Conference moira::parenting

    A couple of weeks ago i was sitting with my daughter, 4 months old, 
    when i noticed a pink scratch on her head..further looking i saw a
    few...2 together....with spaces between....i realized they were 
    from my nephew's teeth!!  i called my mother....she thought he was 
    giving her kisses!!!  my other nephew had one on his arm the other 
    day...i call the first hanibal the canibal now.  he's 10 months...i 
    think at that age they are experimenting with their teeth...don't 
    even know what they're doing...later i know it's temper and frustration

    Well, as some of you know from my panic-stricken notice in "Daycare
    wanted", my daughter (1.5 years) bites when she's frustrated.
    
    She bites other kids (toddlers about her own size) when she wants a toy
    they are playing with, or vice versa.  It happens very quickly with no
    loud dispute before hand.
    
    She tries to bite her Dad or me when we frustrate her intentions.  THAT
    is usually accompanied with some crying.
    
    Here is what I've learned:
    
    Some toddlers bite.  Some don't.  At this age, it seems to be related
    to their inability to either get their way by main force, or to
    verbalize what they are feeling.
    
    Some poeple believe that if the parent bites the child back - once -
    that will teach them.  Believe me I'm tempted out of my OWN
    frustration, but I still think it's the wrong thing to do.  Sometimes I
    think if it worked after just once, it would be worth it. . .
    
    All the daycare providers I spoke to, and the printed material I read,
    advise that you not bite back and not have a strong emotional reaction. 
    They recommend watching the child closely to prevent occurances
    whenever possible (such as by separating disputants), speaking sternly
    but calmly after a bite, and giving the child a timeout.  This is how I
    am handling with Ilona who is petite and has very little language yet.
    
    One article recommended that for an older toddler or pre-school child
    you make them brush their teeth, wash their faces, and apologize to the
    bitten child, who should get plenty of sympathy and attention.
    
    It is clearly a mistake at any toddler or pre-school age to treat the
    offending child as a monster or a social pariah.  Outrage and horror
    are inappropriate.  
    
    How did I resolve the daycare problem?  She got kicked out of her
    family daycare with no notice.  We franticaly visited other family
    daycares and daycare centers the next day, Ilona in tow.  By 2 pm, we
    selected a family daycare where she is the only child her age.  The
    others are at least 3, and there are only 4 to 6 kids there at any
    time.  The woman has lots of experience with her own 5 kids and years of
    daycare, and was quite willing to deal with this.
    
    I'd like to try her in a daycare center by September.  We'll see. . .

    When David went through the biting stage (pre-verbal), his caregiver
    would watch him very carefully and note when he was getting frustrated.
    SInce he couldn't talk, he would whine, pull at the toy he wanted, and
    if all else failed he would bite. When she saw him getting to that
    stage, she would distract him with something else. This wouldn't work
    in a large daycare situation, since the caregivers can't concentrate on
    one child, but it worked for us because he is the only little one. Once
    he learned to yell "GIVE ME THAT" he stopped biting. Now he yells "GIVE
    ME THAT PLEASE" and yanks it away. We successfully navigating
    biting, now we're working on sharing...sigh...
    Sarah 

At the daycare center Elise goes to, they encourage the bitten child to tell the
biter "I don't like it when you bite me.  Teeth are not for biting."  This
of course requires language.  I like this because the biter learns that his/her
actions have consequences, and the victim learns to express feelings and stand
up for him/herself.  This also works when they grow and it's punching instead of 
biting.

For the young toddlers, who don't have the language skills yet, an adult
uses a very similar phrase, "I don't like it when you bite.  Teeth are not
for biting."  Then they immediately turn to the poor recipient who is checked
for damage and fussed over.  (If there was a toy involved, it is removed too.)
Elise is learning that biting will not get her what she wants, it will just make 
the person withdraw and she doesn't get the toy either.  For a very social child 
like Elise, this is enough.

But, she can use her teeth when she gets very excited and just doesn't have any
way to express her feelings yet.  Elise, her dad and I were rough-housing
the other night and she got so worked up, she bit me three times in about
15 minutes.  I used the same phrase each time, and withdrew from playing for a
minute or so.  After the third time, she grabbed my hand, stuck my finger in
her mouth, very gently bit down just enough so I could feel it, then pulled my
finger out and kissed it.  I think this was a 1-1/2 year old apology.

    We had a big breakthrough this weekend.  Ilona learned to say "no".
    
    Now most parents probably groan and say, "Here comes the terrible
    twos."
    
    As for me, I hope she will soon be able to say NO instead of biting. 
    It is a far preferable response.
    
    We'll see...
    
    Laura
    
    PS:  Just so you don't think of her as some kind of monster kid, she is
    really adorable.  Petite, big brown eyes, a very expressive face with a
    ready smile, Shirley Temple curls, loves to sing, dance, and make
    sounds.  She is a very happy child who is very alert and fascinated by
    everything.  Most kids like to play with her, too.  (Mama to the
    defense. -:) )

    
    The daycare my daughter is going to the caregivers son was having a 
    problem with having someone smaller that needed moms time, he was
    biting Emily no all the time but every once and awhile, the last
    time was the worst, she had 8 welts on the top of her head, well mom
    (me) almost went over to show him what it felt like, my caregiver was
    beside her self and was also very upset with her son.  I talked it over
    with 2 pedi's both said to remove the child away from the other kids
    and put in timeout,  no in the same room with the other kids.  
    
    It seems to have worked it has been a little over 2 months since the
    last attack.  And I do mean attack.  Andy the biter tackled Emily and
    had her pinned on the floor biting her.
    
    Lisa

Another one of those things I (prior to parenting) said I/my child would NEVER
DO (and ate my words!) -- retaliate by biting back!

My mother said none of her three kids were ever biters, however, one kid in
the neighborhood was.  My older brother would come home daily with teeth
marks.  My mother tried everything.  This kid was "breaking skin".  Finally,
my mother (out of total frustration) said "bite him back and bite him good"!
My brother did and the kid NEVER bit again.

Then I had a daughter, who, too, was a biter.  We tried everything.  Finally,
at 16'ish months of age, she bit the homecare provider's kid for "one too
many times" and the kid bit my daughter "real good" ... thank you, Elizabeth! ...
my daughter never, ever bit again!

I could never bring myself to bite her or tell the victim to bite her,
however, it sure was effective!!

