Conference moira::parenting

    
    I am going to start here!  I've been trying to plan this over in my
    head - here is the situation.  We are going to be vacationing in June
    in Sandbridge Virgina.  It is approximately 13 hours (straight driving)
    from my home in MA.  We are renting a house, so check in time isn't 
    until 3:00 pm.  I have a 3 1/2 yr old and 21 month old (boys!).  I
    don't have a clue as to what time to leave, how many stops, how to keep
    them entertained etc. etc.  Ideally, I would have liked to do the
    majority of driving at night, but with check in time not until 3:00....
    
    Also, our car will be jam packed!  We are looking to rent a trailer to
    pull, or one of those "Big Macs" you put on the roof of your car.
    
    Any help, advice etc would be great!!!
    
    elizabeth
    

    You can probably guesstimate how the kids will be by how they are now
    on trips.  Do they sleep well in the car?  Do they entertain themselves
    without too much trouble?
    
    We drove to Tennessee from Mass when my kids were 3yr and 8mo.  The
    baby had some difficulty, but generally they were both great.  We left
    early in the morning (not necessarily pre-dawn) and they would both nap
    for an hour or so.  Plan to have toys to amuse them (we put those
    little plastic baskets between them and they could take the toys they
    wanted.  We also had plenty of kid tapes for the cassette players (this
    year we drove to FL and took walkman's for both kids - now 5 and 7) and
    a cooler with juice and snacks.  At some point you may have to sit in
    the back and play with them just to break up the monotony.  Plan on
    adding about 2-3 hours with little ones - time for potty, run around
    the rest areas, extra time at mealtime.  Judge your stops by how itchy
    they seem to be.
    
    My parents tried to get me to tell them exactly how long it will take
    us and exactly how far we would go each day.  That really can't be
    answered when you have little ones.  So much is played by ear.  Don't
    try to push the trip - you may all end up stressed out and that's not a
    fun way to start your vacation.
    
    Relax and ENJOY!!!
    -sandy
    

    We are also planning a trip that will involve a long stretch of driving
    and would appreciate any tips and recommendations.  We will be driving
    from Trenton, NJ to Moorehead City, NC which is approximately 10-12
    hours driving time.  My son will be 25 months at the time and we have
    toyed with the idea of night driving at least one of the ways, but I
    just can't see him actually sleeping for a real long stretch of time.
    (I also hesitate because I don't know how the "Grownups" will handle
    night driving, I am afraid we would start to get drowsy).
    
    We plan on making frequent stops (if day driving) and will be driving a
    van so we can move from from to back a little easier to help keep my
    son occupied.
    
    Mary
    
     
    
    
    

    
    Add me to the list of travelling by car....going to St. Petersburg,
    Florida from Atlanta (7 hrs)....can't wait.
    
    Mitch will be 6 months when we go.....
    
    In this month's issue of American Baby they had an article about
    travelling by all kinds of transportation.  If I remember, I'll
    bring it in and type in some of the suggestions.
    
    Kristen 

We just recently returned from a 12 hour car trip with our 23 month old
daughter.

Here's what sorta worked for us (btw: she is one of those who does not like
to be confined for more than 3 minutes at a time).

We brought lots of different types of toys, all her favorites and several
new ones that I bought just for the trip.  I think the trick is to keep
them occupied and change activities before they realize they are getting
bored.

We also made sure we had plenty of snacks.  For the drive part of the trip
I let her have whatever snack type food made her happy (even though alot
of it was junk).  Better a little extra sugar than a screaming kid.

We tried to make a least a short stop every 2-3 hours.  Usually this
involved getting gas and/or stopping for a bite to eat.  This worked for
the first 10 hours.  Then we stopped for a sit down dinner (1 1/2 hours).
After this, the last 2 hours got to be just too much for her.  She
wanted OUT and did not stop with her request until she finally fell asleep
an hour or so later.  I have to admit, by then it was getting late and
her bedtime anyway.

If I had to do it again, for distance greater than 8 hours by car, I would
fly instead.  Maybe in a few years this will change.

Barbara

...and still do.

Whenthe children were small (infant on up) we have travelled to Greece, Spain,
south of France, Germany, etc. all by car and all trips taking over 8 hours.
Sometimes it was not a good idea to stop (in Italy on the motorway, for
example) so we just gritted our teeth and tried to close our ears :-)

Some things that worked for us:

1. Lots of toys, preferably that they're not too used to and things that are
   not too small.  As they get older, lots of books, preferably comic books.

2. Lots of snacks.  We took tins of cookies with when they were babies.  Later
   it was their favorite sandwiches.

3. Drinks, but hold off as long as possible.  We didn't start by letting them 
   drink as much as they wanted or we had to stop too often for "pi-pi pause".

4. Everybody had to go to the toilette before we left. and at evey stop we
   made.

5. Lots of music, particularly walkmans.  Each kid has a walkman now which 
   really saves Papa's nerves.  And we sing.

6. When they are babies- a carseat they can sleep in.  Take pillows, blankets,
   favorite stuffed animals (Markus used to say that his favorite animal, a
   lion named Tracy, didn't like to travel so he always had to leave him home).

7. If you're travelling in a car which is not air-conditioned in very sunny
   areas, invest in sun screens for the windows or rig up shades for the kids
   in the back seat.

8. Get a book with travel games.  We have:
   a) had a contest to see if there are more horses on the right hand or left
      hand side of the road.
   b) tried to find a car from each of the Swiss cantons
   c) seen how many countries we could find cars from
   d) looked for the entire alphabet (several times over) starting with letter
      "A" in the signs along the road
   e) Kept track of all the makes and models of cars we saw
   f) Played "buzz" (Counting game where every number containing a "7" either
      explicitly or implicitly is a buzz and reverses the counting direction).
   g) Told stories.

9. When travelling with small babies, I always took a thermos of boiled water
   and formula powder.  I didn't pre mix the bottles but just made them on the
   spot from the boiled water.  I used bottled water on the way back.  I also
   bought a wide mouth thermos which I half filled with boiling water.  I
   then heated jars of baby food in this water by submerging them for a
   quarter of an hour.  I also used the disposable bottles (plastic holder with
   plastic bag inserts) so I didn't have to wash bottles.

10. When it was really hot, I bought little 1/4 liter packages of fruit juice
    and froze them.  By the time we were ready to drink them, they had thawed 
    and made a very refreshing drink.

11. On very long trips, we broke the journey with an overnight stay.  We did
    this especially when the kids were very young.

12. We always took good maps of the areas we would be travelling through.  If
    there were blockages on the motorway, we could then always get off and
    take the local roads.  This is probably more pertinent to Europe but...

13. I always have a good guidebook along (a Michelin or whatever) and look up
    each village and town we pass through or near.  It adds interest to the
    trip for everybody.  If I find something that gives me an idea, I make up
    a story about the place, sometimes fantastic stories about fairies and
    kings and princesses.  

14. When they really get out of control, pull into the nearest rest stop and 
    have a really serious discussion.  Don't continue until you have everybody
    calm and in good spirits again.

15. Take along a map that covers the entire distance that you will be travelling
    and let the children help you mark the route with a Highliter pen.  When
    they want to know how much further or how much longer, show them where you 
    are and mark the time on the map.  They can then keep track of the journey 
    themselves.

Cheryl

    I keep forgetting to bring in the American Baby book but I do remember
    a few of the tips:
    
    1.  Use ready-to-feed formula.  Babies can be sensitive to other 
    	drinking water....also less hassle.  Bottled water will not
    	give them the flouride they need and can contain bacteria,
        it is not sterile (this includes distilled water)
    
    2.  Bring pipe cleaners to secure drawers/cabinets and bring socket
        protectors.  Check all cords and move furniture around to make
        the room more secure.
    
    3.  For infant under 20 lbs and facing to the rear, place a colored
        picture on the seat for the baby to look at.
    
    4.  Tie toys onto the car seat, especially for the 'watch mommy
        pick up the toy' stage.
    
    5.  Bring a medicine chest including: Pedialyte, syrup of ipecac,
    	saline drops, nasal aspirator, thermometer, Panadol/Tempra,
    	Pedicare, bandages/band-aids, sunscreen, benedryl, bacitracin
    
    
    That's all I can remember...
    
    Kristen

    We drove 18 hours straight at Christmas time from Hudson, Mass to Given
    West Virginia.  On the way back, we drove 10-11 hours from W.VA. to
    North Bergen NJ.  Russell was 16 months at the time.

    We brought lots of toys for the car, especially his favorites.  We also
    brought lots of snacks, again most of his favorites.  We're lucky,
    Russell likes the car, and sleeps well in it.  He did reach his limit
    around 16-17 hours on the way to West VA.  I wound up holding his hand
    while he whimpered alot.

    We did stop about every 2 hours or so for diaper jobs and stretches.  We
    also let him run around at meal times so he could let off steam.  While
    it's not a trip I plan on repeating any time soon, it was bearable. 

    I'm also not sure I'd try to do it in one day again.  We made it only
    because Russell slept for a good portion of it.  We left at about 5
    a.m.  The car was all packed and ready to go the night before.  We did
    some last minute packing before we got the baby up.  I had put him to
    bed in the sweat suit he was going to wear in the car, so all I had to
    do was pick him up and put him in the car.  He fell back asleep
    somewhere on the Mass pike.  When he woke up, we stopped for breakfast.

    We tried to put as many miles as we could in while he was sleeping, and
    usually stopped when he woke up.  It seemed to work for us then, but
    now that Russell doesn't sleep as much I'm not sure it would work
    again.  It all depends on your kids.......

    marianne

re .6

Our water here is not fluoridated in any case.  Our babies get little 
fluoride pills as do pregnant women.

The bottled water we used was always boiled in any case.  This solves any 
bacteria problems.  The main issue with using boiled tap water is not the
bacteria but one can never be sure of the lead content in non home environments.
At home I know we have all copper pipes but that isn't the case elsewhere.

When I was still using formula, I always used the same formula when I travelled.
I don't think I would have wanted to change formula just for the convenience of
pre mixed formula nor would I have wanted to carry all that weight with me,
particularly when travelling by air.

ccb

    Two days from now I am flying from Colorado to NH with my six month old
    and am dreading it.  Any ideas how I can make this more comfortable for
    Kayla?  I booked a bulkhead seat.  She'll be flying on Mumma's lap.
    
    Katrina

    I'm interested in this too...I'll be flying with Mitch when
    he's 6 months, too...in July.
    
    Kristen

    
    re: .10 and .11
    
    I didn't find flying with my son to be a problem until he was mobile.
    He either slept during much of the flights (the hum of the engines
    seemed to lull him to sleep) or was mesmerized by all the hustle
    and bustle of passengers.   I wouldn't anticipate too much trouble
    with your six month olds.
    
    I always packed a carry on bag with enough stuff for him to accomodate
    a cancelled flight - which happened to us when he was 3 months old!
    As they get older, I've found a collection of new and interesting toys
    and books help to keep their attention and keep them in their seats.
    
    Good luck with your trips!
    
    Carol

    One thing we made sure we had were plenty of bottles of
    water/juice/formular etc. so that we could give Sam a bottle
    everytime the plane took off or landed.  This required a number
    of small bottles - those connecting flights sure jack up the number
    of take offs in landing in one trip!  The bottles helped keep
    Sam's ears from blocking etc. Children this young don't know enough
    to swallow to releive the pressure.
    
    Regards,
    
    Kathy

    
    We just got back from traveling with the baby (8 months) lessons we
    learned:
    
    	If you have a pacifier try using it instead of a bottle when the
    plane goes up and comes down especially if you have connecting flights,
    lots of bottles means lots of peeing and lots of diaper changes.
    
    	Speaking of diapers, be sure to pack LOTS we ran out at JFK and had
    to pay about 1$ a piece at the airport.
    
    	Make sure you pack some PEDICARE or something like that "just in
    case" we were very thankful we had it handy.
    
    	Don't worry too much aobut toys, as stated earlier, the noise and
    bustle will keep them busy and the less you have to carry the better.
    
    	Spencer also sat on our laps, I was a little uncomfortable with
    this and so for every take off and every descent, we put Spencer in a
    snuglie and had him strapped to Marc's chest. (I don't know if it would
    have done any good but it made *me* feel better).
    
    	Eliminate most of *your* take on luggage you know that book that
    you always pack to take on the plane, leave it behind, you'll be so
    busy that you will not have time anyway.
    
    	Try to compartmentalize the baby's stuff, we actually had a small
    feeding pack (that we also used while on vacation) that we kept all of
    the days food in - we packed lots of small bottles (rarely use the
    stuff) for easy feeding and discarding.
    
    	Gate check the stoller, they meet you as you deplane with it, this
    is a lot easier than trying to get it on the plane yourself.
    
    	Allow plenty of time before your flight and if you have one of
    those busy blankets bring it to let the baby stretch out a bit on the
    floor before getting on the plane. Be careful *everyone* will want to
    touch your baby (oh isn't he cute) hover over the kid and it stops some
    of this.
    
    	Pack foods for yourself especially if the flight is delayed, you
    are so busy that even going to a food stand is tough, it's easier to
    just have it handy.
    
    				Wendy
    
    	
    
    	

   re: extra juice for helping them deal with pressure changes...
   
   Yep, good idea... just remember that extra juice in means extra
   juice out.  If you're not careful, you could be dealing with a
   whole outfit change (or more) when the extra juice starts to make
   its appearance again...  :-)
   
   - Tom
   

    how do you change a stinkybaby on a plane?  Those bathrooms are so
    little.
    
    Katrina

As mentioned in previous replies, 6 months is a great age for them to fly.
Actually any age until they become real mobil is great.

The only additional suggestion I have (and this is probably just personal
preference) is to change your seating from the bulkhead.  I know everyone
tells you that there is more room in this seat, but I have not found this
to be true.  For starters, the arm rests on the bulkhead seats cannot be
folded back and you do not have a seat in front of you to store the baby
things.  This forces you to store them above which can be inconvenient if
you need something during the fasten seat-belt stages of the flight.

When traveling with my daughter, I always ask for a seat assignment that
will give me the best chance of having an open seat next to me.  That way,
I can lay the baby down for a nap and not have to hold her for the entire
flight (note: this is another reason for avoiding the non-folding arm
rests of the bulkhead seats).  Getting an open seat works best if there
are two adults traveling with one infant.  Just ask for a window and an
aisle with the open middle.  I have found that most gate and check-in
agents very willing to try to accomodate this request provided the flight
is not full.

Good luck, 

Barbara

    
    Ditto on the bulkhead seats, we found those to be the most trouble for
    the reasons mentioned previously.
    
    	As far as changing the baby on the plane...NOT. Unless you have an
    open seat next to you, it's very very tough, try instead to change the
    baby right before you leave (lucky for us, Spencer decided to do his
    stuff *just* as they announced early boarding, fastest diaper change in
    the east). And right after the flight. of course if it's a long flight
    or if you get soem incredible "stinky pants" (a phrase that Spencer
    laughs at - yeah live it up) you might have to be very creative.
    
    	I'd never try to change a baby in those bathrooms, worst case,
    stand up and use *your* seat to change the tyke.
    
    			Wendy

    
    
    Some planes do have a changing table in the restroom.  It 
    pulls down out of the wall.  Not sure if it was with
    Southwest or United that they had one.   It probably
    depends on the type of plane also.
    
    We have flown with Ryan twice.  But this was in the first
    4 months.   Now if we were to fly with him at 9 months,
    I would probably bring plenty of cherios, and foods for him
    to nibble on.  One thing he did enjoy on the plane was the
    movie.  Even though there wasn't sound, he enjoyed looking
    at the screen. 
    
    When you make your reservations, please tell the airline that
    you are flying with an infant.  They usually will advise you
    (as already mentioned) to book and window and isle seat.  
    
