Conference moira::parenting

>    But she wants to know how God made us and specifically how the
>    baby gets in the belly.
>    
>    Does anyone know the answer ?
    
    I get a chuckle that you're asking this in the parenting notes file...
    I assume you DO know the answer.....

    Sounds like you are looking for help finding the words...I've
    always believed its the sort of thing that you should start
    talking to them about when they are still about 1 years old....
    you get used to talking about it with them by the time they are
    old enough to figure out what you are trying to say.  Our kids
    have just heard it all forever...not exactly the mechanics, but
    they understand about female and male equipment and how
    it operates.

    We've now got an 11 year old boy and 3 younger sisters...so the
    girls get to see their brothers penis during bath time (less now than
    a few years ago) so there's no mystery there.  He certainly sees plenty
    of them....from changing diapers on up.  We also have sheep
    and they get to witness the ram first hand....Oh Look Dad, he's
    planting seeds!

    Also, our 3 oldest are adopted and the youngest a biological miracle,
    and understanding adoption is VERY intertwined with 'the facts of life'.
    So it comes up all the time.
    good luck....there are a wealth of books out there...
    bob

    .0 when you find out, please let me know. My step son is quite curious
    moreso now because we are expecting a child. I have a book, "a child is
    born".It kind of goes through some highlights, since he can't really
    read a whole lot, he saw visuals. For now, his questions are forming
    and he hasn't asked many more. He's pretty ok with the tad pole gets
    into the egg thing, but he's going to start to ask about how they meet
    up soon. His mother already has problems explaining basics in life,
    let alone the facts of life. So daddy and I are left to the
    explaination. 
    If you find out what to say to them, let me know, he's six.
             

    Here at our site (NQO) we have some "Lunch Time Seminars" scheduled
    during Feb/Mar/Apr.  One is titled "Talking About Sex with Your Kids". 
    Check with your site personnel and see if there's something coming to
    your site.
    
    Chris 

    We raise rabbits, so our kids have had a basic understanding for a long
    time.  Carrie's first question hit about 4, and she asked how she got
    started, and why there weren't more babies.  I explained that papa and
    mama worked together to make a baby, but not quite the same way the
    rabbits do.  More questions about babies, and I explained that the papa
    helps the mama make a baby.  The next comment she had to Frank would
    have belonged in "funniest kids." " Papa!  Why don't you help mama make
    me another sister?"  
    
    meg

    
    	Thankfully, Emily hasn't gotten to wanting to know specifics
    	yet.  She does, however, seem obsessed to have "a baby in
    	my tummy".  She also thinks we need two more kids - a sister
    	for her and a brother for Andrew.  She doesn't yet know she's
    	going to get a new sibling this summer.
    
    

    I happen to be hosting an Usborne Book Party.  They are educational
    childrens books and there is a series called Starting Point Science
    geared at ages 6 and up, one of the titles is "Where Do Babies Come
    From".  I do have it and my 7 year old was satisfied with it.  If you
    are interested, you can contact me, the paperback price is $3.95
    
    The Usborne Catalog has many informational type books, interactive
    books, puzzle books, math, science, music, arts, etc...  They can be
    purchased by independent consultants, folks who host parties, book
    fairs and some childrens learning stores.
    
    

    I loved the WHERE DO BABIES COME FROM? book.
    Very honest feel to it and thorough.
    Mom and Dad are cartoon characters with
    all the right parts.  Did you know I was
    once a very cute sperm?  That's the 
    attitude of the book.

    If my daughter isn't asking, should I bother to bring it up or wait
    until she does ask?  She is 4.
    
    Lisa 

    re .8
    
    I vote no, don't volunteer any information she doesn't ask for, but in
    the meantime you should "get your act together" so that when that first
    series of questions comes, you'll be ready.  The first question might
    very well come in a public situation, so make sure you have a ready
    method of dealing with that.  (You might be in a checkout line, within
    earshot of strangers' kids, so you might want a line like "that's a
    question about how families grow, and we talk about family business at
    home; after we put the groceries away I can explain it," or whatever.
    Of course if you *do* deflect the subject, be sure to pick it back up
    again as promised!)
    
    Leslie

    I vote no also. Usually my step son asks questions when he is confused
    or doesn't truely understand something. If it comes up we address
    the issue then. Both his dad and I sit down and have a pow-wow. However
    if we get caught one on one with him, we have a short discussion, then we
    have a pow-wow together with the other spouse and address it with him 
    directly. We also let him know that he can come to us with any question
    and we will all discuss it. But if there is something he wants to talk 
    to his dad about in private, that's ok too. 
    