Dottie

My little brother used to bite us a lot (he was about 3).  My little sister went
to the doctor for something and he asked her if she had any questions.  She
told him Mike bit her all the time and what should she do (she was about 5).
He told her to bit him back.

Well, somehow my mom missed this exchange, because later that day, he bit her,
she bit him, and he went ballistic.  She started to punish my sister, but she
said the doctor told her to.

It worked.  He never bit her again, and we other sisters just had to tell him
that if he bit us, we would bite him, too.  Cured.


But, that's sibling to sibling.  More of a fair fight.

    Being bitten back by a little kid is worlds away from being bitten back
    by your parent.  (Maybe one of the daycare kids will bite Ilona
    back?  I don't like the idea much, but I wouldn't mind if another child
    pushed her down on her rear when she attacks and told her NO.)
    
    An excellent article on the subject said if a parent bites a child, the
    child may be terrified that the parent, too, is out of control or
    vicious.
    
    By the way, the parent who said she bit her kid back to "cure" him,
    frequently threatens a beating if they don't behave.  I've never known
    either parent to actually beat the children, but I don't intend to
    raise my daughter with such threats.  "Consider the source."
    

    I remember reading something in one of the Brazelton books about
    this. He said he used to keep a list of all the biters in his
    practice - he posted it on the bulletin board in his waiting
    area so the parents could call each other and get their kids 
    together. 
    
    His point was that the best cure for a biter was to have another 
    child bite her/him. 
     
    Maybe we should start a biters playgroup...
    
    Lucy

I've always heard and read that you shouldn't bite a child back to make him stop
biting.  We went through biting with my two kids with timeouts, loss of attention
after the incident and all that.  By the way, they didn't seem to bite our of
anger, frustration or fatigue.  They just bit.

But then the other day I heard a psychologist on the radio advise a mother to 
bite her child back.  Her reasoning was that child did not know that it hurt to
bite people.  The child does know that biting is a great way to get attention,
and fast.  The doctor therefore reasoned that the child understood that biting
caused pain he or she would stop.

She offered this statement "We don't bite because biting hurts.  This is 
what it feels like".   Interesting.  I'm not sure how I feel about this.  I don't
think my daughters would have feared me if I did this once, as long as I was
under control and not doing it out of frustration and anger.

Maybe it would have saved me a few welts on the shoulder, chest and back of the 
thigh (ouch!).  

Thoughts?

Barbara

    RE:  .12
    
    Yes, biting does bring attention.  But if the child is getting plenty
    of attention anyway, I don't believe they will use bad behavior to get
    it.  
    
    Ilona has not bitten a child since she was placed at the new daycare.
    Placing her with older children has helped.  A few times she looked
    like she would bite (territorial defense) but the provider intervened
    swiftly.
    
    She has tried to bite me a few times when she didn't agree with my
    plans for her.  I pick her up from behind when she is struggling, so
    her mouth is facing away from me.  If I feel those teeth approaching
    my hand, I move it out of range.  I try every trick to get her
    cooperation so these struggles are infrequent.
    
    The daycare provider believes that as she breaks the habit, she will
    leave biting behind.  I am strongly encouraging language skills.  I
    tell her "use your words" frequently and work with her to learn speech.

    We just got over some problems about biting at Kevin's daycare.My
    providers solution was to remove the child who was being bit.Now I
    know that doesn't sound fair so let me explain.
    
    Kevin's been going there since jan and everythings been great.There's
    3 other children plus him.Another 2 yr old,a 20 month old and a 6 month
    old.About a month ago Kyle returned after his mothers maternity leave.
    He's 16 months old and very big and aggresive.In one week both my son
    and the little girl had biten him.His mother absolutely flipped.She
    said that the provider was not wacthing them carefully enough otherwise
    this wouldn't be happening.
    
    Now my son is no angel but he is a pretty good boy.He's alwaya gotten
    along with other kids but I think Kyle pushed him to his limit.My
    provider said she would reprimand the one who bit and put them in
    time-out.Both of us felt that it was not that big of a deal.But Kyle's
    mother felt more should be done to make the other kids not bite.The
    provider told her she was doing all she could be and if she wasn't
    satisfied she she make other arrangements.Which she did.I felt bad
    but I also felt the other mother was overreacting.
    
    Things are back to normal now and the 3 toddlers get along great.
    Which makes my day easier knowing I don't have to worry about
    what's happening at daycare.
    
    I feel it's just a phase and to try to take it in stride.
    
                         Barbara
    

    Ilona got mad at me this weekend and almost bit my hand when I picked
    her up from the back.  I quickly said, "Don't bite me, Ilona."  She
    stopped just as her teeth were touching my hand.
    
    We're making progress!
    
    While playing, she hit her father with a block.  We both immediately
    chastised her.  I held her chin and said, "Say 'I'm sorry' to Daddy." 
    She didn't say the words but started to cry.  I'm sure she got the
    message and probably won't hit again.
    
    L

    
    
    We were 'advised' to try pinching the child where they bit you... One
    of the reasons I believe is that it can give the sense of a bit,
    without the chance of breaking the childs skin...
    
    Our son stopped his biting after a few days of this
    
    
    John
    

Jessica, who is 13 months old (10 months corrected), has recently started to
bite Brad for no apparent reason except that he's there at the moment.  She's
bitten his arm, but really goes for his face.  My mother caught her once just
as she was about to bite him.  It seems she grabbed his face and was picking
out her target area when my mom realized she was going to bite him, told her
no, and removed her.  But I'm still at a loss for what to do once she has
bitten him.  I usually don't know til Brad starts screaming, then I have
to try to figure out why.  By the time I've figured out he's been bitten,
a few minutes have passed.  I tell Jessica no, and remove her, but I'm not
sure at this age she has any idea what I'm saying no about.  It's not the
same as when I tell her not to touch something which she does understand 
because there's a concrete something that she can see.  I don't think she
realizes that a behavior is something that can be bad, and I don't know what
to do to get the message across.  I'm tired of finding little teeth marks on
Brad's face, and I'm worried she's going to bite his eyes (seems to be a
favorite target area).  Any suggestions?

My 13 month old son loves to give kisses, but then they turn into bites.  This ususally
occurs while he's kissing your cheek or hugging and kissing your shoulder.  A stern 
"no" will normally stop the biting for the moment.