    Good luck,
    
    Jeanne
    

    At what age/size do you buy the child her own seat?  Does this depend
    on the length of the flight?  Do you feel much safer installing the car
    seat on the plane?  Do you buy a seat for your young child even if the
    airline doesn't require it?
    
    I remember a tip from an earlier PARENTING.  It sounded very useful. 
    The parents rented a luggage cart in the airport, put the carseat on
    top of their luggage, and the child perched in the carseat to avoid all
    the walking.  I like the sound of that, especially if you have to
    change planes.  I would certainly check through everything except a
    shoulder bag, if I were to lug a carseat on board.
    

    
    WE do a lot of hiking, and found using the backpack we already had was 
    preferable to strollers.  Baby gets to see a lot, and both hands are
    free.
    
    Your stew should be able toshow you the safest way to strap the baby
    in.  If you can get an open middle seat, what we have done (Sophie
    travelled 5 times in her first ten months!) was to out an airline
    pillow on each side, and one in front, THEN buckle up.  Add one
    passifier, and the white noise of the plane after takeoff, and you are
    almost guaranteed a sleeping cherub. 
    
    
    Jamd

    When we went to Europe in March with our daughter (who turned 2 this
    week), we enjoyed using the bulkhead seats.  It is true that the
    carry on bags have to go somewhere else, but there was more leg room in
    front of our seats, which helped us.  If we hadn't brought the car seat
    it might have been hard since the arms don't go up on those seats (so
    we couldn't lie her across several seats), but we did bring the car
    seat, and it was a great place for her to sleep.  Ours has a recline
    setting, so she was more comfortable in the car seat than she would
    have been without it.
    
    We also repeatedly read "Going on an Airplane" by Fred Rogers before
    the trip, and took the book along ("This is what we are doing now").
    
    For shorter trips when she was younger, we didn't worry at all about
    bulkhead seats, etc.  Then she just enjoyed looking around, at
    passengers and out the window.
    
    Beryl

re: when to buy an extra seat for the child:

Most airlines allow you to bring a baby on the plane for free until they turn 
two.  Any baby really is much safer if they are strapped into their own seat
regardless of the age.  If you cannot afford the extra $ for a ticket for you
child, try to travel at off peak times, and solicit the help of the ticketing
agent to get seats where there is the greatest chance of an open seat right
next to you (ex a window and aisle seat with an empty seat between).  Then
bring your car-seat with you.  If there is an empty seat next to you at boarding, 
they will let you bring on your car-seat for the baby (provided it is FAA 
approved - most newer models are)

For your own comfort, I do not recomend traveling with a toddler on your lap.
Asside from not being safe, an almost-two-yr-old will not be happy about sitting 
on your lap for hours in a crowded plane.  I flew 4 times with my daughter before
she turned two (14 flights, if you include plane changes and round trips!). 
She had her own seat for most of the flights, and was generally pretty easy-going
the whole time.

However - on our most recent trip for my grandfather's funeral we could not
afford a separate ticket for Michelle.  (Grandpa didn't give us a weeks notice,
so tickets were $1,000 a piece!)  So we took a chance that there would be an 
extra seat on the plane for her.  The flight down was very comfortable.  There 
was an extra seat, and Michelle was quite happy playing and eating in her 
car-seat most of the trip. But the plane was full for the flight back so I had 
to keep her on my lap.  She was MISERABLE!  She screamed and fought for the
entire 3-hour plane flight.  I am not sure who I felt worst for - Michelle, me,
or the passengers around us.  There is no way I will ever get on a plane with
a toddler on my lap again.

    This latest air fare war has made it affordable for us to afford 3
    seats to visit Grandma and Grandpa.  We plan to bring the car seat on
    board and use it enroute.
    
    I'm undecided about the bulkhead seats.  Probably we won't request them
    because my daughter is happiest with a view of the action.  If we put
    her in an aisle seat away from the bulkhead where there's often a
    curtain to first class, she'll have a better view.  We can easily climb
    out of the inner seats since the carseat won't extend over the edge of
    the seat.  And I'd like to have the carry-on bags handy for snacks and
    amusement items.
    
    Boy is this a great deal!  We cut the usual 2-3 day drive down to a 1/2
    day flight, so I'll only use 6 vacation days rather than 10.  Am I a
    happy camper!  MOMMY is the one who needs the vacation most!  Those
    other days will provide several long weekends.
    
    Laura
    
    

Laura,

    Federal regulations require that you put the car seat in the window-seat.
Basically they don't want the car-seat to interfere with anybodies ability to 
get out of the plane quickly in an emergency.  But the view is pretty good 
from the window seat as well ;-).

    I'm  glad you were able to purchase an extra seat.  I think everybody will
find the trip much more pleasant.

    Oh - one more travel tip:  During pre-boarding, my husband got on the plane
with the car-seat and all our carry-on luggage.  Michelle and I stayed off the 
plane as long as possible and played in the lobby.  We got on at the very last 
minute, strapped ourselves in, and the plane was off.  I think we managed to 
reduce the amount of time Michelle had to be strapped into her car-seat by at
least a half hour.

    Happy traveling.

- Carol

    
    As far as the carry-on bags and  the bulkhead seats...
    Can't you get them down and leave them down once you're in the air?
    
    I would think the bulkhead seats would be good so you baby can
    stand in front of you if he wants...rather than use the aisle.
    
Kristen

    Kristen:
    
    We flew the end of June, and had bulkhead seats.  IT WAS WONDERFUL!  We
    stowed our carryons until in flight and they could be taken out, but
    there was enough room for our Kristen to stretch and walk.  Also, it
    was close to the area where the stewardesses were (near first class)
    and she got more attention than any other plane trip (she is two).
    
    Jolene

Re: Bulkhead seats

The amount of "extra" room that you will get depends greatly on the type
of aircraft that you will be flying on.  The bigger planes (747, DC10, etc.)
can give quite a bit of extra room with the bulkhead.  This is not true with
the medium to smaller planes (727, 737).  So, this may affect your decision
to go with bulkhead seats.

Re: Age limit

I just called today to get information on prices.  I asked specifically what
the age limit was for being required to purchase a ticket.  I was told that
the age was 2 or under and that a birth certificate may be required if the
child looks older.  With the low fares I decided to go ahead and purchase
a ticket anyway for my daughter (2.1).  With these low fares, I don't want
to take the chance of not having an empty seat.  Speaking from lots of 
experience, I agree that if at all possible, buy that extra ticket.  Three
hours does not sound like alot of time until you having a squirming, screaming
toddler in your lap and no place else to go.

Re: placement of car seat

I think someone else mentioned it, but if you do take and use a car seat on
board, FAA requires the seat to be placed in the window seat.  You also cannot
sit in an aisle with a window exit, so make sure to check your seating 
assignment before boarding to avoid any hassles.

Barbara

    Re: Kids travelling free until they're two
    
    This only applies to flights within the US (maybe Canada) and not to 
    intercontinental flights.  When we flew from London to Houston last
    Christmas with our (then) 4 1/2 month old, it cost us 10% of a regular 
    priced ticket (not the discount we got for booking early and accepting 
    restrictions). This was with American Airlines.  
    
    And what did we get for our 57 pounds ($80)?  This gave us the
    privelage of an extra piece of luggage for the baby.  We also got a
    plastic AA pin and a book of games. Very useful for a 4 month old.
    I was not impressed.
    
    This is a 9-10 hour flight.  Iain was a hero! He didn't cry a lot and
    the galley was his favourite place. There were so many shiny things to 
    look at.
    
    LaDonna

We travel by plane frequently and have done so since our children were infants.
In Europe and on transatlantic flights you pay 10-20% of a full fare ticket
for a child under two years of age.  In general, what you get for your money
depends on the airline.  In my experience, I have gotten absolutely nothing
from Air France to excellent baby service including diapers, baby food,
appropriate toys, preferential seating and stewardesses willing to look after
my baby while I eat while keeping my choice of meal for me from Swissair.

In Europe on all flights that I have been on for the last few years, parents
holding an infant in their lap on landing and takeoff are required to use
a special seat belt for the child which fixes to the adult belt.  I've never
seen someone travelling with a car seat but I suppose it's possible.

For transatlantic flights for infants less than 6 months old, there are special 
cots which hang from the luggage racks where babies can comfortably sleep.

By the way, I had a 10 month old scream for the entire 9 hours of a trans-
atlantic flight once.  Great fun.  

Cheryl

We have travelled "Charter class" across the Atlantic several times Canada -
UK and each time, the rules were child under 2 was free ... over 2 ...
full charter class fare to a maximum of the off-season adult fare.  This
with Air Canada, British Airways, CPAir (now Canadian), Wardair, British
Midland and KLM.  Charter class referring to either "holiday flights" on
Charter Carriers, or to Super Apex or equivalent on scheduled flights.

Now the scheduled carriers did have a different fare structure if you
travelled on economy or discounted economy fare, where an infant is 10%, child
(using a seat) is 30-50% and adult is full (discounted or otherwise) fare.

Stuart

    Funny, everytime we've flown with Michael's carseat we've strapped it
    into the seat between us, and no one's said a word.  I don't doubt that
    it's federal regulations to put it in the window seat; I just think
    it's interesting that the flight attendants we've had didn't enforce
    it.
    
    Steve

re: .32

Steve,

You are absolutely right.  None of the airlines (even the same airline) seem
to enforce the rules the same.  Makes it very frustrating when you have done
something on your last n trips and then someone tells you "Sorry you can't
do that".

This is especially true regarding the use of child seats.  

Barbara

    
    I don't know where else to find this out, so maybe someone out there
    can help me...
    
    What is the node/name of the DISNEY notesfile???
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Chris
    

re: .34

>    I don't know where else to find this out, so maybe someone out there
>    can help me...

	First, try NOTES> DIR 9.*

	That will give you a listing of notesfiles on subjects related 
	to Parenting.

	If you don't find what you want there, consult the notesfile
	mentioned in 9.15

>    What is the node/name of the DISNEY notesfile???
    
	See 9.11

Clay Satow
co-moderator    

    re:.34
    
    Disney is located on CLOSET::DISNEY.  
    
    Enjoy, lots of good reading whether or not your planning a trip!

    I recall seeing in another notes file (PARENTING_V3 or V2, HOLIDAY_TRAVEL) 
    a long string of replies discussing pros/cons of various auto travel routes 
    between E.MA and NJ, including such things as pointers to the best rest
    stops, bathroom facilities, etc.
    
    Rather than start a redundant note, I tried looking for the notes using
    keywords, titles, etc, but so far have come up empty. Does anyone with a 
    better memory than me recall seeing such a note? and could you point me
    to it?
    
    Thanks in advance...
    
    Freddie

    
    We will be going on vacation next week and will be taking our 6 1/2
    month old daughter.  We are going to Navarre Beach, FL.  We are leaving
    on Thursday and returning on Sunday.
    
    My concern is -  How will my daughter tolerate a 6 - 7 hour drive?  She
    hates her car seat.  I have a hard time driving home at night and it is
    only a 30 minute drive.  How do you entertain a 6 1/2 month old?  My
    other concern is once we get to Florida.  Since a baby should not be
    out in the sun for long I need suggestions on what to do during the
    day.
    
    I am about to cancel the trip for fear it could be a diaster.  Has any
    one made a trip like I will be making with a baby and what did you do
    to make the trip enjoyable?
    
    Any suggestions will be appreciated!

    Last year we travelled to North Carolina with my daughter who was 9
    months old at the time.  It takes more than 15 hours.  She also hates
    sitting in the car.
    
    A few suggestions:
    
    Change her diaper before returning to the car after each break.  You
    want to keep her as dry and clean as possible for comfort and to reduce
    possibility of diaper rash.
    
    Feed her at each break.  Even a few ounces of milk will help.
    
    Figure on stopping about every 2 hours.  It is also better for the
    driver's alertness, anyway.
    
    Have one parent sit in the back seat to entertain the child.  Talk
    about anything, point to sights outside the window, jiggle toys, bring
    little musical toys or tapes, anything to grab her attention.
    
    If your child loves seeing people, carry her around at the rest stop
    and let people admire her.  She will enjoy the attention.  Consider
    putting her in a cute outfit.  
    
    Since your drive is 6 hours, consider doing it in the evening.  For
    instance, have dinner at 4 p.m. and get in the car at 5 p.m.  After a
    busy day of packing and playing, she may well sleep for the whole trip. 
    If she doesn't wake up during breaks, one parent should stay in the car
    while the other runs to the restroom.  Or just drive all the way
    through.  Even if her normal bedtime is 7 or 8, fatigue, a full meal,
    and the car sound can easily knock her out at 5 p.m.
    
    Or, consider leaving at the start of her morning nap, taking a long
    lunch break, and continuing with her afternoon nap.
    
    If you are staying at a high-rise hotel or apartment, you will be tied
    down when your daughter naps and when she goes down for the night,
    unless you are visiting a grandparent or hire a sitter.  To me, this is
    the major drawback of such a vacation.  If you are staying in a
    bungalow, at least you can sit outside and read while she sleeps.
    
    There must be non-beach things to do in the area.  Have you checked a
    guidebook?  The AAA books are very thorough, for example.
    
    L

At that age, she should (hopefully) sleep for at least a couple hours...
I took my son on a flight from Boston to L.A. at that age and it was
manageable...

How to entertain:
o Songs/singalong tapes (can be very calming - usually gets their attention)
o "New" toys/objects they haven't seen before
o One or two "favorite" toys (my son's was a "glitter bar" rattle)
o Baby books with bright pictures (if someone can hold it in front of her)
o Finger/hand games (like "pat-a-cake", "itsy bitsy spider", etc.)

RE sun:
o SUNSCREEN/Sunhats
o Beach umbrella if you have one
o Light cotton jacket with sleeves
o Sand always facinates them!

Non-sun activities:
o Strolling/people-watching - find a park... watch the dogs, kites,etc.
o Shopping malls (especially toy stores)

It takes some effort, but it's more fun than staying home!! Good luck!

-Cori

    - Get sunshades for the car windows.  I like the inexpensive sheets of
    grey plastic that stick to the glass.  If you apply them smoothly, you
    can even roll down the window with the shade stuck on.  My daughter
    used to hate having the sun glare in her eyes.
    
    - Don't raise your (and your spouse's) expectations about "making good
    time."  Be prepared for one or more extended breaks if necessary. 
    Discuss this in advance so neither party gets anx'd.
    
    - My daughter really hated the car seat with the bar that swings down
    overhead.  We borrowed a car seat that has just straps.  She doesn't
    like sitting still, but at least she is not uncomfortable in the seat. 
    There's a long discussion in the PARENTING car seat note.
    
    L

Sorry this is longer than I expected when I started...I guess I am really
looking forward to my holiday!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a great topic because we (my husband, son and I) are leaving for
a holiday in Italy this Saturday.  My son is 7 months old.  We live in
France just near Geneva so we will be driving.  

I am not even sure how long it will be from Geneva to our destination near 
Florence....my husband is probably too frightened to tell me.  It doesn't 
matter though because I am so excited about having the week with both of 
them that I wouldn't care how long it takes to get there!  

This isn't our first holiday because we travelled to the States in May 
for one month to visit the grandparents.  First Boston, then California,
then back to Boston.  We have also been to Ireland to see the other
grandparents.  Sean is *usually* a great traveller.  

Yet, in the last two weeks, he has reached a different stage.  He has 
just learned to really crawl and to stand and it is *all* he wants to 
be doing.

I tried to take him on a 35 km trip last Sunday in the car and he
screamed practically the entire way!  Finally the friend that I was
with had to climb into the back of the car to keep him amused ----
unfortunately, that didn't work either.

We have the sunblinds and toys galore in the car already.  I think
Sean's troubles are two-fold:  

a.) he doesn't like facing towards the rear of the car; and,
b.) he is *very* active.

My husband calls Sean the human muscle because when he is in his car
seat he is never just sitting (unless he is asleep).  He is usually 
straining with all of his might to sit up straighter or turn around.

