Conference moira::parenting

    I skipped kindergarten and started 1st grade a month after turning 5.
    I thought it was great.  Being so young, you don't notice (from a
    social stand point) the 1+ year age difference with most of your
    friends at school.  I did notice it in high school when everyone got
    their driver's licenses before me and again in college when I wasn't
    "legal" until 2 1/2 months AFTER graduation.  But there were also
    advantages...I felt as though I was getting a "head start" entering the
    work force at 20 (that's what I thought at the time :) ), as a child I
    felt special and tried to excel.  Kids are very good at adapting to the
    situation.  When I'd look at the class below me and realize that is
    where I should have been according to age, I was glad I was in the
    higher grade.  The class below seemed "younger".  If your daughter has
    already mastered most of the basics, she could be bored going into 1st
    grade.  I was in much the same situation as she.  From looking at my
    older brother's books I taught myself alot of things.  I can't imagine
    if they sent me to kindergarten when I was already doing a 3rd grade
    mathbook at home.  I don't think I would have reacted very well to
    naptime!  I assume you are in Mass/NH.  Do they have testing available
    to determine if it is okay for her to skip?  I grew up in Michigan and
    there we had to go through a testing process in the school system
    before starting.  I think jumping from 8th to 10th grade (or something
    similar) might be hard because you have already established friends,
    etc.  But, since your daughter is just starting I bet she will do just
    fine!     

I started kindergarten "on time".  When I was in first grade, I was 
reading so well that I used to go down to second grade to read.  So at 
the end of the year, they just bumped me directly to third grade.   

I have never suffered for this, and if I were the parent in this 
situation would push for it.   

Socially, being a year younger was never even really known until it
came to driving and being "legal" in high school, but I went places
with friends who drove, and these days since "age" is 21, everyone is
in the same boat in high school so that's moot. 

Academically it worked out fine.  math was always my stronger subject, 
so I caught up in that to the 3rd grade level just fine, and then just 
went from there.   

I can not point to one negative thing that came from the experience. 

    
    I actually skipped two grades, one at the start of school as well as my
    junior year of high school.  Being born in the fall meant that I started 
    my senior year at age 15.  Aside from the age spread and graduating 
    without my initial classmates there were no significant issues.  I 
    entered the work force and continued my education at the same time.  
    Sixteen years later I am still in school, a chronic student.
    
    As for your daughter, you may find that the public school systems are 
    reluctant to let a child skip a grade.  My son was born 2.5 hours after 
    the deadline for him to start in a public school system in Mass.
    The school would not even consider letting him start until the
    "official" time even though he was more than prepared.  I believe 
    private schools have a tendency to be less rigid in these rules.  Once 
    in the system his "testing" placed him far beyond his grade level.  By 
    the start of third grade he was reading at a post-high school level, 
    sciences at high school, and his math at grade level.  Fortunately 
    the school had a program for "bright" students and he was able to 
    particiapte in other activities in an after school program.  Unfortunately 
    with the budget contraints on most public school systems, this type 
    of program is becoming rare.  Last summer we moved to a town without 
    such a program.  The curriculum is structured to offer various levels 
    of math and reading to meet the needs of the individual child.
    
    I would suggest speaking to the school about your daughter and the 
    options for her next year.  If advanced placement is not an option,
    perhaps you can work with the teacher to assure you daughter is
    challenged and doesn't find herself bored with her school work.
    This you may find is the biggest challenge. 
    
    
    

    Thanks for the feedback. 
    
    I probably should have mentioned in the basenote that our older
    daughter, 8, is considerably ahead of her class academically, but is
    socially right where she belongs. We had really good luck with her
    kindergarten and first grade teachers, who made special efforts to keep
    her challenged. Her second grade teacher just doesn't seem to get it.
    She marvels at our daughter's vocabulary and math skills, but marvel is
    about all she does. You would think that a kid constantly getting 100
    on all the tests and then looking bored would provide a clue, but
    apparently not. 
    
    It is this second grade experience that has made feel quite strongly
    that our younger daughter should be presented with a challenge right
    from the start. She's certainly up to it. She also has a personality
    type that lends itself to what some might consider "troublemaking" when
    she's bored. Anything to make life more interesting, I guess. Makes
    sense to me.
    
    Thanks again for the responses.
    
    John H-C

    My daughter missed the "cutoff" date for first grade by 3 days, so she
    went to first grade at age 6 and turned 7 on October 3.  She was
    reading 5th grade books and "got" multiplication when she started
    school last fall.
    
    First grade was the perfect place for her this year.  Socially, she's a
    first grader.  Fortunately, the teacher did a great job of challenging
    her intellectually (providing appropriate books, not giving extra
    "papers"), and the math program "Math Their Way" is adaptable to each
    kid's level.
    
