Conference moira::naturism

    Once burned, never again...
    
    It can be very embarassing for a new naturist to get sunburned in
    places that aren't used to seeing the sun.  It can get very difficult
    to sit down, but how do you explain that to people who don't know
    you're a naturist?
    
    I tan easily so I always start out the first couple of times in
    the summer with SPF 8 or 6, and graduating up to 2 by the end of
    the season.  I haven't gotten a sunburn in three years now.  It's
    gotten to be a routine to put on lotion several times while I'm
    out sunning so I don't have to worry about burning anymore.
    
    I remember someone that I used to work with who feel asleep on the
    beach and got her corneas burnt (along with all the skin on her
    face).  She had to wear sunglasses (even indoors) for several weeks.
    That sun can be dangerous.
    
    When people talk about the "bare" essentials, they mean sun screen
    and sun glasses!
    
    B.
    

    Actually, I've found getting burned once in a season makes it much less
    likely to burn again.  Still, it's not fun while the burn is there. 
    
    Another question is, what to do *after* you burn.  Up until I moved to
    Colorado, I didn't really know - I proved it impossible (during my
    silly teen-aged years) to burn in Chicago.  I had to do something
    stupid to burn in Florida.  But those high altitudes really get me.  I
    had to go ask some of my fairer relatives. 
    
    I've found that Solarcane works well to tone down the pain.  I've also
    found that various cocoa butter creams put on the burn several times a
    day seem to promote healing and reduce the chances of peeling. Cocoa
    butter also removes much of the heat from the burn, making it feel
    better.  In a pinch, almost any hand/body cream or lotion will help
    keep it moisturized. 
    
    As far as sunglasses go, I've heard conflicting things.  One is that
    they help protect the eyes from UV rays, especially for people with
    blue (or other light) eyes.  The other is that they actually make
    damage to the eyes *more* likely because they make the sun seem less
    bright.  Anyone know why there are 2 diametrically opposed stories
    around? 
    
    Elizabeth (who is typing with very sore shoulders presently)

    The problem (as I have heard it) is that some sunglasses filter
    only the visible radiation from the sun.  This tells your eyes
    that it isn't really all that bright out; your pupils open up
    wide; and that unscreened dose of midday summer ultraviolet does
    its work on your eyes.  (My high school shop teacher told us
    horror stories about people doing arc-welding without goggles.
    Same problem:  it doesn't *look* that bright, but it's the UV
    that does the damage.)
    
    So, those cheap sunglasses really can make damage more likely. But
    most of the decent sun glasses that I've seen (even the clip-on
    plastic ones) say on the label that they block UV.  Those are
    the ones that you should look for.
    
    	-Neil

    Re: .0
    
    My understanding is that beyond SPF 15, there isn't much difference
    between various levels.  It isn't worth the trouble or the expense
    to hunt for anything stronger than 15.
    
       Gary

The following is excerpted from the June 1988 issue of SELF magazine:

	SPF 8	The best-bet sunscreen for the 70 to 80 percent of Americans
		with medium to dark skin.  Since it screens out 87.5% of all
		UVB rays... SPF 8 greatly reduces sun damage, yet still allows
		you to tan.

	SPF 10	Got fair skin that burns before it tans?  Make your SPF at 
		least 10, meaning you can up your sun-time tenfold before
		burning.  If in doubt, upgrade to SPF 15, currently the 
		highest SPF recognized by the Food and Drug Administration
		[news to me! jk]

	SPF 25	"A point of diminishing returns," a few experts say.  Although
		this blocks 96 percent of UVB rays, that's only about 7 percent
		more than SPF 10 (90 percent).  So unless skin is ultra-sun-
		sensitive, you may be getting more than you need.

	SPF 40  How "more" is "less":  SPF 40 doesn't block even 1 percent more
		UVB than SPF 30, yet takes a quarter more sunscreen.  And since
		that much extra may irritate skin, it may not be worth the risk,
		say some dermatologists.

