Conference moira::parenting

    Is there anyone at the day care center that you would be willing
    to ask to babysit for you?  At my center there are some college
    students that I trust to watch my kids.  I've asked them to sit
    and it works out great because the kids know the sitter already
    and the sitter knows the kids.  
    
    Jennifer
    

I'm not a single mom, nor do I have to handle an ex-husband (mine has
conveniently dropped out of my life), but on the subject of getting out, I can
speak.

You really sound like you need some time off.  You may be picky about who you
leave your daughter with, but you've got to find someone.  (You don't say how
old she is, but mentioning school schedules gives us a ballpark).

So, try these things and then *do* it.  Get some time for yourself, or you *will*
go nuts.

If you are a member of a church, many of them have babysitting services.

Does your daughter have a special friend from school that you could arrange
to exchange sleep-overs?

Many daycare center employees (the caregivers) do babysitting on the side and
they are very good and reliable.  Investigate daycare centers near you and then
go talk to the director.  I'm sure you can find someone there. (And many of them
are in their 20s, so their judgement, in general, is probably a bit better than
high school age sitters).

Good luck.  I've always been awestruck how single parents like my sister do it.
I'm not sure I could.

Pat

    Yup you sound normal.  Every one of us goes through that.  I finally
    learned the hard way you have to have time to yourself.  After caring
    for 3 children on my own with no help from the ex, I finally collapsed
    and I'm lucky I don't have an medical problems from it.
    
    Now I make it a point to get out and have a life.  Of course it costs
    me for babysitting which I really can't afford.  I'm trying to do this
    around where I live, I read an article about a support group for single
    moms, each mom takes a turn and takes all the other moms kids for a day
    on the weekend so that way the other moms get a day off, and it rotates
    through the group.  You're guaranteed a day off every weekend except
    the weekend you've got the kids, it really helps, plus having a support
    group around you of other single moms to talk to about the uncertainity
    and the stress helps you to deal with being a single parent.
    
    It's never easy but it's definitely worth the effort.  :^)
    
    Where do you live?  Maybe someone in the notesfile might know of
    someone in your area that you could trust to babysit.
    
    Kim

    Gee, I know exactly how you feel.  I'm the single mother of twin girls.
    I work all day and cook, clean, do laundry, etc at night after work.
    My girls are home all day with a babysitter so I no longer have to get
    them up, feed them, pack their lunches and rush off to day camp, but
    the trade off to that is my food and electricity bill are ski high and
    the house looks like hurricane Brittany&Brandy when through every day
    by the time I get home.  (which equals more cleaning for me to do...).
    By the time Friday rolls around I'm just to damn (excuse me) exhausted
    to even thing about participating in a social life.  About the only 
    time I do go out is to parties of friends where there are other
    children there.  I receive no help from the twins father.  Haven't
    even gotten any child support for the past year.  He doesn't see
    them at all, nor does he give a hoot about them.  And he lives less
    then a mile from us.
    
    Sorry I can't offer any suggestions, just empathy.. sometimes it helps
    to know that you're not alone...
    
    Sharon
    

    I too, understand how you feel.  My X and I separated when my son was
    1yr.  I lived 5 blocks from him and he saw my son 4 times in two years. 
    I was always the one to call him and arange a time for him to be with
    his son.  He has NEVER taken Tyler for a weekend or even over night. 
    My X now lives with his parents in Texas (he was in the military) and
    wants to lower the child support.  He is always late with it and I
    usually call him on the first to remind him to mail it.  The funny
    thing is he says he doesnt have enough money to by new socks let alone
    pay child support, but every time I try to call him he is "at the
    bar".  I guess the price of beer must be realy low in Texas!
    
    I am lucky because I live with my mother.  She raised 4 kids
    practically by herself, my father was in the military and was overseas
    alot.  She can tell when I'm about to lose it and send me out by myself
    for a while.  I also run every morning while everyone is still asleep. 
    It isn't easy, but it is a must to find some time to yourself.
    ]
    
    	q	good luck
    
    virginia

    Boy, do I know how you feel!  I am a divorced mother of 2 and my ex
    lives out in Chicago.  He never calls or writes to the boys, so I am
    handling everything myself.  I had NO social life to speak of since I
    was too tired to do anything.  I finally said enough was enough and
    started making an effort to go out and meet some nice men.  Yeah, my
    babysitting bill is sky-high right now, but it is worth it!  I am not
    as irritable with my sons, and they are getting a chance to meet other
    kids so we all benefit.
    
    Somehow find a babysitter and go out!  You deserve it.

    A friend of mine is at the same point that you are, and we have been
    talking about it a lot lately.  As she puts it - it's time for her to
    "get a life"
    
    Her daughters are 7 and 10, and as a result of 4 years (since the
    divorce) of devoting all of her time to them and their needs and
    overlooking her own, the three of them are in for some big adjustments. 
    She just met a man and starting dating again, and the girls went
    ballistic!
    
    Two points have emerged.  1 - She hires babysitters every weekend so
    she gets some personal time, either to just go run errands alone or to
    develop a social life.  2 - Because she has done everything around the
    girls, they are very demanding of her time and attention and they are
    all struggling to tansition to a more normal life - one in which Mom
    gets to do some things for herself and the girls take on more
    responsibility for themselves.
    
    If she could talk to you she would echo what others have said - get a
    sitter and get some time for yourself.  In the end your daughter will
    respect you more for it.
    
    Good luck
    
    Mary

    All of you have been so supportive to me.  I have read each
    response, and realize what caring people there are **really**
    out there.  This conference has been so much help to me.
    
    I have to tell you this.... this weekend, after I wrote my
    very frustrating note to you all, and most agreed I needed to
    find a babysitter.  Well guess what???  Our neighborhood, which
    are detached condos, had a yard sale.  I participated in it,
    and met my new neighbors that **JUST** moved in, kitty corner,
    of me.  Their daughter is 12 years old, and she's is DIEING 
    to get babysitting jobs!!  I met her, I introduced her to Kristin,
    and I met her Mom and Grandmother.  What a God Sent this has
    been.  This young girl seems to be a doll, and my daughter took
    to her right away!!
    
    I'm going to call and use her babysitting services, and get
    out.  This has done so much for me.  I feel so calm and collected
    for once.  
    
    You Ladies have really helped me, and I want to thank you for that.
    This conference is definately a good support group.
    
    Thanks everyone.  I hope, I can be of some help to any of you in
    the future too!!
    
    Jane....
    
    

I think it is also important to quit depending on/blaming/expecting help from
the ex in situations like this.  Don't mix up your need for time alone and
your own issues with your ex.

My husband has a daughter (now grown) from his first marriage and it was a
long battle to separate his fatherly feelings from his emotional battle with his
ex.  And we paid child support and had her for reasonable visiting periods,
vacations, etc.  The problem was that each of them (he and his ex) seemed to
feel that they still had something to say about the other's lifestyle and
choices they made in what to do with time, money, etc.  When they quit messing
in each other's lives and only communicated for concerns of their daughter,
the situation improved tremendously.

And if, as many of you seem to have, there are problems with child support,
visitation, custody battles, do as another noter suggested, get a lawyer and
operate only through him.  Child visitation is the parent's right but is not
an obligation.  Sad is the parent who doesn't take it, but that's life.

Just a few words from our experiences.

