Conference moira::naturism

Darrell,

>>	P.S. Hey Judy, maybe you could get the women started.

Well, here goes....and I believe I've broached this subject before
so I hope I don't sound like a broken record.  ;-)

There is a stigma created by society that says women should have 
'beautiful' bodies.  I don't agree with this (men AND women should
have the freedom to be themselves, not some figment of someone's
imagination) but that is what is thrown into our faces every day
in advertisements, the number of books on diets, videos of exercise 
programs, the number of 'work-out salons', the right make-up to use,
the sexy pantyhose to wear, dressing for work and play....the list 
goes on and on.

Luckily I do not subscribe to following the latest fashion craze.  My
hair does not have the latest perm or cut, I wear jeans most of the
time to work, I don't have fashion nails or wear make-up, I'm slightly
overweight (I am a Weight Watcher's member....when I weigh less I feel
better, can hike longer....and I'm doing it for me!)...I just don't 
feel the need to live up to anyone's expectations besides my own.

And with the deluge of the 'perfect body syndrome' that society feeds 
us everyday, I believe too many women believe it and follow it.  If 
you don't have it (the nice bod), well, er, um, you've got to be nuts 
(or be too embarrassed) to flaunt what you do have.  

I hear too often...the older man, with the gray hair, he is handsome.
The older woman, with the gray hair (!)....why doesn't she color her
hair to hide the gray?  It is OK for men to have beer bellies...but
not for women.  It is OK for men to have wrinkles...but women?  HA!!

I don't feel disgusted when someone with a non-perfect body is nude 
around me.  If people could just put away all that has been crammed
down our throats about the perfect body I believe the world would
have a much healthier outlook on life.

Judy

    but you will find some other comments on the subject in topic 34.

    
    
I have to agree with a little from each person, we also have 
to take into consideration that this goes out to everybody who
works for Dec..Some of the people who read this file are to 
afraid to say something thier personel feelings over a T.V.
screen.
   
It sure would be nice to have everybody who reads this file
to sign in, even if it was just to say ya we're here and keep
up the good work.
    
    Phil                      

    Phil,
    
    	About your comment on people who are afraid to say something
    personal on this TV screen;  it just goes to show you that many
    people are followers, and not doers.  They are so afraid of what
    other people might think about them, that they leave behind their
    own personal desires of what they really want to do !  Maybe that's
    why only 5% of the population ever achieves success (in anthing
    in life).
    							Darrell
    

    	
    	AMEN. Not bad Darrell, but it would really would be interesting 
    	to know how many people do read this notes file and wish
     	they could make it to one of the swims here in Colo.
    
    
    	Phil

    Let me digress back to the original intended subject matter..
    I personally (and this is a Californian's perspective.. and we're
    all weird out here, male and female, right!) find a fairly even
    distribution even among close friends of both men and women of the
    naturist persuasion.  Although
    with the 1.8 women per male that would still say women are holding
    back.. I do know that at one time Lupin (See Roll Call .29) had
    a policy of insuring that membership never got askew, by requiring
    new members to come in pairs, 1 male and 1 female.  This assures
    no particular gender is over represented.  Now this may conjer up
    all kinds of questionable reasoning on the parts of the curators
    at Lupin, but generally it never really kept anyone out.  We have
    gays, heteros' and have even had some pretty belligerent redneck types 
    (which generally don't last too long from my experience).  At times
    they have actually had more women signups than men which allowed
    a waiting list of openings for single men.  
    Generally on the 'free' beaches one does tend to notice a larger proportion
    of males however.  Probably because it has to be an especially hot
    day to get women out there in the first place.. you know "they're"
    always cold.. well aren't they?                                  
    just pratteling along..rick

    By the way, I can't believe a ratio of 1.8:1.  The figure that I
    have heard for the US is 52% females, which would be 1.08:1 -- that
    sounds a lot more reasonable!
    
    	-Neil

    
    Well...... the article said "in the world" so maybe the stats are
    different just for the U.S.  Still, with more women than men, I
    believe the number of single women in naturism should be higher
    than what it is, (with the exception of perhaps, the state of 
    California, where one noter has already proclaimed the ratio to
    be equal).
    
    						Darrell
    

    
    A brief comment from an inactive member. I asked my wife once if
    she'd go to Moonstone sometime and she said that she was too heavy
    and would feel self consious. So we've never been and I always wondered
    if all the people who do nude beaches etc are perfect (ha)
       Last year we installed a swimming pool so at least we can do
    a little bit of skinny dipping. I asked my kids what they thought
    of skinny dipping and their response was NO WAY!!! They are ages
    10 & 9. Interesting how one's charicter is molded so young!!!
    
    Wil

    I think that, besides women being more self conscious about having
    a not-so-perfect body, there are additional taboos on nudity for
    women.
    
    Recently, I was at a health club, and I mentioned to a man something
    about women waiting to use the individual, private showers, when
    the public one was wide open.  He looked at me like I was crazy.
    They don't have anything but the public, group-type shower in the
    men's, and never thought about it.  So, even in single-sex situations,
    it is somehow more uncomfortable for women to be nude than it is
    for men.
    
    The other thing I can think of is public harassment.  We see what
    happens to women who wear too short of skirts, or have their tops
    cut too low.  I think many women are afraid of being ogled by men,
    whistled and hooted at, or even grabbed.  Fortunately, that hasn't
    been my experience as a naturist.
    
    Another thing is that women tend to be more ashamed and uncomfortable
    about their bodies.  I've heard that men walking past a mirror tend
    to look, and just go on.  Women tend to stop and fix something (their
    hair, a piece of clothing, makeup).  Women have also been sold a
    bill of goods about cleanliness and odor.  Look at the number of
    "deodorant" feminine hygiene products, deodorants "just for women",
    perfumes...it goes on and on.
    
    Elizabeth

re:  topic
    
    
    As a friend of mine named Lazaris recently pointed out, women in
    our SOCIETY (leave alone the rest of the world) have to be PERFECT
    just to be on an equal basis with men (who can be any ole way they
    want to be.)
    
    What I find somewhat contradictory, though, is that in my massage
    practice, the men tend to be shyer than the women...i.e., the
    women are usually nude while the men usually wear shorts, etc.
    
    Frederick
    

    The following note is being entered for a reader of this conference who
    prefers to remain anonymous.

    	-Neil Faiman, moderator

    ======================================================================

In this note it is said that men and women are judged the same.  Why there are
more men than women in the Natrist scene.  Men are judged just as harsh as
women are but I don't think they care as much.  I belong to a health club
that the showers for men are open and hold about 25 people.  Thank God I have
found another club to join because of the attitude of this one.  I have been in
the showers when someone has walked in and about 5 people have all but started
laughing at the person because he doesn't "have" what it takes to be a "man".
Men are judged too, but as I said, I don't think it really matters.  People are
people, and when you are in a stuation that consist of nudity, then what else
should matter except the person.  Things are alittle different at a nude beach,
but I have seen the same thing happen there.  Fortunately,  the instances are
few and far between.  Those are the people that shouldn't be there at all. There
is nothing we can do to stop them from going, but we can ignore them.  We are
better people then they are.

    I used to belong to a health club.  While the showers had dividers,
    the showers were basically open.  After a while, it got so convenient
    that I didn't bother wearing anything from the time I got in from
    working out to the moment I went back to change (after the steam
    room and shower and drying my hair).  No one ever said anything
    that wasn't appropriate, with regard to each other's bodies.  Each
    person would more likely be talking about what they needed to do
    in order to get this or that body part to be slim and firm, and
    they would be complimenting each other on how well they were working
    out.
    
    I guess you meet all kinds...