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Conference misery::feline

Title:Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected
Notice:purrrrr...
Moderator:JULIET::CORDES_JA
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1079
Total number of notes:28858

754.0. "Lady Di/fatal disease - FIP" by MKOTS1::CASE () Fri Apr 29 1994 15:21

    I'm writing this because it looks like Lady Di will not be with me much
    longer.  She has been diagnosed with FIP - in its advanced stages. 
    Some of you may remember when I first got my tonkinese last November -
    less than 48 hrs. after Rick brought her home, she was in the animal
    hospital for 5 days with an infection/virus, which the vet thought was
    a URI.  For the next 3 months, Diana was on various meds, including
    prednisone to try to clear up her severe coughing spells.  They seemed
    to stop about a month ago....last Sunday afternoon, we noticed that
    Di's right eye appeared to be changing color (from aqua blue to green)
    and by evening was very cloudy, and the 3rd eyelid was up halfway.  By
    Monday morning, it looked like she had broken blood vessels, etc., so
    Rick took her to the vet.  The prognosis was not good.  The vet
    examined her thoroughly for 40 minutes, and explained the FIP virus to
    Rick, taking a blood sample.  She was pretty certain that Diana was
    exhibiting manifestations of the disease.
    
    The bloodwork came back yesterday, confirming that she has FIP (in its
    dry form) and it is affecting her eyes and kidney right now.  Rick said
    that he and the vet were sort of prepared for this diagnosis on Monday;
    in fact, he said the vet got quite teary-eyed when she examined Lady
    Di; after all, she has become a little darling at the animal clinic
    these last 5 months, she's been so sickly.  Bottom line is that this
    disease is fatal; I did read all of the notes in the notesfile last
    night on FIP, and was not encouraged.  The vet feels that Diana has had
    this for some time, but because it manifests itself in so many
    different ways, was not able to diagnose it until this week.  She feels
    that Diana may not last longer than 6-8 weeks (I find this so hard to
    believe; except for her right eye, she's still my frisky little kitten,
    racing me across the kitchen floor each morning and evening...) 
    
    I need to make the decision to put her down - but I don't want to do
    this while she still appears to be so healthy.  I think it would be
    easier for me to decide if she appeared to be suffering or in pain. 
    The symptoms can be treated, but not the disease.  I don't want to be
    selfish and hang onto Di for my sake.....please talk to me, I'd really
    appreciate any advice.  Last night I lay on the sofa and cried for one
    hour - Diana lay on my chest and kept patting me on my cheeks so
    gently, as if to comfort me and say she understands what I need to do. 
    Should I hang on and try to treat her with Interferon for a while?  If
    the vet told me I could have her for one more year, I'd do it.  Diana
    just turned 8 months old.  I am so bummed.....
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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754.1so sorry...VLNVAX::PGLADDINGNoters do it with a 8-)Fri Apr 29 1994 15:3323
    I'm so sorry to hear about your poor baby being sick.  My heart goes
    out to you.  ;-(
    
    It really is a very difficult decision to know when the time has
    come to let go...  I think you should rely on your vet's advice
    on when Diane's quality of life is no longer good.  Take cues from
    Diane too - if she's still eating, is lively and doesn't cry out
    like she's in pain, then I believe she's feeling well.  If you do
    start to see these symptoms, then you have to make the difficult
    decision to put her down.  It will probably be the hardest decision
    you'll have to make - but be assured that Diane will be grateful to
    you for being such a wonderful parent who is unselfish enough to
    end her pain.
    
    Be aware too, that FIP is contagious - do you have other kitties?
    If so, please be sure to keep them separated.
    
    I'll be thinking and praying for you and Diane (my kitties too).
    Hang in there - know that you're among friends who are willing
    to listen and comfort in any way that we can (even though we're
    probably all feeling a little helpless right now...)
    
    Pam
754.2JULIET::RUSSELLPE_STFri Apr 29 1994 15:378
    I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes.  I know how hard this is for
    you.  I'd say, that as long as Di seems happy and is playful and
    eating, etc, give her the meds and treasure each moment.  You will know
    when it's time to say goodbye.  Hold on to her for as long as you can.
    
    Kitty prayers for both of you.
    
    Steffi
754.3MAYES::MERRITTKitty CityFri Apr 29 1994 15:5615
    Hugs to you and Lady Di!!  Don't even think about that decision
    yet, you will worry yourself to death and that will take away
    your quality time with her.   Spoil her...enjoy her..love her...
    treasure her...hug her....adore her!!!!
    
