Conference misery::feline

    If you do have fleas in your house, I'm sure they are living
    in your rugs.  Fleas only spend a very little percent of their
    time on cats and most always find a dark spot to breed and
    multiply.   Here's a few things to try to see if you do have
    them.  (you could have mite bites and not flea bites!!)
    
     o Take a small light (remove shade...one of those goosehead
       lamps work very well) and put it on the floor.  Take a soup
       bowl and fill with water and put a piece of Ivory Soap in
       the bowl.  Place the bowl right under the light and leave
       it in one spot for a few hours.   The fleas jump at the light
       and end up in the bowl of soapy water....and this will prove
       if your do have fleas.  If you do not find fleas after a few
       hours...move the light and bowl to another section of the
       room.   
    
     o Get a flea comb and use it on your kittens.  This will serve
       two purpose.  Find out if they have fleas...but also get them
       use to being flea combed while they are young!!
    
    There are so many flea products on the market...and some work
    for some people and don't for others.  I personally don't believe
    in Flea Bombs and have had much better luck using a Duratrol Spray
    when I have a BAD problem.  
    
    Good luck.
    
    Sandy

    I believe that sprinkling Borax on the rug, waiting 20 minutes and
    vaccuuming does something to help. (I think that it kills the eggs?)
    
    Deb

    Thank you both. I called the vet last night. She says keep trying
    different things. I sprinked the Borax in my bedroom and vacuumed
    last night and kept the kittens away from me. I have no new
    bites today. I'm going to try to keep the cats off of me for
    a few days when I am home to determine if this is an allergic
    reaction to them -- although they certainly look and feel like
    bites to me. I will also check into Duratral spray.
    
    	Thank you

    Just one more suggestion....be careful with combining many
    of the flea products because a mixture of certain chemicals
    can poison your kitties and cause them to have a reaction.
    
    Borax is a very non-toxic method...but just an FYI it does not
    kill adult fleas and only kills the eggs which break the cycle.
    If you only use the borax...you will see still see adult fleas
    but as weeks go on you'll see less and less because the eggs
    won't hatch.  Adults only live about 5 days....
    
    Sandy

    I'm like you - there can be one flea within 200 mmiles and it'll bite
    ME!  What helps is making sure they aren't in your bedclothes or your
    clothes.  Change the sheets on your bed and wash any clothes that the
    kittens might have had access to.  It only takes one nap on a pile of
    clean laundry by a kittie who brings in the buggers from outside to
    set me itching.
    
    I use the VET CHEM products from the vets when we have a really bad
    problem.
    
    Good luck,
    Dana

    I've had the flea bites you mention and the itching can drive you
    crazy.  Last time fleas were a problem, some time ago (knock on wood!)
    we went the route of bombing the house, covering the plants, didn't do
    the borax but will if needed in the future.  The one thing that did
    help keep the critters away from me was PENNYROYAL OIL.  It has a
    strong order, not totally unpleasant, but not roses either that the
    fleas do not like.  Small bottle of .25 oz costs about $2.00, you can
    put it on a cotton ball and slip it between your sheets, especially
    helpful if your cats sleep on/around your legs.  Basically wipe the oil
    on any surface where you want the fleas to be gone from.    I usually
    buy my supply from Pickety Place in Mason, NH...it is something I
    always keep on hand.
    

    Thanks for all the help. I've been Boraxing and keeping the
    cats away from me for the past two days. As soon as I
    get home - I keep them in the basement - which is all
    finished off. A couple of days now with no new flea bites.
    So the test will be when i make contact with the cats again.
    
    I have my fingers crossed.
    
    Gael

    maybe the problem is not fleas. i have had similar problems with my
    cats that were strays that lived outside before they came home with me.
    they would sleep with me and the next morning i would be covered with 
    bites that looked like flea bites but i could never find a trace of
    fleas on the cats. my vet told me that they were mites that are common
    to strays . they gave me some powder and told me to powderup the cats 
    really well and that i could even use it on myself.  i did just that
    and the problem disappeared within a few days.
    
    hope this helps!!!
    
    jeane
    

    
    
    	Grumble......  rather than start a new note....
    
    	Something I didn't think I was going to have to worry about again.
    	Seems Mom may have brought some flea eggs in on her last weekend
    	when out doing all that yard work.  I found a flea on my sweatshirt
    	last night after Sasha got off my lap.
    
    	So, should I get all panicky and nip this in the bud by spending
    	close to $80 to have all the cats flea bathed and then treat the
    	house?   I know if there's one, there's bound to be more....
    	Or should I wait and see if I really have a problem.......
    
