Conference moira::parenting

    Well, I had a similar issue with my son last year (kindergarten) and it
    wasn't school he was trying to avoid as I found out much later.  He
    would just tell me he didn't want to go to school anymore and I was
    always able to reason with him and get him there.
    
    I suggest working with her tonight to find out what the real reason is. 
    My son did not want to go to the after-school care we had chosen for
    him.  Once we switched care-givers, he was extremely willing to go. 
    Now that mom or dad are home when they get home from school each day,
    we have no trouble getting them to go.
    
    -sandy
    

    
    
    	I have a very vivid memory of while being in school, telling my
    mother that I was very tired and wished I didn't have to go to school
    that day, (after school job, 3X varsity, school congress, etc) granted,
    I was in high school but it still never occured to me that I wouldn't
    be *made* to go to school. I was merely stating how I felt, I certainly
    was not expecting action other than "tough luck, hop to it".
    
    	Well low and behold, my mother heard me and basically said, ok, you
    don't have to go to school.
    
    	I felt so heard, so powerful, so guilty that I never said it again
    but I always knew that if I *wanted to* I could stay home from school.
    
    	I don't know, it's easy for me to say my kids aren't in a school
    situation yet, but maybe sometimes, the kids (like us) just need a
    break from the routine. An indulgence of letting them stay home once in
    while (provided it does not become a pattern and that there is no
    underlying problem) doesn't seem too harmful to me.
    
    			Wendy

This is a somewhat common problem in NE schools this 
time of year. You have kids whose timing is off. They
had a vacation at Xmas, snow days, February vacation,
more snow days, and lo and behold they have a full
week or so of school and they're clock says gee I
ought to have a day off. Most kids and parents simply
deal with it and some may well need to take a
"mental health" break. I think we all recognize the need
as long as it doesn't become a pattern. Even the schools
understand it although to condone it in policy or
practice isn't practical. 

I wouldn't expect any parent to drag their child to 
school kicking and screaming. School should be a place
children want to go. If there is an issue with the
school address it quickly with administration. If you
have difficulty getting at the issue I would suggest
you ask a school counselor to talk to the child. 

A friend of my husband's had this problem with her
8 year old.  She solved it in a fairly clever way.

He can stay home anytime he wants, but it is not
a play day.  They do chores all day.  She put him
to work washing windows, then vacuuming, then he
washed the car.  Worked until the school buses
dropped the kids off....


Pat

    Yeah, mine will say they are too sick for school, and I say then go
    back to bed because sick people need to stay in bed all day.  Soon they
    feel much better and are on their way to school.
    
    Works for the adults, too, because somedays I really look forward to
    just staying in bed.  If I knew I had to do chores, I would probably go
    to school.
    
    -sandy
    

    
    Chris has gone through this a few times, and always because of "some
    other" reason.  Once was (as someone else stated) because of the after
    school program we had picked for him.  Once we changed that, that got
    lots better, and he enjoyed going to school again.
    
    Another time, there was a kid in the playground who used to pick on him
    at lunch every day.  I wouldn't want to go either!!
    
    A few times he just needed "reminding" that he DOES have friends at
    school and that he does have fun etc etc.
    
    And there was even once or twice when he really was burnt out, but
    since I can't react that fast, we would pick a day "next week" where
    we'd all stay home and goof off or clean up or whatever wasn't
    "normal".  It helped him get through "today", eliminated the possibility
    that he was just trying to get out of a test or something, made him
    feel like he had SOME control, allowed me to make arrangements with
    work, and still allowed me to maintain control of the situation.
    
    And Jason figured this all out, and now when he's burnt out, he'll ask
    me "When can we have a day off?" .... meaning he just wants a day to
    stay home and do NOTHING.  Well, that's ok too.
    
    And yes, if they stay home sick, they sure better be acting like
    they're sick!  
    
    But I can't say that I'd take an unscheduled day off because my kid
    just didn't FEEL like going to school!  Tough!  I don't FEEL like going
    to work!
    

    
    Thanks for the responses.  I did talk to the counselor at school, and
    they suggested that it was not a serious problem yet, however it
    becomes a pattern too quickly. 
    
    She had said that the next time she feels this way, that I call the
    school, and she will bring my daughter into the office and calm her
    down until she is ready to go to class.  
    
    The counselor as well as her teacher has said that this is a common
    problem, and not to make too much a fuss over it yet. 
    