    

    Sort of a related question:
    
    I've got a 9-yr old daughter, who knows the bare basics (I've never
    really hidden anything from her, I just answer whatever she asks as
    basically as possible, then let her ask more if she wants.  The HMO
    (Harvard) also has a really good book available for 9-12 year olds,
    also one for teens, and she's read thru that already, and probably will
    again before she's a teen!)
      
    She's started to develop, the pedi says there's usually about 18 months
    before menstruation starts.  I know there's a place to call/write to
    get a starter kit, don't remember if it's Kotex or Tampax -- does
    anyone have this info?  When my son had "sex ed" in health class 2
    years ago, there was some info in their manual that I pulled out and
    put 'someplace safe' for when it was needed -- well, guess what, I
    can't find it.
    
    thanks.
    
    sandy

    Sandy,
    
    I don't have the info for you (Sorry!), but I know that when my mother
    "told" me, she handed me a couple of books printed by Tampax, and
    shooed me off to my room to "Here - read this!".  I was ~12 at the
    time.
    
    I know that my boyfriend's daughter, who is 10, was told about
    menstruation in the fall because her step-cousin started (and she's
    10), so they told Amanda.  Since then, it's **ALL** the girl can think
    about.  She's COMPLETELY stressed that it will happen, and she won't
    know until some boy notices.  She refuses to wear anything but black
    pants "just in case, so no one will notice", and she's so preoccupied
    about he 'blooming sexuality' and what might be expected of her, that
    her grades have plummetted.  What was once an A-student is now a
    C-student, and she's just about failing Science.  
    
    With that in mind, I'd vote to hold off for as long as seems
    reasonable.  Keep in mind that the age you start is somewhat
    hereditary.  Keep in mind the age that you started, and if your husband
    has sisters, it's helpful to know when they started.  I didn't start
    till I was 15, and my other 3 sisters were 'late bloomers' as well.  I
    started "developing" when I was 11/12 .... I sure wouldn't start telling 
    a 9yr old if you think she might be more anxious/stressed about it. 
    The time "waiting" could make for a LONG year.  
    
    Your pedi should certainly be able to provide some printed info - or
    even your own OB/GYN ....
    
    Good Luck! (it's times like this that I'm glad I have sons .... though
    that "wet dream" conversation was pretty miserable ....times like these
    a man would come in REAL handy!! (-:)
    
    

    I think Tambrands, parent company of Tampax, is still located in
    Palmer, Mass.  According to www.switchboard.com, their number is
    413-283-3431.  I would bet they're still publishing those booklets!
    
    I agree with Sandy -- there *is* such a thing as telling them too much,
    too soon.  My sister said that when her kids' eyes glazed over, she
    knew they were on information overload.

    
    You may also want to ask the school nurse if she has info at hand.
    Pediatrician office will be a good starting place, too. If not, 
    you can properly call the Tampax or Kotex for a package, I think
    they hvae a 1-800 number in their products.
    
    
    Eva  
    
    

    Let her lead.  If she asks questions answer them as completely as the
    question demads and offer more if she is interested.  My middle child
    probably knows more about reproduction and sexuality as the teen mom
    next door has given us lots of converstations, expecially when she
    comes over for advice and Carrie is in the room.  Since Carrie had the
    privilege of being present when Heather had baby number two she
    understands a fair amount of where babies come from and how much work
    is involved in bringing a baby into the world.  She has asked questions
    and has been given accurate information about how a baby gets started,
    with an explaination that waiting until she is old enough to deal with
    things on her own, as well as in partnership is critical.  This is one
    time I wish I knew more about Frank's side of the family, and when
    women reach menarchy.  
    
    One thing that may be overlooked, I know that scouting manuals also
    give lots of information in a factual way about the beginings of life,
    and also about mentruation.  The information is well presented in a few
    of the handbooks.  
    
    meg

Meg, thanks for mentioning Girl Scouts.  I just reminded me that Girl Scouts
now have a set of programs called Contemporary Issues.  One of them is
Girls are Great.  For the older scouts (meaning some at the Junior level, 
but not Brownies and Daisies) it actually goes into these sorts of things.
If your daughter is in scouts or you know a scout leader, ask about the program.
It covers not only this but also breast self-exam, self esteem and lots of
other things.

Irene

Well, it came up again last night and it was everything I suspected 
it would be. My not quite 6 year old asked if babies could grow in
the belly of big girls but not as big as Lisa and Jennifer (they
are in high school). I said "No, that wouldn't be so good." and she 
pressed on...

