Conference moira::parenting

        It's basically up to the employer.
    
        Maternity leaves with pay are a corporate benefit that
        varies company to company.
    
       
        
        

    
    
    I might have been hearing things, but I thought some
    bill was going through congress to make companies give
    their employees paid materinity leave.  

In terms of disability, I believe Federal law does apply here.

Way back in my previous insurance career (7 or 8 years ago), we spent 
several months amending all our large group policies because Federal 
law required that maternity be treated as any other disability for 
insurance purposes.  The interpretation at that time was that, as 
long as the pregnancy/delivery was considered disabling,
the insurance company had to treat it the same as any other disability.
I believe this law applied to companies of 25 employees or more.

Note, though, that this was disability, not maternity leave (where one 
could take time away after having recovered from the delivery.)

--Jennifer

    I'm new to notes so bear with me if this comes accross jarbled.  Most
    sites have the maternity leave law posted.  If a woman has been working
    at a company full time for 6 months she is eligible.  My understanding
    is: if she returns to work within 8 weeks than she is still entitled
    to the job she left.  
    
    Like I said - I have seen this posted on the bullentin boards at the 
    entrances of most sites.  
    
    Tracy 

       Although the base note specifically asks about U.S. law, I 
       thought I'd post the U.K. position for reference.

       Over here, a woman has a right to return to work up to the last
       day of the 29th week after the date of confinement. In additional,
       she is entitled to a payment of 9/10ths of her average weekly
       earnings for a period of 6 weeks, followed by 12 weeks payment
       of "Statutory Maternity Pay". That's the legal position, DEC UK's
       scheme is actually better than that.

       Ian.

   Re: .5
  >     DEC UK's
  >     scheme is actually better than that.
    
    ...but not much.  However, as of July last year, DEC UK has a policy of
    giving a Maternity Returners Allowance. If you return to work after
    having your baby they will give you an extra months salary for the
    first year.  This is not a lump sum but is divided into 12 pieces that
    you get with your salary every month. If you leave work before the year
    is up, you do not get the rest of the money but you do get to keep the 
    MRA you have had up to the time you leave.
    
    LaDonna (who's been back to work since the end of February)

    
    29 weeks??!!!  AM I envious or what?  What is "Statutory Maternity Pay"?
    
    If she returns after the full 29 weeks, is the same position
    guaranteed... or a similiar position?
    
    Jeez - even 18 weeks would be heaven!
    
    
    Jamd

    RE, a few notes back:
    Yes, 8 weeks is the number that was told to my wife (to insure that she
    would have the same job).
    
    Quite a few phone calls proved that the employer was correct in that he
    did not have to pay, insurance (disability) didn't have to pay, or the
    Govt (unemployement, etc..) didn't have to pay wages.
    
    Some small companies here in Mass, USA will actually do the
    mother-to-be a favor by laying her off, such that she can collect
    unemployement from the state, and then re-hiring her after she
    can return to work.
    
    I've also heard some horror stories about women who are waitress'
    most need to leave before their 9 month, and do so voluntarily.
    The Restaurant has to hire some-one to do the work... and because
    the women usually takes more than 8 weeks - the restaurant doesn't
    have to re-hire you...  Moreover you left voluntarily - so there 
    goes your unemployement!   
    
    /p

    Re: .7
    
    Statutory Maternity Pay is money paid to you by the government while 
    on maternity leave. There are certain conditions you must meet to
    qualify for this and there is a higher rate and a lower rate. 
    
    If you have 12 months service or more with Digital by the 15th week
    prior to the expected week of confinement (is this complicated or
    what?), then you will get 6 weeks full pay which includes 6 weeks SMP
    at the higher rate plus 18 weeks at the lower rate SMP.  I think the 
    higher rate when I was on leave was 47.50 Pounds per week. It is evaluated 
    once a year. (There is a complicated way of figuring this out and deals 
    with all kinds of exceptions but what else are governments for?)
    
    After returning from maternity leave no later than the 29th week after
    the birth or after approved extensions, the employee is entitled to 
    return to her old job or an *equivalent* job under terms and conditions 
    no less favourable than those which would have applied if she had not
    been absent.
    
    This is from the UK policy manual and most of it is word for word what
    is required of Digital by UK law.  The small differences are that Digital
    will pay full salary rather than the 9/10ths required by law and in the
    number of weeks SMP you get. The main additional benefit that is not
    required by law is the Maternity Returner's Allowance.  I think they
    have also reduced the required length of service from the 2 years the
    law says to 12 months. All this was revised last July.  
    
    The July revisions also include a section on Paternity Leave. Male 
    employees with at least 1 years service at the date of the commencement 
    of the leave are entitled to up to 5 days paid leave at management 
    discretion. Maybe not the greatest, but it is a start. There is also
    provision for Adoptive leave which is a maximum of 2 months paid leave
    at the discretion of the Company and only if the child is under 5 yrs.
    
