Conference misery::feline

    well, there are the infamous clock radios with alarm buttons on top.
    

    Yes, we have one of those, too...so some nights we have light AND music
    when we get home!
    
    (Our clock radio is ALSO a speaker phone, and they know what THAT
    button does, too!)
    
    K.C.

Oh yes, and watch those answering machines, too!  I was wondering how we could
possibly be at the end of the tape :-).

I'm not sure if I read this in here or not, but an obvious (?) solution to
many of these walk-on-the-buttons problems is to put the device in a box on its
side that is just a little larger than the device.  that way, you can still
fiddle with the buttons but the kitties can't do it as easily.

Jill

Article 5711 of rec.pets.cats:
Path: hollie.rdg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!rigel.econ.uga.edu!mills
From: mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Kitty: Visitor From Another Planet?
Message-ID: <1991Dec15.034720.26857@rigel.econ.uga.edu>
Date: 15 Dec 91 03:47:20 GMT
Sender: news@rigel.econ.uga.edu
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Lines: 59

I just wanted to share some things that my friend's cat has been doing, for
your amusement and to see if anyone else has similar stories.

My friend has two cats.  One, a 1 1/2 year-old spayed black shorthair named
Noxie, and a five-month-old grey tabby named Charcoala.

Noxie enjoys watching television.  In particular, she enjoys watching the
Weather Channel.  Many times have Dave (my friend) and I turned off the
TV after watching Star Trek or the Comedy Channel and left the apartment,
only to return to find the Weather Channel on, and two kitties sitting on
the sofa, paws tucked under their chests, watching it.

A couple of days ago, Dave called me at work.

"Kathi, thanks for cleaning the kitchen, but did you leave the kitchen
faucet running?"

"I didn't clean the kitchen, Dave.  I left the dishes piled on the counter
just as I found them, since it's your turn to do the dishes.  And no, I
didn't leave the water running."

"I came home from work and found Noxie on the counter, all the dishes pushed
into the sink, and the hot water running full blast!  You mean to tell me
MY CAT WAS DOING THE DISHES?"

I burst out laughing.  "Well Dave, take a hint, your kitchen needs to be
cleaned!"

So I called my mom, an office manager at a vet clinic, and told her the
story.  She already knew about Noxie watching TV, and everyone at the
office was quite amused by it.

Her reaction: "What IS Noxie?!  An alien from outer space??!!"

Today, Dave called me again at work.

"Kathi, when did you change my answering machine message?"

"I didn't change the message.  I don't know how to.  Why?"

"PLEASE TELL ME YOU CHANGED THE MESSAGE!!!!!!"

"Why, Dave?  What is the problem?"

"Listen to the message."  He played it, and the previous message had indeed
been replaced by what for all the world sounded like Charcoala meowing a 
conversation.  It was definitely Charcoala meowing, at any rate, for the
full thirty seconds.  "This is not some trick to convince me I'm losing
my mind, is it?"

"No, Dave, I swear I didn't change the message.  But this is getting scary!"

I swear these stories are true!  Have anyone else's cats demonstrated this
degree of intelligence?
-- 
"If I were human, I believe my response to that would be, 'Go to hell.'"
I speak for Kodak and all its subsidiaries.

Kathi Mills - mills%rolf.stat.uga.edu@marie.stat.uga.edu

    OK...time to pull out the heavy artillery...
    
    Tiki could read.
    
    For some unknown reason, Tiki loved to listen to Elton John, especially
    "Your Song", "Daniel", and "Candle In The Wind".  The fastest way to
    find Tiki if he was hiding was to play one of these songs...he would
    come out and listen.
    
    One time I just put out a bunch of tapes; all stored in the same area,
    all about the same age, just different groups, with just the side
    printing up (no pictures), and told Tiki to pick one.
    
    He looked at the tapes carefully, and put his paw right on "Elton
    John's Greatest Hits", looked up at me, and meowed.
    
    There are other examples, but that is the most glaring one.
    
    K.C.

If you have cats, you must give up on the idea of having:

	dried flower arrangements - no matter where you put them, the
	resident felines will get to the dried flowers....and they will
	dismantle the arrangement and throw dried flowers at each other
	in play....or they will bring them to you in the middle of the
	night, shoving them up your nose as you sleep.  Ask my roommate.
	She has finally given up on the dried flowers...Amanda did shove
	some up her nose the other night.  that was the final straw.

	exposed wool anything - unless kitten bite marks will enhance
	the design of said wool anything.

	aquarium with live fish - at least not until the kitten is
	MUUUUCH OLDER...a friend found his kitten swimming 4 days
	in a row before he declared defeat and sold the aquarium and
	fish.  All attempts to keep the kitten out only whetted his
	appetite for the challenge.

