Conference moira::parenting

    But they didn't compare it to diapers washed at home, using well-
    water and septic tanks. Not that many people want to do that anymore,
    but I have heard of some new inventions to make that easier (a special
    washing machine that separates the "poops" out and washes). 
    
    Interesting article. 
    
    Cyn

    According to Better Homes & Gardens magazine, if you live in an
    area that is prone to drought, disposables may actually be more
    environmentally sensitive than cloth.  Just another factor to
    consider.
    
    Another thing is, cloth diapers make GREAT dusters, wiping rags,
    etc., etc., etc. .... try doing that with a disposable :-)

    
    
>    Another thing is, cloth diapers make GREAT dusters, wiping rags,
>    etc., etc., etc. .... try doing that with a disposable :-)
    
    
    
    	I like to use the first diaper of the morning (the really sop'd one
    they've had on all night) for a door stop or paper weight.....:*)
    
    

    I love the fact that this topic no longer starts a long argument
    between the pro/con factions! (I used to be one of the worst!) I think
    this shows that people understand that everything has tradeoffs and no
    single environmental practice is "good" while the others are "bad" -
    it's not that simple. Also, I feel very comfortable with the way we
    mix the use of cloth and disposables in our house. 
    
    Lucy

    I will heartily agree with Lucy -- its actually quite tough to 
    measure ALL of the environmental impact each choice may have. 
    I personally still have the "I am throwing something away" guilt when
    it comes to disposables, but I will use them when going out to where I
    will have to change the baby. Otherwise, I find that the cloths are not
    as much of a bother that I thought they'd be.
    I think the bottom line is lets just be rational....
    
    Monica
    

As a user of disposables, with the same occasional pang of guilt over the en-
vironmental disadvantages, I decided to try out the latest newfangled diapers:
Huggies UltraSlims.  They are extremely "thin" compared to the regular Huggies,
and I was skeptical about their effectiveness, but I have been very pleased
with them.  We still use the thicker ones at night, for trips, etc. but I find
these to be at least a small step toward reducing the "bulk" of diaper waste
(they are *noticeably* smaller even when "full").

Anyone else have experience with these (or similar brands)?

Just FYI...

-Cori

    On a slightly different topic, how can I stop Marc's nighttime diaper
    from leaking over the top, and soaking the top front of his p.j.
    bottoms?  They don't make anything bigger than Walker-3, do they?

    Try a diaper doubler.  They are sold in the diaper section.
    We used these with success when Steven went through a phase
    of soaking during the night.
    
    Now, we can get by with putting the diaper on just before
    bedtime and changing him as soon as he gets up in the morning.
    
    Linda

    I put a pair of rubber pants over the pull-up/diaper and I find that
    works great. 
    
    Lynne

    
    How about having him go to the bathroom before he goes to
    bed and/or limit nightime fluid intake?
    
    Carol

    I need some basic info about a special kind of diapers.I saw it last
    week.It looks like underwear but is actually a diaper.My question is-is
    it quite expensive? do you have any idea who make them and if so-do you
    have a phone no. I can use for more info (like overseas shipping etc)
    r/ 

    Sounds like you're talking about Huggies Pull-Ups (disposable
    training pants).  I haven;t bought any but have heard they're
    expensive.   I have a box here that my mom got for my son -
    they're made by Kimberly-Clark corporation and the address is
    
    			Dept. HPU-SP 
    			P.O. Box 2020
    			Neenah, WI 54957-2020
    
    There is also a phone number (1-800-544-1847) but this is only in
    the continental U.S.
    
    Seems like there may have been some discussion about the effectiveness
    of these in one of the notes on toilet training - Hope this helps.
    
    Lila
    

    Has anyone heard of an item called the Diaper Genie?  I have, read
    about it, then bought it.  I think it is the best thing that keeps 
    odors out of a diaper pail/trash can.  The Diaper Genie is a pail that 
    seals the diapers individually and seals in the odors at the same time.  
    The pail stands about 24" tall and has a removable twist cover.  You 
    remove the cover, fold the diaper up and push it into the pail.  You 
    replace the twist cover, twist it two rotations and wha-la the diaper 
    is sealed in a plastic type bag.  
    
    When you can't add any more to the container it is full, we figured it 
    will hold about 20 diapers.  When it is full, there is a way to seal 
    the bag and pull out what looks like a string of deli hot dogs all strung
    together.  Throw it with the rest of your trash and NO ODOR. 
    
    Just thought I'd add this and see if anyone else has used it and what
    their comments are about it.  I'm not out to start a discussion about
    disposable vs. cloth, I saw that note.  I wanted to start a new note
    about this product. 
    
    Lisa Cozzens
    Netwks::Cozzens 
    

     
    Where did you buy it?

    I saw this in one of my magazines just last night, and wondered if it
    really worked well -or- if it was just another one of those things you
    buy and never really use.  Where did you get it and how much did you pay 
    for it.
    
    	Robin

    Please supply all retail store names by Email.  Do not put them in
    PARENTING.
    
