Conference moira::parenting

    I wish it were easy to re-assure your friend -- but a big part of
    being pregnant is the emotional swings we all go through during
    that time.
    
    We have one boy now, and am now pregnant (about 4 months), with number
    two, after having had a miscarriage last August.  The only thing I can
    tell your friend is, she's not alone & what she feels is not unusual.
    I'm at my fourth month & I'm still scared sometimes.  In fact, after
    reaching week twelve & not hearing a heartbeat, I asked for an ultra-
    sound.  The test was fine -- the technician checked for all the usual
    vitals (brain, heart, digestive system), and they were okay.  All arms
    & legs present & accounted for!
    
    Talking to others about her fears will be a big help -- especially if
    the people she talks to know enough not to "brush off" her fears -- 
    they are very real to her (I know!)  
    
    Regarding her symptoms -- they are fairly common too.  I am still
    experiencing severe headaches & am also dealing with sinus problems
    as a result of my pregnancy.  Hormones do wonderful things to you
    when you're pregnant.  The body aches will (or most likely)
    continue, throughout the pregnancy -- tell her to take these as
    positive signs that her body is adjusting & growing -- muscles will
    very definitely be protesting as the baby begins to grow.
    
    Tell her to feel free to give me a call -- nothing like sharing 
    common fears & pains with someone else who's living it too!  Or she
    can write me.  By the way -- if she hasn't gotten one yet, she might
    want to consider getting a book I've reviewed many times through
    my first pregnancy & am using to refresh my memory & reassure myself
    this time -- "What to Expect When You're Expecting".  It's a great
    book.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Linda

    Please tell your friend not to worry.  I went through the same thing.
    I was paranoid at every Dr.'s appt. that we wouldn't hear the
    heartbeat.  It wasn't until I was 17 weeks along and could feel the
    baby that I felt more at ease.  The Dr. told me that one miscarriage
    is very common, and they felt confident that this one would be fine.
    
    Sue

   My wife had a miscarriage several years ago... its not easy to see
   someone have to deal with that inside themselves and sometimes
   there wasn't much I could say or do ....   However... I am pleased
   to be able to report that after that, we have 3 beautiful girls!  I
   suspect that once your friend feels a little more comfortable
   talking to people about this, she will find that its a lot more
   common than she ever knew.  We heard from quite a few people
   afterwards about their own situations, or people they knew, or even
   sometimes their parents.  Its not something that most people bring
   up in casual conversation, so its not something that many of us
   hear about unless you live through it.
   
   Good Luck.
   
   - Tom

I miscarried at the end of my third month between my two boys.  A miscarriage is
incredibly emotionally draining but at least if you've had one pregnancy to
term, you know that you can do it.  I feel very much for your friend who must
wonder if this is going to happen again.  As others have said, this is a common 
occurance but I'm sure that is little comfort to her fears.

When I became pregnant the third time, the doctor ordered a whole battery of
blood and urine tests to assure that all the hormone levels were correct.  It
was suspected that in the failed pregnancy I didn't have high enough hormone
levels to sustain the pregnancy.  Then, in the beginning, I had more frequent 
appointments to assure that everything was proceeding ok.  They took enough 
blood to supply a major blood bank :-).  At the end, I also had more frequent 
checkups because my first was a Caesarian.

I won't say "don't worry" but encourage your friend to alleviate her worry
with whatever safe additional testing can be done.  Nothing felt better to me
than to hear the doctor say, "Test ... came back and everything is fine" :-)

Good luck to her.

ccb

    I had quite a few miscarriages, but I have two handsome little boys
    after all we went through.  Each time I was pregnant the first
    trimester was HELL.  As long as I was sick, bloated and having pains
    I knew the pregnancy was fine and fetus was developing. If I didn't
    feel sick, bloated etc.. I immediately called the doctor for a checkup
    and ultrasound, (My doctor trusts my instincts 100%) which each
    time showed a miscarriage.  So in my case it's a catch-22 when I'm 
    pregnant as long as I am sick in the first trimester all is well, if
    I'm not then I know something is wrong. 
    
