Conference misery::feline

    A friend of a friend has two Ocicats.  I haven't seen them but have
    heard him tell many stories about cats in general.  He had Abyssinians
    and just recently, he adopted two Ocicats.  He says they are very moody
    and will only come to him.  They ignore his friends.  He bought them
    from a breeder in (I think) Hanover, NH that is well known and has been
    in the business for 20+ years.  He said her Ocicat kittens started in
    the $650 range.  I believe her cattery is called Aruby's.
    
    $300 vs $650 is a big difference in price.  Wonder what an Ocicat
    really goes for?
    
    Mau's are gorgeous.  My husband and I were hoping to find either an
    Egyptian Mau or an Ocicat to keep our Siamese company but we ended up
    adopting two longhaired cats (to get them out of an abused situation).
    I have a friend that swears that Burmese cats are the friendliest cats
    in the world.  When it comes to cats, personality is what shines
    through time and time again in every individual one.  I'm sure your
    kitten will be thrilled with a new friend, no matter what breed you may
    find.  I must admit, you have nice ta$te!  :^)

    Toby Goldman in Framingham (MA) breeds Egyptian Maus.  The cattery name
    is TEMEK.  Matt Goldman, her son, is still a Digital employee I
    believe.  Try getting in contact with him.  He's great to talk to and
    very knowledgable about cats in general.
    
    Let me just add my thoughts here.  Individual cats and kittens vary in
    temperament within a breed.  A great deal depends upon the environment
    in which they are raised.  The kittens that have been handled since
    birth and raised underfoot will surely be the most adaptable.  Try not
    to base your decision on what other people tell you about their own
    ocicat, mau, etc.  I have a Ragdoll cat, and he is very different from
    what I expected to get.  If I were to tell every person who asked about
    Ragdolls that Kelsey is aloof, loud, sheds a lot, and hates to be
    handled it could really influence their decision from a go to a no!  Be
    flexible, visit some catteries, and let the kitten choose YOU!
    
    :^)  Good luck!!
    
    -Roberta
     

    You can be just as happy with a domestic kitten as with
    a purebred kitten!
    
    However, having had 2 Burmese, they are purrsonality plus
    and also very attractive to look at! (-:
    
    Of course, if you really want a top notch kitten, get
    a Korat! (: (:
    
    Lynne

I too will recomment Tobe Goldman's egyptian Maus.  Contact Matt Goldman.
He is stil working for DEC.  He will give you his mother's number.  They
are wonderful cats, although a bit skiddish.  Tobe was the breeder of
CFF's cat of the year two years ago.  Temek's Sitamon.

Other breeds that you might want to look into are Oriental Shorthairs and
Cornish Rexes.  Orientals are basically siamese type, but do not have pointed
markings.  They come in any color from solids to tabbys.  They're really
beautiful!  I know of a few breeders.  If you'd like, I can get you their
names.

The cornish rex is a really neat breed.  Very relaxed cats.  Anybody who
has met Sweetie at the shows knows how relaxed he is.  He rides on my shoulders
to every ring.  Other cats don't bother him at all.  In fact, he's tried to
"mother" both Kyra and Pima when they arrived.  He's really wonderful.  Just in
case your cat book doesn't have a description of them, they're VERY short
haired, long tubular bodies, very distinguished look to their faces.  They
have "curley" hair.  It feels like soft soft cotton.  Wonderful personalities!

gee, can you tell that I'm partial to rexes?? (-:

Holly

whoops!  forgot to tell you that I also know of two very reputable breeders of
Cornish rexes as well.

Holly

	 Thanks for all the replies...what wonderful noters!
	 
	 I've already sent Matt a note.  I hope his parents have a litter
	 so that I can see them.

	 I agreee, the best way to know if I'm going to like the cat is to
	 see the mother/father and how they are brought up.

         I liked the look of Oriental Shorthairs but then found out they
         have the same characteristics as Siamese and since we're not too
         excited about getting a Siamese.....

         I did read about the Cornish Rex and found them interesting.  At
         first I felt they weren't going to be a playful cat but after
         reading Holly's note and re-reading the book maybe I should look
	 into them....so how much do these cats go for?

         It would be a lot easier if I could just get one of every breed
         that I like!

	 Thanks again,
	 Rania

	 

    Rania,
    
    You could (get one of each) but you said you didn't want to spend a
    fortune!!
    
    :^)
    
    -Roberta (who also wants one of these, one of those, in every longhair
              pattern known to catdom)
    

    
    
    How true Roberta.  I'd love to have my own little farm but could never
    afford feeding/taking care of them let alone buying them.
    
    Oh well...         
    
    
                                       

    I vote for the Burmese!  I had a male cat who was about one
    year old when my roommate decided to get a cat.  She brought
    home a four month old grey - sort of Simese looking thing.
    Of course it's awkward look kind of grew on us because she
    was the most lovable thing we'd ever seen - and she gets
    along great with our first cat.  After having a knowledgable
    cat friend meet her we found out she was only part Burmese -
    but the Burmese traits seem to have overcome her and it's
    wonderful - right down to the crook in her tail.  She has
    become quite a special edition - cuddly, always purring and
    very obedient - a perfect furball (but what a scavenger!)
    
    C.
    

    Just a reminder, you may not get to see the father of the litter.  In a
    lot of cases, the breeder may not be able to keep her own male cat, due
    to the difficulties in keeping a whole male.  The father may live in
    another state!  So, visit the cattery, see the other cats, and then
    make your decisions. Also keep in mind that a female cat that has just
    raised a litter for four months can sometimes get run down, and not
    look her best.  This is very common for my breed.  The females will
    often lose condition during the nursing period. (of course NDC swears
    this never happens in her breed so who knows).
    
    I have heard that the Burmese are very people oriented.  I was benched
    across from Michelle Clark (Burmese breeder from southern CA) last
    weekend and her champagne kitten was to die for!!  That kitten was so
    incredibly cute.  All it wanted to do was snuggle under her blouse. 
    She sat there reading a book with the kitten in her blouse, with it's
    head sticking out of the neck whole below her chin! :')  I would have
    taken that kitten in a moment.  Michelle's adult cat spent a good deal
    of time snuggling in her blouse too.  Too cute.  What little lovers
    they are.
    
    Jo

hmm... are cornish rexes playful!  oh yes!  I have two of them at home now.
Sweetie (the infamous Tu-tone's Sweet Sixteen.  Seen this month in the ad
in CATS magazine) and then there's Pima.  PIMA stands for pain in Mom's *ss.
She's SO adorable!  Her color is what they call a blue/cream.  It kind of
looks like gray paint with cream paint swirled all through.  

She gets INTO the shower with me every morning.  She doesn't just sit on
the side of the tub, she sits IN the tub while I'm taking a shower!  Just
stands there and looks at you in disbelief.  How on earth can her human
subject herself to such torture??

And playful?  The both of them are unbelievable playful!  They love a kitty
teaser.  Sweetie will jump about chest high to catch the teaser.  And they
"kill" those furr mice.

What do they go for?  Well, a pet quality will probably go for about $200
to $300.  Not quite sure.  If you'd like, send me some mail and I'll send 
the name of the breeder here in Massachusetts.   It's Sweetie's breeder and
he lives in Eastern Mass.

Holly

    Another vote for Burmese!
    
    My Rico is a shy, sweet little 5 year old who positively adores me, and
    if he had his way would be permanently attached to my skin!  He adapted
    rather well to his newer little sister Alex.
    
