Conference moira::parenting

re .15:

>    There are ordinary, everyday precautions that you should take to help
>    too.  For example, make sure the car doors are locked so no one can
>    jump in easily and harm the baby or you.  

While I agree with your basic point -- take sensible precautions -- I'm
afraid that I'd have a hard time seeing this as such a sensible precaution.
It all depends on the sort of places where you have to drive, of course; but
in general, I'd be inclined to classify taking precautions against people
jumping into your car to harm you or your baby as closer to the "paranoia"
end of the spectrum than the "sensible precautions" end.

	-Neil

    	Ah, I don't know, I grew up in a fairly safe town, but my mother
    *always* drilled into us to lock all doors in the car while driving so
    that someone could not get in while we were at a stop sign or whatever.
    Invariably, she only remembered to tell us when we traveled to the
    "bad" section of the next town, but it was not an unusual warning for
    us to hear. 

    	Even now, I always make sure that all doors in my car are locked
    while I am driving with or without the baby. To me this makes perfect,
    sense and to me, falls under the heading of sensible precautions.

    
    I think it's very sensible...I don't practice it all the time...but I 
    have leaned over and locked the doors before when feeling uneasy.  
    
    Some years ago my grandmother was at a red light and someone tried to 
    take her out of the car...I presume to steal it....couldv'e easily 
    been a mother with child in the backseat unnoticed til it made some 
    noise down the road a bit.   I saw this on 911 or one of those shows 
    when the mother was pumping gas...I think they dumped the kid out 
    when they realized it.

And I'll continue this rathole on locking the doors.  I always lock the
car doors when I'm driving.  When I was around 12 or so, I remember coming
home with my mother from grocery shopping.  She slowed down and stopped for 
a red light, and a guy who was hitch-hiking opened the back door, slid the
groceries over, and proceeded to get in.  My mother started yelling at this
guy asking what he thought he was doing and demanded that he get out, which
he promptly did.  We all knew it was an honest mistake, but my mother and
I still shook all the way home.  Not something I'd care to experience with
someone who had no good on their minds.

But then, I also still get up during the night to make sure the kids are
breathing, and they're 16 months old. 

Cathy

It's been *months* since someone accused me of "male-bashing", and I'm
having withdrawal.

Sorry, Neil, but there are a *lot* of things that women must do to be safe 
on a daily basis that appear paranoid.  And they're doing it to be *safe* 
from men.  Locking the doors of one's car is only one of them.  Most of us
do things without even thinking about it, it's so ingrained in us.

I will certainly teach my daughter *all* the tricks I know, and I won't 
apologize or feel paranoid for it.

Pat

    Okay, confession time, when I first read Neil's response, my initial
    reaction was "geesh, what a male thing to say."

    If it is male bashing then so be it, I'm still going to lock my car
    doors while I'm driving.


    	Wendy who also occasionally gets out of bed at night to make sure
    that all of the house doors and windows are (really) locked.

    
    
    	I had a dr's appointment five weeks after having Callan, and since
    I didn't want to leave her with anyone, I took her with me.  To get to
    my doctor's office, I had to drive through a rotten section of town. 
    For some reason, my "new mother paranoia" kicked in, and I locked the
    car doors - I NEVER usually do that.  Cal was in the front seat with
    me, in her car seat. 
    	
    	I was stopped at a red light in this rotten section, gazing at
    something going on toward my left.  All of a sudden, an old woman was
    trying to get into the passenger's side of the door - where Callan was
    sitting - I almost had heart failure!!!  I blew my horn -
    she didn't go away.  She kept knocking on the window and trying the
    door handle.  I finally figured out she was looking for cigaretts or a
    handout or something, and she probably was harmless.  BUT, I wouldn't
    wnat to have found out, and I'm glad my door was locked.  So no, I
    don't think locking your doors is paranoid at all!
    
    	Plus, there have been a few carjackings lately... all in all, I'm
    locking my doors these days!
    
    	Justine 

I just read in the paper about incidents of "carjacking" in the Washington DC
area.  Perpetrators are commandeering cars.  One woman was killed when
she got caught in the seatbelt and was dragged a considerable distance.
The carjackers tossed her baby (who was in a carseat) out the window.
The baby was uninjured.

