Conference moira::parenting

    While this is a big adjustment for my husband and me, we think it is
    best for our daughter (age 2) to call adults by their surnames.  We
    will make an exception for close friends, whose names will be prefixed
    by Aunt or Uncle.
    
    Just imagine - you belong to a church or synagogue with many other
    people.  On any given typical occasion, you greet one or two dozen
    co-members.  The kids are running around underfoot at the social.  Do
    you want all these little kids calling you by your first name?  Do you
    want your little one calling other adults  by their first names?
    
    L

    Actually not only do I want kids (and adults) to call me by my first
    name but I also insist that my nieces and nephews call me by my first
    name and not by "Aunt".

    I would always ask someone else how they preferred to be addressed and I
    would not presume that they would want to be called by their first
    names.

    I even toyed with the idea of my children calling me Wendy instead of
    Mother, Mom, or Mommy. I gave in though as it just seems easier to
    refer to myself as Mommy in front of Spencer and Wendy in front of
    Marc.

    Let's face it, basically I'm a frustrated child of the '60's. ;-)


    			Wendy

    
    We call all adults by their first names.  I think it's false
    to have close friends prefixed by aunt or uncle because they
    are not related.  My parents did that with one set of their friends
    and it was very confusing.  Even now, I think of them as Aunt Sally
    and Uncle Mike but to explain that they are not related to me sounds
    silly even now.  (this is just my opinion from my childhood experience)
    
    Our family is informal and so is our circle of friends.  If we had
    friends that wished to be called Mr. or Mrs., we would abide by that.
    (My friend's mother introduced herself to me as Mrs. Street so that
    is how I think of her and that is how I would introduce my child to
    her).  Otherwise, we will use first names.  I don't believe in
    different etiquette for children and adults.  All should be
    treated with respect.

    We have friends from the Southern U.S. Ali refers to their good
    friends as Miss Donna and Mr. Pete. Acquaintences of the child (for
    example, work friends) are referred to as Mr. Simonfy or Mrs. Fibish.
    It might be quaint but I like it.
    
    We do the same thing with Marisa. One exception, she calls her
    daycare provider Aunt Laura actually she called her Auntie.
    
    Donna

    I'm also in the "first names" camp.  I definitely prefer that children
    refer to me as Tracy rather than Ms. Holmes.  I guess I don't want to
    be distanced from them.
    
    As children, my sisters and I always referred to my friend's parents and
    my parent's friends as Mr. and Mrs., but I don't think that it made me
    respect them any more than I would have if we used first names.  It was 
    confusing to try to map the first names my parents used for these people 
    to the last names that I was supposed to use.  
    
    It also makes it difficult now that I am an adult.  One summer I worked 
    at my Dad's company where everyone was on a first name basis, and I felt 
    stupid being the only one referring to the people I knew as Mr. So-and-so.
    Same thing with my parents' friends that I see ocaisionally.  It's really
    strange to be a thirty year old and still be referring to Mrs. Smith
    and Mr. Jones, but it's ackward to make the shift now to first names.
    
                                                       Tracy

We struggled with this issue for a while. 

The rules used to be so simple: all adults were referred to formally as Mr/Mrs
so-and-so.  But these days it really seems to vary from person to person.  Some
adults prefer to be addressed by their first name while others prefer to be 
addressed more formally by their sur-names.

Our approach recently has been to introduce adults using their sur-name.  Most
people will immediately respond with "Oh no - please call me Jane/John/whomever -
I'm much to young to be a Mr/Ms so-and-so".   

I think it's easier for a person to tell you to be less formal than it is
for somebody to ask you to be more formal.  That's why we start with the formal
approach and work back to first-names if appropriate.

Just my .02

- Carol

    We taught the boys to use "Mr. and Mrs." when they were three and
    four...  I think...  Hard to remember.  My friend's son made the switch
    when he was in the first grade.
    
    We've taught them to do as the adult wants, though.  For example, 
    my husband calls his grandmother "Nanny".  She asked the boys to
    call her Mimi, which is what adults normally call her.  So our rule
    is to use surnames, unless the adult explicitly tells them otherwise.
    
    It's a sign of respect, and it's ingrained in me. 

