Conference moira::parenting

    each state has its own law.  what state are you asking about?

    In colorado it is four years of age OR 40 pounds.  I kept Carrie in her
    seat until she started 1st grade, as she was a real light-weight and I
    have had it forcefully brought to my attention just how valuable car
    seats are with a small person.  

I'm interested in Massachusetts...but what happens if you cross state borders?!

Nancy

    From what I understand, Federal law states that all kids under 12
    should be "restrained".  There is no particular difinitive law which
    states that at under 40 lbs you need to be in X...  Common sense should
    rule here.  Placing an infant in just a seatbelt is crazy at best.
    
    For the most part, if the child is too small to use either a booster
    seat or seatbelt, use a carseat.
    
    Now we can have the discussion about whether to use the front or back
    seats and whether or not to face the seat forward...
    
    FWIW: I wish that there was some enforcement of even the general
    restraint portion for children.  I too often see young kids jumping
    around in moving vehicles.
    
    Dan

    
    I called the State Police about 2 years ago, and was told that all
    children under 5 (in MA) must be in a car seat/booster seat.  There
    was no height or weight requirement, just age.  I found that a little
    strange, since all 5 year olds are obviously not the same size, and 
    the smaller kids would be safer staying in a child seat a while longer.  
    The state, however, doesn't care how big you are, just how old.
    
    -Lynne 

There is one thing, though, that is very important and which I learned from
another PARENTING noter (Stuart Brook, note 30.25).  A child under age 4 can
be too tall to be safely kept in a car seat.  If the bump on the back of the
head is over the height of the back of the carseat, the child should be moved
to a booster seat (or another carseat, if you can find one the right size).  
I believe this is to avoid whiplash. 

Justin (tall boy now :-)  ) has just turned 3 1/2 and will be moving to a
booster seat very soon. 

      Carol

>There is one thing, though, that is very important and which I learned from
>another PARENTING noter (Stuart Brook, note 30.25).  A child under age 4 can
>be too tall to be safely kept in a car seat.  If the bump on the back of the
>head is over the height of the back of the carseat, the child should be moved
>to a booster seat (or another carseat, if you can find one the right size).  
>I believe this is to avoid whiplash. 
>
>Justin (tall boy now :-)  ) has just turned 3 1/2 and will be moving to a
>booster seat very soon. 

Thanks for bringing this up Carol, it is so important.  It is indeed to
avoid whiplash injury ... and on a small child, whiplash == broken neck!
or injuries virtually identical to sheaken baby syndrome!

This is no longer a personal problem in our house ... but I still care strongly
about it.  The one size fits all laws countries / states pass don't take
such things into account, and moreover, the car seat makers still haven't
figured it out yet either!

Since most laws simply state "an approved child restraint", the
transition between rear-facing infant seat and forward facing car seat is
only critical for most families on weight / height / fit.  The same applies
to the transition between car seat and booster seat.

Now the time to graduate to a conventional seatbelt is where the biggest
legal headache occurs, where the law is based on age and or weight.  There
are some cars where no booster seat is low enough to protect a child's head
from whiplash.  The older Cara-Voyagers were an example.

I probably broke the law for this in numerous places ... but what worried me
more than that, was that in the event of a crash, an improperly restrained
passenger could cause insurance problems ... possibly invalidating any insurance
claims for the child's injuries. OUCH!

I think in general, the police are not going to pay a great deal of attention,
unless  out to get some brownie points (you know ... to meet those ticket
quotas that they never admit to having), as long as the child is restrained
in an *apparently* suitable manner.  Put an infant in a lap belt and you're
pushing your luck, and similarly, putting your 50lb child in an infant seat
probably wouldn't cut it either!!!

Stuart

    Stuart
    
    Glad you clarified that.  With Carrie, when she was in the ist grade
    she was still well under the wieght requirment for car seats in CO, but
    much too tall to be safely in one.  it would be nice, indeed if SOMEONE
    would take into consideration the height/weight thingies.  I guess
    Colorado did this with the over 4 or over 40 pound law.  
    
