Conference moira::parenting

If you're not comfortable with your doctor, then by all means switch.  In
hindsight, I thought about switching doctors but didn't because it was my
first pregnancy, and I was still intimidated by doctors.  I should have 
listened to my instincts and switched.

I'll have to say, though, that even though you have a particular doctor, I
don't think you can count on that doctor delivering your baby. There's always
the possibility that she will already be delivering a baby when you go 
into labor, or is on vacation, or sick or whatever such that you will get
one of the other doctors in the practice.  That's why they want you to meet
everyone.

When I delivered, I finally decided I knew what I wanted, and got rid of the
first OB because of a personality conflict.  It's amazing how comfortable
you get in making snap decisions when you're in hard labor. In my case, 
I didn't know any of the staff doctors because I delivered so early and
was at a different hospital than planned.  But I still needed to have 
confidence in my doctor.  I definitely think I made the right decision.

And I also wouldn't worry too much about your doctor's note about checking 
on the baby's size.  It is possible that that's what she put in the chart
so that the insurance would cover the ultrasound that you wanted.  The 
mistake on the radiologist's part shouldn't be blamed on the OB.

Cathy

    
    Dawne,
    
    I can't reply to the ultrasound situation. But as far as seeing other
    doctors or who delivers the baby I can respond to. I have been seeing
    my present dr for 5yrs now. When I was pregnant with my 1st in 1990, I
    saw him most of my prenatal visits except the occasional 1 or 2 that he
    was not in the office or on vacation.  I saw one other dr during during
    that pregnancy and had no problems....I delivered on labor day weekend
    and my dr was not available. It kind of ticked me off that the dr I saw
    for almost 9 months would not be there to deliver my daughter. Turns out
    the dr that I saw once or twice ended up delivering her. Everything was
    fine and he was very nice but it just wasn't the same.  I remember when
    I went for my first prenatal visit back then, the nurse asked if I
    minded seeing other dr's in the practice if my dr was not available, I
    said that I didn't mind. So I did have a choice in my case. If i said
    no they probably would have made sure I had appts with only him. 
    
    I was a little uncomfortable knowing that this other dr didn't know a
    thing about my pregnancy besides what he read in my chart, and to me 
    it was not personal care. But you have the right to feel the way you
    do, it is your pregnancy and health your concerened about and I would
    have a heart to heart with your original dr, maybe she can recommend
    another female dr to you which will make you more at ease.
    
    As for me I'm due in 7 wks with #2, I hope my dr is there to deliver
    this one this time!    
    
    take care and don't worry, I'm sure things will work out for the best..
    Sandy 
                                              

    Dawnne,
    listen to YOUR instincts; its YOUR body and YOUR baby!
    I recall in the last volume of this conference, someone had just such a 
    delema and decided, late in the pregnancy, to switch. Boy was she
    ever happy! 
    There is a chance, however, that no matter how good your doc is, she/he
    may not be there to deliver, depending on who is on duty when you go
    into labour. You may still get a doctor you do not care for, or 
    you may get someone you like even more than your own (the latter
    case happened to my mom on two occasions.)
    BTW, my Doc was 26 weeks pregnant with twins when I delivered. Only
    after everything was over did I realize the situation was very funny:
    here I was ready to deliver my 9 pound baby, when all the nurses were
    concerned about was her comfort! (what's more is that the room
    was a brand newly renovated Labour&Delivery room, and the nurses had
    never used it before so they didn't know where everything was!)
    
    Anyway, trust yourself, and don't let them bowl you over.
    Good luck,
    
    Monica

    I did have a conversation with my doctor on my last visit.  I told her
    I wasn't comfortable with someone else delivering my baby, that I
    really wanted her to be there.  I was at least looking to find out if
    she had vacation time scheduled.  That was when she told me she was
    pregnant and due at the same time.  I hadn't noticed before, but was
    starting to wonder on that visit.  She let me know that the doctor is
    actually only in there for a few minutes and that the nurses are always
    there and there wasn't anything to be uncomfortable of.  When I asked
    her about other female doctor's she said there was one all female
    practice but my insurance didn't cover it.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure
    if I believe her.  I mean, I'm sure they want to keep my business.  And
    she didn't seem very concerned with how I was feeling.  Yes, it was a
    bit intimidating to me too.  I almost feel that she has deceived me and
    I wonder if it will continue to happen.
    
    Also, the visits are very short.  The last two all she did was listen
    to the heartbeat and ask me if I have any questions.  I do have some,
    but I'm a bit inexperienced and don't know what questions to ask.  She
    doesn't seem to be offering me much information either.  Is this
    normal?  If it hadn't been for the books I've been reading, I *still*
    wouldn't know what was going on!
    