I am planning on investing in the next phase of car seat today which 
allows him to face to the front of the car.  Also it will allow him to 
swing his legs more (it is a bit tight now) and to burn off some energy 
that way.  (I have read all the related notes and it seems like the time 
is right.)

As well, we are going to plan very frequent stops.  I agree with .41 
about not setting expectations for arrival.  My husband will be arriving
this Saturday from a week in the U.S. on business (will be just off
the plane).  And I have been doing all the organizing, packing etc.  
So I have planned a *very* leisurely drive.

I have a cooler and plan to pack a picnic lunch.  We'll stop a few times 
for some bread and cheese.  There's champagne for when we reach our 
destination. 

Stopping will give Sean the time to crawl about and burn off all of 
his energy and get something to eat.  Then he will (most likely) sleep 
when we are back in the car.  The trouble with last weekend's trip was 
that he slept for one hour just before we left and for 45 minutes just 
before we returned.  So he was wide awake and bored during the drive.

Sean also loves it when John and I sing to him.  Thanks to my niece 
in the U.S., he recognizes a lot of songs and smiles while we sing 
them. (Although other people in the car usually have to suffer ;-) ).

As for what to do when you are there, I know what we are going to do
is find some shade!  I like the sun being from Boston but don't 
really enjoy sitting in it all day.  My husband is Irish and shouldn't
be sitting in it all day.  So we spend some time in the sun, some
time in the shade.  Sean is just at the age where he is noticing 
everything new (grass, rocks, etc).  We just love to watch him find
all the new things.

At the beach, we have an umbrella for Sean or we find a shady spot.
I bought him a *really* tiny blow up pool which we fill with just a 
couple buckets of water and he splashes around in it.  Actually what he does 
is crawl in and out of it, but it keeps him busy.  With plenty of
sunblock, we've never had a problem.  Also, we usually try to do
the off hours at the beach (e.g. 2pm onwards).  We take turns swimming
while he is in the baby pool.

We also have a stroller and a backpack.  Sean loves the backpack
because when he is on John's back he can see everything for miles.
When we go for walks, he will even fall asleep in it!  So we will 
go for walks.  

We plan to visit Florence and Sienna (1 day each).  Probably Pisa.  
We will space these trips out to be every other day.  The day inbetween 
John can go for a cycle (he loves the mountains) and Sean & I will enjoy 
the pool.

I can't wait!  

Hope you have a great vacation!

Cheers,

 Carol

    
    I just went through this with my 6 month old...1 week ago...
    We drove to St. Pete. 
    
    He hates his car seat as well, but for some reason he was so
    good....he had his whiny moments but he was real happy most of
    the time.  We have a mini-van and I sat with him in the middle
    seat when he was awake. 
    
    We left about 11 am...I didn't let him take his morning nap and
    made sure he was hungry.  After his bottle he fell asleep for
    about an hour.
    
    The worst part was when we stopped and then tried to put him back
    in the car seat.  Just be patient and only give him 1 toy at a time.
    Once he's bored, give him a different one.  I had a small mickey-mouse
    hand mirror he loved....I used the sun and made a spot and he watched
    that for 30 minutes.  Everytime he saw himself he'd smile.
    
    The 2nd 1/2 of my trip was flying.  I dreaded that more than the
    driving.
    
    But he did good...my flight was at 9 am and again, I made sure
    he was hungry and didn't let him have his morning nap.  Once I
    fed him on take off, he slept on the floor in front of me (I had
    the bulkhead seat, window) for 45 minutes When he was awake, I used 
    my mirror again and he watched it and tried to catch it for 30 minutes.
    
    Return was just as easy...again, I flew in the am.
    
    I'm glad it was easier than I thought it would be....just relax
    and the baby will probably do fine...
    
    Kristen

    I wanted to add something I found while shopping last weekend.
    
    At the Building 19 chain they were selling something called "Snoozie". 
    It's a brightly colored cloth cover, over a blow up cylinder (for lack
    of a better description) about the size of the blow up arm float
    things.  I paid .50 each, and bought 3 of them.  I'll provide a
    manufacturer's name and address if anyone wants to try and track them
    down through "normal" channels. (to the non-locals, Bldg 19 is a
    disorganized, discount store that buys things like railroad salvage,
    closeouts, seconds etc).
    
    Anyway, you blow these things up and put it on your shoulder and use it
    for sleeping in the car.  Designed for the post-car seat crowd, or even
    adults.  I had bought 3 anticipating that we might be driving to
    Florida with our niece and nephew later this month, but the inlaws will
    be doing it instead.  I will still leave one in my car, and one in
    hubby's truck, and keep one as a spare or gift.
    
    What can I say, I'm a "gadget freak" (as hubby calls me!)
    
    Lyn

Our recent trip to Maryland from our home in Cincinnati (10 hours by car 
without kids) brought back memories of when we lived in Maryland and drove
to Cincinnati for Thanksgiving when Robbie was 6.5 months old.  We happened
to stop at the same rest area where we had to put down Robbie's blanket
and let him crawl around on the floor of the tourist info center,
which fortunately was carpeted.  He was so tired of being in that car
that we let him crawl around for a good 15-20 minutes.  This just
reinforces what others have said.  DO NOT EXPECT TO MAKE THE TRIP 
IN ANYTHING LIKE THE NORMAL DRIVING TIME.

This time he went into the Tourist Info Center and politely asked the 
attendant for information about our destination.  I'm not sure he
really believed me when I showed him the back corner where he had crawled 
around eight years ago.

Frank

    My niece, 7 and my nephew 5 next week, are returning home to
    Jacksonville Florida this Friday.  My inlaws will be driving from
    Central MA to FL early Friday morning.  I would like to send along a
    "goodie bag" of travel/car games and crafts for both.  The obvious
    things like crayons and color books, a travel size spirograph come to
    mind, but what else could I get. 
    
    These kids are extremely well behaved, and they will be taking the trip
    in 2.5 days, spending two nights  in hotels along the way.  (For those
    of you who remember my note this past Christmas of trying to get these
    kids home by plane, and we wern't successful, these are *the* kids!)
    My inlaws brought them up in late June and have continously raved about
    how well behaved they are in the car, but I've got a few concerns about
    leaving things like crayons, that melt, in the car when the AC isn't
    running.
    
    I'd probably buy any travel game they make, but real life suggestions
    would be the best.
    
    I only know we're going to miss them, and who know how long it will be
    before we see them again.  We're going to have a cookout this week for
    the family to say good bye.
    
    Lyn
    

One of the great successes on our car trips has been a traveling bingo
sort of game.  I don't know the name of it or where my wife bought it.
Somewhere in Southern NH.

But anyhow, it consists of two grids which each hold 5 rows and 5 columns
of blocks.  Each block has five pictures numbered 1-5 and the sixth side
has an X.

Each player gets a tray  and turns all his/her pictures to a chosen number 
(the items get more difficult as the numbers go up, so sometimes Mom will be 
on 3 while the kid is on 1.)  As you find the item, you turn your block over 
to the X.  You can play standard bingo arrangements, cover-all or whatever 
you want.  It's all pictures so the kids don't have to be reading to play.  

We've had this thing for probably four years, and so far, we still have all
50 blocks!

Hope my description makes sense!

Frank

    
    Hello,
    
    	I had traveled quite a bit with my son when he was only a year.  He
    always sat on my lap on planes.  If the plane wasen't full, the
    atendants would move us to where there were extra seats.
    	My brother is marketing a new product that is perfect for traveling
    with small children.  I have one and it is the best thing I have ever
    used.  Its called TravelSafe and is a kit full of those things you
    would need when staying over in a hotel.  Like those outlet plugs and
    door knob covers.  It also contains first aid materials and
    information.
    
    If anyone wants more information please contact me by mail.
    
    SWAM2::MASSEY_VI
    CWO DTN 533-7885
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Virginia

We're taking the kids to Florida for Thanksgiving this year, and I've got
a couple of questions.  We'll be flying down, so I'm trying to minimize the
amount of equipment I need to take.  Since we won't be buying tickets for
them (they'll only be 19 months old), I don't plan on bringing their 
carseats as we will be able to rent them with the rental car.  We may have
to bring the porta-cribs if we stay at my husband's cousin's condo, but we
won't know if we can have it til the time gets closer (his cousin's kids
naturally get first choice, and I don't know if any of them will be going
down then).  If not, we'll be staying at a hotel, so will just use the 
cribs they supply.  I'm wondering, though, if I need to bring the double
stroller.  It seems to me that most of the places we will be taking them
(possibly Disney World, Sea World, the Miami Zoo) will all have strollers
we can rent, and I'm wondering if I should plan on that instead.  We'll
already be carrying the 2 kids, our luggage, plus whatever we have to
carry-on to keep them amused.  And I know it would probably be easier if
they had their own seats on the airplane, but after 16 months of my husband
being unemployed and now just returning to work, it's not really in the 
budget.  And next year, we'll have to buy them seats, so I figure we can
suffer through 1 trip this year.  I've already read all the notes in this
string for help on things to pack.  I'm just looking for some guidance on
the stroller and anything I may have forgotten.

Thanks,
Cathy

    Cathy-
    
    I would definitly (SP?) bring some type of double stroller.  You
    and the kids will probably get tired along the way and carrying them
    occupies both you and your spouse.  I would recommend a double umbrella
    stroller as opposed to a big one.  It folds small and can be tucked
    someplace on the plane.  (By the way, have you looked into renting 
    port-a-cribs?  I was just wondering as we are also planning a trip
    and will need cribs.)  
    
    Jennifer
    

    re. 49

    Cathy,

    I would vote for bringing your own stroller. Have it already boxed up
    before you get to the airport - I once waited and had the baggage folks
    do it at the airport and was not pleased with the packaging.

    The reasons we took our own stroller:

    1. Comfort for the child - DW, Sea World, etc do not have the most
       comfortable strollers, or well designed ones for shade, etc.

    2. Ease of use - ours had the right kind of pockets/shelf/baskets for
       all the junk, handles that supported the mega-bag for necessities, and
       pushed easier than the rental ones.

    We never worried about it disappearing (I'm sure it's happened,
    however) - and often left the bag right on it as well. It can be a bit
    of a hassle in carrying in and out of the parks/setting up & down to go
    through the parking lots, on the trams, but definitely worth it once you
    are in the park.

    FWIW - think about what you might have to bring to make the hotel room
    baby proof, and do it right when you arrive.

    Have fun,

    JR

    
    
    We have travelled to the west coast and Chicago twice
    since Novemeber.  To make the load lighter on the plane,
    we have found sending the porta crib and other heavy
    baby apparatus via UPS the week before.  Then we send
    it back the day we are leaving.  This has made travelling
    so much easier for us.  
    
    This of course only works if you have someone that you
    can send the items to.  
    
    Jeanne
    

    

    I'll add my two cents on using the hotel crib(s). We did this recently
    at a very nice resort at the cape, and I was disappointed to see that
    they had set up a standard wooden crib, fairly old-fashioned. It would
    have been fine for an infant who tends not to stand or move around but
    seemed pretty wobbly for our active 1 yr old. We ended up using the
    portacrib we had in the car (for the next portion of our trip) instead.
    
    So, you might want to ask the hotel specifics about the cribs they make
    available to you before deciding not to rent/bring your own.
    
    regards,
    

    A couple of things to consider....
    
    If you're on a tight budget, check to see how much it would
    cost to take your own stroller and then see what the rental
    rates would be.  If cost is a major consideration, I'm sure
    you could call the parks and ask for their rates.
    
    Also don't forget you'll have to get from the car to the park 
    and BACK!  I haven't seen the strollers available to rent until
    you're already in the park (it may differ park to park).  
    Carrying the kids and stuff on the way in probably won't be too 
    bad.  But carrying tired, overworked kids and all the souveniers 
    from the park to the car may not be too pleasant!
    
    If it was me, I think I'd bring my own stroller.  I think the kids 
    would be more comfortable in their own stroller - there's going to 
    be plenty of "new" things going on around them all day so it would 
    probably be comforting to at least have *something* familiar.
    
    One more thing...Will you be doing other site-seeing - walking along 
    a boardwalk, in and out of stores, etc.?   Are there other places 
    (besides in the parks) that you can rent strollers for general use?
    
    Conni

Having flown recently, I noticed that United does "gate checking" of things
like strollers.  Basically, you give it to the flight attendant when you
board and they run it down to the baggage compartment.  Then when you get off
you wait at the gate for it.

Lots of parents were doing it.  You don't have to lug it on and off the plane
and you have it to travel thru the airport.

Just an idea.  I would ask the specific airline about it; maybe United is the
only one that does it.

Pat

After checking into rental cars and the added expense of carseats ($40 per seat
per week), it seemed more economical to take along our own carseats, so we
called the airline (USAIR) to see how they'd handle that, and if it counts as
extra baggage.  It turns out that we can bring all the baby equipment (stroller,
car seats, porta-cribs) we want, and it all gets gate-checked for no extra
charge.  They said we are each allowed to bring on 2 carry-on pieces plus the
diaper bag, which doesn't count as a piece. I can't imagine how I'd actually
carry all that stuff plus the babies onto the plane, but they do allow it.

Based on that information, we've now pretty much decided to bring our own 
carseats and the stroller, but to leave the porta-cribs home and just use what
the hotel has.  I figure we can make do with whatever they provide and we can
just carry what I'd consider the most essential equipment.  We'll be checking
all our luggage except the stroller, which we will gate-check, and the diaper
bag which I plan to fill with food (my kids would rather eat than play) and
essentials for the kids.  That way, we won't have to deal with lots of stuff
between planes.

Thanks for all the suggestions.  

Cathy

    
    We just finished traveling from Boston to Los Angeles (and back again)
    with Allison (18 months).  We bought her a seat and brought the carseat
    on board.  We gate checked the umnbrella stroller.  Actually, they 
    wound up putting it in the closet with the suit bags so it was on board the
    flight.  This was on American.  There were lots of families.  The only
    thing I had trouble with was changing diapers.  Bathroom was too
    cramped so we wound up doing it on the seats.
    
    	ALso, we stayed at two different hotels.  The Best Western had
    a rickety crib.  It was ok.  The Marriott had the GRACO port-a-crib.  
    I brought our my own crib sheets just for comfort.

    I just stayed in Kansas City overnight with my daughter (9 months) -
    I stayed at the Embassy Suites - their crib wasn't the nicest thing
    but it was sturdy and the mattress was pretty firm....
    
    I would think that any hotel that would lend a crib would make sure
    it was pretty safe - may not be comfortable but I wouldn't worry about
    the safe part.......
    
    

>>    I would think that any hotel that would lend a crib would make sure
>>    it was pretty safe - may not be comfortable but I wouldn't worry about
>>    the safe part.......
    
We have only once gotten a hotel crib, and it was unusable.  We went back
out to the car and brought our porta-crib in (brought along just in case).
If we hadn't had the portacrib along, our son would have had to sleep in
our bed.  The crib was that bad.

The hotel was not the greatest - I'd expect better results in a better
quality hotel.
		cheryl

    We have travelled with our now 23 month old and have not found a good
    rental crib yet.  This last trip to Florida in June we used the crib
    mattress, brought some of his sheets with us and set him up on the
    floor with a few cushions  around him.  He slept well.  He did get up
    in the morning and wake us up but slept through the night.
    
    Most of the cribs we have rented, either through an agency or hotel
    (and some of the hotels have been nice) were short, wooden and rickety
    just like others have said here.  John was big enough to shake the
    thing to death.
    
    Glad you are bringing the car seats.  We brought ours and then checked
    the plane load.  In your case the flights around Thanksgiving might be
    full but United was nice about trying to find us seats in back where we
    might be able to stretch out.  Really made a difference in travelling.
    
    Of course don't forget a favorite toy or blankie or book.  

