Conference misery::feline

    I have the same problem with those darn drops! My kitties absolutely
    hate them!
    
    This probably isn't much help, but my solution was to beg my vet to
    give me pills instead of drops! I can pill my kids before they know
    what's happening, but the drops always end up with more on me and their
    fur, than down the gullet! :-( ;-) That does make me afraid they aren't
    getting the right dosage too.
    
    Yonee

    Ideally, you need two people - one to hold the cat and the other to
    shove medicine down said cat's throat. I can manage on my own, but a
    helper is infinately easier.
    
    Jimmy hates medicine. Rosie (little angel) will eat or drink anything I
    give her, but Jimmy refuses to co-operate in any way on principle. 
    
    I usually do the following:
    
    Ensure that all doors and windows are shut and that there are as few
    hidey-holes as I can manage (unless, of course, you like playing
    "hunt/chase the kitty" if he escapes!).
    
    Wrap Jimmy in a big towel or sheet so that only his head is visible and
    he cannot scratch.
    
    Hold Jimmy firmly (this is where it is so much easier to have a
    helper). Make sure that he can't wriggle out from underneath the sheet.
    NEVER let him get away with it if he does. Grab him again and make him
    understand that he is going to take his medicine, like it or not, and
    you're prepared to stay all night until he does.
    
    Force open his mouth, gently, but firmly. If you press gently on either
    side of his mouth he HAS to open it - can't do anything else. Lean his
    head back so that gravity assists, but not so far that you choke him.
    
    Squirt/pour medicine or drop tablet as far into his mouth as you can.
    If you have one of those droppers, it helps for liquid medicine.
    
    Quickly shut his mouth and hold it tightly until he has swallowed it.
    Rubbing his throat often helps. 
    
    When you're sure it's gone, give him a treat. Mine know that a slice of
    ham often follows medicine and have learned to associate medicine with
    treat. It might make it easier for the future, especially if your cat
    is on a course of medicine.
    
    I used to be very worried in case I hurt my cats at first and I took
    ages to get their tablets down them - then my brother's girlfriend (used 
    to dosing reluctant dogs) just opened their mouths and gave them their 
    tablets. No nonsense and no fuss.                              

    Try wrapping Harley tightly in a towel so he can't get his legs out. 
    Then you can hold his head and get the dropper into his mouth.
    
    Good luck
    
    Marilyn  

    Another thing that I just remembered. When I had the little motor oil
    kitten, Indy at my house, I had to give him drops. (too little for
    pills) 
    
    The vet gave me a syringe type thing instead of the dropper with the
    rubber ball suction thing. That way, it was just depress the plunger,
    no squeezing the bulb several times to make sure all the stuff was out.
    
    We use the syringe type things at the shelter too, and it is much
    easier to measure AND to dispense. I usually try to put the syringe
    sort of in the side of the mouth where there's is a space in the teeth.
    That way you don't even have to pry the mouth open. It surprises the
    kitty sometimes too! ;-)
    
    Yonee (who still prefers pills to drops!)

    Well, I may be strange, but I prefer liquid to pills.  Try pilling Kyra
    and you'd see why! (-:
    
    What I do ...
    
    Put medicine in the dropper before even attempting to catch the kitty.
    
    Take a BIG towel and wrap the kitty in the towel so only the head
    sticks out.  Be sure that the towel is wrapped around the kitty so that
    the kitty can't squirm out.  
    
    Put wrapped kitty under your left arm and hold securely.  Grab the
    dropper and put it in the side of the mouth.  Move the lip with the
    dropper and put the end of it in between the kitty's teeth.  Squeeze. 
    Kitty will squirm because s/he doesn't like the taste.  Then have a
    treat ready to give to them right afterward (Get a favorite people food
    like lunchmeat, cheese, or whatever).  After kitty has gotten the
    treat, let them go.
    
    Good luck!!
    