    Laura
    co-mod

    
    	I have seen those things in magazines and feel guilty enough about
    using disposable diapers let alone (re)wrapping them in plastic before
    they are put in the town dump.
    
    	I am not going to tell anyone what to do but just think what an
    additioanl layer of plastic will do both to the degrading time of the
    diaper and the overall environment.
    
    
	Wendy who of late has been washing out ziplock bags to reuse

    
    Please forgive a nit and a digression on diapers, other trash, 
    and dumps.
    
    Actually, in most dumps, nothing degrades.  There isn't enough air
    circulation even to degrade food scraps.  Most modern dumps don't try
    to degrade.  They couldn't deal with the pathogens and chemicals in the
    runoff.  They line them well and then cap them.  
    
    I don't think a few extra plastic bags will make a difference.
    Disposable diapers themselves constitute a small proportion of a dump. 
    The most significant thing one can do to reduce dump volume is to
    recycle newspapers, as well as glass, cans, and plastics.
    
    Personally, though, I share your distaste for unnecessary waste and I,
    too, try not to use too many plastic bags.  I hear my frugal
    grandmother saying, "Don't be wasteful."
    
    Now back to our discussion of diapers.
    
    Laura

    I used cloth diapers with my first with the diaper wraps (cloth with
    velcro) when I first brought him home.  A few problems I encountered -
    velcro did not hold as well as pins and as my son got older he
    discovered the velcro made a really neat sound when he pulled the flap. 
    I never had any problems with leaks but make sure the wrapper does not
    run small or the velcro pops undone.
    
    LG

    I found diaper wraps to come in handy even with disposable diapers when
    Lindsey was between sizes, one too big and the other too small.  The
    wraps worked well when she wasn't moving but I found that she sometimes
    would pull them off when crawling. 
    
    Lisa Cozzens 

I have used several types of diaper wraps over the course of two cloth-
diapered babies.  I have found that BioBottoms diaper wraps are by far the
best.  They are significantly more durable, the velcro lasts much longer
than some other brands (Gerber wraps had the worst velcro), they are
generously sized and possibly most importantly, the larger sizes (from about
18 pounds or so on) have a snap to assist the velcro and to make the
wrap 'toddler-proof'.

In addition, I have found that BioBottoms' cloth diapers are much more
absorbant and durable than any others I have tried (I tried Gerber, Natural
Baby, Birdseye and some other one that I forgot).

I think that BioBottoms is located in California but they have an extensive
catalog.  I don't have their phone number with me but if you're interested,
send me mail.

 

    I saw the Diaper Genie in my "the right start" catalogue, it was
    around $30.

    Hello to all,
    
    Being a novice at all this parenting stuff, I have a few questions, now
    that we are expecting our first "blessed event" in eight weeks.  After
    some heavy duty research, and many hours of picking through notes
    files, we have decided to choose reusable cloth diapers to wrap our
    little "blessed events" behind in.
    
    We recieved a catalog today from The Natural Catalog, and it has all
    kinds of wonderful diaper options, style, and brands.  The question
    being, who do you experts believe makes the best diapers, wraps, and
    other "behind" neccessities.  From looking at this catalog, I see that
    you can use wool, cotton, terry, and God knows what else.  I would also
    like to know if one really does need to take out a home equity loan to
    be able to afford the initial investment required to keep our "blessed
    event" as dry and comfortable as possible.
    
    If you could help out a confused father to be, in a daze, I would
    greatly appreciate it.  If you wish you can respond by mail or phone.
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Allen L. Grooms
    "Confused Father To Be"
    
    Anglin::Grooms      Allen Grooms @MWO
    DTN 446-2520
    414-792-2520 

    We started charlotte off in the newborn disposibles (because our
    generic size diapers were TOO BIG! for that little bum, and, because
    they were interferring with the healing of the navel). Once the navel
    scab dropped off, we were up and running. We bought 2 dozen rectangular
    cloth diapers, and the "Nikky" brand diaper wraps (which had velcro
    closures). The only additional investment we have made since is, 3 more
    sizes of Nikkys and an additional dozen diapers, since we wash every
    two days, and with bringing Charlotte to the sitter we found that we
    were getting short.
    - advantages:
      - price!
      - comfort (never a rash!)
      - adjustability of fit for the diaper itself.
      - diapers will last through 2 or three children.
      - diapers have other uses (burp clothes, liners on the change table,
        and, baby rug in the bathroom, where she likes to tinkle before
        getting into the tub). The shaped diapers are NOT good for this.
      - after the diaper use, these can be made into cleaning cloths. One
        person I heard used them as a filling material in a quilt!
    
    disadvantages:
      - having to buy extra different sized liners. Charlotte is getting
        pretty big for the biggest size they carry locally. If we switch
        again, I'll have to order them.
      - dragging dirty diapers back from the sitters. We have a routine,
        and a nice plastic "mini-bucket" with a metal handle (originally
        an ice cream container).
      - Wash! Not so bad when you get used to it.
      - On trips you end up having to get the disposibles anyway, since
        the alternatives are somewhat inconvenient.
    