Has anyone else experienced this?  And if so, how do you get a baby to understand not 
to bite?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Diane

    Spencer does this also, I think that it is related to his teething. As
    teething apparently puts such a strong impulse to bite down on
    something, I figure that the best we can do at this point is to treat
    it like you would if you had biting while nursing, pull the baby or
    child away and gently reprimand him. "No bite" seems to work in our
    house. 

    	Between the phrase and removing the baby from the activity, it
    stops the biting (for now). I'm sure that it will take awhile before he
    really realizes that biting is not good, for now, I'm sure that it
    feels too good.
    
    			Wendy

    			Wendy

I began this topic and want to thank the people that responded so far. I also
would like to see the discussion continue for as long as there is interest.

I am beginning to feel that I see a pattern of biting emerging as follows:
1) The very young children that bite while nursing. Seems as thought it
is probably quite prevelant (and only noticed by nursing, not bottle feeding
mothers.) 2) Biting then seems to re-emerge about age 1-1/2 to 4. I am
begining to believe that this second stage is either outgrown or "cured".
The "cure" that has been repeated in several replies to the base note has
been a sharp and generally painful response to the bite.

I am beginning to believe that the people who frequent this notesfile
are people who are clearly trying to be "good" parents. I also believe that
"good" means gentle and that gentle means their children should not be
hurt if at all possible. As a result it seems as though the biting
behavior has been tolerated until it was finally outgrown by some parents
who did not wish to employ pain as an instrument of education. I really
appreciate the frank mannerr in which all of you have addressed your
thoughts on the issue. I suppose it is only fair that I too "come clean"
with my thoughts too.

We had three children (now grown - youngest is 23). All of them did receive
a couple spankings but neither my wife or I felt it was a preferred means
for providing education. I have come to the conclusion that a sharp and
painful reply to biting is the answer. I also think that after the impact
of pinching (I like that better than biting back) has sunk in it is a good
idea to explain that you still love and care for (child's name here) but
that biting will not be tolerated. Followed by a hug and something you
both enjoy doing for a few minutes.

/doug

PS I wrote this without an editor and couldn't back up to correct the
missteaks. %^)

    
    I need help with my 10 mos old (eek, 11 mos old next week!)
    For the last couple of weeks he has starting "biting"...I feel
    it may have to do with his teething, seeing as he just cut his
    7th tooth last week, but the question is, what do you do about it??
    
    He's too young to understand "no", and I don't know what else to do. 
    You could say ignore it, but thats not possible when you have
    excrusiating (sp?) pain shooting through the shoulder he just bit, and is
    going back for more on!
    
    Isn't this early for the "biting" stage....?
    
    Chris
      

    Our son, 8 months (eek, 9 months next week!  ;^)  ) old has been biting
    also.  He now has 6 teeth and seems to be working on more.  I 
    believe that the biting is due to both experimentation and teething.
    
    You mention that you thought that the "biting stage" comes later, and I
    think you're right, that there is a pre-verbal frustration that sometimes 
    manifests itself as a biting problem, later on.
    
    We have tried two approaches.  First, we would hold him away from us,
    look him straight in the eye, and say "NO BITING" in a very stern voice, 
    to which his response was either a giggle or more biting, or both!  So, 
    then we decided that, since he doesn't fully understand us, he likes the 
    attention (negative as it may seem to us) and considers it reinforcement.
    
    Sooooooo, approach two is almost to ignore it (hard, as you say, when
    it hurts like hell).  By almost ignoring it, I mean that we still pull
    him away and say "no biting", but very matter of factly, without the
    focus on eye contact, then get him involved with something else, preferably 
    something to chew on.  So, I guess that this approach isn't much different 
    from the first, it's just in the delivery.  However, this one seems to 
    have helped immensely.  He still takes the occasional chomp, but it's 
    not like it was.  I can't guarantee that the change in behavior is due 
    to the approach and not how the teething is going now, but we'll make that 
    assumption until he proves otherwise.
    
    I hope that this helps.
    
    Leslie
    
    P.S.  By the way, after going through this, I thought to check "What to
    	  Expect The First Year", and it suggests the latter approach.

    
    	Spencer is also quite the biter, he seems to bite me far more often
    than he bites his Dad :-( It is very difficult to ignore and my feeling
    is that it should not be ignored, we try to teach him how to pet the
    dog nicely, surely he can understand that biting hurts and that he
    shoulf not do it.
    
    	This weekend was particularly bad, I have black and blue marks all
    over me and in a few places he even broke through the skin. At one
    point when he was biting (very hard) on a finger knuckle without
    letting up, I turned around and bit him on the arm. Of course his
    feelings were terribly hurt and he ended up crying for a long time, but
    I had just about reached my breaking point. It is no fun when your kid
    constantly bites you (and we're not talking nips here, we're talking
    full mouthed full of skin bites). I don't think he made the connection
    between his biting and my biting and I left the situation feeling worse
    than if I had just endured his bite.
    
    	For the most part, I usually pull him back and say "No biting"
    (exactly as the previous noter described) and then try to divert his
    attention onto something else. At this stage in his life, I'm sure that
    the biting is related to teething (it comes and goes with his teething
    symptoms) and is not related to frustration or manipulation.
    
    	I'm considering getting a full leather suit to wear around Spencer
    until he passes this stage, but then perhaps a muzzle on the beast
    would be easier (don't think I haven't looked in to this).;-)
    
    			Wendy
    
    	

    
    I'm still chuckling from Wendy's last sentence! (muzzle) So true!
    
    Sounds like Michael and Spenser are on the same track...He got me
    quite a few times this weekend..really good!  I've pretty much been
    trying to pull his mouth away and say "no bite" or "no biting", and he
    just looks up at me with those big brown eyes, at the same time going
    back for another CHOMP! I have to pull him back and say no about 3-4
    times before he moves onto another limb or finger. And as the previous
    noter said, I try to get his mind off of it by redirrecting his
    attension. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. 
    
    He got me so good one day, on the shoulder, he made me scream/cry, as
    I looked down at him and was about to yell, and he's got this BIG LIP
    pouting out, and starts to cry (he sees me crying). It took all I had
    not	to laugh...his face was so cute. He realised he had hurt me. 
    As Wendy said, he doesn't seem to do it out of anger, frustration etc, 
    more as a quick response thing to maybe a bit of pain thats shooting 
    through his gums.
    
