Conference moira::parenting

    Hi - My daughter Caitlin is 10 months old. Recently she started getting
    really clingy. I can't go to the bathroom without her behind me holding
    on to my leg. And if I try to take a shower in the morning....she has
    a fit she screams and cries..I don't know if she's mad that I'm in the
    shower without her, or she's afraid of me not seeing me and thinks that
    I won't come out.
    She's not afraid of the water cause she loves to take a bath and the
    minute she heards water running in the bathroom she comes crawling.
    

    My daughter just turned a year old.  She is now becoming very clinging.
    I plan on taking a day trip this weekend and leaving her with my mother
    for a whole day.  I left her a couple of times when she was smaller 
    and she never gave my mother a problem, but this past weekend my
    husband and I went out to dinner and my mother she was very whiney
    and acting strange towards my mother.  Now on the other hand, my
    mother-in-law watches her one day a week and she just loves her.
    She is going to be home this weekend, and I don't know if I should just
    have her do it, but I don't want to hurt my mothers feelings.
    
    I want my mother and my daughter to have a great relationship, but I
    don't know how to go about it.  But, as for this weekend, no that
    is a real problem!
    
    What do you think?
    
    Thanks
    Kim
    
    

    It seems like this never ends!  Jackie is 22.5 months and has become
    the Queen of Cling!  She has gone through this before, but never this
    bad.  Being out of her sight before was never a problem.  However, now
    it seems I can do nothing without her either clinging to my leg or her
    outstreched arms up in there air and her saying "hold me".  I have been
    told, however, that this too will pass.  I can't wait!
    
    mary
    

I would do it if I were you.  I am sure that much of her behaviour is related
to the fact that you are actually present.  Once you have left, the relationship
between your mother and daughter will have a chance to blossom and grow.

Whatever you do, however, don't try to sneak off or pretend you're only going
next door.  Tell her what will happen, tell her when you will be back, say
a very loving but not over done goodby, and leave.  Make sure that your 
Mother is ready with some very fun, very busy activity to get underway and
she will soon be busy and enjoying your mother.

I think children profit from the chance to be alone with other adults from
time to time.  I really envy all of you with loving grandparents who have a
good relationship with your children.  There is nothing in my opinion more
valuable.  My mother-in-law (a most wonderful gorgeous woman) died when my
boys were 1 and 3 years old.  My parents live 12,000 miles away.  I never knew
my father in law who was already dead by the time I met my husband.

Cheryl

    I agree with .4 about this.  All my kids went thru this stage, and
    that's all it is.  Just do things like you would if they weren't going
    thru it.  AND, when you're leaving, just say goodbye, give the kid a
    kiss, and leave!!  Don't drag the goodbyes out forever 'cause it only
    makes it worse.
    
    Chris D.

    About a year ago I tried leaving my daughter with my mother for a day,
    and it turned out that the daughter was just at a clingy stage.  They
    were both miserable.  For us, it worked better to have several
    consecutive days together with all of us together, to allow my daughter
    to warm up to her grandmother.
    
    In your position, I would leave the daughter with the grandmother that
    she is more familiar with, and make an effort to spend more time
    together with the other grandmother afterwards.
    
    How about consulting your mother about it directly?  She might be
    willing to take the chance, but then she might not.
    
    Beryl

My 10 month old (11 next week) has been going to daycare since
he was almost 4 months.  Up until about a month ago, I never
had any problems leaving him in the morning.  He would just start
playing with the toys, etc.

About a month ago he starting crying when I started to leave,
but was easily distracted by the daycare provider.

I switched daycares 3 weeks ago.  For the first week he was
just fine.  The past two weeks have been very hard on me.
He starts to cry as soon as I set him down at the center,
or pass him to the provider.

I've tried staying for 10-15 minutes and playing with him,
and I've tried just saying goodbye and leaving withing a
few minutes of arrival.

He does usually settle down shortly after I leave, and usually
has a good day.  However, this is extremely difficult for me.

I am pleased with the daycare and the women that work there.
I made the change because I was not happy with the politics
at the other center.

I know this is probably just a phase, but how long does it
last?  Does anyone have any ideas to make the morning
'drop off' easier on the baby, and on me??

Thanks for your suggestions, etc.

Ginny 

My daughter has gone through a few of these stages, and she has been with the
same daycare provider since she was 4 months.

The first stage started at about 9-10 months.  She was always very willing
and happy to go to the provider.  Lots of times she couldn't wait to get
out of my arms and into the providers arms.  Then all of a sudden she would
cling and cry when I dropped her off.  Talk about breaking your heart.
This stage lasted for maybe a couple of weeks.

Then again around 18 months she did the same thing.  Again it probably lasted
a couple of weeks.  Very tough on me.  I would quickly rush to the car so
the provider would not see my tears as well.  In my head I knew it was just
a stage, but my heart seemed to be stronger at the time.  Thankfully it
did not last long.

Every once in a while now she will have a day that she starts to cling.  I try
to get her engaged in some activity but at the same time let her know that
Mommy has to go to work.  I always tell her that I will see her later.  It's
harder on me to let her know that I have to leave, but I couldn't and wouldn't
just sneak out to avoid the situation.

I guess that was a long way of saying that know in your head that it is a stage
and will only last a short while (seems verrryyyyy long when you are going
through it though).

Barbara

    Russell went through the same stages as .8, at about the same age, give
    or take a month.

    Russell started daycare when he was 6 months.  He would smile at
    everybody when he got there.  When he was 1 year old, we went to NJ for
    about a week to see grandma & grandpa.  The first day back, Russell
    screamed and carried on so, I thought my heart would break.  I called
    about 5 times that day, just to make sure he was ok.  He was fine 10
    minutes after I walked out the door.  This went on for about a week or
    so.  (I only worked 3 days a week at that point)

    He went through another phase not long ago, at about 18 months.  This
    time it only lasted about 3 days.  If he has a cold, or his teeth were
    bothering him at night, he seems alittle more clingy the next morning.

    It tears my heart out every time I see him with those sad eyes, but I
    know he's fine 5 minutes after I leave.  I just keep telling myself
    that on the way to work.  I also try to remind myself of some of the days
    that Russell isn't ready to leave yet, and stamps his feet 'cuz
    mommy's taking him home. 

    marianne

    I need some perspective.
    
