Conference misery::feline

    This morning I left my microwave warmed diet muffin on the counter
    while I carried breakfast in to the Joui babies, and when I came back,
    it wasn't there.  Someone dragged it off and ate it!! :'{
    
    Jo

    
    *  I HATE it that W/D costs $ 10.36 for a 4 lb. bag and you can only
       get it at the vets.
    
    *  I get irritated that people rag on me that I like purebred cats.
    
    *  I get so upset thinking about the breeder that I got Callie
       from that I could just scream.  He is the epitomy of the type
       of breeder that gives the reputable breeders a bad name.
    
    

    I hate it that I have to type pedigrees!  Wish I had access to a
    pedigree program but haven't found one yet that is compatible to my
    equipment (DEC).
    
    Jo

    Typed in by Kelsey Kagno, as told to Roberta Kagno.
    
    	(Kelsey was never very good at spelling.)
    
    I love to whine.  I am very good at it, as mom and dad can attest.  I
    have been whining since I was a small baby at the cattery.  It is the
    good thing Roberta and Dana brought me home because no one else would
    have put up with me for as long as they have.
    
    I whine for a lot of reasons.  If you try to hold me, I will whine. 
    Try to brush me and I will whine, and if the vet comes to the house to
    see me I will whine.  I especially whine when Taja and Herbie start
    chasing me around the house.  I really hate those two.  There is never
    a moments peace.  It was bad enough when mom brought Taja home but
    then she had to add insult to injury and buy Herbie -- what a waste of
    money IMHO!
    
    Oh, and DON'T EVER try to clip my claws.  Not only will I whine, but I
    might try to tear your face off in the process.  If you value your
    life, you will let me go about my daily routine whining about all of
    life's little setbacks.
    
    Keep on whining!
    
    -Kelsey
    

    
    	Ok, here's a whine that I've been looking for a place to put for
    	awhile!  Whilst Christmas shopping a few weeks ago, hubby and
    	I wandered into a pet store (I can't go to the mall without 
    	going to the pet store) and they were selling a LH domestic
    	kitten..... FOR $89!!!!  It's bad enough they sell them for
    	$30 at other times but to jack up the price that much just
    	for Christmas really infuriated me!  And I made sure I talked
    	loud enough so the woman behind the counter heard me.
    
    	Then last night there was the beautiful 10 week old flame
    	point himmie without a severe face at the mall....$499.00.
    
    	sigh......
    
    	JJ
    

    1.  Landlords who won't rent to people with pets, especially the
        elderly.
    
    2.  Irresponsible pet owners.
    
    3.  Special diets for cats that must taste like saw dust.  Cant they do
        anything to make them taste better (and look better).
    
    4.  That there aren't stiffer penalties for animal abuse.
    
    (not necissairly in this order)
    
    Giudi

    Okay, my turn.
    
    I'm whining because a group of people who make regulations think
    they are going to cut down on all the feral kitties and control
    the backyard breeders by making regulations that will probably only 
    make it tougher on the responsible breeders and pet owners.
    
    I hate when that happens.
    
    Jan

    I absolutely can't stand people who discard their pets once the human
    children are born.  Also, those folks who still keep them but neglect
    their wants and needs or throw them outside to stay there day after day
    after day.
    
    This is my biggest whine!!!
    
    --Roberta
    

    This isn't a whine exactly (it is much stronger than a whine) but, I 
    couldn't find another place to put it.
    
    While on my way to lunch with a friend I ended up stopped behind a
    little white car that had what I consider to be the most offensive
    license plate frame I have ever seen.  It said...
    
    	                   Cats flattened
    
    			   While you wait!
    
    My friend and I both agreed that this person should be run over once or
    twice just for good measure to see if they feel strongly enough about
    that frame to keep it or if just maybe the tire tracks across their
    little bods just might have changed their minds and they'll dump that
    offensive thing in the trash where it belongs.
    
    Jan
                                       

    re: .9 - Yes, ANIMAL ABUSE IS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!!!
    
    That's my whine for the day.
    

    How about the book "100 Uses for a Dead Cat"?
    
    Har-de-har-har (said just dripping with sarcasm).
    
    K.C.

    Reminds me of a story...
    
