Conference moira::naturism

    anyways...
    
    I always knew I should have gone to school somewhere else.
    U.Cal in San Diego is RIGHT across the street from Black's Beach!!!!
    
    Saturday (yesterday) was gorgeous and the beach was pretty decent.
    The water was cold but then I'm used to it.  I figured about...150
    people showed up at the beach yesterday.  It rained most of the rest
    of the time I was there.
    
    It's pretty neat to watch the hanggliders launch from the gliderport
    at the top of the cliffs.
    
    For those who want directions, head for the North Torrey Pines
    Boulevard near the university.  Take the turn by the Salk Institute and
    drive in and park near the gliderport.  Stay left and look for the
    steps leading down.  I recommend wearing sneakers because the bottom
    half is either washed out or not completed.  There is another way down
    further down the beach but I haven't figured it out yet.
    
    B.

    RE: "There is another way down further down the beach but I haven't
    figured it out yet."
    
    The other way down is at the far end (north end) of the parking lot and
    it makes the steps at the glider port look like a stroll in the park.
    One needs to be half mountian goat to navigate this route.
    
    -dean

I heard that there is a real road somewhere to the south of the gliderport.
The "path" to the north is not recommended at all because so many people
got hurt that way.

I think I met the guy who is building the stairs to the beach.  He saw
some people going down the cliffs across from the steps and he was yelling
at them to get off the cliffs and use the stairs.

B.

Another way down...

One of our read-only friends just told me that if you go north on 
North Torrey Pines Road, the road will go down to arouond the beach level
to another section of the Torrey Pines State Beach.

Park in the lot somewhere there and walk south on the beach until
you get to the CO section...should be a couple of miles or so...

B.

    Does anyone know of a campground with easy access to Black's Beach?  I
    am looking to do a quick getaway canary vacation.  (CHEEP!)  I have my
    transportation taken care of, and was looking for (VERY) inexpensive
    lodging.  
    
    I want to leave at the end of next week, so I would appreciate any info
    you can give me ASAP!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jack

    
    
    
    How far is Black's Beach from Long Beach (how long of a drive)?
    
    Tryin' to get a scope on things...
    
    	kath

    About two hours, I think...
    
    I think that's how long it took me...
    
    B.

    
    
    Two hours??????????????  You're kidding, right?  from Long Beach?
    
    I think I need to find a map...I thought it was a lot closer (isn't
    Long Beach between San Diego and LA)?
    
    
    Hummmm...
    
    kath

    re: .8 (Kath)
    
          I have travel from the northern outskirts of Los Angeles to 
    Oceanside in about 90 minutes, as I remember.  Black's Beach
    (to which I haven't been) is north of San Diego.  Oceanside is
    also north of San Diego (about 45 minutes- 1 hour?)  So, my
    guess is that Long Beach to Black's Beach is between 1 hour and
    1 1/2 hours.  But I'm not real sure...
    
    
    Frederick
    

    I guess I need to jump in here as an "expert", having grown up in Long
    Beach and spent my youth traveling the coast between LA and San Diego
    in search of the perfect wave...
    
    For you Kathy a good comparison would be driving from the Springs to
    Boulder. Thats about the same distance as Long Beach to San Diego
    (about 90 to 100 miles), although you only have to go to the north end
    of San Diego (Torrey Pines area) which saves you maybe 10 or so miles.
    
    The traffic will be the biggest unknown. IF its moving well then you
    should be able to cruse at 65 to 70 MPH. The speed limit is only 55 all
    the way to San Diego but you'll get passed like you're standing still
    if you do that speed. Depending on when you go the going may be a whole
    lot slower. I've seen I-5 (the route to San Diego) moving at 35 in both
    directions on summer weekends.
    
    Another alternative might be San Onofre State Beach. I've posted some
    info on it somewhere in this conference. Its halfway between Long Beach
    and San Diego. Not a famous as Blacks but it is easier to get to.
    
