Conference moira::parenting

    I don't know how young they start, but you may consider the big
    brothers/big sisters "assoc".  I think it's pretty normal around that
    age for little boys to bond more closely with their Dads, and do
    father/son stuff.
    
    Do you have any "record" of his father?  A picture or something?  I'd
    suspect he's feeling a loss that's SO important to other kids, that he
    feels he doesn't have/never had/never will have.
    
    He HAS a father - just his father can't be with you guys because of
    xyz.  It may be time to try to explain a little more.  Then at least
    when his friends ask "Where's your father?" he has SOME answer.
    
    -Patty

    That's a tough one.  But I basically believe that fantasy at that age
    is normal and good.  Yet there has to be reality checks too.  So, my
    gut reaction would be to do both.  Let him pretend, and slip in the
    truth every so often.

    hmmm, would it be possible to find him a Big Brother?  Either from that
    organization, or something less formal - a relative or friend?

Hi, Sue.  First of all the technical stuff: in case no one has told you yet, 
most people read their notes in 80 column wide windows.  When you write in
132 columns, it is difficult to read the last words in each line, and some
people will automatically skip past those notes.  Therefore, you might want
to set your terminal width to 80 before writing notes, or make your lines
shorter.

As to your question:  my 2 children were conceived by artificial/alternate
insemination, anonymous donor.  They have 2 mothers and no father.  The younger
boy is 2 years, and 5 months old (tomorrow) and the older turns 7 years old
on Saturday.  

Our older son (Evan) has talked with us 3 or 4 times about not having a father.
We have explained to him the circumstances of his conception and he is fine
with that.  Recently he told me that he wished he had a dad, and when I asked
him whether it was that he thought he was missing out on something that a dad
could give him, or whether it was just that the other kids in his class 
all apparently have fathers and he wants to be like the other kids, then he
told me it was the latter.  He was very definate about this, which put my
heart at ease, though I tried not to show any of what I was thinking/feeling.

Basically, he is never going to be like "all the kids in the class".  However,
through the years we have made sure that he has met and made friends with many
other children who also have no fathers (and some who have no mothers).  
I believe that being around other kids with similar family structures has helped
him.  I think it has come up lately because we recently moved, and he is now
in a new school, in a new town, and the kids he goes to school with are
questioning him.  At least one kid has told him straight out that he is wrong
about his family because "it's impossible to have 2 moms."  Luckily, Evan is
pretty confident about this, but it will still be easier on him after his
schoolmates come to our house Saturday for his birthday party. 

What can you do?  There's lots of things.  I don't know what your personal
situation is, but if he has a father whom you know, you can tell him some 
things about him.  You don't have to give his name if you don't want to,
or you can give a nickname or first name only.  Regardless if if there is a 
father you can bring up, you can still tell him as much about the situation as
you think appropriate.  

You can also create a kind of surrogate father - someone who can fill whatever
needs you think he might have.  If he is just looking for someone to carry
the title, then perhaps you can give him a godfather.  If he's looking for 
someone to play with in a particular way, or to show him how to pee standing
up :-)  then you can ask male friends of yours to help you out and spend time
with him, even if it's just that the man (and possibly his own family) comes
over for dinner once in a while.  When Fathers' Day rolls around, your son can
make cards (at daycare, when the social pressure is most acute) for his
grandfather, or uncle, or a male friend. 

Lastly, as for the pretending, it might be no big deal.  You should make sure
that daycare, etc knows that it is just pretend, so you don't run into any
misunderstandings with them.  The closest we ever came with this was that
Evan called a friend of ours "Daddy" for a while, which we never said a word
about.  At the same time, "Daddy's" daughter was calling my spouse "Mumsy",
which was the mother name she was going by at the time (she now goes by Mommy).
Someone (don't remember who) described it to us pretty plainly:  he didn't
have a daddy and she didn't have a mumsy, so they just used the titles that
the other one used for his/her parent.  There was never any confusion who
was meant by it if they were to call from the next room.  Plus, they thought
it was silly, so they got a big kick out of it.  :-)

If you have any questions of me, feel free to ask.  Hope things go well with
your son.

      Carol

    Just a nit .... but everyone HAS a father and a mother.  Period.  No
    bones about it.  There are many many reasons that a father or mother or
    both may not be present in a child's life, but to tell them that one
    doesn't EXIST is akin to telling the child that part of them never
    existed!  
    
    How would you feel if your mother told you, when you were a little kid
    and so desparately WANTED a daddy to love "Sorry, you don't have a
    father.  Tough"  A lot worse than "Daddy can't be with us".  You can
    think to yourself that things are better this way (and in a lot of
    cases they are), but your child DESERVES to know as much as they can
    about "the other" person that is half of them.  That "father" might
    just be a shadow to you, but he's half of what your kid is all about,
    and the kid has a right to be informed, not just receive someone else's
    judgement ("he's not worth knowing about")on something so fundamental
    to their very existence.
    
    flame off ....
    
    -patty

   re 917.4 - I have to disagree - IMO, as I have explained to my son, it
   takes a *man's* and a woman's contribution (sperm and egg) to make
   a child - but it takes someone very special to *be* a FATHER - I
   don't and never will think of the person who helped make my son as
   his *father* but he is the man who contributed to his being.

