Conference moira::parenting

    Hi,
    
    I currently work a 20 hour week here at Digital, and I love it.  I 
    feel very fortunate that I work in a group that has a need for
    part-time folks and values us (total of five!) as employees.
    
    Originally, I too wanted to work 30 hours.  I put a proposal together
    with some options and presented it to my then manager.  There were
    about 7 different 'schedules' that I wrote down and presented to him.
    I scheduled this meeting while I was out on maternity.
    
    Having been in mgmt, I know that the more time you have to work on
    options the better.  SO!  Go for it, put together a PLAN, provide
    as many options as you can.  Your own idea of using vacation is good
    but understand that you are probably a very important core part of the
    group you support.  You have to demonstrate in your plan that you
    understand that and are available at the times when your groups needs
    you most.
    
    Don't be afraid to present the idea, it's becoming more and more
    accepted to modify schedules!  
    
    Good luck!
    
    
    
    
    
    

    I work a flexible schedule. I second the suggestion of putting together
    a formal proposal. The proposal should include the following:
    
    o Different work schedules (Seems less like an ultimatium and more like
      a proposal)
    o The amount of work you could handle (I am a writer, I stated that I would
      carry a full work load) or the tasks you would be responsible for.
      Use your job description. 
    o My means for working at home (doesn't really apply to you)
    o My working hours at home (again doesn't apply)
    o My home phone number
    o My philosophy toward my job (I was willing to work extra hours
      now and then to complete a specific task).
    o How often the arrangement was to be reviewed (every three months)
    
    Use the proposal to cover any concerns your particular boss might have. 
    Do not make this agreement informally. Also, don't wait until the week
    you come back to talk about this arrangement. I presented the proposal
    the week I went out and met with my boss a month later to work out
    the details.
    
    By the way, if you plan to work at home, be there when you say you will
    be. People always seemed surprised to hear from me on Friday morning
    but those are my scheduled work hours.
    
    Good luck!
    

    I work in a field sales office, and we have a lot of new mothers here. 
    Our management has just allowed the first two women to work part time
    in what are typically very time intensive jobs - sales and sales
    support.  They sat down and worked out a different schedule in each
    case. One works 3 days/week.  The other I just found out about today.
    
    I think it is being addressed more and more these days, but without a
    clear policy, it still comes down to you and your manager.  I agree
    with the idea of putting a plan together and discussing it with your
    manager.  The more you can do to make it easier for your manager to say
    yes, the better off you will be.  For instance, explain in some detail
    how the work will get done, who can cover for you when you are out,
    etc.
    
    One last comment.  I disagree with your idea of using up vacation time
    to "prove" that part time is sufficient.  A decision should be made
    before you return to work and then stick with it.  The vacation
    provides a bit of a crutch - let's your manager delay agreeing to your
    plan, and leaves you up in the air for the long term.
    
    Good luck.  I hope it works out for you.
    
    Mary        

    <Entered by moderator for author who wants to be anonymous.>
    <This is by the author of .0                               >
    
        re .3
    
    That is a really good point to consider about the vacation time, that I
    didn't think of. (See that's why I asked).
    
    I have been thinking alot about this, and I have been working on a
    formal proposal to present to my management, but I just wanted to make
    sure that I'm not overlooking anything.
    
    I do think that my management is very supportive and would be open to
    alternatives.  I have discussed this with my husband, in depth, I just
    think that I need that extra unbiased input from others.
    
    One of the biggest things, is that I am more than willing to be
    flexible, I do realize that I am paid to do a job, and it will get
    done.  Even if it means extra hours, when needed or working from home
    (75% of my job is system work).
    
    Thanks, for such quick responses... keep the suggestions coming....
     
    

    I have been R30 for four years, since returning to work after
    a six-month maternity leave for the birth of my first. I spend
    3 days at the office and do six additional hours at home (usually
    nights and weekends).
    
    Yes, make a clear plan with options, and be flexible. No, don't
    offer your vacation time unless they are really reluctant and
    you get desperate. Do stick to your chosen schedule once you 
    settle on it. And finally, be careful not to do 40 hours/week
    for 30 hours pay! I've seen it happen -- quick route to burnout.
    
    Good luck! We part-timers are rooting for you.
    
    Lucy

    I approached my immediate management about 30 hours a week and received
    a negative response. I was very disappointed. The reasons given were 
    that in this time of layoffs, losing those 10 hours a week of work was
    too much for the group. I think after reading this I'll try the plan
    approach and see if I can sway some minds. I also have not elevated 
    it yet, since the adoption is still some time away (and layoffs loom
    within the month). It is nice to hear there are flexible groups out
    there, and supportive environments. This branch of engineering seems
    to be tightening, but it may be just my group. Grrr!
    