    While I understand the previous statements about locking car doors, and
    do so myself in certain areas I perceive as dangerous, I want to
    present the argument for leaving car doors unlocked while driving.
    
    Rescue folks (police, medics, and road mechanics) prefer that you leave
    your doors unlocked.  If you got into an accident and the rescue crew
    needed to get you out of the car, this would be much slower and more
    difficult if the doors were locked, especially if you have the newer
    electronic locks.
    
    My odds of getting in a car accident and needing to be removed by
    rescuers is much higher than my odds of being invaded by an
    undesireable person. 
    
    L
    

    I think one would be amazed at how often "jumping in the car" happens. 
    I remember when I was a teen sitting at a gas station, a guy whose car
    had been towed in wanted a ride and I told him I didn't give rides to
    strangers as he climbed in my car and said, I wouldn't hurt a flea and
    it's just up the street.
    
    I didn't read your note, Neil, as a male thing to say - but more as
    something someone might say who has never had this happen to them.
    
    The other side of the coin is - what if you lock your car and then get
    in an accident and no one can get you or your baby out!  Personally, I
    only lock my car if I'm driving at night alone.  Otherwise I figure
    there are enough people around where a blast of the horn will get some
    attention.
    
    -sandy (who gaves up a little paranoia each year....)
    

    Using the previous logic, should you then not bother to use seat belts
    because if you were in an accident the rescue people would then be able
    to pull your (mangled) body out of your car faster?

    Apologies to the rescue people out there, but I'm still locking my
    doors.

    				Wendy

Not meaning to promote fears, but...

WBZ-TV did a short piece this past week on what's now called "carnapping".
It involves people who hijack cars with the occupants still in them.
Most hijacked people were in cars stopped at traffic lights or in parking lots.

Apparently it's becoming far more common than one would think.
Appears to be very prevalent in the D.C. area with expensive cars.
They interviewed a woman who was "carnapped" just last week in the
Boston area. (I think it was Bridgewater?  They said there were two
or three such crimes in that town in the past few months.)

The police they interviewed in the segment said most of these 
crimes could be avoided if the cars were locked.

Ok, I stand well corrected that I was being unreasonable in characterizing
locking the car doors as "paranoid".  I'm not convinced to the extent that
I'm going to start locking my own doors, but I understand better why others
would choose to.

As for the comments about a "typically male comment," there's probably 
a lot of justice in that.  Certainly as a man I have not had to confront
the world from the perennial position of a "potential victim" as women
often must.

I'll withdraw my original comment, with apologies.

	-Neil

    RE:  .27
    
    >Should you then not bother to use seat belts because if you were in an
    >accident the rescue people would then be able to pull your (mangled)
    >body out of your car faster?
    
    That's not a valid comparison.  They can quickly cut seatbelts with a
    pair of shears or a knife.  That's much easier than prying open a
    locked door.  Also, all accident stats indicate it is safer to wear
    seatbelts than not, as you surely know.
    
    I'm not saying you should NEVER lock the door.  As I said, there are
    places where I too lock the doors.  I'm just saying that you should
    balance the risk of an invader against the risk of an accident.  
    
    One must be realistic about hazards in life.  One can go so far to
    prevent one hazard that one incurs another.  If a "carnapping" occured
    in your town, I am sure it would be in the news as an unusual crime.
    (Unless you live in a large city where weird crimes are common. ;-) )  
    If you then knew that such carnappings had occured, it would be
    reasonable to take precautions.  Until that time, not.  I mean, you may
    never have such problems in your area, but worry about them all the
    time.  How does that benefit you?
    
    L

    Is it, perhaps, a more common practice to lock your doors if you are a
    city dweller?  I live in Worcester, MA.  Car hijacking happens more
    frequently than reported in the news (and there have been a couple
    recently, both in downtown Worc. and at the Greendale Mall), therefore
    I always lock my car doors when I'm driving through the city.  I tend
    to unlock them once I hit the highway, simply because I'm more likely
    to get into an accident on 290 and 495, and I want to give rescuers
    every possible edge. Also I'm not likely to stop on the highway, so
    anyone who wants to hijack my car will have to catch me first : ) 

    I learned in 1960 in Montana to lock your car doors so thieves
    can't yank you out of your car while you're stopped at a traffic
    light or stop sign (and a nice dark rural corner is a real good
    spot for it).  
    
