Conference moira::parenting

    I am just over 6 weeks away and I am experiencing the same aches and
    pains as you mention. I feel the mild menstrual type cramp in the
    lowest areas of my belly off and on - more off than on. Then on
    Saturday my right thigh experienced the worst pain/I get them during my
    periods - my husband massaged my thigh for a few minutes and I was
    fine. 
    
    All this in addition to muscle-ache while going from sitting to
    standing position especially after sitting for a long time (which these
    days is 1/2 hour).
    
    Shaila

    I experienced that pain also. As far as what happened in the final
    weeks. I lost my mucus plug 2 weeks before I went into labor. One week
    after my due date I was going to the bathroom and my water broke! Thank
    god I was in the right place at the right time... Immediately following 
    that I started contractions 5 min. apart. I had to go to the hospital 
    within the hour because when my water broke I had Meconium and they
    have to monitor that as soo as possible so baby doesn't breath any of
    it in. So my labor started with out warning, I had never had a
    contraction up untill that time. I was glad my water broke, because at
    least I knew I was in labor. Anyway, that was the beginning of what
    followed to be 21 hours of labor! AAGGG!. But it was well worth the pain
    believe me.
    
    Take care and best wishes,
    
    Sandy
    
    

    I have 5 weeks to go until I am due, (May 26th). I also have those
    lower abdomen pains occasionally. I just assumed that it was the
    muscles stretching as the baby's head moved down. Alot like menstrual
    cramps, but stretching feeling too. I just take it as a good sign
    that things are progressing towards the labor scene!! This is my
    second, so I guess I don't worry about the aches and pains as much
    as I did with my first. Good luck!!! to everyone else who is close too.
    
    -Sheila
    

    I found myself going to the bathroom about 1 million times a day
    at the end of both pregnancies.  For some reason I especially
    remember this with James, my oldest, who was footling breech.
    I did not sleep well at all, and had various aches, pains,
    cramps, etc.
    
    In both pregnancies the start of labor was quite different. 
    With James, my water broke first.  With Hollis, I just started
    having contractions.  The doctor broke the amniotic sac with her
    when I was about 9 cm. dilated.  I don't remember losing the
    mucus plug either time.  
    
    Just take it really slow now -- as if you could move fast if you
    wanted to.  Nature has its own rhythms, and these last few weeks
    are a way of telling you to take it easy.
    
    One other thing:  Several small meals a day sat better on my tummy
    than three big ones, although a big breakfast went down real smooth
    most mornings.  Generally my snacks were fresh fruit, vegetables,
    and yogurt cups.  I also drank a lot of water, because I was breathing
    through my mouth a lot and was getting very dried out.

    
    Monica,
    
    I had the same type of pains you described just before Michael was born
    also, and my doctors said it was probably the head engaging (sp?) and
    the muscles stretching. It was engaging alright...felt like I was
    walking around the last few weeks with a watermelon between my legs.
    
    Thinking of you, and DYING to hear the news!
    
    Chris
    

           
    I had my baby on Jan 19.  I had the same kind of pressure you
    are talking about.  I had Mitch 5 days earlier than my due date and
    the pressure started around 2 weeks earlier.  It felt like I 
    was going to start my period. 
    
    When I went to my dr's appointment, he just told me it was 
    pressure from the baby...a big baby (9 lb)!  I also developed pretty
    strong braxton hicks when I walked or did too much.
    
    One thing I did notice about 4 days before I had Mitch, I
    started feeling nauseous again in the mornings and would get
    waves of it thoughout the day.  I asked the doc if it meant I
    would go into labor soon and he said "some people think it does
    mean you will and some think it means nothing." 
    
    My dr appt was on a Wednesday and on Sunday there 
    was going to be a full moon.  I asked him if that would have any 
    impact and he said it definately does.  The full moon seems to start 
    labor more than any other method.  He was right...I went into labor at
    3:30 am Sunday morning....Although, for weeks I knew I was going to
    have him that weekend...don't know how but just did...so who knows.
    
    Is there a full moon around your due date? 
    
    One last thing....I never lost my mucous plug...if I did, it must
    have happened in the shower.  4 days before I went into labor I
    noticed a clear discharge.  2 days later, it had a slight pink
    look to it.  I thought this was my plug...wrong!  It was amniotic
    fluid.  The leak was so small that I didn't realize it.  I looked
    in all my books to determine if that was what it was, but my
    'problem' did not resemble any of the descriptions so I just ignored
    it.  I'm lucky Mitch or me didn't develop any infections.  
    
    The one thing I found so frustrating about having my first child
    is that I relied too heavily on the books and not my instincts. 
    I really think no 2 labors are alike and you have to use your common
    sense.  Read the books, listen to people's stories, but use your
    head.  Call the doctor if you're really concerned.  That's what
    we pay them for.   If you don't feel good about the answer, call
    another doctor.
    
    Sorry this is so long....just got carried away....!
    
    Kristen

    Well, there'll be a full moon May 2nd, weeks before term......
    
    As fas as nausea is concern, it seems to have come back throughout
    the third trimester, a long with an increase in the congestion that 
    plagued me throughout both pregnancies. (as a matter of fact I did
    not get to keep ANY of this mornings' breakfast !) 
    Discharge is also on the increase these last few weeks, although no
    colour.
    I was under the impression that loosing the plug means labour within
    a few days...2 weeks is a long time!
    
    Yes, having had last year's experience with labour (and listening to
    all of the labour stories here), I am prepared for several variations
    on the delivery theme 8-)
    
    I like the watermelon analogy... My inner thigh muscles are so tired
    I feel "wishboned" a lot of the time. 
    
    And hubby just stares at my and says "oh my goodness" in utter
    amazement. I tell him I am not the woman he married. He responds:
    "No, you're much more!"
    
    Monica

    I may as well join the final weeks band wagon.  I'm having the same
    pressures and cramping, too, and my doctor said it's just the baby settling 
    down. I can't imagine that it's settling down at all since I'm still 
    carrying very high and out front.  The night time is bad since all my 
    ligaments stiffen and it makes rolling over a delightful experience 8^)
    This kid also has found my sciatic nerve, you just never know when
    you're going to feel this stabbing pain at the top of your leg while
    your legs gives out, too.
    
    Hmmm, I just checked my calendar and it said New Moon May 2nd and Full
    Moon May 16th.  
    
    Hope everyone's having fun 8^)
    
    Susan (due May 17th - hubby's bday)

    Since most people feel better when they hear someone else could be
    worse off, let me tell you a little story.  A neighbor of mine is 16
    days overdue on Monday.  She goes in for an induction at 7:00am.  At
    8:30pm she comes home (driving the car while the husband is the
    passenger).  She goes back the next morning and at noon - still
    nothing - meaning no dialation at all.
    
    I haven't seen her husband to talk to him, but I am sure they did
    c-section last night.  I sure hope for her sake she is resting
    comfortably at this point.
    
    UGH!!
    
    -sandy
    
    

    
    	Well...hears another one for you.  I'm 7 weeks away from my
    	due date...June 12th.  Since Friday I've been experiencing 
    	cramping, diarrehea off and on, and some nausea.  Saw my
    	OB yesterday, who didn't seem concerned but thought that it
    	could be a virus, or I could be one of those lucky women who feel
    	louzy in their last trimester.  Now my son or husband show no
    	signs of the flu...so I'm wondering.  It comes off and on....I
    	feel fine right now, but yesterday I did also, and went home and
    	felt lousy all over.
    
    	Anyone else had this type of experience?
    
    	Hoping it's a touch of the flu....

    RE: 10
    
    I had the flu a week before my due/delivery date. At first I thought I 
    might be going into eary labor since I had just lost my plus and I had
    diarrehea but as the day progressed I kept getting sicker and sicker and 
    started to run a fever. The flu went away in two days. No one else in my 
    family got sick either.                                               
    
    Hope your feeling better.
    
    Angie  

    My favorite topc...:-). I am 6 weeks away (june 5th) and ever since i
    caught a nasty cold/cough from my 3 year old about a month ago I have
    not been free of some amount of congestion or cough. It is not a full
    blown cold or cough but my nose gets stuffy when I sleep and I cough
    off and on all thru the day and night. I am just attributing it
    to having  a low resistance to such things right now.
    
    Shaila

    Yup, my calendar was deceiving me... there is a NEW moon on the 2nd
    and 16th has the full moon. Well, Susan, it appears we are due the 
    same day!
    I have read (and discussed it with my doc) that the runs are yet 
    another possible side effect of pregnancy -- I get them all the time
    but attibute it mostly to a lot of fruit. If I DON'T eat enough 
    fruit during the day I have the opposite (and more painful!) effect.
    
    As far as sleeping is concerned, about an average of once a week
    for the last 2 months or so, I will be unable to fall back to 
    sleep for about 3 hours (!) after I make my trip to the washroom.
    Its incredibly frustrating and I end up grabbing a bite and watching
    an hour of television before I can bed down again.
    
    Saw the doc this morning -- I'm doing great, she says and that heart
    beat is absolutely tremendous! (gallop, gallop... Doc asks me if
    I have a horse in there!) 
    
    We have installed a plastic sheet and two beach towels under the 
    regular sheets of the bed -- with all the crinkly sounds,    
    I now feel like an elephant in a candy wrapper at night! 8-)
    
    Monica
    

    Monica - I LOVE IT - an elephant in a candy wrapper!
    
    I've had a slight stomach bug for the last few weeks.  My son had the
    virus with sick stomach and vomiting for two days.  My husband has had
    the other end working overtime.  We are all feeling fine otherwise.
    
    I remember with my second - I delivered at 11:10 in the evening. 
    Around midnight, I sent my husband home to sleep and I stayed in
    recovery (no one else needed the space, so I got to sleep there where I
    was alone and it was quiet).  Anyway, about 2:00 I woke up with the
    worst cramps, I thought I was having a twin!  Next thing I new,
    diahyou-know-what.  I couldn't stop it.  If you thought having a baby
    took away your modesty, try having a nurse come into your room three
    times in one night to clean you up and change your sheets.  I was so
    sick from the flu I couldn't even get up to the bathroom.  Come to find
    out, my oldest (then 2) also had the dreaded flu!
    
    With my first I felt generally yuck for three - four days before I went
    into labor - which I didn't expect because he came 4 weeks early.  8^)
    
    Who knows what it all means!!!
    
    -sandy
    

    RE:.13
    
    Monica, 
    
    You know it is not a horse, right?  Didn't I read that you *do* know
    *what* "it" is in the last volume of parenting?  
    
    I'm sure I am not alone when I wish you well, you are in my thoughts a
    lot and I admire your courage! 
    
    Waiting to hear....
    
    Beth

    I'm due June 1 but the baby is still breech. Anyone have experience re
    if he will turn by himself or what doctors do to try to turn him in
    place of a C- section?  
    
    Also, I was just hit with the most tremendous tiredness that it took me
    to the nurses where I napped for 20 minutes easy.  It was either that
    or crawl under my desk.  

One of my friends just had a baby.  Hers was in the breech position at 32 weeks
and her doctor said they'd have a C-section if it remained that way.  Baby
went head-down around 34 weeks.

    Chelsea has been head down for 6 weeks and is so snug in there it will
    be quite a trick if she turns.  I have had the cramping for about 2
    weeks now and seem to get them mostly at night, but also on and off
    during the day.  They feel like menstrual cramps and not really like
    Braxton contractions.
    
    We are still doing our twice weekly trips to the hospital for
    non-stress testing and she is doing wonderful.  Seems like the older
    she gets that her readings on the fetal heart monitoring get better
    and better.  We also eat before the test and she hasn't had to be
    nuked with the tazer gun again except for the one time....yeah (I hate
    that thing!)
    
    Looks like alot of us are gonna have a happy Mothers day!
    
    Thinking of all of you and wishing you the best of Labor Days!
    
    ..Lori
    (Due May 13)                                           

    One of the couples in our childbirth class had heard that, if you play
    music for the baby, down low, the baby will turn towards the music.  It
    sounds insane, but they tried it, and it worked.
    
    Cause and effect?  Who knows ...
    
    Leslie

    RE: Breech baby
    
    At my ultrasound at 28 weeks the baby was breech - head up and legs up
    with butt low down. The Dr said that since this is my second baby the
    chances of the baby turning around are quite large and the baby can
    decide to turn around even at the last minute. This is specifically
    because it is our second. Now at subsequent Dr's visits she has trie to
    poke at my belly to find out if the baby has turned but my belly
    muscles are so strong that she has difficulty exacting the position.
    She says that she feels that the baby has turned but not completely
    sure.
    
    Her strategy is to wait until about 36-37 weeks and if at that point if
    poking my belly does not tell her the baby's position she will do a
    quick ultrasound to check the position. If we would like she will try
    the physical (external) manipulation - she will try to move the baby
    around physically by pushing on my belly.
    
    I have heard mixed reviews about the physical manipulation since (1) it
    could be painful if the Dr does not have gentle hands (2) the bay could
    flip back around even after all that. So I am not sure what I want to
    do - I am waiting to cross the bridge when I come to it.
    
    All I know is that I do not want to wait until I have been in labor for
    eternity and then have a C-section if the baby is breech. I still have
    3 weeks to decide ( I am at 33 weeks so the Dr won't check for 3 more
    weeks).
    