    RE: .55
     Beware the gate checkin of the stroller.  United forced us to do the
    gate checkin and when we go it back it was broken in two places, one
    plastic and the other was one of the metal support tubes.  We ended up
    buying a new one.
    

    Cathy--
    
    We just got back from Orlando with our kids (5 1/2 and 3 1/2).  We
    brought an umbrella stroller, which I would recommend.  I would
    definitely recommend the double stroller for you.  Even our kids took 
    turns in the stroller and I sometimes wished we had two.  You can rent 
    strollers at all these places, but that's one more long line you have to 
    wait in every day (not to mention one more expense).  (You may want to 
    rent at Sea World, though; they have adorable strollers that look like 
    dolphins!)  Don't count on not losing your stroller, however; put an
    identifying tag on it. Even with a double stroller, there will be
    others like it.  We ended up with a new stroller when someone walked
    off with ours, leaving theirs--same model, but much newer.  We felt
    bad, but couldn't find the people to swap back.
    
    We also brought a booster car seat.  We had been told that it was the 
    law in Florida that children under five be in a car seat.  I don't know
    if that's true, but I was definitely more comfortable with Paige in her
    seat.  On the way down, she sat in it on the plane; on the way back, we
    checked it with no problem.  We flew U.S. Air both ways.  
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    -Tracy
    
     
    
    

    The boys and I like to play educational games in the car.  Here are
    some of our favorites:
    
    
    1.  GEOGRAPHY
    
        o  Guess what country I'm thinking of-- it begins with the letter ___.
           (Watching Carmen Sandiago really helps us with this one!)
    
           Variations: What state am I thinking of?
                    
                    Or I name a country and they have to tell me the 
                    continent.
    
                    Or I name a major city and they have to tell me the
                    state.
    
    2.  MATH
    
         o  Basic addition, subtraction, easy multiplication.
    
            Variations:  Using money instead of just the numbers ("If I
                         have two quarters, a dime, and three pennies, how
                         much do I have?").
    
                         Using word problems-- "If Chris, James, and Jeff
                         want two donuts each, how many do I have to buy?"
    
     3.  SPELLING
    
          o  I quiz them on words as we pass objects-- leaves, pumpkins,
             and so on.
    
     4.  What do these three things have in common?  Such as, "Cars,
         trucks, and bikes."
      
     
    
    
    The boys love these games, and I like that fact that they're using
    their brains...  Any other ideas?

    A no-brainer that Alex and I play is Alphabet... each of you has to
    find each letter of the alphabet, in order, written on some object 
    outside of the car (in other words, you can't use the DEF from the
    Defrost lever on your dashboard!).  The players can't share a letter;
    if you pass "Quality Foods!" only the player who calls the Q gets to
    "use" it.
    
    Then there's 20 Questions, which I've found to be a very good logic-
    enhancer for Alex.  The almost mandatory question(s) "is it animal,
    vegetable or mineral?" brought on a long, funny discussion ("a paper
    and an eraser are both *vegetable*??!").  Since Alex is only 7 and I've
    been known to bend the rules and my play in her favor (she always gets
    the Qs  :-) ), I count animal/veg/mineral as one question of the 20.
    
    Leslie
    
    P.S.  Oh, and make sure the kids know it's 20 *total* questions, not
          just 20 where the answer was "yes"  :-}

    My daughter will be one in January and we are planning a vacation.
    I would really like to take her.  If my sister came kind of as a 
    nanny...there would always be two of us free to take off and play.
    We are thinking Jamaica...Cancun...something like this...has anyone 
    taken a child this age and what are the pro's and con's?  My husband
    doesn't want to take her......I could cry everytime I think of having 
    to work and not be with her...can't imagine getting a week off and 
    leaving her behind!
    
    Any and all input would be appreciated!
    
    Linda

    My husband and I took Marc to St. Martin in April '90 when he was 6
    months old.  We took along our 18-year-old neighbor as a nanny.  We
    stayed in a cottage (not a hotel) right on the beach, so we were able
    to prepare meals at the house.  Marc was eating primary babyfood at
    that time, but this would be even more of an issue with a 1-year-old.
    Also, being right on the beach, we didn't have to get in the car every
    day if we didn't want to, and we were able to sit in the sun outside
    the house while he napped.
    
    It was fun having him along, although it was a lot more expensive (we
    needed a larger cottage since there were 3 adults, plus we paid the
    nanny's entire travel expenses, plus a small amount of spending money).
    We need to bring a lot more _stuff_ - always the case when travelling
    when an infant.  I like to be completely self-sufficient, so I filled
    up a whole suitcase with diapers and babyfood jars, rather than buy
    them locally.
    
    You also get tied down to much more of an eating/sleeping schedule. 
    The nanny we took understood that she was there primarily to work, 
    so we were able to work out a schedule that gave us a couple of 
    free days/evenings, but your sister might not be so accomodating.
    
    Since then, we've taken two extended vacations without him (at 18 mos.
    and 2 1/2).  He stayed at grandma's house both times.  There are other
    notes on those trips in here somewhere.

    I too have travelled with kids that age, and it can be tiring, and it
    is a lot of work. However, if you would not enjoy yourself without your
    daughter, and you can work out a nanny, that might be ideal.
    
    There are two kinds of vacations for parents, I've decided: those with
    the kids and those without. They serve different purposes and provide
    different kinds of gratification. I've done both, and both are
    important. Maybe you and your husband can talk about what you each
    would like to get out of this trip (time together as family vs. time
    together as couple, for example), then go from there.
    
    Have fun!
    
    Lucy

re: .67, .68

     I think .68 gives an excellent summation, and I wholeheartedly agree
with Lucy's categorization.  We had the chance to go to Hawaii when our
daughter was eight months old.  We left her with my parents along the way.
     We had a great time.  My parents had a great time.  Lara seemed to have
a great time also.  Of course there were frequent phone calls.
     I can understand both your reluctance to take a vacation without your
child, and I can also understand your husband's wanting to go without your
child.  I think it's important to realize that the effect of a baby on a
marriage is not only to strengthen it, but it also tends to stress it.  Don't
neglect that.  Being parents and being spouses are two different
relationships, and both need attention.

Clay

    We're flying from Boston to California with our 3-year-old at the end
    of December.  Since he's now a regular person :-) he'll have his own
    seat.  This is Marc's first "real" airplane trip (other than the trip
    to St. Martin when he was 6-months-old, which he doesn't remember).
    
    Does anyone know if California requires full car seats for 3-year-olds? 
    Or would just a booster seat for the car be O.K?  Also, should I bring 
    a booster seat on the airplane, or can he just sit in the regular seat?
    
    How about a stroller?  He hasn't sat in a stroller for a long time, but
    it's usually a long walk to anywhere in airports, and we'd probably
    end up carrying him, especially if we were in a hurry.  Is there any
    way he can sit in/on the luggage carts?
    
    I've scanned this note for suggestions about airplane travel (tapes,
    books, toys, snacks, drinks).  Does anyone have any other ideas for a
    preschooler?  
    
    Also, we've booked the red-eye back (leaves 10 p.m., arrives in Boston
    at 6:30 a.m., although it'll really be 3:30 a.m.).  Does anyone have
    any experience with kids and overnight flights?  Will he really sleep?

Call the airline and ask them about the regulations for car seats in California.
Also ask them about the "car" seat rule on airplanes. I believe that for 
children at certain age/weight limits there is a requirement for a "car" seat.
I also believe that most airlines and rental car agencies provide them. For
your convenience it's one less thing to worry about lugging along with you.

At many major airports the stroller might be a good idea. I can remember lots
of times *I* could have used one :-). I'ld say that the only thing about my kids
traveling at that age I can remember is how obstinate they got at the end of a
long flight. If you can't get him to sit in it before you go it'll probably be
just one more thing to lug around. You'll probably be better off tipping a 
porter to move the luggage and carying the child if he insists.

All 3 of my kids were different about sleeping on airplanes. My oldest son
at age 3 would sleep through a rocket blast once he fell asleep. My middle one
would nap off and on. My youngest would never sleep anywhere but in a bed.
Even on red-eye flights your mileage will vary. If the plane is full there's
still lots of activity up and down the aisles. If it's empty you might not see
a soul between the meal and landing. The only thing I hated about long late 
night flights with my kids is that I didn't sleep on airplanes and they were
always raring to go when we landed!!

California's car seat law requires that all children under 40 lbs be restrained
in a car seat.  Booster seats are an option for children over 30 lbs depending
on the specifications of the booster.


California is a big (nation)state! Which airport/airline are you using?

Rochelle


P.S. We just came back from a trip to Jamaica -- the carseat was better for
sleeping because of the head support.

    Geez, Marc won't weigh 40 lbs. for years, at this rate :-)  Anyway, I
    called American Airlines, and they have no requirement about car seats. 
    Marc can just sit in the regular seat.  (Although on the return flight,
    good point about the head support for sleeping).  I also called Avis,
    and they rent car seats at the airport (L.A.) for $20/week, or $6/day.
    The full car seat is so clumsy, I'd rather not carry it.  I think maybe
    we'll try and do without it on the plane and rent one in L.A.

    
    Deb,
          
    The luggage carriers at the airport have a little seat,
    like on a grocery cart.  We have flown several times
    with our son and this has worked out well.
    
    I have seen them at Logan, Ohare and San Fran's airports.
    
    Enjoy your trip.
    
    Jeanne

We just flew from Boston to California this past September with our two
year old son. We took his full size car seat, just so it was familiar to
him while traveling in the rented car. We checked the car seat with the
luggage so that we didn't have to lug it around during lay overs. We also
brought our our car seat so that we KNEW the type of protection our son
would have. You never knnow what the rental is going to be like. MHO 

We also brought an umbroller, which was a blessing, to say the least. In
LAX, you walk to get your luggage, then take a bus to the car rental
terminal (a few miles away) and wait in long lines to get your car. The
umbroller came in handy, as Daniel got tired of walking and waiting and was
able to sit and watch all the people. We were also able to fold the
umbrolla and take it with us on various rides at the amusment parks. Full
size strollers were "parked" with hopes they would be there when you got
off the ride. 

    We've taken long trips with our kids when they were 1 and 3, again at
    2 and 4, and again at 3 and 5.  I DEFINITELY recommend taking the
    umbrella stroller.  Even if he doesn't want/need it, you can put
    luggage on it.  And when he is tired or fall asleep, you will be VERY
    glad to have it.  Have fun!
    
    -Tracy
     
    
    
    

Be careful about trusting a car rental place to have the car seat.  I got in
at midnight one night and the car rental place had *sworn* they would have
a seat reserved for me, then didn't.  As I recall, I raised holy he** and 
they finally located one.  One other rental agency had many *broken* car seats,
functional, but uncomfortable for the child.  I highly recommend that you bring
your own seat. It is safer in case of an emergency, both on the airplane and in
the car, will help your child see out the windows of the airplane, which helps
them enjoy the trip more, and has many other advantages which have been
mentioned here (head support, security, etc). 

     Carol

     I'm looking for advice about traveling with Twins on a plane.What
    services do they provide,what should I take on the plane.The twins will
    be about 7months when we travel.
    
     Thanks
    
             SCott

    funny you asked...  We recently traveled by plan with our 6 month old
    twins.  We didn't get any extra service from the airline, but we did 
    reserve our seats early, and got the bulkhead seat at the front.  Here 
    you have extra room, and can spread a blanket on the floor, and the
    kids can roll around.  We called at 5:30am on the day the airline said
    we could reserve seats.  Good luck...
    

	We leave for Florida on Friday.  Emily will not have
	her own seat, but I don't think the flight is sold out.

	We will be bringing her car seat with us.  My question is,
	will the airline allow us to carry on the car seat if we
	don't have a seat for Emily ?  If not, for those of you who
	have checked the car seat, did it arrive unscathed ?  Do you
	need to tell them at check-in that you want to "gate-check" the
	car seat (as opposed to regular baggage check) ?

	My husband suggested putting the car seat into it's original
	box, and checking it like that.  Would the airline count that
	as luggage, or would there be a charge ? 

	Finally, has anyone bought the car seat travel cover offered
	by the Right Start catalog ?  Was it worth the price ?
		
	Thanks,
	Karen

My twins were 19 months old when we took them to Florida for Thanksgiving,
so they didn't have seats on the plane.  We took the porta-cribs and the
car seats, and just checked them with the luggage, but they don't count
as extra luggage since they are baby-related items.  We didn't bother to
box any of the items, though I did pack the sheets and stuffed animals
in the porta-cribs to give the legs more support and protection from airline
handling. Everything arrived in fine condition.

And even at Thanksgiving when all the flights were sold out, we managed
to get 2 of the 4 flights with an extra seat for us to use which worked
out quite well.  We booked the aisle and window seats and hoped that the
middle seat would remain open. When it wasn't, we just switched the window
seat with the poor person who had gotten the middle seat assigned.

We didn't bother to gate check the car seats as we had enough to carry
with twins, their diaper bag (it's a regular piece of carry-on luggage)
and the food and toy bag.  I found that as long as we kept them snacking,
they were happy.  But then, food is a very important thing to my kids,
so that was no surprise to us, and we were well-prepared.

Cathy

    What we've always done in your situation is to take the carseat  to the
    gate with the full intention of taking it on the plane.  We just march
    right on to the plane with it and most of the time  we've found an
    unoccupied seat for the kid and carseat. 
    
    In a couple of cases when the plane was full, a flight attendant took
    the carseat away from us on the plane, took it down to the gate and
    checked it there. It worked out fine -- we removed the pad and
    shield and made sure there was a name tag on it. No damage.
    
    Lucy 

I second the suggestions in .82.

I have traveled to florida several times with my daughter (now almost three).
Although we were quite comfortable with her in my lap at 3 months - by 1 yr
she and I were both much more comfortable with her sleeping in her own chair.

- carol

    
    anybody found a way for one adult to take 5 month old twins on a plane?
    The wife is going back East soon and it looks like we'll get a friend
    from back East to come here and then fly back again just so she can
    hold one of the twins!
    
    Simon

    How about a back pack for one and carrying the other?  Contact the
    airlines and explain the problem.  You can certainly get assistance
    carrying everything to and from the gate and you'll need to buy at 
    least one seat for the twins.  Then (pre-arranged with airlines) 
    take a car seat for one twin and hold the other.  You should be able to
    accompany your wife to the gate and someone, possibly from the
    airlines, can meet your wife at the gate from the other end.
    
    I have found airlines to be very good about this if they know in
    advance.
    
    Cheryl

    
    Re the Right Start Seat Cover...
    When we've checked the car set, we've always just used 1-2 of the
    plastic bags they have, and stuffed the car set into those.  Sometimes
    a little extra tape from the porter helps, too!
    

Can you be more specific about what the problem is?

If the problem is that they don't want two babies on one adult's lap, could
she purchase a seat for one of the babies and bring their car-seat along?

    
    I will be traveling by air, with a 5 month old this summer.  I am
    new at this (she isn't even born yet), and I have not seen anyone
    mention a baby carrier instead of a car seat on the plane.  Do you
    assume that the baby is in a baby carrier, and the car seat is extra ?
    
    rke
    

    I had to take a plane trip with my daughter when she was 4 months old. 
    I brought her car seat, however, we had a Century 590 that doubled
    as the carrier.  I was lucky enough to have an empty seat next to me on
    both legs of the trip so I just strapped the seat in and she stayed
    there.  One thing I did bring was her snuggly pouch, I used that when I
    had to walk between terminals, wait in line to pick up my car, etc. 
    Much less cumbersome than carrying her in the car seat and trying to
    balance that with the diaper bag.
    
    TIP:  As soon as you can, book the bulkhead seat on each flight.  It's
    pretty much the only place you'll have space to change the baby during
    flight and if the seat next to you is taken you will have space on the
    floor to put the baby in the car seat.
    
    I was travelling solo and it wasn't bad.
    