Cheryl

    Jane,
    
    I'm glad things are working out for you.  Having someone local (that
    you don't have to drive home) is a big bonus - and building that
    relationship will work out great.  Good luck!
    
    -sandy
    

    This is practically IDENTICAL to the situation I WAS in. My daughter is
    now 9 years old. Her father and I separated when she was just
    begining to walk but throughout the years has kept in touch every now
    and then. Well, he happens to lives 5 minutes away from us and is
    SUPPOSE to come on Sundays to pick her up. It use to be he'd pick her
    up at 12:00...then it changed to 1:00. Now he picks her up at 2:00.
    Well, not EVERY Sunday. Somedays he doesn't come at all. He knows my
    number yet won't call to say (whatever the reason) is that he can't
    make it. So, we end up waiting around on Sunday wondering..is he or
    isn't he coming? Notice above I said the situation I WAS in. I gave up
    a long time ago putting up with his bs. Now, its like, if we want to go
    somewhere on a weekend, we"ll just go and not tell him. 
    
    Also, the first 3 or 4 years I never bothered him about child support
    but 2 years ago, I went to court to get an "order". That started the
    support payments coming in (not much, let me tell you) but it was
    something anyway. Later, he got laid off from his job and has been on
    un-employment for over a year!  Now, he's got the bs story that he
    couldn't help out with school clothes this year.. I know this to be
    pure bs because although he was "collecting", this guy has more money
    than I do. He has "assets" but does not put them under his name. 
    He is living with a girl I use to go to high school with! She has 2
    kids from a previous marriage. They are close in age to my daughter and 
    they get along good with her. So I'm sure he contributes to their
    welfare. 
    
    Once my daugher had called her father and I spoke with him for a few
    minutes. Well, the girlfriend found out that we spoke to each other and
    had her number changed! GET REAL. 
    
    Anyway, over the years, yes, I arranged for the daycare, the
    babysitters, left work for dr. dentist appts, and worried (still do) 
    about her while I was at work. Thank god for my parents who live across
    the street from me and have helped out tremendously. 
    
    I'm getting married next year but this DOES not mean that my daughters
    father will be scott free. On the contrary, he is financially
    responsible for her until she is 18 regardless of whether I'm married
    or not. Wonder if he knows that?? 
    
    Anyway, like I said, I could go on and on about the many times this guy
    has dissapointed my daugher in terms of picking her up at certain
    times, acknowledging how good she does in school,e tc. When he does
    pick her up, its not quality time thats for sure. Quality time is
    picking up your son/daughter and taking them to a movie, or a park..to
    the beach..or whatever...not bringing them to your house to watch tv. 
    
    But I give up...all that matters is that my daughter is happy. I don't
    say negative things about her father in front of her or let her know
    *I'm* upset at him.  At this point, she could care less if he comes or
    not!
    
    Anyway, I hope your situation gets better! Even though you may think
    the guy is scum (just thought I'd use that adjective..;-)  ), don't let
    your daughter know you're upset. 
    
    PS: His girlfriend is an as*hole, just my opinion. 
    
    Take Care, I know EXACTLY how you feel! 

    I went thru the same thing, and at that point I also wondered what I 
    could possible change to improve the situation. The doctor told me if
    I don't slow down I'll soon have a nervous break down...so I started to
    change a couple of things. I only work 6 hours a day now, after that do
    some sports, go to the massage sometimes...just something for myself,
    whatever it is. On the weekends I hardly ever leave her alone, because
    that makes me even feel worse, since I'm not around all week either...
    but the most important thing I think is, that you look at things
    differently. Don't blame your ex, he's ....well whatever, it's lost
    energy to even waste one more thought about him, it wont change your
    situation. Try to enjoy your togetherness and the work you do (I know
    that sounds weird), try to start seeing the little things in your life
    that are good again and enjoy them. It takes a little time but it
    worked with me. My daughter is now almost 5, and that's how long I'm
    doing this now. When I go out I take her with me, she knows all my
    friends and even visits them sometimes without me...it can only get
    better, believe me, and what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger,
    right? I wish you all the strength you need!

    I was a single parent for many years and had to deal with the issues of
    an ex and his family. We had the usual problems of child support,
    visitation, and them never returning the clothes that I sent.  All of
    these were hard issues for me since this was a whole new area.  I was
    raised with both parents and I felt bad that Nycole was not able to
    have both parents there.
    
    I remember the days of feeling like my whole world was going to
    explode, but I did get a babysitter and I too "got a life" but it still
    has its rough days. I used to call my ex up and ask him when he was
    going to visit Nycole. See I felt that I needed to do everything
    possible to make sure that she had a relationship with her father.(boy
    was that a stupid thought)  Finally I stopped calling and he stopped
    seeing her. I felt that it was his lost, but what I hated was the fact
    that he could stop seeing her for any amount of time and then one day
    want to visit and I had no say due to the fact that there was court
    papers that stated what his visitation rights were.  I felt that that
    was unfair and hard on the child.
    
    Too make a long story short, my ex would visit every now and then,
    Nycole did not know him that well so she would never call him Dad, so
    that was his loss.  Then was she was 12 he called us up and asked my
    husband to adopt him. ( He did not want to pay child support anymore,
    which was only ten dollars a week, and his new wife thought it would be
    better on them) So my husband did adopt her and now that Nycole is
    almost 16 and my ex has gotten another divorce, he calls and wants to
    talk to Nycole.  Well she has nothing to do with him. 
    
    What goes around comes around.
    Trisha

    RE: .13  Wow!!  This is exactly what I think is going to happen with my
    my daughter!!  She is slipping further and further away from her 
    Dad.  I try *NOT* to say harsh things about him, infront of her, but you
    know sometimes it can't be helped when you're on the phone and having
    a huffy discussion with him.  And my daughter is so smart.  She catches
    on to everthing.  I try to tell her Dad this, and he just thinks shes
    too young to understand.  Almost EVERY Sunday, now, she asks me if
    she really **HAS** to go with him or not.  The really sad thing, is
    to watch her watch some citcom on t.v., with a "Mom and Dad", and I
    can tell how much she longs to have a "daddy" figure in her life. 
    
    My boyfriend and I just broke up after two years, (actually we are just
    sorting things out), and my daughter loved him!!  She used to call him
    "DAD".  It was really cute, but sad at the same time.  
    
    I feel really sorry for all the Dad's out there, that are missing the
    most precious moments in their lives.
    
    Take care!  
    Jane

    For all practicle purposes I too am a single mother.  My husband is a
    truck driver and is only home on Monday and Thursdays.  I have all the
    same frustrations I have read in the other notes.
    
    This past weekend, I dropped Stephen (2) off at his brothers and
    Stephen spent the weekend playing with his cousins.  I had a much
    needed break and I feel so much better, it is amazing to be what two
    days alone can do.   It took me two years to get the the point of this
    time off being a necessity and I plan on doing it again sometime.
    
    If you have any family that would help out by taking your child for the
    weekend, it would be a great way to have the peace of mind that they
    are well cared for and have some time for yourself.
    
    You are not alone by no means.
    
    Take care of yourself.
    
    Kathy

    Correction on .15
    
    Sorry, that should that I dropped Stephen off at MY brothers...
    