    Dawnne
    
    been for the books I've bee

    Dawne,
    
    Ask any and all questions you have.  Otherwise you'll never know the
    answer.  Her statement about what your labor and delivery will be like
    is probably more true than not.  You will be in the care of the nurses
    and staff alot more than her.  She will probably pop in for 5 minutes
    visits every few hours until you are fully dialated.  Then she will
    remain until the baby is born - and disappear again.  I don't want it
    to sound harsh, but that's the way it is.  
    
    My first was born exactly 4 weeks early.  We disagreed on the time of
    conception, but I couldn't convince him.  So we did the ultrasound and
    he felt things were on track for his suggested date.  I had a healthy 6
    pounder who the pedi says was probably 2-3 weeks early - but definately
    not 4.  This didn't change how I felt about my OB, though.  I was in
    labor in the hospital from 2:00 am until his birth at 6:00 pm.  I did
    not see the doctor the whole time - just when things started to really
    progress.  He even went home for dinner at 5:00 only to be called back
    at 5:15.
    
    My second was born during a holiday.  OB was not there during my labor. 
    The other doctor was - and I had only seen him once prior.  I was not
    comfortable with the second man, but I couldn't stop mother nature.  I
    was in labor from 2:00 in the afternoon until 11:00 pm - however, my
    doctor (checked me in before leaving on his holiday) knew I was there
    and did return at 10:30 (he called to see if I delivered yet) to
    "finish the job".  I was truly appreciative!
    
    Again, if you are uncomfortable - change.  It is completely your
    decision and you must feel comfortable with your level of care.  Take
    time to spend with the doctor in the office talking.  It will help ease
    your tension to build up a relationship...especially if you are both
    fairly new to each other.  I had known my OB since I was 18 and had my
    first child at the age of 28.  In fact, since I've moved to NH, I
    haven't found one I like as well - I'm on my third one (though no
    pregnancy).
    
    -sandy
    
    

    
    ha! I know what you mean, I have spent more time in the waiting room
    than in the exam room. My visits usually run a good hr, that's 50
    minutes waiting to be called, 7 minutes in the exam room waiting for
    the dr and 3 minutes talking to him!  He always asks me if I have any
    questions but I never do. I am a pregnancy and childbirth reading
    nut...so most of my questions are usually answered before I get there.
    He says to me one day, I wish all my patience were as easy as you...gee
    I wonder why...I have read so much about it I could be an obstetrician
    myself. 
    
    Back to the subject...
    
    Sandy

    Dawnne,
    
    Everyone is right on track with this one.  
    
    I had a baby boy 6 months ago and I remember feeling the
    same way you do.  This was my first, I had no idea what to
    expect, I wanted to know that the doctor that I saw for the
    next 9 months would deliver my baby, I wanted a woman doctor,
    I didn't know what questions to ask, thought the office visits 
    were very short, I was even scheduled for an ultrasound for 
    the same reasons, that I was larger than I should be for that
    time.  My due date was originally December 8 and the ultrasound
    showed November 26.  They stayed with my original date and
    my baby was born on November 22nd.  Whatever you do, go with
    the date that is earlier, even if you think they are wrong.  
    I worked up until November 18th and lost my 2 weeks maternity 
    leave before the baby was born.  If I went with the November 26
    date, I would have been out of work around the 12th or so.  
    
    I decided to see the mid-wives because their were 3 and I
    was guaranteed that one of them would deliver my baby.
    Well, Doctor "X" delivered my baby.  I can't even remember
    his name.  My mid-wife was delivering another baby and I
    went so quickly she didn't get there in time.
    
    You need to be comfortable with your doctor and don't worry
    if he/she is there when you deliver the baby. You have a
    little baby growing inside of you, you don't need to be
    stressed out about this.  Decide what is best for you and the
    baby and go from there.   If that means changing doctors, then
    do it.  When the time comes though, you probably aren't
    going to care if your actual doctor is there or not.   
    You will be focusing on your labor and on your beautiful 
    new baby!
    
    Ask tons of questions!  Write them down when you think of
    them and bring your list to your next appointment.   Don't be afraid 
    to ask anything either.  I asked some pretty stupid questions and
    felt 100% better after my doctor answered them. 
    
    Enjoy this time as it only gets better as the months go
    by and I mean that in a positive way.  The end result is
    a miracle!
    
    Denise

Dawn,

I also agree that if you feel that your doctor is not giving you the level of
care you are looking for, find another. But first talk see if you can find
someone with a good reputation. Talk to your friends, female coworkers, etc.
that live in your area. You certainly wouldn't want to switch without knowing
anything about the doc, you may wind up in the same situation or worse.

