Conference moira::parenting

    My Dr. had said that I could start Erica on whole milk anytime after
    10 months as long as she didn't have any reaction.
    
    I did try it at 10 months, but everytime she had whole milk, she would
    have diarrhea.  That lasted until she was about 13 - 14 months old.
    Then she was fine and loves her milk to no end today.
    
    I think it all depends on the child when they can begin to drink whole
    milk.
    
    

    Hello,
    
    I never did bother with cow's milk after my oldest and the "fun" we had
    with ear and sinus infections which the milk aparently triggered.  My
    kids have water and or juice when I am at work, with one bottle of
    breast milk/day with Carrie, and with Atlehi, frank has brought her in
    at lunch.  
    
    Once they are eating a variety of stuff, they get cheese and yogurt,
    during the day.  Apparently Lolita's response was triggered by
    something in uncultured milk.  With the misery she went through,
    regular milk is something that is a treat, once in a great while for
    the other kids, and they usually don't care enough to mess with it
    anyway.
    
    meg

I started Noelle on milk at 10 months on the advice of my
pedi.  She had no reaction to it (and *loved* it!!)

YMMV,

- Deb B.

    Ditto Deb's comment.  We started Katie on cow's milk 
    last month (with the pedi's ok) and she enjoys it
    much more than formula.
    
    	Linda

    I think Alex was about 10 months.  She was still nursing but getting
    formula in her sippy cup; I just introduced milk the way you introduce
    any new food (try it for a period of time [a week] without trying any
    *other* new food).  No adverse reaction.
    
    Leslie

    I started Dalton with his sippy cup at 10 months with formula in it.
    By 11 months it I was mixing half formula half whole milk and he was
    completly off the bottle by then.  He loved it.  He just turned one 
    year old on Friday and is now on whole milk only.  I slowly introduced
    whole milk so there would be no adverse reactions.  It worked out
    great!
    
    My pediatrician did say that there should be no hurry to put him 
    on whole milk because there is less fat in whole milk than formula
    and that he would start to lose weight.  But Dalton is far from
    being skinny so I was determined to have him on whole milk by 
    the time he was a year old.
    
    Now to get rid of that pacifier!!!!
    
    Bonnie
    

    forgot to mention, our pedi suggested that we slowly introduce
    milk.  We did it an ounce at a time.  Typically we tried 1oz
    milk to 5 oz formula for 3-4 days, then 2oz milk to 4oz formula.
    
    	Linda

    I heard one way to get rid of the pacifier.
    My friend told me about cutting a little piece
    of the nipple off until one day there was 
    nothing left to hold onto.  And the toddler
    was no longer interested (not getting "satisified"?).

    My son is 6 months old and is now being introduced to whole milk. 
    My son is a real good eater and eats just about anything, because 
    he eats so well his pedi said he could go on whole milk.  His reasoning 
    was that the baby is getting all his nutrients from his food and really
    does not need everything that the formula is offering him.  He did tell
    me to introduce him to it slowly thou.  So we have started out with a
    mix and he loves it.   The only bad thing is my son spits up and now
    it really smells sour.
    
    Wendy Bourque
    
     

    Both my boys went to whole milk at 6 months.  Their doctor fully
    supported my decision to do so.  They both took infant vitamins and
    were really good eaters.  
    
    Chris

My pediatrican also said 6 months for whole milk and when I looked shocked
said that others did think it was early but he thought it was fine and,
worse comes to worse, we could go back to formula.  It turned out that
either we introduced it too quickly (not cold turkey but not spaced out
well enough) and/or she was not ready for it because she spit up a lot.
We went back to formula and started making her cereal with milk, then 
one bottle a day for a week before being more aggresive with it.  At
9.5 months we was on whole milk completely and I just returned 3 cans
of formula.  

My biggest concern is that she is supposed to have 2 oz of water or 
juice made with tap water to get her fluoride.  She's never been a 
big drinker and it is hard to get her drink enough milk and then juice
on top of that.  

-- Nisha


                     <<< Note 947.10 by WMOIS::PINEAU_C >>>
                            -< 6 months for us too >-

    Both my boys went to whole milk at 6 months.  Their doctor fully
    supported my decision to do so.  They both took infant vitamins and
    were really good eaters.  
    
    Chris

    Thanks for the comments.  Alyssa is a good eater - 3 meals a day
    probably 4 - 6 oz of baby food per meal.  At her six month visit she
    weighed close to 20 pounds (not bad since when she was born she was 6
    pounds/13 ounces.)  At 9 months she feels alot heavier!
    She takes vitamins with fluoride (we have well water).  She loves to
    drink water and is just now starting to like juice.  In general, I'm
    not worried about her missing out on any nutrition.
    I will most likely start the milk very slowly, perhaps first by mixing
    with cereal.
    
    Nancy 

    When our daughter was 6 months, she stopped taking expressed milk, and
    wouldn't take formula.  We heard no cow's milk in the first year, but
    then we discovered that she liked plain yogurt.  It is certainly easier
    to digest than cow's milk.  Our pediatrician was happy with this.
    
    Beryl

	The reasoning behind holding off cow's milk until 12 months
	is that the protein is too difficult for younger babies to	
	digest.  It is not based upon the nutritional benefits of
	formula over milk (so baby's good eating habits aren't
	really the concern).

	I have read in nutritional newsletters that there have
	been some studies showing a link between diabetes and early
	introduction of cow's milk (prior to 1 year).