    Such is the price of having fairy children.
    
    meg

    
    I'm 90% sure that in NH it's 4 yrs or 40lbs, and under, must be in a
    child safety seat.  Under 12 must be restrained.  If you cross state
    lines, it is your responsibility to find out what the laws are in that
    state, and you must obey them.  Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
    
    Unrestrained/improperly restrained children is not a "stoppable"
    offense.  Meaning they won't pull you over for it.  BUT, if they pull
    you over for something else, it's definitely ticket-able.  In NH, it's
    statute #265:107-a, and the fine is $43.20 per child. (I just got a
    speeding ticket, so I happen to have the whole "menu of fines" to refer
    to (-:)  
    
    I know that the pedi's office, and hospitals have the "rules" posted
    all over the place - call any one of them, in the state you're
    concerned about, and they should know.
    
    -Patty

>    
>    I know that the pedi's office, and hospitals have the "rules" posted
>    all over the place - call any one of them, in the state you're
>    concerned about, and they should know.
>    

A good source of this info is AAA ... including the rules for the Canadian
provinces, Mexico, etc etc etc

Stuart

    

        re-1

           Absolutely...  Weld went after protecting the kids.
       Police will and have pulled cars over because kids were 
       running around the vehicle like a jungle-gym.

                                                BJ

    RE: .-1
    
    If in fact the police can pull over cars wiht unrestrained kids, I've
    never seen it.  Even when obvious, the police don't seem to care.  They
    do care though, if you have a right front blinker out and happen to
    have a "reject" sticker from an inspection.  But I digress...
    
    Where are their priorities?
    
    Dan

    
    
         re -1 
     
            There a still officers out there that will do it...
     
                             BJ

    I received my carseat from Fallon Clinic at a discounted price if I
    attended a one hour car seat safety course.  They stated that once a
    child is 40 pounds, OR 50% of their head is over the top of the seat, it
    is no longer considered a safety device.
    
    Andrea

    
    	Timely note... we are in the process of selecting a booster seat
    	for (almost) 4 year old Emily, as she is 38 pounds and legally
    	needs a seat for another year.
    
    	My only quandry is which of my two car seats to sell ;-)
    
    

    
    	Is this information from the Red Cross an update to
    	Massachusetts Law, or a Red Cross recommendation?  In
    	note .11, you mentioned Massachusetts Law says 5.
    

    NH law says 4 years, period.  No weight restriction.
    
    

    re .17
    
    The Breverra car seat is much taller than any other I've noticed.  I
    keep looking at it wondering if it'd be comfortable .... anyone have
    one?  Do your kids like/hate it?
    
    

  My kids are 5.5 and 6.5 and they both still use the Breverra.  I think
it is comfortable because the times we don't bother to use it (like in
a rental car) they complain they can't see.  I've been meaning to double
check how tall of a child the seat is meant for.  My son is now 49"
(full price at Canobie Lake Park :^)

Elizabeth

    Massachusetts just changed it's car seat law and it went into effect
    yesterday (4/9/97)......Your child must be both 5 years old and over
    40 pounds to not use the car seat.  Failure to comply is a $25.00 fine.
    
    Roberta

>>    Massachusetts just changed it's car seat law and it went into effect
>>    yesterday (4/9/97)......Your child must be both 5 years old and over
>>    40 pounds to not use the car seat.  Failure to comply is a $25.00 fine.

The major point of the new law is that it is a PRIMARY OFFENSE.  Previously,
you would only get fined if you were pulled over for some reason and they then
noticed you had a child with no car seat.  Now, if they notice you have a child
with no car seat, they can pull you over for that reason alone.

						Brian

    I'm still confused about this. I'm planning to look at the state web
    site for more details. How is "car seat" defined? Is a booster seat
    a car seat? Is it really 5 years AND 40 pounds?  My 4 year old son 
    weighed 49 pounds at his checkup in  December; I won't put him in a 
    "car seat" that is only rated to 40 pounds. I do put him in a booster 
    seat, though.  I told my husband I'd risk the fine. 
    Sue

    
    	Sue,
    
    	The booster seat will qualify.
    
    	Karen
    

and they were giving out free carseats (I think still fining the person 
so they cost $25 if the fine was paid).

Other things to worry about - does it count as a moving violation (ie insurance
company takes you off their good driver list for five years)?

bjm

    
    
    What about my 6 year old who weighs 34 pounds?  Do I have to put her in
    a carseat when we travel to MA?  
    
    beth

    Beth,
    
    it does become an interesting issue.  Carrie didn't hit 40 pounds until
    she was over 7, but was too tall for the 50 pound car seat, or the
    booster seats I had seen.  Fortunately Colorado does have the 4 years
    or 40 pounds as Atlehi is running right in Carrie's footsteps, although
    she is a bit heavier.  (almost 30 pounds at almost 4 and stringbeanie)
    I do keep them in seats as long as they are in a seat rated for their
    weight and height.  
    
    meg

    
    	Yes.
    