    My sister and niece, both young for their grades, both had substantial
    troubles on the social side - kids were developing a year ahead of them
    and they weren't into the same things.  My sister (now a Kindergarten
    teacher) regrets being the youngest and wishes she'd been in the next
    grade.  My niece is always left out - now it's boys and puberty that
    she's not into and the other girls are.  Both were very intelligent and
    did/do great on the academics.
    
    I would urge you to look at the children your daughter plays with and
    plays like - is she more comfortable with the kids that are going into
    first grade or the kids going into second grade?  This will give you
    another clue as to where she belongs. 

	There are as many different viewpoints on this issue as you want to find.
The items you, as a parent, need to consider are:

	1. What is your daughter's social situation? 
		A child who is ahead academically is not necessarily able to
		deal with the level of social skills she might need at the
		higher grade level.

	2. Many children who read or do math at higher levels than their
	   peers do so simply because they have had better home care in
	   these areas. Most are academically with their age group by
	   the 3rd grade. Some are clearly able to do advanced work in some
	   subject matter but not in others. Also there is nothing to prevent
	   parents from working with teachers to provide more challenging
	   work for students outside the classroom. The excuse you'll get
	   about inside the classroom is likely to be around the number of
	   kids vs individual lessons. 


	3. You know your child best. This is both good and bad. You need to
	   determine if this is for your ego or the best interest of your child.
	   Most of us make all of our decisions in the best interest of our
	   children but it is something we all need to examine periodically.


	4. Kindergarteners still have very strong ties to parents. The leap 
	   to a higher grade can sometimes be difficult in terms of parental
	   seperation. In other cases it's no big deal but it is a 
	   consideration.

	5. If you are leaning toward attempting the skip then you also need to
	   objectively discover how your child really feels about it.

    This is an issue that hunts us ever since our son was born.  However,
    I have come to a conclusion that social readiness is much more
    important than the academical achievement.
    
    A lot of academical ability will come naturally with the age and 
    maturity.  Like Mike said in .6, most kids will catch up at grade
    3. 
    
    I came from a country that focuses on academical achievement since
    a child was born.  Almost all the kids can read and do math before
    entering kindergarten.  Multiplication and Division were introduced
    at grade 1.  Here in the U.S., if a 7 year old knows multiplication
    is considered advanced but at where I came from, this is norm.  
    Why?  It is not because the kids in the U.S. are less bright, it
    is because they are not taught as much.  But all these kids (U.S. and
    non-U.S.) will be equal when they graduate the college.  The U.S.
    kid will probably do much better socially and turn out to be a much
    more well-rounded person.
    
    I just want to emphasize the importance of social situation.  Your
    daughter is still very young.  She and you will have to work hard for 
    the next 15 years to maintain her academic status.
    
    Wendy    

    I've got sort of a different twist on this situation, and would
    appreciate some feedback.
    
    My neice age 8 next week, and her brother who will be 6 on Sept 3 are
    staying with my inlaws (their grandparents) until the end of the next
    school year.  Because my nephew's birthday is Sept 3, he missed
    entering public kindegarten last September by three days.  My brother
    inlaw enrolled him into a private kindegarten and he really did well.
    This boy is actually picking up children's books and really reading. 
    It has helped him to become mature, and control his temper.  Which was
    a real problem when he visited last summer.
    
    My inlaws are really pushing in a big way to have him enter first grade
    in september, but technical due to his birth date he should be entering
    kindegarten.  Maybe he is mature, but so is AJ.  We enrolled AJ into
    kindegarten last year, because he too missed the town cutoff by two
    days. (cutoff date Jan 1, AJ's birthday Jan 2).
    
    Part of what I think I'm seeing is that there is AJ, and his other
    cousin who are only weeks apart in age they were 6 last January and
    March respectively, and will be entering first
    grade this fall, then there's Jason who won't be 6 until September but
    my inlaws haven't come right out to say it, but it's almost like they
    feel they have to keep him up with his cousins who are several months
    older.  Then there's something that knaws at me like nails on a
    chalkboard.  AJ had to wait an entire year for school because of
    missing the cutoff date by a couple days, why shouldn't Jason wait?
    AJ tested as above average intelligence, but still needed a classroom
    aid due to a short term memory problem, and extra but NOT hyper
    activity.  He will enter first grade this year without a classroom aid,
    and for that matter he really didn't need the aid at all the last half
    of the year, maybe longer.
    
    I guess I need some Objective feed back from you folks on what I am
    feeling in this situation.  I can always count on honest opinions here.
    
    Lyn

    This issue is dear to me. When I started school in India (1965) there
    were no strict rules on the age of kids entering 1st grade. I started
    preschool at 2 and 1st grade at 5. I was always 2 years younger than
    the average age of the class. I did very well at school but the demands
    on my with respect to doing well or simply keeping up with the kids in
    my class were great. I was mature, scored high, etc. All's well so far
    but ALL I REMEMBER DOING IN MY CHILDHOOD IS GO TO SCHOOL AND STUDY AT
    HOME the rest of the time. I did NOT ENJOY LIFE! I did not have time to
    play with kids my own age. I did play but not as much as other kids. I
    did not realize that when I was young but now looking back at my
    childhood I wasted those years just studying. 
    