    	JJ
    

    Try putting borax down or spraying the carpet now.  Perhaps you'll
    nip it in the bud early and won't have to invest in the flea baths.
    
    Jan (who's in the eradicate it now mode since she's been dealing with 
    	 an ant infestation in her kitchen...arghhh!)

    Nip it early.......even if it means spending a few bucks
    on some flea spray for the house.  One flea now...means
    zillions of them by August!!!
    
    Jan..have you ever tried Duratrol.  It works GREAT on ant 
    and fleas.  It is a bit expensive, but I buy it every year
    to spray my porch in the spring and I do not see an ant
    all summer long.   I do feed strays on that porch so if I
    don't spray..I have an army of ants.
    
    Sandy 
    
    
    

    
    
    	Duratrol huh?
    
    	Ok,  I'll pick up some Borax too and try that first.  Change
    	the bed sheets,  Borax the rugs, the bed, couch....  I used
    	up what little Borax I had left last night.
    

    given that Chloe is in kidney failure, I would probably try to make
    sure that she didn't get exposed to the stuff.
    
    Deb

    
    
    	Do you mean the Duratrol Deb?
    
    	I'll be keeping all the cats in the bathroom while I'm using
    	it.  Maybe I'll keep her in there longer or something.
    
    
    	sigh.......
    

    yes, the Duratrol, but also the borax as well.
    
    Deb

    One reason why I like the Duratrol is once you spray it...
    you only have to stay out of that room for an hour!!  I use
    it on my porch and around my house every summer, but I
    have also used it in the house when I had a real bad
    flea problem and Borax wasn't curing it fast enough.
    
    

    Sandy, where do you get Duratrol?  Just at a vet's?  The two hour
    wait then one hour for rooms to air out is a real nuisance with the
    flea bomb stuff I use.
    

    I haven't tried Duratrol on the ants.  So far the Terminix guy who
    lives next door has put something in the wall in the bathroom and 
    kitchen.  That worked for about a week.  The bathroom is relatively
    ant free but the kitchen is infested.  I live in an apartment and 
    the Terminix guy and maintenance person keep talking about the fact
    that someone needs to get up under the building and get to the ants
    from there because they're coming up from the underground.  But, no
    one has done it yet.  
    
    BTW, I do feed a cat on my patio but I haven't seen a single (or married 
    :^) ant out there.  Seems they prefer my food too the cat food.  In fact, 
    the only time the touch the cat food inside is if it's in the bowls.  The 
    open 25 lb bag sitting in the middle of the kitchen floor doesn't seem to 
    matter to them. (knock wood)  However, a good box of cereal seems to be
    heaven to them.  I'm currently placing all my cereal, rice, rice cakes,
    etc. in large ziplock bags in the pantry.  Next step is storing every
    thing in the fridge.  Would you believe when I opened the dishwasher 
    last night it was loaded with ants inside...hope they enjoyed the normal
    wash cycle as much as I enjoyed sharing it with them.
    
    I have used Raid (Spring Fresh smell...yeah, right) and that works for
    a little while.  Where do I get the duratrol?  I'll batten down the
    kitty hatches (read:  tuck them into the bedroom for a while) and 
    spray down the kitchen.  In fact, I was planning to do that with the
    raid this weekend.  Mom suggested ant bait but according to the 
    Terminix guy, that's a great way to attract ants.  He doesn't think
    it does much to get rid of them.
    
    Ooops, didn't mean to turn this into the ant topic.  Thanks for 
    listening.
    
    Jan
    CEO, Ants Inc.

    When I was a "starving student" there were cockroaches in the
    building I lived in.  Aghh.  I put virtually all food objects
    in glass jars -- the kind of canning jars you can buy in cases
    at the supermarket, or old mayonnaise jars, etc. or in the refrig.
    Bread (except French bread, which seems to immediately go stale)
    actually keeps better in the frig or freezer, if you don't mind
    microwaving it for 10-20 seconds per slice when you want to
    use it, or toasting it.
    
    Somewhere I read that ants follow trails and that does seem to be
    true, wiping a wet paper towel along a trail does seem to disorient
    the ants queueing up to follow it.  Caulking entry holes if you
    can find them also helps.
    
    I think ant bait is probably poisonous to kitties.
    
    Also, you can keep ants out of pet food dishes by putting the
    dish in a shallow pan of water -- building a moat, so to speak.
    

    luckily, ant season hasn't started here yet, BUT I they seem to love my
    garden. I've found that dumping a pan of boiling water into each
    ant hill seems to take care of them inexpensivly and nontoxicly.
    
