appears that she might be holding
it in because she's afraid to go.  He explained the vicious
cycle that some kids get into and that sounds like what
we've got.  She holds it in and the longer it stays in,
the more the intestines draw water out of it making it harder
to pass.  He recommended the use of mineral oil which is a laxative.

We bought the mineral oil which has warnings all over it about
how it should never be taken by a child under age 6 and how overuse
of laxatives can cause a dependence on them.  I called the pedi
again and spoke to a nurse who double-checked the dosage
and reassured me about its use.  This particular nurse had a child who 
had gotten into the same vicious cycle and I think her son was on 
mineral oil for 4 months.  I still felt somewhat uneasy about its use, 
but I was ready to try it.

Then my husband came home, read the label, and became very
concerned.  He wanted to rely more on diet.  So we pushed
water and juice and prunes and fruits and vegetables.  We
were doing pretty well (maybe resorting to 1 tsp. of mineral
oil about once every 3 weeks) when Thanksgiving hit.  Even though
Noelle eats "prune pudding", bran cereal, and plenty of fruits
& veggies, she still gets very constipated.  She now cries
anytime she gets the urge to move her bowels because she's
anticipating the pain.  

Last night, Noelle had 3 painful movements over a period of
about 2 hours.  Each one was preceded by her getting
anxious and running around - sometimes into my arms sometimes
away from me, but clearly uncomfortable and inconsolable.
As she passed each movement, she cried hard.  We clearly need
to change what we're doing...

Has anybody else had this kind of trouble with their toddler?
Has anybody else gone the mineral oil route where their toddler
took it every day?  How long was the child on mineral oil?
How old are they now, and do they still have trouble?  

Thanks in advance...

- Deb B.

    Deb,
    
    I had a similar problem with Nathan when he was that age.  He
    would go 4 or 5 days without a bowel movement and then on the
    day that he did have one he would spend the day on my lap in
    the rocking chair in pain and crying.  It was really heartbreaking.
    We did not go the mineral oil route.  We tried the prunes and 
    raisins and he would have diarrhea.  Basically, we just waited
    it out.  So, he would go back and forth from constipation to
    diarrhea.  
    
    It lasted for a few months.  He is 7 now and has a problem
    only about once or twice a year - which I think is pretty normal.
    
    Sorry, I couldn't be more help, just wanted to let you know that 
    you are not going through this alone.
    
    Pam

    We too had a constipation problem with one of our kids.
    We found that if she did not eat enough vegetables....ruffage...
    she would have very hard poops.  As long as she eats a good
    diet with lots of veggies, she's fine.  And we have not had the
    problem for several years.  Hard to know if she's grown out of
    it or just has a balanced diet.  She certainly still remembers
    the baseball bats she was trying to pass.
    bob

    Deb,
    
    We had the same problem with our son this summer. The doctor put him on
    two-three spoonfuls of Haley's MO (flavored mineral oil), which we only
    just phased out about a month ago. She also recommended a child
    therapist who specializes in these issues. It's a really serious
    problem and has to be nipped in the bud, or it can go on for years.
    
    The therapist is in Westford, Mass. and I'll send her name if you want.
    She's a miracle worker, and Jake just loved her--still wants to go back
    to see her. We only had about four visits.
    
    You're doing the right thing in feeding her lots of high-fiber foods.
    One trick is to cut the child's apple juice with prune juice. We still
    do this for Jake and will continue doing it for a while. As long as
    they don't see what you're doing and you use a sippy cup, you can
    probably get away with it. I also bake muffins for Jake--I always use a
    cup of unprocessed bran and some kind of fruit or veggie, like squash,
    blueberries, or zuchinni. Cracklin' Bran is a sweet bran cereal some
    kids like to munch on for snacks.
    
    I know how troubling this is, but try not to let her see how it upsets
    you. That was some of the advice I got from the therapist. 
    