    Susan

    I travelled with my five month old daughter at Christmas, and
    had a pretty hard time with the car seat.  The flights were
    booked solid from Colorado Springs to Boston.  I brought the car
    seat "just in case" there was an empty seat, and there wasn't.
    We were not supposed to change planes, but there was a problem
    in Denver, and had to carry the silly thing through the airport.
    I would recommend the carrier, it it light weight, and easily
    stored, just in case.  The only way to assure an empty seat
    next to you, is by purchasing another full fare.  :-(  
    Changing a baby on a plane *is* very difficult, the bathrooms
    aren't big enough.  I got dirty looks when I changed my 
    daughter. "Do any of these "businessmen" have children of 
    their own?" I thought to myself. It was an experience, but
    Jaime was pretty good on the six hour flight, and she made lots
    of friends.
    
                                       

Can you take a stroller onto a subway train?  

We will be in Washington, DC next month.  I've never been there with kids
before.  Would our 5 year old enjoy the White House tour?  Are there any
problems with a baby sling on a crowded subway, or not-so-crowded subway?
What other potential pitfalls should we be wary of?

       Carol

    Carol,
    
    We took Sarah to Washington, DC when she was 3 months old (and in
    August, too.  Can you say hot???).  We took the metro everywhere and
    never had a problem with her in the stroller.  There are elevators to
    bring you from the entrance level to the lower level where the trains are,
    and vice versa.  We saw tons of people with kids in strollers and
    backpacks.  For the most part, people were really helpful.  
    
    We had a well supported umbrella stroller and also brought the snugli
    pack.  The umbrella stroller was great but when she started to get a
    little fussy we just popped her into the snugli and she quieted right
    down.  In fact, we appreciated the snugli when we left the Smithsonian
    at closing time and there was a torrential downpour, after 30 minutes
    there was no letting up so we made a dash for it with her safely under
    a jacket.
    
    Have a great time, we were only there for a couple of days and I wish
    we could have stayed longer.
    
    Susan
    
      

    
    Carol - 
    
    You might also think about a backpack, if either of you is strong
    enough to carry 40 pounds.  The "Tough Traveller" is rated up to 45#
    easily, has a rain hood, and a small carrying pouch.  REI carries
    these. They have a padded hip band and a chest band, so the weight is
    well distributed.
    
    It's not as elegant, but Justin will get a great view!
    
    Jamd

Jamd, a backpack is an excellent idea, but I've never done well with one,
and Shellie's back has been bothering her lately.  We took a family walk this
weekend with the sling, since Shellie thinks she can nurse well with it.
It seemed to work okay.  We're considering having our 5 year old (40 lbs)
in a stroller and our 6 month old (13 lbs?) in the sling.

We'll be marching for a long ways, as part of the 1993 March on Washington
for Lesbian, Gay, and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation, so we need something
that we can handle for a long time of straight walking (excuse the pun).  :-)

    Carol

    
    Wear something recognisable in the walk, and we'll look for you
    on the TV reports!!!!!!
    
    
    Chris
    

<    Wear something recognisable in the walk, and we'll look for you
<    on the TV reports!!!!!!
    
We're going to try to put all 5 of us (us, the kids, and my mom) in yellow
shirts so we can find *each other*!  :-)  Maybe that will help you find us
amidst the other 999,995 people!  Let us know!  ;-)   We think we will march
with Colorado, but may march with the Parents and Children.  We will be sitting
with the parents and kids, anyway, close to the front of the stage after the
March. For any other parents planning to attend, they will be having a tent
full of activies for the kids and there is also a Parents and Children (of all
ages) banquet the night before the March.  The March is on Sunday, April 25. 

     Carol 

    My wife made a stroller-case out of an old pair of jeans and we
    checked the stoller in as luggage--it came out fine.
    
    So there may not be a "fits in overhead" requirement.
    
    I think we have the Gerry stroller, but I could be wrong.  It has
    a fold-over top, but wouldn't be suitable for strong rain.
    
    		-John Bishop

    how do babies cope with time zone changes?
    
    We have 8 month old twins, and they recently travelled to relatives in
    Florida from Colorado. I don't think they adjusted at all! Instead of
    up at 6am and bed at 8pm, it was up at 8am and bed at 10pm! Ie, they
    just kept on their biological clock. This after being on the East Coast
    for 2 weeks.
    
    Sooo, if I take one or both to England this summer (+7 hours) what the
    dickens hours will they keep? into bed at 3am? up at midday? Sounds
    like a teenagers schedule 8-)
    
    thanks! Simon

    Simon,
    it will prepare you for when the girl will be teenagers 8-).
    (We are planning a trip with Charlotte for September, to California,
    so maybe this is a warning for me too!)
    
    Monica

    Well, they won't adjust unless you force it a bit.  We travelled with
    both our boys when they were babies.  One screamed for 8 hours straight
    on the plan and was up for a total of 18 hours.  He had no jet lag :-)
    The other had terrible jet lag- we were in a hotel and he was up at
    2:00 every morning for a while.
    
    It takes one day to adjust for each hour of time zone change.  You can
    start it off earlier by going in half hour adjustments starting a week
    before you leave if your situation allows it.  But for everybody, I
    think it is a good thing to try to adjust.
    
    You might also ask your doctor for some mild sedatives that will help
    them fall asleep earlier if needed.
    
    If it's any consolation, I always found the adjustment easier on the
    kids going the US to Europe route than the other way.  For me it's
    exactly the opposite.
    
    Cheryl

    Hey Simon ....
    
    The first few nights are Hell!  It settles down slowly.  They do keep
    the time they are used to for a few days, and then begin to adjust
    fairly quickly. 
    
    It takes adults about a day per hour to adjust ... young kids (4+)
    adjust in about half that time ... but prior to that it takes about
    3 days for them to begin to adjust, and then about 2/3 day per hour.
    
    So, it does pass ... and just when you've settled down over the other
    side of the puddle and come back again, you start all over again!
    
    Stuart

I've read somewhere that being outdoors helps the body adjust to new time
zones.  Something along the lines of the hours of sunlight helping reset 
your clock.

    That;s it !  I knew there was more than one good reason to want to
    my kids on the roof rack! :-)
    
    Now when we fly, I'll make 'em walk the wing !!! :-)
    
    
    Stuart (with a huge sarcastic grin on his face!)

    Actually this isn't bizarre.  I routinely do it myself on long flights. 
    The key is to focus your eyes on the setting or rising sun.  If you
    can't see it from your seat, walk to the window on the door, where you
    can stand.  Should be easy to have kids do it - it's quite a dramatic
    site.  As long as they aren't sleeping, that is.  ;-)
    
    This may not have any scientific validity, but it works for me, so what
    the heck.  Costs nothing, no side effects.
    
    Laura

We've got two trips coming up in the next two weeks:

Trip #1 is out and back to mid-Mississippi (from Atlanta, GA).  A friend and I
bought a bunch of cars (BMW Isettas, about 8'x4.5', not that big) so we've been
transporting them back to Atlanta.  So far we've made 3 trips with just the
'men' going.  The first two trips were mainly fact finding missions while the
last one was serious car haulage - 2 24' rental trucks with a car trailer behind
each one.  We will be making the final trip this weekend with the same setup. 
This time Anthony wants to come along so we agreed.  It's an 8 hour trip and
we'll be leaving Friday around 1-2pm, then staying in a hotel Friday night. 
We'll load the cars Saturday and leave there around 2-3pm.

Anthony's pretty psyched about going.  These are the big moving trucks and we'll
get at least one of the 4 door Isuzu ones like we did last time.  I think it'll
go pretty well.  The trucks have a/c but none of our cars do so that will be
nice.  We'll get to eat in truck stops and all that too!  Should be a memorable
trip for a 4.5 year old.

Trip #2 will be over Labor Day weekend.  We're going to leave Thursday night
around 10pm and head up to Charlottesville, VA.  It's about a 10 hour drive so
we should be arriving around 8am.  Hopefully the kids (Samantha is 2.5 years)
will sleep most of the way and my wife and I can share the driving so we will
both be able to function on Friday.  We'll be returning on Monday during the day
so it'll be a little longer with more stops.

I've done *lots* of long distance driving (12-18 hours straight) and Diane has
done a few, but the longest we've taken either of the kids is 6 hours.

Dave

I was prepared for the worse, but it turned out very well.  Anthony and I spent
Friday morning together getting packed for the trip and then had lunch with
'mom' after picking up the truck.  We left the house around 3pm and headed to
meet up with the other truck.  It was only 45 minutes away, but Anthony dozed
off.  He didn't wake up until another hour later when we stopped off to fill up
the other truck with diesel.

Anthony brought his pillow from his bed which made napping much easier.  The
only thing we had to pickup along the trip were some straws because the truck
bounced around too much for him to easily drink from a cup, bottle or can.

Hw never complained about the length of the trip (400 miles each way - 8-9
hours).  We made it to the hotel in MS at midnight and then got up at 7am
Saturday.

We loaded the cars and were back on the road by noon Saturday and arrived back
at our house at 10:30pm.  He woke up early from one nap on the way back (we had
to stop for fuel) and cried a bit, but after 15 minutes he was civil again.

There were no trip related problems at all from him which really surprised me. 
He never even uttered those famous words - "Are we there yet?"  :-)

Dave

    Dave's entry in this note reminds me that we too are 
    about to start off on a wonderful adventure with our Charlotte:
    a plane trip to southern california!
    We are visiting family there, and plan to take it easy. However,
    we have quite the schedule the day we fly:
    
    17:00edt board plane in Ottawa to Toronto
    18:30edt board plane in Toronto to LA (we have bulkhead seats and 
         will be sitting with my brother. We will get diner then,
         hopefully Charlotte will be able to sleep on the floor
    00:00edt (21:00pdt) arrival at LAX.
    01:00edt (22:00pdt) cleared customs and installed carseat (which we
         have checked with luggage) into cousin's van. Take off to
         Mission Bay for weekend camping (near San Diego) - with weekend
         holiday traffic
    03:00edt (00:00pdt) hopefully, arrival at campground, finding
         everything in the dark, putting baby to bed, etc.
    04:00edt (01:00pdt) sleep.
    07:00edt (04:00pdt) Charlotte's internal clock wakes her up. So much
         for our sleep!
    
    The rest of the two weeks will HOPEFULLY be a bit more vacation-like.
    
    We're frantically making lists now, of things we need not only on
    the flight, but until Tuesday when we arrive back at Ed (my cousin)'s 
    house in Calabasos. I'm not really worried about the trip's effects
    on Charlotte or how she'll react, since up until now she's proving to
    be a very well adjusted and flexibly young girl. Flying and The Beach
    will be new experiences for her, but I am so preoccupied with 
    making lists, arrangements, etc, that I don't have any anxieties about
    her (save her waking us up!).
    
    Crossing my fingers,
    
    Monica 
    

    
    that compares right up there with my vacation!, -
    
    Lemme see, September 23rd Alice to New York via St Louis to see her
    mum with one kid. I somehow find daycare until September 27th when I go
    to New York with the other kid.
    
    September 28th Alice and I with both kids go New York to London and
    hopper flight to Manchester. Customs etc etc.
    
    Then Alice and I fly October 13th Manchester to New York to Denver
    where we get a ride down to the Springs, with both kids. Next day,
    back to work!
    
    This whole scheduled is based around my going to a 4x10 shift Thursday
    thru Sunday (the customer support center is 24x7x265 and weekends are
    customer upgrade times) and my having near-zippo vacation! And not
    being able to afford a second seat for Alice to take two kids to New
    York!
    
    Simon

    I just got back from a short plane trip with my 12 month old.  For
    those of you who don't need to take a stroller to your destination, but
    just want to use something in the airport this is what I did...I used a
    2 wheel luggage carrier (one of those cheap, portable ones) and
    strapped the carseat to it and wheeled it through the airport.  Worked
    like a dream and my daughter seemed to enjoy the novelty of it also. 
    Several people asked my where had I found a carseat with wheels!  I
    wonder if I can patent the idea?8-)!
    
    

re: .105

The trip to Charlottesville, VA is over too.  We left Thursday night at 10:00
p.m. with the two kids in the back seat.  We brough their big pillows, blankets,
straws and some toys, books and snacks.

They fell asleep within the first hour and pretty much stayed asleep until
around 2:00 a.m.  For this trip we took our '85 Jetta with 116k miles on it and
no a/c.  Travelling at night was to allow them to sleep and to (hopefully) get
some cooler weather.  We made two fuel stops during the trip and they both got
up and wandered around with us for a few minutes each time.  On one of the stops
a few police were hanging around the gas station (I guess there weren't any
doughnut shops handy :-)) and Anthony got a Sheriffs badge sticker from one of
them.

We arrived in Charlottesville around 6:45 a.m. and stopped for breakfast before
driving over to my sister's house around 7:30.

We all took a nap Friday afternoon but the rest of the weekend went fine without
any change in our normal schedule.

For the return trip we had planned to drive all day Moday (Labor Day), but
decided to leave Sunday night and get back to Georgia Monday morning.  We left
ay 4:45 p.m. Sunday and the kids kept themselves entertained fairly well. 
Anthony did take a nap once we got on the road, but Samantha was content to play
with her Happy Meal Barbie dolls.

We stopped for dinner around 8:30 p.m. and made a fuel stop too.  Each trip was
530 miles so we could make it on one fuel stop if we went at least 250 miles on
the first tank.  We had to make an 'emergency' stop at another gas station when
Anthony claimed he had to go to the bathroom again, but it was a false claim.

We made it back to our house at 2:30 a.m. Monday so we all got some sleep in our
own beds that night.  Of course the kids got up at 8:00 a.m. so we were a little
groggy, but happy to be home.

Diane did a great job driving, she drove 6 of the 9 hours on the way up and then
all the way home!  I'm kind of used to doing most of the long distance driving,
but she's getting used to it too!

We were going to fly up to New England for Christmas, but now it looks like
we're going to take the train.  It's about a 22 hour trip, but if they can stand
9-10 hours in a car seat, they should be able to take a day on a train where
they can get up and walk around.  It's also fairly cheap by train - for coach
seats, it'll be about $530 for all four of us, round trip.

Dave

    We are traveling to Phoenix for Christmas with a 4 year old and an 17
    month old.  We are not worried about the 4 year old, and but are
    worried how wer are going to keep the little one amused for 8 hours.
    
    Any suggestions for games, activities for that age group.
    
    Thanks
    
    Mark
    

    Mark,
    How are you travelling? Car? Bus? Plane?
    
    Some of the other parents' suggestions here helped us out a lot.
    The idea of a new toy to be brought out as a last resort worked well
    for us (and then we packed it away until the return trip. 
    
    Give the little one a chance to run around a bit (all that energy
    stored up!) 
    
    Taking Charlotte to California (6 hour plane trip) was not as bad
    as it could have been (she was 16 mo) we only had a little trouble
    getting her to sleep on the way there.
    
    If you can swing it, evenings is a good time, since the kids will
    sleep. By car is easier than other methods, since they know the 
    car. Charlotte was far too interested in the rest of the plane to
    bed down until she was UTTERLY physically exhausted. (she could
    literally not stand up).
    
    Good luck!
    Monica

This is going to sound funny but when I travelled alone with Lauren I
found it was best to sit towards the back of the plane (a bit noisy though).
A couple of times we sat right in front of the restroom area.  She loved to 
watch all the people coming and going, as if they were there to visit her.
Other added benefits are: if she needed to stretch there is an area to 
stand without disrupting to many other folks and if she does get noisy -
it's already pretty noisy back there.

You will probably be the last one off the plane, but if you can take the 
noise it works for us.

Also, we found that once Lauren was mobile the front seats (bulk head seats)
 were not as good
since you can't lift the armrest up and the tray comes out of the armrest 
(hope that makes sense).  Lauren liked to sit with us, so lifting the 
armrest up gave her a "seat" if extras were not available on the plane.

