Conference moira::parenting

    In our town, the busses will drop of your child at day care,
    as long as its fine with the Day Care provider and you give
    permission.  A bigger issue here has been to find Day Care
    providers who will do this.  they would prefer having someone
    starting at 8:30 or 9 rather than 11:30 or so.

    I dont recall the details from when i was a kid, but being a bus driver
    today has gotten pretty complicated.....for many kids, the driver has
    to know a complex schedule....some days to day care, some days to
    Mom's house, some days to Dad's house, and then for many kids they
    will be going over to so-and-so's house after school..and they have a note
    and the driver drops them off at that house.

    its pretty amazing that it all works
    bob

    YOU may live too close for bus transportation ... does your day care
    provider?  You may be able to arrange bus transportation based upon
    where your sitter is.  I use to do day care and I had no problem with
    taking kindergarden kids.
    
    Joyce
    

First let me tell you that you are not alone. As a school committee member I
hear lots of complaints and worries. The biggest issue is transportation and
safety of elementary children and I hear from lots of pre-school parents with
questions.

First step is to call the school department and ask about their Kindergarten
transportation policy. Some communities wave the walking rule for 
Kindergarteners due to safety concerns. Also find out about the program. Many
school systems rotate 1/2 day programs so that the children go in the morning
for half the year and the afternoon the other half. While you have them on the
phone find out if they have an extended day program. Many school systems run
these programs on a tuition basis to help working parents. In fact, some 
systems actually run full-day kindergarten classes with parents paying tuition
for the second half. 

If you need to use an outside provider then those that are "commercial" in
nature (IE Kindercare or church affiliated with a large number of kids) have
transportation arrangements with the town. Some of them even may provide their
own transportation. 

If none of this works out then you may need to sit down with some other parents
and develop a proposal to present to the school committee. If you do this be
reasonable and willing to work with administrators. Extended day programs and
full day K programs can help school systems acquire additional funds above the
local appropriation and provide a service to the community. 

If you any questions feel free to contact me.

Mike

    I am assuing you live in MA, but let me give those of the NH parents
    out there the benefit of my research.
    
    Nashua does not bus K students.  Nashua does not rotate their schedule
    - if you sign up for morning class (8:30 - 11:05) you stay with morning
    class (afternoon is something like 12:10 - 2:45).  There is no after
    school program for morning K students (I believe there is for afternoon
    K - call the Adult Learning Center who provides the service at most
    schools).  Not all schools have after school care.  Few "centers" have
    transportation for morning classes.  Some do for the afternoon sessions
    and that is usually provided by GNTA (greater Nashua Transportation)
    unless the center has their own vehicles.
    
    For me, I will have a child in the morning K beginning in September.  I
    researched all my options.  My routine will be this:  I will transport
    both my kids to school in the morning (1st gr & K) at 8:25.  I will
    then drive to work and arrive by 8:30-35.  My sister will pick up my K
    child at 11:00 and keep him with her until 4:30 when dad gets out of
    work and can pick him up.  My 1st grader will most likely go to one of
    the local after school programs (Boys Club, YWCA, or ALC @school). 
    There seem to be a lot of choices for us here in Nashua - but not all
    fit the schedules.
    
    1993 should be a piece of cake for me!  Both kids will take the bus and
    he out of the house by 8:10 and I can get to work for 8:20!  Some
    things get easier as they get older 8^)
    
    -sandy
    

    re: .4
    
    This is a pretty good summary of all the reasons why we sent 
    Steven to private kindergarten, in the same school where he'd been
    going for preschool.  
    
    They offered a complete full-day program (classes in the morning,
    creative play and other activities in the afternoon) and by the
    time we took into account the logistical hassles of getting him
    from the public school to a caregiver, and the cost of the
    afternoon's care, it didn't work out any more expensive.  
    
    --bonnie

re: .0

I don't think you're premature in thinking about this problem.

It might increase the relevance of the replies if you say where you live.  I 
assume from your node that you work in Maynard (in fact we're probably in the 
same building).

Clay

    I agree with one of the previous replies in check with the school
    committee and also your daycare.  My daughter's daycare (and old
    daycare) both had children dropped off and picked up at the daycare. 
    One of the concerns with the parents for this September is that the bus
    was going to pick up the K children at the corner of a busy street and
    not in front of the center.  This was fought and now the bus will pick
    up in front of the center.
    