    This is an old, old crime.  Before cars, they hijacked
    stagecoaches and trains. 
    
    --bonnie

    re: accidents and locked doors
    >Rescue folks (police, medics, and road mechanics) prefer that you leave
    >your doors unlocked.  If you got into an accident and the rescue crew
    >needed to get you out of the car, this would be much slower and more
    >difficult if the doors were locked, especially if you have the newer
    >electronic locks.
    
    Is this true?  I used to work with a part-time police officer who
    told me this but I suspect locking the doors wouldn't slow down a
    rescue too much.  I've only seen a demo of the jaws of life.  In
    that case the rescue personnel just smashed the rear window, covered
    the "victim" and attending rescuer with a tarp, then smashed the
    rest of the windows and opened the top of the car like a sardine can.
    I can't see how locked doors would slow this down.
    
    Do any of you know the standard procedure for getting into a car
    that's been in an accident?  I thought they just pried the doors
    open.  It seems like locked doors would only be a problem when the
    accident didn't damage the car enough to prevent the doors from
    being opened.  For me, it doesn't seem to be enough of a risk to
    worry about.  I'd be more worried about unlocked doors popping open
    in an accident.  If anyone has any more information about this I'd
    be interested in reading it.
    
    re: carjackings
    Unfortunately something similar to this happened in Manchester, NH
    which is all too close to where I live (Derry, NH).  A man jumped
    into a woman's car as she was parking it at the Mall of New Hampshire.
    He then made her drive to Londonderry, NH where he raped her.  Between
    this and the parking lot robberies which occurred in the area, I'm
    getting paranoid.
    
    re: the base note
    I too have had strong fears for myself and my children at times (I
    have not had a miscarriage or stillbirth).  My two biggest fears
    have been 1) what if we have a house fire and I can't get downstairs
    to rescue the kids and 2) what if I have a car accident and I'm
    not able to help the children (the worst case would be if I were killed
    and the children were crying for hours until someone discovered the
    car).  The severity of my fears has subsided over time.  They came
    back a little stronger after Andrew was born but not nearly as bad
    as they were after I had Nicole.  My mother and brother also had
    similar fears about themselves and their children.  I remember my
    mother telling my brother that she still had those fears but they
    aren't as strong as they were when we were little.
    
    Ruth

         <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES3:[NOTES$LIBRARY_3OF5]PARENTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Parenting >-
================================================================================
Note 304.35                 Mother's Dark Nightmares                    35 of 36
TANNAY::BETTELS "Cheryl, Eur. Ext. Res. Prg., DTN 821-4022"  19 lines  16-SEP-1992 02:49
                    -< Am I glad I don't live over there! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We do not lock our doors when driving, exactly for the reason that Laura
stated.  Fortunately, we don't have carnappings or whatever.  The very idea!!
but we have plenty of accidents so I prefer making it easier for the rescuers.

When I was in the US last I rented a car which automatically locked all it's
doors as soon as you started it.  Scared the wits out of me besides giving
me claustrophobia attacks.

What I am amazed that people that I know don't seem to use in the US is child
locks on cars.  As I've said before, all children below the age of 12 are
required to ride in the rear seat here.  We have a switch on the car door
which prevents a child from opening the door from the inside (but it can still
be opened from the outside).

Now that my children are into the teen years, the biggest worry I have for them
is that someone will give them drugs.  I think that as children get older,
the worries do not lessen, they only refocus onto other topics.

Cheryl

    
    
    I noticed that I have been locking the car doors now that I have
    Nicholas (6 mos).
    