    Let me know if you need any more info
    -dean

    
    
    Thanks Dean!  (Long time no hear, when are you coming out here to visit
    us?!) ;-)
    
    I didn't realize it was that far between the two.....
    
    kath

    Kath, another consideration is how long it takes you to get from where
    you are in Long Beach to Rte. 5 Freeway.  It is a ZOO during rush hour
    (20+ hours a day??).  Once you are south of Orange County the freeway,
    although busy, moves along at 70 to 75 mph.  (It's kinda like I-495). 
    But 2 hours seems reasonable.  And you DO NOT want to use the Pacific
    Coast Highway (PCH, Cal. Rte. 1)!!
    
    Jack (Who worked out of our Irvine office for a couple months, and went
          to Black's Beach every weekend!)

The following note is entered for a reader who wishes to remain anonymous.

	-Neil Faiman, NATURISM moderator


Trip Report - Black's Beach 7/31/91


Made it down the path with the steps without falling.( A major accomplishment)

headed north up the beach, not sure at this point if I was in the C.O. Area.

Got about 100 yards up the beach and came upon a parade of single men some nude
some not who seemed to be interested more in each other than in enjoying the
sun.

I decided at this point not to disrobe unless there were some people on the
beach who were there to enjoy the sun, preferably some couples or even just
singles who were sunning themselves. I walked the length of the beach. I saw 
only 3 women on the entire beach who were nude or topless. ( There were a few 
groups of high school kids who were obviously sight seeing. There were probably 
500 men who were obviously gay, and on the prowl.

Since I was alone this posed quite a dilemma to me. I am not gay. I am quite 
tolerant, but do not like to be approached and be propositioned. As a single
male I am sure many thought I had similar interests. I finally settled down
(Nude) near a couple. I had not been there more than a couple of minutes 
before I was approached by one of the gay group, who was very direct in making
his wishes known. After I told him to get lost another stopped, same approach,
although not quite as aggressive. I got up, got dressed and left.

1. Did I hit the beach at an off time (weekday) and was that why so few 
non-gays were there?

2. Is there something I should have done as a single male to let them know I 
was not interested.

3. I did ask a life guard patrol about the legal status of the beach. He said 
that nudity is illegal on the beach and that they were considering enforcing
it because of the "undesirables" that it brings...

I will appreciate your comments...

dick

The preceding trip report brought to mind the following message, which was
posted on the Usenet a month or so ago.

	-Neil


               <<< MOIRA$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]REC_NUDE.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Usenet rec.nude archives >-
================================================================================
Note 553.0                        My First Time                       15 replies
MOIRA::FAIMAN "paulas@rnbsoft.com (Paula Stewart)"   67 lines  26-JUN-1991 02:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 4725
From: paulas@rnbsoft.com (Paula Stewart)
Subject: My First Time
Organization: R and B Software
 
Recently, my boyfriend and I took a trip to Black's Beach.  It was our
first time there, and my first time ever at any nudist "gathering".  The
lack of other women there was quite conspicuous (we may have seen five the
entire day), and only a little uncomfortable for me.  We settled in a
relatively deserted spot, and shortly another couple settled a few yards
away.
 
Within a couple of hours at least eight single men layed down their towels
within a few yards of us and the other couple.  Now, it was not a great
beach day (a little cloudy and cool), and the rest of the beach was almost
completely unoccupied, but our one little spot was getting terribly
crowded.
 
Among the men who flocked to our little corner there was one who positioned
himself about fifteen feet away (well within earshot of us), with quite a
strategic view of my crotch.  There was another who did the same to the
other lady a few yards away.
 
Then there was the pervert who approached us carrying his camera (complete
with telephoto lens) under his arm, and shooting (photos) from the hip.
My boyfriend commented to me on what the guy was doing and what a creep he
was, just loudly enough so that he could hear us, and *then* the guy mosied
over and asked our permission to take our pictures.  When we refused, he
approached the other couple with the same request.
 
The most obnoxious guy, though, was the one behind us half way between us
and the other couple.  He had an umbrella that he layed at his feet to
block the view of him from most of the beach, but we had a pretty clear
view, and had to strain occaisionally *not* to look at him.  *Not* looking
at him became quite a goal of mine because he spent the entire time
JACKING OFF!!!!!!!  And I don't mean leisurely or discretely.  He quite
vigorously massaged his cock ALL DAY LONG!!!
 