    Holly
    

    
    
    
    				 1
    
    
    	Does anyone know what type of medications/shots can be administered
    by the owner and not the vet?  A friend of mine had to give insulin
    shots to her dog, because the dog needed this treatment every day.
    	I was wondering, of the shots that vets normally give to cats,
    like the yearly checkup shots - for distemper and leukemia (not to
    include rabies shot) - can these shots, and other shots, say for
    insulin, be administered by the owner or by a cat shelter (person).
    Is this allowed?  I don't know what the regulations are pertaining to
    the medical treament of animals.  I was just wondering, since being
    able to administer certain types of medicine/shots would cut down
    of vet expenses for shelters, in particular.  Also, would a
    veternianary assistant/technician be able to administer medicines/shots
    for animals at shelters?  What do shelters do to help reduce medical
    expenses for their kitties?  Also, I wonder how many vets help shelters
    by offering a break in price?
    
    Eleanor
                                  

    Re .0
    
         I prefer liquid over pills; the cats *always* spit out the pills,
    even if I use one of those shooter-things.  You've gotten great advice
    here; if you don't have a helper, use the towel and some muscle power. 
    Sometimes they'll yell as if you're trying to kill them, or growl, but
    just ignore it and stick with the business at hand.
    
    Re. .6
    
         I know many breeders give their cats their vaccinations; I'm not
    sure exactly what the rules on this are.
    
         But my cat Loki is a diabetic; in MA you don't need a prescription
    for the insulin, but you do for the needles.  I buy the insulin off the
    shelf, and my vet gives me a prescription, for Loki, for the needles. 
    I'm great friends with the pharmacist now, and he always asks how my
    diabetic cat is doing 8-) .
    
    					- Andrea

      I've found another method of restraint to be even better than the
    towel... Take a large, heavy, knee-length sock and cut the foot off. Now 
    you have a tube of strong yet stretchable (to a degree) cloth. I've had
    little trouple putting this "on" my cats, and their little feets are
    all tucked up inside and can't be used to sink those claws into the old
    flesh!! It makes it much easier to control them than to worry about
    letting go of the worng part of the towel..
    
       I use the dropper/syringe when I am able to, but sometimes you
    simply hae to take them in hand, so to speak..
    
       John McD 

    
    
    	True Grit, yep, that's what it takes to give your kitty a pill.
    
    	You have to be firm and in command, even if your legs feel like
    	jello.
    
    
    	eleanor

Hi,

I just wanted to thank you for all of the wonderful advice.  You are truly a
bunch of very special people and I always enjoy your messages (and especially
the advice).  I wouldn't know what I would do without all of you.

Thank You soooo much


Dawn & Harley

    Poor little Abigail will be on pills for the rest of her life, but I
    shouldn't complain - they are helping to keep her alive and healthy.
    She is an extremely sweet thing and, God bless her, all I have to
    do is pick her up in my arms and hold her like a baby and she opens
    her mouth and I put in the pill.  She swallows it like a trouper and 
    then I kiss and hug her and treat her to some food (gotta get her fat 
    again)!  She does NOT like liquid, so the pills work out fine.
    
    Otis, God, I hope he never gets sick)!!  He doesn't have claws ... he 
    has razored bull dozers on his feet ... and smart?  If I tried the towel
    thing ... all I would have to do is fold the laundry and if he saw a
    towel, hrmmmph - he'd remember I tried that technique on him ONCE and 
    he'd book it under a bed.  He needs three people (he weighs 18+ pounds) 
    to pill.  But, perhaps if he were sick he wouldn't care and would be 
    easier to medicate.  For some reason (however) Dr(s) Mulcahy and Moss can 
    do anything with him and he lies there like a lump.  Guess he knows they 
    mean business! 
    
    Tiffany squirms but can be quieted easily enough ... she's kinda stupid
    in that you can try the same "trick" on her time after time and she
    ...just doesn't get it!  She pills better than giving liquid.
    