    Shaila

    First...Hello Lori, I'm so glad you and Chelsea are doing well.  Hugs
    to both you and Glen.
    
    I had the same pain too.  About two weeks before I delivered Thomas.  I
    told the doctor.  The testing revealed no contractions so the doctor
    said it was probably the baby lying low and pushing against a nerve
    or something.  It got really bad on Sat. night 11/23/92 at about
    7:00pm, and then stopped.  But...my mucus plug broke at midnight and
    Thomas was born at 7:25pm on the 24th, so.....
    
    I can only offer advice on what helped me when I had these pains and
    believe it or not, walking was the only thing that helped.  But, when
    your that far along and uncomfortable, you'll do ANTHING to get
    comfortable.
    
    Gosh, I feel like such a old pro now, offering advice to expectant
    mothers!
    
    Karen
    
    

    Another happy mother's day, I'm due 19 May, but my instincts tell me we
    could get into june before this baby decides to show up.  She's in
    position, but not dropped, and I'm not having major discomfort, except
    due to the abrupt change from winter to summer----I'm HHHHHHOOOOTTTTT!
    
    Sure is a lot of us going in 3 to 6 weeks!
    Adrienne
    

    RE:  BREECH BABY
    
    My baby was transverse (sideways) breech up until 36 wks.  She did
    finally turn and unbelievable I didn't even notice.
    
    Angie
  

    
    So, have any of you "May mothers" dropped yet ?  I forget what
    the timeframe is...
    	
    Karen, nearly 36 weeks
    

    How do you know when you've dropped?  Do you just wake up one morning
    and say "Boy, I've dropped" or is it gradual?
    
    I don't feel like I've dropped at all, the baby is still having the
    time of it's life under my rib cage, but I'm feeling lots of pressure
    and cramping below.  My husband says I'm definitely still up there but I'm 
    constantly talking to people who tell me how much I've dropped.
    
    Susan (24 more days...maybe)

    
    Hi Susan.  Long time no see.   Hmm, How do you know you've dropped? 
    Well, from my wife's experience, EVERYONE WILL TELL YOU!!  :^)
    
    "BOY, You DROPPED!!"  You'll hear it a hundred times in one day!
    
    Chris D.
    
    p.s. Congrat's Sue.

    Hi Chris, yes, it's been awhile, I try to stay away from that group,
    I'm sure you know what I mean 8^) , but I do keep in touch with a few
    people.
    
    I guess I've dropped then, I've been hearing it alot.  A surprise to
    me, for sure.
    
    Susan

    Nope, I don't think so -- a good way to measure (this is my guess)
    would be to lean forward when you are in a chair, if you're still 
    short of breath (huff, puff) then baby's still up there....(I could
    be wrong...) "What to expect when you're expecting" says that on the 
    average, women who are pregnant for the first time will often feel this
    drop, while women in subsequent pregnancies on the average don't really
    drop until delivery. Of course, they note, that there are plenty of 
    exceptions in either case.
    
    Re: Horse -- sure looks like a human baby in the ultrasound! 8-)
    
    Re: turning -- having had this discussion with the doc - she said that 
    it all depends on how much room the baby still has. She doubts that 
    mine will turn at this point, since baby seems quite large. 
    
    A friend of mine who had her first in February (I announced it in
    the last volume) had the baby's head down from the 30th week on,
    but, just at delivery (unbeknownst to staff and mother) three weeks
    early, the baby was transverse breech!
    
    I recall in the last volume we had a lengthy discussion about 
    the external manipulation method (after reading THOSE notes I don't
    want to experience that). Perhaps someone can recall where the
    discussion was?
    
    RE: lower pains - glad I am not the only one who gets 'em. Didn't 
    realize they were that common. They were really pretty fierce this 
    morning although I think they were partially gas (hard to tell).
    
    Each time I moan and rub my middle, I have to tell my husband
    (who, having heard me has this strange look on his face) "Not
    contractions, dear!"  He told me I am not allowed to deliver this
    week since his boss is away on vacation and he is in charge.
    I only have one more day in which I have to "keep my legs crossed" 8-)
    
    Monica 

    Well we went in for our 37 week check up this morning and got quite a
    surprise.  Three weeks ago I asked my doc to estimate the size of
    Chelsea and he guesstimated around 5-1/2 to 6 pounds.  Well this
    morning he was amazed at how much I was "all baby" and said that if
    I carry to term she could easily be 8-1/2 to 9 pounds.
    
    Being a first time mom-to-be, I really had no idea how much babies can
    gain in the last weeks of pregnancy.  My doctor said it can easily be
    up to 1/2 pound a week.  I have put on 26 pounds and am on the short
    side (5'2").
    
    Now all this is just fine, cuz from the looks of her growth she is
    a thriving little girl who obviously has enjoyed her mother's many
    meals of surf and turf.  Its just that my doctor mentioned a possible
    c-section because of her size, probably due to the fact that I have
    had 4 major abdominal surgeries and he is concerned about the stress
    on me...and I am sure that he is also wanting to make her delivery
    as stress free as possible.
    
    Its just that when I think of having a c-section I feel so let down.
    I know in my heart the ultimate goal is to have a healthy baby and
    a good delivery for both mother and child.....but I have been so
    hyped up on experiencing every piece of this pregancy and that includes
    water breaking.....whopper contractions and a vaginal delivery.  I know
    nothnig has been decided for sure and I need to just stay in today, but
    every time I think of having to go c-section I feel so depressed.
    
    Needed to ramble....thanks.
    
    ..Lori
          

    Doctors always give you an estimate of how big the baby is, but it
    is just a guess. They don't really know for sure how big the baby is.
    They are just telling you the average. 4 weeks before my first was born
    my doctor told me he was 7 lbs and would probably be well over 8 by
    the time I delivered. He ended up being 7 lbs 11 ozs, which was perfect
    for me. He was on time too.
    
    About dropping, I am 36 weeks along, and I have alot of people telling
    me I've dropped. I feel I have too. Could this mean I'll be delivering
    early?  I kind of hope so!!! Looking forward to it.
    
    -Sheila
    

    Had my weekly ultrasound and NonStress Test; baby's fine and 
    dandy.
    The head is really low now (explains all the pain in the area of
    the cervix) and their estimation for present weight (based on
    circumference of head, torso and length of thigh bone) is just 
    over 7 pounds. (3 weeks to go though....) 
    Got to see baby's smiling face! 
    I can't wait! 
    
    Monica

    Good for you, Monica!  
    
    With this kind of news I get to smile too.
    
    Have a wonderful weekend...
    
    judy

   Right before I had Tori I asked the doctor how big he thought the baby
 was and he felt around and guess her to be at least 8 lbs.  Also all of
 the labor nurses told me I was going to have a big one, but she came out
 6 lb 8 oz.  Boy where they wrong!  If the doctor insisted on a C-section
 due to baby size I would insist on a sonogram to be sure the baby really
 is as big as he thinks.  Especially since its just a guess.  Tori was
 21 inches long so she was long she just wasn't real fat. I'm told I came
 out the same way.

   Lisa

    
    Re .29 Lori
    
    PLEASE don't let your dr's get you all worked up about having to have a
    c-section due to their estimation (visual) of the size of your baby. I
    made the same mistake. All the dr's in my OB's office said I was going
    to have a big baby, and my OB kept telling me they may have to schedule
    a c-sec. My biggest question was "why can't I try to deliver, and if 
    I  can't deliver due to size (I am a large framed woman) then we could
    consider c-sec?".  They would say it would be less stress on me and the
    baby etc...   
    
    The DAY before Michael was born they were telling me all of this, had
    me scheduled for an ultrasound to determine size (the only exact way
    they can measure at this time) the following Monday, etc...  They said
    the baby was approximately 8-9 lbs already and if I went to term  the 
    c-sec could be necessary (2-weeks)....
    
    Needless to say, Michael was born the very next day at 6lbs, 14oz!
    He was long for his weight 20.5 ", but not a "big baby" as they said.
    I had 13 hrs of labor, and only 4 hours spent at the hospital. 3-4
    pushes and he came right out.
    
    So...as everyone else says, ask for an ultrasound to determine size
    before agreeing to a scheduled c-sec.
    
    Good luck!
    Chris
    

    Other side of the story here,

    	They kept telling me that my baby was going to be big but around 8
    pounds, even when I had an ultrasound a few days before he was born.
    (the weight estimation kept going up and down).

    	It wasn't until labor was well under way (about 14 hours into it)
    that they revised their estimation to 10 pounds. He came out at 9.11.(
    and he also had a bowel movement on the way out and so I wonder if he
    would have made it to 10 pounds had that not happened). I did not have
    a C-section (but did come oh so close).

    	Moral of the story? No one knows what is going to happen until it
    happens. if you need a C-section, you need a C-section (what are you
    going to say no?).

    	I think that a lot of disservice is done to women by glorifying
    labor and delivery and making them think that if they do *anything*
    (take drugs, have an epidural, not like it) that they are somehow not
    good people and are not doing the *natural* thing.

    	Hang in there, you're almost at the end. Best thing you can do is
    prepare yourself *if* you do have a C-section (can you move things
    downstairs?). But don't worry about it until it's here.

    	By the way, time is a great teacher, I had these *exact* same
    concerns when they started telling me I might have a have a C-section,
    it's all in the previous parenting notes file. Probably good for a
    laugh. ;-)

    				Wendy

    Here's another side..........

    When I asked my Dr how big the baby was, at about 39 weeks, he looked
    at my husband, who's 6'+ and broad shouldered, looked at me, about 5'8,
    looking very much like mama house, and said, "Well, he's going to be a
    good sized baby"  He thought the baby would be about 7-8+ pounds.

    When I finally delivered 2 weeks late, my dr and all the nurses were
    taking bets on how big he was.  The highest bet was 9 pounds.  Russell
    weighed in at 10 pounds, 4 oz, and 22 inches long.  Big was right.  

    By the way, I'm tall, but pretty thin.  If someone had said to me that
    I was going to have that big of a baby naturally, I'd have told them
    they were crazy.  It all depends on how you're built inside, and just
    how much you can stretch.  I was lucky, I stretched with room to spare.
    But I was also half expecting to have a C-section.  I'm not sure a Dr
    can tell until you actually try to deliver the first time.  

    marianne    

    Well I'm scheduled for a full ultrasound tomorrow.  On Thursday I go in
    for my 38 week appointment and should have a better idea of the plan of
    action.  I think my doctors concerns are mostly around my previous
    history, which includes 4 major abdominal surgeries.  I plan on
    questioning him extensively when I go in on Thursday.  Bottom line is
    I want whats best for Chelsea and me, so we have a safe delivery.
    
    I agree with Wendy that to much is placed on natural delivery.  I know
    for myself that the minute I heard about the possibility of a c-section
    I went into a good depression, topped off with lots of anger, guilt,
    and feelings of failure.  From what I've read this is all very natural,
    but I would like to get my focus off the importance of how Chelsea
    comes into the world, as long as she comes safely.
    
    Considering we did IVF and I had no concerns how to get me pregnant,
    natural or high tech 90's, you would think natural or c-section would
    be the least of my concerns.  But I have learned during pregnancy that
    there are more questions and feelings unknown until you experience them
    yourself.
    
    Thank you for sharing all your experiences, it really helps to hear
    other real life stories.
    
    I trust my doctor, he's been my Gyn for 14 years and he is wonderful.
    I know he will make the best choice with me and Chelsea in mind.
    
    I can't believe its getting so close...I'm so excited!  
    
    Also today is my first day off of work.....YAHOOOOO!  Its so nice to be
    home and not having had to get up and shower..shave...and shine, fight
    the crowded freeways and have people at work say to me "You haven't had
    that baby yet!"
    
    Will let you know what the estimate on the ultrasound says.
    
    How are all of you other May Moms doing?  Still having them cramps, I
    am for sure...they seem to increase with every day.  Also entered the
    stage of being wired constantly.  Want to nap, but no can do.  Been
    cleaning junk drawers until midnight.  Think I could take some of this
    energy and scrub the toilet...no way, my nesting would rather rearrange
    all the vegetable and soup cans in the food pantry!
    
    Good Luck....and again thanks!
    
    ..Lori
    

    Lori,
    
    Nesting already huh?!!! I never had that feeling with Chris.
    
    I went for my 36 week checkup this morning and everything is going
    fine. The baby's head is very low, which I thought was the case this
    weekend already. Lots of cramps and pressure on that bladder!!
    
    Maybe I will go early. It would be kind of nice. We'll see. I am 
    looking forward to having some time off from work though. Two more
    weeks to go, and then I can stay home too!!!
    
    Good luck with your ultrasound tomorrow!
    
    -Sheila (Due May 26th)
    

    Me, I am still waiting for that burst of energy; no trouble napping
    (could do it all day if I wanted to).
    Yes, the lower abdominal pain is still there, and seems to get 
    worse at night. Husband is getting concerned with all the funny 
    faces I am making lately.....8-)
    
    Hmmm... nesting. Doesn't that come just before delivery - nature's
    way of sending you a little more energy for the labour to come?
    Don't wear yourself out!
    
