Conference misery::feline

>>>                     <<< Note 214.0 by SANFAN::BALZERMA >>>
                                 -< VACCINES >-

Wow!  What a difficult time for you both.  I suspect the problem you are
seeing is due to the medium in which the vaccine is created, rather than the
actual virus....so, please be very careful not to give eggs in any form
to that boy...they are usually the medium, aren't they? 

Having heard about this, I now cringe when I get my cats vaccinated, and we
don't do them in 3-in-1, or 4-in-1 shots, but one at a time so I can watch
for reaction and know what is causing it...and I don't vaccinate for FeLV as
my four are stay-at-home-with-no-visitors cats.

    The Bales has had raw egg yolks added to his food in the past with no
    adverse reactions.  This was during the time that he was showing signs
    of dry coat from eating W/D.
    
    Single virus vaccines are very difficult to get anymore, as most are
    sold in 3-in-1 and 4-in-1 sets.  Most vaccine companies don't even
    carry the single virus vaccines, other than chlamydia.  My feeling is
    that if you stick with a killed virus vaccine like Felovax PCT the
    chances of reactions are slim.  The Bales reactions are not the norm. 
    He is a very sensitive cat, and almost any change in his routine can
    cause him to show some sort of symptoms.  He has had bouts with
    colitis during a change of diet, and asthma with a change of litter
    brands.
    
    Jo

    Gosh, poor you both.  (What's Fel-O-VAX PCT for?)
    
    I swore off vaccinations for myself awhile back.  I can't
    tolerate anything without getting ringing in my ears for weeks.  But
    that's a lot better that poor Bailey's reaction.
    

    Felovax PCT is a three in one killed virus vaccine that protects
    against Calicivirus, Rhinotracheitis, and Panleukopenia.
    
    Jo

    
    RE: .2  Thanks Auntie Jo!  You know the Bales as well as I do!  :')
    Bailey still gets yolks and devours them with no adverse reaction.
    With the steady diet of W/D he needs it for his coat.  Alot of 
    people are convinced that it is because of "the breed", a Persian hybrid. 
    When it comes to his colitis I can go along with that.  Lots of Himmies, 
    Exotics and Persian suffer from it.  The sensitivity to the vaccines 
    is another story.  The Bales was the only survivor of a litter of 5.
    He was premature and from all accounts really should not have made it.
    I believe that his problems stem from his developmental processes or
    lack there of.  Other cats from this breeding have experienced no
    problems, his lil' bro' Alex and his Ms. Preschie to name a couple.
    My concern for not vaccinating him will increase only if Callie
    produces a kitten that I can show.
    
    

    When I talked this over with Doc Rue, she said that even if the Bales
    was exposed to the upper respiratory viruses and became ill, those
    illnesses are now treatable and his prognosis would be good.  She said
    that she wouldn't be concerned about it even with kittens in the house,
    or even with him being exposed to show cats.  She said that he will
    likely produce his own immunity when confronted with the illness. 
    Course, the flip side of that would be if he became a carrier of upper
    respiratory--but let's not worry about that until we have to. :')
    
    Jo

    
    	I am interested info on the FIP vaccine. Effectiveness, cost,etc.
    
    		Thanks
    	Pat
    

    I just read a article written by Nels Pederson DVM in the SCBF
    newsletter that recommends NOT using the FIP vaccine at this time.  The
    Robert H. Winn Foundation is currently funding an independent study of
    the vaccine.  When the results are published I will enter them here.
    
    Jo

    
    Soon it will be time to give my babes their first vaccines.  There
    seems to be many schools of thought on when this should take place.
    The Cornell Book of Cats indicates 8 weeks, many other publications
    say 7 weeks.  What's your schedule?
    
    

    My method depends on how much the kittens are nursing.  If they are six
    weeks old and either not nursing, or not nursing much, then I give
    a series of three vaccines, beginning at six weeks.  If the kittens are
    nursing completely at six weeks, there is no point in vaccinating at
    this age since the maternal antibodies will destroy the vaccine.
    
    If the kittens are still nursing at six weeks, I wait and begin the
    vaccines when weaning begins.  This can be anywhere from 7-13 weeks.
    The average age seems to fall at 9 weeks for us though.  Then we give
    the booster at 12 weeks.
    
    I use Felovax PCT killed virus vaccine on my kittens.
    
    Jo

When visiting our local mall, I stopped in the pet store to peek at the
kittens. They had a litter of kittens that someone had given them to sell. None
of the kittens looked all that healthy, but one little guy has me worried. He
was foaming at the mouth, and I mean FOAMING. Also, his eyelids were very droopy
and he appeared very listliss. When I told the manager about this, she informed
me that they had just gotten a vaccination, and sometimes kittens react like
this. And that he'll get over it. Well, I personally have never experienced
this with any of my cats and was wondering, is this really a *normal* reaction
for kittens? BTW - they looked to be about 7 weeks old.

