Conference moira::parenting

    
    Boy, can I talk from experience, my daughter now 13 months has had
    ear infections left and right!!!  She is now on preventive until
    June.  I was told just not to let her lie down and drink her milk.
    But they haven't made me take her off of milk all together.
    
    I think if they wanted you not to give her milk they would have told
    you.
    
    My .02 
    Kim
    
    

    I believe the reason for not letting them lie down when they take their
    milk is that the liquid (because the ears are connected to the throat)
    can get into the ears in that position if the child has a problem with
    ear infections.  (the eustachian tube being a small size/ wrong angle)
    
    Julie

    I have taken my son to a few doctors trying to get the ear infections
    under control.  He just seemed to be getting them constantly.  I
    finally found a doctor that has actually taken an interest in solving
    the problem and not just the symptoms.  The first thing he did was put
    Stephen on medication to get rid of the current infection.  
    
    After the medication was finished I took Stephen back and had his ears 
    rechecked, they were clear. (finally!)  Then he put Stephen on medication 
    to clear up the swelling that occurs in the ear during or because of the 
    infection.  He was also at the same time on medication to clear up his 
    lungs and get all the mucus out of his sinus passages.  He took this 
    medication for 3 weeks.  Now when I see the first signs of a runny nose, 
    I give him Childrens Sudafed for a few days and the runny nose goes away.
    
    Stephen hasn't had an ear infection (knock on wood) in over 4 months,
    which is wonderful.  The doctor told me most doctors don't do anything
    about the inflamation in the ear canal, which according to him, is why
    they reoccur over and over again.
    
    Stephen's infections are caused my allergies.  I am not yet sure what
    it is he is allergic to.  I know he can't eat pineapple or spinach.  
    This doctor says that children usually have the most allergic reactions
    to leafy green veges and tomatoes.  
    
    Apparently, they can't test children for allergies until they are 5
    years old, so it is up to my husband and I to figure it out for now.   
    
    I think that finding the right doctor makes all the difference in the
    world.
    
    Kathy

    Our son had ear infections from almost day one.  Last count was
    something like 9 months out of his first year of life he had
    infections.
    
    Finally, our doctor recommended an ear specialist, since we had tried
    every antibiotic known to man (it seemed like!)  We had the specialist
    check our son & he recommended tubes & removal of his adenoids because 
    both were still inflamed/infected.  By that time our son was only 16 
    months old & although we were scared about surgery at such an age, we 
    are *so* glad we had it done -- Bobby hasn't had *one* ear infection in 
    the last year.  We see so much drainage coming out of his ears period-
    ically, we wonder how he tolerated such pressure before.  The worst
    part about the surgery is getting the pre-blood work (Bobby was not a
    happy camper -- but it took ten minutes & was over).
      
    This may not be the route for everyone, but if your baby persists in
    having the ear infections, over a long period of time, they could be
    like our son -- he just produces a great deal of wax & it doesn't
    always drain like it should.
    
    One thing that helped somewhat, before the surgery was elevating
    the top of the crib (we put a pillow under the mattress so the
    whole end was elevated).  If you just give them a pillow to lie on,
    they can shift off it.
    
    The one day of aggrevation & tears was worth it to us (we cried more
    than he did), after all the visits to the doctor, getting prescriptions, 
    and trying a multitude of alternatives, etc.  But again, it's a matter of 
    choice.
    
    Linda
                                                

    When my son began having ear infections before he was a year old my
    daycare provider said to watch for milk allergies.  Her daughters had
    ear problems caused by this and there were two children at the center
    who were about 14 months old, had started milk a few months earlier and
    were beginning to have problems.  As it turned out, our sone did not
    have this allergy but some of the kids do.
    She was a former pediatric nurse and has found that milk too soon can
    bring on allergies that can also cause ear infections due to swelling.
    
    Michelle

    
    Any idea whether the milk allergy is whole milk itself versus lactose
    based products ? My daughter got lactose based formula. The first ear
    infection and horrid colds came after I began to give her yogurt and
    the current illness came after whole milk. I'm trying to sort it out
    without jumping to conclusions but something is amiss.

    Hi Lucille - is Marianna teething?  Although medically not proven,
    there seems to be a very strong correlation between teething and ear
    infections. Children who have a propensity to infections will often get
    recurring ones during bouts of teething. This definitely happened with
    mine, and I've seen it in others. Brazelton and the other "experts"
    supply the same anecdotal evidence tho they cannot explain it. Other
    than to say that as children grow, and their facial bones lengthen (and
    the sinus cavities tip instead of sitting sideways) their tendency to
    ear infections lessens.
    
    Also, in some cases children that have a milk allergy can still eat
    yogurt because of the active cultures....
    
    Lynn
    

    Both of my kids were on soybean-based formula (Isomil).  James had
    six ear infections in the first year of his life; he even got one
    when he was on the preventive dose of antibiotic.  Hollis, thankfully,
    has only had one, but she had a doozy -- a double ear infection that
    (naturally) cropped up the Friday before Christmas.  She was as 
    sick as a dog, too.
    
    I do not know what milk would have to do with ear infections and
    colds; I always have been under the impression that milk allergies
    would show up in digestive upsets (the "goes" and the "throws").
    However, if this current awful cold came on after you started giving
    your daughter yogurt and whole milk, I'd take her off it for the
    time being and see if things clear up.  
    
    My doctor told me that milk doesn't actually cause mucus, it coats
    the mucus membranes and makes you feel like youve got more mucus
    and phlegm than you did before you drank it.  (Not being a scientist,
    I guess I'll have to accept this explanation!  But I've had sinus
    problems all my life and know from experience that milk sort of
    grosses me out when I have a head cold -- probably because of the
    membrane-coating thing.)
    
    Remember that the pollen count has been astronomical -- last Friday
    it was up over 3,000 -- and that could be a reason, too, especially
    if your daughter is like my kids and spends a lot of time outside
    at day care.
    
    As to coping....well....I've always thought that childhood illnesses
    are harder on parents than they are on kids!  If your daughter is
    up at night with the pain from the infection (standard practice in
    the Nelson household), maybe you and your spouse/SO could take turns
    getting up with her.  You take one night, he takes the other, etc.
    Or one of you could be on "night duty" and let the other parent
    be responsible for cooking, housework, and the other evening duties
    so the person on night shift can go to bed early and get 3-4 hours
    of sleep before that ghastly 1:30 a.m. summons (my kids always woke
    between 1 and 2 a.m. and woke up crying every 40 minutes all night
    long.  Since they're good sleepers, that's how I knew they were sick!)
    
    Good luck, I have had a lot of experience with this.  Wwrite me
    offline if you want a shoulder to cry on! :-)

    
    I had thought my son had an ear infection (turned out to be a false
    alarm - sometimes it's hard to tell what's really bothering them
    when they're only a couple of months old) and one of my husband's
    co-workers said that when his daughter use to get ear infections
    he would put a drop of alcohol in her ear and that would absorb
    any water or fluid in the ear.  I never heard of that before.
    I have heard of putting olive oil in the ear.  I don't think i'd
    try it on my baby but was just wondering if anyone else has heard
    of this and if you've tried it and if it works/doesn't work?
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

    Since the fluid pressure that causes an ear infection is usually behind
    the ear drum, I doubt that putting alcohol or oil into the ear would
    affect the pressure.  What it might do is loosen any wax that's built
    up on the external side of the drum.
    
    

Alcohal helps prevents ear infections that are caused by bacteria in water
that doesn't drain from the ear after swimming, but I don't think it will
help cure an existing ear infection or prevent ones which are caused by other 
things.

As a young child I was always getting ear infections every summer like 
clock work.  Finally, one doctor told my parents that after I went swimming, 
they should put some alcohal down each ear canal.   My family has been following
this routine now for years, and voila no more "swimmer's ear" for anyone -
my sister does this with her two children now also.  Whether or not they
would have had a problem without the alcohal, we don't know, but why test it
to find out ?  My understanding is that I had a small ear canal and water
would stay in the ear leading to infection, but that the alcohal helped 
evaporate the water out of the ear in addition to being a disinfectant.

Leslie

Does the fluid buildup behind the eardrum cause ear infections, or is it 
a result of an ear infection ?

Leslie

I think it's the fluid.  The fluid that builds up behind the ear drum can become
infected, because bacteria just love that moist, dark environment.

I know Elise's pediatrician has kept her on an antibiotic until the fluid had
drained, to prevent the infection.

I believe the fluid comes from the mouth and nose - goes up the eustachian tubes
to the middle ear.  It also drains thru the eustachian tubes.  The only thing
that confuses me is tonsils and adenoids.  If they can be blocking the ear's
ability to drain, wouldn't they also be blocking fluid entry into the middle
ear?

My son Andrew is seven month old now.  He has only sleeped through the 
night twice ever since he was born.  He usually wakes up 3 to 4 times 
(about every two to three hours) in the night.  We started training him 
by applying Dr. Ferber's techniques when he was 4 months old.  Every time 
when things get better (wake up times reduced to 1 or 2 times) he gets 
sick again (running nose, slight fever...etc) and we have to restart the 
training after the illness is gone.  it was miserable for all three of us.  
Andrew will cry and scream for fifty minutes and fall to sleep after 
exhaustion, and his voice will be hoarse next morning.

Two and half weeks ago, Andrew had a fever and had his first ear infection.
He's been on Pediazole, Amoxicillin, and currently on Augmentin.  In the
past couple of days, he wakes up every hour.  He doesn't seem to be in
pain, just want to be held and rocked.  After sleepless nights, my husband
insists that we should start training him NOW.  But I worry that it will make
his ear infection worse.  Do you think continuous crying will aggravate the 
ear infection?  He is teething now.  I've seen the little white spot on his
gum for 5 weeks, but it hasn't cut through yet.  It doesn't seem to bother 
him either.  As long as you're holding him, he is a happy, smiling baby.  
Any suggestions?  Should I let him cry?  Or I should hold on another ten
days?


a very worried and exhausted mother
Cindy

It is an old wive's tale (which my mother also believed, by the way :-) to
put olive oil or cotton soaked in olive oil into an infected ear.  In fact
you can be doing a lot of harm since this provides an excellent culture in
which an infection can grow, especially if you slightly warm the oil as my
mother was told to do (by her mother, I suppose?).

I found one of our au paires treating my son like this on her mother's advice
and almost killed her.

If you suspect that your child has an ear infection, see a doctor.

mes deux sous

ccb

A hard call.  We waited to "Ferberize" Elise until the ear infections/colds/etc
were all gone, believing it would be difficult for her to focus on the problem
when she was hurting.

I don't believe continuous crying will effect the ear infection.

If he's been on antibiotics for 3-4 days, and it's working, then I'd say you
could use Ferber on him.  Since he doesn't appear to be in any distress, he
probably just got used to the company in the middle of the night.  Try a
modified Ferber technique - respond immediately when he cries, but don't pick 
him up. Just tell him everything's ok and he should sleep now.  Adjust his 
covers, say good night and leave.  That may be all he needs, and will go back 
to sleep after that.  It's a little less drastic than leaving him to cry for
a while before responding.

For what it's worth, we usually had to hang tough with Elise after every illness
that woke her during the night.  But it gets easier every time it happens.  And 
now, if she wakes up crying *and is standing in her crib*, I will pick her up and
cuddle her for 30-60 seconds before putting her back to bed.  But this is after
I've let her try and work it out herself for a few minutes.

    
    Re: ear infections
    
    There are two types...external and internal. Otitis media is the middle
    ear infection, otitis somethingorother is the external infection, also
    called 'swimmer's ear'. This is an infection of the eardrum and/or ear
    canal. Hydrogen peroxide, alcohol and glycerin (Debrox) can kill the
    external type. The middle ear is composed of bone and soft tissue,
    which normally has fluid keeping it moist. The eustacian tube serves as
    the drain for this fluid. If it is clogged, or swollen, the fluid
    cannot drain, and it will build up. If infection, present in the mouth
    or sinus, gets to this built up fluid it causes the middle ear
    infection. In my experience, fluid buildup in the middle ear is a
    warning sign for a possible ear infection. Fluid buildup can be tested
    with a tympanometer, your pedi should have one. Once the infection has
    set in, it can be observed on the eardrum through an otoscope.
    
    Re: Crying
    
    Patrick would have sleepless nights when an acute ear infection had set
    in. They say it is excruciatingly painful. If the baby is sleeping well
    when healthy, then I wouldn't worry about sleeplessness with an ear
    infection. It goes with the territory.
    
    CdH
    

    Re: Middle Ear Infections
    
    Also, an infant's eustachain tubes are short and mostly horizontal.
    This means that they are difficult to drain anyway.  Coupled with a
    cold which tends to swell the area around the tubes and the fact 
    that infants spend most of their time lying down, makes these tubes
    extremely difficult to drain out excess fluid that is present with
    a cold.  So, the fluid stays there and makes a great breeding ground
    for an infection.  This is why infants are so susceptible to ear
    infections.
    
    The good news is that as the children grow, so do they eustachain 
    tubes - they become longer and more tilted down (and easier to drain).
    And, as your child learns to walk and sit, they spend more time
    vertical and give the tubes more of a chance to drain.
    
    					Mair (who has had some very patient
    					and understanding physicians who
    					were willing to explain in lots of
    					detail)
    
    Now, is this a folk-tale or the truth - I've been told that a child
    shouldn't drink a bottle while lying down because it could increase
    the chances of ear infection.  This one I never questioned, but I
    really don't understand why this would be true.
    

re: .17 and .18

Good explanations, but it leaves me wondering why ear infections in children is
more common now, than it was 20 - 40 years ago.  They just didn't occur at
the rate they do now.

Evolution doesn't work that fast, so I wonder why.  My pediatrician doesn't
know.

    Most ear infections occurr at the tail end of a cold and even though
    supposedly ear infections are not contagious, colds are. Since there are
    more families with both parents working, more children are in daycare.
    Since the laws in this country do not allow parents enough sick leave 
    or vacation to stay home with a sick child in most cases kids that
    should be at home are send to daycare and infect other kids.
    
    Another reason in my opinion is the way ear infections are treated
    i.e with antibiotics. What did people do about ear infections before
    antibiotics? Antibiotics are a wonder drug but are overused and they
    may treat the infection but they also weaken the body's immune system.
    Therefore after taking them a child is more prone to get another cold
    and another ear infection. There may be cases when an ear infection is
    very severe and the use of antibiotics are justified. In most cases
    they are not but the dictors in this country are not trained to use
    anything else. Also when you give a child an antibiotic he/she seems
    all right very soon and can be send to daycare and the parent can go
    to work. A more natural way of healing may take longer and noone here
    has the time or patience to use it.

    My daughter (17 mo.) is on a 2nd round of antibiotics for her
    1st ear infection. My sister (a registered nurse) was telling me
    last night that she finally had found a solution to the recurring ear
    infections for her three kids. Her current pedi (who has 8 kids of his
    own) suggested using an antihistimine (i.e. Triamic or equivalent)
    twice a day during the period the child was on the antibiotic and once
    a day for 4-5 days after the antibiotics were finished. This keeps any
    little bit of fluid from building up to continue the same ear
    infection or have it recur immediately. She is also a 'Triamic
    vigilante' (her words) when the kids get the first sign of a cold. She
    tries to nip it in the bud before a runny nose even appears. She and
    the doctor decided that it was better to be a little more liberal with
    an antihistimine than building up tolerances to antibiotics. I think
    they are also both very concerned about recurring ear infections (and
    potential scarring, etc.) since there are hearing problems in the
    family. Looks like reply .3 uses a variation on this method. Anyone
    else do this? Where this is Caroline's first ear infection, I'm not
    really planning to do anything but antibiotics; Just wanted to get some
    data in case this happens again soon.
    
    Lisa

Re: .20 and the increased use of antibiotics.  

Yes, we do treat with more antibiotics and I personnally do not find this bad.
If I did, I, for one, would probably be dead by now.  As a child I was
exceedingly prone to all kinds of infections and still am though less so.  If
these wonder drugs had not existed, I would have died very young.  The use
of antibiotics has also reduced the amount of complications resulting from
these infections.  Fewer people growing up severely hearing impaired or with
debilitating respiratory diseases.

Re: .21 

I agree here completely.  Even today, as soon as I get the first start of a
cold, I start on antihistamines and keep every thing as dry as I can.  My ears
and sinuses still tend to fill up and not drain properly if I don't.  I use 
Contact but I find that antihistamines are a very personal thing and you have
to find the one that suits you.  I also use saline solution (we get it in a 
spray form here called Vibrocil) to keep the membranes moist since the 
antihistamines are uncomfortable otherwise.  Remember also that alcohol is a
histamine (makes your mucuses secrete) so you shouldn't drink and take
antihistamines together.

We also give children (and sometimes even adults) a treatment to help them
build up their internal immune systems if they suffer from recurring infections.
The name of the drug is Bronco Vaxom and is taken for 10 days a month for
three months and then repeated six months later.  I think it helped my children 
but had less effect on me.

And we get as much of this in our children as the Americans do and our children
in general are not in day care.

Cheryl

    a couple things here...
    
    one of the early replies said that chidren CAN'T be tested for
    allergies until they are 5,  WRONG!!  AJ was tested at something like
    18 months, and had positive results, by a patch test to a couple of
    them.  Since then with each spring's blooms comes one doozey of an
    asthma attack, that will usually send him to the hospital ER, and keep
    us hopping for at least 5 days.  This year was no exception.  It
    doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it's the pollen that's
    sending him into attacks.  Thankfully they are getting to be fewer and
    less severe.  I am litterally out of here in a few minutes for rechecks 
    with both the ear doctor and asthma specialist. (talk about mommy/doctor 
    burnout!!)  As an aside, we consulted a gastro (stomach) doctor when he
    was about 2 for a question of REFLUX, fortunately he was proven
    negative for that, however this doctor (from Boston Children's
    hospital) has done some research that coordinates reflux, to asthma,
    AND ear infection.  Something to do with upward pressure from the
    stomach.
    
    My point of question, and I will let you know the doctor's answer
    tomorrow, is how can he keep getting so called ear infections when his
    second set of tubes have been in place less than 3 months, tonsils and
    adenoids came out 3 mos ago too?  The pedi will usually say
    that his ear(s) "look a little red", and write a script for an
    antibiotic.  I've started questioning mentally, is this really
    necessary.  Does "a little red" really mean it's really infected? or are 
    the pedi's just doing a "cover you A**" routine, and prescribing
    "preventative" or just in case there's an infection type drugs?  Anyone 
    have any thoughts on this?  I don't want to withold the medicine, I'm
    just questioning is it really necessary.
    
    Lyn
                                            

    >As an aside, we consulted a gastro (stomach) doctor when he
    >was about 2 for a question of REFLUX, fortunately he was proven
    >negative for that, however this doctor (from Boston Children's
    >hospital) has done some research that coordinates reflux, to asthma,
    >AND ear infection.  Something to do with upward pressure from the
    >stomach.
    
    This is very interesting...my daughter, Amber was hospitalized at
    10 weeks for Reflux.  We came home with an apnea monitor, medication
    and CPR training.  At ten months she had tubes put into her ears 
    because of 9 months of constant ear infections. At age 5, our pedi-
    atrician diagnosed her as an asthmatic.  Seems to fit the research
    findings.
    
    Jodi-
    

    RE: .23, I have had the same concern. Am I giving her antibiotics
    because her ear is red and, in the process, upsetting a balance in her
    system, thus making her more susceptible to virus ?
    
    My daughter has been in the ER twice with breathing difficulty. The
    first time, get this, the diagnosis was ear infection--->antibiotics.
    The second time, the diagnosis was a cold, maybe with a touch of
    pneumonia or asthma ---->antibiotics. Am I frustrated !
    
    Today, I'm told that the pneumonia was a mistake but keep her on the
    antibiotic because her ear is red !
    
    I'm still looking for the answer in diet. What did our grandmothers
    do ? My cousins whose children are in their 20's remember pedi's who 
    told them to go to skim milk (whole milk connected to mucus) and orange
    juice (increase acid) when there were respiratory problems. Yes, they 
    used antibiotics as well but not solely.
    
    Come on those of you who were raised in other cultures. What do people
    do in other parts of the world to prevent recurring illness in their
    children ?

    I wanted to related a very candid comment AJ's ear AND asthma
    specialists made last week during routine rechecks.  I had comment on
    whether the ER doctor was prescribing anitbiotics just to cover their
    tails, and both concurred they probably were.  The Ear doctor said that
    next time have the ER doctor give me a type of antibiotic that won't
    expire in 10 or 14 days (like Ceclor does), something like Bactrim,
    which in fact they did give him at the ER.  And just keep it around for
    the next time, so I don't end up wasting money on anitbiotics that
    won't be used, and can use again up to a year from now.  Now I like
    that man's thinking!
    
    By the way we discontinued the anitbiotic somewhere aroung 5 or 7 days,
    and he had no reoocurrance of the symptoms.  This tells me he probably
    didn't need them in the first place.  Something both doctors agreed
    with me on BTW.
    
    Lyn
    

    
    I also used to question whether Patrick really had an ear infection,
    since he had them so often. What I did was have the pedi let me take a
    look for myself, through the otoscope. If it's red, it's infected. When
    it's not, it's grey. Very simple. We considered purchasing one for
    ourselves. Since he goes to the audiologist once a week, we check them
    out while we're there.
    
    Chris
    

    I just read all the replies about tubes, adnoids, tonsils, etc, and I
    only saw mention of allergies once or twice.  However, I think this is
    playing more of a role in problems with children (and mine) than I ever
    thought possible.
    
    Our son, who is currently 2.5 years old, had tubes at 13 months after
    repeated ear infections, chronic fluid, etc.  They were wonderful. 
    After nine months, they had fallen out.  The ear infections were back,
    he had one sinus infection after another, his hearing/speech were being
    compromised, he snored and sometimes ceased breathing for a moment
    during the night (apnea), and wasn't eating well (soft foods only; had 
    to eat with his mouth open, thus choking often).  This time, at 22
    months, he had tubes, plus a T&A.  He did fine, but was not himself the
    rest of the day (fighting with anyone who tried to hold him, cried if
    anyone came close to him other than me or my husband).  After about 1-2
    hours, he settled into our arms but reverted to more like a baby (we
    held him in our arms while he slept, he refused to do anything for
    himself, etc. I think the IV was intimidating him, plus was a bit
    uncomfortable.)  By morning, he was fine, and was eager to explore.
    Recovery was quick, his appetite took off (grew a LOT the next two
    months, going from 50% to 75% in both weight and height), and he
    started talking up a storm.
    
    Well, his tubes fell out 5-6 months later. Since then, he's had several
    more sinus infections, plus a few ear infections.  Fluid was constant.
    However, he did not snore at night or experience sleep apnea, etc.
    The ENT suggested that we experiment with removing all dairy products
    from Lee's diet.  At first, we did 1 week on, 1 week off.  A cold in
    the midst of this threw things off, and we were skeptical.  Finally we
    noticed that indeed removing dairy from his diet had REMARKABLE impact.
    No more "green goo", etc.  However, his ears still had some fluid. We tried
    maintenance doses of antibiotics, and this warded off infection for the
    most part.
    
    Recently I noticed that Lee wasn't reacting to my voice, and his 
    language skills were not progressing.  Testing showed that he hears,
    but that everything is muffled (failed the tempanogram (?))  This is
    because of the fluid.  I became concerned because the audiologist
    remarked that he had "poor noise attention" meaning that it's hard to
    get his attention, and once you get it, you loose it quickly because
    it takes so much effort to listen/understand what's being said and
    strip it out from the rest of the noise around him.  This can develop
    into a bad habit such that even if his hearing got better, he'd have
    trouble concentrating and paying attention for long spans of time. 
    (I'm a prime example, as I had similar problems as a child.)
    Also, because he can't discern between certain sounds, his speech is
    not expanding to include them either.  I even have trouble
    understanding him at times; frustrating and disconcerting.
    
    The ENT decided that perhaps we should go ahead and do the tubes again
    (#3).  I was all for it initially, but wanted to know if there were
    any way to make them stay in and function longer.  Apparently there are
    3 types of tubes, each having a longer lifetime (9-12 months, 1-2
    years, and up to 5 years).  However, the last two types can leave
    permanent holes in the eardrum that must later be surgically repaired.
    This made me balk a bit, though he said the repair surgery is fairly
    routine as well, though delicate.
    
    I checked back with the pediatrician.  She was reluctant for us to move
    this quickly into tubes again, and has suggested that perhaps Lee has
    some other allergies that we have not yet discovered.  We have a cat,
    so this was her first target.  She ordered an EIG to measure the level
    of allergic reactions my son is currenty experiencing. (I'm waiting for
    the results, but am sure it will be high; both my husband and I are on
    allergy shots routinely for severe allergies).  
    
    However, the cat is an educated stab in the dark.  My husband feels that
    perhaps we should test other things such as eggs, wheat, etc., instead
    of just booting out a long-time pet.  We keep our bedroom doors shut so
    that the cat is not allowed to go in (though we sometimes will forget).
    He's also an outdoor cat, and comes and goes as he pleases through a
    cat door.  I'd thought about restricting him to our basement (very
    large, dry, and has a glass slider and window for sun/light with
    catdoor leading to outside), but we want to wait to try the other 
    items first.
    
    Although my story is just another in a series of similar responses,
    it revisits the subject of allergies.  For those of you who haven't
    tried eliminating dairy from the diet, try it.  You may be quite
    amazed.  Lee LOVES soy milk, and VITASOY makes a soy milk called 
    VITASOY PLUS that has all the calcium and vitamins A&D added so that it
    offers all the good things they need from milk.
    
    Meanwhile...I'd be curious to hear from those who have found holistic 
    solutions to their children's chronic ear problems.  I do believe that 
    medicine has benefited our society greatly, and am not reluctant to seek 
    (and follow) a doctor's advice if it seems the right approach, but if 
    there is a more pure/simpler way to solve this (such as eliminating dairy 
    from the diet), then I'm all for it.
    
    Thanks much for bearing through this lengthy reply!
    
    Susan

    
    Patrick (17 mos.) had recurring ear infections with fluid until we put
    him on a maintenence dose of the pink stuff. He's been on it for about
    3 months now, with no ear infections. We do a tympanogram every 4 weeks
    and it shows his fluid levels dropping slowly. The problem is his
    eustacian tubes are not open all the time, nor open wide enough, to let
    the fluid drain. He has a profound hearing loss unrelated to this
    condition, so we are especially cognisant of the fluid problem since
    that affects his residual hearing greatly; it will cause his hearing
    aids to feed back.
    
    The audiologists, the ENT, his pedi and us parents are all reluctant to
    go the tubes route unless absolutely necessary. As long as the
    antibiotics are working, we'll stick with that method. If they ceased
    to work I would approach the pedi abouit allergies before consenting to
    surgery.
    
    Chris
    

    Yes, we are going the allergy route.  Seems that his IEG shocked us all
    by coming in normal.  However, this only tests for airborne allergins.
    We are going to have a RAST done next week.  This can sometimes show a
    positive result for food allergies.  Since milk is already a clear
    fluid producer for Lee, it seems reasonable that there may be some
    others.  For example, Lee loves peanut butter.
    
    Since a RAST is conclusive only if the result is positive, a negative
    result means we'll still play the elimination game.  A positive result
    would mean we're hunting for "the culprit(s)" rather than playing
    the game of, "Does not eating this make him better?"  So peanut
    butter will be the first thing we eliminate after his blood is 
    drawn.
    
    We did antibiotics for months and months so much to the point that
    he may now be allergic/sensitive to some of them.  (It could've been
    a virus that caused the rash, but the ped. doesn't want to take 
    chances.)  I think if we had to choose between a maintenance dose
    of an antibiotic and tubes, we'd go with tubes.
    
    The pediatrician will give our allergy testing one month.  If we
    don't get any improvements after that time, we will re-evaluate.
    