    Advice?  No, guess each one is different (just like children) and
    you have to use whatever technique is best for you.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Marilyn
    

    If only Harley would take his medicine as well as Abigail.  God Bless
    her.  You are right.  Cats are like children.  They needs lots of
    attention and love and they are more than willing to return that love.
    It's soooo wonderful.  I haven't tried the pills yet, but the vet did
    suggest ointment for his eyes.  I told her that I would need about 3
    people to hold him down if I did this.  He's getting into his "terrible
    two's" and he's not even one yet.  The liquid seems to work best for
    me.  I am going to try all the suggestions that everyone gave me.  I
    figure if he catches on to one of them I have several backups.
    
    
    Thanks again
    
    Dawn
    

    I have a couple that I'm giving antibotics to right now.  I have 
    the droppers with the squeeze bulbs on the end that came with the
    liquid medication.  I find wrapping them in a towel just gets them
    angry before I start.  I get on the floor on my knees, opened to a vee, 
    with kitty faced away from me and my getting it from behind, so that when 
    they back away they back into me, and grasp the upper jaw each side 
    between thumb and forefinger of one hand and dribble the liquid in about 
    a third or a half at a time. It helps to have someone in front to take 
    care of the front claws, but I have managed on my own. 
    
    I also find the tighter I hold the cat the more they struggle.
    
    A few weeks ago when Chris came home from a fight with blood dripping
    out from various places, the vet gave me some citris flavoured stuff
    that seemed to find favor.  He still didn't like it but he didn't seem
    to fight as hard as with the bubble gum flavoured stuff.  I can't
    remember the name but I believe it's quite new.
                                                                  

    To answer the question of home medicating/vaccinating.
    
    First: it is important to realize that most animals only see the vet
    once a year for the annual shots.  They need this time with him/her so
    that the cat can have a "once over" for general health.
    
    In general it probably is cheaper if you (breeder/shelter) do your own
    shots, just as long as the animals see a vet too.  I can tell you what
    my practice is.
    
    I get along well with my vet and we work together on many things.  He
    understands that I have many cats and many different requirements.  We
    do not abuse this relationship (or try not to:')!)
     We order our general vaccines (3-in-one) in bulk for discount and get
    the syringes from the vet.  When they are used we collect them and
    return them to him for disposal.  
    
    When the kittens are young, if they are not exhibiting any reason to be 
    seen, they get their first two in the series of three shots.  Sometimes
    we give the third or take them to the vet for the third in addition to 
    any other vaccines needed.  I prefer to give them the first shots at
    home as opposed to taking them into an environment where there is a
    greater liklihood of exposure to many types of disease that one
    encounters at the vets.  This way the immune system is prepared for the
    onslaught!  
    
    Sometimes the vet will give you price breaks in multi cat situations,
    and sometimes it is cheaper to use a mail order company.  Talk to your
    vet and see how they feel.  If they know you can handle a needle
    properly it will go a long way.  You will be able to administer fluids
    or insulin, whatever as needed.  And yes, save the money of having to 
    take the animal to the vets every day.  First, speak to your vet and
    they may work more with you.
    Karen
         

    I use a syringe, a disposable plastic thing. Be careful not to push it
    very quickly, the liquid can be dangerous if coming too fast. Just
    drop.
    
    And never use a glass dropper, cat can bite it or otherwise break it,
    and then you have big trouble with the glass splitters!
    
    I even make from pills a solution, for I manage it much better in
    liquid form. And, be very loving and patient... somehow the cat starts
    to feel then that it MUST be.
    
    (some pills might be powderised and added to the food. I managed this
    with antiworm-pills)
    
    Just my late 2 cents.
    
    Nat

    Hi Nat!
    
    I am not sure if you understood that I was talking about a syring with
    a needle or not.  This you would use to inject fluids under the skin.
    But yes, there are also oral syringes :').  These can work quite well
    for some too.  I have cats that either do better with liquid medicine
    or pills and I medicate them accordingly.
    
    You should  be careful making pills into a liquid tho.  Some are
    designed to dissolve once in the stomach/intestines.  Others it is
    okay.  I only use plastic if it goes into the mouth, gosh, you could
    have a real disaster!!
    Karen

    Re.: -1
    
    Hiya! I use (therefore I thought of) a 'normal' syringe, the needle
    type - of course without the needle. It works great. And yes, I know
    about some special pills and capsels to 'go off' only if inside first.
    I only make a solution from 'normal' pills.
    