    Each person is different and every pregnancy is different. If your
    friend is uncomfortable ans scared  then as mentioned in earlier
    replies suggest she call her doctor and have an HCG blood test or 
    ultrasound done for reasurrance. I have an ultrasound picture of 
    Mike (1 years old - May 14th) when I was six weeks pregnant.  
    
    My best and prayers to her that all goes well.
    
    - Pat K.

    Thanks for the replies and good wishes, which I have read over the phone 
    to my co-worker.  She is still home because of the cramping she has. 
    She has had two HSG tests and sonograms, and so far everything looks
    fine, although she is waiting for her doctor to get back to her with
    the results of the latest tests.
     
    Her major concern is with the cramping and pain that she feels, which
    apparently is much, much stronger than period cramps, and has her
    doubled over at times.  So far, nothing has come up to explain the
    pains - she is hoping they are growing pains.
    
    I am really keeping my fingers crossed for her.  I have had two ectopic 
    pregnancies in the past year, and know how devastating losing a pregnancy
    can be. 
    
    Cathryn

    I can't remember at what point in pregnancy I felt this, but it was
    pretty scary.  I would get this awful stitch in my side, always the 
    same side.  At times I would have to stop walking and try to relax
    before I could walk again.   My doctor told me the uterus is surrounded
    by ligaments that need to stretch during pregnancy and that nothing was
    wrong....I was still pretty nervous...but she was right...nothing
    wrong!  Perhaps this is the pain she is experiencing....hope all goes 
    well!
    
    Linda
    

    
    I never had a miscarriage, but endured the same type of pain she is
    describing in the first few mos of pregnancy also. Again, it was
    diagnosed as ligaments stretching.  There is a whole note on it in the
    last volume of PARENTING. Its pretty common.
    
    Wishing her luck on the rest of her pregnancy.
    Chris
    

    My sister had that kind of cramping during her pregnancy. Turned out
    to be a dying fibroid, which causes sharp stabbing pain for about a
    week or two. That's a possibility.
    
    cyn

    All I can say in reassurance is that I have had two miscarriages ...
    first pregnancy miscarried, second pregnancy healthy daughter, third
    pregnancy miscarried, fourth pregnancy am currently 33 weeks and so far
    so good.  I don't recall the types of pains you are mentioning, but I
    can tell you that after a miscarriage (or two...) your friend will
    probably be a nut-case for a while...at least I was.  Having an early
    ultrasound at 7-8 weeks to hear/see a heartbeat was incredibly
    reassuring.  But even that did not erase all the fear/concern, altho,
    as I said, it was of immense help to me.  Perhaps your friend's doctor
    will arrange for an early ultrsound to help calm her fears...  
    
    Afte rre-reading this note, I guess I'm not really answering your/her
    specific questions, but let her know, it is ENTIRELY normal to be so
    worried after a miscarriage, there are LOTS of us who can totally
    empathize/sympathize...
    
    Paula
    
    

    I was so scared when I first got pregnant after my miscarriage and I
    still am.  I'm just 14 weeks now and will feel a lot better once I
    have an ultra-sound. I too am having very similar pain to what your
    friend described. Sometimes it's so bad I can't move.

    This past week I broke out in a cold sweat, began to shake all over and
    couldn't focus. This lasted about 5 minutes. I was so scared I just
    wanted to go home and die.  My doctor won't do an ultra-sound until
    I'm 16 weeks, so I just have to keep the right attitude until then.

    One encouraging sign is at 8 weeks I heard the heart beat.  I keep
    telling myself that every pregnancy is different and this is just
    unusual symptoms.

    I read a couple of notes in the old parenting notes conference that
    helped a great deal.  Good luck and feel free to write if you have any
    questions.

    Sue

This note is being entered for a member of the PARENTING notesfile community
who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.

Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me start out by explaining why I'm writing this letter anonymously. I had a
miscarriage in Feb. at about 11 weeks. I wasn't that sick with the pregnancy so
I hadn't told many people at work. Well, I made the decision not to tell
them when I had a miscarriage because it was a very personal matter to me
and my husband and we didn't think anyone else needed to know about it. With
that said, I would like to comment on this note and add a question of my own.