    Good luck!
    Monica
    

    Nesting - ha I never had it with either kid!  Don't think I've EVER had
    it since either!  Wouldn't mind getting it though - spring cleaning
    time is here....
    
    -sandy
    

    
    I had the nesting instinct bigtime right near the end of my pregnancy.
    Was constantly picking up everything all over the house, rearranging 
    cabinets, etc...  My husband used to have a real chuckle over it.
    
    Can't wait to hear all the good news on all of these new babies due!
    
    Chris
    

    	
    	Well, I'm hoping the nesting instinct hits hard during my 
    	time off (before the baby).  I doubt I'll ever find time
    	to get my sweaters sorted and put away otherwise :-)
    
    	Karen
    

    I had a strong nesting urge before my first was born,  I found myself
    on my hands and knees scrubbing the shower with a tooth brush two weeks
    before she was born.
    
    With my second I got the urge the day I went into labor but not with
    the same severity as with #1.
    
    Angie

    I also had the nesting urge. I found myself rearranging the nursery
    every other day, I laugh now when I picture myself folding the baby's
    clothes over and over and over!  Also, scrubbing the bathroom was
    another task I would do constantly. The day I went into labor I was out
    most of the day driving from store to store, the shopping instinct I
    guess, then again you don't need to be pregnant to feel like doing
    that! HAHA!
    
    Sandy

    Since I've been home for a few weeks now, I've been taking my time
    tidying things up (don't enjoy scrubbing much, but I do like putting
    everything where it belongs). So I would not consider it nesting so
    much as battening down the hatches and bracing my home  8-) 8-).
    
    Saw the doc this morning, and although Alan thinks I have indeed
    dropped, the doc says cervix soft but still closed, baby's head
    still floating. She discussed the possibility to induce on the 9th
    (a week early), but the choice in the end was mine. Next thursday
    she will have her back-up in to meet me, and the two will decide
    if it should be done.
    (two reasons: our anxiety at having to wait any longer, and doc's
    ability to do the delivery, since as of the 11th, she's on
    leave so that she can rest for the twins she's carrying).
    
    What a month!
    Anyway, Alan is starting to have that "oh my god, fatherhood"
    basketcase look, and doesn't think he will be getting much done
    at work till the time comes. Me, I'm just trying not to aggrevate my
    back and not waddle around too much. I'm SO awkward. 
    Back to the needlepoint (just learned how to do it.)
    
    Monica

    Well I had the full ultrasound and to be honest its such a wide
    estimate range, I don't really feel like I know much more than when I
    started out.  They said that they give you an estimate, also a low and
    high range.  The estimate was 7-1/2 as of yesterday...6 on the low and
    8 on the high.  My original due date is the 13th and now they are
    saying the 9th....Monica, looks like we could be going in at the same
    time!  I will also know more tomorrow when I see my doc and hopefully
    will have my first internal and see if anything is happening that we
    don't know about.
    
    I'm not much for scrubbing when it comes to nesting, but am definately
    into the organizational mode.  Its really nice to get those 5 year old
    junk drawers cleaned out!  Glenn thought I was crazy when I told him
    I was going to wash her clothes again (washed them three weeks ago).
    I told him that they are getting dusty and he just laughed at the idea
    that the clothes sitting in her brand new dresser could actually be
    collecting dust!  Oh how the mind works overtime!
    
    My hands are so swollen I can barely bend them.  Doc is not concerned
    cuz my blood pressure is great, just have symptomatic rhumatory (sp?)
    arthritis....I told him I have Farmer John Sausage Fingers and my feet
    look like walrus paddles!
    
    Can't wait to see what the doc says tomorrow!
    
    ....Lori

    I had my baby by cesarean (c-section) as he was a transverse breech. 
    He was in this position from week 28 and although he changed regularly
    (several times a day) up until week 41.5, at the last moment he was
    still in transverse breech.  I was not given a choice about a normal
    delivery by my doctor - she said it was not safe.
    
    Also, I asked her about turning my baby and when told there was a 1%
    chance of death, there was no way!  Apparently, the baby is in that
    position for a reason and the turning can wrap the cord around the baby's 
    throat and cut off the air supply.
    
    Deb
    

    Has anyone had experience in changing doctors in the last month or two? 
    I've been having long conversations with the practice I'm with, which
    was great when it was simply gynecology.  Their view related to
    collaboration between patient and doctor is that any problems are all
    my fault, no one else but me has ever complained about anything, they
    know they've done their absolute best and they feel they've already
    talked to me enough.  Not exactly the best set of answers if one wants
    to break out of the fear/tension/pain cycle.  
    
    Anyhow, I'm seeking to move and just wondered if anyone had had this
    experience.  Will other doctors just consider you another hysteric?  Or
    can they see that these things can happen?  It's week 36 now and I want
    to get this resolved before I go to a Thursday appointment to see if
    the baby's still breech.  

My step-daughter did this, mainly because her husband wanted her to have a
female gynecologist rather than a male one (no flames, please, that was their
problem but he is a strict fundamentalist Muslim).  Anyway, I think the change
was for the better (she changed in the 35th week) because they didn't have
confidence in the doctor they had and felt that he was over doing the 
ultrasounds and causing them additional expense.

I can't imagine going into delivery with a doctor I didn't trust.  But make
sure you get it right this time; you don't have much time for another change :-)

ccb

    You deserve the best for yourself and your child -- if the 
    folk you are dealing with presently do not make you happy, 
    find someone who will. I am sure there are a number of recommendations
    friends, family or co-workers could make for you. It will not be as
    smooth perhaps, as staying with the same practitioner, but records 
    could be transferred. 
    Be brave and do what you must to make yourself happy. You'll not
    regret it if and when you find someone that will have your confidence!
    
    Let us know how it turns out!
    
    Monica

	So May moms, does everyone have her suitcase packed ?

	Karen, who hasn't sent in her hospital admission forms yet...

    I changed doc's at 37 weeks.  My doc left the practice so I had
    no choice.
    
    I actually liked the new one better but I delivered at 39 weeks
    so I didn't get to deal with him too much.
    
    I say go for it!  
    
    Won't be much longer anyways and you will probably feel better!
    
    Kristen

    Suitcase is packed for Mom and Chelsea...Coach's bag needs a little bit
    of work on it!  Only took Glenn half the night to figure out how to
    program the cheap stopwatch I picked up from the drug store!
    
    I've been putting together a Coach's gift pack for Glenn...kinda been
    a project over the last couple of months.  Wrapping little gifts and
    picking up some of his favorite shoes and clothes.  So much of the
    attention is on the baby and daddy has been so great these last 39
    weeks that its nice to surprise and spoil him.
    
    Anybody have any new symptoms...besides unmeasurable excitment!  
    
    Still lots of cramping and more Braxton Hicks...a little bit of new
    lower back/butt pain...the not knowing when she will decide to come
    is driving me nuts...I want to hold her soooo bad!!
    
    ....Lori

    
    Don't forget to pack a nice bottle of champagne, ladies!   It's
    a nice treat after the big event.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Carol

When Carol said don't forget to pack the champagne I laughed out loud because
it reminded me of a funny story!  The new parents were treated to a nice steak
dinner with candlelight, cloth napkins and champagne.  Well - I thoroughly
enjoyed the champagne so much and having missed alcohol for the last 9 months
that I had two little glassess and the next thing I knew I was giggling and 
acting silly and was basically blown!  My husband cut me off.  Was a fond 
memory of that evening.

    
    
    Best of luck to all you expectant mothers.
    I was packed at 34 weeks (pre-term labor scare) and
    didn't deliver til' 42 weeks!  
    Boy was I glad to get that 10lb 22 1/2 inch monster out of me! :)
    And to think that I want to do it again?!  I think the percocets
    haven't worn off yet ;-)
    
    
    -Chris 

    Alan was reading the part about "after the delivery" in the 
    What to Expect book to me last night. We both had a good laugh about
    the champagne -- "Oh good" I said hearing this about sipping bubbly
    after x hours of hard labour "just what I need after loosing 
    blood and having various chemistry in me - a good chance to get 
    drunk and have a migraine!" 
    Nix the booze for me. 
    
    I got it so that I can finish packing in about 5 - 10 minutes. All
    instructions for Alan have been written out and reviewed (He
    has a list that tells him who to phone and their phone numbers, who
    to E-mail, and what to do with the paperwork that the doctor needs to
    fill out so that we get paid during my leave and what to do to finish
    the home-made birth announcements). Now, Have I forgotten anything?
    (I'm starting to walk around in tight little circles trying to answer
    this question).
    
    I just CAN'T WAIT.
    Not to mention just a tad apprehensive about getting that babe out
    of me without doing it any harm. 
    
    Monica
    (scared and excited!)

    I delivered Lindsay at 6:22 a.m. We celebrated with my parents and 
    Mamosas.......after my parents left, the nurse went to get me up and 
    moving....i fainted.....i would say it was a combination of the 
    heat (they had turned up readying for the baby....and neglected to 
    turn back down!!!!), the loss of alot of blood, the stress of being up
    all night and what i went through........BUT boy those nurses teased me
    about passing out drunk!!  I think I had one glass....if that...who
    remembers!!
    
    

    Do hospitals still serve a dinner for the parents when it's time to go
    home after childbirth??  I know they used to.
    
    Chris D.

    
    Leominster Hospital served a very nice dinner to my husband and I the
    night before I went home.  It was served in the dining room, with a
    carafe of wine, linen napkins, etc, and a pretty nice piece of steak!
    Cheesecake (yum!) for dessert! Candlelight and all!
    It was wonderful!
    
    My husband still teases me about the fact that I sent him back up the
    room for my "doughnut" because I couldn't sit in the regular wooden
    chairs and still concetrate on eating.  :-)
    
    Chris
    

    Well went in for my 39 week appointment and things are looking good.
    Had my first internal (oh joy!) and doc said I was 50% effaced and 
    dialated to 1.  Guess this doesn't really mean anything is gonna happen
    real soon, but it sure was exciting to know something is happening down
    there...all those cramps have to be for something!
    
    How is everybody else doing?
    
    Was hoping to be holding Chelsea Rose on Mothers Day....its hard to
    be patient at this stage....guess I will just have to rock my belly
    in my hands...unless something happens in the next couple of days.
    
    ..Lori

    Today is my last day of work, and I am so excited about this baby. I
    can't wait, but I can because I still have alot of stuff to do at
    home to get ready. My husband asked me yesterday when I was going to
    pack my bag. I haven't even thought of it yet, with being busy with
    work, and finishing up my Masters Degree. 
    
    This weekend I will have to start getting ready. I realized after
    reading the note about essentials to buy that I need to buy nursing
    pads too. I forgot all about them, thank god, I saw that note!
    
    Good luck to all you other mother's close to delivery. Everything will
    go fine!!! 
    
    -Sheila (38 weeks!)
    

    I read somewhere (I can't remember where, sorry) That Kodak is offering
    a free Star Camara outfit to any mothers delivering a baby on Mothers
    Day.  I will try to find the article I read this in.
    
    Angie

    Gee, that's nice of Kodak - how do they know - go up to any 
    Kodak counter with baby's birth certificate? 
    
    Okay, I thought I'd keep this to myself and surprise everyone. But
    I am just bursting with anticipation.
    
    I get induced tomorrow. 8-) 8-).
    
    Now there is a chance they'll not succeed and send me home but......
    
    Monica

    Monica,
    
    	Good luck with the delivery. I bet you are excited. Keep us posted.
    
    Shaila
    4_weeks_to_go_and_waddling_for_sure :-)
    	

    Monica,
    
    The article I read did say that you have to mail a copy of the baby's
    birth certificate to Kodak.  (I promise I will look for it this
    weekend just in case you have the baby Sunday.)
    
    Good luck!!!.         
    
    Angie
    
    (P.S)  Try to get some sleep,  I could not sleep the night before my
    baby was induced.  I was way too excited.  
    
    

    Good luck, Monica.  My neighbor was induced on Monday (with a pit drip
    that was going all day) and she finally went into labor THURSDAY
    afternoon!!!!
    
    Just wanted to make your weekend!!
    
    But then again, I had pit (while in labor) and the kid was out in 2
    hrs.
    
    -sandy

    Will be thinking of you Monica...wishing you the best of luck!!
    
    ...Lori

    Monica,
    
    Good, good luck - maybe you are in labor as I type............
    
    Positive vibrations to you all !
    
    
    Lee Ann
    

    I guess I'm the first May mom to go!  I was due on May 17th (last day
    of work was May 1) and Sarah Olivia Myers decided that she had waited
    long enough and was born at 4:07 pm on Saturday, May 2nd.
    
    I was extremely lucky with my labor, I started with what I thought were
    gas pains at 4am, arrived at the hospital at 10:30 (an hours ride!!!)
    and was already 4 1/2 cm dilated and 100% effaced.  Had a shot of
    nubane at 1:00 when I was 7 cm dilated and at 3:15 I was 10 cm dilated
    and was told to start pushing.  I was delighted that it went so easily
    for me.  My husband was GREAT and a wonderful inspiration.
    
    It's been a week and I"m starting to get my strength back.  I love
    being a mom and Sarah is just an awesome baby.   I couldn't imagine a
    better daughter and she's absolutely gorgeous, too (what, me,
    biased??).
    