Note: some cats out there may leave these items alone in their homes...but
the odds are not good that you will find a cat like that for yourself.

    My dried flower arrangement seems to be safe where it is but my live
    plants...that is another story.  I can't tell you how many times I
    have repotted my Chinese Evergreen since Onyx came to live with us.
    My housewarming gift plant that hangs high from the ceiling is not
    safe either and the one remaining plant arrangement I have saved
    from my stint in the hospital is slowly biting the dust because 
    some cat (who shall remain nameless but whose name starts with an O)
    insists on pulling some parts out by the roots and decapitating the 
    rest.
    
    I'm down to 4 live plants which I keep having to resusitate and I'm
    thinking seriously about replacing them all with fake ones when the
    time comes.  I wonder if those silk plants that look pretty real
    would be any safer.
    
    Jan

    That's funny because my house is just the opposite.  I have alot
    of live plants (including catnip) that they don't touch...but
    I haad to give up on dried flowers years ago.  They tore them
    to shreds...or loved to sit in the middle of them.
    
    Helpful hint for big plant pots....just put some pinecones on
    top of the soil....and your cats won't go near it!
    
    Sandy
                                                      

    I have a lovely little silk fern that a friend made for me sitting on
    top of my stereo (looks very real) and my 2 furbs leave it alone.  The
    ONE time we had a real plant...demolition.
    
    We won't even TRY dried flowers!
    
    K.C.

    My mother in law gave us 3 very lovely floor plants years ago; 2 go
    right to the ceiling.  They have been fine for years but ever since
    Herbie and Taja came to live with us forget it.  They regard the plants
    as a nice, green salad!  Last night I cut so many shredded fronds off
    one of them it was amazing the plant still existed aftwards!!
    
    We also have several silk flower arrangements that don't get picked
    apart but are covered with fur.  Nice added touch!  Fuzzy flowers.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Well, I rec'd a Chia Tree/Pet and will be setting it up to
    start growing tonight.  It will be the first growing thing
    <indoors> that I have had!
    
    I can just picture it two weeks from now...
    
    "Mmmm....I love fresh sprouts, mum!  Purrrrr...CRASH!"
    
    L-

    Every plant is our house is shredded from the tip of the leaf to
    about 3-4 inches in. Mr. Miyagi just walked up, opens his mouth
    and closes it over the leaf and drags his teeth down till he gets
    to the end. NO amount of squirting, yelling, throwing things at
    him or stamping your feet will make his stop. We tried kitty greens
    and he pulled them out of the container and trampled them to nothing.
    He won't eat cooked/or raw veggie. Boy, talk about stubborn. We have
    just about given up.
    
    Silk arrangements in our house do very well. The cats don't try
    to pull them apart or rub against them. Some person I know in this
    notes file had a beautiful silk arrangement on her dining room table
    and her cats thought it was for their amusement to tear apart or lay
    around it. Nothing kept them away. No more arrangement on the table
    any more. These cats sure have us trained.
    
    The silk pants do look good but get dusty very easy and it shows
    more on them than it does with the silk flower.
    
    Barbara

    Thanks for the info on silks.  Just what I need, something else
    in the house that will collect dust and fur.  My allergist would
    kill me since dust/dustmites are my worst allergy and cats are
    around #3 or #4 on the list.  I guess I'm to have to be plantless
    here soon.
    
    The secret to having a dried flower arrangement is to have it on a
    tiny shelf so high and inaccessible that the most determined cat
    can't get to it.  Mine is on the very top shelf over my kitchen
    sink.  It takes up most of the shelf (its only about 1 foot wide
    by 2 feet in length) which does not provide anyplace for them to 
    jump to and is so high they can't reach it without jumping.  To 
    be honest, I'm not sure they've ever noticed it.  Onyx is constantly
    playing with the plants on the shelf below it though.
    
    Jan

    Hmm, Barbara, I just *know* you were referring to *me* as the "some
    person in this file"!!
    
    My new dinette centerpiece is a big, furry, Himalayan cat.  Quite
    elegant!  Now if only I could get him to stop moving around!!
    
    :^)
    
    -Roberta
    

    
    	I have a picture of this wonderful centerpiece while on
    	the table....he looks quite comfy!  =)
    

We usually have a Hemi centerpiece during dinner, and refer to her as one
when she's acting that way.  As long as she just lays there and watches us
eat, it's fine, and that's usually the case.  No one else is allowed on the
table, though, because they don't behave.  Oh, Hemi is also the one who jumps
on the bathroom counter to watch us brush teeth, etc. and play with the water.