I can understand your only wanting a female doctor but don't shoot the men
down. My obgyn is male and he is a wonderful doctor and he's very personable.
Many people told me chances were that he wouldn't be the one to deliver my
daughter but he was. He also knew that my husband was apprehensive about being
in the delivery room during the birth and he walked my husband through that
as well. My husband was very impressed with him too.

As far as questions go, I'd say ask them anyway even if you have been doing
alot of reading. I read everything I could get my hands on but books and
articles are written mostly by m.d.'s and I think it's nice to get different
views. Questions can have a way of popping out of your head when your "on
the examining table" so write them down on a little note pad as you think of
them and bring it with you to your appointment. Believe me, they will not 
think this is odd. One of the qualities I like in a doctor is that they explain
things to you (i.e.procedures, what causes "this" and why).

Good luck and *enjoy* your pregnancy! It's a wonderful time for you!

Michelle 

Well Dawnne,

Consider yourself lucky.  Harvard Community does NOT cover ultrasounds and 
my doctor has a written note from the president stating so.  (Unless of 
course you encounter a problem in the due date or something else.)  The 
reason being so is because several hundred dollars, closer to a thousand 
is spent for ultrasounds and alot are only to determine the sex of the 
baby which is not a reasonable reason for them.  I happen to agree (sorry) and 
was very upset that my doctor would not perform on at all because of this,
cept for the original one at 8 weeks to determine due date.  This (due 
date) along with other questions I have have still not given them reason
enough.  I would be intersested in knowing if this was your first 
ultrasound and how you got permission.

On another note, I have had the same frustrations with my OB.  I called 
him about some pain in my right leg the other day and didn't receive a 
call back until I called the third time.  Course he was busy delivering 
but I thought the nurse should of returned my call.  Although the problem 
was considered normal, being a first time pregnancy I had no idea.  I also get 
the two minute appointment but we are lucky in some respects because no 
news is good news.  

cj

    When I was pregnant, I detested one of the doctors in my ob-gyn group. 
    I'm generally pretty flexible, but this man treated me callously more
    than once, and that I do  not forgive in a doctor.
    
    My primary had made it clear that whichever doctor was on duty would
    handle my delivery.  What do do?
    
    I made a stink.  I told them I would refuse to let this man into the
    same room with me.  Several times I repeated what he had said and done
    with me, and that I would not let him treat me at all, and would sooner
    leave the practice than know he might handle my delivery.  My primary
    and one or two other doctors tried to reassure me that this doctor was a
    very good clinician.  I said I didn't care.  No go.
    
    Eventually the group resolved the issue to my satisfaction.  They
    determined that if my time came when this particular doctor was on
    duty, that someone else would come on call to care for me.
    
    I ended up with a scheduled C-section with my beloved primary doctor
    assisted by one of the others.  Never saw the detested one again.
    
    All's well that ends well.
    
    My group's policy is that you must have at least one routine
    appointment with each group member so you get to know them all.  If
    your group doesn't mandate this, I recommend that you set it up
    yourself.
    
    Laura

    on a side note:
    cj:
    What I usually do when I have a question for the doc and want to phone
    her, is I ask the receptionist to speak to her nurse, specifically.
    The probability of her being available is higher, and sometimes she
    could answer my question herself. If not she will get the doctor
    to phone, or book an appointment with her.
    
    Monica

    Yes, that was my first ultrasound.  When I had my very first visit with
    my doctor, I asked her about having an ultrasound.  I mentioned that I
    wanted to know ahead of time if my baby would be a boy or girl.  She
    told me that when the time came, she'd set up the appointment.  That is
    why I was surprised when I was told that she thought I was bigger than
    I should be, but after talking with my mom, I figure that was written
    down for insurance purposes only.
    
    Turns out it was a good thing because I got a call back on the
    ultrasound and seems I'm low-normal in amniotic fluid.  They said that
    is not a problem, but they are going to schedule another ultrasound in
    8 weeks to check on that.
    
    I do write down whatever questions I think of to ask, but I never
    thought to ask her in the beginning if she was pregnant, and I'm sure
    there are lots of questions that just don't come to my mind.  I mean, 
    what do I know about all this stuff?
    
    I know what matters most is that my son is healthy and there is no
    problem with the delivery, but it *is* my body and I should have a say
    in who I want to see/touch it.
    
    Thank you all for your advice and comments.  I truely enjoy reading
    about other's situations I just hope that none of them were truely
    unpleasant.
    
    
    Dawnne
    

    Well a little different perspective...
    
    I agree with everyone, go with your instinct.  FWIW, I had a midwife
    and recommend it highly (it was through an HMO).  There is a note on 
    midwife vs. doctor.
    
