Conference moira::parenting

    
    My daughter is only three but we had a Nanny for a month once that she
    didn't like.  It wasn't obvious then because she didn't say I don't
    like so-an-so.  But she suddenly became very "hard to manage", had
    trouble sleeping, had trouble with even her usually good stuff etc etc.
    After the nanny left she told us she didn't like her.   
    
    This girl was not a bad person but they just didn't hit it off.  
    She was not what my daughter was used to in terms of disipline and
    understanding.  

My daughter was in kindergarten last year and also in the extended day program.
We got a call on the third day of school last year that Molly was not behaving
well.  She had good periods during the year and bad periods.  She had been in
an all-day day care program before kindergarten so we knew she could handle
the full day.

Kindergarten is a very big change for children.  For the first time in their
little lives they are in a setting that they have no control over, in a
classroom where the teacher can not pay them a lot of attention.  It is a
very long day for them and we fould that Molly was often overtired.  The
extended day program tries to give the kindergarten kids time to rest after
lunch but they are so wound up that sleep is out of the question.

I suggest strongly that you sit down with her teacher and the extended
day folks and work out a plan for your child so that the teacher and the
extended day folks have some communication at change over time.  If your
child had a bad morning, then the extended day folks could try to arrange
some quiet activities.  Perhaps you can get the teacher to give you a
written note each week on your child's progress. 

We made it through kindergarten with some very negative "report cards" on Molly.
Her kindergarten teacher did her best to support Molly with behavior
modification techniques and time outs.

This year, first grade, so far, has been much easier.  She is more able to
handle herself and more mature.  She has a year of school behind her and has
found her place in the school way of doing things.

Don't let the kindergarten year go by without talking the teacher on a regular
basis.  If you geta newsletter at the end of the week, discuss the activities
mentioned.  Don't be surprised if your child doesn't want to talk about
school activities - it is a first step to being independent.  But make sure
that you re-enforce what behaviors are acceptable and not acceptable.

Good Luck!

	Ditto to Maxine's comments. Get in touch with the teacher and arrange to
sit down with him/her for an hour or so. You should ask them about discipline 
methods and what you can do to help at home in this time of transition. If you
find something you disagree with then let the teacher know. You should also 
talk to parents of fellow students and parents of students who have had this 
teacher in the past but remember that everybody's views are different. 
	You stated that your child is in extended day both before and after 
Kindergarten. That is a very long day and I suspect much longer and more
structured than the child has been used to (daycare, even professional
preschools, are usually unstructured and thus allow kids to keep their own
pace and catch their breath more often).  The reason educators use "half
day" Kindergarten so extensively is that younger kids need more rest and
relaxation and it's a transition year into school. The most important things
your child will learn this year are social and developmental not academic. 
	If, after you've had some time to absorb your meeting with the teacher,
you are still uncomfortable with the teacher then go and talk to the Principal. 

Mike

    My daughter is only three, but most transitions are difficult for her
    and us.  As an introverted, intense, bright, creative child, she needs us
    to help her structure herself and cope with the world.  Yours too?
    
    I have found great solace in the book recommended in 17.28,
    "Raising Your Spirited Child."
    
    For example, to learn how your child is really feeling so you
    can help, you might say when you pick her up "I'd like to hear about
    your day.  Can you tell me about it later?"  Bathtime is our
    debriefing time.
                                                                      

>    Moderators, please move this note if a topic already exists. I read
>    through a few topics that I thought might be helpful, but they were
>    not.

Nancy, I didn't move this, but I did change the title somewhat, so that it 
would be apparent from the title what "transition" you were talking about.

Clay, the mod.

>    . . .her day is quite long (kindergarten is in the afternoon).    
    
>    Jamie looks and frequently complains that she's tired

Does she flip to morning kindergarten half way through the year?  If it IS 
tiredness that's the problem, perhaps she would benefit from morning 
kindergarten.  Of course, that may mean the she reverts to afternoon 
kindergarten mid-year, but she may be adjusted by then.  Also, you might try 
taking a vacation day on which you let her sleep in longer (how early does she 
have to wake up?  Do you have to wake her up, or does she wake up by herself?) 
and go at a more leisurely pace.  Of course it you do find out that helps, it 
may not be easy to make an adjustment.  But at least you'd have a better fix 
on what the problem is.  You might also check out her diet to make sure that 
the fatigue isn't due to sugar shock rebound blood sugar levels, etc.

