Conference moira::parenting

    Not my kids!
    
    Mine always liked to spend every free minute with me until they were
    well into three.  It doesn't seem to have hurt either of my older two,
    and the youngest is still in the bundle baby stage, so we will have to
    see.  They are only small for a very limited amount of time, and trying
    to push them away to be alone just seems strange with the little time I
    have with them.  
    
    I do remember wondering if the clinginess would ever end, but Lolita
    (19) is in school 2000 miles away, and Carrie (8) likes to spend time with
    either friends, books, or the librarian instead of with me, so this
    time Ive promised myself I will cuddle this one as long as she needs
    it.
    
    Meg 

    
    Not mine either!
    
    Just this week I was amazed by the fact that Jason has gone up to
    his room to play with his toys by himself two evenings this week.
    Jason was *4* in September.   Up until now, he has wanted one or
    the other of us, usually me, to play with him all the time.   For 
    the most part, I figure it will be all too soon before he won't
    want anything to do with me, so I generally oblige.
    
    On the other hand, I think the ability to entertain oneself is
    a function of each child's personality.   We have friends with
    a son the same age who has entertained himself for hours without
    getting into mischief since a very young age.  Their second son 
    however is completely different.     
    
    Carol

    Just as someone mentioned we spend *ALL* of our free time with kids.
    Since they are at daycare/preschool from 8am to 5pm we want to spend as
    much of their waking time between 5pm and 9pm/10pm together. Avanti (4
    yrs) loves to play Boggle Jr., Memory and other games with either Mom
    or Dad. Neel loves to play with his toys but in the vicinity of Mom or
    Dad. They play well by themselves or with each other but want one of us
    to be in the room with them.
    
    We do not get much time to ourselves but we are capitalizing in this
    now since as they grow older they will prefer to spend time with
    friends.
    
    Shaila

re: .0

One comment first.  You can't raise any kid "by the book".  There may be
some generalizations that are true, but certainly the exact amount of time
you spend with your child is not one of them.  I think that it's probably
true that you should spend as much time with them as you can, but I don't
think that necessarily means ALL your time, or 30 minutes, or any set
number.  Spend as much time as you can.  You mention that you enjoy it; why
deprive yourself of something that you enjoy?

If your question is whether or not it's BAD for your son for you to be
spending all this time with him, I'd say no.  But I suspect that what you
are really saying is that you feel kind of burdened ("like a toy"), and you
are asking whether it would be harmful for you to want a little time for
yourself, even if you could be spending some of that time with your son.  If
that's the question, I'd also answer no.

One observation I make it that you don't mention a father or SO; if there is
one, then for certain you both don't need to spend all your time with them,
nor does it make sense that you spend all your time with him, but your SO
spends none.  In fact, imo, some one-on-one time is highly desirable.  If
you are a single parent, than it seems to me that's all the more reason for
needing a little time for yourself.  You do spend a lot of time with your
son, and you should not feel guilty wanting a break.

We never had to teach playing alone to our children.  But we also noticed
that there were times that they us to play with them, but we declined, and,
left to their own devices, they would find something to do.  The times that
such a scenario resulted in a tantrum usually indicated that the appropriate
activity was a nap.

I also agree that it's very much a matter of personality.  Our son has
always played by himself much more effectively than our daughter.

One of the suggestions in .3 might work for you, namely seeing if your
presence in the same room is sufficient.

Clay

Thanks for the response.  I'm happy to know that other kids prefer playing
with Mom and Dad, and prefer not to entertain themselves.

Although Max prefers that I not divert my attention from him, I have been
reading for about 15 minutes in the morning and again 15 minutes at night.
During this time, I tell him that I am going to read, and I'd like him to
play by himself for a few minutes.  I really only do this on the days that
I am home with him.  Last night, I spent the time watching him instead of
reading (although he didn't know this).  I noticed that he spent a great
deal more effort on playing.  He was doing the puzzle/toy that is a cone on
a base.  It has colored rings of different sizes and they all have to go
on the cone in the correct order.  Well, he did that puzzle over and over.
He knew the moment he put an incorrect ring on that it was wrong.  He even
had a system going where he would not try the incorrect ring twice.  Now
I KNOW if I was playing with him, he wouldn't have figured this out.  We 
would have spent time handing rings to each other, maybe giving them a spin
on the floor - or whatever.  

This leads me to wonder if he really DOES need this time to figure some things
out on his own.  And this is where my question really does come from.  Any 
feedback on this??

