Conference moira::naturism

	It may not seem like it at first, but this notes file  has  the 
	potential for being a very strong influence.  The power comes
	from "listening" to people who are "transparent", that is, 
	they have NOTHING to hide.  Laying on a public beach with
	nothing to cover your body, exposes your body to other
	people's scrutiny.  Sharing your thoughts, feelings
	and experiences exposes your soul.  Baring your
	soul sets a strong expectation that others
	will at least be honest with themselves
	if not with each other.  It causes
	one to ask questions that have
	perhaps never been asked
	before.  The asking
	penetrates  the
	social garb
	of conformity
	and exposes our
	inner self  to the
	fresh air of thinking
	beyond normal safe limits.
	Nudests who have felt free to
	share in this notes file hopefully
	benefited directly from doing so.  But
	the benefit did not end there.  They  have
	challenged people like me to think and question
	and learn and grow.  For that I want to say, thanks.

        Ken (naked without a tie) Enger

	What has changed, you may wonder.  You still haven't seen me on
	the beach or at a picnic so how have I been influenced  by this
	notes file?   At this point it is mostly an attitude change and
	not alot of behavioral change.   I have been risking going from
	the bathroom to the bedroom with no clothes on. Nobody has seen
	me yet but at least it is something new.  I told my family some
	of the thoughts I have read in this notes file.   My teens were
	squirming nervously.  All three of my kids said,"NO WAY" to the
	suggestion of going nude at the beach.  But at least  I  asked.
	Thats a change.  My wife wore a tube top for the first time the
	other day.   She wore it under a blouse but she left the blouse
	unbuttened.   She  went to the store and while standing in line
	she happened to look down. It suprised her  to  see  her  belly
	button exposed in public.  Thats a change.  So you see, reading
	this notes file has had an influence on not only my life but on
	the lives of my entire family.  These are not earth shaking but
	they do reflect your influence and for that I say thanks to you.

        Ken (I take my tie off earlier in the evening now) Enger
    

Ken,

I'm mostly a reader of this conference, except when deeply moved.
Your notes moved me, largely because of your ability to be personal 
and to openly reevaluate major aspects of your life and value 
system.  I believe this is a rare gift.

Just a couple of comments

I suggest that much of your reticence may be related to religion 
(the Bible).  You might want to question your interpretation of the 
Bible and its personal meaning.

Also, even if there is a relation between nudity and sex for some
people, why is that bad.  I believe that it is perceived as bad only
if you believe either sex or nudity are individually bad.

We can control how much society/religion controls our behavior.
I believe we should each decide for ourselves what is right and what 
is wrong.  God gave us a brain to make our own value judgements.

Also, I have a very close friend (male) who has MS; he and I shared 
much together (including nude beaches).  Based on your sensitivity, 
I suspect you each might enjoy a conversation with the other.  If 
you might be interested, just let me know.  He lives in Western 
Mass.

	~Mike

Ken,

I perceive you have shed many presumptions and prejudices, and in your
note you have unashamedly revealed yourself, and made yourself vulnerable
in a way that many of us have never been able to do.

It's as if you have become a naturist on a deeper level than the epidermal.
;-)

Richard

    As a somewhat belated reply to Ken's .0,

    When this conference began last year, one of the first decisions was
    that it would be not just an information service for naturists, but
    alse a place where those with an interest in naturism would have the
    opportunity to learn something about it in a completely threatening
    way.  Even a few of those who would read it simply out of prurient
    curiosity might gain a new understanding and dispell a few
    misconceptions.

    So thanks for your note.  It's rewarding to get the occasional
    confirmation that someone really has gotten something new here.

    Your comments on the loss of innocence are well taken.  I think of an
    author who described (some) naturists as, not naked people, but people
    wearing their nudity as others wear clothing.  He was making the point
    that we live in a clothed culture, and we can't discard all that a
    lifetime in that culture has taught us just by removing our clothes.
    Nudist society surely bears little resemblance to the society that
    would be found among people who had never given much thought to clothes
    and modesty.  But even if the nudist experience cannot offer a return
    to innocence, it can offer a kind of liberation that is valuable in
    itself.

    As for your doubts about sex and nudity:  well, since you've been
    reading this conference, you've doubtless seen that this is something
    that we argue with one another about every now and then, agree to
    disagree, and then start up again a few months later.  It seems obvious
    that the relationship of nudity and the social nude experience to
    sexual feelings varies radically amongst individuals, so that different
    people can honestly hold very different opinions on the subject, based
    on their own experiences and introspection.

    Anyways, we're glad to have you with us, and I'm looking forward to
    your future participation.

    	-Neil

    I'm sure that, in the first paragraph of the previous note, Neil meant 
    to say:

    "...a place where those with an interest in naturism would have the
    opportunity to learn something about it in a completely NONthreatening
    way."

    :-)

    Christine