    Good luck to you.  Hope the antibiotics clear up the rest of
    Patrick's fluid.
    
    Susan

    Check also for excessive consumption of red and yellow food dyes,
    especially yellow #3 and #5...these were problems for Kat.  Still are,
    for that matter. 
    
    --bonnie

    Thanks!  That thought never occured to me, but that sounds quite
    reasonable...
    
    -Susan

    I just read this in our local newspaper and thought others would find
    it interesting - it seems to fit in this note about ear infections.
    
    		Research links cigarette smoke to ear infections
    
    Exposure to passive smoke appears to increase the frequency and
    duration of middle-ear infection among young children , a new study
    suggests.
    
    Scientists studied medical records and blood samples from 132 children
    at the University of North Carolina's research day-care center and
    found:
    
    	* The 87 children with high derum levels of cotinine - indicating
    	  tobacco smoke exposure - had a 38 percent higher rate of middle-	
    	  ear infections during the first three years of life than the 45
    	  children with lower cotinine levels.
    
    	* Average duration of an infection was 28 days among children with
    	  elevated levels; 19 for children with lower levels.
    
    "This is significant because it shows that children exposed to tobacco
    smoke had a harder time breaking loose from the infection cycle," says
    researcher Nancy J. Haley.
    
    Smoking wasn't allowed in the center's child-care areas.
    
    The researchers say it isn't clear how tobacco smoke influences middle-
    ear infection, but one theory suggests that smoke causes an abnormal
    increase in cells and mucus secretion in the respiratory tract,
    possibly including the Eustachian tube and middle ear.
    
    

    Somewhat related to ear infections:
    My nephew (1.5 years old) has been plagues by ear infections.  His pedi
    started doing food allergy tests, and discovered several (wheat, corn,
    cow's milk, soy).  He was put on drops for de-sensitization, but it
    didn't stop the infections completely.  His latest test was for apple
    juice, and he had an extreme reaction!  Poor little thing was throwing
    himself around, stamping his feet, yelling and crying, completely out
    of control. The pedi said he wished he had used his video camera to
    tape it, because it was such a severe behavioral reaction.  Within
    seconds of receiving the antidote (antigen, whatever) he was his sweet,
    smiling self.  Time will tell if removing the apples from his diet will
    help his ears.
    Sarah  

   Well, this topic has been quiet recently, but I have a couple of
   questions anyway... :-)
   
   My youngest was recently diagnosed with a double ear infection.  Now,
   with 3 kids, I've seen my share of ear infections before, but this one
   was a little worse.  Apparently she also has a perforation - in the
   eardrum, I think.  My wife was told that this will heal itself up when
   the infection clears up.
   
   Q1> Just how bad is a perforated eardrum?  Is that what it most likely
   is - I think that's what they said, and its the only piece in there
   that I can imagine would get "perforated", but I'm not sure.  Is there
   anything that we need to watch for now that this has happened?
   
   btw - since this topic contains references to kids being on
   maintenance doses of antibiotics, and since I can't find another note
   related to this...  here goes question #2
   
   Abigail is 11 months old and apparently if this doesn't clear up
   properly (maybe they'll recommend it anyway given how crazy this
   winter has been already) she'll be on maintenance antibiotics for the
   rest of the season.  
   
   Q2> How did you help your kids avoid the "side affects" of maintenance
   doses - that is, thrush, yeast rashes, loose bowels, etc. ?   I know
   about "live" yogurt, but  I don't think Brenda is ready to start Abby
   on that yet... anything else you might be able to recommend?
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom

    re: .35
    
    Tom,
    
    My son has been on amoxycillin maintenance for 3 weeks now.  He hasn't
    experienced any of the side effects you mention.  My guess is that the
    dosage is so low (once a day versus 3 times a day) it does not cause
    the problems.  I can't imagine having to deal with a yeast infection
    for a month!
    
    Good luck
    Julie

   >Q1> Just how bad is a perforated eardrum?  Is that what it most likely
   >is - I think that's what they said, and its the only piece in there
   >that I can imagine would get "perforated", but I'm not sure.  Is there
   >anything that we need to watch for now that this has happened?
    
    My daughter woke up one Easter morning complaining that something
    was running out of her ear. The day before she complained that her
    ear hurt a little. I checked out the ear and sure enough, there
    was 'something' running out. Took her to a walk-in and was told 
    her eardrum had perforated. The doctor told me after an eardrum
    pops, the worst is over, painwise.  Antibiotics will take care of
    the infection that caused enough pressure to burst the eardrum.
    
    In the "olden days" doctors usesd to pierce eardrums during an 
    infection just to relieve the pressure. In your daughter's case,
    nature did the deed. 
    
    Jodi-

    Russell has been on maintenance doses of Bactrim (Sulfamumbledygook)
    and Gantristian (sp) on and off for the last 2 years.  He did develop a
    yeast infection during one of these period of time, but it was during
    the summer and I'm not positive the med's caused it.  Other than the
    one case, he's never had a problem, but, as usually, your milage may
    vary. 
    
    

My ear were chronically infected when I was small and even as an adult I have
had several infections.  Several times my eardrums have perforated.  When this
happens, it feels WONDERFUL because the pain before is excruciating.  It also
sounds like world war II in your head!  The only effect I have had from this 
is that I can now hear higher frequencies than almost any thing but a dog.  
High frequency resonance from televisions can be painful.

It will take a couple of weeks for your daughter to regain her hearing in the
affected ear.  You should also avoid taking her in planes or up elevators in
very tall buildings for a few months.  It can be very painful on a healing 
eardrum.

My children also had this a number of times.  Once will generally cause no 
problems but if it becomes a regular thing, scarring can occur and then 
there can be a reduction in the hearing.  This is why it's important to catch
earaches at the beginning.

Good luck
Cheryl

    When AJ was in the "diaper" stages and had to have antibiotics for a
    lengthy period, and believe me I swear he was one one antibiotic or
    another non stop for his first TWO years!!  When the pedi called in the
    anitbiotic, I would also ask for a prescription for one of the Nystatin
    powder be called in at the same time, to *prevent* the raw diaper area
    that always seemed to occur.  They understood and always called it in. 
    I just substituted this powder for the baby powder.  I always put a
    layer of petrolium jelly on before the Nystatin powder.
    
    Currently, at age 6, AJ has been on maintenance doses of Suprax for the
    last couple weeks, and will be on it for another two weeks until he has
    his ear tubes replaced.  I, and the ear specialist too, like the
    convienience of the Suprax because it is only given once a day.  He has
    never had any noticable changes in his stools while on either the full
    or half doses of this medication.  The doctor called is a
    "super-charged Ceclor" type drug.
    
    He was on Bactrim for an extremely long time as an infant because of
    all his urinary tract infections.  He was also low-dosed on Bactrim
    during a whole winter while we were trying to decide whether we wanted
    to do the first set of tubes.  No real adverse side effects with the
    sulfa based antibiotics either.  But everyone's kids are different.
    I don't see yogurt as harmful to anyone, it's a personal  decision.
    
    Lyn

    I have checked out a few of the notes in this string - 
    
    I was pleased that Charlotte was not showing any signs of the 
    re-occurring ear infection that seems to plague some children.
    Well, end of January she caught a cold and voila! both ears.
    (we all caught the cold too)
    
    10 days on Pondocillin and all was well.
    
    One month later, no symptoms other than the occasional sneeze,
    and irritability (Charlotte has proven to be, for the most part
    a very very happy girl despite early teething). Back to the 
    clinic on Friday, and we just started another bout.
    
    Well, the sitter has complained to me today that Charlotte is still
    pulling on her ears and crying hard when laying on her back.
    The clinic doctor suggested that the antibiotic should start to
    lessen the discomfort after about a day.  But this isn't happening...
    Is this often the case?
    
    Back to our Doc tomorrow....
    
    Monica
    (and yes, we got whatever she had too - I have lung congestion and 
    Alan got another cold from which a sneeze put out his back this 
    morning.....I *HATE* winter......)
    
    

    Monica,
    
    I've found that one medication doesn't always treat each individual ear
    infection equally.  The standard medicine here is Amoxicillin, it's
    pretty mild, it worked for Sarah's first ear infection but when she had
    the 2nd one it didn't work and after 2 days I had to go back and get a
    prescription for Bactrim.  Now the Bactrim worked fine on that ear
    infection but when she got #3 it didn't work and she was put on
    Augmentin after 1 week.  The Augmentin seems to have done it's job,
    than goodness.  The doctor wants to put her on a maintainence dosage
    of Amoxicillin so we'll, hopefully, not have to worry about any more
    infections.
    
    It seems like we're all catching each other's colds, too.  After
    Sarah's last cold/ear infection Michael and I both came down with the
    flu and we're still not 100%.  You can tell which people in my group
    have kids, they're the ones that are coughing and sneezing.
    
    Thank goodness Sarah seems like she's on a healthy streak (2 weeks and
    counting), it's nice having my happy girl back.
    
    Susan

    Hi Monica,
    
    Just wanted to give you an idea what we have been going thru on the
    topic of ear infections.
    
    Chelsea got her first one about 5 weeks ago.  It was a double, with the
    right ear being more infected.
    
    10 days on Cefzil (pretty strong) did not do the trick.  10 days on
    Augmentin and everything looked great.  No reactions to either
    antibiotic, which was great cuz this was her first time on them.
    
    Now we have been in the clear since the recheck on 2/26.  For the last
    week Chelsea has been tugging on her ear...could be a habit from doing
    it so much during the infection period...no fever, no night waking,
    no screaming.  So I have been laying low as far as running back to the
    pedi.  Well last night and this morning she started slapping the side
    of her head (always a wonderful sight!?!)..again no crying or fever.
    
    I'm taking her in today and having them checked.  Could be teething
    (no 1st tooth yet!), because she is swelled on the top and chewing her
    hand off...don't know if they slap there head during rough teething
    times.  I'm hoping her ears are okay, but I would rather check early
    then wait until she enters that high pain panic stage.  I'll let you
    know what we find out.
    
    Also...I was also told that the pain should diminish after a couple of
    days on the antibiotics...well it didn't.  We were doing plenty of
    tylenol and a couple a doses of pediaprofin.  I called the pedi and
    told her I was having a real problem giving Chelsea all these drugs and
    not seeing in sign of relief...she suggested ear drops (wish she would
    have done this first time around).  The ear drops were wonderful...you
    could see immediate relief and she was really very good about letting
    us put them in her.  Just a couple of drops in each ear and a little
    piece of cotton for a couple of minutes to make sure that it got good
    absorbtion.
    
    Well wish you luck!
    
    (How many teeth now??)
    
    ..Lori

Lori,

Do let us know how Chelsea makes out.  Noelle had her first ear infection
(a double) in early February.  I didn't have a clue until she spiked a fever.

Now, she's quite happy, but she's doing some ear rubbing and crying.  I
think it's related to her being tired.  She also rubs her eyes and her temples
before heading for the ears.  I hesitate to take her in for a recheck since
she hasn't had a cold, and she's quite cheerful.  And I sure do wish she'd
erupt that first tooth :-)

    I second the ear drops.  Because both of my kids had multiple ear
    infections, I asked my pedi what to do in the middle of the night if I
    was pretty sure that it was an ear infection, and she prescribed some
    drops to take away the pain.  These things are a Godsend !!!  They
    take away the pain for hours on end, and allow the kiddos (and me) a
    decent night's sleep until we can see the pedi the next day for an
    ear check.  It also helps keep down the pain level until the
    antibiotics kick in.
    
    -Joy
    

    Well I'm glad I took Chelsea into the pedi yesterday...he was too!
    
    The good news was she does not have an ear infection...the other news
    is that she is a prime candidate to roll into another one.  Since she
    is just a little over a week being in the clear from the first double
    ear (that took two rounds of antibiotics)....and she has a little bit
    of a stuffy nose...little bit of fluid in the ears...and a little bit
    of a red throat (lots of littles!...better then big!!), he said that
    she could easily get one at this stage.
    
    He felt that alot of the head slapping and tugging could be the
    teething cuz her gums are really inflamed (oh maybe we will get a first
    tooth by Easter!!).
    
    So the bottom line was to put her on maintenance for a week.  One dose
    of Vantin (2cc) each day for seven days.
    
    Hope this does the trick...I'm glad that I went...better to be checked
    then to have a head full of worry (and this first Mom has plenty of 
    that!)
    
    ..Lori

    Lots of notes about antibiotics.  But how to prevent ear infections
    from occuring or recurring?  How to build up child's resistance?  
    Vitamins?  Herbs?  Diet?  other?
    
    As an experiment, I'm taking KM, a Canadian herbal preparation, which
    is supposed to increase both physical health and mental well being. 
    I'm told that I can give my daughter 1/4 tsp. doses of KM and this
    might help.  Does anyone have experience with KM in children?
    
    Laura
    

    There was a report on the TV (a news magazine) last week that basically
    said Km was nothing but a goldmine to the marketing people.
    
    I had someone try to sell it to me, but I refused because I had already
    had experience with pyramid marketing.
    
    There was a Km professional who clearly stated that Km sales reps are
    "Not supposed to inform the public that Km has any positive health related
    effects on the public".  "Any rep who does is violating the truth and
    should be fired immediately"!!
    
    Km is said to have no positive effects, and it has not been determined
    if there are any ill effects.  Since it is herbal, it probably won't
    hurt - but definately won't help.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't give it to my kid nor would I take it myself.
    It tastes GROSS!
    
    -sandy
    

I'd be very wary of putting anything like eardrops in a childs ear on a 
regular basis. If it builds up, it can create one heck of a mess in the
ear canal, which can cause temporary hearing loss, excema, infection,
and excess wax production. Thie resulting gruel has to be removed. If
you're lucky, it can be done by your pediatrician in the office. If your
child has small ears, then it might have to be done in the hospital under
sedation. Guess how I know?

Chris

Our doctors here put people (children and adults alike) who are too regularly
ill on a cure of Bronco Vaxom.  I am now in the middle of a series of it.  Both
of my children have done it at some point.  

The series consists of ten capsules taken once a month for 3 months, i.e. take
ten days of pill, next month on the same day start the second ten, and then the 
next month the same.  The capsules contain five very common disease producing
bacteria (dead, of course) and the idea is that over the three month period
your prody produces antibodies to these bacteria so that when the live thing
comes along you can fight it off.  It also protects against other bacteria
related to the five.

I am the world's largest living petri dish.  I was so sick this winter that I
am willing to try most anything.  I will do another series next fall and get
flu shots of whatever is available next year.  Then my body only needs to
deal with the virii :-)

Cheryl

    Cheryl, 
    the clinic I went to last Friday (where the 2nd ear infection was
    diagnosed) said that if the baby has more than 4 infections in 6 months
    he or she is put on a preventative for 3 months. Bet that's the same
    thing that you are describing.
    
    Charlotte was and still is, experiencing discomfort with the ears.
    The doctor switched the antibiotic on her (from banana flavoured to
    bitter almond - no improvement IMO, and in Charlotte's opinion either!)
    she was still crying in her sleep a little last night (she NEVER does
    that normally). Since my cough hasn't improved, we're both home today
    (what good is a phone specialist if she coughs for 10 minutes after 
    saying hello to the customer!?!)
    
    Lori, Charlotte is working on tooth #8 and yes, for a while there she
    was slapping the side of her head (not very often now) and last week
    she started banging her head (hard, too!) on any available 
    hard surface. This upset me greatly until I read up on it in "What
    to expect in the first year". Its apparently something to do with
    the discovery of rhythm?
    
    Anyway, I am hoping this new medicine will do the trick - I hate 
    giving it to her as much as she hates taking it!
    
    Monica

Just thought of another thing.  (Thank God this is a long time ago fo me!)  One
of the kids had a lot of ear infections in a row one year and the antibiotics
weren't doing any good.  The pediatrician took a different route at this point.
Instead of antibiotics he prescribed some homeopathic drops plus Ciloprin for
the pain which went directly in the ear.  He also got some pain medicine with
suppositories (they're big on suppositories over here).  It took longer for the
infection to heal but eventually it did.  The additional pain killers were 
needed because without antibiotics, the pain doesn't go away immediately.

Whatever that kid had (can't remember if it was Markus or Dirk) didn't respond
very successfully to antibiotics and we had to go the drop method several 
times on other ear infections.

I have NEVER heard of "maintenance" doses of antibiotics over here but that 
might very well be my very limited experience.

By the way.  when going the drop method, the doctor watched very closely for 
signs of a perforated ear drum.  urts like h*$# if you put drops in then :-)

Cheryl

    I know this is petty, and obviously verrrry late, but just wanted add
    my thoughts on the ear drops.  Both my pedi and ear specialist advised
    NOT to add ear drops without their approval first.  Actually what the
    ear specialist gives is an opthamolic (ok eye drop) solution to his ear
    patients.
    
    In any case if I do end up using drops, just warm the slightly.  By
    slightly I mean hold the bottle under your arm pit for a couple
    minutes, or submerse in a cup of warm TAP water.  AJ is wonderful at
    taking medicine, but he will put up a bit of a fight over ear drops.  I
    have found quite a bit less fight, and reaction if the drops are just a
    little warm.  His word for putting drops in...
    
    I don't like it mom, it's CREEPY!  Oh well whatever he wants to call
    it, just as long as he takes it!
    
    Lyn

I don't think this has been mentioned in here, but they have chewable Amoxil
tablets for ear infections now.  Samantha (2.5 years) has two bright red ear
infections so the doctor gave us the chewable tablets (3 times a day) plus the
topical numbing ear drops for pain.  She's only been on them since last night so
no progress report yet.

She didn't run any temp but yesterday was complaining of her chest hurting so my
wife brought her in.  They said it was common for kids to relocate the pain from
their ears to some other part of their body.  Makes diagnosing fun....:-)

Dave

    Max had tubes put in his ears last year, did not have any infections
    during the summer but is right back to infections when the weather
    turned colder.  Had x-rays of his adenoids yesterday, will find out
    next week to see if this is part of the problem.  
    

I stayed in at lunch and read a few of Dave Barry funnies.  Here's one
you parenting noters can relate to!

Julie
================================================================================
Note 359.0               Barry, on The Pediatric Ordeal                2 replies
MANANA::RAVAN "just a brilliant disguise..."         84 lines   9-NOV-1987 21:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
		When Your Child Gets Sick...
			Dave Barry
		(from the Boston "Globe," Nov. 8, 1987

My wife and I believe that a good parent should spend a certain amount 
of "quality time" with a child, which is why at least once a week we 
take our son to the pediatrician to get an ear infection looked at.

Our son gets ear infections almost as often as the Democrats lose major 
presidential contenders, so we know, from experience, exactly the course 
of medical treatment that will be required to make him better:

1. He needs to stay home from school and watch rental cartoons on the 
VCR.

2. He needs to take antibiotics that, to judge from their cost, are 
made by grinding up emeralds.

Obtaining the antibiotics is the hard part, because of course we are not 
permitted to simply go to the drugstore and buy them. When we die and go 
to Parent Heaven, we will be permitted to do this. We will stride into 
the drugstore and say, "I would like to purchase exactly the same 
antibiotic that I purchased each of the previous 657 times my child had 
an ear infection," and the druggist will say, "Of course! Here you go!"

And 10 minutes later we will be back at our house, which in Parent 
Heaven will have a knot of cheerful retired nurses lounging on the 
doorstep 24 hours a day in case we ever need a baby sitter.

But, in the real world, to get the antibiotics, we must first go to our 
son's pediatrics group ("Eighteen Random Pediatric Professionals Inc."), 
which puts us through a ritual ordeal, similar to the way certain 
primitive tribes require that a young warrior, to prove his manhood, must 
fight a giant snake naked. Although the warrior probably doesn't have to 
sit in a waiting room first. "Go right on in!" he is probably told. "The 
snake will see you now!"

This never happens at my son's pediatric group. For one thing, for 
insurance reasons., there are no snakes there. For another thing, there 
are always several hundred children ahead of us, milling around the 
waiting room, coughing on each other and ripping pages from books with 
titles like "Earl the Eel Has a Big Surprise." The reason the waiting 
room is always so crowded is that at least seven-eights of the children 
- all the sick ones - are being "fitted in" at the last moment. This is 
a strange thing about pediatricians. They spend their lives wallowing in 
childhood disease, yet, when they set up their office schedules, 
it apparently never occurs to them that children are going to get sick. 
This is why the receptionist always sounds so inconvenienced when you 
call. "You don't have an appointment?" she says, disapprovingly, 
clearly wondering what kind of bozo parent would let a child get sick 
without an appointment. "OK," she says, "We'll try to Fit You In at 
4:30."

Meaning "Guam Standard Time."

After we pass the Ordeal of Sitting For A Long Time In The Waiting Room, 
we move on the Ordeal Of Sitting For A Long Time In The Little 
Examination Room With Nothing To Do Except Listen To Children Shrieking 
In The Rooms All Around Us. They have good reason to shriek: The Needle 
Nurse is on the prowl. The Needle Nurse is a person who lurks in the 
halls of pediatrics groups, like the person with the chainsaw in "The 
Texas Chainsaw Massacre;" just when the doctor leaves the examination 
room and the child thinks the nightmare is finally over, suddenly the 
Needle Nurse lunges in and stabs the child with a sterilized implement. 
As we watch her stalk past our doorway, I tell our son there's nothing 
to worry about, but deep inside I know that if there were the slightest 
chance that she was going to come after *me*, I would be sprinting 
across the parking lot.

Eventually the actual doctor arrives, and, of course, he is a stranger, 
because it is a violation of group pediatric ethics for a child to see 
the same doctor twice in any given five-year period. So the doctor must 
spend a large percentage of the examination time reading Robert's 
medical history, which consists of the words "Ear infection" written in 
657 different handwritings. Then, he frowns a medical frown into my 
son's ears, after which he turns to me and announces that our son has 
an ear infection, and I get ready to clap my hand over my son's mouth in 
case he starts to make some smart remark like, "We already *know* that," 
which might anger the doctor and cause him to schedule some blood tests. 
Then, finally, we leave, clutching a prescription form that says, in 
Latin, "These people have passed the Ordeal."

I try to look on the lighter side. At least we don't need a prescription 
for the cartoons.

    RE. prior.  PERFECT! RIGHT ON! Couldn't have said it better myself.
    
    And we 'wonder' why medical care costs are so high?
    
    You should write a column.
    
    Jeff

    I don't know,
    
    After the third ear infection with Carrie, my DO always called in the
    script, and then had me make an appointment for after the prescription
    ran out.  Maybe it's the advantage of a small practice family Dr.,
    instead of mega-practice groups
    
    Meg

    Meg,
    
    It is exactly because so many people have to deal with "Eighteen
    Random Pediatric Professionals Inc" that this rings so true. That
    you deal with a small practice is what makes the difference.
    
    There is nothing worse than to call the Dr.'s office and ask for
    an appointment and have to deal with A. Random Doctor M.D. who you've
    never seen beofre and may never see again!
    
    Stuart

    I know the doctors as a whole try to give quality medical care.
    Unfortunately the experiences related in Dave Barrys' Columm (a few
    back) is so TYPICAL that its funny.  The inefficiency I see in the
    medical profession just astounds me! If a normal business was run the
    way so many doctors' offices seem to be the business would fail in
    short order.  The normal laws of consumption and business practice
    simply doesn't seem to apply because the DEMAND is so great the
    'customers' will tolerate the inefficiency because there are no
    alternatives.  What are 'you' going to do when waiting in the waiting
    room with 25 squalling kids in it, after already having waited a hour
    beyond your 'appointment' time?  Get up and leave!?  Start all OVER 
    again with another Dr. while your kid is still sick?  No, of course
    not, so we tolerate it.
    
    I am not completely unsympathetic to the doctors side.  Emergencies
    come up constantly, they are overloaded big time, and people continue
    to bring in their sick kids unexpectedly.  So... they get behind, WAY
    behind.  Does does it have to be EVERY time I take my kid to one?
    
    Yes, it does seem to 'have' to be that way.  And for this we are paying
    more and more.
    
    Jeff
    
    

	We've had really good luck using oil drops in Andy's ears.  

	I don't know the inner ear well, so someone else is welcome to 
	correct me.  But, this is how I believe the oil helps.  When a 
	child gets a virus, oftentimes fluids begin to build up in the 
	tubes of the ears.  There is a very thin wall that separates the 
	inner and outer ear.  This wall is supposed to be permeable, 
	(allowing the fluid to drain).  But, when the air gets very dry 
	(like in the winter), it toughens up, and the fluids can't escape.  

	Apparently, by putting a drop of oil into each ear every night, 
	during the winter, the wall stays soft and permeable.  

	Last year, after his third ear infection in a row, we tried this 
	with Andy.  I originally got an olive/garlic oil at the health 
	food store, but eventually just used olive oil from the kitchen.  
	Someone else I know uses mineral oil.  I don't put these in his 
	ears every night.  But, as soon as he shows the first sign of a 
	cold, they go in at bedtime.

	Personally, I wouldn't try these with a child who had tubes in 
	his/her ears, or after the perforated eardrum has burst, since 
	the oil would probably go directly to the inner ear. 

	I think I first read about using oil drops in this conference, and 
    	then I talked to someone in my office who used them with her child.
    	I also felt more comfortable checking with pediatrician before trying 
    	them out.  She explained the theory behind using the oil, and sent 
    	me to the health food store for more information.

	Has anyone else tried using oil drops in your child's ears?  Andy 
	hasn't had an ear infection since we did.  I don't know if it's 
	luck, or if the oil really helped.  But, I'm grateful, either way.
    
	Peggy

Replace 'thin wall' with eardrum, and 'inner ear' with middle ear; otherwise
you've got the correct picture. Middle ear fluid is supposed to drain out via
the eustacean tubes into the back of the throat. If they are swollen, clogged,
or otherwise blocked, the fluid will build up in the middle ear. If the outer
edges of the eardrum are pliable enough, the fluid can seep out between the
eardrum and the ear canal. What this oil appears to do is encourage this.

IMO here's why I wouldn't use it without the advice of an ENT.

The oil, even inert oil like mineral oil, can bond with ear wax and create a 
debris that can make the situation worse. Keeping the area moist can invite 
an outer ear infection. Finally, the problem is only being circumvented by
using the drops. The problem of insufficient drainage of the middle ear
remains.

FWIW

Chris

    
    Actually garlic oil is a very common ear therapy both during infections
    and as a preventive. I know of several people who routinely  use this
    on their children (as recommended by a naturopath) and it was mentioned
    in that Mothering alternative therapy article that I mentioned in
    another note.
    
    	I feel obligated to say that if you ahve any doubts or if your
    child does not improve contact your Docotr, but other than that if ear
    infections were a problem in our house, I'd be using it.
    
    			Wendy

    
    My 22 month old daughter was diagnosed with an ear infection a week
    ago.  She has a history of too many ear infections to mention, but
    this is her first one in almost a year.  Since it had been so long,
    and it was only in one ear, they put her on Amoxycillin.  I was a
    little skeptical, because in the past it had always taken much stronger
    antibiotics to help her, but I figured we'd give it a try.
    
    She's been on the amox. for a week.  Her cold was getting much better,
    and she seemed to be doing well, until yesterday.  She spent several
    hours crying, didn't sleep well during her nap, and was up several
    times at night.  I called her Dr today, because I was concerned that
    the amox. wasn't working, and she needed something stronger.
    
    The nurse told me that 5-7 days into the antibiotic, the fluid in the
    ear "breaks up" and this is making her uncomfortable, and that we
    should just "ride it out" for a couple of days and see how she's doing.
    
    Has anybody ever heard of this fluid breaking up thing before?   This
    is my second child with lots of ear infections, and I've never heard of
    this.   My experience has alwasy been that the kids feel better after
    a few days on the antibiotics, but never had a recurrence of pain after
    5-7 days.  Was the nurse just blowing me off, or is this something that
    happens all the time, and my kids just never complained before?
    
