Conference misery::feline

    Nat...glad to see your still around...we hadn't heard from your
    for awhile.
    
    Please keep you eye on you wound...I do know of a person that
    got bit in the hand and ended up with blood poisoning.   If you
    see the red line going up your arm....call the Dr immediately.
    
    Your kitty is probably very territorial and feels threatened by
    this new cat.  I have eight cats that get along great...and one
    kitty that will not even tolerate another cat in sight!!
    
    Sandy

    Send mail to Larry Magoon if you care to know details of what can
    happen to a human body after being bitten by a cat.  He has hospital
    bills to prove it!  Larry - you out there?
    Good to see that you are still with us, Nat!

    nat, as long as you let the wound bleed, even by squeezing it, that
    will hasve helped.  Whenever I have been bitten by a cat, I do this and
    use Betadine or a povidone solution for disinfecting the site. One time
    I was layed open quite badly and was afraid to go anywhere for fear of
    needing stitches.  Anyway, I kept it clean with Betadine and bandages
    and am none the worse other than a scar.  I have gone and updated my
    Tetanus shots though!!!  Another breeder I know (not well enough to
    state their cleanliness habits) was bitten in the leg and ended up in
    the hospital.  It infected and swelled so badly she had to use
    crutches.  I even think she had to stay in the hospital.  Her leg is
    pretty gross to look at now!!! Just be careful and don't take bites to
    lightly.
    Karen (who knows better than to turn her head at bath time!)

    Ho, we're scaring Nat to death.  First off, I don't mess with one of my
    cats when they've really wigged out at an "invader."  They seem to
    bit anything in sight when they're in that state, so I just let them
    calm down.  Secondly, yes, a cat bite can be serious, but I think
    that's pretty rare, and I'd just keep an eye on it unless there's some
    reason, like it's quite deep, or seems to need stitches or some such,
    or you have reason to suspect it might get infected.
    
    My guess is the invader cat isn't altered.  You might have a chat with
    it's owners about that.
    

Last year, the evening before Thanksgiving Day, a cat bit me on one of my hands,
just barely breaking the skin. When I woke up the next morning my hand was sore,
and felt as though I'd been hit with a hammer. I figured it was just bruised. We
drove about 100 miles from home for Thanksgiving Dinner. By late afternoon there
were red streaks going up my arm, my hand was quite sore and swollen, and I was
starting to feel very tired and sick. By the time we got home the streaks were
nearly to my shoulder. I went to the hospital. The nurse told the doctor, who
had not yet seen me, that he'd need to admit me. He told her he didn't believe
so, not for a mere cat bite. As soon as he saw my hand he had me admitted. This
was almost exactly 24 hours after I received the bite. I stayed in the hospital
overnight, and was on intravenous antibiotics for four days. My hand still hurts
slightly in the area where I was bitten.

The cat which bit me is a healthy, strictly indoor cat. The doctor said that the
infection was caused by a bacteria which is very common in cat saliva, and that
my infection was extremely rare. In healthy people it only occurs when the
bacteria get into an area which is isolated from the immune system and get well
established before the immune system can begin attacking. That's what happened
to me. He also said that if I'd taken a few more hours in getting treatment that
I probably would have died because the infection would have spread to my heart,
causing the valves to swell so badly that my heart couldn't pump any more.

The moral of this is that if red streaks start radiating out from the bite,
don't wait a second. Get medical treatment immediately.

Larry

Larry,

I'm wondering... did you do anything to clean the bite, i.e, alcohol, hydrogen
peroxide? If you didn't clean the bite, did the doctor say that this would have
help prevent it from occuring? 

Laura - who's wondering because my kitty loves to play bite.

    
          My crazy Tabby, may he rest in peace,  went into a frenzy once,
    oh this about 15 years ago now.  he got out accidently and did not want
    to come in......well he bit me, my boyfriend, and my Mom who had all
    tried to help me catch him.  We all ended up at the hospital with
    hands swelled up like ballons.  The problem was that they were deep
    puncture wounds.  Puncture wounds are some of the worst you can get as
    far as risking an infection.  Luckily, we were all treated with
    antibiotics early enough to avoid any problems.  I have been bitten 
    deeply since then, and had absolutley nothing happen.  Just keep the
    wound clean.  Soaking helps an awful lot.  If it is a deep puncture
    wound, keeping it open so it can drain (soaking) will be very
    important.  Like the others said, any red-streaks, extreme swelling,
    pain,  see the doc!