     We're in the middle somewhere.  When we first introduce an adult to our
kids, we introduce them by their surname.  When people become good friends,
our kids start referring to them by their first name.  I'm not sure how that
process works, but it has.  I think it may have as more to do with the
frequency of interaction (and therefore the comfort level) that Gary and Lara
have with the adult than it has to do with any conscious decision on our part
to say "It's OK if you call Mr. ______ "Jack."  It probably also has
something to do with how my wife an I refer to them.
     There are two "honorary" Aunties and one honorary Uncle.  It caused some
confusion when they were figuring out what aunt and uncle meant literally,
but the confusion was minor and short-lived.  For sure it's inexact, but I
think it's nice to have some honorary title for people who are special to
them and to us.
     Day care "teachers" were always referred to by their first name.  Not
sure why, but I think it was how they introduced themselves, how they
referred to themselves in front of the kids, and how the other daycare
teachers referred to them.
     Once they started school, I've felt more comfortable referring to their
teacher by their surnames.  It seems kinda formal, but I guess I'm
traditionalist enough to think that it's good for the teacher to be an
authority figure, and, well, a teacher, than the more the friend, nurturer
type of relationship I associated with daycare.  Also, the teacher have
tended to refer to themselves by their surname.

Clay

We seldom use first names in French or German.  In fact it would be VERY 
impolite in many cases to do so.  In English speaking society we are less 
formal.

My children tend to call the people that I call by first name also by their 
name if they are English speaking.  The neighbors are all monsieur or madame
and surname.  Even at the school I call all the English teachers by their 
surnames, even the ones I know fairly well.

It was cute seeing my children trying to figure out how to refer to people in 
the U.S. this summer.  They basically tried the translation route and then 
watched and listened to what other people said and followed suit.

I always found people very adaptable to formal/informal means of address.  At
CERN where I used to work you would see two Germans who'd probably known each
other for 20 years talking together saying "Sie" and Herr Schmidt, etc.  An
English speaking person would join the group and they'd switch to Emglish and
it would be "Hans" and "Rudy".  The English person would leave and they'd 
continue on a first name basis for a while in English until they'd realise there
was no English speaker present.  Then they'd be back to formal German with
last names.

In French there is actually a "formal" little ceremony called "tu-toier"
(pronounced something like too-twa-yeh) when two people agree to switch to the
informal pronoun and use first names.  Usually involves a bottle of wine :-)

In non-Digital business relations it is ALWAYS surname, especially in French.
Even in dealing with French DECies that I don't know, I will use the formal
pronoun until they address me informally.  Better safe than sorry :-)

Cheryl

My son, aged 10, calls adults by whatever that adult prefers - first names
for our adult friends and co-workers (since DEC is a first-name-basis
company), Mr., Mrs., Ms. so-and-so for his friends' parents, and as for the
synagogue, our rabbi goes by "Rabbi Seth" and the cantor as "Wendy", so
there's no big formality there, although teachers are Mr. and Mrs.  Sean
seems to have it down pat pretty well as to what to call whom, and again, I
think it comes from discovering what each person or group of people prefer
- that's certainly the road to follow in my opinion and from my experience.

Most of Sean's friends attempt to call me Mrs. "something", but they often
use Sean's last name, which is different from my last name which is
different from my husband's last name, not to mention considerably longer
than all of the above, so I just tell them to call me Caryn.  It works for
me and I think it helps the children to feel more comfortable around me.  I
have not had any problems with them being less respectful because of using
first names.

~C

    It sure is a puzzlement...
    
    I wanted James and Hollis to call adults "Mr./Mrs.", but every
    single one of my neighbors asked us to have the kids call them
    by their first names.  I.E., Mary, not Mrs. O'Brien; Paul, not
    Mr. Newman (I am not kidding!).
    
    Our good friends, Bill and Denise, are Uncle Bill and Aunt Denise.
    Time enough to explain that when they're older....My dad's good
    friend and his wife were always Uncle Dick and Aunt Olive to us.
    In the south, I think that's considered a "courtesy" aunt or uncle."
    
    James calls his nursery school teacher "Mrs. Sennott."  However,
    our pastor (who's 5 years younger than I am!) is "Reverend Lisa"
    (mostly because, as she herself admits, "Schoenwetter is a long
    last name for a little kid.").  
    
    I don't really mind if my kids' friends call me "Kate," although 
    I always dreamed of being referred to as "Mrs. N." :-)
    
    I do like the old Southern custom of "Miss Firstname/Mr. Firstname."
    When my dad was dating the woman he eventually married, my sister
    taught her kids to call her "Miss Estell," since Estell felt that
    "Mrs. Kalosky" was really pretty formal for someone who was going
    to join the family and neither she nor my sister wanted the kids
    to call her by her first name.  Now my nieces and nephews call
    her "GramEstell" (pronounced as if it were one word).  They all
    remember when our mother, their biological grandmother, was still
    alive, and, as the oldest one put it, "To me, there's only one
    Grandma Fagan."
    