    When that day does come...you will know it's time because the
    quality of life for Lady Di will not be there and you will want
    her suffering to stop.   BUt for now try real hard to enjoy each
    day...and lover her dearly!!  
    
    Please know...we're here to listen and comfort you. 
    
    Sandy  
    
    
754.4JULIET::CORDES_JAFour Tigers on my CouchFri Apr 29 1994 17:078
    You'll know when the time is right.  I know that is hard to believe
    but it is true.  I agonized over that decision with Bailey but it
    was very obvious to me when she finally gave up the fight.  Trust
    your judgement and do what you feel is best and know that Lady
    Di will let you know when the fight is over.  Enjoy all the time
    you still have with her.
    
    Jan
754.5Hugs to Lady DiMPGS::NASREDDINEFri Apr 29 1994 17:187
    Great big hugs to you, your family and Lady Di.  My thoughts and
    prayers are with you.  My cat was recently diagnosed with kidney
    problems due to old age and I too am struggling with similar thoughts 
    and feelings.  I hope it helps to know that so many people are pulling
    for Lady Di.  
    
    Michele and Chico 
754.6My heart goes out to youEASI::GEENENVescere bracis meis.Fri Apr 29 1994 18:345
    Having just gone through this same thing recently, I can sympathize and
    understand.  My heart and thoughts are with you and Lady Di.  If I can
    help in any way, you have only to ask.
    
    Carl
754.7No other kitties....MKOTS1::CASESun May 01 1994 20:258
    re:  754.1
    Pam, we do not have any other kitties.  We know it's contagious, and it
    has been suggested that we wait several months before introducing a new
    kitten to the household, to be sure the virus no longer exists.  Rick
    and I are meeting with the vet again later this week, to discuss our
    options.  Thanks for your thoughts.
    
    Eloise
754.8BPSOF::EGYEDPer aspera ad astraMon May 02 1994 03:402
    Some paws crossed in Hungary, too...
    Nat
754.9JUPITR::KAGNOMon May 02 1994 10:1914
    I think everyone else said it best and I echo their advice.  Take your
    cues from Lady Di.  One of the first big signs that a cat is depressed
    and/or not feeling well is it stops eating and hides out in dark places
    within the house, does not want to be held, etc.  For now, love her,
    spoil her, try the Inferon (sp?) as it is a new treatment for FIP and
    might really help her, and keep her comfortable and happy.  I truly
    believe that love and comfort help our animals to hold on for longer
    than we ever thought possible when the worst scenario is thrust upon
    us.
    
    Hugs to you and your family,
    
    -Roberta
    
754.10Hasn't been shown to work.STOWOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryMon May 02 1994 13:347
    I too am very sorry for what you have discovered.  I have read
    somewhere that the interferon does not work.  I think it is still at
    the testing stages and has not made a cat to live.  Discuss this with
    your vet. You don't need to be adding ANY extra stress at this point in
    time.  Enjoy your lady while you can and take your cues from her.  Who
    needs to get poked with a needle if they don't have to?  I am sorry...
    Karen
754.11STOWOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryMon Jun 27 1994 13:3714
    Eloise,
    I was very glad to read that Lady Di is still doing well in another
    note.
      
    What did they treat her with?  Some breeders I have talked to think
    that there is a virus running around that mimicks fip.  I don't
    mean to underplay or give false hope.  The medicine that has worked
    was one of the sulpha drugs flagyl/metronidazole.  It can take some
    time and the animals need a lot of supportive care ie. fluids and
    sometimes force feeding, immodium.  If the cat truly has fip then 
    it will not survive, but that is why so many people are starting 
    to wonder.  Cats are getting better, so maybe it wasn't really fip.
    Who knows, I just hope they come up with a test that is *real*.
    Karen
754.12Di seems better now....MKOTS1::CASETue Jun 28 1994 15:0613
    Karen,
    
    I have an appt. this afternoon for Lady Di to have another blood test.
    The last one she had negated FIP, and the vet asked me to wait a month
    and have another done.  I'll know sometime next week.  Di's behavior
    tells me that she is ok, she does not appear to be ill at all and her
    eye has gone back to normal (opaqueness completely gone).  Her stomach
    does appear a bit distended, but she eats like a little piggy....I hope
    that's all it is.   I think the diagnosis was incorrect, because she
    acts like a perfectly normal 10-month old kitten.  She was not treated
    with any medication......so what do you think?  I am so happy I didn't
    make the decision to put her down!!  Thanks for caring....
    Eloise and Diana
754.13SLICK1::MERRITTKitty CityTue Jun 28 1994 15:527
    I'm real happy to see Lady Di is still hanging in there with no
    signs of the disease...that is great news.  Lets all pray that
    it was diagnosed incorrectly...
    