    But even with mid-wifes (on an HMO) you end up with the one who is on call.
    My delivery was fast but my experience was it's the delivery and labor
    nurse you get to know intimately.  And mine was great!  If only you
    could meet them during your maternity office visits.  My husband was
    away on business so "Rosie" was my coach.  But in talking to other
    mothers who have delivered - it's the labor/delivery nurse 9 times out
    of 10 that is always there for/with you.
                                       

    
    Here in the UK we see our local GP (doctor) and community midwife on
    alternate ante-natal visits.  Neither one delivers your baby, that is
    done by whoever is on duty at the hospital at the time.
    
    The community midwife visits you at home each days for five days after
    you return from hospital, then once a week for six weeks - just to
    check that you're getting on okay, answer any questions you may have
    etc.  My midwife is also pregnant and due at the same time as me, which
    is a shame for me because I really like her and she will obviously not
    be available to do my home visits after the birth, so I'll have to get
    used to someone else!
    
    I don't know much about the way things work over there, even though my
    parents lived in the States for six years and both my sister and I were
    born there!  I'll have to ask my mum a bit more about what it was like,
    then I'll be able to relate better (mind you, I expect things have
    changed in 24 years?).
    
    Sam
    

	Any group practice will have standard procedures that they follow
	for deliveries.  In the practice I use, if your baby is born
	between 8 and 5 (rough guidelines, my doctor is usually roaming the
	hospital at 7 am and quits around 6pm) Monday through Friday, your
	own doctor will deliver your baby.  Any other time, you get the
	doctor that's on call.

	I understand being uncomfortable with your doctor; I changed
	OB's after my miscarriage based mostly on instinct.  However,
	a few of the things you mentioned are normal procedure for
	maternity visits.  My prenatal visits were about 5 minutes long.
	There's not really any need to make them longer if you're healthy!

	Also, I'm not sure I feel that the doctor needed to tell you about
	her pregnancy from the start.  It's her pregnancy, and it's up to
	her to decide who and when to tell.  She may have believed that since
	you were going to a group practice, you knew that your delivery would
	be handled by the doctor on call, so there was no need to tell you
	she'd be out.

	If you have strong feelings that you want a new doctor, by all means,	
	find one.  Just understand that you will experience some of these
	things wherever you go.  When searching, be sure to ask the policy 
	regarding deliveries.

	Good luck,
	Karen

Dawnne,

By all means, change doctors if you are uncomfortable.  The visits sound
pretty typical though, they get more detailed and longer (at least with
my doctors) as time progresses.

I, too, thought about a switch around 20-22 weeks with my last pregnancy
as I wasn't thrilled with my appointments.  This was my second child but
my first was born 2 months premature and I was more concerned about things
than ever.  Fortunately my doctors (a group) hired a mid-wife and I began
to see her pretty much exclusively.  I had seen each of the other doctors
at least once though just in case the midwife wasn't available...you can't
guarentee your delivery date and time.  She was great, spent at least 15
minutes per appointment, sat with me after the exams to talk....I felt real
comfortable....

....well, my daughter decided to make her appearance on Christmas Day,
two weeks before my due date.  None of my doctors were available, it seems
they switch off Christian holidays with a team of Jewish doctors and I got
a complete stranger.  After giving him a REAL hard time at the hospital,
I actually got very comfortable with him and was thrilled that he was so
nice about everything ;-).  It's true the nurses spend more of the labor
time with you than the dr., but you have to be comfortable with whoever it
is helping to get that baby out.

Guess the point is that there are no guarantees but try to get the peace of
mind now, not when your thoughts and concerns are geared towards delivering
that healthy baby!

Marji.

I've had three babies, and *none* of them were delivered by "my" doctor.
The one on call is the one you get.  I had a terrible time when my second
son was born, so when I was pregnant with my third, I told my doctor there was 
no way I was going to let the other guy touch me again.  My due date was a
Thursday: my doctor was on call the whole weekend before.  I had an appointment
with him on Tuesday.  He was going to induce me Wednesday, if I hadn't gone
before.  You guessed it-- I went into labor on Monday.  Who was on call?  The
doctor I detested.  But you know, he did a great job.  I was also so far along
that he only had time to catch the baby on his way out.  :-)

Before you go changing doctors, you need to make sure your expectations are
reasonable.  You also run the risk of getting someone worse.  From what you've
described, you're getting typical treatment.  If you don't have questions,
the exam lasts only a few minutes. I used to count on a half hour wait in the 
waiting room, and a 15 to 20 minute wait in the examining room.  The exam 
itself wasabout 5 minutes.  If you truly aren't comfortable with your midwife 
doctor, whatever), by all means change doctors.  But from what I've read,
she's doing what most of them do...

