Conference moira::parenting

    
    I don't have a problem with mom giving me advice when the time comes...
    What I do have is a sticky situation due to Mom & Dad, & other family
    members being (heavy)
    smokers, and what to do to get them to understand the new "NO SMOKING"
    rules that will be in effect......)8
    
        Lynne

    Lynne,
    
    There are quite a few smokers on my husband's side of the
    family and we were faced with your situation also.
    
    We used Steven's Christening (December 30th) as the time
    to tell these members that if they'd like to smoke in
    our home, they were welcome to go down cellar.  We set
    up a few chairs and ashtrays down there and have never had
    a problem.
    
    		Good luck!  Linda

    I am the only smoker left in my house.  My boyfriend quit smoking a
    year ago and I've been smoking OUTSIDE ever since - even in the
    winter time - Same rules apply for every smoker that visits.  
    We all get our shoes on and coats and go outside and FREEZE!  
    
    Before my boyfriend quit we both smoked around Samantha.  She seemed
    to constantly have a runny nose and/or some type of cold.  After we
    stopped smoking in our house she cleared right up - So it is true
    what they say about second hand smoke!!
    
  Just make your rules and stick by them!!
    
    

    We have this problem in my home, except it's only with my husband.  My
    brother who smokes also knows not to smoke around me or my son.  Mainly
    because I don't like it and it bothers me and I don't want my son's
    little lungs to get cloged with second hand smoke.  
    
    MY husband does however go outside in the warm weather and smoke but in
    the winter when it's to cold out he either goes to his workshop and
    smokes there or waits till Alex and I go to bed or he goes into the
    bathroom where we have exhaust fans and smokes in there.  I hate having
    him smoke in the house because it stinks and makes everything in the
    house smell like smoke.  I have a friend who is going through the same
    problem with her husband.
    
    We know just tell people who come to visit and they smoke to either
    please do so outside or wait till they go home and do it there.
    
    Liz

    
    I used to smoke, my dad and b-i-l smoke constantly.  I have NEVER
    smoked in my house - occassionally on REALLY cold nights, I'd smoke in
    the basement, other than that, I'd smoke in outside.  I wouldn't smoke
    in the car when the kids were with me either.  Eventually it got to be
    such a hassle, I quit.
    
    My dad and b-i-l still smoke.  When we bought the house (and I was
    pregnant), I seized the opportunity.  Told everyone that it'd be so
    great to have a new house etc etc, and I wasn't going to smoke in it
    because I didn't want it to get all dirty/smelly, and didn't think it
    would be good for Chris - they took the hint.  Plus the fact that I
    didn't have an ashtray!
    
    Over the years I've had to ask several people to either put it out, or
    take it out side.  Only a few of the "rudest" people gave me some dirty
    looks, but most everyone else apologized, and went outside.
    
    Someone once had a sign they put on the outside of their house "NO
    SMOKING - OXYGEN IN USE!"  and people were unsure enough that they kept
    the cigarrettes out.  It's your home - you make the rules.  Make 'em
    and stick to them.  If it's hard for you to just come out and SAY it,
    then DO something that reiterates your feelings.  Paint the walls, and
    make a point of telling people that you've quit smoking and scrubbed
    out the whole house and painted to get rid of the residual smoke, and
    that it smells a lot cleaner/nicer, and it's nicer not having
    everything smokey.  When they come to visit the new paint will help
    remind them.  And if they forget and light up, when they ask for an ash
    tray, you could then act surprised and say "I threw them all out when I
    quit!" or "when I had the baby" or something ....  Personally I'd opt
    for just trying to tell them.
    
    I understand your hesitation.  My baby's dad's parents and sister and
    brother smoke *CONSTANTLY*.  You can't walk into the house and run
    right back out without stinking.  And anytime that we've asked them not
    to smoke, I've gotten a lot of dirty looks and remarks that I'm being
    ridiculous or uptight.  They want Jonathan to spend over-nights and
    w/ends up there, and I *ABSOLUTELY* refuse! (irrational mother).  But,
    you can't take it personally.  They can think whatever they want about
    me - I'm protecting my son's health, and as long as there's anything in
    my power that I can do for him, I am certainly GOING to!  Sticks and
    stones...  
    
    And for the doubters, there's a commercial they're running in
    Massachusetts, I forget who pays for it, but it has a pretty strong
    impact.  No sound.  Black background.  White letters.  About 30
    seconds.  Goes something like this;
    
    	This message is brought to you by the xyz (whoever paid for it)
    
    
    	We would like to dedicate this
    
    
    	in memory of
    
    	The 3 people in Massachusetts
    
    	Who died today
    
    	Because of someone else's smoke.
    
    	Isn't it time we made
    
    	Smoking history?
    
    
    Before this commercial my (ex)boyfriend didn't believe a WORD I had to
    say about the effects of second-hand smoke, and even after gathering a
    LOT of literature from the libraries and lung/cancer assocs, he still
    thought I was all wet.  To see it on t.v., that 3 people are dying, per
    day, in 1 state.  He's starting to get the idea that they aren't joking
    about this!!  And maybe starting to lose the "Well, we grew up with it
    and it hasn't hurt us!"  yet.... 
    
    Of course anytime my 8 year old gets near a smoker, he'll cough and
    tell them to stop it because he can't BREATHE when he gets near smoke!!
    My poor dad got the message last week cuz Chris wouldn't hug him
    goodbye again "because he smells all smokey".  Um, er, sorry Dad!
    
    Hope this helps!
    