    Its nice to know I'm not alone in this, and that it is a normal stage 
    of teething.....I was thinking I was going to be in deep-sneakers by
    the time he was 2 if he was starting to bite already! Or as Wendy said
    "a leather suit"!
    
    :-)
    Chris
    

    Must be the age.  Jessica (10 mos) has been biting me all weekend.  She
    is just getting her teeth.  One broke through yesterday and the other
    one is on the way.  It doesn't hurt when she bites but wait till those
    teeth come in.
    
    No does not work for me either.
    
    Angie

    
    Youre right Angie, wait till those teeth come in!!  I've got black and
    blues all over my shoulder!   
    
    Your note reminded me of when Michael was about 4 mos and just started
    teething, and liked to gnaw on things. His favorite teething toy was 
    "my chin"!  That only lasted till the first one broke though!
    
    	Chris
    
    

    When Charlotte, almost 14 months bites me (which she has done off
    and on since 8 months) I say "ouch!" or "I don't like being bitten!"
    and, if I'm holding her, put her down and walk away. She used to
    cry - now she sort of chortles and turns her attention to something
    else (makes me wonder what she thinks!). The biting has diminished
    a lot.
    
    Lucy

Jessica has started sporadically biting again.  What I do is put my finger
across her mouth (like you're saying "shhhh") and say 'no' firmly, then I
put her down and walk away.  Otherwise, I was finding she wasn't quite sure
what I was saying no to, so this way she's starting to make the connection
it's that biting she does with her mouth.  It does seem to work with her,
and she doesn't bite again for a few days.  And I know it's because she's
teething again, but I don't happen to want to be her teething ring.

My daughter went thru a stage when she was biting a lot.  And being a toddler,
it hurts like hell.  She bit me far more than anyone else, my theory being that
she felt safest with me, so she would experiment.

The daycare center suggested we attach a rubber chewy to a pacifier clip, then
clip it to her.  Then if she needs to bite, she can bite the chewy instead of
someone else.

It worked really well, and it's such a positive solution to the problem.  After
all, biting chewies or teething rings is ok, but biting people (or pets) 
is wrong, and we're just diverting her from an "illegal" act to a "legal" one.

So, if she bit me, I would tell her "I don't like it when you bite me."  Sternly.
Then I would hand her the chewie, and withdraw for a minute or two (like move
to the other side of the room, pay attention to someone else, become engrossed in
the television or a magazine, etc).

I think this solution is advanced for a 10 month old, since it requires the
child to learn enough self-control to divert his/her actions in mid-attack.
That's too much to expect of a 10 month old (and probably an 15 month old too,
but maybe not, depending on the kid). But keep it in mind, it may be handy later.


A couple other biting kids also started wearing chewies to see if it
helped.  Then all of a sudden, it became a toddler fad, and they all insisted
they needed chewies.  So for a couple weeks there, they *all* were wearing them.
Geez, peer pressure, and they aren't even 2 years old yet!

Pat

    	This past week Spencer has been very sick with the "nose cold" that
    seems to be going around. He has been very cranky, frustrated, and out
    of it (a lot has to do with the constant decongestant that he has been
    put on).

    	I've noticed just this week that when he gets very tired, or very
    frustrated he puts his fingers in his mouth and bites himself. I am
    somewhat concerned as he leaves little teethmarks on his hands and
    fingers and surely it must hurt.

    	This just may all have to do with the cold, medication, and
    exhaustion but it is disconcerting. Anyone have experience in this?

    			Wendy

    
    Wendy, our family went through this a couple of weeks ago, luckily 
    Michael didn't get hit with it as bad as my husband and I, but he did
    have it, although I didn't notice the biting you are talking about.
    
    My reason for this reply was more of MY reaction to the cold
    (actually, my husbands and I turned into a full blown sinus infection).
    But MY teeth were hurting!  BAD! The doctor said it was pretty much 
    because everything is kind of tied in together - sinus', teeth, ears
    etc...and the congestion just builds up everywhere. If he's putting 
    his whole hand in his mouth, it even explains it more, becuase it was
    my BACK teeth that hurt the most, maybe he's trying to reach back
    there, even since his molars aren't in yet. (I was almost ready to call the 
    dentist and make an appt for myself!).
    
    No real answer for it all for you though...did the pedi put him on an
    antibiotic also??  Our doctor put us on a heavy duty one, and it
    cleared up pretty well.
    
    Good Luck. Hope Spencer is better soon!
    
    Chris
    (who finally got to put away the meds for 2 whole weeks now! Amazing!)
    

    Wendy,l
    My son is 4 yrs. and used to bit and hit himself.  I have talked with
    my dr. about it.  She said it could just be frustration.  When Ty would
    hit himself he made sure someone was near by to give comfort.  This
    lassted for about 3 weeks and he hasen't done it since.  Come to think
    of it he did have a cold at the time and was also on Dimatap pretty
    regular.  Maybe the `spacey' feeling that stuff gives them cause the
    frustration.  I don't know.
    
    Virginia

    
    Actually it might have been a combination of the cold (that is finally
    abating after three weeks) and the medication. I have not noticed this
    behavior in Spencer for the last week. (biting himself). 
    
    
    I did notice that he is also getting his bottom molars and so it may
    have just been he was overwhelmed by everything.
    
    			Wendy		

    It really helped to read thru this note.  What a wealth of information
    we have in this conference!
    
    When undressing Chelsea for bath on Friday Night, I noticed this
    quarter size semi-bruise/semi-welted and surrounded my little prick
    looking marks.  Of course panic and alarm set it and I thought she
    had everythign from ringworm to a unknown bugbite...my husband calmly
    looked at it and said "It looks like someone bit her".
    
    Well of course my first reaction was how could anybody bite a 10 month
    old baby (this note has taught me better..that Chelsea would probably
    be biting if she had any teeth yet!!).  Honestly though, I felt pretty
    crummy about it..knowing its just the first of many things to come, I
    couldn't help but beat myself up with the..."Well if she wasn't in
    a group daycare maybe she would have not been bitten...etc".  I love
    her daycare provider and so does she.  Chelsea is at the age where she
    is quite the explorer and down on the floor with all the other kids.
    Her daycare provider keeps a close eye on them and I don't blame her
    at all for not being there at the precise second this happened...I know
    how quick things happen with Chelsea at home and I only have her to
    watch.
    