    My 21 month old recently graduated to the next room at daycare where
    she goes 20 hours/week.
    
    The new teachers combined with new procedures have been too much for
    her and she has cried each of the last 4 days I've dropped her off.
    
    Because of the summer teacher ratios, there is one teacher for 6
    toddlers, several of whom are as clingy as mine.  When I complained
    about the teacher shortage (what is the OFC regulation for this age
    anyway?) the center's response was that she was clingy because she was
    part time and they strongly recommended sending her full-time.
    
    She has been at this center for 7 months now and has loved it!
    
    I request that the teacher  get her attention as I leave always wait
    outside the door until she stops crying.  The center's director has
    made me feel it's unreasonable for me to ask for a little one-on-one
    attention for my child in the morning.  She typically settles down in
    less than 5 minutes so I disagree.
    
    I don't feel that sending her full-time is a solution; the center has
    agreed to "work with us" to get a better transition for her but this
    whole encounter has left me wondering if I'm being unreasonable.
    
    She's a little kid and she needs hugs in my opinion!!

    I certainly disagree with your center's director.
    
    It is *extremely* reasonable to expect some one-on-one attention during
    Mom's departure.  In my daughter's center the ratio is 4:1 at 21
    months.  Every morning we have a ritual where I say good-bye, she runs
    after me, I pick her up, and I hand her to her favourite teacher.  Then
    her teacher shows her something special to distract her. (My husband
    does the exact same thing when he drops her off.)  
    
    If another child's parent is leaving, I generally wait and let Gina have
    her turn when that child is "done" missing Mom or Dad.
    
    The teacher does something to calm each child as the parent departs. 
    It only makes sense to me.  
    
    I'd be very upset if I was told otherwise...
    
    judy

    Yes, I do the exact same thing as .-1.  Marc has been going to the same
    center for about 9 months, and he still goes through periods of crying
    when I leave.  I make sure I stay until I see a teacher is free, then
    after I say goodbye, I give him to the teacher.  She distracts him, and
    he stops crying in 30 seconds.  When I pick him up, or if I stop by
    during the day, he's as happy as a clam, and it's often hard to get him
    to leave!

    A little one-on-one when you leave, IMHO, is not unreasonable at all. 
    The center where Russell goes is *very* understanding about this. 
    Russell rarely gets clingy, but when he does, the teacher is very good
    about holding him, giving him some hugs, and getting him
    distracted/interested in something else.  I don't think it's too much
    to ask, especially if you think it's just a phase.

    marianne

    Thanks for the replies.  Things are getting better!  This morning
    Katina said brightly "Hi Karen" to her new teacher (of course, Katina
    then burst into tears at the thought of my leaving).
    
    In talking to other parents, I've learned that transitions to summers
    are ALWAYS difficult at this center (probably others?)  They hire
    alot of young (16+) women to work with the kids.  Fine, but *they*
    don't realize that holding and hugs ARE needed for these little guys
    (but they're learning their new job too).
    
    I'm working with the summer staff and feeling better.  Of course, I
    wish the staff had warned me this transition would be so tough on all
    of us!

Because many of the daycare center instructors have young kids of their own,
they do tend to take the summers off.  I believe you'll find this quite common
in all daycare centers.

Our center tries to bring back the same summer help (college kids majoring
in child development), until they graduate and find permanent positions 
(elsewhere) ... and my daughter (2-3/4 years of age) actually "warms" up to
the college kids (because they tend to be more flexible and interact 
wonderfully with the kids ... they'll play Simon Says and teach the kids
hand-action songs, paint rocks, make paper airplanes, etc.).  They have
motivation and energy and seem to be more tolerant.  Juli's daycare
center (which follows a learning center's curriculum with planned activities
and lessons) beefs up activities during the summer months.  They have a
minimum of one monthly field trip ("bused" offsite - Boston Aquarium,
Discovery Museum, Apple Orchard (where they each pick a bag of apples and
get apple cider and treats), Drumlin Farm, Worcester Science Museum ... to
name a few), they also open the inground pool and hire two Red Cross swimming
instructors - and for a fee, your kid can get private Red Cross swimming
lessons) ... they also fill small plastic swimming pools and have tryke
races, fill ketchup bottles with paint and spray large sheets of paper hanging
on the fence (and the Director's van!!!!)  They have a parents breakfast (where
the kids do the baking!) and a parents BBQ (where the kids do the baking and
treats) ...

... I guess I'm trying to say that the summer months are the MOST FUN ones
at Juli's center ... and Juli really likes the summer help.

Of course the center still maintains a certain level of permanent instructors
in each stage (even if they have to shuffle one or two to another stage or
two ... so you have at least one permanent instructor in each stage group).

Although the kids stay in their stage group during the morning session and
two stage groups pair up during naptime ... the afternoon hours (after naptime -
3 pm'ish) is for group play where ALL kids and ALL instructors join forces
either indoors (during the winter or bad weather days) or outdoor (during
the summer months) ... so Juli's comfortable with ALL instructors and ALL kids.

Not sure if your center is like this ... but Juli (and I!) hate to see the
winter months come!  (although they do suit the kids up and taboggan and
make snowmen with the kids).

There's so much activity at Juli's center, that I'm not really sure she notices
who's "in charge" ... although, she is quite attached to her head instructor,
"Sanko" ... who is a softie cupcake and the kids (especially the young toddlers!)
know it!  Amazing how Sanko can carry a kid on each hip and one in her arms and
still manage to push another on a swing!  So if Sanko were to take the summer
off, I'm sure Juli would miss her ... especially since Sanko keeps the real
young ones happy, content and teaches through with lots of love ... the kids
really bond to her.  I'm not looking forward to Juli promoting to the next
stage area in September!  I'll probably miss Sanko's daily smiles and
encouragement more than Juli!!!!

Dottie

    Okay, I think I have figured out why Rebecca has been acting so badly
    lately.  She is getting me back for leaving her.  Yesterday, I picked
    her up from my m-i-l's and she was so bad, that my m-i-l had to run
    in the house. (she feels extremely bad when Rebecca cries).  I don't
    know what to do anymore.  She pulls these screaming fits in front
    of people, she will at the top of her lungs scream until she is
    red in the face, it can last for a few seconds too! I do believe this
    is all due to me leaving her.  Can anyone lend some advice to me?
    Boy, this is changing my mind about having another child.
    
