Conference moira::parenting

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes to remain
anonymous at this time.  

   Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

****************************************************************

Hi,

With my first child, I had a lot of trouble breastfeeding.  I am looking
for suggestions and alternatives, to help me through this for our second
child (though I'm not pregnant yet, I hope to be).  I did love the
experience and would like to breastfeed again, for a longer period.

Breastfeeding was VERY painful, and my nipples never really got
toughened up.  For the first few minutes of every feeding, it hurt like
h*ll.  My son nursed frequently (every 2-4 hrs), partly because I think he
wasn't getting enough to eat.

When I tried to pump, I would only get a few ounces (1-2) - if that.
I never could feel the "let down" that so many women mention.
After 4 wks, we started supplementing with formula, and I stopped
totally at 4 months.

I am wondering what others have done to deal with these types of
problems?  All experiences and suggestions will be appreciated,

Thanks,
Wish_I_was_a_Cow!  ;')

I had trouble in the beginning, too.  It was painful, and I could see that
I was going to have problems with my nipples.  My son ate voraciously, nothing
gentle about him. 

What saved me was the help I got at the hospital.  They had a breastfeeding
specialist on site, and I was encouraged to get help (free!) from her even
after I had been released from the hospital.  She showed me how my baby
wasn't latching on properly, and how I had to help.  Once I had that down
(it took practice!) then I no longer had problems with pain.  The Bag Baum
I had bought went unused, and my nipples never did have to "toughen".

I encourage you to see a breastfeeding specialist.  If you don't have a local
hospital with someone to help, then try your local La Leche League.  They
may be able to help or to recommend someone who can.

Oh, and by the way, I never did pump well.  Although my breasts would 
"let down", I never leaked and apparently for whatever reason that caused that,
the milk never would pump well, either.  The only pump that worked for me
was a huge sucker (so to speak) that I had to rent.  I believe the name
is Medela.  When my spouse breastfed our second son, we found it much cheaper
through a local nursing specialist, and they also had a more portable type,
too.

BEST of luck!

     Carol 

One last thing:  when the baby is first born, your breasts don't produce much
fluid anyway.  Don't worry about production.  If the baby is latched on well,
then the baby's sucking will stimulate your milk production.  As the baby
eats more (and drains your milk more), then your body will *produce* more
for the next day.  It will keep going up like that until the baby has
"just the amount s/he needs".

I'm sure others can tell you more about that than I can, though. :-)

     Carol

    WOW! your note is EXACTLY what happend to me when I had my daughter
    8 years ago!  She would feed every 1-2 hours, ripped one nipple almost
    off etc....
    
    Well we just had a son 5 months ago and I too was afraid remembering
    everything that happend the first time.  However, I decided I was going
    to try it again, and you know what, it was actually easier this time.
    He latched on the first time, would feed 10-15 minutes each side, feed
    every 4 hours.  Maybe because he didn't want it every 1-2 hours it gave
    my body a chance to "fill" up before the next feeding.
    
    Go for it, relax, if at times it doesn't seem like your milk is there
    put a hot face cloth around your breast.  I found this helped release
    the milk flow, which made the sucking not so hard.  And yes in the
    beginning the nipples tended to get sore, but nothing compared to the 
    first time.
    
    GOOD LUCK!
    
    Karen
    

    I was very naive to imagine that large breasted women (like myself)
    would have lots of milk and no trouble feeding.
    With Charlotte she'd be feeding constantly, but still lost enough
    weight in the first few weeks that we had to start supplimenting.
    I never had the letting-down feeling, rarely dripped (unless she was
    actually nursing on the other side) and NEVER could get more than
    a few drops out with the pump.
    We lasted 3.5 months before she was uninterested (and so was I!) so we
    quit then.
    Although I never did any of those therapies that are supposed to 
    toughen the nipples, the hospital suggested something that worked
    very well for me - they gave me vitamin E capsules, and I would 
    prick them with a pin and squeeze a drop onto each nipple (after every
    feeding or so) and massage a little. This saved me from cracked
    nipples for the most part.
    Well, I'm bracing myself to go through this again (I'm 16 weeks 
    pregnant now) but I think knowing what to expect is half the battle.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Monica

    
>When I tried to pump, I would only get a few ounces (1-2) - if that.
>I never could feel the "let down" that so many women mention.
>After 4 wks, we started supplementing with formula, and I stopped
>totally at 4 months.
    
    Did you try expressing milk while feeding on the other side? 
    I know my wife found it much easier this way.
    
    Malcolm
    

    
    I think also it has something to do with the child.  My first I had 
    a lot of difficulty early on with sore nipples and excruciating pain
    during the first five minutes that gradually decreased to nothing over
    the first month or two.  We supplemented at 6 weeks because I was
    having difficulty pumping as well, however as a whole I considered the
    entire experience a positive one.  Once I was past the first two months
    nursing became enjoyable and I was able to continue thru her first
    year.
    
    My second child I assumed would be much easier now that I was
    experienced.  But..Latching on was just as painful, it hurt so much I would
    kick my feet on the floor until it stopped.  The baby also had thrush
    which transferred back and forth between us, I developed a terrible
    split in my left nipple and after many Dr.'s (incidentally, Dr.'s, both
    OBs and Pedis did not know much about nursing problems and initially
    gave a lot of thoughtless advise - like "try the baby's thrush
    medication on your nipple" - NOT! - that was a disaster!) visits and a 
    variety of treatments I was finally advised to give up nursing on that side
    all together.  My daughter was an extremely vigorous nurser, she would
    latch on to that nipple and twist it all over looking around.  It was
    not the relaxing experience I had with my first child.  It became so
    that everytime I had to nurse her I would have to take 5 minutes before
    and brace myself for the pain.  In addition she was extremely sensitive 
    to my diet, so I'd nurse her for 15 minute of killer pain and she would 
    procede to projectile vomit as soon as we were done, not exactly
    gratifying for either of us.  It was with some relief when I gave up 
    nursing her when she was 5 months.  
     
    
    I would definitely try again if I had another child, but don't know if
    I would have had I not had that prior positive experience. 
    
    .    

    I have always had problems with expressing milk through a pump, and
    have found that nursing the baby on one side does help.   Mostly pumps
    take a lot of patience and practice.  Try a couple of different pumps. 
    Borrow them from friends, or if you are at this site, I have a couple
    of varieties to try.  
    
    some things that have worked for me to keep my supply up are:
    
    	1.  Stay in bed as much as is humanly possible for the first week
    	or so.  Getting enough rest is important to getting your supply up. 
    
    	2.  Make sure you drink a BIG glass of water when the baby is
    	nursing.  (minimum of 12 ounces)  It takes a substantial amount of
    	fluid to make milk, and during the first few weeks you are losing
    	fluids through lochia and your blood volume getting back down to
    	normal.
    
    	3.  As Carol has pointed out, make sure your baby is latching on
    	with as much of the areola around your nipple as is humanly
    	possible.  
    
    	4.  Breastfed babies often eat every two hours or even more
    	frequently.  Breast milk digests more completely and quickly than
    	formula.  As long as the baby seems to be growing well, don't
    	worry about how often he or she eats.  They will slow down as they
    	can consume more and your supply is established.  
    
    	5.  Relax, (I know easy for me to say), tension reduces milk
    	supply.  Sleep when the baby sleeps to avoid exhaustion. 
    