    Deb 

    
    
    	Well all three furfaces got bathed on Sunday.  No fleas
    	in the tub.  Overall it wasn't too bad.  No blood was 
    	drawn.  =)
    
    	And we Boraxed the rugs, sofa, bedding etc...........
    
    	I did buy some chemical stuff made by Zodiac.  I didn't
    	see Duratrol at Petco.  I'm thinking about using that in
    	the windowsills and doorways.......
    

    Re:  .19
    
    I'm beginning to see that all my ant favorites are going to have
    to be kept in airtight containers or in the fridge.  What a pain.
    What's truly amazing is that the open bag of pet food sits right
    between the two side of the kitchen and no one seems to care about
    it.  Or, if I set my water pitcher (an ant favorite swimming pool)
    in the middle of the stove they stay out of it but if it is on the
    counter, they go swimming.
    
    It's odd.  They seem to be coming in through a variety of places
    that change randomly depending on what they're after.  I'm getting
    to the point where I'm going to lock the cats in the bedroom and 
    spray down every nook and cranny in the kitchen and bathroom (they
    seem to be following the plumbing) with "Spring Fresh" Raid (spring
    fresh my eye).  As for the cat bowls, they generally leave them 
    alone but, now and then I'll catch a couple in there.  I'm getting
    pretty good about picking them up and washing them down the sink
    (back to where they came from).
    
    Jan

  Fleabusters are coming out on Sat the 11th for our annual service.   We 
haven't had any fleas since we cleaned up the infestation last year -- no 
flea sprays, baths, collars or bombs needed.  These guys are worth every penny.

  As for the ants, you really have my sympathy.  We have an ant service with 
a pest company; they come out every other month and spray outside.  The first 
visit they spray inside and outside, but outside spraying mostly keeps it 
under control.  They don't charge us extra if they have to come in and respray 
but that usually only happens once a year in June in either a bathroom or the 
kitchen (depending on where the nest is).  The service is supposed to cover 
fleas but since they only kill the adults....

  One of my customers told me to use white vinegar on ants but I've only had
marginal success with that.  Raid seems to work better but doesn't get the 
nest.  Good luck.

				SQ

    Pots of boiling water really does get the ant nests.  It may have to be
    repeated a few times.
    
    Maybe we need to rename this conference ANTS :-)
    

    I can't get to the nests...boy do I wish I could...but, they're
    under the building.  If there are any human-sized access vents
    they're located somewhere where non-property management personel
    can't find them. 
    
    Sorry about the ant rathole.  Guess I should talk about this stuff 
    somewhere else.
                           
    Jan
    

    Avon has a product called skin-so-soft. It's supposed to be used as a
    bath oil/skin softener but is one of the best bug deterrants I've ever
    found. I use it in the summer on me to keep bugs off when I garden and
    I've used it on the outside of the house to deter ants, bees and other
    bug critters.
    
    We have a problem every once in a while where the ants come in the back
    porch door. A little of this stuff - and they avoid the place. I also
    use it to keep them off the hummingbird feeders (sugar water definately
    attracts ants!) and when they invaded our garden shed I sprayed SSS
    liberally on any surface with ants. They can't vacate fast enough. 
    
    Only problem is the stuff does have a strong smell. If you like the
    smell (like I do) it's not a problem, but my husband really hates it,
    so I have to be careful how much and where I use it. Also, since I've
    had the bath oil variety, I've had to be careful what I put it on so
    the oil doesn't stain, or we don't slip. I haven't tried the lotions or
    other forms yet, so don't know if they are as effective.I have a spray
    bottle of the oil and just spritz the bugs and surfaces.
    
    but - it works - smells better than raid - and hopefully isn't toxic to
    us, since it's supposed to be used on humans. 
    
    Good luck! 
    
    janetb. - who hates ants in the house! yuck!

  Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about Avon's Skin-so-soft.  I've never used it but
I know people who go to Alaska in the summer and swear by it.  (And Alaska has 
bugs as big as our kitties!)

				SQ

    You can buy Duratrol at your vets.  It is a bit expensive...
    I think about $15 a bottle, but it works great on fleas, ants
    and all other bugs for atleast 4 months.
    
    I usually buy atleast 4 bottles and it does my house, cellar,
    and porch.... all you do is spray a mist on everything.
    
    Sandy

    I once read in a gardening book, that ants do not like cucumbers, so
    that if you put a slice or two of cucumber where you think they are
    coming into the house, they will stop.
    