The following is also excerpted from the June 1988 issue of SELF magazine:

	**Don't** skimp on sunscreen and **do** put it on evenly.  Get
	slapdash with your lotion, stick or gel, and you sap its protection
	power.  In fact, researchers claim that Americans apply sunscreen
	so thinly that we lose about half its SPF value.  We also slather
	in some places (nose and face, for instance) and skimp on others
	(upper back).  To make your sunscreen live up to its SPF, it's got
	to go on thick enough to leave an allover film you can initially
	see and touch.  [elsewhere in the article it says to apply 1 shot-
	glassful...that's for people with clothes on...we naturists might 
	think about 1-1/2 shotglass fulls! :-)  jk]  ....  Three other fast 
	ways to dash sun worries: First, apply sunscreen 30 minutes before 
	going out in the sun.  Cool, dry skin binds sunscreen best.  Second, 
	super-dose face, ears, neck, upper chest, arms and backs of hands, 
	where roughly 90 percent of the most common skin cancers occur.  And 
	third, recommends Dr. Pathak (a photoprotection expert at Harvard 
	Medical School), don't forget to reapply sunscreen at least once 
	every hour.

    
    Does anyone know anything about taking PABA internally?  Specifically,
    whether or not it can protect one from sunburn?
    
    CQ

    I've tried it; it seems to help some.
    
    If you try it, be sure to use enough.  You need about 1000 mg/day
    to get any effect (according to articles I've read on the subject).
    
    Elizabeth
    

    RE: SPF (SUN PROTECTION FACTOR)
    May I suggest that you get SPF 15 provided (as Consumer Reports
    indicated) you put enough of the stuff on.  And the RIGHT AMOUNT
    (as shown in a photo) was just about a hand-full.  And that was
    the right amount for someone clad with a normal bathing suit.
    
    Since I have a heckuva time getting the suntan lotion on in the
    first place, I always use SPF 30 with the hopes of getting at least
    SPF 15 or so.
    
    My problem is feet!  One walk in the sand and you must replace the
    guk right away or ZIT!  You've got red feet tonight, tomorrow, and
    tomorrow after that!  Proof:  Here I'll put my foot up in front
    of the screen.  There: See?  Red Feet!
    
    Stan/

    I'm back! (Like the dinasaurs!)
    
    Anyway: Whilst at Atika, I ran a little Cancer Screening Center
    and gave out a bulletin which including the following.
    
    Help yourself.
    
    Stan/
    
    
                         SUN PROTECTION FACTOR (SPF) GUIDE
    
    Skin  		     Sunburn/Tanning 	   Minimum Recommended SPF
    Type  Pigmentation	     History		    4 Hrs  3 Hrs  2 Hrs  1Hr.
    
    	I  Very Fair Skin;       Burn/No Tan 	    30	   24	  20	15
    	  Freckling; blond, 
    	  red, or brown hair 
     
    	II  Fair Skin; blond     Burns easily 	    20	   15	  15	8
    	  Red, or brown hair     tans minimally
    
    	III  Brown hair and eyes Burns moderate-    15	   15	  8	6
    	  Darker skin	         ely tans gradual-
    	  (Light Brown)	         ly & Uniformly
    
    	IV  Light Brown Skin     Burns Minimally;   15	   8	  6	4
    
    	V  Brown skin;dark       Burns minimally    Minimum data use Type IV
    	  hair and eyes
    
    	VI  Brow-black skin;     Never burns, 	    Minimum data use Type IV
    	  Dark hair & Eyes       Deeply pigmented
    	  		         (black)
    
    
    

    RE: .6
    
    "Sunburn does not promote adverse effects except for short term
    pain and the esthetics of the situation..."
    
    I've seen a program on TV that claimed one *really* bad burn
    dramatically increases your chances of skin cancer.  They talked
    to one girl who got such a burn in Rio de Janaro (spelling?) and
    had since had over 40 (!!) cases of skin cancer that had had to
    be removed.
    