    -L.

I'd call back and insist on having someone look at her ear (or have them
explain why they wouldn't get any additional data from an exam).  I'm 
hardly the veteran you are with regard to ear infections, but if I spent
another sleepless night I'd be *really* angry at myself (and the nurse) for
allowing this to go on unnecessarily.

Noelle (my 18-month-old) has only had 2 ear infections.  Both times,
she seemed to get instant relief from the Amoxycillin.  

Best of luck!

- Deb

    	My experience with our kids is that the pain of an ear infection
    lessens after approximately 24 hours on antibiotics.

    	Pain reappearing 5-7 days after starting an antibiotic is reason
    for concern. For one, it may not be the right antibiotic (not all
    antibiotics react to all bacterias).

    	I would take your daughter in for a check up.

    	And I have also *not* heard about this fluid breaking up thing. I
    would certainly question that information.

    			Wendy

Nurses and Dr's receptionists in many Dr's offices have one sole mission
in life ... stop people from seeing the Dr!

Call them back and say that you want the ear checked out, and don't want
another sleepless night!

    I have heard this "type" of thing before from my child's pedi's office.
    At the time, I took the advice and waited another day or so and
    my daughter did improve. The symptoms were not as bad as your child's
    though.  I would also insist on bringing her in, in your case.  

    I haven't heard of such a thing. My son has had a couple ear infections 
    and, like Wendy said, once on an antibiotic he'd get better in a
    day. At least twice with Andrew, he had re-occuring pain after 5 or 6 
    days on the antibiotic (first time it was Amox. - didn't work and second
    time it was Ceclor - didn't work either). I took him in immediately
    both times and sure enough he still had an ear infection. 
    
    I would take your daughter in if she is showing any of the classic
    symptoms. Ear infections can be extremely painful (I remember from my
    childhood) and are best taken care of immediately. Your pedi should
    be willing to see your daughter if you suspect anything is wrong with
    her. Or switch doctors. 
    
    BTW - the antibiotic that FINALLY worked for Andrew is Vantin (which is
    like Suprax (sp?)). 
    
    Hope your daughter feels better soon.
    Karen 
    

    Did you take her in??  I noticed that with Jonathan, ANYTIME that he
    takes a bath and his head "soaks" in the tub for any amount of time so
    that his ears are under water, I'm guaranteed a night of pain and
    screaming from him, the following evening.  Which is followed by a
    visit to the Dr the following day, which is followed by a visit to the
    pharamcist for the antibiotic of choice ...  This last time, he's been
    on Ceclor, and he had one of his "soaking" baths, about 1/2 way through
    the antibiotic.  The Dr. has seen him in the meantime, and said it was
    clear.  The bath was the night before last.  The ear infection is back.
    ...more ceclor!
    
    I wouldn't ignore the screaming - it's not just bugging you, it's
    killing her!

    re: .70
    
    Can't help but wonder....if there's a guaranteed correlation between
    soaking the head in the tub and ear infections, why soak the head
    in the tub????
    
    Just curious, cj/

    
    As an update to .64 - I did call the Dr's office back that afternoon,
    and told the nurse I wasn't satisfied with the answer she'd given me
    earlier in the day, and that I'd never heard of that happening before.
    She explained that what happens is that, as the fluid drains, the
    ear tubes can tend to collapse a bit, causing some discomfort.  She
    said it's similar to how you feel pressure in your ears in an airplane.
    I didn't really see the connection, but since my sitter had said that
    my daughter had napped OK that day, I decided to wait it out.  She had
    a much better night that night, and seems fine now.
    
    Thanks for all the advice!
    -L

Note: 130.70
Author: CLOUD9::WEIER "Patty, DTN 381-0877"

>    Did you take her in??  I noticed that with Jonathan, ANYTIME that he
>    takes a bath and his head "soaks" in the tub for any amount of time so
>    that his ears are under water, I'm guaranteed a night of pain and
>    screaming from him, the following evening.  Which is followed by a
>    visit to the Dr the following day, which is followed by a visit to the
>    pharamcist for the antibiotic of choice ...  This last time, he's been
>    on Ceclor, and he had one of his "soaking" baths, about 1/2 way through
>    the antibiotic.  The Dr. has seen him in the meantime, and said it was
>    clear.  The bath was the night before last.  The ear infection is back.
>    ...more ceclor!
 
Unless the child has tubes in his ears, I don't see how he is getting a middle
ear infection from submerging his head under water. Are you sure he's not
getting an outer ear infection (swimmer's ear)? If so, then I wonder why it's
being treated with a general antibiotic when it could be treated just as
successfully with an opthamalic ear drop. If he has tubes, and is really getting
a middle ear infection, you might want to invest in swim plugs.

Chris

    My son Mitchell, 15 months old, was diagnosed last Thursday
    with a double ear infection (one in each ear).  This is the FIRST
    time he's had an ear infection(s)!  All through his first year, whenever
    he got a cold and was congested, we always thought he'd get one, but
    our doctor would check and NOTHING.  After going a year without
    one, she (the doctor) thought he just wasn't prone to them and 
    probably would never get one and told me I was very lucky.
    
    Well, the one that was diagnosed last week was SUCH a surprise.
    He was scheduled for a well-visit to have shots and get weighed, etc.
    Well, when he woke up Thurs mornig, his temp was 104.5!  I was
    shocked.  When I picked him up he felt so hot so I took his temp.
    I decided to bring him in, knowing that they wouldn't give him
    his shots and use the appt as a "sick-visit".  Well, that's when
    she told me of the 2 ear infections.  She was as surprised as
    I was.  No symptoms (no tugging), no crankiness, no
    congestion, no runny nose, NOTHING to lead us to believe he had
    2 ear infections.  He was even playing that morning (it was 
    down to about 102.4 at the doctors office).
    
    My question is, how fast can an ear infection come on?  And if
    there was no congestion, why did he get one?  
    
    He's on antibiotics and childrens motrin (for a high fever that
    brought us to the emergency room that thurs night! that's another
    story... 105.3 at it's peak!).  He's doing much better, but I'm just 
    curious as to how he could get these ear infections without warning
    and without any pain (unless he has a very high tolerance).  All these 
    other notes I've read say that the kids scream in pain because of it.  
    I didn't think much about this until now because I've been too busy just 
    making sure his fever stayed down.  The fever was the only thing that
    really did him in.  He was like a limp, lifeless little person. I 
    couldn't help but cry seeing him like that. 
    
    Is there a note in here about fevers... couldn't find one.  I know that 
    high fevers can be dangerous and I wanted to look through and see if 
    others have experienced high fevers (over 105) in their children and what 
    they have done.
    
    Thanks for any info.  Like I said, this is my first experience with
    ear infections so I'm not real familiar with them.
    
    Julie

    I can't really answer how they get them, but neither of my kids has
    ever had any of the symptoms described in here. My kids had their first
    ear infection when we went in for something else. Turned out that
    Jessica had one ear infected and Brad had a double. Her ear infection
    took 2 rounds of meds to cure. There were no more ear infections [that
    I know of] til we went in this year for their 3-year-old well-baby
    check. Turned out Jessica had another ear infection, and this one took
    3 rounds of meds plus a maintenance dose, and I think she's clear now.
    
    The problem with my kids is that they don't get any symptoms at all
    when they get these ear infections, but I get this terrific case of
    mommy guilt because I didn't know they had one. Of course, I'm not sure
    how I'm supposed to know if they don't tell me, but that particular
    logic has nothing to do with me feeling mommy guilt anyhow.
    
    You may have a child like mine who just gets an infection but no other
    symptoms. In my son's case, I've come to expect that with most anything
    as he tends to not have symptoms with most things.
    
    Cathy

    re: fevers ..
    
    Although I can't help with a child's fever (I don't have any children
    yet), I can tell you basic ways to get a fever down.  I've had RAGING
    fevers when sick, sometimes over 105.
    
    The best thing to do is to get a washcloth and put it under cool water. 
    Then put it on the inside of the wrists.  That cools the body down. 
    Maybe on the forehead as well.
    
    Baby asprin will also help to bring the fever down (I used to have the
    same fevers when I was a child, and that's what the doctors always had
    me take).
    
    Holly
    

    Holly (-.1)
    
    Thanks for the advice about fevers.  I think this particular fever
    just needed meds to get it down quickly.  All during the day on Thursday
    it hopped all over the place.  102.6, 104.4, 103.5, 104.7, 105.3, 101.8...
    I saw them all!  I tried the cool washcloth (although not on the inner
    wrist - I'll have to try that) on the forehead and neck (which felt
    soooo hot), luke warm baths (was told not to do cool baths cause it
    might shock him since he was so incredibly hot), Tylenol, etc.
    
    He battled the same "fever-bouncing" all day Friday, but after a 
    a couple of the doses (1 ever 6 hrs) of children's Motrin, he was
    feeling better.
    
    It was amazing how when the fever would come down, he'd start talking
    and moving around, but as soon as it was back up again he became
    totally limp and drowsy.  He slept from 10-3 on Thurs (the day he
    went to the doctors) and in and out of sleep all day Friday on
    the lawn swing.  I think being outside did him some good as well.
    He slept great those 2 nights as well (thankfully, since I was so
    tired from taking care of the poor munchkin).  Fortunately, he WANTED
    to drink a lot, so we kept refilling a bottle with 1/4 apple juice, 3/4 
    water.  He didn't have the energy for a sippy cup those couple of days!
    
    ... and Cathy, I felt the same "mommy guilt" too.  But then when the
    doctor was also surprised along with me, I didn't feel so bad.  She
    said there was nothing I could have done and that the timing worked 
    out good since I had a "well-check" appt scheduled so that we could
    get him on the antibiotics immediately.
    
    The only reasons I can think of for the ear infection is 1) Teething -
    he's been cutting one tooth after another, including two molars, and
    2) he has a bottle in his crib in the morning lying flat.  This is
    the only bottle he has anymore and I sort of like it.  He wakes up
    around 6:30/7:00 for the bottle and goes back to sleep for another
    hour+ after drinking it....but could this be the cause of the double
    ear infection?  We been propping him up when drinking his morning
    bottle now, but I'm wondering if this is something I really should
    worry about.  I really don't want to stop the bottle since it's one
    of his largest servings of milk during the day.  The rest of the
    day he prefers water or juice...milk's just not as thirst quenching
    on these hot, humid days.
    
    Has anyone heard that this is fact (drinking lying down can cause
    middle ear infections)?  He's been having this bottle for many many
    months and has never experienced this before, so I'm doubting that
    this could be the cause, otherwise - why didn't it happen sooner?
    
    It's so heart-wrenching to see your child so sick when there's not
    too much you can do but hope the medications will help.   :-(
    
    julie
    

>    
>    Baby asprin will also help to bring the fever down (I used to have the
>    same fevers when I was a child, and that's what the doctors always had
>    me take).
>    

Aspirin is no longer recommended for children when they have infections, 
because of its links to Reyes syndrome when taken during some viral infections.
Granted, an ear infection is usually bacterial, but many bacterial infections
are secondary to a primary viral infection which has lowered the body's
resistance ... so there is always a question there.

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) has now proven to be the non-prescription medication
of choice for children and fevers, aches and pains etc associated with 
infections.  It is far safer at correct dosages (at overdoses, it is far
more dangerous, but that is another matter)

Ibuprofen (Children's Motrin or Advil) seems to be becoming the prescription
medication of choice for bringing fevers down.  This one belongs in the
"See your Dr. category"!

When a fever gets over 102, the most effective non-medicinal way to bring it
down is a cool bath. Cold flannels on the wrists help ... but at very high
fevers ... over 104, it is just not fast enough, because you risk convulsions
and seizures if it doesn't come down quickly enough.

It is said that fevers up to about 101, particularly if associated with a
viral infection don't require bringing down, since this is one of the
methods the body uses to destroy the virus ... many do not survive at
higher body temperatures.  So, unless a child is in pain or a lot of
discomfort, it is  now considered better to leave a slight fever untreated
and monitor it fairly closely.   Don't expect to routinely bring a fever
back to 98.6.

Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    Fortunately Mitch didn't have any convulsions (at 105.3+), but the
    doctor I talked with did mention the possibility and just said that
    if his fever didn't go down within the hour (we had just given
    him Tylenol) to head for the ER.  We didn't even wait the hour and
    just took the trip and are very glad we did.  It was so great to
    have his fever down below 102.. he was a different baby, not as limp
    and groggy.
    
    Thanks for all your notes and tips.  Hope I don't have to deal with
    a fever THAT HIGH ever again (but I won't keep my hopes up).
    
    julie
    

Noelle's only had 3 ear infections and I'm familiar with the Mommy guilt
because I don't recognize the almost-non-existent symptoms.  She always
has a fever when she has an ear infection, but she's also had fevers when
she didn't have an ear infection.  I've simply decided that I will take
her to the doctor's as soon as I can once I notice the fever just to check
things out.

#1 ear infection:  fever, crying whenever I laid her down for sleep; waking
		   up crying in the night ( 7 months old)
#2 ear infection:  fever, waking up crying in the night (14 months old)
#3 ear infection:  fever, waking up crying for a few minutes at her usual time
		   in the morning (21 months old)

With #3, I figured it couldn't be an ear infection because her nighttime sleep
wasn't interrupted and she was napping just fine.  Wrong!  Notice that
she consistently has them at 7-month intervals, so the next one will be due
around Thanksgiving :-)

    to .74:
    
    Take a look in previous Parenting and you'll see my note describing
    just your situation.  A number of times went in for well-baby and
    shots, diagnosis was 2 double-ear infections or at least one single ear
    infection!  Driving home feeling like a creep, etc.
    
    One time actually had her in for well-baby in the morning, everything
    was fine, rushed her in for 102.5 fever at 4pm to see a double-ear 
    infection!  Can it come on quickly?  You bet!!!!
    
    Our daughter stopped getting them when her last tooth (2yr molar) came
    in, not a single infection since, she's 4.  Our pedi and I have an ongoing
    debate/heated discussion.  I believe teething really changes the
    system, including digestive, and is absolutely related to the ear
    infections, he does not, his wife does.  Go figure.
    
    I will say, based on hard-learned knowledge:  if a fever goes on for
    longer than you want to see or if the baby has diaper rash/diarrhea
    which is bad and just doesn't clear up, get that baby into the pedi. 
    So what if they tell you there's nothing wrong and you feel foolish (as
    I have several times) at least you know the child is okay.  However, at
    the beginning I held off and didn't bring her in, only to find the
    fever, diarrhea were caused by ear infections which resulted in a
    behind that was raw and bleeding.  Clear up the ear infection and the
    others go away.
    
    Good luck.
                                             

    Boy can I relate to the mommy guilt.  The first few times Russell had
    an ear infections, the only sign was that he would whine a little in the
    middle of the night. This was when he was about 6-8 months old.  It
    seemed he settled into a pattern - when he was teething, he'd drool
    like crazy.  I think this made him a walking petri dish - perfect
    collection point for the cold of the week at daycare.  He'd come down
    with a cold, I'd wait a few days till he didn't sleep through the night
    like the living dead, call the dr, and get the 10 days of medicine. 
    Just about the time the medicine ran out, a new tooth would pop in.
    The Dr did admit while there was no official study that teething and ear
    infections were related, we were both convinced it did in Russell's
    case.

    I got to the point where if I had the *slightest* reason to think he
    had and ear infection, I'd bring him in.  There were lot's of times
    when the nurses thought I was crazy - but in all the times that I did
    it, there was 1 or maybe 2 times that Russell didn't really have an ear
    infection.  

    While Russell's infections got fewer when he stopped teething, he still
    got one just about every time he got a cold.  When he got older I could
    tell things weren't right because he couldn't hear correctly and his
    speech would take a few steps backwards.  Now he has tubes in his ears
    and hasn't had one since.  
    	
    	marianne

    This is a very timely note.
    
    During the last 3 weeks Nicholas (7mos) has been batteling a case
    of Bronchelitus (Viral). 3 weeks ago, after not sleeping through
    the night, and having a horrible caugh, I went to the Pedi, becuase it
    was the same symptoms as the previous ear infection...nothing!
    
    Due to the bad cold, and the possiblity of having him come down with
    the ear infection, he was put on a prescription of
    Amoxycilicin...even though he did not have one, Dr said it could show
    up later in the afternoon.
    
    That night we ended up in the ER because Nicholas was a lot worse,
    still no ear infection, and having a hard time with the caugh and
    breathing.....Due to it being Viral, there was nothing we could do :-(
    
    Well, 3 weeks later, when he had a loss of appitite, still a bad caugh,
    and just not right (however, he was still a happy guy), we took him
    back to the Dr's, he had a double ear infection, and Dr said on a scale
    of 1-10, they were 12's....Urgh! I felt horrible!! Pedi said not to
    feel guilty, that they can turn real quick....
    
    Some things that I have noticed the 2 times NIcholas has had ear
    infections, were:
    
    1) lost interest in the bottle ...was told its due to hurting too much
    to suck..causes pressure in the inner ear.
    
    2) Absoutely hated laying down! Would scream when put down for bed
    (which was quite unusual)
    
    3) He did not have a fever! Even when we went to the Dr's on Monday,
    his temp was 98.6  (go figure!)
    
    I still felt real guilty, but I have been doing everything I can to
    make his as comfortble as possible during this virus.... 
    
    I was told by my pedi that if I ever think he has something
    wrong...don't hesitate! so, I don't...
    
    Hang in there..
    Anne Marie

    re: .83
    
    Your lucky your pedi says "don't hesitate".  I like my pedi, but
    she tends to have an attitude of "don't bring him in unless he's
    really sick".  I'm sure she see's lots of kids worse off than 
    mine, but that doesn't mean she should minimize MY concern for
    my baby's health.  I spoke with a different doctor who was
    on-call the night Mitch had his really high fever due to the
    double ear-infections.  He was so nice and shared my concern
    for my son's well-being.  He told me to "watch him like a hawk"
    because it was a high fever even for a baby (104.7 and on its way
    up when we called him).
    
    Other than the fever, and the sleepiness due to the fever, 
    I can't remember any signs of him being uncomfortable...even
    lying down.  He slept fine the night before he was diagnosed,
    woke up with the temp (the only sign there was something wrong),
    and that's it.
    
    Oh, but AFTER he was diagnosed w/ the double ear-infection and
    was on antibiotics (amoxicillin) I did noticed that he didn't want
    to chew any food... must have hurt.  He didn't eat anything except
    for a couple of yogurts on Thurs and Friday.  But was drinking
    plenty of fluids (which is all the doctor really wanted).
    
    Thru all of this (the 2 worst days), it seemed all he wanted to
    do was sleep.  Lying down didn't seem to bother him, in fact if
    he was sitting next to me he would just put his head down on 
    my lap and out he went!  This was ULTRA unusual for my son (who
    is super-active), so I know he wasn't feeling well.  He was
    so wiped out from this.  But I guess sleep is the best thing
    for them when they're sick, right?  It just worried me a little
    that he wanted to sleep so much.  Even last night (a week after
    being on amoxicillin and motrin), he went to bed at 6:30 and
    didn't get up this a.m. until 7:00 - mommy sure enjoyed the sleep ;-)
    
    Could the medication be making him sleepy ?  
    
    julie
    

    
    I think the medication can make him sleepy...Nicholas seems to be
    needing a few more cat-naps lately since he has been on the Augmentin.
    
    re: Pedi/DR..he is great, he has even let us take him to his house (Yes
    we made the house call) because I was concerned about him. He told me 
    that the "mother knows best!"....which makes me feel great!
    
    Nicholas has been on Augmentin (for possible Pnemonia and double ear
    infections) for 4 days, and seems to be doing great. However if his
    caugh doesn't get any better by tuesday (when he is scheduled for his
    6mos checkup) we are going to have to get a chest x-ray to see why he
    hasn't been able to get rid of this horrible caugh for 3 weeks!
    
    Anne Marie

>    Your lucky your pedi says "don't hesitate".  I like my pedi, but
>    she tends to have an attitude of "don't bring him in unless he's

This is an example of why I prefer NOT to use a pediatrician but rather a
family doctor.  A pediatrician IS a SPECIALIST and a lot will take the
attitude ... "Don't bother me for routine stuff" especially if they are
in a busy practice.  And to be honest, I'd rather have a true specialist 
pediatrician and use a family doctor.

For a child to be sleepy and lethargic is common when they are ill ... but
this is by no means a "rule" ...  Also some meds will make some children
sleepy, including both the antibiotic and the motrin.  In some ways it is
better this way because the child's recovery can be better with extra sleep.
Some infections really can wipe you out.

Stuart

    Stuart..
    
    you guessed right, actually I call him my Peditrition but he is 
    actually in a Family Practice with his wife...
    
    I love them, and would not switch for all the money in the world.
    I actually have the same Dr as Nicholas...
    
    Anne Marie

	My doctor claims that ear infections usually follow some sort of
	virus (typically, a cold).  Lauren has had three ear infections.
	One of them was after a cold, one was concurrent with a cold, and
	the most recent followed a virus (not cold).

	The virus Lauren had last week was scary.  For the first time,
	I saw fevers of 104 and it was pretty scary.  Wednesday night she
	was up to 104 and the doctor I talked to just told me to get it
	down and not to worry unless it got over 105.  It didn't.  Next
	day I wanted to bring her in but they wouldn't see her unless she
	had a fever for over 48 hours.  Her fever was down below 100 
	during the day but Thursday night it was 103.9!  Next morning,
	we went to the doctors and they said she had a virus but the virus
	had also caused an ear infection.  Laurens fever never went back
	up but she had a rash on Saturday and was quite grumpy.  I think
	her ear was bothering her by then.

	Medication is a real joy to give Lauren.  She throws up the
	prescription Advil (and also the Tylenol).  She has a real
	aversion to that thick cherry syrup.  I tried Tempra once 
	(grape flavored) a few months ago and that seemed to go down
	easily.  The doctor sent me home with Motrin samples but I
	never got to try them.  They are orange flavored and not so
	syruppy.  HOWEVER... we were advised to purchase supositories
	for the next time Lauren has a high fever.  When her fever
	is high and her appetite is low, the last thing you want to
	do is give her something that will make her throw up!

	Luckily, she doesn't throw up Amoxicillan.  She gags and coughs
	over it though... do they make supossitories with Amoxicillan?

	Karen

    Re -1:
    
    If she developed a rash after running high fevers, she MAY have had
    Roseola.  Did the dr. mention this?  One of my kids may have had this
    at one time.  As far as I know, it's not a serious virus but those
    temps can be scary!
    
    I'm sure they probably make an amoxicillan (sp?) suppository.

    Karen
    
    Nicholas has been on Amoxycilicyn and not Augmentin for the last 3
    weeks.  We have a real hard time getting him to take the meds, so 
    it was suggested we put the med in his bottle, or mix some cereal with
    it..... It works!   He no longer fights me to get the med in.
    
    As for tylenol...the only stuff he will take is the grape suspension
    formula....I just wish they make it in bigger bottles!
    
    Anne Marie

    A suggestion .. does Lauren like applesauce?  Maybe mix the medicine in
    applesauce!  It's sweet, and may cover up the taste of the medicine. 
    Or if it's grape flavored, mix it into some grape jelly and maybe give
    her a small piece of bread with the jelly on it?
    
    I've got LOADS of trick to get meds into a child.
    
    Holly
    

	Well, the food idea will not work with Lauren.  She doesn't like
	food, especially fruit (this is all discussed in Baby foods note
	with me saying that she was getting better about eating... well,
	she got worse again).

	Anyhow, food doesn't work.  We haven't got to finger food yet.
	I tried putting Advil in her formula and she wouldn't drink it
	and it was in 4 oz of formula.  She very happily took 4 oz of
	untainted formula though!  I can give her Advil first thing
	in the morning and she will gag but nothing is in her stomach
	to throw up.  If it has been 2 hours since her last bottle,
	I take my chances....

	Karen

        Sometimes this works - 

    Put the dose of medicine in one of those dropper dispensers.  Slide the
    dropper between the cheek and teeth, preferably as far back as the kid's
    molar (or where the molar will be), and squirt.  Since it's so far
    back, and on the side, the kid is forced to swallow it.  This was the
    only way we could get medicine in Russell for a while.

    For asprin/tylenol - talk to your dr. about suppositories.  They were a
    godsend more than once when Russell wouldn't/couldn't keep anything
    down in his tummy.

    	marianne

>>    Put the dose of medicine in one of those dropper dispensers.  Slide the
>>    dropper between the cheek and teeth, 
	
	This is what we do but I don't think I put it so far back.  If
	I don't hold her mouth open long enough, she spits it out!  She
	also cries and this makes her cough and gag on it.  And she
	struggles.

>>    For asprin/tylenol - talk to your dr. about suppositories.  

	We do plan on that if the orange flavored stuff doesn't work.
	
	Karen

    Karen,
    
    REALLY - try the Tylenol Grape-flavored Suspension Drops.  It's
    different than regular infant's tylenol, as it's supposed to be easier
    to 'get down'.  It sure is for Jonathan!  I don't even like to give him
    anything else, because this goes down SO easy - he sucks it right out
    of the dropper.  The other stuff I have to try to squirt it in before
    he realizes what it is, and it can make him gag pretty bad sometimes.
    
    There are acetominophin (tylenol) suppositories.  They're not much fun,
    but definitely work - any drugstore should carry them.
    
    As for the Amox. or Augmentin, or whatever she's on .... Jonathan was
    on antibiotics for MONTHS, and the bigger he got, the more we had to
    give him, and he was getting REALLY tired of it!  The first 1/2 tsp
    wasn't bad, but when he went to a full tsp, it was almost impossible to
    get it all in him.  So, I asked the Dr. to change the concentration so
    that we could cut the dosage in half.  They looked at me a little odd,
    but saw no reason not to, and we did it.  So now, instead of getting 1
    tsp of (say) 125mg, he would get 1/2 tsp of 250mg.  Makes life a lot
    more pleasant for us all.  I suppose you could go for 1/4 tsp of 400mg
    as well, but the more concentrated it is, the more expensive it is too.
    (disproportionately so)
    
    And don't be afraid to request a different med if you really can't get
    it down her.  We've requested different antibiotics for several
    reasons, and the Dr was always happy to comply;  some are 2xday -
    that's easier w/ daycare.  Some need to stay cold - that was harder
    when he was a baby cuz he HATED the cold!  I think it's augmentin that
    comes in banana or pineapple, depending on the strength - try to suit
    your child's taste.  Erythramycin tastes *AWFUL*, really thick and
    kinda like cocoanut.  Pediazole is ery plus some other antibiotic, and
    comparatively tastes GREAT! 
    
    My 1st 2 kids I was always 'afraid' to tell the Dr. that I had a hard
    time getting particular medicine(s) into the kid (felt like a 'good
    mom' should certainly be able to do THAT!).  Now if there's something
    I'm sure he(#3) won't go near, or is REALLY going to fuss if I have to
    do, I'll talk to the Dr about it, and we can usually reach a more
    suitable alternative.  They do realize that if the kid's a royal pain
    about it, you're not going to do it, and they just want the kid to get
    better so will work to reach that end - even if it takes a little
    creativity.
    
    And if you're Dr. won't work with you, you might consider another ?
    
    As a last resort, when Jonathan had Whooping Cough, I used to sneak his
    medicine in the dropper - kind of a dirty trick - I'd feed him some
    formula from the dropper (he was too congested for the bottle), then
    sneak in a dropperful of medicine, followed quickly by another
    dropperful of formula.  He'd give me a puzzled look, but by the time he
    figured it out, it was done.
    
    Good Luck!

We mixed the grape flaveored tylenol (both syrup and crushed
tablets) with vanilla ice cream - our little one couldn't
resist that.

