Conference moira::naturism

Ben,
The one I have provides a SPF10 protection so it does the work of the lotion
but that feature also has the disadvantage of leaving tan lines.

-j

...but...:-)

	"Happiness is No Tan Lines". :-)

    Since we're on the general topic: anyone have an opinion on
    bikini-type swimsuits for men?  I mean the type with a 1/2"
    or less waistband, skimpier than your average pair of Speedos.
    I'm tempted to get a pair for the (clothed) beach this summer
    since I've finally developed a body of fairly proud of (as well
    as the physical freedom).  Do you find these attractive/socially
    correct or are they just hedonistic vehichles for exhibitionism?
    

    Bikini-type swimsuits for men are popular in Europe, in fact
    they are the norm.
    
    I have been asking people about that, having just returned to the
    States. From what I hear from those I've asked, I'll be buying a
    traditional suit. 
    
    

RE: .3  "...bikini-type swimsuits for men?"

  Yes.  Definitely yes.  As big or as little as you personally prefer.  Why
  should only women get to wear microsuits?

>>  I mean the type with a 1/2" or less waistband, skimpier than your average
>>  pair of Speedos.

How skimpy do you want to go?

>>  Do you find these attractive/socially correct or are they just hedonistic
>>  vehichles for exhibitionism?

First of all, your question leaves out a LOT of other possible aspects of
wearing a skimpy bikini - the most important of which is COMFORT.

Attractive?
   That is entirely a matter of one's own personal opinion.  I think typically
   that you'll find that most people do NOT find men in miniscule bathing
   attire to be attractive.  I also believe that that opinion is not based
   on any particular objectivity - rather it's based on our American culture
   and conditioning.

   As was stated in another reply (.5, I think) bikini's (as well as thongs and
   g-strings) are the NORM in other parts of the world.  They're quite 
   acceptable, and are not gawked at, laughed at, or made fun of...but here in
   the old USA things (still) tend to be a bit different.

   You may get comments (for example, even from your significant other) such
   as "That's not sexy" or "You look like a fag"* or "It looks too feminine",
   etc.  Why?  Probably because people are not used to it (YET), and don't
   know how to handle it.  Sexy?  Why do people associate sex with being
   nude or nearly so?  Feminine?  It's time we changed the way we look at
   things and at each other.  There's no good reason that only women should
   be wearing micro bathing suits.  And there's no good reason for men to
   feel it affects their masculinity OR their sexuality, whatever that may 
   be.

   I guess my feelings about the "are they attractive" issue is best stated
   in "Who cares?!?"  If you're comfortable with yourself and aren't 
   violating any of your own rules and regulations for yourself, then just
   DO IT.

Socially correct?
   In my own opinion, they (minisuits for men) are definitely "socially
   correct"!  But, does our society feel that way?  Not much...YET.
   It takes a long time for "society" to accept things such as this, but
   it IS happening.  And it happens by raising consciousness and by DOING!
   We need more people setting examples and showing the (American) world
   that it isn't dirty or disgusting, but that it is harmless, comfortable
   and a heck of a lot of fun.

Hedonistic vehichles for exhibitionism?
   Anything can be such a vehicle if you want it to, or if you let it.  I
   wonder why you ask the question?  You said you're developing a body 
   you're "fairly proud of" and I get the feeling you want other people to
   notice, too.  So this summer put on a g-string or a thong or a speedo or
   whatever you like.  Show off if you want.  If it IS "exhibitionism" so
   what?  Does that automatically make it "bad"?  Just do it.

FYI...

There was someone at the last NENA swim who was selling about the smallest
possible swimsuit bikini bottoms for both men and women.  They're practically
just a string in the back and they're so small up front that you'd have to
go "bare" to wear them. :-)  I think they were going for $15 or something
like that.  I think they also had similiar tops for women.

I was told that they would also sell these swimsuits at the next Swim.

B.

    Re. 7;
    Thanks, but the "swimsuit" described in the note sounds like just the
    thing for a Chippendale dancer rather than an average, and otherwise
    modest, joe like me.  I appreciate Peterson's take on all this in note
    .6; wear whatever you like but for the "right" reasons.  Summer is coming
    very early here in L.A.; 90 degrees last weekend, about the same this
    weekend.  Many in the crowd at Venice Beach were wearing little more
    than lengths on dental floss.  Perhaps the community standards in
    Southern California are close enough to parts of Europe that my
    question is a non-issue (at least here).  Going suit shopping tomorrow!
    