    Good luck to the rest of the May moms.  May your labors be easy and you
    enjoy your babies as much as I'm enjoying mine!!!
    
    Susan

    Changing doctors turned out to be easier than one could have known,
    even at 36 weeks.  I had found one group who had accept me, on the
    basis of a phone call, but I was holding out for this one man who
    delivers the doctors' wives at the hospital I wanted, Baystate.  His 
    office also agreed on the phone and I saw him this last Friday.  He
    started from what I think is the right point -- could he help me get
    back together with my old group.  We determined I couldn't and he
    accepted me.  His manner was a welcome relief -- straight talking,
    direct, assumed I wasn't a dummy, etc.  
    
    He gave me the reasons why he didn't think it was a good idea to try to
    turn the baby from being breech, all ofwhich made sense.  He also
    connected some previous old info from my file, related to a uterine
    septum which had been removed, that this had a bearing on the lie of
    the baby.  Made sense.  
    
    Anyhow, the C-section is scheduled for May 28.  Hard to believe there
    are only two more weekends before Nathaniel comes.  It was both a
    pleasure and difficult to have Sunday  mostly to myself, with Daniela
    off to a birthday party.  I think she's beginning to realize too that
    her days of being an only child are also numbered.  She woke up Sunday
    morning saying "baby brother, baby brother".  
    
    Any advice from anyone on the relative benefits of doing epidural over
    spinal for a C-section?  I had thought that epidural was enough but
    doctor mentioned spinal.  I'll question him more this Thursday, but
    experiences would be useful.  Thanks!

    
    CONGRAT'S  Susan!!!!  Glad to hear everything went well.
    
    Chris D.

    re. .71
    
    My wife had an epidural for her C-section. It was plenty adequate for
    pain coverage. They were 3/4 done with the incisions and nearly ready
    to take out Jacob, when she asked if they'd started yet! She couldn't
    feel an single thing. She had had epidurals with labor with both our
    second and third children, and she commented that the epidural for the
    section was "heavier". The anesthesiologist confirmed this, saying it
    is a larger dose than when in normal labor. She was able to move well
    within about 1 - 1.5 hours after the surgery (as well as you can after
    a C-section!).
    
    Spinals are more "involved". You are numb higher up (from about
    mid-chest as opposed to below the waist with an epi), may feel as if
    you can't breathe (although you *can*... it just *feels* as if you
    can't), and must usually lie flat for a number of hours to avoid a
    "spinal headache". 
    
    Personally, I'd opt for the lesser meds, if your dr. will allow it.
    
    --dave--

    
    Another May mum delivers early!!
    
    I was due on May 8th, but at my 37 week check-up we found out the baby
    was transverse breech and my pelvis was too small to even try labour.
    
    So I had a C-section under epidural on April the 29th and Rebecca Kate
    was lifted out at 12 noon!!
    
    The birth was fine and I am healing well. They do 7-10 C-sections under
    epidural at the John Radcliffe in Oxford per day, so they did a very
    neat job of the scar.
    
    We are getting used to life at home - we came home when Rebecca was 4 
    days old and I certainly don't feel I have missed anything by not
    having a full labour and vaginal birth. I have a healthy beautiful
    baby, that's all that matters!!
    
    Readers from the last volume of these notes may remember I was
    exercising right up until week 36. Well I am not allowed to do any
    aerobics until 6 weeks after the birth. Guess I'll just enjoy the rest!
    
                 Celia
    

    Chelsea Rose was born on Tuesday, May 12th!
    
    7lbs...12oz.....20"......9:06pm.
    
    Mom had one of those wonderful labors that she will never forget. 
    After twenty five hours at home waiting for contractions to get five
    minutes apart...which they never did, more like 10 and 4 and 6 and 2
    and 8....we went to the hospital Tuesday morning at 6:00am.  I was 
    dialated to 5 and 100% effaced.  We took the epidural immediately!!
    I was so pooped out from not having any sleep that I just couldn't
    handle the contractions anymore.  We spent another 14 hours trying to
    get her to come down and had no luck.  We dialated up to 8, my bag of
    waters burst and we shrunk back down to 6.  
    
    The doctor thought my pelvic area was to small for her, which was part
    of the problem.  When they took her by c-section at 9:06 (birth time),
    they discoverd that the cord was wrapped around her neck once and tight
    around her body...she was pretty much harnessed in.  Her head had
    started to mold but she couldn't make any progress because of the cord.
    There were some heart discellerations during the monitoring, but
    nothing to cause them any alarm.
    
    Anywho, I am in heaven and this baby girl is the most wonderful gift
    we have ever been blessed with.  Thank God for IVF and all the other
    wonderful procedures that help infertile women bring children into
    their life!
    
    We wondered if they could have mixed up the petri dishes, but her daddy
    has an unmistakable dimple in the middle of his chin...Chelsea Rose has
    a dimple too!!
    
    Congrats to all the other May moms who have had their babies and to
    those who will be delivering very soon!
    
    ...Lori
                                    

    Lori,
    
    I have been waiting for this note.  CONGRATULATIONS!!!!  You give me
    hope.
    
    Cathryn

    WELCOME CHELSEA ROSE !!!!!!!!!!!

    Lori,
    
    Congratulations and good wishes on the birth of your daughter,
    Chelsea Rose.
    
    
    Bernie

    Hi,
    
    I'm another May mom that went early. I went on maternity leave May
    11th, and Kevin Matthew decided to be born 2 am. on May 13th. He
    was due on the 26th, but I was happy to have him early. He weighed
    in at 6 lbs, 12 ozs. and was 19 1/2 inches long. He is doing great!
    And his big brother Chris loves him very much. He wants to hold
    him, and kiss him all the time.
    
    -Sheila
    

    
    Congrats!  
    
    I go on maternity leave June 10th... and would LIKE to be early, altho,
    since we just moved, I have NOTHING ready yet!!
    
    
    tick tock... watch the clock.
    
    Jamd
    

    Has anyone heard from Monica?  She was supposed to be induced May 9th?
    Was she?  How did it go?  It's been weeks and I can't wait to hear!
    Monica... I hope you are just too busy to write!
    

    Monica had a girl, right on schedule!  There have been a bunch of notes
    somewhere congratulating her!

re: .81

see 12.12 et seq.

Clay

    Re .79
    
    My son Neel was also born on May 13th, at 9:14am. He was 23 days early
    and he weighed 6lbs 13oz and was 19.5 inches long.
    
    Looks like we have babies with similar statistics.
    
    Congratulations to all new Moms.
    
    Shaila

    Nathaniel was born May 28, via c-section, at 7 lbs 2 oz, 19.5 inches.  
    
    All doing well, though my next stop is to find notes on breast feeding,
    which is not a piece of cake at least for the milk provider (nathaniel
    seems happy as a little clam).
    
    Daniela at 2 years 8 months has learned to sing to the baby while
    nursing, and to help with the burping.  Both of these are preferable to
    the early hair pulling.  Guess that's another note I need to find or
    start  -- toddler management while an infant is around.  

RE: .28

>    I recall in the last volume we had a lengthy discussion about 
>    the external manipulation method (after reading THOSE notes I don't
>    want to experience that). Perhaps someone can recall where the
>    discussion was?

How can I find this discussion?

................beth

    PARENTING_V3, note 219, "I need my baby to turn"
    

    We are 3 weeks away from the due-date now. Helen had an ultra sound on 
    Monday, the baby is still breech and our hospital has a policy
    of no external manipulation to turn it.  
    
    The consultant wants to know what we want for the birth. The options are 
    either go for a caesarian with epidural or full anasthetic,
    or go for a trial of labour with an emergency caesarian as back up.
    
    Helen doesn't want (at the moment) to have an epidural, as she once 
    underwent a lumbar puncturewhich she found most unpleasant. The trouble is,
    is that if we go for a trial of labour without epidural, any c-section 
    would have to be under full anasthetic as there wouldn't be time to 
    administer the epiduarl. However we've heard that to have an epidural 
    makes it alot more difficult to know when to push, which potentially
    might complicate a vaginal breech birth (and therefore increasing the need 
    for a c-section etc.)
    
    The baby is average size with an above average (but still 'normal') sized 
    head. What are the chances of it turning naturally before its due,
    and what are the chances of having a sucessful vaginal delivery of a 
    breech baby?
    
    Above all (obviously) the aim is for a healthy mother and a healthy baby, 
    but within those parameters, the ideal would be for a vaginal
    delivery with pain control other than epidural.
    
    All advice/experience welcome!
    
    Andy (who's a bit worried)
    
                     

RE: .89

> our hospital has a policy
> of no external manipulation to turn it

Is that because they feel it is too risky?  Or that
it is of no benefit?

..............................beth

    Have you explored going to another doctor just for the turning
    procedure?

    One of my friend had external manipulation done to turn her breach baby
    (her first child). She explained that some doctors won't do this
    due to the risk of the umbilical cord wrapping around the babies neck.
    Also, some babies 'prefer' certain positions and the doctor couldn't 
    guarantee that, once turned, the baby would stay in the head-down
    position. I think she mentioned that some doctor's might make a 
    distinction with attempting this on a first baby vs. subsequent
    pregnancies. Not sure why, but maybe it has something to do with how
    maleable the mom's uterus? 

	There is an article in the May issue of PARENTS magazine
	by a woman who had a successful vaginal delivery of a
	breech baby.

	The baby was butt-down and engaged, with his legs straight
	up in front of him (pike position).  

	Karen

    This is my concern as well, but I have 2 1/2 more months to go.
    
    Our lamaze instructor told us last night that she has seen
    babies that have turned even during labor!  She also said
    there is no guarantee that the baby will stay turned, if
    they successfully turn it.
    
    She advised me that it's harder to deliver a breech baby if it's
    a first baby.  I will probably not have any trouble since this
    is my 3rd and everything has already been stretched out.
    
    She also knew of a woman that had an ultrasound showing a breech
    baby and when she came in to the hospital a week later in labor,
    the baby had turned and was engaged.  
    
    Basically, I was told, don't worry about it until the time comes.
    
    I wouldn't recommend going with an epidural since if there has been
    any surgery or anything, there could be some scar tissue that the
    epidural won't get to and then if you do end up with a c-section,
    that part of the uterus that isn't numb, will be felt!
    
    Good luck!

RE: .92

>    One of my friend had external manipulation done to turn her breach baby
>    (her first child).

Was it successful?

....................beth

    Thanks for your replies.
    
    It is our first baby.
    
    The hospital won't turn babies because they are concerned about risk of
    damage (they mentioned bruising).
    
    I don't know how changing doctors for the turning, would fit into the
    NHS way of doing things in Britain. I suspect neither the current
    doctor (who Helen is very happy with) or the other doctor (who would be used
    for the turn but not follow it thru'), would be very happy. And I
    suppose we're trusting the hospital for everything else, so we should
    take their advice. Still, its worth asking about.
    
    We sometimes get a 'Parents Magazine', I hope its the same as .93
    mentioned, as our baby is in the 'pike' position as well.
    
    Hoping it'll turn at the last moment,
    Andy

    RE: .95'2 request about whether my friend's external manipulation was
    successful...
    
    Yes, my friend's child was successfully turned, stayed in the new
    position, and was delivered non-surgically. This was done 8 years ago
    at Emerson Hospital in Concord, MA (not sure which OB/GYN).

    Forgot to mention...now that I think about it, I think my friend said
    that it hurt quite abit when they did the external manipulation (can't
    remember if she described it or I imagined it, but I picture a doctor
    and nurse pushing on your pregnant belly).  She wasn't a happy camper
    that day, but in retrospect, felt good about her decision since it
    spared her some surgery. 

    Our daughter was breech several weeks before due date, our physicians
    and hospital do not perform external manipulation.  For what it's 
    worth, our LaMaze instructor (Labor/Delivery RN) suggested I 
    get down on "all fours" on the floor, then put my head down on 
    the floor and raise my butt up in the air, twice a day for 15 mins.
    Perhaps a coincidence, but she flipped within the week!  I distinctly
    remember when she did her somersault.  Our instructor said she
    wouldn't/couldn't guarantee any change in position, but you never
    know, wouldn't hurt the baby or me, etc.  I have since suggested
    the same thing to 3 friends, all of whom followed this and had 
    babies who flipped.
    
    PS: Went through 24+ hours labor, she never dropped and ended up
    with a C anyway!  No guarantees, that's for sure, but we tried, 
    and when all's said and done, we were blessed with a healthy 
    gorgeous little girl.

I don't understand the reasoning behind "if we go for a trial of labour 
    without epidural, any c-section would have to be under full anasthetic 
    as there wouldn't be time to administer the epiduarl."

Unless the baby or mother are in distress, isn't there always time to
administer an epidural?  

    I was born breech (I think they just didn't know), and came out feet
    first.  With me I brought a few of my mother's insides, and she had to
    have major repair surgery afterwards.  She had one more baby, and they
    told her that she couldn't carry any more because of all the damage my
    birth had caused.
    
    This may be a more "drastic" case, but just to point out a potential
    concern.
    
    As for the c-section.  I had 2, the first was a spinal, the second an
    epidural.  I'd opt for the spinal again ANY day.  A previous noter
    indicates that scar tissue isn't numbed by an epidural - I'd like to
    second that notion, as with the epidural and my second delivery, it
    sure FELT like I could feel every bit of what was going on!!
    