We do have the suppositories on hand in case of emergency -
but didn't have to use them last time.

    Hi Karen,
    
    Lauren sounds a lot like Shannon about taking medicine.  I always
    enjoyed watching "medical professionals" demonstrate how I could get
    meds down.  (Shannon would always vomit all over them;^) 
    
    Anyway, we used Fever All suppositories every time Shannon was sick.
    
    If she had ear infections, sometimes she would get a shot at the
    doctor's (to get some antibiotics on board quickly).  We always request
    Suprax for oral antibiotics.  It is pleasant tasting, but the best
    thing about it is the dosage (it is less than amox) and is only given
    once per day!!  I'm not sure if Lauren is old enough for it, can't
    remember what age we were able to begin using it.
    
    -hang in there!
    Beth

	One additional data point on the teething/ear infection
	link...

	Emily got her first tooth on December 26, 1992, and her first
	ear infection on January 2, 1993.  She was teething the
	whole month of January (~1 tooth every 2 weeks), and had
	three ear infections.

	She's never had another since then.

	Karen

	My son has his fourth ear infection since late September.

	He's been on Amoxycillan (sp.), Ceclor, Bactrim, and now
	Bioxin.

	The first two rounds seemed to clear up the infection for
	at least a week (or at least resolve it enough to lessen
	Andrew's discomfort), the Bactrim did absolutely nothing
	for the infection, and the Bioxin appears to be helping
	a little, but not as quickly as the first two (I judge
	his comfort by how late he sleeps - the more pain, the
	earlier he wakes!)

	The Bioxin is nasty stuff.  I made the mistake of trying to
	mix it with Andrew's meal the second day, and ruined the flavor
	of the whole meal.  I tested to see if it was too hot, and experienced
	one of the worst aftertastes ever.  It's on the bitter side, so
	now I mix it with a tablespoon of yogurt, then shovel in some
	"unmedicated" yogurt immediately after to try to cover any
	aftertaste (Just FYI for any parent that ends up trying this
	antibiotic on her kids)
	
	Anyway, the right ear has been involved in every infection.  I
	am beginning to wonder what will happen if the Bioxin doesn't
	cure the infection.

	Will they keep trying new meds ?

	Will they increase the dosage ?

	What is the risk to Andrew's hearing in the meantime ?

	Any comments would be appreciated.
	
	Thanks,
	Karen

	(PS, Andrew is 8 months old)

    My sisters' little boy had many ear infections during his first year of
    life.  The succession of medications he was given significantly
    contributed to additional problems with his stomach, diet, growth, and 
    other things.  It got to be very involved, with everything under the sun 
    suspected as being a possible cause to problems he was having; eventual 
    surgery for those 'tubes' (which is now also being looked at a little 
    closer) still did not solve the 'ear infection' thing.    
    
    In the long run, it's been determined that his little system just got
    so messed up with all the antibiotics that she has been a long time 
    getting him straightened out.  I would be extremely careful about
    allowing all this medication.  Some things I've been reading lately 
    suggest that much of this medication is unnecessary and that children's
    immune systems need to be allowed to fight this the first couple of
    times.
    
    She finally got to a point that she refused to let him be placed on
    another antibiotic, and took him to a homeopath.  He began making a lot
    of progress, and responding very well to remedies he was given.  I'm
    not suggesting this to you, but everyone needs to know that these
    medications can be the cause of some serious trouble in infants
    undeveloped systems.  I feel very strongly that they are given much
    to indiscriminately.  
    
    Regards,
    Lorraine

My 17 month old has had around 15 ear infections to date, most last winter
(14 of the 15).  He was on 5 or 6 different medications.  The problems are
that they build up an immunity to certain drugs so treatments must change from
time to time.  Also, Sulfa drugs cannot be used repeatedly due to problmems
with the stomach lining and all sorts of ugly side effects from prolonged use.

It's not important how they medicate, just that the fluid in the ear gets
moving again as quickly as possible to stem any potential hearing problems.

If you're concerned about hearing loss, they can do hearing tests after
around 6 months of age.  With frequent ear infections, it's a good step
for peace of mind.

j.

	Andrew's right ear finally cleared up, but he managed to
	come off the Bioxin with a "whopping infection" (pedi's 
	technical term) in the left ear.

	He's been on Vantin (?) since Friday, and I'm fairly
	sure both ears are healed.  We return to the pedi on
	Dec. 7 for a final check, his 9 month well-baby (ha ha)
	visit, and a lengthy discussion about his ears.

	BTW, I think it was the desperate prayers that worked
	best of all.

	Karen

    
    An update on Jonathan ....
    
    We had restricted his milk and tomato intake for several months, as he
    seemed to have a sensitivity to both, causing excess fluid to build up,
    which eventually led to infections.
    
    Over the past several weeks, we've added no more than ~6 oz milk/day,
    and no more than 2/week for any tomato products, and he's holding his
    own very well.  For the past week, he's had a whopper of a
    cold/sniffles and all that good stuff.  One of my other sons had an ear
    infection, and I asked the doc to check Jonathan at the same time
    (figuring this cold was probably about to result in a good infection).
    She said his ears look Perfect!
    
    The last 2 infections he's had, have cleared up perfectly w/in 10 days,
    not even leaving a trace of fluid behind.
    
    His hearing in very good, and seems to be "normal" (SUCH a difference
    from the 'half deaf' baby of about 8 mos ago!), and he's got good
    balance, and hopefully will be walking soon (he's still chicken (-;).
    
    So, for him, he seems to have outgrown the worst of his problems.  He's
    14mos, 10 days.  Yippee!!
    
    Patty
    

The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.  If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
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      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator
**************************************************************

Has anyone heard of doctors using a vaccine (called PNEUMOVACS) to reduce 
the chance of ear infections in children?  My doctors had suggested it last 
year for my child before going with tubes.  But he's just turned 2, which
is the minimim age the shot is effective for.  So they are again recommending
we try it, since he's again had a couple of infections (although fewer
than last year).

A nurse provided me with the standard literature on the shot--which is actually
targetted for Pneumonia.  Many elderly people are receiving the vaccine
when they get their flu shots. The write-up doesn't specifically call out 
ear infections-- but he claimed that they've seen 20% of the children cured 
altogether, 20% get fewer infections, & the rest have no effect (I think 
I have those stats right).

Has anyone heard of, or tried this?

Thanks

    Hi,
    
    I haven't had any experience with this, although given the choice of
    continuing the antibiotics and tubes, I would certainly give this an
    attempt.  I do know that many of the bugs involved with ear infections
    are getting progressively more resistant to antibiotics, and the
    chances of clearing one up and keeping it cleared are lessening each
    year.  
    
    I have had good luck with other vaccines, and if the listed possible
    problems aren't too daunting, I would go for it.  
    
    meg

    I have not heard of it. My suggestion, however, would be to get a
    second opinion from an Ear, Nose, and Throat specialist, (or a second
    ENT if  you're already working with one).
    

    Not sure this will really help you, but... My mother (61 years) JUST
    underwent surgery to remove her spleen. She was given this vaccine
    to help her fight off pneumonia and was told she should continue
    to get this vaccine. Never heard of it used for ear infections though.
    
    Marcie

    David has been complaining about his ear being stuffed up for about 2
    days. No pain, no fever.  It doesn't interfere with playing, just seems
    to be a mild annoyance to him.  He only mentions it when he's not busy
    doing something else.  He hasn't had an ear infection since he was an
    infant, so I'm wondering if this is a precursor, assuming an infant
    can't tell you their ear feels funny until the actual infection sets
    in.  He's 5, BTW, and is bothered by pollen allergies.  The pollen
    count is so high around here, I'm wondering if it's just congestion.
    Any adults with ear infections, does this sound like we are heading for
    one?  He has not been swimming, so I don't think it's water.
    Sarah

    
    Is there a possibility that he has some wax buildup that's not 
    visible in the outer ear?   Maybe try an earwash?  
    
    Or if it's congestion due to pollen allergies - is there something
    he can take that might help clear the congestion/ears? 
    
    Carol

    When I look in his ears with a flashlight, I can see lots of wax way
    in. I tried the Murine ear wax removal thing, but nothing came out. I
    assume some wax should be in there for protection of the ear canal?
    I searched for a decongestant that specifically mentioned ear
    congestion, but they don't exist.  In the meantime, I'm giving him
    half-doses of Children's Sudafed, hoping ANY decongestant will help.
    Still no change, still no fever, no discomfort.  I think it's time for
    a call to the pedi : (
    Sarah

    Dunno what Murine Ear Wax Removal has that good old hydrogen peroxide
    doesn't (perfume, coloring, water, glossy box, higher price?). 
    Yes *some* wax should be present but ears that churn out lots of it
    will replenish it shortly :-) .  I think the only drawback to hydrogen
    peroxide is that it fizzes as it breaks up the wax, so it's LOUD and
    tickly in your ear.  It gets a little warm, too, but not hot.
    
    Leslie

	When I've used the ear wax drops, I've rarely noticed much
	wax coming out of the ear.  It dissolves it, and I catch
	most of the liquid with a cotton ball, but it doesn't look
	much like wax (just a hint of color to the liquid).  This has
	been when the pedi has said, "Get rid of some of that wax", so
	there's been a significant amount to clean out.

	(My son could open a candle factory :-\ )

    The Murine stuff has hydrogen peroxide and mineral oil; softens and
    bubbles out. He said it was better last night, so I'm going to hold off
    on the doctor for another day or so.  Still no pain, discomfort, or
    fever, so I'm going on the assumption that wax, congestion, or both are
    causing the sensation.  
    Sarah

    What a week!  Angeline was not feeling well all week, but couldn't
    put my finger on it.  I suspected ears, but she's teething like nuts
    and had diarrea on Tuesday and I guess all the signs of what hit her,
    I was attributing to teeth.
    
    Wednesday morning she had a fever just over 100 and I gave her Tylenol.
    She was acting fine, so I left her at her sitters.  Mind you, this was
    entirely against every feeling inside me that said I should stay with
    her.   I called the sitter around 10:00, and Angeline was just fine,
    no temp, having a ball.  So I relaxed a bit.
    
    At 2:00 the sitter called to tell me Angeline was really sick.  She'd
    thrown up her lunch.  The sitter had felt she was a little warm and gave
    her more Tylenol and put her down for nap.  When Angeline woke from nap
    she was burning up, her skin was all red, and she registered 102.3
    under her arm.   Mommy FLEW out of work and drove the 50 minute ride
    in about 40 minutes to her baby, mad the whole time at myself for
    leaving her to start with.
    
    Broke my heart when I saw her.  She was just a piece of limp meat.
    She didn't even acknowledge me when I came in.  I took her home and
    called the doctor who is on call on WEds. afternoons.   It was about
    an hour and half before the doctor reached me and probably about two
    seconds before I was going to the emergency.  Her temp was at 103.8,
    but it was her state that scared that heck out of me.  I've seen her
    at 103.9 and she looked better than this.   
    
    Just prior to her doctor calling me, I had given her some Motrin,
    although only about 1/4 tsp.   The doctor said to up that to a full
    teaspoon.  Within 45 minutes, what a difference in my kid!  She's was
    playing and yakking.  And the slowly rising panic subsided.  The Motrin
    maintened her fever to around 100 or 101 overnight until I could see
    the doctor the next day.   Turns out, she caught a bug and had nasty
    ear infections.
    
    I tell you though, it is so hard to sit and hold that poor hot, limp,
    body when they're sick like that!  And to keep your head on level.  I
    can't imagine how parents with a truly ill child survive!  By the time
    I got her settled I really needed a hug, or drink, or something. 
    Another one of those moments when being a single parent is hell.  I
    just needed a little pat on the head "it's ok now honey, you did ok".
    
    So, she's still hitting the high numbers, but the Motrin has got good
    control of it, and last night we got some sleep.   
    
    						cj *->
                                         

    cj,

    I can sympathize about the not-so-great-part of being a single parent
    when the kid is sick - I went thru this many times with Matt (he's now
    10 3/4) and it was never fun !  Give yourself a treat for getting
    thru it and know that it's one of the things that *does* get easier
    as they get older and can tell you better when they don't feel well !

    warm electronic hugs from another single mom,
    Debbi

    Thanks Debbi,
    
    It was a long week, with her fever finally maintaining itself around
    99 by Saturday morning.  Of course, she also woke up that same day
    with conjuctivitis :-}.   It just doesn't end sometimes.  But we're
    both in better spirits.  She gets pretty mad when it comes to the
    eye drops though.   What a wrestling match that is!   But she forgives
    quickly and still loves her Mum.
    
    						cj *->

    I know what you mean about a long week..........

    In the "it's my turn, I guess" category, I took Matt to the dr. a
    week ago *last* Friday (the 8th) and the dr. said it wasn't
    allergies that was causing his cough but walking pneumonia - he went
    onto erythromycin (sp?) pills but they really bothered his stomach, so
    in order to reduce the dosage, he was switched to liquid so we could
    cut him down to 200 mg rather than 250 (pills don't come smaller than
    250 and you can't cut them)......

    anyway, I thought he was getting better - finally slept through the
    night without waking up coughing Friday and Saturday night (16th, 17th)
    but on Sunday and today, he's back to coughing up a storm again - can't
    go more than a couple moinutes without coughing, even tho' I've given
    him cough medicine..........

    so, he's in bed coughing, I've got the humidifier running and planning
    on working from home tomorrow so I can call the dr.'s office and see if
    they can see him *again* !!!!!!

    and here I thought we were both going to finally catch *up* on sleep !

my sympathies, Deb....

Noelle had pneumonia last fall and it was rough
going for several days.  She could only sleep
sitting up because of the cough and she would
only fall asleep on me.

- Deb B.

    .117
    
    My daughter had pheumonia last winter.  It was horrible.  Her doctor 
    gave her a prescription cough medicine, Robitussun AC.  It was the only
    thing that would work, she could only take it at night cause it makes
    her a little loopy.  She still uses it when her cough gets real bad
    from her allergies.
    
    How old is your son?  Does he have allergies?  You might want to ask
    about using an inhaler.  It's worked wonders for my daughter.
    
    Kirsten
    

   re: 119

    Matt's 10 3/4 - he'll be 11 in November - no allergies that we know of...

    he's taking Brook's brand (Robi)tussin CF right now (decongestant, cough
    suppressant and expectorant) which works fine to control the cough but
    as soon as it wears off......

    I'm mostly concerned because they reduced the antibiotic so it wouldn't
    bother his stomach so badly - I'm hoping it didn't end up causing the
    walking pneumonia to not get cleared up fully afterall.....

    well, we'll see what happens this afternoon - he's going back to the
    doctor at 3 p.m.......

	How is Matt doing?

	Karen T.

     Karen,

     Matt is doing *much* better, thanks for asking......

     I took him back to the doctor and he (dr) felt that the walking 
     pneumonia was pretty well taken care of by the antibiotic and since
     the coughing had restarted *while* he was still on the antibiotic,
     it wasn't a reoccurrence.   Instead, he had us finish off the last
     dose of antibiotic and put Matt on TAVIST antihistamine and DELSYM 
     cough medicine to 'dry him up' and we ran the humidifier for a few
     days (until the rain did it for us !!) - he's still coughing a little
     but we also stopped the stuff over the weekend (after 5 days on it)
     to see how he'd be - so far, so good !

     now to just finish catching him (AND ME!) up on SLEEP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Debbi

    Aaron (8 months, a few days) has had a number of first's recently. 
    This past weekend he took his first few steps, had his first bump on
    the head (because he took his first few steps when mom didn't expect
    it).  He has also been fighting a cold with croupy coughing in the
    middle of the night.  He was waking me up 2 or 3 times a night having a
    coughing fit.  I'd run in and pick him up and rock him if it wasn't
    very bad, he'd just sleep in my arms.  If it was bad enough to wake him
    up we'd go in the bathroom and turn on a hot shower and "take a sauna".
    
    I took him to the doctor on Monday who checked his chest and said it
    was clear, unfortunately he has an ear infection (another first). I've
    been watching him like a hawk since the cold started for signs of an
    ear infection.  There's been no fever, no ear-tugging (no more than
    usual, at least), no screaming when he lays down...the only unusual
    thing that he's been doing is rubbing his face under his eyes, and I
    assumed that was because he was tired from taking pediacare and/or
    tylenol.
    
    He's sleeping better now, he only coughs a little through the night.  I
    didn't get up at all last night, so I feel better also.  I just hate
    having to have him on antibiotics so soon.  And I hate knowing he had
    some pain because of the ear infection and I didn't know it.
    
    sandy

Sounds like Aaron is pretty close to Noelle's pattern...

She's 3 now, but she had her first ear infection at 7 months 
-- a double ear infection, to boot!  I was shocked because
I expected ear tugging or crankiness or green nasal discharge.
The two symptoms were:  1) fever, and 2) she was no longer
sleeping through the night.

So, of course I thought I'd recognize the next ear infection.

Wrong!  I ended up taking Noelle to the doc everytime she
ran a fever.  Luckily, she doesn't run a fever too often.

Hope the little guy feels better soon!

- Deb B.

    I've been through this a few times also.  I may be you were actually
    lucky and caught the ear infection early.  I've had the kids to the
    doctor a  couple of times for wheezing only to find out they had a ear
    infection just starting.  
    
    It is hard to see them sick, but be glad this is his first time on
    antibiotics.  Also, take heart that most kids outgrow the ear
    infections with age.  Maggie had many of them until about age 2 and
    then they stopped.  Katherine (as you know) had them constantly last
    year but now has been free for about 5-6 months.  Also, we had many
    times last year that daycare told us Katherine had an ear infection
    because of her tugging her ear.  What it turned out was one of her
    habits when she was tired or cranky (even with just a cold) was to pull
    her right ear.  So, you really can't tell with ear infections.  From my
    experience, by the time they're running much of a fever and crying
    everytime they lay down, the infection is quite bad.  
    
    Good luck,
    
    Irene

    I'm really relieved that Aaron's "croupy" cough is almost a thing of
    the past.  He must have inherited it from me.  I remember  being
    awakened by my mother when she'd grab me out of bed and stick my face
    behind the shower curtain, It took a few minutes to figure things out
    since I was coughing in my sleep!  It's really frightening to wake up
    to a baby who's coughing so hard he's gagging (and who's still asleep).
    
    The past couple of nights he's coughed a few times but not bad enough
    that I feel I should pick him up and hold him.  And I feel much better
    now that I'm sleeping again!  Aaron is pretty much momma's boy right
    now, I'm that one that can comfort him, Steve's the fun one to play
    with!

    
    Laura's 9 months old and is finally over an ear infection that took
    3 different medicines before it cleared up. It never got really bad
    but it was persistent. Boy was it nice to hear last friday that both
    ears were clear.
    
    Now we have her on a maintenance dose of an antibiotic (the name
    escapes me). I wasn't sure about doing it but her doctor thought
    it was the best way to go. I've heard alot about antibiotics being
    overprescribed so I'm wondering if I should have waited it out for
    a while. But with winter coming and her brother in school now I'm
    hoping it will help keep her healthy.
    
     One thing that's nice is that Laura is back sleeping through the night
    again too. Her only signs of the ear infection were a slight temp and
    crying about 20 minutes after you laid her down. At first I let her cry
    for a few minutes before going to get her. Then after I found out she
    had an ear infection I felt like a real heel. Then I found myself
    running in at her first peep. I must of been up & down 5-6 times a
    night for about the last 2 months. What a difference to actually sleep
    a whole night through!
    
                         Barbara
    
    

    
    While they have the Croupy Cough, you might try running a humidifier at
    night. It helps relieve the irritation in their throats from all the
    caughing they do.
    
    Last winter and early into the Spring, we ran the humidifier in
    Nicholas's room every night. And the nights we did not, we paid dearly!
    
    Anne Marie

    Yup, we started running the humidifier in Aaron's room as soon as he
    developed the cough, it didn't help as much as we had hoped.  I may get
    a warm mist humidifier for when he has colds (so we can add Vicks vapor
    rub to the air) and use the cool mist humidifier the rest of the time.
    
    Now about ear infections.  We had amoxicillan prescribed for Aaron and
    have been giving him 1 tsp 3 times a day as prescribed, but we seem to
    have only gotten an 8 day supply rather than a 10 day supply as the
    doctor prescribed.  I've got a call into the doctor's office to see if
    they want to prescribe another couple of days worth.  I'm just
    wondering if this has happened to anyone else.  We're using a dropper
    that has a tsp marked off, I assume it's correct, and no one has
    spilled any...  Has anyone else had this happen???
    
    Aaron is feeling much better.  He's back to his usual 30 to 34 oz of
    formula each day and wolfing down the solids as well.  And when we get
    home from work/daycare it's hard to slow him down enough to feed him
    (and us) especially if the cat's in the area!
    
    
    sandy

  We have also had a problem with the antibiotic lasting the full 10 days.
I mentioned it to the doctor once and he said just to make sure they finished
the bottle.  I'd be curious to know what your doctor says.  We also always
have the ear rechecked after 10 days.

Elizabeth

    If you look at the bottle, it should say how many milliliters were
    dispensed.  If it says less than 150ml, I'd ask the pharmacist.
    
    We've run out of antibiotics 1-2 doses early, but never 2 days early.
    
    Irene

    I always called to make sure Carrie got the full 10 days, even if it
    meant paying for an extra prescription.  Since I am limited as to the
    antibiotics I can take, I try not to run the risk of creating more
    antibiotic-resistant bugs by not running through the full time.
    
    meg

    
    We also ran into the medicine running out 2 days early and when I
    spoke to the nurse she said that was ok as long as she finished the
    bottle. With the 2nd & 3'rd rounds of medicine we came up 1-2 doses
    short. My pedi said it was probably evaporation and nothing to worry
    about. But in the future (which hopefully won't be soon) I think I'll
    insist on the whole 10 days. I also found that the twice a day verses 
    the 3 times a day lasted longer.
    
    But it makes me wonder if this ear infection could have been cleared up
    the 1st time if I had kept her on the whole 10 days. 
    
    The humidifier is a good idea too. I find it helps when the kids have a
    cold. Last winter when I was home with the baby and my son stayed home
    with us we didn't get a single cold! That was the first time in years.
    It's so much fun when all these germs start getting passed around.
    
                       Barbara
    
    
    

    Caitlin is on her second ear infection within a month. I also
    ran out of medicine approx two days early. When I questioned the DR, she
    said it was because we couldn't be very accurate when measuring the
    medicine. She also said that if she is on the medicine at least 5-8
    days consistently, then finishing the medicine was just to make sure.
    I don't ever remember this happening before though. In the past, the 
    medicine always lasted 10 days.
    
    Marcie

    I just spoke to Aaron's pediatrician.  She said that if he seems to be
    doing ok that 8 days is enough.  I told her that with all of the
    stories I've read and heard regarding producing "bugs" that are
    antibiotic resistant because the antibiotic was not taken the full
    amount of time I would prefer to continue the antibiotic the full 10
    days.  She agreed and is calling in the antibiotic for him now.
    
    It's a tough call.  I don't want to over medicate Aaron, but I also
    don't want to undermedicate him and have him need stronger and
    stronger antibiotics as time goes on and we try to get rid of
    infections.
    
    Thanks for your thoughts everyone!
    
    sandy      

   A comment on humidifiers... there's a balance to keep with moisture in
   the air...  If the air is too dry, it will irritate the airways, but
   if its too damp (no, not rain in the bedroom, but there is an optimum
   humidity) it can encourage the growth of dust mites, which can
   aggravate some forms of asthma.  So... please be aware of what you are
   dealing with and what conditions you are treating... in this case, too
   much of a good thing just might be a bad idea..
   
   ymmv,
   
   - Tom

   We went through this a couple of months ago - one of my kids is on
   medication permanently for a condition that he may or may not grow out
   of, so we are very aware of how we handle suspensions.
   
   If the pharmacy gives you *exactly* enough suspension to meet the
   prescription, its very likely that you won't have enough for all the
   prescribed doses.
   
   Lest people think they are doing something awful in the way they are
   dispensing medicines... you're probably not.  There are at least a
   couple of ways that "runoff" can occur, and that can add up quickly
   depending on how you are dispensing it.  
   
   For example...
   
   o If the bottle is taller than your dropper, then you have to tip the
     bottle to get to the end of the medicine... there is always some
     that you will not be able to get because its the part that is spread
     across the bottle as it travels.
   
     You might be able to use a smaller bottle or a taller dropper, but
     that doesn't completely get rid of the issue.
   
   o If you are using one of those gizmos where you stick a rubber "cork"
     into the bottle and then use something that looks like a syringe to
     get the medicine out as you tip the bottle over... there is always
     some that sticks to the cork and gets washed away as you put things
     away.  There's also a point where the medicine level falls below the
     hole in the cork, and you don't get any of the last bits that way
     either.

     The medicine always sticks to the cork - even if you try to leave
     the cork in and let the medicine drip back into the bottle, there is
     a suprising amount still stuck on the next morning.  BTW - I do
     *not* advocate doing this - it means that you have to leave the
     bottle unprotected - the child proof cap is off, and it might get
     spilled, or worse.  But, we did try it out to see if it mattered.
   
     You can try different "corks" - we found that different vendors use
     different shapes and different holes, and some were definately
     holding onto more medicine than others.
   
   o Yes, its possible that inaccuracies can creep into measuring it out
     as well.  You might want to talk it over with the doctor or the
     pharmacy in regards to getting a dispenser/dropper that can measure
     CCs - its a finer granularity than TSPs, and might give you less
     runoff, depending on your situation.
   
   If you think you are having runoff problems, talk it over with your
   doctor and pharmacy.  Some dispensers are better than others, and some
   bottle shapes are easier to use.  Also, there is a way for the doctor
   to write a prescription that will allow you to get a few CCs extra to
   account for some runoff.
   
   fwiw,

   - Tom

Also, another reason for finishing meds early ... or late ... 

When is a teaspoon not a teaspoon ?   when it's 6 ml or 4.5 ml ... 
A teaspoon is generally accepted in medical circles as 5 ml ... but some
are 6 ml ... and a very few are 4.5 ml.

Stuart

    We had the problem of running out early a couple of times (once because
    I spilled the bottle!).  When it was a significant number of doses, I
    called the pharmacy.  They just told me to bring in the bottle, and
    they added a little extra.
    
    Peggy

    I'm curious now. We're using a syringe type measuring gizmo.
    It is measured in both ML and 1/4,1/2 etc teaspoon. I don't use
    a cork, but I do have a small (in diameter) long tube to get the
    medicine out. The curious thing is, this has just started happening
    within the last 6 months. We've always used the same method for
    measuring and dispensing. Are they just GIVING us less? The DR
    didn't seem concerned, but I'm going to ask my pharmacist to see if
    they can explain it.
    
    Marcie

    Another thing I have noticed w/the new medicaines...
    
    They are real thick! and as someone else mentioned, we loose a lot when
    it sticks to the cover, the neck of the bottle, pour a little to much
    over the edge of the spoon.
    
    

    Actually, the doctor mentioned the thickness.  She said that with the
    thickness of the medicines these days, they tend to be used sooner.  I
    really don't understand why personnally.  I just feel that it's worth
    the extra $3.01 that I spent to get some additional medicine to ensure
    that he's getting the full dosage (since it's possible that some was
    spilled or enough was left on the dropper that Aaron didn't get the
    full dosage).  I had to take an extra 5 days, but will only use the
    additional 2 days needed and will throw the rest away.
    
    sandy

    
    I ran short of the antibiotic a few times and took a different approach
    than has been mentioned - I blamed the pharmacy.  I wasn't trying to be
    mean but I was very upset it ran out because we had been very careful
    in our measurements.  The pharmacy was willing to fill another
    prescripton but wanted to charge me.  I felt I shouldn't be charged
    because I was short so much they must have erred in the amount they
    gave me.  They felt they weren't to blame because the consistently of
    the medicine is thick so it often happens that people run out.  I felt
    they should consider this when they fill it in the first place. That
    if this is a factor with the medicine, the customer should get the
    total amount required to fill the doctor's request right upfront. I felt 
    we shouldn't have to deal with the problem when they were already aware 
    of the cause. I asked them to change their policy in the future - to 
    factor in the amounts really needed for the patient to fulfill the 
    prescription and give the customer a little more in the first place.
    After a spirited discussion they gave me a new bottle free and I've never 
    had the problem since. I think they do give more now because I usually 
    have a bit left over which I appreciate.
    