    Larry

    
    
    	I started wearing a thong to the beach this past summer. While most
    everyone will look you over, after a while you are just another person
    on the beach. The areas that I've been to have not been the large ocean
    beaches like Hampton, etc, but have been at lakes in N.H., Maine and
    Mass. 
    
    	At one lake in Mass. , there was one woman wearing one also and
    she got no strange looks. 
    
    
    	I think that the thong/g-string will become more 'visible' at
    beaches but it will take awhile to become common. Any other noters
    going to help with changing the style on the beach?
    
    ed 

    ...just gotta hang out with other people who like to wear thong-type
    swimsuits...
    
    The people who sold me one said that they wore them down at Carpenter's
    next to Moonstone.  The guy got some giggles from some teenagers but
    that was about it.  
    
    B.

    
    Yep, I've seen a couple at Carpenter's and everyone kinda looked
    for a minute, but nobody made it embarrassing for the person
    wearing it.  
    
    

    
    
    
    Thongs are much more comfortable than regular swimsuit bottoms anyway.
    
    I wear thong undies all the time, but finding a thong bikini that fits
    and looks good is difficult (most places don't sell them).
    
    Of course, I could always wear my undies as bottoms and no one would
    ever know the difference, right?
    
    kath

    
    
    Re .12
    
    Before I found a 'real' thong thats' what I did. Can't tell the diff...
    
    ed

    I would think that most stores wouldn't let people try out thongs
    before buying them for healthy reasons.  Some stores allow it if the
    customer also wear underwear, but it's kinda hard to visualize how good
    it would look with just the thong itself.
    
    RE: .12
    
    In some places, some underwear is just as good as a swimsuit.
    One of my friends was touring Europe and she ended up at a nude beach.
    She didn't have a swimsuit so she just stripped down to her underwear
    and enjoyed the beach anyways.  Apparently, no one could tell the 
    difference. :-)
    
    I got a copy of that swimsuit catalog from Sun Blocks.  I didn't know
    it only had men's swimsuits.  I was surprised that there wasn't any
    tan-thru swimsuits, though they did have a collection of thongs.
    
    B.

  Hi Kath,
   
    My girlfriend Amy used to wear her g-string underwear on the beach
  for some time, until she last year, when she decided it was even more
  comfortable to go completely naked.

   She has a thong bathing suit, and has been looking for some others.
  There's a couple of clothing stores in the natick mall that (in spring)
  has a good amount of bathing suits on sale, .. these stores usually have
  a good number of thong suits and bikini's to choose from.
  (I can find out the names for you if you'ld like)

   Also, ... dance skin places have a very large amount of thong type breifs
  that can be used as suits, and bottoms.   I'd say there's even a 
  larger selection at dance stores than at bathing suit stores 
  (and year round) ..

   Amy also wears thong dance skins (with the tights underneath) ...
  I think they look great, and are catching on ... she says the thong
  undies, bathing suits, dance skins and g-strings are much more comfortable
  than regular undies, suits . . . 

    I have also have a thong but since if I'm at a place where the thong
  is acceptable, It's usually also acceptable to go naked, .. in which case
  I do.


  paul

    
    
    Paul,
    
    	Re. Last paragraph.
    
    Unfortunately I don't get to any places where it's acceptable to go
    nude, so I settle for the thong. I have to make up for the lack of
    beach nuding with home nuding. 
    
    ed

    I also wear the thong undies (when I have to wear them). I find them 
    comfortable when I'm doing my areobic sessions. It's like not wearing 
    any at all.
    
    Ron

    Just so I don't get any smirks I wear them under sweatpants  :)
    
    Ron
    

    I'm definately in the minority here...  I think thong-type underwear
    is the most *uncomfortable* thing I've ever put on my body!  My
    husband can always tell when I haven't had time to do my laundry
    because I start wearing the thongs :-)
    
    - Kathryn
    

Don't feel bad Kathryn....you are not alone!  I can't stand them either!  :-)

Bob loves them except in the winter time when he prefers a little more 
coverage/warmth under his pants/jeans.  ;-)
    
The first time Bob put them on, he had his leg in the wrong hole.  Then the
coverage wasn't right!  It looked quite ridiculous.  Women have a slight
advantage by having the crotch liner to tell what direction they are supposed
to gone on.  That is unless they've done away with the liner....I don't know
since I haven't bought any recently.  It was a good way to note which was mine
and which was his after doing laundry too.  