    Then again, I have never tried it, so I don't know if it really works.
    
    
    joan

    
    can you tell me more about flebusters?
    
    I am VERY VERY VERY alergic to fleas.  I keep collar on my kids all yr
    round and I bomb my house twice a yr.  
    
    I just took the kids to the vet 2 weeks ago and no one had fleas.  But
    I woke up this weekend all swollen and brokenout from fleas!  I diped
    all the kids, bombed the house (no carpets in this house either) - i
    washed EVERYTHING and then I sprayed the kids again before I let them
    in the house (never a flea did I find on any of the kids).   and i also
    bought everyone brand new collars (ones from the vet) (theirs old ones
    were only 2mo old, but I didn't want to take any chances)
    
    I put my new sheets on and I sprayed them before I got in to bed - well
    I woke up w/more bites on me today!
    
    My bites are so bad I had to go to the Drs - the Dr has never seen this
    so bad "ever" - I am very very alergic to this pesty critters.  I could
    barly walk for 2 days - and wearing cloths.....I just can't imagine it
    at this time.
    
    I might need fleabusters.
    
    HELP
                 

    
    	Can you possibly get allergy shots to at least minimize the
    effect from the bites?  You might even try putting skin so soft,
    from Avon, all over before you go to bed.  It does repel some bugs,
    why not give it a try, at least you'd have nice skin in the a.m.
    
    				Hope things get better for you!
    				Sue

    One thing that stops the itching is putting witch hazel on the bites.
    It takes a few minutes to take effect.
    

    p.s.  Try washing your blanket -- that's a haven for fleas in
    my house.
    

    and I think that you need to go after the flea eggs, too. It wouldn't
    hurt to put down some borax.
    
    Deb

    
    I have some heavey perscription medication for my bites/itches - I was
    also treated for Scabbies/Mites (just incase).
    
    The whole house was bombed w/ a bomb that kills the eggs - they whole
    house was washed and rewashed.
    
    Before I put my clean bed linens back on - I put flea powder under
    between my boxspring and powder under my bedliner.  I sprayed the
    sheets down w/ flea spray before I got into the bed.
    
    I had the kids checked again - and they don't have fleas - so I don't
    know what is biteing at me :=(
    
    when I bombed the house I even took my mattresses and stood them up
    against the wall - i took out the sofa coushins - the whole 9 yards.
    
    bummmmmmmmmer
    
    Lou

    
    
    	Wow.  That sounds like some serious flea-busting activity
    	of your own.  You must have some really persistent ones!
    
    	Have you tried the light-over-the-soapy-water trick to find
    	out exactly where they are?
    
    	JJ
    

    Be careful;  you don't want to get so much flea killing stuff in
    your house that either you or the kitties get sick.  I believe
    flea bombs only kill the flea eggs;  vacuuming every day helps
    considerably in my house (discard the vac bag outside in the trash
    promptly.)  It might also be worth a trip to a dermatologist for
    better identification/treatment if this doesn't help.
    

    I hope they gave you some good antihistimines to help control
    the itching in addition to the witch hazel, etc.  
    
    From what I understand only 1% of the flea problem is on the 
    cat.  So, that could explain why you're not finding anything
    on them.  Is it possible you picked up some flea bites from
    outside your home?  I can't remember if you mentioned whether
    or not you treated the area surrounding your home.
    
    I second Karen's suggesting about vacuuming and throwing the
    bag away.  Buy some cheap bags that you won't mind ditching 
    each day.  Putting borax down to dry out any remaining eggs
    and then vacuuming each day did wonders at my place when I 
    was fighting a major infestation.
    
    Jan

    
    I put all the kids outside lastnight (I hated to do that - I love my
    kids sleeping on my bed w/me)  and I doused my sheets once again w/
    Control (a flea spray) and I had NO NEW bites lastnight.
    
    I think I'll keep the kids outside for a day or two (weather
    permitting) so I can be sure there are no more fleas in my house.
    
    Then I will have the kids checked once again for fleas, and then let
    them back in.  I need to heal, I need to be the #1 priorty right now.
    
    I came back to work today, but I can't wear nylons and I have on a
    short loose skirt (I'll be carful when I bend over) ;-)
    
    I think I might have the problem under contorl - keep your fingers
    crossed.
    