    Cyn

    In the various plans you present, why not try one for working at home
    and keeping your R40 status?  Reply #2 had some VERY good points.  (And
    several others did to).  The important thing is to GET WHATEVER PLAN IS
    WORKED OUT IN WRITING!  I did some negotiations and wrote up the 
    agreed plan - 20 hours in the office/20 hours working at home - I had
    this plan signed by my immediate manager and his manager.  As several
    others have stated, be flexible - have alternate arrangements for child
    care if you absolutely HAVE to be in the office during your normal "at
    home" times.
    
    I also agree with NOT using up your vacation to prove your plan will
    work - also (and I'm not AT ALL sure about this) I *think* you need to
    use your vacation time prior to parental leave (I did but really can't
    remember if this was a REQUIREMENT or just because I wanted to get
    paid for as long as possible!).
    
    Good luck - flexible schedules are the future and the more people that
    

    .7 continued....
    
    the easier it will be for those who follow...

    
    re: .6
    
    You may want to check into working 5 days, 6 hours per day, instead
    of say taking one day off a week. That way you are there in the office
    "every" day...but you just leave at say 2pm. That way you can get your
    work done, and you might not be as missed. 
    
    Chris
    

    You do NOT have to use up all of your vacation before taking a unpaid
    parental leave. I took a parental leave and did not use up all of my
    vacation. I wanted to have some vacation time left, just in case.
    
    Eileen

    I second the caution about not doing 40 hours of work for 30 hours
    of pay.  (Or in my case, for 20 hours of pay...)  If you think the
    full amount of work really has to be done, consider alternate work
    schedules.  
    
    I know a woman who works four 10-hour days a week, thus giving
    herself an extra day off.  She says she barely notices the extra
    two hours a day. 
    
    Is your main goal really to have you home with the baby, or to
    have the baby home with its family?  If the latter, Neil and I
    have found a split shift works well -- he goes to work early in
    the morning, I stay home with the kids and come in late.  He then
    goes home early in the afternoon, so David's only in daycare for
    about 6 hours, sometimes less, and I work until about 5:30.
    
    --bonnie

    Addendum to .5 (can you tell I'm a tech. writer?!)
    
    I remember something that I agreed to when I was negotiating for my
    part-time schedule. Because my upper management was reluctant, but my
    immediate supervisor was very supportive, we agreed that we would each
    track my situation quarterly for the first year (I think). This seemed
    to assuage some of mgmt's fears.
    
    Every three months we would exchange mail messages (so that it was in
    writing) where we assessed whether there were any problems caused by my
    schedule. There never were; the messages quickly took this form:
    
    Me to boss (in mail): Any problems with my schedule this past quarter?
    Her: Nope.
    
    But at least I had it in writing, showing that it worked over time.
    I'm on my fourth boss since then and have had no problems.
    
    Lucy
    

I think it all depends upon your manager.

I go out on leave in 5 weeks for my second child.  This time, I'm coming back
at 30 hours, for an indefinite period of time.  (Depends on how I'm doing,
how Digital is doing, etc).

I didn't write a formal proposal, but I have a very good manager.  We just 
sat down and discussed what I wanted to do, (30 hours for some number of 
months at the minimum).  He asked how I wanted to
arrange the hours - I plan to work 5 six hour days approximately 8:30 to 3:30
(I want a lunch hour so I can go breastfeed).  This was agreeable with him,
as people who need to talk to me can do so during every working day, and I will
be available during prime meeting hours.

If you can approach your manager informally before writing the proposal, you may
be able to find out what management concerns are with your job.  Is the number
of hours?  How many you are physically present?  How long you want to do this?
What if s/he must increase your hours to 40; will you quit or increase your
hours?   Then you can tailor your proposal, and the chances of approval increase.

I think getting it in writing is a very good idea.  Even tho we worked out
the details, yesterday he asked me what it was we agreed to.  He simply forgot;
it wasn't a problem or a crisis, so he just didn't think about it again.  So,
I will be reiterating the agreement in writing, just to make sure.  I like the
checking on the schedule the person in .12 did.  I think I'll suggest that, too.

Good luck.

Pat

I've been back to work just a few months ( my baby is
4 months old now) and have had many of the same thoughts
about working part time.  For those of you that are doing
it, how do you manage to work from home if you are also
taking care of a child (or children) ?  I have the flexibility
in my current position to work at home once in a while if needed,
but I wouldn't be able to get much done unless the baby was 
napping (which would only be a few hours a day).

Also, how do you feel working part time has affected your
career progression ?  Is it possible to move up the
ladder while working part time ?

Denise

P.S. I'm really glad the the author was able to have an anonymous
     note posted to get this discussion going.  