    Well okay, thank you all for the advices. It is now abt 40 hours since
    then. The bite is a scar on one side and a deep puctual wound in my
    palm just under the thumb. It bleeded out quite right, I desinfected it
    immediately with after-shave (it burned like hell...). Of course it
    makes pain even now, but I can move my hand much better than yesterday.
    I know the symptome and danger of red stripes (my mom is an
    ambulanter-doc, aka butcher :), she told me not to worry just keep
    an eye on it).
    
    You all suggested me all that I've done or intend to, so I am greatly
    comforted to have done all I could and that your experiences show the
    same. I am really sorry for you, Larry. And I am very happy you all
    wrote warm words of having me back here (I was on vaca). I love friends
    and I did not know I have so much of you...
    
    Nat :*)

I did immediately wash and disinfect the wound area thoroughly. The doctor said
that in cases like mine doing so is a good idea but will not prevent the
infection because there is no way to get to the bacteria except through the
bloodstream. The main reason for this was that the bacteria got in through a
very tiny puncture wound.

Thanks for the sympathy, Nat. I'm glad you didn't get a serious infection.

Larry

    Today I can use my right hand almost problemless. I hope that my luck
    and your all good thoughts helped me to avoid an infection. Thanks all
    again.
    
    Nat (and Smokey who seems to know what she did, for she is even more
    loving than ever...)

    My daughter and I have a cat which we have had since it was 8 weeks
    old.  It is now 1 year old.  It is a neutered male.  The problem with
    the cat is that it bites, viciously, for no apparent reason.  My
    daughter or I might be walking past it and it will bite our
    legs/ankles, or it could be sitting on your lap getting patted, purring
    as loudly as can be, then it will turn on you and bite.  This has
    happened many times.  We have taken it to the vets for a hormone shot
    that they said may calm it down.  It didn't work.
    
    I'm at the point where I am ready to take it to the humane society and
    hope it gets adopted.  Otherwise the vet suggested I have it put to
    sleep.  I would rather not have the cat put to sleep but don't know
    what to do anymore. 
    
    Has anyone experienced this kind of behavior before? 
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Andrea
       

    
          My Tabby used to be a terrible biter - I think there is a note
    in here about it - but he outgrew it around 1 year old.  He was savage,
    attacking ankles, wrists,  I was relieved when he stopped.  He was
    fixed as well.  Maybe your kitty will outgrow it as well.  Does he get
    enough play time?  Is his behavior discouraged (usually a strong NO!,
    or maybe squirting)?
    
          good luck, Denise

    I don't know what happened to a note I saw in here earlier today
    but it concerned a cat who lunged at ankles etc., and the noter
    was contemplating putting him down.
    
    I once had a cat like that - what we found was that he couldn't
    stand being inside all the time - or actually any of the time.
    When he wanted to be outside - he wanted outside then and there!!
    He would pounce on legs and ankles really hard - scratches
    and bites.
    
    We ended up finding a home for him at a barn where he still saw
    humans (as he did like to be patted some of the time - but on his
    terms only) but at the barn he wasn't confined within 4-walls.
    He was just a cat who wanted to be outside.
    
    David (the cat) wasn't wild - he just preferred being outside.
    
    Pat
    

    My mother's siamese did bite like the cat mentioned here, with no
    reasons. He grew it out at about the age of 1 1/2 and does it not any
    more. If you have the patience, wait. Please do not put the kitty down:
    cats are wild animals and behave like that! If you cannot bear it, find
    a new home for the cat: the idea in -1 seems to be a very good one.
    
    Nat, the bitten

    My cat does in fact prefer to be outside.  But as we live in a condo
    and live very close to the highway, I have to keep him inside.  When we
    go up north to my parents' place I let him outside from time to time.  
    
    I think I will wait till the end of the year and see whether he gets
    any better.  If he is still biting then I think I will see about
    placing him in a home where he can be let out to play.
    