    Good luck,
    Andrea

    One other thing.  Make sure she is drinking enough water or other
    liquids.  All the fiber in the world won't help if there isn't any
    liquid for it to absorb.  Bran, etc without enough water can make great
    "cement" in thhe intestinal tract.
    
    meg

My 2 year old daughter Erin has a similar problem to that described a 
few replies back with fear of moving her bowels.  About two and a half
months ago, she developed a rash at her rectum that made it painful to
move her bowels.  It took a several weeks to clear the rash and during
this time she became tense whenever she had the urge and would hold it
in.  It got to the point that she would stiffen her body and shake, grit
her teeth and eventually scream.  She had never been constipated, but
after a period like this she was.  We had to give her milk of magnesia
for three days, gradually upping the dose each time, to get her to have
the first bowel movement.  She has been having a teaspoon of Senakot
granule laxative every night and usually has a runny bowel movement in
the morning.  We've been doing this for two months so that she is not 
able to hold the bowel movement and to try to get her over the negative 
associations.  She still gets upset when she has one, she will cry or
whine and hold my hand, but she usually isn't tensing up any more.  

I'm interested that several people are using mineral oil.  Would this be
mostly just to loosen the stools?  Erin actually needs to have it beyond
her control.  Maybe the next step will be to go to something less drastic
like this.  Her diet is not bad for a toddler, she eats lots of fruits but 
few veggies, and wheat bread.  I don't think she'd have a physical problem 
if it weren't for the psychological issues.

Jackie

    My son is 5.5 and has had a problem with constipation since he was
    about 3 yrs. old.  We've been to the pedi, pediatric gastroenterologist
    (sp?) and to counseling.  If we can get him to poop once a week we
    figure we've made progress.  It's so painful for him but he holds it in
    until the absolute last second.
    
    Anyway, we have been giving him mineral oil but his nutritionist (he's
    diabetic) said that mineral oil really negates alot of essential
    vitamins and minerals.  So, she's given me the name of two products
    which need to be prescription only.  I *think* one of them is the
    granular product you mentioned in the previous note.  The other is pill
    form.  I need to call his pedi and see if he'll prescribe them for my
    son.
    
    So, mineral oil is great for temporary use but if you need to use
    something on a longer basis, I'd stick with the granular stuff.
    
    Good luck!  It's not at ALL fun...
    
    Linda

    Well you've got alot of good recommendations here, the only one I could
    add is to possibly relax/change your "no juice in a bottle" rule until this
    resolves itself.  And, you don't really have to switch one 'problem'
    for another if you're really too far past the bottle removal stage.
    You might keep trying different kinds of cups 'til you find one that she 
    can manage to get a lot of liquids from. After MANY trys, we finally
    settled on a particular brand of 'straw cup'....It comes with a clear piece 
    of plastic tubing (vs. a straw) that fits so tightly in the cup lid that you 
    can carry the cup around by the straw. I'll check the brand if you like. 
    Benefits: softer on my kids' mouths so they like to drink from it (my oldest 
    kid was VERY texture sensitive), and  no spills! Just a thought on how you 
    might help her increase her juice/water intake!

    Can you relate her episodes to anything specific that she is
    eating?
    
    My daughter gets the same way when she eats yoghurt for example.  Even
    1 spoon of yoghurt is enough.  She tends to be lactose intolerant and
    often suffers if she eats too much cheese or drinks too much milk, too.
    
    Diana

I just wanted to put in an update to .44

After being on laxatives for over two months, Erin has "graduated" to prunes
and is doing pretty well.  She still has an uncomfortable look on her face
and will stand straight as a board when she has a bowel movement, but she
isn't holding them in anymore.

We are giving her 2-3 of the "orange essence" flavored prunes with dinner
every night and she actually likes them.  Hated prune juice even mixed with
apple.  Doctor said to keep prunes as part of her diet.

It's such a relief to hopefully have the nightly force feedings behind us,
I am keeping my fingers crossed that she doesn't relapse.

Jackie

update from .39

I finally bit the bullet and Noelle is taking a tablespoon of
mineral oil daily.  Mineral oil "bulks up" the stool making
you pass it quicker (cuz your bowel is full sooner) and also
provides lubrication so you pass it easier.  Noelle is a
different little girl now.  She's *so* amazingly cheerful
almost all the time.  She's also quite surprised that 
movements are so easy.