So I told her that babies grow when a birthmother and birthfather have 
a special hug and make a baby and God breathes life into it and makes it 
alive. 

"Can it happen to me, Mom, cause I don't want it to." 

So I assured my 5 year old that she didn't have to worry about a baby growing
inside her if she didn't want one. She would just not have that special hug
and it wouldn't happen....I told her to relax and grow up. She laughed.

She was ok for 10 seconds and then...."How was I born ?" 

So I reminded her that she was born like everyone else and her birthmother 
pushed her out (Her expression said "disgusting"..she saw that vaginal birth 
video at the Science Museum).

By bedtime we were back on the subject of birthparents and reading a book
about families formed through adoption...she chose the book.

So, I think the connections are all getting made and so far we're ok. 

    
       I just wanted to note one thing, when you said a 'special hug'.
    When my son Johnathan was about 3 he wanted to know how babies
    were born and my sister (she was a teen and thought this was funny)
    told him that people who 'rubbed elbows' got pregnant. It took a lot
    of convincing him that had nothing to do with it. 
    
        Maybe the 'special hug' is a good answer. Just watch if she decides
    she doesn't want to hug anymore. (just in case)
    
         rosie

    One thing that all our kids are aware of is that
    'teenagers' are going through a lot of changes...they act
    wierd, they grow a lot, they get breasts and facial hair,
    their voices change, etc. etc....

    And so when our kids ask about 'the facts of life' in any
    of these various ways, one thing that always really strikes
    home with them is that one of the changes that teenagers
    are going through is that their bodies are then developing
    the ability to make babies...and that before then their
    bodies are not ready.

    Its also quite clear to our kids that these young teenagers,
    with all these changes going on, are not at all ready themselves
    to actually take care of babies, so actually making them
    is not such a great idea.  And being adopted themselves,
    they can understand that their birthmothers were too young 
    to raise kids, being still kids themselves.

    Its great that you're talking about all this....let her bring
    it up, dont discourage it, and she'll feel more and more comfortable
    raising all these mysteries of life...and being adopted, some of
    these mysteries have serious personal mysteries associated with them.

Related to this topic..

Shruthi(almost 4) knows that before she was born, she was in mommy's tummy.  I
heard this from school - she told her best friend that we are going to have a
baby and it is in mommy's tummy!!  Big surprise to mommy :-)  I talked to her
about it and said that there was no baby in mommy's tummy...then she wanted to
know " Where is it then?"!!  She has decided that she wants a brother  :-)

Well, I tried to explain in terms that she could understand that if mom and dad
had to first decide if we wanted to have another baby.  The next day she informs
me in the car " Mom, I told Jill that we are having a baby but it is not in
mommy's tummy yet !!".

    
    	;-)
    
    	Emily was asking me if she and Andrew were at our wedding, and
    	I told her they hadn't been born then.  So she turned to
    	Andrew and said, "Yeah, we were still in Mommy's tummy."
    	
    	I let it go at that...
    
    

>    	Emily was asking me if she and Andrew were at our wedding, and
>    	I told her they hadn't been born then.  So she turned to
>    	Andrew and said, "Yeah, we were still in Mommy's tummy."

    She is right actually.

    Our kids talk about 'when we were just eggs'...
    bob

    Well, yesterday Sarah (4) asked how babies are made, so I told her about
    eggs and sperm and the "special hug", she seemed satisfied.  But, then
    she went on to ask about how dogs are made and how cats are made and
    fish are made...after about 5 different species she was done.
    
    The things that did have her in stitches are that babies are born naked
    (why don't mommies make clothes in their tummies, too?) and that there
    were no toys in there for her to play with (I guess mom's bladder, gall
    bladder, stomach and other internal organs don't count 8^>).
    
    
    /Susan

>>                            -< But do dogs smooch? >-

It's called a "pooch smooch."  At least that's what my kids call it.  :-)

>    The things that did have her in stitches are that babies are born naked
>    (why don't mommies make clothes in their tummies, too?) and that there

She didn't need clothes in your tummy:  you put her in stitches after she was
born, by telling her about the birds and the bees. :-)

Last night the questions came again...but in disguise..

"It's good that I didn't have a birthfather."
"You do have a birhtfather. Every one has a birthmother and a
 birthfather."

"Then where in the world can he be ?" followed by an explanation from Mom 
and a little discussion about being curious about birthfather and birthmother...
then...

"Did I come out of by birthmother's body ?"
"Yes, you did. That's how everyone is born, remember"...she did see the movie..

"But how could I go in her tummy and go to another country ?"

I realize that what my dauhgter cannot understand is that she was not in control
here, that she did not decide to crawl into a tummy, that she did not go to 
another country from this country.