Re plants:  Our dried arrangements are in the cat free zone (ie lavatory
with the door kept closed).  I threw away the artificial (silk?  I don't know..)
arrangement and bouquet when the critters destroyed them.   the spider plant
is in the shop (door stays closed).  The African violets, Christmas cactus (?)
and maybe something else are on a suspended shelf out of reach with no room
to jump on it.  So far, so good.  Everything else is dead or dying out on the
deck.  And I'm with whoever said they didn't need more dust collectors :-).

Jill

Yes Roberta,

I also have a picture of that adorable centerpiece on your dinnette 
table.

He's much nicer to look at then any flower arrangement I've seen.

Valerie

oh memories....for a six month period, my roommate attempted to usurp
Hannah's favorite resting spot, right in the middle of the dining room
table, by placing a nice flower (silk this time) arrangment in the spot.
Hannah would watch Marge adjust the flower arrangement to the center of
the table and walk away...Hannah would then jump on the table, shove the
offending flower arrangement to the edge of the table and settle in for
a nap.  Marge fought a brave battle, but Hannah KNEW the table was her
spot, and she was not willing to give it up, so the end result was ordained.
Marge has now given up on such silliness -- when Hannah gets bored with
a spot, it is then available for decorating as we choose....but, until then,
Hannah determines the decorating touches.  The house is much easier on us
all now that the rules are known.

Cats can have difficult in training humans...we often don't pay enough
attention...fortunately, the average cat is VERY patient with his/her
humans.

    Dried flower arrangements aren't bothered TOO much.  But sometimes
    I'll get home and find a stem or two on the floor.
    
    The big thing is the remote for the TV--it stays in a drawer when
    we're alseep or gone.  Otherwise we get complaints from the manager
    (who lives below us) that we have our TV/stereo too loud during the
    day.

    If I put a plate of onions down in front of these guys, I bet
    not one of them would touch it, but just let me put my chive 
    plants up on the refridgerator and voila! open season!  I have
    the only chive plants in the neighborhood with a crewcut. They
    don't believe me when I tell them they are onions, not kitty 
    greens....
    
    I also grew the kitty greens in the little plastic tub - my
    little quaterback Dream used pull the whole plant out and fling 
    it around the kitchen.  I came home from work one night and found
    big dirt smudges where the plant had hit the fridge and three of
    the kitchen cabinets after being flung, and waaayyy over in the corner
    was this sorry looking, mushy lump of green stuff. Thus endth 
    the kitty greens.  I mercifully disposed of them in the trash.
    
    Mary-Michael, Misha, Dream, Mips and Belle

    This is a morbid question...but I have to ask:
    
    	Does anyone know where you can obtain a casket/coffin for a cat in
        the Fitchburg/Worcester area?  I have seen them in cat magazines...
        but would prefer not to have to mail away for one or make one
        ourself. (too depressing)  Do the bigger pet stores carry them?
     
    In case your wondering why I ask....I'm just trying to prepare myself.
    Sasquatch is doing great...he is starting to trust us...and has shown
    interest in keeping himself nice and clean.   He is still eating alot..
    I swear he has already put on weight...and last night we even got
    him to play a bit!!  He is a love....
    
    Sandy
                                                                       

    Sandy, what I did for my Pussycat when he died from feLV was line
    the inside of a Xerox box with some things he liked to sleep on.  I
    buried him deeply enough so that animals couldn't dig it up.  I know
    this box will decay away in time, but actually I think that is perhaps
    better since we're all from the earth, to the earth.
    

    Sandy,
    
    When AJP, Esq. passed away, I had him buried at an MSCPA cemetary
    (Nevin Hill in Methuen,MA). The plot (which holds five cats, burial and
    casket was $450; however, if you purchase the plot before the need
    arises and then do a subsequent burial (which includes a casket), then
    you save $50. The brochure they gave me had a breakdown of cost, but I
    don't have it any more.
    
    You might want to ask your vet for a referral to a pet cemetary near
    you, or give Nevin Hill a call (they are in the phone book, and they
    are hooked up with Angell Memorial)
    
    You are wise to try to do this ahead of time. Up until Argus's first
    cardiac arrest, I wouldn't even face the fact that I could was going to
    loose him, and I was so unprepared I nearly lost it.
    
    I hope everything turns out all right for Sasquatch.
    Deb

    Karen...even though I do agree with you...my hubby REFUSES to use a 
    cardboard box.   Somebody sent me a note off-line about cremation....
    does anyone have an idea of the cost?  I had heard a rumor that it
    was about $100.
    
    God...what a subject!!
    

    Deb....thanks for the info.
    