    Help!
    
    

    My 18-month-old daughter is getting kind of clingy.  If I'm standing
    at the kitchen sink washing dishes or peeling potatoes, she squirms
    arround in front of me and wants me to pick her up.  If I'm cooking,
    she wants me to pick her up.  I don't mind picking her up, it's her
    getting right in front of me that bugs me.  I've tried putting her
    in her high chair in the (very small) kitchen so she can watch me,
    and that's OK for a while.  I like her company just fine; I'm just
    scared stiff that she'll get hurt.  I've got a 4 year old and I can't
    really cordon off the kitchen with a gate like I used to.  The way
    the house is laid out, you have to go through the kitchen to get to
    the bathroom, the bedrooms, etc.
    
    Also, my daughter like to play "Ring-Around-The-Rosey."  I would like
    to set a limit of, say, three or four "rosies."  I don't want to be
    mean about it, but 7:20 a.m. is NOT an optimum time for playing
    "rosies."  Did anyone else go through this, and if so, what did you do?

	Re: .17

	Our daugther, 23 months, still does this.  She started at 12 months.

	What we did, while she was still light enough, was to put her in 
	the back-pack, so she could watch what we were doing, but not be
	in the way.  Now, we find that all she really wants to know is what
	is cooking in each pot.  She points them out and we show her.

	I wish that she was still light enough for the back pack!!

Can you get the 4-yr-old to play "rosies" with the 18-month-old?

    
    for this - and nearly anything else we want to do with Sophie, we've
    found it helps to set the stage.  
    
    Ie.... "Ok,let's play for two more minutes. Then mommy will go do
    {mumble}.
    
    or.. "In three minutes it's time for bed"
    
    When she was really young, it helped to get her attention and have
    her acknowledge we had communicated. 
    
    As for getting in teh way, I second the backpack idea.
    
    Jamd

    My son is now five, and is going through a mini separation anxiety
    attack. This has been going on, off-and-on, since fall. We find that
    reciting Daniel's and our schedules helps, also calling him a lot, if
    possible. He likes to carry our work phone numbers with him as a lucky
    charm. We try not to overplan his life; he does best if we keep strong
    routines. He had some trouble at Christmastime doing things away from 
    us (which we didn't insist on). He seems so grown up in some ways, but 
    needs to be a little kid for a while longer.
    
    Is anyone else's five-year-old like this?
    
    Lucy

My daughter at almost 3 is going through what I hope is just another stage
of separation anxiety.  She did this at about 9 months and again at about 18
months.

She has been going to the same provider now for several months.  Anyone
else go through this at this age.  Please tell me it is just a stage.

She tells me she likes the provider and often tells me she wants to go.  But
then when we get there in the morning she clings and tells me she does not
want to stay.  This has been slowly getting worse for the last couple of
weeks.  The provider and I try to get her engaged in an activity before
I leave.  This usually works, but not this morning.  Great way to start
the morning.

Barbara

    The only time Brad went through this was just before he turned three. 
    I was worried something was happening at school and he didn't want to
    stay.  It lasted for a couple of months and then things went back to
    normal.  At three they are gaining a lot of independence, but at the
    same time want Mommy there all the time.  
    
    I think it is just another stage with your daughter too.  I sure
    doesn't make it any eaiser on mom.
    
    Sasha

My 3 year old son Christopher just started this same thing this
past week.  He only goes to the daycare center 3 days a week and
Monday we were both in tears by the time I left, Wednesday he 
started the same behaviour, crying that he didn't want me to 
leave and even going so far as to put on his coat as if he were
coming to work with me.

This morning, my husband decided to try to drop him off to see
if he had more luck.  As it turns out, he was fine.  Ran in to
play with some of the kids right away.  Although I feel like he
may be doing this just to me, after reading a different note, with
the time change, the full moon and a cold he was rather out of
sorts.

Next week I'll try to drop him off again in the morning, he should
be over any of that latter so if it's just a stage of wanting Mommy
he'll repeat it.  I'm betting he won't....more so I'm hoping he
won't.  It really is the lousiest way to start the day.

Keep your chin up, she'll get over it.

so what would people say are the "normal" ages that a kid has a bout of
separation anxiety.  From this note it seems like

about 9 months
about 18 months
about 2.5-3 years


are about average.  I ask because Elise seems to be going thru this right now
at about 2.5.  She doesn't cling when I drop her off at daycare, but she is
suddenly giving us a hard time at bedtime - she willingly admits she wants
our company until she falls asleep.

We're hoping this is a stage that she'll work thru.


Pat

    To add to your list of normal ages for separation anxiety:
    
    3 yrs old
    4 yrs old
    5 yrs old 
    and probably more, but our oldest is only 5!
    
    I don't mean to be flippant, but I've found that with a kid who
    tends to be clingy, the clinginess can come back over and over,
    with a different twist each time. With a kid who is laid back,
    there may be only fleeting bits of anxiety now and then.
    
    Lucy

Pat,

Christopher has decided he likes this just about every night for
quite some time now (just ask Russ :-)).  There was a time where
he would put his arm around whoever was laying with him, or grab
hold of a hand and say that he was doing it to make sure we didn't
leave.

We are trying to phase him out of this and found that we can often
say to him "I need to go wash the dishes but I will be back right
after to check on you" or something similar and he accepts it and
is usually asleep by the time we get back.

Now we are working more towards him understanding that Russ will
lay there with him for only a few minutes because things need to
get done around the house.  Chris is accepting it...slowly.
He seems settled when we tell him that we'll be back to check on
him, which, even at 3 years of age, I still slip in during the
night to check on him.

Persistence I guess :-).

Marji

    Tell me it gets easier.....!
    
    Yesterday was Alex's first day of daycare.  Alex is 2 3/4 years old.
    Prior to daycare Alex had a sitter come to our house (not live-in).
    
    Yesterday was great....he was excited to go and play with the other
    kids (only a total of 6 kids).  I was thrilled!  He seemed eager to
    get busy and PLAY!  And when I left it was no big deal.
    