    With both my kids, I was able to work at home a lot when
    they were infants.  For the first 3 months, it worked out
    OK.  Since they did sleep a lot.  But when they grew older,
    they slept less and needed more attention, I found myself couldn't
    get much work done at all.  I stopped working at home when both
    of them turned 6 months old.  Now with a 4 & a 2 yr old, the only 
    time I can log into my system is after 9pm, when both of them are in
    bed.  I cann't get anything done during the day since my
    4 yr old doesn't nap anymore.
    
    Wendy

    I have the following work at home schedule. I am available on Fridays
    mornings. I am at home if someone needs to call me and I make calls
    to people at work to ask questions. Marisa is running around and
    generally playing. At times it is wild (I have to go poop, Mommy!) 
    but generally people are amused at the antics at my house.
    
    Saturday mornings I dial-in and work while Joe and Marisa run errands
    and go grocery shopping. My husband gets a few free hours over the
    weekend to work also.  Sometimes it seems we work everyday but it is
    worth the flexibility I have.
    
    Donna

A few years ago, when I was a CC Manager, one of my administrative
people came to me and asked to be moved from R40 to R30.  Her reasons
had to do with time she felt she needed to spend with her child.
We worked it out so that she worked 6 hours a day, and as I recall,
the hours on one or two days were different than on others.  As long
as the group's workload can be accomplished in 10 less hours, it
should, IMHO, be no problem.  You will be more productive in the
30 hours than if you are forced to work 40 (or none) against your
will.

I would think that in these days of voicemail and A1, that it is not
as critical to have a secretary on duty from 8:15 to 5:00 as it 
used to be.

Frank

       Believe it or not, there is a part-time notes conference.  It is
    ICS::PART-TIME.  It has been pretty inactive recently, but you might
    find some useful information there. Laurie Margolies (ICS::MARGOLIES)
    has worked in personnel on part-time issues and is a good source of
    information also.  Once in a while she had done workshops on part-time/
    alternative work schedules, that you can keep your eye out for, or ask
    her to do again.
    
       Hope this helps.
    
       Brenda (R32)

    I never try to work from home when my kids are up and around (notice
    the time on this reply?!) except to take/make phone calls and generally
    people aren't fazed by what they hear in the background. My husband
    does the same thing. I hope it will become commonplace someday to hear
    kids in the background saying "i hafta go poop" or whatever.
    
    Lucy

    In case this hasn't been mentioned in the replies here (haven't read
    'em all), also be prepared to plan-propose-convince your co-workers
    about your PT status.  If they're not happy with your not being around
    all the time, it will adversely affect all of you.  This happened to me
    in my last job.  I'm more careful now.  You've always got to convince
    people "what's in it for them" for example, you're always "on-call"
    for them PT, whereas FT that might not be the arrangement.
    
    I too work quite a bit from home, on-line and on my laptop.  My 2 year
    old thinks it's great fun and "helps me work on 'puter."  I don't find
    the chaos distracting (hey, I've worked for DEC for 10 years), BUT I
    don't make phone calls while she's awake.  I do find the background
    noise lessens my credibility as a "serious" worker with both management
    and co-workers.
    
Tara (R30)    
    

    <Entered by the moderator for author (of .0) who remains anonymous.>
    
    Wow !  I can't believe all the replies, it has been a busy couple of
    days, I've been covering for a co-worker, working on a presentation, so
    I haven't had the free time to note.  So I have extracted the replies,
    and will definately go through them this weekend.  Thanks for all the
    input...

    Just to let you know, a friend of mine at here, mentioned that a while
    back a "Women at Work Seminar" was done on "Alternative Work Options". 
    I picked up a copy from our library yesterday, and plan on watching
    that this weekend.  I'll let you know all know how it is.

    Well back to work....

           
    I am planning to cut back to 32 hours after the birth of my second
    child (no, not pregnant yet).  They way I plan it will be one of
    two ways
    
    1.  4 days in the office, 8 hours/day
    
    2.  3 days in the office, 9 hours/day, 5 hours at home during naps,
        evenings, or weekends.
    
    I'm really leaning towards the second option because I'd like my
    children to spend less time at daycare and more time with family.  
    However, I wonder if my children wouldn't be better off in daycare
    given the type of parent I am.  I am the nurturing parent.  I love
    to cuddle, read books or sing songs.  I really do not like to play
    and find that 15 minutes is about max for me when I'm alone with her.
    For some reason, I play better with her when my husband is around,
    perhaps because we are all having fun together.
    
    Yesterday, home with Lauren gave me a good idea of what my 2 days 
    off would be like each week.  I would say that I gave her, on average, 
    about 10 minutes of my dedicated attention (ie. playing with her) 
    per hour.  The rest of the time, I did other things, from chores to
    exercise, to me time.  Meanwhile, Lauren was quite bored and constantly
    begging for my attention which I doled out in 5 minute spurts.  I
    didn't ignore her, but I didn't play with her for 12 hours straight
    either!  I just can't do that!  Am I giving her enough attention?  
    