    Please keep us posted....
    
    Sandy
754.14That's a great answer!STOWOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryWed Jun 29 1994 14:2815
    Diana,
    That is wonderful news!  I am quite baffled by the fact that her
    eye has improved.  Just because I don't understand that part.
    If you are referring to a "titer" test as the fip test, yes you
    can retest every few months.  What you want to see is a reduction
    in the number.  If it remains the same it is unsure, but if it 
    escalates it is bad.  Perhaps her tummy is big to begin with  
    or maybe it still could be a problem.  This is all the worst part\
    of the disease.  They have no test to say positively it is the fipv
    coronavirus.  The titer test, as you may know, only will show that
    a cat has had exposure to A coronavirus.  Of which there are many.
    The other test used is an electrofloresis that checks protein levels.
    Please keep us posted and take heart, you are very lucky she is 
    still with you.
    Karen
754.15Had the name right, just turned around!STOWOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryWed Jun 29 1994 14:302
    OOOpps!!  I meant to write to Eleanor, not Diana 8^)
    Karen
754.16Lady Di is sick again....MKOTS1::CASETue Jul 05 1994 15:4318
    Update:  We took Lady Di for another titer test this a.m.  Last week's
    scheduled test was postponed due to a family emergency the vet had...
    the bad news is that while we were away this weekend sailing, Diana's
    OTHER eye changed color and became opaque....same symptom she had 2.5
    months ago with her right eye.  The vet gave me 2 prescriptions (drops
    and an antibiotic) to give Di for the next 2 weeks and told me she'd
    call with the results of the titer test next week - as the blood gets
    fedexed to Texas, it will be days before it's tested...Rick and I were
    just saying this weekend how fortunate we were that Diana had not 
    manifested any other symptoms of FIP; we were almost beginning to
    believe that it was either a mis-diagnosis or the virus that mimics
    FIP - I guess I'd better prepare myself for bad news.  The vet
    initially said that once FIP is diagnosed, a cat can fail in 4 months
    or less...somewhere in my heart I'm hoping that Lady Di just has this
    weird eye infection every few months, but in my head I realize that's
    probably just wishful thinking.  Keep your fingers (and paws) crossed
    for my baby.....
    Eloise
754.17Curious...STOWOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryTue Jul 12 1994 16:186
    Eloise,
    Why does your vet send his bloodwork to Texas?  I just ask
    because there are two schools (Tufts and Cornell) that are much
    closer that do that type of work.  I will keep my fingers 
    crossed that Lady Di can turn this around too!
    Karen
754.18FIP confirmed in Lady Di last week...MKOTS1::CASEMon Jul 25 1994 23:1313
    Karen,
    I've never really asked her why she uses the lab in Texas, but I 
    will mention Tufts and Cornell to her in the future.  Anyway, while
    I was away on vacation with my Mom last week, the vet called Rick to
    say that the FIP is confirmed....Di definitely has the disease.  I
    only hope that she will defy the odds and be with us for a long time. 
    Her eye has cleared up, the vet said to stop the meds and just keep an
    eye on her.  She is eating and playing just fine....we're just waiting
    and keeping our fingers crossed....I'm going to provide the vet with
    all the info. I found from this notes file - we all know there's still
    so much to learn about FIP.  Thanks for your concern.  As always, I'll
    keep everyone updated on Di's situation.
    Eloise
754.19MAGEE::MERRITTKitty CityTue Jul 26 1994 09:515
    Eloise...just love her, spoil her rotten and cherish each
    and every day.   If and when that day ever comes it will be hard
    but you will know you made Lady Di's life so special!!
    