    If all of the above doesn't get your attention, consider the investment
    you have made, called your home.  If and when you go to sell it,
    you typically show it at least partially furnished.  The smoke smell
    does not leave couches, drapes, walls rugs etc.  It lowers the appeal
    value....and with the number of smokers in the U.S. having dropped
    25% already....as well as reduces the per centage of people that would
    even consider buying.  This extends the time on the market and perhaps
    even reduces the value.  (I know when I was looking at homes a few
    years ago, it didn't make any difference what they looked like, if
    I smelled smoke, it turned me right off because I knew, there would
    be some work to get the house cleansed and I was out of there!)
    
    Logic doesn't always make sense to your friends with a habit, but
    once you get the internal conviction...whatever it takes-health of your
    children, visiting children, your own health, your pride of how your
    home smells, or the resale value....it doesn't really matter where you
    get the conviciton, once you have it, from that moment on, you have
    the strength to say "Not in my house!"
    
    Jim

    re .5
    
    While it may seem nicer to let new paint or comments about
    cleaniness hint to people that smoking isn't allowed, I 
    think it's actually kind of rude not to be clear.
    
    I'm not a smoker, but if I were, I'd much rather get a straight
    "thou shalt not" than a series of ambigious hints and then
    dirty looks when I failed to correctly guess what the hints
    meant.
    
    This may be a cultural/gender-style kind of thing, and I know
    people who prefer "hints"--but hints don't always work to 
    convey your desires, while a "No!" will do it every time.
    Why make your guests puzzle it out?
    
    (This is a hot button for me, so I may be over-reacting to a 
    side issue.  No offense is meant.)
    
    		-John Bishop

We have banned smoking from our house and we tell everyone
that there is absolutly no smoking in the house.  Once in
a while someone new will try to light up and we inform
them of the no smoking policy.  My sister once tried to
smoke in front of the fireplace and claimed she could 
blow the smoke up the chimney, out she went!  No exceptions!

Also the words "smoke" and "second hand smoke" are deceptive.
Most of the discharge from a cigarette is heated ash which
when it cools falls onto whatever surface is available
and stays there, like a volcano.  Therefore if someone
smokes in a house, but not around the children ie after
bedtime or when they are at school, the smoke does not
just "go away" it settles waiting for the children to
arrive, stir it up and breath it in.  That is why your
children can visit a smoker who will swear that they
"Don't smoke around the children while they visit."
and your kids clothing smells like they rolled in it.
On the other hand second hand smoke is a cumulative
effect and it is unlikely that short term occasional
exposer to second hand smoke will probably not harm
them.

In summary:

  1. Do have a smoke free home and smoke free day care.
  2. Don't worry about sleep overs at smokers, but send
     older clothing and wash it and them as soon as they
     come home.
  3. Warn all smokers that there is a great danger to 
     childrens faces from adults holding cigarettes at
     thier sides and that such an "accident" would 
     not be forgiven after they have been warned.
  

And we don't even have children yet!

Four years ago when we went looking for a home to 
purchase, we were completely turned off when we 
went into the home of smokers.  In fact in one home
I walked in first with my husband right behind me
and stopped so abruptly he slammed into me...I turned 
around and refused to even look further into the house.
Not only did it STINK - there was a cloud of smoke 
hanging in the air.  The real estate agent was mad at
us for not going in and told us we were rude!!! we were
stunned at her reaction - she told us a little paint and
carpets cleaned would get rid of the stink - but I beg
to differ when there is that much smoke it absorbs into
the wall board and nothing covers it up.  This was the
same women who showed us a house with 6 cats in it - 
after we specifically told her my husband was EXTREMELY
allergic to them!!! She thought it would be okay 
because they shut them in the bathroom.  When we told
the owners we WANTED to see the bathroom - we were told 
"it's just like any other bathroom" - we insisted! And 
what we found was horrifying - the 6 cats are locked 
up in the bathroom during the day and they pour the kitty
litter directly in the bathtub (just imagine the smell).

Getting back to smoking - being as I am a former smoker -
10 years April 1st - I do understand other people and their
need to smoke - but not in my home.  We ended up 
building our own home and the rule was from day one!!! NO
SMOKING in the house - this included ALL the sub-contractors
who worked on the house!!! We had to replace the first 
electrician because he didn't take us seriously!!! (Evidence:
Cigarette butts on the ground around the house). Also when 
our friends and family started visiting - we told them up 
front if you cannot abide by our rule of not smoking in the house
then don't bother coming - NO EXCUSES!!! We feel that we pay the
mortgage - we make the rules.  And your right because we are 
up front BEFORE people come to the house - they say they respect
our rule.  Our friends that smoke either go out on the deck 
(with the door closed) in the good weather - and in the garage
in the bad weather. (we set up chairs, table, ashtrays and even
a blanket or two).  My mother-in-law smoked up until a year
ago - and my husband was a bit miffed when I wouldn't bend the
rules for her but I stood my ground - now I'm glad I did - she 
was forced to go longer betwwen cigarettes and ended up finally
taking her doctors advice and quiting.  

    What do you do when you rent an apartment in a three family home and
    the people that live in the apartment below you smoke like chimneys? 
    Everytime I come into the hallway, it reeks of cigarette smoke.  In the
    Summer time, when I have my windows open, I lie in bed at night and the
    smell comes up into my bedroom.  My son has upper respiratory problems
    and cannot be around cigarette smoke.  How do I approach these people
    and ask them not to smoke in the common hallway?  How do I address the
    issue of the smoke coming up into my bedroom windows?
    
    Lori B. 

    
    <-- Look for a another apartment, non-smoking!
    
    

    Take it up with the landlord.  Seems I've heard a lot of stories about
    smoking being forbidden in common areas like hallways, stairwells,
    laundry rooms, lobbies, etc.  Of course, that may only apply to condos
    and ordinances vary from town to town.  But ask the landlord anyway. 
    He should know that cigarette-smoking tenants are raising his insurance
    premiums! (Most insurance companies offer discounts to nonsmokers; I
    would think the same thing applies to rental property.)