My husband and I have waited the recommended 2 mths after a D&C and are trying
to get pregnant again this month. My concern is that I've had mild cramping
for about 2 weeks from about 2 weeks into my cycle. I don't know what to think
about this. I'm hoping something is not wrong but that's the first thing that
comes to mind. The first time I got pregnant I had the same mild cramping but
it wasn't until after I found out I was pregnant (about 6 weeks). I wonder if
I'm pregnant again and my body is reacting to it faster this time or if I have
a problem like an infection or something.

I know I should probably call my doctor but I'm waiting 'til the end of this
week to find out if I'm pregnant or not before calling him.

Has anyone had any troubles with cramping when trying to get pregnant again
after a miscarriage?

Also, I'd like to know how the person talked about in the base note is doing?
Are you still having pains? What does your doctor say about them?

thanks for any input.

    
    	I have a little theory about second (third, fourth, etc)
    pregnancies. I think that your body *knows* what it is supposed to do
    and so gets right down to work.
    
    	If you are pregnant, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that
    you are experiencing the same cramps that you felt before but earlier
    this time.
    
    	Most women that I know (relatively small sample here) get more
    tired, gain weight faster, have more symptoms and generally "show"
    sooner than they did for the first pregnancy.
    
    	That said, it is entirely possible that you are pregnant again.
    
    	But, (and this is a very big BUT) if you even *suspect* that you
    may have an infection, you should make an apt. with your physician as
    soon as possible. Explain that you may be pregnant but are not sure.
    They would not do anything to you that might harm any developing baby. 
    
    	If you do have an infection, and leave it untreated, it might be
    harmful for the fetus. In cases like this, it is far better to be safe
    than sorry.
    
    	Let us know, what happens,
    	
    			Wendy 
    
                             

    I am entering this note for another  member of the PARENTING notesfile
    community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.

    Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod

------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I too miscarried early on.  I am now pregnant again, but I will
    not be telling anyone at work until I am past the first twelve
    weeks.  This is why I have to reply anonymously.

    The first time, I did not know I was pregnant until I was 7 weeks.

    This time I found out very early.  The clue was my breasts.  They
    were very very sore from day 14 onwards.  By day 18 I was getting
    excited at the thought of being pregnant again.  Day 19 I had the
    most awful cramps and was convinced that this was the start of a
    period.  Day 20 dawned and no period.  I did a pregnancy test,
    expecting it to be negative.  I did it to shut myself up and stop
    hoping.  It was positive!!!!!!  Day 21 I did a different test, to
    be really sure.  That was also positive.

    My cramping was only for one day, so I'm not sure how much help I
    can be.  But the reason I wrote is to say it might be worth doing
    a test.

    I hope this helps.

I also would urge you to contact your doctor as soon as possible.  I also
miscarried and then became pregnant 2 months later.  The doctor wanted to 
know as early as possible for my third pregnancy (the one after the miscarriage)
so that he could run all kinds of tests to assure my hormone levels were 
correct.  If you have just miscarried and become pregnant again, your hormones
may not have had time to adjust enough to sustain the pregnancy.  They can then
treat this if they know.  If it is just an infection, better to clear it 
sooner than later.

And do it for your own peace of mind :-)

Good luck,
Cheryl

    The person I wrote about in the basenote is doing fine and thanks
    everyone for their responses.  Extreme cramping has given way to mild
    cramping.  She is still a little concerned, but given the circumstances
    that is normal.
    
    RE: 12 - I would definitely see your doctor if your cramping is
    unusually or if you think you might be pregnant.  If you are pregnant,
    your doctor can do an early beta test and check your hormone levels to
    be sure that everything is going well.  If it is an infection, you'll
    want to clear that up quickly, too.  Good luck!!
    
    Cathryn

	I had 4 miscarriage's before I had my daughter.  Its funny
	on the 4 miscarriage's I did not have any pain at all, but
	with my daughter I pain most of the time.  My doctor explained
	that it was the pelvic muscles and tendons stretching.