    Whew, that was complicated!  I say, do whatever your friends/family/
    associates insist on.  I do prefer to start with formal and move to
    the informal.

We take the approach that an adult that the child does not know should
be addressed with a title.  Someone that is close to the family, who
are "like" an Aunt or Uncle is addressed as a courtesy "Aunt" or "Uncle".

Adults, when referred to 3rd party as it were, are referred to formally
or for example, friends parents ... as Z's mum and dad.

Only on direction from the adult are my children allowed to refer to
an adult on a familiar basis.

It is tough.  One of our neighbours' children addressed us for the longest
time as "Jennifer's dad" or "Jennifer's mum"!

Stuart

I'm called by my first name, but like the sound of "Ms. duBois."
So far our 4 year old son calls all of our friends by their first name, and
his teachers by "Ms. firstname".  

I have thought about introducing myself as Ms. duBois to our son's friends,
but think it might cause too much confusion.  Since both my spouse and I
are women, we would both be Ms. duBois, so our son's friends wouldn't be
able to easily differentiate between us when speaking to him.  Currently
his friends call us by the names that he calls us by ("Mama and Mumsy") or
by our first names.

     Carol

    Everybody in our neighborhood is "Vinnie's mom" or "Derek's dad"
    or "Steven's mom" or whatever.   "Hi, this is Steven's mom, is
    Steven over there?  Good, can you send him home?  And Derek's mom
    is looking for him, so can you send him home too?"
    
    --bonnie

    A popular babysitter used by many of my neighbors in named Tracy. 
    Hence, she is known as Tracy the Babysitter and I am...
    
    Tracy the Mommy
    

I'm really surprised that most people today or from this notesfile, prefer
first names only with Aunts and Uncles.  I just became an Auntie and I love it.
My soon to be three year old calls all her aunts and uncles, Aunt (Susan) etc.
In fact I have one sister and my husband has two and my daughters favorite aunt 
is her "Auntie".  She knows she is Auntie Susan but she calls her "Auntie" and
Auntie is her favorite.  I think it makes it special.

Purely out of respect for the other party, we ask our 2 yr old son to
address adults as Mr. and Mrs.  If the other party would rather be called 
by first name, so be it, but we allow THEM to make the choice as it's not 
our decision to make.

There is no Auntie or Uncle, unless the person is truely an Aunt or 
Uncle. Why confuse the issue?

Norma

    With my surname, Schlickenmaier, we all usually go by our first names. 
    It is really funny when the whole Schlickenmaier gang gets together for
    Christmas dinner though; when someone says "Mrs. S" all four of us
    Schlickenmaier women look up, even though we are pretty sure they are
    talking to Grandma Schlickenmaier.
    
    My four year old knows his name is Alexander Jordan Schlickenmaier but
    he is learning to sign his name "Alex S."  I don't have the faintest
    idea when he will be able to spell Schlickenmaier.
    
    On another note... I grew up in a military family and every member of
    the armed forces we encountered was addressed by his rank (except for
    my father, of course).  Even as young children we called them Sergeant
    Jones, etc.
    
    It was quite an adjustment when I started working (as an adult) in a
    civilian environment when the VP would say, "Please call me Stu."  I
    think I finally have it down now... I've been working/living outside of
    the military environment for 15 years now.  :-)
    
    Kathy

    I just read this string and wanted to adda few comments from where I
    see it.
    
    AJ is being brought up to address all adults by Mr, Mrs., Miss unless
    the person says otherwise.  We tried to have him call his Godfather and
    Godmother as Mr. and Mrs. _____, to which his Godfather said that
    "wasn't his name, that Mr._____ was his father's name, please call me
    TOM!", so he does.  His daycare provider is, and always have been addressed
    by her first name.  (Does anyone remember my horror story in the last 
    version of the NEW daycare teacher changing the kids very suddenly from a 
    first name basis to Miss or Mrs and a VERY complicated last name??)
    
    He has one person who is not related that he calls Auntie, simple
    because it was cute when he was an infant, and has simply stuck.
    
    Recently I became involved in a group for young girls ages 11-21, as a
    member of the Advisory Board.  In this group there is NO question, ALL
    adults are referred to a Miss, Mrs,Mr, or even as Mom, Mum, or Dad. 
    Interestingly enough, I and a few others chaperoned the girls last
    Saturday night to an event.  I was so UN-used to being called Mum Tripp
    that I think the girl had to call me several times to get my attention.
    It's just the way this particular organization teaches the girls
    respect of adults.
    