Good Luck - I do believe it is mostly a matter of luck.

    I have traveled by car several times in the last three to four years
    with three to four children ages 3 mnts to 14 years with them all at 
    different stages.
    
    I had a small duffle of toys I found at goodwill and cleaned up. One or
    two self winding music 'radios' that I could tolorate hearing over and
    over again. Some of the toys for the youngest took up more space that
    the ones I brought for my older children. Tapes of lulabyes are good as 
    they can keep kids mellow if not asleep. Story tapes like Star Trek or 
    something the adults like to listen to can also keep the kids mellow.
    Something about a voice reading for long periods of time keeps my kids 
    relaxed and noncombative.
    
    We stopped at every rest stop whether we needed it or not and let the
    kids run/crawl/strech for 5, 10 or 15 minutes. At some point in every
    trip we have come to a point where the kids are geting on our nearves
    and we are bothering them. A freind of mine recongonised this becoming
    a problem for her (she has four kids too) they found a place to stop
    for two to three hours. A museum, indoor kid playground, restaurant
    with play equipment(Mc D's Supper Club) Zoo can break up the buggy 
    behavior of everyone( including me). We try to have a few ideas for 
    extended time stopps just in case we need them. Just Letting your child 
    crawl/climb or walk for ten minutes can really improve thier
    dispositions for the short term. For me its better to have fun while 
    your getting there than to do it in the sortest time possible.
    
    Did I mention a friend with four kids. Well once she drove them to 
    Iowa alone. She used a vidio camera and small tv to play tapes. This 
    works best on her ages (4 to 7) and with 'never seen befor'tapes.
    
    Because having seatbelts on in the car is so important and is strickly 
    enforced we dont let the kids climb around the car while its moving
    but in one or two bad weather moments having the freedom to climb all
    over the inside of the car  can break up the bordom and be just as
    effective as getting out for the stop. (We never let any 
    of them get in the drivers seat for any reason but the rest of the car
    is open game.) 
    
    Eating is always a great ditraction for little kids. Small portions of
    sliced carrots, apples, cut up granola bars, raisans, crackers can be
    eaten then cleaned up easily later with a vacuum. I dont searve
    mushy/sticky stuff with kids under three in the car. I save mushy for 
    complete stops at picnic sites.
    
    Hope this helps some with ideas.
    jan

    I for got Flash lites in the winter when the sun goes down before
    bedtime. This can keep the kids up till thier regulare bedtime and when 
    you finally stop for the night they are just as tired as you are.
    
    My rule for flashlites is they must point down to the seat/floor or
    laps of the users. I would use a very week one for the baby who
    will want to have one too but will not be as dicriminating as the four
    year old. The lites must never be pointed out the window for any
    reason. I would not want to accidentally blind a driver of another car
    but the kids dont think about this so I remind them. Older children 
    get one warning only and the light is taken away for the remainder of
    the night
    
    jan

    
    if flying, try and pick a near empty plane, that empty room really
    makes a difference. Sardine flights on Friday night, Monday morning and
    Sunday night are absolutely the worst!
    
    Simon

    
    Bring some "surprise toys", and surprise snacks.  We found that "travel
    magna Doodle" was great  for both ours - they're about the sames ages..
    amd fruit snacks are a real treat.
    
    Also, very important tip
    
    
    *YOU* must get a good night's sleep the night before!
    
    Have fun!
    Jamd

I'll be taking my almost 2 year old son on his
first plane ride in April and I'm tring to figure
out the safest way for him to travel.  I plan
to purchase a seat for him.  I am debating whether
to put him in a car seat, booster seat or just 
in the airplane seat.

He currently uses a car seat in the car.  At his
last doctors visit the doctor said he was big enough
for a booster seat, but since he wasn't complaining
about the car seat leave him it in because that was 
safest.

I don't really understand what safety features a booster
seat provides.  It puts the child up higher, but how does
that help ?

I'll lug a car seat through the airport if thats best,
but I'm starting to wonder if I am being a little 
paranoid.  Perhaps the airplane seat alone would be 
just fine ?


I should mention that my son is big for his age (and off
the height charts).

Anyone have any experiences to share ?

Thanks,
	Denise

    Denise
    
    I read and also saw a special on Airplane safety etc, and they
    mentioned that the children that were in "car seats" were the safest.
    They said that kids that sat on peoples laps were "flying objects" if
    something happned, and if they were not in car seats the tendency for
    them to fall out of the seat was greater.
    
    Now, not that I/you anticipate anything happening, but from the things
    they showed, it was better to have children in car seats.
    
    Anne Marie
    

A couple of years ago we took our 1 1/2 year old to Washington D.C.  We used
a car seat because she felt more comfortable.  I remember one time I got 
distracted and forgot to buckle her up in the car....she cried and tried her
best to communicate to me that something wasn't right....I finally figured it
out, and she settle down immediately after buckling her up.  I feel the car
seat made the trip that much easier for us.

Michael

    
    If you are flying domestic, it might be a good idea to bring a car seat
    or booster with you and for safety's sake you should probably strap
    your child in it.  Many (all?) states have child seat laws so bringing
    the car seat with you will alleviate any problems you might have in
    trying to rent or borrow one one on the other end of your flight.
    Personally, my kids don't enjoy sitting on them during the flight
    although we bring them with us anyway.
    
    For international flights, I don't really suggest it.  My kids have
    flown without car seats on 14 hour flights.  They get tired sitting
    that long in a car seat.  Even though we always buy the cheapest seats
    possible, there is always lots of room for the kids in the seat.  When
    they get tired, they can almost lay down on the seats and sleep
    somewhat comfortably.  I don't think that many foreign countries have
    car seat laws so you will just be miserable lugging it around with you
    once you reach your destination.
    
    Phil

I agree with the previous notes that my son should
be buckled in.  Theres no question about that.  I'm
just trying to find the right combination of safety
and comfort vs my lugging things through the airport.

Having the car seat at our destination is not an issue
since my husband is driving (we are going to Florida).
So I can send the car seat with him if we decide not
to use it on the plane.  I've got to get my son, his
car seat if necessary and the bag of things to keep him
busy through the airport and on to the plane with out
getting too stressed.

Nobody has mentioned booster seats.  Are they better than
just sitting in the airplane seat ?

Denise
 

    I used a car seat for my baby in the airplane when she was 3 months
    and 8 months old. Be sure that it is marked on the car seat that
    it is approved for airplanes, otherwise they will not let you use it
    (they checked mine for the approval stamp each time). It would be 
    a shame to lug it around and then have to put it in baggage.
    Carol

    re: booster seats
    
    There are two kinds that you can buy these days.  One would have a
    purpose on a plane and one wouldn't.
    
    Most of the time, when I hear someone say "booster seat" for the car
    they mean a seat with some kind of large bar or part that comes over
    from the side or front to provide a large barrier in front of the
    child.  The car seatbelt either goes around the whole thing, or keeps
    the seat belted to the car and the seat has it's own closing mechanism. 
    This is usually used for kids too big for the baby-style car seat but
    not big enough for a lap-shoulder belt yet.  If this is the kind of
    carseat you use in the car, you could use it on the plane.
    
    There is another kind of booster, the only maker I've seen is Kangaroo,
    which raises the child up so that a lap-shoulder belt is in the right
    position (over the chest, not the neck)  This wouldn't have any purpose
    in a plane.  This seat has a huge back and some sides for sleeping
    against.
    
    They don't make the old-fashioned booster seats any more, that just
    lift kids up.  I've seen recommendations against using them - they can
    slip out from under in an accident.  These wouldn't help on a plane
    either, as far as safety goes (I doubt you could bring one on the
    plane).

   regarding lugging a car seat through an airport...
   
   I've done it.  Its a little tricky, but its possible.  I'd strongly
   recommend that you consider investing in one of those two-wheeled
   luggage carriers that you see all over the place in airports.  In my
   opinion, the first time you use it, you will wonder how you ever went
   without it.  I was able to stack 2 suitcases, a car seat, a carry-on
   bag, a diaper bag and a couple of jackets on one of these carts - it
   was very useful.  I still had to unstrap everything to go through the
   security checkpoint, but that was a minor issue compared to what I
   would have gone through trying to drag all that stuff with me without
   the carrier.
   
   btw - look around before you spend money on one of these carriers -
   some of them are made very cheaply, and others are made very well - be
   sure to get one that will stand up to the load you intend to carry.
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom

Denise,

    Check with your airline.  I have some vague recollection that booster 
seats may not be FAA approved for use in a plane.  But I could be mistaken.

    Personally, I think that all options you are considering (car seat,
booster seat, standard airplane seat with seat belt) are safe options.
I would tend to select between these based on which would be most 
comfortable for your child.

    Up until my daughter was 1.5, she found the car-seat most confortable
because she could lean against the sides to fall asleep.  By the time she
was 2, however, she found the car-seat to cramped and confining.  After 
that she preferred the plane seat with a simple lap belt. This gave us
the option another noter mentioned of letting the kid unbuckle and stretch
accross a couple seats temporarily while mid-flight.

- Carol

    An important factor is whether and how many times you must change
    planes for your trip.  If you have no changes, the seat is less of a
    problem.  
    
    Having flown several times with my child without another adult to help,
    I decided not to bring the carseat anymore, but to arrange for one to
    be in the car that meets us.  I would do this even if we didn't have to
    change planes.  I just hated all that lugging, espcially since I'm only
    5'1".
    
    I also check through everything except a shoulder bag of flight
    necessities.  Most important are a variety of snack packs, especially
    cookies.  I'm so relieved that we don't need diapers anymore.
    
    L

We're about to do this next month and have opted
to put Elise in her car seat in the airplane.
At 3, we think she's old enough to be belted into
the airplane seat itself.  But the carseat will lift
her up so she can see out of the window, and we
still need the carseat when we get there.

About traveling thru airports with carseats, diaper
bags, luggage, kids, etc - I always get a sky cap to
help me.  For US $5, someone will lug everything for
you, and sometimes they'll let a kid ride on the cart.
You can tell the flight attendant you will need a ride
in the terminal and it'll be there when you deplane
(almost all terminals have internal transportation for 
the elderly and handicapped - they let small children 
on too).  If they don't, very often a skycap will meet
you with a luggage cart to hold the carseats.

The equivalent of taking along bearers....


Pat

    
    I wish I had looked more closely .... but I remember being in Logan
    sometime last year, and seeing someone with what looked like a
    two-wheeled luggage carrier, with a car seat strapped to it, and their
    kid in the seat.  What a *GREAT* idea!!  It stopped the kid from
    running off (she was buckled into the seat), eliminated the hassle of
    lugging the seat around, and still left the parent with a free hand to
    deal with luggage.  And Mom/Dad could stop for a minute to check for
    tickets or whatever, without having to worry about the child running
    off or being snatched.  Perhaps an airline/airport could give you more
    info on it, or a travel agent.  Call around! Obviously the tricky part
    would be finding a luggage cart that you could secure the seat to. 
    Might have even been a regular "two-wheeler" dolly.  If I have to
    travel with the baby, this would be the route I'd try for.  
    
    I don't have any idea about the safety of booster seats in airplanes. 
    You could try calling Graco or whoever manufactures the booster(s)
    you're interested in, and see what they say.
    
    And yes, pay the few dollars to have someone else sweat out the luggage
    chaos for you - you'll be happy you did!!
    
     
    
    

    The last few times we traveled on an airplane with Andy (2+) we 
    brought a booster seat, instead of the full-sized car seat (we 
    already had so many carry-on goodies that we were trying to take 
    the smallest possible option).  Our booster is the kind that has 
    the large bar across the front.  It is similar to the infant seats, 
    but doesn't have the higher back and sides.
    
    Two things to consider with a booster:  First is that we had a really 
    hard time fitting the width of the whole booster in the airplane seat.  
    We usually had to take off the top bar (disconnected on both sides). 
    The result was that the seat portion allowed him to sit a little higher, 
    but didn't really provide the extra lap protection.  This actually turned 
    out to be okay, since he was able to use the pull-down tray.
    
    Second... our booster seat is FAA approved (has a sticker on the side).  
    Still, one of the airlines told us that they didn't allow booster seats
    at all.  I believe they would have allowed an infant car seat, but not
    the shorter booster seat.  That was the only (of many flights) where 
    this happened.
    
    One more option I've always been curious about...  In some of the
    (many) children's catalogs that I get, I've seen a car seat that is 
    specifically made for flying.  It actually looks more like a life-
    jacket.  I don't know how it connects to the seat belt, but the result 
    is a full seat-belt/shoulder strap that is child-sized.  I've been 
    tempted to order one of these, just to see how it works, and return 
    it if it doesn't seem sturdy enough.   Has anyone else seen one?

    re: .130
    
    I did this on my trip last summer.  The way my carseat was designed
    allowed me to slip the carrier between the seat and the metal bar in
    the back.  I secured it with bungi cords.  The carseat rested on the
    "platform" very close to the ground (low center of gravity).  I got 
    several comments as I raced through the Atlanta airport with my 
    daughter strapped in.  I didn't even have to walk that slowly.  My 
    daughter loved it.  FYI, the carrier was bottom of the line (borrowed 
    from my mother) and carseat/daughter total weight was about 40lbs.  
    
    Also, if you need the carseat at your destination and don't want to
    carry it on (i.e., don't buy another seat) you can gate check the seat
    and it will be waiting for you to deplane.  I used this arrangement
    instead of carrying a stroller.
    
    LG

    We went from Boston to Paris when our daughter was 21 months.  She
    could have gone free or close to free on our laps, but we decided to
    buy her a full-fare ticket.  That trip we also decided to use her car
    seat in the plane.
    
    We liked it for a few reasons:
    - she was more comfortable sleeping in it than on a normal seat
      (although yet more comfortable is stretching across several seats; not
      an option that time, because the plane was full)
    - we needed a car seat in France (as someone said, they have strict
      laws in most European countries requiring a car seat)
    
    Disadvantages were:
    - it is hard to carry through the airport
    - you can't put the tray down to eat or color with the car seat on the
      seat (at least for her seat).  In the bulkhead seats, there was
      enough room to put the seat on the floor, but in the other seats
      there is not.
    - with her car seat, her feet end up right by the back of the seat in
      front of her (unless in the bulkhead seat), which means that the
      person in front of her gets annoyed about being poked by the moving
      or kicking of little feet in their back.
    
    Now, at age 3, we don't use the car seat on airplanes any more,
    although she uses it in the car.  The problem is that she needs to be
    able to use the tray.  Even if we bring the car seat, we check it with
    the luggage.  We have done some long trips with her, including to
    Australia last summer and to India this winter.
    
    The adult seat belt clearly is not as secure as a car seat for her.  It
    doesn't really pull that tight, and it probably has potential to harm
    her if there really were a need for seatbelts (much like it would
    probably harm her in a car).
    
    However, the car seat has enough disadvantages in the plane that we
    don't do it any more.
    
    For our India trips, it also doesn't make a lot of sense to take a car
    seat along, since none of the cars we've been in there have any
    seatbelts.
    
    If using a car seat, I suggest getting a bulkhead seat in order to have
    enough room to take the seat out for meals so you can use the tray.
    
    Beryl

I meant to put this in before.  We traveled in December with our then 
5.5 month old.  As there were holiday fares, buying her own seat to 
user her infant seat was out of the question.    However we were not 
comfortable with just holding her since she would not be belted in any 
way.  

What I did was wear a snugli.   I put on the snugli, put her in it,and 
then sat down and belted myself in as normal (belt around me, not 
around her/snugli).    

This way she was totally belted in, facing the same direction as her 
carseat would (back) and there was support behind her head from the 
snugli.    

It was two flights down and one flight back, probably 8 hours flying 
total.   The majority of each she was asleep in the snugli.   In the 
middle of two flights she was awake and we put her on a blanket on the 
floor (bulkhead seats) with toys one time to stretch, and on an empty
middle seat the other time. 