    LaDonna
                                 
    

The Digital benefits book does not clearly spell out how much maternity leave 
is granted.  I got the impression that the norm is 2 weeks before due date 
and 6 weeks after delivery for normal deliveries.  Does anyone know from 
experience what is allowed for a planned c-section.

			Thanks
				Barbara 

    The nurse told me it was 2 weeks before and 8 weeks after for a
    C-section.
    
    

    If your c-section is planned you do not get the two weeks before.  You
    are supposed to work up until the day before.  There are ways around
    that of course!!!
    
    Joyce
    

    I recently heard (but have not verified since I'm not pregnant) that
    DEC changed the maternity leave policy to be 8 weeks after, regardless
    of the type of delivery.  Somehow I doubt this, but it's what I heard. 
    Has anyone else heard this?
    
    Mary
    

    Here is what I was told:
    
    2 weeks before due date, 6 weeks after baby is born for both
    regular deliveries and planned C-sections.
    
    Unplanned C-sections receive the normal 2 weeks before, and then
    8 weeks after.
    
    -Sheila

    I just returned from maternity leave and what I got was -
    
    2 weeks before the due date
    6 weeks after the birth date
    
    I missed out on the 2 weeks before since Neel was born 23 days early
    and my daughter was born 10 days early.
    
    Wish the 8 weeks after for a vaginal delivery was true :-(

    I am positive it is 8 weeks after and 0 before for a PLANNED
    c-section, not 2 weeks before 6 after.  The reason is... you are having
    surgery and you need 8 weeks to recover (in my opinion you need a
    hell of a lot more than 8 weeks to recover from surgery).  Keep in mind
    that Digital does not have a "maternity leave" it is short term 
    disability, which is probably why it is 8 weeks.  I've had two planned 
    c-sections and this is what I was told.
    
    Joyce

    I found something in the on-line VTX "orange book" when I went
    searching.  My supervisor had sent me mail stating that I would get
    a total of 6 weeks -- 2 before and 4 after for a vaginal delivery.  I
    was pretty certain this was wrong, but hadn't seen it in writing
    anywhere.  
    
    I searched through VTX and found a statement along the lines that
    a typical maternity-related STD is 2 weeks before and 6 weeks after
    for a vaginal delivery; 2 weeks before and 8 weeks after for a
    C-section.  (I didn't pay attention to whether it mentioned a planned
    or unplanned C-section).
    
    Mostly, it's up to your doctor.  If they feel there's a medical reason
    for you to be out of work, they can send you home.  I think they need
    to justify this with CMI -- the folks who monitor STDs for Digital.

If you need more time to recover after a C-section, your doctor has to fill
out some forms for Digital stating the reason.  When I had my twins, I had 
Jessica naturally, but had Brad by section, so I ended up with 10 weeks 
maternity leave as there was a problem with my healing.  All my doctor needed
to do was contact the appropriate people at Digital and send in more forms
for me to get the additional 2 weeks.  So if you really end up needing more
time to recover, you will be able to get it.

Cathy

    Even with a vaginal birth you can get extensions.

    I had a difficult time with severe bleeding (had to go back on pitocin
    for 24 hours one week *after* the birth to contract my uterus) and as a
    result had severe anemia and weakness.

    My midwife looked at the second induction as the time for beginning
    recuperation and started the 6 weeks from there allowing me an extra
    week of time at home. (Of course it was no picnic, I was very weak, and
    she did have to fill out the proper forms to be submitted).

    			Wendy

I am scheduled to have a c-section the week of 8/10 (probably 8/14).  Before my
doctor got involved, I was supposed to work up until the day of surgery.  After
several phone calls, I found that was the official policy now for scheduled
surgery.  My due date was August 25 which means if I was not having a section I
could have gone out on 8/11.

Because this is a repeat c-section for me and I had several complications with 
my first labor and delivery (toxemia, etc.), my doctor was able to get me two
weeks before.  She had to speak with the people at CMI and basically convince
them that this was medically necessary in her opinion.  I guess this took quite
a bit of convincing on her part.  

Anyway, this should clear this up for anyone who is wondering.  Official policy
is NO days before and 8 weeks after.  Doesn't seem too fair to have to work up
until the day before.  I realize most doctors schedule two weeks before actual
delivery day, but mine was going to wait a few more days so even that didn't
come out even.

By the way, my doctor had called CMI way back in December to give my info and
they had no record of the phone call so better stay on top of them too.  This
new way of doing things is supposed to be much easier, but I have found it
necessary to make many, many phone calls (PSA, John Hancock and CMI).  I've felt
like I've really had to keep on top of it all myself.  Of course this could be
because I'm at a remote site with no PSA on site here (Delaware).

    Having a PSA on site does not always help a lot -- keep on top of
    it yourself.
    
    --bonnie

    
    I just found out that effective September 28 the short term disabilty
    policy is changing.  All wage classes will get 100% of there pay
    instead of Wage class 2 people getting only 80%.
    