    Kathy

    Hi,
    
    I've been where you are.  First, you can't change this guy, if you try,
    you are the one who will be angry, frustrated, and off the wall.  The
    only thing you can do is sit down with this guy, and rationally talk
    out how *he* will be handling visitation with his daughter, if any
    visitation at all.  That is a decision he has to make.  
    
    My son's father didn't see him until he turned 3 years old.  He left
    my son's life when he was 2 months old.   I raised him, emotionally 
    and financially by myself.  My son would ask who is my Daddy?  It would
    break my heart. But, I knew his father was not ready to be a father.  If
    he wasn't ready, he wouldn't be any good to him anyways.   I didn't bad
    mouth the guy, I told my son the truth, I didn't know where his Daddy
    was.
    
    Once and while I would send  progress reports to his father's, mother's 
    address (maybe once every six months). I knew he didn't live there, but I 
    knew he would get the letters neverless.  I sent these letters so he 
    wouldn't forget he had a son.  The letter's were light in
    nature, non-threatening, just how his son was doing, and his son was asking
    about his Daddy.  Well, right before my son's 3rd birthday, his father
    called, he wanted to see his son.   I had so many mixed emotions,
    anger, happiness, anxiety, all mixed up.  I decided this is his script,
    he must decide how he will handle the situation.  My only concern was
    I didn't want the child to be hurt.  We met for coffee prior to him
    seeing his son.  I told him if wanted to see his child, he had to be 
    consistent, children need schedules, if he could not do that, I could
    not let him see him. This was not to be mean, but the child didn't know
    him, why should I expose the child to his father, and then have his
    father jerk him around, I couldn't do that.   It was his decision, I 
    asked him to really think about it prior to making the decision to visit.
    I also told him that money was not an issue. His relationship with his 
    child was more important than me haunting him for money, and it is. 
      
    
    Well, he decided he wanted to see his child.  It started off very slow,
    a few hours on Sundays, and has now progressed to every other weekend.
    He pays child support, not because I asked, because he wants to.  
    They have a very nice relationship, but not because of me.  But,
    because I put the ball in his court, I let hime decide how he wanted to
    handle it. I allowed things unfold naturally, without trying to force 
    things.  It seemed to work, cause things turned out well.
    
    I still must cook, clean, do laundry, read bedtime stories, help with
    school work,  do the bills, go to work, go to school myself, take care
    of the dog, the two cats, etc., etc... but I enjoy it.  It gets over-
    whelming, but on those days, instead of having a big supper we have cereal
    and Mom lays on the couch.
    
    Like so many people have said, you must begin to build your own life,
    depend on yourself.  You can't depend on an X-husband, you will only
    be disapointed.  I have two teenager kids who babysit, I make time for
    myself, go out with friends and enjoy *my* life, if I don't enjoy life,
    how can I be there for the children?
    
    
    Chris
    
    
    
    
          
    
    
     talk with him rationally, if you can't
    talk rationally, write a letter.  Tell him he has to decide how he will
    be handling visitation to his daughterThis is not about you and him, it's
    about his relationship with his daugther. 

    From the response from this note, would there be any interest in
    forming a "single parent" support group?   I know many people are
    from many differant areas, but I thought I would throw it in to see
    what folks think.
    
    I work in Shrewsbury, and live in Northboro.
    
    Chris
    

    Chris,
    
    This is a great idea!  I think if you propose this as a VoD activity at
    your site, you will be able to get support from the Powers that Be. 
    It's at least as important as the various volleball and basketball
    leagues. ;-)
    
    L
    

    What is a Vod activity?
    
    Chris
    

    What a GREAT idea!!   Let's talk about doing it, organizing it,
    and figure out a place where we could, maybe all meet in the
    middle somewhere, to get together!!  I'm all for it, and will
    help facilitate this effort.  
    
    Single parenthood is truly the hardest job ever.  And a support
    group is very much needed.  I'm sure they have them "outside"
    the company somewhere, but since we all here work at DEC, and
    have this conference to communicate, I think "our" support group
    would be of more value to us.  As we could communicate to each
    other, after our group sessions. 
    
    I guess we should start by asking WHO would want to participate,
    where do you work, and where could we meet.  Being single Mom's
    it would probably have to be during our lunch hour, if we could
    all meet somewhere convenient for all.  I'm sure we could get
    a conference room somewhere.  Like maybe in Spit Brook??  Or
    wherever.  All options open.
    
    I'm in favor of this.  Anyone else??
    
    ...Jane 
           

    Actually, maybe we shouldn't even limit it to "single Mom's".
    Maybe we should make it a "working parent with children" support
    group?  What do you think?  I know a lot of working parents
    out there, that have wonderful partners, and they **too**
    seem to have the same stress as us single moms.  
    
    Having both, single, and married, folks in the group, could add
    to any ideas, support, helpful ideas, that we all could use.
    
    What do you think?
    
    ...Jane

    Anyone else out there have to go through the DOR/CSE to get their
    Child support?  Talk about an exercise in total frustration!!!  I've
    been a year now without any child support thanks to them!!! 
    Appearently, all they do is sit on their thumbs all day giving lip
    service, nothing more mind you!  I finally put pride aside and asked
    the twins father for some help, he was on the phone with the DOR for
    two days getting the runaround trying to get me some child support.
    They told him where to send the check etc, etc, and we thought finally
    some relief in sight, right??  Wrong, those bone-heads at the DOR sent
    MY Child support check to Welfare!!!!  It seems that since they sat on
    our case for over a year now the orginal court order has expired and
    since it has expired he is not obligated to pay child support for his
    two children?? So, without a court order any money he sends in goes
    to benifit those lucky people on welfare!! UGGGGGG!  I'm about to
    lose my mind over this.  Sorry to be using so many !!! I'm just so
    over stressed I can hardly stand it.  Here I am, working my butt off,
    trying to raise two nine year olds by myself, and I can hardly make
    ends meet.  In fact at this point ends aren't meeting.  I haven't been
    able to by groceries in two weeks, half of our bills are not paid yet.
    And the girls have very little in the way of fall clothing.  I really
    really needed that child support check!
    
    Whew.  I feel better now.. thanks for listening.
    
    Sharon
    

Sharon,

I'm confused.  If your children's father was willing to send some
money, why not just have him send it direct to you instead of 
putting 'the system' in the middle ?

Leslie

    re .26
    
    Because, without going thru DOR there is no legal record of payment and
    he's afraid that once we get into court for the new court order that
    DOR will go after him for not only what he owes me but also what he's
    already paid if he doesn't pay it through them.  Also, any court
    ordered child support is suppose to be paid through DOR, if it doesn't
    go through DOR then if at some point in the future he fails to pay
    support I have no proof that he didn't pay and therefore no legal leg
    to stand on.
    
    If I went on my own to court and got the court order, DOR would still
    have their nose in it.  
    
    It's a total scam as far as I'm concerned.  Would you believe that last
    year DOR made a profit for themselves collecting child support?
    
    Hope this clears things up for you, and I hope you never half to go
    through them for help!
    
    Sharon
    

    re .27 Wow, does this mean that the courts in your state don't recognize
    canceled checks as evidence of payment?  (I've never had to deal with
    any courts, so please pardon the naive question!)
    
    Leslie

Make that still two confused Leslie's.  I've not had to deal with DOR - who
are they ?  We pay child support to my husband's ex, but we send it all
right to her.  We file copies of the checks, and the bank (DCU) can 
supply us with any proof we need of the canceled checks.