What prompted me to write was something in your last note.  You said that you
have say over who will see and touch *your* body.  Well...  yes and no.  I've 
always been very shy, and I was not prepared for what delivery was like.   I had two
two nurses who, it seemed to me, were up to their elbows in me.  Yuck.  But the 
nurses have to check the progress of your dilation.  When the doctor showed up,
he did the same.  At times it seems like everyone on the floor is there for the 
show.  I'm not trying to scare you, but be prepared for a doctor (or midwife)
and two nurses seeing and touching you.  And when you're recovering, there will
be more nurses checking things out...

Pam

    Pam, good point--there IS NO MODESTY in the delivery room!  (Dave Barry
    does a wonderful bit on this in _Babies_and_Other_Hazards_of_Sex.)
    
    But, at least for me, it wasn't humiliating... it's just that giving
    birth is such a HUGE, universe-turning-on-this-moment type of event
    that the concept of "modesty" seemed totally irrelevant and cosmetic
    and petty.  There does seem to be a cast of thousands in attendance...
    but then as Most Important Person in the Universe :-)  you require these
    servants!
    
    Leslie 

While I'm not a particularly modest person, I didn't like
the idea of total strangers wandering in and out while I
was in a vulnerable state.  So, I talked to everyone who
would listen, like the midwifes, the labor nurses, my
husband, etc, and told them I didn't want any extra people
coming in.  My husband was given the task of booting
unnecessary people out.

For my first daughter, people were very good about it.
The midwife noted my request on the standing orders, so
even the hospital paperwork people were good about it.

For the second, they were not (different hospital and
midwife).  My husband had never met the midwife, and she
didn't even bother to introduce herself to *him* when she
first came into the labor room.  We were unimpressed.

So, give it a try.  With support from your doctor or
midwife you can get more than average privacy.

Pat

    What I found happened during both labors is in the early stages
    at the hospital, those who came in were very apologetic and 
    careful around me. The anesthesiologist asked permission to enter
    the draped bed area, the nurses and doctors announced their arrival.
    At first I was covered carefully hiding as much skin as humanly
    possible with those undignified hospital gowns. As things progressed, 
    little by little these courtesies and concerns of modesty dissappeared
    and subsequently, I didn't care anymore who or what came into my
    room. CBS from New York could have come in with a full film crew and
    their families and I wouldn't have cared. 
    
    Jodi-

    This should make you smile:
    
    I recall reading about one of the ancient Mediterranean societies
    (Greek Islands?).  It was strongly matriarchal and revered women. 
    The town square had a special niche for women in labor.  They labored
    and gave birth surrounded by every one in the town!  
    
    L

    
    I found a cartoon on this that made me smile (in remembrance)
    
    The woman is thinking to herself (as a large group gathers to watch the
    birth)... "and to think I used to be embarrased if anyone glimpsed my
    underwear!"
    
    
    Jamd
    

    I have a funny.  At the birth of my first child I too started out very
    modest.  It lasted 10 seconds since my pregnancy was moving very fast -
    about 4 hours from first twang of labor to having baby.  Just before
    transition a nurse came in and said that they had a student nurse there
    today and this nurse had never *been in attendance* during a birth and
    would I mind if this student stepped in.  Well, I couldn't believe what
    came out of my mouth but I said sure!  In steps this guy - yea - and he
    was real young and clean cut looking and I thought - oh my - this could
    be interesting.  Well - he was the peaches and cream of the process -
    always asking what I needed - what my husband needed and was very
    concerned about everything!  With the other staff, it was a run of the
    mill kind of work day - not so with him!  I am proud that I was the
    first birth he had seen and he was just as proud as my husband was
    when my daughter was born - the guy literally hovered over me all
    day and the best of all - he literally had tears in his eyes at one
    point just after the birth. 
    
    Believe me - there was no modesty that day!  I still can't believe
    that I let this guy in but when the moment arrived I could have
    cared less about much more than getting that baby out!

    Home birth is probably the only way to be sure that you 
    "expose yourself" to just people *you* choose.
    
    I find being a parent to be quite a public condition. It starts
    with pregnancy and continues. 
    
    Lucy

    .0
    
    Dawne,
    
    I also went through the same situation that you went through with my
    Doctor not being responsive.  I finally switch.  I also wanted a female
    Doctor but my GYN highly recommended a male Doctor.  I was so afraid (I
    had never gone to a male OB/GYN before), so I took my husband with me.  
    This Doctor did not have the bedside manners that I would have liked but he
    was great.  I had a lot of fibroid tumors in my uterous and he let me
    know every visit what to expect.  I ended up having a C-section but I
    didn't care I had a healthy baby boy and that is all I cared about.  I
    still go to this male Doctor for my yearly visits but after I'm done
    having my babies I will probably switch back to my female Doctor.
    
    Also I was lucky when I was in the hospital, I had all female nurses.  
    It is true that a lot of people will be checking you and at that point 
    you don't care.
    