    I can imagine how bad it must be to have smoke in common areas.  My
    husband works for a small company where the President and several of
    the VPs smoke, therefore, there is no "non-smoking" or "restricted"
    smoking policy in place.  Walking into the lobby of the building is
    disgusting.  The receptionist is a HEAVY smoker and the lobby reeks. 
    My eyes sting just walking through there and the smoke clings to my
    clothes.  I can't imagine how they think it's a proper atmosphere to
    present to clients, etc.
    
    As far as our home goes, no one smokes under any circumstances.  My
    husband's aunt and uncle smoke and they have always gone outside without
    our ever having to ask them to, his mother, on the other hand,
    complains and complains about going onto the porch, but that's her
    problem to deal with.
    
    Susan

    re: John .... 
    
    I meant to "hint" if you couldn't find it to just come out and SAY it. 
    I've always told people ahead of time there's NO SMOKING.  Actually, to
    take it a step further, when there was going to be a family function at
    my father's (who smokes), I said I wasn't going because they'd be
    smoking and the house would be smokey etc.  They agreed not to smoke,
    and didn't, but we still stunk afterwards.  Just from the stuff "lying
    around" I guess.
    
    It's "their" bad habit - you shouldn't have to risk your life because
    of it!

    re: .11
    
    Moving is not an option at this time.  Other than the smoking tenants
    downstairs, I have a wonderful apartment and my rent is extremely
    reasonable.  I don't think I'd find an apartment comparable to what I
    have for the amount of rent I pay, but that's another topic completely. 
    
    
    re: .12
    
    I will bring up the smoking to my landlady, but I don't really think
    she'll do much about it, other than possibly ask them not to smoke in
    the hallway.  I remember when she had an issue with the fact that I had
    gotten a cat.  I asked her why I couldn't have the cat and she said
    something about the cat doing damage to her property.  I then came back
    with, "But the cat's declawed and is litterbox trained, so how much
    damage can the cat do?  And besides, the people downstairs smoke like
    chimneys and a lit cigarette can do a lot more damage than a cat."  She
    never bothered me about the cat again.  
    I have yet to see the woman who lives downstairs without a butt in her 
    mouth, it's so disgusting!!!
    
    Lori B.
           

Does the woman downstairs *know* that your son has lung problems?  I don't
get the impression from your notes that you have talked to her about it.
I think that if you phrase it in terms of him having lung problems and
how the smoke will aggravate that, and you would appreciate it if she 
wouldn't smoke in the common areas, then you are likely to have more
success at getting your message across.

My son has lung problems from his prematurity. He came home on oxygen the
first time and we had the Christening 2 days later.  There are a few smokers
in my family, but we put the 'no smoking, oxygen in use' signs up, and
no one smoked. In fact, the party was outside and a few of my cousins asked
if there was a particular place out there they could smoke.  And whenever
we visit any of my relatives that smoke in their houses, they do not smoke
while we are there as that could be harmful to my son.  

So you might be surprised that she might agree not to smoke in the common
areas. It's worth a try. 

Cathy

    I'll talk to her when I see her, provided she can take the butt out of
    her mouth long enough to talk to me.  I refuse to talk to her if/when
    she's smoking, and like I said, I have yet to see her when she doesn't
    have a butt hanging out of her mouth.  Maybe I'll just right her a nice
    little note.
    
    Lori B.

    I am a non-smoker and always have been but grew up with two parents who
    smoke like freight trains.  My personal feeling is that it is their
    right to smoke and if they want to kill themselves then so be it, but 
    don't do it (smoke) around my child.  When they come to our house, they 
    do not smoke unless they go outside onto the porch, when we go to their 
    house, they run two air cleaners that do an OK job but still smoke.
    
    My father lost both of his parents to smoke related deaths but this
    still hasn't detered him from smoking three packs a day.  Someday, he
    might wake up and realize what he is doing, but I doubt it. 
    
    Lisa C.

    re .17, "I refuse to talk to her..."
    
    If you approach this in an adversarial manner, you're almost bound
    to fail.  I'd suggest putting it in terms of a request from a third
    party, e.g. "The doctor says smoke aggravates the baby's lungs, and 
    he suggested that the common areas of the building be kept free of 
    smoke--can you help?".
    
    I think you should talk to her even when she is smoking--I know most 
    people would find a note from a person who could just as easily talk
    to them pretty wierd--wierd enough to be threatening.  And written 
    words can more easily be misunderstood than spoken ones, as there's
    no opportunity to re-state or reply or interact.
    
    This means that you're going to have to swallow your anti-smoking
    feelings for a few minutes.  Think of it as one of the many bits of
    work you take on for your child.  Remember that you want this woman
    to do you a favor, and think of it from her side as well--she 
    probably doesn't think that smoking is nasty, or that temporary
    exposure to smoke in a hallway is dangerous.  Direct confrontation
    is equivalent to saying "You are a bad person", and no one will 
    respond positively to that.
    
    I'm a passionate anti-smoker, but I recognize there are times when
    I have to keep that to myself.  It's like confronting people who 
    litter or park in the wrong places--it feels good for a second or
    two, but it's almost always turned out to be a a mistake when I've
    done it.
    
    		-John Bishop

    re: .19
    
    I agree with what you're saying, but why should I, or my child, have to
    be exposed to her smoke in the process of confrontation?
    
    Lori

    John,
    
    thank you for putting that in.  My immediate response yesterday was to
    flame at .17, as I am a smoker, although I do my best to be considerate
    of others.  The tone of the note was such that if I were approached by
    a person in this frame of mind, I would totally tune the person out,
    and get very defensive.  
    