Well, eventually we couldn't stand it anymore and moved to a different spot
further down the beach.  As we walked away, I debated on whether or not to
invite the other couple to join us, but we decided against it.  We settled
in another, completely deserted spot, and took a short dip in the ocean.
When I came out of the water, I noticed the other couple laying their
blanket down a few yards away.  I went over and invited them to join us.
They were very nice, and as appalled as we were at the crowd we had drawn.
 
Not fifteen minutes after we had moved, the guy who had earlier settled at
my crotch showed up, and layed his towel down VERY close to us.  My
boyfriend thankfully requested that he leave us alone, and he got up and
left without a fuss.
 
Then, a few minutes later, Mr. Masturbation REJOINED US!!!  He settled a
little further away this time (so it wasn't quite so easy to ask him to
leave), and continued jacking off.  I couldn't believe it!!  We had thought
that he might cum eventually, and take a rest, but he just kept yanking it
all day long!
 
Is this what I should expect?  Is this normal?  I really don't want to
sound accusatory or indignant, but I *am* curious about how common an
experience this was.  The adventure hasn't scared me away from all nude
beaches and resorts, but I'm quite certain I would never go alone, and, as
we discussed with the couple we met, I intend to congregate with the
women and couples as much as possible.  My boyfriend assures me that this
was an exceptional experience, but with all due respect, he's more
accustomed to going to nude beaches alone, as opposed to with a woman.
 
Paula Stewart

    "undesirables" is such a general term but is used to describe a
    specific group of people in situations like this.
    
    The Quarry in Milford, MA. was raided and closed because of a
    group of "undesirables" were running rampant there and attracted
    the attention of the local police chief.  Turns out that the place
    was advertised in a national magazine and certain people were
    running out onto the main highway naked and propositioning people 
    in their cars.  (that's what was told to me).
    The police chief then had the entire place cleared out even though
    the naturists were behaving themselves and took care of the place.
    We were just lumped into the same group of people who were considered
    "undesirables".

    WHEW!!!
    
    These are horror stories! (-.1,-.2)
    
    I have been only to one c/o locale (described in an earlier entry -
    Canaveral National Seashore), so can't comment on whether this sort of
    thing is common at some places, but in my three visits to CNS, the
    place was a model of decorum. 
    
    It was mostly males, many of them in couples. One or two men "looked me
    over" as I walked by or as they walked by me. Nothing that I wouldn't
    have done myself w/respect to a female I might see passing by (and I am
    NOT an ogler). A guy offerred me a lift from the parking lot (about a
    mile); I accepted; we chatted about weather and all the cars. When he
    dropped me off, he made some remark or other about seeing me in a while
    (he had to go park the car). I suppose this may have been a discreet
    attempt at a pickup (I never saw him later). I am sure that many
    (most?) of the males at the beach without female partners were gay. I'm
    not. So what? The beach was a place for sunning, playing, visiting, 
    swimming. People seemed to have a very proper unwritten code.
    
    There were women there, all accompanied. Ya know what? I picked a spot
    to lie down where the scenery was attractive. I wasn't ogling; not
    thinking lascivious thoughts. I was admiring, though. And who knows,
    they may be telling about the pervert who parked next to them. I hope
    not. 
    
    The truly obnoxious "undesireables" certainly can make it difficult for
    just plain folks to relax, can't they?
    
    Maybe I'll never go to another C/O spot, so I don't spoil the idyllic
    image I developed at CNS!
    
    

    re: .-1
    
    	Your experience was a far cry from mine.  When I was there, I met
    some very nice couples, everyone seemed friendly.  The males actually
    were very few in comparison to the number that supposedly shows up.
    And I think I mentioned this before, but the day I was there, I passed
    three couples making out on the beach... all of them were male/female
    couples, and it certainly didn't seem to bother them that other people
    obviously  knew what they were doing.  
    
    	Guess it depends on what day you're there.  Interestingly also, was
    the young woman "park ranger" that I conversed with.  She told me on
    her days off she comes down to the beach to swim and sun nude.  That
    sure made me feel better about nudity on the beach!
    
    Darrell
    

                             Hill Climbing... or,

                         A Report From Black's Beach


      I spent a few days in the San Diego area last week (8/7 - 8/11) and
   was able to get some time away from my schedule for a trip to Black's
   Beach (actually, two trips). For those who don't want to read through
   this whole note, let me summarize - it was ok.