    My recommendation is switch now.  I don't feel it's every to late.  You
    can request your Doctor that you have now to switch your records (that's
    what I did).
    
    Good luck with your pregnancy.  It was the best thing I ever did, and
    hope to do it again soon.
    
    

    If you are uncomfortable, you owe it to yourself to work to resolve
    that issue.   I had a very good Doctor for my 1st pregnancy, he was
    head of OB/Gyn at a HMO.  He also only gave me 5 minutes of his time
    after 50 minutes in the waiting room. (this was 1981, hopefully things
    change but from these notes I don't think so.) He Objected to everyone
    of my concerns, Episomity, draping, enemas,  who's on call, how many in
    room, use of birthing room, no meds, how long to wait before inducing,
    what criteria he would use to call for a c-section, and I always thought 
    I was inconveniencing him if I asked questions that would stretch the visit 
    past 5 minutes.  I always thought he didn't know I had any body parts 
    above the uterus because he never really talked to me, he talked to my 
    belly button or below 8^).  He was obviously very well trained and highly 
    recommended. 
    
    Anyway, when my 2 weeks before due date came, and I was finally out of
    work, I had 100% of my time to decide what kind of birth experience I
    wanted.   I called around and found a lay midwife and decided to have
    my son at home.   I live in NH so this is legal.  I felt that I was
    having the baby, not the doctor, and I wanted the SUPPORT, not someone
    taking over the process.   I engaged a great Midwifery practice out of
    Concord.  Everyone is right that you can't predict who is on call when
    your child decides to make an appearance, so I met with all the
    midwifes, (2 with 2 apprentices) typically 2 at a time.  Also this practice 
    was backed up by a very reputable OB/GYN. You had to meet strict 
    requirements and not have any risk factors as the midwifes only support 
    NORMAL deliveries, and they keep a watchful eye for any complications. 
    
    There were no formal appointments, just visiting hours, so you may wait 
    for 1/2 hr to 45 minutes, But if you needed 1/2 hr to 45 min of exam time 
    you were given it, AND no one waiting ever got impatient. It was incredible.
    I had spent over 8 months going to visit my OB and never had a conversation
    with another patient in the waiting room, but at the midwife's we all sat 
    around and swapped stories.  They even had a notebook in the waiting room 
    for you to share weird dreams in. And pictures of other births that
    grateful patients left for them (our son's birth is in that book, so
    much for modesty)
    
    When my son was born, they arrived at my house at 9:00PM, he was born at 
    2:19 am, and they stayed and cleaned up, made breakfast, taught me how to 
    nurse.  came back the next day too.  They were very professional and
    most important to me very personal.   I felt pampered, and like they were 
    dear friends.  I chose to have my daughter at home also, and it was a
    great experience too.  
    
    There is a big caveat to this.  I don't carelessly recommend that
    people have home births, it clearly isn't for everyone.  You have to
    be willing to take full responsibility for that choice, and the choice
    shouldn't be made lightly.   But you should know all the choices you
    can make, and that right up till you have the baby the choice to change
    doctors is your choice (barring bogus HMO rules)  btw, I wasn't covered
    by the HMO, cus they won't cover home birth, but they wouldn't
    guarantee a midwife in the hospital either.   You don't need to go to
    what some of my family called 'that extreme' but you can find someone
    who is receptive to your needs.  I always felt that just because that
    level of support was typical, doesn't mean it is right, and that I have
    the right to get what I needed.    Good luck, after it's over, mostly
    you remember how wonderful it is anyway!!!!
    
    Beth

    I was highly recommended to my Dr. by several people and had him
    perform an operation to remove a cyst in October.  I thought when I got
    pregnant, "what a better doctor to have then one who knows my body". 
    
    Unfortunately, with every visit I get more and more frustrated about
    his attitude.  I get more answers from the nurses.
    
    I have been complaining about leg pain now for 3 weeks and have called
    the doctor twice a week.  I finally get in for my monthly appointment
    and was told, "your baby is fine, you are fine.  This is an uneventful
    pregnancy and I don't know what else you expect me to tell you".  Well,
    what about the pain doctor?  What about the fact that I can't move? 
    "Its ligaments and some women have it for the rest of their pregnancy". 
    10 weeks I declared, not me, there has got to be something else I can
    do!  He says,  "NO, there is not, try exercising again" and proceeded to
    walk out of the office!!!  I told him I had more questions for him (as
    I write down all questions for my monthly appointments) and he gives a
    HEAVY sigh and says, "what now?" so I ask about my cats and rashes and
    he tells me "Well, its too late to take another test anyways, read your
    book!" Huh?  How comes its too late?  Why didn't you take the test?  I
    am not a doctor, how am I supposed to know when tests should be done
    and what ones should be done?   This is my first pregnancy, work with
    me!
    