    	6.  Now whether or not this is psychosomatic, I don't know, but I
    	also use an herbal tea for nursing mothers.  The one by traditional
    	medicinals tastes good, and for me, it works on the days when I
    	feel I can't keep up.
    
    	7.  If your nipples are already sore, try to air dry them as much
    	as possible.  You can also use vitamin e or masse breast cream if
    	you need it.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Meg

    Sounds all too familiar to me. I too had an awful time breast feeding
    my son. He also wanted to eat every 2 hrs and it hurt so bad toward the
    end I would cry. I dreaded it so much I could not relax and never "let
    down". You are not alone. I will also be hesitant to do it again but I
    intend to try if/when I have another baby. 
    
    Things I did right:
    
    Called a visiting nurse. She lives in Grafton and will come out to your
    house. Let me know if you want her name and number. I will gladly give
    them to you. She did help out a great deal with the whole "latching on"
    problem. But by the time she helped me it was too late. 
    
    Used Lanolin on nipples. Tried Vitamin E but the Lanolin worked better.
    I was given a tube in the hospital.
    
    Air dried. It helped heal nipples. 
    
    Used pump and gave baby bottle when nipples were absolutley too sore
    for the ravenous one to go at.
    
    Things I did wrong:
    
    I wasn't prepared. Breast feeding was only briefly mentioned in birth 
    class. I did read about it but had no idea how difficult it could be.
    
    Allowed myself to get engorged. I got my milk in on the 3rd day and just
    didn't expect it. I didn't really know what was happening. My breasts
    just ballooned up and got rock hard and hurt like h*ll.
    
    The baby was sleeping so much (he had a mild case a jaundice and was
    very lethargic when we came home from the hospital) and I didn't wake
    him enough to eat.  
    
    My son developed thrush after a couple days and I had no idea what it
    was. I would have brought him into the docs sooner and had it treated
    earlier if I had known what it was. Like someone said, mom and baby
    pass the infection back and forth. This didn't help my sore nipples at
    all.  
    
    Chose a pedi that knew little about breast feeding. He suggested
    supplementing and I just lost all confidence and quit. 
    
    Did not have formula around the house. I was so sure I would breast
    feed Andrew because my sister-in-laws did it and most of my friends did
    it that I didn't even bother buying formula. 
    
    
    I think it's important to be prepared. Have formula handy so that if
    you do get sore you can give your breasts a rest. Be good to yourself, 
    get as much rest as you can and drinks LOTS of water. Try to relax.
    Maybe with the second one, you'll be more comfortable. You'll
    definitley know more about what to expect. 
    
    Most importantly, give it your best shot but if it's not a "good"
    experience, try something else. If it's not working and you're in
    pain/stressed/whatever, your baby senses it and it's not good for your
    baby either. 
    
    I'm disappointed that I didn't breast feed Andrew as long as I had 
    planned but I also know that I did the best thing considering my/our 
    situation.    
    
    Hope this helps!
    Karen 
                 

regarding -.1 and jaundice.  

Our daughter had a pretty bad case of jaundice (double lights for a 
week) and was very lethargic.  When she was too tired to latch on or 
eat long enough, I gave her pumped bottles.  She needed the nutrition 
and needed to poop out the billirueben, and I needed to get the supply 
going.   that worked very well, as you can somewhat "forcefeed" a 
sleepy baby with a bottle, but can't forcefeed nursing.  

Unlike -.1, everything everyone told me said not to give formula to 
give yourself a rest becuase it would keep your supply from building 
up enough, which would lead to them being hungrier and wanting to 
nurse more, which would make you more sore, which would lead to more 
formula, etc.    They said to pump instead and give in a bottle.  

One suggestion the lactation counsellor had for healing sore
nipples was heat in the form of a light bulb. I put a 60 watt bulb
in a tiny little lamp, then exposed each nipple to the heat for
3 to 5 minutes after each nursing.  The heat itself felt wonderful, 
and it helped speed up the healing. (I suppose what it did was bring
more blood to the surface?)  Just be very careful to keep
the bulb a safe distance (ouch!), and pay attention.

I started using Lansinoh (sp?) a few weeks ago due to the dry winter
air.  It's a pure lanolin.  I got mine from the Motherware catalog.
Costs around $5, but you only use a smidge.  It seems to keep the
winter itching under control.

I strongly agree with seeking out a lactation counsellor and/or 
Le Leche.  They're both very helpful.  Le Leche suggests expecting
moms attend prior to delivery. (The maternity nurses at our hospital
weren't a lot of help.  The lactation counsellors at our ob/gyns were.)

See the note 224 for many recommendations about pumps.  I too had trouble
pumping with a small pump, but found the larger Medela was great.

    How difficult would it be to only breastfeed for the two months that I
    am out on maternity leave?  I asked the doctor about it, and he said
    the beginning milk is very good for the baby so even if I do it for a
    little while it is a benefit to the baby.  I just wonder how hard it is
    to switch from the breast to bottle in such a short time.  Has anyone
    else done this?  And if so what was your experience with it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Cheryl

re: .12

From what I've read, any amount of time you can nurse is a
plus.  I would guess that full or partial weaning to formula
could be done at 2 months as easily as at 3 or 4.  I'm sure others
have experience with this.

If you don't want to or can't pump at work, consider cutting back to only
morning and/or nighttime nursings once you're back at work.  The baby
would then have formula during the day.  (Your body can adjust to this.) 
That way the baby's still getting many of the benefits of breastfeeding. 
And it's SO much easier to nurse at night than heat bottles!

	Cheryl,

	I breastfed for 3 months total.  By that I mean that by the end
	of the third month Kristen was totally on bottles.  She had all
	breastmilk for 2 months, but at 3 weeks I started one bottle from	
	a pump.  I went back to work after 6 weeks and I didn't want to	
	wait till then to start using a pump.  I'm very happy I did it
	this way because I tried 2 pumps before I found the one that
	worked for me. (Medela - I think).  It was recommended by the
	hospital but I had tried a different brand that a friend lent
	me first.  

	Anyway I had two friends that had babies 3 months before me,
	both their doctors told them not to start a bottle at all before
	6 weeks because it would cause nipple confusion.  But when they
	followed that advice, they both had a hard time getting the 
	babies to take a bottle.  We have a baby that's very easy going
	and seems to adjust to each change just wonderfully (lucky I guess).
	She had no problem taking one feeding from a bottle, that
	had pumped breastmilk in it, starting at 3 weeks.  By the time
	I went back to work at 6 weeks I was comfortable with the pump
	schedule and the pump and the transition was smooth.  From 6 weeks
	to 3 months I gradually weaned her to all formula.  

	I weaned her by 3 months, because I had mixed feelings about
	breastfeeding.  Honestly I think bottle feeding is easier.  Of
	course we have to make the formula and heat the bottles but my
	husband can help so much more.  I enjoyed breastfeeding while
	I did it and I'll definitely do it again for future babies.  But
	I just didn't want to do it anymore and I know by 3months she
	had received the biggest benefits from it.  I think all you mothers
	who breastfeed even longer are GREAT! and you deserve a lot of 
	credit.  It just wasn't for me after that and I know I'm not
	harming her because what about all those babies that don't get
	any breastmilk.  I think it's a personal decision, each mom
	has to make and I'm happy with what we did.  Whatever you
	choose - good luck and congratulations on your pregnancy.

	Karen T.