    Unfortunately my leave starts September 4 so I'm not elligable.  Your
    leave has to start after September 28 in order to get the 100%.
    
    Kirsten
    

I talked with my PSA yesterday about my maternity leave. 
She said that the actual STD didn't start until after the birth, the two
weeks before the due date weren't part of it.  That is, everyone would get 6 
weeks STD (for a normal delivery) I don't know how they classify the time 
before.

I don't know if this effects WC2 people or not.  I am WC4.

Jackie

    I was a WC2 when I had my daughter Alicia.  When I started my leave
    (two weeks before my due date) I had to use all my sick time and be out
    for 5 consecutive days before starting STD.  My STD (80%) pay started
    on the second week of my leave.  Alicia was two weeks late and
    delivered via C-section so my leave looked like this:
     
    Week 1, Full pay (Sick days taken)
    Week 2-4, STD (80% pay) (Baby born in week 4)
    Week 5-12, STD (80% pay) (8 wks)
    
    I delivered Alicia on a Tuesday and my return date was on Wednesday.
    
    With Jessica I was a WC4.  I started my leave two weeks before my due
    date and had her on my due date.  I received full pay for the entire
    two weeks before and 6 weeks after (Jessica was delivered VBAC). I was
    told that STD started after five working days off.  She was born on a 
    Friday and I was told by the new CMI company that the six weeks after 
    starts on the day she was born so I was to return on a Friday. (I thought 
    that stunk).
              
    Angie
    

    One more thing to keep in mind...
    
    When I went out, I took the 2 weeks before my due date, but actually
    only got 1 week because the baby came 1 week earlier.
    
    I ended up having a c-section and called CMI a few weeks after I 
    delivered to make sure they had the same dates I had when my STD
    ended.  As it turned out, they had my last day of work ad my delivery
    date and had me returning 9 days earlier.  I straightened that out
    real fast....so moral of the story...call CMI after you've been out
    to ensure they have proper dates.
    
    Kristen

Does anyone know whether or not you accumulate vacation hours while out
on maternity leave (disability)?  Or do you cease to accumulate more hours
until you return from disability?

I have accumulated close to the maximum number of allowed vacation hours,
and figure that I will quickly be over the limit if I continue to accrue
while I'm out on disability.

Of course I'm planning on taking lots of vacation time AFTER my disability
is up (especially in light of the new rules on accumulating vacation time),
but that won't help me during the disability period.

Thanks in advance!

Jayne

    Jayne,
    I accrued vacation during maternity leave, and I think short term
    disability is the same. However, we might be operating under different
    rules in Canada.
    
    Monica
    

	Jayne,

	You acrue time during STD (maternity leave), but not during
	unpaid parental leave.

	You also acrue vacation time while you're on vacation!

	Karen

Thanks for all the replies.

It looks like I"ll have to take some additional time off BEFORE I go out
on STD.

Jayne

    Just found this notes file and reading these stories about time off
    work...well, here in Finland we have really long maternity leaves.
    I'll be on leave from 25 March 93 until 7 February 94. The government 
    pays 66% of my current salary for this time. This will all change when
    we join the EC...they are cutting it down already. 
    
    At least there will be enough time to recover and to get to know the
    Baby before letting strangers take care of him/her.
    
    Christa

    Can anyone give me some information about parental bonding leaves?
    
    I was told that after your 6 week STD leave you can be out (without pay
    mind you) for up to 3 months but... you would not be guarrenteed your
    position after 30 days.  
    
    What exactely is the policy?  
    
    Thanks in advance,
    cj

                               Leave of Absence


SCOPE:  U.S.

Policy

A leave of absence is defined as a period of time for which the
employee has received permission to be absent from work.  Leaves
are considered voluntary time off without pay and are granted for
a specific period of time.

Practice

Types of Leaves

Normally a leave of absence is only granted for one or more of
the following reasons:

    o  Medical -  A leave provided to employees who have medical
       conditions which do not result in disability as defined in
       any legally mandated benefit program (i.e. Worker's
       Compensation), or the Company's disability programs (i.e.
       under Digital's Accident and Sickness Plan, or long term
       disability plan).  As a general matter, a medical leave of
       absence requires the review and approval of the
       organization's health services department.

       Note:  In certain situations employees who are not
       entitled   to benefits under a Company disability program
       should  not be placed on a Leave of Absence.  For example,
       an employee who has exhausted benefits under the Company's
       short term or long term disability benefits  plans and who
       has not recovered sufficiently to   return to work should
      be managed in accordance with Personnel Policy 4.09,
      Disability, Absence and Return to Work.


    o  Hardship - A leave provided to employees to enable them to
       deal with personal emergencies which necessitates their
       immediate attention and extended absence from work.