    I called Harvard Community and was told that basically, and
    unfortunately, all OB's are like this and if the baby is fine, their
    main concern is taken care of.  See an orthopedic doctor for the leg
    pain, which I did.  I was told I had torn ligaments and needed physical
    therapy for 3 weeks and to work no less than 4 hours a day for 3 days a
    week! 
    
    My husband is now so upset about the doctors attitude that he wants me
    to switch.  Are they all really like this?  Entering my third trimester
    is it worthwhile to change so late without knowing if this doctor is
    even going to perform the delivery?  What about talking to the nurses?
    
    cj
    
    

    	It is always important to remember that when you work with a Dr.
    you are both a customer (and therefore should be happy with the
    treatment that you are buying) and you are a partner (and therefore
    should be happy with the treatment you are agreeing to).

    	Never, never, never, put up with unacceptable behavior from anyone.

    	Reread your note, and listen to your heart, it will tell you
    exactly what you need to do in this situation.

    			Wendy

   And to answer your other question... no, not all doctors are like
   that.  My wife, and certainly many folks in this conference, have had
   much less frustrating treatment from their respective doctors.
   
   - Tom

    I just have to relate a complete opposite side of the coin, with my OB. 
    He is just so caring, during my first labor and delivery (an inutero
    death at term) he was sensitive to schedule me to be induced within 12
    hoursof discovering the baby was gone.  He wasn't there when I arrived
    at 7:00 am for induction, and the senior resident asked if I wanted to
    wait for him, or could she insert the first prostaglandin suppository,
    I let her do it.  But he was there the whole 10 hours of labor, he made
    personal checks of my progress, made sure I was comfortable, and
    according to my husband he was in the L&D area a good couple hours.  He
    too shed some tears when we finally delivered, and the reality of a non
    living baby was right in front of us.
    
    With AJ's pregnancy, every conceivable test was done, up to and
    including an ultrasound at 6 weeks pregnant, just so we could both (the
    doctor and me) see the heartbeat.  He was as elated as me to see a tiny
    beating heart.  He actually postponned his vacation until after my
    delivery.  He came into my room one night, after visiting hours.  My
    husband was there and it wasn't doctor to patient conversation, it was
    like I was chatting with a friend.  He said he was just hanging out,
    because someone was about to deliver and he wanted to stay close.  He
    looked exhausted, and we commented on it.  He said there had been a lot
    of deliveries the past couple days, a few complicated like mine, but
    that's when he looked at us and said "I can go on vacation now, since I
    know you're going to be OK".  Oh and when he discovered my low amniotic
    fluid, and decided on a quick, but preterm, C-section he looked me
    square in the eye and said "you've had enough emotional roller coaster
    with these two pregnancies, let's get it over now!"  He said I can't
    gurantee that the baby's lungs will be mature, just it will be over
    4-1/2 pounds.  If we wait any longer it may not be a live birth.
    
    He is just so understanding, almost like he feels my pain and stress.
    
    FWIW, ALL of his staff are RN's, he doesn't have any clerical help. 
    The woman who books appts is also the nurse who assists him, weighs you
    in checks your urine and blood pressure.  and everyone of his staff
    have never given me a bad answer to a "dumb" question, and boy I think
    I've had some read dumb questions!!
    
    Just as an aside, although he is an individual doctor, he shares the
    office with two or three others, and asked me to at least meet the
    covering doctors in a office visit, just in case he wasn't available
    during a problem or the delivery.
    
    sorry to ramble, I just want you to know there really are sensitive
    doctors out there.
    Lyn
    

    I asked a question from a doctor I was referred to from my HMO last
    week.  The question had to do with physiologically why I was
    experiencing some sypmtoms the way I was.  His reply was:  'your not
    trained to understand medical issues like this'.  He never did answer
    the question.
    
    What do you think of the answer he gave me?  Is he right? Yes, sort of
    but thats not the point.  He should have explained it in a way an
    imbecile like me COULD have understood.  Smile
    
    Jeff

    Moderators please bear with me:  A joke follows.
    
    There were a bunch of people waiting in line at the Pearly Gates to get
    into Heaven.  A guy with a doctors bag walked past the line and right
    in through the gates.  One line stander to another said:
    
    "Who's that guy think HE is butting the line like that!"
    
    Another line stander:  "Oh, thats God, he thinks he's a doctor"
    
    

    Jeff,

    	Of course your Dr. should have worked with you to make you
    understand what was happening.

    	You gave your power away to the Dr. when you let his answer be the
    final statement (Although I'm sure that you were surprised and didn't
    have a comeback).

    	Next time you will be prepared to say something like:

    	"oh, but I'm interested in the process, could you help me to
    understand it?"

