Conference moira::parenting

    
>    Does anyone know what the pros and/or cons are to this?  What has other
>    people done, what is the best way to go in this case.
    
    Laura,
    
    We filed for our daughters SSN through the hospital and it was mailed
    to us about 9 weeks later. I don't know of any reason not to get it
    right away, however, if you live in Mass you must provide a SSN in order
    to claim the child as a dependent.

    Let the hospital take care of it for you, it's one less thing to worry
    about after your baby is born.

    Best of luck !

    
    Go for the card, you'll have to do it eventually and why not let
    someone else take care of it for you? Also, if you want to set up
    accounts in your child's name (for tax reasons or not) the child will
    need a Social Security number.
    
    	In today's society an SS number is mandatory, it really just a
    matter of when you want to do it, now or almost now.
    
    				Wendy

    All children need a SSN before the age of two.  May as well let the
    hospital do all the legwork for you.
    
    -sandy
    

    re:1 
    I heard that as of age 1 children need SS Card - my daughter was 7
    months when we did our taxes - did not need her SSN at that time -
    was still able to claim as a dependant but was told for next years
    taxes - a # will be needed.
    BTW - I filled mine out while in the hospital and it took FOUR MONTHS
    to get it. So if you don't get it within 2 months - CALL the SS 
    Department closes to you.

It's actually easier to let the hospital get if for you. They simply send 
in the forms when the birth certificate is filed.  If you get it, you have
to supply the birth certificate plus 1 or 2 other forms of identification for
the baby.  They will accept medical bills with the child's name, baptismal
certificate, doctor's appointment notification, etc, but it's a pain to have
to pull all that stuff together, march down to the SS office and apply.  

>>  If you get it, you have
>> to supply the birth certificate plus 1 or 2 other forms of identification for
>> the baby.  They will accept medical bills with the child's name, baptismal
>> certificate, doctor's appointment notification, etc, but it's a pain to have
    
    I just did this for my daughter in March.  I went to the Worcester, MA
    office.  All they need is the birth certicicate.  You don't even
    need to fill out an application form.  They typed the information
    on the birth certificate into computer while I was there and returned
    the certificate to me immediately.  I got the card within 2 weeks.
    All the children need to have a SSN by the age of 1.  If they don't
    have the SSN by 1, you can still claim them as dependents on your
    tax returns but you have to pay a penalty.
    
    I did submit a card with my hospital.  But the hospital never
    forwarded it to SS office.  I would suggest to let the hospital
    take care it for you.  However, call the SS office if you don't
    hear from them in 2 months.
    
    Wendy

    
         PLEASE SIGN THE BACK OF THIS CARD IMMEADIATLY!
    
         CARRY YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY CARD WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES!
    

    
    With my first daughter, I let the hospital handle the social security
    card, and it arrived in 6-8 weeks.
    
    With my second daughter, I again let the hospital handle the ss card,
    and waited and waited!!  After many phone calls to the hospital and to
    the social security office in Concord, NH, I finally got the card when
    Kelsey was 6 months old.  Everyone blamed everyone else, but noone ever
    did anything to fix the problem until I really screamed!  Several times
    they even blamed it on those damn computers!! :}  They also refused to
    file a new application, just in case the other had been processed or
    was on the way.  What a hassle...and I just wanted to buy her some
    savings bonds with her birth money!!
    
    Just like everything else in life...if it works...its good, but if it
    doesn't...its a real pain in the butt!!

    Re 152.7:
    
    Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that, too!  What was I supposed to
    do, put their fingerprints on it?
    
    FWIW, be sure that your baby's name is spelled EXACTLY as you
    want it to be on the birth certificate (i.e., "Aisling" instead
    of "Ashley," "Devin" instead of "Devon," etc., etc.). It is a
    true pain in the neck (or other favorite body part :-)) to 
    get Social Security to accept a change in the spelling of the name.

    Well, a SSN is not exactly mandatory, but, as has been pointed out, you
    need it now to claim a dependent. You also need it to start a child's
    bank account. Both of these reasons fall under the rule that a SSN is
    required and can be demanded of you for anything to do with the IRS or
    the Social Security Administration.
    
    All other uses are illegitimate and should be resisted. Your SSN was
    not meant to be a national identity number and should not be so used.
    
    Just say no to driver's license, grocery store ID, etc...
    
    Kit

    Just as a warning...
    
    Sometime just before or after you are due, you may receive something in
    the mail offering to get a SSN for your child for a FEE!  To apply for
    a SSN for your child does not cost you anything so throw any offer like
    that in the circular file!
    