    Well, that was yesterday.  Today was VERY different.  He had a 
    _SCREAMING_ fit when I tried to leave.  The new sitter handled 
    him great....anyone who can manage an angry 2 yr. old with love
    gets my vote.  BUT, it was very difficult for him AND me.
    
    So, how long until it gets better?  I try very hard to let Alex know
    that his feelings are important to me, so I'm torn.  How can I let 
    him know that I _believe_ his feelings and still leave him at daycare
    screaming....."mama, _please_ don't leave me!!!" 
    
    Has anyone else had to deal with this and lived to tell about it?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Linette                              
     

    It will get better....try to develop a ritual for leaving that
    you can do everyday.  One of our kids had a real hard time
    with the 'parting'....we made it much easier by parting with
    a kiss and a hug at the door everyday (sometimes two).  It seemed
    that no matter how long we would stay, having the ritual
    was most important.  Give him a picture of you to take with him.

    At our daughter's current pre-school, they have a good-bye 'window'
    around the corner of the house past which you walk on your way to the
    car.  At this window there is a collection of plastic and junk
    cameras...and the kids can 'take your picture' at the window (with
    them on the INSIDE and you OUTSIDE!).  It amazes me how important
    this is to many of the kids there.

    It will get better!
    bob

You might check note 33 on Separation Anxiety for some hints on
how to deal with it.

Rest assured it does pass, but I know it's not easy.  I've walked
out of my son's daycare center in tears myself at times.  (Although
I don't let him see that).

As .1 said, keep a usual ritual, it helps to give them a regular
routine.  I found it usually passes from 1 to 2 weeks.  Be forwarned
though, it happens again at times.  Hang in there.

    Make sure you always say goodbye when leaving. It's hard, but good to
    do.
    
    I will often call my sitter once I'm at work and check on when my
    younger son calmed down. Invariably it was before my car was out of her
    driveway.  
    
    Hang in there - it's very tough.
    

    Well reading reply .28 has made me nervous...
    
    I have an almost 2.5 yr. old and a 10 week old. The kids have never
    been in a daycare situation. (My husband has the kids during the day 
    and goes to law school at night). Well, this summer, my husband has a
    law clerk job. So, for 14 weeks, the kids will be in daycare 3 days per
    week (My MIL has them 1 day/week, as she has done this since the 1st
    was born, and I'll be taking 1 vacation day/week). We have been telling
    our older daughter, Caroline, that she'll be starting 'school' next
    week and she seems excited by it. (We say 'school' because she can relate
    this to Daddy's school.) She has visited the daycare with us and
    immediately joined in while we were there. She has never had any
    separation episodes to speak of, but, then again, she has really only
    been cared for by relatives. I am concerned as to what to expect and
    how to prepare her and myself.  (I don't mean to exclude my 10 week old
    from this anxiety that I have, but I think that will be limited to the
    standard mom-leaving-kid with others anxiety.. my separation
    anxiety, not hers...I think she'll be too young for that now and thru 
    the summer.)
    
    I expect to visit the daycare this week to discuss this with the
    toddler teacher. I also expect to come in to work a little later than
    usual on the first day. Any other suggestions on preparation? 
    
    Lisa
                            
    who_is_getting_more_nervous_as_Monday_approaches.

    It is important to let your child know what to expect.  As much as
    possible tell the child what activities are planned and when you will
    be back.  For example, my son's group has play time outside (weather
    permitting) from 3:30 - 4:30, so I would tell him that I would pick him
    up after play period.  Also let the child know if someone else is
    picking her up (i.e., Daddy, Granma etc.).  My son still fusses at me
    if I haven't informed him of changes in routine.  The first two weeks
    are h***, but they do adjust - probably faster than we do ;-).

    I read an article about this in a magazine a while back, and one of
    their suggestions, which worked GREAT for us, was in the "not daycare
    time visits".  I went, with child, to their new daycare.  They needed
    to see what was there and what was to be expected.  The article
    suggested that the child gets some sort of "reading" from how you react
    to the place, as to how comfortable/uncomfortable _they_ will feel. 
    Also, on the pre-visits, I played with them a Little, and we picked out
    a few of the toys/games that they liked best, so that when the "1st
    day" (or week) came, there was something that I could say "I bet you
    must be awful excited to be able to go play with that new play kitchen
    they have at school!" (or whatever it is).  A lot of places use the
    picture idea, and of course, I've always encouraged mine to bring their
    1 or 2 favorite thing(s) with them, so they always felt like a little
    bit of "home" was with them.  A friend of mine made a small pillow that
    her child carried with, and when she was feeling sad or lonely, she
    could always hold the pillow against her cheek, and it helped a lot. 
    I've also found that "fast" goodbys tend to be less stressful - they're
    expecting you to drop them off.  If you hang around then there must be
    "something wrong", and they get nervous.  
    
    And of course, on those teary mornings, I would call in later, and find
    that by the time I'd reached my car, the wailing child was playing
    happily.  A lot of it (in particular at that age) is a test of control
    and power.  Keep assuring them when you'll be back, and try not to be
    late.  You can even make a clock, and set it for when you expect to
    pick them up - then they can compare it to the "real" clock.  It makes
    them feel like they have a little "control" over their world!
    
    Good luck,
    Patty

    Well, it DID get worse!
    
    This a.m. (day #3 at daycare) was horrible.  Alex cried from the time
    he woke up until we got to daycare.  To make things worse, he was 
    so upset in that he vomitted in the car.  He was miserable....I was
    miserable.  (I still am.)
    
    Both my husband and I tried to calm him down....talk with him, cuddle
    him, reassure him.  Nothing seemed to help.  I tried to stay positive
    with him, even though my heart is breaking. 
    
    I have worked full-time since he was 2 months old....he's always had
    to say goodbye to me in the morning, so I really wasn't prepared for 
    this reaction.  And this could go on for two weeks???????
    
    I called the sitter after I got to work (and cleaned out the car).
    She said he was fine....resting on the couch with his blankie.
    I hope for both our sake's this gets easier.
    
    Still feeling sad,
    
    Linette
    

    Linette,
    
    Perhaps you can try to find out WHY he doesn't want you to go ?  Is
    there something going on at the daycare that he doesn't like or that is
    hurting him?  At his age, he should be able to express his
    fears/concerns well enough, if you take the time to listen.  I don't
    know Alex, but any child becoming THIS upset this far in advance, would
    have me a little concerned.
    