    Anyway, thanks for your care!
    
    Meow, Nat
                                               

    Hi,
    
    I need some advice and reassurance.  My aging kitty was recently
    diagnosed with kidney problems.  As a result, I have to give him
    NutriCal (similar to Laxatone) and a pill every day.  So far I'm
    managing but I'm afraid he will grow to hate or distrust me.  I
    usually give him the pill in the morning and the NutriCal at night
    after he has had his dinner.  I have read all the notes under this
    topic and will try some of the suggestions - specifically, wrapping 
    him in a LARGE towel so I can help restrain him plus protect me from
    his razor sharp nails!  I figured that if I space out his medicines, 
    I won't overwhelm him or make him really mad.   
    
    Giving him the NutriCal is a very dramatic experience.  I try to talk 
    to him soothingly and praise him but as we near the end of his 1 tsp 
    dosage, he is always growling, hissing and making all sorts of nasty
    noises.  I do use an oral syringe which helps speed things up and helps
    me ensure he's getting the correct dosage.  I just don't want him to 
    run from me everytime he sees me - so far he hasn't  - only during 
    "medicine time"!  Maybe rewarding him after his medicine will show
    him I'm not such a bad mommy after all?!!
    
    Any insight?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Michele and Chico

    A cat treat after medicine is always a good idea.  As much as Misha
    hated to be wrapped in a towel and have his mouth pried open,
    afterwards, he'd wait for his treat.
    
    I read a story in Cat Fancy about a cat who didn't want to take her
    meds and her owner told her that the meds were necessary and would make
    her feel better, and the cat decided to take them without a struggle. 
    I don't know if that was a fictional story or not.  But worth a try.
    
    It's funny that the cats that need Nutrical are the ones that don't like
    it.   
    
    Good luck,
    
    Steffi
    

    Have you tried mixing the nutrical into the cat's food?  Or maybe
    mixing it into some special treat, like babyfood?  Or maybe a special
    people food that the cat loves?  
    
    There is absolutely no way that I could get Kyra to eat nutrical on her
    own.  I can't even get it into her with a srynge (sp?).  However, I
    HAVE found that I can mix it into about 2 teaspooons of baby food and
    she'll gobble it right up.
    
    H

    Thanks for the suggestions!  Short of eating the NutriCal myself (to
    show him how yummy it is! YUK), I will try anything to get it into Chico!  
    
    Last night was interesting to say the least!  I tried wrapping him in a 
    towel - I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing - he look like 
    SuperKitty with his little head poking out from under the blue towel!! 
    This made him more determined not to eat the NutriCal and escape!  At 
    times he just let the NutriCal sit on the edges of his mouth.  I had to 
    take my finger and rub it in a bit so he'd be forced to lick it off. If
    I hadn't, I'm convinced he would have let it harden!!  By the end of
    our little adventure, he had globs all over his mouth, chin, the towel 
    and of course, me!!  But, I got it all into him, washed his little face
    and rewarded him with a treat.  About 10 min. later he was curled up
    next to me so he either has short-term memory or he knows that I'm just
    trying to take care of him!!
    
    I will try mixing it in his food tonight - although I fear he'll smell
    it's there and promply turn his little nose up, but it's worth a shot!  
    I haven't given up on the towel trick - atleast it protects me from his
    nails!!  I guess I'll keep trying different tricks until I find the best 
    ways to get him to take the medicine!   
    
    Once again, thanks!
    
    Michele and Chico

    Another suggestion would be to talk to the vet and see if it is
    possible to get liquid vitamins such as Pet Tinic.  I find it
    much easier to hide pet tinic in food...or to even use a dropper
    for a kitty that is hard to medicate.
    