    Kathy

If the stuff is so thick that you can in essence overfill the spoon, then
it is very conceivable to run out early.

The amount prescribed is usually as total amount, and the dosage rate, rather
than 'n' doses.  ie the Dr writes a prescription as "150 ml of xyz to be taken
1tdp (5ml) 3 times daily" ( until gone). Not as "5ml 3 times daily for 10 days."

So, the amount prescibedd should be correct.  Most prescription liquid med
bottles should have level marks on them ... have the pharmacy prove the
amount in the bottle is what it is supposed to be.  E.g. take a measure and
an empty bottle and fill it with n ml of water and compare levels.

Stuart

    Actually, my doctor wrote the prescription for Aaron as "1 tsp 3 times
    day for 10 days" not until gone.
    
    sandy

>                               -< Not my doctor >-
>
>    Actually, my doctor wrote the prescription for Aaron as "1 tsp 3 times
>    day for 10 days" not until gone.
>    
>    sandy


What I was driving at is the instructions to the pharmacist ... not the
instructions on the label.  If the isntruction to the pharmacist was just
like that, then, I can imagine the amount being calculated incorrectly.
It only takes the pharmacist to say a tsp is 4 ml and not 5 and you are
short by 2 days.

Stuart

    
    There's only one problem with blaming all this on the pharmacy - most
    of the kids liquid antibiotics come pre-measured from the drug company.
    The pharmacist just adds water.  So it's difficult to impossible for
    them to give you a "little more" or a "little less", as it can only be
    prescribed in "full bottle" amounts.  The only one that I'm sure that
    we've gotten that the Pharmacist actually measured the medicine, is with
    bactrim.  All the others, they uncap a bottle add x-amount of water,
    shake it, stick your Drs orders on it, and it's done.  Then YOU have to
    keep it cold.  I'm 98% that *ALL* of the 'must be kept cold'
    antibiotics are this way (that would include amoxycylin, augmentin,
    lorabid as well as others).  I'm not positive about the "room temp"
    ones (bactrim, gantrassin etc).  
    
    So, if you're using one of the pre-packaged ones, and the pharmacy adds
    the wrong amount of water (you should switch pharmacies!!), you're
    still getting the same amount of medicine, just a stronger dose over a
    shorter time.  Which may also be why the Drs are less concerned and
    seem to be saying "just take the whole bottle", be it 8,9,10,or 11
    days.
    
    Also, for the pre-packaged ones, I will usually ask the pharmacist NOT
    to mix it, and they give me the sterile water, and the bottle of
    powder, and I mix it myself when I'm home so I can pop it right in the
    fridge.
    
    .... the same as a Dr, you need a pharmacist that you trust, and that
    trusts you!
    
    
    

    You know Patty your point is well taken.  What I actually get now are
    bigger bottles.  Perhaps they're not just adding more in the same size
    bottle but issue a larger bottle. I had also discussed it with the
    pediatrician. Perhaps they altered the way they write the prescription.
    I'll have to check the next time I have to fill one.  Now that winter
    is coming it shouldn't be too long a wait.
    
    Kathy

    Aaron has another ear infection.  His first was Oct. 2 (we started his
    antibiotics that day).  Aaron just started acting like there might be a
    problem on Thursday so I planned to call the doctor on Friday to have
    them check him out.  Well Thursday night he woke up around midnight,
    crying out (very unusual for him) so I went in to him and calmed him
    down.  While my husband held him I made a bottle for him (he hasn't
    been taken as much formula as he should which is why I decided to have
    him checked out).  He fell back to sleep around 1:00 and woke again
    around 3:30 or so.  We had given him tylenol at midnight to help him
    sleep and make the ears more comfortable.  Well at 3:30 I made another
    small bottle but he wouldn't let us lay him down.  We finally gave him
    another dose of tylenol a little before 5:00 am and he let us put him
    down to sleep around 5:20.  He woke up again at 6:30 with a temp of 
    102.8 (this is an hour and half after taking tylenol).  The poor little
    guy was son miserable.
    
    The doctor said he has a "raging" double ear infection.  Of course I
    feel like the worlds worst mom for not realizing until it got to that
    point...  Aaron just doesn't give the signs that they tell you to watch
    for.  He might tug his ear once or twice, but he does that when there's
    no infection.  He wasn't any fussier than usual, except for Thursday
    when he cried a little when I laid him down to change his diaper, so I
    told my daycare provider to keep an eye on that.  In talking to her on
    Thursday night I decided it would be best to call the pediatrician
    Friday, unfortunately it was too late...I'll just have to watch him
    more carefully for any sign of discomfort.  I think he has a high
    threshold for pain tolerance.
    
    Anyway, we're back on the amoxicillan for another 10 days.  I was
    hoping we wouldn't have another ear infection for a long time...
    
    sandy

    Well, Aaron has his 3rd ear infection in 2 months, the second one 
    in one month... My daycare provider called me on Thursday around 3pm
    telling me that he had a temp (rectal) of 103.0  He hasn't had any real
    symptoms of a cold except for a slightly runny nose and again he didn't
    show any of the clasic signs of an earinfection, but after the last one
    I didn't want to take any chances.  I immediately called his
    pediatrician and they were able to see him that afternoon.  The right
    ear is clear but the left ear has fluid built up so Aaron is back on
    antibiotics.
    
    I know what the problem is... pride.  Yup, that's it.  Up until October
    I thought to myself there's no way he would get an ear infection. No
    one smokes around him, he was breastfed until he was 8 months old (when
    he decided he wanted to wean), we use those health-flow bottles, the
    ones that are bent so he could sit more upright while taking his
    bottle, etc...  I don't mind being proven wrong, I just wish Aaron
    didn't have to suffer because of it!!!!  (this of course is said partly
    tongue in cheek).
    
    His 10 month check up is on Friday and I'm going to ask his
    pediatrician about putting him on a maintenance dosage of antibiotics. 
    I hate the idea of doing that but we don't seem to be completely
    getting rid of the "bugs". His ears are clear when they're checked, but
    another infection pops up a week or so later.
    
    He had an off weekend but I think it was because his father had to
    work, he went into work before Aaron got up and came back to work after
    he went to bed on Thursday, Friday and Saturday.  On Sunday he went to
    work before Aaron got up but was home by 6:00 pm.  He was such a happy
    little boy when Steve came in (and Steve was a very happy pappa when he
    saw his little boy!)
    
    sandy

    More about Aaron, it's not good news.  Over the weekend he was pretty
    fussy but I was hoping it was either because of a major interruption in
    his schedule or because both front teeth are growing in.  Monday he was
    unusually fussy at daycare plus he wasn't taking his formula from
    either a bottle or sippy cup, he was eating solids.  He took 8 oz in
    the morning and finally another 8 oz around 3:00.  We got him to take
    another 6 oz before bed, so I wasn't worried about him dehydrating. 
    
    Yesterday it took some doing but I convinced him to take 7 oz in the
    morning.  He slept late yesterday morning, 7:00 am when he's usually
    standing at attention in his crib by 6:00...  I called the doctor and
    set up an appointment (even though they didn't seem to think he really
    needed it) for that afternoon.  As it turned out at daycare Aaron slept
    from 10:00 am to 2:00 pm, that's a sure sign that he's feels pretty
    bad even though when he's awake he smiles and is usually happy, just
    cries more easily when he tumbles or gets frustrated with something.
    
    So, last Thursday his left ear was infected, everything else looked ok
    so he went on Amoxicillan again.  Yesterday (Tuesday) after being on
    the antibiotic for 5 days his left ear was still infected, his right
    ear was infected, his neck glands were swollen, and the outer part of
    his left was pinkish, indicating that the infection may be spreading to
    the outer ear...
    
    Aaron is now on an antibiotic called Cefzil (or something very close to
    that).  Is anyone out there familiar with this antibiotic.  I didn't
    ask the pharmacist about it last night, I just wanted to get it and 
    start my baby on it!
    
    sandy 

    My daughter was on cefzil because she was allergic to amoxicillan. 
    Other than hating the taste of all medicine, the cefzil was able to
    arrest the infection.  Sometimes, Doctors have to search for the right
    antibiotic to treat an infection.  I know that doesn't make Aaron feel
    any better now, but hopefully, it may comfort you to know that this is
    fairly common.  My daughter started feeling better within 24 hours or
    so.  I hope Aaron feels better soon.

    My own experience has taught me if a kid or adult doesnt start seeing
    some improvement within 48 hours that it is time to call back and see
    about switching anti-biotics, or at least a reassessment.  
    
    I had penicillin resistant pneumonia 5 years ago, not fun, as I was
    being treated for strep, but wasn't getting better.  After the
    arguements with the front office, I was able to get past them and talk
    to my Dr, who had me in almost immediately, the switch of anti from
    penicillin to suprax made a difference within 12 hours of starting it. 
    If I hadn't been feeling at least better by the next day, you better
    believe I was going to be raising the roof, until I got back in.  
    
    meg

    
    I hope your son feels better real soon. The antibiotic he's taking
    doesn't sound familiar to me but I know my kids went through at least
    4 different kinds since the beginning of summer. Right now Laura (11
    months) is fine but I just brought her brother (5 1/2) to the doctors
    today because he's been sick for the last 3 days. It might be just
    a flu but he's all stuffed up so I think it's a sinus infection too.
    The dr put him on amoxicillion so hopefully he'll get better before
    he gives it to his sister.
    
    I think the decision to go with the preventative dose was the right one
    for my daughter. She hasn't been sick since.(all of 2 months)
    
    Have they mentioned that for your situation?
    
                          Barbara
    

    
    I like cefzil for the kids .... it ALWAYS (at least ALMOST always (-;) has 
    worked for us, and if I remember right, it's one of the newer and more
    effective antibiotics.
    
    I'm convinced that Amoxycillan has something in it that Jonathan's
    allergic to, because when he goes on it for (insert-illness-other than
    ear-infection-here), he ends up with an ear infection.  If he has an
    ear infection, and they give him that, they may as well give him sugar
    water for all the good it does.
    
    Maybe it's the dyes?  Maybe just the medicine??  I have no idea, but it
    hardly ever works for him.  Or Jason.  Works GREAT for Chris.
    
    Hmmmmmm.

    Aaron has been on Cefzil for a week now (since last Tuesday night) and
    he is still digging into his ear (not tugging at it but digging into it
    like it itches inside).  He is also moaning in his sleep through the
    night (mostly in the early morning as he's waking up, but not yet
    conscious).  I'm concerned that the antibiotic isn't working.  Aaron
    isn't running a temperature or crying when he lays down or the usual
    symptoms, but he doesn't do that unless it's really bad (a "raging"
    infection).  I phoned the doctor's office and they told me to hold off
    bringing him in until Thursday but I feel like he's just not healing
    like he should....
    
    I took him in last Friday for his 10 month check (he's 22lbs 12oz, 31
    1/2 in.) and the fluid hadn't dried or drained yet, but he'd only been
    on the antibiotics for 3 days.  The doctor said that it wouldn't be a
    problem to him his Hepatitis B shot since that didn't really have any
    problems associated with it.  So...we finally agreed to it.  My husband
    stayed home with him and Aaron was fussy all afternoon and wouldn't lay
    down for a nap.  When I got home he was running a temp (about 100.6 or
    so) so we gave him some tylenol, fed him and put him to bed about 45
    mins early.  I checked him about an hour later and found that he had a
    temp. of 103.8!  Of course all I could think of was that the shot and
    the antibiotic were interacting or he was having a bad reaction, so
    first we woke him and gave him some tylenol, then I called the local
    hospital to speak to a nurse in pediatrics to discuss it (I should have
    asked for the nursery).  Well, being used to bigger kids her first
    reaction was get him to the hospital immediately!  So we spoke to for a
    few minutes longer (with me closer to tears each second) and she told
    me where to call in my practice for the urgent care nurse.  I spoke to
    the urgent care nurse who said what I expected (high fevers are a worry
    if there are other symptoms such as constant crying, lethergy, etc...) 
    She also looked in her PDR (Physicians desk reference) and the shot
    that Aaron had has a reaction of fever over 102.5 in 1% of children. 
    Anyway, we watched him all night and he was feeling better on Saturday
    (no fever, etc.) though fussy.  And Sunday he was much more himself
    except he was digging at his ear, which is where we are today.
    
    I love this time of the year and winter in general, but this one is
    starting to take it's toll...
    
    sandy

    
    My son has chronic ear infections.  I brought him back to dr today for the
    3rd follow-up ("knowing" the infection had not healed) and sure enough
    doctor said it looked horrible. He's now on Bactrum and this is the
    3rd. antibiotic for his right ear in about 7-8 weeks.  Once we finish
    the Bactrum, assuming this infection will have cleared, we will go
    back on the maintenance dose of Amoxicillin which is what we had to do
    last year.  It is so difficult because his symptoms are so subtle.
    When he first started this round I think we missed it for a week or two
    because he had so few symptoms and we wrote his behavior off to being
    2.5 years old stuff. The clincher finally was he got a slight fever but
    sometimes he doesn't get a fever at all. His last round of antibiotic 
    didn't work at all. Midway through the 10 days he actually started 
    complaining about the ear. I called the doctor and they convinced me to 
    give him motrin and decongestant.  Now it is clear the medicine wasn't 
    working and it would have been the right thing to do to change it. I 
    dropped him off at day care at noon and got a call at 3 that he woke up 
    from his nap with a fever of 103.2.  Doctor's office doesn't think it is a 
    reaction to Bactrum just the infection - hopefully this is correct but
    we'll have to watch. Here I thought I lucked out by not having him run a 
    fever at day care because they require the child to stay out for 24 hours 
    even if the fever goes down, he is fine, and on antibiotics.  The poor
    kid!
    
    Kathy
    
    

    The other night Alyssa (16 months old) felt *very* warm.  I couldn't 
    get the Thermoscan Ear Thermometer near her without her going 
    ballistic!  I gave her some Tylenol and a cool bath and when my 
    husband came home, together we were able to take her temperature.  
    It was close to 106!!!! 
    (The doctor said the Thermoscan Thermometers are VERY accurate).
    We called the doctor and was told to take Alyssa to the Emergency Room
    ASAP because they wanted to rule out pnenemonia.
    They did a thorough examination and found that one of her ears was
    alittle red.  They didn't think any other tests were necessary at that
    time so they started her on Amoxicillin and gave her some Motrin for
    the fever.  The doctor also said that there is a child's virus going
    around where the child can have a 105 temp for close to a week!!!
    Alyssa is doing better now, no fever and she slept well last night for
    the first night in a long time.
    Whew, it was frightening!
    
    Nancy 
    
    

>    the fever.  The doctor also said that there is a child's virus going
>    around where the child can have a 105 temp for close to a week!!!
>    Alyssa is doing better now, no fever and she slept well last night for
>    the first night in a long time.

This virus sounds like Roseola ... after typically 5 days of high fevers,
they suddenly disappear, and the child breaks out into a very bright red flat
rash!  Really scary fevers ... but generally harmless.

Stuart

>    (The doctor said the Thermoscan Thermometers are VERY accurate).

They're very accurate when used correctly.  Apparently most people don't.

    I was told that they are very accurate when used properly,
    EXCEPT in the case of ear infections, when they read too high.

    Re: Previous - when we got to the hospital, her temp was taken rectally
    and was in agreement with the ear  reading.
    
    nmp

Re: Thermoscans

We bought one, and have never been able to get it to read the same thing
(within one degree) three times in succession, on any member of the family.

						Brian

    Nancy,
    
    I can only imagine how worried you were about your daughter's
    temperature.  I've been considering buying a thermoscan and noticed
    that folks have different experiences with them.
    
    I hope your daughter is feeling better soon!
    

    We returned ours to the pharmacy without a problem because we could
    not get the same reading twice (1-3 degrees off!).  Our pediatric nurse
    said that they are not the same thermoscan that the Dr.s office gets.
    
    When we call about a sick child with a temp, the first thing they ask
    us is if we used a thermoscan.  If so, they want to be called back with
    a rectal temp.
    
    				Mary
    

    I find that I can use the Thermoscan fine on myself and on my 5 year
    old.  For the 18 month old, her ear canals are just too small.  For her
    I found a digital underarm thermometer that seems to be exceptionally
    acurate.
    
    Irene

    Interesting comments - when we first bought the Thermoscan, we would
    also take temp rectally for the little one and orally for us.  We
    found that they correlated perfectly with the Thermoscan.
    nmp
    
      
    

I will NEVER subject a child over a few months old to a rectal temperature
taking unless it is absoluetely unavoidable.  It is one of the most
uncomfortable degrading routine procedures, I can think of.

I have never cared whether the temperature was +/- a few degrees ... an
accurate temperature rarely matters, and when presented to a Doctor they
start getting fussy, I asked what does it actually matter ?  Hmmm true ...
what matters is repeatability ... and the band of temperature.

This was the guideline one Doctor gave us 

Under 100 ... mild
100 - 102 ... moderate
over 102  ... high

For a mild temperature, unless there are other symptoms ... just monitor ...
don't attempt to bring down with medication unless there are pains or
other discomfort.  No immediate need for a doctor in the absence of other
symptoms.

Moderate ... medicate with standard doses of acetaminophen ... monitor ...
Call doctor if symptoms persist more than 24 hours without other symptoms,
with other symptoms call doctor soon ... but not urgent.

High ... medicate ... use external cooling ... like baths ... monitor and
call doctor and if over about 103 ... urgently.

... add your own judgement too because you know your (your child's) body 
behaviour.

-------
These were a doctor's guidelines to us ... you and or your doctor may
disagree.

Stuart

>>I have never cared whether the temperature was +/- a few degrees ... an
>>accurate temperature rarely matters, and when presented to a Doctor they
>>start getting fussy, I asked what does it actually matter ?  Hmmm true ...
>>what matters is repeatability ... and the band of temperature.

One case where it matters is when you have a daycare/school rule that says the
child should stay out if the temperature is over 100 (or 99 or 101 or whatever
the rule might be for your provider).  "+/- a few degrees" is the difference
between no fever and fever, and between mild fever and high fever.

I agree that accuracy is less important than consistency; all the different
methods of measuring temperature give different results for the same
person/time, but they are all self-consistent.  Please note, though, that those
of us who have complained about our experiences with the Thermoscan are
complaining about consistency, not accuracy.

						Brian

    I just ended the week of fevers with my 6-year old.  It was not
    Roseola, just an odd virus.  I got a version of it myself.  I haven't
    had a fever in years - 103 is VERY uncomfortable!!!
    David's first spike was 103+, Tylenol kept him comfortable (brought it
    down 1-2 degrees).  It was 5-6 days before he was well enough for
    school again.  He also has a sinus infection to complicate matters, so
    he ended up at the doctor's office 3 times to be sure he didn't have a
    secondary infection working someplace.  
    Sarah   

.168:

> I have never cared whether the temperature was +/- a few degrees ... an
> accurate temperature rarely matters, and when presented to a Doctor they
> start getting fussy, I asked what does it actually matter ?  Hmmm true ...
> what matters is repeatability ... and the band of temperature.
>
> This was the guideline one Doctor gave us 
>
> Under 100 ... mild
> 100 - 102 ... moderate
> over 102  ... high

Also, note that most parents can manage to get a temperature reading to that
precision with a hand on the forehead.  The thermometer doesn't really add much
to the process.

	-Neil

Neil, that is SO true ...  my mother never had a thermometer in the house!
(So when we went to the doctor's, it always felt like were being attacked
when they thrust that cold thermometer in our mouth!)

Trouble today is that there are doctors out there who want numbers ...  One
doctor who was actually one of the best doctors we ever had was, unfortunately,
a temperature stickler ... he wanted mouth or rectal readings ...  SSTB (So
Sad Too Bad) was our response ... he got used to us in the end ... we'd
just quote him the number of degrees of fever ...

We could never get consistent oral readings ... and we wouldn't do rectal,
we always did axilliary (armpit) ... and were always consistent and repeatable.
For us, normal axilliary temp is 97.6  ... so if we measured 100, then the
"oral equivalent" was 101.2   

One interesting note ...  Normal body temperature in the UK is considered 98.4
Possibly a function of climate ?

Stuart

i love the thermoscan!  we used a rectal thermometer for the first three
months and then switched to the thermoscan.  while i also have found that
it does not give consistent readings, it has never been off by 1 degree or
more - usually just .5 or something like that.  our doctor told us to take
three readings from the same ear and use the average!  my son doesn't sit
still to have his diaper changed, never mind have a thermometer stuck up
his butt.

/kmu

    Aaron is now on his 3rd antibiotic since Nov. 28 or so.  This time it's
    Augmenton.  We took him to the doctor on Thursday.  It was a 5:30 pm    
    appointment, I got to see some really stupid drivers, especially the
    guy in the Jeep who was tailgating the woman in front of him, he wound 
    up having to hit his brakes fast and his Jeep did a 180, I was far     
    enough behind him that I didn't have any problems.  He just forgot that
    even though his vehicle had no problems moving through a big snow
    storm, he had to stop just like the rest of us!
    
    Anyway, Aaron's right ear is healing nicely but his left ear still has
    some infection (thought it is improving).  We want to make sure the
    infection is completely gone before we put him on the maintenance
    doseage.  Now he's getting diarrhea and a yeast infection.  So we're
    starting the BRAT diet and using Lotramin AF on his little behind twice
    a day.  He is feeling better, though.  I'll be so glad when this is
    over.
    
    sandy

    Augmentin helps where others don't but do load up on bananas and lots
    of yogurt to counter the yeast and diarrhea.
    
    best of luck
    

    My son didnt get yeast infections, but whenever he was prescribed
    amoxycillin, he'd get incredible rashes, his entire bottom blistered and
    bled.  He is my oldest and my pedi just said to air it out.  Me being a
    new mom, listened to the doctor (my son was 10 days old the first time).
    About 6 months later I switched pedi's and the new one gave me a
    perscription for a cream called Nystatin.  Within 1 hour of applying the
    cream, the rash was visibly better (of course once we finaly figured out
    it was the amoxycillin, they prescribed different medications).
    This is just an fyi for others who develop severe rashes.
    
    Also, my daughter had her first ear infection at 7 weeks.  She got them
    about once every other month until she was 9 months old.  Then she got
    one on 12/26 that didnt go away until 3/30.  Each time we'd go back to
    have the ears checked on the 10th day, the ears would be clear.  Then
    on the 11th day, we'd be back in the doctor's office and they would be
    infected again.  At the time, I was seeing a chiropractor and this came
    up in conversation.  She said to bring Meg in next time.  So I did and
    from then on she went 2-3 months between infections.  I know that
    chiropractors are not accepted by many people, but from then on, my
    first call was to the pedi and my second one was to the chiropractor. 
    She did not 'crack' my daughter.  She did more of a massage on her neck
    and shoulders.  Meg still almost purrs when you give her a back
    massage.  A lot of people were shocked that I took her and many thought
    I was wrong.  But it helped us and I would never replace my pedi with a
    chiropractor...just augment him a bit.
    
    Rhonda
    

    This is a long string so not sure if this has been mentioned or not
    already but....  We went through 4 ear infections in a row over the
    summer with Kyle and tried several different antibiotics.  We were
    going to do the maint. dose after the ears cleared because we knew the
    winter would be even worse then the summer.  As a last resort prior to
    starting the maint. dose, we forced Kyle into giving up his bottle. (Dr
    recommended that it *might* help.)   His ears cleared and he hasn't had
    an ear infection since.  Coincindence?   Maybe, maybe not.  Just a
    suggestion.
    
    And I'll second the Nystatin, I used it beginning with the first dose
    of antibiotics to keep him from getting the yeast infection.  I used
    just a little with the last diaper change of the night while he was on
    any anitbiotics.  (Of course, check with your own Dr first.)
    
    Jean
    

    
    Also read a brief snip-it in the newspaper that researchers had
    found a positive correlation between pacifier usage and ear
    infection frequency.   The sucking motion was believed to facilitate
    the build-up of fluid in the ear.
    
    I don't remember when or where I saw this article - sorry!
    
    cj/

>>    My son didnt get yeast infections, but whenever he was prescribed
>>    amoxycillin, he'd get incredible rashes, his entire bottom blistered and
>>    bled.  He is my oldest and my pedi just said to air it out.  Me being a

The pediatrician didn't suspect penicillin allergy?  You might want to check
into it.

						Brian

    Penicillin allergy wouldn't cause a rash on the bottom only.  It would
    cause a rash all over the face/body.   I speak from experience on this
    one.
    
    nancy

how can you tell if your child has a yeast infection?  after having his
third ear infection in 8 weeks, my son is now on a maintenance dosage
of amoxycillin.  he goes in on friday to have his ears rechecked.
because he has had a total of 16 ear infections so far, i have asked that
he be given a hearing test.

anyways, last nite i noticed while changing him that he had an area of
redness in the crack of his butt.  he wasn't complaining about it, even
after i used a wipe on it, but it did look sore and i put some desitin
on it.  could he have a yeast infection?  i did notice some pink on the
wipe after i used it on him??

/kmu

    I keep lotrimin in Aaron's changing box (where I keep his wipes, etc.)
    as soon as the redness shows up now I start with the lotrimin.  The
    first yeast infection that he had started out with a little redness,
    soon some bumps started coming up and he let me know it was
    uncomfortable.  The lotrimin af was a prescription only drug for things
    like athletesfoot and outer yeast infections, it's sort of the men's
    equivalent for gyna-lotrimin.  With Aaron's first yeast infection the
    doctor recommended we treat Aaron with a small amount twice a day.
    
    After that yeast infection we also stopped using commercial babywipes
    and started using handiwipes (and washing them of course to be reused). 
    Aaron's never had a diaper rash only the yeast infections caused by
    antibiotics.
    
    sandy

The rash on the bottom *is* a yeast infection.  Justin's was so bad that he
would get a rash that looked like pimples full of puss.  His bottom, including
the skin on the outside of his anus, would bleed something awful.  

Lotrimin worked for us, and sometimes Calendula (sp?) which is made of
marigolds and smells great (better than the smell of the flower!).  :-)         <<< Note 130.182 by APSMME::PENDAK "picture packin' momma" >>>

        Carol

Oh, I forgot to mention the most important thing!

Justin is on antibiotics *all* the time now, but never gets yeast infections
anymore!  That's because we give him acidophilus daily, stirred into his
"milk" (rice milk, soy milk).  A teaspoon a day, and he never gets the 
beginning of a problem.  :-)

There's more than one brand, but I've liked best the one with the yellow top
(great with names, aren't I)?  Health food stores carry these; I get mine
at Spice and Grain in Concord, MA.  There's different acidophilus for different
ages, so I use the one for ages 0-5 (or so).  However, I imagine that any
acidophilus would help some.  Store it in the refrigerator, as it's really
alive and this will keep the vast majority of them alive (yeast is alive, too,
and acidophilis eats yeast).  :-) 

     Carol

    Carol, are you talking about "Baby Life", otherwise known as baby bugs
    in our house, from last year when Atlehis digestion got so screwed up. 
    A thing to hate for me this week, someone inadvertantly let Atlehi have
    peppermint drops, 1 hour later and she urppled again.  
    
    Meg, trying to find a decent substitute for candycanes.
    