    First I just needed to unload...
    
    Second might seem like a silly question, but this first time mom has
    got to ask...
    
    Is there anything special you do to treat a bite (broken or unbroken
    skin)?
    
    We put Neosporin on it and by Sunday night it was almost gone...just
    a little bruise and a few small traces of the teeth marks.
    
    I did call Karle (daycare provider) and let her know, so she could be
    aware if one of her kids was getting hungry or agressive lately...we
    had a very nice talk and I'm glad that I didn't wait until Monday.
    
    Thought I had a good six months or so before I had to address a biting
    issue...guess I was wrong!! (sure it won't be the first time that facts
    don't line up with my brain waves!)
    
    ...Lori

    Broken skin: I would call the doctor for advice. 
    
    Unbroken: I would not worry about the bite - just the biter and the
    bitten!
    
    Lucy 

    Broken skin:  My doctor advised that we simply clean it (soap and
    water) and watch to see that no infection develops.  Signs of infection
    include redness or swelling.  (Assuming the bite is not severe, which
    might require stitches, more commonly from a dog than a child.)
    
    That's about it. 
    
    L
    

    I have twin (on Saturday, they will be 13 months old) girls.  The
    younger one Katie is forever biting her sister Crystal, Katie leaves
    some pretty good red and purple marks.  The Pedi said to separate
    them because they don't understand the word NO.  He says it's one
    minute of punishment for their age.  But Katie thinks it's a game
    when I put her in her crib with the door closed.  She will cry for
    a few seconds and then begins playing with her crib toy or throws
    everything out of her crib.  Does anyone have any other suggestions
    that I might try?  By the way, Crystal will cry when I put Katie in
    the bedroom, I think because now she doesn't have anyone to play 
    with anymore.  As of yesterday Crystal now has about eight bit marks
    on her arms and back, one from yesterday the others are just about
    gone (just bruises).
    
    Any suggestions are welcome.
    
    Denise Sherman

    How about using a place other than her crib for time-out?  I never
    used the crib for time-out as I didn't want that to be associated with
    punishment, sort of the same logic most hospitals use with babies where
    the take them from their cribs to someplace else for treatments such
    as bloodwork so there is no negative connotation with someplace they
    have to sleep.
    
    When Jessica was about that age, she used to bite her twin brother.
    I told her 'no' firmly, and put her in time-out in the porta-crib
    which we were no longer using for naps, so by that time, it had
    become the place for time-out.  The problem I had was trying to
    figure out if she had bitten him if I didn't see it, because it
    takes a minute for the bite marks to show.  It took a while, but
    she did eventually figure out that biting was not acceptable.  Oh,
    and I didn't let them have any toys in the porta-crib when they
    were doing time-out.  It's not supposed to be fun.
    
    And I found that once they got old enough to be able to climb in and
    out of the porta-cribs, they had also gotten old enough to understand
    time-out, and can now be put in the kitchen chairs for time-out.  But
    something that I think is odd is that my kids will do a time-out in
    the chairs, but only there.  They don't do time-out on the couch or
    anyplace else.
    
    Now that Jessica no longer bites, she's graduated to just plain hitting
    Brad or throwing toys.  We're working on that, and even making some
    progress, but I guess it's just the next stage.
    
    Cathy

    My daughter,now 2 years old,was never a biter. Last year there were at
    least 3-4 times she came home with biting marks (no skin broken,just
    "clock" shaped teeth marks), so the next time I saw the kids' mothers
    (2 kids), I told them,and they promised me they'll talk with their kids
    (then aged 14-15 months)-and that was it. No more bitings.
    2 days ago we've discovered a nasty bite on my son's hand. A real deep 
    one. The care-giver at the center was the first to tell us about the
    bite,and who did it. He is a sweet little kid,about 16-17 months old,
    who goes around and bite kids for whatever reason he can come up with
    (fighting over a toy-bite. looking at the same book he is-bite. etc)
    so, yeaterday I saw his mom-and told her about it. I swear to G'd I was
    NOT rude,or mad,or anything. I had not expected the nasty reaction from
    her. But it did come. I did not know what to do. Alon (the biter) is 7
    months older than my boy,and at this age it IS alot. I can't ask the
    manager to ove Alon to an older-kids group since at this time of the
    year they have to get the parents permision-which they (parents) don't
    give,so what I had expected was the mother to at least SAY she'll talk
    with Alon. What I got was a 5 minutes lecture of how she can NOT be
    responsible for what he's doing while she is not there,and bla bla bla.
    She did not even say she was sorry!!! (not that I blame HER-she did not
    bite my baby!!!). 
    Anyway- I left the center with a bitter taste,hoping it's just "one of
    those days". I know Shachar is not Alon's first "victim" since 3 other
    mothers who saw her yelling at me said their kids were also hurt by
    him. And YES,he is a sweet little boy,even now.
    It's his mom's reaction I can not put up with.
    But then again-what can I do?
    R/

    
    If the parents won't stop it, talk to the caregiver, since they
    are the one's responsible for your child's safety!

    Isn't there a law or 'rule' saying that if a child bites X number
    of times they should be removed from the daycare?
    
    Just curious - I don't think that's the right answer though.  I had
    a biter (who still does on occasion) for what I feel is no reason!
    Welcome home mommy,,,bite!  She is usually totally stressed or
    over=excited when she bites.  I took this very seriously and tried
    everything from pepper to soap to biting her back, putting her in
    her room, giving the bitee all the attention and nothing worked. 
    
    BUT!  I tried everything and felt really bad when she bit...
    
    She still bites now but only on a rare occasion - hopefully someday
    she'll grow completely out of it!  
    
    I agree that the mom shouldn't have been lecturing you.  Maybe 
    that was just her way of telling you that she feels there is nothing
    she can do.  It does get stressful when you try everything you can
    and they still bite.  
    
    Andrea
    who-wasn't-allowed-to-play-with-the-neighbor-kids-'cause-I-was-a-biter-too

    I have 18 month old twins. They both use biting to get what they want
    and we are having little success in stopping them.
    
    It's a bit of a dilemma since when they bite, it's ALWAYS because of a
    toy. One has a toy, the other walks over and tries to grab it, and if
    he/she fails, the teeth come out!
    