    I am proud that I graduated with a B.S. at age 19 and completed my 1st
    M.S. program at age 21. THEN I started enjoying life. I should have
    been doing that long before.
    
    So, the skiiny of it is that I would not want to push a child to skip a
    grade or similar.  The earlier years may be a breeze but the later
    years do demand hard work.
    
    Shaila

    ....to add if the issue is that a child missed a grade by 3 days then
    it is different. NEVER MIND!

    
    since you asked ... it *does* sound like you've got some personal
    issues with this.
    
    I'm not up to this age yet, but I think there are objective tests that
    indicate a child's readiness for school.  If you can get agreement to
    use this test, and go with whatever outcome is recommended, it could
    work for all concerned. 
    
    JAmd

I find the question in your title to be interesting:  "Is it fair to skip,
if grammie is pushing?"  

First, I'll consider the "if grammie is pushing" part to be irrelevant.
That is, the decision for Jason to skip or not to skip should not be
based upon how pushy or unpushy grammie is.

But are you asking:
   "Would it be fair to Jason for him to skip public kindergarten?  "

or are you asking:
   "Would it be fair to AJ for Jason to skip public kindergarten?"

Your note sounds like you feel there's some injustice being done to AJ
if Jason skips public kindergarten.  And here I'm stuck.  The decision
for when AJ starts public school and at which grade level is/should be
completely separate from the decision for when Jason starts public school
and at which grade level.  

- Deb

    As I mentioned in my earlier reply my son missed by 2.5 hours, he was
    born at 2:30 AM and the cut-off was 12:00 AM.  If your nephew is going
    into public school it is irrelevant who is doing the pushing, the
    cut-off is exactly that.  
    
    Private schools have a different interpretation of the cut-offs and 
    will allow a child to enter earlier than a public school in the same
    district.
    
    Regardless of what happens with your nephew, have confidence your son 
    is in an environment with an age appropriate peer group.  My son is
    now going into Jr. High and his peer group varies in age from those
    children who were held back in pre-first to those with birthday's close
    to his.  
    
    I do know the most compelling arguement the school made was that boys
    tend to be less mature than the girls.  Therefore, a "young" boy in a
    class of "older" girls can be viewed as a disipline problem simply
    for exhibiting age appropriate behavior.  In other words, your child
    will be judged against the other students.  A "young" boy can have
    the academic ability for advanced placement but lack the equally
    important social skills of his peers.
    
    Tracy
                                         
    
    
                                                        
    

Lynn,
	I've expressed my opinions about the arbitrary nature of cutoffs before.
Some kids are ready and some aren't. At this age social factors should take the
larger role in this type of decision. Academics will come over the next couple of
years anyway. I would, personally, choose to err on the younger side rather than
the older. 

	There may be a change in cutoffs coming but I doubt it will affect the
1993/94 school year. The Education Reform Act puts the decisions for things like
age cutoff, length of day, length of year, etc. in the hands of the state board
of education (to set minimums). I expect the issue of age cutoff to be addressed
pretty quickly as it got much discussion in hearings in the legislature. 

Mike

    My daughter missed the cut-off in our town (Boxborough, MA) by 3 weeks. 
    I had her on the list for school choice in Acton, where the cut off is
    Dec. 31; she would have been 4.9 when she started -- i.e. one of the
    youngest.  I too was getting pressure from my mother and sister to start
    her last year, but I decided that I'd rather have her be one of the
    oldest in her own school rather than the youngest in a strange school,
    one where she'd only be for the one year.  It was tempting,
    financially, because day care is so expensive.  But I watched my
    nephew, whose birthday is also end of October, struggle in kindergarten
    and even into first grade, because he just wasn't ready, but he was
    sent because all of his pre-school friends were going, etc.  Now, in 2nd
    grade, he's doing just fine, but it took him till the end of his 1st
    grade year to learn to read.
    
    I'm so glad I waited -- Shaina needed the year to grow emotionally. 
    I'd made the prediction that she'd blossom in January, and she didn't
    prove me wrong!  She's now reading a little and is a lot more
    comfortable with herself and others.
    
    I admit, missing the cut by 3 weeks isn't exactly the same as missing
    it by 3 days or even 2 hours (can't believe that!)  But I feel that
    sometimes it's better to be the oldest instead of the youngest (and I
    started school at 4.5 and still, to this day, sometimes wish that my mother 
    had waited another year).  And don't worry about fair or unfair -- just
    be sure that YOU are comfortable with your decision -- the kids won't
    mind.
    
    Sandy