    I really like this cat and would rather not have to put him down.  My
    daughter also likes having a pet around.  I am nervous about getting
    another cat if this one doesn't work out.  
    
    Thanks for all the input.  It has helped.  
    
    Andrea
    

    Sometimes cats do this when they're bored.  A companion cat or more
    attention might help.
    

    Well, I am alive and it seems to be keeping so for a while yet.
    
    But my Smokey gets crazy if she sees the neighbour cat. Even through
    two windows, she jumps against the glass, nearly hurting herself,
    bushes her fur like a brush and ... yes... funny it may seem ...
    erm... she BARKS. Never heard a sound like that from a cat.
    
    Anyway, she is friendly to any other cat, she tolerates any other cat
    jumping even on the windowsill from outside, EXCEPT THIS ONE.
    
    Now help me folks, I consulted the neighbours, they are sorry, but they
    cannot do anything for the black&white invader is an outdoor cat, so
    they cannot keep her away from my window (they have an eye on her, but
    they can not watch her all the time). Is there any idea of some spray
    or tomato juice or ANYTHING I can spray outside my home to keep this cat
    away? It must be totally harmless, but a cat should hate its odor so
    that she does not come to us any more? Something like anticatnip...
    
    
    	Nat  :^)  :^(

    Re: .17
    
    I forget -- is the "invader cat" neutered?  If not, that would help. 
    You might try squirting the invader with water.
    

    Re: 1 year old biting cat
    
    The cat needs to be taught that biting is socially unacceptable
    behavior.  The best way to do that without inciting more violence (such
    as spanking, swatting, etc. would do) from the cat, but still letting
    him know that his behavior is unacceptable, would be to immediately put
    the cat into a cat carrier or bathroom by himself, to cool off. 
    Separating him from you, your daughter, and the situation for a short
    time *every single time that he bites* may make an impression on him.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Jo 

    re. .18
    She is not neutered, and probably won't be. They do not want it. And we
    are not *as good* neighbours that I could talk into this matter...
    
    Nat 

    Nat...try using the garden hose!  Keep it close by the window...
    and she will sooner or later get the hint that she will get blasted
    if she comes near.
    
    Sandy

    First I had to look up the garden hose in a dictionary. :^) Then I
    found out, that:
    
    A bit difficult to use a garden hose in a closed, third-floor flat with
    no garden at all, but I try with a shower flask (which functionates as
    a garden hose for the 3 plants on my windowsill). Last time she was
    here she got a vodka-glass of tapwater midst the ears (of course I
    apologized, too). Since then she was not here...
    
    Nat

    Nat...what do you call garden hoses...just curious?  
    
    I guess living on the third floor makes my suggestion impossible!!
    But the shower flasks sounds like a great idea!!  I can just picture
    you hanging out the window letting kitty have it...and somebody down
    below opens their window.  SURPRISE...what a great way to meet
    neighbors!!!
    
    Sandy

It is not so easy to spray into other people's window here... You had to see
the house I live in. We have a hanging floor on each level... no, I cannot
write it. It is a totally alien thing for You there over the Water, I think.
Why not come and see it? For halfanhour chat you must fly only about twenty 
hours...

Nat :) :)

    Feline party at Nats house.....okay.....if we all leave right now...
    we can have lunch tomorrow!!!!
    
    Sandy
    

    Oh, goody!! I've always wanted to visit -- what country is it you 
    live in, Nat? :-)
    
    Linda

    I live in Budapest, Hungary/Europe.
    
    I just imagined my 400 sq feet flat with 18345223 cats running
    around...
    
    Nat    =:-|
    
    

    Nat, when we get together for a party - it's only the humans, not the
    cats.  You'd probably be surrounded by all women.  Could you stand
    that?  :^)

    Me sure, being a 'whole male'; I only have to ask my wife, too...
    
    Nat  8*)

    
      Help needed for a solution to stop my 10 month old siamese cat from
    bitting. He is a indoor cat only and he is fixed, all shots are up to
    date. When you go to pat him he swings his head last minute and takes 
    a snip at you I don't know if he's trying to play or if he is mad at
    somthing. He's always purring and he follows me everywhere and stops
    trying to bite as soon as you pick him up, then he turns to butter when
    you pat him. 
    