	P.S. Overall I recommend to try to breastfeed and do it as
	     long as you and baby are comfortable.  But I hear so
             many stories about moms that feel guilty because they
             try and can't (for a variety of reasons) and I think
             we put too much emphasis on it.  It's hard enough
             when your hormones are doing a number on you, but to
	     feel guilty and feel like a bad mother because you
             can't breastfeed just adds to it. So if you're not
             successful - don't sweat it.  Good luck either way!

    Thanks Karen, 
    
    It makes me feel more assured that someone else did it with success.
    
    Cheryl

To avoid engorgement problems, you'll want to wean gradually.  You
might want to consider supplementing (that is, replace one nursing with
one bottle feeding) around 3 weeks.  Decide how many nursings you want
at 8 weeks (if any).  Between 3 weeks and 8 weeks, gradually reduce the
number of nursings by replacing bottle feedings until you're where you
want to be.  

I used this method when I returned to work around 5 months after the
baby was born.  I dropped one nursing a week (though your body can adjust
to a faster rate -- I just wanted to take it very slowly.)  

Some things that can throw a monkey-wrench into your well-laid plans:

	- some babies refuse to breastfeed after being introduced to
	  a bottle

	- some babies are very reluctant to accept the bottle

	- there are growth spurts at 2 weeks and 6 weeks (typically)
	  where the baby may want more feedings for a couple of days
	  (and nights)

	- you may experience clogged milk ducts -- don't try dropping
	  a feeding when you're trying to work on a clogged duct --
	  get all the help you can from that baby!!  (This is the pained
	  voice of experience here :-)

	- even if you decide that you'd like to continue with x nursings
	  a day, your body may not cooperate  (I've read that some women
	  have their supply dry up when they reduce to 2 nursings/day)

Get advice from a professional about how many days between dropping a
nursing.  I just can't recall what was advised.  I ran into trouble when
my pedi wanted me to replace 2 nursings a day with bottle-feedings (Noelle
was *losing* weight at 3 weeks of age).  That was too abrupt for me, and that's
when I had the clogged duct trouble.

Hope this is helpful!

- Deb

    
    RE: soreness at the start of breastfeeding
    
    The nurse at the hospital told me to not only air-dry, but to 
    express a bit of colostrum onto the nipples, then let them air-dry.
    
    This worked wonders, eliminating the soreness I had in less than
    a day.
    
    For engorgement when the milk comes in... I had read that the baby
    would have a very difficult time latching on to an engorged breast,
    so just before feeding time (Emily fed every three hours *exactly* for
    the first 2 weeks), I hand expressed a small bit from each side.  It
    was my first attempt at expressing, but it worked great.  I never
    experienced that real painful period that people talk about - I assume
    it was because I expressed a bit as needed.
    
    Now, a question for all you experienced pumpers.  How do you nurse
    one side and pump the other ?  Emily used to fully drain the first
    side (in less than 10 minutes), would fuss a bit, then I'd switch
    her to the other side.  If you pump one side, what happens if baby's
    still hungry ?
    
    Karen
    

    
    RE: .17
    
    If you pump on one side while nursing on the other your body will catch
    up.  Generally, your body will produce milk at the rate it was needed
    in the previous day.  If you pump during your 9am feeding your baby may
    be hungry sooner than expected that morning, but by the next morning 
    your body will produce more (essentially double) milk for the 9am
    feeding and your baby should return to the previous (non-pumping)
    schedule.
     
    The same logic applies to weening.  Reduce the amount of milk produced
    by nursing (or expressing) a small (1 ounce) amount at the regular
    feeding time.  The next day your body will only produce 1 ounce of milk
    & you might not even feel the production. This is why lots of women can 
    nurse morning & night and skip daytime feedings without any discomfort.  
    
    I've nursed both of my kids, the first I weened to morning & night by
    3 months (using a gradual introduction of formula over a 2 week period
    of time).  She gave up nursing all together at 7 months.  She just
    decided that bottles were easier.
    
    I'm still nursing my son (7 months) with only an occasional (~4 oz per
    week) supplement of formula.  Nursing the second child is MUCH easier
    than the first.  I never felt "let down" with my daughter and only
    through experience do I notice it with Craig.  
    
    A few things made for an easy decision to continue breastfeeding when I
    returned to work:
    
    	o  Craig nurses rapidly.  He eats from both sides in 10-12 minutes
    		and has done this since about 3 weeks.  This made pumping
    		easier - my body was used to releasing milk quickly - so
    		I can pump 6-8 oz in 15 minutes at work.
    
    	o  Craig drank breast milk from a bottle at 3 weeks.  Granted it
    		was only 1-2 oz, but it indicated a willingness to drink
    		without nipple confusion.  My pedi & lactation counsellor
    		suggested silicon nipples (no taste) instead of rubber -
    		this has been shown to decrease nipple confusion.
    
    	o  Craig was an independent baby and not very cuddly.  He preferred
    		to sleep in a baby seat or crib instead of being held. 
    		The only time he was (and is) cuddly is when I nurse.  I
    		missed that special closeness I had with my daughter, so
    		I have continued to nurse so that I can cuddle with my
    		little guy.
    
    The decision to breast feed is very personal, give it a try and if
    you enjoy it then continue.  If not, don't let other people make you
    feel guilty.  There are plenty of babies who won't nurse, period. 
    Try to be relaxed about it and you might surprise yourself.
    
    Also, a note to weening babies at 3 months.  I have a close friend who
    tried weening at 3 months to go back to work and her baby refused
    (big time) a bottle.  My friend was miserable trying all sorts of
    nipples & milke & formula & juice until she discovered that her baby
    would take a few ounces from a sippy cup!  At 8 weeks she was starting
    on a cup!  So if you're having bottle problems, try a cup.
    
    Best of luck!  Enter more notes here if you have problems & we'll
    continue to reply to you...
    
    -Maureen

Regarding what Meg said about latching on:

I had to actually take my (very large) breast and squeeze the end of it to
stuff it into the baby's mouth.  If I didn't, he didn't have a good hold and it
would 1) hurt me, 2) reduce the amount of milk he was getting.  Don't be shy
about this.  It's necessary to get all/nearly_all the areola (brown area)
in the baby's mouth.  His/her jaw does the work of making the milk come out
of your breast.  If the baby doesn't have his/her jaw in the right position,
it won't work well.

By the way, if any of you are helped from the information provided in these
notes, please let us know.  :-)

     Carol

    I had difficulties breastfeeding both of my sons.  I did manage to
    breastfeed my first for a couple of months but had problems pumping
    at work so ended up putting him on the bottle at 2 1/2 months. With 
    my second son I received some VERY helpful advice from a lactation 
    consultant.  The problem was my son was an impatient nurser!  He would 
    latch on and begin to nurse but would stop after a few sucks because the 
    milk wasn;t letting down right away away.  They suggested expressing some 
    milk before feeding and then use a medicine dropper to drop milk onto my 
    breast as he was starting to nurse - to encourage him to continue sucking. 
    Of course, this takes 2 people to accomplish but it did seem to work well!
    
    

    I remember that my Dr. asked that I not use vitamin e because of its 
    toxicity. you can take too much vitimin e and have medical problems.
    She was concerned that there was no way of telling how much of the 
    e was too much for a baby. It is posible that if you rinse before
    nursing the e vitamin would not be on the surface of the skin and 
    get into the mouth.
    