    I stopped at the local convenience store at lunch time a few months
    ago. There was only one car parked outside of the store, so I knew that
    it belonged to the only guy in the store. The car had the back end of a 
    cat sticking out of the front gril & it had a sticker right next to it
    that read: "I like cats too...DEAD ONES!"
    
    I went in, didn't say a word to him (didn't know what to say anyway), 
    got what I wanted, and turned to leave. We were at the door at the 
    same time & he held it open for me. He was in his 20's, a real moron
    who thought that just because he had a sports car that every woman in
    the world would want him...ya know the type. He sez to me, "Hi, how'z
    it goin'?" I said back, "Good, I'm on my way home to see my cats, you
    jerk! Nice fuzzy cuddly LIVE ones! F*ck off!"
    
    crude, but true
    
    Bonnie

    I know this might open a hole but lately I've seen a lot of homless
    people with cats and dogs and it's beginning to upset me.  Some of the
    animals look like thy're being taken care of but some DON'T.
    
    Giudi

    
    Visitors at cat shows that continually put their hands in the cages to
    pet the cats even after they are politely asked not to do so by the 
    exhibitor and by announcements over the p.a. system.....
    
    

    my whine.....
    
    Having a kitten that has broken 10 of my glasses in the past 6 weeks by
    pushing them off whereever they are with her nose.....aaarrrggghhh!

    Re: homeless people with dogs, cats.  (Something to the effect that
    some of these animals look like they're being taken care of but
    aren't.)
    
    You're worried about the pets when the people are homeless?  I suppose
    the logical thing for newly homeless pet owners to do would be to put
    their pets in a no-kill shelter, but even that can cost money.  But I'd
    be more worried about these people's CHILDREN.
    
    Lisa Dean

    .16
    
    Maybe I should have used the word "drunks" rather than homeless.  I've
    seen some abussive situations - animals being passed from one group of
    people to another to attract money, being forced to hold plates or
    dishes in their mouth for donations - have brought food for the animals
    and have been told to get the "hell" away.  I have a real sensitivity
    for the homless and their plight and I know that they deserve the
    comfort and love of a pet and most of these people are responsible to
    their animals - so I stand corrected and substitute the word(s) drunks
    or bums rather than "homless".
    
    That's my Whine for the day!
    
    Giudi

    Understood!  But 1. it is exactly your concern for the animal that
    those people are trying to use, and 2. if those people are hungry
    they'll try anything.
    
    I sometimes find it easier myself to feel for a homeless cat than a
    homeless person, but I know that is wrong.  Even though I think a
    person has more power than an animal to determine his or her fate,
    always the innocent can suffer, and it's sad to think outright
    criminals get better food, shelter, and medical care in prison than
    people living on the street.  (Of course, in the meantime I will feel
    sorry for the homeless cat, as well.)
    
    So I apologize if I came on too strong.  It was early, and after seeing
    the morning news, incoming facts collided.
    
    Lisa Dean

    I read in the paper this morning that 63 dead racing greyhounds were
    found shot in a lemon orchard in Arizona.  Their left ears, with the
    tatoos, were cut off.  I will never understand the cruelty of some
    people, never.
    
    Karen

    My whine is my neighbors who go to work and leave their cats
    out doors all day. They leave at 7am and don't return home until
    7pm at night. No matter what the weather is they, the 3 of them
    are out all that time.
    
    I see them huddled against the door when I leave for work, freezing
    in the winter, sometimes covered with snow, and in the summer with
    the sun beating down on them. No shelter, water or anything. I have
    spoken to them and been told to mind my own business. We live in a
    condo/townhouse development and it's close living. Not an impossible
    situation when you have neighbors who are considerate, kind, caring
    but when you don't it's like h___.
    
    Barbara
    
    

    File this one under "inconsiderate people", "obnoxious younger
    siblings" or "cruel and unusual punishment for the innocent":
    
    Let's take the Way-Back machine to 1983 - Leigh and I weren't married
    yet (but were dating), we had Tiki II, and they were living with
    Leigh's dad.
    
    Leigh's sister, Valerie, was visiting from South Carolina for that
    summer.  She was 16 or 17 at this time.  She had a friend up here, 
    who had a year old boy.
    