    Be carefull of *bad* burns!
    
    Kb

    I've copied this note from its original location, because of
    its relevance to this topic.
    
    	-Neil (moderator)
    
================================================================================
Note 94.10                      Insect Repellent                        10 of 14
WILMER::SKOGLUND                                     29 lines   2-AUG-1988 14:52
                     -< just a little info goes along way >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    geez the first time i browse thru this file i wind up being able
    to help... isn't that special..
    the anti sunburn pill someone referred to is known as p.a.b.a. or
    for those chemists, hi , para amino benzoic acid. taken at about
    200 mgs. a day for a couple of weeks it will absorb almost all u.v.
    in the dermal layer of the skin where paba concentrations are highest.
    dr. durk pearson and dr. sandy shaw have demonstrated  paba's
    effectiveness by walking across the california desert wearing nothing
    but a loin cloth and sandals with no visible burn after 10 hours
    of exposure......! paba by the way is the same u.v. absorber used
    in most sun tan lotions... only you get to take it
    internally...albino's are frequently given paba for uv burn protection
    since they have no ability to produce melanin...
    as for skeeters.... first skeeters are attracted to certain pheromone
    compounds excreted thru our skin... they have receptors for a compound
    that has it's origin in blood! some people excrete more than others
    and some foods exacerbate the condition... like banana's and certain
    nuts and... huh? i can't remember everything...but it will come
    back to me ... the reason bleach works is that sodium hypochlorite
    is an oxidizer and as such will oxidize the organic compound. once
    oxidized the compound is no longer capable of stimulating their
    receptors...    all other perfume type lotions or repellants just
    try to mask the attracting human pheromone! skin so soft works because
    it has citronella oil in it.... albeit a low percenatge but if you
    use strait oil of citronella the results are better! and as for
    b- vitamins.... there is just too much for me to list here..but
    suffice to say there is more misinformation than anything else.
    lars
    

    Notes 77.* also discuss sunscreen and sunburn.
    
    	-Neil

    Love nude sunbathing but...
    
    With the current media induced crisis re the ozone layer disappearing,
    I wonder if it is at all the right thing to do. 
    
    It seems that down here in OZ we are going to be the guinea pigs with
    respect to the amount of ultra violet radiation that are at present
    hitting us. Last summer (we got little sun because of excessive amounts
    of rain) the hole in the ozone layer opened up big enough to cover most
    of southern OZ. Since we already have the one of the highest rates of
    skin cancer, I wonder what is in store for us in the future? 
    
    I know of several people who have had skin cancers removed. Will
    there come a day when I need one removed from one of the more delicate
    areas of my anatomy, just because I have a red skin? 
    
    
    rgds Ted

>>    Love nude sunbathing but...
    
So do I, but this weekend was the pits!  We went to Valley View with a new 
friend (it was the yearly party weekend with limited guests, that's why the
trip was not announced in here...sorry) and my arms got fried with SPF 15 in
two hours of exposure.  I can't imagine what I might look like if I'd been
hiking nude!

Both my parents have had skin cancer and since my skin is reacting the way
it is, it has got me to wondering about my future prospects in the sun. :-(...
After I got this burn, I kept applying lotion and taking aspirin to take 
away the pain and swelling that accompanied the burn but it didn't help.  I 
stayed in the shade the rest of the day if I was nude and was fully dressed if 
in the sun.  Sunday morning, while eating breakfast outside the van, I felt 
the intensity of the sun to be so bad, I ended up putting on a long sleeve 
long-john shirt that was a light color, to shade my arms.  

Needless to say I did not get one minute of nude sunbathing in this weekend.
What a bummer!  Still had fun though soaking in the warm water at night with
no sun out, and just relaxing, reading, conversing with new friends, and 
hiking.  The simple pleasures in life!  :-)

Judy

Well, as you can tell in note 177.1 my `laying out in the sun' days may be 
coming to an end soon.  Besides the intense sun and the sun-blocking action
of SPF 15 not working for me my skin, is breaking out in a rash.  I'm wondering
if it is reacting to the PABA in the Coppertone we use.  Can anyone recommend 
a high SPF lotion that is PABA-free?