Clay, the noter

This weekend my girlfriend and I started talking about her 1st grader and
how she was adjusting to school.  I was shocked at what she told me.

Her daughter (6) and son(5) have been attending the same daycare center for
the past 4 years and they LOVE it.  They like it so much that instead of sending
their son to (free) public kindergarden at the school they chose to keep him
at the kindergarden program at the daycare ($$$). 

Their daughter started first grade this year - and since I have known her 
since birth I can say she is a very intelligent, well adjusted young lady
who has very little discipline problems.  Because both mom & dad  work
Samantha is dropped off at an elementary school for a before/after school 
program.  At Sam's recent open house - the teachers had only high praise
for Sam - listen's well, follows direction, is definitely a leader.  PROBLEM:
Sam comes home in the afternoon grumpy, uncooperative, fresh mouth, swearing,
(I'm not naive to believe this doesn't happen but the intensity is getting 
worse) - mom & dad go back to talk to her teachers last week - they tell her 
they don't know what they are talking about - because the little girl mom &
dad are decribing isn't Sam?????  Well on Thursday of last week they found out!
At the before/after school program - mom & dad were told there would be
structured activities and FULL Suppervision for the different age groups in
well DEFINED areas.  And that the children would be bused dirrectly to the 
elementary school (less than 5 min. away) at the appropriate time.
They found out differently!!

1.  Thurs. 3:00pm mom goes to Elementary school to pick Sam. - She is not 
	there - she is already on her way to the after school program. 
	(mom is early to pick up because Sam's grampa is in the hospital)
	so she drives to the after school program - arrival: 3:10pm approx.!

2.  Sam's bus arrives: 4:20PM !!!!!! Where the H&*% have they been for over an
	hour???????? Mom is told the bus broke down - okay she believes them.

3.  mom & Sam go home - Sam is behaving terrible - mom thinks - she's probably 
 	tired....

4.  Fri morning Sam dropped off at before school - Mom starts chatting with 
	another mom (wants to get info) says gee too bad the bus broke
	down yesterday - other mom says WHAT??? the bus didn't breakdown - that
	is the normal time....... so mom goes in to talk with someone in charge
	is told she's not there - MOM is getting very angry!

5.  Fri. pm Mom goes early to after school program to make sure she sees 
	person in charge  - arrives at program 3:30 (allows extra time) -
	Guess what - BUS ISN"T THERE yet (remember school is 5 min away_)
	Mom waits - steaming - in the car until 4:15pm!!!! bus arrives - 
	MOm watches child go into school - follows and asks to talk to
	person in charge - NO ONE AGAIN!!! - So she goes in search of her 
	daughter -  she goes directly to the first grade area - NO SAM is told
	oh she's probably in another room - Mom goes to that room - NO SAM -
	is told oh - she maybe in another room - NO SAM - now shes MAD!
	Searches for 15 MINUTES! finally finds her daughter OUTSIDE sitting
	under a tree - very upset! Mom takes Sam home - finds out there 
	is no actual structure to the program - High School students watch
	the kids - Mom finds out Sam is on the bus for 45min - 1hour every
	morning and afternoon - NORMALLY!  and makes pick ups and stops for 
	both JR. High and High School????? She is told "What did you expect 
	for 5$ a day"? As of yesterday AM the Daycare center she loves has made 
	new arrangements for their previous student to have a before/after
	school program - over the weekend after a few phone calls they 
	found out EVERY child from their previous class was having the same 
	problem.  

At about this point in the conversation my girlfriend was crying - she is so 
upset that her daughter was being treated in this manner! and that if something
happened to her......she would never forgive herself.....also Sam said 
NOTHING - if you really think about it how would they know something was wrong -
she's only 6 - and has been taught to listen to adults in charge - especially
teachers.

Sorry this is so long - I'm sure not every program is like this but if your
childs behavior changes - there is usually a reason!

Donna

    I can understand Donna's note.  Kids don't always know that what is
    happening to them is not what is supposed to happen.  They need to know
    that any change from what is expected (you tell them what they should 
    expect) should be told to the parents - not necessarily the teachers,
    etc.  After my kids went to a day care center, we found out some things
    that didn't make me freak, but still weren't things I had known about
    and this was from a now former instructor.  I took it with a grain of
    salt, but can understand why my son said he was glad he didn't have to
    go there anymore.
    