    If I recall correctly, the spinal took about 10 mins to take affect,
    the epidural was a little longer.  Also, the needle stays in your back
    for the epidural.  With a spinal it's one shot then lay still for 12-24
    hours.  As you can imagine, it's a bit uncomfortable to lay on your
    back with a needle in your back at the same time.  Being 9 mos pregnant
    doesn't help!!
    
    Are you SURE that those are your only 2 options?  Maybe if you could
    explain your concerns in more detail to your Dr, they could offer
    another alternative?
    
    I've also heard that standing on your head will help a baby turn.  I
    think it was something like 20 mins/day.  Of course she's going to need
    some help getting up and down (-: (-;
    

    
    
    Well I had an epidural for a C-section, and I had previously had tubal 
    surgery. The doctors chose to do the incision right on top of the
    old one so I would not have 2 scars. They also had to clear a lot of
    scar tissue left over from the old surgery. I certainly did not feel
    any pain at all, and no one mentioned anything about the epidural not
    working on scar tissue. I certainly don't mean to imply that those 
    noters who
    said that they felt pain are liars, but that each individual case is
    different, so the best might be to check with the doctor.
    
    Also, epidural only describes the means of administering the
    medication, and I believe that there are variation in the "cocktail" of
    drugs that they give for pain. So maybe some drugs work better than
    others. Mine had something in it that made me terribly itchy over my
    face and arms the next day.
    
    My first epidural was during labor, and I too thought that it was very
    unpleasant. A month later, I had to have a second one to try and relieve 
    back pain and
    I did not feel a thing. So maybe you can reassure your wife and tell
    her that it not always bad. I personally would prefer to go with the
    epidural and be awake during delivery than be under full anesthesia,
    but it's obviously a personal decision.
    
    Hope this might help,
    
    Patricia.

Elise turned twice during the final two weeks.  She
was head down, then turned butt down.  I remember it
well; it was a major painful event when she turned.
She didn't fit very well crosswise, and a foot stuck
out against my belly as she moved.  I swear you could 
count the toes.

At my next midwife appointment, they said not to worry,
if she turned once, she could do it again.  And she
did, about a week later.  Just as memorable, just as
painful.  She then engaged, and stayed that way.

So, I'd say don't worry until the end.  That baby may
not be done yet...

Pat

I have a friend who's a high risk OB.  He often turns breech babies.

    I put a description of my experience with turning in the last version
    of parenting, but I'll put another note here.  My second twin had been
    in the appropriate position for delivery, but folded in half when it
    came his turn to be born (sort of a reverse pike position).  They tried
    internal and external manipulation to get him to unfold since I'd just
    had his sister naturally, but it didn't work and they had to take him
    by C-section anyhow.  I won't go into the graphic details here, but
    let's say that even with the epidural which was enough so that I
    couldn't feel a thing when I delivered Jessica (including the pushing),
    I found the manipulation to be fairly painful.  And the end result was
    that they couldn't get him to unfold, so they had to deliver him by
    section.  And the epidural did not take high enough, so I still had
    to have general anesthesia on top of the epidural.  I can understand
    the hospital's concerns around bruising. My son looked like he'd just
    gone 5 rounds in the ring as he was very badly bruised.  His arms, legs
    and body were all black and blue and swollen, and he looked awful. 
    
    If I had to do it again, I wouldn't even try the manipulation.
    
    Cathy

Another concern our OB had with external manipulation was having the placenta
detach.

Patrick was breech right up until birth. He 'engaged' butt first. We chose
a 'C' section with an epidural. All went well except my wife had a major
headache as the epidural wore off. Once the IV meds were started it was
forgotten.

Another vote for c-section with epidural. Which takes priority, a healthy
mother and baby or experiencing a vaginal birth? Why take added risks.

Chris

    
    
    My girlfriend is in her last days of pregnancy, she is going 
    	to be induced on Monday, She has had a very hight blood 
    pressure 170/187.. 
    
    	The doctor is very concerned that the placenta will rupture,
    	Does any one why and how this would happen?
    
    	Thanks
    

    RE: epidurals...

    I had an epidural for both of my deliveries. Both very different.

    The first one was a breeze. No pain or discomfort during or after
    the insertion of the needle. In fact I can't believe they actually
    left the needle in the back, I didn't feel it either time and I
    don't remember them removing it. The only thing that bothered me
    was that I couldn't feel anything with my hands during delivery.
    When I quizzed the OB about it at my 6 week post-partum checkup,
    she almost had a cow. She asked why I didn't mention that my arms
    and hands were numb. I told her I didn't know it was a problem.
    She said the epidural had spread too high and it could have easily
    impaired my breathing or worse (heart maybe?). 

    My second epidural was horrible. The anethesiologist decided to
    'sneak it in me' during a transition contraction. BIG MISTAKE!
    I not only felt it, I jumped up in the air and began sobbing from
    the pain and shock of being sneaked up on. Now you have to understand
    that this pregnancy was already a difficult one, preterm labor 
    followed by pre-eclampsia, so that made me very edgey indeed, but
    I doubt the "sneaker" will try that again anytime soon. I think
    though that the bigger problem with this epi was that because of
    the pre-eclampsia, all of my joints were fluid filled which made
    finding a clear spinal path difficult. I remember asking the
    anethesiologist what that "cracking" sound was (after I had settled
    down from the sneak attack) and he said it was the needle trying
    to make it's way through swollen cartilage. What a god-awful sound 
    it was! Once the epidural was placed, no other problems followed. 
    
    RE: External Manipulation...
    
    Isn't this also called External Version?
    
    Jodi-

Re: All the replies on breech births/caesarians/epidurals.

Thanks for the info, there's certainly alot to consider. We're seeing the 
consultant on Thursday, & hope to have more info. then.

Andy

My twins settled themselves one breech and the other transverse. 
The hospital (Royal Berks. in Reading) arranged a pelvic X-ray to see if I 
could manage a breech birth. The answer was yes-ish.

In the event I had toxaemia and needed to have the babies quickly for everyones
health. I was given the option of epidural or full anasthetic and chose for a 
number of reasons (not least that an epidural lowers blood pressure and one of 
the symptoms of toxaemia was very high blood pressure) the epidural.

I was not in labour and so the insertion of the epidural  was easy and painless
(they gave me a local anaesthetic first). It numbed everything to perfection and 
I had no unpleasent after effects. My husband was able to accompany me into the
operating theatre and watch the babies being delivered. He was apprehensive about
this and was hiding with my "head end" behind a screen that is provided across 
the patient's chest. When the babies were about to be lifted out one of the
mid-wives told him to look and he did. He said it was wonderful.   

I was up and walking around two days after the section. 

Good Luck Andy.

    Helen had a scan yesterday (I went with her) and the good news is: Its
    Turned!!
    
    She never felt it at all and we had all these questions lined up for
    the consultant but we didn't have to ask in the end. The midwife said
    it must have happened while Helen was asleep. However, the head isn't
    engaged yet (16 days to go) so I suppose there's still a chance it
    might move back (please, no).
    
    Now, what else is there to worry about...

    College tuition!!!
    
    
    8^)
    
    Good news!!
    
    -sandy
    

It looks as if we're in for another final week of pregnancy. 5 days overdue & 
counting. No twinges, no dribbles, no nothing. We're both getting fed up now & 
want it over with. You don't suppose its got lost do you? :-) How do babies know 
when its time to get born? Should we be yelling thru' Helen's tummy saying "Come  
on, times up".

I know there's at least another week before induction will be discussed. 
Apparently the consultant will allow the baby to go 3 weeks over, if asked. I 
don't know if this was a (rather bad) joke by the mid-wife, but it didn't make 
us feel any better.

Andy

    I know the feeling of the WAIT!  My second was 12 days late.  As long
    as she feels good, just support her and hang in there.
    
    My sister is due today (she's the one who had the chicken pox in her
    first trimester) - however, in early May - she was beginning to dialate
    and having minor contractions.  They told to her hang on to the end of
    May when it would be safer for the baby.  Well, here we are end of June
    and still waiting - no signs of anything starting!!
    
    -sandy
    

    My first was 12 days late;my second, 3 days late.  
    
    Have sex! It helps....
    Another option is having your OB "rim your cervix", which is simply
    palpating it digitally - that too can trigger contractions.
    
    best of luck,
    

    I have also heard that nipple stimulation is sometimes used to trigger
    contractions.  I don't know anyone who had to resort to it, I just read
    up on it in the birth books. 
    
    My first was 7 days late. This one I hope comes on time or a little early. 
    But I at least want to get 1 weeks rest before the birth. I
    hate the thought's of leaving DEC on my last day and going into labor
    the day after, I've heard this happens alot. So you end up getting no
    rest before delivery and less STD!
    
    Sandy (5 weeks to go with #2!)
    
           

    	I was 14 days late with Spencer and 11 days late with Griffin.

    	Apparently I grow them big and well done.

    	I thought it would be easier waiting the second time. It was not.

    	All I can say is be kind to your wife, she is enduring her own
    private hell right now. (if she has not already delivered). Waiting
    and waiting and waiting (while you feel like an elephant wearing a
    tutu) is nothing short of interminable.
    	
    				Wendy

    We had to use nipple stimulation a week before my daughter was 
    born, they thought she was under fetal distress because she had
    not moved in hours when I was in for something else.  We had to
    sit in the hospital for hours, on a monitor waiting for movement.
    Finally the nurse came in, told us to get into the bed together,
    and take turns stimulating the nipples.  How embarrasing!  :-)
    They do not recommend doing this, unless you are close to your
    due date.  It did start small easy contractions, enough to make
    our daughter move, though.
    
    jc

    I useed nipple stimulation with Atlehi to try and get the contractions 
    coming/more regularly and stronger.  It did work and I had the shortest 
    labor I have had with any of the three kids.
    
    My water had broken without any signs of "good" contractions and there
    was no way I was going to sit around for days the way I did with
    Carrie.  Now that was stressful.    
    
    Meg  

    We've tried:
    
    Bumpy roads in the car/Guniness(1 half pint)/Gin&Tonic(1 glass)/walking
    into town (about 2miles horizontal, 300ft vertical)/sex/nipple
    stimulation(15 mins, 3 times a day for 9 days)/hot baths.
    
    And still nothing (now 9 days late)! The nipple stimulation does have an 
    effect, the baby tends to move quite alot, but the effect is tranistory. I 
    think we're just about resigned to inducement at 2 weeks. At least that
    gives us something to count down to.
    
    What's Atlehi?
    
    Still waiting,
    
    Andy (& Helen)

    My mother swears that I was delivered the day after she
    took some castor oil, and has told me that several of her
    friends tried the same method and succeeded.
    
    (yech, I'd rather have sex 8-) )
    
    Good luck!
    
    	Monica

    Yeah, Helen's been rather avoiding that one. I wonder why? :-{
    
    

    Atlehi is about a 7/12 week-old baby woman.  

    
    
    	I heard Raspberry Tea induces labor.  I drank a cup or two every
    	day that I was late (only 4 days) and a few days before.  I have
    	absolutely no idea if it worked - everyone else in my family is
    	usually one - two (closer to two) weeks overdue, though. 
    
    	FWIW, and it can't hurt...
    
        I sympathize with your wife.  When that due date comes and goes...
    	nothing could be more frustrating!
    	
    	Justine 
                                   

    I saw a TV news spot on a restaurant in Los Angeles that is booming
    since its discovery by pregnant woman.  Turns out that the rumor has
    gone out that a certain salad there induces labor.  It has goat cheese
    and a dressing with balsamic vinegar.  Otherwise, nothing unusual.
    
    The news team interviewed an obstetrician who managed to keep a
    straight face while considering if this salad might really work.  He
    granted the power of suggestion and was perhaps humble due to his many
    years in medicine.  He pondered if the balsamic vinegar might be
    efficacious...
    
    [For those inevitable questions, balsamic vinegar is aged in wooden
    kegs in Italy.  You can buy it in the imported food section of your
    grocery.  It is delicious, whether you're pregnant or not!]
    
    :-)
    
    Laura

    
    
    re: .126
    
    	It's The Coyote Restaurant and it's the romaine and watercrest
    salad.
    

    I had heard it was Pizza, maybe there's two places??
    
    Oh and you could also hope for a drop in Barometric pressure.  When the
    barometer drops, it sometimes induces labor.  In a blizzard it's always
    fun for those of us who work for ambulances.  In the summer we just
    keep the raincoat handy, since it usually happens in the midst of a
    mega-thunderstorm!
    
    Lyn

    
    >>Oh and you could also hope for a drop in Barometric pressure.  
    Gee Lyn, 
    That is not welcome news; low pressure is responsible for some of
    my more horrific migraines. I can't imagine the two things going
    on at once! And here I was saying that I would look forward to having
    a child the way nature intended next time (I've been induced twice)....
    
    Monica
    
    

    Well, at 6 1/2 months, I know that I'm getting tired of being pregnant,
    so I can't imagine going OVER, but I DO remember with my other two,
    after spending a few hours listening to them cry, I'd have given
    ANYTHING to be able to put them BACK!!  
    