    I realize that I will be busier with two children, at least until the
    second is old enough to play with Lauren.  I just wonder if they 
    would be better off at daycare where they are entertained all day long.
    I would definately get involved in a weekly playgroup on my days off
    and probably do other social things, bringing the children along.
    
    Am I a lousy parent?  Sometimes I feel like I am.  I certainly am not
    the sort of parent who could stay home full time.  Last night, after
    dinner, I played with Lauren for a while, then went to the kitchen 
    to do dishes (my husband was not home).  Lauren played by herself for
    1 minute, then followed me, clung to my legs, and sobbed Mommy, Mommy.
    I couldn't take it anymore so I went out onto the porch and sat out 
    there while she cried on the other side of the door for a few minutes.
    I finally relented when she stuck her finger down her throat and
    started gagging.  Granted, she is worse at the end of the day, but I
    had just spent an hour with her, playing and eating dinner.  I got so
    frustrated at her clinging that I had to get away for a second.  
    
    I considered entering this note anonomously....  I really feel like
    a jerk.
    
    Karen
    

    Here is a suggestion - why not hire a teenager for those hours that you
    work at home.  She can play with the children while you get work done -
    the kids are entertained - you can takes breaks from your work and give
    them some quality time.
    A local high school kid for a couple of days from 2:30 - 5:00 would
    give you the time to get your work done.  You won't have to cart the
    kids to daycare either.
    
    Nancy 
    

    Karen,
    	You are not a jerk and you are not a lousy parent.  By my 
    standards, you are quite normal (then again, maybe we are both
    jerks :-) ).
    
    	I don't see anything un natural about needing to get away
    from the kid(s) once in a while.  Unfortunately I've found that
    the more you try to get away the worse they can get.  In my case
    its better to put on a happy face, give them all the attention they
    want and take your own time once they've gone to bed.  Its not easy !
    I have an almost 3 yr old and a 7 mo old.  After being at daycare
    all day that want Mommy !  
    
    	I think in terms of spending the 2 days a week off with your
    daughter, it might help to have activities planned so that something
    is always happening.  And if you really need a break, put on a video
    to keep her entertained.
    
    Good Luck !
    
    Denise
    

Karen,

I'm always feeling guilty that I'm not giving Ben (20months) enough
attention and that I should be a better parent.

I've worked a 3 day week since I came back to work when Ben was 4months.
I always have big plans about the time that we'll spend together and how 
constructively we'll spend it. It never works out quite how I planned.

I can't understand that after a full day on my own with him, I'm always 
desperate to hand him over to his Dad, but it's always the case.
I think part of the trouble is that there's always something that needs
doing in the house, like the dishes, and an adult mind is not designed to
play kids games ALL day. 

Ben also gets whiney and clingy when I try to do things that don't involve
him. There are some days when we do things together - hoovering, dusting,
emptying the dishwasher. Other days I just want to get on with it myself -
I then have to either let him whine, put him in his high chair with playdough, 
or wait until his afternoon nap and whiz round. I'm dreading the day when he 
doesn't need his daytime nap.

The same goes for times when I just want to have a cup of coffee in peace, or
read or watch a bit of TV. This is also a no no with Ben.

Some things that save me during the day are -

o visiting other mums with same age kids
o walking to the shops/swings
o swimming
o having other mums and kids round
o getting out in the garden
o watching a video

None of them are as constructive/educational as the things I'd planned but 
they save us both.

Even though the clingyness drives me nuts some days, I've never regretted
staying home two days a week. I think three days at daycare is still a lot of
stimulation, and even though I'm not sure what it is, I'm sure 
he gets some benefit from being home with mum.

Heather

    Heather you aren't alone in this.  Frank elected to become full-time
    parent when IBM went through its downsizing, about 6 years ago.  By the
    end of the day with a baby in the house, he is more than ready to hand
    her to me and take off upstairs for some much needed regrouping time. 
    (he is a model railroader and "the mistress", his train layout is in
    the upstairs room)
    
    I tried full-time parenting with my oldest for the first years, and I
    know I felt the same way by the end of that year.  Lolita's father
    spent one summer break at home taking care of her, while I went to
    school, and he fest the same way at the end of the day.  
    
    I think this is human, not anything more.  We need adult time and time
    without children, just as much as we need "kid-time" and they need us.  
    
    meg  

    Karen,
    
    Nope - not abnormal at all!  You might find another approach works
    differently.  And a change of attitude is probably in order if you're
    going to be staying home.  You described how I used to be when my
    oldest 2 were younger.  THEN I eventually figured it out! (fortunately
    before the 3rd was born).
    