                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


    o  Personal - A leave provided to employees to enable them to
       respond to short-term personal issues.

    o  Educational - A leave provided to enable an employee to
       complete a degree or other significant planned educational
       program.

    o  Military - A leave provided for employees who are
       activated from a reserve or National Guard Unit, are
       drafted, or who join the armed forces of the United States
       on a full-time active basis (does not include employees in
       Military Reserve Training, See Personnel Policy 4.17,
       Military Reserve Training).  Military leaves are available
       to any regular employee who is activated, enlists or is
       drafted into active full-time military service.


*** o  Parental - A leave provided to birth and adoptive parents
       for the purpose of bonding with new children.  Parental
       leave must be taken within 6 months of the birth or
       adoption of the child.  Parental leave is available to any
       regular employee who meets the requirements of this
       paragraph.

Eligibility

Unless required by law, most leaves of absence (i.e. Medical,
Hardship, Educational and Personal Leaves) are granted only to
regular R20-R40 employees.  However, regular employees who work
fewer than 20 hours a week are eligible for Military and Parental
Leaves.  Additionally, employees must have two years of regular
continuous service with the Company in order to be eligible for
an Educational or Personal Leave of Absence.  There are no prior
service requirements for Medical, Hardship, Military or Parental
Leaves of Absence.

With the exception of Military and Parental leaves, the decision
to grant or deny a leave of absence is within the discretion and
judgment of an employee's manager/supervisor.  Military and
Parental leaves are granted upon request to eligible employees.

                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


In determining whether other leaves of absence are appropriate
the manager/supervisor should consider whether the leave is in
the best interest of the Company and the employee, the
organization's staffing requirements, and the employee's
long-term potential with the Company.  Similarly apart from
Military and Parental leaves, employees must be in good standing
with the Company to be eligible for a leave.

Employees who are in Corrective Action and Discipline under
Personnel Policy 6.21, or whose last performance rating was less
than satisfactory are normally ineligible for anything other than
Military or Parental leaves of absence.

Duration

A leave of absence is granted for the specific periods of time
listed below unless longer periods are mandated by applicable law.

     Type Of Leave                        Specific Time Period

     Medical                              One year or less
     Hardship                             One year or less
     Military                             Four years or less
     Educational                          One year or less
***  Parental                             Eight weeks or less
     Personal                             Thirteen weeks or less

Requests for extensions of leaves must be submitted in advance
and approved in writing.

Violations of a Leave of Absence

If an employee violates the terms of the leave, he/she is subject
to immediate termination and will be treated as a Company
discharge under Personnel Policy 6.01.  Examples of violations of
a leave of absence include but are not limited to:  working
without the prior approval of the supervisor/manager while on
leave, failure to return to work when required to do so by the
terms of the leave or a request from the Company, engaging in
activity incompatible with reasons given for the leave, behavior

                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


contrary to Company policy or practice while on a leave, etc.
(See Personnel Policy 6.06, Conflicts of Interest).


Approval

A Request for Leave of Absence form must be completed for all
leaves of absence of one full week or more.  Information included
must describe the length, purpose and other details of the leave.
The employee's supervisor, cost center manager, and personnel
department must approve all requests for a leave of absence.
Medical leaves require the additional approval of the Medical
Department.  An employee must give his/her manager as much
advance notice as possible of his/her intention to take a
Parental Leave of Absence.  However, four (4) weeks advance
notice is considered appropriate for a Parental Leave of Absence.
Personal, Educational leaves and any exceptions to this policy
must also be approved by the employee's cost center manager's
manager and the group personnel manager.

Return from a Leave of Absence

The following criteria must be used to determine the status of
employees returning from a leave of absence unless otherwise
required by law.

Medical and Hardship - The employee will be placed in the same
position if returning from the leave in eight weeks or less.  If
they return from the leave in more than eight weeks the manager
makes a reasonable effort to place the employee in the same
position.  If this is not practical the manager places the
employee in a similar position with like status or in a position
as close to the previous position as possible.

Military and Educational - The manager makes a reasonable effort
to place the employee in the same position.  If this is not
practical the manager places the employee in a similar position
with like status or in a position as close to the previous
position as possible.

*** Parental - An employee returning from a Parental Leave of Absence

                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


of four (4) weeks or less would be placed in the same position
that he/she held prior to the leave.  An employee returning from
a Parental Leave of Absence in excess of four (4) weeks would be
offered a similar position and not guaranteed the same position
he/she held prior to commencing the leave.  Any request for an
additional leave of absence beyond the eight weeks maximum for a
Parental Leave of Absence would be treated as a request for a
Personal Leave of Absence unless state laws require a longer
period for such leave.

The decision to grant this Personal Leave of Absence (i.e. after
Parental Leave) is within the discretion and judgment of the
employee's manager/supervisor as defined previously in the
eligibility section.  These Personal Leaves may be granted for
thirteen weeks or less.  If the employee returns from the
Personal Leave within four weeks or less, the manager must make a
reasonable effort to place the employee in a position similar to
the job held at the beginning of the Parental Leave.  However,
the employee is not guaranteed the same position he/she held
prior to commencing that leave.  If the employee remains on the
Personal Leave for more than four weeks, the manager should make
a reasonable effort to place the employee within the Company,
however a position is not guaranteed.