	When I found out I was pregnant for the 5th time I refused to
	be excited or even happy for a long time, in fact at one point
	I started to spot and figured that it was over with "again"
	but I now have a 3 year old little girl.  The hard part is
	that no matter what anyone says you know it can happen and
	your afraid..

	sue




   

    Well,  my co-worker finally found out what was causing her all the pain
    and cramping - she has fibroids.  Apparently, they were so small that
    they didn't show up on earlier sonograms, nor had they given her any
    trouble when she wasn't pregnant.
    
    She is relieve to finally find out what was causing the pain, and
    that it will not cause any complications with her pregnancy.  
    
    Cathryn

    I am about 17 weeks along in my pregnancy, and have had a lot of pain
    in my sides.  Good ol' ligament pain, I"m told.  It's actually calmed
    down alot now.  Now I have a lot of pain in my pelvic area, which I
    guess is normal but generally happens a  bit later in the pregnancy. 
    Anyone else have this pain?  It hurts when I lift a leg (like to put on
    pants), or roll over in bed.  I was told that if it was my pelvis
    softening, that late in the pregnancy I would be in a lot of pain and
    have difficulty in walking.
    
    I never expected all these pains!  It is scary, and I'm still nervous
    about miscarrying, although I've been reassured that everything is
    normal and the baby is growing fine.  THe heartbeat is strong, which is
    a good sign, and the amnio is normal!  I'm not nearly as scared now,
    but the first three months were definitely scary!
    
    Jennifer
    

Yes, I have pelvic pain too.  With my first pregnancy, during the last month
I thought I had sprained a groin muscle, because everytime I rolled over in
bed it would wake me up.

This time it isn't as intense, but it can still hurt (I'm in my 21st week).
Sometimes it hurts to stand on one leg, which I find "interesting".

    I had pain that felt like a strained/sprained muscle very low in my
    pelvis. Things like getting out of the car, out of the bath, putting on
    underwear, etc. all aggrevated it. It never got any worse and
    surprisingly I still felt it about a week after delivery. What did get
    worse was the baby sitting on my nerves causing extreme pain in my hips
    and legs.

    I have a bad back, and everytime my sciatica decides to go into spasm,
    what hurts is not my back itself, it's a real cutting pain that is in
    the groin and down the front of my thigh.
    
    I would almost wonder if the baby is sitting near the sciatica nerve?
    
    Lyn

    I got pregnant 2 weeks after a miscarriage, (that was a fun hormonal
    ride!  ~8-}   ) and had intense pain in my hips and legs in the first
    trimester...ultrasounds showed no problem and the problem alleviated
    itself, so I felt great!!! the second trimester and had a quick (I
    still can't say truely "easy") delivery. I was very worried; here the
    baby would fit on the end of my pinky finger, and I couldn't move my
    legs--what would happen when he grew??!  But it all worked out
    okay...although I would not want that hormonal activity again...
    
    Adrienne
    

    
    I lost a son a year ago this past Nov. 30, he was stillborn at 20 weeks
    pregnant.  I'm now 16 weeks pregnant and had severe cramping until
    about week 12 or 13.  Lots and lots of ligament stretching and for
    about a week, what felt like a pulled muscle and was very painful.  I
    now only occasionally have cramps.  I also spotted in early weeks so
    I've had an ultrasound already at 7 weeks and another one in a week. 
    I've heard the heartbeat several times already (and it's fast but still
    normal range due to an inhaler I have to use for asthma). I've already
    had a terrible bout with bronchitis and on top of all that, threw up
    2-3 times a day until week 13!  
    
    Even with all the sickness *somewhat* behind me (I'm still coughing),
    my attitude is not always so postitive to say the least!
    
    It took me a good 8 - 9 months to deal with the grief over losing my son
    Nicholas, and before I could even think about handling another
    pregnancy emotionally!  Even though I'm glad I took the time to deal
    with my grief and I sought counseling from two sources (support group
    and pastoral counselor), I'm still having a very hard time convincing
    myself that everything will be ok.  
    
    My husband (and several friends & co-workers) deserve a medal for
    putting up with my mood swings and this emotional roller coaster ride
    I'm on!
    