    What you described, is what I'll call (for lack of a better term)
    'reactive' parenting.  She whines, you react.  She calls Mommy, you go
    to her.  She wants, you give, she wants want wants wants wants!  You
    give give give give give ... till you can't TAKE IT anymore!  You've
    run out of "stuff" to give.  Time, attention, ideas, whatever.  And
    it's aggravating to always feel like she's just "taking" and you always
    have to "sacrifice".
    
    What's worked a bazillion times better for us, I'll call "proactive"
    parenting.  The idea is that YOU take control (because a lot of it
    really is a control issue ... she's controlling you, and it feels
    awful).  YOU plan that we will do a, b and c today. Plan the whole day. 
    Make it fair.  Plan time to do things that she likes, but plan time to
    do things that you need to do.  TALK to her.  Even though she can't
    talk, she's getting old enough to understand.  Tell her "I'll read you
    this book, but then I need to cook supper".  Try to include her more
    (it slows you down, but it's helpful).  Sit her on the counter while
    you cook or do dishes.  Give her a 'special' movie to watch.  Bring
    some toys in the bathroom while you take a shower.  Try to exercise
    WITH her (you might be surprised how good a workout you can get from a
    25lb baby, if you're creative).  
    
    I always felt guilty if I tried to do "me" stuff.  And I resented
    always having to do "kid" stuff. In fact I think the whole thing was
    control, and I didn't have the option to just make a cup of coffee
    without a cling-on whining at me.  
    
    Now, I warn them.  Okay, we'll read this book (okay, twice!), and then
    Mommy's going to get a cup of coffee, and do some bills.  After that
    we'll play with your ball.  If he (Jonathan's 19 mos) starts bugging me
    in between, I'll find something else to distract him for a while, but
    usually still "make"??? him play by himself.  Sometimes I give in.  But
    either way, it's MY choice!!!  AND doesn't pester as much because he
    knows that I'll "get back to him".  And I find I don't need as much
    "me" time, if I can just TRULY get a few mins here and there.
    
    At least that's why I LOVE having Jonathan at this age, but was
    completely exhausted when the other two were this age .... 
    
    Wear them down, before they can wear you down ... it IS a competition! 
    They're usually more persistent, which is why we're left exhausted, and
    they're THRILLED! (-:
    
    Ain't they great?!?
    
    patty

    
    re: the last few...
    
    thanks for your notes.  I'm feeling a little less guilty.  I still
    wonder if 10 minutes of quality time/hour is enough.  She still gets
    other attention within that hour (talking, handing her a toy/book,
    chasing her back into the perimeters of the yard).  But I'm not giving
    her my undivided attention for more than 10 minutes of every hour
    (except at meal times and evenings).  Because she is so clingy, asking
    to be held, it makes me wonder if I'm being selfish.  I guess what I'm
    asking of you folks is:
    
    Q: On average, how much time do you spend with your child per hour 
       on a day off (not evenings, but an entire day off with just you and
       your children, without your spouse).  
    
    I had to laugh at the comment about including her in my exercise
    routine.  It was so funny on Monday.  She invited herself.  First, she
    was dancing to my step aerobics tape.  Then she is climbing up on my 
    step and getting between my feet.  And finally, during situps, she
    climbs aboard me and starts bouncing.  What a workout!
    
    I do talk to her alot even if I'm not playing with her.  But if she
    wants to be held, she isn't easily distracted.  
    
    Karen

	I expect you've already considered this, but it might be a good 
	idea to think about why you want to spend more time at home.  

	When I gave it some thought, I decided that one of the things I 
	wanted was to have more time to spend with the kids, plus have 
	time to clean up, make dinner, etc.  In order to do these things, 
	it didn't seem logical to work a few REALLY LONG days, in exchange 
	for more days off.

	Instead, I work more, shorter days.  There are real advantages 
	to this...  From morning, to early afternoon, my 3 yr-old son 
	is kept active either at the daycare, or with our home sitter.  
	I'm usually home between 3 and 4pm.  This gives me about an hour 
	to do things with him and my 8 month-old daughter (anything from 
	bike riding in on a nice day, to watching a movie, or playing 
	with blocks inside).

	By 5, they're ready to let me straighten up a little and start 
	dinner.  If we eat as soon as my husband gets home, there's still 
	time for him to play with the kids before bath time (of course 
    	things don't always work out quite this smoothly!).

	As long as you have the flexibility to work fewer than 40 hours, 
	try to find a schedule that works well for you.  I agree that a 
	full day with the kids can really wear you out.  But, if you 
	balance your day out, you might find that rather than dreading 
	a full day, you really look forward to those few special hours.