    One afternoon Leigh and I had gone out.  When we came home, Tiki didn't
    greet us at the door the way he ALWAYS did.  Valerie, her friend and
    the baby were in the living room.
    
    We noticed that Leigh's door was closed.  This was also unusual.  We
    opened the door...
    
    And there was Tiki II, lying on the floor, semi-concious.  The windows
    were closed, the fan off.  No food; no water.  This was in the middle
    of August, in a 3rd floor apartment!
    
    We carried Tiki into the kitchen and gave him teensy bits of water
    (with just a dash of salt...I don't know if this is good for cats, but
    I DO know it is good for humans, and it seemed to work).  When asked
    why Valerie did that to Tiki, her response was:
    
    "I was afraid that he would scratch the baby!"
    
    We then informed her that a) Tiki would not go anywhere NEAR the baby,
    and if he DID scratch the baby it would have been ONLY in self-defense,
    and b) that SHE was a guest in that apartment, but Tiki LIVED there.
    
    Needless to say, from then to the day he died, Tiki would not go
    anywhere near neither babies nor Valerie.
    
    K.C.

re: a%%es with moronic car paraphernalia and animal abuse..

First moronic car paraphernalia:

One day last summer I was taking a very sick and miserable cat to the vets.
She had swallowed a pipe cleaner and it was stuck in her throat.  We didn't
know this at the time and I was beside myself with worry.  Early prognosis ranged
from she was just being cranky to kidney failure.. I was sure she was going to
die and I was already heart broken about it.. (she lived thank goodness)..  
Well, I saw a bumper sticker on the car in front of me and I squinted to read it
hoping that it would be funny and maybe cheer me a bit..  Instead I read the 
following:

	"Seen your cat lately?
	 Look under my tires." 

I turned my usual beet red when I get out of control psychoitcally angry.  
My face felt hot and I could feel the steering wheel bend under the pressure
of my grip.  Cherie looked up at me as if to say, "Dad?? are you ok??.. I'm
not feeling well dad..." Of course, as expected, I got even angrier..  I 
suppressed the urge to find the nearest light armorment/high explosive retail
outlet.. and instead pulled up beside this car full of subhuman filth at the
next light.  It was a male/female pair with a brood of horror in the back seat.
All were smiling away at their fun loving wonderful summer day.. probably on
their way to a baby seal clubbing or something...  I rolled my window down and
said to Mr. WhiteMale Nazi-Puke, "Psst, buddy.. Seen your kids lately?" 
Colossal-Brain said to me "Huh?"..  to which I replied through clenched teeth,
"Look under my tires.. Their crushed to a pulp YOU %#@!* - (too many cuss words
to even put squiggly characters down for)..."  He began to shout back in some
sub form of language that consisted of mainly grunts and burps...  I sped away
without listening... 

Although this didn't help the human condition any and I'm embarassed that I 
even yelled at this mental giant, it made me feel better at the time.. I know
I know.. don't take it out on the grand wizards kids..  they aren't responsible
for their parents actions..   but Cherie is my kid and he shouldn't be running
around threatening violence against my family either.. A%%hole..


Next on 20/20, animal abuse:

When I was a kid, some kids up the street used to find stray cats, dig holes,
bury them up to their necks with only head sticking out of the ground, and 
run the riding mower over them..  Just thinking about it makes me sick to this
day...  Their were 5 of them and one of me (the age of the next to youngest) and
they threatened to do the same to me if I told anyone..  Well.. being 7 years
old and a horrible coward, I didn't say anything.  they moved the next year..


When I was a senior in high school, 48 deer were found in hunington county, next
to Mifflin where I lived..   All had brought down with a bow, then their throats
slit, the hind quarters removed (best meat) and skins removed..   The game 
warden figured that they were mostly still alive while being skinned..  As any
bow hunter out there knows, arrows rarely kill the animal, they just slow them 
down eventually..   They never did find out who did it..  

What a world we live in...

-Rob 

    Rob,
    
    I always like to think what goes around comes around!!
    
    Your stories remind me of the reasons why I usually like animals more
    than humans, which many people who know me can't understand.  Another
    of my whines!
    
    -Roberta

    This really ticked me off....in the local news:
    
    A person accused of breaking the backs and legs of up to 100 cats plea
    bargained the animal abuse/cruelty charge to "disorderly conduct" and
    has to pay a $250 fine.  
    