	That's all just to show the medical support for waiting.

	When Emily was 10+ months old, we started introducing
	cow's milk.  By 11 months old, she was no longer getting formula.

	I decided on 10 months because half the books I read said 10
	months, half said 12 months, but the booklet from my pedi said
	10 months.

	The booklet from my pedi was revised after that, and now says
	12 months.  I did try to start Andrew on cow's milk at 11.5 months, but 
	he had awful diarrhea from it.  The pedi believes that it was
	a relationship between the milk and the antibiotics (which
	caused diarrhea, but milder than the two combined).  He's
	been off antiobiotics a week, and we will probably try the
	cow's milk again next week.

	Karen

    I find it unusual that cows milk was introduced to babies in the
    1950's when babies were 3 - 6 months old and there wasn't alot of
    alarm back then about risks/side effects.  I'd be interested in
    learning more about the specific studies done to establish  that cow's
    milk does indeed cause problems.

<    I find it unusual that cows milk was introduced to babies in the
<    1950's when babies were 3 - 6 months old and there wasn't alot of
<    alarm back then about risks/side effects.  

In the 1950's, people still put butter on burns, too.  Now most people know
that butter makes burns worse, but there are still people who do it, it's
just not as prevalent.

I don't know how bad milk is before 12 months; I agree it's wise to see what
studies have actually been done.  Just because it used to be done, though,
without a lot of question, doesn't mean that it is the best thing to do.

     JMO,

        Carol

    
    I don't know what the specific studies say but my daughter
    could not digest cow milk based formula - she passed lumps
    of milk protein in her bowel movement and she had wicked
    gas pain, so we put her on soy based formula. We changed
    to whole milk at 12 months and she was fine.
    
    
    
    Eva

    
    Formula still has vitamins and iron which milk does not and
    milk has a very very high sodium level which is one reason
    they don't like babies to go on it too soon.
    
    But remember except for soy formula is cows milk based...
    

    Re: .16 - Regarding your comparison of my previous note to putting
    butter on burns... the point I am trying to make is that when people
    switched to cow's milk earlier, the hazards/risks weren't publicized.
    Now people speak of taxing the body with excess protein, is there more
    protein in milk than in meat???  Many nine month olds have had meat
    before they have milk.
    Babies get diaheria from whole milk, didn't they get diaheria in the
    50's.  If so, why wasn't the cause associated with the affect.     
    
    I really didn't understand the point you were trying to make with your
    note.
     

<    I really didn't understand the point you were trying to make with your
<    note.

My apologies.  I am probably just on edge because I am concerned about my
older son (discussed in another note).  I also may have a bit of a reaction
when I hear anything that reminds me of the attitude "if it was okay in the
50's, it's okay for me and my family!"  I've heard this said with belligerance,
which is probably not at all as you intended it.  I've also heard this said
in ignorance, about things that were definately unhealthy (like the butter on
a burn) and defended just because it felt like "tradition" to the person
defending it.

My doctor recommended against whole, uncultured cow's milk for my children
until they were 12 months old.  It worked fine for our first son.  Our second
son seems to easily get ear infections when he has any amount of cow's milk,
and he is 2 1/2 years old.  He is probably allergic to it. 

I don't know any medical details about cow's milk in children younger than 12
months, but I'm sure others can provide more detailed information. 

      Carol

    Carol,
    
    The WHO has found a correlation between early cow's milk ingestion and
    insulin dependant diabetes.  Further studies are needed to find out if
    this is just correlation or causation.  There is some relationship
    between certain infections and diabetes, but whether the "bugs" kill of
    the isles of langerhans (sp) or the body sets up an auto-immune
    response to those cells in repsonse to an infection is unknown.  In any 
    case, if there is a history of early-onset diabetes in a family, I 
    certainly wouldn't look to introducing cow's milk early.  
    
    Fortunately for most of us, most babies are resilient and can take a
    lot of system abuse.  Remember, in the '50's women who gained more than
    12 pounds during their pregnancies were put on diaretics, and diets,
    often resulting in the very toxemia the Dr's were trying to prevent.  
    
    I believe in going with what MY baby seems to work best with, not what
    others, have decided all children should manage with.  I also consider
    cow's milk to be "white death" so it is limited in my home.  FWIW the
    kids grow just fine without it, and Atlehi's reaction to it was to take
    the cup it was offered to her in and fling it, and this is the kid who
    will eat cheese to the point I am in awe.
    
    meg
    
    

	Nancy,

	If mom's hadn't given their kids whole milk in the 50's,
	we may not even have the studies that we have today
	that suggest milk before 12 months may lead to diabetes.

	Pregnant women used to get DES to prevent miscarriage.
	Now, girls born to those women have their own host of 
	medical problems.  Obviously, there is always continuous
	learning in the medical world, and research into today's	
	diseases often points to prior "approved" habits being
	contraindicated.

	I believe that was the point of Carol's "butter on burns"
	comment.

	Karen

    Re:  Cows milk before 12 mos. and Type I Diabetes...
    
    My youngest son was diagnosed in January '94 with Insulin Dependant
    diabetes at the age of 4.  He did not have any cows milk until he was
    over a year old.  We have no history of this type of diabetes in either
    family so, while we'll never know EXACTLY what caused Tim's diabetes,
    the assumption is some type of virus that attacked his pancreas (sp?).
    
