Conference moira::parenting

    Brian,
    
    We have lots of kids in the neighborhood and they all go to school
    together, so we see a lot of them.  Boundaries.  the eleven-year-old
    checks in if she is going off our street and block.  this is the same
    boundary she has had since she was 7.  the almost 4-year-old isn't
    allowed out of the yard without a sister at this time.  However, as she
    gets to know Aries up the street and the weather gets good enough for
    sidewalk bikes she will be out on the sidewalk with clearance from one
    of us.  We have extremely small yards, in my part of town so the front
    of the house and sidewalks are the place to play when the kids are too
    young to go to the park without a parent.  
    
    I don't worry much about the kids as when the weather is good enough
    for them to be out, there is at least one neighbor on a front porch,
    usually more and we all know each other.  Frank has been an at home
    parent, and there are several others in the neighborhood as well as a
    few retired people.  If we lived in a bedroom comunity I would probably
    feel differently.  
    
    meg

    Our son is only 3 1/2 so we have yet to experience him playing in other
    yard in our neighborhood.  He has only been allowed over our neighbors
    house once and the kids (her grandchildren) had to ask their parents if
    it was ok for him to come over.  They haven't asked again.  Hmmm..
    makes me wonder now. :^)
    
    Actually, the norm for our neighborhood is for all of the kids in the
    area to come to our home lately.  My husband is a kid at heart, and
    when Paul is out there is always a parent out with him (most of the
    time, his dad because he is working in the yard).  We live in a lake
    community and the houses are close together and yards are small.  Most
    of the time its just the houses directly next to our house but I have
    seen once or twice some kids further down the road.  My husband thinks
    its great and make everyone feel welcome.  However, I have stressed my
    concern that the children make sure their parents know that they are at
    our home.
    
    I will be concerned as Paul gets older because we are so close to the
    lake.  Paul is not allowed to play in the front yard or street at all;
    even if the other children are playing in the street, hockey and such. 
    Most of these kids are older (about 8) but I've seen children as young
    as 5 playing in the streets.  Although our speed limit is 20 I still
    get scared because every once in a while you will see a car drive much
    faster than they should.  Adults are out in force on weekends doing
    yard work so its a pretty safe bet that the kids are going to interact.  
    
    Just a small story.  Paul last daycare provider has a son who is 8
    years old and told his mom that he was playing down the road with a
    friend.  She asked that he call her when he got there.  After he left
    she noticed a beat up car going slowly down the neighborhood.  After it
    circled several times she called the police and reported a suspicious
    looking vehicle in the neighborhood.  Come to find out this person was
    just let out of jail and was pending a child molestation charge and was
    loaded with drugs.  It happens everywhere and all the time.  I'm alot
    more cautious then my husband thinks I should be but I feel better safe
    then sorry.  You never know who is out there, even if they live next
    door.
    
    cj

I have to agree with .2. You never know hwo is out there.
My cousin's daughter attended daycare with a little girl
who was kidnapped right outside her home in Virginia while 
her mom ran in to get a sweater for her. 

I think a group of children playing outside the backdoor is
ok but I have a hard time with a child going anywhere unsupervised.
My house is within 10 minutes of a major highway so my 
thinking is you never know who is just passing through.

Thanks for the replies thus far.  I take it that your kids, in general:
 - have many friends in the neighborhood;
 - play outside a lot when home;
 - have mostly unscheduled play with nearby kids, as opposed to scheduled
   play dates with kids from further away?

						Brian

    
    We live in a family neighborhood, with about 35 houses in a circle
    like development, 1/2 acres per lot, with the average of 3 kids per 
    family. Half of the households have one parent staying home. 
    
    I started letting our daughter leave our yard around the age of 6
    as long as she was with some other kid and either I or other parents
    could see her. When she was 8, she could go around the block with
    other kids, as long as she stays inside the development. When she was
    10, she could go around the block by herself.
    
    Our neighborhood is considered very safe, as there is always someone
    watching. There are also plenty of older kids (middle/high school,
    not my daughter is one of the older kids ;-)) hanging out, so it is 
    hardly quiet during the day. Everyone knows what everyone else's is
    going! The police also comes around twice a day to check on things.
    
    
    
    Eva 

    
    Brian,
    
    My neighborhood is packed with kids and the kids all walk to the same
    school, so they all get to know each other, and the younger siblings
    quickly.  
    
    Colorado is an outdoor kind of place.  We encourage kids to be out in
    the sun and wind.  One trip in winter to here from Washington DC and he
    moved us out where we could get sun year around.  
    
    since the kids are around we leave them pretty unscheduled.  It works
    for all of us.  Carrie does occaisionally go to a friends house that
    is outside her bike boundaries, and that is scheduled ahead of time,
    but for the most part the neighborhood kids are plenty of
    entertainment.  
    