    Lyn

The previous base note made me think to enter this, but I didn't want 
to step on her topic by making it a reply to that.  

What do your children call your adult friends?   your neighbors?   

As background, my husband and I do not want our daughter calling 
adults by their first names only, period.   However, I'm beginning to 
think we are a distinct minority in this.       Where we are so far is:

- Godfather and wife,  Godmother and husband, are "aunt" and "uncle".  
We are that close to those people (we are godparent(s) to their kids),
it feels right, they are ok with it. We want her to have that level of
relationship with these people. 

- What about other close friends?   Where we are so far is Mr. (firstname) 
and Miss (firstname),  from the Southern tradition (we are not southern, 
but like the approach).    We like it because there is some level of 
adult recognition, but not so formal.     Feedback?     Some of these 
friends are already using straight first names for us with their kids, 
so I know we are going to be in the minority.

- Casual acquaintance or strange adults are obviously Mr and Miss/Mrs (lastname)

- What about neighbors?    We were brought up Mr and Mrs (lastname), 
but if their kids are going to call us firstname, then do we push for 
what we want (last name),  or compromise on Mr (firstname) and Miss (firstname)?


All I know is that every kid we ever run into in the neighborhood calls 
us by our first names.    I personally dislike that, but I'm not their 
parent.  Are we the only people left who feel this way?     How are 
you handling it?  

	I'd like some answers on this as well!  I always called adults by
	Mr/Mrs Lastname when growing up myself.  In fact, when I meet them
	now as an adult, I feel uncomfortable calling them by their first
	names even though they would prefer that now so I usually call them
	Mr/Mrs Lastname as well!  My daycare provider has all her kids calling
	her by her first name.  

	The 1990's are alot less formal than the 1970's (it seems to me).
	Now, your coworkers are called by their first names.  Last names are
	never used but this was not true several years ago.  So, it seems
	to make sense that children refer to adults by their first names as
	well.  I'm just not sure I'm comfortable with that.  At the same time
	I would find it funny/strange to have my daughter calling my best 
	friends using their last names.  Hmmm.... this is a dilemma.

	When I met my husbands parents for the first time, I used Mr/Mrs
	with them as well (strange... considering I was 25).  When we got
	married, I had a hard tim converting to first names (and I refused
	to call them Mom/Dad since those names I reserve for my parents).

	So... this leads me to my question, on top of the basenoters question.
	What do your kids call their grandparents?  My in-laws do not care
	what they are called so for them it will be Grandma/Grandpa. My 
	mother cared though... if Grandma were used there would be Grandma
	Luby and Grandma Healey and she didn't want to be known as Grandma Luby 
	(because her hated MIL had that title) so she chose Nana.  They 
	haven't come up with anything to Lauren to call my father though.

	Karen

    I don't really know what my kids call the parents of their neighborhood
    friends...I know that my son has has a friend since K (4 years now) and
    he calls his parents by their first name.  Since we are also part of a
    close-knit church family, my kids call the older adults and usually
    their teachers by Miss/Mr Firstname.  Now my youngest referred to
    someone yesterday as Mrs. Davis and I didn't know who he was talking
    about - it was his Sunday School teacher (with whom we have been
    friends for awhile).  My kids were "day-cared" by a woman who insisted
    all children call her Mrs. Lastname.  I don't want to be that formal,
    but it is kind of a nice feeling when the neighborhood kids call me
    Mrs. Dismuke...although I must admit sometimes I don't realize they are
    talking to me. 8^)  I always refer to neighborhood people as
    "so-and-so's mom/dad" or Firstname.  
    
    I would suggest teaching your kids (is it too late to teach mine?)
    to use the formal, and letting the person decide.  As your relationship
    with them may tighten, what your kids should call them may change.  I
    would leave it up to the person being addressed.
    
    -sandy
    

    I use the approach mentioned in -1.  My kids are to first address
    any adult as Mr/Mrs/Miss Whatever.  Then, if that adult asks to
    be called by his/her first name, it's okay.
    
    As for grandparents, my children are lucky enough to have a great-
    grandmother (Nana Leary) on my side, plus a grandmother (Nana or
    Nana Fran).  In my family, it seems the primary aunt/grandmother
    gets called just Auntie, or Nana.  The secondary ones get the
    additional name clarifier...Nana Leary, Auntie Alice, etc.
    