    	If the Dr. still refused to explain anything, then you would have a
    decision to make wouldn't you?

    			Wendy

    It makes me uncomfortable that he wouldn't answer.  Not that the 
    answer was important... but the fact that he declined to answer I
    thought WAS important.  He was busy, (no excuse).  
    
    I was so suprised that an appropriate comeback didn't occur to me
    until the moment had passed.
    
    That incident alone is enough to have me find another doctor.  BUT
    he is an HMO referral which means that if I don't use HIM health
    care won't pay for my treatments.  Guess I may have a decision to make
    as you said.
    
    Gave away my power? For the moment maybe.  It never occured to me that
    it was a power battle.  If it IS... then he is the wrong doctor.
    
    How'd you like the joke?
    
    Jeff

    Jeff,
    
    Even with HMO's you have options, trust me!  Call the HMO and complain. 
    The HMO does have a vested interest in keeping you reasonably happy, as
    they want the business you are giving them to continue.  
    
    Busy is no excuse for not answering a reasonably asked question.  If
    this doctor can't put a medical condition into terms a lay-person can
    understand, then I would wonder just how much this Dr. knows about my
    condition.  
    
    Meg

    Jeff,
    
    I know I can never think of snappy comebacks at the time I need them,
    but if my doctor had said that to me, I hope I would have said "No, but
    YOU are trained to EXPLAIN medical issues like these to PATIENTS LIKE
    ME who PAY YOU FOR YOUR TRAINING."
    
    While I'm all worked up on someone else's behalf  :-)  I've been
    meaning to ask the Parenting folks what they think of this.  Last time
    I took Alex for a checkup (she's 8.5), I told the pedi that I was
    embarrassed that I'd never asked before, but what was Alex's blood
    type?  Guess what, she DIDN'T KNOW.  She said it would only have been
    tested if one of the parents were RH- (we're not).
    
    Well, I was already steamed about some of their office admin procedures
    so I decided to bite my tongue, not having any *immediate* need for
    Alex's blood type.  But isn't that ODD?  They stick the newborn in the
    foot for one standard test that I know of; wouldn't it be logical to
    get an extra drop for the so-easy-you-can-do-it-in-freshman-biology-
    class test?  (Yeah, I know, if it's so easy why don't I do it?  'Cause
    I'm not a bio teacher and don't know where to get the test stuff.)
    
    So now I have a note in my daytimer to request a blood typing at Alex's
    next checkup, and I'm feeling like a cross between a Victim Patient and
    an anal retentive Problem Parent.  But dammit.... isn't blood typing
    "crustimony proseedcake" (as Pooh would say)?
    
    Leslie

Getting back to Jeff, I'd had HMO doctors treat me that way.  I just call the
HMO office, make a formal complaint, and ask for another doctor.  In one
case, I was able to work out my differences with the doctor.  In another
case, my complaint was forwarded to the referral hospital/doctor where
I was able to work a few things out.  And in a few other cases, the HMO
cancelled their contracts with that doctor/service provider.  You can
ask an HMO for another doctor whether that be within their own staff or
getting another outside referral. It's not unusual, and it's how they
gauge how well their patients are being treated by the reference doctors
who they are paying real money to resolve some of these problems.  If you
don't complain to them, they think everything is just fine.  I do find it
more effective, however, if you complain and propose a solution which helps
them to help you.

I always assume that my HMO doesn't provide poor service on purpose, but
that they think they are providing adequate service until someone tells
them otherwise.  I have not been disappointed yet in getting the service
I feel I am paying for, and I also seem to have developed a good relationship
with the HMO administration office.  The old squeaky wheel gets the grease,
and can also help things to improve for other people who may not speak
up.

Cathy

    On the blood typing... if the need to give the child blood arises they
    will check the blood type anyway.  But, I know what you mean.  One
    would think ones' pediatrician would know everything about ones' child.
    Well, they don't unfortunately.  We just hope they know ENOUGH when we
    need them for our kids or selves.
    
    I already called the HMO and asked for a different referral.  They are
    going to get back to me they said.  I am after FIRST, a technically
    competent doctor.  The bedside manner is nice but not the most
    important consideration.  If you get both your in GOOD shape.
    
    The Dr. was constantly referring to my chart as we had the office
    visit.  I know that they see lots of patients and can't remember all
    the details about every patient... but I wondered at all the chart
    referral.  It was OBVIOUS he was doing ALL his catching up with my case
    as I sat in his office with him.  Is this ok?  All that catching up in
    front of me?  He seemed VERY rushed but seemed to cover all the bases
    on my case... as long as I didn't ask difficult questions.  Ha.
    
    Jeff

Some of the previous notes talk about blood type.  If you want to reply to 
those notes, please do so in topic 560.

Clay Satow
co-mod