      On Friday, I had planned on calling the Swallow Sun resort (see
   note 118.3) to see whether I could spend some time there and check the
   place out. Unfortunately, things didn't go as planned and I had to
   drive up to Orange County (wasted over three hours just in travelling).
   By the time I got back to San Diego, it was past 3:00 and I knew I
   wouldn't be able to make it east to the resort and spend any measurable
   amount of time there (since I had plans for the evening). So instead, I
   decided to stop by Black's Beach.

      Finding the beach is relatively easy, as long as you keep your eyes
   open while looking for the entrance to the gliderport. Once you make
   the turn into the entrance you can park on the dirt, close to the
   "shack" which is where the glider folks congregate. The weather wasn't
   terrific and there wasn't much activity either at the gliderport or at
   the beach. I stepped over the chain which blocks access to the cliffs
   and took a look around. The view is incredible.

      There was a guy wearing a lifeguard shirt sitting near the very
   edge of the cliffs and I asked him what he was doing up there. He
   said that from that height he can see about three miles around and
   then can radio down to the other guards on the beach if he sees anything
   go amiss. He also stated that there haven't really been many water
   rescues recently, most of their rescues have been on the cliffs.

      Even though there is a clearly marked, paved, and "approved" trail
   leading down to the beach, some people still insist on climbing down
   through other places. Sometimes they'll work their way down to a
   section from which they can neither continue down or return back up
   to the top, so the lifeguards have to help them out. Personally, I
   might've just left the assholes there (well, maybe not).

      The marked trail is at the south end of the cliffs. There's a vendor
   here with sodas, cookies, and such. I'm convinced that most of their
   sales are made to folks on the way up the cliffs, not down. This is
   because going downhill is so easy. Part of the trail is paved, there
   are steps built into the cliff at certain sections, and the remainder
   is, well, DOWNHILL! Just watch your step as some sections are covered
   with loose soil and sand.

      Climbing back up the trail is rough! I haven't exercised that hard
   in months, and my heart was not too happy about it. Neither were my
   legs and ankles. Once you get back to the top of the cliff, the
   vending stand is there waiting for you. At this point you'll want to
   replenish all the fluids and calories you lost on the way up, once
   your heart slows down and you can breath again, that is. I spoke to
   the girl who ran the stand and she said she was waiting for permits
   to bring the stand onto the beach. Apparently, the administrative
   machinery runs very slow in San Diego when it comes to doing something
   beneficial for the Black's Beach visitors. In her words, "They don't
   want to do anything nice for the nude beach."

      (On the other hand, does she really want to lug those things up and
   down the cliff?)

      Once on the beach you can turn north or south and see people with and
   without clothing or bathing suits. The southern end seemed more crowded
   because there's a sign which advises against passing a certain point as
   it is considered dangerous. My guess is there's probably some cliff
   erosion and rock slides here. I walked past the sign a bit and the only
   people I saw were way south of the CO area and it appeared they were
   all surfin' dudes. :-)

      Heading north from the trail there are people scattered everywhere,
   rather than bunched together like those to the south. There was one
   volleyball game in progress, but only six people were playing. As you
   continue north you'll find a lifeguard station located near a washed
   up buoy. There's another trail here heading up the cliff, but it isn't
   paved and it didn't seem nearly as easy (from a climbing sense) as the
   paved trail to the south.

      The beach continues north, past the lifeguard station. There were
   some more people here scattered about. Also, as has been previously
   noted, the concentration of single/coupled men in this area was
   greater than the area near and south of the lifeguard station. I didn't
   bother walking all the way to the end of the beach. Instead, I turned
   back and walked to the main trail. The sun had not come out from behind
   the clouds and I had to get back to my hotel.

      I was expecting a lot more people, especially for a Friday. But as
   I mentioned, the weather wasn't too tremendous and I suppose this was
   a reason for the limited number of people.

      As for the "quality" of the people, well it was a mixed group as
   should be expected. While walking through the section south of the
   main trail I noticed "Pee Wee Herman" standing in the surf doing his
   "thing". Even though the gentlemen had his back towards the beach, it
   was obvious from his body movements that he was masturbating. When he
   was finished, I noticed that he sat down next to two bathing-suit clad
   girls on the beach, and they seemed to know each other.