    Originally, I wouldn't call Rico "people oriented", as whenever anyone
    came over, under the bed he'd go.  But since our Tiki died (Tiki was
    our "People inspector"...we knew that if Tiki wouldn't go up to a
    person, that person wasn't to be trusted), Rico has taken it upon
    himself to overcome his shyness to a degree and come out and "check
    people out".  What he does NOW is go under the bed, wait a bit, come
    out, check the person over, make his "proclamation" (either rub or
    run), then back under the bed.
    
    K.C.

well, as one of the humans owned by a javanese and a birman, I can recommend
either breed as sociable (with humans and other animals) and playful....The
Flash (javanese) and Dilly (birman) play throughout the house and  all day
long when I am around.  They love their cat tree and both are agile, and
adept acrobats...better entertainment than anything on TV.  Both cats are
clever and CURIOUS...which can be a bit difficult - I now have my kitchen
cabinets cat-proofed.  

The javanese is a talker, and often "hums" and mumbles to herself as she
goes from place to place.  The birman has a sweet, almost childlike approach
to life, and is seldom vocal...but she is also detectably happy when we
play "chase the furry mouse" and gets what I can only call a devilish
smile on her face when we are playing...when Dilly is happy, YOU know it.

Both cats, having been cuddled quite a bit growing up, are good at lap
sitting and general snuggling close when you sleep or sit to watch TV...

I love these two a great deal, so I am not unbiased, but I am sure anyone
who gets either breed will be delighted with their choice.

    While reading D's note I recognized a pattern that seems to be
    prevalent in our home.  The cats that look alike tend to play together
    and stay together more than those that don't.
    
    As far as shorthair breeds are concerned, how about a Scottish Fold? 
    No one has mentioned a Fold yet.  The are adorable, sweet, playful,
    quiet, and priced right for your budget.  I am sure NDC will attest to
    this.
    
    -Roberta
    

oh. shorhaired...well, then a Balinese (short-haired javanese) is a good
option. 

Or, if you like curious and playful, get an abbysinian...they are notorious
for their playfulness.

    I would also recommend a Scottish Fold. I have one of Nancy's straight
    ear Scottish Folds, Angus. She has one litter right now and another
    due any day. They are playful kitties with wonderful personalities.
    Nancy's kitties are beautifully marked. My Angus has a wonderfully
    thick and rich coat. It feels like your running your had through
    velvet. Any questions give Nancy or me a call.
    
                                        Alice

>>oh. shorhaired...well, then a Balinese (short-haired javanese) is a good
>>option. 
    
    Slight ooops here...a short haired Javanese would be a Colorpoint
    Shorthair.  Balinese are long haired Siamese. (In CFA that is)
    
    Those oriental type cats can get you confused.
    
    Jo

Thanks JO.  I was going to point that one out too. (-:  It is in CFF too.

Holly

    I have an totally adorable, lovable, friendly Scottish Fold who loves
    to play with his buddy Misha, (Birman).  The two of them chase each
    other through the house, oblivous to the humans who may be in their
    path. ;-)  I would definitely recommend either breed.  I also have an
    American shorthair mix, who is a total love and total lap cat. 
    American shorthairs have wonderful personalities, too.  
    
    I too, wish I could have one of each breed that's been mentioned, they
    all sound so special.
    
    Steffi

    Why don't you want a Siamese?  I'm completely prejudiced for the breed,
    I have been since I was a child.  :-)  I love how vocal my guys are,
    the personalities of them, their playfulness and of course their blue
    eyes.  All 4 of my guys have different personalities and are very much
    individuals.  It's almost like have 4 different people living here in
    the house.  
    
    Even though I feel that all the breeds have outstanding
    characteristics, I will always have at least one Siamese in my life.
    
    Karen

                     
    
    My boyfriend is dead set against Siamese, he says he never met one that
    he liked.  He said they are "nasty".  I also thought that Siamese are
    tempermental and single owner pets.  But since I decided to get a cat
    (never thought I could own one since I am allergic to cats) I did a lot
    of reading and talking with people about their cats and what they know
    of the different breeds.  
    
    From what I read, Siamese can be nervous and unpredictable, changing
    their moods from day to day as well as being lively and lovable. 
    Siamese owners tell me they are wonderful, playful, loving pets.  I
    think a lot has to do with how they are treated when they are growing
    up.
    
    So even though I'd probably consider getting a Siamese kitten the
    bottom line is that since Bob dosen't want one I won't surprise him
    with one.  
    
    
    ...Rania

    I think that Siamese cats are for folks who know a lot about the breed,
    character, etc., not for first time cat owners.  I have a Siamese cross
    who inherited all of the Siamese characteristics.  He is extremely
    vocal (to the point of annoying), rowdy, and high strung.  Taja can be
    very loveable and sweet when he's not tearing around the house bouncing
    off walls and tormenting the other cats.  I have to admit, as much as I
    love him (and I really DO love him!!  He is a beautiful kitty), my
    patience does wear thin.  From the minute I get home from work he
    follows me from room to room crying that Siamese cry demanding
    attention.  Siamese can be VERY demanding cats!!  This could have
    something to do with the fact that the first 10 months of his life were
    spent in a different home with dogs and children then brought to the
    Humane Society when his owner no longer wanted him.  I will never know
    the true reason why she gave him up but have to surmise that his
    disposition might have played a role.
    
    I think for your boyfriend's sake you should opt for a quieter, gentle
    breed like the Burmese, Scottish Fold, or Cornish Rex, to name a few.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I think you should get two kittens so that they can keep each other
    company when you are out ....  ;-)
    
    My vote is for the Aby and an Oriental (a Siamese in disguise!). They
    are very playful, friendly and beautiful ... but then I am biased ;-)
    
    
    Lisa plus PR&F
    
    PS Flo' has now FULLY recovered :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    

    With so many domestic short-hair (I mean 'mongrel') kittens around who
    really need homes, I would definitely get one rather than pay hundreds
    of dollars for a purebred if I were looking for another cat.  I 
    understand that with a purebred you would be much, much more sure of 
    what you are getting, but there are healthy DSH's out there, too. 
    Another less expensive alternative would be a rescued purebred, but
    that would probably be another case in which you wouldn't know if the
    animal came from good lines, was in good health, etc.
    
    I know I sound cheap, and I know (believe me, I KNOW) that the cat
    costs an awful lot of money in the long run, but I guess I get a little
    uptight about that kind of outlay when to me, DSH is just fine. And they
    do come in a wide variety of shapes, sizes, and personalities.
    
    Lisa Dean

    My vote would also be for a mutt-stray.  (But, this isn't an election,
    or a survey, so votes don't count.)  I now have 5 mutt-strays:  1
    canine and 4 feline.  Of the feline varieties, we count one colorpoint
    short-haired mutt with gorgeous blue eyes; 2 Maine Coon wannabes; one
    Japanese bobtail look-alike with a long, fluffy tabby-tiger tail.
    
    Cheap?  No, cheap is relative.  These kittens each have cost $100+ for
    their first 8 months of life -- and they are, and were when I got them,
    healthy kittens.  (This does not include the cost of food, toys, and
    the Arubacat tree.)  $100+ apiece for routine shots and
    spaying/neutering.  Just be aware that, if you plan to spend $200-$300
    on a kitten, have another $100-$200 in your budget for upfront kitty
    maintenance fees.
    
    These little mutt-kittens are a blast.  I can't wait to see what
    they're going to be when they grow up.
    