Judy

    The men's version usually has a stitch down the middle because of the
    extra material needed. :-)  Even with that, it's pretty easy to
    put it on incorrectly by stick the leg in the wrong opening.
    
    They're nice to wear when not able to go nude, but they do get
    uncomfortable after a while because the back strap tends to ride up
    the rear.  Don't know how other people get used to them. 
    
    :-)
    Ben

    Oh, you men are all alike :-).  Imagine confusing a leg opening
    with the "other" one!!!  Wishful thinking???  
    
    Seriously, though, why would you need anything more than just leg
    openings on a thong, guys?  I mean, God, they're so small (the thongs,
    that is) that couldn't you just push it through a leg opening
    instead?  Oh, I'd better stop this before I get into trouble and
    Neil gets mad at me.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    :-)
    
    Actually, all the strips of cloth on a thong are pretty close to the
    same shape and size.  It's not like a g-string where the only material
    is in the front with strings on the sides and back.  It's pretty easy
    to put on a thong incorrect, if you're in a big hurry.
    
    I remember a couple of years ago at Moonstone, where some woman was
    playing around with some blue piece of cloth for the longest time.
    It wasn't until a friend went over to help that I realized that she
    was trying to figure out the front of her thong.  She kept turning it
    around and looking at it.  It was hilarious.  So, Kathryn, it's not
    just the guys who get confused. :-)
    
    B.

I find the thong uncomfortable to wear for very long they still need development
in comfort before I'll become a fan.

-j

  I'd say the smaller the piece of material in the back, the more comfortable,
  however, .. nothing beats the comfort of good ol' BVD's (or fruit of the
  loom's)

  Mens underwear covers much more than womens, when I put on a pair of
  underwear cut like a womans underwear (some of my underwear is cut
  in more of a V shape in the back, I never wear them because of this)
  I find them VERY uncomfortable, and they usually end up in a wedgie!

  I've always wondered how women can stand that!  I'd say for me, it
  would either have to be a thong/g-string, or a pair cut like BVD's.
  (the latter being what I wear)

  paul
  

    
    Re .24
    
    For me, it depends on the size, material and style. Some are
    uncomfortable. With most, I cant' even tell that I'm wearing them. 
    
    On the beach, I'd prefer a g-string to a thong because you can get more
    sun. But you have to push the limits slowly I guess.
    
    ed

I think I have the jocky brand theres something about the back strap
that is close to a strip of sandpaper. I wondered if other brands were
different but at $9.00 a shot I hesitate to throw good cash after bad.

When I wear jeans I find it more comfortable with nothing at all but with dress
pants and the thin fabric well I'm afraid of giving an unintended show.

Anyone care to share their brand names and subjective comfort levels?

-j

    
    
    I don't know the brand names but generally I stay away from the cotton
    blends in thongs. The smoother the material the more comfortable the
    fit. 
    
    Most of the ones I have came from catalogues and end up costing about
    $5-6 per.
    
    ed

Re: .27

Hi Gort,

I have purchased some at the Nice & Naughty in Old Colorado Springs. Forgot
the brand name, however, they should be easy to identify. All cotton, with a
double layer of material in front. The exterior panel is ribbed, interior is
smooth. I find them comfortable, (a lot better than the cheapies at places
like K-Mart). They cost about $6 to $7 if I remember correctly.

Yeah nothing is preferable, but there are times when that is not acceptable or
appropriate.

		Dave

Perhaps someone could clarify the difference between a thong, a g-string, and
a bikini brief?  I remember see a discussion elsewhere (Usenet?), but I don't
remember ever seeing a good description.

   Gary

    re: .30 (Gary)
    
         No problem!
    
         A thong is music to the ears of those who lisp.
    
         A g-string is a valuable part of a piano.
    
         A bikini brief is a very small suitcase.
    
    
    ;-)
    Frederick
    

    
    
    re. .30
    
    
    	Bikini brief : complete coverage front and rear (pubic area and
    buttocks). 1-2 inch sides at the narrowest point. worn low on hips.
    
     	Thong        : similar to bikini brief in front with about 1 inch
    material in the rear. Dose not cover buttocks. 
    
    	G-string     : very minimal coverage in the front (genitals only)
    and very narrow string of material for sides and rear. Generally what
    strippers wear.  (ie narrow = 1/8 to 1/4 inchs)
    
    ed
    

    I just got a beachwear catalog from "Kristi's from Overton's".
    