    Sandy
754.20Well,.....PCBUO1::FALLONMoonsta CatteryThu Jul 28 1994 15:1912
    Eloise,
    I new this before you answered, but I didn't want to say anything just
    yet to upset you.  ONe of the areas discussed at the seminar was the
    eye.  Usually if it is seen in the eye the cat can live longer before
    it reaches or attacks the rest of the body.  You just have a little
    more time, but the end is the same.  I am really sorry.  I thought if
    you had hope for a little while you would feel better.  You ARE lucky
    tho to have been able to have her for the extended time.
    
    Why this is so, I don't know.  Not even sure I have the answer to that
    one in my notes.  Please take care.
    Karen
754.21Lady Di is 1 yr. old/still no FIP symptoms!MKOTS1::CASETue Sep 06 1994 12:347
    Just a note to update folks that Lady Di reached her 1st birthday
    Sunday, 9/4!  Obviously, we're thrilled, because with the FIP we
    expected her to pass on long before now.....she is acting just fine and
    normal, and is a loving purr-ball....we all celebrated this first
    birthday with such thanks that she is still here with us!
    
    Eloise
754.22USCTR1::MERRITT_SKitty CityTue Sep 06 1994 12:414
    Wow...it's been a year, I remember one of your first notes introducing
    Lady Di to us!!!  BIG hugs and kisses to Lady Di on her 1st Birthday!!!
    
    Sandy
754.23Hip Hip Horray and Happy Birthday!AIMHI::SPINGLERTue Sep 06 1994 13:419
    
    So glad to hear good news!
    
    We hope you are fine to, Eloise!  (send me mail if you have time Sue
    Spingler @mko or aimhi::spingler.)
    
    Feline Glad for you and Lady Di!
    
    Sue & Furry Crew
754.24Yippeeee!!PCBUOA::FALLONMoonsta CatteryWed Sep 07 1994 17:105
    Eloise,
    That is really wonderful!!!!  I have never heard of a kitty making it
    so far.  She is really something special :^}
    HAppy Purrday,
    Karen
754.25Lady Di is sick again....MKOTS1::CASEFri Sep 09 1994 11:4213
    Guess I spoke too soon....days after Lady Di's first birthday, her left
    eye became opaque again.  She's been on medication for 3 days, but it
    doesn't seem to be clearing up.  When I left for work this morning, she
    had the eye almost completely shut.  I'm really melancholy today; we're
    on vacation next week, and we're driving to Maine tonight for a few
    days, then going to Mystic Seaport.  I don't really want to be gone
    more than two days at a time, because I'm so afraid Di will get
    stressed and fail even more quickly....so we're going to stop off at
    home for an overnight every few days and give her lots of lovin!  I'll
    let you know how things are going after vacation....thanks for your
    wishes!
    
    Eloise
754.26paws crossedSALEM::SHAWFri Sep 09 1994 11:575
    
    
    Hugs and prayers for Lady Di, 
    
    Shaw
754.27Paws crossed here too...AIMHI::SPINGLERFri Sep 09 1994 15:398
    
    Oh Eloise,
    
    I hope all goes well for you all.
    
    Feline Good Wishes heading your way,
    
    Sue & Crew
754.28Persian Kitten with FIPTNPUBS::DUBIEWed Nov 16 1994 16:5249
    Well, the Persian kitten (note 137.28) my wife and I purchased/adopted from a
    a breeder in Lowell passed away last Sunday, from FIP.
    
    When we first got him, we noticed a maloclusion (sp) in his jaw--his teeth were
    misaligned. Not overly concerned, we brought him to the vet, only
    mentioning the fact that he was having loose stools as well. The
    vet suggested a stricter diet, which we put him on.
    
    As the weeks passed, Pugsley's digestive problem got no better.
    He was leaving little trails, messages of his presence, wherever
    he sat. At no time did he seem in pain or in discomfort.
    
    When the situation got nearly intolerably messy, we brought him
    to the vet. This time, an abdominal X-ray showed a blockage in
    his intestine. Perhaps Pugs had eaten a foreign object he couldn't
    pass. Over a few days at the vet's, on Laxatone, nothing happened
    except Pugsley's erratic stools. The vet suggested that, if no
    improvements occurred by Monday, he'd perform exploratory surgery.
    Our worst fears were cancer, and our least fears were something
    easily removed.
    
    After surgery, the vet reported that the situation was much worse than he'd
    anticipated. It was unusual for a kitten, seven months old, to
    have a tumor, but the vet extracted most of Pugsley's colon due to
    the blockage, then sent it to the lab for a biopsy.
    