    I wanted to let first time parents know that just because they may
    have been giving their baby cows milk (either whole or in formula) that
    doesn't necessarily mean that their child will get Type I diabetes. 
    Having been a first time parent myself (many years ago now!) I just
    know that I took EVERYTHING I read as ABSOLUTELY happening to my child!
    
    
    

   Just to add another somewhat unrelated data point into this
   discussion....
   
   There are some folks who question the whole idea of giving cow's milk
   to any youngster *other than* a cow ...
   
   Personally, I don't drink milk - I seem to have a mild sensitivity to
   it, so I stay clear.  My kids all drank a little milk when they were
   younger, but don't now.  My youngest (15 mo old) drinks whole milk
   with 1 or 2 meals a day and seems to really like it, but my wife
   didn't start that until he was over 12 months old.
   
   fwiw,
   
   - Tom

    Nancy,
    
    I started Kelci on whole milk at about 7-8 months with the doctors
    ok.  He said that once she was on meats for a while and she had no
    reaction to it, I could start.  Well, like you I was concerned. So I
    gave her 1 4oz bottle at night of milk.  She liked it better than
    formula.  Then I gradually gave her more and more milk per day over the
    course of a month, month and a half. She will be going to her 9month
    check up next week and has been on whole milk for about 3weeks now. 
    
    She has not had any reaction it.  One night she didn't want to sleep
    and we warmed the milk figuring that would relax her.  She hated it.
    
    If you can wait and see what her doctor says before you give her milk
    or call him up and ask; you might feel better about starting on milk.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Nancy

    I'm getting ready to try my daughter on cows milk again .. we tried it  
    at 9 mos but she didn't seem to react well once she reach 100% (versus
    50 formula/50 milk, etc.).  She's almost a year old now, so it's time
    to try again.
    
    My question - is anyone out there using 2% milk, or should it be whole
    milk?  I kow that for adults 2% versus 1% versus skim is just fat 
    content, does it matter which one I give a 1 year old child?

my pedi recommended whole milk until my daughter was 2.
Then we switched her to 2%.  Younger toddlers have
a higher fat requirement than older ones...

- Deb B.

    
    re: .26
    
    My older son was never able to tolerate whole milk; he
    spit up horribly on it.  So despite his pedi's recommendation,
    we put him on 2%.  We felt he was getting plenty of fat in 
    his diet from other sources (cheese, etc).
    
    Carol

     re: .26 everything I've read says to use whole milk the first 2 years,
    kids need the fat.

    I have a question related to giving milk to the little one. This
    weekend I offered yogurt to my 3.5 month old daughter. I was fooling
    around by offering it to her, and she liked it! She was happily taking
    globs of it off a spoon. I'm not sure how much she ended up eating,
    maybe 3 or 4 tablespoons. It was peach flavored, she never spit any of
    it out, her official first food. But then I began wondering why yogurt
    wasn't a popular first food. I remembered the cows milk issue. Isn't
    the problem of introducing cows milk related to the baby's ability to
    digest it? Would yogurt present the same problem? Some 6 hours after
    she had the yogurt she was fussy with gas and I was concerned it was
    related, although she gets a lot of gas, usually it doesn't make her
    cry.  Now I'm hesitant to try it again, I don't want to be giving her
    stomach cramps or worse. 
    
    Gail

	My pedi recommends starting yogurt at 6 months.  I would assume
	this is due to the protien in yogurt (most baby formulas use
	pre-digested protiens that are easier on the baby's digestion).


	My pedi's office hands out a "Parent's Survival Guide" to all
	parents, which lists first aid tips, when to call the doctor,
	and other useful information.  It also includes a food chart
	for the appropriate ages to introduce different foods.

	My personal opinion is that there is no need to rush the
	introduction of new foods, so I tend to follow the charts.

	Karen

    Re:  .29 - I seem to recall in, "What to expect the first Year" that
    it is ok to give yougurt as a first food.  Usually with any new food
    you should give a small quantity initially.  (a teaspoon?)
    It sound like she did ok with it though.
    
    My baby (9 months old) hates yougurt.  ;^(
    
    Nancy

    
    I give Alyssa (18 months) whole milk most of the time, but if I happen
    to run out, she gets whatever is in the frig from skim to 2%.  I don't
    feel that guilty about not giving her the whole milk those few times,
    because I know she is getting enough fat in her regular diet,
    especially with the amount of cheese products that she eats.
    
    When my husband picks up the milk, he tends to buy the 2% being that it
    is usually cheaper than the others and he thinks that I need the extra
    fat (I'm just about 6 months pregnant), even though I drink skim.  As
    far as I'm concerned, I don't need extra fat in my diet.
    
    

    
    The other concern might be that many brands of yogurt 
    contain a lot of sugar which offers "empty calories"
    from a nutritional standpoint.   
    
    Carol

    
    I started Alyssa on yogurt, sorda as a first food, and she loves yogurt
    now.  But, in the beginning, I was frustrated that it is nearly
    impossible to find a fat yogurt.  All the brands are either non-fat or
    reduced fat.  I gave up at trying to find a full fat yogurt and gave
    her whatever I had bought.  Even those children yogurt packs are reduced 
    fat.
    
    

    If you hit your local health food store there are several full-fat
    yogurts available.
    
    meg

FYI, 2% milk, despite the name on the label, does not fit the government
definition of low fat (3 grams of fat or fewer per serving, less than 30% of
calories from fat).  The 1% milk does.