    We thought about buring him in a cemetary with all other animals...
    but we figured we found him in the woods behind my house...we want 
    his final resting spot to be there too!
    
    The more I think about it...the more I like the cremation and spreading
    his ashes in his favorite spot...which is on top of the hill...looking
    over my house.  If anyone has any specific info on cremation...like
    cost or how long it takes...please send it to me off-line so we
    don't bum out the whole notesfile!
    
    Sandy  
    

    The vets usually charge for creamation by the weight of the animal.
    I don't think there is a cost difference for dogs and cats. I paid
    $43.00 for my $45 lbs. dog. So it should be very little cost for a 
    cat. 
    
    As for burrying the pet in your garden, I know around our area, NH
    there are a lot of home that have dug whells (sp?), wouldn't you
    potentially be contaminating their water?
    
    Shaw

    Sandy,
    
    I had Michaela creamated .. Dr. Mulcahey actually sent her body to be
    creamated.  The charge was $25 if you just wanted your cat creamated
    with a number of others, and you got a portion of those ashes (not all
    your cat, probably) or it was $50 if you wanted your cat done
    separately.  
    
    You are returned the ashes in a nice little tin.
    
    Holly
    

    Sandy, you could call your vet and ask about the cost and time it
    takes.
    

    My dad had his dog of 15 years, Buttons, cremated.  Since we didn't
    live with my dad, buttons was his child.  He collected wire haired fox
    terrier animals, prints, figurines...Buttons is in a nice silver tin in
    a curio cabinet with her tags and a picture of her.  Kind of like a
    little shrine.

    Jo Ann had Jesse James cremated.  If I remember correctly the cost
    (here in Calif.) was $65-75 for him to be cremated alone instead of
    with other cats.  They provided a nice (sealed) wooden box with a 
    plaque listing his name and some other information.  We had to take
    his body to a vet is Los Gatos to have this done.  (How appropriate
    that we had to go to a vet in "The Cats".)
    
    Jan

         We had Fluffy created (separately).  Because he died at Tufts, we
    had Tufts do it; they provided a beautiful marble urn.  Cost was $100,
    3 years ago.
    
    					- Andrea

    Dr Damitz of Nashoba Valley Vet Hospital in Westford, MA invented an item 
    several years back that is called "The Bury Box".  It has since been
    marketed by several Vet supply wholesalers. Many pet owners prefer to
    bury their pets at home and the invention was an effort to find
    something low in cost and environmentally safe that could be used to
    release the deceased in a way that might be more tasteful and less
    upsetting to the owner than a trash bag or empty carton.
    
    "The Bury Box' is made out of coated biodegradeable cardboard, comes in
    several sizes and has a place for writing things such as name, date,
    etc.  While not elegant, it is neat and practical and designed
    especially for the purpose...
    
    Linda
    
                       

    
    	Well for lack of a better place to put this (mods, if there
    	is one, please feel free to move it)..
    
    	I've decided to switch my fuzzfaces to Science Diet Light.  I
    	bought a small trial size type bag of it at the vets and they
    	love it.  My question is, where's the cheapest place to buy 
    	it in the Nashua area?  (Nashua, Hudson, Hollis, Londonderry etc)
    
    	Thanks!
    
    	JJ
    

Hmmm....I buy the 10# bag at National Pet for $15.98.  I can't remember what
Food For Pets charges, but I believe it's close.  I don't like to drive that
far out on 101A just for cat food.  Now, if I have to go to Wal_Mart.......

Mary

    
    Really wasn't sure where to put this note...so this is where it ended up!!
    I don't need advice...but just have a question!
    
    Have you ever heard of a cat being a MIDGET???  At the Pat Brody
    Shelter we have this 9 month old kitten that looks like she
    is about 10 weeks old.   This little lady..named Midget (of course)
    has had a rough start in life but appears to be doing great...but
    she is so small!!   She still uses a kleenix box as a hideway...that
    is how small she is!!  
    
    She came to the shelter in a litter and all of her littermates
    were normal size.  When she was about 6 weeks old we realized her
    littermates were outdoing her in everything...and as they grew 
    she just remained very small.   She has had extensive tests at
    both our vets...and she has also been up to see Dr. Shunk the
    specialist in NH.   All vets cannot find any problems other then
    she was infested with worms...which has been treated!
    
    When she was about 4 months...she caught a very bad virus which
    we almost lost her.   She had to be force fed for about 2 months...
    and she spent most of her time laying on a heating blanket in
    front of a vaperorizer!!  She has miraculously pulled through 
    this thanks to Priscilla who took very good care of her....
    
    So right now she is running around like a small kitten...appears
    to be healthy...and still has the vets stumped!!!   
    