    On the other hand, I once had toy poodles.  They had papers, were
    themselves registered, and probably could have been shown.  I didn't,
    though, I just treated them like mutts (they had puppy cuts their whole
    lives).  If I were to buy another toy poodle, I'd want papers, proper
    breeding, and I'd probably pay the price.
    
    Why? I don't know.
    
    Jo-Ann

   >>one Japanese bobtail look-alike with a long, fluffy tabby-tiger tail.
    
    One of the main features of a Japanese Bobtail is the short, pompom like,
    curled tail that they have.  When felt, it feels twisted up like a
    pig's tail, and is only about 2-3 inches long.  Bobtails also are short
    coated cats.
    
    I am not trying to be critical of your note, just wanted to be sure
    that the right information about the breed was given since the author
    is looking into the shorthaired breeds.  Don't want to lead her astray.
    :')
    
    Jo  
    
    	

    In the years I have been buying purebreds the purchase price of the
    kitten is probably close to what I would have spent in vet bills
    rescuing a mutt kitten.  The purebred kittens came to me after already 
    having their kitten shots, felv test, worming, and "well check" by the
    vet.  All I had to do was settle them into my home and wait until they
    were old enough to be spayed/neutered.
    
    When I say rescue a mutt kitten above, I am not referring to those
    kittens adopted from reputable shelters.  Those shelters will also
    perform the kitten shots (at least one of a two or three series),
    worming, and felv test providing the kittens are old enough.  I am
    talking about taking a supposedly "free" kitten from a newspaper ad, or
    rescuing a feral or stray kitten.  This is where the exhorbanant costs
    come into play.  In the big scheme of things, no animal is "cheap". 
    Not when you are feeding the best food, buying the nicest toys and cat
    furniture, and providing regular veterinary care on an annual basis.
    
    Purebred lookalikes can be had at the shelter.  That is where I got
    Taja (Siamese/Himalayan cross).  Check around the shelters in your area
    or continue to scan this notesfile for possible adoptions.
    
    -Roberta
    

thanks for the correction on the color-point oriental/balinese/javanese, etc.
Of course, I get confused on the EASY things.

One point about the color-point orientals and javanese cats that I like is t
hat the siamese stock has been "crossed" with other cats - good sturdy stock. 
My flame-point Javanese, The Flash, has obviously some good old-fashioned
red tabby cat in her.  She has the lovely head (nice and wedgy, but not nearly
as extreme as a siamese, more like a refined "applehead" siamese)...and she
is strong and healthy.  My experience with siamese is that they tend to have
allergies/digestive problems (not all, but many do), and they are also prone
to eye difficulties...unless you get premium stock, which is alot to pay for
a pet.

Anyway, the real point to gettting the cat you want is to LEARN about cats
and how to take care of them....and raise your cat to be what you want it
to be.  I have my most adorable Missy Hannah, a domestic short-hair of unknown
stock, who is a steadily shining light in my life.  She is extraordinary in
her bonding to me, and her ready acceptance of the other cats I have brought
into her house...she takes them in and makes them welcome....she is 
affectionate, talkative, and ready to do my bidding...even when she feels she
must complain about it a little.  She is, in short, everything a cat lover
could want.

Whatever you decide, I ask that you keep your kitten indoor-only until
after the acceptable age to be spayed or neutered...each cat matures at a
different rate, and we don't need any more unplanned litters in this world...
and besides, the first 8 months of the cat's life is the time when you can
"build your special cat" by teaching your cat what you want from him/her.  If
you let the cat roam during this time, he/she will be more wild...and less
a companion to you.  In fact, my felines are happy indoors always - but I
have also invested in a huge cat tree and lots of toys to keep them 
busy.  

    re .21
    
    My Siamese can be nervous.  They don't like loud, unexpected noises and
    they also don't like alot of people around, but then neither does their
    owner. :-)  Siamese are very sensitive cats, maybe more so than other
    breeds (anyone correct me if I'm wrong).  They do tend to be one-owner
    animals and all of mine are very attached to me. But they are friendly
    with other people also.  Yes, they do get rowdy, but I personally would
    rather have that than a quieter, mellower cat.  I'm sorry that your
    boyfriend has such negative impression of Siamese.  I find their
    personalites very enchanting and I like the fact that they are so
    vocal. 

    Hi,

    I got a chance to meet with a bunch of Ocicats this weekend. 
    Grandmother, father, mother, 6-mo. old male, and 4-5 week old kittens. 
    What I especially liked is that they were all very friendly.  When I
    walked into the room I went to pick up the 6-mo. male and he didn't
    even try to run, I couldn't believe it. They were all pretty quiet,
    resting peacefully on the waterbed.  

    The two males in the litter had spots, where the females had more of a
    tabby pattern.  They were all cute (what kittens aren't!) but I much
    prefer the spotted kittens to the tabby pattern.  I like the 'wild'
    look!!!!

    I will be seeing another Ocicat litter this Saturday.  She's got 3
    females, 2 of which have spots.

    I was going to see Tobe's Egyptian Mau's tonight but she had to
    reschedule. I'll probably see them next week.

    And to reply to a few of the notes....

    I have considered adopting a kitten from a shelter.  I called two (Pat
    Brody & Milford) and they didn't have any kittens.  Both of them said
    to try back in the Spring when the shelters start getting kittens, well
    I don't want to wait that long.  I also like knowing what to expect
    when they grow up.

    I appreciate all the comments and information.  I'll let you know what
    happens. 
    
    ...Rania
                                         
    

    
       You should go for an Occicat or Egyptian Mau like you mentionned
       they have that wild look witch I like , I got a smoke Mau before 
       Christmas and my friend got a silver Mau they have that sweet 
       expression in their eyes witch is one of the characteristic of the
       MAU, and the Occicat well that will probably be my next cat I really
       like the silver chocolat. Please let us know what you are going to 
       get.
    
       Jean.
    
        

    Good Morning,
    
    I don't have too much time this morning but I wanted to let you know
    that I bought an Ocicat kitten this weekend.  The breeder calls her 
    cinnamon spotted although I find her more on the tan side. Maybe when 
    she loses her baby fur it will look more cinnamon????  
    
    She's a lot more vocal than Spike.  And a lot more cuddly, she wants to
    sleep under the covers, whereas Spike is happier on top.
    
    Thanks again to everyone who wrote replied to my note.  
    
    ...Rania
    

    Rania,
    
    Congrats on the new furry acquisition!!  See, and you even got a
    friendly, affectionate one too.
    
    May you have many happy and fun years together!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Hello again,

    Thought I'd write in about Cleo, the Ocicat. She's been a wonderful
    kitten but unfortunately not the healthiest.  It started out with a
    cold (which she eventually passed on to Spike).  And about two weeks
    ago ringworm!... which she once again felt Spike should share with her.

    I've gotten to know the doctor's at the vets quite well.  Figures, the
    cat that we paid for has been the most trouble, healthwise.  Spike must
    be quite pissed with me because since she entered the picture he's been
    given pills, eye ointments and now Conofite (for his ringworm).  The
    poor guy got ringworm on his face, above and below his left eye.

    I called the breeder and she swore that her kitty didn't have ringworm
    so my other cat must be the carrier.  At that time Spike didn't have
    ringworm so I found it hard to believe.  Oh well, what can you do.  I
    keep on reminding myself that its only a matter of time before they are
    healthy again.

    Well I think they are finally over their colds but the ringworm is
    going to take longer.  I've been lucky so far and haven't gotten it -
    crossing my fingers and washing my hands alot!