    -sandy
     

	Most public school departments have no control over the after school
programs that are utilizing their facilities. However, they do have control
over the use of the facilities. I would tell your friend to go to the
Superintendent of schools with a detailed letter in hand with copies for
the school committee. I have a real problem with first graders on the same bus
with high school kids for an hour. The first change I would make is ensuring
that the afterschool program is the first stop after the elementary pickup.
If the afterschool program is not housed in or affiliated with the public school
then you have very little recourse other than to pull your child.

    This is the first chance I've had to reply since Friday.
    
    First, thank you everyone for your very helpful replies. I shared them
    with my husband and we both feel much better educated because of them.
    
    Maxine--your reply was right on the mark. The only difference between
    your daughter's situation and ours, though, is the teacher. Not only is
    Jamie faced with the transition, but *we* have to deal with this
    seemingly inflexible, rigid, and sometimes b*tchy teacher with whom I
    am having difficulty dealing with already. For example, my daughter was
    absent on the Friday before a Monday field trip. On that Friday, the
    teacher sent home new instructions for the trip, which we didn't get
    because Jamie was absent when they were given out. Consequently, I was
    late getting her to the bus and I didn't bring a "disposable" lunch.
    This woman actually reprimanded me, in front of six other mothers no
    less. This same teacher, when she calls with complaints, also makes it
    clear that it is the parents' responsibility to "fix" the problem
    behavior. Although it is primarily my responsibility, I think it takes
    teamwork between the parents and teacher to change something. I was
    also angry last Friday because Jamie had some behavior problem during
    music and the primary teacher told the music teacher to call me
    herself--her exact words to me when I asked her why I didn't hear about
    this situation from her were, "I'm washing my hands of it."
    
    I agree with everyone who said work with the teacher. I'm still trying,
    but I'm not sure if that's even possible (some of the other parents
    have expressed similar concerns to me too). Still, in a last-ditch
    effort, we've brought the school guidance counselor in on the situation
    to evaluate our daughter and make some recommendations. My husband and I
    figured that if this doesn't work, we'll have to transfer Jamie to
    another class/program, but we should give it another shot.
    
    Clay-our town does switch kindergarten sessions in January, but the
    session that Jamie attends is determined by bus routes/schedules. Also,
    there is only one morning session now, and guess who teaches that
    one?????
    
    About the buses, I'm not thrilled about the bus ride that Jamie has to
    take, but from what I can see so far, the bus people and the extended
    day people are honest and deliver what they promise.
    
    Despite my negative comments about the teacher, I really would like to
    see things work out for Jamie where she is now. We're certainly going
    to try and if it doesn't work, we'll try something else.
    
    Thanks again everyone for your help.
    
    Nancy-
    

Nancy,
	Considering the quotes from the teacher I would most definitely be
in the Principal's office with complaints about this teacher. One of the
great myths of education is that Principals know their staff. If parents don't
bring forward their issues then the Principal can't work with the teacher to
change them. In my experience the guidance counselor is likely to work toward
changing the child's behavior and is not equipped nor empowered to do much 
about the teacher's. FWIW I would write a letter outlining the issues to 
the Principal and take that letter to a meeting with the Principal.

Mike  

    Each Friday the Boston Globe does a child care/issues column in the
    Living section. Last Friday's discussion, appropriately enough, was
    about children not getting along with their teacher. The article
    suggests first trying to work with the teacher and there is resistance,
    to work with the teacher and the principal.
    
    best of luck,
    

Hi, I'm hoping some more seasoned parents of kindergarteners have some advice to
offer.  Our son started k-garten last week and we are having one heck of a time
with him in the morning.  The k-garten he goes to is full day (9-3).  He takes
the bus from his previous preschool where he is now part of the before/after
school program and takes the bus back there in the afternoon.  (He and about
22 other kid that go to the center).  He says he likes his teacher a LOT and I
believe he does.  He talks pretty enthusiastically about his classmates and what
they did.  His class size is only 15 which we are pleased with.  What he doesn't
seem to like is the bus ride (the bus driver "yells"), the cafeteria (it's too
noisy and his k-garten teacher evidently doesn't always have lunch duty) and
what is called "specials" (art, music, gym), where he and 2 other classmates
(the same ones everytime) leave their regular class and meet up with 3 kids from
each of the other 7 k-garten classes and form a gym, music or art class.  He
has one of these "specials" each day and it lasts 40 minutes.  He says he likes
what he does in each of the specials and even has met up with kids from his
old preschool, but doesn't again like the fact that it's not his regular
k-garten teacher.  