    I highly recommend the flat rectangular diapers for their versatility,
    and some form of "wrap around" cover; they are easier to put on and 
    take off. I found that the "breathable" types (and most are) are fine,
    I know Nikky makes them in all sorts of material, we've never had to
    go for anything special. The diapers are thick enough to keep her warm,
    so we don't need the sheep's wool ones or anything special.
    
    Monica
    (still on cloth after 15.5 months!)
      
      

    
    if you can find cloth with an extra layer down the middle, it will help
    soak up some of the moisture.
    
    Or, you can learn tofold your standard dipes to provide the same 
    
    Jamd

    
    I used cloth for my first, disposable for my second.  
    
    I think we started w/ about 8 dozen diapers, and bought a couple more
    dozen along the way.  By the time he was a year old, he had outgrown
    the cloth (pre-folded) diapers, so we switched to disposables.  I used
    rubber pants over the diapers (I don't recall them having the velcro
    diaper covers at the time).  Some things I learned;
    
    o He seemed to have a lot more diaper rash than when in disposables
    
    o The laundry was REALLY a pain, and making sure they got washed
    "quick" (maybe it was worse cuz it was summer).
    
    o The BULGE of the diaper made it difficult to fit some bottoms
    
    o I believe, the BULGE of the diaper made it more difficult for him to
    be mobile.  He never walked/crawled till after we switched to
    disposables.
    
    o By the time we got done buying diapers and pins and covers, and
    paying for the wash/dry I don't think we saved much money.
    
    o My mother/sitters HATED the cloth diapers, so we always ended up
    buying disposables for them anyway.
    
    If I was going to go with cloth diapers again, the biggest thing I'd
    change would be to get a diaper service.  I'm sure that a lot of his
    rash was because the diapers never really got "clean" enough, and
    almost all of the hassles would be eliminated with the service. 
    Combined with the "startup" expense of buying dozens of diapers, I
    think that you'll find a service is within pennies of what it would
    cost YOU to do them yourself.  They provide you with how many diapers
    you think you'll need, and a bucket to keep the soiled ones in.  Once a
    week (sometimes more often - check with your service), they come and
    pick up the dirty diapers/covers, drop off all fresh, clean, folded
    ones, and pick up their check!  I think a service is about $10.00/wk
    
    As for re-using them - after a year of constant use, I found that I
    wanted new (read: Not stained!) diapers for the second child.
    
    They do make GREAT cloths for burps or to nap on.  They can usually be
    had, on sale, for ~$7.00-8.00/dozen.  Normal price is more like
    $12.00/dozen.  I think that Curity makes the BEST/softest ones around,
    but I haven't been able to find them anywhere!!!
    
    Good Luck!!
    
    Patty

    We had service for the first month or so with my first (no washing
    machine).  Then we switched to disposables (this was 8 years ago). 
    Neither of my boys ever had diaper rash - luckily they have tough skin. 
    I would have attributed rash=wet skin with cloth.  The wetness stays
    against the baby's skin longer than with disposables.
    
    My sister also had a technique for wrapping hte diaper on her daughter
    (who also didn't walk until 13months - for whatever reasons - first
    thought to be diaper-related).  She would place the diaper under the
    bottom as usual, then bring it up between the legs and twist it a few
    times then open the top and pin it.  This way there was no big bunchy
    bulge in the center.  Might not work as well on boys 8^) - but it kept
    her dry and allowed freedom of movement (although she still wouldn't
    walk).
    
    -sandy
    

    I am a Diaper service fan.  There is nothing nicer than putting out a
    load of cruddy diapers on your porch in the morning and coming home to
    a bag of fresh, unstained diapers in the afternoon.  
    
    We pay about 45/month for 8 dozen diapers a week.  The major expense
    beyond that has been getting enough diaper wraps in the right sizes for
    Atlehi (She is growing much more quickly than the other two did, and
    diaper wraps are new technology for us.  Our service is willing to
    split deliveries between your home and daycare with no extra charge. 
    this is great as I haven't found a disposable that doesn't "rash" my
    kids.  
    
    Meg  

	Hi Allen,

	Here's my experience/observations on the subject:

Diapers
-------
	We have a service, which costs $13 - $14 per week for 6-8 dozen
(we keep changing how much lately).  This is for "pre-fold," and also includes
"rental" of 4 or 5 mediocre diaper wraps (we must wash ourselves), and a 
pail.  The diapers come each week, immaculately clean, in a plastic bag
which you line the pail with; at the end of the week, you just put out the bag.
	"Pre-fold" diapers are sewn double-thick, and then double again
down the middle.  They still require a fold or two to use.  (This is basic
stuff, but you said you were confused.)  As someone else said, "contour"
diapers sound good, but they don't work that well in practice.
	Rash: almost never, unless we forget to change the goober for 5 hours
or something.  Just a little cornstarch baby powder keeps things in check.
	A service is *definitely* worth it for two working parents.  We've
talked about washing our own, but I cannot honestly picture it.  The cost
is well below that of good disposables.

Wraps
-----
	In my opinion, just as easy as disposables.  Our daycare, babysitters,
etc. had never used them before, but had no problem once they were explained.
Lots of brands and differences in quality here.  I'll try to run down a couple
we've had experience with. 