    Jane

    RE .11
    
    really...I received a form from the government that said I
    had to pay $15.....this was as a result of what the hospital
    sent.
    
    I think it was legit.....anyone else have to pay?
    
    Kristen

RE: .12  paying for someone to file for SSN

   I don't think its illegal to charge someone to do this, but I
   believe the point was that the service was free if you did it
   yourself.  I suppose its like paying a "runner" to handle getting
   you a license plate from the motor vehicle people - its not that
   you "have" to pay someone to do it, but you can chose to.
   
   - Tom

    
>    really...I received a form from the government that said I
>    had to pay $15.....this was as a result of what the hospital
>    sent.
    
>    I think it was legit.....anyone else have to pay?
    
>    Kristen

	Kristen,

	Look again, are you sure its from the government? We received
	a very official looking government document from a service that,
	upon closer scrutiny, didn't reveal any official government office
	as the sender. They also wanted to charge 15 $'s for something I
	could get free of charge. Very misleading.

I don't have SSNs for my children and refuse to enter them in the US computers.
I do not claim them as dependents.

I once went shopping in the states in my parent's city where I used to maintain
a checking accounting.  I tried to pay with a local check and gave them my
passport for identification.  The sales clerk looked at it from all directions
and asked "What's this!?"  I said it is my identification.  She asked me if
I didn't have a driver's license.  So I gave her my Swiss driver's license :-)
That really confused her because it's written in French, German and Italian and
doesn't have an expiration date.  It is also a little booklet rather than
a credit card thing.  It took two level of supervisors and a call to my bank
to approve my check with my passport as identification.

Jeesh!  ccb

    Wow....guess I got taken....never even realized...I'll have to
    see who I wrote the check to....
    
    Still need to get birth certificate...what a pain in the *&*(
    that is....
    
    Kristen

    With my first, the hospital asked me if I wanted them to do it. I said
    yes, but they never filled out the paperwork. So, I went to the Social
    Security office myself and paid $15 to get it.
    
    The hospital did the second one and it didn't cost me anything. I would
    definitely have the hospital do it for you. It saves you the hassle.
    
    -Sheila
    

    Sheila, WHY did you pay $15 for a SS card?  I don't understand that,
    especially if you went to the SS office.  I don't recall paying any
    fee, (at the Worcester office about 3.5 years ago).
    
    Lyn

    depending on how your family is set up, having the hospital do the
    paperwork can be a distinct disadvantage.
    
    Since we aren't formally married, and Colorado refuses to put the
    unmarried father's name on the Birth Cirtificate without a lot of extra
    paper work, and a few weeks worth of time, Frank would not have been on
    the SS card, had we had her in the hospital, and had them fill out the
    paperwork.  
    
    The Social Security people have no such hangups, and happily put Frank's
    name on Carrie's SS information, so while the state of Colorado still
    says that she is a product of immaculate conception, she is covered for
    her father under Social security, should anything happen  to him,
    Goddess forbid.   
    
    Meg

    I'm glad someone entered this topic.  A year later... I'm still mad
    about this.  I got su*kered in to the $15.00 fee for a birth
    certificate as I didn't realize at the time that Memorial would be
    doing it for free.  The document looked very professional & it made
    mention of a Govt Service so I sent the check off to them.  Then I
    rec'd one free from the hospital so I never sent back the application
    for the $15.00 one.  Boy, was I rippin - Social Security told me that I
    couldn't get my $$$ back either.  I didn't care so much about the $$$
    but the fact that they looked so official!!!  I was so confused after
    rec'g a SS card &  an application for one that I packed up my baby &
    drove to SS in Nashua to find out the scoop!
    
    LOOK OUT!!! is all I can say!
    
    Sonia

And as clarification once again:  It is *not* mandatory to get a SSN for
your child!  IF you are going to claim the child as your dependent on your
taxes, then you must *eventually* get a SSN#, but not until the child is
2 or 3 years old.

      Carol_who_put_it_off_until_the_last_minute :-)

    But , if it can be done so simply, then why put it off. We had it done
    at the hospital for David. We have since moved back to Australia, with
    David on an Australian Passport. In applying for visas to return to the
    U.S. for vacation, I just happened to mention to the consulate, that he
    should be easy, as he was U.S. born. Warning... Being U.S. Born, he
    must enter and leave the U.S. on a U.S. Passport. They said thay they
    could do a same day passport, but needed a photo, SSN, and (of course)
    Money.  If I hadn't pre=done his SSN, we would haave had to delay our
    vacation by a week, and pay re-booking penalties etc...
    