Personal - Employees returning from a personal leave of absence
of four weeks or less must be placed in the same position they
left.  If the employee returns from a personal leave of more than
four weeks, but less than thirteen weeks, the manager must make a
reasonable effort to place the employee in the same position
he/she left.  If this is not practical, the manager must place
the employee in a similar position with like status, or a
position as close to the previous position held as possible.  If
the employee returns from a personal leave of thirteen weeks or
longer, the manager must make a reasonable effort to place the
returning employee in a position within the Company, however, a
position is not guaranteed upon return.  (See extensions of
Parental Leaves above.)


                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


Return from Leave Without a Position

An employee returning from a leave without a guaranteed position
(i.e. from a Personal Leave of thirteen weeks or longer) may not
be returned to an active/paid status unless and until a regular
assignment is identified.  In such cases, the manager may elect
to extend the leave for a reasonable period of time, not to
exceed thirty days, to allow the employee and manager time to
identify a position.  If no position is found within this period,
the employee should be terminated as a voluntary resignation.

Terminations from a Leave of Absence

  When an employee notifies the Company that he/she will not return
  from a leave of absence the termination date is the notification
| date.  Similarly, an employee on a Leave of Absence may be
| terminated under a Transition/Workforce Reduction or Plant
| Closing Program approved by the Corporate Cross Organization
| Transition Committee.

Physical Examination

An employee may be required to take and pass a physical examination
by a doctor before returning to work from a leave of absence.

Benefits

| Medical, Dental, Life and Disability Benefits - Employees on
| leaves of absence except for military leaves of absence may continue
| dependent medical, dependent dental, optional life by paying
| in advance the employee paid portion of the cost of coverage.
| Should an employee become disabled while on any type of leave of absence,
| he/she would remain on leave of absence status for the duration of the
| approved leave and would not be eligible for disability income protection.
| If the employee remains disabled at the end of the leave of absence, he/she
| would become eligible for income protection benefits at that time under the
| terms of the Disability Plan.

Pension Plan - If the employee returns to work, the employee's
status under the pension plan continues during a leave of absence

                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


for purposes of determining eligibility for membership, vesting
and early retirement.

Vacation - An employee may receive compensation for earned
vacation hours at the beginning of the leave, provided the
vacation hours do not exceed the length of the leave, or vacation
hours may be taken upon returning to active employment.  Vacation
days do not accumulate during personal, medical, hardship,
educational or parental leaves of absence.  During military
leaves, vacation days continue to accumulate up to a maximum of
two years vacation accrual.  However, the employee must return to
active employment to become eligible for any vacation accrued
while on military leave.

Sick Days - Wage class 2 employees continue to accumulate sick
days while on military leave of absence.  Employees on medical,
educational, hardship, personal or parental leaves of absence do
not accumulate sick days while on leave.

Stock Purchase Plan - If an employee is a member of the plan on
separation date, all accumulated deductions up to the date of
separation may remain in his or her account and be used toward
the purchase of shares at the end of the current period.  Any
balance remaining in the employee's account will be carried over
into the next payment period.  Whenever the employee returns to
active employment, deductions will automatically resume with his
or her first payroll check.  The employee may cancel from the
plan upon commencement of leave and rejoin at the next entry date
after return to active employment.

If an employee is not currently enrolled in the stock purchase
plan, leave time is credited toward the six month eligibility
period.

Qualified and Restricted Stock Plans - If the employee is a
participant in either the Qualified or Restricted Stock Plan,
restrictions on these options continue to lapse while the
employee is on a leave of absence.


                        Digital Equipment Corporation

                               Leave of Absence


Length of Service - Time on leave is credited toward the
employee's length of service and is credited when he or she
returns to work.

Salary Increases

An employee on a leave of absence is not eligible for a salary
increase.  Absence as a result of leave of absence does not count
as time worked toward the next salary review except in the case
of a military leave of absence as follows:

Special Provisions for Military Leave

The normal duration for a military leave is up to four years, but
may be extended by a year at the request of the federal
government.  Returning veterans must contact Digital within
ninety days after separation.  Employees returning from full time
active duty assignment may require salary action to place them in
an appropriate position in the range of the job from which the
left.  Six month reservists and National Guardsmen must contact
Digital within thirty-one days after separation.

*** Special Provisions for Parental Leave

The Parental Leave of Absence called for in this policy is in
addition to any disability period (i.e. periods covered by
STD/salary continuation or long-term disability plans) resulting
from a biological birth.  For example, an employee could be
disabled as a result of biological birth for eight (8) or more
weeks under the Company's STD plan, and thereafter be eligible
for an additional eight (8) weeks of Parental leave.

Manager's Checklist

Before an employee commences a Leave of Absence, the employee's
manager must complete a manager's checklist.  This checklist will
assist managers in determining the status of cash advances,
credit cards, property passes, etc., while the employee is on
Leave of Absence.  This checklist is the cover sheet on the
Request for Leave of Absence form.