    The biopsy revealed no cancer, but dry FIP, which, until now, we'd
    never considered. Pugs' condition worsened over the next week until
    he passed away last Sunday, we hope not in pain. Totally unfair
    for a kitten with an excellent, intelligent, and affectionate
    disposition--we'd have paid twice the amount we did for him.
    (I should mention that Pugs was three months old when we got him.)
    
    The breeder hung up on us when we called to report that at least one
    of her cats (probably Pugs' mother) 
    could have this dreaded ailment. We feel that she is
    responsible for what will be astronomical veterinary bills, as she
    failed to reveal Pugs' jaw misalignment (which had nothing to do with
    his FIP) and failed to maintain an FIP-free business. One shutters
    to think that she's sent other kittens out with the same sickness,
    albeit unknowingly.
    
    It's nearly impossible for the kitten to have contracted FIP anywhere
    else; the vet contends he'd contracted it at birth. Worse, we now
    need to have our eight-year-old mix, Electra, checked. All this after
    our cat Kerouac passed away last July from asthma.
    
    We just have to keep looking forward....
                    
754.29MROA::DJANCAITISAmericas MCS AdminWed Nov 16 1994 16:565
   I'm so sorry about Pugs - and won't say what I feel about the breeder !
   I'll add Pugs to the SLM listing.

   With my sympathies,
   Debbi Jancaitis
754.30I tired to do my best here...DELNI::FALLONThu Nov 17 1994 10:2170
    I feel the need to respond to your note, on several levels.  You
    realize of course that I am a breeder, but I also have pets of my own
    and know many people that do.
    
    I do not know the breeder you got poor Pugsley from, so I can not
    attest to her ethics and morals.
    
    All of this is such a touchy thing given emotions, expense and loss
    both on your part and possibly on the breeders as well.  Please bear
    this in mind.
    
    I guess the best way for me to address the various issues is to simply
    number them.
    1. A maloclussian is fairly common in persians, this is probably one of
    the reasons the cat was sold as a pet (if it was sold to you as a pet). 
    It does not do anything to change the general life of the cat.  I have
    a cat with no teeth that does really well and is up in age.  Perhaps
    the breeder didn't think it was worth mentioning.  Most pet owners
    don't have a clue and don't need to.  The same as and Oriental with
    ears aiming at 5degree different angle too high.  Not good for show,
    but what a beautiful cat!
    
    2.  I don't believe the breeder should have hung up on you, but how did
    you approach them?  If you attacked verbally, I would do the same thing
    maybe.  You cannot automatically assume that she is liable for the vet
    bills due to the jaw misalignment and because she has "failed to
    maintain an fip free business".  There is much in here on fip and I
    have to say, not all true.  It is difficult to know what to weed out.
    
    3.  I would also like to make a statement on what you typed that your
    vet said:  "contends he'd contracted it at birth".  Either the vet was
    just speaking off his hip or does not know.  Kittens do not get fip at
    birth.  It is not passed through the placenta and they do not get it
    during (at least) the first six weeks of life.  A lot of vets are
    extremely ignorant and ought to do a little research themselves.  Don't
    get me wrong, there are many out there that do know.
    
    4.  Perhaps the breeder honestly was not aware of the situation, if it
    did in fact come from her.  Fip is a virus just as well as the flu that
    we get or any other organism that preys host to living things.  It is a
    terrible thing because we can't test for it and we can't cure it.
    (kinda like aids, huh?)  It is also something that we all have to fear
    but live with the possibility.  You can narrow down the odds but that's
    it.  You can quite literally pick it up anywhere, odds are slim, but it
    can happen.
    
    5.  My reccomendation would be to call or send a note to the breeder. 
    Try to be calm and discuss it.  You may be able to work something out. 
    Perhaps another kitten or an older cat, perhaps share parts of the
    bill.  Remember the kitten was operated on for a blockage, that was not
    a cost incurred due to the fip ( or was it?).  Fip also runs in two
    ways: endozootic or epizootic.  Meaning either all the cats will get it
    or it could be an isolated case.  Do not bother to run titer test on
    Electra. It will waste your time and money as well as stress her out. 
    They are not difinitive in any way.  You can have a false neg or pos.
    As well as the fact that their are around 14 different corona virus',
    fip being only one of them.
    
    I hope this can shed some light for you, I sincerely feel badly for
    you and your wife.  But please take some time and think it all through
    rationally.  
    