    She suggested that I not use soap on my nipples for any reason during
    my pregnancy and after the baby was born so that the natural oils
    could do thier job in conditioning the tip of nipples. Just rinsing 
    with water and washcloth seems to be enough to handle the sanitary
    requirements. The only time I had a problem was when a milk duct became
    infected and midwifes and the person I talked to from the Le Leche
    Leage suggested that I put warm cloths on the affected breast and
    continue to nurse nursing most often from the affected breast. As
    several sources had the same advise I tryed it instead of what the
    Pediatrician suggested ( stop nursing) But in 8 years the Drs have even
    changed about the type of advise they give.
    
    With my last child the hospital had a lactation consultant that was 
    paid to assist the nursing couple(mother and child). As I had three
    children already and had gotten better at nursing each time I thought
    it was wonderful but didn't think I would need her. Wrong!
    I had a baby who slept for 24 hrs before nursing for any lenth of time.
    I was very worried that he would shrivel and die (he was only 5 lbs to
    start with). The lactation consultant spent more than an hour total
    time reassuring me that my baby would nurse when he was ready. She was
    right the next day almost 24 hours later he would wake-up and nurse and 
    stay awake during the feeding.  During that first 24 hour period I
    would attempt to wake him up every two hours to nurse I would spend ten
    or fifteen minutes trying and then put him back in the bassenet. Then
    worry till the next try. Because of the training by the consultant none
    of the nurses offered water for the baby nor did they insist that the
    baby be feed by bottle to assure the weight gain of the baby they
    seemed content to try to sooth my worrying and assure me that the Drs
    would be concerned after 24 to 48 hours if he continued  not to eat.
    
    My third child would also throwup right after nursing and the Dr
    suggested that since the baby was gaining weight I should try to 
    limit the time at the breast for each feeding so that his tummy would 
    not get so full.  This problem started almost immediantly after my milk
    came in for the first time. Over 24 hours I saw a reduction in vomiting 
    and the Dr still saw weight gain so he concluded that my third child was 
    just a little piglet and was eating more than his tummy could hold. 
    After one or two weeks I let him go back to nursing til he wanted to 
    stop and did not seem to have a problem.
    
    jan

    When I was nursing my son, he could spend up to an hour or longer
    and I'd think he was eating.  I got concerned after a couple of months
    and called the nurse to ask her about it.  She said sometimes they
    just like to suck; they need the stimulation and it is good exercise
    for them.  I didn't believe in pacifiers until I was trying to wean
    my baby. 
    
    

    
    Help!
    
    I replyed (.18) to this note 2 weeks ago raving about nursing - now
    I'm the one who needs help...
    
    Craig (7 months) sprouted his first 2 teeth this past week.  He's 
    still nursing, but adds biting!  He seems to be "trying out" his
    new teeth, and usually only bites me when he's nearly finished
    nursing.  
    
    I give a yelp when he does it, but how do I get him to stop?
    
    He's got plenty of teething toys, but still chomps on me!
    
    -Maureen

Maureen, 

Funny timing.   Since we found the first tooth sprout yesterday (a
slit in the gum with a little white point sticking out) and I'm still
nursing, I just read up on this in What to Expect the First Year. 

They said that in order to be properly attached, the tongue must be 
over the bottom teeth.  Thus, you can not get bitten by accident or 
feel the teeth when they are truly eating.  (this is the bottom teeth 
anyway).    

They said to detatch, and give a firm "no" in an appropriate tone of
voice.   They maintain that repeating this will get the point across 
and he/she will stop biting.    Also, since they can not suck and 
bite, if they bite, they may well be done feeding and on to sucking/playing, 
so keep an eye out for that.  


I'd be interested to hear from others who actually went through this 
and solved it.  I don't know if Bridget will bite or not, but now that 
the teeth are sprouting, she has the equipment...     What about when 
upper teeth come in?   

    I have nursed five babies and went through a biting period with
    each one.  I used the same routine with each one...break suction,
    say "no biting" and if they continued to bite I would put them 
    down and say firmly "no biting".  Eventually they got the point and
    it never got bad enough to make me wean them because of it.  I am 
    still nursing Kendrick (almost 17 mos.) in the morning and at bedtime.
    He was my worse biter and he hardly ever bites me anymore (he has 14
    teeth), only bites now when he is falling asleep and clamps down as 
    he drifts off.. I would say try doing what I did, they are pretty 
    smart and it doesn't take long to get the point across...good luck 
    those new teeth are sharp!!! I really thought a couple times Kendrick
    was really going to take off my nipple...but he didn't and daddy is 
    greatful :>))

I found that my daughter tended to bite more if we were nursing lying
down.  Much as I enjoyed nursing that way, we now nurse only sitting
up.

I also use a firm "NO!" when she bites, then put her down.  She
howls as though I've broken her heart, but she rarely bites anymore.

The only times I've not reprimanded her is when she's almost asleep.
I don't want to wake her, plus I figure she's too sleepy to know what
she's doing.

The top teeth are more irritating, even when she isn't intentionally
biting. Lucky for me, she didn't cut those until 1 year.

    I agree that pulling the baby off and saying, "No Biting" works!  I
    also would touch Natasha two lips when I said, "No Biting".  She tried
    for a month on an off (before the 1 year mark) and after that she's try 
    it when she was cutting a tooth.  Two consective bites meant coming off
    the breast for about 10 minutes.
    
    I nursed until she was 28 months and a mouth full of teeth and she
    never attempted a bite after all her teeth were in.  
    
    In the beginning I found that my yelping/scream was part of the amusement 
    for her.  (hay,,,I can make Mommy make a noise.......hhhhhhmmm let's
    try it again)
    

    Hi,
    
    I just came back after 6 weeks, and am using the Medela Classic (the
    20-pounder, builds great arm muscles) while I'm at work.  Due to
    Colleen's appetite and impatience, we had to start supplementing her,
    usually just at her last night time feeding, with about 4 oz. of
    formula or breastmilk that I've pumped after she's nursed on both sides
    for a good 15-20 min.  (This is also the time she decided to start
    sleeping through the night most of the time.)
    
    Now that I'm back to work, I'm trying to pump enough to minimize the
    amount of formula she gets during the day.  I'm only able to get about
    6 oz. a day, by pumping twice at work, and once during the night or
    early morning.  I'm doing both sides at the same time, but I never seem
    to get more than 2 oz. total with each session.  I nurse on demand when
    I'm with her, and except for that bedtime feeding, or times when she
    decides to eat 30 min. after I've pumped, she seems happy.  So, can
    anyone tell me if this is a normal amount, or supply any suggestions on
    how to increase my production?
    
    We're not misreading her cues when she needs the extra bottle
    supplement - she did her routine one morning in the pedi's office, 30
    min. after she'd drained both sides, and he just said "feed her - it's
    definitely hunger"  because she was really mad and starting rooting on
    anything and anyone she could.  She is gaining weight, but is *not* an
    overweight baby - she was 8 lbs. 10 oz. & 22" long at birth, and was
    9 lbs. 6 oz. and 23.5" long last week - tall & skinny, not an ounce of
    fat on her (if only Mom was so lucky)....
    
    Also, I'll be switching to the Medela Lactina soon - anybody have any
    comparisons between the Lactina and the Classic?  (besides the weight,
    of course)
    
    Thanks,
    Becky

Becky-

I haven't used the Classic, but still use the double shields on the
Lactina. The most I ever got from one pumping was 5 ounces. The 
average was between 3 and 4 each pumping.  I came back to work 
when the baby was 4 months; I was pumping once in the morning
at home, then 3 times per day at work.  