I feel a lot like Jackie in .44 whose daughter needed
to have the movements beyond her control in order to
get over the negative associations.  Before, Noelle
would tell us she was afraid to poop.  Now she'll actually
tell us that she needs to and that she wants to use the
potty chair.  (Whoopee!!!)

It's been 1 week since we started this regime and I'm
already wondering when we can try to control this via
diet.  I'll have to check with the doc on that one...
I certainly don't want to rush things, but I am *really*
nervous about having her on laxatives.

    I have a few questions on this wonderful constipation issue that maybe
    someone could help with.  Kyle (almost 17 month) has had a constipation
    problem for about 4 months now.  (note .11 describes almost exactly
    what we're going through).  He eats 2-3 jars of fruits and/or veggies
    every day (the ones recommended like peaches, pears, prunes, apricots. 
    for veggies he eats mostly the mixed veggies.)  We stay away from
    bananas, applesauce, carrots.  He has 3 meals a day, each bowl of
    fruit/veggie is mixed with about 2-3 tbls of Gerber oatmeal cereal
    wetted down with apple juice. Kyle's not big on people food yet and his
    diet basically consists of baby food still.  He also drinks 28-35 oz of
    whole milk a day.  He does like crackers and will eat 2 or 3 during a
    day (graham, saltine, ritz, peanut butter).  Another favorite of his is
    Resee's cereal, he'll have a good handful or two of those a day.

    What we've done so far is add a tsp of kayro syrup to each bottle, one
    bottle a day also has a tsp of Dicto Syrup (same a Colace Syrup).  One
    bottle a day also is a mix of 5 oz milk with 3 oz prune juice (sounds
    awful but it's the only way we've been able to get the juice in him).
    We try to get him to drink juice or water but if he gets 1 oz a day
    that's a lot, he's not big on either.  We use suppositories when it
    seems absolutely necessary but try to avoid them.

    His basic problem is that he's holding it in.  He'll strain and
    struggle at least once an hour, lately it's more more like 2-3 times an
    hour.  If he does manage to go, which is about once every 3 or 4 days,
    it's hard and I don't think he's getting himself all cleaned out so we
    continue with the straining and struggling for another few days until
    he just can't hold it any more.  He appears to do his best to not go
    when he gets the urge.  Crosses his legs and all!

    Some of the question I have are:

    Is it possible the the oatmeal cereal could be contributing to this? 
    Should we just cut that out completely?  Maybe switch to rice or
    barley?

    And has anyone tried mushing their own baby food to help this problem?
    Would canned pears or peaches in a blender be better for this than the
    baby food jars?  Or fresh fruits? (I'm guessing not but thought I'd ask)

    How about the Resee's cereal and peanut butter crackers, is peanut
    butter constipating?

    And since we're not having much luck with the kayro syrup, I'm going to
    check with the doctor on some of the other things mentioned in here
    (Agarol, Malt Supex, Kondremul, Senakot and Haley's).  Does anyone have
    any others to add to this list?  It looks like diet at this point isn't
    going to fix the problem.  What I believe we need is something to force
    him to go that he can't control as others have mentioned.  

    I keep thinking that bran items would help if he drank a lot of water
    but without the water intake I think we would be just adding to the
    problem, correct?

    Any other suggestions would be appreciated!
    Jean
    

	Personally, for the fruit, I'd try small cut-up pieces of
	fresh fruit.  That way, all of the fiber and nutrients would
	be retained.  Andrew loves blueberries - I just wash them, pick
	through them for stems, and place a few at a time on his tray.

	He's also eaten honey-dew melon and canteloupe, along with 
	slices of ripe peach or nectarine.

	Rice is binding, so I wouldn't switch to rice from oatmeal.

	Also, you could make him oat bran cereal, which is similar to
	cream of wheat.  It's quick to make in the microwave, just let
	it cool thoroughly before serving.

	Good luck!