    I have a copy of the fip report that the Winn Foundation printed in the CFA
    Almanac in the November issue.  The symposium took place this past
    August with the most noted international veterinary scientists from
    around the world.  I don't know that I will have time to type it in
    here.
    
    Karen
         
754.31Learning about FIPTNPUBS::DUBIEThu Nov 17 1994 10:5328
    Karen,

    Thanks for the reply--it enlightens me enormously, but it cannot absolve
    the breeder's negligence on a couple of fronts: 1. She did not mention
    the maloclusion; granted, this had nothing to do with FIP, but she
    neglected to point it out to us. Pugs developed a (very) loud cracking
    sound in his jaw after a couple of weeks with us. (It sounded like a
    nutcracker!) We were afraid of some mandibular problem, but X-rays
    showed that his jaw would not deteriorate over time. At worst, he'd
    have to have a tooth extacted. But, what if we did want to show him?
    (We wouldn't, but the breeder didn't reveal the cat's quality, show or
    pet.)

    2. The blockage Pugs had was caused by dry FIP, and it was virtually
    impossible for him to contract it anywhere but at the breeder's (Pugs
    was three months old when we got him). Also, it seems the breeder is in
    denial--we were in no way, shape, or form abusive in our call when she
    hung up on us. One suspects that, being told that a virus might exist
    in her cats would compel her to be upset; after all, it's her
    livelihood. However, if she fails to notify the other owners, and we
    have good reason to suspect that she won't notify them, she's acting
    irresponsibly.

    Again, thanks for your very informative comments. (I wish our breeder
    had the concern and information you do!;-)

    Bill

754.32Glad to hear I helped.DELNI::FALLONThu Nov 17 1994 11:0938
    Bill,
    I am glad what I have said helps.  No it does not absolve the breeder
    from explaining these things to you.  It sounds like you had more than
    just a crooked tooth type maloclusion.  I did not know this in the
    earlier response.  In this case it probably should have been mentioned,
    due to the fact that the poor baby should have had a tooth pulled and
    then be okay.  I would have to think now that you did not have a
    contract with them either.  Most people I know that sell kitties will
    tell you what quality the cat is.  This is most directly reflected by
    the cost of the animal.  For example my pets start around $250. 
    Everything depends on age, how much veterinary care I have had the
    expense of etc.  A show or breeder cat would be several hundred more,
    again depending.  Persians for show can go for a minimum of $1K. fyi.
    
    That is too bad that the blockage was caused by dry fip.  That form is
    the worst, in that you don't usually have any outward signs until the
    end.  He was a young cat which is the most suseptible age.  ONe thing I
    should have also said:  Because Elektra is an older kitty, she would
    have the best defense against the disease and may not have contracted
    it at all or fought it off. :'}
    
    I hope this woman does not use her cattery as a means to support
    herself.  Most (99%) of breeders are so far in the hole, it is a hobby
    of love.  It just helps out occasionally if you sell a kitty.  "gee,
    you mean I can by 80 lbs of food this week instead of 40!"
    
    I also wasn't trying to say that you upset her, I blankly did not know
    either way.  I didn't mean to infer that you had/
    
    Mostly,  please don't be turned off because of one bad egg.  Anyone
    buying a cat/kitten needs to ask questions (kick the tires) when
    purchasing an animal.  Just as I (and most) ask a whole bunch of stuff
    before we even consider selling or placing an animal.  If I don't like
    the person and my "gut" feeling says no, so do I.  Money is not the
    issue.  Please, anyone wanting to buy a purebred, do your homework!
    You can have a long and lasting love affair with what ever type cat you
    choose.  
    Karen
754.33My commentsUSCTR1::MERRITT_SKitty CityThu Nov 17 1994 12:2625
    I do agree with Karen on most of her points, even though I am
    looking at the issue from a different angle because I am not
    a breeder and do alot of work with a shelter.
    
    I would not worry to much about your older kitty and I wouldn't
    even bother putting him through the titer test because I wouldn't
    trust the results anyway.  To me the titer tests are worseless...and
    put more people in a panic if it comes up with a positive result.
    A positive results says there is a virus...but does not say your
    cat has FIP.
    
    I personally would call the breeder back and insist (nicely) that
    she discuss this with you.  Even if she is a breeder who does not
    offer money back or offer to pay vet bills after selling a kitten,
    she should atleast listen to you and tell you what her policy is.
    To me..knowing you did not attack her and she still hung-up
    on you...tells me she is a irresponsible breeder and she is in
    complete denial.  If you do not have a written contract...there
    is nothing you can do legally...but I would pursue it anyway
    I possibly could.
    