   My son understands (he's 10+ now) that it takes 2 to make a baby/child;
   he also understands he does *not* have a father, as much as I wish
   I could give him/he could have one.........

   Debbi

    Well, I guess what you call "father", I reserve for the word "Daddy".
    What you call "man", I call "father".  Other than that, we're in
    complete agreement.
    
    I *think* that when a kid asks "Where's my father?", he more or less
    means "Where's the other person who helped me be here".  If there isn't
    a "daddy"-type person in the kids' life, he's probably pretty aware of
    that - the question is really directed more towards a "whatever
    happened to him anyway?".
    
    Terminology ....

Dear All,

Thanks for the replies I have had so far, It has somewhat put my mind at 
rest, however, just to put you in the picture.

I was having a relationship for a few months with someone who I didn't 
believe was anything other than a temporary relationship, I was told by
a gynagologist at the time that I couldn't conceive due to polysistic ovaries 
and therefore I had no problems with contraception (what a mistake??), 
anyway, what a blessing this has turned out to be I have now a son which
I have always wanted.

The father by the way did know my son was on the way and has been 
told that it was a boy, he was seperated from his wife and had two small
children of his own when I met him and even played and took out my
son's half sister a couple of times.  Unfortunately, he went through a bad
period with his wife and decided that he didn't want to go through it again
and therefore didn't want to become involved with my child, I haven't seen 
him since.

I do see my friend John (godfather) on a regular basis (friends) and Jamie 
is playing with him but knows that he is not his father.  I believe that Jamie
wants to be like most of his friends and have a Daddy not that he is loosing 
out in any other way.

I am sad that he doesn't have a real father but hopefully in the future I will
meet someone that my son will like also (most important) and we will then
become a family.  

Sue

    I am a single adoptive mother of a nearly 4 year old who started using
    the word "daddy" at about age 2. It drove me nuts at first as she would
    get angry at me and say she was going to her room to tell "daddy". 
    
    I have told her that we don't have a daddy at our house because Mommy
    didn't get married. I'm sure she is not asking about a biological
    father (especially since she told me that the picture in Church was of
    Mary praying for a baby). I think she is asking for what other kids
    have without really knowing what it means.
    
    I have asked her what she thinks her daddy would do if she had a daddy.
    She used to say things like "read a story"...her last answer was "clean
    the house". (Gosh, if that guy is around send him over. I don't know
    where she got it...)
    
    The thing which has been important to me is that she not think that not
    having a daddy has anything to do with who she is.It is becasue Mommy
    never married. She tells me to get married...She even says she is going
    to get married for a daddy (I'll worry if her prom date is 40).
    
    She has had a few men (papa, godfather, uncles) in her life but none
    are around with enough regularity to replace a dad. I think a dad's
    love helps a daughter feel special and may even model later
    relationships with men. We've been lucky that she is very special to
    the men in her life.
    
    I do think it is important that she see families that are like ours. I
    could do more of that. There's a group called single mother's by
    choice...meets in Waltham once a month...has a national org in NY and
    chapters in other states...it's probably time for me to get invovled
    again and may be a source for others as well.
    
    The fantasies were there for a while. I used to dread going home to hear
    about the daddy and sisters and brothers she had who were downstairs in
    the laundry. One day I asked if her dad and mom both worked and she
    said: "No, my mom stays home." She even conjured up a fantasy mom and
    named her. That phase seems to have passed.
    
    Isn't it hard in ways you never expected ?
    

    
    I have a 4 year old daughter from my ex husband and a 1 year old from 
    an ex partner whom I havent see since before I had the baby.
    A month or so ago I was in the super market with both children in the
    double trolley. The baby was shouting dada at the top of her voice (as
    she does...sigh!) And my eldest shouted (also at the top of her voice)
    
    "LAURA... YOU DONT HAVE A DADDY!!!"
    
    Right in front of a group of about 4 old ladies the look they gave me
    could have curdled milk. That was the fastest shopping trip I have ever
    done.
    
    Tracey

A little unasked for advice, but...

Don't show that you are concerned about what people think.  There's a big
push right now to make "shame" a social push against women who have children
without marriage or without men.  The real result is that the children are
penalized.  If you show your own shame, your children (especially your
youngest) are going to feel that they should be ashamed of themselves.
For their sakes, the next time someone glares at you like that, look them
straight in the eye and smile.

You need to win this battle, for the sake of your children.

     Carol 
    

Yes, I totally agree, who cares what other people think anyway, it's what you
think that counts.

Surely we live in a society now where people can have their own opinions and 
this will not diswade from what we believe, or have any real effect on what we 
will do with our lives, especially having any effect on our own families and how
they live.

Regards
Sue

    Re .10
    
    I am not ashamed of my children or my life. 
    I was sharing what I considered an amusing situation. If I was walking
    round a supermarket and my knickers fell down I would be embarassed
    about it (though later amused... I hope :)) not because I am ashamed
    that I wear knickers.
    
    Tracey