    When you're pregnant, it also doesn't matter when the phone rings, it's
    easier to get just YOU in and out of the car/store, it's easier to feed
    the baby while it's still "taking up residence", and there aren't any
    messy diapers, and a LOT less sleepless nights.  You can spend HOURS in
    the shower/on the toilet if you like, your breasts don't leak all over
    the place now and aren't NEARLY as tender as they will be, and face it not 
    too many people would DARE to stop a VERY pregnant-looking woman in the
    mall, as opposed to just about every seemed to think they had the right
    to tell you you shouldn't bring a newborn to the mall.  (-;
    
    Maybe we should start a note - the benefits of "being pregnant" as
    opposed to having a newborn to deal with ....?!
    
    GOOD LUCK!!  I know I'm DYING to be "unpregnant", and there's this
    voice in the back of my head saying .... you're gonna be SORRY, you
    just Forget! (-:
    
    
    

    
    I am 36 weeks with #2.  I too am so tired of this pregnancy. The
    first time is great because everything is new and you are getting
    educated on pregnancy,labor & delivery. But after that, it just seems
    like your going through the motions. I am really looking forward to
    the birth of our baby, but I am not as into the whole thing as I was
    with #1.  Just eager for the whole process to be over.
    
    I suppose chasing a 3 yr old around the house is no help.  You can't
    relax like you did the first time. I remember I used to take a one hr
    nap everyday when I was pregnant with Danielle. This time I have not
    taken a nap at all in 8 months....no time.  
    
    I am also very nervous about delivering this time. I went through h*ll
    with the last labor (22 hrs) of hard slow progressing labor. I had a
    vaginal but came close to a section.  I think now, that "gee, I have to
    be able to beat that" if 2nd babies come quicker than 1st babies
    anything under 22 hrs for me I can handle.  
    
    the first time it was fear of the unknown....now it's "oh my god, I
    know what to expect!" more or less.....
    
    Sorry to ramble....
    
    Sandy

Sandy,
	I can really relate, I'm at 38 weeks and have been feeling like you
for awhile.  I also have a very active 3yr old!  My first was 2 weeks late with
41 hrs of labor that ended in a C-section, so like you said, anything would be
better :-)
	Ian was born in Feb., so I really think the heat and lack of sleep has
a lot to do with feeling miserable.

	Hang in there.........................Karen

    Re:-2 (Sandy)
    
    I know what you mean about getting no rest. BUt as far as the long
    labor goes...my first was about 27 hours long, back labor, slow
    progress and I came very close to a C-section. I was getting myself
    ready for a repeat with Neel (now 1 yr old) but with Neel labor was
    only 45 minutes long (very painful but short). Everyone was surprised
    that after Neel was born I was not tired at all and I was calling
    friends on the phone informing them about Neel's arrival (he was born
    over 3 weeks early). So second time labor could be short even if the
    first one was long.
    
    Hang in there.
    
    Shaila

My wife had "protracted labor" the first time, off and on for over 60 hours
with the first one....she was both tired and dehydrated when Madeline was
born, but was two weeks early....three months ago, she was overdue, was being
prepared to be induced and when in to spontaneous labor, 5 hours later we had
Gillian.  The difference....the first time she was flat on her back for a week.
The second time, she went home from the hospital the next day!

Best Wishes
Michael

I remember well entering a note about being pregnant for
the second time and getting little emotional support,
being afraid of labor (after all, I knew what it was
going to be like), dreading the sleepless nights,
wondering how in hell was I going to be able to keep
the toddler under control while carrying a tiny baby.

I mean, how do you grocery shop, when the baby is in
the cart, and the toddler is in the seat?  Where do
you put the groceries?  And when you're buying
diapers for two, that can fill a cart by itself.
And how do you fit the groceries in the car when the
whole backseat is taken by carseats?  (the answer, BTW,
is that you will find ways to cope, and within a few
weeks you'll be ok.)

I was *so* tired.  I was enormous, scared, and just
wanted the baby out so I could have my body back.

Well, here it is 8 months later.  Labor happened, 
I got a wonderful baby, and life went on.

Trust me.  You will get thru labor again, you will
stop being pregnant, you will get thru the sleepness 
nights, and you will look with awe at parents of 
*3* children.

Pat

    Pat,
    
    Actually I haven't thought about any of the "what do you do when..."
    that you mentioned after the baby comes. But now that you mention them
    oh my gosh! I forgot about all of that fun stuff.....one thing I think
    is that parenting the second time is easier because you are already a
    parent and know oh so well what to expect. I feel condfident on being a
    parent of a newborn and a 3 yr old. I have not yet had any doubts that 
    I could not handle it, but that may come after this one is born.
    
    Think of how many times we all told ourselves when the first was born:
    
    "How am I ever gonna take care of this little baby and work and grocery
    shop and clean and cook etc......"    We all survived it then and we
    will survive this time!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy, think about the fact that no matter what happened last 
    time (pain, for one thing). you were able to get through it,
    AND had a wonderful outcome to boot! Think of the delivery as 
    a badge of courage. I personally think it takes some to do this baby
    delivery thing. Focus on the happiness you had when everything was
    finished, and not what you had to do to get there!
    
    I looked forward to my second delivery a lot - but in my case it
    was 32 hours of induction to have a child I knew would be stillborn.
    So, I figured that THAT must be the worst there was, and I certainly
    was right. Charlotte was 3 pounds bigger than her brother, and I
    only had 9 hours of induction, and ripped much less. 
    
    Ya did it once....8-)
    
    Monica

    I've been noticing how many women deliver the day after they leave 
    work for their maternity leave.  With Johnathan, my due date was 
    10/31, DEC let me out on 10/17, and I delivered him on 10/18.  Same
    thing for my sister and many friends.  I wonder how much of it is 
    pyschological?  I got thinking about this after reading all the 
    previous replies about being overdue.  There are some disadvantages
    to going too early, too!  You miss out on some of your short-term
    disability time off, and generally you miss that time to prepare 
    and "nest".  So, there are pro's and cons to delivering early or
    late!
    

    re:-1
    Yah! I know what you mean about losing out on the 2 weeks - I lost out
    both times. Avanti was born the day after I started maternity leave and
    Neel was born over a 1 week BEFORE I started maternity leave.
    
    Oh well.
    
    Shaila

    I'm a "lost my 2 weeks of early std" mom.  I was 15 days early with my
    daughter, born less than 24 hours after I finished work.  In my case it 
    appears to be just something that happens in my family.  My mom had 3 kids
    and 3 times she never made it to her due date, the closest she ever got 
    was 10 days before.  

    I'm 35 weeks with my second and have a 20 month old at home.  I can
    certainly relate to how it feels to be overdue.  I went out on STD on
    September 19, due Oct. 6.  Ended up being induced on October 22nd and
    did require an emergency C-section. I would have preferred only one
    week off instead of 4 before the birth -- the waiting was awful.
    
    I am also finding the second pregancy much more uncomfortable and less
    exciting than the first.  Can't wait to get this over with at this
    point.  The heat wave doesn't help matters either!
    
    Good luck to all.
    Kathy

    Gee, is this where I get to brag that I never saw my Last 7 to 9 weeks
    of Pregnancy??  Since AJ needed out NOW due to distress the doctor did
    a general anesthesia c-section.  and had he not had the bowel defect he
    would have gone to the normal nursery and home in the usual 4 to 5
    days.
    
    Oh and my first pregnancy, which was an in utero loss was a Wonderful
    labor, I slept for 10 hours, rolled over  pushed twice and had a 5lb9oz
    baby with not even an incision.  I honestly can say I was disapointed
    when my doctor told me I had to have AJ by c-section, I wanted to
    labor again.  But to agree with some, the worst part of the experience
    was the epidural procedure, it HURTS!
    
    Lyn
    (who prefers labor over going to the dentist!)
     

    
    I am now down to 2 weks and 3 days till due date. The other day I held
    a 2 week old boy at a birthday party. That put everything into
    perspective, I instantly lost whatever nervousness I was feeling about 
    delivering again. I just couldn't believe how tiny he was, I looked at
    Danielle now 3, I said I can't remember you being this tiny. Then she
    asked if she could hold the baby, she said "mommy, my hands are big,
    see"  I almost burst into tears. She was so good with him. I just hope 
    her reaction is the same with her new sibling.
    
    So, I guess that holding that little newborn really took away alot of
    the anxiety I have been feeling these last few weeks. I now am not
    scared of laboring again, I'm very much looking forward to it. 
    
    Babies are wonderful!
    Sandy

    I'm now less than two weeks away from my due date (August 2nd) with #3.
    Since the first two were late (over 2 weeks), the doctors don't expect
    this one to come early either (or on time, for that matter !).  I'm
    not looking forward to another 3 1/2 weeks of this....
    
    I'm looking forward to not being pregnant, but I'm really NOT looking
    forward to "newborn hell".  Maybe this one will be the easiest of the
    three :-) .
    
    -Joy
    

    I'm at 33 weeks now, and REAL tired of being pregnant .... for the past
    month or so, my ankles have been real swollen.  The Dr. says "It's the
    pressure of the uterus" and there's not much that can be done.  But now
    it's getting a lot worse.  My ankles are swollen and the bottoms of my
    legs, right up to my knees.  My feet are so puffy that it literally
    HURTS to bend my ankles.  And my legs ache in a weird/funny way - it
    feels like all the veins in my legs are bruised.  They're very tender
    to touch, and a little pressure is enough to make me cry out.  I never
    had ANY swelling with the first two, so this is quite an unwelcome
    change!  Any time I mention anything about it at the Dr's they just
    look at my feet say "Yup!" (as in that's normal), and carry on with the
    rest of the visit.  
    
    My blood pressure has been normal to low right along.  Has anyone else
    had this "vein-pain"?  Each day it seems to get a little higher in my
    legs.  It was just ankles, then a little of my leg, then half way up
    the calfs, now it's up about to my knees.  BTW, no amount of
    sitting/resting/putting my feet up, makes my feet ANY less swollen,
    they're huge elephant-ankles day and night.  
    
    Any thoughts??  I'll be SO glad when this child is born, even if he
    DOES scream all the time (-:  
    

    I had one teeny-tiny varicose vein just above my knee that was 
    very painful. It surprised me that I could walk on a leg that 
    hurt so much. (This was at nine weeks, too). The dr. put me on
    one baby aspirin a day. It worked beautifully. 
    
    (I'm not suggesting you take it however, without consulting your dr).
    
    Sue
    

    Patty,
    
    I'm now at 38 weeks and have been having the same problems
    with my legs.  I'm also getting charlie horses in my right leg,
    arch of my foot and my big toe!  I was concerned with the swelling
    as well.  I thought I was developing toxemia, my mother got it
    with me.  The nurses told me the same thing, Yup!  I didn't let
    up, I let them know I was really concerned about it and then
    they explained what they look for, the other signs of toxemia
    are higher blood pressure (more than 15 increase), protein in
    the urine.  As long as all that checks out, it's not toxemia.
    
    I'm also having sharp pains at the top of my legs and figure
    it's the baby pinching a nerve in my back.  I usually rub my
    back or tummy to get the baby to move and then it stops.
    
    Believe me, I know what you're going through.  I'm just glad
    I'm going in this friday to be induced and it will all be
    over!
    
    It will be over for you soon enough!
    
    Good luck!
    
    Peggy
    

    re: .145
    
    I had this the last 2 months, our daughter was born end August, I
    always swell in the summer heat, but 7-9 months pregnant made it that
    much worse.  One thing that helped, while I worked outside the home was
    to leave bed, immediately take a shower and put on support pantihose
    right out of the shower, not to be removed till I was home again.  When
    I got home I would remove the hose when it was too hot to keep them on,
    always putting on thick cotton running socks and good (supportive)
    running tennis shoes.  For some reason, while my legs and ankles were
    supported the swelling wasn't as bad, if I cheated and put on sandals
    or boat shoes, I was quite swollen and it bothered me a great deal.
    
    Good luck, by the way my salt intake through that period was quite low
    so I'm not sure that there was any contribution from that.  Best
    wishes, hope this is gone soon.

    I have been fortunate not to swell much at all during the summer heat. 
    I am 34 weeks now and gained 7 lbs at my last visit which surprisingly
    the doctor said was fine due to it all went to the baby.  I just hope I
    don't have another month like last; it was hard to stay away from the
    ice cream in the real hot weather.
    
    I have found the my feet hurt regardless of what I do during the day,
    what I wear and how much I am on them.  At 5:00 p.m. the little buggers
    are throbbing and nothing helps them but laying completely flat.  I
    can't even sit down to eat dinner sometimes because they throb so much
    from not being elevated.
    
    I also find the baby is kicking more and more which is increasingly
    uncomfortable.  I don't mean the little love kicks either.  You see my
    stomach rolling around and can feel the bulges through any clothing. 
    My husband doesn't know what to make of it; I think he thinks it hurts
    me which sometimes it does.  The baby feels so high lately that its
    making me short of breath and I find myself sometimes faint because I
    can't get enough oxygen to my system.
    
    The other thing that I noticed is the veins in my stomach and breasts
    are really really blue.  They do not look varicose and do not protrude
    but you can see them so clearly.  
    