I realize k-garten is a big transition and I have to keep in mind that he's 
younger than some (most?).  He turned 5 this summer.  I also realize he is the
type of kid that likes to know well in ADVANCE what is going to happen.  His
teacher has sent home a daily timetable sheet to show exactly what happens at
each part of the day.  We have gone thru this with him so he too is better
aware.  We have talked about the "negatives" with him (i.e., explaining that
the bus driver perhaps "yells" because she has a lot of kids she is responsible
for and needs to ensure they are sitting down, that the cafe is generally going
to be a noisy place - there are 7 k-garten classes all eating together and 
likely still confusion).  We also try to focus more on the things he says he
does like (i.e., the computers, recess games, show & tell) in the hopes of
reinforcing to him that there is actually quite a few things he does in fact
like about k-garten.  I also sent a note into his teacher and she responded
that he has been interacting greatly, no issues with the exception that he
is apprehensive about leaving the class for specials and she trys to prepare
him in advance.

I know when all is said and done "this too shall pass" and he'll get into a 
groove and likely be ok.  But the mornings at home have been awful.  He wakes
up crying and crys the entire morning, won't eat breakfast and generally gets
all worked up. Suprisingly for the most part he is ok when we drop him off at
the center to catch the bus with the others and I've even called and they've
said he happily boarded the bus.  I think some of it may be that he's noticed
he's generated a great deal of sympathy (more than normal lets say) and some
attention from this and to some extent maybe he's playing that.  But the tears
are also VERY real and he's visibly worked up over this.  

I will be a classroom volunteer starting late September but also want to wait
until he's better settled.  Anyone have any suggestions or do we just have to
wait it out.  FWIW, we've actually been trying a firmer approach (i.e.,, We
are sorry you don't like k-garten, we think some day you really will but the
fact of the matter is you have to go).  That hasn't been overly successful
either.

    
    
    My eldest just started K-garten too.  He goes from 8:25 (arrives about
    8:15) and his scholl ends at 3:15!  It's a really long day after hald
    days at pre-school (which was in the same school).  The only other
    difference between your son and mine seems to be the bus.  I drive my
    son and a few neighborhood kids to the school (1/2 mile).  In the
    afternoon, Andrew walks back to daycare with the same neighborhood kids
    of which there are 2 6 graders that are very responsible.  Also, as
    your son, he's making friends, enjoys the new classroom, havbing lunch
    at school, the idea of being grown up enough to walk home from school,
    etc.
    
    Bottom line is that Andrew is also horrible in the AM and between
    dinner and bedtime. He cries at the drop of the hat, seems more angry
    at situations that wouldn't have bothered him too much before.  I have
    summed it up to the change, less sleep, longer days, walking, but
    basically the change.  Andrew also likes things that stay the same, so
    it was a big change for him.  I am being more tolerant of his whining,
    crying, and vocal anger (within reason) and I figure it'll take at
    least a month or 2 befoer eveything is old hat and his mind and body
    get used to the changes.
    
    I think you've done as much as you can; talked positively about school
    and reminded hime of all the things he says he likes, and you've
    explained that the bus driver may have to yell, and maybe he doesn't
    have to, but that some people do yell, for good resons or not.  I bet
    between the changes in school for him, mostly positive, I bet it's the
    bus ride that he's not used to yet.  Those buses must seem huge to
    him.  Are there seatbeats?  He may be nervous about that and busess do
    make a lot of noices on their own and bounce around a lot, and getting
    in and out of them on those steps is a scary idea to me (a short-legged
    adult) let alone a 5 year old, and you're not there to help.
    
    A coupleof suggestions, maybe you can ask the pre-school teacher who
    puts him on and off the bus to keep an extra eye out for hime as you
    may suspect that he nervous about the bus ride.  Also, talk to him more
    about the bus ride (and driver) to see if you get get any more
    specifics from him.  Also, you could take a bus ride somewhere on the
    week-end around town or whatever with him to see if he opens up more
    about it or if he's nervous then.  Just a thought.  I figure it'll be a
    long couple of months adjustments in my house, so I wish you and your
    son good luck as well!
    
    Beth
    

    Mine too, and KATINA'S going to the same school (day care center), in the
    same room that she was in over the summer with many of the same kids,
    same hours as before, no transitions to other day care and no bus to
    worry about (I drive her). 
    
    I've decided she's just exhausted and plan to wait it out.  Plus,
    I'm working hard to get her to bed earlier.
    
    It's a whole different deal, this Kindergarten thing!  Very structured.
    She's thrilled to be doing worksheets!  I wonder how long that will
    last!  :-) 
    
    Tara