    They have a selection of tan-thru suits from Solar.
    They look pretty decent and there's more of a selection than from
    other catalogs.
    
    One of my friends has a tan-thru suit and I looked at the material.
    It's complete opaque against the skin, but if you pull the material
    out, it's quite transparent against light.  It looks like a wide mesh.
    The wild patterns help with making the suit hard to see through.
    
    B.

| I just got a beachwear catalog from "Kristi's from Overton's".

| They have a selection of tan-thru suits from Solar.
| They look pretty decent and there's more of a selection than from
| other catalogs.

	Is there an address or phone # to get one of these catalogs?


Glen

    There's a number on the catalog for ordering...1-800-334-6541.
    I suppose you could get the catalog that way.

    The address is:  Kristi's from Overton's
    		     111 Red Banks Road
    		     P.O.Box 8228
    		     Greenville, NC 27835


    I got mine through one of those catalog catalogs....

    B.
    

    Just an observation about tan-through suits.
    
    If you can tan through them, then you can probably 'burn' through them
    as well, right?  If that's the case, then do most people apply the SPF
    sun-tan lotion/protection at home, or do you wait to get to the beach 
    to try and apply it indiscreetly??  ;-)
    
    Signed, curiously yours,... Darrell
    

Re: -1

In theory the tan thru suits have an SPF rating of 10. So if the rest of the
body is coated with SPF 10 lotion then the tan should be relatively even.

It is recommended that the seams (i.e., leg and waist bands) be moved 
periodiocally to prevent lines where the material is rolled to form the seams.

In addition the suit is not 100% tan thru, the front of the suit (at least 
the men's) is lined with an opaque material.

Dave L...

    In the News this afternoon here in Penna:
    
    The Department of Recreation for Altoona, Pa. received over 40
    complaints this weekend when some young women wore "thongs" to the
    public pool.
    
    They said most complaints were from mothers of young children who
    thought the children were being "traumatized" by the skimpiness of the
    thong.  Said one talk show host in Pittsburgh over the story was the
    fact that kids LUV to run around nude and he doubts that the wearing of
    the thongs have any effect at all on the children. The host also stated
    that he thought the mothers were complaining because they were either
    jealous or too shy to wear the thongs themselves.  He asked callers to
    comment on how they felt about the story, of 16 callers, 14 said they
    favor the right of the swimmers to wear the thongs.  The other two wore
    fire and brimstone type dead set against it saying it was the work fo
    Satan.
                                                                          
    The Altoona Dept. of Recreation is going to push the city of Altoona to
    adopt an ordinance banning the wearing of thongs at their public pools.
    
    I think they should ban the complainers.
    
    
    

[I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks the words "binding referendum" are funny 
 in this context. \bob]

	ROUND LAKE BEACH, Ill. (UPI) -- Voters will get to decide whether
beach-goers should be allowed to run around in skimpy bathing suits
known as thongs.
	The Round Lake Village Board voted this week to place the issue on
the November ballot. Village Clerk Donna Langel said Thursday though
wording on the binding referendum has yet to be worked out, the bottom
line is whether the village should require a person's buttocks to be
covered in public.
	Some 1,000 residents of the village near the Wisconsin border have
signed a petition to ban the thong, which already has been outlawed in
parts of Florida, Detroit and Palm Springs, Calif.
	Kristie Martin said there are only two women in town who wear thongs
although a Brookfield man drove to Round Lake Beach recently just to
display his new swimwear.
	``It's freedom of expression,'' the 34-year-old unemployed pinball
machine salesman said. He declined, however, to reveal his name.
	Sue Pedersen, a mother of two, said she doesn't understand what all
the controversy is about.
	``This is silly and ridiculous,'' Pedersen said. ``It's not like
people are indecent here.
	``Look around. There are no problems here. If anyone's indecent, it's
those fat people. Gross me out. They're the ones who should be kicked
off the beach for indecent exposure.''
	Backes admitted his knowledge is secondhand.
	``I'm not going there to see if it's happening,'' he said.

>[I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks the words "binding referendum" are funny 
> in this context. \bob]

    No, I thought that was pretty funny, also.
    
    >.... the bottom line is whether the village should require a person's
              ****** ****
    >buttocks to be covered in public.
    
    I thought THAT was even Funnier!

    Interesting that one person thought it was only obscene if the person
    were overweight.  Not a very body-accepting statement.  Most true
    nudists/naturists would not have made that statement.
    