During the month prior to getting the Lactina, I used a Mag-Mag portable.
I was able to get only 1 or 2 ounces each pumping.  Very frustrating!

Are you sure you have the pump set up properly?  A loose connection can
decrease the suction.  I believe Medela has an 800 number you can call
for info. They might be able to tell you comparisons between the models.

There are many suggestions in 224.* about pumping, pumps, etc.

--Jennifer

    I found both the classic and the lactina to produce the same results. 
    I never had a problem getting 6-9 oz at a time with either machine,
    although I did prefer the portability of the lactina....
    
    I would offer one bit of advice, make sure you are relaxed and
    comfortable wherever you are pumping...may help increase production.  I
    did not try to pump at work I don't think I could have relaxed enough.
    
    beth

    
    If you have to pump at work and cannot use the Health Centre/a private
    office etc, try the car!!
    
    I used to sit in the car over my lunchbreak and pump while I read the
    paper/a book. You are fairly private (unless someone comes to mend the
    car you are parked next to as happened to me!!), you can use a
    paper/book/coat to cover your pump if required and nobody can hear the
    pump motor and wonder what you are doing!!
    
    In these winter months, you can keep the coolbox with the pumped milk
    in within your car, so you don't have to carry pump/coolbox/bottles etc
    to and from the office.
    
    It's must easier to relax in the car with the radio or a tape on than
    in the office.
    
                          seals
    

I'm still nursing and have been back to work since October.  Bridget 
is 6 months now.    

I have the Lactina Plus (the one with the rechargeable battery) and 
love it because I don't need to find electricity to run it.    I do 
one side at a time (in only takes me 10 min total to pump, so I 
couldn't justify the extra $ for the extra shield & tubes and juggling 
two bottles, shields, etc).     however, I did put a piece of tape 
over that hole like you are supposed to when using it double, to 
increase the suction - did you do that if you are using it for double?)

Schedule: 
I used to nurse at 6am, then pump at 11:30 and at 3:30 when I first 
got back.  She was only taking two 4 oz bottles at the sitter, so I 
pumped 5oz each time and then stopped, to put some in the freezer.   
If I could not get to do it twice during the day, I'd go till empty
the first time, which was about 6 oz, and then just get the rest after
work (~2oz) before I fed her (there would still be enough for her). 

Now though, two things happened.   She wants two 5.5oz bottles at 
the sitters, and my schedule is such that I often have afternoon 
meetings which cuts out the 3:30 time.    I can't just push that till 
after work since she wants to nurse then too.   So here's what I do...  

The books said that the morning was when most people had the most
milk, and that's true with me.   She eats at 6am.   At 7:30, I pump
again and usually get 4 oz.   I can usually get 8oz at lunchtime,
(which I push to 1:00 since I am only pumping once at work).   That
gives me the 11oz totoal she needs, and 1oz to mix with her cereal in
the morning.    It allows me to pump only once at work, which is easy 
to fit in at lunchtime.     I've found that pumping in the morning is 
easy becuase it allows me to take advantage of when my body has a lot 
of milk, rather than fighting my body to give me the 5.5 oz I needed 
at 3:30, when it was tired, and I was in the middle of doing 10 things 
at work, and I was uptight that I wouldn't get enough.   

Place: 
You're node is MKO, so you probably have the nurse's office to go to.  
I use it when I'm in MRO and it's great.  In my building we have none, 
so I go to the ladies' room.   The handicapped stall has a chair in 
it, and a sink for cleanup.   I do it there all the time, so my 
body has probalby adjusted to the atmosphere.   Bring a picture of 
your baby if you are slow to let down.     If you really need more 
milk, I think if you let the pump keep going for a while even after 
you are empty, it will be the same as the baby nursing when you are 
empty, whcih is a sign to your body to produce more.   

Good luck, write me offline if you want. 

	Pumping twice a day at work with a manual pump, I used to get 7-9 oz.

	When Emily dropped a feeding, I started pumping once a day at work
	and got about 4 ounces.   On the nights that I taught aerobics,
	I would also pump around 9:00 at night, and would get 3-4 ounces.
	Emily would drink breastmilk from a bottle those nights.

	Karen

    As I started to reply to this string, I said "Heh, this sounds familiar; 
    I've said this before."  So, I'm re-posting my reply from another string.
    I hope that it helps.
    
    Also, my son is now almost 25 months old, and I'm still breastfeeding
    him in the morning.  Pretty soon, I'll take the plunge and drop this
    last feeding, but I know I'm going to miss it ...
    
    Good luck!
    
    Leslie
    
           <<< MOIRA::MOIRA$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PARENTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Parenting >-
================================================================================
Note 224.50           Breastfeeding & working/breast pumps             50 of 128
NIMBUS::HARRISON "Icecreamoholic"                    53 lines  27-APR-1993 21:10
                    -< A success story, and some pointers >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I managed to feed my baby breastmilk exclusively through 8 months, at
    which point I stopped pumping and supplemented with whole milk (the
    doctor had no objection to milk, rather than formula, as long as the
    baby got iron supplements, which would be required with breastmilk
    exclusively, too).
    
    In the beginning, I found that, without a big stockpile in the freezer
    from which to supplement, pumping at work wasn't going to be enough.
    
    So, what I found most useful were the following:
    
    	- In addition to pumping at work, I pumped first thing in the 
    	  morning.  This started to get pretty time-consuming (feeding the
    	  baby, then "feeding" the pump!), so I decided to do them both
    	  simultaneously.  This meant a baby on one breast, and the pump 
    	  on the other.  It may sound strange, but it was extremely effective.
    
    	  First, it takes no longer to do both, although it does take a
    	  little bit away from the "experience," but it's for the greater
    	  good, so I found it acceptable.  Also, if you have a problem 
    	  with letdown, which I frequently did, the baby certainly takes
    	  care of that problem.
    
    	- I also used an electric pump, but the retail variety, one made by
    	  Evenflo.  I found it to be good, but I also found it very helpful
    	  to manually pump my breasts, while using the pump.  This makes it
    	  go MUCH faster, especially if you don't let down, but even if you
    	  do.  It took me forever (months?) to figure this trick out, even
    	  though it seems so obvious.
    
    	- I only pumped once per day, early to mid afternoon.  Originally,
    	  I tried twice a day, but I found that it consumed too much time,
    	  plus I found that I got as much from the one afternoon pumping
    	  as I was getting from both.  I think that this was because I
    	  was fuller in the afternoon, so it was easier to pump, especially
    	  if I didn't experience letdown.
    	  
    My baby isn't even much of a baby anymore (16 1/2 months), and I'm 
    still breastfeeding him, exclusively when I'm with him (weekends and
    one day per week, when I work at home), meaning 3-4 times per day, and
    twice per day the four days that I'm in the office.
    
    If it doesn't work out for you, don't be too disappointed.  The baby
    will be fine, and you'll get some autonomy back.  However, it can work,
    and it is can be very rewarding, too.
    
    So, now all I have to do is figure out when I'm ready and how I'll wean
    him!  I was always hoping that it would be his idea, but it doesn't look
    like he's considering it much before college.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Leslie

    Leslie,
    
    
    they do decide on their own to give up the breast, but it can be a
    little over 2 years.  At least that's what my two older girls did.  
    