    
    Just to clarify ... "Whole" milk is 3% fat, then there's 2%, 1%, and
    1/2% and I believe "skim" is supposed to be non-fat.
    
    The accepted recommendation is whole milk until they're 2 years old,
    and then after that reduced to 2% or less milk.  
    
    My kids only ever get 2% ... I figure a glass of that with some chicken
    nuggets MORE than covers their fat requirements!! (-;
    
    

    
    I give Lauren whole milk (I believe it is 4%, not 3% fat).  Unless
    the doctor tells me otherwise, I plan to continue this even after
    the age of 2 because she is a skinny baby and most of her dietary 
    fat comes from milk.  I cook low fat meals most of the time and I
    don't want to cut out this last remaining source of fat from her
    diet.
    
    Karen

The reason that younger kids are supposed to be on whole milk is that
the fat is needed for the brain (as well as various organs, I believe).
It doesn't matter if the kid is already chubby; the fat isn't for putting
weight on the baby.  It's necessary for their full, healthy development.

If a baby can't tolerate whole milk, and is put on 2%, then they should be
given fat elsewhere in their diet, in addition to what they get from the milk.

      Carol

    Hi...I tried to find the topic for this but I couldn't....I would like
    some feedback on taking a child from formula to whole milk....My
    daughter is 9 months and the dr. said to start givivng her 1 bottle
    formula, 1 bottle milk, 1 bottle formula, 1 bottle milk......I know my
    daughter and if I give her a bottle of straight milk she will call a
    strike and then I won't even get her to take formula....that is too
    much of a drastic change...I asked the dr. if I should mix the two
    and he said no just go 1 bottle formula, 1 bottle milk.....I am also
    concerned about how drastic that will be for her digestive system...
    he said if it bothers her you will know...but I don't want her to be in
    excruciating pain with a belly ache ....the other concern is that I am 
    lactose intollerant .....what are her chances of being the same.?????
    do I decrease the number of bottles due to the milk fat content???Is
    whole milk more filling??? Do I cut the number of bottles in half???
    
    Obviously I know nothing...... so I need some good advice......Mary
                                   

Good advice?  Well I'll tell you what we did with my son.  He was 28 lbs at 8
months, so I thought he could go off breast milk vs. switching him to formula. 
We gave him his cereal 1 meal a day with whole milk instead of breast milk in
it.  After that worked ok for a few days we would put it in cereal for
meals...try that for a few days then whole milk in cereal each meal.  To work
up to the bottle we mixed 1/4 whole milk with breast milk...went a few days
then increased the ratio til gradually he was on all whole milk.  I don't think
my sone would have taken a bottle of whole milk right away either, after the
sweetness/difference in flavor of breast milk.  You're dealing with formula and
whole milk vs breast milk like I did, but I would think you could use the same
principle.

Lisa Mc.

    Mary,
    
    I started Katie on milk by replacing one bottle at a time.  I started
    at lunch by giving her a sippy cup of milk, as she was used to a sippy
    cup for water and juice.  She wanted nothing to do with it.  I later
    discovered that this was because it was cold.  When I warmed it, she
    liked it and sucked down 8 ounces before I could stop her.  I was
    concerned with how this would affect her digestive system, but she was
    fine.  Every few days I added another bottle of milk.  It became
    evident that she preferred the milk over the formula, and it took us a
    little over a week to make the transition.
    
    Ofcourse my daughter had been eating various dairy products for months 
    (cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese...) so there
    was no reason to think she would have a reaction to the milk.  Even so
    I was concerned about introducing too much at once.  It did change the
    color and consistency of her bowel movements slightly, but that is to
    be expected with most new additions to their diet.
    
    Assuming your child is drinking other things like juice and water, they
    will probably see milk as just another drink, and not necessarily as a
    replacement for formula
    
    Good luck! 
    
    Kristen

    Atlehi's reaction to cows milk was to throw the bottle across the room. 
    (Don't know why I have children that are so forceful about their
    opinions ;-) )  I think if Frank had tried adding a bit of milk to the
    breast milk and increasing the ratio of cow- breast he might have had a
    better reaction, but no one else in the family really drinks milk.  We
    have had lactose problems and casien sensitivity issues.  We just gave
    up and are switching to alternate calcium and protein sources.
    
    meg

    I agree with cutting the whole milk with breast milk, slowly
    increasing the ratio of whole milk until the entire bottle
    contains milk.  This is the only way I could wean Christopher
    from breast milk to Soy formula (he is allergic to milk).
    
    Good luck,
    Terry

    My Dr. recommended I wait until Lisa ia a year old before switching.
    The reason had to do with the nutrition in the formula, that is not
    duplicated in milk. I do offer her milk now (7.5 months) and she likes
    it just fine, but it's not a substitute for her bottle of formula. I
    put her cheerios in it sometimes and I let her drink out of my cup. She
    loves sharing our cups at the table, she's not into the sippy cup seen!
    She is also exposed to many other dairy products, yogurt,cottage cheese
    and regular cheese. 
    
    Gail

    I started switching my kids over around 10-11 months.  The youngest is
    lactose intolerant.  What I do is buy something call Lactaid and mix it
    with her milk.  It removes the lactose from the milk so that it does
    not upset her stomach. 
    