    So for now, I will simply take away t.v. for a day or 2, and watch to
    see when she decides to stress out my morning again.
    
    Thanks for the reply's
    
    David
    

>    So for now, I will simply take away t.v. for a day or 2, and watch to
>    see when she decides to stress out my morning again.

re: .7

I like the solution, but I have to question the punitive aspect of taking 
away the TV.  I doubt that she was trying to stress out your morning or 
that she was consciously being obstinate.  Is perhaps there some way you 
could make this positive? Like let her watch a little more tv is she goes 
even when she doesn't really feel like it?

re: .2, .6(though I may have misinterpreted .6)

I don't agree with letting a child that age stay home because they want to.  
I think the situation is much different for a high schooler or an adult than 
a 6 year old.  I think that there may be circumstances when it's appropriate 
for a physically well kid to stay home from school, but I think at 6 it 
shoudl be the parents' call, while at high school age it is the kid's call 
whether the parents like it or not.

Clay

    Clay,
    
    I'm curious why you think a 6 year old shouldn't be allowed a "day off"
    when it's okay for a teen or an adult??
    
    Everyone gets tired of the same thing day after day after day.  My kids
    are up early every morning, and don't ever have an opportunity to sleep
    in or just lay around.  During the week it's school.  On Sat. it's
    karate.  Sun morning they're w/ Dad, and he gets them up and ready to
    go to Mom's.  Geez, even I get Sat. morning.  
    
    If your feeling is that they're not "stressed out" enough to need a
    break, I heartily disagree.  Yah, they're only learning math or
    spelling or whatever, but for THEM, that's hard, and can be taxing. 
    And as I said in .6, they DO go the day that they want to stay home,
    but we may arrange a future date (MY choice) that we can stay home.
    
    Is this more of a "control" issue that you're speaking to?
    
    

                     <<< Note 711.10 by IVOSS1::WAHL_RO >>>
                       -< hone those detective skills? >-

re:                      <<< Note 711.0 by WMOIS::LEMIRE_D >>>
                     -< "I do not want to go to school!" >-

    
    David,

    It took us a while to figure this one out. (I was physically picking
    my son up and carrying him to the van) It was handwriting!  He's
    a little behind in fine motor skill development, so he wasn't *able*
    to do the work the teacher was asking him to do.  

    A phone call to the folks at Work/Family Directions (800-635-0606) and
    then his teacher was the solution.  I highly recommend using WFD
    the counselor was GREAT!

    Rochelle
    

    hi,
    
    Re.11 thanks for the number Rochelle, I will keep it on hand. 
    
    Re. 8 
    My daughter already watches more T.V. than I like, but I wonder if it
    is good to let her watch a little more, or to reward her for doing
    something that she Has to do.  School is a law, and she has to go.  i
    would hate for her to start expecting added bonuses because she is
    doing what she has to.  
    
    But perhaps there is another way to turn this into a positive. We
    talked last night when I got home, and the root of the problem seemed
    to be over tiredness, and that with my wife working nights, and me
    working days, the week is pretty hectic.  the only family time we have 
    is the weekends.  Kayla wanted to spend the day with her mother, as her
    younger brother gets to do before his afternoon class. 
    
    I do not agree with letting a 6 year old choose a day off when they
    feel stressed, at least not yet, but perhaps a 4 day weekend is in
    order for all of us.  Although with all the snow days, they have had
    quite a few 4 and 5 day weekends. 
    
    Thanks for the reply's.  This has become quite an interesting
    discussion.
    
    regard's
    
    David
    
    
    

    
    	I'm not sure that I was saying a 6 year old can choose the day they
    are off from school - hey, we work just like the rest of you and we
    don't have that kind of flexibilty either - but I think that a 6 year
    old's voice should be heard just as loudly as a high schooler's (or
    anyone else for that matter).
    
    	Someone suggested a "not now, but let's see what we could do for
    next week" approach that seems to work for me.
    
    	Sure, school is the law (so is working once you are an adult;-) but
    I think that empowering the child to express herself and to be heard
    and acknowledged is quite an education in itself (oh wouldn't this be a
    better world if we could all do that to each other?)
    
    				Wendy
    
    

>    I'm curious why you think a 6 year old shouldn't be allowed
>    a "day off" when it's okay for a teen or an adult??