    One puming tip that I do know helps is make sure you have a large glass
    of water or tea and drink it while you are running the pump.  Also make
    sure you are getting plenty of water during the day.  It is very easy
    to forget to drink enough when you are trying to get work done and
    worried about 9 million details.  
    
    As for biting.  I am probably the worlds loudest screamer, as well as
    using the nobiting words.  They could use me in horror pictures for
    sound effects.  It may scare the kids, neighbors and anyone in earshot,
    but generally the biting stopped pretty quickly.  Hopefully this will
    work for Atlehi as well, she is starting to act like the teeth will be
    coming through soon.
    
    Meg  

    Thanks for all the replies.
    
    I guess I'm just not much of a producer.  Things I have tried:
    
    Drinking more fluids
    Drinking something warm/hot just before & during pumping
    double pumping (always do this)
    letting the pump run a few min. after milk flow has stopped
    stopping after a 5-8 min., and massaging, stroking, shaking, etc.
    	then trying for 5 more min.
    warm moist heat before pumping
    holding baby or nursing while single pumping
    pumping early in the morning before she awakens
    pumping in the middle of the night 
    pumping in place of an extra feeding while she naps
    deep breathing, relaxation
    and even...pumping after sex 
    
    Nothing seems to increase the amount - it stays between 1 - 2 oz. per
    side, per session.  2 oz. is rare, I usually don't get more than 1 oz.
    unless it's my middle-of-the-night session, or after a hot shower.
    
    It definitely isn't a let-down problem - I have to make sure I've got
    the pump ready to go, and that baby & clothes are quick access, because
    my let-down is so quick sometimes.  In fact, that's why I pump in the
    middle of the night - hearing her little sleeping noises over the
    monitor in my sleep trigger it.
    
    She's also got a powerful suck - trust me on that one - we've learned
    not to give her a finger - it hurts!  And, her technique is fine - the
    pedi checked that at her newborn visit.
    
    I have one thing left I'm going to try - a heating pad.  I seem to be able
    to replenish my supply faster (but not increase the amount) after a hot
    shower.  Hot soaks aren't too easy to manage at work (heck, hot water 
    isn't easy to get in our ladies' rooms), so I'm going to try this,
    since I can discreetly use it in my office, over my clothes, before
    slipping away to pump.
    
    I have tried a different pump, the MagMag electric, and it doesn't
    help.  In fact, I get only .5 oz *total* with it - so it's not the
    pump.  I get the same amount hand expressing (1 oz.) as with the
    Medela, and I've double checked the pump - it's set up properly.
     
    She's happy just nursing on the days we're together, except for the
    little extra formula she wants at bedtime.  She will nurse about 3
    times from 7:00 - 11:00 am, then sleep for 2-3 hours.  Then, nurse
    again 1 or 2 times, sleep for another 3-4 hours, then 2 more times,
    then bed (7-8 hours of sleep).
    
    Occassionally, she wants more than there is, and I have to try to keep
    her calm for 30 min. or so till I've got more - I don't go with a
    bottle, unless we're about to get in the car for a long ride - I can't
    feed her there, and she'll fall asleep and miss the next feeding.
    
    So, any more ideas out there to help me increase my production?  If
    nothing works, I'll live with what I've got, and keep supplementing,
    but I'd like to eliminate that 4-6 oz. of formula she gets during the
    day, and the occasional 2-4 oz. at night, if I can, at least till she's
    older.  In the meantime, I've been pumping as much as possible, even
    when I'm home, and stockpiling it in the freezer.  But, this won't be
    enough when I got back to work full-time later this month (I'm using
    vacation days to work M, W & F now).
    
    Thanks,
    Becky

    Becky,
    
    Some of these questions may be a little personal to answer in the
    notesfile, feel free to answer me by mail if you would like.
    
    Are you dieting to lose the excess "baby fat" at this time?  Making
    sure you get enough calories can sometimes be critical.  
    
    If you are large breasted to begin with?   Sometimes the milk seems to
    "hide" in the breast tissue.  I do know a few work around to find it
    when that happens, as it has been a problem for me.
    
    Cooking with a fair amount of Basil also can increase production if
    that is the problem.  Sage can reduce milk production.  It has been
    used by a midwife I know when someone has had to abruptly stop nursing
    for one reason or another.  it was also recommended by a women's health
    clinic in Coorado Springs for pregnancy losses of all kinds to stop
    milk production, so if you are a sage lover, try giving it up for a
    week or so.  
    
    I actually do better with a hand-operated pump than with the electrics. 
    It might be worth trying one of the slide pumps if you know someone you
    can borrow one from, or if not, they aren't terribly expensive.  (About
    $17.00)
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Meg  

    
    
    	Is there anyone in this notesfile that got pregnant *while* still
    nursing their last child?
    
    	Was it really tough (I mean more tough than having two at home,
    while working full time, while,.......)
    
    	No, I am not pregnant (darn) but with things going the way they are
    with Griffin, it looks like when he fianlly weans it will be onto a
    beer bottle and not a blue bottle ;-)
    
    				Wendy
                                           

    Wendy,
    
    I have a freind that nursed for the first 8 months of her last
    pregnancy and worked full time.  Birch was 2 at the time, and not quite
    ready to give up nursing when Laurie became pregnant.  She did get him
    weaned before the new baby came, but I do know of a few people who
    "tandem nursed" for a bit while convincing the oldest sibling that
    he/she was too grown up for nursing.  
    
    I think La Leche has information on your nursing toddler that may
    address this.  they are always worth a call.
    
    Meg 

	Wendy,

	If you do try this, let me know so I can pray for you... I was
	so exhausted with this pregnancy (in the beginning), that the
	nursing child would have had to help herself while I was sleeping
	if she really wanted to eat.

	Combine that with the ravenous appetite I had while nursing, and
	the ravenous appetite I had in my first trimester, and lookout!

    Meg,
    
    Thanks for the info.  I haven't been dieting at all.  Except for
    helping to get rid of all the edible Xmas gifts we got, I've been
    trying to stick to the kinds of stuff I ate while pregnant.  I know I
    don't drink as much water, and I'm trying to increase that, and fresh
    produce is harder to get (and more $$$) this time of year, but I'm
    still getting plenty of the right things.  I'm actually eating more
    now, because the baby was so big she didn't leave any room for food or
    breathing the entire 3rd. trimester.
    
    The baby weight did come off fast, I lost 18 lbs. within 3 days of
    delivery, and another 6 lbs. by the end of the first week, and that was
    after coming home Thanksgiving Day, and pigging out on leftover turkey, 
    etc. for the next few days.  I'm about 10-15 lbs. overweight, which is
    normal for me anyway, but I'm not trying to lose it yet. As for breast 
    size, well, that's definitely not the problem.  Large, I'm not. 
    
    The amount I get hasn't changed much all from the day my milk came in. 
    I started hand expressing at 3 weeks, and pumping occasionally with the
    Medela at 4 weeks.  I've tried a cylinder-type hand pump too, that
    comes with the Medela attachment kit - I get less with it.  
    
    I'll try paying attention to the Basil vs. Sage idea.  I have
    discovered that eating cookies with annisette/licorice flavoring is a
    no-no.  I get less milk, and the let-down must be slower, because she
    throws a fit after 1-2 min. of suckling, but will take the same milk 
    from a bottle if pumped, so I don't think the taste is an issue.
    
    I've made sure to stay away from alcohol & caffeine, and also
    decongestants & antihistamines - I thought I read in here somewhere
    that those things will dehydrate you, and thus reduce the milk.
    