         Does anyone have any solutions on how to stop him from bitting?
    It's a problem for sure because he has teeth of a large dog, reminds me
    of a sabertooth tiger you see in books.
    
       thanx, 
    
           scott

    I empathize with your problem.  He could be biting for two reasons:
    that it hurts when you pat him on the head; or more likely, it's a love
    nip.  Oh, and one more, he could be trying to get attention.
    
    Those love nips can hurt, and leave scars.  Either way, I find that 
    if you don't snatch your hand away, but push back gently into the open 
    jaws then they don't bit so hard. With one of our cats we had to make
    an arm protector out of 5 thickness of towel; when we made a fuss of
    him he would get overcome and rip the H$*&l out of our arms and hands 
    if we didn't wear the sleave.
    
    

    Scott,
    One possibility is that depending on how long ago he was neutered, it 
    may still be hormones.  Sometimes a whole male becomes confused and\
    over excited when pet.  This can lead to him biting, not in the sense
    of trying to hurt or attack.  Males will grab onto the neck of the 
    female and hence, his perhaps biting on to you.  You may need to
    give him a little more time or talk to your vet about this over 
    aggression.  It sounds as if he is actually very friendly and loving.
    Don't give up on him.  He's just a kid!
    Karen

    We play always a sort of 'bites & scratches' with Smokey. She always
    bites when playing this (only me, never my wife! Seems only I am
    acknowledged as another cat!) but never hard. I never pull the hand
    away (this can hurt bad, without the cat wanting to do it), just let
    her gnaw and chew on my fingers or underarm. Sometimes I get some tiny
    bleeding spots, but that is OK... it keeps my immune system awake! :^)
    
    Try to play with him so, and hiss and spit on him if he'll get too
    hard. This helps with my auntie's siamese bandit, too.
    
    Nat

what about with a little kitten - @ 13 weeks old ?  My roommate's new kitten
(we've had him for about 5 weeks now) will "attack" her, biting on her ears,
last night he swatted and scratched her face, he's also bitten her nose, etc..
Last night he wrapped his whole body around her arm and bit her on the hand, 
she told him "no" real sternly and a little while later he bit the other one ! 
When she told him "no" then and lightly swatted his butt and he swiped out at 
her face.......

We've been keeping him upstairs in her bedroom because he's still so tiny
(he was only @1/2 # when we got him, he's about 2-1/2 # now !) compared to
the other cats - he has the run of her room 90% of the time and has his
kitty playpen to be protected the rest of the time.  We're not sure if this
is normal kitten behavior (didn't happen with my two when they were his age !)
or if this is "acting out" because he wants more freedom to roam the house ??

Regardless of why, any ideas on what to do to stop him before it gets too
much worse ?  The water bottle ???  something else ???

Debbi

    Put your thumb on his tongue and press down gently and say NO firmly
    when he bites.  Or, take him by the scruff and give him a quick, gently
    shake and say NO or NO BITING firmly.  These things have helped with Mac.  
    He was a terror at biting when I got him.  He's much better now.  If you
    could see my hands you could tell right way how much he's changed.  I
    used to sport constant scratches where his teeth marked my hand as he
    bit me (or scratched me).  Look ma, no scratches.  
    
    Jan  

    
    
    	I had one kitten that would growl/hiss/bite (in that order)
    	when someone entered her "space". She also loved to rub up
    	against your ankles seeking attention - go figure.
    
    	Anyway, since I know a cat's nose is super-sensitive I found
    	that a stern "NO" accompanied by a tap on the tip of the nose
    	worked best. You only need use a light one-fingered tap to make
    	the point. She looked surprised as hell the first few times,
    	but learned quickly. After a short while I only needed raise
    	my finger to her face and say "no" before she stopped. 
    
    	I never was real successful with swatts on the butt, one of my
    	cats loves to be petted/scratched there and another WILL swipe
    	at you when even touched near her tail. IMHO water bottles only
    	cause trauma later on in life - one of my strays scrambles for 
    	dear life everytime I mist my plants or use the mister to iron.
    
    	Heidi

    When Veto(-the-Dim) gets too worked up in a play session and starts
    serious kicking and/or biting, I say "NO!" loudly, then stop moving my 
    hand (or arm or whatever) until he lets go.  Then I leave; end of play 
    session.
    