    As I said, my neighborhood is kid friendly and people friendly, if I
    lived in another place it would be different.  

    We live in an excellent neighborhood for kids. My children, girls age 8
    and 4, play outside just about every day in good weather. We keep track
    of where they are, especially the 4 year old. There is a creek that
    runs through our property, and they are as fascinated by it as I was
    when I was a child. It's close to the house, and it's not deep, but
    they aren't allowed to just traipse off to the creek whenever they
    want. 
    
    There are a number of children in the neighborhood, and children come
    to our yard to play all the time. Our kids also go across the street,
    or next door to play as well. With the little one, Niki, we obviously
    are more rigorous about supervising. She isn't allowed to go out of the
    yard without explicit permission, and if she crosses the street either
    my wife or I will make sure the coast is clear and watch her cross.
    When she goes up the street to her friend's house to play inside, we
    will either walk her or watch her until she gets to her destination and
    goes inside. The 8 year old, KC, is allowed considerably more latitude.
    She can go across the street by herself (after she lets us know that's
    what's she's doing.) We often watch her cross, but it is not mandatory
    as it is with her sister.
    
    Niki has a little battery powered Barbie car that she got from her
    grandparents. She drives it in the street (because our driveway is too
    steep) and will often "drive over to her friend's house." We supervise
    this activity, because even though the traffic is fairly low, there are
    teenagers living on the street whose friends do not appear to fully
    appreciate the dangers of driving fast when children may be about. We
    have a yellow warning sign that we put in the middle of the street when
    the kids are going to be playing out front for awhile. When we do that,
    even the teenagers slow down and pay extra attention. It's definitely
    worth having.
    
    My wife was pretty paranoid about letting the kids go outside to play
    at first. She'd insist that one or the other of us stay out there with
    them and supervise. Now she's relaxed to the point where we can keep an
    eye on them from inside the house. I often do yard/outside work when
    the kids are out there because it offers me the opportunity to keep
    track of them (they can be alarmingly nomadic) and be outside (a bonus
    for someone in my profession that also has a great love for the
    outdoors.)
    
    I think that the key is unobtrusive supervision. It's a balance between
    keeping an eye on the kids without being losing your ability to do
    anything else when the kids are outside. 
    
     The Doctah

    We have only lived in our neighborhood for two years but the main
    reason why we moved there was because it was such a safe neighborhood. 
    The houses are like most other replies in here, ie., 1/2 acre lots and
    houses close together.  Streets are safe for street hocket and speed
    limits are no more than 20 mph.  The lake can be an added bonus or not
    depending on how you look at it.  There is a wonderful town beach and
    playground a block from our house.
    
    At this time, Paul only knows the children next door directly to our
    house.  In fact, he has problems remembering all their names but you
    know when they come to one house on our right side because he sees them
    and yells "my buddies are here!" until you let him outside.  He runs
    immediately to the fence and after a few months of them talking over
    the fence, they are now beginning to enter our yard and play with
    eachother.
    
    The rest of the children in our area seem to either be Paul's age or
    about 8-10 years old.  The school is right across from the end of our
    street so I'm sure the kids know everyone because they have to meet
    here each morning.
    
    We try and get Paul out as much as possible during the weekends but its
    difficult to get them out when you have two full time working parents
    and the days are short and cold (here in Mass anyways).  Then on the
    weekends its just whenever the kids are out that it becomes play time. 
    As time goes by, I'm sure we will find ourselves making more scheduled
    play dates.
    
    fwiw,
    
    cj

    
    	We live in a kid-filled neighborhood, but I wouldn't call
    	the actual street kid-friendly.
    
    	My kids (3 and 4.75) are allowed to play outside alone, as
    	long as they stay in the backyard.  I can see them from the
    	kitchen.  They play very well together, so they don't tend
    	to wander from one another, but if one does, the other usually
    	comes in to tattle.
    
    	We allow any kids to play in our yard, but we do not allow our
    	kids to go to other houses unless a) they've been invited, b)
    	the parents don't mind.  They frequently play with our next-door
    	neighbors' kids outside, and the parents never mind (much as we
    	don't).  My kids are not allowed to cross the street EVER without
    	an adult.   
    
    	The kids are also not allowed to "house hop".  I'll never forget
    	the day that the kids across the street (ages 6-9) headed off
    	for one kid's house, but ended up elsewhere.  Their mother was
    	frantic trying to search ten houses to find them.
    
    	Karen
    

    Oh, regarding scheduled play time. When we first moved into the
    neighborhood, the neighbors were really high on scheduled play time. So
    much so, in fact, that about the only time the kids could play was when
    their parents had set a date and time ahead of time and written it in
    their calendars. While this may be a reasonable approach when there is
    a considerable distance between playmates, it seems kind of silly when
    everybody's home and right next door or across the street. 
    