      There was a relatively large number of clothed, Spanish-speaking
   men walking around and looking at the few nude women on the beach. I
   didn't understand most of what they were saying, but their facial
   expressions and other "clues" tell me they weren't discussing politics.

      I was able to return again on Sunday, when the weather was better.
   This time there were significantly more people there (three vollyball
   games in progress). But I still don't understand why the beach has
   such a reputation. To me, it seemed like any other nude beach that I've
   been to, only it was harder to get to and it was bigger.

      Sunday's mix of people was much like Friday's. One group of people
   I was annoyed with (but I didn't say anything) was "papparazzi row".
   About halfway between the main trail and the lifeguard station was a
   group of five guys with umbrellas sitting at the high-water mark. They
   all had cameras and when I looked over at them about three snapped
   pictures and then put the cameras down. It's not that I would mind
   having my picture taken, it's just that I'd liked to be asked first,
   and I'd like to know how they were to be used (published, etc). As it
   is now, there are three pictures of me walking nude along the beach
   and I haven't the foggiest idea where they'll show up.

      I put a blanket down near a group of people that were playing
   volleyball. There were other couples there so I wasn't too concerned
   about the "wrong" people coming to harrass me. At one point though, I
   sat up and noticed that a guy was sitting behind me and to my right.
   I didn't hear him walk over. He appeared to be watching the volleyball
   game, and didn't bother me.

      During this time I saw a guy walking on the beach selling shirts. I
   called him over and bought one of the t-shirts he was carrying. (He had
   t-shirts and muscle shirts, FYI.) According to him, they aren't available
   mail order which makes them so "exclusive". You have to be on the beach
   to buy one. At $15 they're priced only a bit higher than other t-shirts
   I've bought.

      (While I was at the beach on Friday, someone was given a summons
   for vending, which is apparently prohibited without permits. I guess
   this guy with the shirts wasn't concerned, or had somehow finagled
   a permit. I forgot to ask. Also, the transaction was right out in the
   open, without going through the ridiculous steps mentioned by Ben in
   an earlier note.)

      Something interesting about one of the volleyball games that was
   started near me: There were eight people involved, six men and two
   women. The men were dressed in shirts and shorts, the women were nude.
   This interested me for two reasons. First, I wasn't paying that much
   attention but I don't think the men were with the same group of people
   that the women were with. That is, the guys just walked over and asked
   to start a game and the girls stood up and joined them.

      Second, we read and hear a lot about girls being less comfortable
   with being nude in group situations. And yet, here were two attractive,
   nude women playing volleyball with six clothed guys, who they may not
   have know all that well. (One woman played on either side of the net.)
   Kind of breaks the mold, don't you think?

      Around 5:00 some clouds moved in and people started leaving the
   beach. I also picked up my things and started heading for the main
   trail. As I approached "paparazzi row" I considered walking towards
   the cliffs to avoid the cameras but I noticed that the guys were
   getting dressed so I walked past anyway. I didn't notice any shutters
   clicking as a went by, so I guess they used up all their film. :-)

      Other notes: There was a older gentleman there on both Friday and
   Sunday who had a wooden leg (below the knee). Both days he was just
   walking around, I think he was smoking a pipe. Anyway, I wondered
   how much trouble he had walking the cliffs, but I didn't bother to
   go over and ask about it.

      On Friday I noticed a bunch of fins moving around the water just
   off shore. I walked to the lifeguard station and asked about them. One
   of the lifeguards said they were dolphins and that they usually come in
   when there aren't many people around. (I was worried they might be
   sharks, but the lifeguard said she would've announced them if that were
   the case.)

      And a word about the sand. The sand was very dark, and blackish. It
   was also very packed. Walking on it was like walking on concrete that
   had a layer of fuzz glued over it. At one area above the high-water
   line someone had sculpted a dinosaur-like creature into the sand and I
   wondered if they had to use chisels. :-)


   Frank

   (Patiently waiting for the new World Guide to arrive so I can scout out
   other beaches during these little trips I occassionaly take.)

    

    I was told that there was an easier way down to the beach from the
    top...that's how the lifeguards get their vehicles down there.
    I believe it's down the backside of the Salk Institute...
    
    B.