	Karen

>>    His basic problem is that he's holding it in.  He'll strain and
>>    struggle at least once an hour, lately it's more more like 2-3 times an
>>    hour.  If he does manage to go, which is about once every 3 or 4 days,
>>    it's hard and I don't think he's getting himself all cleaned out so we
>>    continue with the straining and struggling for another few days until
>>    he just can't hold it any more.  He appears to do his best to not go
>>    when he gets the urge.  Crosses his legs and all!

This doesn't sound normal to me (but maybe I've just been lucky enough not
to have experienced it with my own kids!).  Have you discussed this with his
doctor?  And could there be something making him reluctant to go?  One of my
sons insisted on a diaper for nearly a year (in fact, it might have been
even longer than that!) before he would "do poops", after he was using the
potty or toilet for all peeing.  (But your son is young enough that he's
still wearing diapers all the time, right?)  I've also seen kids who insist
on privacy for this activity (hiding behind or under furniture, etc.).

						cheryl

    Jean,
    
    Agarol is *much* more affordable than Malt suprax and works within 
    6-8 hours.  Shannon used to get it daily (Drs orders) and now asks for
    it maybe once a month when she feels unconfortable.
    
    I would second the advice about fresh fruits, canned peaches do not have
    the fiber (or vitamins) that fresh have.
    We find grapes (cut once or twice for Courtney) work wonders!
    
    The more suppositories or enemas you have to give, the more the trauma
    he will suffer, which may prolong his holding back behavior.
    
    been there,
    Beth 

    I think the barley cereal is a good idea.  Another thing you
    might try are sweet potatoes or yams.  I bake one for my son
    every night.  They are sweet (no need to add butter), moist and 
    loaded with fiber.  If you decide to try them, wrap them in
    foil and place them in a baking dish - sometimes the juice from
    them leaks out and can create quite a mess in the oven.
    
    Terry

You could try giving him water, but it doesn't seem to me that his diet is
the problem.  Sounds behavioral or even medical.  I'd ask his doctor.

Lori

    Thanks for all the suggestions!  We saw the doctor yesterday and he has
    started Kyle on Senakot which will hopefully stimulate things enough
    that he won't be able to hold it in.  Dr said to start off with 1/4 tsp
    but may have to increase if needed.  We'll also keep up the tsp of
    Kayro in each bottle.

    Dr checked out his very red/sore bottom which as it turns out he has a
    couple small rips that certainly aren't helping things.  Hopefully with
    a few warm baths a day these will heal themselves in a week or so.  

    Fortunately, this kid like prunes and has been having some mixed in with
    all of his meals.  He does great with all baby food fruits but I wish
    we could get him more into the fresh fruits.  He had a ball last night
    feeding blueberries to his father and I, wouldn't get one anywhere near
    his own mouth though.  

    Jean
    

    
    You may want to be careful with blueberries.  I always thought that
    they are used for diarrhea not constipation.  They definitely
    constipate my kids if they eat too many.  In Sweden on the jar of
    baby blueberries one of the recommended uses is for diarrhea.
    
    Elizabeth

    My daughter gets consipated if she has too much baby cereal....we used
    to give it to her a couple times a day, now only once........If I
    remember correctly you give it to your child quite often, and Oatmeal
    is definitely better than the rice if your child is constipated...Rice
    did a job on my daughter......Mary

    
    I thought that there was some magic about brown sugar and water to help
    loosen them up?  Certainly less messy than karo syrup!
    
    A friend of mine ended up getting mineral oil (flavored) for her
    daughter, by Drs advice, and it's worked wonders!  There was also some
    question, when she was straining, if she were usign the muscles
    correctly ... that when she was straining, she was actually tightening
    her bottom harder, instead of "pushing out".  It should be fairly
    obvious if you can ever "catch him in the act" ... not sure how you
    teach the "right" way ..!
    