Anyhow, I hope that you can get it all straightened out very soon.  It
must be a huge strain on you right now.  Perhaps someone in the 
DLOACT::BLENDED_FAMILIES conference can supply you with more info on 
how to deal successfully with DOR or how to work things out legally so 
that they don't have to be a middleman.

The other Leslie

    DOR/CSE = Department of Revenue/Child Support Enforcement
    
    If they were doing their jobs, their job is to go after non-custodial
    parents and intercept tax returns, get the child support monies to the
    children.  Unfortunately that's not what they are doing.  
    
    I wish it were as easy with the twins father to have him willingly pay
    me child support directly, but it's not.  He's bulked at the idea of
    having to pay child support for them since they were infants and didn't
    pay until the courts ordered him to.  Now, since all these court
    ordered cases are being taken over by the DOR it's a total mess.  The
    only reason he payed them without them coming after him is because he
    knows as well as I do that once we get our court order, he's going to
    be responsible for over a years worth of in-the-rears payments as well
    as weekly child support payments.  He will not sent them directly to
    me because in his mind it's not being logged as a child support payment
    and he could possibly have to pay it to me again through DOR.  I've
    asked him to send me a check and keep the cancelled check for court,
    he woln't.
    
    Sharon
    

    
    re: .30
    
    This sounds like a 20/20, 60 minutes story.  Maybe they can go after
    DOR for you.  You should call them up.
    

    Another reason for him to NOT pay directly and circumvent the court:
    
    The state where we live has a standard clause in their support decrees:
    
    "All payments... shall be delivered to the <state agency> by mail or
    personal delivery...  Any money paid to the support recipient except
    through this office shall be deemed a gift and shall not be considered
    payment in accordance with this settlement."
    

    After reading all of these replies, I guess I should consider myself
    lucky.  I too am a single parent.  I have a two year old son.  My son's
    father and I split up when our son was about 6 months old.  Right after
    our son turned a year old, his father moved down to Virginia.  So
    basically, I've been raising our son on my own since he was 6 months
    old.  The reason why I consider myself lucky is because even though my
    son's father and I split up on not the best of terms, he has been a
    very supportive father.  He sends me money every week (on his own, not
    through the courts) and if he doesn't have the money to send one week,
    he'll call and let me know and then send double the next week.  So far,
    he's been excellent about this.  Also, when our son turned two, he drove
    12 hours each way just to be there for his birthday.  He calls as much
    as he can, to see how our son's doing and to "talk" to him.  Sure, he
    may be 12 hours away, but at least I know that if I ever needed him to 
    be here for our son, I know that I could count on him. 
    
    Lori B.

    Hi Keith,
    
    I almost don't even know what to say.  
    
    Firstly, I am *so* sorry about what happened to your son.  I hope 
    you are all getting counseling.  I can't even begin to think about
    how I'd deal with something like that, but, deal with it we must,
    so we can help our children.  My thoughts and prayers are with you
    and your children.
    
    Next, I don't understand why you have to pay your ex-wife alimony
    unless she never worked and lacked the skills to get a job.  I
    would hope then that the alimony only had to be paid until she
    obtained some skills to find a job to support herself.
    
    Unfortunately, our legal system isn't perfect.  And I have to agree
    that it seems to favor women.  Maybe as more men seek and get custody,
    it will balance out.  I can only hope so...
    
    Lastly, we don't mean to exclude Single Dads.  *Any* parent has
    some of the stresses you mentioned...Single Custodial Parents have more of
    them...whether they're Moms or Dads.  So maybe that's what the topic
    of this discussion should be...Single Custodial Parents Need Help.
    Because we do.  I really believe Parenting is a 2-person full time
    job and when one of the parents is unavailable (or unwilling), it's
    *still* a 2-person full time job!  And when one person tries to do
    it all...Yikes!  
    
    Hang in there and let us know how things are going.  And know you
    are not alone.
      
    Noranne
     

    Hi Keith,
    
    I too am  wondering why you are paying her when you have the children. 
    But thank God you do.  My EX was never interested in having custody of
    our son.  He does pay the support but never on time.  I can't complain. 
    He is in Texas and I am in California so he doesn't see his son at all. 
    Acutally, he avoids it.  I never realy worried about it untill a few
    weeks ago when my son started asking me why he doesn't have a daddy to
    pick him up at school.  (he is 4)  I try not to speak ill of his father
    but I just told him that he lives far away and just can't right now. 
    It still hurts when I go to pick him up and he runs from me yelling
    that he wants his daddy to come pick him up.
    
    Sorry to get of track....
    
    Yes, the system isn't the best and life is hard on your own with a
    child.  I too have not dated in over a year.  I live my life for my
    son now and someday will get to live for myself.  I am just happy to
    see him healthy and happy for now.
    
    Virginia

>                     <<< Note 282.35 by SOLVIT::OCONNELL >>>
                       -< Single Dads need help too... >-

>    Lastly, we don't mean to exclude Single Dads.  *Any* parent has
>    some of the stresses you mentioned...Single Custodial Parents have more of
>    them...whether they're Moms or Dads.  So maybe that's what the topic
>    of this discussion should be...Single Custodial Parents Need Help.

    Noranne,

    Better yet, maybe it should just be "Single Parents" - I'm a single
    parent with no "other half", custodial or not, so I don't have the
    custodial battles, the alimony/child-support issues, but do have the
    same issues of trying to raise a child alone in this world today.


    Keith,

    I really feel for your dilemna.  I also want you to know that there
    *is* another side, although you weren't "lucky" enough to experience
    it - I have a relative who's wife walked out on him and two wonderful
    girls - don't know if it's still the case but I remember at one point
    she *was* paying child support to him !  So maybe there's some hope
    for some "equality" between the sexes in this stuff.

    Also, as one other noter said, I hope *both* you and your son are getting
    some counselling/support for what he had to go through......

    Take care,
    Debbi J

    Keith,
    
    Keep your hopes up.  I live in Maryland and my ex-sister-in-law (well
    almost) walked out on my brother and their two children ages 15 and
    13).  
    
    She is not only responsible for paying child support, but she has to
    pay half of all the bills that created together.  I think this is
    wonderful.
    
    My thoughts and prayers are with you and your children.  Maybe soon you
    all will turn the corner and good things will happen for all of you.
    
    
    
    Lillian

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes to
remain anonymous.  The noter's pseudonym for this string will be "Looking for 
Services."

     Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator


***********************************************************

    I am currently a single parent with one child under 1 and another on
    the way.   I have reached a financial snag, for which the means 
    outweighs the ways.  I have been a Digital employee for over 13 yrs.

    My situation----->I have inquired into the many services offered and
    have come back with the answer of "If you're making less than this amount
    of $$$, if you are on Welfare, or if you're not working" then we can help
    you.   

    My question??-----> Does anyone out there know of any services
    available for working single parents?  I have other friends who seem to
    be in similar situations.

    BTW, I live in Massachusetts.

    I am not too sure what it is you are looking for in the line of
    "services".
    
    Perhaps I could offer some advise, which is given to me by a friend in
    the midst of a very nasty divorce, has two children age 9 and 13, and
    due to physical reasons is unable to work more than 20 hours per week. 
    She has also recently had her home forclosed upon for taxes, the
    almost-ex said he had paid, and didn't.
    
    For women with limited income, and children under 5 there is WIC, which
    is a food program.
    