	R. Duck: probably the best.  Good velcro, good containment.  These
are mail-order.  Send mail if you'd like me to hunt down the catalog.

	BioBottoms: Seem quite nice, but probably expensive.  We had one
hand-me-down wool BioBottom which I liked (outgrown now).  They're somewhere
in California; probably available mail-order.

	(mumble) [can't remember brand, available at Toys R Us]: Quite good
also.  More cloth and less plastic than R. Ducks.  Wide velcro for both 
the hooks and loops.

	Gerber: Mixed.  They had some good ones with a print on the outside,
which seem to no longer be available.  Now those printed ones have sewn-in
cloth diapers (=one use, then wash - no thanks).  Plain white Gerber cheapies
are pretty bad.

	General: We got good at this by trial and error.  Buy one of each
brand you're interested in, see how you like them, and then buy more.
Buy a few wraps bigger than you need.  B.E. will of course grow, plus you can
use larger wraps for double-diapering overnight if needed. 

Wipes
-----
	Somewhere in PARENTING we got the idea of using cut-up Handi-Wipes
and washing them.  These work quite well.  Reduce the risk of rash by using
them dry when possible, and keep a bowl of water for when it isn't.  (We all
use dry TP, after all.)  Wash them with the whites and they come out Ok.
Real Handi-Wipes brand hold up to washing better than others.
    
	Good luck,

	Brian W.  (90s dad with 10 months' experience, as of tomorrow.)

    My husband and I are currently expecting our first child on 
    January 3, 1994.  As part of all the preparations we are looking
    into diaper services in our area.  We live in Arlington Mass.
    
    We have received information from three diaper services:
    Sunshine, Dydee and a 3rd company that is located in Woburn 
    (unfortunately I can't remember their name).  All three
    services are within the same price range and we don't know 
    anyone who has used any of these companies recently.
    
    Has anyone had any experiences with these diaper services?  
    I would really appreciate hearing your comments.  If you don't 
    feel comfortable with commenting in the notes file, please send
    me mail at AKOCOA::DDAVIS.
    
    Thanks in advance!
    
    Donna
    
    P.S.:  If the Moderator feels this should be under the Diaper Note,
           please feel free to move it.
    
    

    We've used Dydee for almost four years (two kids) and like it.
    We're in Nashua, but I think it's the same company.
    
    		-John Bishop

    We live in No.Reading, MA, and have used DyDee diaper (based out of
    Boston) for both of our sons. Excellent service...they've never missed
    a weekly delivery, even in the worst snowstorms of this past winter.
    Don't know how they compare pricewise with other services, however.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Freddie

    I also used Dydee out of Boston for 3 months in early 1992 when my
    daughter was born.  Although they did show up every week as scheduled I
    found that they often miscounted diapers.  I was often short a few
    diapers.  Every week I had to keep track of how many dirty diapers I
    returned so I knew how many clean diapers I was suppose to get back the
    next week.  Every week I called and corrected them.  When we finally
    cancelled the service we were billed for about 30 diapers that they
    thought we should have returned.  We did manage to convince them that
    we didn't have them.
    
    A side note:  The have two sizes of diapers (newborn and regular) and
    they have two thickness of the larger diaper size.  At the end they
    were delivering me thick diapers for nighttime use and regular diapers
    for day use.

    Does anyone have any opinions/experiences with the following diaper
    services, servicing the Worcester area:

    	- Better Bottoms
    	- Cottontail
    	- Bottom Security

    You can reply by mail, if you wish at VSSPC::JANSON.

    Thanks,

    Chris

    Rowan uses the setup you mention except he has elasicated plastic pants
    - we tried the tie-on type but couldn't get the hang of them. He's only
    had bad nappy rash just recently (accompanied by diarheoa (sp?)), which
    we treat with an anti-septic barrier cream (the name will come to me).
    We've been letting him lie in the living room on a flat nappy on a
    plastic sheet to let the air get to him, and things cleared up within 3
    days or so.
    
    Which fold do you use for the nappy, we use the 'kite' which seems to
    keep the terry away from his legs which seem more sensitive than his
    bottom.
    
    Andy

    For Helen we use the "parallel" fold which produces a neat nappy.  I
    haven't tried the kite fold, because it tends to be recommended for boys,
    but am considering it for night-time, because she always ends up on her
    tummy these days.  I think she needs the padding at the front at night!

    I have now tried every shop in Reading for the breathable pants, with
    no success, so I've sent off for some catalogues from companies which
    advertise non-disposable nappies.  I'll let you know how I get on...

    Meanwhile Helen's back in disposables, pending further progress with 
    the terry technology.

    On a slightly different note, we also considered the all-in-one nappies
    with velcro fasteners which are widely available now, but decided to go
    for the traditional terries on account of:

    * Price
    * Speed with which they dry
    * Versatility - you can fold them in different ways, and use them for
      other things

    Diaper services weren't an option then, because there wasn't one in
    Reading.  One has appeared since Helen was born, and we may consider
    using it in the future (they seem to have a flat charge for a set
    number of nappies, which is very expensive for newborns who go through
    many many nappies, but comparable with disposables for older babies when
    the cost per disposable nappy is higher but the baby needs fewer nappies).