    Guess I'll just keep trying....
    
    Becky

One suggestion that I received was to pump for 10 minutes per side after
*every* nursing for 1-2 weeks.  You mentioned that you tried pumping a few
extra minutes but I wasn't sure you tried the 10-minute routine.  The
lactation specialists wanted me to do this with the mega-pump rented from
the hospital (I think it was a Medela).

I can't vouch for the results -- I kind of enjoyed the daily break that
supplementation gave me so I didn't follow their advice...

    Deb,
    
    Thanks, that might help.  I didn't have the heating pad today, but I
    switched to pumping in a stall in the ladies' locker room - more
    comfortable than the unlocked area outside the nurse's office - didn't
    have to worry about being walked in on, and was kind of like home - I
    could hear & talk to people if I wanted, but didn't have a stranger
    walk in on me unexpectedly to use the scale or something.
    
    [Why don't they give us a small floor-to-ceiling office in every
    building to use?  If they can build special rooms for smokers, they
    should be able to give nursing mothers a room - we don't require
    anything except a little privacy, a chair and an electrical outlet. 
    But that's another topic...]
    
    I did try to pump more over the weekend, even though I was with her
    nursing on demand the entire time.  I noticed that I seemed to refill a
    bit quicker in the morning - was able to nurse (on both sides) 2x in 90
    min. Sunday, and had plenty this morning for one long feeding with her. 
    Also got a little more by doing only only one session at work this
    morning, and letting the pump run an extra 10-15 min.
    
    Your suggestion makes sense, it might provide extra stimulation, to
    make up for her weakened suck as she tends to relax & doze off after
    the first 5-7 min.  I'll try it.
    
    One thing that has helped, at least in the relaxation dept. - this
    string and the mail I've gotten.  I didn't know anyone who'd even tried
    to nurse while working, and didn't plan on trying till I began reading
    everyone's experiences.  The support I've gotten from my coworkers &
    manager, and from the folks in notes, and even the strangers
    encountering me in the ladies' room, or halls, lugging around this big
    pump and a cooler has been fantastic.  
    
    That, and the fact that my family and my husband are very supportive.   
    Colleen is with my parents for now while I'm working, and they are
    being great, dealing with containers of frozen milk, not feeding her
    much before she's picked up so she'll be hungry when I get home, etc.
    
    I'll keep trying, so keep sending those suggestions.  I'll report back
    on what works/doesn't work for me, to help anyone else out there.
    
    Thanks,
    Becky

    Beckie,
    
    What you said on a quiet room.  I was fortunate enough to have one
    since June, as they had converted an vacated manager's office into a
    not on duty room.  It had comfortable chairs and a table, and low
    lighting.  Frank has been bringing Atlehi in at lunch time so I can
    fill her up and get a bottle for the afternoon for her, and this was
    ideal.  Unfortunately they will be converting this room back to a
    manager's office in the next few weeks :-(.  Oh well, back to finding a
    vacant conference room at lunch time.  While my cubemtes wouldn't be
    bothered by feeding Atlehi at my desk, the battery powered breast pump
    is distracting, not to mention the fact that with a eight-month-old who
    likes to kick the pump, it becomes impossible to be descreet.
    
    Meg

    My family practitioner was still nursing her 2.5 yr old when she was
    pregnant with her 3rd child. Once the baby was born she weaned her
    daughter since by that time she was really only nursing for comfort.
    
    Lynn
    

    
    RE: privacy in unlocked conference rooms or nurse's offices.
    
    Try backing your chair up to the door.  That way no one can
    come in and surprise you. (This assumes there's just one door,
    of course.)
    
    Line printer paper is great for taping up to the little windows
    in the doors.
    
    I also used an "Occupied -- Come back in 15 minutes" hand-written
    sign that I taped outside the door.

    
    
    I do not have time to look over every note so I apologize if this has
    been covered elsewhere.  If it has, please let me know.  I didn't seem
    to find anything so far in the notes I have looked.  In any case, I am
    having problems with my milk production in my left breast only.
    
    Paul is 3 months old today.  I am back to work full time starting this
    week and have a great schedule.  We live 2 miles from my work so I am
    able to nurse in the morning, come home and nurse at lunch and when I
    get home, nurse and continue to throughout the night.  Paul receives a
    small bottle mid morning and mid afternoon.  He is a hungry little man
    and doesn't have a problem going from bottle to nipple.  The problem
    lies in that he favors my right breast, which is understandable
    considering its twice as full as the other.  The result of this is that
    my production has slown to just about nothing (left only) and I am walking
    around lopsided and in pain.  I do not pump, because I don't feel its
    necessary as the schedule permits to nurse directly.  He gets formula
    in the bottles.  I did not have good luck pumping and would perfer not
    to.  
    
    Any ideas on how to get the other breast started again?  I let him suck
    on this one when he just wants the sucking but when he is hungry he
    gets frustrated obviously as nothing much is there and ends up nursing
    on the other.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    a mom who doesn't want to be here,
    
    cj
    
         

    cj,
    
    You want to encourage him to nurse for a few minutes on the less
    productive side for a few minutes before you let him go onto the fuller
    side, and then also finish up with the less productive side again. 
    This has worked for me.  
    
    I do have a friend whose kids all refused by 6 months to nurse on one
    side.  She grinned and beared being lopsided until they were weaned,
    and fwiw, you really can't tell when she isn't nursing that there is a
    difference between the two breasts.
    
    Meg

    well, it's time to report back on what has worked/not worked....
    
    First of all, things are getting better.  I still can't pump enough to
    eliminate the formula when we're apart, but it's okay, I can live with
    that, and so can she.
    
    What has worked:
    
    Increasing my fluids during the day
    
    Switching pumps - the Medela Classic worked great, but switching to the
    Lactina makes pumping less of a drag, literally.  Instead of trying to
    manage a briefcase, insulated bag, and a 20 lb. pump the size of a
    VT220, I now carry one roomy bag, like a Lands' End attache - much more 
    convenient.  Now pumping isn't such a hassle.  I also attract less
    attention - eliminating questions and remarks from people curious about
    what I was carrying.
    
    One man in my building made a remark about me needing to carry a 6-pack
    and cooler to get through the day, and then said "what the heck is all
    that anyway?"  Wish I had a camera when I told him - he had no idea,
    and is my father's age....got that embarrassed reaction from a lot of
    people, except other mothers...
    
    I tried pumping in the nurse's office, but here in MK2 we don't have a
    full-time nurse, so I had to use the waiting room, with a sign on the
    door saying that it's occupied.  Some people just can't read, and with
    that area being right off the lobby & smoking room, I felt like I had
    no privacy (and got walked in on too).
    
    I switched to the ladies' locker room, which has running water and an
    outlet - big + is that I met another mom there, and now we chat as we
    pump - has helped both of us relax, and de-stress.
    
    I was nursing exclusively on the days I was at home (Tu/Th), but having
    the snowstorm helped, since I got to stay home on a Fri. - that gave
    us 4 days together exclusively breastfeeding, so I took advantage of it
    and if I couldn't interest her in an extra feeding here & there, I used
    the pump instead.  Also, it gave me time to try her on one side and the
    pump on the other for a morning feeding.  Very awkward, she only likes 
    to lay across my lap, and likes to hold my free hand, leaving me with
    nothing to securely hold the bottle, but...it worked - I now produce
    more in the morning, so she's more satisfied, and leaves a bit behind,
    so I am very full the first time I pump at work, and she isn't starving
    for a bottle 30 min. after I leave for work.
    