Judy

Yes, we tend to think of July and August as being mid-summer -- it's
certainly hotter then than it is now -- but (as the sunburn I got this 
weekend reminds me) it's worth remembering that tomorrow is the summer
solstice (in the northern hemisphere), when you can get the absolute
maximum of radiation exposure in the minimum amount of time.  As far 
as sun exposure is concerned, mid-August is equivalent to mid-April!

	-Neil

    Hi Gang:
    
    Remember the basic premise of Naturism: You wear clothes to protect
    yourself from the environment.  Generally, this time of year, it is the
    coo coo ideas of the opts that force clothing on people.  But, as we
    just saw, the sun can have its effect on things, also!
    
    Is that the meaning of Clothed in the Sun?  --)!!!!!!
    
    Personally, I use SPF 30!  I may be a cotton tail, but I can sit on it
    without cottoning lotion!  Also, if I put it on a little thinner, I can
    get SPF 15 or 20.
    
    I smell something (one?) burning!
    
    Stan/

    
    Whilst not directly a propos of Naturism, it is relevant to the
    subject of going out in the sun...
    
    [Information from a BBC radio broadcast] apparently sun protection
    factors are measured according to a quite different methodology
    in America and elsewhere. In Europe a DIN (German standard) applies.
    
    The net result is that SPF numbers on American products will be
    higher (often much higher) than on European products. Apparently
    the differences are only significant above SPF 10, but a product
    that would get an SPF of 20 to 40 in the States might only be rated
    15 in Europe...
    
    /. Ian .\

    a suggestion
    
    dr.durk pearson did the research and self testing on the following
    drug.. para-amino benzoic acid or more commonly called paba. taken
    internally at about 200 mgs a day for a couple of weeks it will
    prevent you from sun burning.... dr. pearson took paba for some time
    and then clad only in sandals and a loincloth walked for some 6 hours
    across death valley in the worst part of the day.... no sunburn...!
    and yes paba is the uv absorber/screen used in suntan lotions... only
    you take it internally... most good health food stores carry it...
    and while your there read up on it in a book "life extension" by dr.
    pearson and dr sandy shaw.....
    
    this put the shade on where the sun don't usually shine... 
    hope it helps you sun worshippers..
    lars
    

I found a sunblock that is PABA-free at our local health food store made by 
Aubrey Organics that is called Ultra 15 Natural Herbal Sunblock SPF 15.  On 
the label it says it has No Synthetic PABA, Protects Skin from UVA and UVB 
Rays, and contains Rosa Mosqueta (almost looked too much like mosquito!) and
Aloe Vera.

Says to re-apply every half hour or as needed.  Came out of the tube and 
applied as white lotion but soaked into the skin pretty readily to become 
colorless.  Was non-greasy and lasted all day for me....on parts that are 
already tanned (like arms and face).  I did not have one bit of problem with 
a rash, which was fantastic! :-)

Did notice Avon has come out with children's versions of suntan lotions (with
Snoopy and Friends pictured on the containers) and a couple are PABA-free.  
Will try it also after it arrives.  The Avon lotion will probably be more 
available for more people.

Judy

     Non-PABA sun screens are the "in thing" this year.  This is because of the 
latest indications are that both UVA and UVB can be harmful and PABA has been 
known to cause rashes.  PABA only filters out UVA.  

     This weekend there were at least 5 brands of non-PABA sunscreens at my 
local drug store.  Most of the non-PABA sunscreens are also waterproof, because
one of the active ingredients is waterproof.  I tried the Vaseline Intensive 
Care Sunscreen (available in SPF 2-24) and can personally attest to it being 
waterproof.  I have the strangest looking sunburn, because I used waterproof 
sunscreen on part of my body and regular on other parts and went swimming at 
the ledges.  If anyone is up there on Saturday you can see it(I am the one with 
the Digital Survival Kit Backpack)


Brian

	The follow is from the October 1989 issue of _Outside_.