    For both of mine the doctor recommended starting with 3/4 formula with
    1/4 milk and slowly increasing it.  By the end of 1-2 months, they were
    on complete milk.  Also, to get over the problem with them wanting it
    warmed, I started slowly taking the milk from warm to room temp to,
    finally, cold.  
    
    Irene

    I did nurse her for 8 months and towards the end I was switching breast
    milk and formula....she had no problem switching over at all.....how do 
    you find out if your child is lactose intollerant??? any easy way w/o
    her suffering???    mary

Most doctors recommend waiting until one year.

I would go with the diluted approach.  That way you can switch back if there
is a problem.

Lori

    We used the diluted approach, and tried 1/4 milk to 3/4 formula for 1
    day. Next day we went to 1/2 and 1/2. Next day we did 3/4 milk to 1/4
    formula, and on the fourth day we were at 100% milk. We made the switch
    around 10 months when the doctor said we could try switching over
    anytime from then to about a year.  And we did the switch in 1 week
    instead of over several months based on our experience with the
    hospital. The policy at all the  hospitals my kids were in was to make
    a change and let it stay at that for 24 hours. They deemed that long
    enough to have a reaction if there was going to be one, and I figured
    if it was a good enough amount of time for the medical community, it
    was good enough for me. But then, I know that my kids are the type that
    if they are going to have a reaction, they have it right away and there
    is no question, so I knew that I'd know immediately if switching was
    the wrong thing to do.
    
    I think you have to decide what the best method is with your own kids
    as you know them best, but we had no problems with a quick changeover.
    
    Regards,
    Cathy

    RE: "how do you find out if your chile is lactose intollerant??? any
    easy way w/o her suffering???"
    
    With mine, it took some suffering.  We figured it out while she was
    still breast feeding.  We noticed her having a lot of gas and stomach
    cramps.  From there, I started tracking what I ate and when she had the
    discomfort.  We finally figured out (after about 3-4 days) that anytime
    I had milk products, she had the problems.  From there, we tried a low
    iron formula with no better results.  Then we tried a soy-based formula
    and she stopped with the stomach problems.  Bingo, intolerance.  She's
    been on soy formula or lactaid treated milk ever since.
    
    Irene

    Thanks for all the replies, and I guess after reading .50 ...I nursed
    my daughter for almost 8 months and she was on forumla in between and
    has never had to go to soy, I guess I don't have to worry about Lactose
    intolerence...plus we decided to mix the milk and formula so some of
    the familiar taste would be there and I would say by hte end of this
    week she will be fully on cow's milk......Thank you again everyone....
    
                                                              Mary

    
    My daughter just went for her 6 month checkup.  16 lbs, 12 oz  - The 
    pedi said when she gets to 18 lbs to put her on whole milk, he said it
    would probably be around 8 months.  I'll probably wait til she goes
    for her 9 month checkup.  When can they start drinking cold milk ?

    
    Cold milk .... with my kids always seemed to hit the summer that they
    were close to a year old.  Even now though, at 2 1/2, Jonathan doesn't
    like REAL cold milk, especially first thing in the morning.  We worked
    up to it - 'warmed' it to room temp, and then eventually straight from
    the carton.  In the summer, if you warm it first though, you don't have
    long before it starts to sour.
    
    And honestly - they probably REALLY got it the first time because mom
    or dad simply Forgot to warm it up - or they started drinking ours,
    cold.
    

    
    re: 8 months old to go on whole milk!?
    
    Are you sure?? Most books I've read and my doctor all say 12 months.
    Babies need the extra nutriets they get from formula/breast milk
    until they are on a very regular solids diet.  My daughter ate
    very little solid food until she was almost 1 year old!  Please be
    sure that your little one is eating plenty of solid food before
    you make the switch.
    
    Another tip... wean to whole milk slowly.  I weaned Lauren in a
    2 week period and she still had problems with constipation.
    
    Cold milk... I can't remember but I expect that summer would be
    a great time to start serving cooler liquids.  
    
    Karen

    
    Yup, 8 months.  He actually said when she is 18 lbs, which should be 
    about 8 months.  He said if I wasn't comfortable with it, I could
    wait.  I just worry if she'll get enough iron if I swap her to whole
    milk.  She currently eats about 4 tablespoons of cereal with half jar
    of fruit for breakfast, and half jar of each veggies and fruit for 
    dinner.  I'm a little hesitant to wean her from formula so early.
    I would like to hear other opinions on this matter.  So If you have
    one, please share it.  Thanks.
    

    My kids started 'real' milk at just under a year, mostly because I ran
    out of formula... actually, both had been eating, and tolerating w/o any
    problems, cheese and yogurt products for quite some time, I just waited
    till they were closer to the year that most 'experts' talk about.  I
    think 8 months is a bit too soon, but check with our dr. to be sure.
    
    Sandy

    I thought 8 mths kind of soon too, and another mother here did too.
    The earliest I've heard a "pedi suggested" switch was 9 mths, but
    most seem to be about a year.
    
    						cj

    With my oldest, who has always been around the 90th percentile for
    height and weight, we were told to go for it at 7-8 months.  With the
    youngest who has lactose problems and has always been 90% on height and
    20-30% on weight, they had us wait for a year.  
    
    As for cold, I warmed whatever they got in a bottle but the cup was
    always cold.  I had a feeling of if they could drink juice cold, why
    not milk.  That way, when they weaned from a bottle, they were used to
    just cold stuff.  So far, I've had no problem with it.
    