    Now that I'm starting to show, I have a question for anyone who has
    experienced a loss.  I know people that I come across in doing my job,
    that don't know me or my situation, will inevitability ask "is this
    your first?"  I don't know how to handle this question????
    
    I don't think I could answer yes without feeling very guilty and like I
    was denying Nicholas in some way.  And yet, it puts the other person,
    especially a virtual stranger, in an awkward position to hear that you
    had a stillborn baby.   In the past year and half, I've had people that
    don't know me well, ask if I had any children, and so I've already
    confronted this difficult question. But that only happened once or twice
    and I know now that I'm pregnant, it will happen more often and I need
    to be prepared with a response so I don't end up in tears due to
    frustration!
    
    Any advise on handling this situation?
    
    Thanks in advance
    Loreen
        

   re: .24  "Is this your First" question
   
   Speaking for myself and maybe for others who have that embarassing
   "put foot in mouth" disease, I can say that your concern for these
   people who don't know you well is greatly appreciated.   You are
   right, it is a little awkward to be making light conversation about
   "is this your first", and then to get some heavy news like yours.  

   On the other hand, just remember that you are not responsible for
   other people's thoughts or feelings.  You can't control how other
   people will handle your news.  Speaking as someone who might hear this
   news and not someone who has been through a loss like yours, I
   personally believe that my reaction to your news will be affected by
   your reaction to sharing it.  That is, if you are comfortable with
   sharing the news, it will make it a little easier for me to receive
   it.
   
   I don't know the stats on stillbirths, but after we went through a
   miscarriage, I was astounded to find out just how common it really
   was.  You may find that true here as well, and you may find that
   most people are not nearly as uncomfortable with the news as you might
   expect.
   
   Oh, something else too.. be ready to get back some heavy news if you
   chose to share yours.  From what I've seen, news like this can lead
   some people to share news of their own - almost in the manner of "can
   you top this".  If you chose to share your news, be forewarned that
   some people will in turn lay some their own news on you - you might
   want to avoid sharing your news on days when you're not feeling
   emotionally solid enough to deal with other peoples' losses.
   
   Peace,
   
   - Tom
   

    Tom,
    
    Thanks for your ideas.  You're absolutely right about my reaction
    affecting theirs.  When it was still fairly soon after Nicholas and I
    was asked "do you have any children" - I was in no way emotionally
    ready to answer and so I just said No and left it at that, saving
    everyone the embarresment.  But now, I'm very used to talking about him
    and my experience and can do it without tears.  But, given my emotional 
    state of being these days, if I'm asked, I guess I would decide 
    what I share or don't share depending on the *mood* I'm in.  
    This is very good advice!
    
    You're right too that sharing your news brings out lots of hidden
    stories and personal experiences of others.  This is actually quite a
    comfort, to know you're not alone.  But these days, there are times
    when I don't want to hear someone else's horror stories, especially
    when it specifically feeds on a worry I'm currently having.  This is
    not something I thought about so I really appreciate your insight and
    will keep that in mind.
    
    I was wondering if people that have had first trimester miscarriages
    have felt this way too?  Even though Nicholas never took a breath of
    the air you and I breath, he lived in me, and to me, was very much
    *alive*.  And I very much consider him my first child. 
    
    Thanks for your input!
    Loreen
    
    

    I am astounded by how often my grief still comes up and 
    attacks me. Two weeks ago I commemorated the 2nd anniversary
    of Daniel's stillbirth. (I find it so strange that we originally
    had chosen Nicholas for a boy, but decided against this name for 
    our child after his delivery).
    
    NOTHING will stop you from worrying about subsequent pregnancies,
    even if they are event-free. Don't beat yourself up for feeling
    concern - it will be there until the baby comes into the world. 
    You literally have to take it one day at a time. 
    
    "today, I am feeling concern, but for today, the baby is fine. I
    am fine, we will both survive today". That's the chant I recited to
    myself each morning.
    