Hi,

	I recently went into pre-term labor and delivered a son at 24
	weeks.  Since I had a C-section I was entitled to 8 weeks of maternity
	leave immediately following the surgery.  I would have gone absolutely
	nuts if I had to be home alone during those scary early weeks of his
	life, so I chose to return to work after 1 week of leave.  
	Unfortunately, in order for me to come back to work I was forced to
	forfeit the 7 remaining weeks of my leave, postponement was out of
	the question.

	Our son may be allowed to come home in a few weeks :), but I'm still
	a bit miffed that I have to take all of my vacation and possibly
	parental leave to enable me to spend some time with him.  I'd be
	interested to hear your opinions about whether DEC should have a
	policy for Maternity leave postponement in special situations.  I'd
	also be interested if anybody has any suggestions of how to handle 
	this case?

Thanks,
Nancy

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes to
remain anonymous at this time.  For this string, her pseudonym will be
"Worried Mom".  

     Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

*******************************************************************

I have a problem, and I need the advice of anyone who may have had a 
similar experience.  I am currently 18 weeks pregnant and am suffering
from preterm labor.  This is my second pregnancy--during my first I 
also had preterm labor which started at about 28 weeks.  My question
is about STD leave....I am having a hard time getting a solid answer
from my personnel contact.

My doctor is ready to put me out on disability now.  I am still so far
from my due date that I don't know if I will be guaranteed a job when
I return to work.  I know there is a 26 wk. limit around whether or not
they _have_ to find you a job.  If I got out now, does this mean that 
I will have to come back when the baby is only 2 wks. old??  This seems
insane to me.....I was really hoping to take the additional 8 weeks of
parental leave after the 6 weeks of STD after the birth.  But yesterday
personnel told me that they count the parental leave in the TOTAL 
weeks you are away (putting me way over the 26 wk. limit).  Is this 
right?  I read the entire policy, and as I understood it, the parental
leave is "in addition" to any STD.  Am I falling in some "loop hole"
because I will be out so long???

My (high risk) doctor is very conservative, which I am thankful for.
I haven't dialated yet, but I'm experiencing _way_ too many contractions
for this early.  I know how to take care of myself, so part of me feels
like I should "tough" it out for a while longer.  My family needs me to
keep my job.  All of our benefits are thru DEC.  On the other hand, 
I don't want to risk the health of the baby because of DEC's policies.

Has anyone else had a long STD?  What did you do?  Is personnel giving 
me wrong info?  Is there another place to get these answers?

Thanks,

Worried Mom

re: <<< Note 83.33 by NYUK::DIFONZO >>>

   >     Since I had a C-section I was entitled to 8 weeks of maternity
   >	leave immediately following the surgery.  I would have gone absolutely

Hi Nancy.  While I feel badly that you are losing your time off, I think that
you have to keep in mind that Digital doesn't have maternity leave per se.  
You would have been out on short-term disability instead.  This is not intended
to allow you to spend time with your son, it's intended as the time you need
to recover from your surgery.  This just puts a different slant on things I
think.  By coming back after only one week, you're basically saying that you
have recovered and that you don't need disability pay any more.  Parental 
leave (which is unfortunately unpaid) is what allows you to spend time with 
your child.

                                                     Tracy

    Hi Nancy,
    
    Unfortunately, maternity leave is to let the mother heal and recuperate
    from the delivery, and is a medical leave.  It is not intended to allow
    the mother to spend time with the baby.  I know that when I delivered
    my kids at 28 weeks and had 1 natural and 1 by C-section, I just got
    the 8 weeks for the section. I was able to get an extra 2 weeks because
    I hadn't healed completely, but that was for a medical reason. I
    distinctly remember the STD nurse giving me grief about taking those
    extra 2 weeks and telling me maternity leave wasn't so I could spend
    more time with at home with my baby to which I snapped that I didn't
    even _have_ my babies home.
    
    In general, I have found that sometimes you can work things out with
    your manager, but that is also subject to change. I had an agreement
    with my manager that I would take my maternity leave when my kids were
    born and would follow that with my 6 weeks vacation and 6 weeks
    parental leave.  But things got all messed up when I delivered so
    early. And since I didn't have any babies home, I worked as much as I
    could from home.  But my boss quit the day after I returned, and since
    my son didn't come home for another 3 1/2 months, I asked my new boss
    if I could take my time then, but I got refused and was only allowed to
    take 3 weeks of my 6 weeks accrued vacation time (and I've still got 6
    weeks on the books because I've never been allowed to take it all
    together).  And the day I went to pick up Brad and start those 3 weeks
    vacation, my boss asked me to work at home and gave me some specific
    assignments.  I still haven't quite forgiven him for going back on
    agreements I had in place, especially since all my work was taken care
    of.
    
    I'm not sure what you can do other than try to work something out with
    your manager.  But I've found people to be less understanding than I
    could imagine even when they themselves have had to deal with sick
    children.
    