    About a year or two ago, a police officer visited my facility (ZKO)
    and was talking about how women can protect themselves (breakins, rape,
    etc).  He suggested that the car doors be locked at all times.
    I guess in Nashua on Main St., around Christmas time, there were people
    at stop signs and traffic lights waiting for a car and they'd open
    the car door and steal their purses.  Someone in the seminar asked
    the police officer about wether or not it's safe/unsafe to lock
    the car doors in case of an accident.  He said that there have been
    a lot of accidents where people were ejected (and killed) from their
    car because their car door was not locked (I guess upon impact or
    the car rolling over the door opened up).  So I've decided for saftey
    reasons and to protect my son that I lock my doors.
    
    I saw a head on collision last summer.  They needed to use the
    "jaws of life" to get both people out of their cars.  The jaws of
    life ripped open the roof of the car as well as the door like it
    was nothing.  So seeing that made me not worry as much if I got 
    into an accident and had my car door locked.
                                                

    A neighbor who's a cop pointed out that in most accidents severe
    enough to make getting you out a problem, the window glass is
    going to be shattered anyway, making reaching in to unlock the
    door the least of the problems he's got to deal with . . . and if
    it's not broken already, he can do it for you. 
    
    --bonnie

     Re:  Carjacking
    
    I just heard a report on NPR this morning (WBUR, Boston) that
    carjackings are on the increase.  Congress is considering making it
    a felony crime.  The FBI is getting involved now.  They are considering
    sending out decoys in the popular carjacking neighborhoods.  The police
    seem to think the perpetrators are part of a gang-initiation thing.
    And that these criminals don't have the street smarts that the "past"
    criminals had.  These kids don't care about breaking into cars and
    trying to figure out how to wire it up.  They want the car now!  Seems
    like we all have to be careful.  The police did say that your chances
    of being in a carjacking are much lower than, say, getting killed in a 
    car accident. They also said that the criminals aren't necessarily
    looking for car parts to sell.  They want a joy ride.  Also, they said
    that no one kind of car is the target.  For instance, a Lexus is no
    more important to them than a Colt.  It is a completely ramdom crime as
    far as the police are concerned.
    
    NF
                                
    

    Well, we always lock our doors. When my wife was younger (prob. in late
    1960's, early 1970's), she had one friend who was stopped at a light.
    Man crept along side of car (low and out of sight), grabbed dorr open
    and jumped in. He immediately punched her in the jaw, and threatened to
    "blow a hole in her side" if she screamed or blew her horn. This was in
    the middle of a downtown area with people *all over* the place.
    Admitting later it was a stupid thing to do, she yanked the keys from
    the ignition and threw them out the car window. Now she couldn't move,
    the light changed and cars started honking at her. The man swore
    fiercely, once more smashed her in the face and took off. Ohter than a
    broken nose and a black eye, she was fine. But don't count on blowing
    your horn or screaming as a back-up to unlocked doors.... When they
    found this guy several hours later (he tried this again on an off-duty
    cop), he did indeed have a loaded gun in his pocket, and could esily
    have shot my wife's friend.
    
    She knew someone else who had stopped at an intersection in a slightly
    more suburban area (but still with people around) who yanked open the
    passenger door, waved a knife in her face, grabbed her purse, and ran.
    She was very fortunate.
    
    About two years ago, in the Webster Square parking lot right in
    Worcester, MA, my wife had stopped and was waiting at the exit to pull
    out. It was cool, her windows were up, and her doors were locked. A
    man came up to her (driver's side) door, and began yanking on the
    handle and yelling at her. She could not understand what he was saying,
    but he became *very* upset and started hitting the window with his
    fists when she wouldn't open the door or window. She pulled out as
    quickly as she could (traffic was heavy), and left him standing there
    ranting. Cars behind her backed up and exited by another way! It left
    her badly frightened and definitely unwilling to leave doors unlocked.
    
    *one* person's experience....  I vote for leaving them locked!
    
    --dave--

    the very morning I was reading the first responses about my original
    nite (and when the topic of cars came up) there was the story out of
    Edmonton where a man stole a locked car with a 6 week old baby in it
    out of a mall parking lot. The car and baby were found in the parking
    lot of a hospital hours later, some hundreds of miles away in north
    Dakota.
    Yes, we are all thinking "what did that women think, to leave her baby
    in the car alone?!?" --- I think she'll never do it again......
    