Patty, I didn't say that, or at least I didn't intend to say that.

>I think that there may be circumstances when it's appropriate
>for a physically well kid to stay home from school, but I think 
>at 6 it shoudl [sic] be the parents' call

As I said, I may have misunderstood your note, and on re-reading it, I'm
sure I did, due to sloppy notes reading; the end of the screen was 

>me "When can we have a day off?" .... meaning he just wants 
>a day to stay home and do NOTHING.  Well, that's ok too.

And I didn't notice that there was more to your note; so I didn't understand
what "that's ok too" meant.  I wondered if "ok" meant the child got to stay
home that day.  Now that I've read the full note, I think we are in very
close agreement.  

It's partially a control issue.  But it's also an issue that younger kids
don't have the life experience, perspective, or the set of values yet to
make a decision as to whether to stay home from school.  Teenagers and
adults do, or should.  

What I heard from the incident relatedy by Wendy in .2 was that her mother 
not only empowered her in the sense of hearing and acknowledging her, but she 
also empowered her to make the decision as to whether or not to go to school 
today."  That form of empowerment may be appropriate for teenagers (who have 
that power, whether we want to admit it or not) appropriate for teenagers.  
Not only are you heard and acknowledged, YOU make the decision whether or 
not to go to school today.  That's what I think is inappropriatge for 6 year 
olds.

Clay

    Clay,
    
    Yes ... I agree.  The "today" is a bigger issue with ages.  And you can
    (or hopefully should be able to!) leave a teen to themselves for the
    day, as opposed to having to rearrange life to conform to the sudden
    impulses of a child (not okay).
    
    Thanks for the clarification!
    
    Patty

    Hi Patty, Clay and Wendy (And all others)
    
    Children should definetly be heard, and encouraged to express
    themselves.  Good feelings, bad feelings, about home and school.
    But at 6 years old, it is so easy for them to become habit forming.
    I can't help but worry that if kayla comes to me and says "Daddy how
    about a day off", and I say lets plan one seen, will I be starting her
    off on a bad habit.  Will she start to expect days off when she is
    feeling lazy, or just doesn't want to go. 
    
    As a father, I have to be the one to teach my child about
    responsibility, Not spelling however because I can't.  But I have to
    show my child that there are things in life that we must do no matter
    how we feel.  Will she start to think that she can blow off homework
    because she needs a day off.  
    
    The same can apply to a job when she is in her teens.  I need for them
    to know that they are responsible to be in class, and be good, and
    listen and learn.  But at the same time I need for them to know that if
    there is a problem, no matter what, that if they teel me, I will do my
    best to help them through it.  
    
    That is where the conflict comes in, that is so confusing.  If they
    have a problem at school, and they do not want to go, we as parents
    have 2 obligations.  We have to get our children to school.  We have
    top make them understand how important it is.  But as parents, we all
    want our children to be happy, to save them from any embarrasment, 
    and to be there when they are sad.  Even if it means that they get away
    with not going every now and then.  I guess.  Nobody said parenting was
    easy did they?
    
    Regards
    
    David
    

    Just had to put in my $.02......
    
    Actually, I think many teenagers (high-schoolers) still are not 
    responsible enough to decide whether they should go to school or
    not.  At that age, peer pressures take on disproportionate 
    importance.  I think many teenagers just don't have an appropriate
    perspective on life to decide for themselves whether or not they
    are going to school on any given day. 
    
    When I was in elementary school, I had some years where I just hated going
    to school, and other years when I cried if there was a snow day because
    I loved school so much.  For me, it all boiled down to one thing --
    the quality of the teacher.  Unfortunately, my parents couldn't let
    me stay home one whole year because I hated my teacher that year!
    As a matter of fact, they wouldn't even CONSIDER letting me stay
    home for any reason except serious illness.  With one exception....  
    One morning I tried to tell my mother I was sick.  I'm quite sure
    she knew I was just trying to get away with staying home.  And 
    for some reason, she said OK.  I spent the day shopping with her.  
    She bought me necklace with a ceramic, psycadellic pendent on it.
    (Hey, this was the '70's.)  To this day I have that necklace stored
    in a safe place in my bureau.  I have carefully brought it with me
    every time I've moved, to college, to my own apartment, to our first
    home.....  Why?  Because it symbolizes one of the happiest days of
    my life, when I felt very special and connected with my mother.  
    