She was comfortable, we felt better because she was safely restrained. 
I'm not saying this was FAA approved or anything, but it worked for us. 

Another idea, which worked for my 17 month old at take off and landing, and
I think was safer than the loops which attach to a lap belt, was using a
harness.  I put the harness on him, and looped the reins between his legs
and up to the back of the harness and back again, and put my lap belt
through the back of the harness.

I though this would spread the load across his body better.

Carol

    I've used a booster seat for my daughter.  One of the booster seats
    that we have is two pieces so I just use the bottom piece so that she
    can sit up higher.  This works out well because she can reach the seat
    tray easily which allows her to color, etc. during the flight.  To make
    it easy to carry on and off the plane, I use a bungi cord to connect
    the two pieces and then carry it by the cord.
    
    Another suggestion that has nothing to do with car seats is that if the
    airline offers children's meals it is a good idea to order it ahead of
    time.  I did not do this with my daughter once and had a real hard time
    getting something she'd like to eat besides the snacks I had brought
    with me.

This past autumn we travelled to Phoenix, San Francisco, etc. with our 3.5
year old.  We have the Kangaroo boosters and took them with.  One airline
let us use the Kangaroo booster and the other didn't.  In the case of the
one that didn't we gate checked the seat.  Kangaroo claimed that they were
obtaining approval at the time we bought the seat but ours doesn't have the
sticker so...  The Kangaroo is light enough that you can carry it around
the airport without any great difficulty.

Because we were doing alot of driving (we drove from SF out to Yosemite)
in a rental car, we would not have been without the seat.

Dick
 

    I would recommend using more than just the airplane seat belts.  I just
    travelled with my 23 month daughter without a car seat.  Most of the
    ride was bumpy with seat belts being required (per captains orders!). 
    My daughter could easily undo the seatbelt and was cranky and unwilling
    to listen to my orders re: keeping the seatbelts ON!
    
    I had only bought one seat so I didn't want to bring the carseat
    without being sure I could use it.  I think she probably would have
    slept better in her carseat too.
    
    Good luck/M

I've read all these replies, but I'm still not sure on this one.
I plan to be flying with my son who will be 3 years 2 months old,
this summer.  He is slim, currently weighs about 32lbs dressed and
above average for height.

I prefer not to lug around his car seat, as I will be travelling alone,
and will have to change planes.  I realize that using his car seat
would be the safest, but can I expect any degree of safety at all from the
built in seat belts on the plane?

Will the belt pull tight enough around him to hold him?  Some of you have
mentioned an extra lap belt attachment.  What is this, and how do I get
one?

Thanks,
Ginny

    A Lap belt is a small baby size belt you attach to your own belt to
    hold a baby on your lap in the plane - you get it from the
    steward(ess). Not for a three year old. The normal belt should fit though.
    Michel

    What suggestions do you have for ears when the plane descends?  We'll
    be heading off to Florida next month.  My older two can chew gum but
    Kyle won't be able to (he just swallows gum).  I remmember flying a few
    years ago, Lauren was 5 and the descent really got to her.  I know it's
    quick but would like to avoid an unnecessary pain.
    
    Thanks,
    Julie

    Give Kyle something to drink....easiest if they are still on the
    bottle/breast, a little tougher but works the same.  I don;t think
    those juice boxes would be as useful as say a bottle of OJ or 
    cran-juice.  Also if nothing works and there is some pain/annoyance
    just reassue the child the feeling will go away.  Even though I cringe
    when I'm on a plane with a cryimg child, sometimes a few minutes of
    that will clear up any compression problems - so if the little guy
    cries let him for a few minutes then soothe him.
    
    Good Luck,
    Jt

    Take two cups, fill them 1/4 of the way with hot papertowels and
    have him put them over his ears.
    
    The steam/warmth is supposed to help keep the ears clear.  There
    is also a medicine (someone said the name in her somewhere) that
    will help keep the ears from hurting too badly.
    

    I brought licorice for David to munch on.  It produces enough saliva
    that he had to swallow, thus "popping" his ears.  I also handed it out
    to some other grateful Moms, who had some pretty uncomfortable kids
    until they started to eat the licorice.  Any food will do,
    actually, but David really likes licorice, so I could get him to eat it
    easily enough.  I also had a juice box handy, but he drank it too fast
    and we still had some descending to do!   Lollypops are also helpful.
    Sarah

    Re: .143 - The cups with warm damp paper towels work very well.
    I had a terrible cold and a doctor recommended this - I didn't feel any
    pressure at all.  I would strongly recommend trying it with children.
    (The kids can make believe they have Mickey Mouse ears!    ;^)  

    I flew to Florida with my daughter (2 years) last month.  My
    pediatrician recommended giving her Benedryl before the flight.
    I did and my daughter didn't seem to mind taking off or landing.
    
    You might want to give Kyle a dose a week or so before the flight to
    see what his reaction to it is.  My daughter got a mild case of
    diarhea.  I called the pharmicist to check if he thought it was due to
    the medicine.  He said it probably was, but his opinion was that it was
    worth that minor discomfort to alleviate any ear problems in flight. 
    He agreed with my pediatrician that Benedryl was a plus.
    
    Good luck.

re: .146

However, my usual caution with Benandryl (and other antihistimines and/or 
decongestants) -- be sure you know how Benadryl affects your child BEFORE you 
go on the trip.  Benadryl makes some kids hyper, the last thing you want on a 
plane.  In addition to preventing swelling of the ear passages, Benadryl has 
the added advantage (for most kids but NOT all) of being a mild depressant 
i.e. it makes them drowsy and more likely to sleep on the plane.

Clay

    The first time I slipped Alex a Benadryl "mickey" she crumped out
    before the food arrived.  On the return flight, I gave it to her just
    before she ate, so the food was a diversion, the full tummy helped put
    her lights out, and she didn't wake up cranky *and* starving.
    
    Leslie

    re .147
    
    yes as I mentioned in my note -- definitely give it a try ahead of
    time.  Good luck

    Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm going to give the Benedryl a try.
    
    Thanks again,
    Julie
    

    I just got the "One Step Ahead" catalog in the mail, and noticed that
    there are two types of car seats in there, made specifically for
    travel.  One looks very similar to a life-jacket.  The way it is
    described, it sounds as if there is a firm (cushioned) plate in back, 
    which connects to a lap belt and shoulder strap.  The entire unit 
    connects to the normal adult seat belt.  The unit is advertised as 
    complying with both auto, and airline regulations. The cost was about $40.
    
    The second was newer.  It looked VERY MUCH like a normal toddler (not
    booster seat, but full-sized) car seat.  It was INFLATABLE.  They claim
    to use the "same technology used in auto air bags".  It comes with both 
    a carrying case, and an inflater (I think it uses the car lighter as a 
    source of power.  This one was a little more expensive (I seem to recall 
    it was around $90).
    
    I'd be interested to hear from anyone who might have tried either 
    of these.
    
    Peggy

    We got the first type for one of our trips to New Zealand, when David
    was 3.  It worked pretty well, though the clip fastener things were very
    stiff, and sometimes hard to undo.  The back of it has a steel plate
    in it, so it's *very* firm.  It is light weight, though, and very easy to
    tuck into the outside pocket of a carry-on bag.  You're at ZK, right?
    I could bring it in for you to see if you're interested.

					cheryl

re .151

Does anyone know if these are available anywhere in the UK?

Carol.

    
    I hope this is the right place ....
    
    We're thinking of driving to Washington DC the end of the summer, and
    was hoping to find the best/shortest route, and about how long it takes
    from Nashua NH.  
    
    Also, if you've driven with little ones (10 mos), do you find it's a
    lot easier to drive at night?  Right now the plan is to leave at about
    4:00 pm, drive till late dinner (6:00-7:00pm), get Jonathan supper and
    play for a little while, then drive a while longer (till about
    11:00-12:00) while he sleeps.  Depending on how long the whole trip is,
    either we're "there", or finish off the drive in the morning.  I'd
    never have DARED this with my older two, but it will just be Jonathan
    and his dad and I.
    
    Thanks!
    Patty

    Sounds like a good plan to me.
    
    As far as the shortest and fastest way to get there: I would
    contact AAA.  They can provide you with a map with the route
    all planned out.  The best thing about their plans are that
    they compensate for any road constructin along the way....
    info we aren't privey to when we plan out own vacations.
    
    Pam

   fwiw,
   
   We've done the New England to DC road trip with a little one in the
   car... we started late at night and got there around breakfast time, I
   think... it worked well - she slept for the whole trip.. the only
   gotcha was that we were tired from the drive and she was well slept
   and wanted to play... all in all, it worked fairly well for us...
   
   - Tom

Have you totally ruled out flying instead?  Two friends and I were planning to
drive to DC in mid-July for another friend's wedding.  I called to check air
fares just in case and found we could fly roundtrip from Providence for $135.
Sold!  That beats 20 hours round trip in the car for me!

						Tracy

	We did this trip from Billerica, MA last october with a 6month old
	and a 2.5 yr old.  There were 4 adults (my husband and I and my
	brother-in-law and sister-in-law.  The 6month old is our daughter
	and the 2.5 yr old is their son.

	We decided to leave at 5:00am.  We woke the kids up and put them
	in the car seat hoping they would fall right back to sleep, well
	I think we were all excited about the trip so we all stayed awake
	the first 2 hours and stopped for breakfast in Conn. at 7:00am.
	We had a leasurely breakfast and the 2.5 yr old got to run around
	a little.  Basically the whole day everyone was great.  Our 6month
	old slept most of time and the rest of the time we had plenty of
	toys - she was an angle.  The 2.5 yr old slept a nice amount of
	time too, and was occupied with toys and sing-a-longs the rest
	of the time.  We stopped for lunch and we got to DC around 5:00 or
	6:00 I think. We ate supper and the kids played for a few hours.
	I remember our daughter went to sleep about 7:30 (regular time) with
	no trouble.  This was good because unlike arriving in the morning,
	we weren't exhausted with 2 wide awake kids on our hands.

	So that's what worked for us, good luck!
	Karen T.

	P.S.  We brought a baby backpack with us for sight seeing and a 
	double stroller for the kids.  It worked out great because our
	daughter really liked the backpack and slept in it well.  Then
	our nephew could stretch out in the double stroller and nap.
	All in all - the kids were WONDERFULLY behaved!

    re .157 .... yes, I've ruled out flying.  It's $205.00/round-trip, plus
    then we'd have to deal with renting a car, so it's more expensive then
    we'd like to spend, plus there's a plane change ....
    
    Even bus fare was $102./person.  (-:
    
    I was concerned about the having a wide-awake kid part, which is why
    we're tentatively planning on only driving till 11:00-12:00 at night.
    Neither of us mind driving, so that's not an issue - more of the
    question is how much Jonathan will hate that much time in the car (-:
    
    I'm surprised that it took 12 hrs .... do you remember the route you
    took?
    
    Concord Trailways has time of 10.5 hours for the whole trip, from
    Nashua to Boston to N.Y. to Washington.  Nashua to Boston and back out
    adds a solid 1.5 hrs to the trip in the "wrong direction" .... maybe I
    should get their route??
    
    Thanks!
    Patty
    

I made it in 7 or 8 hours from Providence to DC.  Add another 1-1/2 hours
from Nashua.  I have no idea what route we took but it was the middle of
the night so we didn't have to worry about traffic.  Major traffic will
be around NY city and I guess the Tapanzee bridge helps cut out some of
that problem.  If you are traveling during rush hour in Conn. you can expect
slowdowns as well.

Karen

    
    My mother lives just outside of DC so I will try to give a summary of
    the route that we have found to be the fastest (about 9 hours from
    Bolton, MA to Arlington, VA)
    
    route 495 (or whatever) to the Mass Pike west
    
    Mass  Pike west to route 84 south (toward Hartford)
    
    route 84 across Connecticut (I think that you may have to get onto
    	route 684 but I'm not sure - we haven't done the trip in a couple
    	of years)
    
    get onto the Saw Mill Parkway which will get you onto route 287
    
    Go across the Tappan Zee Bridge
    
    One or two exits past the Hudson River, get onto the Palisades Parkway
    	going south
    
    Follow the signs for the New Jersey turnpike (as I remember it's a
     	little tricky but there are signs - they just may be on the
    	unexpected side of the road)
    
    note:  taking the Palisades Parkway instead of the Garden State Parkway
    	shaves about 1/2 hour off the trip
    
    From the Palisades Parkway, pick up the New Jersey Turnpike going south
    	actually - this is where the signs get a little tricky
    
    You'll be on the Jersey Turnpike for its whole length and will get
    	to see some truely scenic parts of upper New Jersey
    
    From the Jersey Turnpike, get onto the Delaware Turnpike (keep your
    	wallet handy) and then get onto 95 south which will take you
    	to the Washington area
    
    Then take 95 or route 495 (the one around DC) as appropriate.
    
    When we made the trip, our son was about 20 months.  We left at around
    	midnight and got in sometime mid morning.
    
    Good luck and have a fun trip!
    

    How does the baby react on long car rides?  My kids have always been
    wonderful travellers.  When they were babies we tried every angle for
    the 18 hour drive to grandma's: driving at night, driving straight
    thru, stopping for the night,  driving during the day, etc.  My
    sister's kids hate the car and can't even peaceably make it 4 hours
    without causing great commotion.  If he is well behaved when in his car
    seat for long periods of time as well as easily entertained, go for a
    day trip.  
    
    -sjd
    

    He's never been in the car for more than 2 hours, and he wasn't
    thrilled by the end of that, so I'm not sure how he'd be...  Mostly he
    seems to get hot and/or uncomfortable, or just plain bored.  He doesn't
    "scream", but he's not happy either )-:
    
    THANKS for the directions!!  I'll let you all know what we decide to
    do...
    
    Thanks,
    Patty

Hi,

Tomorrow I'm flying with my two year old over seas home to
grandma and grandpa.

I am looking for (non messy) snack ideas to bring on the plane,
to make the time go faster and as a backup in case the kids-meal 
they will serve is not enough for my hungry 2 -year old.

He loves yougourt, but will not eath one whole container at 
once, besides it needs to be cold and we will spend a total ~8 
hours on the plane.

I had thought about grapes, crackes, juice. Any other ideas?


/Malin

cereal (cheerios & Kix are favored by my soon-to-be-2-year-old)
cookies (fig newtons)

You could pack some of those snack packs of pudding, yogurt, or applesauce --
they're often child-sized....

	Malin,

	My nephew is 3 so I'm not sure these would be good for a 2 yr old,
	but here's a few ideas.  His favorites snacks are pretzels, Ritz bits,
	and those handi-pak crackers with either cheese or peanut butter.
	I guess the peanut butter ones would keep longer.  Although these
	might be a little messy, they keep my nephew busy for awhile, he
	likes to spread the cheese/peanut butter or dip (some come with
	cracker sticks instead of flat crackers).  So I thought this snack
	might serve a dual purpose (keep him busy and feed him)  But I'm
	not sure if a 2yr old would like this or be able to do it.

	Have a great trip!
	Karen T.

    We just went to Arizona with Chelsea, who is also two.  Big difference
    is our flight was only an hour, but sometimes an hour can seem like a
    day to a two year old.
    
    We packed the gold fish crackers, Mary Lou cookies (cuz she feels like
    she is getting a big treat...its a shortbread cookie and quite large!)
    I also packed a small bag of her favorite chips....Nacho Doritos.  We
    let her eat the pretzels from the airline service, cuz having her own
    bag was a big deal!  We also got her apple juice when the cart came
    around, let her have her own cup and would pour a little bit of juice
    at a time in it.  As a treat we brought a few rolls of her favorite
    candy...Smarties and she was thrilled.
    