    The only thing that's bothering me about Cleo is she's got very loose
    stools, diarrhea, been that way since I got her.  At first I wasn't too
    concerned because Ocicat's have some Aby in them, and from what I
    heard/read Aby cats have loose stools, so I figured it was normal.  But
    the other week when I spoke with the breeder she told me the stools
    should be firm.  Her stools have been checked several times and have
    always tested negative.  I've been lacing her wet food with Kaopectate
    but it dosen't seem to make any noticeable improvement so I'm thinking
    of trying the pumpkin pie filling.

    So, asking for your advice/experience yet again, should I be concerned
    about her loose stools?  Or is this something that will improve once
    she gets better?

    Will 2 teaspoons a day of the pumpkin filling be enough?
    
    Thanks, Rania
                                                                    

    Rania, 
    
    Have you mentioned the diarrhea to your vet?  If Cleo has been on
    antibiotics for her cold, then she may have gotten the diarrhea from
    the antibiotics.  Heavy doses of antibiotics can kill off the good
    bacteria in the intestine, and lead to diarrhea.  If she is on meds for
    the cold, I would start offering her small amounts of yogurt to help
    replace that bacteria.  Also, a treat of cottage cheese will help firm
    up stools in most cases.
    
    It is not normal for a kitten to have diarrhea, and prolonged diarrhea
    can seriously affect a kitten's health.  You should talk this problem
    over with your vet.
    
    Now, about ringworm.  It is possible that Spike was carrying ringworm,
    but unlikely since he also broke with it.  If he was carrying it, Cleo
    would have gotten it but not him since his immune system was used to
    it.  It is very possible that your breeder does not have ringworm in
    her cattery, since her cats may be immune in their own home, but when
    you take a kitty from that situation and stress him out, he can break
    with it.  It was probably 3 weeks after you got Cleo that you noticed
    the ringworm, right?
    
    This is one reason that I insist on isolating new cats for at least
    three weeks.  I also ask my buyers who have other pets to isolate the
    kittens that they get from me for three weeks.  Three weeks seems to be
    the magic amount of time that these things will show up in.
    
    As far as how to get rid of ringworm and fast:  Conofite is pretty
    good, but very expensive and you will go through a great deal of it
    treating two cats.  You can also try using Veltrim ointment.  But, the
    best way to deal with it is to bathe the cats in Nolvasan shampoo and
    then dip them with Lym dip.  Lym is a brand name for a lyme/sulphur dip
    that you mix with water and then carefully pour over the cats.  You
    will have to apply it carefully with a cloth to their faces if that is
    where they have lesions.  Cats can be dipped once very 7 days.  
    
    There is an oral medication that is sometimes prescribed for ringworm,
    it is called Fulvicin.  It is generally not prescribed for purebred
    cats since it can cause liver damage.
    
    I sympathize with your problems.  The last thing that someone wants to
    do when they buy a new kitten is deal with these types of problems.  If
    I can be of assistance to you please send me mail.
    
    Jo

           
    Hi Jo,
    
    Yes I have mentioned her diarrhea to my vet and she recommended the
    kaopectate.  When I suggested yogurt she said the kao. should be
    enough.  The vet did seem a bit concerned that she hasn't improved. 
    She's mentioned a disease (name escapes me) that has symptons like
    she's having but hasn't had her tested.  She feels she can wait to see
    how she does with the ringworm and her cold.  I'll be going back next
    Friday.
    
    Cleo was on antibiotics and I was told she would probably have diarrhea
    but that's been at least 2 weeks and still no change.  
    
    Thanks for the info. about the ringworm.  My vet also felt that Cleo's
    cold could have stressed her out enough to get the ringworm.  She's
    holding off on the Fulvicin because Cleo is still a kitten.  The vet
    has only prescribed the Conofite, once a day.
    
    So now I'm getting worried.  I don't know what to give her.  I think I
    will ignore what the vet said and give Cleo a couple of teaspoons of
    yogurt a day, too much? too little?  Do you think I should give her the
    pumpkin pie filling too?
    
    Even though Cleo's been sick she still plays to her heart's content.  I
    guess that's why I haven't been so worried, she always seems to be a
    happy kitty.  But the diarrhea seems to be going on for too long.
    
    Thanks again,
    Rania
    

    
    Want to mention that she's been eating very well, no loss of appetite. 
    When I first brought her home I was feeding them Iams and about a week
    later I switched to Science Diet (what the breeder used).  I know a
    change of diet can cause diarrhea but her's seems to have been going on
    for much too long.
    
    And do you think the cottage cheese would be better, provide faster
    results?
    
    ...Rania
    

    
>    So now I'm getting worried.  I don't know what to give her.  I think I
>    will ignore what the vet said and give Cleo a couple of teaspoons of
>    yogurt a day, too much? too little?  Do you think I should give her the
>    pumpkin pie filling too?
    
Rania,

it is not a universal truth that cats will do better with yoghurt...in fact,
it can worsen the problems you are having.  Your vet is the best advisor
for this.  I know that none of my cats tolerate yoghurt.  They get diarrhea
from it.

				D

    

    
    Thanks for the word of warning.  I just don't know what else to do. 
    
    About the kaopectate...won't this just cover up the problem?  It's not
    actually fixing what might be wrong with her system, or is it?  Whereas
    the yogurt sounds like it's doing something.  Does my question make any
    sense?  
    
    Cleo detests the kaopectate and I have to be careful not to mix too
    much in with her food.  I was going to give her her dose via a dropper
    but the vet warned me to be careful that she dosen't aspirate the
    stuff, bringing it into her lungs.  So now I'm afraid to give her it
    via the dropper even though she gets more of it that way.  I've done it
    a few times and she struggles but at least gets a good dose of kao. 
    Am I being too cautious?
    
    Is there anything that will mask the taste of the kaopectate?  
    
    Many thanks,
    Rania
    

    I would not make too many changes in her diet at once.  Has a stool
    sample been checked for parasites and worms?  If so, and none were
    found, then you are back to square one.
    
    Colitis can cause diarrhea too.  Sometimes cats that are under a lot of
    stress can get colitis.  The treatment that I know of involved trying
    to relieve the stress, and treating with an oral medication.
    
    I have given yogurt to my own cats with no problems whatsoever.  If you
    are concerned about adding yogurt to the diet, call the vet and talk it
    over with him.  I normally add just a teaspoonful of plain yogurt to
    their food, or offer it to them in a separate dish.  My cats love it. 
    You can also mix a small amount of cottage cheese into their canned
    food (two spoonfuls) if you wish to try that, but don't do both at the
    same time.  Otherwise you won't be able to tell which thing helped.
    Are you feeding her any canned food at all or just the Science Diet?  
    
    When did the diarrhea first begin?  Was it the day you brought her
    home?  After switching her from Science Diet (what she had at the
    breeders) to Iams?  After she began the antibiotics?  After you
    switched her back to Science Diet?  After you began applying Conofite?
    You have to sort of play detective with these things.  You need to
    figure out if the diarrhea is the symptom of a disease, or if it is the
    result of some change in diet or environment that has occured since you
    got her.
    
    Also, when you see the vet again, ask him about the Lym dip and Veltrim
    ointment.  Out here, Conofite runs about $14.00 a tube and the Veltrim
    is only $9.00.  A bottle of Lym dip will last you for several dippings
    and it only costs about $12 at the vet (less at cat shows).  I would
    suggest doing the dippings every 7 days, then applying the ointment
    three times a day in between dippings.  
    