    If she had let me do this regularly, that would have been a different
    story.  But once in a blue moon, I think a day-off for parent and 
    child can be very special.  I like the idea that some people have
    suggested of allowing each child one day-off per school year.  That
    keeps in under control, and gives the child something to look forward
    to when the stress gets to be too much.
         
    Jane

    Please  Please  Please  Please  Please  Please don't automatically
    punish and blame the child.  Remember this child is only 6 years old. 
    We spend almost all of my son's second grade blaming him and punishing
    him for his behavior when finally towards the end of the year I began
    to poll other parents about their child in the same class.  I didn't
    get good news from ANY of the parents with regard to the teacher.  It
    turned out to be a definite "AWFUL" teacher situation.  We had even
    been in constant communications with the teacher all year and never
    sensed anything about her, at least not until I put all the pieces
    together from the other parents.
    
    As a result of us automatically blaming the child we now have undergone
    almost a whole year of undoing the emotional distruction this teacher did
    to my child and others.  I strongly recommend talking to other parents
    who have children in the same class and see how they are acting.  I
    think more than anything that tells the tale if it's "just your child"
    or not.
    
    I don't think most first graders get "burned out", they're usually
    extremely energetic and excited to be going to "big school".  If it
    does turn out to be a single child problem then I suggest the
    punishment more appropriately match the behavior.  If the child doesn't
    want to go to school, then maybe activities associated with school
    should be discontinued.  Example, if you don't go to school today, then
    I guess you can't go to the school fair, or whatever activity might be
    coming up.

    Hi,
    
    Re.18.  the only reason I would consider a small punishment for my
    daughter in this case, is because of the fit she took.  She has had a
    couple of fits that included kicking and screaming since she has been
    old enough to understand that its wrong, and I think a little less
    t.v., or some room time may reinforce that this kind of behavior for
    any reason is wrong, and a unacceptable way to release emotion in the
    house. 
    
    The teacher is actually one of the best I have seen.  We did get to
    know another couple from parents night, and they agree. She is the only 
    teacher that hugs each kid as they walk out of school to the bus line, 
    she is very attentive, and called us back during school hours to
    discuss the problem with kayla the other day.
    
    She was very suprized to hear that Kayla acted that way about school. 
    The teacher said that she was very popular, and always acted superbly,
    and that it was probably a desire to hang with mom more than anything.
    Plus while talking to my daughter the next day, she said that she got
    to spend some time just talking to her teacher, and doing work while
    the other kids were doing other things.
    
    I think rarely, a teacher will get to spend some one on one time with 
    a student for something like this.  Kayla has learned so much so far
    this year, and I have noticed a confidence big confidence boost in her
    so far this year.  The teacher is great, but I can imagine the
    frustration of what you went through with your sons.
    
    Take care,
    
    david
    

    Any thoughts on when it's reasonable to expect a child to understand
    how important quality education -- and thus "best effort" -- really are? I
    realize that, like many issues, "it all depends." We have a 7th grader
    whose approach to school frequently seems to casual to us. He's
    buckling down now that he's well into the school year, but he is
    sporatic in his approach to his studies. I realize too that this is a
    very up and down age for children and that the hormones are becoming
    more "active." Balancing all this is very confusing. We try daily to
    provide positive reinforcement and guide him by example, but too often
    it all results in the kind of dialogue that makes us all uncomfortable,
    if not downright upset.
    
    Thx,
    Ken	
    
    Ken

    
    re. .20
    
    I don't know from experience as a parent but when I was growing
    up, I was told over and over again that my only job was to do well
    in school. All my extra-curricular activities, including phone calls,
    would cease if my grades were to drop below a certain level. My parents 
    also mandated that all homeworks had to be done before TV viewing.
    My parents were relatively strict, but all the kids the breezed through 
    school and college because of the discipline. The prevailing message
    was school was first and everything else was second, there was no
    exception.
    
    Now, the implementation was easy for my parents since times were 
    different. I have been instilling the same ideal into my daughter, who
    is in 4th grade, since she was in kindergarten. I have explained to
    her that no matter how well she can accomplished in other areas,
    she still needs a good education in terms that she can understand:
    
    	- differentiate who is a real friend and who is a trickster
    
    	- to understand what the media is really saying (truth or lie)
    
    	- to manage her money and not worry about being cheated 
    
    	- to understand how the world works, to get what she wants
    
    	- to enjoy high tech toys, having the $ and the brains for them
    	
    	- to be able to go on vacation, buy nice clothes, etc
    
    	- to be able to hire other people to do things she does not
    	  like to do
    
    I try to talk to her as a friend who has gone thru similar things
    in life, not as an authority. My daughter now knows what are the
    ways to make $ and how to keep it.
    