	(reprinted without permission)

	----------------------------------------------------------------

				Death by Amoeba

	The Frisco Hot Springs in southwestern New Mexico looks inviting.
	So much so that a few who visit the translucent pool pay much
	attention to the small sign posted on the bank: WATERS OF THIS 
	HOT SPRING CONTAIN NATURALLY OCCURRING ORGANISMS PROVEN TO BE 
	HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH. DO NOT ALLOW THIS WATER TO ENTER YOUR
	NOSE.

	This enigmatic warning, *which could apply to just about any of 
	the worlds hot springs* (emphasis mine), is a masterpiece of 
	understatement. Two years ago, Daniel Young, a healthy, fit 
	30-year-old from Tucson, took a dip in the Frisco pool. Less
	than one week later he was dead, victim of a little-known critter
	called *Amoeba naegleria fowleri*.

	"There's a certain irony to the whole thing," says Young's brother
	Dale. "He went to the hot spring for his health, and it killed
	him."

	The amoebas, which thrive in warm, fresh water, enter the body 
	through the nasal passages. They nibble their way up through the
	olfactory nerve until, as Govinda Visvesvara, a research
	microbiologist at the Centers for Disease Control, grimly puts
	it, "They completely destroy the brain.

	"The amoebas need something to live on - protein," he says. "In
	the outdoor environment, the eat bacteria. When they come into the 
	human system, they don't have any natural food, so they eat brain 
	cells. They chew off bits and pieces."

	It's an ugly and sure way to go. Victims experience a searing
	headache and fever, followed by loss of sight, smell, and 
	coordination. They slip into a coma and usually die within five
	to seven days. Since the disease was first  diagnosed 30 years ago,
	65 cases have been reported in the United States, and only one 
	person - a nine-year-old girl - has survived. The most recent
	victim was a 31-year-old Las Vegas man who died after a dip in a
	hot spring at the Lake Mead Recreation Area last summer.

	The actual number of deaths may be higher, however, since state
	health departments don't require doctors to report deaths from 
	disease. That's assuming that doctors can diagnose it correctly.
	"It's possible that many cases go undetected," says Visvesvara.
	Fatalities have also occurred in Australia, Mexico, Peru, Japan,
	India, China, and the Soviet Union.

	"It's ubiquitous," Visvesvara continues. "The amoeba almost 
	everywhere, all over the world - in unchlorinated fresh water, in
	soil, in all kinds of environments." But it's the toasty warmth
	of a hot spring that sends *A. naegleria fowleri* into a 
	reproduction frenzy.

	Treatment is frighteningly unreliable. Potent antiparasitic drugs
	might kill the amoeba, but only if taken in the first day or two
	of the infection. "It's such an aggressive, virulent organism,"
	says David Siegel, the neurologist who treated Young. "Often the
	patient is moribund before the diagnosis is made. The brain is a
	very unforgiving organ. Once it's inflamed, you lose it and the
	games up."

	Still, your chances of contracting the disease are slim. In 
	Florida, a popular state for freshwater sports, the estimated risk
	is less than one in a million. "There's a very small chance that
	people who use hot springs will contract the disease," says
	Visvesvara, "but the chance is indeed there, and they should 
	swim at their own risk." Our advice: get yourself some nose clips.

    Thanks for posting that Judy thats kinda scary info but very good to
    know. Seven days... I can't get over how fast it exacts it's toll and
    the hideous fashion almost like something E.A. Poe might have written.
    I've never owned nose plugs but it might be time to change...
    
    -j

Oops!  I forgot to mention the article was sent to me by another Naturism
reader.  I give him credit for all the typing!  I got real grossed out
thinking about something eating on someone's brains.  Yuck!!