    Ali

    I've checked the name of that cream - Sudocrem from a local chemist, works
    wonders!
    
    We tried the velcro nappy things. We bought 3 of them, but they're such
    a price and they take so long to 'process' before re-use they weren't
    really practical. He's grown out of them now anyway.
    
    When Rowan had the bad nappy rash, we switched to disposables for a
    while cos he was getting through them so quickly, but creams shouldn't
    be used in conjunction with disposables (so the hospital said) because
    it bungs up the stay-dry lining. I think I might have discussed this
    before in this conference somwehere?! 

    I have been pretty much a Desitin Mom since Chelsea's birth.  
    
    About 5 months ago she suffered from a pretty bad rash and I was trying
    everything in the book to clear up her bottom.  I did the Aveeno baths,
    baking soda baths, Cortaid Cream, Lotromin, Bactroban, Neosporin,
    Mylanta, and of course, let her air that naked bottom as much as
    possible.
    
    I finally came across the miracle cream for us, its called "Sween
    Cream".  It can be purchased from most pharmacies and is
    over-the-counter.  I stopped using Desitin about 4 months ago and
    only apply a thin amount of the Sween Cream to her bottom during
    diaper changes.  Its a wonderful cream full of good stuff and smells
    great.  It's also very thin and vanishes easily into her skin.  You
    can use it on most parts of your body and I give her an allover 
    moisture treatment once a week after bath...her skin is so soft!
    
    Oh...I use disposables and have no problem with using this cream..
    or any other cream products for that matter.
    
    ..Lori 

    I noticed over the end of last week...both Huggies and Pampers
    are reducing the count of diapers in their packages.
    
    I was in Purity Supreme and noticed the same size packages
    with different counts on their packaging.  Some of the old
    stock was still on the shelves so it became quite obvious.
    
    In most cases they are reduced by 2 or 3 diapers, but one of
    the sizes has a whopping 10 diapers less and another had 8
    diapers less.   I've been running back with my coupons and
    buying them up.   I pointed it out to a woman in the aisle
    to be sure I wasn't just going "nuckin futs" (as one of our
    members mentions :-) ), and she agreed and threw a couple
    extra packages in hers.   The bigger difference seems to be
    in the bigger sizes, as if they don't already make you pay
    so much for so litte!
    
    				cj *->  

>    buying them up.   I pointed it out to a woman in the aisle
>    to be sure I wasn't just going "nuckin futs" (as one of our
>    members mentions :-) ),
    
    Hehehehehehehe!
    
    Lori B.

    
    
    There was a brief mention in here about a Diaper Genie where it
    compresses diapers and stores them without odor until the container is
    full. Well, it has been on the market for a while now and I was
    wondering if any more parents had feedback on it.  A Co-worker insists
    that it's a "must have" and I was curious to get people's feedback on
    it.
    
    Thanks in advance

    I'm on the MUST HAVE side!  I love it!  I have recommended
    to anyone who is even trying to get pregnant.  It is very
    easy to use, it really does cut back on the smells.  The
    refills are reasonable priced for how long they last.
    
    Go for it!
    					cj *->

    We have the genie and we used it all the time when our daughter was an
    infant.  The smaller diapers fit better through the opening at the top. 
    We always called them the "diaper sausages" cuz thats what they look like
    when you take them out. 
    
    We haven't used it for a long time now that Alyssa is older.  Especiall
    cuz Alyssa likes to throw her own diaper away and gets really upset if
    you do it.  She throws it in the trash and says bye-bye to it (shes 17 
    months old.  I throw the poo-poo diapers away and when I flick the 
    hard poo-poo in the toilet she waves bye bye to it also.  
    
    But, with the new baby due in September, we will be back in the 
    production of those sausages!
    
    

    
    
    I'll 3rd the Diaper-Geni!  
    
    Its great...no smells, easy to fill and empty! The cost of refills is
    pretty in-expensive also.
    
    The nice thing is it only has be be emptied about once a week....give
    or take a few days......
    
    Whom ever developed this deserves a medal!
    
    
    Anne Marie

    From an environmental viewpoint, the diaper-geni is a problem.  You 
    are taking the plastic diaper and draping it in more plastic before 
    you probably then put it into another plastic bag.  
    
    One of my friends recently had a baby and her husband told me that 
    they wanted one very much.  I knew he was very concerned about the
    environment and pointed this out to him.  They didn't get one.
    
    I only take my diapers out to the trash once a week and have never
    noticed an odor, except for on trash day.  I have the Fisher Price
    diaper pail, which does have an odor barrier.
    
    I also flush away the solid waste before I throw away the diaper. 
    Plus, my son is in daycare so his at-home diaper count is smaller
    than it would be if I did not work.
    
    Just another opinion,
    
    judy

    I still stand by my "diaper elves" the service we have stayed with
    through two children.  There is sometimes a smell associated with the
    pail when I open it on hot days, but generally the diaper pail
    deoderizer works great, and I can stick with cloth which is better on
    my kids butts.
    