    Irene

    
    We never gave milk, in a bottle, nor formula in a cup.All 3 were off
    the bottle/formula by 13 mos (I think it was 11 mos for Chris, 12 1/2
    for Jason, 13+ for Jonathan). 
    
    If I remember right, when Jason was BORN, at the time there was a lot
    of talk about switching to milk at 6 mos!!  By the time he was 6 mos,
    they were saying 9-12 mos.  I know it's changed over the years - I always
    stuck with a year, and then dumped the formula and bottles all at once. 
    Put some formula in a cup, and pick it up to sneak a swig - just once -
    will be enough to convince you never to confuse the two (-:
    
    Personally, I'd wait - but just because that's what I was originally
    told to do, and then, what I was 'used to'.   

    
    My pedi said 10 months for my 2 kids and we haven't had any problems.
    They were both in the 50% for their weight at that age.I have heard
    that 12 months is more common and have never heard of anything earlier
    than 10 months.
    
    I usually warm up the milk or at least take the chill off it, they seem
    to like it better that way. My son was off the bottle at 11 months but
    I still give my daughter one in the morning (15 months next week). 
    
    I know it's time to get rid of it but she's so nice and quite while she
    drinks it. It gives me a chance to finish getting ready in the morning.
    Now that I'm thinking about it I realize I should just do it. Maybe
    we'll try it this weekend. Wish me luck! :)
    
                       Barbara
    

    My daughters were on cows milk at 11 months.  They were around 95%
    and 100% for their weight at that age. If you take into account that
    they were born early they were really around 9 1/2 to 10 months old
    when they switched.   I have also heard that 12 months is a more common 
    time to make the move -- but in our case we just decided to go for it.
    They were both nursing part-time and having formula part-time. I found
    that the cost of the formula was quite high for two little ones.  I did
    do the change gradually.  First 1/4 milk to 3/4 formula then 1/2
    and 1/2 then 3/4 to 1/4 and finally all milk.   
    
    I never warmed up the milk -- they seemed to get used to it right away.  
    At 14 months they still have a bottle each in the morning -- It's hard 
    to give up the 15 minutes of quiet time -- we'll make the move
    eventually!
    
    
    

As far as warm vs. cold goes, I don't *think* that's
necessarily an age-related thing.  I thought I read in
the Penelope Leach "Your Baby and Child - Birth to Age 5"
that you should just watch the "temperature temperament"
of your child.  Noelle seemed to be so hungry that she
could have cared less whether her bottle was warmed or
fresh from the fridge.  *I* felt better about giving her
a warm bottle so I generally warmed it, but I think the
sooner she had that bottle in her mouth, the happier
she was...

By about 8 months or so, Noelle drank her formula bottles
cold, and we never warmed her milk. 

Just another data point...

- Deb B.

    
    MAybe it is a personal preference, I warmed the
    formula and milk to room temp in the winter. I tend 
    to prefer warm liquids in the winter, especially if I 
    had a cold or something (cold liquids cause pain in a 
    unhappy sinus for me). But I think kids are less 
    selective...
    
    
    Eva  

	This is one of those issues that there are a lot of different
	opinions on and you just have to do what you think is right for your
	child.  With both our children who were in the 90% most of the first
	year but down to about 80% for height and weight by 12months.  We
	started around 9 months (I think) not warming the formula in the
	bottle as long and then by about 10months it was straight from the
	frig. neither one seemed to mind.  But if it had caused pain in
	the stomach as I've read can happen, then they probably would have
	been fussy and we would have gone back to warming it. So you can
	try it.

	At about 10months we also starting give them the sippy cup with
	the bottle just to play around with (water in it).  Around 11months
	we started with 3/4 formula 1/4 milk in the bottle and gradually
	each week added more milk and less formula until at 12months they
	were on all milk in the bottle and also having the sippy cup with	
	milk in it more and more.  Then a week later at about 12months
	and 1 week we took all the bottles away and used only a sippy cup.

	They both adjusted fine and within a few days were eating better
	and drinking very well out of the sippy cup.

	Just our experience, but I say go with what you feel is right and
	be flexible, if something doesn't work, go back to the old way and
	try again in a few weeks.

	Good luck,
	Karen T.

    My 7 year old was switched to whole milk at 11 months, and he was high
    on the weight/height scale always (never below 95% of each, and always
    on the heavy side for the height, i.e., 95% of height, 98% of weight). 
    Joe was always a good drinker, and a summer baby, too, so he didn't
    care what temperature his bottle/cup was, as long as it was there!
    
    My Jake, now 6 months, won't touch anything that isn't HOT!.  Jake
    doesn't even like what most people consider properly warm for babies,
    he wants it HOT.  This kid is definitely going to be a coffee/tea
    drinker when he grows up (Mom and Dad are strictly cold drink
    types...).  He doesn't even like juice or water unless it has been
    warmed up.  (Hot baby applejuice...ugh!)  Now that the weather is
    warming up here in AZ (80's-90's this week), I've been forcing him to
    eat his applesauce cold, and he isn't really happy about it. 
    Juice/water will be starting up at the end of the week when we hit the
    90's, and I'll serve that room temperature first, and work my way down
    to fresh-from-the-fridge.
    
    M.
    

Both of my kids went to whole milk at a year, as per doctor's recommendation. 
We never heated formula for either of them, they had it straight from the
refrigerator; when they switched to milk there really wasn't any issue
about cold vs warm, since we didn't give them warm liquids in the first place.