    My friend has recieved low cost legal services through the Worcester
    Bar Association.  She pays according to her income.
    
    There are low cost mortgage programs available, both for purchase and
    refinancing such as Farmer's Home (FHA), ask a good reputable real
    estate agent.  I can recommend one in the Worcester County area who is
    very knowledgeable in those programs (currently helping my friend)
    There is also the option of buying a piece of property at very low cost
    which is bank owned due to foreclosure.
    
    There is another program which matches women with children to other
    women with children in similar situations so you end up in sort of a
    low income roommate situation.  I have heard of it in and around
    Boston, but it may be state or federally based.
    
    I can communicate more specifics off line, if you would like it.
    By the way I had a conversation with my friend last night, she needed a
    little moral support because she is heading for another court hearing
    tomorrow and was feeling very nervous about it.  But what I am trying
    to say here is she too verbalized frustration about the fact that there
    is n't that much available if you are really willing to work to support
    your family.
    
    Some daycare centers, especially those church and community based ones
    will offer income based fees for their services.  The YMCA daycare is
    one I know that does this, as well as an income adjusted membership to
    use their facilities.  Sometimes the Y membership is as little as
    $10/month, which offers free child care at night.  They feel that if
    you can work out at the Y, and feel good both mentally and physically
    that the rest will fall into place.  You need to contact the director
    for an application for low cost membership. (the Central Branch in
    Worcester is my reference point, the daycare is based out of Westboro)
    
    Lyn
    

even if you're not a member of one, or of the particular religious affiliation.

I don't know the details of our particular church's program, but it helps
people who can't make ends meet - and I know they've provided assistance
in the past to families with a single working parent.  I suspect other churches
might run similar programs...  (I live in NH, BTW, which is why I didn't
name the church).

Best of luck dealing with a difficult situation.

- Deb

    I wish I could give you some really good advice on what to do.  When
    my daughter was first born I was sunk financially.  Her dad and I 
    were on the outs and I called everyone I could think of and the only
    answer I got was, "If you quit your job and go on welfare you'd be
    better off.." - This is from the state agency's that I called.  
    
    Fortunately I was able to live with my mom for a while until I got
    my finances and 'life' straightened out.
    
    The guidelines for WIC and Food stamps, daycare help etc are very very
    low in my opinion.  I can't remember the exact amounts but I think
    all the guidelines (NH) were, "If you make under 17,500..."
    
    
    If you make under 19,200.00 and have only one child you do qualify
    in NH for housing that goes by 30% of your income - The guideline
    may be a little higher for 3??  I think that is called Section 8?
    I'll see if I can find the numbers and the names of all the agencies
    etc that I called.  There are a lot of them.
    
    Good luck..If you want to talk off line, send me a note.  I know it
    can be hard - I was once there.
    
    Andrea
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    After reading the base note, I think this is the place to add this note. 
    I've been doing some searches to see if there's any mention of what I've
    been thinking of & how I've been feeling.  And although I've found some,
    they are quite old.  And so, I'll put this in, in hopes to get some direct
    e-mail responses.
    
    I'm a sinlge mom of 2 boys They are 6 & 7 yrs old.  I guess you could
    say that this is by choice, since the divorce was my idea.  I am VERY happy
    with my decision regarding the marriage & firmly beleive that it was the 
    best choice for the whole family.  And so I would NEVER change these facts. 
    However, being a very selfish & immature person that he is, my X-Huasband 
    has moved back to his home state of Wisconsin.  And so, I am litterally 
    all alone in the parenting role.  I do feel a bit cheated & angry that he 
    just ran away from all his responsabilities!  Child Support has been an 
    issue, but it seems to be getting better & I have been able to use the laws
    to my advantage.  I'm sure there will be other problems with this issue on 
    & off over the years though.
    
    Up until this point, my mother has been instrumental in helping me.  
    She allows me to have 2 nights (1 during the week & 1 on the weekends) a 
    week to have a seperate life to be a woman & single person.  This I believe
    to be one of the most important things that has allowed me to be a better 
    mother & person.  I truly feel that if a single parent doesn't have a 
    little life of their own apart from the children to explore & become more 
    of their own, then everyone suffers!!  My children know that I too need 
    some time & because of this, I feel it makes our home life that much better
    However, my mother has her own issues & therefore this may change soon.  
    She may be going on different work schedules that might make this a bit 
    difficult.
    
    I love going places with the boys.  New places for us to explore & have
    fun!  Aquariums & Zoo's are great!  Whatever I can think of & find that 
    would be new & exciting to us, I love to do it!
    
    I have a few really good single friends whom I love & have alot of fun
    with.  I am VERY gratefull for them, as they have really enriched my life &
    helped me to transition to this single lifestyle.  I thank GOD for them
    every day
    
    Now with all that being said, I have to admit that life can still be very
    hectic.  Just as the base noter said, all the day to day rigaramore can
    get VERY menautinous (sp?) and hard.  And although I love my friends very
    much,There's still that single parenting part that they just can't relate 
    with.  And so when I'm down about some of those types of issues, although 
    alot of times they are willing to listen, they can't always understand.
    When it's a friday night & I don't have a sitter, it's not always easy
    to get them to want to come over to watch a movie or just talk over a
    few drinks maybe.  And when they are going to an event, I know they truly
    mean it when they tell me to bring the boys, but I also know that it would 
    be awkward to be the only one with the kids.  I do have a few friends who 
    are married, but to be perfectly honest, I don't feel to be on the same 
    page with them at all! And so, I rarely do things with them.
    
    What I really would like, is to meet some single mothers who feel alot
    of the same things I am.  And hopefully with the same types of interests &
    around the same age groups.  I think it would be great to get to know each 
    other & for our kids too as well.  Maybe do things together with the kids 
    & possibly without.  And maybe after we felt to be comfortable friends, 
    even do like a barter system for babysitting trade off's.
    
    I'm sure someone's going to say try PWP.  Well, I did.  And although I
    met some nice people, I didn't seem to have the same commonalities, nor
    were around the same age as most of them.   And so I'd like to lend to you 
    a little description about myself & the boys & if there's any single mom's 
    out there that might like to chat & or meet,  send mean E-Mail.  Maybe this
    could be a good start to a much needed friendship & support line.
    
    I'm 29 yrs old.  And I'm a full time Digital emplyee.  I Love to go out & 
    listen to music & dance.  The majority of the music I listen too is Rock, 
    Live Blues & funk/Regae!  I'm not much into Jazz & C & W.
    
    I'm Very active. I like outdoor activitys & try to do alot of that with
    the boys.  I also like meeting people & doing new things.  It would be 
    great to meet a nice man & I have met some in the past, but no one special 
    yet.  Dating can be fun, but it can also be a pain.  Male bashing can be a 
    nice past time.. or just sharing blind date or otherwise storys! 
    (sorry guys)!
    
    The boys are into Street Hockey!  SOmetimes I feel like I'm living down
    there these days.  And they are very active kids too.
    
    I live in central mass.  I have lots of friends in Nashua & am thinking
    of moving up there by next summer.
    
    Anyway, I figured a little backround might help in determining a little
    more about if interests would be close.  I mean when you have some of the
    same interests it seems to make for a good friendship.
    
    Thanks for listening/reading.
    
    Lisa
     

    
    Hang in there, Lisa.
    