    As far as people's reaction - I rarely had an instance where people
    tried to "top that tragedy". I sometimes felt that I should just take
    the question literally depending on how it was phrased. Is this 
    your first pregnancy? No. Is this your first baby? (Live?) yes. If
    in my judgement I felt either strong enough that day to talk
    about it, I would tell them about Daniel. (provided I felt that
    this person should be "allowed" into my life).
    Use your own judgement each time this comes up. It is STILL something
    I have to do when people see Charlotte.
    
    My heart goes out to you. Please please let us know how you are
    doing, and please feel free to write me a note (even if you just 
    want to have a stranger's shoulder to cry on) at any time!
    
    Take care,
    Monica
    
    P.S. Charlotte is Absolutely Wunderbar!!

    I don't know if this will help you, but I worked with someone that used
    to say "This is my second pregnancy but my only child", that
    wasn't her standard to everyone that asked, but usually the person she 
    was addressing understood that she had lost a baby without going into 
    unwated detail at the time.  Guess it depended on if she felt like
    talking about it or not.  My sympathy and understanding go to you
    for living with your grief every day, but also my congradulations
    on your pregnancy.  Regards, Sandy
    

     
    Monica, I read Charlotte's birth announcement in the announcement note
    - I am very happy for you and your husband! 
    
    I know anniversaries can be difficult and the grief never really goes
    away all together, it just becomes something you learn to live with. I
    found a great amount of healing myself in helping others.  My very best
    friend had a baby girl this past Sept. and because of severe chromosome
    defects, she only lived 5 hours.  In being there for her and helping
    her through these past 8 months, I have also healed myself - again. 
    It's human nature to feel good when you help someone else which is why
    I am really glad I found this conference, because that's what it's all
    about.  
    
    The "one day at time" is advice I remember giving her.  But sometimes
    when you're emotionally in the *middle* of something, you forget your
    own advice - so thanks for reminding me.  
    
    Nicholas was the first name I thought of on finding out I was pregnant
    (I had a feeling it was a boy) but when I put it with Kobilarcsik, I
    eventually changed my mind.  But when he was born, it seemed like
    that's what we should name him.  On the very day he was born, another
    friend was being injected with fertilized eggs through INVITRO after 7
    yrs. of trying different things.  When her healthy son was born 9 mos.
    later she asked me how I felt if she named him Nicholas.  I was so
    honored and so happy for her!  It is strange that you considered this
    name too.
    
    I'm especially nervous/uptight/cranky... this week because I am having
    an AFP (triple check) test tomorrow.   After much debate and sleepless
    nights on deciding whether to even have it, unless I chicken out at
    the last minute, it's scheduled.  I know there is much controversy over
    this test and it's discussed in another note, but for me, I simply need
    to know if this baby is genetically ok.  If the test shows need for
    further testing, I don't know if I'll have any because I don't want an
    amnio.  Why live with the uncertainty of a possible false positive?  
    I live with it everyday anyway... Does that make sense?
    
    So, now I start the waiting game and it makes it very hard to
    concentrate today.
    
    I also like the last note's advice "This is my second pregnancy but
    will be my only child".  I like this a lot.  Especially saying "only"
    instead of "first"!  
    
    Thanks for the advice!  I'm sorry if my thoughts seem jumbled - I can't
    seem to organize them very well these days!
    
    Loreen
	
    

Hang in there.......If it helps, I'll be saying a 
silent prayer for both you and the baby.


I "lost" 2 pregnancy's at under 1 month.....and
sometimes people don't understand but it hurt 
just as much!  We have also had 4 adoptions fall
through (3-boys & 1-girl)- the girl we had for 1 1/2
days....and we grieved each time.  But every time
I see one of my friends, co-workers & family successfully
have their children, I thank God for each and every one
of them.  And I share in their joy.  I'm still glad
I took these chances to be a Mom and if I was given 
the chance to do it again.....I would!  My husband and I 
are still trying to adopt.....we REFUSE to give up!!!!

Also, my mother lost her only son a few hours after
birth (he weighed over 8 lbs) and had a defect in
his heart.  Her and my father still celebrate his
birth privately, and he would have been 32 years old
last month.