    A considerately phrased request, however is something I am always
    willing to try to accomodate, even when it will lead to my discomfort. 
    We have banned smoking in the house when people who have health issues
    (Asthma, heart problems, whatever) are over for stays, and it works. 
    However, a person who comes on like gangbusters and acting hysterically
    is destroying the message of concern for their heath, and more like
    someone who is simply out to cause trouble.
    
    Meg 

    re: .21
    
    I don't know what you think I said that was so mean.  I am a very nice
    and considerate person and in no way do I want to make any kind of
    trouble.  All I said was that I did not want to approach this person
    while she was smoking.  Nor should I have to expose myself
    or my child to her smoke and that I have never seen her without a
    cigarette in her mouth, which may make it impossible for me to do so. 
    What's so terrible about what I said.  I too am an ex-smoker, but never
    did I smoke around children or where it may be offensive to others.  I
    feel that a nice note asking her to refrain from smoking in the hallway
    would in no way be a threat to her.
    
    Lori

I am also passionately non-smoke oriented.   However,
I feel that no matter how nicely intended the letter
is, it will be construed as a personal attack and will
probably be torched along with any hope you might have
of getting cooperation from this person.  Not that you
are asking for votes or anything, but I'd vote for a
simple conversation as per John's recommendation.

Good luck.

    re: .22
    
    I think these are the phrases seen as inflamatory in .17:
    
    > provided she can take the butt out of her mouth long enough to talk
    to me
    
    > I have yet to see her when she doesn't have a butt hanging out of her
    mouth
    
    You did substitute "cigarette" for "butt" in .22... this string is a
    demonstration of how the written word comes across more harshly than
    perhaps intended; I'd recommend a brief, tactful conversation.
    
    /dlw

    
    re .22
    
    Rather than consider the discomfort and potential dangers of talking 
    to your neighbor shen she is smoking, you might try to view it as as 5
    minutes spent to alleviate a LOT of smoking time in the future.  It's
    an incremental gain over your present situation.  ..and certainly,
    approach her by yourself; try to leave your little one with someone else
    for the time.
    
    FWIW, it's also my experience that the spoken word is usually taken more
    kindly than the written word - it's more personal.
    
    
    Jamd

    Lori,
    
    i would suggest you read your last sentence in .15 and the information
    presented before about your reply .17.  I can guarantee that if you
    approach anyone with this attitude verbally or by note, you will most
    likely destroy any cooperation you might get from your other tenant.  
    
    Soft words and gently asked requests go much further than the attitude
    I feel you are displaying in these replies.  Sometimes we all have to
    compromise short-term discomfort for long term gains.

If you have a comment that is of interest only to Lori and to how she words 
her notes, I suggest that you please send it to her by mail.  If you have 
suggestions as to how to approach a situation in which an apartment neighbor 
smokes and it bothers you, feel free to enter it here.

If you request advice, and the advice of not relevant to you, it's often 
better to simply ignore it, adapt it to your situation, or further explain 
your situation (such as what you've already tried).  If someone asks for 
advice, and for every suggestion given has a reason why it won't work, it may 
seem like they are just venting.  That's OK too, but label it as such.

Clay Satow
co-mod    

There is an interesting custody case happening right now.  The parents of a one
year old are battling for custody of the child.  The father's case:  The mother
smokes....which he says contributed to the child's problems with asthma,
bronchitis, and ear infections.

Could be an interesting descision.

michael

    Actually, there's more than a few cases across the country where
    custody has been denied because that parent smokes, and it's not "in
    the best interest of the child" to have them with that parent.  Of
    course I assume that all other factors were essentially equal.
    
    As for smokey neighbors .... in the apt building I just moved out of,
    there was an older couple down the hall who smoked constantly.  In
    order to air out their apt. they'd leave their apt doors open, thus
    making the hall all smokey.  At first I'd just complain loudly, in the
    hall, how smokey it was.
    
    After that didn't work, I went down there one day and knocked on their
    door.  They were watching TV and there was *SO* much smoke it looked
    like there'd been a fire in the apt!  I said to them;
    
    "Hi!  I live down the hall, and was wondering if you would please close
    your apt door when you smoke - it makes the hallway real smokey when
    it's open"  The lady said "But we're just trying to get some air into
    the apt - we have the slider open and want to get a breeze through".  I
    said "Well, I understand, but it makes the hallways REAL smokey, and it
    really bothers us, especially my children".  They didn't look thrilled,
    but said okay, and we didn't really have a problem after that at all. 
    Once in a while you could smell it, but nothing like you used to be
    able to.
    
    FWIW - It was so smokey in the time I talked to them, I felt sick to my
    stomach when I got back to my apt - but it was worth it in the long
    run, not having to smell it every night I came home, and not having the
    boys complain about it.
    

    I 'love it'. Its too smokey because they are smoking so they open the
    sliders to get some fresh air, and the apt door to the hallway.
    Geeeeee.
    Why not just stop smoking?
    
    I know... its an addiction which rivals cocaine addiction.
    
    Jeff

    Not sure if this is related to this string, but it does have to do
    with the effects of smoking on children - in this case, the unborn
    child - I saw this in todays paper:
    
    Scientists have found chemical evidence that nicotine can reach a
    non-smoking woman's fetus if she is routinely exposed to secondhand
    smoke.  The evidence, published in the Journal Of The American Medical
    Association, turned up in hair samples from newborns, suggesting
    long-term exposure to nicotine and other potentially harmful components
    of tobacco smoke.
    
    The study didn;t investigate whether the exposure affected the babies'
    health, but previous research suggests children of women exposed to
    secondhand smoke while pregnant might have an increased risk of subtle
    problems with speech, language, intelligence and attention span.
    
    

    Just took my son to the ER yesterday because he had a fever, coughing
    to the point of choking and was trying to stick crayons in his ear.
    He has his second ear infection and second bronchial infection in his 
    22 months. No big deal, except I have a phobia of this becoming chronic..
    