    Try some baking soda in his tub to help the fissures heal, and to
    rebalance the PH on his skin ... it's very soothing.  (1/3 to 1/2 box
    soda, to ~5" of water) 
    
    And lastly ... when my boys got diaper rash or just "sore" looking, the
    thing that **ALWAYS** worked in a day or less, was to use an antibiotic
    cream on them ... something like neosporin or bacitracin ... it's just
    unbelievable how well it worked! (except for yeast infections of
    course, that needed the Lotrimin AF).  Just apply a thin film,
    especially before bedtime ... it protected and healed a bazillion times
    better than any diaper ointment ever worked. (for us anyway!)
    
    Good Luck!

Shruthi (almost 3) is primarily on a veggie-diet.  She has not had serious
problems with her poops...she usually is very regular !  But this winter, she
has several episodes of severe constipation.  The first couple of them occurred
when she was on antibiotics for an ear infection - but lately, this has happened
again  when she is not on any medication.  She strains and strains...screams for
a few minutes when this is going on....calms down for a while...then starts the
straining and screaming again!  She is inconsolable...starts crying...she's
always saying " I want you mommy" even though I am right next to her...this
continues for almost 20-30 minutes!  The change in her when she actually poops
is amazing..this crying kid is suddenly smiling and triumphant - " I did the
full poops, Mommy!".

When she is going through this, I feel really helpless!  The only thing I could
think of is to change her diet subtly to help her with this!  She does eat a lot
of veggies( she can finish an entire helping of peas, carrots, broccoli, beans
and cauliflower at one sitting!), she has high fibre cereal for her breakfast. 
The things that could be termed bad are that she does not drink any water...it's
always juice(orange juice) and she eats a fair amount of cheese and rice.  I was
thinking of cutting back on the cheese/rice, hopefully getting her to drink some
water.  Anything else that I could do? 

Also, several notes discussed mineral oil.  Could I just use this when she is
terribly constipated?  How long would this take to work?

--Chaya.

    Increasing her liquids when she's on meds might help, as would raisins.
    

    Sounds exactly like Angline.  But she doesn't get any cheese
    or rice because of it.   Also we faithfully avoid the B.R.A.T.
    diet...bananas, rice, apple, toast.
    
    Pear juice works great with Angeline, and a jar of the Gerber
    Apricots does wonders to keep her loose.
    
    At the time of her most serious incidents, I've used the infant
    suppositories to help her pass the impaction.   I can't stand 
    to watch her screaming and pushing only to pass a pea size poop
    that's as hard as a rock.
    
    If water is not pleasant for your child,  try mixing in some juice
    for taste.   I was giving Angeline three parts water to one part
    juice when she was smaller.   Now I've found a good bottle or two
    of undiluted pear juice will help soften things up.
    
    							cj *->

Oh boy, do I empathize!

Noelle is 3 1/2 and we *still* have problems.  Her diet is
also very high in fiber.  BTW, orange juice is highly
recommended (at least by my pediatrician) for this condition.
If she won't drink water but will drink juice, push the juice.
Unfortunately for us, Noelle has a very strong preference for
milk and it's hard to get her to drink *anything* else.

Mineral oil will likely help.  It generally takes 6-8
hours to have an effect.  But *please* contact your
doctor's office before administering.  It can be habit
forming.  You may find that cutting back (or cutting out) the 
cheese and rice is helpful.  This is difficult in our house
because I have so many recipes using one or both and we
all love both...

We have also (on *very* rare occasions) used glycerine
suppositories.  They work much quicker -- generally 
15 minutes to 1 hour.  We only do this when Noelle
hasn't gone for many days and is *very* uncomfortable.

And yes, the personality change is amazing to witness.  

A heartfelt Good luck!

- Deb B.

Our 3 year old has had bad constipation this week, to the point that he
refused to try to poop because of the pain.

The mineral oil - doctor said to use this raspberry flavored mineral oil
  (Axxxxx - can't recall the name).  Found it *behind* the pharmacy counter
  at CVS.  Couldn't remember the dosage the doctor suggested, so followed the
  instructions on the bottle, which said 1/2 teaspoon.  When we called a
  doctor the next day to say that he was in *great* abdominal pain, the new
  doctor said, oh, no, use 1-2 TABLESPOONS full!  Said it would take a *long*
  time to work, though, and I can't remember if she said 12 or 24 hours.