	Peggy

    Karen,
    
    Well, I put this to the test yesterday ... I'm taking off M,W and Fri
    this week because of school vacation.  I'm taking the time to be with
    the kids, but ALSO to catch up on stuff about the place. We were up and
    about for ~13 hours.  I spent ~5 hours cleaning out the car, dishes,
    laundry, being t-ball "Mom".that sort of stuff ("my" stuff), ~2 hours
    making/eating meals with them, ~.5 hour driving, ~3 hours wrestling,
    playing ball, watching their bike-riding tricks, ~2.5 hours with
    baseball practice stuff.  So, there was a solid 5.5 hours of time with
    them, 5 hours of "my" stuff, and 2.5 hours of "us" stuff
    (driving/eating).  
    
    Wed. is "their" day .... I expect to spend a lot more time with "just
    them", and a lot less time trying to catch up or do "my" stuff.  We're
    going to the movies, and hope to take a picnic in the park and toss the
    ball around for a while.  I'm sure we'll spend time reading those
    (awful!) books to Jonathan, and chasing him around, and as usual, a lot
    of time wrestling.  They'll probably also want to take off on their
    bikes and go sell some more fundraiser candy for a while.  If I'm
    lucky, that'll be during Jonathan's nap, so I'll have a chance to do
    the dishes or whatever.  If not, then me and Jonathan will spend some
    time watching a video (infrequently), reading a book, playing ball, I
    sit on the floor and he drives his bike into me, or whatever.
    
    So, I guess it depends on "why" I'm home.  If I'm home to be with them,
    then maybe 10 mins of every hour is for "me".  If I'm home for me, then
    I try to make sure they're not there as well.  It's just not fair for
    them to be stuck there, bored to death, while Mom takes all her time to
    herself.  
    
    But ... that's just my view on "motherhood".  (-:
    
    We'll see how Wed and Fri go.  Friday will probably end up being a wash
    because my mother wants to do something, so to me that's a day for none
    of us, just for her, and we'll all be miserable by Friday night.  So
    we'll probably rent a good movie and eat lots of junk and cuddle up on
    the couch.  Or if Jonathan goes to bed early, I'll beat their butts in
    a game of monopoly (HA! I always lose!).
    
    

	Karen,

	I work Monday-Thursday, with Fridays off.  I find that what
	works best for me is to plan how much time I'm going to 
	spend as "kid" time, and how much is "mom" time (which means
	cleaning or cooking).  If I think I can get 6 hours of housework
	done with two kids around, I'll end up one tired, frustrated, crabby
	mom.  

	I can get about 2 hours of housework done each Friday.  I wait
	until the kids are taking their afternoon naps.  They seldom
	wake up at the same time, so the first one up gets juice and
	a snack while I continue working.  When the second one gets up,
	he also gets juice and a snack, and I try to finish up with
	just one "on the loose".  I am fortunate in that my kids will
	play independently for at least some time (no less than 1/2 hour),
	but they want to get some shared "quality" time, too.

	I try to do at least one activity that's specially for the
	kids.  In the spring/summer, it's usually lunch at the park
	or a playground, where one of my sisters usually meets us
	with her kids.  In the winter, it's Chuck E. Cheese or a visit
	to a friend's house or a McDonald's indoor playground.  Sometimes,
	just the two kids and I go out to lunch.  Since it's just the one
	day, it doesn't get too costly.

	At home, the best play time we have right now is when we all go
	into Emily's room and the kids pull out whatever toys they want,
	bringing them over to me, climbing on me, sitting on my lap.  
	We don't do anything structured then, they just play with me
	sitting on the floor with them.

	With the nicer weather, we've been spending more time outside
	on the slide and chasing balls.  We'll probably get a sandbox
	for Emily's birthday, so the kids will have that, too.  

	My limit is usually about 1/2 hour indoors, and an hour or
	more outdoors.  When I reach my limit, I try to get Emily
	involved in something she doesn't really need me for, like
	coloring.  

	When there's something I *need* to get done, Emily usually watches
	a video, and Andrew either plays at my feet with the pots and
	pans, or goes into the pack -n- play if I need him "safe".  I
	think it's important for kids to understand that we can't always
	play all day, so I'll explain that "mommy needs to do XXX" when
	we're done on the slide or something like that.  

	As Lauren gets older, she'll probably want to help out, which
	will also keep her nearby and safely occupied.  I'll sometimes
	give Emily a papertowel or a barely damp sponge when I'm cleaning,
	and she'll "clean" all the cabinets or chairs.

	It's probably harder to figure out how to manage the odd day
	off than it will be once it becomes part of your regular routine.

	Karen

	(PS - I also liked the idea about shorter days.  It'd also work out 	
	nicely when your kids start school.)