I agree that I can't raise any kid "by the book".  I read because I don't 
have a CLUE about a lot of things.  Can't really remember what two-year-old
problems really felt like, so I read, observe-observe-observe, depend on Max's 
pedi, depend on our parents, sisters, brothers, in-laws and anyone that will 
offer information.  Then I take what makes sense, and hopefully end up doing 
what's best for Max.  I am reading two toddler-related books now.  Both bring
up self-entertainment.  One of the books mentioned two - half hour sessions 
with Mom/Dad should be enough.  Not for me - and my 19 month old.

In reference to being max's "toy": That was a poor choice of words.  I really 
meant that since I am with him, I wonder if I am more of a crutch for him.  
Rather than explore things on his own, he depends upon me to play with him 
-- maybe even explore things for him??  Does anyone else experience this??

And I am married to Max's Dad, and he is the BEST, MOST PATIENT, MOST 
UNDERSTANDING Dad.  Max adores him, and he adores Max.  They do spend one-on-
one time together and Dad does LOTS of the child care chores.

                                                        

    You should not disregard your own wishes and desires, even in raising
    children. Since you said you really enjoy playing with the child, you
    have good reason to do so. As long as you give the child the
    opportunity to be on his own, he'll likely exercise that option at some
    point.
    
    You might say this is a corollary of not raising kids "by the book". I
    really don't enjoy "playing" with my children, so I tend to avoid that
    as much as possible. I enjoy being with them, so I have always included
    them in all aspects of daily life (except my sacrosanct hour of
    martini, NY Times and classical music before supper!). Chores, errands,
    projects, excursions, reading -- yes. Candyland, baseball, Clue,
    ggrrrrr, only the minimum I can get away with.
    
    But I wouldn't trade in the time with my 3 young kids for anything --
    I've always taken an average of 1 yr off for a new one (as soon as my
    wife could go back to work), and I work part-time to be with them.
    
    Kit

    
    	I also think that it has a lot to do with personality, I remember
    bringing Spencer to the office once when he was sick and I had to do
    some work and he played for *an hour* with the box to the tylenol and a
    spoon. He's always been that kind of a kid, little things hold his
    interest for a long time (the Doctors call it "extended focus").
    Griffin appears to be the same way.
    
    	I am of the philosophy that as much time as possible should be
    spent with the kids but if it interferes with the running of the
    household or your sanity (equally important) then we start setting
    limits. We had started a *horrible* habit of sitting on the end of
    Spencer's bed until he fell asleep, some nights it became a game and he
    would take up to an hour. Enough was enough, neither party was getting
    a positive experience out of this and so now Spencer gets a story or
    two, gets tucked in and we leave the room.
    
    	I have found that if I do not have enough time for myself (even if
    it is only 15 minutes of reading) I start to get resentful of
    *everything*. It's a lot easier to plan or sometimes force time for
    myself than it is to deal with the "boil over".
    
    				Wendy 

    Wendy,
    
    I know what you mean - I get like that too...If I don't get some time
    to myself, if things start falling behind at the house, I get resentful
    of EVERTHING and EVERYONE...But I never realized that it was 'normal'.
    I was starting to think that, at times, I wasn't cut out to be the
    'perfect_mommy_housewife' that I always have wanted to be.
    
    It's hard working 8 hours, travelling 2 hours, keeping a clean house,
    cooking dinner, playing with your kids and getting enough time to
    yourself.  
    
    

    
    
    My son is also 19 months old.  I, too, work 32 hours a week, but over
    a 4 day period.  Leaving Friday and weekends together.  My husband is
    away many days in a row because of his work, so Taylor and I spend
    many hours together.  
    
    Thing is, we all need time to ourselves.  I used to feel guilty that
    I would not do the right things when it comes to my son, but it has
    all worked out as he gets older.  I used to worry about when he'd
    sit up, talk, walk...socialize with other kids...but it has all
    eventually come to pass and Taylor seems just fine.  It's ME that's
    being the 'basketcase' worrying I'm doing it all wrong sometimes.
    
    Kids need to know they can play alone, I've come to understand it
    develops independance, which to me is very important to their own
    self-esteem.  I am never out of earshot if he calls '...mommy?..'
    I will be there...but I do need time alone, to do my thing, or 
    cook or clean or shop.  He is just himself, and we work it all out.
    
    There are clingy days, so I figure what else can I do?  There are 
    days he's off and playing alone, aaah, a blessing...to be able to
    sit and read or have a moment to catch up on the phone.
    
    So, I guess what I'm saying is don't get too involved in how much
    or how little.  It's a cumulative thing at best...IMHO ;).  
    