Glycerin suppository is what we then used.  It worked *great*.  We held his
  cheeks together for 5 minutes (as the doctor told us; the instructions said
  30 minutes!).  It worked like a charm for the first elimination, then we
  did it again the next day, and now he's fine.

What a difference in attitude this child has now!!  *So* much better!!!

We did give some prune juice, too, the evening we gave him the suppository.
I think we overdid it with that, as he got a little diarrhea after that.

FYI,
       Carol

    
    
    Carol,
    
    It's Agarol, we found it a lifesaver when Shannon was younger, she
    occassionaly uses it still.
    
    

    I found one problem with prune juice or prunes.  If Angeline
    was already constipated, the prunes/juice stimulated her bowel
    to do the pushing, but that made it worse because she was pushing
    hard on the impaction.  It was horrifying.
    
    Once she's passed the problem, then prunes help keep her loose
    and a little more regular.  But the body/bowel does eventually
    learn to accomodate prunes and they become less stimulating.
    
    After a few severe episodes, I learned to be pro-active and
    prevent the impaction with previously discussed methods.  
    
    							cj *->

    I looked and couldn't find a related topic.  Any and all advice,
    suggestions, and stories are welcome.
    
    My daughter is 16 months old.  For about the past two months she has
    been withholding her bowel movements.  It all started about the time
    she made the transition from baby food to solids.  She had a few hard
    b/m's and now I guess she is afraid to go.  She was going 1-3 times a
    day before this started.  She now will hold them for 2-3 days.  Its
    horrible to see her go through this.  When she finally does have a bowel
    movement, she shakes, cries, sweats.  It breaks my heart.  I called
    the Dr. about a month ago, the nurse said to increase her ruffage.  I
    did this, along with increasing her fluids.   She's not a big juice
    drinker, basically just water and milk.  The only vegetable she will
    eat are carrots and potatoes.  She does eat assorted fruits and I get
    as much as possible in her.  I'm constantly offering her a different
    fruit.  She's not a big eater in general.  I called the Dr. again last
    week, they said give her a teaspoon of mineral oil in the evening then
    one in the morning, then come see the Dr. at 10:30.  She ended up
    having a b/m but it still hurt and was still hard as rocks.  We went to
    the Dr., he said that she was full and that I had to give her half of
    an adult suppository when we got home and half that night to empty her.
    I did this and she had a b/m both times.  The 1st one was hard, the
    second was soft but she still acted like it really hurt.  He also said
    I had to limit her milk consumption to no more than 18 ounces daily.
    And offer her lots of fruit and fluids.  The next day was Friday and
    she still had not had a b/m by 7 PM that night so I gave her another
    suppository.  She went and it was soft but she really acted like it
    hurt again.  Now it is Sunday and she hasn't had a b/m since Friday
    night.  She is getting tons of fruit and fruit juice.  I also made bran
    muffins and she's been eating them.  I'll be calling the Dr. again
    tomorrow if she doesn't go by then.  I'm at my wits end.  I don't know
    what else I can do to help her.  Sorry to be so winded.  Thanks.
    
    Kathy
     

    See if you can get her to drink prune juice. That's what we used to use
    when our toddlers got bound up, and it seemed to help. Ask your doctor
    about using something like metamucil to provide roughage.

    I've found Angeline responds really well to babyfood apricots.
    Or even apricot juice.  At almost 2 1/2 years old, we still have
    this constant battle with keeping her bm soft.
    
    Some things I've learned with her - stay away from bananas and
    doughnuts.  In fact, we have limitted doses of the brat diet:
    
    Banana
    Rice
    Applesauce
    Toast
    
    We quotient the amount of cheese she has, and used low percentage
    of fat milk.
    
    Encourage her to eat raisins and grapes.
    