	

    
    I find that the older Lauren gets, the better time I have playing with 
    her.  By the time I cut back to 32 hours, she'll probably be 2-1/2 and
    isn't there alot more that you can do with a 2-1/2 year old than a 17
    month old?  I just get bored silly playing with her for extended 
    periods of time but only on the weekends.  I think this might be in
    anticipation of 12+ hours of this.  I also think this might be because
    those 2 days off are so short and there is so much to get done.  I 
    might not feel so pressured if I was home 4 days per week, instead of
    just 2.
    
    On the weeknights, we get home at 5:30 and dinner is a simple affair, 
    often a frozen casserole, leftovers, or something made the night 
    before since Lauren will not let me make dinner right when we get home.
    She wants attention, but she also wants dinner so I have to do easy
    meals.  From the time we get home until bedtime, it is "Lauren" time.
    The only other chore that gets done is washing dishes.   
    
    One thing I'll definately do is join a play group.  My lamaze class 
    has formed a play group and I'm the only one who doesn't make it now.
    
    I've thought a bit about the 5 short days option but I spend 1.5 hours
    per day in the car as it is (including daycare stops).  If my commute
    was less, I'd definately do it.  Actually, once I have school age 
    children, this is what I'll do if possible.
    
    I guess the best thing to do is try my plan of staying home 2 days 
    and see how it goes.  If it isn't working out, I'll try something
    different.
    
    Thanks for all your input!
    
    Karen
                                                            

The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.  If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
forward it to the anonymous noter.  Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached unless you request otherwise.

      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

**************************************************************

I have been a sales rep for Digital for almost ten (10) years, and
am now finding full-time and parenting of two (2) children beyond my
abilities.  I have spoken with my manager and requested part-time
position, with part-time responsibility.  I do not want a full-time
position with an "understanding" to "work from home" a few days a
week.

So far, I hear there is no one else in my area who does this, therefore
no precedent.  I would be grateful for feedback from salespeople out
in the field, who are working such a position.  Although it may be 
interesting to hear about staff positions, such as those that exist 
at corporate, my situation is different due to our commission structure.  
I am looking for information/agreements such as how commission is handled,
how quota is set, how FPI or quarterly bonuses are handled, as well as
how/if benefits get cut out entirely.

Please respond here or off-line.

Thank you.

The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.  If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
forward it to the anonymous noter.  Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached unless you request otherwise.

      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

**************************************************************

	I'm currently working part-time, but have more full-time years 
of service with Digital than part-time years.  It was recently brought 
to my attention that there was some confusion as to how the opening 
balance of the Cash Account Pension Plan (CAPP) was calculated for 
those of us who are now part-time.  After taking a closer look, I began 
to wonder how many other people know how it was figured, and feel that 
there could have been a more fair approach.  

	When the retirement plan changed to track a cash amount, the 
beginning balance was calculated based on salary (or salary equivalent) 
and a vesting percentage (based on number of service years).  An example 
calculation, for a full-time employee, making $40,000, and with 12 years 
of service would be:

	Annual       % of week                          number of 
	Salary   *    worked       *   vesting %   *   service yrs
        ------       ---------         ---------       -----------
	40,000   *     1.00        *     .055      *      12

	Assuming that same employee worked eight years as an R40, two 
years as an R32, and two years as an R24, you'd think the calculation 
would be:

	Annual       % of week                          number of 
	Salary   *    worked       *   vesting %   *   service yrs
        ------       ---------         ---------       -----------
          n      *    1.00         *     .055      *        8
          n      *     .80         *     .055      *        2
          n      *     .60         *     .055      *        2
                 
	However, it's not.  What they've done is to average your last 
five years' salary.  The advantage is that it might be higher than this 
year, if you've got some full-time years in there.  But, it WON'T be 
adjusted for pay increases you've received.  Using that average, the 
updated calculation becomes:

	Salary                                   number of
      Equivalent                vesting %       service yrs
	------                  ---------       -----------
	   n                   *  .055           *  12

	The result is that all service years are calculated using 
an average of the number of hours you've worked only within the 
past five years.

	 As I understand it, the justification for calculating the starting 
balance this way was (1) it was the easiest method to use since a five-year 
average was readily available (2) they believe that a five-year average 
reflects most part-timers' work history and (3) it's similar to the 
calculation they'd have used to determine your benefits at retirement 
age under the old plan.

	If you work part-time now, you might want to take another look at 
the opening balance on your CAPP statement.  Many people feel that their 
opening balance is thousands of dollars lower than if they'd either switched 
to full-time status by December 18, or if a more equitable calculation had 
been used to factor in both part-time and full-time years of service.  