    Any ideas on how to make the baby stop kicking so much? :) I know, I
    will miss the activity when they are out of my body.  Right now, I
    can't think of much else.
    
    cj

    RE:  Baby kicking
    
    Rock in a rocking chair.  It worked everytime for me when I was
    pregnant with the second, who seemed to be kicking with 10 feet.  I
    thought I was having twins!

    I need some quick reassurance and wasn't sure where exactly to put
    this but thought this might be a good spot!   I am expecting my second
    baby - infact my due date was last Wednesday.  Today, I had a dr.
    appt.  and the internal exam he did seemed to be extremely painful.
    He said I was a couple of centimeters dialated.  Anyway, after he
    left the room and I stood up, I noticed that I was bleeding.  This
    scared me to death since this never happened with my first baby.
    I called for the nurse, and she said not to worry - that the doctor
    had probably just irritated my membranes to get labor going.  Now
    this worries me!  He has said all along that he would not let me
    go more than a week overdue and he would induce labor if necessary.
    I have argued this point throughout the pregnancy believing that
    unless the baby is under stress that I wanted to let nature take
    it''s course.  I'm concerned now because I feel like maybe he did
    something during the exam today and didn;t tell me!  Has anyone
    had bleeding following an internal exam this late in a pregnancy -
    and should I be concerned about such things as risk of infection??
    I am not bleeding now, but have a very light pinkish staining -
    also, no consistent or painful contractions yet.   I guess I'm
    mostly just looking for confirmation that bleeding following an
    exam is normal and not a cause for concern!  Thanks.   Lila
     

    Yes, bleeding following an internal exam is normal. The blood vessels
    around the cervix are now quite close to the surface and easily
    irritated. And unless he put prostoglandin gel on your cervix or
    broke your water, I really don't think he could have influenced
    delivery *all* that much. Maybe a little. Relax, and good luck!
    
    Sue
    

I was also dilated (for several weeks!) before I delivered.  I often stained
slightly after an internal exam.  The doctor usually mentioned that I might
see this and that it was normal.  I think they explained that there are lots
of blood vessels near the cervix that are somewhat weak, and it's very easy
to cause some slight bleeding during an internal exam.  I believe they also
told me that I shouldn't see bleeding after 24 hours.

If it continues into tomorrow afternoon or if it gets heavier instead of
decreasing, then you might want to call the doctor's office (even if only to
relieve your mind).  But I hope it reassures you some to know that someone else
has experienced this too.

- Deb

    
    This happened to me too. I was in labor and they did an internal to
    see how far along I was. When the doctor was done I went to the
    bathroom and I was bleeding. I mentioned it to the doctor/nurse cause
    I thought maybe this was my "bloody show", but they said, nope, it was
    just from the exam. As said before, if it should continue or get worse
    call your doctor, otherwise it's normal.
    
    Patty

    Sue and Deb - thank you so much for your quick responses!  I feel
    much better now knowing that the bleeding is normal.  I'll try
    to relax!!   Thanks again.  Lila
    

    notes collision!  Thanks for your reply too, Patty!   Lila
    

    Lila,
    
    If he hurts you during an internal exam, raise heck!  I fought with my
    last OB over this, because she was trying to surreptitiously strip my
    membranes. This can open an infection path, as well as potentially tear
    your cervix.  
    
    I don't want to scare you, but some Dr's don't like to let nature take
    her course and this can become a complication.  It is also very painful
    
    Meg
     

<    If he hurts you during an internal exam, raise heck!  I fought with my
<    last OB over this, because she was trying to surreptitiously strip my
<    membranes. 

That's what I was about to talk about, Meg!  Thank you for the additional info
on it.

When Shellie was in labor for a day and a half, they didn't count it as 
labor because though the pains were there, she wasn't dialating.  Finally
the midwife said she would strip the membrames to bring on (productive)
labor.  It hurt, but was effective.  What she did was to put her finger
deep inside of Shellie, swiped her finger around in a circle, and broke
all of the little connections to the bag of water that she could reach 
(isn't that the right explanation, Meg?). It worked, and we had the baby 
about 12 hours later. 
     
      Carol 

    Carol - this is what I thought he may have done because this is what
    he had said he would do if I went a week overdue (stripping the 
    membranes) - my Dr. is on call this weekend and I almost got the
    feeling he wanted to induce for convenience.  The risk of infection
    is what scares me - I don't know what to watch for - the bleeding has
    stopped and still no consistent contractions.  Meg - is there any
    way that I would know if indeed he attempted to strip the membranes
    during my exam??   And if he did strip the membranes and I don;t go
    into labor within the next 24 hours, wouldn't that increase the
    risks of infection?  Has anyone ever had a Dr. do this procedure
    without their knowledge - it seems to me that he would have at least
    forwarned me if there were potential dangers?    Thank you for your
    help.  Lila
    

    Lila,
    
    hopefully this is all pretty well a moot point for you by now.
    
    Pretty much, as long as your bag of waters in intact, you are still
    fairly safe.  The infection path has been opened somewhat, and there is
    a potential increased risk for infection, but for most people this
    shouldn't be a problem.  I have major allergies to many antibiotics, so
    any added infection risk is something I am dead set against.  
    
    If your temperature starts to rise, then I would be concerned about an
    infection.   
    
    Carol,
    
    Shat the midwife at your hospital did can be acceptable as Shellie was
    already in active labor and was in a place where she could be watched
    carefully.
    
    Meg

    Hi folks - well I still have not got into labor!  So, apparently, the
    internal exam was just rough enough to cause some bleeding of the
    cervix - I only showed some light brown streaks in the discharge
    until late Friday night.   I appreciate the feedback I got here and
    thru mail.   My next appointment is Monday, and I'm sure if this
    baby hasn;t come on it;s own by then then the doctor will try
    stripping the membranes to get labor going.  My main concern was
    that he might have done that without letting me know (Yes, I don't
    have complete trust in my doctor but that;s another story!) - so
    anyway, hopefully my next entry will be a birth annoucement!  Thanks
    again for your help.   Lila
    

    My doctor stripped the membranes without telling me, I was 
    dialated at 2cm at the time and 2 wks before the due date.
    I didn't realize what he had done until I read about it later. 
    After he did it I lost the mucous plug and had some pinkish bleeding.
    The baby was born 2 days later with no problems (But I would have
    preferred that he ask me first!!!!!!!!!)
    Carol

The midwife stripped my membranes for the second
baby when I was 3 days late.  She asked first, and
was willing to skip if I felt I wanted to.  It
didn't hurt internally, but my vaginal opening took
a hit as she attempted to reach my cervix.

I *really* have a hard time with doctors/midwives
doing stuff without discussing it first.  This is
*MY* body.

Pat

    Heck, I'd call it malpractice when a doctor performs a procedure
    without the patient's knowledge and consent.
    
    Jane

    Hi All,
    
    I just noticed brown and red/pinkish spots this morning and I am 36
    going on 37 weeks along.  I called the doctor and they seemed less then
    concerned and told me that my cervix was starting to thin and it sounds
    like the baby might be a bit early however, they did not ask that I
    come in and get an internal exam.  I also noted that I have started
    mild contractions but nothing timeable and definately not braxton
    hicks.  My doctor is on vacation till Monday and they did say not to
    exercise until Monday (I do swimming) and I believe its because it
    might start contractions.  I am still working and worry that the baby
    is coming sooner and they aren't monitoring as closely as they should
    just because the dr. is on vacation.
    
    Is this normal to have this show this early?
    
    cj
    

    Well, my sister had contractions for a few weeks before her baby was
    born...in fact they considered induction because he was taking his own
    sweet time.
    
    Try not to worry, but take things easy.  If you are really concerned,
    tell the nurse you want to see someone NOW.  It is your choice, not
    theirs!
    
    -sandy
    

It can be frustrating when people don't appear to be listening to your
concerns.  As -.1 said, if you're really upset, do let them that know that
you want to see someone ASAP.  

From what I've read, loosing the mucous plug (which is what the "bloody show"
is) can precede labor by as little as a few hours, or as much a couple of 
weeks.  And, if you're at 37 weeks, that's considered a term (vs. pre-term)
baby.  Personally, I didn't have a bloody show until about 30 minutes after I
started labor (with fairly strong, regular 5-minute contractions), so I'm not
much help there...

Hang in there -- you're getting close!  It's just frustrating not to know
how close "close" is :-)

- Deb

    
    With my first I lost my plug two weeks before he was born and I had
    those awful contractions for two weeks prior to his birth.
    
    With the second, it was almost the same story except that I also had
    the "bloody show" (one of my favorite terms :-() eleven days before.
    
    It is difficult to wait not knowing, in fact, it will probably drive
    you nuts (as it did me) but hang in there. Your baby will come when it
    is ready.
    
    				Wendy

Well, I've read all the replies in here on breech and it seems most
common that either the baby turned in time, or c-sections were done after
an attempt to deliver vaginally didn't work out...

So, I'm looking for any more stories of successful versions (external
manipulation to get the baby to turn head-down), or "unsuccessful", if
that applies.  Also, any info. about vaginal births of breech babies
would be helpful.  I've read all about the risks of a foot/leg coming
through the cervix too early and possibly causing the head to get caught
(believe me, I wouldn't get that far if I knew this was footling!) but
am still curious to hear first-hand from anyone with experience.

I'm in the 38th week and have a version scheduled for the 7th (if the
"excercises" (lying on back with hips raised 15 mins/twice a day) haven't
coerced the baby to flip.  I'm not afraid of a c-section, but have been
waking up thinking about this procedure (the version) for hours the past
few nights since I found out (via ultrasound) the position, so it is
obviously causing me some anxiety :-{

Other facts - it's my second child, first was born naturally at 9lbs.14oz
, so theoretically the birth canal should be "stretched" fairly well;
I don't know the type of breech yet (frank, footling, etc.- dr. will
check again before beginning the version) but this baby has "preferred"
this position since around 22 weeks; the legs/butt are not "engaged" yet;
the ultrasound last week showed the head/abdomen to measure right on
target at 37 weeks (but the legs measured for 40 weeks), so it doesn't
"appear" to be an oversized child (yet!!). 

Most everyone I talk to says just "don't worry" and wait it out since
they or someone they know had a baby that turned "at the last minute",
but that's easier said than done at this point!  I know I have the option
to skip the manipulation, and it does bother me to think it might bruise
the baby (previous reply - but that was a case of twins) or tangle the
cord, etc. etc.  The procedure itself sounds fairly straightforward -
I get an injection of a drug which causes the uterine wall to loosen
a bit, then the dr. uses her hands to try to press the head down and the
butt up. This all takes place at the hospital, and a fetal monitor is on
at all times to track the reaction - if any signs of distress appear,
they whisk you off to O.R. for a c-section (have to pack the bag "just
in case" although she said she's never had that happen yet). 

Anyone out there with more light to shed on this subject?  Thanks for
listening!

-Cori

    Hello Cori - your note was brought to my attention as I had a breech
    baby.
    
    Michael was born on January 19, 1992 - I've since had a girl :^)
    At the last checkup, he was in the head-down position.  My doctor said
    that it was very unlikely that he would turn as there was no room.
    Three weeks before his due date, I went into labour.  I had been in the
    hospital room for 3 hours when a nurse came to check on me.  The labour
    pains at this point were coming one after another.  The nurse inquired
    the time I had arrived and if it was my first.  She told my husband
    that I still had a good 12 hours to go and when I heard that I became
    so discouraged that I asked for the epidural.
    
    The nurse had me climb into bed and checked to see how dilated I was.
    She exclaimed "My goodness your fully dilated; I can feel the sex!".
    I'll never forget what she said - I became very upset as I had hoped for
    a natural birth and she had spoiled the "it's a boy" moment.  Anyway,
    they wisked me into the operating room, inserted an IV (they made a
    mess of that).
    
    The doctor on-call wanted to perform a C-section but I wanted to try
    delivering the baby naturally.  She agreed to let me try; quickly did
    an episiotomy (sp?), and with the guidance of the nurse, I pushed and
    breathed as told.  His penis was the first thing to show (that's when 
    the choice of Peter went out the window), then his bum, the body simply 
    followed.  He was terribly bruised from the birth, the poor little
    thing.
    
    An hour after the delivery I was up and about holding my son and
    simply beaming with joy as was my husband.  The whole experience was
    very terrifying.  I was very upset that they did not monitor me during
    my labour; they should have discovered he was breech.  Having had
    a second I KNOW they left me at the last stage for too long - I'm
    sure he could have been delivered an hour or two earlier.  
    
    In your case, the medical staff will be prepared for your delivery,
    that's great.  That's a big difference.
      
    My second delivery, one year later, was with a midwife (I wanted
    someone with me at ALL times).  She was excellent!!  It took three
    hours, from the very first cramp to delivery.  
    
    I think a breech birth the second time around would be easier.
    If I had the choice between a C-section & a natural birth, I would
    not hesitate for the later.  The only problem is the child can get
    stuck in the birth canal, then they have to push the infant back up
    and perform the C-section.  There is also the possibility of having
    the cord in the way.  I leave these decisions in the hands of the
    doctor taking care of me; I feel they should know best.
    