						Brian

    I don't know why it should matter where your child is on the percentile
    scale in regards to switching to milk. The reason to stay with formula
    is the assurance that the child is getting the nutrients supplied by it.
    When you switch to milk you loose the iron and vitamin source. It's
    inconsequential that your child happens to be larger or smaller than
    average. What is important to note is he/she getting those nutrients
    from another source if you're removing the formula (or breast milk)
    source? The logic in waiting until they are at least a year, is that at
    that point they should be eating a wide variety of foods, and getting
    the nutrients they need from those foods. 
    
    Gail 

    I THINK that the train of thought goes more like .... they need the
    formula to ensure they "grow" to a particular weight.  It's unlikely
    that a 20-ish pound baby got there on formula alone, and probably IS
    eating a fairly varied diet.
    
    All my Drs prescribed vitamins till ~2 - don't yours?  (we didn't USE
    them, but that's another story... (-;)

    Hi,
    
     I'm in the same boat..kind of.  My son just had his 9 month check-up.  
    At his 6 month the Dr. said to start on milk based products and try
    some milk with the formula.  Well he didn't like yogart and when I
    tried milk 1/4 milk to 3/4 formula he got very cranky at night.  So 
    I stopped.  So at this last check-up the doctor said try again. Start
    by adding milk to his cereal and progress onwards.  He also gave me
    a prescription for vitamins for when he's off formula.  My Dr. said
    he likes kids off of formula by 12 months but if I was uncomfortable
    with milk keep him on formula..he always says to do what I think is
    best...being a first time mom, I'm not always sure whats best......
    
    renee

    This is a serious question, because I'm just a little confused.
    
    Why would a doctor recommend transition from formula to milk and then
    turn around and prescribe a vitamin supplement to replace the nutrients
    that the child was no longer getting? 
    
    Am I having a 'logic attack' or is there something about formula that
    I've missed?
    
      Annie

    Annie,
    
      I'm not sure that I can answer you question.  Which makes me believe
    that I'm one of those people who believe's doctors and doesn't ask to
    many questions.  A friend told me about changing her 9 month old from
    formula to milk and using vitamins, so when the docotor told me when
    Jeff went to milk to also give him a daily (prescribed) vitamin I
    didn't think to much of it.  I believe that milk does not carry the
    same amount of nutrition (ie. iron) as the formula.  Also at this point
    we are trying to get Jeff to eat more table food then baby...with out
    much success..*8)  But if anyone else knows more information please
    post-it...
    
    
    Renee

    RE: "he became more cranky at night"
    
    You might consider trying Lactose reduced milk to see if that makes a
    difference.  My youngest gets cranky (from gas and pressure) if she
    has too many milk products during the day.
    
    Irene

    Annie:
    
    Dr. may have prescribed milk + vitamins because of the taste issue -
    some babies just don't accept new tastes well after they reach that
    stubborn age of 1.  There is also a theory out there that is the
    opposite of what most of us believe - that a child will "learn" to
    digest the whole milk better if it is started sooner, particularly if
    that child has *not* had any digestive issues to speak of in infancy.
    
    Personally, I shall stick with the plan I used with my older boy, a
    four week switch beginning at 11 mos.+; it worked well for Joe and it
    wasn't too much hassle for me.  My doc. may actually delay that with
    Jake, though, because he *did* have digestive troubles in early
    infancy, and is just now beginning to take in quantities/varieties of
    solids and switched to Good Start from Nutramigen a short 4 weeks ago.  
    
    It seems odd to have an almost-7-month old who is still on the
    digestion test plan (3-4 days on this food, then add that food...)
    
    M.
    

    I've put in many notes about my son's ear infections that I believed
    were associated to a sensitivity to evening bottles of formulas and
    later to trying to switch him to milk.  His ear tubes are working
    really well, so that's no longer a problem, however...
    
    About 2 months ago Aaron got a killer cold and would wake us up through
    the night coughing.  He's still coughing even though the cold is gone. 
    I just realized (thinking about it late last night) that it could be
    associated to us trying to switch him over to milk.   We started adding
    milk to his formula about 1 1/2 months ago (right now it's half and
    half, I'm reluctant to give up the vitamins in formula).  He seems to
    be stuffier through the day than usual.  His coughing is worst at night
    or as he's waking up from a nap in the afternoon.
    
    Has anyone else had problems with their child creating too much mucus
    because of milk?  I've made a call to the nurse at our pediatricians
    office, but it seems like the minute you mention a sensitivity they
    assume you beleive the child is truly allergic to it, which I don't
    beleive is the case.  I think he's just a little more sensitive to milk
    than many other children.  
    
    I suppose I'll have to seriously think about weaning him to something
    like rice milk, but they don't have fat which a little guy like Aaron
    needs to grow (he's tall and lean right now), as well as for his brain
    development.  Or I could let him live with the coughing in his sleep or
    resort to giving him something like dimatapp every night (which is the
    last thing that I want to do).  
    
    Any thoughts from the veteran mom's and dad's out there???
    
    Sandy

    Sandy,
    
    My kids only get milk if they ask for it.  My oldest went through many
    months of ear infactions and sinus stuff bwefore we finally took her
    completely off dairy products for a couple of weeks.  The improvement
    was dramatic in her case.  After that, we were very careful about milk
    and milk products, no more than one serving/day, and preferably cheese
    or yogurt, instead of milk in its raw state.  
    