    

Shruthi had a case of what appeared to be an yeast infection about three weeks
ago, when she was on antibiotics.  MY husband said that the doc advised him to
spread Lotrimin cream ( an over the counter kind) three times a day to help
this.  Unfortunately, he never did find one that can be used for her - the brand
he found had a warning at the back , saying 'don't use for kids under 12'. 
Which brand do you use?  Or what is the exact name of this cream?  

Thanks.

    When my son (15 mos) has a diaper rash with yeast, his doctor said to
    use over the counter cream (Gyn-Lotriman) sp? that is used for women
    with yeast infections. When I found that the packaging carried a
    warning not to use on children under 12, I called his doctor back. He
    confirmed that I had the right medication and that it is ok to use. BUT
    PLEASE, confirm with your own doctor that you have the right
    medication. BTW, it worked liked a charm.
    
    LB

    
    We use Lotrimin AF. It's found in the section of the pharmacy with the
    foot fungus stuff. 
    
    Patty

Lotrimin etc ...

When anti-fungals became an over-the-counter medication, it was with the
stipulation that it was not for children under 12 ... The formulations had
not changed ... just the descriptions.  The purpose of the message is that
you should consult a Doctor ... particularly in the case of gyne-lotrimin ...
considering its intended use is gynelogical ...

The difference between the gynelogical anti-fungals and the "Athlete's Foot"
antifungals is only the carrier cream.  Since the gynelogical version is
essentially "for internal use", the cream must be carefully ph balanced
for that application and suitably formulated, such as with a glycerine base.
Creams for external application do not require the same ph balance care
and are usually petrolatum (mineral oils) based.  Also the purity of the
internal use creams must be to a far higher standard.

The medicinal ingredient of internal and external anti-fungals is the same
(but there are about 2 or 3 different anti-fungal medicinal ingredients ...
all effective both internally and externally)

So, what does this mean ?  An external use cream should be cheaper than an
internal cream (rarely seen in reality!)  But the bottom line is that an
gynelogical "internal use" cream can be used externally without problems,
and may be preferable on tender skin like a baby's rear end!  Just never
use an external cream internally!

Stuart

    re:.180
    
    Penicillin may not cause a bottom-only rash, but my son was on
    erythromycin once and he had a rash on his bottom that creeped
    up his back. The nurse that saw him called it a classic erythromicin
    reaction, for what that's worth...
    Sue
    

    The acydophylus (I realize I butchered spelling) is also found
    in some yogurts.  When Angeline was on one of her antibiotics,
    her pedi recommended giving her yogurt (Dannon has it in some of
    their flavors) to help prevent the yeast infections.
    
    Of course, now we know not to give Angeline yogurt!  ;->
    
    						cj *->

    My son periodically gets mild diaper rashes or yeast infections.  I
    regularly add baking soda to his bath water and feel this really helps
    his rashes.  He had one recently, however, that looked pretty sore and
    I believe was a result of the Bactrum he's been taking.  I added the
    baking soda to the bath and put the ozide type cream on his rectum and
    it cleared in a few days.
    
    For years I took acidophilus capsules as cure or prevention of yeast 
    infections (particularly when going on an antibiotic) along with tons
    of water. I used to be very susceptable to them. I have shared this info 
    with many many women over the years. Yogurt also has the cultures,
    particularly the Stonyfield Farms yogurt brand.
    
    Kathy
     

    
    Medicine World in Nashua (at least USED to!) carries Acidopholus
    powder, that you can use in place of yogurt.  The pharmacist is pretty
    helpful with all that stuff.
    
    Dare I mention that Jonathan seems to have outgrown his ever-present
    ear infections?!?  YIPPEE!!!
    

    I've decided to take Aaron back to the doctor's tomorrow, as much for
    my peace of mind as anything.  He's still poking at his left ear (he's
    been on the Augmentin since last Friday morning, on antibiotics since
    the end of November), he's also started poking at his right ear a
    little.  So I phoned the doctor today and told them I want to bring him
    in before the weekend to make sure the ears are getting better since
    the antibiotic will be done around Sunday.  I refuse to give the
    bacteria a chance to become even more antibiotic resistant if the
    infection is still present when he goes off of the augmentin.  
    
    sandy

    When I was young, I had terrible ear infections, year after year.  The
    choice of antibiotics back then wasn't what they are today, but nothing
    seemed to solve the problem.  Finally, they yanked out my tonsils (age
    5) and all the problems went away.  They found that there was something
    wierd about my ears and throat that when the tonsils got infected, my
    ears hurt (never got the sore throat).  I know that yanking tonsils was
    the thing to do back then, but it worked for me.  Since then, I have had 
    only a handfull of ear infections.  
    
    Good luck, I know how painful earaches are!
    

    It may also be congestion .... I've had one of the more common bugs
    that's making the rounds, and while my ears done HURT, per se, they're
    making me bananas.  The cold I have includes a cough and minor
    congestion, but it feels like my head and ears (inside) are "inflamed".
    
    There can be quite a lot of discomfort/pressure, from fluid alone. 
    Similar to having water stuck in your ear - you know how that can make
    you batty!! (well, me anyway (-;)
    
    Good luck at the Drs!  Definitely take him in, especially with them
    being closed for Christmas!
    
    Patty

Meg asked me what acidophilus I use for 3 year old Justin.  
It's "Primadophilus for Children" by Nature's Way.  5 oz (which is a jar about
2/3 the size of a coke can) costs me $18.95.  We use 1 tsp a day, so it
lasts a long time (I'd guess a month or two). 

  Carol

    
    	Nystatin cream did nothing for my son's rashes.  One of 
    	his pedi's recommended sticking with the Lotrimin (BTW, the generic
    	brand at our pharamacy has worked just as well as the Brand name),
    	but after applying, to coat it with petroleum jelly.  It's a little
    	messy, and you end up sort of mixing them together, but it helps
    	the lotrimin stay in contact with the skin longer than without it.
    
    	I have found that when we follow this course, we get significant
    	improvement after just one application.  
    
    	As for the yeast infection, the clearest indication has usually
    	been a bleeding rash.  However, my pediatrician's guide for parents
    	states that any rash that lasts longer than 72 hours is likely to
    	have become a yeast infection, as the yeasties enjoy that
    	environment.   So, for a typical rash, we treat with Desitin for
    	the first couple of days, then switch to Lotrimin on the third day.
    	If the rash worsens in the first two days, we switch to Lotrimin
    	right away.
    
    	Unfortunately, we have much, much experience in this area.
    
    	Karen
    

    Aaron's been on a maintenance antibiotic for the last 10 or so days, we
    took him yesterday for an ear check.  They are both completely clear! 
    No fluids or anything...  Now all we have to do is keep them that way. 
    We thought for sure the pedi was going to tell us it was back because
    Aaron's moaning through the night, including a little crying (it's
    amazing how fast I can wake up and get to his room at 2:30 am), he
    didn't wake up though, he was crying in his sleep.  A third tooth is
    breaking through on his bottom gum and one's trying to break through on
    the top, so I'm assuming that is what's bothering him.  That and a
    little stomach discomfort due to the antibiotic (he's a little gassy).
    
    He'll be on the antibiotic through the winter.  I'm really hoping he
    doesn't do what my sitter's little one did... Mandy was off of the
    maintenance antibiotic for 1 week and came down with a "raging" ear
    infection.
    
    sandy

I am coming into this discussion a little late, but have any of you 
considered putting tubes in the kids' ears.  Joel has them and they 
worked pretty well (not perfectly) for a while.  They are now blocked
and we are seeing just how much we miss them now.  (they went in last
April, so it's been almost a year.)

Lori

    
    We considered tubes for Jonathan when he was 1ish, because he also had
    a dramatic loss of hearing.  Scheduled the appt, and he was exposed to
    chicken pox at the daycare, and they wouldn't do the surgery till after
    he WASN'T exposed for at least 2 wks.  Well, this went 3?4?5? rounds,
    before he finally wasn't exposed ... by which point he was hearing
    okay.  A re-exam found him to be "clear", and it was summertime, so we
    decided to wait till winter to see what happened.  He had a few
    infections last winter, but NOTHING like the year before.  This winter
    I think he's had 1 - he's pretty much grown out of it.  Hmmm - that'd
    make him 3, so I must have something messed up here .... maybe it's
    just been a REAL long winter....
    
    Anyway, he outgrew the problem, as predicted, and I'm happy as heck we
    didn't have to deal with the surgery.  Putting Chris through surgery as
    a young'un was more than enough for me, for the rest of my life!!
    
    

    Aaron had another ear infection the end of last month.  He went back
    onto maintenance antibiotics and now he's running a fever again.   The
    only times he has highish temp (101.8 or more) is when he has a
    reaction to a shot or when he had an earinfection.  He hasn't had any
    shots lately.  Looks like we'll be making another visit to the
    pediatrician.  He hasn't had a cold or even a stuffy nose recently.
    
    I really do need the summer!

    Well, when I got home Thursday night and saw how my son was acting I
    told my husband that I didn't care what the nurse practitioner he spoke
    to on the phone said (regarding virus' going around), that Aaron has an
    earinfection.  I called our pediatrician's office and got an 8:30 appt. 
    Sure enough, both ears were infected.  They put him on Biaxin.
    
    Unfortunately Aaron started having diarrhea friday morning and it
    continued through Saturday.  Saturday night my husband became ill (a
    stomach virus) and went to bed early.  I checked on Aaron before I went
    to bed around 11:00 or so and got there just in time to find him
    throwing up.  Sunday we called our practices urgent care line and they
    told us to go on and take Aaron off of the Biaxin and see what
    happened.  Monday was the first time in several days Aaron woke up
    without having diarrhea in his diapers and his stools were becoming
    more normal.  However he just wanted to sit in our laps and sleep all
    morning (not even close to his normal behavior).  We took him to the
    doctor to have his ears checked and they were normal (after only 3 days
    or 6 doses of the antibiotic) so we're going to go back to the
    maintenance antibiotic this evening.  He threw up again yesterday, but
    I think it's because his father kept feeding him applesauce even though
    he'd had enough.
    
    Now we have to get Aaron to eat again.  He'll take formula but he won't
    eat anything.  And he was coughing this morning, so we'll be taking him
    in for another ear infection by the end of the week, I bet...
    
    I'm feeling like a terrible mother.  He keeps getting these darn ear
    infections, no matter what we try.  He's had 6 since the end of
    October. 
    
    sandy

    does Aaron drink milk-based formula?
    
    just wondering.
    
    

    Yes he does.  In fact tonight I'm going to talk to my husband about
    switching him to a soybased formula for a little while.  Aaron's almost
    13 months and we started to switch him to milk but when we went from
    1/4 milk to 1/2 milk he got diarrhea.
    
    I'm just so tired of him suffering with the ear infections, I want him
    to heal once and for all.
    
    sandy
    

    
    I asked because my cousin went thru this with her daughter a few years
    ago.  Ear infection after ear infection, finally had tubes, and then
    found out a couple YEARS later that she had a milk allergy that 
    triggered all the infections.  She is doing GREAT now that she 
    stays away from dairy products.  This is different than being
    lactose intolerant.  This was a real allergy that manifested itself
    in the form of ear infections and fluid build up.
    
    It's definitely worth looking into.  6 infections since October is 
    a lot and should signal that something is wrong.
    
    Best of luck!  Hope you find out why he is getting so many infections.
    It sounds very frustrating for you, and it doesn't sound normal to me.
    
    Julie

    
    oh ... and if you were getting ready to switch Aaron to milk, why
    not try Soy Milk (instead of Soy formula).  My son was drinking it
    for a while and really liked it.  He just had a slight lactose 
    intolerance when starting out on milk, but now drinks milk all the
    time without any problems.
    
    please let us know what the doctor says if you bring this up.
    If he/she doesn't think it's a problem, I'd still give Soy a shot
    (just my opinion).  It can't hurt, and at least you could rule out
    the milk allergy.
    
    

My wife, who's lactose intolerant, much prefers Rice Dream to soymilk.
We get the enriched type, which has calcium and vitamins added.  I'm
not sure how soymilk compares to milk nutritionally.

    Yes, my mother-in-law drinks either or (Rice or Soy).  She tries
    to stay away from dairy and she offers it to my son when she 
    thinks to bring some with her (she babysits him 2 days/wk).
    
    Sandy, I have to think there is something that is triggering these
    infections.  I looked back at some of your other notes which say
    that they are not related to any colds or congestion.  SOMETHING
    is causing them and I would think your doctor would want to help
    you find the root of the problem.
    
    

    Sandy:
    
    I second Julie's motion -- my best buddy's little boy, who is the same
    age as my older boy, both now 7, had infection after infection through
    infancy and toddler years, even into Kindergarten.  She finally got him
    allergy tested, and while his wasn't a milk allergy, he had various
    allergies, including ones to the *anti-biotics* they'd been giving him
    for years.  The more anti-b's they gave him, the more infections he
    got. 
    
    Also, my very little guy, Jake (5 mos.) is milk-intolerant, and we
    discovered it during his first couple of months in life because (a) he
    was colic-y; but more importantly, (b) he had rashes and diarrhea all
    the time; and (c) he started pulling on his ears at 3 weeks old.  We
    switched to Nutramigen formula (which is made from hydrolyzed milk
    protien, lactose-free, and actually worked better for him than soy).
    
    I guess what I'm saying is, if rashes, upset tummies and ear infections
    are frequent problems with your boy, it is worth pushing your pedi into
    chatting about milk allergies/intolerance, or other allergy
    possibilities, like the anti-b's themselves.  What anti-b are you using
    for maintenance?
    
    M.
    

    Thanks for the notes folks.  We are going to look into the possibility
    of milk alergies.  Aaron didn't have an earinfection until a week or so
    after he was completely weaned from breast feeding.  That is he was
    taking formula through the day while I worked and breast fed in the
    morning and evening so it wasn't like he hadn't had formula at all.
    We're thinking of going half and half on regular and soy formula until
    Aaron gets used to the taste of the soy.  Right now our reason for
    giving it to him that his stomach is still very sensitive right now and
    he is taking little to no solids.  We need the formula for the needed
    vitamins/minerals and fat.  On Saturday my husband came down with a
    stomach virus that had similar symptoms to what Aaron started
    exhibiting on Friday.  I believe that the antibiotic contributed to the
    stomach problems but I don't think it was the only cause.
    
    Aaron has been able to keep formula down so we'll give him as much as
    he wants.  This morning he also ate some of a bran muffin (we'll give
    him anything he wants), so far that and cheerios are the only thing
    he'll eat (we've tried potatos, rice, toast, applesauce, you name it,
    we've tried it).  The real test is if he keeps that down and wants more
    to eat later.
    
    Gerald, where does one purchase Rice Dream?  I've never heard of it.
    
    Thanks everyone for the notes.  Aaron is a little more irritable than
    usual and is sleeping more, but is also the little imp that we know and
    love much of the time (he tries to cuddle with the cat by sitting on
    her, after all that's how he cuddles with mom and dad!).  I would be
    really frantic if he stayed lethargic like he was Monday morning.  At
    least he's taking lots of fluid and his last few diapers haven't been
    totally watery stools.
    
    sandy
                          

Rice Dream is available pretty much wherever soy milk is sold.

    I know how you feel Sandy.  Brittany has had 5 infections since
    October.  I took her in for her 18mo check up on Friday and I knew it
    was #5 cause she was running a fever again.  Sure enough.  I feel
    awful.  I look around and ask " is it cause she hates wearing socks,
    or is her room too cold, or did I not bundle her up enough when we
    go out, or cause she's at daycare....""  She's on clarithromycin (sp?)
    for 10 days and then on another medicaton for 8 weeks.  It seems
    she been on medication weekly all winter!  She's so doped up I hate
    it!  I'm afraid of what all these medications are doing to her!
    
    Her pedi wants to go with the 8 weeks to cover her until winter is
    over and then talk about tubes.  Then she asks the same questions:
    Is there smoking in the house- no
    Is there furry animals - no
    Does she take a bottle to bed - no
    Does she drink her bottle lying down - no
    Does she eat enough during the day - yes
    
    So she asked to take her off the bottle. So we went cold turkey on
    Friday. OH what a mess! I'm glad she didn't say the pacifier. That
    would of been murder! I know it will have to go some day, but I
    think it's more of a pacifier for me (sanity)!
    
    Rose

    After about 1 1/2 weeks of being sick Aaron is finally on the road to
    recovery.  On Thursday Feb. 15 we took him in to have his ears checked,
    it was an ear infection.  They put him on Biaxin.  Friday he developed
    diarhea, same on Saturday only he threw up Sat. night, Sunday we took
    him off of biaxin with the same symptons, Monday we took him to the
    pedi, the ear infection was clear and the pedi said that maybe Aaron
    really didn't have one to begin with, Tuesday still diarhea and
    throwing up with cold symptoms thrown in, Weds the same, Thursday we
    took him in to have him checked for dehydration and to have the ears
    checked.  Friday his appetite started coming back, the diarhea slowed,
    he still threw up.  Saturday he was miserable and kept saying doc-tor
    through the day, finally I decided I didn't care if the doctor's
    thought I was a hypocondriac (sorry about the spelling) and took Aaron
    in around 7:20 pm.  Sure enough he has another ear infection, and the
    beauty of it is it was the same doctor we saw on Monday who made me
    feel like I was overreacting to Aaron's symptoms.
    
    Anyway, he put Aaron on an antibiotic called Zithromax.  Aaron has to
    take it on an empty stomach, 3 hours after eating, 1 hour before, once
    a day, so he's getting it at midnight!  We gave him 1 tsp the first
    night and 1/2 tsp for 4 more nights, it's very slowly absorbed into the
    system is supposed to stay in the system 10 days.  Aaron started
    showing improvement on Sunday.  His appetite is back and hopefully
    he'll replace the pound or more that he lost while he was sick!  It's
    frightening to see a child with an excellent appetite only wanting to
    take formula, water, and eat a few cheerios and a little bran muffin. 
    He would pass up all of his favorites.
    
    I'm just hoping this is the last one this season (I know it's not
    likely).  We are seriously considering tubes for his ears.  As far as
    the stomach problems go, I'm pretty sure that was a stomach virus, but
    I think it was worse because of the biaxin Aaron was taking.
    
    sandy

    
    THERE'S PROOF!!
    
    I just read a little blurb in a "Healthy Kids" magazine (the kind the
    pedi gives out for free) about ear infections.  
    
    When Jonathan was going through all of this, I had a hard time
    convincing anyone that his infections all seemed to be linked to eating
    a lot of dairy and/or tomatoes.
    
    According to this article (very very short - sorry!), there's some new
    studies being done that are conclusively linking allergies to ear
    infections.  Eliminating the allergic product, such as milk (HEY!),
    made a marked improvement in the child with recurrent infections.
    
    Check it out ...!!
    
    

    I was just talking to a friend here at work. Her and her daughter
    have both had chronic illnesses for many years, her daughter has
    had her tonsils and adnoids removed (and she may have had tubes too...
    but I'm not sure about this one).  Anyway, a recent trip to a new
    doctor (and allergist) has them considering that they may both
    have a milk allergy.  He sees this a lot I guess, and none of 
    her other doctors had ever suggested it.  She did say she knew
    she was allergic to milk as a child, but thought she had outgrown
    it.  
    
    In any case, do please look into this.  Your poor little Aaron sounds
    like he's suffering from all these infections, and I'm sure you'd
    really rather not have him on meds all the time.  If nothing else,
    please look into the possibility of allergies BEFORE going with
    the tubes.
    
    I don't know you, or your son, but I just have this weird feeling
    that some type of allergy is triggering this.  This sounds like 
    way too many ear infections to be considered "normal".  My son, now
    almost 3, has only had 2 or 3 infections since he was born, and it
    was only when he was congested from a cold.
    
    Doctors are becoming more aware of this.  You might ask your pedi
    to refer Aaron to an allergist to have it checked.
    
    

The logic to this is actually very obvious ...

If the allergy produces inflamed sinuses then the ear canals will not
drain properly, causing infections.

This is really nothing new ... the hitch is you take an ear infection (or
sinus infection) to the doctor and his focus is that rather than what
might be actually producing the infection.

Stuart

    yup... most doctors just focus on the symptoms instead of the
    underlying causes.  It just baffles me that doctors can see a
    person come in with the same problem over and over and over,
    and not want to try and find the root cause !  I think we as
    parents have to be very proactive in pushing physicians to 
    look deeper rather than just constantly treating the symptoms
    time and time again.
    
    

    I asked the pedi about milk alergies last time, he assumed I was
    talking about the diarhea rather than the ear infections because he
    focused on lactose and recommened either lactose drops or the product
    Lactaid instead of regular milk.  Am I correct to assume this isn't
    what causes an alergic reaction that would cause the sinus' to become
    inflamed?
    
    sandy

    Yes, Sandy, you're correct.  The milk-allergy, is to the milk PROTEIN
    itself, which has nothing to do with the lactose at all.
    
    I know that I asked many many times about Jonathan's ears and
    allergies, and was told over and over, that it isn't normally
    considered a problem until the child's much older.  I said "Phooey!"
    every time he has a "lot" of milk (~4 oz, 3 days in a row) or a "lot"
    of tomatoes (spag sauce 3 times within a week), he gets an ear
    infection.  PLUS, the tomato sauce on his skin caused some terrible
    blotching (this was my first clue).
    
    I finally found a pedi (Suzanne Powell at Mat Thorn) who said "Well,
    sure, it's possible.  Not common though", and an ENT who wasn't willing
    to rule out ANYTHING, and said pretty much "If you think it'll help,
    stick with it".  He did a lot of tubes, but you could tell he'd rather
    NOT do them.
    
    So, maybe try a soy formula, or mess around with his diet some.  I
    *REALLY* can't believe that when we were kids, we all had ear
    infections - something's changing in the American diet/household (all
    those chemicals!) that cause our children many more "annoying"
    illnesses.  Not so many severe ones, but a lot more little ones.
    
    There seems a *GREAT* resistance in the medical profession to consider
    an allergy to milk-proteins.  Can't explain why, only that it exists.
    
    Good Luck!
    Patty

>
>    I asked the pedi about milk alergies last time, he assumed I was
>    talking about the diarhea rather than the ear infections because he
>    focused on lactose and recommened either lactose drops or the product
>    Lactaid instead of regular milk.  Am I correct to assume this isn't
>    what causes an alergic reaction that would cause the sinus' to become
>    inflamed?
>    

Lactase drops or Lactaid or whatever equivalents are designed to overcome
lactose intolerance.  This is not an allergy ... some people's bodies
just do not produce enough lactase to break down lactose in milk products.
The result is that the lactose is not digested and will cause indigestion
or diahorrea or other gi complaints.  These gi discomforts / pains are
not caused by an allergic reaction.

It is possible to cause an allergic reaction though to milk products ...
some people's sinuses do swell and produce excess phlegm (usually flows
down the back of the throat), again possibly causing gi upset (confusing
isn't it!).  The way to tell the difference is that for this allergic
reaction, the stools will be mucousy, whereas for intolerance they won't.

Remember too that even amongst people allergic to things, the allergy may
not show as inflamation like this.  (There are only a few things I'm allergic
too ... but for me, the usual reaction is hives on my feet ... even for an
ingested, or upper body contact allergy!)

Stuart

    And if it IS indeed a milk (protein) allergy, you need to avoid
    not only milk itself, but anything that contains milk proteins 
    (which are found in LOTS of food products).  
    
    

    Milk, mites/molds and wheat are the three most common allergy sets
    today.  When my Joe went through a round of about 5 ear infection in
    15-16 months, my GP put him on maintenance anti-b's and said that his
    next step would be allergy testing if the maint. didn't work. 
    Thankfully, between the maint. and taking him out of pre-school for a
    year (a luxury only a woman with a retired, live-in elder parent can
    afford!), we licked the ears, and Joe hasn't had an ear infection in
    about three years.  
    
    FYI, my elder brother had persistent ear infections in his first two
    years, a then-called by-product of teething.  Basically, the theory was
    that the teething inflammation was spreading to his sinuses, which
    pressured his ears, which caused infections.  It seems logical, but who
    knows?
    
    M.
    

>>    Milk, mites/molds and wheat are the three most common allergy sets
>>    today.  

While milk IS an allergen, it is not as common as you might be lead to believe.
Most cases of so-called milk allergy are actually lactose intolerance, often
mistakenly reported as an allergic reaction.  Many people actually have
intolerances to assorted foodstuffs that are mistakenly called allergies.

Allergies to wheat are usually allergies to gluten found in wheat, oats and
most grains.

A tendency to allergies is passed between generations.

A common trigger to a person developing allergies where they haven't before is 
formaldehyde, often given off as a product of the breakdown of latex.

Since the late 50s/early 60s, the use of latex has become very widespread and
little control on the gassing off of formaldehyde was imposed on latex quality
standards.  Latex is used in carpets, in fabric size, in various foams, in
paints, in glues used in plywood, chipboard and other construction materials and
in tires.  Since the 50s, we have been exposed to significant amounts of
formaldehyde.  In those buildings reported with sick building syndrome, the
common thing usually found is a significantly elevated level of formaldehyde.


I think the major culprit in the eqation is actually known ... and amount of
formaldehyde from the gassing off of latex is now supposed to be controlled at
significantly reduced levels, but it is still a good idea to reduce exposure
where possible to latex.  Few studies have actually come out and told us out-
right that latex is responsible ... another one of those tyhings no-one wants
to stick their neck out and say because it is in such widespread use.


Stuart

    re .215
    
    The nutritionist I talked to 20 years ago has finally been vindicated? 
    All right!
    
    I had a nutritionist suggest to me that taking all dairy out of
    Lolita's diet after a year of recurrent ear infections might clear
    things up.  I did do it, and had the wrath of several people and Dr's
    upon me, but the infections stopped cold, unless she was in a situation
    where people didn't know her and well-meaningly "encouraged" her to
    drink milk.  In the case of a aacation she was on with my parents a
    well meaning person at the Vacation Bible School she attended refused
    to give her water or juice unless she drank her milk, my mom found out
    at that time I wasn't into a "fad" treatment for her ears and sinuses.
    
    meg

    When our daughter was 6 months old (January), she got her 1st ear 
    infection.  It cleared up after Ceclor treatment.  She got another ear
    infection in February that has lasted 3 weeks and we are now on a 3rd 
    antibiotic, Augmentin.
    
    I have heard the allergy theory but if her sinuses and nose clear up
    between ear infections and she has a fairly consistent daily diet - mom's 
    milk, 14 oz formula, 3 oz rice cereal, and a baby vegetable (beans, squash,
    peas), would it make sense that an allergy would come and go ?
    
    If we just substitute a soy based formula, might that be enough to
    rule in/out a milk allergy ?

    When they've done studies on ear infections, the results have indicated
    that children who are breastfed are less likely to get ear infections.
    re .226 Unless your wife has a heavy dairy diet, I can't really see why
    you'd want to switch to a soy formula.
    

    We've tried giving Aaron soy formula, he won't have anything to do with
    it.  I think it may be the formula at night.  When Aaron was 6 - 8
    months he was getting formula at daycare and nursing in the morning and
    evening.  He had his first ear infection within 1 week after weaning
    from the breast.  I wonder if the bottle before bed that's causing most
    of the problems.  At night he's laying down and the ear infections seem
    to be worse on the side that he sleeps on most of the time.  The crib
    is elevated where his head lays (as best as you can with an active 1   
    year old!), but he may be producing to much mucus through the night
    for his system to deal with because of that evening bottle.
    
    Aaron really wants that evening bottle, what can we give him instead?  
    He refused soy formula (even a mixture of the two won't be taken).  I'll
    try to find the Rice Dream that was mentioned in this note and see if  
    he'll take it instead.  I want something that has some nutrional value.
    
    sandy   

    The other factors I have read which can contribute to the likelihood of
    ear infections:  drinking bottles while laying down; and that boys are
    more likely than girls to get ear infections [they don't know why, but
    statistically it is proven true]..
    