    However different strokes for different folks.
    
    meg

    Another vote for the must-have category.

    I don't have one and probably wouldn't get one because for the amount
    of diapers we do "at home", it's just not worth it.  Only 2-3/day
    during the week, ~double that on the w/end.  BUT, the daycare has one,
    and thank GOODNESS! they use it!!  
    
    I don't know what the deal is, but it says on the box that it
    "packages" the diaper for better environmental disposal "later".  Maybe
    they're planning on scouring the landfills for diaper sausages ...(-:
    
    Let us know what you decide!!
    
    -Patty

    While we're on the Genie subject... Rich's Department Store
    has the refills on sale this week for $3.99.
    
    					cj *->

>>    While we're on the Genie subject... Rich's Department Store
>>    has the refills on sale this week for $3.99.

Burlington Coat Factory (exit 6, rt 3) has them regularly priced for about that
same price.

bjm

    
    I'm curious: Do you put the solids in the toilet before you dispose of 
    dirty diapers?
    
    Kathy

    
    I don't...
    
    but I'm lazy!
    

    I do, whether it is for the diaper elves, or when I just have to use
    disposables.  (traveling for 10 days wasn't conducive to cloth.)
    
    My reasoning is that putting untreated human waste in landfills is
    adding in one more disease vector to a planet with more than plenty
    right now.  
    
    meg

    I don't .... but I guess I'm lazy too ....
    
    I can't remember seeing anyone else do it either though ....
    
    -Patty

    I do only if they are solid.....of course, its alot harder if its
    alittle runny.
    
    

	I don't... though I'd almost never use the term "solid" to
	describe what my son does to diapers :-(

    I mentioned in an earlier note that I do.  I must admit that this would
    not have occured to me, except that my brother did it and I noticed
    it, and this was before I had kids 5 years ago.  I also read it on
    the instructions of diaper wrappers.
    
    Also, it doesn't work at all with young, breastfed babies.  There is
    just nothing solid to dispose of!  Now that my son is eating regular
    food, we are in a whole 'nother league ...
    
    My daughter was very considerate and was "poop" trained around 2.
    I didn't change a messy diaper after that, even though she wasn't 
    totally trained for another 9 months.
    
    judy

    I will Meg on the cloth diapers thing.  It isn't anymore expensive,
    it's usually cheaper in the newborn period.  It is much more
    environmentally sound, and my son came home from the hospital (where we
    were forced to use Pampers) with a tremendous rash.  I immediately
    switched him to the cloth diapers that were waiting, applied Desitin
    for two days, and never saw another rash until he started eating solid
    foods.  When he got one again, I called the diaper service, they picked
    up a single messy diaper, and changed his wash cycle/rinse cycle
    components to compensate.  Voila!  Bye-bye rash.  
    
    I swear by cloth diapers, and I *loved* the Diaper-Wraps I had for Joe
    those many moons ago.  These make your cloth diaper work pretty much
    like a disposable, in that you don't need pins or rubber/plastic pants.
    Wish I knew where to find them again.  Any cloth diaper mommies out
    there who've been using Diaper-Wraps recently??
    
    M.
    

    
    
    RE: -1
    
    I have seen the diaper wraps you mentioned at Tiny Totland in
    Manchester N.H.  I'm sure there are other places that have them.
    
    

    Yepper,
    
    My diaper elves carry one variety and the local discount stores carry
    lot of them.  No pins to worry about when you are half asleep in
    themidle of te night.
    
    meg

    Interesting, very interesting.  Just sent in the advance start-up fee
    for Tidee Didee service.  Come to find out that they now sell
    Diaper-Wraps ($4.95 ea.), whereas the local stores carry them at $5.95
    and $6.95 each.  They also will now deliver paper diapers, for all
    those paper fans.  In fact, they even claim to prepare the used paper
    diapers for recycling into other things, a nice boon to those who like
    the convenience of paper, but fear for the environment. 
    
    (Ugh -- can you imagine reading a newspaper used to be someone's diaper?!!)
    
    M.
    M.
    

    I have a diaper question...what are diaper wraps for? I just saw some
    for sale and wondered who uses them and why?
    
    Gail 

    Diaper wraps are covers for cloth diapers.  You fold the diaper in
    such a way that it fits inside and then apply to baby.  No need for
    pins, as the wrap uses velcro to close, and they are more breathable
    and comfortable than rubber pants.
    
    /Susan

    And no more stabbing yourself in the middle of the night when you
    change the little ones. 
    
    I used them with Atlehi, and wonder how I survived all those years with
    Lolita and Carrie without them.  They were even a benifit with potty
    training, as She could undo the diaper wrap when she was ready to
    train, and Frank and I weren't paying quite enough attention.
    
    meg

    Meg,

    Did you use cloth diapers? What are the pros and cons of cloth
    versus disposable? If you used cloth, did you a diaper service
    or launder your own?

    Thanks,

    Leslie

    Oh, and now that I've asked the question, I guess I should go back 
    and read the all the notes in this string. My questions may already
    be in there.