    Wow, that's a real deterrent!  (read with sarcasm)
    
    Sue B.

    
    I heard Rush Limbaugh, hardly my favorite talk show host, make fun of
    some guy being taken to court for deliberately breaking a cat's leg.
    It seems this character had tortured 30-odd cats before in the same
    way. Limbaugh's point was that this was a waste of the court's time,
    but he also indicated that he felt the incident of no consequence.
    

    I heard him say something one day to the effect that people had rights,
    animals didn't though they should be respected.  Sometimes he makes me
    break out in a rash.
    
    Giudi

    hearing an acquaintance telling the group that she bought a male
    himmy kitten and now she wants to find a female to breed it to to 
    `get her money back'......aaarrrggghhhh!

    I feel like whining today because I'm totally frustrated.  
    
    I woke up this morning to the sound of cats "meowing" outside...
    I got up only to notice this small 7 month female kitty surrounded
    by 3 whole males.  Obviously many of my neighbors do not give a SH**
    about the over population problem...or truly care what happens
    to their cats..  I do not know the owners because if I did...
    I would have been knocking at their door at 5:00AM...I'm that
    frustrated.
    
    What is so frustrating for me is that I have committed myself to
    help the overpopulation of cats...I have set good clear expectation 
    by realizing I can't solve the world problem or even my cities 
    problems...but I truly felt I was solving my neighborhood problem.
    But obviously I am wrong.....new cats just keep showing up...and
    my own neighborhood problem is bigger then I can handle. 
    
    Most of you will say "just take her and fix her"...but that is not
    the answer.  I have fixed well over 15 neighborhood cats, have taken
    in over 8 of them, and at this point each one of my spare rooms
    (including my bathroom) already have cats confined in them.  I hate
    to admit that I have to shut my eyes to this particular problem...
    but I just can't deal with another cat at this time.  (ARGGGGGGGG)
    
    So...my plans are to write an editorial about the over-population
    problem and get it published in my local paper.  I want to get pretty
    gruesome and ask the folks if they ever saw a stray cat starving to
    death or a mother carrying a dead kitten...and I pray I will educate 
    just one person in my city.
    
    Thanks for letting me whine...it's been a bad day!!
    
     Sandy

    Hang in there, Sandy.  You have already done such a tremendous amount
    to help these babies.  This reminds me of someone who said, "There is
    such an overwhelming problem;  what difference does it make if you help
    one?" and someone answered "It matters to that one."
    

    RE:  91.28
    
    Okay...okay...so I can't ignore the problem but I can whine!!!
    All day yesterday my heart broke thinking about this little
    baby girl...I drove poor Roberta Kagno crazy...and I truly
    couldn't even get any work done!!!
    
    I drove in my yard last night...kind of praying/hoping the problem would
    go away but...the little girl was curled up in my chair on my porch.
    She saw me and came running over to me...purring up a storm.  I walked
    on my porch and got hit with the worse smell I have ever smelled.
    Obviously the little girl spent alot of time on my porch watching
    the spraying competition of the whole males!  (PHEW!!)  My own
    cats can't stand the porch now! 
    
    With tears in my eyes...I broke down and opened a can of cat food
    for her!  As she cobbled it up...she starting showing me her
    little "slut pose" and didn't give too hoots about the food!!!!  So
    yesterday morning I felt so bad thinking the males were attacking
    her and she didn't want it...wrong!!!!!
    
    My decision to help her is for a couple of reasons:  If I am going
    to ignore my neighborhood overpopulation problem I shouldn't start
    with a female in heat who will probably have her babies on my porch,
    (that would be pretty stupid) she is attracting every whole male
    from miles around and they are camping out on my porch, and she is
    so small and such a sweetheart!
    
    I have a couple of ideas....my first is to get her fixed asap and
    if she is pregnant..have the babies aborted, try to find her a new
    home immediately (after she is fixed,tested because I have no where
    to keep her), offer a nice contribution to a no kill shelter to
    take her, board her at my vets until we can find a home, or fix her 
    and let her free!  If she did have a home...well so be it...I truly
    don't care!!!
    