    Lots of water!   
    							cj *->
                                                              

Groan...  I'm still struggling with this problem with my 4 1/2 year old.
My sympathies.  My pedi recommends using mineral oil which acts
as both a stool softener and a laxative.  You want to try to find
the doseage that forces her to go every day without getting any
leaking of oil from the anus.  After she forgets about the pain and
is going regularly, you can work on getting her off of the mineral oil.  

CJ, I'll have to try the apricot juice... I was even thinking of
making my own "prune pudding" by using my food processor and adding
some kind of juice to get a reasonable consistency.  Noelle won't eat
dried prunes, but she will eat baby prunes.

BTW, the mineral oil can take up to 3 days before it has an effect.
This can make the right doseage very difficult to determine if you
try to react too quickly.

Best of luck.  My heart goes to you and your daughter...

- Deb B.

While the child is in diapers, leakage is less troublesome.

My daughter started at aged 2 1/2 on  3 tablespoons per day 
mixed with Ben and Jerry's ice cream. At the same time, she 
got a sticker on a calendar for every movement. (The mineral
oil doesn't move the hard stuff that is already there so there
may be another enema in the picture and I know how aweful that 
is. That's why you want to start regular mineral oil ASAP). After
a month, we reduced the dose some and then gradually. Right now,
at age 5 1/2, I give it to her when I see she is beginning to 
have a problem. In fact, she does best if I give  her 1 tablespoon
a week. The pedi says that dose in no way compromises food intake.

The problem in some kids is that the rectum has a curve at the end
and pushing is harder. That's why they need the lubricant.

My daughter's constipation began when she was on formula (< 1 year old).
I was told to do prune juice, dark caro syrup, fruits etc. I did and it
masked the problem. Mineral oil adn ice cream (or yogurt or applesauce..
but preferably ice cream for the fat content).

I know what you are going through. It is aweful but it will work out. Call
if you need a pointer to another doc. My pedi missed this until I pushed for
x rays and he saw a full bowel.

another thing...I was fooled by my daughter's passing small stools. 
I figured as long as she passed something she was ok .

WRONG

They can pass something small, and especially something loose, around the
impaction. In fact, the whole sitation was actually diagnosed by a pedi 
(and a mom) friend of mine who babysat while I was travelling for work. She
noticed teh quantity and quality of what was being passed. That was what 
convinced me to get more aggressive wiht my pedi who then sent me to a
gastroenterologist (Winter at MGH) who prescribed the ice cream and mineral
oil.

    
    Thanks for all the replies and previous entries.  I took her to the Dr.
    on 1/24.  Dr. said her bowel was full.  He said I had to cut back
    on her milk intake (18 ounces daily maximum) and increase fruit.  But
    first we had to empty her bowel by giving her half of an adult
    suppository (DUCOLUX).  I gave her half when we got home and half that
    night before bed.  Worked within 30 minutes each time.  That was
    Friday.  Then Saturday nothing.  Sunday she had a b/m and has had at
    least one every day since.  Its been a week.  I feel like its a full
    time job constantly offering fruit, water, and juice.  We've been
    faithful with the 18 oz of milk.  She actually doesn't even drink the
    whole 18 oz now.  She drinks alot of OJ, so I've been buying the OJ
    with calcium.  She still doesn't eat much veggies.  Every day she has
    some apple, pear, grapes, cantelope, and watermelon.  I also started
    making mini bran muffins, which she likes.  Is she too young for
    raisins?  I've always thought of them as a choking hazard.  I peel and
    quarter her grapes.  She won't touch prune juice.  What a weight lifted
    off my shoulder, but I know I have to stay on my guard and keep on top
    of it always.   I can't believe how long this problem can go on.
    
    I was doing the same as a previous noter in regards to only milk goes
    in a bottle and everything else goes in a cup.  I changed that last
    week and now she will drink juice, where she wouldn't before.  She
    drinks it better from the bottle and I figure this is a bigger problem
    and I'll deal with the bottle issue later.  I have to tell her that I'm
    giving her juice in the bottle because if I just hand it to her, she's
    expecting to taste milk and gets mad.  Now when she asks for her
    bottle, I say do want oj in a bottle and she repeats oj.  Good luck to
    all, its heartbreaking to watch.