    From my personal experience of riding school busses (grades 3-12), I do
    not want my children riding them.  And now in Westford, I believe that
    the Kindergarten children ride on the same bus as the older children
    (this was due to cutbacks).  In 3 years when Jackie starts school, I
    will try and either driver her myself, or make arrangements for someone
    to take her and pick her up (at least until she's a bit older than 5).
    
    Mary
    

    
    RE: <<< Note 206.7 by MRSTAG::MTAG >>>
    > From my personal experience of riding school busses (grades 3-12), I do
    > not want my children riding them.  
    
    Can you please offer some details around your opinion? I did not go 
    to ele/high school in the USA; so I am quite ignorant about school
    buses etc.  Thanks.
    
    Pam
    

    Is there a KinderCare near you?? This is a combination kindergarten-day 
    care ..  I missed reading about the area you are interested in ?? But 
    there are KinderCares everywhere.. Milford, Marlboro, Framingham...
                                                                       

    Here's some thoughts from my fuzzy thinking.
    
    We are currently rethinking whether AJ will in fact attend "public"
    kindegarten in the fall.  His preschool is certified to teach at a
    kindegarten level, and we feel he will be prepared enough to enter
    first grade, a full day program, a year from September.
    
    Here are a couple other options to explore.  The preschool we use will
    put the kids on the bus for the town kindegarten, and retrieve them at
    the end of the session and keep them at the center until parents pick
    up in the evening.  Parents still drop off at their normal morning
    time, provide a lunch, and pick the kids up after work at the end of
    the day.  Problem for us is that our town is Not in the school exchange
    program with any other town, so we can't enroll him in kindegarten in
    the town where the pre-K is located.
    
    another option is to check with your town for alternate session and
    after school programs.  Our town offers a program which is sort of like
    kindegarten but is offered during the half day when the child is NOT
    attending public school.  Some of the 766 programs can be arranged
    during this period as well so no regular kindegarten time is missed.
    There is a program that runs from end of the the school day until 5:30
    which is more like non-curriculum, more like arts and crafts.  Both of
    these programs have separate charges.  The half day thing is like
    $60/per week, the after school program is like $20 per week, parents
    are responsible only for picking up the children from the after school
    program.  There is a similar program offered for $10/day during school
    vacation breaks and a summer program as well.
    
    Some towns are also experimenting with full day kindegarten.  I think
    Northboro did at one point, not sure if it still exists.
    
    My feeling is that if he can get a good solid foundation for first
    grade, while attending a preschool program that he's been in for a
    while, and it won't interfere with your working schedule, then why
    change anything.  Kindegarten is NOT legally required, according to my
    school department.  Children are not required to be in school until the
    first grade.
    
    contact me off line if you need more info.
    Lyn

Lyn is correct. At the moment Kindergarten is not mandatory for the child. It is
mandatory that the public school offer a Kindergarten program. However, it is
expected that Early Childhood education (3,4, and 5 year olds) will be mandated
for the 93/94 school year as part of the Massachusetts Education Reform Act. I 
say expected because we still aren't sure when the legislature will address it.
We do know it won't be for the 92/93 year.

    In NH it isn't even mandatory to offer kindergarten. 
    
    --bonnie

    Re 206:  Can you tell us more about the Mass. Education Reform Act,
    perhaps in a new note?  Thanks,
    -Tracy
    

    
    There are notes in the CNOTES::EDUCATION_ISSUES and in
    NOTED::MASSACHUSETTS. 
    
    At the current time it appears that there will not be any reform
    legislation until Sept-Oct time frame. This would most likely not 
    take effect until the 1993/94 school year. There is a court case
    pending (due for trial in October) that could severely impact the
    way we pay for education.

    This may be out of date now .. but when my daughter started
    kindergarten 4 years ago in Leominster MA ... we were told that the
    STATE REQUIRED that ALL kindergarten students be BUSED (regardless of
    the distance from school).  In addition, they told us that the STATE
    requires all kindergarten and first grade students MUST be SEATED on
    the bus.  The bus company can be fined if this doesn't happen.
    
    Bob O.
    

It's not quite that strong. The DOE advises that all Kindergarten children be
bussed. There is no law stating that they must be bussed. Chapter 71 Section
68 of the General Laws establishes a 2 mile limit for all students. That was
amended in the FY92 budget to apply only to grades K-6. Students in grades
7-12 have no walking limit and school committees are under no obligation to
transport them. School Committees routinely bus Kindergarteners, for safety 
reasons, either directly from their doors to school or from bus stops that are
much closer to their homes. Most school committees will bus to daycare centers
as well. School systems are reimbursed from the state for each student they
transport whose home or daycare provider is more than 1.5 miles from the
school they attend.   