    Jo

    I'm a little confused:  how long has the diarrhea been going on?
    And, is she still on antibiotics or other medication?
    

    
    Let me try to clear things up....
    
    The stool problem has been going on since I got her, Feb. 8.  At first
    the stools were just loose, they have never been firm.  Somedays they
    are loose, other days runny.  
    
    Several stool samples have been taken and all checked out fine.
    
    About 1 week after she came home, I changed her to Science Diet from
    Iams.  The breeder was feeding SD, so she did a SD, IAMs, SD switch in
    one weeks time.
    
    About 2 weeks after I brought her home, she was put on amoxy. for about
    5-7 days.  
    
    She's no longer on any medication for her cold but I'm applying
    Conofite to her lesions for ringworm.
    
    I'll be calling my vet tonight to discuss this and the other
    recommendations given for her ringworm treatment.
    
    Thank you all for replying,   
    Rania
    
    
    FYI, my vet has the Conofite for $9 and it lasts a couple of weeks

    Good deal on the Conofite! 
    
    So, the diarrhea has been going on since you got her.  It doesn't sound
    like it is the result of the medication, but it may be the result of a
    lot of changes in her life.  Does she get on well with your other cat?
    
    Be sure to press the point with your vet about the diarrhea when you
    see him.  Also, it is true that whenever you give a cat oral liquid
    medication there is a risk they can aspirate it into their lungs, but,
    if you are careful, you will be able to get the proper amount of meds
    in her without causing her harm.  The trick is to dispense the meds
    very slowly, allowing her time to swallow.  If you were to quickly
    squirt the whole syringe full of Kao into her mouth she might inhale it
    by accident.  That would be bad.  Just work slowly and carefully.  If
    she isn't getting the full dose of Kao in her food, then it won't help
    her.
    
    There is also a medication called Biosol that is an intestinal
    antiobiotic (neomycin sulfate).  It works very well on diarrhea.  Ask
    your vet about giving her this.
    
    It could just be that she is sensitive.  Several other Feliners have
    cats that will get diarrhea from any changes in their lives.  Too bad
    Marlene isn't around today, she could share with you some stories about
    her Bailey, who has "irritable bowel syndrome" and gets diarrhea if she
    feeds him anything but Science Diet W/D.
    
    Hang in there.  At least you can go to your vet now with some facts
    about when this started, and what hasn't worked. :')  He will see you
    are serious about getting to the bottom of this, so to speak. :')
    
    Jo

    Re: the pumpkin
    
    I think you do NOT mean pumpkin pie filling but just canned pumpkin w/o
    the spices in the pie filling kind, don't you.  I wouldn't think that
    giving a cat/kitten that is already having problems some pumpkin
    w/spices is a good idea.  Just a thought.

    Well I spoke with the vet last night.  When I take her in next week
    she's going to draw blood for an FIP test.  For now, I'm going to
    continue with the kaopectate and start feeding her chicken and rice,
    maybe (hopefully) its just a food allergy.
    
    Someone asked about her getting along with my other cat.  The first day
    they met was stressful but that was about it.  They play, sleep and
    groom each other.
    
    I've also decided to give her the kaopectate directly so that she gets
    a full dose.  She dosen't like me much but I can deal with that.
    
    I'll also be dropping off a stool sample tonight.
    
    Thanks for all the advice/info.  
    Rania
    
    

    
    Rania, I am glad that you spoke with the vet.  At this point starting 
    the chicken and rice sounds like it is the best way to go.  As far
    as the ringworm goes you could probably drive yourself crazy as to
    where it came from.  The dips that Jo mentioned are great for making
    sure that the fungus doesn't spread to other areas of the body but it 
    doesn't do a whole lot for the eye area.  I have used Conofite and 
    Veltrim and although the consistency of Veltrim is easier to work with 
    I prefer the Conofite.  It may be a little pricier but it is thicker and 
    you don't seem to use as much.  Whatever you use be diligent about
    applying it so the fugus does not spread up into the eye.  This could
    cause infections, scarring and puts the eye itself in jeopardy. The 
    incubation period for ringworm is about 30 days.  Some people are
    immune to it while others may contract it and some people who contract
    it build a an immunity in their system and may not get it again. 
    That's also true for the cats themselves.  Jo had mentioned fulvicin
    in her note.  There is no scientific eveidence that cats who are
    treated with fulvicin recover any faster than those on topicals or in
    some cases those who are left untreated and let the disease run it's
    course.  Fulvicin is an extremely toxic drug and can cause extensive
    liver damage.  It will be taken out of the Veterinarian Drug Reference
    Guide in it's next publication.  Micatin anti-fungal cream (used for
    atheletes foot) is an inexpensive and effect way to treat lesions
    on your body if you do contract it.  Fungus is a frustrating thing 
    to deal with and it just takes time.   
    
    

    Rania,
    
    This is a thought. If the plain yogurt isn't appealing to your cat, how
    about acidophilus capsules. This is the "active" ingredient in yogurt
    AND is found normally in the intestines, mouth, etc. It also keeps
    candida albicans (sp?)/yeast in check. Acidophilus can be bought in any
    health food store (sometimes in the health food section of a regular
    supermarket). The capsule can be pulled apart and the contents mixed in
    with the food or pumpkin or whatever and given to the patient. One
    capsule/day should be enough. For humans they recommend 2-8/day. Run
    this by your vet though.
    
    Switching her diet to the chicken & rice also sounds like a good move.
    
    Roslyn 

    Oh I forgot to add that anitbiotics will kill off the acidophilus,
    that's why people tend to get yeast infections, diarrhea, etc. when on
    them. My doctor told me about this years ago so whenever I've had to
    take antibiotics, I take acidophilus as well.
    
    Roslyn

    I suggested pumpkin but for the time being my vet dosen't want to make
    too many changes to her diet at once, (makes sense).  For starters she
    recommended the chicken & rice and if that works we'll add the Science
    Diet, Friskies, 9 Lives. 
    
    I know she'll be excited when she finds out she'll be eating chicken
    tonight.  Whenever we feed her scraps she reminds me of a shark during
    a feeding frenzy.                                      
    
    ...Rania  

    For awhile VG was on chicken and rice.  How I made it was boil the
    chicken then make the rice separate...and threw it all in the blender
    with some home made chicken broth...and presto...all cats loved it!
    
    Of course...while I did this we ate Pizza because I refused to cook
    for both the cats and the hubby!  And you know who won!!
                                                            
    Sandy

    
    I'm happy to report that Cleo's stools are looking better.  I followed
    her into the bathroom all weekend.  Now I'm not sure if its from the
    chicken/rice or the fact that I'm feeding her the kaopectate directly. 
    I'm just glad that they're starting to look normal.
    
    About the ringworm.  I never asked the vet how I'll know that the
    ringworm is gone, I was told it takes about 6 weeks.  Will the first
    indication be that the fur starts growing back?  
    
    ...Rania
        

    
    You'll be able to see the difference in the lesions as they are healing
    and the hair will start to grow back.  Continue checking the entire cat
    because many times the existing lesions will be healing and other "new"
    lesions will pop up somewhere else.  The time it takes depends upon
    alot of variables.  How severe is the case, after the outbreak how
    quickly was treatment given and how sensitive is the cat's system to
    the fungus?  Six weeks seems a bit aggressive but every case is
    different.
    