    So has anyone ever heard of a Midget cat??  If so please share
    your experiences???  We have so many folks rooting for this little
    girl and we pray someday she will be adoptable!!  She will be unique!!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    
    About 25 years ago (ok, guess my age...) I was owned by a group of 5
    cats, three from the same litter.  Of those three (offspring of my
    girlfriend's cat; together we had 8 cats) the "runt of the litter"
    was a tiny black female who got named Puny.  She was perfect in all
    respects except her size.  She never got any bigger than kitten size.
    
    So I guess it happens occasionally, though I haven't seen it happen since
    then.
    
    len.
    

    Sandy, if there's nothing physically wrong with her why is she not
    adoptable now?  

    
    Well...since she has been so sick..and she is so small she is
    still being watched very careful by Priscilla and also being
    monitored by the vets to ensure the internal organs are 
    working properly!!
    
    The shelter won't let her go until she gets a clean bill of
    health from the vet....as well as being spayed! (that is if...
    they can even spay her)
    
    She's so darn cute....her little legs look like toothpicks..
    her ears are bigger then her body....she has no tail...
    and she sure is full of life!!!!   She sure will make
    a wonderful unique pet..are we interested Cheryl!!!!!   
    She's probably the size of Chub's foot!!!!
    
    Sandy
    
    
    

    Could be she has the same thing as a child who stops growing?
    
    (I don't remember the disease, but Gary Coleman, the actor had
    it?)

    
    My lilacpoint male is a bit of a dwarf :^}  He was also the runt of his
    litter, and very sick as a kitten.  When we adopted him at 9 weeks old,
    he was about the size of a 4-week-old kitten.  He'll be two years old
    in July, and still isn't as big as my girls - probably weighs about 7
    pounds.  His eyes and ears still seem a bit outsize for the rest of
    him, but he seems fine otherwise.
    
    Sandy (& Spike, who needed a name to live up to)
    

    I have a friend who has a cat who never grew.  She also never got more
    than 2 top teeth and 2 bottom teeth.  Very healthy in all other
    respects, doesn't seem any more or less intelligent that any other cat
    (how one figures hat out, I don't know.  But I figure I'd know an
    intellectually-challenged cat if I saw one : ).  She is still the
    cutest little kitty, even though she's about 10 years old now.
    Sarah

    Yah! Cheryl! You could sneak this one in, and Bill wouldn't even
    notice! ;-) 
    
    She sounds wonderful! Will I get to meet her when I come for the
    workshop? Sounds like she WILL fit in my pocket! Hmmm.... ;-) Nope,
    can't do it. I was told that if I bring home another cat, I'll have to
    move to the shelter! 
    
    Now, if I can go to the PBS, it's a deal! ;-)
    
    Yonee
    

    I used to trade catsitting duties with my neighbor. She had a 13 year
    old female that was the smallest cat I'd ever seen. The cat was
    perfectly healthy and active and cute. I'd always remark on how small
    she was while my neighbor thought mine were giants. One of mine could
    be considered large framed, but he's just 15 pounds and very sleek. The
    other I consider average.  I think the neighbor got the short end of
    the deal when he did the litter box cleaning at my house.
    
    
    NancyS

    
    Well if little Midget ever reachs 7 lbs it will be a true
    miracle.  when she was 3 months old...she only weighed
    3/4 of a pound and my guess is now she might weigh 3 lbs
    if she is lucky!!!!  But what a little spitfire!!
    
    Thanks for sharing your stories....I put this note in
    to find out if there was such a thing as Midget Cats...
    but I also received a note from a possible adopted Mom 
    wanting to take Midget home when she is available!!!  
    What a great notesfile!!!
    
    Sandy
    

    Sandy,
    
     Was it Cheryl? ;-)
    
    Yonee

    nope...it was Debbi J!!  (new to feline...and I have known
    her for many years)  The good news is Deb lives in Leominster
    so it is close enough for an occasional visit from Aunt Sandy!!
    
    Sandy

    Actually, I think Chubs could accidentally hurt such a tiny little cat
    cause he's enormous and rather a klutz (not to mention, he's not the
    brightest bulb of the lot!)
    
    Let's locate a cat in March for me to sneak home.  My honey is going
    back to the Orient so here's my chance!!!!   He'll never know!  It's
    gotta be long haired though cause those leave the most hair around the
    house. :^)

    
    Hi Sandy,
    
    Hey Yonee, didn't we have a cat at the shelter that was pretty small?
    Cleopatra or something?  Remember her?  Sandy, I swear this cat was
    4-5 pounds soaking wet and the most lovable, adorable thing.  She
    found a home right away....
    