    Good Luck!
    Patty

    My son was exactly your son's age when he started nursery school
    (preschool - whatever). He clung, he cried. One trick we discovered
    was that he separated more easily if Daddy dropped him off. Is that
    a possibility for you?
    
    It got better relatively quickly, although there were some relapses. I 
    think he hated anticipating the separation, rather than hating the school 
    experience. He almost always had a good time and stopped crying after two 
    or three minutes. He has always liked routine and hates to learn new ones.
    
    Do call the center as often as you want. Do ask them all the details of 
    how they comfort him. Ask them what is typical in cases like his -- they 
    have lots of experience. Ask the teachers if he has started to show an
    interest in any other kids and learn their names, so that you can work 
    them into the conversation at home and on the way in the morning.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Lucy

I don't want to make light of this, because we went through the exact same 
thing, and it was really tough.  But if any of you get a newspaper that has 
the comic strip "For Better or Worse" (imo a MUST for anyone with kids), the 
current sequence deals with the youngest one starting daycare.

Clay 

    Alex and day #4
    
    MUCH better....thank God!!!  When I picked him up last night we
    had a great conversation about his day, which kids he played with,
    what games he played, what he had for lunch, etc.  On the drive 
    home we have several landmarks that we talk about, too.  He seemed
    pretty darn happy for a kid that thought he way _dying_ that 
    morning.
    
    This morning had a few tears, but all in all it was a much better
    experience.  We talked in detail about what would happen when I 
    left, when I would be back, and he was allowed to take what he 
    wanted from his room....2 blankies, a dog, a tiny dinosaur, and
    a picture of he and I at Disneyland.  So, loaded down, he walked
    into daycare on his own, without a temper tantrum.
    
    It's a hard transition from being King of the Universe to one of
    the crowd....but, hopefully, we are on the upswing.  Last night 
    he talked about missing his "Sita" (Rosita, our previous sitter).
    He was with her from the time he was 8 months old, and loves her
    a lot.  Unfortunately she is leaving the country, so we can't even
    visit her from time to time.  So not only does he have the new
    situation, but he has lost someone he loves.  
    
    Thanks for the encouragement and ideas!!!
    
    Linette
     

    
    Feeling idealistic and unrealistic today....
    
    
    Just doesn't feel RIGHT to subject the little guys to separation
    anxiety.  WHY do we (speakng for myslef, mostly) allow ourselves to get
    trapped into these situations where such a choice has to be made.
    &^$! Where's my magic wand...
    
    :-)/4
    Jamd

I had entered a question in April (note 33.25)
in which I asked about the normal stages of separation
anxiety.  Elise had not been giving me problems at drop-off
and pick-up, but just bedtime manipulation.  She is
currently 2 years, 8 months.

But here it is three months later, and she's getting more and
more clingy.  I'm starting to wonder if she really is just
going thru a phase, or if we have a problem.

Here's what I think are the relevant facts:  her little
sister, Sarah, is now 8 months old, and is about to crawl.  

Elise has become toilet-trained.
She woke up one Saturday morning asking for underpants, and
we went for it.  Accidents are rare.  

Also, the stress of 
Digital and having a new child caused some problems between 
my husband and I, but they were not serious and have been 
resolved. We have tried to be extremely clear to Elise about 
family stability and loving each other even tho we get angry, etc.

Also, there has been a certain amount of staff
turnover and disruption at her daycare, however, not in her direct
caregivers. (Disruption is too strong a word, but I am at a loss for a
better one). It may be a factor, since some of the issues are in
her sister's room, and center-wide.  She certainly hears her father
and I discussing it.  

Also, for the last three months
we have had a weekly babysitter (the same one every week, a person
she is familiar with from her daycare).  In the last month, she has 
been telling me she doesn't want Kim to come (on babysitter day), 
but then the next day she'll tell me she wants Kim to come and play
with her.  I don't think Kim herself is the problem, but the last
three weeks, Elise has gone ballistic on Kim for no apparent
reason.  If I ask Elise about Kim, she is very focused on not wanting
me to go, as opposed to Kim as a babysitter.  She has also
flipped out on another babysitter she likes much more than Kim.

One last factor - I took last week off, including daycare drop-off
and pick-up.  My husband did all daycare duty, including packing
of bags (isn't he great?).  This is the first time that ever happened.
Perhaps that confused her.  I'm back on duty this week.

Yesterday, I went to visit Elise at lunch, and she insisted I
hold her the entire time.  (Which I did).  She was willing to
let me go easily after lunch.

Personality-wise, Elise has always been a very secure and stable
little girl.  She has never had much separation anxiety.  We have
tried to be very consistent about coming and going, and always
telling her in advance what is going to happen.  I did not
warn her in advance that I was coming to visit at lunch yesterday.
I've done this many times with no problems.

I'm sorry to go on so long, but I need some good gut feel opinions
on whether this sounds like a normal thing kids go thru.

Thanks much.

Pat

    Maybe Elise just doesn't want to go to bed.  
    
    Your problems coincide with the months when daylight lasts longest. 
    I've been having a tough time getting Ilona to settle, particularly
    when she can hear and see other kids playing outside in the pool.  The
    heat doesn't help either.
    
    Also, Elise is old enough to develop clever tricks to postpone bedtime. 
    Ilona (2 yrs., 10 months) tries her whole repetoire almost daily.  She
    says she wants milk or water.  She wants the blanket up or down.  The
    fan setting isn't right.  She needs another hug and kiss.  She wants to
    hear another story.  The book or toy in bed is not the right one.  Etc. 
    The only valid item is having to urinate, if she does.  She comes out
    of her bedroom, I walk her back.  Over and over.  Used to average 2 or
    3 times.  Lately we average 6.  I think the long days are the culprit.
    At least I hope this improves as evening comes earlier!
    
    Don't know about the problems leaving her with the babysitter.  Maybe
    she has figured out that she can get a reaction out of you and she is
    taking advantage of that.  Do you drag out the goodbyes in response to
    your behavior?  Could you shorten the goodbyes?
    