    I also found that going to the toy store and buying some very
    inexpensive airline friendly toys really helped.  I got her some new
    books, one of those magnetic scratch pads with the little pencil stick,
    a little musical piano box....all of this priced around .99 - 1.99...
    and the fact that they were new really held her interest.
    
    We also paid for her seat this time which was a lot better then her
    being in our lap.  She loved buckling up and having her little tray
    to color on and spread her snacks!
    
    Good Luck!
    
    ...Lori

We used to take akmak (a whole wheat cracker) and peanut
butter, cheerios, and fruit -- we'd take a plastic knife
and bowl so we could cut it up as needed.

Beryl

	We came back from Europe a couple months ago, the childs meal
	was quite extensive - mostly gerber products the large size.
	Spagetti, carrots, banana, milk, milk toast.  We brought some
	little fruit juices which he liked, but the airline meal would
	have been enough.

	How about cut up hot-dog slices ?  Emily always eats her
	hot-dogs room temperature (cooled down after cooking).  
	
	One point about hot dogs and grapes - they are both serious
	choking hazards for children under four.  The current recommendation
	is to quarter the grapes and cut round hot dog slices in half.

	Emily also loves blueberries, though I suppose those could
	get messy if dropped!
	
	Bread and rolls are also good possibilities, if you're looking
	for something with substance!  

	Karen

I agree with new toys to distract.  Of course stickers, crayons, a
new book seem to work.  Our last car trip we picked up some pre-school
flash cards (Lauren was 26 months).  They focused around pictures of
objects, colors and numbers.  Lauren loved them and they entertained
her for quite a long time.

With regard to food - I try to keep nutrition in mind, like apples,
indiviudally wrapped japenese crackers.  But the things that seem to
do the trick are the: gummy worms (or other assorted animals), and 
candies like a few M&M's or the fruit flavored ones.  I take the small
candies and put them in little toy containers, a tiny box and make
it a surprise.

    re: drinks ..
    
    since it's a LONG plane ride, how about getting some of those juice
    boxes and freezing them?  That way you could keep other things cold as
    well, and still have something cold to drink for the child.  
    
    Just a thought.  
    
    holly
    

    The greatest advice I ever got from a previous version of this notes 
    file had to do with traveling.  I took my 18 month old on a 5 hour 
    plane trip and the things I found that helped the most were....
    
    	Buy some new cheap toys in the .99 to 1.99 price range at a 
        drug store or equivelent.  The really cheap junk, and wrap each 
        one individually in wrapping paper and let the child open one 
        an hour or something.  I also did this with hand me down Mc 
        Donald toys that Amanda had never seen.  Held her interest 
        remarkably.  Best thing I ever did.  
    
    	Had lots and lots of different things to drink including juice 
        boxes (which were rather new to her)  Her thirst was incredible
        for the plane trip.  She also got great pleasure from playing 
        with the ice cubes in the "big girl" cups.  
    
        Brought new books (including pop up ones that encouraged 
        participation on her part) to read which I also wrapped.
    
        Snacks included vending machine size things of pretzels, Lorna 
        Dune cookies, Cheetoes, and grapes.  
    
        I found who you sit by a key factor in how the trip goes.  If you
        are sitting in a section where people ooh and ahh and talk to your 
        kid things will go much better then if you are in a section where
        someone hates kids.  Good luck.  
    
        I also found changing her in a tiny bathroom quite difficult.
        Instead I changed her on the floor behind the last row of seats
        by the kitchen.  Several mothers followed suit after seeing me
        do this, the plane attendants said that most all planes have 
        a row of seats removed in this area to store a first aid kit 
        and such.  We also sat there on the floor periodically on the 
        long trip home and played. 
    
        Just a few ideas. 
    
        lori       

Thanks for all the great ideas. "Magnetic scratch pad" - I like
that idea, I'll try to find one tonight or tomorrow morning.

Re grapes, yes, we always cut them in pieces before serving them.

Wrap all the toys? I thought I just had enough time to do laundry,
figure out what to bring and do the packing!?  :-) 


I am counting on him sleeping some too on the plane, since the 
flight leaves in the evening and when we arrive its morning the next day.

I'll keep you posted


/Malin

  This is not a snack idea but something that has worked well for us when
flying to Europe is ordering the children's sleeping bag.  We usually fly
SAS so I'm not sure if all airlines offer them.  My son has made the trip
4 times and has always curled up in the sleeping bag and slept on the floor.
  
  Elizabeth

I just wanted to thank you all for the many snack (and other) ideas
for my 8+ hour flight with Jonathan and report back how we all did.

The trip could not have gone better. On the day of departure, my son
was eager to travel, the first words out of his mouth after his midday 
nap was "Pack the bags". He only slept about 3 hours, but some meals,
play, the favorite blanket and doll and a friendly woman next to us 
made the time pass quickly.

I did find the scratch pad that someone mentioned, and also brought
berries in a small container with lid (so they would not be crushed)
and crackers. Most importantly I brought 2 small bottles of water since
it turned out that the plane HAD NO WATER. No water to mix orange
juice concentrate or make coffee or tea, no water in the sinks in the
bathrooms. Imagine this on a large 747 that is completely filled to the
last seat. The crew apologized and claimed the water gauge was broken,
and had shown full while the water tank was in fact empty... (You
wonder what they would have done if same thing had happened to the 
fuel gauge) On my way back to the US I talked to another member of the
crew who had been on the same plane the day after me. This crewmember 
was told that there had been no water because someone forgot to fill 
the tank while at Logan Airport!

Also, I had ordered a kids meal, a hot dog. I told Johathan about this
ahead of time, and he was looking forward to his meal very much. Problem
was because the plane was overbooked etc. it took lots of time to
get everybody onboard and find volunteers to stay behind etc. The delay
in combination with the lack of water meant that the meal was not served 
until almost 10 PM. I was glad I brought a sandwich or two along as well
to tie us over to the meal.

All in all a good experience. I just hope that that the same will be true
for grandad who on his own will bring Jonathan back on the plane on Friday.

/Malin

    Hi Folks,
    
    We are going on vacation to a remote island in Maine shortly.  Paul is
    almost two years old, well he is 21 months.
    
    Anyways..........
    
    There are no phones, no cars, and no stores.  I have been informed that
    in case of an emergency we are to contact the neighbor who has a boat
    and he will get us to the mainland is 20 minutes and he also has a
    phone in the boat so if the emergency calls for, an ambulance can be
    waiting for us.
    
    I am wondering if we need to know anything, or bring anything other
    than the regular first aid gear.  Just want to be prepared.  The owners
    of the house are older and said they never had an issue with their
    children.
    
    Any advice?  Thanks..
    
    cj 

    I'm looking for reccomendations for cassette tapes to keep my 15 month
    old son and 3 1/2 year old daughter entertained on our 3 1/2+ hour
    trip to Northern Vermont next week.  The Disney Classics Vol 1 and Vol
    2 are the current favorites but my husband and I are getting very tired
    of them.
    
    Carol

    
    Carol,
    
    I highly recommend any Raffi tapes.  Raffi live on Broadway is
    our favorite.  I've even listened to it without the kids in the
    car!
    
    Kirsten
    

Raffi, Rosenshontz, and Hap Palmer all go over well.  I'm partial to classical
music, and we've found "Songs of Pooh" (text by A. A. Milne, music by Harold
Fraser-Simpson; Robert Tear, tenor) to be a good compromise.

    
    Disney books on tape are also good.  Or just children's books on tape.
    I always stock up at the library before a long trip.

    Sharon, Lois and Bram tapes are some of our favorites (in
    addition to Raffi)
    
    	Linda

Lauren, who is 3.5, likes the Thomas the Tank
story tape (has a book that goes with it) and 
a tape called "car songs".  Also a Barney
sing along tape (if you can stand it over and 
over again).

    I found a tape called "Kermit Unpigged" where the muppets sing lots
    of adult songs (She Drives Me Crazy, What a day for a Daydream, Born
    to Be Wild) with famous singers (Vince Gill, DOn Henley, Jimmy Buffet,
    Ozzy Ozbourne etc). Both the kids and I like it (over and over).
    Sue

    We have a Sesame Street tape that is also fun to listen to because it
    has songs that are knock-offs of real ones.  Cereal Girl instead of
    Material Girl, that type of thing.  We don't get as tired of that, as
    we do with Raffi, et al.
    
    Also, Disney for Children with Bruce Springsteen, Little Richard, Elton
    John, and many others is a great tape.  
    
    judy

I like the "Peter, Paul and Mommy too" tape.

Lori

    Aside from all the previous replies ... don't forget The Chipmunks!
    I forget the title, but my kids have a tape that has all 'normal' songs
    on it (though probably songs you learned as a kid - Comin' Round the
    Mountain type...), but with the Chipmunks.  That Alvin is a real hoot!!
    
    

    Joe Scruggs is a favorite of ours! I got our tape from Discovery Toys,
    but I've seen them in some of the stores such as Learning Express, etc.

	We picked up a tape called "Sugarbeats" at the Right Start store
	in the Natick Mall.  The kids love it - it's basically older
	songs sung by kid/adult combos.  Rockin' Robin, These Boots are
	Made for Walkin', Stay, Shout, Groovin', Everyday People, and
	other songs... it's fun, and you don't get terribly sick of it.

	Karen

    Even at age 8.5 AJ (I think) appreciates his tapes more now than
    before!  We picked him up an inexpensive am/FM "walkman" type cassette
    player pretty inexpensively (Walmart for $13-15) I think his is made by
    General Electric, good reception.  Outside of replacing the headphones
    twice in three years and batteries (2 of AA's) it's earned it's keep
    well.  He gets to listen to his own tapes, we don't have to listen to
    them, (but when it's just he and I in the car I let him put them in the
    car cassette player, dad's not at tolerant)  I found a different type
    of earphone at the Christmas Tree shop, it is just the wires and
    earplugs,  There is NO hard headband which seems to be the thing that
    breaks the easiest.  and I bought a nylon cassette keeper (looks like an 
    insulated lunchbox in miniature) with a zipper and nylon strap.  It
    stays in the car.
    
    Now what I can do is let anyone who wants to borrow these, long enough
    to copy them.  I am in MRO and live south west of Worcester in Oxford
    MA.  Husband works near South Station Boston.  We have an extensive
    collection of the Disney Series; Travel songs, silly songs (at least 
    2 versions) many stories on tapes (Bambi etc) soundtracks from LionKing
    and Free Willey (most of these two are pure symphony music type).
    
    I appreciate keeping a child quiet on a long car trip, we did it when
    he was three from here to DC, I had a backache from turning around to
    talk to him for the 8-10 hour ride!
    
    I say get an inexpensive cassette player, and blank tapes and meet me
    somewhere if you want to borrow and copy these tapes.  If not, Walmart
    seems to have the best selection of kids tapes around!  Most come with
    a songbook and words in the wrapper.
    
    Lyn
    (usctr1::tripp)

    In about a week we're driving from Boston to Washington DC
    (HOT!).  I'm wondering about other's experiences with these
    pretty long trips.

    I could:
    	- leave early in the morning while still cool, arrive at supper time.
    	  would have to interact with kids all day.

    	- leave very late at night and drive all night.  kids could sleep
    	  for the whole trip.

    	- leave mid-day, enjoy the trip with the kids until they fall asleep

    What have you done?
    bob

    Well, *I* haven't personally done it, but my 2 older boys just went to
    NJ w/ their dad, and he did the "get up early drive all day thing", and
    it's a wonder he didn't decide to leap off a bridge along the way. (-:
    
    Problem is that the KIDS are wired too!
    
    If I had to do it, I'd leave a few hours before supper time, make 1
    stop be supper, and plan to "get in" well after the kids are passed
    out, but before midnight.  This will let them be more "wound down"
    while you're driving, and still give you enough time to get some sleep
    once you get there.
    
    BUT, make sure there's something for them "to do" in the morning, so
    when they wake at 5am in a strange place, they're not hopping on top of
    you.  A jigsaw puzzle comes to mind.
    
    When I was little, my parents used to leave late at night and drive all
    night, but *BOY* were they grumpy the next day!!  And we'd slept, so it
    was the worst of both worlds.
    
    Evening driving will still be warm, but it will be getting
    progressively cooler, as opposed to warmer, so it may feel more
    refreshing driving.  
    
    Presumably you're usually up later than the kids anyway, right?  So you
    may as well be driving then ....
    
    

    Oh yeah - the other "cut" at this is, by the time the kids are getting
    totally bored with driving, it's pretty close to bedtime anyway.  If DC
    is ~6 hours, leave ~3:30pm, plan dinner for ~1 hr (~5-6:00), an hour
    for 'other' stops, and you should be close to midnight arriving, with
    minimal upset from the kids, and time to rest for you.
    

    
    I've only gone as far as Philly.  Personally, I drive better
    early in the morning.
    
    What I've done is gotten up at 4 am and put a sleeping husband
    and child in the car.  At 7am or when child is awake, we stop
    for breakfast.  There are less cars on the road and if
    children stay sleeping, you cover half the distance without
    interaction.
    
    Leaving at mid-day would never work for us since my child will
    not "fall" asleep in the car.  And I'm too tired to drive all night.

    
    When I was a kid, that's what we did.  We would pack the car up
    the day before and Mom and Dad would go to bed early (about the
    same time as the kids).  They would get up around 4 am and carry
    us into the car.  Off we went.  Mom and the kids would sleep for
    about 3-4 hours.  When we all woke up we would stop for breakfast
    and we were halfway to our destination already.  Then, we would
    have books and tapes and car games (car bingo was a favorite)
    and we would have a pretty good time with very little fighting.
    
    Have fun!

      I made a 27 hour drive from Mass to Florida this past April.  We had
  3 kids (3,4 and 5).  What worked extremely well for us was leaving around
  4 in the afternoon.  We drove quite a bit and then made dinner a "big"
  stop.  The kids all fell asleep by 10 PM.  We then drove on through
  the night and arrived the next day for dinner.

      We of course had 4 drivers along.  I would not suggest driving through
  the night if you only have 1 driver.  In our situation I preferred to
  drive the late shift - 2 AM to sunrise.  The other 3 drivers all managed
  to get some sleep.

      We need to make an 8 hour drive next week.  We plan on doing most of
  it while the kids sleep.

  Elizabeth

    
    Since my husband is from Delaware, we make that trip almost
    every year. We have never done the night trip, since it is too
    stressful for the adults involved - there are too many flat,
    straight stretches that can put us to sleep!
    
    We usually leave early, but not early enough to hit the
    Hartford commuter traffic. We pack a cooler with drinks and
    snacks, so we can munch on the way. Sometimes, we stop in
    Windsor (if I remember correctly, after UConn and before 
    Hartford off 84), Connecticut for a deli bagel and bakery
    stuff, right off the highway behind the big Burger King.
    We usually stop somewhere along NJ Turnpike for a bathroom
    break. Our daughter would bring a pillow, some books, lots
    of bubblegum, puzzles, sega game boy, craft material, stuff
    I would them. We would buy a new book-on-cassette-tape for
    each trip, last time we heard The Pelican Brief, very interesting
    and even my daughter got into it (told us to hush), it lasted 
    6 hours! One time we heard Interview with the Vampire. Kept 
    us awake, especially thru NJ. 
    
    Coming back, the same thing except we need to worry about the
    commuter traffic in NY and Hartford. There is a restaurant 
    after UConn (Storrs) before MA, off the highway, called the
    Book Exchange or something like that, which my brother stops
    at, he has 2 young kids and they seem to like the place.
    
    Enjoy your trip.
    
    Eva                           
    

The problem we have with traveling in the evenings with my son (now 19 mths)
is that he will fall asleep in the car at around 7 when we drive down to NJ.
this makes for a pleasant trip.  The problem arises when we arrive (around 10)
and he wakes up, refreshed from his 3 hour nap and ready to explore his new
surroundings for several hours, just when we are ready to go to sleep.

Lori