    We do have scheduled playtime for Niki. Every other wednesday, she goes
    to her friend Deanna's house to play, and on alternating wednesdays
    Deanna comes to our house to play. But she lives much too far away for
    Niki to walk, so driving is involved and that somehow makes it seem to
    make more sense to me.
    
    I don't think I ever had a scheduled play time as a kid (not even
    once) so I'm sure that colors my thinking on this virtually foreign
    concept.

    I grew up in a small town in rural Pennsylvania, and was one of six
    kids who are only 10 years apart.  I too never had a scheduled
    playtime--who needed it with so many playmates sleeping in the same
    room!  We were allowed to go where we wanted by the age of 8 or 9.  We
    picked wild strawberries, rode our bikes everywhere, went to the
    library, investigated abandoned houses (!!), went to the park, and had
    fun.
    
    In contrast, I live in Nashua, NH on an extremely busy street (Main
    Street, in fact).  My backyard is fairly safe because it is so far from
    the street and is fenced in on three sides.  My children are nearly 3
    and 7.  My 3 year old son is never outside by himself, because of the
    danger of the street.  My 7 year old daughter has been outside for a
    few moments by herself.  Sometimes she'll go next door to play with the
    neighbor's kids.  But generally, one of the four parents watch while
    the kids play.  There are very few children in the area, and I'd hardly
    call what we have a neighborhood.
    
    In the last year, I've allowed my daughter to play alone outside at my
    parents home where I grew up, but my husband is only starting to get
    comfortable with this. 
    
    It's an interesting contrast to me and something I struggle with
    whenever the kids want to play outside.
    
    judy

This has been quite interesting, thanks all.

I'm somewhat surprised that nobody else has responded whose kids perhaps don't
spend much of their play time at home, or prefer to play indoors, or don't
enjoy playing with the kids in the neighborhood.

In my neighborhood, there are groups of kids who play together a lot.  There's
little intrinsic to the neighborhood that precludes kids playing together,
although I suppose some aspects could make it easier.  But I think about where
I grew up in New York City, with thousands of kids in the vicinity, and I had
no friends in my neighborhood, either, so I don't put all that much weight on
proximity.

						Brian

    Brian, my family is like yours.
    
    My children (2 and 6.5) play with each other, by themselves, or with
    us.   They are never outdoors alone.
    
    We live in at the end of an "executive" neighborhood with large lots.
    I think I'm the only working mom that isn't a doctor or lawyer and
    everyone has their kids heavily scheduled into various activities.
    
    We just generally like to hang around the house!  Plus, we typically
    go somewhere (as a family) on the weekends or invite family and friends
    over to our house.
    
    My husband feels bad about our kids not having neighborhood buddies,
    but with our lifestyle (two parents working full-time) there isn't 
    time to cultivate that right now!
        
    Tara
    

    I'm one!  We live in the city. Our neighbors are nice enough, but their
    version of child-supervision does not come close to mine, hence their
    kids are a bit unruly.  David (7) does not like to play with those
    kids.  He goes to a city-wide magnet school, so he has a set of
    friends from school that live all over the city. He goes to their
    houses to play on weekend - they come to ours also.  He is also in an
    after-school program until 5:30 every day, so he has yet another set of
    friends with whom he plays every afternoon and on weekends.  One of his
    school friends commented once that he was sad because David didn't have
    anyone to play with at his house. David's reply was priceless. He said
    he didn't want friends near his house to play with, because when he
    gets home from the after-school program, he wants some PEACE AND QUIET!
    He particularly enjoys playing quietly by himself in the evenings. I
    think his day is so jam-packed with activities that he needs to unwind.
    He nevers lacks invitations on the weekends, so a non-neighborhood set
    of friends actually works out well for us.
    When he does want to go outside to play, our yard is totally fenced and
    we have 3 early-warning devices (small dogs) out there with him. He can
    invite friends into the yard if he likes, but he prefers to invite his
    other friends over for schedule play time, rather than have the
    neighborhood kids over. Our street is a hill, so he can't really ride 
    his bike  safely. When he wants to ride, we both (or all, if he has a 
    friend/friends over) go to the park very near the house.  I don't know
    when I will allow him to cruise the area by himself.  He has no reason
    to at the moment. If he develops a friendship with another child in our
    area, I'll have to play it by ear depending on his maturity level. He
    is allowed to walk up to Nana's house (2 houses up on our side of the
    street) by himself, but I call Nana and tell her he's on his way. We
    both look out the window and watch him. Overkill, probably, but he
    doesn't know we are doing this so he can't get indignant and accuse us
    of treating him like a baby ; )
    Sarah  

We live in a nice neighborhood..houses with 1 acre lots and lots of kids!  If it
is a nice day out, you'll see kids everywhere - riding bikes, roller blading ,
using their battery powered vehicles etc. 