    Laura

The goodbyes aren't a big deal.  She usually just
kisses me goodbye.  Like last night, she said goodbye
fairly easily.  When the sitter arrived, she asked
me not to go, but I replied that I understood she
wanted me to stay, but that daddy and I needed to
go out and play together.  She was disappointed but
satisfied.

Apparently, 5 minutes after we left, she burst into
tears and was inconsolable.

So, she's not jerking us, she's jerking the babysitter.
Maybe that's it?  (That was suggested by another parent
I've asked).

Pat

    Gee, Pat, this sounds really common.  Gina has been giving us trouble
    about one of us going out lately.  I was supposed to go to something
    and she was going to stay with her father. 
    
    She was so inconsolable that I decided to take her with me.
    
    Then last week she did the same thing with her father.  He ended up
    going out anyway, and I distracted her with letting her pick out a
    popsicle.
    
    The interesting thing, she is using her words, not crying.  She begs us
    to stay with her.  She says she'll miss us, and is pretty darn good at
    it too!
    
    So far, I've done a lot of talking about how we all need to do things
    on our own.  We are about to start a Monday-night-is-for-Mom-and-Dad
    only  routine, so I'll be interested to see what she does with the
    sitter.  She likes this sitter and I'm hoping that will help.
    
    I think it is harder when they get older and can communicate about what
    they want exactly.  I could distract and console her more easily when
    she was younger.   
    
    I'm hoping this is just a stage and she'll get over it soon.
    
    judy

    Pat, that list of stressors is enough to explain a lot of
    clinging!  In particular, having a younger sibling is a big
    deal to a child, and every milestone (like no diapers) is
    stressful.
    
    Further, Laura may be on to something with the day length,
    as our daughter is more clingy than usual, even though she's
    the younger child.  After all, they are probably getting less
    sleep at night during the summer.
    
    While I understand the benefit to you (and to your husband!)
    of your taking a week "off", I bet it's upsetting to Elise:
    children that age don't like changes.  They don't like sitters
    in general either, as sitters mean the parents are gone.
    
    		-John Bishop

    I don't have a respone to the issue raised in the last few replies,
    but I do have a related question.
    
    My 2.75 year old has good days and bad days when it comes to day
    care drop off.  Some days he kisses me goodbye and happily goes
    off to play; other days he clings and cries and tells me how 
    sad he is that I'm leaving him.  
    
    What I'm wondering is this:  Should I ever give in and let him
    stay home from day care for a day just because he seems to really
    not want to go?  (Even though he's not sick?)  I have some left-
    over vacation days and could do this, but I'm afraid of setting
    a precedent.  If I let him talk his way out of day care one day,
    will he be more disapppointed the next time I drop him off and
    he doesn't want to stay but I can't take a vacation day?  
    
    Has anyone ever done this?  What was the result?  Did the child
    seem happier and more relaxed as a result of your flexibility
    and by how much you listened to him and took his feelings into
    consideration?  Or did the child just take an inch and want a mile?
    
    Jane

With kids, you can never say never or always, but I think that "giving in" 
means that you have lost control, and that you are setting yourself up for 
more serious battles later, when perhaps you have no vacation available.  I'm 
all for taking a day off to be with a child, but I think it would work best 
if that's a planned event.

Of course I'm assuming that your gut doesn't tell you that something bad is 
going on at daycare, and that the child isn't ill.  I also don't think that 
you have to be harsh or not empathetic; you just need to be firm.

Clay

    
    When my oldest daughter Breanne was about 3, she would get sad
    sometimes when I dropped her off at daycare.  
    
    Taking a vacation day without planning it ahead of time is not an 
    option for me.  Sometimes I would work through lunch and surprise her
    by picking her up early and going out for an ice cream or to a
    playground.  She would be so happy when she saw me there early - she
    knows who gets picked up first and if I was there to get her and
    everyone else hadn't been picked up yet she knew I was early.  
    
    It made us both feel better and gave a us a little special time
    together alone.  
    
    Kirsten
    

    
    I haven't done it...yet, but my vote is.. if the day will work for you
    and she really doesn't seem to want to go to daycare... grab the
    moment!
    
    She's about old enough to understand (or learn!) that it can't be done
    everytime, and I thnk it could provide an important lesson about being
    spontaneous when you can!
    
    Enjoy! Life is short (and those childhood years are even shorter)
    Jamd

	Inertia over takes us all at one time or another, and sometimes we 
	just need someone else to move us along.

	With my daughter, (2.5), inertia takes two forms: She doesn't want
	to go, or she doesn't want me to leave.

	In the first case, I say "Okay. Let's just tell Karen and Hillary
	that you don't want to go to school today."  We get there and she's
	either forgotten that she didn't want to go, or she tells one of them
	and moves on to other things herself.  Seems she just need to assert
	and have her feeling recognized and that's enough.

	When she doesn't want me to go, she stands at the window with either
	one of her teachers or some of her friends, and I drive by.  We wave
	and blow kisses.  half the time, I drive by she's not there, she's 
	already involved with something.

	

    I wonder if anyone could offer any advice on the following :
    
    My wife and I wanted to go skiing this year, in two months time. We
    have the holiday booked and everything. We have 12 month old twins.
    The company we have booked through has a very good creche.
    
    Recently my wife has started to try to leave the babies at a daytime
    creche for short periods at a time (1/2 an hour or so) and every time,
    she has returned to find the babies sobbing, past the hysterical stage.
    
    The creche have told her that they can't cope with them anymore; as
    soon as she leaves they just go nuclear.
    
    We're concerned that they'll never be able to make it in a daytime
    creche on the ski trip in two months time.
    
    I'm on the verge of cancelling the whole trip, but I still wonder quite
    how much progress could be made with this in the remaining weeks.
    
    Has anyone else faced similiar problems ?
    
    				Jamie.

    >>>.Recently my wife has started to try to leave the babies at a daytime
    >>> creche for short periods at a time (1/2 an hour or so) and every time,
    >>>she has returned to find the babies sobbing, past the hysterical stage.
    
    In my experience with (26 month daughter) my child needed more time to
    feel comfortable with someone & on a longer & more consistent basis.
    
    At 12 months she would only go to me, my husband, my mother & my
    sister-in-law (who has very similar facial features, hair and
    personality to me).
    