    I also observed in my own children when I have also heard from other
    parents: that teething increased the likelihood of ear infections. Each
    time my eldest son was getting ready to "hatch" a new tooth, he'd get
    an ear infection. Once all his teeth were in, no more ear infections.
    
    I nursed my second son longer than my first, and there were no smokers
    in the house - he had fewer ear infections than my elder son [they've
    found a noticeable increase in the likelihood of ear infections when
    someone in the house smokes].
    
    regards
    

>    peas), would it make sense that an allergy would come and go ?

Remember, what happens is that fluids build up in the sinuses because they
aren't draining properly.  Now, at some time, the sinus soup becomes infected
withsome bacteria ... how when and why depends on many things.  So it's not
the allergy that comes and goes.  Remember that we excrete fluids normally
into the sinus cavities ...  to prevent them from drying and becoming inflamed.
Now, if that is not draining properly, because of the bacteria in the air we
breathe, eventually, some will get into the sinus cavities, and they'll become 
infected.  If the sinuses are not draining properly, infections are a matter
of when, not if.

Remember there are no white blood cells and lymph to help eliminate infection
in the sinus cavities

Stuart

    Breast milk IS NOT cows milk, and not technically dairy the way cows
    milk and bovine-based fromula are.  The protien, fat, sugar, etc make
    up is totally different, as it is developed by thousands of years of
    evolution to be the perfect food for infants.  If you suspect
    allergies, a nursing mother can alter her diet around, again there are
    PLENTY of calcum alternatives besides cows milk if that is a concern. 
    Green leafy veggies are an excellent source as are sardines, canned
    salmon, tums............
    
    If you have a child who is more prone to ear and sinus infections,
    nursing can save you a fair number of trips to the Dr, particularly if
    the child is in a daycare situation with multiple other crawling or
    walking petri dishes.
    
    meg
    meg

    
    Well, for Jonathan, it was more of a "sensitivity" than an allergy.  He
    could have anything, in limited quantity.  He could drink a glass of
    milk, once, and be fine.  But two or three within a few days of each
    other, and guaranteed that a couple days later, we were on our way to
    the pedi.
    
    As Stuart points out, there's always some amount of fluid in the
    general area.  "Too much" fluid (potentially as a result of some
    allergy and/or inflammation that prevents normal draining), is the
    perfect breeding ground for bacteria.
    
    Jonathan's nose didn't seem at all related to his ear infections.  Some
    times he appeared otherwise COMPLETELY healthy.
    
    To this day, if he drinks a LOT of milk (more than ~8 oz in one day),
    his ears seem to start building up fluid, and it seems to REALLY bother
    him (pressure, I suppose).  
    
    As for the milk, the ENT and Pedi that we saw were pretty clear that
    there's two totally different types of "allergy" to milk.  The most
    common, being the lactose-intolerance, and the lesser common, and much
    less obvious, being to the milk protein itself.  The protein-allergy
    tends to show in the mucous and membranes.  The lactose-intolerance (as
    Stuart pointed out), in the GI tract.
    
    But it could be anything, so we don't have to JUST pick on milk.  Maybe
    the baby's allergic to peanuts, and Mom is eating lots of nuts ??  The
    only advantage to switching to formula would be that you would be
    certain that MOM isn't introducing new "possible allergens".
    
    For the question on the soy formula - try a different company!! 
    They're all **VERY** different.  I know I had to buy some soy at 7-11
    one time, not our normal brand (I don't remember the brand - it had
    rabbits on the can), and the stuff was REALLY RUDE compared to what he
    normally drank.  Isomil seemed to be the most palatable (though it's
    all disgusting (-;).  
    
    Also keep in mind that if you're using a low-iron formula now, they
    don't MAKE a low-iron SOY formula, so you'll be adding iron to your
    baby's diet, which could potentially introduce a whole new set of
    gastro problems.... in which case, you may be able to get away with 1/2
    and 1/2 (soy and regular low-iron).
    
    They don't make it easy!  (-:
    

    RE: Previous, I'd like to correct some information in the previous
    note.    The information I am providing is based on information from
    the Food Allergy Network, a nation-wide group of allergy specialists
    that publish material to educate people about food allergies and
    Dr. Alan Harris, the leading Pediatric Allergist in central
    Massachusetts.
    
    An allergic reaction is caused by consumption of an allergen and is a
    method by which the human body deals with something it recognizes as an
    antibody.  In the case of food allergies, the body can recognize the
    following as an allergen; milk, eggs, fish, shellfish, soy, wheat,
    peanuts and nuts.  In all cases it is the protein structure of these
    foods that is the known allergen.  
    When an allergic reaction takes place, the IgE (blood antibodies)
    circulate in the blood and enter body tissues and cause an allergic
    reaction.  TRUE ALLERGIC SYMPTOMS INCLUDE REACTIONS OF THE SKIN,
    RESPIRATORY AND GASTROINTESTINAL TRACK.  (Correction to information 
    posted in previous note!)
    Most common reactions are swelling of the lips, mouth, throat,then
    nausea, cramping and dirrhea as well.  My daughter has a life-threating
    allergy to milk so I take these things very seriously!!
    Some allergic reactions are outgrown such as milk and soy.  Others last
    a lifetime.
    Ear infections that occur when a know food is consumed (usually dairy)
    do not indicate a true food allergy, however they may indicate a
    sensitivity to a food that will cause increased mucus production in the
    system.  If the child is allergy tested for dairy, the test will be
    negative, becuase there is not a true allergy but rather a sensitivity.
    To verify that there is a sensitivity, remove all suspect foods from
    the patient's diet for two weeks and observe whether or not the 
    symptoms occur.  If the symptoms are absent when the food is absent, 
    then the food should be removed from the child's diet for several 
    months and then introduced at a later date.
    
    Lactose intolerance is not an allergy.  It is caused by the intestines
    inability to break down the carbohydrate lactose.
    
    BTW - there are many alternatives to milk for calcium - calcium
    fortified orange juice is one alternative.  Green leafy vegetables have
    some calcium as well.  As my pediatrician said to me the other
    day..."After the age of one, milk is just a beverage, and the nutrition
    can be found elsewhere if milk must be avoided.".
    
    I hope this information is helpful.
    
    Nancy
         

    Just one more comment, I agree that the medical community downplays the
    milk allergy in infants.  Part of the reason is that the allergy is
    usually outgrown by the age of one so it doesn't make sense to verify
    the allergy because the allergy tests are so painful.  While a positive
    result of the scratch test is 100% accurate, if the test result is
    negative, the child could still have an allergy (the negative reading
    isn't 100% accurate).  So usually the medical advice is to stop dairy
    products if there is a reasonable suspicion and wait and see.
    In my daughter's case, since she could die from a reaction, the testing
    was necessary.
    
    BTW - with a true cow's milk protein allergy, the child shouldn't
    consume store bought breads, crackers, soups, frozen foods, goods from a
    bakery and most packaged foods because they contain whey or casein, the
    two dominant cow's milk proteins.
    
    Nancy

    Sandy:
    
    I have had to use both soy and Nutramigen formula with Jake at
    different times - he hated both of them, they taste awful.  Try adding
    a small amount of corn syrup to the soy formula.  Perhaps that will
    make it a little more palatable.  It isn't a great habit to get into,
    but it does work, and we mothers have been known to mix a little
    applesauce into that strained chicken or beef to make it taste like
    something better than cardboard!
    
    M.
    

    
    I heard on the radio Friday that the vaccine for childhood ear
    infection is in clinical trial, the adult version is already
    approved. Anyone interested should talk to their pediatrician
    for possibilities.
    
    
    Eva

    
    	My son Andrew had seven months of chronic ear infections last
    	year.  At that time, he was on milk-based formula.  Around
    	his first birthday, I tried to give him whole milk, and he
    	had diarrhea for the record books.  I thought it might have
    	been a virus, so after about a week, I tried the milk again.
    	Same thing.
    
    	I tried Lactaid, and it produced the same symptoms, ruling out
    	lactose intolerance.  
    
    	Andrew's been off of milk for nearly a year, and had only had
    	two ear infections since then.  I believe he is sensitive to
    	milk protein, not allergic, as he tolerates yogurt and cheese
    	well.  Lately, he has asked for milk on his cereal (copying sister
    	Emily).  I've given him about two ounces on a couple of different
    	days, and have not noticed a reaction.  He may be outgrowing it,
    	or he may be able to tolerate the small amount.  
    
    	In the past year, he's gained nearly 10 pounds.  Between 6 and
    	12 months, he only gained 3.  I am convinced that the combination
    	of the antibiotics and the gastro-intestinal distress of the
    	formula contributed to a slower growth rate during that time.  
    	I just wish that I had gone with my instincts and switched him
    	to soy formula.
    
    	We don't bother with soy milk or rice milk at this point.  He
    	gets calcium fortified OJ, cheese and yogurt, and seems to be
    	doing just fine.
    
    

    We took Aaron in for his follow up ear check from the last ear
    infection and the ears are clear.  We have decided not to put him back
    on a maintenance antibiotic since he's had 3 infections while on one. 
    If he has another one this month we're going to make an appointment
    with an ENT specialist to discuss tubes for his ears.  I can't keep
    putting him through this if the tubes can help.
    
    He's still taking formula, but he's not getting any after 5:00 pm.  Now
    that his stomach problem is over we are going to try giving him milk
    again (with the same schedule, none after 5:00 pm).  While we don't
    beleive he's alergic to milk, we think he's midly sensitive to it.  His
    body produces stuff that just doesn't drain at night (when he's had his
    evening bottle).
    
    I don't want to have tubes put in, but I don't want him to have to
    suffer like he has and to be on antibiotics for months at a time.
    
    sandy

    Sandy,
    
    Just curious why you want to even bother with the milk??  Will he eat
    "supper"?  Maybe a bottle of calcium-enriched OJ later in the evening
    will help sate his thirst, as well as clear his passages a little.
    
    Just a thought!
    

    Unfortunately the only things Aaron will drink right now is formula,
    milk, or water.  He has never liked juices.  He only wants water when
    he eats a meal.  Plus I want to make sure he gets enough fat in his
    diet along with the necessary vitamins and minerals.
    
    sandy

    
    	I had the same reaction as Patty.  When my son turned
    	one, his doctor had no objection to fully removing milk
    	from his diet.  I only wish I'd done it sooner. 
    
    	Fat can be obtained through lots of sources, as can the vitamins
    	and minerals in milk.
    
    	Just one opinion,
    	Karen
    

    Aaron is feeling much better these days.  He's eating like a little
    pig and has gained back all of the weight he lost when he had the
    stomach virus and ear infection last month (about 1 1/2 pounds!).  I'm
    starting to feel better.  He stopped taking the last round of
    antibiotics on Feb 28 and so far he hasn't had a reccurance.  I know it
    sounds like I'm celebrating to soon but he got 3 or 4 ear infections
    within 2 weeks of finishing a round of antibiotic.
    
    We give him a bottle of formula in the morning after his breakfast, and
    he gets 2 six oz bottles at daycare.  He doesn't seem to miss his
    evening bottle at all.  We also chose not to resume the maintenance
    antibiotic since he got 3 ear infections while on it.
    
    We're keeping our fingers crossed...
    
    sandy

    Well, Aaron has another ear infection...sigh.
    
    And I think I know the culprit.  Last week we tried giving him milk
    again.  Just an ounce in each bottle.  We started on Sunday.  Wednesday
    night he cried almost all night.  He woke up at 8:30 pm, went back to 
    sleep, at 11:00 pm he woke up crying so hard, it took me almost an hour
    to get him to calm down enough to take some tylenol.  At first we
    thought it was gas (I'm sure he was having gas pains because of the
    milk in addition to the ear infection).  He wouldn't let Steve hold or
    walk him, he'd start crying harder.  Finally around 1:30 he fell asleep
    against my chest and I laid down with him on my chest (he's around 26
    1/2 or 27 pounds now!).  I let him sleep like that for about a half
    hour and then tried laying him between Steve and I.  Big mistake, he
    woke up and started crying for another hour and half.  He fell asleep
    for about an hour around 3:30, but woke up crying again.  He finally
    fell asleep again around 7:00 or so and I was able to lay him on the
    bed so I could get dressed, call into work and call the doctor's office
    as soon as they opened.
    
    I took him in for an 8:40 appointment, of course we were right, he had
    a nasty infection (the worst so far).  The doctor put him on
    Zythromycin (I think is the name) and he got the first dose at 12:00 pm
    Thursday.  This is the antibiotic that you give a tsp on the first day
    and half a tsp the next 4 days and it stays in the system a total of 10
    days.  Aaron was noticably feeling better by Friday morning (he only
    woke up 2 times Thursday night and both times were about when he was
    due for another dose of Motrin).  On Sunday (yesterday) I was watching
    him and it obvious his left ear was really bothering him.  I told Steve
    I wanted to bring him in to the doctor today.  Well when Aaron got up
    from his morning nap he was in a much better mood.  That's when we
    noticed the ear had been draining (perforated eardrum, the infection
    and fluid caused a small hole in the eardrum so it could drain).
    We took him in today and the infection is getting better but isn't gone
    yet.  Hopefully the antibiotic will take care of it without having to
    go to another more powerful one.
    
    The moral of the story...  Milk isn't always good for you.  We won't be
    trying it again anytime soon.
    
    sandy                        

    
    My daughter Bridget, just got her first ear infection at 7 months.
    She is on amoxicyllin.  She was diagnosed Thursday.  I had her in the
    office the previous Monday and they told me just a cold, ears are fine.
    Turns out they weren't fine because we were up ALL night Wednesday.
    On Friday she seemed to be feeling a little better, only up once 
    Friday night.  Then on Saturday, she was cranky and whiny again.
    Saturday night up 6 times.  Sunday, called the Dr., he saw her and
    said the ears looked better.  I worked Sunday but my hubby said she
    was in a pretty good mood Sunday.   On Saturday, I was mixing the
    medi with her fruit and microwaving it to warm it.  I stopped doing 
    this on Sunday.  I asked the Dr. if zapping it could reduce the 
    potency, he said he wasnt' sure but that he was going to call the
    company and ask them.  I asked the pharmacist and he said I shouldn't
    zap it but that he wasnt sure if it affected the potency.  Dr. said
    to continue with amoxicyllin because the ears appear to be healing.
    My question is how long does it take for her to feel better?  Sunday
    night she woke 3 times in the night.  (before this she was sleeping 
    thru the night).  Last night, she only woke once.  Yesterday morning
    she was in a good mood but then she was cranky again yesterday 
    afternoon and evening.  She is still not herself.  She was such
    a happy baby before she got sick, hardly ever cried or whined.
    Now she cries and whines all the time.  Should she be alot better
    since she started the medi on Thursday , or does it take time for
    them to be themselves again?  She has no teeth yet and we think she
    might be teething, but she's my first and I have nothing to compare to.
    
    Sandy, I really feel for you.  I'm having a hard time dealing with this
    one infection, I cant imagine how drained you must be from all of this.
    Not to mention how your poor little boy is feeling all the time.  How
    is he doing?  How old is he now and how old was he when they started?
    I hope you're all doing better.
    
    Kathy
    
    

    Funny you should ask Kathy!  I'm at home today with Aaron because he
    has another ear infection (insert heavy very unhappy sigh).  He has a
    cold and when he gets a cold he gets an ear infection (when he doesn't
    have a cold he gets an ear infection).  His 15 month checkup was
    scheduled today, with shots.  Instead it's going to be an ear check
    with NO shots!  We're seriously considering having eartubes put in.

>  My question is how long does it take for her to feel better?

My 10 m.o. Sarah  suffered her first ear infection a couple weeks 
ago. (My wife and I suffered, too!). It was complicated by the fact
that she had a cold the same time, but by the third night, she was 
sleeping much better. YMMV.

Tom

    Aaron's taking another nap (well, he's in his crib talking to his
    stuffed animals).  Anyway he usually starts responding immediately to
    antibiotics, he only wakes up once or twice the second night and no
    more than once (if at all) on the third night.
    
    With his first ear infection amoxicyllan cleared it up, the second one
    (about 3 weeks later) we tried amoxicillan and it didn't work, we had
    to have him put on another kind.
    
    Aaron's ear infections started a week or so after he stopped breast
    feeding at night, he was about 8 months old.  He would have a bottle of
    formula instead and I think he is sensitive to it.  I don't think it
    bothers him as much through the day because he's up, at night though he
    is producing mucous that isn't draining correctly.  We stopped giving
    him an evening bottle at around 13 months and he went a month between
    ear infections.  This one is caused by a cold, though.  He can't get a
    cold without getting an ear infection.
    
    sandy

    Alyssa has an ear infection.  She was on Amoxcillin for almost a week.  
    After 2 days, I called the doctor and said the Amoxcillin wasn't working. 
    She couldn't sleep at night.  They said give it 5 days.  The  fourth
    day she felt better but then she was awake the fifth night.  We took
    her back to the doctor - then she was put on Bactrum.  That didn't
    work.  She was fine by day but couldn't sleep at night.  Now she's on
    Ceflecor.  I'm not sure how effective that is.  The doctor had wanted
    to put her on something new (begins with the letter V - I'd never heard
    of it - but decided on the Ceflecor because we had good luck with it
    before.)
    Last night she slept better but still woke up a couple of times.  I'll
    give it another night and see what happens.
    She's 21 months old, still breastfed so I attribute it to the recent
    move to a group daycare setting.  
    At one point I even took her for a ride in the car at 3:00am (she
    ALWAYS falls asleep in the car) but she still couldn't sleep!!
    I hope this doesn't become a trend!
    
    Nancy

    
    Ah yes, last Wednesday night I was out riding around at 2:30 AM with
    Bridget.  She fell asleep, but woke as soon as I stopped the car.
    I'm not sure what to do, today is the 6th day on the amoxicyllin and
    she's still cranky.  She saw the Dr. two days ago and he said they 
    were healing.  She only woke up once last night which is an improvement
    and she has playful periods but she is still not the happy baby she
    once was.  Anybody else's baby take this long to bounce back to their
    happy selves?   
    
    Sandy, I think I would go with the tubes at this point.  I think I would 
    do just about anything to stop the ear infections if I were in your 
    shoes.  I really feel for both of you.  Its so hard when they're sick.
    Take care, I hope Aaron recovers quickly.  Keep us updated.  
    
    Kathy
    

    
    This may have been discussed in earlier replies (just started reading
    this file recently) - children who are in homes where people smoke are
    susceptible to ear infections and of course other respirtory ailments.
    
    

    
    Yes it has been discussed.  Nobody in my home smokes and I don't allow
    anybody to smoke inside my house.  They can go down the basement or
    outside if they need to puff.   Although my neice lives in a house
    where there is cigarette smoking (shes 2) and she has only had 3 ear
    infections to date.  I'm thankful for that, she's such a little cutie.

    Yup, we're also non-smokers and don't allow anyone to smoke in our
    home.  We also have quit going to dinner with my in-laws since they
    insist on sitting in the smoking section.  We even have an air cleaner
    in Aaron's room for dust, pollen, etc.  One thing we haven't done is
    take away the pacifier at night and I've read articles stating that
    some studies have linked pacifiers to ear infections.  Anyone have any
    tips for taking them away?  We won't do it while he's sick, but once he
    feels better it's probably a good idea.  He really only uses it when he
    goes to sleep, I generally take it out an hour or so after he goes to
    sleep and lay it close by if he wakes up and wants it, and in the
    morning when he wakes up.  He can't have it outside of his crib.
    
    I've made an appointment with Dr. Chamberlain (an ENT) for next Friday
    afternoon, it won't hurt to talk to him.  I just hate the idea of
    having to put Aaron under for an operation.  But we can't let this
    continue either.
    
    sandy

    Sandy,
    
    Dr. Chamberlain is *WONDERFUL* (in my opinion).  He does look a little
    odd at first with that mirror thingy on his head, but I think he's a
    real sweetheart.  
    
    He was actually one of the few Drs who was willing to listen to my "Do
    you think he might be sensitive to milk and tomatoes?" theories, for
    Jonathan.  He puts a lot of emphasis on what YOU think might be going
    on, and seemed more willing to work WITH us, than a lot of other Drs.
    
    I don't know about the pacifier .... Jonathan had a trillion ear
    infections, and always had a pacifier.  But the ear infections got
    immediately better when we started paying attention to milk and
    tomato/tomato products.  He's always had a pacifier, still does, and
    the ear infections are gone and not coming back either, from the looks
    of it (thank goodness!).
    
    Personally, I opt to keep him with the pacifier till he's through the
    "terrible two" tantrums - that and his blankie give HIM something to
    use to calm himself down after one of his fits.  And when he's ready to
    turn to it, I know that the worst of the fit is over with.  He pretty
    much uses it just at night or when he's really upset.  
    
    Good luck getting rid of it .... I never look forward to that, but now
    that we're coming on to kid #3, and neither of the older 2 ended up
    going to school with theirs, I'm less stressed knowing we WILL work
    through it somehow.  (-:
    
    Good luck!

    Well add my tale of woe to the collection.  I've added previous replies
    about Alex's ear infections.  We hadn't had one since last November
    which at that time took 4 different antibiotics to clear the
    infections.  Since then we were on 250mg of amoxicillin in the morning 
    and again at night.  In April we reduced the amount to 1 250mg pill
    in the morning and once those were gone that would be the end
    til...fall?  By the way, Alex loves medicine and thinks it is a treat
    to get them and was quite bummed that this batch was the last.
    
    So after 2 years of going through the infections (he is about 2.10 y.o) and
    being real savvy to catching them in the beginning, my husband and I
    missed big time. A week ago Sunday Alex suddenly came down with a fever
    and croup.  Over the next 6 days the croup turned to a bad cold and the
    temp fluctuated  from normal to 102.6. Mornings were usually normal so 2 of
    the days he went off to day care and it would rise off and on throughout 
    the day, and that would get him sent home.  The odd part for Alex was 
    he was sleeping 15 or so hours a day.  The reason we didn't suspect
    ears was 1/2 day care was out for the same thing and by the end of the
    week my husband had caught it, then me. It did seem to me though that Alex's
    case of this flu was a bit worse than his day care mates and the long 
    sleeping and on and off again fever just got to me so we took him in.  The
    doctor said he had raging infections in both ears and he had them
    awhile.  We felt like the worst parents.  How could we have missed this
    But since he was already on the antibiotic and I had eliminated dairy,
    I thought it was more like the annual spring sickness I used to get as
    a kid which were related to allergies.  Now he's on Sulfamethoxazole with 
    temp susplem 2x a day. After the second dose he was remarkably better.  He 
    hadn't eaten in a week either and last night he was ravenous for the first 
    time - it was such a pleasure to see our boy back again.
    
    I too hate him being on all these antibiotics, especially the
    "maintenance dose".  I just don't think we can go through this another
    winter.  After this episode I plan to talk with his regular pedi about
    alternatives.
    
    Kathy

    
    About a month ago I wrote how well Laura was doing on her maintenance
    dose of antibiotics. Well wouldn't you know it the next week she comes
    down with a cold. I finally brought her & her brother in to be looked
    at. She had a minor ear infection so went on amoxicillion for 10 days.
    At her recheck she still had fluid in her ear so now she's on a
    maintenance dose af the amox for 30 days.
    
    Now I really don't feel her ears are that big of a problem because it's
    actually her 1st one since last july. I'm not sure whether I want to
    keep giving her the antibiotics this time. She goes for her 18 month
    checkup next month and the dr is going to check her again. My MIL is
    starting to drive me crazy saying she probably needs tubes. I've tried
    to explain that I don't think she's that bad but it's not getting
    through. She does daycare for me and this is the 1st major disagreement
    we've had. She also doesn't like to see her staying on the antibiotics
    but I can't understand why she thinks surgery would be better.
    
    Anyway, Kathy & Sandy, hang in there. Spring is definately here and
    everyone is going to be nice and healthy. It's so much better when
    the kids aren't sick. And try not to feel guilty about not catching
    something at the right moment. It happens. Laura had a cough this
    winter that had turned into a mild case of pneumonia by the time I
    brought her in to be seen. How do you think I felt? (at least it wasn't 
    an ear infection :) Of course it didn't help that my husband thought
    she should be looked at and I told him he was overreacting.
    
                         Barbara
    
    

     
    one more thing.  My son also uses a pacifier for night sleeping.  Some
    people do feel pacifiers contribute to these ear infections.  I don't
    know...  Like someone else recently mentioned he has it in his mouth
    until he falls asleep. It usually falls out a short while later
    (although some nights he just kneads away on that thing in his sleep
    with perfect contentment.) and I place it near him so he can find it
    when he reaches out for it.  So all in all perhaps he has it in from a
    quarter to half the night and isn't allowed to use it any other time.  
    The dairy was easy to cut out but banning the pacifier is another thing 
    altogether.  We had decided to concentrate on getting him a big boy bed 
    and potty training before forcing him to curb his "mudgie" as he calls 
    it.
    
    Kathy

    
    Well, Bridget finished her amoxicyllan on Sunday.  Sunday night she was
    up screaming for 2 hours.  Could not be consoled, finally got her back
    down, she woke at 5:30 AM screaming.  She usually wakes up chatting to
    herself.  Also during the night Sunday, I could hear her sniffling,
    yup, another cold.  Took her to the pedi yesterday, he said her ears
    are clear but that she is a sitting duck for another ear infection 
    because of the new cold.  He put her on a preventative dose of 
    Gastrin (?) - 1 teaspoon daily.  We have to mix it with her fruit
    because we cant get the medi in her any other way.  Well, she ate
    it yesterday, we'll see what today brings.  I'm so tired from being
    up every night.   Last couple of days she's been fine during the day
    but still wakes at night.  She doesn't just cry, she SCREAMS, tears
    everthing.  Last night, she really fought me going down at bedtime,
    usually down by 8pm.  I finally got her down at 8:30, the phone woke
    her up at 9PM and she was inconsolable from 9-10pm.  She wouldn't take a
    bottle, wouldn't take a pacifier, wouldn't let me rock her, I tried 
    putting her back down, she was hysterical.  I finally had to rock her
    in the carriage til she fell asleep, then I moved her to the crib.
    She then woke at 3:30 AM, when she started crying, I went downstairs
    to get a bottle ready, it took about 10 minutes and when I went back
    upstairs she had fallen back asleep on her own.  I know she cried for
    most of that time because I could hear her from downstairs.   Do you
    think she could just be in a bad habit from being sick and up alot?
    I hate to let her cry because she does have a really bad cold but
    when she is inconsolable like that, I feel like I'm going thru colic
    all over again.  She cries if I hold her, she cries if I don't.  Oh
    well, riding the storm out.
    
    Kathy
    

    
    Oh and Bridget also uses a pacifier, maybe I'll try and get her off it
    when she recovers from this bout.  

    We're taking Aaron in on May 23 to get tubes put in.  Steve and I feel
    that it is the best thing to do at this point, even though we've been
    trying to avoid it.  Yes, spring is almost here, when colds go away. 
    The only thing is, Aaron has had at least 10 infections since October,
    and only 3 of those were (in my opinion) related to colds.  The E,N,&T
    specialist feels that the infections will not subside through the
    summer.  We've been lucky so far, Aaron's speech development has not
    been affected, but we don't know how long the luck will continue.  We
    also feel that having Aaron on antibiotics is at least as harmful as
    the ear infections themselves.
    
    Any words of encouragement?
    
    sandy

    Sandy hh having gone through this, I can tell you what a tremendous
    relief it was to have the tubes put in Lauren's ears.  She was 18
    months old at the time and it was the scariest day of my life, but once
    she was in recovery it was great.  She did have one break through
    infection about a week after the tubes, then after a couple of months
    the tubes fell out, I actually saw one, but not the other.  Lauren is
    now 9 years old and knock on wood, she has not had another ear
    infection since.
    