    Lou

    Lou, when you say have the cats checked for fleas, that makes me
    think you aren't flea combing the cats yourself?  Combing helps
    a lot.  I comb fleas into a couple of Kleenex, wadding it up as
    I go, and then immediately flush it down the toilet.  I do all my
    kitties twice a day.  It really makes their fur soft as well.
    You can buy a fine tooth (not a wide tooth) comb at a pet store.
    Tell them you want a flea comb.
    

    Can anyone tell me where I can buy Borax? Is that something I
    can get in a hardware store like Home Depot?
    
    Thanks,
    Ken

    
    You can get borax at pretty much any supermarket in the "laundry
    detergent" aisle with the bleaches and stuff.  I believe the brand name
    is "20 Mule Team".
    
    If you have any left over, it can be used to make Gak 8^).
      
    

    
    OK, what's "gak"?
    
    BTW, I recently read something in the Tufts Vet School cat newsletter
    about use of borax for treating flea problems.  I'll dig it up and post
    a summary here.
    
    len.
    

    isn't it something like a very gooy silly putty?
    
    Deb

    
    Exactly.  You can buy it in toy stores in cans.  Kids love it, along
    with Slime, Floam, bla bla bla 8^).
    

    re: .42
    
    I didn't realize borax and Boraxo were the same. For some reason,
    I thought Boraxo was processed borax with a few goodies added and was
    to be used as a soap only.
    
    Thanks for the help!
    
    Ken

    Borax is a naturally occuring substance, and I'm pretty sure that
    boraxo is a brand name of a borax product, much like 20 Mule Team Borax
    is a another brand of Borax.
    
    Deb

    And if you read the box...you will be amazed what Borax
    can do for you.  I use to buy it only for fleas control....
    but now I find I'm using it around the house for multiple things.
    (cleans toilets great...and it was the ONLY thing that
    cleaned the inside of my thermos.)
    
    Sandy
    

    I've been using borax in the litterboxes in lieu of the high
    priced Litter Treatment product from Nature's Miracle.  So,
    I'm getting two benefits...odor control and flea control. :^)
    
    Also, in the box "The Tiger on Your Couch" they list borax as
    one of the recommended non-toxic cleaning products.
    
    Jan

    I realize that you have 8 of them but what is "the box 'The Tiger on
    Your Couch'"? Do you mean "book"? Or is this a product I've never heard
    of?
    
    Deb

    Oops, typo alert.  That should have been the book "The Tiger on 
    Your Couch".
    
    Jan

re .30
    
>    can you tell me more about flebusters?
>    
>    I am VERY VERY VERY alergic to fleas.  I keep collar on my kids all yr
>    round and I bomb my house twice a yr.  
    
Been there -- done that (including heavy duty meds from the doctor).  So, as 
far as I'm concerned, Fleabusters are from heaven and worth every penny I 
give them once a year.  They are expensive; my four bedroom, living room, 
dining room, family room average tract house runs $260.00, including the 
whopping $10.00 repeat customer discount!  HOWEVER, I haven't had a flea bite 
in 10 months.

Your first time (house infested with fleas):  they come out and put borax 
down on all carpeted areas, including throw rugs (wash them before they come
out because you shouldn't wash them for as long as you can stand it afterward) 
and they put borax on your upholstered furniture.  You wait 48 hours and then 
you start vacuuming every other day for about 6 weeks (I second the suggestion 
of putting in a new bag every time).  The fleas will get worse before they 
get better so you will have to diligently use a flea comb on your kitties.  I 
would dip the comb in flea spray and then comb through each of them as often 
as I could every day when it was bad.  You'll wonder if you got ripped off 
during this period.  The borax dehydrates the eggs, so after the adults 
finally die off, you break the cycle.  The Fleabuster guarantee is good for 
a year but you will break the warranty if you steam clean your carpets so 
have that done about a week before they come out.

Repeat years (no fleas in the house): you just have to get everything off the 
carpets (in closets and under beds) and vacuum before they come out.  You 
don't have to go through 6 weeks of hell ever again!  I schedule the steam 
cleaning for an early May Saturday and then the Fleabusters for the following 
week.  Wish I'd done it a long time ago.

Good luck.

				SQ

    
    I am all healed and I haven't had a bite all week.  I think they are
    gone (for now).  The kids about back sleeping on my bed :-)
    
    Lou

    
    Could someone tell me about their experiences with Advantage?
    This is the liquid form correct ?
    
    SueJ

    Somewhere in here there is a string of notes about it.  Opinions
    range from people very concerned about chemicals to people like
    me and my vet, who think it's in the minor miracle category.
    

    Check 1019.0 for more information on Advantage.
    
    Jan