    My husband smokes, and inspite of my pleading and threating, and using
    logic, he will not stop. The horror of it is that he smokes with our
    son in his lap or next to him on the couch.
    
    I quit 3 years ago using the patch and inspite of my success he will
    not attempt it. Infact, the more I try to get him to quit, the more he
    seems to smoke.
    
    I have tried to get hime to read literature, listen to statistics, but
    NO WAY. 
    
    1) Anyone one else ever dealt with a brick wall on this and was
       successful in getting he/she to quit... how?! 
    
    2) Anyone experience smoking vs. ear infections with their child? 
    
    
    

Would he listen to the pediatrician ?

    
    People who smoke (drink, overeat/binge, etc) won't quit until they decide 
    to it for themselves. My sister-in-law smokes and even though this
    summer she helped care for her father round the clock as he died a
    painful death from lung cancer she still won't quit. Sometimes trying
    to convince the person only makes it worse, as you seem to feel it's
    doing.
    
    How about making some rules, i.e., if he's smoking your child can't be
    in his lap, no smoking in certain rooms of the house. Nobody allows
    my s-i-l to smoke in their house, so no matter what the weather if she
    wants a butt, outside she goes. I even hate her holding the baby just 
    after she has smoked cause she still reeks of smoke. My 3 1/2 year old
    is always telling her that smoking is yucky, but still no luck.
    
    Good luck in your (unfortunately) up-hill battle.
    
    Patty

    
        One thing I have to say is to try to make it so the child isn't
    in the room while the person is smoking. If they refuse to not smoke
    around the child.
    
        I have ashma and my son smokes. I have him to to his room or
    outside to smoke. I find it very uncomfortable because I feel as
    if I have no oxygen, just smoke going into my nose. It makes it
    very difficult to breath.
    
        Rosie

    wellll,
    
    When I was a child I was drastically allergic to cigarette smoke [only
    moderately so now].
    
    When my parents were told that the 4-6 packs a day of smoke that they
    put into my air was the proximate cause of my chronic bronchitis, their
    response was [in brief]: "well, she's off at school most of the time;
    so what medication will you give us for when she's home on holiday?"
    
    We're already having a bit of a dance about my coming child. My bottom
    line, as long as they smoke in their home my child will not be a
    visitor there.  They are welcome to visit my home any time, but they
    will not be welcome if they smoke inside or within a reasonable buffer
    zone outside [say as far as the street]. If they smoke _near_ my
    child in any venue, they will not be welcome near him.
    
    I'm willing to be flexible on a situational basis; but there are
    choices. They made their choice with me -- choosing their addiction
    over my health [and, of course their own] despite repeated warnings. I
    can respect that choice without liking it. They have the same choice
    facing them with their grandson. I will similarly respect whatever
    choice they make and plan accordingly.
    
      Annie

    Can't help with the behavior modification end of it, but can I suggest
    something for your son's environment?  My son has moderate allergies -
    the usuals : dust, pollen, pets.  To make sure he has at least one
    "safe" haven, we keep the door to his room close at all times, and he
    has a HEPA air filter going in there all the time.  I can't control all
    the allergens during his day, but I can provide an environment where he
    can breathe easier at night.  All pets are banned from his room, also.
    A stop-gap measure, in your situation, but may provide some relief for
    your little one.
    Sarah

    
    Ummm, I hate to be a damp blanket here, but smoking is not always the
    root of all evil.  I agree that to smoke with a child in your lap is
    wrong, and that getting the husband to quit would be the best of all
    possible worlds.  However, I wouldn't expect any major health miracles
    to come to your child because of it.  Two infections in 22 months of
    life isn't all that bad, really, I have a friend who does smoke, but
    *never* in her house or car, only out of doors, and her little boy must
    have had 2 infections per calendar quarter for his first 5 years of
    life!  It turned out that he had some pretty serious allergies, and is
    now a much healthier boy, due to allergy medications.
    
    My husband and I are both smokers, although we are both quitting now 
    that I am pregnant again.  My parents were both smokers when my 
    brother and I were kids, and my brother was the healthiest child in 
    the 'hood, and I was the sickest (allergies, asthma, bladder problems, 
    etc.).
    
    My son, on the other hand, had *no* real illnesses in his first 2.5
    years (when he had solo/private daycare).  He then went into group 
    pre-school daycare, and drove Us nuts for 12 months 
    -- 6 ear infections, 4 bronchitis attacks, 3 stomach flus, and myriad
    colds, etc.
      
    Since my mom had just retired, we took him out after one year of
    pre-school, and let him stay home with her, and returned to the 
    healthy child zone.   When he started kindergarten, he had a short flurry 
    of frequent-illness.  Now, in 1st grade, he gets sick about as often as 
    as the rest of his combined 1st/2nd grade class -- about 2-3 times per 
    semester, with late fall/early winter being his worst season.
    
    Just another point of view.
    
    M.
    

	I'd agree with the last reply that 2 ear infections in 2 years
	is actually a *good* track record, and probably unrelated
	to the smoke.

	However, knowing how other people's smoke affects me, I wouldn't
	want someone smoking while holding my kids.  

	Rather than push your husband to quit smoking, perhaps you
	could find some time to calmly discuss some of your concerns
	about him smoking near or while holding the baby.

	If he wants to harm himself by smoking, he's old enough to make
	that decision.  However, as the baby's father, one would hope
	he'd do all he could to protect his child at this age.  Maybe
	you could reach some agreement about when it is inappropriate
	to smoke, such as when holding the baby.