    I've been told to remember that I matter too, so remember that your
    time still counts, and when you can, enjoy it.  You'll find it's
    a better relationship in the long run than if you begin to (perhaps)
    resent the hold your child has on you.  Not that that's what you're
    feeling, you've said you don't mind playing with him...but after a
    while, you may...we are ONLY human after all.
    
    Good luck!
    Deb

    This note caught my eye!   I was just wondering if people notice if the
    "order of birth" influences whether or not their child plays by 
    themselves.   My neice and my first son have a difficult time
    playing by themselves - constantly asking for someone to play
    with them.  In my son's case, we always spent a GREAT deal of time
    playing with him until the last few months.  We tried to get him
    used to playing by himself before my baby was born in September, but
    for the most part if we're not playing with him then he usually just
    lays around and does nothing.   Now my nephew (the second child) has
    always enjoyed playing by himself, but I wonder if this is because
    his Mom just didn;t have the time to devote undivided playtime
    attention to him like she did with his older sister.  It seems to
    me that a child's ability/desire to play by themselves has alot to
    do with how much time we as parents allow (make?) them play by
    themsleves when their very young.   Sorry for the rambling thoughts!
    Does anyone have suggestions for helping a toddler learn to play by
    themselves???!!!    Lila
    

    Both in my case and in the case of my daughter, as first children
    we did pretty well occupying ourselves. Charlotte does not have 
    many children her own age around, but is pretty self sufficient.
    Although she does get a lot of attention, when we are busy she does
    well by herself.
    I find some of her favourite things are contructive toys, be they
    the russian-doll-type barrels that nest, or our large plastic container
    collection which she loves to take apart and nest in new and different
    ways (with lids, etc).
    I think it has much to do with the nature of the child. Some of us
    become adults who need to be in the company of others to enjoy
    themselves and others really enjoy hobbies and pastimes that require
    isolation. I don't think it depends on attention from parents.
    
    Monica

I'm fairly certain that many psychological studies have found significant 
birth order dependent differences, but I'm not sure whether or not playing 
alone is one of them, or if there is some underlying cause of the 
differences.  Anecdotally, your theory is true of me and my older sister, and 
of my two children.

Clay

 

	Lila,

	My daughter (first born) can entertain herself quite well.  She
	prefers to have us in the same room as her, but doesn't usually require
	that we play *with* her.  The biggest exception to that rule is 
	evenings, when we haven't seen each other all day.  Then, she really 
	wants attention, and we definitely don't mind giving it to her.  
	After dinner, it's all Emily's time until bed.  Dad usually chases
	her around a bit, tosses her on the couch, plays "keep away from
	Mommy", then we trade off reading books to her until 8:00.
	On that one night a week when my husband and I don't have much more than
	15 minutes to spend playing before getting down to business, we
	let her watch Barney or Sesame Street, and she wanders back and
	forth from the living room to the kitchen (checks to make sure Mom's
	still there, asks for some juice, goes back to hear another song).

	I don't know how to teach that to kids, I just feel blessed that
	my daughter's that way!  
	
	Yesterday at breakfast, after getting tired of sitting in her high-chair,
	she amused herself with a small gift box for about 15 minutes.  It had
	contained some money from her great-grandmother, but was empty when
	I gave it to her.

	Karen

    
    
    My two kids are like day and night when it comes to self entertaining.
    
    The older one always needed mom or dad to play with or to entertain
    him.  Even as an infant he'd get cranky or upset if we didn't "walk"
    around with him, he needed to keep moving/new scenery all the time.  
    Action Jackson!  We obliged him (not always so happily, it was very
    tiring!)  From then on he's been on the go.  Do this with me, do that
    with me, take me outside, chase me, let's play frisbee, baseball, etc.  
    Wasn't great at exploring on his own.  Needed prompting to find things to 
    do.
    
    He's better now, at 4 yrs old.  But still is a very socially oriented kid.
    With him, we think it comes down to the fact that he likes the company of
    people and prefers the social interaction.  But at least now he'll go
    off and find things to do here and there without needing us to prompt
    as much as before. 
     
    
    The younger one, has been one to occupy his time on his own.  He does
    it well.  Loves to look at books, build with toys, find things to do on
    his own.  Checks in with us once in a while if we're not playing with
    him at the time.   They've noticed at daycare that he likes his own
    space.  He'll ask to go in the play pen just to have some alone time.
    He likes playing with the older one but will be just as content playing
    next to him or next to us.   He's always been a self-soother and 
    resourceful kid (he's 2).
    
    
    I think it may have much to do with birth order (my older sister and
    I followed this pattern too).  
    
    
     Now if only they would play "nicely" together for a larger portion of
    the time!  Sometimes I think my name should be referee! 
    
      NF