    He seems to have gotten the message that he gets *no attention* if he's
    going to be a brat!
    
    Leslie

    When Honey was a kitten (a LONG time ago), he used to bite me--the
    breeder's husband used to play with him and kinda encouraged that
    behaviour.  I read somewhere that when a kitty hurts you (or nearly
    hurts you), howl and act injured immediately.  Kitties HATE to be
    humiliated and if he gets the idea that he hurt his primary food giver,
    he'll stop.  When Honey bit me, I'd immediately whine and make
    kitty-type cry noises.  It only took a couple times, but he seemed
    mortified and the biting stopped.
    
    As for the bop on the tip of the nose, Momcats do that to disipline
    their kittens, so if he thinks you're the new Mommy, that might work. 
    I found crying worked better.
    
    Mary
    

    I was practicing my flute the other day and Jimmy just walked up and
    bit me. I didn't think I was THAT bad!

    
       My Siamese was fixed in Jan. He's an excellent cat, everyday he
    greets me at the door. Rolls around on the floor andf waits to be
    picked up. He loves to be held. I've tried the tapping on the nose bit
    with saying a firm NO! but he just gives me a strange look. I think
    he's trying to be The Great Hunter that he thinks he is. He pounces on
    everything, When I walk down the hallway he walks behind me and on his
    back legs and swats at my feet. His biting has got to go he drew blood
    the other day. To say the least I wasn't happy about it. 
    
         Scott
    

    The cat behaviorist from the SF Revelers show had a great idea for
    retraining cats that grab onto legs and bite as you go by.  She 
    said to get some two-sided carpet tape, put on your jeans.  Wrap
    the tape around the legs and walk down in the area kitty usually
    attacks from thus enticing an attack.  When kitty launches the attack 
    he/she will be very surprised when he/she sticks to the attackee.  
    Supposedly his/her prime motivation at that point will be to unstick 
    instead of biting.  Don't know how long (how many hall walks) it takes 
    to get the point across but it sounds like a great idea.
    
    Also, she suggested the two-sided tape for counter training and for
    keeping cats from scratching furniture.  I believe the suggestion
    for the furniture was to use two-sided tape to tape aluminum foil
    on the favorite scratching spots.  My sadistic side is contemplating
    just putting the tape up on Onyx's favorite couch spot though :^)
    Ooops, what happened Onyx, did you stick to the couch?  He-he-he-he-he
    
    Jan                                   

    JAN,
    That is a great idea.  I must say, that sounds funny about 
    putting tape on the couch to tease Onyx.  I would be curious what the
    reaction would be.  Perhaps I should try it on top of the
    cable tv box.  They are forever knocking it off the tv and ripping
    out the wires!
    Karen

    hmmm...Karen we now have our cable box wire taped to the cable
    box...and we also had to tape the wire to the TV Stand....because
    one of my little furfaces just loves to slide across the stand
    and knock it off.   
    
    The first time they did this...I actually called cable and reported
    my cable was out.  (oopss...I wasn't too nice about it either!!)
    
    Sandy

    > The first time they did this...I actually called cable and reported
    > my cable was out.  (oopss...I wasn't too nice about it either!!)
    
    Sandy, I can just picture it -- that's really funny! 

    Linda

    Sandy,
    I think we may have called to ask if it was out in our area!
    We used to tape it down, but not anymore, not sure why.  Jimmy
    is in charge of that!  They do pull the wire out of the back of the bos
    though.
    Karen

    
       Its been a few weeks and I've been using the the press down on the
    bottom of his jaw and shout NO! Now he hardly ever bites execpt when
    I play with him and he attacks but he bites very gently now. he seems
    to be more affectionate than he used to be. He's getting bigger and his
    coat is getting very full. He went from a light cream color (siamese)
    to a darker color, with his black mask he is turning out to be a very
    handsome cat. My landloard wants to adopt him but he's staying put. Now
    if I could just train him not to cry like a human baby I'd be happier
    it freaks me out every time. I'd run out of the room to see what was
    the noise and he would just sit there and stare at me with his big blue
    eyes. 
    
    
              Thanx,
                Scott