    
    Something that works for me:  When you get to feeling stressed over the
    day-to-day things, just look at it all as a challenge, a very special
    challenge, a challenge of love.  If you want to call it a challenge
    from your ex, or fate, or God, it doesn't matter, whatever works for
    you.  The important thing is that you know that you're meeting that
    challenge, and you are the winner!  Leave the bitterness and anger
    behind, because that's baggage that belongs to the loser.  Just treat
    the idea of raising your kids alone as a goal, like anything else in
    life, and know that you're one strong SOB that is meeting that goal 
    and then some.
    
    Being in something of a similar situation, I can honestly say that in 
    many ways I feel less stressed and more peaceful living as a single
    custodial parent than I did in my marriage (and I didn't end it).
    Maybe not in the day-to-day grind, but overall, in the big picture.
    It puts the priorities, most but not all having to do with the kids, 
    clearly in place.  
     
    As for the day-to-day grind, the strategy I use is to try to spend
    most of the time that I can with the kids and not the housework, and
    let most all of it pile up for 3-4 days at a time.  Then, after they're 
    in bed one night, crank up some music and work late into the night 
    doing it all: cleaning, laundry, ironing, dishes; all of it.  You 
    sleep like a baby that night, too.  And if you're not getting stressed 
    out worrying about getting stuff done each and every day, it can 
    actually be relaxing while you're just doing everything at once (now 
    go ahead and tell me that this is the way _everyone_ does it ;-).
    
    Glenn W.
      

Lisa,
     I am a single parent too and can identify with your feelings. It's great
that you do get to go out on a regular basis. I was thinking PWP myself as I am
a member. I'm not sure where you are so I don't know what chapter you tried.

     I have found that I meet the younger parents at the family events. Mostly
because they are in a similar situation to you. There are over 400 memeber in
my chapter of whom (I belive) about 90 have school age or younger children so I
see a lot of the older members at evening events. My daughter was away for part
of the summer and I went to seeral PWP events. Now that I have to get a sitter
I go to very few. I guess what I am saying is that I do know some younger
parents at the P but they are not the ones that you'd meet by attending the
RAPs or whatever.

      I hope you find what you are looking for.

Peter.

   but what does a single parent do who can't find and/or can't afford to
   hire babysitters/childcare on a regular weekly basis ?  i mean, as
   much as i'd love to get out with some adults, make new friends, *maybe*
   someday meet that "someone", i can't afford to pay additional evening
   childcare on top of the before/after-school i'm already paying !  people
   in the school/scout groups i'm associated with seem to think i'm just
   anti-social but you can only ask friends to help out so much/so often,
   i have no family to fall back on anymore and since my housemate moved
   out, the finances are so tight, it's hard to just do the activities with
   my son that keep him involved in scouts or do what's needed with school....

   sorry for the venting, but it's frustrating and i know it doesn't make
   necessarily make me a *better* parent when i'm starving for *adult*
   human companionship !

    .46
    
    It DOES get very frustrating.  Especially if you do have someone ask
    to do something you REALLY want to, and there is just no way you have
    sitter money.  You get so sick of "poor mouthing", "Gee, I really can't
    afford a sitter this weekend".  And getting the sitter!  I hate having
    to drag my daughter back out of bed to bring the sitter home afterward.
    
    As it stands, when I go over a friend's house, I bring Angeline along.
    But I wind up keeping her out late.  I'd like sometimes for people to
    come over my house, but I have only Angeline and my place is boring as
    heck for other kids if they're any older.  I don't have lots of toys
    and playthings for her.  
    
    It isn't the ideal life, to be sure.  Sometimes I just think of all
    the years, all the times, I went out clubbing and partying and had
    so many things to do, and I say "well that was my time for me then.
    I had my time and it was fun".  Is it entirely over?  I hope not, but
    I expect it's stalled for quite some time.  
    
    Money is the killer in it all.  YOu just can't afford a thing.  People
    say, "you just have to learn to make time for yourself. You need that
    time for you".  So easy said, so hard to be done.
    
    Aahhh, my own bit of venting. 
    							cj *->

    re: .46
    
    have you looked into joining a babysitting co-op?  Instead of money, 
    you use "coupons" to trade babysitting time with other parents.  It's
    worked out well for us - don't have to pay extra money for babysitting,
    I like the idea of parents watching my child (instead of teenagers),
    and when it's our turn to babysit - it's really not a big deal, the kids
    just play together so it doesn't take a lot of effort.  I am involved
    in one in the Westboro area.  You could probably find out about them
    thru newcomers clubs, churches, doctors offices in your area (or on
    here) 

    That sounds good to me, but still leaves me with the having to
    transport her around after my evenings through. 
    
    I need a sitter with her/his own transportation.  Ideally, one that
    won't kidnap my kid while I'm out ;-}
    
    						cj *->

    re .48/.49

    I have the same concern, cj - altho' my Matt is getting older, he
    still needs his sleep on school nights or he's a bear in the
    morning - and *because* he's older, I can't just pick him up and
    put him still half-asleep in the car !!!  he wakes up, gets up and
    then can end up *wide-awake* by the time we get back home again !!!

    oh, well, a few more years and he'll be able to be up later (maybe) 
    and left alone for a little while (I hope) !

   re: babysitting co-op
   
   That's the whole point of getting a co-op going... that is, you get
   someone who has their own transportation, someone who is also a parent
   so they are trustworthy and already know the ropes, so to speak, of
   taking care of kids... they can bring their own entertainment
   depending on whether they need to bring their own kids or not, and
   there's no money involved.  Its sort of a controlled barter system.
   You all start with a certain number of "tickets", and some rules
   around what is allowed and how many tickets it costs for certain
   services.   When you hire the services of another member, you pay with
   tickets.  When they hire someone else (or you), they pay with tickets.
   Its a way to trade sitting services and still keep it reasonably fair.
   
   I remember reading something in here about this a while back - you
   might want to scan some of the older notes, or maybe even one of the
   PARENTING archives to find where it is.
   
   fwiw,
   
   - Tom

Yes find ind sitters is hard. I have a list of sitters now but sometimes it's
just not long enough.

Paying for sitting is hard (often I pay the sitter more than I spend on an
evening out!). I can't see how a sitter circle would work out unless it was 
early evening stuff.

The sitters I use can usually get thenselves home. One lives next door,
another's parents usually fetch her and another has a car. If you are out with
a group of friends you acn always ask one of them to take your sitter home for
you.

The best is when Rowena goes for a sleep-over, but that hasn't happened in a
while.

Well - I want to go out Saturday night so I'd better start calling sitters!

Peter.

    So, if the sitter has their own kids they come along (if the sitter is
    a single person) or stay home (if they are part of a couple) for the
    babysitting night? While I'm not a single parent, it seems like this
    option doesn't work for a single parent (either as the sitter or the 
    sittee) If the issue is getting adult time w/o jostling the kid's
    bedtimes, then the only way a babysitting co-op would work for a single
    parent is if daytime (weekend) babysitting was an option. Right?
      

    
    
    	I agree, I don't think baby sitting co-ops work well for
    	single people but they really don't work well for couples
    	either.
    
    	A friend of mine and I discussed it but
    	so far have not bothered to exhange times.  If I was
    	babysitting for her, I'd have to leave Lauren home with
    	my husband and go to her house.  And for what?  Just to
    	save a few bucks?  I'd rather hire a babysitter and not
    	give up time with my family to baby sit someone elses child.
    