    Now the whine.....why are some folks so ignorant to animals. I was 
    thinking of asking some of my neighbors to get involved in a rescue
    mission in our woods...but what makes me believe these ignorant
    folks care about those cats...when they don't care about their
    own cats.   
    
    Sigh.....
    
    Sandy         

    Sandy, you're a Saint.  Didn't think you could ignore it myself.
    
    Don't give up on ALL of your neighbors; you may have some that would be
    willing to help (unless you only have one neighbor).
    
    I'll be glad to send you a contribution towards getting the little girl
    spayed (and the sooner the better) and off the top of my head can
    recommend a very nice no-kill shelter in your area (but I think you
    know which one I mean).  
    
    Contact me off line if you'd like.
    
    Pat & the Clan
    

    Ok, Sandy, I've got a newly aquired neighbor that has a little girl
    running around that's not been fixed.  The calling started about two
    months ago - I actually thought it was a child until I got a call
    from another neighbor, who has three cats, telling me that the little
    girl was in her back yard.  This woman has talked to the owner of the
    cat in a very reasonable way and they have paid no attention
    whatsoever.  All the males of the other neighbors have been fixed, BUT
    while I was feeding the ferals last Monday and Tuesday, I found a new
    addition - a luverly WHOLE MALE.  I don't know if he's been dumped,
    belonges to new neighbors, or what.  It's not going to take this boy
    long to hop a few fences and make his way up the street.  He has no
    I.D. or collar, so Gordon and I are going to have his little nutzies
    removed and return him to the garden.  
    
    It took us years to clean up the mess that was caused by irresponsible
    people and I'm not gonna let it happen again.  My neighbor with the
    three cats is going to try to talk to these people again - keep
    your fingers crossed.
    
    And you are a saint Sandy - hang in there.
    
    Giudi

    My god...what a little howler she is!!!  She is not interested in
    food or humans....but any cat that walks by has her full attention.
    Every day there is a new male cat sleeping with her on my chair...
    with another sitting on my porch.
    
    So for just that reason...I spoke to Priscilla from the PB shelter...
    and she has agree to take the little girl if I can pay for the
    medical bills.   Right now the shelter is in total dept to both
    our vets...and we are at our max again so we are not suppose to be 
    taking in any more cats right now.  But..thank god she will help me
    with this little one.
    
    Thanks so much for all the hugs, warmth and offers of donations
    to help this little girl.   This one...almost put me over the
    edge of losing it...but I'm back to earth now thanks to your
    support.
    
    As far as my neighborhood...well I only live about 1 mile from
    Fitchburg State Collage...so my guess is many of the strays wander
    through the woods to my neighborhood after they are dumped by the
    students. (Sad...but true)  Someone suggested flyers to be passed
    around the collage and my neighborhood...and I might just do that.
    I need to do something to make me feel better!!
    
    Again thanks a whole bunch!!
    
    SAndy

    Sandy,
    That's how I got my cat, Spike.  A Clark University student moved away
    and left him.  Isn't it nice to know these are the future leaders of
    our society?  
    Sarah

Perhaps you can get the univ. to help post notices about the problem, and
the pain it causes...and suggest that cat-loving students volunteer their
time at local cat shelters to help take care of homeless cats, rather than
making more homeless cats.  It might also be useful to post sources of
low-cost spay and neuter contracts in the area.

    Oh how frustrating....now that I worked to get the shelter to
    take the cat, made plans to deliver her to the vets Friday night, 
    and got some contributions for her medical bills....the little bugger
    disappeared on me Friday and I didn't see her all weekend!!
    
    My guess is that once she came out of heat...she probably strolled
    back home.  I'm frustrated now because I feel if I had acted faster...
    I would have prevented a litter of kittens to be born.  (sigh!!)
    
    But...I will keep my eyes open for her and hopefully she won't
    come back to have her litter on my porch!
    
    Whine whine whine...that's all I have been doing lately!!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy,
    
     You DESERVE to whine after all that's happened to you lately!! You
    should get a medal for actions above and beyond the call of duty! (or
    is that above and beyond the call of sanity? 8-} )
    
    Love,
    Y

    
    
    Sandy, I feel for you......that's how we felt last winter, every time
    we turned around, there was another un-neutered cat.  How frustrating!
    