    N
    
    P.S.  WRong note, but congrats to VG on his anniversary!  The old
    warrior!

    Hi,
    
     Cleopatra was pretty small, but I think she was still pretty young. 
    
     Dee, who came to the shelter with her two little ones, Lisa and
    Caruso, still looked like a kitten after she had already had kittens!
    She was smaller than both of her kittens in no time. She also went to
    a good home, as well as her kittens.
    
    These two don't sound nearly as small as Midget though!
    
     Yonee
    

    I wouldn't call Pip a "midget" but she is tiny; her weight fluctuates
    between 4.5  and 5 lbs. Of course, because she is so fluffy, she looks
    a lot bigger than she is. (Oh, she is almost 13 years old, and has been
    this tiny all her life, and I might add, has been very healthy while
    under my care)
    
    Deb

    Belle weighs in at about 5 lbs.  She had a lot of problems
    as a kitten which may have contributed to her small size.
    She plays harder and jumps higher than any of her siblings
    though!
    
    Mary-Michael

               <<< WRO10C::USER$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FELINE.NOTE;1 >>>
           -< Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected >-
================================================================================
Note 84.52                   FELINErs Advice Column                     52 of 52
WMOIS::DABY_A                                        14 lines  22-JUL-1993 09:35
                            -< CAT OWNER WANNABE! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am thinking of adding a cat to my family.  However, having never  
    owned a cat, I have some questions:
    
    -  What is the difference between a male and female cat (besides the
       obvious ; ) )?
    -  Are there any cats that don't shed a lot?
    -  How or can you train a cat?
    -  How do I know the cat is for me (looking for a quiet one)?
    -  Etc., etc., and anything else you think could help!
    
    Thanks in advance...
    
    Alice
    

    
    I'll take a shot at answering your questions:
    
        -  What is the difference between a male and female cat (besides the
           obvious)?
    
    	   Males tend to be larger and more territorial.  The territory
    	   thing can sometimes turn into a problem, with marking.
    
    	   Unspayed females go into heat, which can be trying for both you
    	   and the cat.  While both sexes should be altered as early as
    	   possible  (my vet recommends 6 months for females, 8 months for
    	   males), the unaltered state is far more obvious in females.
    
    	   I've lived with both male and female cats for long times, and
    	   never noticed any real temperamental or behaviour differences
    	   other than these.
     
        -  Are there any cats that don't shed a lot?
    
           Well, obviously, the hairless breeds like the Sphynx.  But
    	   shedding is manageable if you groom the cat regularly (my own
    	   Merlin will almost grovel to be combed).  If you like to dress
    	   in "basic black", don't get a white Persian...
    
        -  How or can you train a cat?
    
           Cats very clearly learn, but I'm not sure you can train them.
    	   Cats exhibit a wide spectrum of intelligence, from a bit smarter
    	   than a rock to deviously clever.  I think some cats are smart
    	   enough to "play dumb". so they don't raise your expectations of
    	   them.  Remember that a domestic cat fundamentally lives only to eat,
    	   sleep, play and be petted.  This is pretty much my idea of
    	   paradise, which may be why I love and respect these animals so
    	   much.
    
        -  How do I know the cat is for me (looking for a quiet one)?
    
           How do you know anyone is for you?  It's chemistry.  When you
    	   have been chosen, you will know.  You won't be able to resist.
    	   If the quality or intensity of your relationship with your cat
    	   is important for you, hold out for the cat that you *KNOW*
    	   viscerally you can't live without.  But play hunches too,
    	   sometimes it's not love at first sight and the bond flowers with
    	   time and experience.
    
    	   If you want a quiet cat, look to adopt a grown up cat.  Kittens
    	   are constitutionally incapable of quietude.   A grown (year or
    	   more old) cat will have a track record that you can rely on. 
    
        -  Etc., etc., and anything else you think could help!
    
    	   There are many good books about living with cats, more than just
    	   enumeration of the breeds.  The best I've ever found is "The
    	   Complete Book of the Cat", a large format paperback which you
    	   should be able to find in any large bookstore.  I can look up
    	   author and ISBN stuff for you; I think there may be a "Cat Books"
    	   topic elsewhere in this conference.
    
    len (servant to 18 year old Merlin and 18 week old Rocky, Robin Bandit
    and Blueberry Snowflake).

    
    Take yourself to a local cat shelter, sit down among the 
    many kittens and cats, and if you can handle the attention
    you will get, (8  let your cat pick you!