    Now an earlier suggestion was that the toy is taken away and the victim
    is given loads of sympathy, which sounds reasonable to me, but consider
    this scenario :
    
    One plays with a toy, the other wants it. Tries to grab it. The one
    who was originally playing with the toy bites the other to stop him/her
    from getting it.
    
    So... do you *still* take the toy away ? Who from ? Both ? It's unfair
    on the one who was, up until then, playing happily. But then, he/she
    *did* bite.
    
    I guess we could bite the first one and then let them have the toy ;-)
    
    But that's going to confuse them, and besides, I couldn't/wouldn't bite
    either of them anyway!
    
    I think the solution is to try to teach them to share but how do you
    do that ? They'll give US things to play with but they just WON'T give
    each other anything.
    
    Thoughts ?!
    
    		Jamie.
    

    I'd take the toy away from both of them, and explain that biting is not
    acceptable.  At 18 months, I'm not sure how much of an explanation
    they'd understand, so I might pat my finger on the biter's mouth [sort
    of like a 'shhh' motion] while saying 'we don't bite' to help the child
    understand that the biting is from the mouth. With my twins, I only had
    1 biter, but she just bit her brother for absolutely no reason. She'd
    calmly go up to him, grab his little face in her hands like she was
    going to kiss him, and then just bite. It took a while, but she did
    eventually grow out of it.  That was also when they were around 18
    months. It's interesting that she started biting Brad again at the last
    daycare [when they were about 2 1/2], and it was also for no reason,
    and it was only him she'd bite!  That was also a short-lived phase, but
    we were able to use time-outs effectively to teach her that it was
    wrong.
    
    At this point, I think you just need to make both of them understand
    that biting for any reason is unacceptable.  I'm not sure when they
    learn to share.  At 3, mine still have quite a ways to go on sharing of
    toys, though they will always willingly share food. I think that's
    because they figure there's always more food, but they understand there
    is only one toy.
    
    Oh, and something I do when I take something away is put it where they
    can't reach it but where they can see it. Helps for them to understand
    that they have lost something for a reason.
    
    Regards,
    Cathy 

    Well, since they are both biting, biting them (to show them how it
    feels) probably wouldn't be successful.  If there is a real victim int
    he situation, definately put the aggressor in <insert your choice of
    discipline>.  If there are two victims, they both receive <insert your
    choice of discipline> relative to the "crime".  My take is that I do
    not believe a child should be made to share unless they want to. I try
    to encourage sharing, but don't force it.  Afterall, I wouldn't want
    someone telling me I had to share my new car with my neighbor.  With
    the two victim situation - make the punishment for biting different
    from the toy grabbing.  Biting is much more dangerous and deliberate;
    and should be treated as such.
    
    JMHO - (just my humble opinion)
    
    -sjd
    

    How do you stop a 14 month old from biting?  This boy can really
    bite!  I realize he should be bit back, done and he likes it!  Grant
    you we probably don't bite him hard enough, but he laughs and lunges
    at you again for another bite.  The other night he was lying over
    my shoulder and, you guessed it, he bit and it took me by surprise.
    It really hurt.  I shook him (gently) and said no biting, to which
    he laughed and lunged for my shoulder again.  Finally I put him down.
    
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Shaking a child, even gently, can be very dangerous.  If you are hurt or 
angry when you do it, or if you get frustrated because the child doesn't 
respond in the way you would like, the shaking can be harder than you think, 
and result in serious injury, even death if severe enough.

As for the biting, it seems to me that putting the baby down is better than 
trying to discipline.  The child may misinterpret the attempt at discipline, 
but putting him down deprives him of what he wants (attention from mommy), so 
he learns that biting has unpleasant consequences.  Later on, he may learn 
from other kids that it has the unpleasant consequence that they either hit 
or bite back.

Clay

    Clay,
    
    I would add a very forceful "NO!" to setting the child down, to
    emphasize that this isn't a game and that it isn't something you wish
    reeated.  Atlehi has been cutting four teeth at once, the last two
    weeks, and I am very tired of having my breasts treated like artichoke
    leaves.  Just putting her down hasn't been as effective as adding in
    NO as well.
    
    meg

   I've only been bitten a few times, and it has always been a surprise
   (well, to me anyway).  A loud, reactive "OW!", followed by putting the
   child down immediately has usually gotten their attention.  At least
   with my kids...
   
   - Tom

    I'm going to give this subject another twist. 
    
    My daughter, who will be 2 in September, is the brunt of the biting at
    daycare.  She has been bitten 4 times in one week, by the same child. 
    What can I do as a parent of the victim.  I've spoken to daycare and
    the way they handle it is that the biter gets a time out and the victim
    gets ice on the bruise.  What else can I do.  I'm getting very annoyed. 
    Here's another twist, the biter is the son of the daycare center
    Lindsey goes to. 
    
    Help, I'm at my wits end.  I've instructed Lindsey that it is not nice
    to bite and is she does get bitten again, she is to hit the child.  I
    am not one to condone violence but I've had enough.  I've also told
    daycare that they are not to punish Lindsey for getting back at the
    biter. 
    
    Any other suggestions that I can give my daycare?  or protect my child?
    
    Thanks,
    Lisa Cozzens  

    Lisa,
    
    Don't know if it would do any good, but YOU could try talking to the
    biter, and explain to him that Lindsey is not allowed to play with him
    anymore if he ever bites her again.
    
    Depending on how old he is, it might have some impact.  
    
    (or maybe when no one's looking, you could bite him? (-;)

    I went through this - Russell was the favorite "snack" for a week. 
    Strangely enough, the kid who was doing the biting was also one of
    Russell's best friends!  
             
    While I fully expected Russell to get bit at some point at daycare, I
    was really livid when the third bite in as many days almost broke the
    skin!  The next day I went and talked with the teachers in his room. 
    Each teacher had a group of kids that they were primarily responsible
    for.  I requested that Russell and the biter be assigned separate
    teachers.  This would keep them separated at lunch, nap, and group
    based activities (group a color, group b paint, etc).  I expressed my
    concern that Russell was trying to bite in retaliation - No way did I
    want this kid to turn Russell into a biter!  We also discussed the
    possibility of changing rooms.  I didn't really want to push Russell
    up to the next room just because he was being bitten.   The teachers
    and myself agreed to give the new arrangement a few days to see if it
    helped.  If not, I was going to demand a conference with the teachers,
    director, and parents of the biter.  Evidently I wasn't alone, other
    mothers were considering the same thing.  Fortunately, it worked out -
    it really was just a phase the kid was going through.