    I seriously recommend that you try neutering these cats and releasing
    them, if these cats stick around they will definatly keep many others
    away, and you won't experience this heartache.  Sure many would love to
    come inside, but if you don't have a home for them, it's not fair to
    yourself to overburden yourself with this responsibility.  It's not
    fair to your current house cat population either.
    
    You can still help the overpopulation problem this way, as the
    occasional cat will still show up, but your not putting yourself
    in a bad position.
    
    I'm speaking from experience....we go through $25/week on dry cat food.
    That may not be alot for some folks, but it is the max that we can
    afford to feed these ferals.  If more show up , they'd starve.....and 
    we'd be broke.
    
    PLease, consider this option.......
    
    Michele
    
    p.s.
    
    none of the barn cats are suffering from the decisions we've made for
    them......your's won't either.

    I agree Michele...last year I never would have thought to abort
    kitties or wouldn't even have thought to trap, test, vaccinate, 
    neuter, and release a cat.    But after working for the shelter
    (seeing some sad sights) and dealing with the stray population in 
    my area...I realize this is all I can do for now.    
    
    I truly believe I have more of a problem this year..then last year
    because both the feral terrors of the neighborhood (VG and JC) have spent
    this winter napping in a warm cozy house and not out defending their
    territory.  
    
    The little female has yet to return...but her big strapping male
    friends are back!!  I also have to realize I can't help them all
    at once...but over time hopefully we can get them the medical 
    attention they need.
    
    I still plan on writing and editorial for my local newspaper...and
    atleast make copies of it and post it in my neighborhood as well
    as the college campus.   I'm committed to atleast doing that!
    
    Sandy
    

Speaking of ferals....my Momcat (and her new spouse...Beth's Dadcat) have
not been seen for several weeks.  It's not unusual for the Dadcat, but I
can't remember the Momcat disappearing for more than a few hours.  She was
dependent on me for food and she slept in the house I built for her on my
deck, so her prolonged absence is very unusual.  Poor critters........

Mary

    Well, I guess it's my turn. I had to bring Furby to the vet Friday, and
    while we were there, there was the sweetest little orange tiger kitty
    running around in the office. I thought it was a kitten, but the vet
    told me that it was full grown, and was small because it hadn't been
    fed properly, and was most probably abused. You'd never know he was
    abused though, because he loves EVERYONE! 
    
    He went on to tell me that he and his sister had been found in a
    cardboard box in a dumpster!!! The trash man heard them, and got them
    out before they were crushed!! He brought them to the vet, but the
    little girl had some kind of congenital problems and in her weakened
    condition didn't make it!
    
    How could anyone be so cruel as to put two kitties in a dumpster where
    they could actually be crushed to death if not found!!!!
    GGGGRRRRRRR!!!!!
    
    Thanks for listening. I really needed to growl a bit! It took me this
    long to be able to write this note without wanting to rip someone's
    head off!
    
    Love,
    
     Y
    

first, this is a warning!  If you don't want to read two stories about
kittens who were neglected or abused, then hit NEXT/UNSEEN NOW!!

Yvonne,

Unfortunately, I've found this a couple of times.  I had found a kitten 
a couple of years ago about 100 feet from my house in the woods.  It was
in a CLOSED cardboard box!  The poor baby couldn't get out!  she was a
beautiful tortie kitten!  Luckily I found her and found a good home for
her through this file.

Also, at one time I was at a country fair a few years ago.  I heard some 
comotion in the woods and decided to go check it out.  there were some
boys playing around a tree.  One had a baseball bet.  There was a  burlap bag
hanging from the tree.  One of the boys hit the bag with the bad and I heard
something come from the bag.  My boyfriend and I RAN at the boys and scared
them away.  We pulled the bag down and found four baby kittens in the
bag.  One had died because the bat had hit him on the head.  another
obviously had a broken leg.  I brought the three remaining kittens to the
vet and had them all check out.  Two were brown tabbys and one was a brown
tabby with white.  The dead kitten was a brown patch tabby.  

The vet fixed up the kitten's leg and I brought them home.  I found
homes for all of the three kittens.  

These are only the LUCKY kittens!  there are SO many cats and kittens
who aren't as lucky as these! )-:

Holly

    Holly,
    
     Thanks for those two stories, even though they were very sad. The fact
    that you did something to help the ones you could, helps renew some of
    my lagging faith in a great portion of humanity.
    