I still have no interest in talking about sex but I can see it coming very soon..
and it is gonna be a good one.

Does anyone have a book that does not talk about Mommy and Daddy and me ? I need
man/woman language that doesn't assume a two parent adoptive home. I think it would
be ok if it were about someone else's birth and adoption so long as it didn't say
something like your birthmother wanted you to have a mommy and daddy. I may have
to write this book.

I'm going to try to be brief here, as I imagine I have written quite fully
on this in a previous note.

Our family consists of 2 women and 2 children.  We took turns giving birth
to the kids, and the kids were born of alternate insemination by 
anonymous donor.

Try finding a book that tells about *that*!  :-)

So I have just answered whatever questions came up as fully and as well as
possible.  What's more, it hasn't been hard.  My younger son is really not
interested yet in what happened to create him.  My older son asked questions
early on.  My older son (age 8) knows who his parents are (Shellie and me)
and how he was conceived and born.  As a matter of fact, he *loves* hearing
the story of how we went to the doctors to get inseminated, and especially
the part about the sperm looking for the egg and the egg freaking out as it
comes toodling down the fallopian tube and sees this HUGE CROWD of sperm
streaking toward it (okay, so I embellish a little.  ;-)  ). 

Anyway, this doesn't have to be a hard discussion.  With a factual discussion
and a little humor, this can be a story that your child loves to hear.
It doesn't just apply to AI babies, either.  Discussing the conception of
an adopted child can be just as simple and factual.  If you want examples
for your particular situation, I'd be happy to help by private email or on
the phone. Of course, I understand that free advice is worth what you pay for
it, and you can freely ignore anything I say.  :-) 

Good luck to anyone struggling with this!

    Carol

Actually, I hadn't thought about making it a funny story....

There's no daddy at our house and my daughter has let me know that she'd 
like one...so I guess I am sensitive to bringing up anything related to
what she may view as the loss of a daddy. I'm much less sensitive about 
the birthmother loss because I feel comfortable that she does like having
me.

I'm not good at making up stories and embellishing them. I'd love to hear 
yours. In fact, I think it would be great for you to share it here. I'm sure
the language you've chosen is sensitive to a wide range of situations. I just
wish that were true in general. 

PS Have you found any books that ARE useful...to talk about diversity in families
or to talk about sex ? 

    re .27, I'm sure we all know what you mean, :-) but *wow* what a
    fantasy:
    
             > We took turns giving birth to the kids
    
    "AaaarrrrrggghhhhhhAAAAAGGHH! ...he's what?  He's *crowning*?  OK spouse,
    YOUR TURN, I'll be back after the heads's out!"
    
    Leslie

<             > We took turns giving birth to the kids
<    
<    "AaaarrrrrggghhhhhhAAAAAGGHH! ...he's what?  He's *crowning*?  OK spouse,
<    YOUR TURN, I'll be back after the heads's out!"
 
Ha!  Well, by that time I was so tired I couldn't move, so it was a little
late, but it's a great fantasy!  :-)

If I can get the time next week, I'll share more of the story I tell.
I have just accepted a new job, however, and time is very limited.  :-}
Humor does help, though, and can be mixed with facts quite easily if you're
in the right mood.  :-)  In some ways, it's like that first movie with
Kirstie Alley (sp?) and John Travolta -  "Look Who's Talking" or whatever
the first one was called.  When I saw the illustration of the conception,
it was very much like the story I tell in the way that it shows it from
the viewpoints of the egg and sperm (though in the movie, they may just show
the viewpoint of the sperm).

Of course, that's not really the same as talking about *sex*, which I haven't
told a long story on.  Usually those discussions are briefer, as my son's
attention span is also shorter on that one.  Perhaps some day I'll come up with
a humorous story about that one, but it will take more work to gear it
appropriately for the age.  :-} 

   Carol

    I have a daughter (Michaella) that turned 3 early this month and another 
    daughter (Olivia) that is 8 months old.  SURPRISE we are expecting again 
    in July!! 
    
    Michaella was very involved with my last pregnancy.  She
    understood that there was a baby growing my my belly and we even 
    took her to a few of the OB visits with us.  She heard the heartbeat
    and asked the doc what the baby was doing inside me.  He said it was 
    playing, kicking, growing and would not be out until it was ready.
    My sister is an ultrasound tech so we have an ultrasound on videotape.  
    This was great because it let her see her sister moving and we explained 
    in terms she understood what the baby was doing.  To this day she still 
    talks about Olivia swimming in my belly.
    