Now where are my nose clips?!?  ;-)

Judy

    RIGHT ON JUDY!!!

    You don't know how I ache when I see perfectly beautiful people frying
    themselves in the summer sun!  Those ultraviolet rays are for the birds
    (when feathered, of course).

    Cancer is something we never like to think about.  You know that for
    sure, dear Lady.  But the best of us will encounter it without notice
    and then look back to the day when that first cell came into being.  If
    we were our own cause, then it must be a terrible thing to realize.

    So please listen to Judy.  Please take care of yourselves.  Please stay
    around to spoil your grandchildren absolutely ROTTEN!  ... and your
    great-grandchildren also!

    The Higher the SPF the better.  However, there was talk of a problem
    with PABA containing sun-protection products.  I read a newspaper
    account which indicated that PABA, when combined with one of the more
    common ingredients in sun-protection products, may result in possible
    carcinogens.

    So keep the sun away.  Don't give cancer a fighting chance to gain a
    foothold in/on/or around your body.  Protect the kids, too!

    Stan/

Well, my Dad was told a couple weeks ago he has some MORE skin cancer....this
time on his ears.  So the doctor cut the areas out and told him to use lotion
ALL THE TIME!  Thing is he doesn't think about putting any on until he's just
about to step out the door.  Most lotion is supposed to be put on 20 minutes
prior to exposure.  

According to the doctors, they were successful in removing all of the cancer
this time also.  

Judy

    My 2 cents:
    
    My S/O is an Ear, Nose, and Throat Dr. In addition to the regular
    tonsels & tubes, she routinely sees OVER 200 cases/year of skin cancer.
    
    In nearly every case, sun exposure has been identified as a primary
    factor. The most deadly type of skin cancer, Malinoma, is also one
    of the most lethal cancers of any type, and claims several THOUSAND
    lives each year. Malinoma has been directly linked to sun exposure
    in numerous studies, and those who are fair of skin and hair, and,
    in particular, those who additionally have green eyes, are especially 
    at risk. Ironically, as much as I love the sun, I fit this example of
    a high risk individual, and so must be doubly carefull, especially
    at this high Colorado altitude!
    
    Kevin
    

Reprinted without permission from a Dear Policyowner brochure from the 
Kansas City Life Insurance Company for 1990.

Taking in the Sun?
------------------

Is a vacation to some sunny location in your plans?  Here's yet another 
sunburn warning.  If you are taking certain medications, you'd better not 
plan on taking in the sun.

Studies at the University of Arizona have discovered at least 25 antibiotics
and sulfa drugs that heighten sensitivity to sunlight, causing sunburn -- even
blisters and welts.  Worse yet, average sunscreen, which is designed to block
ultraviolet-B rays, is nearly powerless against the ultraviolet-A rays which 
cause photoallergic reactions.

Check through the following list of the most common culprits, before you pack 
your bags.

	Tetracycline (for acne)
	Chlorpropamide or tolbutamide (for diabetes)
	Sulfatrimethoprim (for urinary track infection)
	Diuretics or water pills (for high blood pressure)

If you suspect any of your medications, it would be wise to ask your 
pharmacist or physician whether anything you currently are taking might
cause photoallergy.  Even if you stop taking the medication, some are 
known to remain in your system for days, even weeks.  Your pharmacist
can suggest a sunscreen that blocks ultraviolet-A as well as ultraviolet-B.
And when you pack, be sure to include a wide brimmed hat and long-sleeved
shirts in your vacation wardrobe.  With these few precautions, instead of 
coming home with sun-damaged skin, you'll return with a sunny smile and warm 
memories!

    
    
    Any comments on the latest study that indicates many sunscreens may
    contain an ingredient that actually promotes skin cancer?
    
    
    ed

Get another opinion besides the Dow Jones & Co press release.  Read a recent CR.

They feel the device is worse than worthless, it is dangerous.  

\bob