     My ex-husband's mother asked to be called Granny. I remember when
    the first grandchild was born, we asked my mother what she wanted to
    be called and Granny just seemed to scream "gray hair in a bun" to her.
    She just couldn't relate to that image.
    
    My aunt Alice has her grandchildren call her a combination of
    Nonna (Italian grandmother) and Alice - Nala.
    
    A friend's mother, named Millie, had her grandkids call her Mimi.
    Kind of like Meme (French grandmother) and Millie.
    
    When my sister-in-law was dating her husband-to-be, he was 
    introduced to the nephews as Aunt Sue's buddy.  So they ended up
    calling him Uncle Buddy (after Sue and he were married).
    
    Just some ideas...
    
    Noranne
    

<    introduced to the nephews as Aunt Sue's buddy.  So they ended up
<    calling him Uncle Buddy (after Sue and he were married).
    
:-)  I like that.

I seem to be in the minority in growing up.  My mother was a teacher, and her
friends (also teachers) were referred to by their first names, so I used
their first names as well.  I counted them among my own friends, and got along
well with them.  We would often play volleyball with my parents' friends or
do other things and I was counted as a near equal.

Likewise, many of my relatives were referred to by first names.  My favorite
grandmother was never "Grandma" to me; she was Zelma.  My other grandmother
was usually just Evelyn, though she preferred a title before that, it never
stuck.  Two of my grandfathers were Papa George and Papa John.

There are times I would like my children to use the more formal way of
addressing adults, but if I don't do it, I don't know how to get them to do it,
and my friends typically introduce themselves to the kids by their first
names anyway.  With acquaintances, I have a hard enough time remembering their
first names, which is what *I'm* supposed to call them, much less their last
names, too.  :-}  ;-)

       Carol

    
    For adults, my kids usually pick up on how they were introduced to the
    people.  At school is Ms/Mr. lastname.  My friends are usually just
    first name.  I doubt they know they're last names to call them anything
    else.  Even aunts and uncles are just first names.
    
    Gandparents .... well, my mother wanted to be called Nanny, and Dad's
    mom wanted to be called (nothing at all, but settled on) Granma, so
    that was easy.  Both grandfathers wanted to be called Grandpa though,
    and in an effort to try to describe who was who, when Chris was very
    young .... Dad's dad always gave Chris gum.  My dad never did.  So, now
    we have "Grandpa with the gum" and "Grandpa without the gum" .... as
    they get older, it's getting switched to Grandpa Don and Grandpa Fred,
    or Mom's Dad and Dad's Dad.  
    
    For Jonathan, his paternal grandfather goes, to the other kids, by the
    name of "Beepa", and she goes by "Nana"  If it could ever be explained
    to me what "beepa" is from, it'd be easier to call him that .... I
    think it's going to end up "Pat and Dave".  
    
    I remember growing up, being VERY uncomfortable about what to call
    people.  Some people wanted to be called their first name, and we were
    brought up to only use last, and it was hard to make the switch.
    
    Even now, Jason's teacher is Mrs. Townsend .... if someone asks about
    Lois, I have No Idea who they're talking about!  If you're
    uncomfortable about what you're being called, then correct them with
    what you'd like to hear.  I think it should be up to the individual,
    what name their called by.  I know I don't pay any attention at all
    when someone says Mrs. Weier - they must mean someone else!
    
    

    What Carol said.  Maybe it is from growing up in the west and in very
    informal neighborhoods.  Mrs and Mr were reserved for teachers.  Heck
    I even refer to my Dr's by their first names.  (My kids have it
    modified to Dr. Laura, Dr. Greg, and Dr. Mary)
    
    meg

    When I used to work at a Day Care all the kids called all the adults
    by their first name with either a MR, MRS, MISS in front.  I still see
    kids I worked with 12 years ago and they still call me Miss
    Robin,,,even though it's now Mrs. Robin. :-)   INHO I felt being callings 
    Miss Robin...did give me a little more respect.....or at least it felt
    that way.
    
    My mother's old neighbors will always be Mr & Mrs no matter what age I
    get.....anything else feels funny to me.
    
    My Mother too had a problem with the image of a "grey haired" granny, so
    she went with Nanny.  My father chose Papa.......he just seems like a
    Papa.  My husband's parent were already grandparents x6 so .... Grammie
    and Grampy was already established.  My mothers mother went by Nana....
    and when both of my grandmothers were alive it was Nana Peabody and
    Nana Shields.
    
    At almost 3 my daughter is referring to my friends with kids as ....
    Dani Mommy, Alex's Daddy......or Mommy's friend Shawn (all in one
    gasp).
    
    :-) Robin