    Jack

Did anyone see the Mike Royko article from the 28-Jul-1991 issue of newspapers 
that carry Mike's column?  It pertained to thongs and whether to ban them or 
not.  If I get the time, I'll type in the article, two full columns, so it may 
take a while.

Judy

The bottom line is: Women should be able to bare it -- By Mike Royko


Because of my deeply held belief that women should be independent and equal
and all that other liberal stuff, I have to defend their right to wear the 
ultra-skimpy bathing suits known as thong bottoms.

These mini-garments are similar to G-strings, which are worn in strip joints,
and they are provoking controversy in many communities that have beaches.  

Laws have been passed, although seldom enforced, saying it is against the law
for women to wear bathing suits that flaunt their entire buns, although the 
lawyers phrase it with more dignity.

But in some towns, proper folk are in an uproar because they fear that their
children will have their morals ruined by seeing a woman's hindquarters.  Maybe
they think it is better for the tykes to be watching somebody's eyes being
plucked out in "Terminator 2".

I seldom go to beaches, but during a recent trip to Florida, I was sitting 
with a couple of geezers watching the dolphins swim by.

As we sat, several young ladies paraded past us in thong bottoms.

That was the first time I saw women in those garments except on the stage of 
some smoke-filled clip joint in Cicero.

My reaction, as well as that of fellow geezers, was: "Why not? You've seen one
dolphin, you've seen them all. At least this variety.  No two buns are exactly
alike."

And that was the surprising thing about those who wore the thong bottoms.  Some 
of the women did not seem to have the appropriate anatomy for them.  They had 
an excess of anatomy.

As one of my companions put it: "By golly, look at that one. Her hindquarters
are big enough to feed an entire starving Third World nation."

And that's why I think women should not be hassled for wearing thong bottoms.

Those who have the health-club figures for skimpy suits are a pleasant sight,
an adornment to any beach.  Or to a business office, for that matters although
most middle managers would object, the prudes.

And for those who have an abundance of anatomy, who is to pass judgment?  As
Slats Grobnik has always philosophized on any questionable course of action:
"Hey, it's your a--."

After all, in some cultures, a woman with a prominent South End Zone is con-
sidered a great beauty, while one who has what we might consider a fashionably
scrawny bod would be encouraged to eat more roots and grubs.

But those who demand that these bathing suits be outlawed say that the point
is not whether the woman is attractive but the moral standards of the community.

I'm sure that in most of these communities they have TV -- both free and cable.
So they can, and probably do, flip on the set and see movies, commercials and 
even sporting events in which scantily clad females are jiggling, shaking and
shimmying in ways that 50 years ago would have brought the vice squad thunder-
ing into any theater that allowed such goings-on.

Are the people who object to string suits flinging their TV sets into the 
garbage bin?  Of course not.  Nor are they gasping in horror and flipping over
to watch Bill Moyers.  A survey would probably show that after their wives go
to bed, 92 percent of all blatantly proper men are watching something real 
grungy.

What puzzles me about the thong-suit furor is that we have not heard anything
from any of the militant female groups, such as the National Association 
Against Gawkers (NAAGS).

These are the stern females who say if a man gawks, ogles, leers or otherwise
expresses silent by facial admiration for a female figure he should be sued
or jailed or neutered because he is only one pulse beat away from becoming a
frothing fiend.

The thong and string suits most pose a dilemma for NAAGS.  On the one hand, as
militant feminists, they must defend the rights of females to do as they wish
with their bods, including displaying 98 percent of their skin on beaches.

On the other hand, they object to gawking, ogling, leering, etc.  But even
NAAGS would have to concede that when a female person wears one of those 
outfits in public, she is making a social statement.  She is saying:  "Look,
I am displaying my buns. And why else would I put them on display if I didn't
want you to gawk, ogle, leer and hyperventilate?"

Then again, maybe they just like the invigorating feeling of sitting down on 
hot sand.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Reprinted without permission from the Colo Springs Gazette Telegraph, dated
7-28-91

    
>On the other hand, they object to gawking, ogling, leering, etc.  But even
>NAAGS would have to concede that when a female person wears one of those 
>outfits in public, she is making a social statement.  She is saying:  "Look,
>I am displaying my buns. And why else would I put them on display if I didn't
>want you to gawk, ogle, leer and hyperventilate?"

    
 It is fairly good, except for this pargraph. 
    
    

re:.43

Just shows you that Mike isn't a completely `with it' person, doesn't it.
Somewhat of a male-chauvinist oink.

Judy