    	The other option would be, bring my family along.  Ok...
    	fine, lets say I do that and I put Lauren to sleep in
    	a portacrib that my friend lends me.  Well, I have to
    	disrupt her when my friend comes home and take Lauren home.
    
    	The last option is (and personally, the best in my opinion),
    	my friend brings her child to my house, I put the child to
    	sleep in a portacrib at my house, my friend has her night
    	out, then comes to pick her child up and take her home.  She
    	had the fun, now she can deal with getting a cranky child
    	back to sleep!  I expect she would rather hire the baby sitter
    	in this case.
    
    	So... you see why co-ops really don't work well for anyone
    	unless bedtimes are not involved.
    
    	Karen
    

    
    I think I'm in the minority here (and can't convince CJ to try it yet
    (-;), but I think the answer is ... let the kid sleep over!!  What's
    the big deal?  Let the parent sleep over too .... 
    
    So, the way it works, is you have a co-op.  You drag your kid to the
    other person's house.  You either hang out with them, and make it a
    slumber party, or you go out.  If you go out, you come back to the
    "coop" house, crash on the couch, and deal with yourself and the kid in
    the morning.  
    
    ???
    
    Any takers on that one??
    
    I personally would rather crash on the living room floor than worry
    about getting my kids up and out in the middle of the night, and then
    back to bed (especially with a 2yr old!).  
    
    If you have a guest room, then that works out perfect!! 
    
    What's the opinion on that??

    re. -1
    
    You get up too early!
    
    		:-)  cj *->

    If you're trading babysitting time with friends, why not let your kids
    sleep overnight at their house, and you pick them up in the morning? 
    We're doing that Thanksgiving weekend (High school reunion) with some
    friends.  Then we reciprocate.  And the kids have fun because they all
    get along and keep each other busy.
    
    I can't wait to sleep until 8:00 AM!!
    
    Julie

    re : last few with "let the kid sleep over"

    doesn't really work well, especially when you have to worry about getting 
    the kid ready for school the next day, you have to go to work and all
    the usualy other "stuff" has to be taken care of.......

    I'm really not trying to be negative here, but I think I've gone thru,
    tried or ruled out just about every option other than (a) having the
    extra cash and (b) finding a sitter who can drive him/herself home
    afterward.  Once in a while the "let the kid sleep there" works but
    it's usually for a *really* special weekend [and for me that's pretty
    much been restricted to doing long work-hours over a weekend either for
    real work or at a school-related function - not real FUN-special !!!!]
    and ends up with *more* guilt on me rather than freedom because I 
    have to ask and feel like I'm putting friends out.........

    
    
    I'm not single - which means I don't go out except on very rare 
    occasions 8^).  However, we are very fortunate to have a daycare
    provider who is more than happy to take our kids on evenings and
    weekends (including overnight) if we wanted.   She says she truly
    enjoys the company as she lives alone (divorced with grown kids).
    Now I know that not everyone has this option, but maybe if you 
    think about people who you know that are in a similar life stage
    maybe it could be a win-win situation.   As far as the money is
    concerned, Mary has never charged us for this extra time because
    of probably a couple of reasons - we pay her a flat rate 52 weeks
    a year and never try to cut her pay because we pick up the kids
    early or take misc vacation days and probably more importantly,
    my husband helps her out with a lot of things around the house
    (minor fix up stuff).   The idea here would be to think of *other*
    services that you could trade with someone.  
    
    Also, for those with older children, what about swapping sleepovers
    with friends?    i.e. you have an opportunity to go out when your
    child is sleeping at a friends (which is something they love to 
    do anyways) and then you reciprocate by having their child over. 
    
    Just a couple of ideas....cj/

    I trade with a neighbor, and the kids do spend the night.  However, we
    only do this on weekends if it is going to be later then 9:00 or so. 
    Much easier than shuffling kids who are 1/2 asleep in the night in and
    out of cars.
    
    I am partnered, but when I was single, I ran much the same deal with
    friends who were also single.
    
    meg
    

    I am a single Dad with 4 kids ages 10,8,7,and 2. I recently had to kick
    the 2-year old's mother out after I found out she was having an affair
    with an old flame. This was my second failed marriage. I am the primary
    custodial parents of the three older ones. When I broke up with my
    first wife (due to self destructive behavior on her part that I needed
    to shelter myself and the kids from) I was taking care of 2 in diapers
    and the oldest wasn't even in school. I was able to set up a network of
    close friends and relatives that helped me out. full time day care
    wiped me out financially. 1/2 my income went into it. 
    
    Today I am living in another state from my old "support" system. moved
    down here only several months aI don't have a support system in place.
    only a temporary one. I am loosing an opportunity to buy a house and am
    forced to move out of a neighborhood that I was just getting
    comfortable with. I have a friend right now who is helping me out while
    I work but he has some serious limitations on his parenting abilities.
    Its like he's just a body there. I work the overnight shift 12 hours a
    night 3 days one week and 4 days the next. I talked to my boss about
    going to the day shift version of this and he seems to be receptive
    about it. Atleast it will be easier to find child care. 
    
    I have my hands full. I have my wallet empty. I am at a loss as what to
    do. Everyday is a struggle but its well worth it for the kids. I have
    little time for myself right now and realize that one day I will have
    that time. I just have to be patient.
    
    I could use some advice, empathy or whatever. I put in a request in
    2.503 for daycare. BUt it scares me. I am already taking a 15% cut in
    pay to drop down to a day shift position. The costs are phenominal. HOW
    IS ONE TO GET AHEAD IN THIS? The costs are bad enough for one but for
    all 4? Give me a break. Summer is arround the corner all 4 wiil be home
    all day.
    
    I hate it.
    
    I am frustrated.
    
    (no-life) George
    
    (thanks I needed to vent)
    

    
    I'd like to recommend that you continue to work the night shift
    for the summer and find a high school or college student that would
    be willing to sleep over those nights that you are working.  It
    wouldn't be much baby sitting for them and they could still work
    a day job if they wanted and it wouldn't be much financially out of
    pocket for you.  Then, during the day, get another student to
    baby sit so you can get a few hours sleep.
    
    Once the fall starts, then look into a day shift.  At that point, you
    would only have one child needing full time day care and it would
    definately cost less.
    
    If you are definately going to the day shift now, then consider a
    college student for the days you work... it might cost less.
    
    Good luck... it really sounds like you have your hands full.  Since
    you don't get child support from either ex-wife, is there any
    opportunity to get financial aid of some sort?  For example, food
    stamps or subsidized housing?
    
    Take care!
    
    Karen
    

    
    George,
    
    Gosh,  I totally sympathize with you.  Your kids are lucky
    to have someone who truly cares about them though and, yes,
    it will get better.  
    
    I don't have a lot of advice, since I only have one child,
    and can't image what I'd do with 4, but one thing you could
    do to give yourself a break is to get your kids enrolled
    in a Boys and Girls Club if you have one near.  It costs
    $5/year for enrollment.  The one down the street from us
    is open from 3:00 pm to 9:00 pm on weekdays, not sure about
    weekends and during the summer they open in the mornings. 
    They have a lot of activities for the kids and they are
    great for giving parents a break.
    