Donna

    Donna
    
    I read your letter in 298 and read somewhere else in here about your
    most recent loss in March.  I am so sorry to hear about this and my 
    thoughts and prayers are with you too! 
    
    My husband's cousin is going through something similar.  After many
    many years, they are supposed to get a baby this summer.  The baby is
    due in July.  I don't know much about how the adoption is being handled
    (she lives out of state) but everyone is praying very hard that this
    works out for her!  The 'cousins' (my husband has 42 first cousins)
    here in Ohio are talking about giving her a shower in August if all
    goes well.  We haven't told her about it yet though.  
    
    I will certainly keep my eyes and ears open for any prospective
    birthmothers here in Cleveland.  BTW, are you caucasion? African
    American?  Do you have a preference to the race of the baby?  I'm sorry
    if I missed this info somewhere.
    
    Hang in there Donna!  
    Loreen
    

    We lost a son at 19 weeks (and a daughter at 17 weeks and a child of
    undetermined gender at 12 weeks).
    
    We don't tell random strangers about them (outside of special fora
    like Parenting conferences!), so my answer would have been "Yes".
    Non-strangers get amounts of the details we think right.
    
    	-John Bishop

    Loreen,

    First, congratulations on your pregnancy (and courage)!

    I lost my son Cody at 22 weeks, this was almost 6 months ago.  At first
    it was very hard to talk to anyone about this without being overly
    emotional, but I still wanted to talk about it.  I found that not many
    people were willing to talk (or listen) about this (I'm sure for fear
    of upsetting me) and I became angry at the world, thinking everyone but
    me has already forgotten about my baby.  After a couple months, I
    welcomed any opportunity to tell anyone who would listen about what had
    happened.  I'm sure part of this was looking for others who might offer
    some suggestion as to why this happened and to know that I wasn't
    alone.  And, another part of me just wanted to let everyone know that
    yes, I did have a baby, he only lived for an hour but I still have a
    son that we'll remember always.  Certainly everyone handles the grief
    and healing process differently and it's possible that I became angry
    with the world for reasons closer to home.  My sister's baby was born
    the same day as Cody and though we've never been close, not once has
    she said so much as "I'm sorry."  My sister-in-law, who I was much
    closer to, was a month behind me in her pregnancy and avoided me
    entirely after what happened to my baby.  She had twins 3 weeks ago and
    still hasn't bothered to call to tell us, we found out from others.  I
    think these two situations especially have something to do with me
    wanting to tell everyone else who asks about my son, but even without
    that happening, I do believe that it certainly helps the healing
    process to talk about it.  As Tom had pointed out, the way you tell
    people can certainly have an effect on how they accept what you tell
    them.  No, you can't tell something like this and look happy about it,
    but I've been able to tell anyone who asks the "how many children do
    you have" question about our son and give them the impression that
    "we're dealing with it, it's ok to talk about it."   You need to do
    what is best for you though, this is just what I've done that feels ok
    for me, and is how I can handle it best.  I know of many people that
    would disagree.

    just my .02...

    Congratulations again, I'm sure it must be hard to not worry all the
    time.  Actually, we are attempting to have another baby ourselves, I'm
    not even pregnant yet and I'm already worried!  Let us know how your
    doing.
    
    Jean

    Jean,
    
    I had to stop and think of where I was at 6 mos. after Nicholas - I was
    in Ireland.  I decided I  needed to get far far away for awhile.  My
    mother's family is still over there and I found great comfort in
    getting back to my roots at that time! 
    
    Not everyone can get far away though, so if you need to talk some more,
    even off-line, drop me a note.  I know how lonely grief can be. Even
    when you have good support people, friends, family, a group, whatever,
    you're still going through the dark nights alone.  You still feel like
    no one else will ever really feel the deep deep emptiness that you
    feel.  
    