    Cathy

    I find the previous note INCREDIBLE. In France everyone gets
    4 months paid maternity leave as a MINIMUM. If you have a cessarian
    or premature baby it is more.

    Dear Anonymous,
    
    I just delivered my 3rd baby in August.  I started pre-term labor
    in April at 23 weeks!  My doctor put me out on STD.  The way
    Personnel explained it to me is...
    
    The first 13 weeks, you are guaranteed YOUR job, the second 13
    weeks, you are guaranteed A job in the company.  After the
    26 weeks are up, you're put on LTD and it's really up to your manager.
    
    You still get 6 weeks AFTER the baby is born, no matter what.
    It is still added in to your total STD time off, but you still
    get it.  The parental leave is in addition to the 6 weeks after.
    Parental leave is without pay and is a federal law.  
    
    Take whatever time you need.  The safety of your baby is the
    most important thing.  I would suggest keeping in contact
    with your manager throughout the whole time your are out.
    Maybe you can work it out with your manager to do some
    work from home or work part-time, or work part-time from
    home, instead of being on "std".  Try to work things out
    with your manager.
    
    I kept in contact with my manager, in fact I did some
    things from home.  Please contact me off-line if you
    would like more info or help.
    
    I am returning to work on Monday!   YIKES!
    
    Peggy
    
    

    
    I went on STD for orthopedic reasons 4 weeks before my second child was
    born, I then had the baby, was given the 6 weeks of maternity leave and
    then was put *back* on STD for (again) orthopedic reasons. I was called
    back to DEC (apparently the DEC Doctor coud not understand why I was on
    STD for more than 6 weeks following a "normal vaginal birth") and
    returned to work half time for a few weeks. I then came back full time
    and two weeks later took some vacation time for two weeks.
    
    	To this day, no one can figure out who got paid for what and for
    how much and for how long.
    
    	If you are out on a mixed bag for STD, keep careful track of your
    hours and dates and make very good friends with the disability people
    both on your insurance side and on the DEC side, you will, no doubt,
    get to know them very well.
    
    				Wendy
    
    	

Hi Again,

	Thanks for all of your inputs.

	Yes, I understand that Digital does not have 'Maternity Leave' per se,
	and that the time you are allowed off following the birth of a baby
	is for your recovery, not for the benefit of the baby.  However, if 
	that is the case then why is the number of weeks for STD fixed?  Isn't
	it true that people recover at different rates following delivery?  
	Other types of medical leave are not subjected to this fixed length of
	leave policy.  It remains up to the disgression of the individual's 
	physician.

	Based on my experience, I have to question that all women need 8
	full weeks to recover from a C-section.  I realize that my recovery
	was probably quicker since I did not have the added physical strain
	of taking care of a new baby, but 8 weeks seems a bit lengthy to me.
	Of course, that is presuming there are  no complications.  Am I wrong
	in my assumption?  Are there women who feel that they *NEED* a full
	6/8 weeks following an uncomplicated delivery?

	I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while Digital does not
	call it maternity leave, the way in which it is handled is similar
	to maternity leave and that is what it should be called.

Nancy

    With my first baby even though it was a normal delivery, I needed more
    than the 6 weeks to heal, my leave was extended by about a week because
    the midwife felt that I needed a little more time.

    	With my second, I recovered faster from the delivery but then my
    legs got in the way and that was what extended my leave. I felt like I
    could have returned to work sooner after the second though.

    	I think that they use 6/8 weeks as a guideline and you are allowed
    more if you need it.

    	Typically in medical circles, as a rule soft tissue needs 6 weeks
    to heal and surgical incursions *typically* heal in 8 weeks.

    	To come back after a C-section in one weeks time is in my
    estimation really pushing it. You may feel okay (you were probably
    still riding your adrenalin high) but be careful of "rebounding".

    	A c-section is considered major surgery (is there really such a
    thing as minor surgery?) and is not to be taken lightly. A full 8 weeks
    recovery is not that much time to heal.

    				Wendy

    With the last baby, 6 weeks really wasn't enough, although the Dr. went
    ahead and sent me back.  I had an uncomplicated delivery, but was
    bitten by a brown recluse spider two days later.  Want to talk about
    being flat on your back, unable to eat anything and unable to walk for
    two weeks, and another month on antibiotics impacting your recovery?
    
    The other Dr. (my family Dr, instead of the OB from hell) would have
    preferred another week or two, but since she wasnt "in charge" with the
    STD, it would have involved, significantly more paper work and a
    probable fight with the administrators of STD and our health services
    group.  
    
    As far as a c-setion, this is major abdominal surgery.  My mother had
    similar surgery this year and was told to stay off her feet and not
    lift anything heavier than her teacup for a month, and not to drive for
    6 weeks after the surgery. (Real realistic for a new mother i
    realize);-).
    
    Meg

	I think there are standard recovery times doctors use for
	specific procedures/illnesses.