    Sandy          

    A few weeks ago, my mum's youngest cat, Micky, was diagnosed with a
    virus. Her other cat, Becky has now caught the virus so she has two
    cats to dose. Micky is a squirming nightmare to give pills to, but
    Becky is by far the worst I've ever had to help with.
    She froths at the mouth, reduces the pill to gunge and dribbles it down
    her front, making it impossible to try again. 
    She's got to have these pills every day and my mum says that they do
    taste nasty (?!?!!). Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get Becky
    to swallow them?

    The main thing to remember when pilling a cat is to get their head
    straight up with the mouth wide open and bascily throw the pill down
    their throat; that was the cat doesn't taste it at all.
    
    If you can't seem to do that, an alternative is to stuff the pill in a
    little ball of butter. Cats like the taste of butter, and should the
    pill not go directly down, the butter will desolve in the cats mouth,
    not thepill
    
    Deb

    I need to know if there is anyone out there who can or knows
    someone who can, medicate a kitty.  My Marvin, from note 837,
    has stabilized, however, he has developed heart problems from
    the kidney disease.  He needs to be given a pill 3 times a day.
    It is real easy as Marvin is a snap to medicate.  
    
    Jim and I are planning to go away on vacation and need to have
    someone come in and take care of Marvin's medical needs.  Of
    course I will be willing to compensate.  Someone mentioned a 
    Cindy Fisher who used to work at DEC and was active in the 
    Feline Notes file.  I understand that she lives in Chelmsford
    which would be perfect since that is where we live.
    
    Sooo, if anyone out there knows of Cindy or someone who can
    give my Marvin his medication while we are away, I would appreciate
    hearing from you.
    
    Thanks to all of you for your prayers regarding Marvin's kidney
    failure.  He is eating his Science Diet KD and the disease seems
    to have been arrested.
    
    Thanks a million,
    Arlene

    I have Cindy's card.
    She can be reached at: 508-251-3412
    She lives at 15 Kiberd Drive in North Chelmsford.
    Please tell her I passed this on to you!
    thanks,
    Karen Fallon

    Sorry, can't give Bubba his pill!  Have tried crushing it into his
    food.  It doesn't eat all of it.  Beside giving it to him orally,
    does anyone have a trick, like wrapping it with peanut butter, mixing
    it with tuna fish....anything?
    
    

Crush the pill into powder form, mix it with a little (like 1 ml) water, suck it
into the syringe, stick the syringe into the side of the cat's mouth and,
"Torpedoes Away!"

						Trace

    As the mother of 5 cats who could all easily be medal
    winners in the "long distance pill spitting" olympics,
    I can testify that -1 is the best option.  Instead of water,
    you can also substitute Linetone or VAL syrup.  
    
    Mary-Michael

    Baby food has always worked for me.  Try a few different flavors.
    If not, be sure to verify that the meds are ok to dilute in water/liquid 
    (most are) before dosing with a a syringe (although some cats hate that 
    too...).  Good Luck!!!

  What kind of syringe is it?  I use the one that holds a pill, but you are
obviously using something that can take liquid, and it sounds better.

			SQ

Just be sure to use it without a needle! :-). You can even add a touch of water
to regular cat (or baby food) and get it thin enough to push through the syringe
as well. We use that method sometimes when we need to force-feed an animal.

						Trace

    Thank you all for your suggestions.
    
    Linda

    Has anyone tried the syringe method with the new Program flea product
    for cats?  I have 7 cats and have tried baby food, their regular canned
    food, tuna-fish, milk, and ice cream.  Nothing seems to work.  They
    might try a *little* of the offered item, but they won't finish it.  As
    much as I hate pills, I think it's better than this liquid form.
    
    Sandi

    Re: .34
    
    I may try a syringe -- two of my cats don't eat all the Program-
    laced food, just about half of it.
    

    Someone relayed to me the latest info they'd heard on pilling a cat,
    but I don't *get* it, unless they left out a critical step.  They said
    "After you put the pill in, hold the mouth closed, but you don't have
    to rub the throat the way you would a dog's.  If they can't breathe
    very well you can just let go.  They'll lick their chops [or nose] and
    you'll know that the pill went down!"
    