    Been on vacation, so didn't have a chance to answer .5 (or was it
    .6)...
    
    I live in Beverly.  

Does anyone have information on what the state regulations are on busing for
Kindergarten students? 

What is the policy in your home town?

I live in Westborough and I was unhappy to find out that my Kindergartener is
supposed to wait on Route 30. Although there will be some older kids around
for part of his wait, they take a different bus and may be picked up 
before him. There are no other Kindergarteners in our 
immediate area, so my son will be left waiting by himself
on Route 30. This part of Route 30 has a fair amount of fast traffic and also
has lots of trees and only a couple of homes within view of the bus stop. I
am worried about an accident or someone grabbing him.

I called the busing rep at the School to see if the stop could be changed to
anywhere inside my development, where it is much safer. 
She told me that it could not and informed me that the only regulation is
that busing be provided for children living over a mile from school.
(Although Westboro's policy is to bus Kindergartener's that live over 1/2 mile.)
She indicated that parents in my area petitioned last February to have the
bus come into our neighborhood and were turned down. (I am new to the town.)

I will pursue this further with the town, but I'm not too hopeful. Although I
had planned on waiting with my son the first couple of weeks, I had hoped that
he might go on his own later. But this requires a safe stop in my eyeshot or 
that of a watchful neighbor. (As I said, older kids will be waiting part
of the time and it is a bit embarrassing to have your Mom and baby sister
waiting with you.) Either that, or I will drive him to/from school. Of course,
then he misses the socialization of the bus ride, which I think is important. 

Others experiences may help me except (or deal) with my first interaction with
"the school system".
 
Thanks,
 
Marguerite

>   waiting with you.) Either that, or I will drive him to/from school. Of
>   course, then he misses the socialization of the bus ride, which I
>   think is important. 

   Frankly I wouldn't worry about this part.  What little I recall about
   my experiences on school busses is not worth remembering.  What I
   recall of school bus "socialization" wasn't terribly social.
   
   just mho,
   
   - Tom

    I would definitely pursue the petition again; have everyone sign it,
    not just the parents of kindergartners.  We have been successful in our
    town (Auburn, MA) in moving unsafe bus stops in this way.  The bus
    comes right down our street and in fact stops at each child's house.
    I agree that Route 30 is not safe and I would wait with your child on
    that road.
    
    On a different, but related topic:  Today, I brought my 5 1/2-year-old
    to daycare in a car seat; tomorrow, she starts kindergarten and will go
    on a bus with no seat belts.  I'm very uncomfortable with this.  What
    is the rationale behind not requiring seat belts on buses?  It's crazy.
    The bus company that our daycare center sometimes uses for field trips
    does have seat belts on its buses, but not the bus company that our
    town uses.  Has any had any experience in persuading their town or bus
    company to start using seat belts?
    
    -Tracy
    

    You'll be told that the kids will just hit each other with the
    seat belts, and it's ridiculous to expect a bus driver to enforce
    yet another rule, and the added violence will cause more
    accidents.
    
    --bonnie

    
    Do school buses have a responsible adult or older children who act 
    as bus monitors and enforce rules?  Or does the driver do it all?
    
    (Pardon the ignorance, but I did not go to school in the US of A.)
    
    Pam 

    Bonnie--
    
    Were you given this excuse by your school system?  It's crazy.  For 
    one thing, isn't hitting the other children--with ANYTHING--already
    against the rules?  Apparently, there are school systems that
    successfully do use buses with seat belts.  Do they suffer from rampant
    seat belt wars?
    
    -Tracy
     
    
    
    

    Well, I live in Nashua NH and we do not have any transportation
    available for K students.  I will, therefore, be driving my K and 1st
    grader to school and be late for work.  We have a bus-stop right in our
    neighborhood - off the beaten path, but as for socialization - little
    kids are targets for the bigger kids.  Don't feel that is a
    socialization the kids need....
    
    -sandy (former bus student in MA)
    

As a School Board member in Holliston Mass. I can attest to the fact that this
is a never ending, never satisfying problem.

state laws/regs:

	Simply put (I know the legislature never does this!) a town is required
to bus all students in grades K-6 who live more than 2 miles from the school 
they attend. They cannot walk more than 2 miles to the nearest bus stop. 

	Most communities half a 1.5 mile rule because the state actually 
reimburses funds for students bussed more than 1.5 miles.