    At this stage of the game she goes hysterical when we walk into a room
    full of people.
    
    We did the ski trip thing and we brought my parents with us to watch
    her during the day......it was a joy for them and I was still able to 
    nurse at night, but the change in environments made her more irritable
    during the night.
    
    If you don't have family the children are close to, I'd recommend
    having some you want to watch the child spend a day or two with you
    the & sitter.  We did this with someone who watches Natasha now.  She
    was just to scared and I didn't have the heart not to make the extra
    time with her and the sitter to make it more comfortable.  We had Dawn
    (the sitter) over for dinner a couple nights before and over the
    morning before she'd spend the next two days.  Then we talked to
    Natasha about Dawn coming over and how much fun it would be.
    
    I've noticed that Natasha at this stage gets a sence of people....if
    she feels they're geniune she takes a shine to them in about 15
    minutes.  If they're holding back, nervous, phony, etc........ she
    won't give them the time of day.  
    
    My moms neighbor, Jackie was like a second mom to us kids growing up 
    and she can't wait for her own kids to have kids....another story in
    itself.  When Natasha was born she pounced on her for affection. 
    She pounces so much Natasha won't give her the time of day.  Natasha
    recently saw a picture of Jackie..............and her response was,,,
    no, no, no, no.
    
    At 12 months I didn't feel as comfortable going off skiing (which is
    one of my most favorite rec. activities) as I do now at 24 months.  I
    know now that when I'm gone, she'll have a fine time and be very happy.
    It's tuff at 12 months............especially with 2 kids.  Also, I
    remember that Natasha would sometime fuss for the 1st hour and then be
    fine.
    
    Good luck.  I hope you make it to the slops!  It's snowing right now in 
    Marlboro, MA (US)
    
    
    

    I guess it also has something to do with the change in environment.
    At 12 months Charlotte was very erratic in her behaviour (sleep,
    eating habits, etc) if we were (even with her) in a strange place.
    
    I don't really have any good suggestions, but wish you luck.
    
    Monica

	I had a similar problem with Emily when I first began 
	bringing her with me to aerobics 1 day /week.  However,
	the longest her crying lasted was 10 minutes.  A little extra
	attention from the worker in the daycare went a long way. 

	On our third visit, she clung to me for dear life as we
	approached the building.  I felt confident that she'd adjust
	as she got more familiar with the surroundings (she never had
	a problem with someone watching her in her own home), and she
	did.  After about 5 visits, she no longer cried when I dropped her
	off, and now (at 18 months), says "play", "kids", "down" as we
	approach the building.  

	As for helpful suggestions, the things I tried were arriving 15
	minutes early, waiting a bit for her to get used to her surroundings 
	before even making any moves toward separation, then bringing her into 
	the daycare room.  Once in the room, I'd try to find some toy that
	I knew she'd be interested in.  I even sat on the floor and played
	with it a bit to get her interest.  I'd eventually stand (met by
	screams the first two times), then make my exit.  

	Karen

    
    Think it's their age.
    
    Inspite of being at creche since she was 11 weeks, Rebecca went through
    this when she was around one. She either had to be with one of us or
    her favourite nurse at creche. This nurse even took Rebecca on her
    lunch break to keep her happy. This phase lasted about 2 months, so the
    twins could be OK in time for the hoilday. Can you get them used to
    being away from their parents for longer periods before then? If the
    creche cannot cope with babies going through this, they are not doing
    their job!!
    
                    seals
    

    Well, I'm here.  Since I started this file I always had in the
    back of my mind I'd someday have to review this topic.  That
    someday arrived last week.
    
    Last Monday, *ping* Angeline has decided to cling when I leave her
    at daycare.   I have noticed her getting clingier around other people
    in, say, the past month.   But last Monday, and every day since, she
    does not want me to leave in her in the morning.  (Of course, there's
    an indentical, if not worse, fit when she has to leave at the end of
    the day ;-> ) 
    
    Now the first day she had a fever and I attributed it to her being
    sick, and I'm probably right.  The next two days she still wasn't well,
    but I guess the seed got planted, because we're having little scenes
    before we leave the house and when we get to the sitter's.
    
    And that was one week after turning 19mths old.  I consider myself
    lucky this is her first time into this phase.  But I've been waiting
    for it, and am ready for it, armed with the knowledge I'm not alone.
    The voices of the PARENTING sages go with me.  :-)  :-)  
    
    p.s.
    Sandy Pendak....is she giving you a hard time when you leave too?  
    I hear she gives you hugs more readily!  :-)
                                                                    
    

    I'm still getting hugs.  Yesterday Angeline was so glad to see Aaron,
    she came running to the door!  I love their greeting ritual, they see
    each other and start turning in circles, then they pretty much ignore
    each other except to reach for the toy the other one is playing with!
    
    Angeline did seem a little more clingy with Rhonda then usual this
    morning, do you think it has anything to do with her going into her
    "big girl" bed?
    
    sandy

    Sandy,
    
    Funny you mentioned her being clingy with Rhonda.  I just got off
    the phone with Rhonda and she was saying that Angeline is getting
    a little more whiny and clingy with her lately too.  She said it's
    when the other parents come to drop off or pick up their kids.  
    
    This has all coincided with her starting in her bed.  I'm not sure
    if it is coincidence or not, though.  Interesting thought!  
    
    Does anyone else want to run with one?
    							cj *->

    
    Insert Twilight Zone Music here ..... this is *TOO WEIRD*!  Jonathan,
    normally a perfect angel (-: has recently turned into DEVIL CHILD at
    daycare, and bring dropped off.  I've *NEVER* seen him anything like
    this EVER, much less regularly.  He's 2 1/2 -apparantly I've been
    blessed, huh?  But he's turning into a REAL brat at daycare, and they
    don't have anything nice to say about the way he's behaving.  He;s
    clingy and mean and defiant ... sigh.
    
    If him and Angeline had seen each other lately, I might say it's all
    CJ's fault (-;
    
    I was ready to chalk it up to being "TWO", until I read the part about
    the bed ... and interestingly enough, Jonathan recently transferred to
    a bed, and his crib is down.  He pretty much hasn't been sleeping in
    his bed, until the past week or so -right before he transformed to
    devil child.
    