	Karen

    
    If you would like/need any literature about the effects of second hand
    smoke, on children, try the following - they sent me oodles of stuff
    when I was trying to convince my boyfriend that our baby was NOT going
    to be spending time in his parents smokey house.  For what it's worth,
    his parents have since modified their behavior and smoke outside on
    their porch.  Some people won't ever learn though - they're watching
    his aunt (his mother's sister) suffering with emphysema right now -
    can't walk more than 2-3 steps without resting - and it hasn't caused
    one of them to seriously think about stopping.
    
    Anyway, here's some of the places I got information;
    
    o In Manchester, the Ask-a-Nurse hotline (626-2626?)
    o American lung association ((603)669-2411)
    o American Cancer Society (800-640-7101)
    o American Cancer Association (800-562-2633)
    o Cancer Information (800-422-6237)
    o Pediatrician
    o local hospitals
    
    There's also the American Heart Association, and more specialized
    hospitals (Dana-Farber in Boston etc) that may have more info.  I just
    called and asked them to mail me any literature that they had on the
    effects of second-hand smoke on children.  They were all QUITE pleasant
    and very helpful.
    
    I think the sheer VOLUME of data I was able to gather knocked a little
    sense into him.I took the literature and left it in the bathroom (since
    he REFUSED to read it!).  This gave him the opportunity to read it, in
    private, without me necessarily knowing that he read it. (men can be
    funny that way...)  I still don't know For Sure if he read any of it,
    but I think that he did, as his opinion changed, and he agrees with me
    - if they insist on smoking around him, then they won't see him. Cut
    and dry.  The same as I wouldn't let someone who was target-shooting be
    near him. It's not so different, really.
    

    Current sub-base noter here-
    Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, especially 691.40 and the
    writer who suggested setting up buffer zones.
    
    *) I know that 2 infections is minor, as I stated, I don't want this
       to become chronic. I have had very tough time with sinuses and
       conjestion,now. Alot of this was caused by years of smoking and now
       second hand smoke. I  know what it does to me and can only imagine
       that it's worse for our son. Right now, while I'm responsible for
       him, I want to offer him clean air or a close faximile!!!! 
    
    *) Follow-up - Last night Cody was in Dad's lap while Dad had a
       cigarette posed to be lit. I somply told him, given Cody's
       present condition, I would appreciate his "giving the little guy a
       break. I have told you this and would appreciate your considering him.
       I could be like alot of wives and make you smoke outside or down in the
       cellar. Pls let him breathe."    I got the usual filthy look, but
       amazingly enough, he didn't smoke THAT cigarette. Later on, he left the
       dinner table to smoke in the other room. 
    
       With step one accomplished, tonight I'll gently talk to him, request
       his help in setting up some kind of 'smoking zone' for Cody's sake.
       I gave up appealing to him for mine years ago. I look forward to
        breathing again, though.
    
    Thanks again, folks. 
    
    PS - I like the bathroom idea. I'll slip some literature into both of
    his Loo Libs.

    Hi - just a suggestion.  Depending on how your husband is, you
    may want to be sure to praise and thank him when he does honor
    your wishes.  Otherwise, he may just decide that he can't make
    you happy either way and he may go back to doing what he wants.
    
    Pam

    Here I go again and hopefully for the last time.  I quit smoking two
    weeks before I became pregnant with Chelsea Rose and unfortunately,
    started again when I was done breastfeeding her.  Well now that she
    is going to be 3 in May and I have been talking about quitting ever
    since I started again .... the day has been chosen ... Monday.
    
    I pick up my patch tonight from the pharmacy and I am taking Monday
    off to spend with my daughter.  I figured it will be a celebration
    of sorts and a good way to keep my mind off the bad habit I am
    breaking.  We are going to spend the day at Disneyland ... a place
    where you can really feel like a creep when you light up because it
    is over flowing with children.
    
    The first time I quit it was for Chelesa Rose ... a very strong
    motivator doing it for someone you love, but this time I am doing
    it for myself.  Doing it because *I* want to watch my daughter
    grow up .... because *I* want to feel better in the years ahead that
    I will share with her and my hubby .... and mostly because *I* want
    to love myself enough to get my head out of the denial trap it's been
    submerged in over all the reasons why I didn't want to quit before.
    
    I'll admit I love to smoke .... but there are alot of things I would
    love to do and I don't .... i.e. eat anything and everything my little
    heart desired ..... rob a bank and never have to worry about having
    some extra money ..... strangle a particular coworker who drives me
    nuts (cuz I let em) about every day of the week .... smoke, because
    it relaxes me, I like the taste, and the one after we make love always
    tastes so good .... oh what a web this one has weaved.
    
    Enough .... I am letting you all know because this notesfile is like
    an extended family for me.  Even though I don't get much time to
    write anymore, it's like visiting a good friend everytime I open the
    conference and read about what everyone is doing.
    
    Just looking for some encouragement and support for when I get here
    on Tuesday.  I'm confident that with my willingness and God's strength
    that the obsession to want to will pass ... but just in case I get
    here on Tuesdsay morning and feel like ripping the first person's face
    I see clear off their shoulders ... do you think you guys and gals can
    send me some warm fuzzy encouragements to get me thru the day.
    
    ...Lori

    OK, I'll start...
    
    Good for you for deciding to quit!
    It will be hard, but you'll have lots of us out here in cyber-space
    rooting for ya!
    
    I bet that when she is old enough, your daughter will be very, very
    proud of you for doing this.
    
    Keep us posted,
    /Deb

    I quit 13 yrs ago. It's tough but what worked for me:
    Aerobic Exercise- when you are are gasping for breath, it does not make
    you want to smoke.
    Stay away from other smokers for a while- it is too tempting to light
    up with them.

    You sound like me 7 years ago.  That's how long ago I quit and I have
    NOT had a cigarette since.
    
    I quit MANY times for others, the ONLY time it worked was when I quit
    for ME (for the same exact reasons you gave).
    