    If I were to compare the two births, the pain was pretty much the
    same, the episiotomy is necessary and helps.  I did not have to
    push harder or longer; although I did have broken blood vessels on
    my face with the first.  I was told that I was holding my breath.
    
    How I wish I was pregnant again :^)  it's a wonderful feeling.
    I wish you the very best.  
    
    Patricia

    Hi I'm just a little over 38 weeks.  I've been having brackson hicks
    contractions for a few weeks now.  Last week at my doctor's appointment
    I wasn't dialated yet but my cervix was very thinned out.  This is my
    first baby, and I was wondering how close I might be.  My actual due
    date is November 22.  
     	Last night I was up all night with contractions (mostly in my
    lower back) They were about 2 minutes long, and were about 30 
    minutes apart.  Does this mean I'm really close?  Everyone seems
    to thimk I'm going to be early because the baby dropped about 4
    weeks ago.
    
    	Well I'm all packed already, but does anyone think I should
    start leaving my bag in the car incase I go into labor at work.
    
    
    Maria

    with the first its always difficult to say - if you've read
    some of the other stories and spoken to others, you know that 
    dialation, thinning, contractions, can all be signs but these
    signs can go on for 1 day to three weeks without visible progress.
    
    Just relax and let things work as they should; consider getting
    more sleep (if possible!).
    
    The only things you'd really need in a hurry would be those things
    you were packing for the labour itself. It couldn't hurt to keep them
    with you, but remember if you really are in labour at work and 
    need to get to the hospital from there you probably will need someone
    else to drive!
    
    Best of Luck Maria, keep us informed!
    
    Monica
    

My baby dropped at 27 weeks and my cervix was also about 50% effaced (thinned)
at this time.

I was *positive* I was going to deliver at least 2 weeks early.

And I did deliver early -- by one hour :-)

- Deb

    My sister inlaw is due, just about any day now.  Good new is they have
    been monitoring her very closely since late October, and they are 99%
    sure its a boy, she is thrilled.
    
    My question is to anyone out there who might have had a cyst or
    abnormal growth discovered during pregnancy.  She has been out of work
    and extremly limited in activities since just before Halloween. 
    Aparently she woke up one moring in extreme pain, but no spotting. She
    called he OB who sent her to the hospital for an exam.  Result was she
    was not in labor, but had a large cyst.  (Personally I'm not too
    convinced it wasn't at one point another baby, but that just a personal
    thing, also based on fact there are twins on both sides)  She was sent
    home to lay on her right side, due to the cyst's position and take
    tylenol with codiene every 4 hours for pain.  
    
    The way she described it the cysts fills up with "fluid", who know
    could be amniotic, could be blood, and the empties itself, which is
    when the pain occurs.
    
    Since that point there has been an off again, on again thing of
    C-section versus natural delivery.  Has anyone delivered knowing there
    was a cyst in with the baby.  She has been told it will have to be
    removed, but not until at least 6 weeks after the baby, and definitely
    not at the delivery time due to risk of hemorage. 
    
    I have a sincere concern that she may hemorage during delivery, if the
    cyst were to rupture or discharge it's fluid, plus I have concern that
    she has been taking pain killers for several months now.  She is also a
    smoker, but that's just another rat hole.
    
    This is her second pregnancy, she had trouble conceiving, could it have
    anything to do with a clinical abortion 6 or 8 years ago?
    
    Lyn

    RE: Cysts.
    
    My sister-in-law had cysts during her pregnancy. They were discovered
    and were quite large in her 3rd month of pregnancy. She had some pain
    that took her to the Drs and ultrasound a couple of times but she
    delivered a healthy 7lber 4 days before due date.

    I thought I would sort of close the loop  on this reply.  My sister
    inlaw gave birth to a healthy boy, Ryan Joseph last Friday afternoon. 
    She did have a c-section, they were able to view the cyst, but did not
    remove it, she will have that done in 6 to 8 weeks.  He water broke
    during the storm Thursday, but managed to hold off until nearly
    midnight before venturing out.  There was muconium in the water when it
    broke.  The doctor decided arount 3pm Friday that a C-section was in
    order considering everything, cyst, muconium, failure to dialate oh
    and the best reason of all, the doctor wanted to head off to the 
    SLOPES for the weekend!  In any case mom is sore, but both aer 
    doing fine!
    
    Lyn

    Oh and one more of those dumb questions...  What is PUPPS?
    it seems to be some kind of an all over the body rash, that occurs in
    the last trimester to first time mothers.  My sister inlaw has been
    covered with this rash for the last couple weeks, but now is not sure
    if she's too sore to scratch, or too itchy to care that it hurts!
    
    Lyn

    See note 470.*
    
    Jodi-

    I WANT TO KNOW IF EVERY PREGNANT WOMAN HAS TO BE TESTED FOR
    THIS DISEASE,SYPHILLIS AND AIDS

    Which disease? In the UK, no-one 'has' to be tested for anything they
    don't want to be tested for. We decided not to have the amnio-centesis
    (sp.?) test for downs syndrome.
    
    Andy

    I was told that it was required to be tested for both.  However you 
    do not recieve the results unless you request them.  The data is for 
    statistical purposes.  The same thing happens when you get blood work
    done for a marriage license.  
    
    lori

re:  .179--.181

I'd guess that this varies from state to state in the U.S.A. and certainly, 
as .180 points out, from country to country.

Clay

    I understood there was a Law, (state or federal I'm not sure which)
    that required the baby be tested at birth for AIDS, if not more.  For
    obvious reasons, and as a parent, I too would want to know if my new
    baby was sharing the nursery, and nurse's who don't necesarily change
    protective clothing between handling newborns.
    
    I think the hospital is required to tell at least the mother if not
    both parents if the baby tests positive.  I think the testing was
    started around 1987.  I think they may also test some if not all babies
    for drugs and alcohol.  I'm not sure if this is for every baby, or just
    those who appear to be at risk.
    
    I suspect the March of Dimes or any hospital with a good NICU could
    fill in the blanks here.

    Lynne,
    
    As far as I know it isn't law, and Newborn screens vary from state to
    state.  last year, the hospitals in CS were routinely screening for HIV, 
    but not giving the results to parents, unless they asked.  (Makes sense
    to me.......NOT!)  My OB asked if I felt that I needed an HIV screen
    along with the usual prenatal blood testing, and made it clear it was
    optional.  
    
    meg

    So, what I'm hearing is that they test you and your child for HIV and
    if you have it they don't tell you?????  Does not make any sense to me. 
    

    Three years ago when my first was born, they tested babies in NH for
    HIV and reported results anonomously to the state....It was a way to
    get statistics on the disease.  If parents wanted to have the results,
    they were required to have the child retested as the first test did not
    have any name related to it.
    
    I have no clue what they do now.
    
    

My understanding is similar to -.1.  I went to a talk by a nurse from the 
Immunology Clinic at UMass Medical Center last month.  From what I understood
from her, in MA, all newborns are tested for several diseases, including
HIV.  The testing is anonymous in that once the blood from the newborn is
drawn, it can never be associated with that infant.  

She told us that in 1993, there were 50 infants born in Worcester who tested 
HIV positive at birth, but that only 12 mothers had been identified as HIV 
positive before the birth.  So, a high percentage of the HIV positive mothers
were not getting the treatment that could help their own health as well as
protect their children from the virus. :-(

                                                  Tracy

<So, a high percentage of the HIV positive mothers
<were not getting the treatment that could help their own health as well as
<protect their children from the virus. :-(

Tracy, what can a pregnant mother do to protect her child?  I wasn't aware
there *was* anything.

Incidentally, 3 out of 4 of the babies who test positive are only reflecting
their mother's antibodies and do not have the virus themselves.  The "positive"
result of the test will go away in a few months/years.

     Carol

> Tracy, what can a pregnant mother do to protect her child?  I wasn't aware
> there *was* anything.


Wasn't there a recent study that showed that giving AZT to pregnant women
substantially reduced the rate of infection in their babies?

	-Neil

> Tracy, what can a pregnant mother do to protect her child?  I wasn't aware
> there *was* anything.

There was a study done through the Immunology Clinic at UMass in which some
HIV-positive mothers were given AZT treatments during pregnancy and others
were given a placebo.  The children of these women were followed for 3 years
after birth, and those born of the AZT-treated mothers had a *significantly*
lower chance of actually having the virus.  I don't remember the actual
numbers, but the difference was so dramatic that the study was ended
prematurely so that *all* identified HIV-positive mothers could be treated.

I wish I could remember more of the details of her talk.  I remember being
so surprised that only about 12% (I think) of babies born to HIV-positive
mothers have the virus themselves.  I'd always thought it would be 100%.

If anyone is interested in finding out more about the work at UMass, it
was done out of the Special Immunology Clinic there and was part of a
study called the Women and Infants Transmission (WIT) Study.

                                                Tracy

    It's been covered elsewhere, but it's worth repeating that
    tests are inexact--they will sometimes say "YES", when the
    person does not have the disease, and "NO" when they do
    (false positive and false negative).
    
    In particular, the incidence of AIDS is so low, and the
    false positive rate of the cheap test is so high, that 
    we can expect to get many more false positives than true
    ones.
    
    So while the rate of positive results is interesting to the
    statisticans and is related to the actual AIDS rate, it's
    not exact enough to be worth worrying parents with, as the
    odd are still far better than even that the child doesn't
    really have the disease.
    
    		-John Bishop
    
    Here's a note from MEDICAL:
    
    ================================================================================
    Note 627.4        Question re:blood tests for marriage license          4 of 11
    MINAR::BISHOP                                        34 lines  1-FEB-1990 11:52
                           -< Not quite a death sentence... >-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        re .3, positive = death sentence
    
        There are several AIDS tests.  The cheap ones produce a fair
        number of false positives (says you have AIDS, but you don't).
        Given the low incidence of AIDS in the population getting
        marriage licenses, there are going to be more false positives
        than real ones.
    
        Example:
    
        Test 100,000 people.  Assume .1% (100 people) actually have AIDS,
        and that the false positive rate is 1%, and the false negative rate
        is 1% (in actual fact, the AIDS rate is lower than a tenth of a
        percent, and the false positive rate on a "quicky" test done in
        vast batches can be higher than 1%, so the disproportion can be
        even larger than in the example below).
    
        98,901 people are told they do not have AIDS
        98,900 really don't have AIDS.
             1 person who has AIDS is told he or she does not.
    
          1099 people are told they have AIDS.
          1000 of them do not.
            99 do have it.
    
    
        Notice that a thousand people panic, and that ten times as many
        people are told they have AIDS as actually do.  This is why most
        states did not institute AIDS testing for marriage licenses.
    
        The standard recommendation for a positive AIDS test is to go
        pay the money for a more sensitive test which is tuned to
        produce almost no false positives.
    
                                    -John Bishop

    Things that can be done to lessen the child of a mother who is HIV
    positive from passing the virus on to her child.  One of which is not
    breast feeding.  Studies show that this is one of the few problems that
    completely contraindicate breast feeding.  
    
    There are also debates on delivering via c-section, and immediate
    clamping of the umbilical cord on delivery to reduce risk of
    cross-transfusion between mother and baby.  
    
    Meg

    I had entered a reply yesterday, and as I got to the end, the link was
    lost.  I will try to enter a brief summary of what I said.
    
    I have had no direct *human* experience with HIV, and this is pointed
    towards the "false positives" discussion.  I adopted a stray cat last
    year (see my note from Aug '93 "moral delima adopting a stray")  Barney
    is now a healthy happy member of our family, but almost was a "hasbeen"
    before his time.  As part of his adoption we had him tested for FIV,
    which is feline AIDS and other diseases.  (NO you can't contract AIDS
    from a cat, not to worry!)  This at a fairly large, and well known
    Worcester Animal Hospital.  A week later I get a call informing me that
    Barney had tested *positive* for FIV.  I was instructed to
    *immediately* put him down. The other options were to keep him in a
    single cat household, or give him to someone with other FIV+ cats.  My
    reaction, call it gut feeling was there was something wrong with this,
    but isn't denial always the first reaction to bad news?  I called Tufts
    animal hospital and was seeking any/all info on FIV.  They agreed to
    retest him , using a different, socalled more accurate method. 
    Fortunate for all of us, it turned out negative.  This test carries a
    98% accuracy rate, the first is just a "screening" test and is 85%
    accurate.  
    
    I believe in humans, not babies, that blood is tested three different
    ways before declaring the patient HIV+.  I almost wonder with a
    "one-shot deal" on newborns, that some of the results could be
    inaccurate.  I would also wonder which method the newborn nursery uses,
    since I have discovered there are radically different ways of testing.
    
    Part of me also wonders how many inocent animals have been put to
    death, due to a faulty test, but that belongs in another notefile.
    
    Lyn

    
    Well, today I will be off for the final countdown.  2 more
    weeks till due date, who know how long till the birth. :-)
    
    Just let me pick up the infant seat, wash come clothes
    and linen... then BabyR can come. :-)
    
    I just wanted to thank everyone who entered notes in this 
    conference, it sure helps to know that you are not alone and
    your 'symptons' are just not that unique...
    
    I can't wait!  I can't wait!  I can't wait!
    Amy
    

    Amy, 
    
    Good luck, and God bless you with a real quick, conventional,
    delivery!  
    
    					cj *->