    Anyone else?!?  Hey, I'll put the crib back up - I have no problem with
    that!  If it'd solve anything!!
    
    Thanks,
    Patty

    Well, Angeline was back to her old self being left a daycare today.
    And while I'm not counting on it's continuing, it was a blessed
    break.   She did get up much clingier than she usually is in the
    a.m., but seemed to come out of it.   HOWEVER..... she did come
    in my bed in the middle of the night last night.... hmmmmmmm
    
    Another thing, though, that I think may have worked for us this
    morning.  Rhonda (sitter) has put one of those little kids recliners
    in her son's room.  When I dropped Angeline off, she grabbed a book
    and headed right for the chair (she's really into being able to get
    in and out of chairs and sit "like a big girl" these days.)   I think
    perhaps having a "new" thing to do could be the trick.   Something
    new to look forward to or entice her.
    
    							cj *->

    Just an FYI, CJ...  When I dropped Aaron off this morning Angeline was
    her usual happy self!  Well, up until Chad took the toy hammer that she
    was playing with...  I guess kids will be kids!
    
    I think it may be the change in sleeping arrangements.  How long does
    it usually take for little ones to adjust, generally?
    
    sandy

    Someone please tell me that this too will pass. Natasha has a really
    bad case of seperation anxiety. It is made worse this week because we
    just switched her into a new daycare center. Almost everytime we leave
    her (daycare, my mother, babysitter, my brother anyone other than me
    or my husband) she cry until she vomits. She becomes frantic. The
    daycare is very good about this they just clean her up and calm her
    down, but it is driving me crazy.  My teenage babysitters are not too
    thrilled with her vomitting all over them. Natasha is 14 months and
    this clingyness has been going on for at least a month. She is not sick
    (been to the doctors 3 times), and is not alergic to anything.
    
    Any words of wisdom to keep me sane. 
    
    Oh yes as soon as my husband or I pick her up she is fine.
    
                                          Alice
    

	Hi Alice,

	Our daughter Stephanie is 14months too and is also going through
	the separation anxiety thing.  Thank goodness she's not vomiting,
        but she'll cry for about 5min.  This isn't a big deal too me, I feel
	a little bad leaving her crying, but I do think it is a phase and
	will pass, so I make my goodbyes as quick as possible and I'm out
	of there.  I'd say to ignore the vomiting, like the daycare center 
	is, just have the caretaker clean her up and go on. Getting her
	singing and dancing usually helps my sitter to get her mind off it.

	My older daughter (Kristen - 3yrs old) vomits sometimes when she
	gets really upset.  She gets herself so upset and crying that she
	starts to gag and then she'll vomit. But this has only happened
	a handful of times so it's not that bad.  We've been trying to
	catch her and give her a drink of water when the gagging starts,
	this seems to be working because it gets her mind off what she's
	upset about and gives her something to do beside gagging.  But she's
	older so I don't know if this would work for Natasha.

	Good Luck, I think it is a phase.
	Karen T.

    Alice,
    
    My girlfriend is going through something similar with her daughter. 
    Christina is very sensitive to change and became very clingy at about
    15 months old.  At this time she started getting so upset whenever her
    parents left her, that she would vomit.  She would usually vomit ON her
    mother right before she left, thus causing a big cleanup effor to take
    place.  As the months wore on Christina became better at this new
    talent, that drew everyone's attention to her.  She would start getting
    upset before her parents left and would usually vomit right before they
    left.  However, once she vomits, she is done with it, and then usually
    settles down for the sitter. Now she is just over 2
    years old and her parents are at their wits end.  They cannot find
    babysitters for her, yet are desperate for a little break once in
    awhile.  Their doctor had confirmed that there was nothing physically
    wrong with her and that she was doing this to get her way or atleast
    some attention even if it was negative.  He suggested they just place 
    her in a room (kitchen/bath) where cleanup would not be a big hassle, 
    say goodbye and reassure her they would be back in a little while 
    and just LEAVE.  They are trying this approach now and are leaving her
    with other mothers who know her  and her history and won't flip out 
    about cleaning her up. 
    
    It is very difficult for them to see their daughter get so upset, yet
    they have FINALLY realized that she is using this shock tactic to
    manipulate them.  Ofcourse this is a new thing for Natasha, so
    hopefully you can deal with it before it gets to this stage.  Good
    Luck!
    
    Kristen
    

    Ok CJ, what did Angeline say to Aaron!  Yesterday and today he really
    didn't want me to leave.  When I told him I was going "by-by" and did
    he want to walk me to the door he burst into tears (that's very much
    not like him).  So I picked him up and we sat down and cuddled until he
    was calm and ready to leave my lap.  Talk about a guilt trip.
    
    Actually the reason for this (I think) is his 1 year molars are coming
    in, so he's in pain.  I keep motrin in his diaper bag (I gave him some
    this morning) but would rather keep the use of motrin or tylenol down
    to a minimum.  I've seen a line of natural medicine treatments for
    things like pms, flu symptoms, allergies, etc and there is one for
    teething.  Has anyone tried the one for teething on your child?
    
    I really hate that he's so upset when I leave!
    
    sandy
         

    re .-1 
    
    There's an excellent homeopathic teething remedy which I buy in the UK:
    "Nelson's Teething Granules". They come in ready-dosed packets, and I
    won't go anywhere without them.
    
    They were recommended by my dental hygienist and have proved a godsend.
    
    I'll try and find out whether this company sells its products in the
    US, and if so under what name. In the meantime, talk to your dentist
    about teething remedies. If, like me, you've a hygienist who's been
    through this him/herself, they could well have information on something
    to put you (and your child!) out of your agony.
    
    I also use 'Calgel' sugar-free teething gel, from the makers of Calpol
    (US equiv. = tylenol, I think). 
    
    Jacquie
    

    Gee, Sandy,  I had no trouble from Angeline this morning :-)
    AND I got a hug (with no cling).  
    
    I know how you feel about the guilt.  It bothered me to leave 
    her when she wasn't feeling well.  But the other times, when
    I knew she was just "using" me, I didn't feel too bad about.
    
    Having to let her go to stay with her father and all has toughened
    me up a little bit to some things.  Her abscence overall is the
    worse.  
    						cj *->