    I quit cold turkey but substituted gum for cigarettes.  I got as
    addicted to chewing gum as I had been to cigs- same feeling of panic
    when I didn't have a pack of gum with me, etc.  This feeling went away
    after a few months.
    
    DON'T give into the temptation to have a drag off of someone else's
    cig.  You will be right back to it before you realize it.  Also, DON'T
    quit for a few months/year/whatever and decide to have a cig. to make
    sure you're REALLY done the craving - again, you'll be back to it in a
    flash!  (These were BOTH things I did in all the times I quit except
    the last).
    
    You CAN do it - I have the most "addictive" personality and I haven't
    had a cig. for over 7 years.  I STILL crave one sometimes and STILL
    miss smoking.  But, you will be AMAZED at how digusting people who
    smoke really smell!  I couldn't believe I actually smelled like that! 
    Food wil taste so much better, your house/car will be so much cleaner,
    your family will be so much happier!
    
    YOU CAN DO IT!
    
    Linda

    Hi Lori,
    
    Congratulations and Good Luck to you!!  I too am an ex-smoker.  I quit
    when I had Chris, but started again before he was one (trying to "chum
    in" with a co-worker smoker )-:).  I cut down a lot when Jason was
    born, but didn't end up really quitting until he was about 2.  I guess
    that means that I've been "clean" for about 5 years.  Actually, the
    reason I quit, was because it was getting to be *SUCH* a hassle to find
    someplace that I was ABLE to smoke, that it was starting to take over
    my life.  If we were thinking of going out to the movie I'd think
    "Well, I don't know - then I'll have to sit there for 1.5-2 hours and
    not be able to smoke".  If we went visiting (aside from my dad, I don't
    know any other smokers), I *PANIC* when we were almost there, at the
    thought of the impending time without a butt, about to come.  It really
    did get that bad.  
    
    I never smoked in the living area of my house (I sometimes smoked in
    the basement), and mostly stuck to outdoors.  I didn't smoke in my car
    unless I was totally alone.  Then the new DEC Smoking policy came
    about, and I couldn't smoke at my desk.  And more and more it became
    more and more of a hassle to smoke.
    
    But I did it DIFFERENT than I'd ever done it in all the times I tried. 
    I stopped smoking "for today".  As with those AA programs, etc, I just
    tried to make it through "today".  I also hid the rest of my cigarettes
    in the cabinet, well out of view, but so that I KNEW where they were. 
    That alone took a lot of pressure off of me.  I knew that if I was
    really absolutely going to EXPLODE for need, there was one there.  The
    effect was very calming to me.  I made it hour by hour, day by day, and
    suddenly week by week.  The worst time for me was about 2 wks after I
    quit - suddenly the urges got a LOT stronger.  So instead of quitting
    "for the day", I'd try to make it another 5 mins, or 20 mins or hour,
    and really, it worked.
    
    AND my final saving grace was this thought .... IF I find myself too
    weak to make it through a whole day/week/month, and have 1 cigarette,
    it does NOT mean that I failed completely, and should not mean that all
    of a sudden I'm back to a pack/day.  It just means that I slipped a
    little, and need to re-strengthen my efforts.  It helped tremendously. 
    I found that I was my hardest critic in my effort to quit.  Everyone
    else was happy that I cut down a lot.  I hated myself if I even THOUGHT
    about wanting one - it made me feel weak and powerless.  I allowed
    myself the room to "fail" - I gave myself the crutches I needed to get
    through (that pack in the cupboard), and I didn't tell a lot of people
    until I had done stopped for a while.  I didn't want people asking me,
    all day long, about something I was trying to forget about.
    
    I've slipped up here and there since then.  I've probably bought about
    3 packs of cigarettes since then.  Most were just to piss off my
    boyfriend, but the fact remains, that there is still some sort of
    "pull" to them.  In all cases, I got my wits about me before I was
    "addicted" again, and tossed out nearly-full packs.  At that point,
    hanging on to them probably would have been worse.  And one night at a
    bar, after drinking way too much, I smoked just about a whole pack "for
    old time's sake", and felt SOOOOooooooo sick the next day, and couldn't
    breathe - it was enough incentive!!  
    
    It's hard to grasp the "your house will smell better", because right
    now, your house probably doesn't smell bad to you.  But I'll bet a
    non-smoker would disagree.  It took me a year or so before I noticed
    the difference, but now I can't *STAND* the smell of cigarette smoke!
    
    And my greatest reward of all .... Chris is very sensitive to smoke,
    and sometimes, when/if we're around some other smoker, he'll look at me
    and say "Mom, I'm really glad that you quit smoking!!"  Do it for
    whatever reason it takes - JUST DO IT!!
    
    Good luck, and if you ever need someone to hear you out or whatever,
    don't hesitate to get in touch ....
    
    -Patty

    Well it's been 27 hours and I haven't removed anybody's face from their
    shoulders!  I'm not sure if my desk this morning looks like a woman
    going thru first trimester cravings or a person who has just quit
    smoking .... but I have five packs of gum, two bags of sunflower seeds
    (one regular flavor ... one salsa flavor), a can of spicey V8, and a
    huge dill pickle I brought back from Disneyland!
    
    Disneyland was a perfect place to be while breaking the habit.  The
    park was packed due to the Holiday and the weather was in the high
    80's.  With my girlfriend, nine year old niece, Zack & Chelsea Rose,
    there wasn't much time to think about what I was doing.  We got to
    the park around 10:30 and left at 8:00pm ... a full day.  
    
    I must admit that the anxiety attacks hit about 4 or 5 times during
    the day, thought I couldn't breath (what a strange feeling for someone
    who can easily down a pack a cigs a day!), felt like I was gonna
    passout if I didn't get a smoke, but it only lasted about 30 seconds
    and then it was gone for hours.  When the worst one hit (mid day) I
    took a spin on Space Mountain, a great way to remove obsessive type
    thinking .... a nice fast roller coaster spinning thru the dark and
    going thru hair breaking turns .. never really makes me feel like a
    cig.
    