	I'm really on the fence about this issue.  Trying to balance a 
job, two young children, and limited daycare, I don't have the time to 
fight a losing battle.  However, it's hard to ignore the fact that I 
would have started out with $8-10,000 more using a balanced calculation.

	If you feel strongly enough to file a claim, it should be mailed 
to both John Stradinski @MSO (the plan coordinator) and Paul Cornelius @MSO
(U.S. Benefits Mgr).  I also wonder if it would be worth copying Ted Campbell 
and Ed Mansfield, the Company-wide and U.S. EEO/AA managers.  This appears 
to affect primarily women who currently have young children... although 
since we "chose" to work part-time, it isn't a blanket gender issue.

The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.  If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
forward it to the anonymous noter.  Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached unless you request otherwise.

      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

**************************************************************

I would like to approach my manager about going to part-time status 
starting in September.  I'm not sure how popular this is (no one in my
immediate group is part-time although I'm sure there are many in my
business unit who are).  I'd like to do 32 hours and thus really only
want 1 day/week to volunteer at my child's school. (Eventually I'd like
to even cut back further, say to 20 hours but at least for the coming
school year I'd stay at 32 so I don't think I need to even offer that
comment at this point in time).  I don't really need/want to start this 
until September.  I'm looking for suggestions on how to "sell this" to
my manager. Should I first volunteer to take vacation time for a trial
run? I'd like to think that Digital is pretty agreeable to part time/
job sharing, etc.  (Although I'm not looking to do a job share right
now). I have a pc at home and do live fairly close to work so I could
always come in if they needed me, but I'm afraid if I starting doing
that I'd be right back to 40+. I honestly believe I can do my job in
4 days.  Any suggestions or pointers for "selling the idea" sure would
be appreciated.  I should perhaps mention that although I've been with
Digital for 10 years I've been with my present group less than 1 year.

Busy Mom. 

    Go for it!  We can help you.
    
    This ENTIRELY up to your manager.  It doesn't really matter what
    Digtal as a company is doing, except that it is, and has been, within
    the realm of individual groups for years.  The only other factor is
    your manager's manager, which is probably about 2% of the deal.
    
    Grab a copy of Working Mother. They have articles every month about how
    to sell flexible/alternative arrangements to management.  I'll keep an
    eye out, but I recommend that you scan it for these few months. (It's a
    great magazine anyway)
    
    The bottom line is to get your information organized first: How will
    you handle your work load?  How will you handle coverage for that day?
    (without carrying a beeper and coming in!  assume that you will be
    using the day the way you intend)  How does your past performance show
    that this will work?
    
    You can offer to do this on a trial basis, reducing the risk for your
    boss.  When I started, 10+ years ago, the deal was that it was
    reviewable quarterly.  Eventually that was forgotten. 
    
    When it works, try to get evidence of that in writing.  A note in your
    review that says this is a great arrangement and that you are
    performing well will be very helpful when you change jobs and/or
    managers in the future.
    
    Balance is what makes for a longer and happier lives, better workers,
    and more relaxed and effective parents.  If this is how you'll find
    your balance - go for it!
    
    Good luck!

	Today is my last day at Digital, but I've been working 24hr/week for
	3yrs now.  When I was on maternity leave with my first daughter,
	I came in for a visit and proposed it to my manager. I actually
	proposed a 20hr/week schedule but we compromised, he was a great
	manager and very fair minded, he also had a little one at home and
	could understand my situation.  My second daughter is 15months now
	and when I was on maternity leave with her I came in for a visit,
	and proposed a 16hr/week schedule to a different manager.  We 
	compromised on 16hr/week in the office and 8hrs/week at home and
	it's worked out well too.

	Now I'm going to a different company, where my first manager who
	agreed to the part time arrangment works.  And he's agreeing to
	it at the new company also, or else I wouldn't be leaving.

	I find it a really nice balance between work and home life, but
	everyone is different, I know people who work full-time in the
	office, people who are full time moms and others who have all
	different kinds of part-time arrangements.  I'd say their all
	happy, and that's what matters most.  Be happy!

	Best of luck to you, 
	Karen T.

    
    Today is also my last day.  I've been working part time (20 hrs/week)
    for almost two years.  I basically had to choose between going
    full-time or leaving.  I decided, for many reasons, that it would
    be best to leave and let them replace me with someone who was more
    willing to give their all for 8 hours a day.  I just can't do it.
    
    I loved working part time.  I worked 6am-10am so I got home 
    with enough time before school got out to clean house, get
    dinner started, run errands, etc....It was really great.
    
    I hope all you parents out there have a wonderful time watching
    your children grow.  You have been a wonderful support for me
    and the advice that is contained in this file have been
    invaluable.
    
    Thanks and happy parenting!
    
    Pam

    
    Best wishes, Pam.
    
    
    Eva