	Before my father-in-law's recent surgery, his doctor told him
	he should not return to work for 3 weeks afterwards.  My father-in-law
	felt better a bit sooner, but I'm sure the 3 weeks is the standard
	recommendation for that procedure.
	
	I see no reason why doctors can't "standardize" on maternity
	disability in like fashion.

	Karen

But the doctors *have* standardized on maternity disability -
they say 6 weeks for vaginal delivery, and 8 weeks for
c-section.

I know a previous Digital employee who returned to work 
after 4 weeks on two children, and another who returned 
after 2 days.  I don't think they did a service to those
of us who recovered at a more normal rate.

From my personal experience, I was mentally, but not yet
physically ready to return 6 weeks after Elise was born,
but just the opposite with Sarah.  But back I went, both
times....

Pat

	Exactly, Pat.  What I was trying to say was that I didn't see
	why someone would have a problem with that standardization.

	Karen

    Just an odd situation here, and boy do I have sympathy for those in the
    premature birth situations.  I too feel that rules should have utmost
    flexibility.
    
    Perhpaps you could approach the situation with a "stress STD".  I have
    a girlfriend, a former DEC employee, who was granted an "automatic" 30
    day STD leave when she sought help for stress.  Parenting in itself is
    stressful, parenting a premature or ill child has to be the ultimate in
    parental stress.  She had to have a psycologist write a letter that her
    stress was making it impossible to work, but she did ultimately get two
    thirty day STD's, separated by a couple of weeks of work.
    
    Ask me about stress, and mommy guilt, I just spend last night trying to
    decided how to handle a 7 year old with a 102 fever, knowing that if I
    stayed home I don't get paid, knowing that the work just keeps piling
    up, and knowing that this child has to see a doctor ASAP!  So dad
    stayed home, since he gets by taking a vacation day, and when I get
    home tonite I will take my son to see the doctor.  Hopefully his asthma
    won't rear its ugly head before I get home!  Dad doesn't DO doctors
    offices!
    
    Lyn

    
    
    
    	 I am  going to check with personel but someone might know.
    
    
    	I have 8 week vacation time to take , can I also take 
    	my 12 week parental leave on top of my vacation?
    
         So I would be gone 8 maternity leave
    	                    8  weeks vacation 
    
    	               and 12 weeks parental leave?
    
    Thanks Donna
    
    

    Parental leave, maternity leave, and vacation are all separate, so you
    can use your vacation and parental leave in conjunction with your
    maternity leave, or just use parental leave or vacation. It's up to you
    and your manager. Something you want to watch out for that caught me is
    not to have your vacation time so close that you stop accruing when
    you're out on maternity leave.  My maternity leave came very
    unexpectedly, so I ended up maxing out on my vacation while I was still
    on maternity leave. I did have an agreement with my manager that I was
    going to take a combination of parental leave and vacation on top of
    the maternity leave, but that never quite materialized for a whole
    bunch of reasons.

    I'm not sure of the limitations Donna, but the good news is that you
    do accrue vacation time while taking the vacation hours. So for the 2
    weeks prior and 6 weeks after that DEC gives you, plus your 8 weeks
    vacation (8 weeks?!) you'll have vacation hours piling up. Personnel
    told me "if you are being paid, you accrue the time". 
    
    Gail

    Isn't there an issue on how many weeks you can be out before they don't
    have to hold you job open any longer? I don't know what that time
    period is, but if someone finds out please post. Seeing that personnel
    has been so drastically cut lately it is hard to get these kinds of 
    questions answered.

    The issue about being out so many weeks before they don't have to hold
    your job would only apply to the parental leave which is unpaid. If you
    had 8 weeks of vacation saved and took it all after having a baby, they
    couldn't count that against you as it is paid time off that you have
    accrued and is owed to you.

    
    I believe VTX Orangebook covers some/most? of this...

    As I understand the parental leave (I took advantage of it), the
    company cannot deny your right to take that leave.  What I can't
    understand is that your manager has to approve your leave.  I know that
    it affects your manager (the time your out), but what would happen if
    you manage said "No, I won't allow you to take all that time"?
    
    When I went out (I was out for the 8 weeks plus the 12), and my
    manager didn't really like it, but she approved and signed the form. 
    She always would say to me "now, how much time are you taking off", or
    "boy, thats alot of time without you".  It was my first and I was going
    to take as much time as I could.
    
    Oh well, I was just babbling.
    
    
    
    

    
    I also took as much time as possible off, she was my first.   I took
    10 weeks maternity with pay (due to c-section), 12 weeks unpaid 
    parental leave, and then two weeks vacation on top of that.   If you
    can afford to take it without pay, its worth it. 

    Small nit,
    
    In the US we don't have paid "maternity leave."  Digital considers you
    disabled, as does the college of Obstetrics and Gynecology, for two
    weeks before your due date to 6 weeks after if you deliver vaginally
    and 8 weeks post partum for a c-section.