Thanks,
Laura

    
    The scarey thing is that if the baby was responding that way
    after their first shot, there is a good chance that he/she will have a
    a more severe if not fatal response when he/she gets it's second shot.  The
    severity of responses to vaccines increase with each injection.  With
    the Bales there was slight foaming (he kept trying to swallow and 
    was licking his lips) and he got really listless.  Basically his system
    was starting to shut down.  The second time it happened everything shut
    down and he went into anaphylactic shock.  I can never vaccinate him
    again.  Chances are he would be dead before the needle was pulled out.
    The risk for him to be vaccinated is greater that the risk of
    contracting the diseases that he would be vaccinated for. 
    
    All cats/kittens should be monitored after vaccination whether they
    are home, at the vet or in a pet store.  Yet another pet store horror
    story as far as I am concerned....
    
    

    A friend of mine just informed me that she had a terrible experience at
    the vets. I was wondering if any of you have experienced something
    similar or can give any input.
    
    SCENARIO:
    Two cats went in for their shots, both got Rabies and the 3 in 1
    modified live by Solvay.  The Rabies was IM and 3in1 SQ.  Within
    seconds the cats started to vomit.  The vet gave some shot to stop the
    vomiting, which didn't really help.  The cats were sent home and one
    went on to develop extremely red ears (I would think from blood
    pressure) became extremely dehydrated and died.  The vets were also
    "supposedly" helping and had prescribed more medications for the cats.
    
    Now, wouldn't the sub-q shot get into the system quicker than the intra
    muscular? And, I have heard of cats reacting to their shots in an
    allergic manner, but isn't it odd that both cats became so ill?  The
    cats were even under the care of the vet, at home.  Could this be a bad
    batch?  The owner is very upset btw with the veterinarian, of course!
    
    My small mind tells me that I have heard within the last few months
    about something that was pulled from the market, could this be it?
    
    Karen

    Marlene Balzer's Bailey has had reactions to vaccines for several years
    now.  (I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, Marlene.)  I believe
    the term used to describe the reaction is anaphylitic shock.  I
    personally feel that the vet did the cats a disservice by sending them
    home and not monitoring their symptoms closely.  Even my housecall vet
    will stick around for at least 15 minutes after vaccinating the cats to
    ensure there are no adverse reactions to the vaccines.
    
    It appears that the cats had an allergic reaction to that particular
    vaccine (most likely the 3 in 1), but the possibility of a bad batch
    sounds realistic as well.  I wonder if other cats vaccinated from that
    batch had similar reactions as well?
    
    -Roberta
    

    
    First of all, I cannot believe that the vet sent the cats home.  I
    would find a new vet.  While severe reaction to vaccinations are not
    seen on a regular basis, it is common knowledge and it is written clearly 
    on the vaccines that a reaction may occur.  Had the vet monitored the cats
    he could have intervened with meds, specifically epinepherine.
    
    As Roe had mentioned, Bailey has severe reactions and cannot be
    vaccinated. Additionally I have had a problem with Callie.  She
    was due for her 3in1 at the time I was vaccinating her litter of 
    kittens.  I was rusty on my injecting so I decided to do Callie
    first, then the kittens.  I inserted the needle and did not have
    a good grip on her and she took off.  I only got 1/2 of the amount in
    her.  I did the kittens, monitored them for 15 minutes and they were
    fine.  I decided to finish with Callie.  Approx. 2-3 minutes after
    I injected the remaining amount she started with projectile vomiting.
    I flew to the Emergency Hospital and they monitored her for 2 hours.
    Thankfully she was fine.  I cannot take the risk in vaccinating her 
    again.
    
    Also, are different schools of thought on modified live vs. killed.  My
    vet feels that there is more of a risk of a severe reaction with the
    killed because of the chemicals used in its processing.  I would not
    however, use ML with newborns around, or now, with 2 cats that cannot
    be vaccinated.  It will be interesting to see how Kisa (a kitten of
    Callie's that I kept) does with it when it comes time for her
    vaccination.
    
                

    I spoke with the woman again last nite.  The more updated info:
    
    both cats reacted harshly, but one was throwing up a little more. The
    vet gave a nausea shot to one and different medication to the other. 
    The one that got both shots lived. He told the owner "Derr, I guess I
    should have given the other one both too!"  I'd like to crack that vet
    upside the headlights.  Did he go to VetUniv. in the back of the
    Enquirer?!  Obviously the woman has been very upset and is considering
    changing her vets.  She knows most in her area and is very particular. 
    I quess she has not been happy with those that are around.  Don't get
    the wrong impression, she is not a difficult person, but knows what
    type of care her cats deserve, and how the vet should work with an
    animal.  I thank my lucky stars I have a vet that is good with cats
    and has an all out hospital, right across the street from my house!!
    Karen

    Hi,

    We have 7 cats and historically have had all of them get their shots
    regularly at the vet.  Needless to say, it tends to cost some *serious* 
    bucks over time.  