    Again...I'm so sorry all this happened to Pugs.
    
    Sandy   
                     
754.34Please overlook the typos! thanksDELNI::FALLONThu Nov 17 1994 13:32110
    I am gonna give it a go, although it may have to come in parts! 
    Re-written from November 1994 CFA Almanac.
    
    The Robert H. Winn Foundation & The University of California, Daves
    Center for Companion Animal Health
    International FIP/FECV Workshop
    _________________________________________________________________
    
    The Program, Participants, Future Direction by Joan Miller
    
    	The Robert H. Winn Foundation and the Center for Companion Animal
    Health (CCAH) co-sponsored and presented the 1st International Feline
    Infectious Peritonitus (FIP) and Enteric Coranavirus  (FECV) Workshop
    at the University of California, Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine
    on August 12-14, 1994.
    
    	Truly an international event, the workshop brought together
    veterinary scientists from all over the world.  Several of the
    presenters included new and important information on projects still
    underway and not yet published.  Many of the leading veterinary and
    industry scientists had never before met face to face to interact on
    the sugject of FIP.  The atmosphere was exciting.  A balance of
    learning, exchange of theories and creative brainstorming brought forth
    new information and helped to develop some direction for future
    scientific studies on FIP control in catteries and other multicat
    environments.
    	In addition to the 27 research participants from The Netherlands,
    jScotland, Switzerland, England, France, Germany, Australia and the
    United States there were four invited veterinarian practitioners who
    offered practical questions and information durng the sessions.  Four
    invited breeders with experience and knowledge of FIP also provided the
    cat fancy perspective and asked challenging questions of the
    scientists.  Several observers were present to assist in the
    dissemination of all the information which wsa generated by this
    workshop.  The complete proceddgings will be published in FELINE
    PRACTICE magazine with reprints available to veterinarians and cat
    fanciers.
    	Everyone was impressed with the overall organization, pecise
    programming, videotaping and excellant quality of all the
    presentations.  Complex scientific theories and research information
    were absorbed and informally analysed during the pleasant social
    gatherings on the campus.  Co-chairs, Dr. Niels Pedersen, Director of
    CCAH, and Janet Wolf, representing the Winn Foundation, coordinated all
    aspects of this precedent setting event.  Without their efforts adn
    those of the Winn Foundation Board members, The Cat Fancier's
    Association (CFA) staff and Sharon Anglin, CCAH manager, the high
    standard set by this workshop would not have been possible.  Generous
    support from many cat clubs, companies and individual donors made the
    worshop a reality. Major contributors  were the Winn Foundaton, CCAH,
    CFA, Marsha Ammons, Garden State CAt Club, Greater Lancaster Feline
    FAnciers, Hunt Country Cat Club, Ralsont Purina, SmithKline Beecham,
    Solvay and Virbac France.  The majority of the funds were donated by
    individual cat fanciers and clubs including contributins from the sale
    of special FIP buttons throughtout the United States.
    	One of the primary goals of the weekend was to give those in the
    veterinary biologics industry and research community a knowledge of the
    impact that FIP has on breeders of pedigreed cats.  A breeder survey
    was developed by the Winn Foundation and randomly distributed to
    breeders who register cats with CFA.  The epidemiology of FIP based on
    the breeder survey was presented along with the management problems of
    the disease from a breeder viewpoint.  The scientific program began
    with the background of feline coronavirus infections and the risk of
    FIP in cats naturally exposed to to feline coronavirus.  Topics
    included a review of relationship theories of FIP and other coronavirus
    infections, the genetic structure, diagnostics and current use of
    serology, prevention by vaccinations, control of feline coronavius
    infections by various methods and the state of knowledge of treatment. 
    Breakaway workgroups concentrated on recommendations for managmente in
    catteries and vaccination as a means of control in catteries.  These
    recommendations, when fully outlined and published with the procedings,
    will begin the process of education breeders and their veterinarians on
    ways to deal with FIP.  They will help focus future scientific work so
    that protection of cats in the multicat environment is emphasized in
    research projects.
    	The worshop made it apparent that several new directions are needed
    inresearch, diagnostics and vaccination.  Further analysis of the
    information from the breeder epidemiology survey and follow up
    questions would be valuable.  Determining the co-factors involved in
    susceptibility to and transmission of feline Corona viruses and 
    devolping testing methods which will be both sensitive and specific are
    needed.  The point was strongly made that the current tests for
    coronavius indicate exposure to a coronavius and NOT FIP virus infection. 
    And ther is no evidence that a cat with a high coronavius titer is an
    FIP carrier.  Participants agreed they would like to be able to predict
    carrier status in a cat and to know why some cats are totally immune to
    FIP challenges.  The need to refine and establish other reliable means
    of diagnosis, in addition to serology tests, was recognized.  More work
    must be done to dtermine the strains and esposure dose of virus in
    field conditions.  Several recommendations were directed  toward
    optimum use of the currently marketed vaccine and the future direction
    of vaccination trials and development.  Kittens are at hightest risk
    between six and eight weeks of age; therefore, protecting these kittens
    until they are more immunocompetent (16 weeks and older) seems to be
    the most critical cattery management and prevention challenge.  Ways in
    which to specifically modify cattery environments need to be explored. 
    Cattery decisions on control versus eradication of the feline
    coronavirus may be different for individual breeders and situations. 
    One of the most important ways in which breeders can contribute to the
    control of FIP is to de-stigmatize the disease and to communicate
    openness.  The workshop was a start in this approach and it gave real
    hope to everyone present that, with the help of the research groups,
    the biologics companies and veterinarians, the devastating impact of
    FIP can eventually be alleviated.  The Winn Foundation id dedicated to
    furthering this objective.
    