    It's hard to comment about your SIL and sister's reactions without
    knowing them or your relationships with them.  I had many close
    friends that I was pregnant with and their reactions differed. 
    I like to give people the benefit of the doubt (especially people I
    dont' know) and say maybe they are avoiding you because they think it's
    best for you, because they don't want to rub your nose in their
    happiness.  Maybe some of it is just that they don't handle other's
    grief very well (I've come across many many people like this) or maybe
    they are just very unsure of how you feel.  Maybe telling them, making
    the first move.  Do you want to hear about their babies?  Tell them you do. 
    I personally appreciated a little bit of distance between myself and my
    friends that were new mothers and told them so and did so in a way that
    our friendships weren't harmed.  They were actually quite relieved to
    know 'where my head was' and how they should or shouldn't react to me.
    
    Sometimes the one that's grieving needs to let others know what they
    need from them, even if this is the hardest thing to do.  With some
    people, it's not worth the effort, but those closest to you, those that
    love you, it's worth it to let them know when they're doing or saying
    something that is hurting you and making things worse. MOst people just
    don't know what to say to you, if you tell them what you need and don't
    need, they will most likely be grateful.  If you keep it inside, it
    will only fester - forever.  
    
    I hope you can discuss your feelings with your SIL at least since you
    said you were closer to her.  I would be willing to bet it would make
    both of you feel much better!  I had many of these situations too. 
    People I loved very much and it felt like they were either deserting me
    or saying all the wrong things - I finally got up the courage to voice
    some of my feelings and things were once again 'ok' with us.  The few
    people (that I didn't care enough about to let into my world of hurt)
    that did say something totally stupid, well, now there is a void there,
    something I will always feel when I come across them.  Don't let this
    happen with the people you love. 
    
    I went to a support group a few times and recieved regular counseling
    from a priest at my parish who does a lot of counseling for parents who
    lose a child. He was absolutely wonderful, probably the most
    understanding person I have ever met.  I'm not pushing counseling, just
    saying it's an option for some.
    
    Take care of yourself and let me know how things work out with your
    relatives.
    
    Sorry if this is too personal but, do you think you'll try again?
    
    Loreen

RE: .31 Loreen,

1. Thanks, sometimes the road seems easier when it's
	shared! It's also nice to know people still care.

2. Remember, NO shower until the baby has been placed
	permanently in their home (what ever state 
	she is adopting in has their own waiting period).

3.  My husband and I are Caucasion (Combo: French,
	Irish, English, American Indian, ......)
	We are also open to any and all opportunities!


RE: .33

During my 5 1/2 years of infertility a "friend" of my
husband and I had 2 abortions (she's over 21 & married)!!
They felt it wasn't the right time - but they also 
didn't use birthcontrol????-the third pregnancy she 
kept.......needless to say, one never knows!

Donna

    
    Well, after all the anticipation to have the triple check test done, my
    doctor decided I should wait a few more days to get a more accurate reading
    (I was just 16 wks the day of my last appt.).  So now I'm going
    tomorrow for it.  Another week of waiting that I wasn't counting
    on...One day at a time is awfully hard to remember these days!
    
    BUT - on Saturday we heard the heartbeat again and I'm a good size for
    where I am.  With the last pregnancy, I loved my appointments because I
    looked forward to hearing the heartbeat, etc.  Now, the visits are just
    filled with worry and anxiety until I actually hear it. And the time it
    takes him to find it, well, you could cut the air with a knife and I
    find myself holding my breath until I hear it.  The whole time thinking
    "God, he's not finding it...oh no oh no oh no", and then he does and I
    breathe again.
                                                        
    Maybe when I start to feel the baby move, these doctor visits won't be
    as traumatic for me (and my husband, Greg - I think he holds his breath
    too!)
    
    I see my doctor every three weeks, I'm high risk for a number of
    reasons, so at least I get that 'confirmation' that everything's OK
    more often.
    
    At least Easter will be a little easier for me this year (I think).  My
    due date last time was Easter day.  Last Easter was the first
    anniversary of this.  My husband took me to a resort for that w/e about 
    2 hours drive from home.  It's a place on a lake with lots of woods. 
    It was a perfect quiet, peaceful place to be that w/e for both of us.  
    (Until we realized the 'easter bunny' was visiting the lodge and the 
    place was bombarded by kids).  But this year should be better...
    
    Hope everyone else going through this is doing OK!
    
    Loreen