    Monica

    The Boston Globe had a lead article on this topic yesterday.
    
    There have been several thousand car hijackings in the L.A. area, and
    several hundred near D.C. and Detroit.
    
    Massachusetts police commented that there have been none so far in this
    state.  I assume there have been none in New Hampshire.
    
    Thanks to the noter a few replies back whose police neighbor said he
    could readily smash the window glass to extract a trapped motorist. 
    Yes, that makes a lot of sense.  I'll feel better about locking the
    doors in areas I feel are risky.
    
    L

    None that have been successful, but how many attempted? And how many
    people actually report it if they get away safely?  
    Sarah 

    re: .26
    
    I can recall at least two in NH in the past few months.  Maybe more. 
    
    --bonnie

    On a lighter note, my husband has a habit of locking the car doors. 
    He'll hit the lock, and during the drive, do it several more times. 
    It's just a habit.  It is bad enough though that when I get out of the
    car for any reason, to get money from money machine, or even to get the
    baby from the back seat, if my car door closes, he locks the doors out
    of habit.  Then I have to tap on the window, and wait for him to unlock
    the doors.  I'm glad our driver's door has to be locked with the key!!
    
    Angie

    There have most definitely been carjackings in Massachusetts! A very
    close friend of ours had this happen to her in downtown Worcester a
    couple of months ago. She did not have her doors locked.
    
    And a bit over a week ago, a woman from Rhode Island had her Lexus
    carjacked at the Greendale Mall in Worcester. It was recovered by
    police. She had just stepped out of her car when 3 young men approached
    and demanded her keys at knife point. So it wouldn't have helped her to
    have locked doors!
    
    It does happen, even in Massachusetts...
    
    --dave--

   We had a carjacking style incident here in Dallas just yesterday.  
Apparently a lady was waiting at a red light at a fairly busy intersection
with her car window down and some guy literally crawled thru her window
to get in her car.  According to the news he took her and her car to some
house where he meet a friend.  They raped the girl and then stuck her in
the trunk of the car.  They then drove the car to a driving range and left
it there.  People found her when they heard her yelling for help.

  So in addition to keeping your car doors locked I guess you should keep
your windows rolled up as well.

 -Lisa

    There was a report on the news the other night about car-jackings in
    MA.  The police in the Boston area said they didn't want to call them
    car-jackings and make this a crime of "glory" but wanted to keep it low
    key to avoid copy cat thefts.  They are calling it larceny!  So it
    seems that it is happening here - but under a different name.  There
    were two reports of "larceny" in Worcester and two in Brighton.  One
    thief attempted to steal the truck of a guy who pulled a registered
    hand gun on the thief.  Well, guess that thief changed his mind fast! 
    I am not advocating carrying guns, but if your cars are locked (of
    which mine are now!) they will have a harder time getting in.  They
    Boston police offered no clue as to what you can do to prevent this
    from happening (which disappointed me!!) - but then again they don't
    want to make this a big deal!
    
    -sandy
    

    
    I just heard on the radio this week about a couple of carjackings.
    In one the driver was pushed aside and the thief took off. The car
    was recovered abandonned. The other one was only an attempted
    carjacking cause the owner of the car had a registered gun and 
    chased the would-be-thief, who was arrested by the police.
    I don't know exactly where these happened, but I assume Mass., since
    that's where I live and the radio station is based. I just thought
    it was interesting that I had never heard of it, had been reading these
    notes, and then heard this on the radio. I have to wonder if it is 
    starting to happen more due to more media attention or if it's been 
    happening all along and it's just starting to get more media
    attention??? Know what I mean???
    