    It's worth getting mundane things like that out of the way as soon as
    possible.
    
    Peter Q.
    

I have a slightly different problem than just registering our forthcoming baby
for a social security card and I was wondering whether anybody can give me any
advice.

I have dual citizenship, American ( where I was born ) and British ( due to my
parent's nationality ).  Although upto this time I have spent most of my time in
England ( where I am currently living ) I hope one day to return to the States,
taking my family with me.

I would therefore like to register my incoming little bundle of joy as a dual
citizen.  The possible problem I envisage that when I start off communicating
with the embassy in London they might not be too happy registering a baby as a
American citizen when its father is American/English and its mother is British.

Any advice / experiences would be appreciated.


Regards

Steven


P.S. I am asking for any advice / experiences here so that I avoid any potential
     problems later.

    My daughter has dual citizenship.  She was born in the U.S. and I'm
    American, but my wife is a Canadian citizen.  I suspect that since you
    are an American citizen, your child will automatically be one too.
    
    Bob

    When you register your baby at the American Embassy, I don't believe it
    is necessary to state that you hold dual citizenship.  I had a friend
    who holds both U.S. and Irish citizenship, (her husband is Irish) and 
    had her second child in London.  She had no difficulty obtaining a U.S. 
    passport for her son - the issue of dual citizenship never came up. 
    You should call the embassy in advance and ask them what paperwork
    needs to be filled out for a child born to a U.S. citizen.
    
    Cathryn 
    

I am American, my children were born in Switzerland, their father is German. 
They hold dual American/German citizenship.  They do not have social security
numbers and I WILL NOT get them for them until I am required to by law since
I refuse to have them entered in that particular American computer.  If you
do not have social security numbers for your children and if you choose to
claim them as a dependent on your US tax form, you must pay a fine (currently
around $300).  If you do not claim them there is no penalty.  If you have a
SS# and do not give it, you are also liable to fines.

When my children were born, the city where they were born issued a statement of
birth (in lieu of an entry into our "family book" which we don't have since
we married in the US).  I took this statement to the consulate where I was
issued a "Certificate of birth of an American Citizen born abroad".  I had
to provide proof of the baby's right to this certificate by producing my own
passport.  I applied three weeks later for an American passport for my child
for which I had to provide standard passport photos.  You must also have the
child WITH you when you apply for the passport nowadays due to parental
kidnapping.

Of course there is a charge for each of these documents.  You can shorten the
wait time by getting all the forms and instructions at the embassy beforehand.
Also, they will try to tell you that you MUST have a social seurity number
for your child but read the legal blurb that they give you carefully.  If you 
do choose to get a SS#, you can do it in the embassy when you register your
child's birth.  The child's US birth certificate is legal in regards to passport 
application.

Of course, *I* have o intentions of EVER living in the US again :-)  Kids might
want to though :-)

Cheryl

    
    Ring the Embassy in London and tell them what you want to do.  They are 
    very helpful and will send you all the forms and instructions by post.
    We did my son's birth certificate and passport all in one trip and it
    only took about an hour and 40 min.
    
    LaDonna

Thank you for all your prompt replies.

I'll phone up the embassy on Monday.


Steven

    Does a child that is born outside the US but adopted by a US
    citizen get dual citizenship?
    
    Cyn

    It is interesting to note that NO government that I met will actually
    admit to anyone having dual citizenship.  What they will say is that
    someone may have citizenship of another country by birth,
    naturalization or other means.  Some governments will tolerate dual
    citizenship, others won't.  The US until recently did not.
    
    So, the bottom line is that when you deal with any government agency,
    you only give them the information they need ... you do not admit
    to being a dual national unless it is required.
    
    For example ...  I had a problem working at a job in England many
    years ago because I had become a Canadian citizen ... the job required
    British citizenship.  I was told that I was still a British citizen
    by birth and needed proof that I hadn't renounced it.  So, I now
    have a letter from the Canadian High Commission in London stating
    that I am a Canadian citizen and that taking Canadian citizenship
    did not require me to renounce previous citizenship.  I have another
    letter from the British Foreign and Commonmwealth office stating that
    I am a British citizen by birth and had not renounced British 
    citizenship.  The two letters together show that I am a dual national.
    BUT NEITHER country will call you that!
    
    So, the bottom line is when dealing for example with the British
    authorities the child is British born to an American and Briton.
    To American authorities, the child is American born abroad to
    an American and Briton.  You basically tell them what they want to
    hear!
    
    Stuart

US law states that if you take action to voluntary acquire the citizenship or
to swear an oath to another country (like serving in the armed forces of 
another country that is not a member of NATO) you invalidate your American 
citizenship.  They do NOT take issue with dual nationality acquired through
other means.