    Last night before I sacked out, it was a good time to review the day
    and do a little bit of inventory on my reasons for smoking and my
    reasons for quitting.  One that stood out in particular was how strong
    a drug can affect one's personal behavior and standards.  What I mean
    is simply this .... since Chelsea Rose came into our life, I promised
    myself that I would never smoke around her.  For the most part I stuck
    true to that promise.  But when the rains hit and there was no where
    to go (even though she was asleep in her room); I would have a puff
    in the bathroom.  When I had a day off and she was in daycare, there
    were quite a few times I slipped and smoked while cleaning the house
    or watching the afternoon soaps .... it's done and I'm not going to
    beat myself up big time over it, but it was important for me to see
    that the drug was so powerful that I broke some very important promises
    and inturn was very ashamed and disappointed in myself.  It was a good
    reminder on how if I continued that knowing myself I would have
    probably gotten more lax as time goes by.
    
    Anywho... thanks for all your kind words of encouragement and support.
    I can tell you that it really means alot to me and when I feel a moment
    of weakness, I pull up the notes file and get my warm fuzzies!
    
    I'll keep you all posted!

Wishing you every success in your endeavors!  I'll bet when you've
been a non-smoker for awhile, and the cravings have ceased, you'll
look back and be sooooo thankful to have made the decision and stuck
with it.

Leslie

	Warm fuzzies headed your way, Lori!

	Karen, a "reformed" smoker of 8.5 years

     Best of Luck Lori!  We know you can do it!  After all, you chose the
    best reason of all to quit smoking....you're doing it for yourself!
    
    Warm fuzzies!
    Serena
    

Hi, Lori.  I'm thinking of you today, and wishing you well.  

May you have a wonderful weekend, and become stronger each day!!  :-)

    Carol

    Thanks Carol!
    
    All is going day as I step thru Day 5.  Been battling a little bit of
    the mood swings this week, but I am sure this is the norm....mixed with
    a little bit of PMS, I'm what you call a real treasure to be around
    these days!
    
    For the most part this week hasn't been to bad, just those occasional
    moments when my body unconsiously screams out "Your suppose to be
    having a cig!".....and I tell my body that its confused and to shut
    up!
    
    Going to visit my sister in the mountains this weekend, so the
    get-a-way will be nice to keep my mind busy.
    
    A wonderful weekend to all and I'll talk at you Monday....which by
    the way is my birthday...part of the incentive to quit this week was
    its a birthday gift to myself!
    
    ...Lori

Happy birthday, Lori.  :-)

Hope it's going well.

    Carol

It's been 15 years for me.  The first week is the most
difficult; after a month, you only crave cigarettes after
meals and while sitting around drinking coffee.

You've made it thru the hardest part - keep going!!!

Things that helped me:

	o brushed my teeth whenever I couldn't stand it
	  anymore
        o went for a walk after every meal (the 10 minutes
          I would have spent smoking)
	o promised myself that I could have a cigarette
	  the next day, but I would not smoke today.
	o kept my hands busy, knitting, crossword puzzles,
	  worry beads, braiding hairs, anything
	o avoided situations where smoking was predominant;
	  bars, bingo, going out to lunch or dinner
	o carried around a glass of water to drink instead 
          of a cigarette

Pat

    
    15 years for me too - and quit on my birthday.  The first few weeks
    were hardest for me but I knew I had made it in the midst of a whopper of
    an argument with my husband. I had been carrying the pack around with
    me for all the reasons someone else mentioned. I grabbed the pack, lit
    up, sucked in deeply and expected to feel immediate relief - I expected
    that cigarette to make everything all right but it did not. In fact it
    didn't taste good at all.  I knew then I wouldn't be back.  Besides I
    was damned that I would waste all that suffering I had just gone
    through.  For the longest time, however, I got urges the strongest of
    which were while drinking alcohol, talking on the phone and driving. I
    avoided any drinking and smokey places for quite a while.  I carried
    carrot and celery sticks for my ride home from work and car trips.  I
    chewed gum like there was no tomorrow.  Gradually I eliminated or cut
    down on my crutches.  For years  I had dreams that I went back to
    smoking and might still find 1-2 yer year creap in even now.  It would
    never happen, however. I am now grossed out by it and cannot tolerate the
    smoke. 
    
    To quit smoking is a tremendous accomplishment and the best gift 
    to oneself.  I congratulate your every moment of freedom!   
    
    Kathy

	Kathy,

	You just reminded me of my most frequent dream while
	I was pregnant with my son.

	I would dream that I was smoking.  Sometimes I'd sneak them,
	sometimes I'd smoke in front of my husband (who hates
	smoke).  Then, I'd suddenly remember I was pregnant.  I'd
	wake up feeling guilty!

	Karen

	Lori,

	How are you doing?

	Karen T.

    Thanks for asking Karen!
    
    It's been 71 days and I stopped counting the hours and seconds a while
    back!
    
    I think the two months I spent de-weaning myself really eased the pain
    of quitting...I'm just not a cold turkey kind of gal, especially when
    it comes to smoking.  I only wore the patch for 6 days and decided to
    ace that program out the window...having a tendency to an addictive
    natured personality, I was finding myself a little two dependent on the
    patch and figured it had served it's purpose...which was sorta like a
    binky the first week!
    
    Got to work on my exercise program, the walking really helps and it
    makes me feel less guilty since my eating habits have been working a
    little bit overtime from the minute I stopped smoking.  
    
    Anywho...thanks again for thinking of me!
    
    ..Lori

	Hooray, Lori!!!!

	

Way to go, Lori!!  :-)

    Carol