     

    Re: drawing blood for an FIP test
    
    Rania, I would like to make a suggestion about the FIP test.  If the
    vet you are seeing wants to check for FIP, I would not bother with the
    standard FIP *titer* test, but instead go for a full blood panel and
    check the white blood cell count and the total protein level.  If the
    white blood cell count and the total protein are both elevated, then
    the chances are good that the cat has been exposed and is trying to
    fight off FIP.  If the white count and total protein are normal, then
    the cat is not being threatened with FIP.
    
    The titer test just checks for corona virus.  FIP is a corona virus,
    but there are many other corona viruses that are not fatal.  So, if you
    get a positive titer test, there is no way to know if the corona virus
    your cat has been exposed to was the FIP virus, or some other innocuous
    corona virus.  For this reason, the titer test is a waste of your
    money, IMHO.
    
    A full blood panel will also show you if your cat might be anemic, if
    the kidney and liver function is normal, and a host of other things. 
    The titer test only checks for corona virus.  The blood panel is
    slightly more expensive than the titer test, but it is worth every
    penny.
    
    Good luck
    
    Jo

    Jo, that is an EXCELLENT suggestion, doing the full blood panel.  I'll
    be sure to ask for this instead of the titer test.
    
    I can't wait to talk with the vet tonight and see what we should do
    next.  Her stools are loose but at least she dosen't have diarrhea. 
    Now to wait out the ringworm on both of them.
    
    This should probably go in another note but since it's about Cleo....
    
    For awhile Cleo would meow when she went into the bathroom to use the
    litterbox.  She wouldn't meow when she was actually going.  It's as if
    she was announcing... "I'm going into the bathroom now".  Well, Cleo's
    stopped meowing when she goes into the bathroom so I don't know when
    she's doing her thing.  But the funny thing is she dosen't fully cover
    her stools, its as if she knows I'm going to go look at them.  Although
    deep down I know she's just lazy, she knows Spike will take care of
    that for her.  
    
    Thank you noters for taking the time to share your knowledge,
    suggestions and hope.  
    
    ...Rania

    Rania,
    
    I want to comment on the loose stools.  It might have something to do
    with the antibiotics, or her diet, or a combination of both (or maybe
    just because she is still a small kitten and it takes some time for
    them for their digestive tracts to develop).
    
    When I first brought Kelsey in (Ragdoll) at three months old, he always
    had loose stools; not diarrhea, just loose, mucousy bowels.  We took
    many stool samples to the vet to be checked for worms, and spun down
    for more difficult to diagnose parasites like coccidia and giardia. 
    Nothing was found.  He was put on Tribrrisan, an antibiotic that works
    well on the digestive tract but he couldn't stay on it for long cause
    he kept foaming at the mouth every time I gave it to him (hence the
    nickname Foamy.... at home he is never referred to as Kelsey.)  He
    eventually outgrew the problem.
    
    Anyway, I think the loose stools might just be a symptom of everything
    going on and not necessarily a real cause for concern (if it were
    watery diarrhea I would say pursue this with a vengence).
    
    I think you have been given some excellent advice by Jo and Marlene and
    the full blood panel should definitely be done.  Everything I have read
    about titer tests says they are a waste of money and do not tell you if
    the kitten has been exposed to FIP.
    
    Best of luck and keep on plugging.  You'll get through this in no time.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Beware of covering for them...when we had such a hard time with
    Roundworms we had two weeks of observing stools.  Well the kids
    would go to cover and Daddy would kind of push them out of the 
    way.  Well...now I have many cats who don't even bother covering
    they just figure Daddy will do it!!   
    
    Good luck with Cleo...and please keep us posted.
    
    Sandy

    I second, (third?) the motion of a full blood panel over just an FIP
    titer test. My old vet told me exactly what Jo said. It could show
    positive, and not be the dreaded FIP! I decided to wait for symptoms at
    her recommendation. No sysmptoms in over a year, thank God!
    
    Y

    
    What would some symptoms be of an FIP cat?   Diarrhea is probably one
    of them.  Under-eating - over-eating?  Lethargic - playful? 
    
    I spoke with the vet last night and I'm going to keep her on the
    chicken and rice for another week.  I'll also be doing the full blood
    panel test Friday (Cleo's going to have to fast for 12 hours).
    
    ...Rania

    Rania,
    
    Persistent fever, vomiting, and lethargy are also signs, as is jaundice. 
    Sometimes you can see the yellowing in the whites of the eyes.
    There are two forms of FIP, wet and dry.  Dry is a bit more difficult
    to diagnose.  With wet, fluid accumulates in the abdomen, giving the
    appearance of a pot belly.  The belly usually looks very swollen. 
    Cultured fluid will usually be tacky (sticky) and straw colored,
    indicating FIP is present.  Most cases of FIP are only confirmed upon
    necropsy (autopsy).
    
    Rania, try not to worry.  I know that is easier said than done.  FIP is
    not an endemic disease amongst cats.  It seems to be one of those
    "survival of the fittest" diseases; that is, the smaller kittens with
    the least amount of immunity will develop it, or the older,
    geriatric cats.
    
    I will venture to bet that what you are seeing are probably just
    symptoms of her body's reaction to the stress of the ringworm, the new
    environment (your home), and Spike.
    
    But I know how you feel nonetheless... it doesn't take long to get
    attached!!  Like many, two seconds or less :^)
    
    Keep us posted!!
    
    -Roberta
     
    

    FIP can also get into the lungs.  We had a blue-point Siamese (Charlie)
    who had it in the lungs.  It was pathetic to watch this gorgeous cat
    get sick and not be able to breathe.  What Roberta said about the fluid
    is true, it is stricky, stringy and straw-colored.  This happened about
    16 years ago.  It wasn't a pleasant thing to go through.  We all loved
    Charlie a great deal.
    
    Karen

    
    Thanks for all the information.  I'm a bit unclear about the fluid. 
    Is this something the cat throws up or is drawn from the cat?
    
    She dosen't like the rice but devours the chicken.  Is there a certain
    rice that cats like or is it trial and error for every cat?  I believe
    I used Carolina.  Also, does it matter whether it is white or dark
    meat?
    
    Just one more day and I'll be closer to some answers.  I can hardly
    wait.  At least her ringworm lesions are looking much better.
            
    ...Rania
    

    The fluid accumulates in the pleural cavity (surrounding the lung), and
    results in labored breathing.  Or in the abdomen in which the
    pot-bellied appearance would be noticeable.  Or both (I think).  The
    fluid is drawn with a needle, then analyzed.
    
    Some cats just don't like rice, period!  I have had to go the boiled
    hamburger and rice route in the past for cats with diarrhea, and many
    just picked out the beef and left the rice in the dish!
    
    I wouldn't think the color of the meat would make any difference as far
    as the chicken is concerned, but you can run it by your vet for his (or
    her) opinion.
    
    Glad to hear the ringworm lesions are clearing!  That's a great sign!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    My cats do eat the rice (Minute Rice) because I just blend it
    together with the chicken to make mush.  Adding a bit of home-made
    chicken broth helps too!!!!
    
    Sandy

    
    > The fluid is drawn with a needle, then analyzed.
    
    Since I'm going to have the full blood test done drawing fluid wouldn't
    be necessary or would it?
    
    ...Rania

    They would only draw fluid off the abdommen or plueral cavity if the
    vet noticed that fluid had accumulated there.  Most likely this isn't
    the case with your cat.
    
    Jo

    You might try making the rice with chicken broth instead of
    water.
    

    
    I unfortunately don't have good news.  I found out yesterday that
    Cleo's FIP titer was high (highest on the scale) and she also had a
    high white count.
    