    For a while there, I really wanted the center to kick the kid out.  But
    then I thought - what if my kid started biting like that?  What would I
    do if someone said "don't bring your kid back"?  I'm glad the center
    was trying to work with the kid and his parents to fix the problem
    instead of just removing it.

    Talk to the teachers again.  See if they are willing to come up with
    other solutions.  Talk to the parents and see if they are willing to
    try to help fix the problem.  If they've got a "it's my center and my kid
    can do anything" attitude, you may want to consider leaving the center.
    
    	marianne

	From the 'other' parent:

	Well, I am that other parent's kid who bites.  My son who will
	be 2 in Sept. is the bitter at DayCare.  It has been going on
	for several months.  Yes, I hate it and I feel awful but what
	can I do????

	The daycare is doing what they can do to help the situation.
	They keep telling me that it is a phase that some children
	go through and that he will grow out of it.

	Well, it got so bad the parent of the child (he only bit this
	one child) complained so much they did something.  We moved
	Bradley up with the 3yr olds.  They were old enough to let
	Bradley know biting is not acceptable (peer pressure or
	something.)  Well, he was with the 3yr old for 2 weeks.  He
	was biting all the kids in there  (mainly bradley bits
	because of frustration...can't do someting, someone takes
	his toy, etc.) and he was not only getting more frustrated
	because he couldn't do what the 3yr olds could do, but no one
	would play with him.  I would drop him off at school and he
	would refuse to go in the room.  This just broke my heart.
	This new room was obviously not working out.

	This week he is back with the 2yr olds and is doing better.
	He has had some good days.  He is much happier in this room.
	BTW, he is good friends with the child he bites.  So why does he
	bite him?

	It is very difficult and frustrating for parents of the biter as 
	well.  I've had sleepless nights worrying about him and waiting for 
	the daycare to call me up and kick my child out.   

	I think/hope he is getting better and is starting to understand 
	biting is wrong.  Time will tell.  

	Lynne

My daughter, Lauren, has also been the "snack" of biters.  She
has come home with one mark that lasted 4 days.  Lauren is very
verbal and likes to talk.  We taught her to say "Don't bite
me.  That is not nice.  You get a time out".  She says it very
loudly and shakes her finger.  We weren't sure what would happen.

Well the next time one of the little girls bit her finger.  Lauren
let out with this phrase quite loudly and repeated it (over and
over).  The biter was put in a time out (which is the policy of
our daycare).  The daycare folks thought it worked quite well
besides being humourous to watch.  We have also taught Lauren 
to say "don't scratch", "don't hit)".

Not sure if it will work for everyone, Lauren is big for
her age so that might help.

With regards to what to do to the biter.  I have a friend whose
son plays very well with Lauren.  He had quite a biting problem
for a few months.  She was constantly "in conference" with her
daycare.  Eventually her son outgrew it.  After seeing her concern,
and knowing her as a caring loving parent, I decided it can 
happen to anyone.  As long as I know the daycare and parents
are trying to work the problem - I "tried" not to react to
badly when it happened.

	Call me paranoid but what if a biter has AIDS and breaks
	the skin of his victim?  
		
	Karen

	

    They SAY that AIDS isn't transferrable through saliva.  So, then, the
    biter would have to have a 'cut' in their mouth that's (I believe)
    actively bleeding, and then bite through your child's skin, and somehow
    transfer some of their blood to your child.  Not likely, but possible.
    
    Now if the bitee had AIDS, and some other kid took a chunk out of him,
    and that kid happened to have a cut in their mouth, and got a little
    blood in the process of biting, seems a lot more likely.
    
    The bad part is, with teething, I think kids' gums are open a lot.  The
    good part is that when they break skin it doesn't usually start
    bleeding till the biter is long gone.  
    
    But it wouldn't hurt to 'panic' the daycare a little and ask them what
    THEY think about it - maybe they'd take it more seriously.
    
    

    My daughter came home from daycare with a bite mark on her arm which
    eventually turned purple.  I was very upset with the toddler that had
    bit her.  This little boy seems to intentionally push the others for no
    reason.  He came over to her one day when I was standing right with her
    and gave her a push.  He has actually pushed my husband.  He has not 
    hurt Alyssa in a long time - since the biting episode.  Hopefully the
    daycare center put a stop to that.
    
    Alyssa has only bit herself once (that I know of) our of
    frustration - shes 10 months.  I hope she doesn't grow into biting
    other children by watching others do it to her.
    
    
    
    

    We are currently dealing with a situation at our daycare center
    where my daughter (20 months) is the victim of a biter.
    
    She is in the "toddler room" where the children's ages range
    from 16 months - 2 yrs, 9mos.
    
    The child that bites her does not bite any other child in the
    room.  He seems to bite for no apparent reason.  He doesn't seem
    to be frustrated by any situation, they aren't fighting over toys
    etc...no one can seem to figure out why he is biting her.
    
    This has been going on since November and has happened on more
    than one occasion.  My husband and I are determined to do what
    it takes to ensure this child does not bite her again.
    
    I have been in discussions with the director, but would like
    to ask the the Parenting Community "How does your daycare center
    deal with biters?"
    
    thanks for your help!  Linda

    Douse her in insect repellant!  :-)
    
    (sorry, weird mood today!  :-)
    
    					cj *->

    We went throught the exact same situation with our son at about
    the same age.  It happend A LOT!!!  Every time, my husband or
    I would talk to the teacher and to the director.  We kept a 
    record of written injury reports (which we had to sign) for each
    bite.  
    
    They had considered moving him down with the younger kids -- we
    SCREAMED at this option as our son was the victim here!  It worked,
    and they ended up moving him to the next class up (3-5 yr olds), 
    where he hasn't had 1 single injury report, and he and the biter
    are separated.  He totally enjoys this class and has become such
    good friends with all the other kids.  He is now 2 yrs, 9 mos.
    and keeping up with the rest of them (preschool) with learning
    his letters, etc.  He is so much happier now.
    
    You need to DEMAND action be taken immediately, otherwise, you
    are going to start experiencing problems with your daughter
    not wanting to go to daycare (which is what happened to us).  
    