    She also has started taking a night-time feeding again.  I don't mind,
    it was great when she slept through the night from 2.5 to 7.5 weeks,
    but now that I'm feeling back to my old self, I can spare 45 min. of
    sleep in the middle of the night, and not feel too badly in the a.m.
    This is a lot easier than having to get up and pump in the middle of
    the night, and I certainly prefer rocking with my baby than a cold pump, 
    and it's much easier to get back to sleep afterwards.   
    
    Letting the pump run longer after I'm empty, and doing massage while
    pumping also helps.
    
    The biggest help, though, has been acceptance.  I can't provide enough
    to eliminate formula from her diet when we're apart, but I'm doing what
    I can.  She is thriving (on Fri., she was 8.5 weeks, 24.5", and 10 lbs.
    11 oz - very alert and active, so she's certainly getting the right
    amount/stuff to keep her healthy).
    
    As my primary dr. told me, not everyone can produce that much.  After
    all, that is one reason many children didn't live long, or thrive in
    the days before formula.  That's what wetnurses were for.  Today,
    instead of a wetnurse, we use formula.  Since she is a mother of 5, and
    a grand & great-grandmother, and has been through it all herself, I've
    got to believe she knows what she's talking about.
    
    So, I'm giving her enough to have about 6 oz. of breastmilk and 6-8 oz.
    of formula while I'm at work.  She's healthy and happy, and that's what
    counts.  
    
    As an aside, she has been having trouble nursing, especially on one
    side at times for the last week.  Finally found out what it was - my
    little girl is going to be one of those that has teeth that move around
    early - her eye tooth on one side is up & down, poor little thing, and
    she's only 9 weeks old tomorrow.  She had to take after mom and start
    this kind of thing early....

Did anyone catch the news show last night, I think it was Prime-Time Live,
on breastfeeding difficulties?  Care to post a synopsis?  Did anyone tape
it?  I know it was probably quite sensationalized, but I'm interested in
what they had to say, since from what I heard of the previews, it covered
similar situations to what I went through with Erin.

If anyone in So. NH has a tape that they would be willing to lend out, please
let me know.  I'm on leave after today, so contact me at work today or after
at home at (603)471-0518

Thanks,
Jackie

    Basically they were talking about infants who did not thrive in the
    first week or two of life.  They were not saying there was anything
    wrong with the milk, just that the child was not getting enough to be
    nourished.  They stressed breastmilk was best (one mother pumped for
    her child, but fed via bottle).  One mother's child was diagnosed as
    having lost 20% of his birth weight and suffering severe dehydration. 
    It is unknown if there will be permanent brain damage - he's only four
    months old now.  Anther child suffered a severe blood clot in her foot/
    leg and eventually lost her leg.  I think these are extreme cases they
    pointed out.  One thing they did say is new mothers are being released
    too early and not being given proper follow-up care.  It is assumed
    everyone can breastfeed (the information you get from books, etc). 
    They suggested visiting nurses and getting your child to the pedi
    sooner.  They also suggested that when you have "such a good baby" the
    pedi needs to listen closely to find out why.  One mother said her baby
    slept so much and was easy to take care of when actually he was sleepy
    because he was not getting enough nutrition/hydration.  Many places
    offer breastfeeding support and mothers should rely heavily on that
    assistance.
    
    -s
    

    it is one of the reasons my midwife follows up daily for the first
    couple of days and weekly for the first 6 weeks after a birth.  
    
    meg

    
    I saw most of the segment as well.  Basically, the babies they
    discussed were affected (Ill) within the first 5-15 days of life.  The
    4 mos old referred to in the previous note was extremely dehydrated,
    admitted to the hospital, categorized as "could die any time" (they had
    another phrase for it), and the next day suffered a stroke.  The other
    baby had the blood clot in her leg, and it had to be amputated. 
    Apparantly the blood clots are a result of the dehydration.
    
    They also emphasized that all these babies had 'first-time' moms, so
    when the baby seemed "So Good!", the mom had nothing to compare it to,
    to realize there might be something wrong.  Coincidentally, they all
    lived a long distance from the nearest hospital.  
    
    They never said that breastfeeding was bad ... if you were to walk away
    with any negative from trying to breastfeed, it could only be said that
    because you're breastfeeding, you don't KNOW how much your baby is
    getting.  If they're formula-fed, you can clearly see how much they had
    to drink.
    
    They discussed signs of dehydration - the usual stuff, pinched skin
    that stays pinched (loss of elasticity), sunken eyes, not enough wet
    diapers (they said newborns should have at least 6 wet diapers/24
    hours, and at least one of those should be soaked), sleepy/lethargic,
    difficult to rouse (one woman had to wash her baby's face to get him to
    wake up).
    
    I think it was just to make people aware that it COULD be a problem,
    since it's not in any of the books, and the act of ignoring it is
    potentially fatal to the baby.
    
    

    Has anyone experienced clogged ducts?  I had one episode with my 
    daughter, Brittany, when I was breastfeeding her, but only one.
    This time with Mychal I have had three in three months.  I don't
    think it is mastitis (sp?) cause it usually goes away in a couple
    of days, but the pain is awful.  And it is only on one side.  
    
    I thought maybe cause he was favoring one side over the other and
    I wasn't pumping enough on that side.  But now I'm not sure.  My
    son drinks quite a bit (he's very big), so I wasn't sure if it
    was due to his persistance on that one side to get more milk.
    
    My sister says it's normal to have one breast produce more than
    the other. It happened to her.
    
    any suggestions?
    
    Rose

    Rose,
    
    I have had problems with plugged ducts with the last two kids.  
    
    The best things I can recommend are to nurse on that side as much as
    you can, and hot compresses on the side where it is plugged.  Pump
    that side first and last if your are expressing.  
    
    One caveat:  With the first time I had a plugged duct break loose, I
    wound up passing a good sized "pea" and wound up rupturing some blood
    vessles.  Pink milk and a stained bra is extremely frightening. This
    generated an emergenncy run to my Dr.  Probably a good thing to get it
    checked out if this happens to you, but not an emergency.  
    
    meg

I'm not sure I have many suggestions, but I certainly have *lots* of sympathy!
I had clogged ducts on and off (mostly on :-( for about the first 3 months.
Just when I was about to give up, I'd have a clog-free week that was so easy 
that I just persevered.  I blame mine on the tremendous stress that I was under --
new baby, my job at risk, parent just diagnosed with serious medical condition,
and my "first baby" (bassett hound) dying.  What helped me was hot compresses and
massage before a feeding and continuing the massage during the feeding.  Also,
I had to consciously change position at night whenever I woke up, and I stopped
wearing a regular nursing bra at night.  (Sometimes I would develop a clog just 
because I would stay in one position too long and compress some breast tissue.)  
I also tried to position Noelle such that her nose was pointing toward the 
location of the clog.  

Good luck!

- Deb B.

Boy, can I sympathize.  I was constantly dealing with plugged ducts during 
Kimberly's first seven weeks.  I pumped exclusively during that time because 
she wouldn't/couldn't nurse properly.  Once she started nursing exclusively, 
I never had another problem with them.  

I would suggest the hot compresses, and nursing rather than pumping the 
affected side as much as possible until the plugs are gone.  The baby is
much more effective at cleaning things out than the pump is.

Good luck,
Paula