    
    Eva                    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    I know when I was that age, it was never presented to me **HOW**
    important good grades would be, for the rest of my life.  I was TOLD,
    but never understood.  Yah, so, what's the big deal?  Who's going to
    care if I did well in English in 8th grade?!
    
    Perhaps if he has any idea what he might like to be, it could help to
    show him the requirements to be able to meet those goals.  If he wants
    to be a chemist, explain the importance of good math/science grades. 
    Explain how ALL of it ties together in deciding what schools he'll be
    able to get into, and how THAT has a definite impact on where he might
    be employed.
    
    I think I finally started to get a clue around 11th  grade, and by then
    it was too late.  It would've been EASY for me to do a LOT better - I
    just never understood how important it was (and to this day I regret
    it).
    
    Patty

    
    re. 20
    
    One more thing that may help is to get involved with his studies.
    Try to bring out his curiosity and show him where to find info.
    Find out what is being taught, show interest in it, bring up examples
    on how it applies to everyday life and challenge him. Find out his 
    interest, supplement it with magazines, museum and expo trips, hobby 
    kits, cultural vacations, etc. His interest does not have to be academic, 
    if he is interested in music, there are a lot of info about music and 
    intruments that are based on physics and electronics. Have interesting 
    magazines around the house, like National Geographics, Discover, Consumer
    Reports, they are fun to read and we can learn something from it. 
     
    Keep him busy with activities. When I was that age, I was too busy
    with sports, art projects, drama club, etc, to worry about my hormones.
    I found the opposite sex thing too boring, compared to all the
    excitement in extra-curricular activities.
    
    
    Eva  
    

    RE: .21 - .23 -- thanks for your thoughtful ideas. I have a feeling it
    will get worse befor it get's getter better, but then, who of us was
    any different? I'm starting to understand my own parents.
    Ken

    
    re .24
    
    I think it is extremely important to let a child know that you are
    there to HELP him or her to grow up, to become a functional part of 
    society, especially when you are "giving the medicine". He or she has 
    to know that you are just doing your job as a parent as best you know how.
    Sometimes it helps to discuss your dilemmas and problems as a parent
    with your child, since that makes you as human and vulnerable as he
    or she is. That helps to elevate their "standing" in your world. I
    think as kids grow up, parents become mentors, just like ones at work;
    the authoritative approach do not work anymore. 
    
    Good luck. Adolescence is very challenging and scary for both parents 
    and kids. I have 3 more cushy years before my daughter turns teen!!! 
    
    Eva
    

  I'm having a problem with my just turned 5 year old son.  For the last
several weeks he has been complaining about attending daycare.  He has been
in this center for 2.5 years.
  Each day when I ask him why he does not want to go, there is a different
reason.  He doesn't like to play with X.  He does not like the food. He would
rather stay home. etc.  Yet at pick up time he does NOT want to come home
either.  When I question his teacher she believes that he is enjoying the
day.  When we have our quiet time each night before bed he tells me all about
what he did, the day's project etc.
  Each time he complains about school I try to give him a solution.  For example
he said he did not want to play with Colin.  I told him to tell Colin that he
did not like that type of play.  If Colin continued he could play with someone
else.  The next evening I found him playing quite happily with Colin.
  This morning was the worst ever.  When I tried to leave him off he RAN out
of the classroom and outside the building.  I brought him back and explained
that it was a school day.  He ran away again.  This time his teacher and the
director distracted him and got him interested in something.  After dropping
off my daughter I checked in on him and everything seemed fine.
   I'm not sure what to do now.  I think he is just seeking more control over
his life.  What are some ways to give a 5 year old more control?  One of the
things that I think is bothering him is that he just turned 5.  He knows that
children who are 5 can start kindergarten.  Some of the kids at daycare go
to afternoon kindergarten.  He doesn't really understand why he can't go too.
He is also the oldest in the group of children who stay all day - though not
by much.
   Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated,

Elizabeth