    Well, sure.  IF they swallowed the pill.  Hold the mouth closed UNLESS
    they can't breathe, in which case don't bother?!
    
    Maybe the advice was originally meant as confirmation that the pill
    went down (tongue out = pill gone), but I can always tell from residual
    pill-sludge :-) when it *hasn't* gone down.  Every cat I've tried to pill
    can wait all day long with a pill in its mouth, *unless* I rub its
    throat.  Then they have to swallow, and if the pill is far back enough,
    it has to go down.
    
    Does anyone recognize the original version of this advice, and am I
    missing its point?
    
    Leslie

    I don't usually rub cats throats. I tend to either blow on their face a
    bit or touch a drop or two of water to their nose.
    
    						Trace

    I hold mine until I feel her swallow, and then I pop her mouth open
    just to make sure.  Both of mine are pretty good about swallowing
    pills.  I'd rather feed them pills than liquid medications that tend to
    make them gag - I end up wearing most of liquids I try to get them to
    swallow.  They are reasonably cooperative about having their human slave
    do undignified things to them since I clip their claws every week.  The
    old cat will even purr during that operation, because she knows she
    will get brushed afterwards, and she likes that a lot since she is
    getting too arthritic to get the back of her neck by herself.  The
    kitten isn't as happy about being brushed (she's a Maine coon so she
    has long fur, but takes pretty good care of it by herself).
    
    /Charlotte
    

    Thanks.  We'll try the puff of air tactic (water on the nose would
    seem to require a total of more than two human hands), though I've
    always had success stroking the throat.
    
    Leslie

    
    
       Hi,
    
      I cat sit for someone and one of the cats was on medication. The
    owner showed me that one. 
    
       Hold the cat like you would a baby, one hand trying to hold the
    paws and body, the other arm the other end of the body , (hard to
    explain) but kinda like cradling a baby while giving a bottle , face
    up....  The cat will hold it's mouth tightly shut. Gently rub
    the side of it's mouth and it will meow, have the pill ready to toss
    in. Then hold the mouth shut, you won't cut off the air because
    you don't cover it's nose, just hold the mouth shut. When the cat
    has swallowed the pill, it'll try to lick it's chops, natural for
    cats after swallowing something. THEN, you know it's down. If for
    some reason the cat is smarter than the average bear, he'll spit
    it out immediately when you've sat him up.! 
    
       Aw boy, this was a blast. NOT!!!!!   But, what made it easier was
    the fact that it was done BEFORE the cat got it's meal. This way the
    cat was a little easier in handling because she was hungry. It got
    easier for me the morning I over slept and she woke me up with her
    meowing in my face. Then she hurried up and took the pill as quickly
    as possible because she was starving!
    
        Rosie

    I just approach the cat, bring my hands up so that I have my thumb
    on one side of the mouth and my index finger on the other.  Gently
    press the sides of the mouth in towards the teeth.  When the mouth
    opens I pop the pill in as far back as a can and then scratch the
    kitty's chin (he/she is usually looking up at me by that time) while
    I wait for him/her to swallow the pill.  This usually works great
    with all mine.  I do have two that are especially good about looking
    like the swallowed and then popping the pill out the side of their
    mouth, though so I have to watch them closely. 
    
    Giving liquids is always fun.  I just love turning my cats pink. :^)
    
    Jan

    I don't have to hold their mouths shut at all.  I just pop it in
    covered in butter and down it goes.
    
    Kirsty

    >Aw boy, this was a blast. NOT!!!!!   But, what made it easier was
    >the fact that it was done BEFORE the cat got it's meal. This way the
    >cat was a little easier in handling because she was hungry. It got
    
    One point; this isn't a general rule. Just like the pills we get at the
    pharmacy sometimes say "take with food", the same holds true for the
    pills we give our cats. For instance, Zoe's Tapazole must be given
    after she has had something to eat, or she will vomit, and not feel
    like eating after.
    
    Deb

    
      That certainly would make a difference. The medication was to be 
    taken before eating apparently and that's why it worked that way.
    
       Rosie