    Good Luck, George,
    Pam

	George,

	You could ask your church, even if you just moved there and don't
	really no anyone at all.  I'm sure they could offer you some suggestions
	of programs that are in place in the community or that they even have
	in the church.  Might be a good way to find someone to help out, 
	maybe they have a list of kids in highschool or college that can
	helpout.  Also call Town Hall and the highschools and colleges in
	your area, they may have programs you can get the kids involved in
	for the summer to free up some of your time.

	You're in a very tough situation, what a great father your kids have!
	
	Good luck to you and your children,
	Karen T.

    George,
    
    About the expense of daycare and getting ahead - remember it doesn't
    last forever!
    
    When we were paying $800-$900/month for daycare, it seemed like it
    would never end!  But my father pointed out that there was "a time for
    socking money away" and that this wasn't it!  Sure enough, now our
    daycare costs are limited to summer and are much less!
    
    While you work on getting a new supportive environment and finding
    balance in your life, think of the financial side of it as short-term -
    it will take care of itself with time!
    
    

    George,
    
    WOW!!  That's a rough situation!!  I have 3 kids, essentially "alone", 
    but at least the older 2 are with their dad 1/2 the time, so I get some
    break.  I do the same deal with all the financial support, and it's not
    easy.  But you do make it through over the years.  I'm almost getting
    back on my feet now, but it's been a tough 5 years or so.
    
    I'd second the suggestion to stay on 3rd shift.  I've always wanted to
    work 3rd, thinking that at least I'd have some more time with the kids,
    and the extra 15% could help a LOT!
    
    Check with your local Boys' and Girls' Clubs of America.  The one in
    Nashua is $15.00/yr.  Days that there is school, they are open from
    1:00 pm - 9:00 pm, and transportation is provided for those that need
    it.  Dinner is served 4:30-5:30, for $1.00, OR if the kid chooses to
    work helping the staff in the kitchen or library, dinner is free (if
    they get school lunch free, you can get dinner free also).
    
    When there's no school (summer, vacations, holidays), they're open from
    9am-5:00pm.  During the school year, there's an "early bird" program,
    where you can bring the kids as early as 7:30, for some nominal amount
    of money ($2.00 comes to mind).  During summer vacation last year, they
    had early bird and late bird, and it cost ~$15-20.00/wk, and extended
    the hours to include 7:30am-6:00pm (maybe 7:00pm?).  
    
    Lunch is served in the summer, and depending on the funding, is either
    $1.00 or free (last year it happened to be free).  OR the kids can
    bring their own food.  You're expected to provide snacks for the kids,
    or give them money for the vending machines.
    
    There's **TONS** of stuff for the kids to do in Nashua.  The facility
    includes gyms, games rooms, a pool, a library, an art room, and
    activities are constant.  
    
    In Nashua you must be between the ages of 8 and 18 to join.  NO
    EXCEPTIONS!!  Registration is monthly, and requires that the child come
    to an orientation to learn the rules of the club.  If the child will be
    8 on say, June 20th, they can start on June 1st.  
    
    There's lots of other information to be aware of, so you'll want to
    call, but it's a good alternative.
    
    You may consider posting a notice at the local college, or in ads,
    looking for a roommate who'd be willing to keep an ear out for the
    kids, while you work.  If you could find a place big enough, I'd think
    that there's probably more than a couple of single parents who might be
    interested in some sort of swapping arrangement.  
    
    I don't know if "WIC" offers anything to men, I suspect it should,
    since it's women, INFANTS and CHILDREN, so at least for the kids, you
    should be able to get bread and milk and cheese/pb, that sort of stuff.
    
    And, take a look around, and see if there's stuff that you can sell
    too.  I know it sounds odd, but if there's things that you don't really
    need, not only could they bring in some much-needed cash, but they also
    may help reduce some of the clutter-stress.
    
    Good luck with it all - it's not easy, but it IS doable!!
    
    Me and my three sons ...
    

Hi, George.  Are the moms paying child support at all?  If not, they should
be.  If they are, perhaps you should re-evaluate how much they are paying,
and it needs to go up for a time.  If you were trying to keep it low for a 
time for the first wife, for instance, to get on her feet again, perhaps she
can contribute a higher amount now.  It is going for the kids, after all,
not for you.

Good luck!

       Carol

    Hello people,
    
    Just want to give an update on what I was able to do being the single
    dad with 4 kids.
    
    I called the Work Life connections (1-800-635-0606) Program. They took
    down some information in regards to my situation and needs. They looked
    up in their data base and located several refences within a 2-mile
    radius of my home. Contacted them and explained my needs and got quotes
    from them. Retutrned to me with options. 
    
    I am now working a compressed work week on days. Sunday, Monday,
    Tuesday and every other wednesday from 7am to 7 pm. I found a lady that
    is a liscensed daycare provider in her home that was willing to take
    the 2 year old from 6:30am to 7:30 pm  Mon, tues, (and opposite wed's)
    for $25/day. 
    
    For the three older ones, I got them enrolled in a day camp and applied
    for financial assistance. I was looking at $45/week per child plus 15$
    a day each is there for the extended program. I got that reduced to
    15.50 per child per week. The extended coverage is a minimal expense
    considering its only for 2 days one week and 3 the next.
    
    The balance of time that the kids need between day camp and me working
    is taken up at the lady's home who sits the 2 year old. She is also
    willing to transport the older ones back and forth provided they are in
    the extended program. Additional cost is 30/day for all three, plus 10
    to cover traveling.
    
    Sunday's are covered by a friend who is currently unemployed and
    seeking work. I have a back up sitter and other friends that help out
    too on Sunday.
    
    Its coming together!!!! Amazing what can happen when one reaches out
    for help.  Thanks everone for the suggestions!
    
    George
    
    
    (btw... this fall sundays will open up for the lady who watches them
    during the week and she'll be able to take them then as well)
    
     

    WOW! I'm dizzy just reading that!  Good luck.  I imagine it
    has been a good deal of relief to get that much straightened
    out!
    
    					cj *->

    re -.1 
    
    RELIEF is right... Now I am learning how to juggle, walk AND chew
    bubble gum at the same time.
    
    

    re: -.1, et al -
    
    WOW!  What a Dad you are!  Many men that I know can have a hard time 
    asking for help from any source, whether it be a financial break from 
    the day camp or a friend to babysit, or advice from peers.  Kudos to
    you for being willing to do whatever it took.  
    
    I don't know what things are like in the east, but I do know that in
    the west, many of the school districts sponsor extended day care
    programs, which also have multiple child and financial assistance
    discounts available.  This may be a better option for the older kids
    this fall, so they can have interaction with peers and make/keep friends.  
    
    I absolutely second the motion of the prior noter who said that you
    should look in to your rights as to child support from the mom(s). 
    Women have as much obligation as men to support the children they no
    longer live with.  It is completely unfair that you shoulder this
    burden without proper assistance from the mom(s).  In fact, even if you
    are currently receiving support, if your recent move was in to a more
    expensive area and to the advantage of the children (not just for your
    job, but a better neighborhood, schools, etc.), then you may find 
    that you have quite a leg to stand on.  
    
    There are several father's rights org's willing to assist you, so you
    might not even have to worry about paying some high priced lawyer to
    handle this for you.  I'd bet you can find info about the dad's org's
    on the internet, too.
    
    Regards, and good luck!  Note us again if you need a cyber-shoulder to
    lean on, we're always here...
    
    M.