The neighborhood has a large percentage of stay-home mom's and the moms all get
together twice a week or so for 'play-time'.  The moms sit together, chat, knit
etc while the kids play together.  There's a wide variety in the ages of the
kids in the neighborhood.. we had lots of high school graduations this past
year...including lots of new babies being born.

The neighborhood was what drew us to the house in the first place.  We have now
been in this house for a year..but Shruthi(almost 4) knows no other kids in the
neighborhood!  We attribute this to the fact that with two full-time working
parents and an active social life, we are hardly at home!  We have friends with
same interests and kids the same age as Shruthi!  So, during the weekends, we
are almost always not at home!  She really hasn't had the opportunity to
meet/play with kids in the neighborhood.  I am assuming/hoping this will change
as she starts to go to the same school as some of these kids...

The houses right next to ours don't have small kids..there's a creek in our
backyard and a pond right across the road...so right now, she is not allowed to
go out alone!  Sometimes, I have let her play in the backyard where I can keep
an eye on her...once, I let her play in the driveway alone...but that was kind
of scary since I couldn't see her all the time..so no more of that since!

--Chaya.

    We live on a busy street too, and there aren't any kids too nearby to
    play with [well, there's one next door my daughter's age, but that's
    another story].  They both need to either import friends or export
    themselves (!), and since our school has grown so large they can't just get
    on a bus after school, which makes it a bit tough sometimes.  My son,
    who is now 13, is now allowed to ride his bike to a friends' house 1
    mile away; my concern was because of all the 'disappearances' a few
    years ago, not that he wouldln't do it safely.  The question I wrestled
    with was how to let him know that I trusted HIM, it was someone driving
    by that I didn't trust.  The kids [my daughter is 9+] are not supposed
    to play outside until I get home, if it's a really nice day, or like
    earlier this week, we have snow so they wanted to ski, they can go
    outside but only in the back of the house.  I'd wanted to live in a
    neighborhood -- I grew up in one where all I had to do was step outside
    and there were lots of kids -- but it just didn't work out.
    
    It's saddening to realize that things have changed so much since we
    were kids -- I don't even let my kids wait for the bus alone [yes, even
    the 13 yr old, but I walk at 7AM so it doesn't look to the others on
    the bus that Mommy's going out _with_ him -- appearances are SO
    important!] mostly because of the busy corner, and I do require them to
    call once they get in the house after school just to let me know
    they're in ok.  A still-childless co-worker was teasing me about this
    one day -- I just told her to wait till she had kids!
    
    sandy

    Isn't it funny how times have changed.
    
    I grew up in Stow MA which at the time didn't have any lights (since
    got one in the early 90's but anyways)... we used to ride our bikes to
    the Jr. High and then on Friday half days ride to the Shopping Plaza on
    117 and then home.  Our parents let us do this without a problem and
    occasionally on weekends my friends that lived on the West Side of Stow
    and I would ride to the Friendlies on 2A in Acton.  These roads are so
    dangerous now that I don't believe I would even try to ride a bike down
    them, never mind a pre-teen.  And then of course you have to wonder
    what our parents were thinking to allow us to just ride around town all
    day without so much as call as to where we were going.  Just be home
    for dinner was all I remember them telling me.
    
    And even before that age, when I was 7-10 we would play kick the can on
    busy Hudson Road.  The speed limit is still the same 45 mph but the
    cars go by my parents home around 50-55 mph.  Granted, we didn't play
    "in the road" but we were always running across the street to hide.  
    
    I wish many times that things would go back to the simplier days.
    
    cj (who probably sounds much older than she actually is)
    
    

    
    Brian,
    
    	Actually, during the school year, my daughter, now 11 1/2, 
    doesn't play outside that much. There is hardly enough time each 
    day for school, for homework and lessons/activities. On the weekends,
    sometimes she gets together with school friends to work on projects,
    the rest of the time is family time. During summer vacation, she 
    goes to camp, but we usually get home around 6. She gets to stay
    out in the neighborhood until dusk. 
                                 
    Eva

    We live in a "young" subdivision.  We do lots of family activities and
    the kids are busy with school work and sports, but they always find
    time to play with their neighborhood buddies.  My girls are 9 and 7-
    we live in a double cul-de-sac so not too much traffic.  All of the
    kids (about 9) are always together playing roller hockey, softball,
    dolls, bikes you name it.  We are looking forward to this summer one of
    the neighbors had a pool put in- that will require adult supervision.
    The kids all go from one house to the next- we could go for 2-3 hours
    some Saturdays and not see them, but we do know where they are!
    
    Cindy