    

>>    	Yes.

I assume that is to the question of the 40 pound question?  If so yes, no
matter the age, under 40 pounds requires some sort of car seat/booster seat -
at least that is what the news reports were saying last night.

bjm

From: 

  http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/100/Police__kids_should_be_in_car_seats.htm

(ie boston globe on line)

              Police: kids should be in car
              seats

              Associated Press, 04/10/97 00:01 

              BOSTON (AP) - At a police traffic
              crackdown in the city's Dorchester section,
              police were pulling people over and handing
              out child safety seats. 

              Police who stop cars by the side of the road
              usually hand out speeding tickets. But at this
              Morrissey Boulevard traffic stop Wednesday,
              they mostly handed out warnings to motorists
              violating a new law that requires car seats for
              small children. 

              And a couple of lucky people ended up with a
              free $110 child safety seat along with their
              warnings. 

              ``One woman from South Boston was
              elated,'' said State Police Lt. Brian Greeley.
              ``She couldn't afford to buy the seat itself.
              Why give her a $25 ticket when she had a
              hard enough time purchasing the seat itself?'' 

              The law, which became effective Wednesday,
              requires children to ride in a car seat until
              they are at least 5 years old and weigh more
              than 40 pounds. Violations bring a $25 fine. 

              The police traffic stops came after a nearby
              news conference. 

              ``Our mission is to save lives. ... Today, we
              were showing we cared about her children
              and we wanted them safe,'' Greeley said. 

              The Child Passenger Safety Law also says
              children 5 and older have to wear a seat belt,
              and police can stop drivers solely for having a
              child under 12 in the car not wearing a seat
              belt. 

              The Governor's Highway Safety Bureau has
              also been urging people not to let children
              under 12 ride in the front seat because of the
              possible danger from exploding air bags. 

              The bureau has been waging a statewide
              campaign to promote air bag safety. The
              slogan: ``The Back Is Where It's At!'' 

    I'm still concerned about this law.  My 4yr old is 40 pounds, but too
    tall for a carseat.  If I put her in a booster seat her head is a
    little above the back seat of the van and I was told that is very
    dangerous.  I'm wondering if there is a booster seat that is not
    too high.  Otherwise I'll risk the $25 and save her neck. 
    
    P.S.  I always have her in a seatbelt with the shoulder strap. 
    
    Rose

    Rose, 
    
    My daughter, 5 in 3 weeks, is 44.5" tall and a whopping 36lbs, there is
    no way she would ever fit in a car seat.  What we use is a Kangaroo
    booster seat.  It's been discussed elsewhere in PARENTING, but
    basically it is a big foam seat that that is very high in the back (we
    have a van, too, and the booster extends up beyond the seat back) and
    also has extended sides so when she falls asleep in the car she has a
    place to rest her head.  You need a lap AND shoulder belt for it.  They
    are expensive, we paid $70 two years ago, but it's worth it.
    
    We've been very happy with it.
    
    /Susan

    
    	Hmm, I guess I'm lucky not to have that minivan yet.
    	
    	Emily's (4 years 11 months) is 43 pounds, 75th percentile for
    	height.  She sits in a Gerry booster seat, with a shoulder and
    	lap belt (and a Safe-T-Fit to keep the straps off her neck). 
    
    	Her head is not above the seat.
    
    

    Karen,
    
    We just bought the mommy-van 2 weeks ago.  I can't believe I'm writing
    this, but I LOVE IT.  It's so easy to get the girls in and out and
    Kimberly is thrilled that she can actually see out the window now.
    
    What a difference from the Sable I drove, I don't think I will miss
    that car at all (the people that bought it are coming to get it today,
    yeah, yeah, yeah!).
    
    My van is the nice shiny, white Windstar in the HLO2 parking lot.
    
    /Susan

    Century makes a booster seat named the Braverra (I think).  I have one
    in my car for my grandaughter.  The back of the booster comes up high
    enough to "act" as a headrest.  The seat is not that high off the
    actual car seat, maybe about four inches.  It uses the car seat belts. 
    I think it's pretty good.