    Patty

    Very after the fact, but thought I just add my two cents worth as an
    EMT/Rescue member.  In defense of a locked door preventing the Rescue
    or police personell from getting to you, in a nut shell not a problem. 
    Most EMT/Rescue/police carry something called a "punch tool"  It it the
    size of and ice pick and on impact will cause any of the side and back
    windows of a vehicle literally disintegrate into small pea size
    pebbles.  Still just as sharp and dangerous, but at least in a matter
    of literally seconds, there is no window between you and the rescuer. 
    They also carry a special set of rescue shears to cut the seatbelt,
    these sissors' favorite sales pitch is to demonstrate by cutting a
    penny in half, no sweat for them at all!  I carry both with me at all
    times!  Worse case, a tire iron, a policeman's nightstick or flashlight 
    can take care of the window in the same way in just about the same
    amount of time.  As for the seatbelts, more injuries are prevented with
    them, than are caused....(NTSB statistics FWIW)
    
    I agree with keeping the doors locked, unfortunately mine have no
    electronic all at once mechanism.  I often think I'm all locked in, and
    then discover the rear passenger door is unlocked when I reach my
    destinations.
    
    Last fall we were returning from the "Big E", it was about 11:00 at
    night we had stopped a the pancake house for a late supper.  Some guy
    yells a me "hey got change for a quarter".  I literally dove into the
    car, AJ was already in, husband was just getting in, locked all the
    doors I could get my hands on and litterally yelled at my husband
    "let's get the H*:: out of her NOW!"  Maybe as others have related, it
    was a legitimate request, but I'm not taking any chances with MY son in
    the car!  It was a rather lonely stretch of route 20 in Springfield.
    
    

    FWIW, AJ just turned 6 last week.  I *still* check him each night after
    he's asleep, and if I use the bathroom through the n ight I check him
    to make sure he is alright, and covered up warm.  If I have any doubts
    say if he were sick, I will sleep on the couch a few feet away and
    leave his door open so I can hear him if he needs help.  
    
    The night of the blizzard last month, he was in our bed between us,
    because we had lost power and I just felt better knowing where he was.
    I barely slept, still afraid I'd roll over on him and hurt him.  He was
    snuggled up to my husband's backside, and pushing him out of bed all
    night.  Thankfully it's a kingsize bed, but the water in it was a bit 
    chilly by morning with no power all night!
    
    When he was an infant and he was upstairs with us, we had a severe
    thunder/wind storm.  I was very tempted to bring him down to the living
    room because the trees were bending so.  I was paranoid that a tree
    would crash through the roof on his side of the house.
    
    Would I ever leave him  alone, NEVER!!

    That's wonderful - AJ should be proud and feel secure that you 
    are so dilligent. That's great. Also makes me feel that I am not
    over doing it when I perform some "somewhat unnecessary" action to
    make sure the family is safe and sound. 
    Nice to see you here again!
    
    Monica

    Interesting, right after I entered my note I left for the day.  Shortly
    after arriving home our lights went out, and stayed out for over an
    hour.  I understand someone had had an accident, and a pole with a
    transformer was affected, as well as some parts of the town were with
    out power over 5 hours prior tous loosing ours!
    
    We decided to dub this "a camp out night" in our home.  I lit a candle
    in the bathroom, two on sconces on the wall behind the couch, and two
    more in tall containers that became "portable" light sources, so we
    could take them to other partsof the house.  (like to light the wood
    stove, since we are an all electric home-heat included)  AJ was really
    excited, I was absolutely terrified inside.  We read Dr. Suess books by
    candlelight, and he went to bed willingly, to my amazement, just about
    at his regular bedtime.
    
    I was terrified he'd grab at a candle, so we "issued" him his own
    flashlight, to use as he wanted.  He was very careful to stay away from
    the candles, and it was a fairly uneventful evening.  
    
    It was an exciting event, and he never knew how terrified I really was!
    
    Lyn

    Lyn;
    
    One of the things that we stock for power outages is Cyalume sticks.
    Like you we are leary of candles and oil lamps around the children. 
    The kids really love them and use them for nightlights when the power
    is out. 
    
    /jim

    As a quick footnote, over the weekend AJ wanted to know "when we could
    loose our lights again".  Thinking this a bit wierd I asked him why he
    would want to loose power.  It was because he had had so much fun the
    night we lost power and we read him Dr. Seuss by candle light.
    
    We "humored" him and shut off all the lights, lit the candles and read
    Dr. Seuss by candlelight.  He was thrilled.  Now I think the next time
    we loose power, or go camping for that matter, he will likely be
    anything but afraid.  Good things really do come from odd situations!
    
    Lyn