    I have trained my cat to do the following
    	1. come when I call him (85% of the time)
    	2. not jump on kitchen counters
    	3. Respect our furniture
    He has trained me to the do the following
    	1. wake up between 5 an 6am to let  him out. If I dont get up
    its time to bat on the vertical blinds. Before that he would knock
    over the telephone, but I changed phones and he found the blinds.
    Who says cats are not smart!
    	2.  To make sure one of our sinks are filled with water at
    all times. The bowl by the food will not do
    	3. To only feed him premium food (maxcat)
    	4. To give him tummy rubs when he rolls on his back
    	5. To let him out when he trys to turn the door handle.
    	6. Spoil him rotten
    

that's a 2 to 1 ratio, sounds good to me!

p (missing Tiger (16+ years old), Bitsy (6+), and Mr. Mestopholes (3 months
old)) 

    Re .55  Regarding the water bowl vs the sink.  I have found that the
    *kids* drink a lot more water from bowls that we have in other places
    in the house, away from the food.  That might solve the water in the
    sink.  Misty always used to knock the plastic drinking cup into the
    bathroom sink to let me know she wanted water.  Since we put a water
    bowl in the dressing area, she hasn't asked for the sink to be filled. 
    She does ask for a taste of my bread each morning (and gets it).  
    
    I agree, cats train us better than we train them. ;-)
    
    Steffi

	There's a note here about Cornish and Devon REX's

	Both have less hair than "normal", particularly the Devon Rex, and
	don't shed noticeably.

	If you are worried, don't get a long-haired cat, as their hair will be 
	more noticeable.

	At the end of the day............if you see a cat you like, all thoughts
	of this go out of the window!

	I second the idea of going to a shelter to see the range of size, age,
	and temperament. You're sure to find a cat you like, you will be giving
	it a good home, and making room for another in the shelter.


	Heather

    Need some advice here...
    
    We have a wide screen tv with a cloth-covered speaker across the
    bottom. It has been sprayed with urine leaving a stain on the cloth
    across the entire width of the tv. I've tried using a damp cloth and a 
    spot remover (like dry cleaning fluid), but the outline of the stain
    returns once its dry. There isn't an odor. My husband is making some
    very threatening remarks toward the cat that did this. I really need to
    make this stain go away. I can't take that cloth panel off the tv. Any
    suggestions?
    
    NancyS
    
    p.s.
    Due to a previous injury this cat can't squat very well and his litter
    box is surrounded by a larger box to help keep this contained. During a
    recent illness, he didn't make it to the litterbox. Unfortunately, he
    choose my husband's new, expensive tv as his target. 

    
    
    	You'll probably need to try something that is an
    	enzyme cleaner.  Nature's Miracle is one.... it
    	can be bought at a vet's office or pet supply stores.
    	I believe this removes the stains as well as the smell.
    	You may think it doesn't smell but without the enzyme 
    	some of the urine odor will remain.  Your cat may continue
    	to use this spot from time to time because it's a "marked"
    	territory.
    
    	JJ
    

	Can you phone the manufacturer and ask about the possibility
	of replacing the cloth?

	Heather    

    Wizard is at the vet today getting checked out to see why he continues
    to avoid the litterbox and just lays around all the time. Right now,
    I'm more worried about him than the stain.
    When I get a chance I'll see if I can find an enzyme cleaner to see if
    that works. Thanks for the suggestions.
    
    NancyS

    A stray once 'claimed' one of my hi-fi speakers for his own. I ended up
    re-colouring it black with a large felt-tip pen!
    
    Andy

    I like the idea in .63 !!
    
    I did get some stuff called Out!  There wasn't much choice at this
    particular store. I used it last night before I went to bed and forgot to 
    check it this morning. The cat got a whiff of it and ran out of the
    room. Maybe it will, at least, encourage him to find another target. If 
    this doesn't work, I'm going to a pet store to see what I can find. 
    Then, I'll go get a supply of magic markers.
    
    Thanks for the idea.
    NancyS

Hi, I'm new to this file and am looking at adopting 2 cats, 1 1/2 yrs
old female longhairs.  I'm looking at advise to make the transition
easier for them and us.  I did a quick look through keywords and didn't
have much luck ("adoption" seemed to be mainly advocating it, not saying
how to do it!  8-).  The current owners are heartbroken, but the woman
has definite allergies.  The man wants visistation rights (they're friends
of ours!).  They're scheduled to come over tomorrow night (tuesday) after
a defleaing.

I haven't had cats before.  My wife has as a kid.  My 15 mo old son hasn't.
I'm looking at putting the litter box & food/water behind a kid gate barrier.
We have kid gates on the stairs, so the cats can easily get away from my
son if they care to jump the gate.