Under old Swiss law, the wife of a Swiss man automatically acquired a Swiss
passport (no longer true).  I know many American women here who have dual
nationality through marriage while the old law was still in effect.

My sons have dual nationality (German/American) with absolutely no problem and
it is so stated in their records at each embassy.  They were born with the
two nationalities so did not have to "do" anything to acquire them.

The only problem they will have is that they will not be able to pass their
American nationality on to their children unless they go live in the United
States for 2 years before they reach the age of 26.

If they acquire Swiss nationality they, by law, lose both the American and 
German nationalities.  Of course they could just wait for the Americans or 
Germans to find out or turn in only one passport but legally both countries
require surrendering of the nationality when voluntarily acquiring another.

The British have it the easiest here.  In general their country's laws do not
require giving up their passport when acquiring another nationality.  The
Swiss government used to collect the old passport of its new citizens and
send them to the respective embassies.  The Brits just returned the passport 
to the owner.  I have heard of cases recently where the former British citizen
was required to renounce his citizenship.

But then the Swiss have also changed their laws recently to allow dual 
citizenship.

So, like I say, it all depends on the laws of the countries involved.

Cheryl

    
    Sean was born in December 1991 and we went to the American Embassy
    in Lyon (France) to obtain his passport/citizenship record etc.
    The man there was very adamant about saying that Sean could have
    dual citizenship and be recognized as having dual citizenship.  The
    official knew that my husband was Irish.  He said Sean could be an 
    Irish citizen, an American citizen and that basically Sean would NEVER 
    NEVER have to choose.  He said that things in the past had been 
    miscommunicated and that now-a-days they wanted to be sure that the 
    message got across correctly.
    
    Only in the cases as stated in -1, where the individual renounces their
    citizenship or does something viewed as an act of war/agression against 
    the U.S.
    
    He repeated this so many times that we were repeating it as a joke
    for a week afterwards.
    
    We did get one legal paper which shows Sean is a citizen of the U.S.
    We were told never to lose it.  It is the original and a copy is sent
    to Washington D.C. but he didn't seem to put much faith in their
    filing system ;-)...
    
    Regards,
    
     Carol
            

As was described to me by the Canadian High Commission, they have no
way that they can state that I am a dual national.  All they can state
is that I am a Canadian and that the voluntary taking of Canadian
citizenship did not require me to renounce any other citizenships.
i.e. they cannot make any statement that I AM a dual national.

The same applies to any country, they cannot speak for your citizenship
status of another country ... they can only state as for their country.
Thus the American conuslar official can only declare that although your son was
born in country X and while that may entitle him to X citizenship, because he
was born of an American abroad, he is entitle to American citizenship by
birthright and is not "looseable" except by formal renunciation.

Because of this, it is generally far more expedient to refer to your
child as American citizen born abroad when dealing with US officials
and X citizen when dealing with country X, unless there are compelling
reasons to declare yourself as American.  Declaring dual nationality
to government departments when you don't need to seems to just cause
unneccessary grief.

For example, I referred to myself as Canadian while living in England
and travelled on a Canadian passport by choice.  Even though I was born
in England, when I went through immigration, I was for the longest time
listed in their book of legal immigrants!  Now when I go into England,
I am English resident abroad ... it makes life SO MUCH easier ... like
not requiring return airfares and so on.

Stuart

    
    Re: .31
    
>  US law states that if you take action to voluntary acquire the citizenship or
>  to swear an oath to another country (like serving in the armed forces of 
    
    Regarding taking voluntary action to acquire the citizenship of another
    country, I specifically asked this question of the US embassy in London
    last year.  I had been thinking that it might make life a little easier
    if I had a British passport (I am entitled to one since my husband is 
    British).  I was told that there would be no problem with my US
    citizenship if I did this.  All I would have to do is go to the embassy
    and sign an affidavit saying that it was not my intent to revoke my 
    US citizenship when I applied for a British passport.
    
    The US seems to be a *little* less paranoid and uptight about this sort
    of thing these days. Now if they would just get reasonable about
    insisting that I fill in US tax returns when I don't earn any money
    in the US, I would be happier with them.
    
    LaDonna

Regarding .33,

It definitely depends on the country issuing the passport as to whether they
know that the person is a dual national or not.  The U.S. embassy doesn't
know that my sons are dual nationals but the German one does because it is
listed on the German applications forms and both myself and my husband had
to sign.

In any case, the only way to find out is to go to the embassy in question and
ask for your specific case.

Cheryl