    Good luck.  I know that when we went through it with our son,
    it was rough.  We'd wonder everyday if we were going to 
    find any of those wonderful blue/purple bite marks on him
    when we'd pick him up from school.
    
    The director at our school tried to just say, "kids do these
    things, we're dealing with it as best we can" ... well, that
    wasn't acceptable, especially when he had been bitten 3 times in
    1 week!  Totally unprovoked!   My son was just the snack of 
    the week for this kid.
    
    Let us know what happens.
    
    Julie
    
    Julie
    
    
    

    Julie,
    
    Thank you for your note.  I knew there would be someone
    that had the same situation as us.  My husband and I did
    make the decision last night to speak to the director and
    demand that the children be separated.  
    
    I had already modified Katie's schedule for this week and
    next so she wouldn't be with him.
    
    WELL, I just called the center and it seems that the boy's
    mother is so upset about his behavior and concerned that Katie
    (or another child) will get seriously hurt that she has given
    her 2 week notice and will be removing him.  :-)
    
    I can empathize with her and wish that it didn't have to 
    come to that, but I am THRILLED that I don't have to sit
    at work wondering if my baby is going to be "snack du jour"
    for this boy.
    
    Thanks again for your note.
    
    ...and CJ, thanks for the laugh.  Unfortunately, the insect 
    repellant wouldn't work because Katie is a thumb sucker ;-)
    
    			Linda

    Chelsea was also the "snack of the week", but I have a different
    opinion on biting.  Chelsea was also bitten 3 times in one week
    and it was very difficult to go thru this phase.  At the time
    Chelsea was approximately 2 and at home daycare.  I loved my home
    daycare mom and had complete trust in her regarding the care of
    my child.
    
    I tend to agree with the director of they daycare, with a few additions
    to her comments.  Biting does just happen and in this case maybe you
    are lucky that it wasn't your child that was doing the biting.  I think
    for starters that the director and the teachers need to be on top of
    the situation in monitoring the biter as close as possible.  I think
    the parents need to be informed and some feed back given to the "victim
    of the biter's parents" as to how they are handling it, so that one
    can be assured that it is being taken care of the best it can.  My
    daycare mom was in tears over this and so was the mother of the biter.
    Chelsea was holding her own (and I hated looking at those marks) but
    the removal of the child would be the last resort.
    
    I guess that too many times I have watched my daughter (who is going
    to be 4 this May) fall in front of me...when I was just inches away
    and everything seemed to switch to slow motion and I wondered why
    I couldn't catch her... or keep her head from connecting with that
    wall or corner of the couch.  Things do happen with the best of
    parental care or "daycare parenting" with the adults within an arms
    reach.  Children go thru phases and biting seems to be as normal as
    the others....hitting, pushing, screaming, etch.
    
    I honestly feel for all those parents who's children have been the
    victims of biters, but I equally feel for those who's children are
    doing the biting and are hurt, frustrated, and trying there best 
    to help their child outgrow this behavior.
    
    No Flame...just Feelings
    
    ..Lori
    

    Lori,
    
    I do agree with you that biting is a normal phase that children
    go through.  I just don't agree that you leave the situation the
    way it is if it is happening so often.  At the time, we weren't
    too happy with the particular care provider and didn't feel she
    was watching the kids closely enough, because during the times
    of the day when there was a different provider or a day when
    she was out and another person cared for her class, it never 
    happened.  Now this could be coincidence, but I doubt it.  That
    teacher is no longer with the school, so I believe there were
    other issues there.   
    
    Oh - and there were only 1 or 2 children who were victims of
    this biter.  I believe the main reason for his biting was that
    his verbal skills weren't very good and that was his way of
    communicating his frustration.  The reason we wanted action to
    be taken is because our son was starting to dislike going to
    daycare everyday, and we felt be bitten was one of the reasons.
    Since he has been moved out of that class, he's been much 
    happier.  I will note that the little boy who WAS biting him is
    now back in his class and they are doing fine together - in
    fact they are pretty good buddies... but he is also speaking
    much better these days.
    
    We would never consider asking the director to have the parent
    remove the child from the daycare.  We just wanted the two kids
    to be separated since we were sick and tired of filling out injury
    reports on a daily basis.  As much as it is a normal phase,
    nobody wants their child to be bitten (or to bite others for
    that matter).    I'm happy with the outcome, and all is well now.
    
    julie
    

RE: -.1,-.2

Sounds like the general happiness and trust you have in your provider or
situation plays a big part in how you view it.

I also have a child in the early toddler class at her daycare center.  
As with every group of kids this age, there was a biter.  The teachers 
knew it, the director and assistant director knew it and the child's 
parents knew it.  Under state law, they could tell me that my child
was bitten, but not by whom (I found out when I saw him bite one day).

There was one little girl in particular that he seemed more prone to 
bite.  The teachers just started watching him VERY closely whenever
he got near that child.  As soon as he made a move to bite (but had 
not made contact) he was immediately reprimanded and made to move
away from the other child.  They were also very careful that everyone
used consistent words to tell him no.  Over a period of 2-3 weeks, the
biting tapered off and then stopped.

My child was the bitee only once.  I had complete faith in the teachers
and knew the situation was considered serious and being dealt with.  I
backed off and let them deal with it.  If it had gone on for over 4-6
weeks, I think I would have been talking to the teacher and possibly the 
director.

The teacher of this class (she's been with this age group for at least 5
years) tells me she counts on at least one of these in every group of
kids and she goes through 2 groups every 18 months.  She's gotten very
good at handling this situation.

Irene

    re. .62
    
    Thanks for that "snack of the week", that one made me laugh!
    
    re .64 (???? the previous note here)
    
    That sounds like one of the best, most reasonable solutions I've
    heard.  I'm extracting your note and saving it for the future
    with Angeline.   
    							cj *->

    Well, it sounds like most daycare centers do handle biting
    with similar procedures.  I did feel confident that our center
    was handling the situation to the best of their ability.
    He was constantly under the watchful eye of a teacher, unfortunately
    it only takes a second.  In fact I was sitting next to both children
    when the second bite happened!
    
    Even though my child was the victim, I do feel bad for the parent
    who is obviously very upset about the situation herself, enough
    so to remove her child from the program.  It's not easy for
    anyone involved.
    
    	Linda