	The issue of safety is emotional and fraught with subjective opinions.
Most school systems used to pick up Kindergarteners at their doors. However,
with budgets being as tight as they are this practice has pretty much 
disappeared. I would be extremely concerned about a group of Kindergarteners
standing on Rte 30. I would ask for the bus stop to be moved to the nearest
side street. It appears that you have had unsatisfactory response from the
bus coordinator (not unexpectedly). I would call the child's principal first
and if it appears that the principal is concerned then give it a few days
to escalate through the channels. If you aren't satisfied call the 
superintendent. Only after you've exhausted these routes should you involve
the school committee. The only exception would be if you use written 
correspondence. Then I would copy the board chair.


	There are regulations on school bus safety included in Chapter 90 of
the Mass. General Laws. They deal mostly with equipment types, driver 
qualifications, and special traffic laws. There is no mandate for seat belts
in school buses. 

re: .1

I agree with Tom.

I never rode a school bus, but my kids have for six years now.  The school bus 
is where they learned:

	- sexist cheers and sayings
	- dirty jokes
	- vulgar and profane language
	- how to pass gas from various body orfices at will, or imitate the 
	  sound thereof (how's that for an intellectual way of expressing it?)
	- other miscellaneous ways of offending their parents' sensibilities

School buses aren't _bad_; they probably would have been exposed to that stuff 
anyway, on the playground.  But as a socialization tool, I don't think buses 
are terribly positive.

The only advantage that I can think of is that in our school district, 
children from more than one elementary school ride the same bus.  The bus was 
an opportunity for my kids to socialize with kids from other elementary 
schools.

re: .4

School bus monitors have been used from time to time, but in tight budget 
times like these, they are among the first things to be cut.  I don't know of 
any successful volunteer programs.

And, unfortunately, older kids are often the worst misbehavers.

re: seat belts

I've heard arguments both ways.  One reason that they aren't as essential in a 
school bus as in a car is that the biggest hazard in a car -- getting thrown 
clear of the car -- isn't as likely in a bus.  And in the event that the bus 
had to be evacuated, seat belts would act as a hindrance.

Clay

    Are there any laws about sidewalks and bus stops? Can a child be required
    to walk on a street with no sidewalks to get to the bus stop? It will
    be a few years before I have to contend with this, but the nearest bus
    stop to my house is on Rt. 117 (Stow) and my street has fast traffic
    and no sidewalks. 
    
    -Andrea-

RE: .27

Sorry, but there are no STATE laws requiring sidewalks as a precursor to 
students walking to school. The only other restriction I'm aware of is that
school buses are not allowed to travel on a private way.

    .27 is right.  In Beverly, many kids walk to the middle school
    and the high school on Elliott Street.  If you want to walk on
    the sidewalk, you have to keep criss-crossing this busy (18-
    wheelers and the whole bit) street.  Not my idea of fun or
    safety, even for a high-schooler.  People have been complaining
    to the School Committee, citing state laws, but essentially 
    the School Committee can't really do anything.  
    
    Getting to my basenote for a minute, Elaine (my caregiver) is
    making noises like she'd be glad to drive James to kindergarten.
    An alternative would be for me to (a) do it myself, perhaps
    alternating mornings with my husband; (b) get a carpool together
    and drive every third or fourth morning; (c) make some kind of
    arrangement with my MIL (the school is right down at the end of
    their street), drop James off at her house and have her take him
    to school on her way to work.  That leaves a hole in the pick-up
    arrangements, but.....
    
    Thanks to all who have written and are continuing to contribute.
    I feel much better knowing that I'm not alone in worrying about
    this.
    
    And to the noter who wrote about the school bus stop on Rt. 30 --
    keep working to get it moved!  I've driven Rt. 30 myself, and it's
    a creepshow for a skilled adult driver -- imagine what it must be
    like for a little kid who's barely 4 feet tall, with all those
    cars and trucks whizzing past at (what seems like) a million miles
    per hour.

Well, I also live in Nashua and have had to deal with the transportation system
on numorous occasions.  My son is special needs and rides one of the small
buses that comes right to the door.  However, the transportation department
refused to use separate pickup and dropoff locations. (My son used to go to his
daycare provider after school).  So I now have him in the aftercare program
(which by the way I am not too thrilled with this year)

Now, as for kindergarten, I have a little one and I already know the hassle
that this is going to be.  I live in Nashua and work in Salem (35 minutes away)
A little addition:  drop off at 8:30  at work at 9:00 (if the traffic is good)

Not to mention how in the heck I will get my son from school to daycare.

Oh well, I still have a couple of more years before I need to worry about it.

Deb