    Best of Luck,
    
    Roberta
    p.s. there are quite a few notes in the old conference about tubes that
    I found reassuring....
    

    Hi Sandy,
    I just want to say good luck and I'd be doing the same thing if I
    were you. It might seem like a drastic step but I've heard alot of
    positive remarks that seem to show it's often the best choice.
    
    Hang in there and let us know how it goes.
    
                          Barbara
    

    Hi Sandy,
    
    Of course, there is a downside to this, you know.  He might wind
    up being able to hear my bossy Angeline's yapping even more.  :-)
    
    Good luck Sandy, I bet it at least feels good to be able to take
    some action.
    
    						cj *->

    Sandy,
    
    I entered a note in the ear tubes note last fall about our experience
    having the tubes put in.  My son was just 5 last October, and had
    constant fluid in his middle ears that would get infected just from
    sitting in there.  No colds, just ear infection after ear infection.  
    
    The tubes have been great.  Operation day is tough, but it's over so
    quickly.  We had not seen our doctor in 6 months, it was great.  Then,
    just last week he was up one night crying that his ear hurt.  Sure
    enough, the tubes have both fallen out (drat) and he has an ear
    infection, again.  So, we are starting out on Amoxicillin, since he has
    been medicine-free for so long.  It seems to be doing the trick.  We go
    back for a check up next week.  If the fluid is still there, I am going
    to push to get the tubes put in again.  The ENT showed me how bad his
    hearing is with the middle-ear fluid there, and it was scary.
    
    By the way, we had the surgery at Emerson Hospital in Massachusetts,
    they were great.
    
    Good luck,
    Julie

    RE: .-1
    
    I had a similar bout with my son and tubes.  THe tubes worked well,
    while they were in.  Shortly after they fell out, a cold started the
    infection train again.  The problem really was that the fluid within
    the ear would take too long to completely drain.  This made him prone
    to another infection.  Cure:  We move to a two week dosage of the
    antibiotic.  This gave him a few extra days to drain.  Since that time,
    we've had NO problems at all.   See if the longer period is an option
    with your pedi.
    
    It has now been 2 years since his last major bout with infections. 
    We're guessing that he's pretty much outgrown the problem.
    
    
    Dan

    Well, Aaron's right ear is infected again.  The last few nights he
    cried a little when we put him to bed where he usually just rolls over
    and falls asleep (lucky, aren't we).  Wednesday night he woke up a few
    times early in the night, we gave him some Motrin around 10:00 and he
    slept the rest of the night.  I took him to the pediatrician yesterday
    afternoon and she said his right ear is infected (not nearly as bad as
    it usually is, but I think if we'd waited one more day it would have
    been really bad).
    
    I just spoke to his E, N, & T's office who said that as long as he's on
    an antibiotic he should be able to have surgery next Thursday.  Has
    anyone else been through this?  Geesh, just when I started seeing some
    light at the end of this tunnel.
    
    sandy

    
    	Sandy, have you tried taking Aaron off milk yet ?
    
    	I know you said you might, but did you ever try it ?
    
    	Karen
    

    Aaron has some formula through the day.  When we tried to switch him to
    milk the last time the ear infections started backup so we stopped
    that.  He won't take soy formula and he was growing so fast we aren't
    willing to give up regular formula's as a source of fat and calcium.
    Once we're past this juncture we'll start weaning him off of bottles
    (formula).
    
    I plan to ask about 14 days of antibiotics rather than 10 days in the
    future.  I really hope the tubes work!
    
    sandy

    
    	Andrew's infections did not stop until he came off of formula
    	fully.  For calcium, we give him Calcium fortified OJ.  Aaron's
    	over 1 year, right ?  
    
    	Just food for thought.  I don't think tubes were ever really
    	an option for Andrew.  He had many infections, but not a lot
    	of fluid in the ears.
    
    

    I'd love to give Aaron calcium fortified orange juice (plus he'd get
    more vit. C!!) but he won't drink any kind of juice.  It doesn't matter
    whether it's straight or cut with water in varying strengths.  He just
    doesn't like juices.  Unfortunately he gets that from me, I guess.
    
    sandy
    

    
    Another good source of calcium is Tums.  My Dr had suggested this at
    one point for Jonathan when I was struggling to get calcium in him.
    
    Of course NOW he thinks they're candy, and wants to eat them all the
    time!!
    
    

    
    Hi Sandy,
    
    I was wondering if Aaron had his surgery and how you all made out ?
    Best of Luck and Good Wishes to you all, especially the little one.
    
    Kathy
    
    
    

    Aaron had his surgery on Thursday.  We took him in at 6:30 (left home a
    few minutes before 6:00) expecting him to be a very cranky, tired, and
    hungry baby.  Instead he was the darling of the waiting room, as well
    as the hall which he kept wanting to run down with his father chasing
    him!  He was fine up until we had to let the nurse and anesthesiologist
    took him away to start the procedure.  Steve and I wanted to start
    crying and calling for him too!
    
    Less than 20 minutes later the doctor came in to tell us he was in
    recovery, that all went well but that he still had some infection in
    both ears.  That's not good since when we took him to the pediatrician
    the previous Thursday he only had one ear infected...sigh.  So he gave
    us an ear drop prescription that had an antibiotic in it and told us to
    use those 3 times daily (much easier said than done).
    
    The nurse came and got me to go to recovery as he woke up (only one
    parent could go in).  When I got there a nurse was giving him sugar
    water and then handed him over.  I sat in the rocker with Aaron and
    gave him the rest of the little bottle of sugar water.  When he
    finished it he started crying, you know that cry.  It's the moan cry
    that really doesn't reach a peak, just stays at a level that lets you
    know he's miserable.  After about five minutes of singing and talking
    to him he was more awake and realized that there were things going on
    around him that was more interesting than crying!  So I put him in a
    position where he could see what was going on.  We cuddled for another 
    10 or 15 minutes and we could leave that area and go to another
    recovery area where Steve could join us.  He was so glad to see his
    father, he was calling "papa" before we were halfway down the hall.
    
    In the other recovery area Steve gave Aaron a small bottle after which
    Aaron was ready to go explore the world.  The nurse was amazed, Aaron
    was going from one place to another wanting to go say hi to the other
    patients and acting like nothing had happened (with mom and dad
    following as closely as possible incase the anesthesia made him
    unsteady on his feet).
    
    We left the hospital by 9:30.
    
    sandy

    Aaron seemed to recover from surgery pretty quickly.  He started
    talking constantly, it must sound different now with no fluid in his
    ear.  After we got him home Thursday we fed him breakfast and then put
    him down for a nap, he slept 3 hours.  He really hated it when we put
    in the ear drops, he fought like a tiger.
    
    Friday he was fine, acting as though nothing had happened.  He took one
    3 hour nap again (he usually takes only 1 nap a day, in the morning,
    that lasts about 2 hours).  And had a great time playing on Friday
    evening.  Unfortunately he around 2 am or so he must have had a bad
    dream (about mom and papa letting the nurse taking him away, no doubt!)
    because he woke us up with a heartbreaking scream and crying.  It took
    me all of 5 seconds to get out of bed and into his room (it took a few
    seconds after that for my eyes to actually open).  He quieted down as
    soon as I picked him up and he wanted to be put back in bed after a couple
    of minutes of cuddling.
    
    He's been fine since, except for waking up groaning last night.  We
    think it's because last night for the first time in 10 days or so we
    didn't wake him up to give him his antibiotic.  He woke up about 1/2
    hour after the time we usually wake him up.  Once we gave him his
    pacifier and blanket he went back to sleep.  He was poking at his ear
    this morning.  I put in a call to the doctor and they told me to
    continue with the ear drops for another 5 days (again that's easier
    said than done).  It's possible he's poking his ears because they are
    healing and itchy.
    
    We gave him his first bath since the procedure on Sunday.  I sat down
    in the living room, showed him the cotton balls and brushed one against
    his face so he could feel it.  Then I took the cover off of the vaseline
    and let him touch that (of course he tasted it...).  Then I rubbed a
    cotton ball in the vaseline and put it in my ears.  I let Aaron touch
    them while they were in my ear.  After that we went upstairs where
    Steve was running the bath.  Aaron and I put vaseline soaked cotton
    balls in Steve's ears.  Then it was Aaron's turn.  He started to get a
    little stressed, but once he realized it didn't hurt he was fine.  He
    didn't even try to pull the cotton out while in the bath tub.  Of
    course now we'll all have to have cotton in our ears when giving Aaron
    his bath!
    
    sandy

you might try silicon ear plugs instead of the cotton.  They're pretty easy
to deal with.  I buy them at Walgreens.  They're brightly colored and stay
in pretty well.  Good for swimming too.

Lori

    Well, at Aaron's ear check last Monday he was so agreeable that the
    surgeon suggested we have "custom" ear plugs made.  Aaron sat on my lap
    while the nurse cleaned the ear and put in some stuff that looked a
    little like playdoh in his ear (she really packed it in good).  She
    marked the left mold so we'd know which was which.  She had to put some
    type of coating on them to help them harden (though they're not really
    hard, they're a little flexible).  They work great!  As long as he
    doesn't play with them and we get put them in correctly they're not
    going to fall out.
    
    Aaron was so good with the ear checks last week (2 of them, one by the
    surgeon and the other by his pediatrician since we had her give him his
    15 month shots on Friday, only 1 1/2 months late).  He just whimpered a
    little.  Before he would scream as soon as the doctor started walking
    towards him.  The shots got a good scream for about 30 seconds though!
    
    Sandy

    
    What can anyone tell me about the antibiotic SUPRAX ?  My daughter is
    on it for an ear infection becuase I requested something that can be
    given once daily.   It's horrible trying to get any meds into her.
    Thanks,
    
    Kathy
    

    SUPRAX is a sulfa based antibiotic.  One of the "problems" with these
    is a sensitivity to sunlight.  I'll post the details from my PDR
    tomorrow.
    
    Dan

    
    	I can't give any medical details, but my son was on
    	SUPRAX for his most recent infection, and it worked
    	very well.  He seemed to tolerate it well, and loved
    	the taste (he asked for more after each dose ;-) ).
    
    	I found the once/day very convenient, too!
    

    This is the only antibiotic that seems to work for my son.  Especially
    for ear infections.  He also loves the taste and asks for more.  Makes
    it easier to give them if they like it.  However, when I switched
    Pedi's, due to insurance change, they said that they do not like to
    prescribe it because they have had a high incidence of diarhea with it. 
    It doesn't seem to bother my son that way though.  The last time we
    needed an antibiotic for my son, I finally convinced them to prescribe
    it.  It works like a charm.  We have slowly eliminated other choices due
    to allergies or the antibiotic just not working on him.
                                                          
    Joyce
    
                                          

    I just thought I'd give an update on Aaron's ears.  It's been 2 months
    and a few days since his tubes were put in and they seem to have done
    the trick.  Aaron survived a nasty cold without an ear infection which
    is the ultimate test.  He's also been teething, his top eyetooth
    (teeth?) and molars came in at the same time and now his bottom ones
    are coming in together.  
    
    Plus we're finally switching him from formula to milk.  Now he's
    getting  half of each.  The only difference it's made is in his bowel  
    movements, they're less frequent and firmer (aren't you glad I'm
    sharing this with you!?).  We believe that his reaction to milk was the
    cause of one of his ear infections.
    
    Here's hoping that once the tubes fall out he'll have out grown the
    infections...
    
    sandy

    Well, I thought I'd put in an update on Aaron for anyone who's
    interested or anyone who has a child getting chronic ear infections and
    who may be considering tubes.  As I've said many times in this file, we
    think the "real" cause of Aaron's ear infections was a sensitivity to
    formula/milk.  He had his first ear infection about a week after he
    quit nursing twice a day, first thing in the morning and last thing at
    night, he was about 8 months.  We switched to formula.    Aaron was
    never allowed to lay down with a bottle, he could only have one if he
    was in Steve's or my lap so it wasn't a problem with it pooling.  Also
    neither Steve or I smoke (he's never been exposed to cigarette smoke in
    an enclosed environment).  By the time we figured out milk as a
    probably cause he was on an antibiotic circle, get off the antibiotic
    with clear ears, come back  1 1/2 weeks later with another infection... 
    We took him  off of an evening bottle and he went a month without
    having an infection, then he got a cold.
    
    Any way, we finally got the ear tubes put in May (his ear infections
    started early October).  We went until December without having to go to
    the doctor, then he got the "flu from he**" and we found drainage from
    his left ear.  He went on antibiotics again, but only the one round and
    his ears have been clear since.  When we took him for a checkup they
    said that the tubes are out of the eardrums which means he's fighting
    off possible infections on his own.  I was really worried about him
    getting another cold because I knew the infections would come back. 
    Well he got a cold a couple of weeks ago with a lot of drainage, the
    cold is almost gone now and NO INFECTIONS!!!!!
    
    I'm really hoping we're past that stage now.
    
    If someone were to come to me and ask me if the surgery was worth the
    risk of putting him under I would have to say yes.  After all of the
    pain he went through last winter compared the relative ease of this
    winter, and getting him off of the antibiotic merry-go-round was worth
    the risk.  I'm hoping I won't have a reason to write in this particular 
    note again, except when giving advice or opinions of course!
    
    sandy

    Alycia came down with her first ear infection this Friday.  She was
    running a fever of 102, and had a bad chest cold.  Doctor said that
    it's pretty infected.
    
    He put her on Amoxil.  She seemed to be feeling a little better on
    Sunday, but not 100%.  Also, she started with diarhea(sp??) on Friday
    and still has it today.  She won't eat babyfood and will only take a
    bottle every so often, and then only drinks a little bit.  She nursed a
    bit over the weekend, but I'm at work today and can't nurse her.  The
    Day care provider said that she's only drank about 6 ounces from 8:00am
    to 3:00pm.  She did have some cereal and pears this morning, but that's
    all she's had.
    
    I called the doctor and he said that the amoxil is giving her the
    diarhea.  He took her off of it and will put her on a different
    antibiotic tomorrow.  He wants the amoxil to get out of her system
    first.
    
    My question... does anyone know how easily a baby can become
    dehydrated?  As I said, she's had diarhea for 4 days now, and hasn't
    been able to take a bottle or eat babyfood.  I think it's because her
    ear hurts so much.  I think the Amoxil is just sustaining the
    infection, not making it any better or letting it get any worse. 
    Hopefully the new antibiotic will start working right away.
    
    But how long can she go like this before she becomes dehydrated??
    
    Thanks for the info...
    
    Holly (an extremely worried first time mom)

    
    Holly,
    
    	I don;t know how long, but drinking lots of fluid is necessary
    for healing/recovery. Have you tried Pedialyte? It is an electrolyte
    used to replenishe lost fluid, especially with diarhea. You can find
    that in CVS or supermarkets next to the baby formulas.  
    
    Eva
     

    Yup, tried Pedialite... she won't take that either.  I even tried the
    bubblegum flavor, which is what her medicine is flavored like and she
    seems to like that.  Tried Juice, which she loves .. nope!  Basically,
    she won't take a bottle.  The only thing she'll take for any extended 
    time is me.
    
    
    I think it's hurting her ear to swallow from the bottle and from the
    spoon, but not from me.  Wonder why?
    
    Holly
    

    Holly,
    
    If she is wettihng less than 4 diapers/day, start to worry.  Atlehi did
    this when she was small, and I finally had to stay home with her for
    two days, as the only thing she would drink was mommy.  I also spooned
    dribbles of water into her, which Frank couldn't get her to do.  I was
    a pretty scarey time, and I about lost it with her Dr and Frank a
    couple of days.  
    
    meg

    She is wetting .. but not nearly as much as she usually does.  I'll
    have the day care provider keep track.
    
    thanks Meg.
    
    Holly
    

    
    Perhaps check with your pedi on juices that can be used when
    the baby has diarrhea.  I think they usually prefer none but
    may allow white grape.  Apple is usually a no-no.
    
    

    Well.. Alycia had a major crying fit about two hours before I picked
    her up at daycare.  It lasted for about an hour.  The daycare provider
    gave her some tylenol for her ear shortly after the crying fit started
    and she basically cried herself to sleep in the daycare provider's
    arms.  Poor baby!!
    
    When I got her home last night, she nursed for about a half an hour. 
    Then wanted to nurse again about an hour later.  She had diarhea again
    last night, but this morning it was a bit "denser".  (oh.. if she reads
    this in a few years, I'm gonna be dead!)
    
    She does seem to be in a better mood today.  She's not as cranky, and
    actually smiled at us and the kids at daycare (she's normally a VERY happy
    baby).  
    
    Calling the doctor today to get a different antibiotic.  Thanks
    everyone for your help.
    
    Holly

    Holly,
    
    Do yourself this favor, whenever she gets an ear infection;
    
    Get some children's Advil (NOT tylenol)
    Give her the advil, and wait about 1/2 hour
    Be ready with lots to eat/drink.
    
    Don't try to feed her when the advil's wearing off.  Jonathan used to
    HOWL like you were ripping his limbs off ... then a dose of advil (it
    was prescription then), the dreaded "20 min wait", and voila! it was
    like another child appeared in the house.  And actually, he'd act so
    good, I'd always forget to follow up, til he started getting cranky
    again.
    
    Keep on the advil for the first 1-2 days, and by then the antibiotic
    should have helped considerably.  Also, try to time the dosing so that
    she's getting one ~1/2 hour before bedtime.
    
    Good Luck!  Amoxy does nothing for 2 out of 3 of my kids.  Bactrim is a
    good alternative .... and there's a zillion others.  REMEMBER this,
    becaue next time they might try amoxy again, and you need to pipe up
    and say "Well, she had a bad reaction, and it ddn't seem to work - can
    we try something else?"  They should, willingly.
    
    -Patty
    

    
    Oh yeah .... and being able to nurse, versus a bottle ... I know if I
    have an ear infection, it helps to put direct pressure to my ear. 
    Maybe she's sort of "squishing" into you when she's nursing, and that's
    helping alleviate some of the pressure/pain for her.

    the jaw and mouth motions and shape are almost totally different for
    nursing vs a bottle.  
    
    meg

    Another vote for Advil (Motrin is the same, isn't it).  It WILL make
    your child feel much better.
    I have found that the amoxcillin and the augmentin (peniccilin based)
    tend to be very weak compared to Bactrim or Zithromax in treating the
    specific bacteria strain that is present in most ear infections.
    Zithromax is an erithromycin based antibiotic.  It is taken once a day
    for five days.  We have had very good luck with it as well as with the 
    (Preazoil??) which is a hybrid sulfa/erithromycin medication.
    Alyssa had one lengthy ear infection this winter.  One week she had a
    104+ fever and even with Motrin and antibiotics it took a full five
    days before the fever went below 102+.  
    Good luck you you and your little one.
    
    Nancy 
    

    RE: Advil...
    
    But how much do I give her?  Every bottle of medicine that I ever see
    that is supposed to be for "infants" says "children under 2 years old,
    consult your doctor".  So much for "infant" formulas!
    
    So ... anyone know how much to give a 6 month old?
    
    Holly
    

    with Advil, when Aaron was little they would ask what his temp was
    along with what his weight was.  When he was around 25(ish) pounds they
    would say 3/4 tsp for a temp under 102 and 1 tsp for a temp over 102. 
    Ask your doctor (gee, where did I read that?).
    
    I have to agree with the recommendations for Advil and for Zithromax. 
    We used Zithromax 3 times for Aaron's ear infections, after that it was
    ineffective (along with everything else the doctor would prescribe....)
    Aaron had a gastric reaction to Biaxin.   And any white antibiotic
    would be spit right back out, he only wanted the pink stuff.
    
    sandy

    Well... luckily Alycia isn't running a temp anymore.  Called the
    doctor's office and they said to stick to tylenol if it's working. 
    It's working ok, but wearing off before the 4 hours is up.  Tylenol is
    only for the pain.  It's working ok, I guess.  She did sleep through
    the night last night, so it must be working ok for her.
    
    Ah well.. off to get the new antibiotic tonight.  He perscribed Ceclor. 
    Anyone heard of that??
    
    Holly
    

    Ceclor worked great for my kids when Amoxicillin didn't.
    And they liked the taste.
    
    Janice

    Ceclor is a pretty good Antibiotic.  Main side affect I have run into
    is thrush, but I have some problems with that with any antibiotic I
    take.  
    
    meg

    Oh, and you all have kids under three that weigh more than 25 pounds?  
    
    ;-)
    
    meg, mother of fairy children.

Just like for tylenol, infant's advil/motrin is by weight.   But the
dosage is different than tylenol.   So call your doctor and ask.
His or her nurse can probably tell you.   Don't go by age.  

A pox on the drug companies that won't put the darn weight chart 
ON THE BOX where it belongs.  

And yes, Meg, my 8 month old weighs 27 pounds.  The adults are
all getting strong biceps in my house!   So is day care.   Beth B. 

    Ceclor is pretty good/strong/broad spectrum antibiotic ... means that
    it will kill a wide variety of "bugs".
    
    For Advil/motrin dosing, your pharmacist should have a sheet that lists
    the dosing by weight.
    
    If she's in so much pain that she won't drink, I'd disagree that the
    tylenol is working well for her ... but that's my opinion.  At times
    when it got REALLY bad, we've even had to use both tylenol and advil to
    cut the pain enough to get through the first couple days.  I,
    personally,  didn't see the sense in making us all suffer.  If you had
    a horrendous headache, would you rather take 1 aspirin to just "cut the 
    pain" or 2 aspirin to make it go away?  And when it's REALLY bad, don't
    you usually take 3 ??  
    
    YMMV .... 
    
    Meg, I wish *I* had fairy children.  My 3 yr old is 40 lbs, and is now
    heavier than my 4-yr-old (almost 5, gosh!) fairy niece who tops out at
    34 lbs on a "heavy" day.  Of course I remember being 12 yrs old and
    weighing 62 lbs, so obviously my son isn't taking after my side of the
    family!! (-:
    
    -Patty
     

    When my then one-year-old had very high temp for very long, the doctor
    told me to alternate Advil and Tylenol every 3 hours.  Apparently they
    don't interact.  This was a very effective combination.  Ask your
    doctor if that is OK for your children.
    
    Janice

    We also alternated the advil/tylenol every 3 hours when Aaron had a
    temp of 104 + for several days last December.  It worked well.
    
    As far as antibiotics go, we had good luck with Cefzil and Zithromax. 
    They never prescribed Ceclor because "they" told us that it causes more
    stomach problems for little ones.  I kind of wonder if it's because
    it's more expensive than the others (we're in a hmo).  I know that
    Ceclor always worked really well for my sinus infections, but it's
    really expensive (5 years ago it was over $90 for a 10 day
    prescription).
    
    Last night when Steve picked Aaron up from daycare Aaron told him that
    his ear hurt.  So off to the pediatrician we went.  Sure enough he has
    a mild ear infection.  Thank goodness he can actually tell us when the
    ear starts hurting rather than waking up at 2:00 am with a fever and in
    a lot of pain like last year!
    
    Anyway, he's on Zithromax (our request).  We want to get rid of it the
    first time instead of putting him on amoxycillan and then going to
    something stronger to get rid of the more resistant bacteria (like last
    year).  Hopefully his cold will go away and it will be the last of the
    season, I really hate those colds that seem to go away only to come
    back stronger than ever.
    
    It's my fault he has the ear infection. I've been telling everyone that
    he's been staying healthy, I jinxed us.
    
    sandy

    A vote for Advil and Tylenol....
    
    When Alex has a fever/aches we start with Tylenol and then switch to
    Advil then back again.  Seems to work better.  Sometimes, Tylenol will
    work and sometimes not.
    
    Please check with your doctor about giving juice when child is ill. 
    Mine will not allow Alex juice when she has a fever...water
    only...juice has sugar...causes you to be more thirsty and sometimes
    (all the time in our case) cause stomick problems...ie, frequent
    bathroom trips...
    
    Kathi
    

    My daughter's pedi said to absolutely NOT give Advil and Tylenol on
    piggy back doses (not even when spaced apart every three hours).  Very
    recent studies have indicated that it is very taking on the liver.
    
    Regards,
    Nancy	

    27 lbs at 8 months old!!!!!!! YIKES!  My aching back!
    Is she at least walking?
    						cj *->

    
    	Sandy,
    
    	The only time my Andrew told me that his ears hurt ("Mommy,
    	my ears hurt.  Both of them!") was a few weeks ago.  We
    	scrambled to get to him to the doctor's that night, and
    	both ears were clear!  After telling my husband and I twice,
    	then very clearly telling the nurse why he was there, the
    	doctor examined him, and asked, "Andrew, do your ears hurt?"
    
    	Andrew replied, "Nope."
    
    	AARRGH! ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    	When he does have an infection, we only know by his waking
    	at night.  We don't accept prescriptions for Amoxycillan for
    	either kid anymore, as we've never gotten an infection resolved
    	in the first ten days on that antibiotic.
    
    	Meg,
    
    	Andrew turned 3 on Monday, and weighs in at 33 pounds.  My 
    	four year old is 43 pounds.  
    
    KAren
    

>    27 lbs at 8 months old!!!!!!! YIKES!  My aching back!
>    Is she at least walking?

Not only is he not walking, he's not even real big on rolling over yet. :^)
Though he's starting to try to pull up on the furniture, and can push himself
backwards if he's put on his stomach on the floor.  He's not an overly
chubby kid (for 8 months), and is very well proportioned, just tall and heavy.  

I know as soon as he's crawling I'll miss the days when I could sit or
lay him on the floor, and know he'd still be there if I looked away for
a moment.  But right now we're really looking forward to not having
to carry him from room to room.     Beth B. 

>    They never prescribed Ceclor because "they" told us that it causes more
>    stomach problems for little ones.

"They" were never able to confirm it, but my daughter wound up
with 8 months of chronic diarrhea (>10 times a day) and many
trips to Children's Hospital about two weeks after finishing a
14 day round with Ceclor.  The doctor at Children's did confirm
that Celcor can cause intestinal problems.  Apparently, Ceclor 
not only kills the ear infection germs, but also the 'good'bacteria 
in the stomach/intestines.  When I say that they were not able to 
confirm it, I mean the tests they did to confirm all the 'good' 
bacteria in the intestines were dead came back negative -- but they 
did acknowledge that these tests did sometimes result in false 
negatives/false positives.  Many stool samples, dirty diapers, and 
a sigmoidostopy (sp?) later, they finally put her on the drug that
they typically use in cases where the 'good' intestinal bacteria 
have all died, and the diarrhea stopped -- for about two months, at
which point she needed the drug again.  Three rounds of the drug to
stop the diarrhea, and finally, all was well.  

On the other hand, my son never had problems with Ceclor.  But, it 
is clearly not my first choice of an antibiotic for a child.  

Mary

    
    	From what my pedi said, any antiobiotic can do this,
    	although it is rare.
    
    	My son spent seven months on antibiotics, (from age
    	6 months through 13 months) and during that time, he
    	had very loose bowels and too many dirty diapers to
    	count.  He only gained 2 pounds during that time, but
    	because he was already 21+ pounds when he started the
    	antibiotics, the doctor's didn't seem concerned.  However,
    	when he went off them, he grew two inches and gained four
    	pounds in the next three months.
    
    	Now, whenever Andrew is on antibiotics, we make sure he
    	eats at least one yogurt a day.  A friend just adds acidophilus
    	to her kid's diet for the course of the antibiotic treatment.
    	
    	Karen
    

    Thank you everyone for all of your priceless information.  Alycia is
    doing MUCH better.  The Ceclor seems to work for her, and she loves the
    taste of it!  It smells like watermelon.  She is feeling much better
    lately, and basically back to her old self, although she is still
    having a rough time with the bottle.  
    
    Hopefully she'll be able to drink a bottle with no problem by the end
    of the week, because I really need to wean her so I can take my
    medicine for my knees!
    
    Holly