    Phew!!!  I will add the rest of the article another day!  To come:
    Overview and prelimanary recommendations, Possible strategies for
    control of coronavirus transmission/ prelimary recommendations.
    
    Karen 
754.35FIP TESTS (more to come)DELNI::FALLONMon Nov 21 1994 17:0251
    Overview and Preliminary Recommendations
    
    (Recommendations will be refined and clarified when included with the
    final published workshop prodeedings.)
    
    by: Hilary Helmrich
    
    	FIP is a disease which is caused by feline infectious peritonitus
    virus (FIPV).  Other members of this same group of viruses are termed
    feline enteric corona viruses (FECV).  These viruses appear to be
    relatively harmless and mainly affect the gastro-intestinal tract. 
    However, FIPV can cause serious, even deadly, disease in cats.  There
    are several theories on the relationship between FIPV and FECV, but the
    most likely explanation is that FIPV is a simple variant of FECV.
    	There are two forms of FIP disease that result from this viral
    infection, the "wet form" and the "dry form".  The wet form is the most
    common form of FIP and is characterized by fluid in the peritoneum or
    chest.  The dry (solid) form can affect the eyes, the brain, and other
    organs and has little or no fluid build-up.
    	FIP is found mainly where large groups of cats are housed together;
    shelters, catteries rescue facilities and large multicat households. 
    In households with only one cat FIP occurs at a rate of about 1:5000. 
    In multiple cat situations the disease occurs in up to 4-5% of the cats
    (and rarely as an epidemic).
    	For many years breeders have had FIP strike their households
    without warning and, although scientists have worked very hard to find
    answers to questions about transmission, protection and treatment of
    the virus, the answers to many questions have eluded them.  One of
    themain objectives of the International FIP?FECV Workshop was t assess
    current knowledge and find new direction and recommendations for
    control of FIP.
    	
    		FIP Tests
    	There has been much discussion over the last few years about the
    meaning of FIP tests and FIP titers.  The scientists agreed that
    although the current serology test are an indicator of exposure to
    coronavirus infections in general, they are not a good indicator of the
    presence of FIP disease.  Some scientists are currently working with
    new technology which may result in the more sensitive testing method
    known as polymerase chain reaction (PCR).  These tests are experimental
    and expensive and it is no yet clear that they are better indicators
    than the current tests.
    	One of the most important discussions about FIP testing was made by
    one of the presenters who had studied catteries in England.  She stated
    that more cats were "euthenized" on the basis of blood test results
    than were euthenized because they were sick.  In other words, on the
    basis of test results alone, cats were being euthanized when it was not
    really known whether the cat had the disease.  The researcher reminded
    the veterinarians that this is a serious mistake.  Coronavirus titers
    are an indicator of EXPOSURE to either harmless or harmful types of
    coronaviuses and are not a definitive diagnosis of disease.