    At this point, chances are very high that she has FIP.  I will bring
    her in tomorrow for an x-ray, to see if there's any fluid in her lungs
    since shes been couging a lot.  Other than her cough and loose stools
    she hasn't shown any more symptoms.  It's possible she may just have
    the Coronavirus but only time will tell.
    
    I brought Spike in today to have him checked.  I pray that he comes out
    OK.  I feel so terrible that he has to go through this. 
         
    They've been separated since Friday.  Both are quite upset, especially
    Cleo.  She's meows non-stop and sleeps by his door. I think I will have
    my boyfriend take Spike for awhile regardless of his test results.  I
    hate to have him locked up in my bedroom/bathroom.
                                              
    I don't think there's much else to do but wait.
    
    ...Rania

    Rania,
    
    I'm very sorry to hear this.  FIP titers only tell you that she was
    exposed to a coronavirus, not necessarily the FIP corona virus.  A high
    white count is indicative of infection.  Were her serum protein levels
    elevated as well??
    
    A high white count is going to elevate that titer reading since her
    immune system is trying to fight the virus.
    
    I am by no means a vet and don't have all the answers; however, these
    are some of the things I have learned and read about FIP.  I have known
    people who have had cats tested for FIP via the titer test and worked
    themselves into panic mode when the results came back high.... and the
    cats *never* developed FIP!  This is why I asked about her protein
    levels.
    
    I really hope Cleo does a 360 and is better soon!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    I have my fingers crossed for all of you.  Please let us know what's
    going on.
    
    Karen
    

    Thank you VERY much for your good thoughts.  I did most of my crying
    yesterday so now I feel a bit more in control.  I've got to be more
    positive!
    
    Although chances are great she does have FIP it is possible that it is
    only the Coronavirus and she will get over it.  As mentioned, FIP titer
    test is not accurate but serves as a diagnosis tool.  A high titer test
    with symptoms of FIP is a better indicator.  So for now, she's active
    and eating, if she could just get firmer stools I'd be ecstatic.
            
    I will keep updating as things progress.
    
    ...Rania

    
    The results from her chest x-ray look good, no fluid.  I won't speak
    with the vet until this evening but she's going to be giving me some
    antibiotics for her upper respiratory.  How reliable is an x-ray in
    detecting fluid?  (She shows no physical signs of fluid accumulation)
    
    Is it common for cats with upper res. to have coughing fits?  Her
    stools are improving, loose but not runny.  Oh, and so is her ringworm. 
    The area is pink but she's starting to grow back some fur.
    
    ...Rania

    Fluid is easily detectable on an xray.  Also, if Cleo had excessive
    fluid in her lungs you would be able to see her breathing becoming
    labored as a result.  Same thing with fluid in the abdomen.  She would
    look like she has a pot belly.  Since you aren't seeing any phsyical
    signs I would be quite pleased with this news!!
    
    About the coughing:  I have had cats with upper respiratory infection
    that cough like they are trying to hack up a hairball, but nothing
    comes up.  Is this the type of cough you mean?
    

    
    Spike's results are back - high FIP titer.  At least I won't have to
    make a decision on who to keep.  I just hope they are lucky enough to
    live a long, happy life with high titers.
    
    ...Rania
    
    (I can already hear the breeder denying the possibility that her cattery
    has FIP.)
    
    

    Gosh, you must be furious as well as worried.  Here are good thoughts
    for long and happy lives for both of them.
                          

    What was their blood protein levels?? This is the important question. 
    You may be getting yourself all worked up over high titers for nothing.
    Were both the white count and the blood protein elevated???
    
    Have you notified the breeder?
    
    Jo

    Rania sent me mail offline with the blood info and the blood panel
    shows no abnormality that would typically be associated with FIP. :')
    I think that the cats are just stressed from the ringworm and the
    diarrhea.  I do not think that FIP is a concern here.  This looks like
    a case of the FIP titer scaring the you-know-what out of someone, but
    not really telling them anything.
    
    I have reviewed hundreds of blood panels over the years and the results
    she had on hers wouldn't worry me at all.
    
    Jo

    Thanks for posting that, Jo.  I had a feeling FIP wasn't a concern
    here, and that the stress on the immune system from the URI and
    ringworm was driving the high titer.
    
    Here's to a speedy recovery for Cleo and Spike!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    I spoke with Jo a couple of times last week and she made me feel a lot
    better. If my kitties do have FIP they aren't showing many of the
    symptoms.  After this weekend I feel even better since Cleo had a firm
    stool.  I just wish Spike's ringworm would clear up.  I really don't
    want to put him on the Fulvicin but it's still spreading.  He's feeling
    miserable having to wear the collar.

    I also spoke with the breeder this weekend.  As expected she denies her
    cattery has ringworm or FIP.  Although it seems that Cleo brought these
    problems with her (she was alsways the first to exhibit signs) I know
    there is no way to prove this.  I only wish the breeder was more open
    to the possibility.  Instead of being concerned she was defensive.  But
    then I keep thinking that maybe I am the only one to have had problems
    so it really would seem to be a problem with me rather than her
    cattery.

    She offered to buy back Cleo (she gave me a 24 hour deadline).  But who
    would give back a kitten they've fallen in love with?????

    Well I suppose I've learned a lesson from this.  I can't stress enough
    having a full blood panel done prior to purchase and quarantining new
    cats when brought home.

    I will be sure to update this note if anything new happens.

    Thank you for your support and good wishes, especially last week.

    ...Rania

            

    Rania,
    
    We all live and learn from our experiences.  Don't admonish yourself
    for this.  Usually, when a person spends a few hundred dollars for a
    purebred kitten, they expect the kitten to be in perfect health.  They
    don't prepare themselves for possible problems like this.  And,
    isolating cats from each other is difficult for most folks to handle. 
    It is for me.  I don't like keeping a cat in isolation unless it is
    showing severe signs of illness.  When they are healthy and happy and
    just want to play and be with their people and the other cats, I don't
    have the heart to lock them up, even if it is for the sake of good will
    of all concerned.
    
    It was good of the breeder to offer to buy back Cleo.  My feeling is
    you have come this far, and you will get through this okay.  I am sure
    Jo is correct in saying that neither she nor Spike will develop FIP. 
    I know this is all going to work in your favor!!
    
    Smile!!
    
    -Roberta
    

although the breeder may have been defensive about the news, I'm sure that
upon further reflection, she will be checking her cats for problems...so,
you see, you have done some good.  It is just very hard for someone to take
news like that and it takes a very mature person to be graceful and grateful
for the news...especially when the news can cost $$ and a great deal of time.

I know that Jo knows her stuff, so I'm sure your baby and Spike are ok...

				D

    Hi Rania,
    
         Just wanted to confirm Jo's (and others') notes re. the high FIP
    titers.
    
         Three years ago, Bigfoot was continuously sick.  He went through
    blood panels and they found a high FIP titer.  We immediately tested
    Loki and Fluffy; Loki came back high and Fluffy was negative.  For a
    year, Bigfoot and Loki returned to the vet every month or so, and for a
    year the titers either got worse or remained the same.  We were so
    afraid of having "time-bomb" kitties and worried constantly about their
    healths.  Every little cough or throw-up sent us into a state of panic.
    
         Two years ago, it was found that Bigfoot had a cyst on his
    pancreas.  They removed it (along with his spleen and part of his
    pancreas) and he has been perfect since then.  No FIP symptoms.  No
    illness.
    
         Loki is fine too, except for having become diabetic.
    