    As fart as extra fat, there are ways to sneak it in if your child eats
    other stuff.  Non-dairy margarine, oils, peanut or almond butter on
    bread(with something to make it slide like fruit preserves. )
    
    Good luck, Atlehi and Carrie don't seem to be sensitive to casein (sp)
    but after what we went through with Lolita, I am just not going to push
    dairy on my kids.  Carrie wound up staying with friends and having milk
    with her meals everyday, and she had gas and cramps the whole time.  
    (We use lactose free milk at home)
    
    meg

    
    	Sandy,
    
    	I know I've mentioned this before, especially in regards
    	to Aaron's ears.  My son Andrew had trouble with milk, not
    	necessarily an allergy, but a sensitivity to milk protien.
    	
    	First symptom was loose stools, second symptom was 
    	seven months of infected ears, third symptom was gastric
    	distress (read diarrhea) when switching from milk-based formula
    	to milk.  Also, his nose was CONSTANTLY running.
    
    	I went milk-free with Andrew for one year, and most symptoms
    	cleared up (2 ear infections all winter!).  He seems to be
    	outgrowing the sensitivity.  I let him have milk on his
    	morning cereal, then don't offer it the rest of the day.
    
    	It likely could be that Aaron has always been sensitive, hence
    	the ear infections.  The tubes may be helping to keep the
    	extra mucus from leading to infections, but you still notice
    	the sinus stuff.
    
    

    What did you give Andrew instead of milk.  Aaron simply doesn't like
    juices so a calcium fortified orange juice won't work.  Right now he
    won't even eat his brocolli anymore.  He's only 18 months so he really
    needs the calcium and fat in milk.  Right now all he'll drink is
    milk/formula and water (and a little bit of Hi-C every few days).
    He does like cheese, butter, ice cream and occasionally yogurt, but
    those are dairy products....
    
    sandy

    Sandy,
    
    My kids love Tum's in the fruit flavors, so they get one or two of
    those a day to ensure enough calcium, although they both will eat
    veghgies if they are raw, or steamed, with salad dressing on them.  A
    French or Catalina works well if you are trying to get the milk out.  
    
    Either a kosher or health food store should be able to provide you with
    non-dairy margarine for the fats.  Read the labels carefully.  Nuts and
    nut butters carry some calcium and also fats and calories.  Some of the
    soy and rice milk procucts are tasty and calcium/vitamin d fortified.
    Contrary to popular believe soy milk and tofu is NOT low in fat.  Tofu
    and mayonaise can also make an acceptable ranch salad dressing base.  
    All I can recommend is to fiddle around and see what works for you and
    yours.  Most children growing up in the world get no milk after they
    are weaned from the breast, and most who grow up this way and have
    adequate food supplies have none of the problems you might associate
    with no milk.  Japan is a prime example.
    
    meg
    

    
    	Sandy,
    	
    	Andrew seems to tolerate yogurt and cheese fairly well.  His
    	doctor didn't find this abnormal.  
    	
    	Andrew gets 1/2 a calcium-fortified vitamin every day, and 
    	gets calcium fortified OJ now and then.
    
    	OJ is usually a bit harsh on the tummy, so you may want to
    	water it down - I used to buy the frozen and add a bit more
    	water than recommended.  Also, I've been known to mix a bit
    	of OJ with his Juicy Juice.
    
    	You may find that yogurt and cheese don't bother Aaron, which
    	will provide added calcium and fat (n.b. I wouldn't worry too
    	much about him getting enough fat - I wouldn't restrict it 
    	per se, but usually, the kids'll find it - hot dogs, peanut butter,
    	bologna, french fries ;-) )
    
    	Karen
    

    I wish Aaron would take OJ (calcium fortified or not).  He won't take
    any type of juice, I've gone from adding just a little to a cup of
    water and worked my way up to all juice. He just makes a face and won't
    take anymore.  He will take some Hi-C (an ounce or so at a time).  I'm
    going to try adding a little OJ to that...
    
    I think Aaron is ok with cheeses and yogurt.  When he was ear infection
    free for a month in Feb. we had stopped giving him evening bottles but
    were still giving him yogurt and cheeses.  The rice milk isn't too bad,
    but it's so sweet (we bought rice dream).  He doesn't want it alone,
    but will take it mixed in with milk/formula.  Of course that doesn't
    help with the sensitivity if he's still taking milk, but maybe we can
    get him off the milk slowly...
    
    Right now we're just trying to get him over the bug that he came down
    with last week.  He was running a temp when I picked him up around
    4:45, when I got home and checked it around 5:45 it the thermoscan
    showed it at 104.4!  He had already had some tylenol at daycare, I
    called the dr. then gave him some motrin and we took a bath together
    which helped bring it back down to around 102.5.  He was ready to play
    in the tub at that point, so he must have been feeling better.  We
    spent the weekend dealing with the temp, and Monday he started with
    diarrhea.  That's almost gone now, along with the diaper rash that he
    got from it.
    
    And to top it all, I changed his room around Friday (not knowing he
    would be sick), and managed to put the night light in a place that
    really bothered him.  He kept waking up over the weekend in the night
    and we assumed it was because he was sick.  Finally on Sunday I got him
    to point to what was bothering him.  Since then we've been
    experimenting with different things, and I think we finally have the
    perfect place for it since he's slept the last couple of nights.
    
    If it's not one thing...
    
    sandy