Advise I think I need is on how to acclimate them to the new house & people.
We visted them yesterday, and they're friendly & "adult" (ie no wild romping
that I saw).  They seem to spend a lot of time outdoors, how do I get them
to recognize us & the different house, so they'll come back?  If keeping them
indoors is necessary, how do I keep them from going crazy, as they seem to
spend alot of time outside?

Any advise for dealing with a 15 mo. old?  They've seen kids before, but
haven't lived with one.  He sees cats at daycare, and they tend to stay 
clear of him from what I'm told.

Feel free to offer other advise.

Charlie

    Try to keep them indoors at first and then slowly with supervision let
    them out, probably one at a time. Cats are territorial and will tend
    to try to find a familiar place.  If they are out right away their
    first instinct will be to find their old home. Not only do they have
    a new home, but they also have new people to contend with.  Let them
    get used to you and the family first, and then slowly put them outside
    with you or whomover they are most comfortable with going with them.
    
    As far as a young child, I dont have one but many people I know do.
    Try to teach the child to not pull the cats tails and teach them to
    put them gently.  Also, the cats will probably try to stay as far
    away from the child as possible.
    
    Hope this all helps
    

    Great advice in -1. Of course we all have to add our two cents! ;-) I
    would advise that you try to acclimate them to be inddor only. I have
    indoor/outdoor cats, and wish I could keep them indoor only, because of
    all the nasty stuff they have to contend with outdoors these days.
    Rabies being the number one thing on my list of scary things.
    
    Having two cats in the first place is perfect, as they can keep one
    another company. Have plenty of interactive toys available to work off
    excess energy which would normally be used up outside. This will halp
    with the transition.
    
    Baby gates are a great thing to help them stay away from the baby if
    they feel the need, and it will also keep baby out of the litter pan!
    8-} 
    
    If at all possible, it's always nice if one room in the house can be
    designated 'theirs'. Sort of like a safe polace that they can run to if
    they feel the need. My shelter recommends this, even for cats that have
    definitely been pets before coming to the shelter. Sometimes too much
    space at tonce can overwhelm them, and they decide to live under or
    behind furniture. 
    
    Try not to change the diet they have been getting at their present
    home. At least not right away, and even then, do it gradually. They wll
    be under stress with the home change, and the people change. No need to
    stress their tummies even more by a new diet. They can get loose stools
    real easy.
    
    Other than that, just talk to them a lot, and pet and fuss over them as
    much as they will allow, and then maybe just a bit more if they are
    VERY timid, but let them adjust pretty much on their own terms, and you
    will soon have very loving furfaces demanding ALL of your time, and
    telling you you to ignore that small human that lives in THEIR house!
    ;-)
    
    Please enter updates on their (and your) progress! We all love that
    kind of story!
    
    I'm sure there will be many more entries to this note. Don't let it
    overwhelm you. I'm sure it will all be good stuff. Just take it all in
    slowly, and all will be well. Good luck! Don't forget the introductions
    and stories! None of us will think your nuts, believe me! 8-)
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee

>    Try to keep them indoors at first and then slowly with supervision let
>    them out, probably one at a time. Cats are territorial and will tend

Any words to the wise as to how long "at first" is?  I assume longer than
hours and shorter than months...  8-)

I think the "former parents" might get understandably upset if we lost them
right away...

I haven't seem any cats in our neighborhood at all.  Guess that doesn't
mean they're not around.  Only a small limping dog that isn't likely to
be a problem for them.

Charlie

    I second Yonee's suggestion to keep them indoors permanently.  You
    mentioned that they are being defleaed.  If you keep them indoors,
    chances are good that they will not have fleas and your house will be
    fles-free.  Cats do adjust to being indoors only and it is so much
    safer for them.  Please consider it.
    
    Steffi

    Agree to -1.
    Nat

Since someone requested an update...

The cats came over last night, with their mom & dad for dinner.  The cats
stayed.  They were groggy, just having been anethetized so they could be
flea dipped.  This probably helped them not pannic.

All seems to be going well so far.  My (now) 16 mo son keeps saying
"waz zat?" and pointing to the beasts.  The cats are quite friendly, although
I think they're confused.  They somehow got into our room this morning (I
closed the door figuring *I*'d sleep better) and one got her little head
under my wife's hand trying to be petted.  My wife could only giggle.

Charlie

    Charlie,
    
     Sounds like you're off to a great start! The fact that one of them
    came looking for attention already, instead of hiding under/behind the
    couch, is wonderful! I'm sure they'll adjust to your home (Their home!)
    very quickly!
    
     Please keep us updated, and don't forget the cute stories, like the
    one where the kitty was trying to pet herself with your wife's hand!
    
     Love,
    
     Yonee