         Fluffy has since died of an unrelated illness (and he was
    *negative*!).
    
         We feel that the tests are useless, and even our vet (at Tufts)
    who was doing the FIP testing finally said that they were useless too. 
    Her own cat is FIP positive, but no problems so far.  There is a
    distinct possiblity that Midnight is FIP positive too, if Loki and
    Bigfoot are shedding either the FIP or a related virus, but we aren't
    worried about that any more.  The way we see it, after three years, if
    they aren't showing symptoms then they've probably only been exposed,
    or harbor another (less fatal) coronavirus.
    
         The only "time-bomb" we worry about now is that Bigfoot may become
    diabetic because of his surgery.  He is a real fighter, does *not* like
    medication and won't be nearly as passive as Loki with his twice daily
    insulin shots.
    
         Just wanted to let you know of another FIP-positive household -
    whose members are healthy and happy!  Try not to worry - it'll be okay!
    
    					- Andrea

    Also there was a very good article on FIP in one of the recent
    Cat Fancy Magazines...and it also warned about the titer testing
    giving results that were not necessary true.
    
    If you would like a copy of this article...I'd be more then
    happy to copy it for you.
    
    Sandy

    Hello again,
    
    Both kitties are doing fine but I'm having a tough time trying to get
    Cleo back on kitty food.  She's finally given in to eating wet but
    she'd rather starve than eat dry.  The vet wants me to keep her on
    higher quality kitten food so I'm giving her Science Diet Kitten
    Formula for wet.
    
    As for the dry, we've tried Science Diet, Iams and last night Max
    Cat - all of which are the kitten formula.
    
    So any idea?  I thought for sure the MC would do it because of what I
    read in here.  I even tried mixing in some wet with the dry.  She's
    VERY stubborn.  I wasn't feeding her that much wet thinking she'd get
    hungry and eat the dry but that went on for a week.  I finally decided
    to give in and she primarily eats wet, she'll eat a piece or two of
    dry.  
    
    I really want to get her on a dry food but don't want to starve her
    doing so.  Do you think she'll eventually start eating the dry again? 
    I'm going to try mixing in some chicken with the dry and see how that
    goes.  Knowing her she'll just try to bury it.
     
    ...Rania

    Try warming the dry up in a microwave for a few seconds.  This
    brings out the oils and smells.  this is how I switched my cats
    from Science Diet to Science Diet lite!!
    
    Try it...
    
    Sandy

    You have to be patient, and rest assured that she won't starve herself
    to death on purpose. :')
    
    Jo

    Quick, can anyone remind me what colors Tonkinese come in?  If I 
    can't find an apple-head type Siamese for a friend of mine, it was
    suggested that a Tonkinese might be a suitable substitute.  I'd
    like to go in armed with color information but I'm drawing a 
    complete blank on their colors and my cat books are all at home
    right now.
    
    Jan

    The one I saw recently looked like a lilac-point siamese.  I think they
    also come in seal-point.
    
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    Are we carrying on two conversationsn here, one in notes and one in
    mail?
    
    For some reason colors like sable, platinum, and champagne come to 
    mind.  I have absolutely no idea why.  Am I making these up?  Well,
    I've resolved to stop at the house and pick up my borrowed copy of
    the Cornell Book of Cats on my way to see my friend so I don't come
    off sounding like a total idiot on this subject.  I talked to her
    a few minutes ago and she is willing to check out the Tonkinese 
    breed.
    
    Jan

    Seal Point is a definite - I hear they're wonderful - I almost got one
    before I found Geno.
    
    Giudi

    The Tonkinese colors are Natural Mink (medium brown body with dark brown
    points), Champagne Mink (buff cream body with medium brown points),
    Blue Mink (soft blue-gray body with slate blue points), or Platinum
    Mink (pale silvery gray body with pewter colored points).  I have also
    heard that there is a color called Honey Mink, but I haven't seen one. 
    I am not sure that CFA recognizes it.
    
    The Tonkinese was developed by crossing Siamese with Burmese. 
    
    Jo

    The description of the one I saw was Champagne with <whatever> points. 
    I remember more now that you bring it up.  It did look very much like a
    siamese; although, with a thicker body and head (not so skinny and
    pointy as a siamese).
    
    Michelle

    Okay, I feel better now.  I wasn't so far off with the Champagne and
    Platinum colors I mentioned.  Just not completely correct.
    
    Jan

    For anyone looking for information about the "traditional" or
    "apple-headed" siamese, check out note 4245 in Feline_V1.
    
    Jo

Heard you guys were asking about Tonk colors.  I breed them.

Tonks come in four colors.  Each color comes in three variants.  Tonk 
breeders call the four colors Natural, Champagne, Blue and Platinum.  The
three variants are Solid, Pointed and Mink. 

There are other names for these colors in other breeds.  For example, a 
Siamese breeder would refer to these same four colors as Seal, Chocolate, 
Blue and Lilac.  A Burmese breeder would call these same four colors Sable,
Champagne, Blue and Platinum. 

The Honey color is controversial.  Every "Honey" I've seen has been a light 
version of Champagne (but within Champagne's normal range).  Old records
refer to a "brick-red" color that I'll bet was lost over the years, and (in
my opinion) not likely to be recovered by any presently legal breeding. 
The Honey color has been removed from the standard in some associations.

Mink is kind of a strange term to be using for color.  Mink originally 
refered to the Tonk's coat texture (it really does feel like a mink coat),
but now it's also used to refer to the show colors.  Of the three
variations, only Mink can be shown (in most associations).  Solids and
Pointeds are referred to as AOV's (Any Other Variety).  The Solid colors
look just like Burmese, and the Pointed colors look just like Siamese (and
in fact are genetically identical).  Minks are pointed like Siamese, but
have less contrast between the points and the body.  Solids have little or
no contrast between the points and the body.

The body type of a Tonk is intermediate between today's Siamese and 
Burmese.  A pointed Tonk is very similar to an old-fashioned apple-headed
Siamese in both color and body type.

Ray

    I have a cat, Zeno, and I'm not sure exactly what is his.  I call him a
    siamese (apple head variety) but in a big picture book of cats that I
    have,he looks exactly like the tonkenese. He is seal-point, but his body is mostly
    dk.brown(on his back) so there is very little difference between that and
    his points.  His belly is lighter brown, with patches of the darker
    brown.  His points are almost black (we call him little black-face).
    My vet is clueless regarding the subtle differences.  Maybe you guys
    can help out!!
    
    
    shannon

    I can't remember if I wrote an update on my two kittens.  So....
    
    Both of them are doing very well.  I went through another ringworm
    incident with Cleo and decided to put her on Fulvicin too, (I had Spike
    on Fulvicin about a month before her).  I decided to do this after she
    kept scratching her ears, neck and chin to the point of bleeding.  I
    brought her in for weekly CBC's and each week her WBC kept coming down. 
    She's been off of it for a couple of weeks now and is looking great.  I
    also had a full blood panel down and everything looks normal.  
                       
    The only problem I have with her now is a possible food allergy.  For
    the past few months she's been on Feline DD, a wet food.  I'm going to
    see what happens with a dry food by Purina, Pro Plan, it's primarily
    made of chicken.  It's a bit of a headache having 2 cats with different
    diets but at least it's nothing serious.  I just have to separate them
    when I go to work.  
    
    Well I just wanted to let people know that things are fine with my two
    monsta's.  And another thanks to all the noters who helped me through
    the FIP and ringworm.
    
    ...Rania