    Well Michaella is a year older and is much more curious with this
    pregnancy.  She believes that I have a BOY baby in my belly and wants
    to name him SARA.  She is so cute always touching my belly, listening 
    and telling me she hears the baby burping and talking.  She says she
    feels it moving.  She has even asked what it eats.  My husband said
    it eats what I eat so now she is confused because she knows Olivia ONLY
    gets formula and baby food.  She wants to know why the baby eats food
    but Olivia can't.  They are very observent!  The ultrasound
    tape is once again being viewed on a regular basis.  She is even asking
    me if this baby will eat from my booby like Olivia did.  Mind you I
    only breastfed Olivia for about 3 days.  SHE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING!!!
    
    I am due the end of July which is when Olivia will turn 1 so we have 
    explained to her that this new baby will arrive when:
    		summer gets here
    		the weather is hot 
    		she will be swimming
    		Olivia will have her birthday and will be walking.  
    
    She is adorable!!  She tells me that the baby is growing up and will be
    out when: (she goes thru the list).  Well she surprised me last Friday
    when she asked me HOW THE BABY IS GOING TO COME OUT?  I was in shock.
    She is only 3.  Why is she already asking me these difficult questions.
    I laughed and told her that was a good question and she should ask
    daddy that question.  Well we have pretty much just stated that baby
    will come out of my belly.  I did not know exactly what to tell her.  
    
    I am sure there will be more questions before the baby arrives.
    Comments and suggestions welcome.
    
    Norma
    
    

    	My four year old picked up on the food thing right
    	away, too.  (How can the baby eat that sandwich ?  Babies
    	only drink milk!)
    
    	I use the questions to teach Emily a little about our
    	bodies and how they use food, such as "when the food goes
    	in my belly, it gets broken up into little teeny tiny
    	vitamins, and the baby only gets the vitamins".
    
    	Her Daddy is always explaining what kind of nutrients are
    	in different foods, so this explanation is easily accepted.
    	
    	Thankfully, she hasn't asked for specifics about how the
    	baby gets out of my belly, though she did ask if she could
    	come watch.
    
    Karen
    

    When one of our kids asked that, another said "That's easy...
    the same way it got in!".  And that was that!

    Our kids have watched lambs get born...its pretty
    neat....so they know the mom just lays right down and pushes
    them out...and out they come.  I dont think my girls plan
    on doing much licking off, though.
    bob

    My sister-in-law is pregnant with their second child.  My neice asked
    "how does the baby get out" and my SIL's response was "The Doctor takes
    it out".  Seemed to satisfy Melissa (4).
    
    Holly
    

Why not just reply with the truth?

Q:  "How will the baby come out?"

A:  "There's a special hole (passage/opening/your_word_of_choice) that a 
     woman has between her legs, and the baby comes out through there."

    Carol

    
    I didn't get quite as descriptive as Carol's answer, but when my
    daughter asked I told here that a woman had a special place that the
    baby came out of. This was when she was ~3. She's now almost 6 and the
    baby is 3. Both of them have seen me insert a tampon and the older one
    knows that I "bleed" cause there's no baby inside that needs the food.
    
    I was raised all Hush!hush! when it came to the facts of life and I
    refuse to raise my children that way. To each his own, but I feel the
    simple truth is the best. As they get older and ask more questions, the
    simple truth can become more descriptive.
    
    Patty

I agree that we don't want to hide things or make things up.
I was told I was born in a rose...
On the other hand, my 5 year old is now asking for assurance
that a baby won't just start growing inside her. I've told
her that it takes a special hug between a birthfather and 
birthmother but weeks later she comes back with the question:
"Mama, do I have that special hug ?"

My daughter is appalled that an unwiped bottom can lead to
poop on your panties. Now just how graphic can I get without
scaring her or grossing her out ? Remember, she saw a videotape
of a vaginal birth, was grossed out at how messy the baby was, knows
where it comes out...

Just the right amount of info to answer the question being asked
until the next question comes up. Hopefully, she'll be old enough
to understand the answer when she asks the question. Meanwhile
I will figure out what she is really asking and why.

    She is far too young to have babies, as the special place babies grow
    in a woman isn't grown up enough yet.  (My answer to Carrie and a few
    of her younger friends when I was pregnant with Atlehi, and also a GS
    leader, some were still a bit freaked out about where babies come from)  
    
    Maybe it would set her mind at ease if you explained the following:
    
    Until a body is big enough, the special places can't start to grow a
    baby. 
    
    Babies don't just start growing by themselves, it takes the
    cooperation of at least two individuals, regardless of AI or vaginal
    intercourse.