    We also have 8 horses (and 4 goats, and a dog)  and have been giving 
    our own injections for most of the regular vaccines for all but the dog.  
    We buy the vaccines from "Jeffers General, Equine, and Pet" catalog 
    (phone: 1-800-JEFFERS).  They've always done a great job in shipping the 
    vaccines safely, quickly, and packed with cold packs.  This has saved
    big $ over time.

    The Jeffers catalog is very complete; all types of supplements, etc.  Its
    geared primarily for Horse and livestock owners, but there are a couple
    of pages devoted to Cat (and Dog) vaccines.

    Any of the vaccines for cats available from a vet are available from
    Jeffers.  The most expensive one is $6.35 which is a combination
    vaccine from "Fort Dodge" for Leukemia, Rhino, Calci, Panleukopenia, and
    Chlamydia.  Most of the vaccines are between $2 and $5.  Single type
    and combination vaccines are available.

    Does anyone out there give their cats their injections themselves?
    If so, any advice, recommendations, or warnings worth noting?  We're
    at the research stage on this for the present.  The cats receive
    endless pats and general adoration, so the ultimate decision will be
    based on what's best for the cats.

    Thanks,

    	-John

      
       Do you obtain perscriptions for these vaccines from a vet, or are
    they all non-perscription items. Also, what sort of training have you
    had to be able to administer the injections correctly??
    
    
       By the way...Jeffers has a separate catalog for cat and dog supplies
    which I also get and use. Their prices tend to be somewhat better on
    average than all of the other pet supply houses that I am aware of,
    such as J&B, R.C. Steele, etc... Only problem is that they do not carry
    a few of the items that I use...
    
       John McD

    
    The vaccines are non-perscription, at least in NH where I live.
    
    Our large animal vet showed us how to give equine and goat vaccines. 
    He also does small animals on occasions and could show us that as well.
    
    I was unaware of the separate catalog for cats/dogs; I'll have to call
    and request.  Thanks for the info.
    
    -John

    My husband and I giver our own shots.  I order them, he does the
    shooting!  I can't bring myself to do it, but I suppose in an emergency
    I could.  Our vet showed us how to do it.
    
    We only give the basic three way vaccine and use an all killed variety
    by Fort Dodge.  FEL-O- Vax PCT.  You must keep them refrigerated at all
    times and pay attention to the expiration date.  We let our vet give
    the rabies as you need a certificate from the vet and we have also let
    him give the leukemia vaccine too.  
    
    When ordering, I would prefer to order at this time of year or late
    fall to avoid extreme high and low temperatures.  You never know where
    they will sit during transit, properly packaged or not.
    
    Remember to properly dispose of the needles afterwards.  We keep a
    coffee can for this purpose and then bring it over to the vets for them
    to dispose of them.  If you learn to give sub-q injections without a
    hitch, it can come in very handy for other situations.  A good example
    is when you may need to give fluids to an ailing cat.
    Karen
    
    ps.  OUr vet also does a "cattery" call.  ONe flat fee of $65. and then
    the cost of the shots only.  We set up a banquet table and just work
    our way through them.  This can save quite a bit of money!  

    I know that Jan's Cordes's ex-DECie sister Jo gives shots to some of
    her cats, but what I wonder about is the rabies shot; I know that in
    massachussetts, you have to have a vet signed certificate of
    innoculation. If  you did it yourself, how would you "prove" the cat
    had been innoculated?
    
    Deb

    I would gladly do my guys, with 10 cats, all the vet appts. is
    expensive, but all the catalogs I get say it is not legal in 
    Mass. to do your own.....guess I could give my Dad's NH address,
    but with my luck, I'd get caught....
    

    Denise,
    It is not illegal to purchase vaccines in MA.  You do need a
    prescription in order to purchase the syringe/needles.  You can
    always purchase the syringe from your vet.  We have usually done this.
    Fort Dodge used to supply pre-loaded syringes but does so no longer. 
    If you get along well with your vet you can ask him/her about it.
    
    If my cats only needed one shot/visit per year, I would take them to
    the vets.  Even my own, see the vet at least once a year.  This way
    they are examined in other ways that I can't.  It keeps costs down for
    me as I have to give so many shots per year or litter, but they still
    get a check up! :'}
    Karen

    I think that Denise is right about the RABIES vaccine (no problem
    purching the 3-in-one, etc). ANd I think it has something to do with
    the fact you must have proof (a signed vet certificate) showing that
    your cat was vaccinated against rabies within the last 12 months.
    
    Deb

    It probably does no good to give the rabies vaccine anyway.
    A friend of mine ordered the vaccines no problem.  The vet she
    used didn't have a problem with this originally.  Well, when she
    brought in several of her cats for check ups and other shots/stuff, 
    they wouldn't recognize her shots.  
    
    I suppose they think this helps with control.  The shots work either
    way, but if a vet doesn't give it, it doesn't count.  
    They always get you one way or the other!
    Karen

    In case some of you aren't aware of it....
    There is a new vaccine out for ringworm.  I cannot say if it is good
    or bad.  I would not use it, but then I don't have longhairs or RW.
    Most vets have it now I think or they can get it and it is put out by
    Fort Dodge.
    Karen