    Sheepishly,

    Leslie

    Leslie,
    
    I admit I am a cloth diaper bigot and a big fan of diaper services.  In
    my experience the DS was the same price as decent disposables, and
    doesn't have a lot of the environmental issues I have with disposables,
    since virtually no one disposes of the solid waste in an
    environmentally correct manner.  Your mileage may vary.  
    
    JMHO
    
    meg

    Although I'm a disposable diaper user, I did find the cloth
    diapers with the wraps a lot easier to use this summer when
    Angeline was in the lake.  Also, in her swimming class cloth
    diapers were mandatory, the wrap was a good bathing suit when
    her usual suit was dirty.  (Her usual suit had built in diaper).
    
    						cj

    Hi -
    
    I've been using cloth diapers with diapers wraps for Bridget. She's now
    about 10 weeks old, and I'm having trouble with the wraps. It seems
    that every time she has a bowel movement, it ends up all over the
    inside of the wrap and sometimes even leaks out around the legs. I'm
    using DIaperap brand wraps, which are waterproof on the inside and
    cloth on the outside. Is there a trick to putting on the wrap?
    Or, is there another brand that might work better?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kate 

    Kate,
    
    I used Gerber wraps, but found with some kids there isn't anything that
    will stop leaks from happening.  Are you still using the small size
    diapers?  you may want to move up if you are, and get a bit more lining
    to help reduce the ooze from spurts.  
    
    meg

    I agree with Meg - I had to stay one step ahead in terms of having
    larger wrappers, to minimize containment problems. :-)
    
    

    I just moved from the newborn wraps to the larger size, as Bridget is
    around 11 pounds. That's when the trouble started. SHe's also having
    fewer (and larger) bowel movements. I have a few of the Gerber wraps,
    and seem to have the same problem. 
    
    I'll give it some more time but I find myself using more and more
    disposables, at night and when we go out.
    
    Thanks for the advice.
    
    Kate
    

    Ah yes, I also remember going to disposables at night. That helped a
    lot.
    
    

    
    Help !!!!  For the last 5 nights, my daughter (6 months) has been
    waking in the middle of the night because she is soaking wet.  She
    is approximately 16 lbs so I recently went to the next step diaper
    16-? lbs.  I thought maybe they were too big so last night I went 
    back to the 12-18 lb diaper but she again woke soaking wet.  I am
    using the Pampers Premium and the Huggies Supreme.  Please, Please,
    any suggestions, advice, I need my sleep, and so does she.  Thank you.
    
    KC

    Have you tried Diaper Doublers?  It's like a sanitary napkin
    that provides extra coverage with a regular diaper.  I never needed
    them with my daughter, but with my son, I find them essential.
    
    You can get them at Toys R Us.
    
    Tara

    
    Are they cloth, do they stay on with velcro, or pins ?   I never heard
    of them but I'm willing to try anything at this point.  Thank you.
    
    KC

    We tried putting Aaron in the premium or supreme diapers through the
    night and had the same problem.  Try Luv's or the regular Pampers or
    Huggies and see if that makes a difference through the night.
    
    sandy

    
    The diaper doublers are disposable - they really seem just like a
    sanitary napkin.  I *THINK* that they tape in, but it's been a while.
    
    The problem we had with Jonathan, was not how MUCH he would wet, but
    how fast, and it would all leak out before the diaper had a chance to
    absorb it all - that was when the older-fashioned "thick" diapers
    worked better - they seem to absorb quicker.  A friend of mine used to
    use two disposable diapers together - no one ever had a clue HOW it
    worked, it just did.
    
    Good Luck!
    Patty

    I just saw that Huggies has new 'overnighter' diapers or something with
    a similar name.  I've never seen them before or used them but they
    might be worth a try.  I use one size larger at night for my son since
    he had a similar problem for a while and this seems to work.
    
    

If you're talking about the Overnights, those are the same as Pull-Ups, just by
a different manufacturer.  They're not for small kids.

Irene

    
    I just reread my note, she is soaking wet from the diaper leaking.
    Her PJ's and onesie both have to be changed.  Not sure if I was
    clear about that.  A few people suggested LUV's.   I'm going to try
    them for tonight.  I don't know if that will work, I'll let you all
    know.  I'm still open for all advice and suggestions.  Thanks to all.
    
    KC

    I double the "Diaper Doublers".  Chelsea had the same problem and they
    worked great for us.  They are just like a large sanitary napking
    (almost like the hospital maternity ones...long).  You don't tape or
    pin them in, they just lay down in the fold of the diaper and pretty
    much cover from back to front...length wise.  We always bought ours
    at the market in the diaper section.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    ...Lori

    
    When Bridget woke up at 5 AM this morn, her pj's and onesie were dry.
    I was so happy, gave her a bottle and she went back down.  I used
    LUV's for the first time last night.  I think I might also use the
    Diaper Doublers with them.  Thank you everybody, I hope she stays dry.
    
    KC

    
    Well, I'm back at square one.  I have used LUV's with and without
    diaper doublers, regular pampers with a diaper doubler, pampers
    premium, and huggies supreme.  I'm at a loss.  Last night I changed her
    right before bed, a LUV's diaper with a diaper doubler.  She woke an
    hour after I put her to bed at 9 PM, her onesie was soaking wet and was
    starting to leak through to her pj's.  I feel so bad for her, she's 
    exhausted and doesn't want to be up, she screams the whole time I'm
    changing her.  She woke again at 5 AM, soaking wet.  I don't know what
    to do.  This is so frustrating, I'm starting to dread night time
    because I know she will be waking just don't know what time.  I think
    I will call the pedi's office today and see if they have any
    suggestions.   Anybody have the same problem ?  I'll let you know
    what the pedi says.  Thanks to all who replied.
    
    KC

    Someone mentioned a nighttime version of Huggies (I think).  They
    really do exist for babies in size 3 and 4.  They're not the same as
    the pullups.  I don't know where you'd buy them, and I've never tried
    them, but they are advertised in Child magazine this month.  So you
    should watch out for them and let us know if they work!!
    
    sandy
    

I saw the Huggies nighttime, size 3, at Market Basket
in Westford last night.

Janice

KC, How about trying a slightly different tack?  If 
Bridget's soaking through that much diaper, she must
be letting go with an awful lot of pee... The sleep
experts I've read (including our pediatrician) agree
that, at 6 months, babies no longer require nutrition 
in the middle of the night for the well-being.  
I assume each time you've changed her in the night,
you've given her a bottle to sleep again, thus re-priming
the pump?  If you could eliminate that, and possibly
give her a bit more solids (rice cereal) and a bit less
milk/formula before putting her down, it might decrease
the soaking enough to let the diaper doublers do their
thing...

We used to use two (disposable) diapers, with a hole torn through the outer
cover in the inside one to allow urine to pass through.  Perhaps this will be
tight and absorbent enough for you?  It provides more absorbtion than diaper
doublers.

						Brian

    
    I'd definitely give the pedi a call and make sure that there's not
    something else going on "health wise".
    
    My only other thought would be to try to somehow encourage her to pee
    BEFORE she goes to bed .... let her splash in some water for a little
    while, ought to do the trick.  Then at least you're starting with an
    emptier bladder.  If she's too young to splash, then you could maybe
    run her hands under the faucet?
    
    

    
    Well, she has been dry for the last 3 nights.   We tried the Huggies
    overnights and she still leaked.  Now I change her right before bed,
    put on a Huggies overnight and I put a diaper doubler on the side of 
    the diaper that was leaking, then I put terrycloth underpants over the 
    diaper.  We also elevated the head of the crib on the advice of the
    nurse at the pedi's office.    The pedi offered me no advice except 
    for this, they said it appears I've tried everything else.  They advised
    not to put two diapers on her, something about her hips.    

 
  I'm mostly a read-only noter but I thought I'd share my recent finding
  regarding Luvs diapers.  Mods, I wasn't sure where to put this note
  so please move it to an appropriate topic if you feel necessary.

  I've been using Luvs diapers for some time now and I've been very
  pleased with them (and their low price :)).  After my most recent
  purchase (last week), I noticed the diapers have changed.  The pattern
  is different.  No problem, I thought...  I've found that the tapes
  aren't sticking as they should (and have with the previous ones).
  I had the "get what you pay for attitude" and was going to switch
  brands.  I called Luvs customer relations department to let them know
  that I was not pleased with the change in the product and was going to
  switch brands.  BTW, we are using size 4.  The representative was
  quite nice and immediately asked if I was using size 4.  She told
  me that they have been importing diapers from Europe to meet the
  US demand rather than not have them available at all.  The European
  version is different from the US version.  Hence, they are aware of
  a problem with the tape (size 4 anyway, not sure about the other sizes).
  She is sending me coupons for $3.00 off my next purchase.  She also
  informed me of how to tell if the package is an import.  Look in the area
  where the 1-800 customer relations phone number is.  At the end of the
  information there is a code in capital letters (EU = Europe).  Following
  that the information says "Made in Germany by Procter & Gamble".  I
  personally never look there before but I will now.

  FYI,

  Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    Thats interesting, although we don't get 'Luvs' in the UK, I'd never have 
    realilsed that the tapes were different between Europe and US.  
    
    There are some brands here that have tapes which give a parent nightmares 
    when you try to stick them down.  Parent classes always advised to avoid
    getting cream/lotion/talcum powder on your hands when changing nappies
    as it reduced the stickiness and the nappy was wasted - then came
    "micropore tape" (surgical tape? -similar to band-aids but without the
    inner dressing) and no more wasted nappies. :-)
    
    Jackie                       

The premium brands in the U.S. use Velcro or Velcro-like tabs these days,
so there's not much problem getting ointment and stuff on them.

    re -1
    
    I wish they would follow suit here, and if it wasnt for a move
    overseas soon, I'd probably write to the manufacturers and suggest it.
    
    Jackie

    
    	Thanks for the information, Cheryl!
    
    	Karen, on her way to buy diapers tonight ...