    Y

 >> One had a baseball bet.

Bet should be BAT!!

>>One of the boys hit the bag with the bad

bad should also be BAT!


Having problems with spelling BAT today!! )-:

    Feeling a little BATty?  ;^)
    
    K.C.

    I'm so sick of picking up the local paper every spring
    and seeing the "FREE KITTENS" ads!!!  (2 already in the paper)
    
    I want to call the number and yell:
    
    "Grow up, people!!!  Spay or neuter your pets!  Be responsible,
    not uncaring and/or ignorant!"
    
    Lynne
    

    Go get 'em Lynne!!!! 
    
    That is of course, only if the people were ignorant, and not trying to
    fix a problem someone else left on their doorsteps, as almost all of us
    have had done at one time or other. I think Sandy Merritt is going for
    the Guiness record for that situation! ;-)  
    
    Love,
    
     Y
    
     

        It just happened to me again too.  A real pretty tortie-girl 
    dumped.   Very pregnant.  What to do?  Guess I'll have to get her
    to the vet for a checkup........how can you tell when she's due?
    Her belly is enormous, nipples very large.  She's at the waddling
    stage.  Very hungry,  looks like she had been well fed before someone
    realized she was prego.  I'll have to set up something for her inside.
    Can't have those poor little babies outside.  Oh gosh,  the poor little
    girl.  The poor kittens.  How can we find homes?  There's already 
    so many homeless.
    
        Denise and the gang of 11  or is it 12 - and counting!!!
    

    I do love the spring time...BUT I hate the thought of kitten
    season and so many unwanted kittens being born!   It truly is amazing 
    how many jacka** are out in this world.
    
    I am in the process of writing an article to the editor of our
    newspaper.....I just need to deal with my frustration by telling
    folks the truth about what happens to their unwanted kittens or
    cat that they have abondoned.  I just have to be very careful how
    I word it...or it will never get printed.   
    
    I don't know about me going for the record...there are a couple of
    other "nutso's" out there in the notesfile who are keeping right
    up with me!!  Mary said it best..."there is a place in heaven for
    us...but it is probably by the kitty litter".  WEll...I can't think
    of a nicer place to be...I'd much prefer to deal with kitty litter
    then some of the jacka** here on earth!!
    
    Sandy (who has reached her limit?????  that's what I said when I
           reached 7 but have made it to 10 this winter!!)
    
    

    My dog (Omega) had her yearly "tune-up" at the vet's on Monday, and the
    assistant told me this curious story.  Last Thursday a woman brought a
    stray cat in, claiming it had been hanging around and she didn't know
    who it belonged to.  Since the office was full and very hectic, the
    assistant put the cat in a cage and went back to work.  An hour later,
    when she had time to go back and give the cat some litter, water, and
    food, the cat was no longer alone -- she had two kittens, with one more
    on the way.  
    
    So, of course, Omega and I had to go and see them.  I've never seen
    kitten babies before -- yikes, are they cute!  And the mother cat
    didn't seem to mind the dog, even when I was holding one of her babies
    and Omega was snuffling it.
    
    Jo-Ann

    Some people should be run off the face of the planet!
    
    I was getting ready for work and walked out to my closet to get the
    dress I wanted to wear.  My closet is in my front entry way.  I happen
    to look out the window and I see a little bunny sitting across the
    road.  I threw my bathrobe on went downstairs and woke up the tenant.
    I informed him that his rabbit was lose and at that moment was hopping
    down the road towards the main drag from the highway to main street.
    His response "oh he got out a few days ago and won't come when we call
    him so %$#%# him".  I smiled sweetly through gritted teeth apologi<ed
    for waking this jerk up and then went upstairs swearing.  I had a
    friend call the animal control officer to see if they can catch it
    before it ends up a road pizza.
    
    The rabbit was bought for Easter and now it's running lose and the poor
    thing must be scared to death not to mention hungry.  The jerk and his
    wife wanted to take one of the kittens I rescued and am going to place
    for adoption there is no way in h#@$ I'm giving a defenseless kitten to
    him.

    Last year 3 or 4 little bunnies were let loose in my in-law's complex. 
    It was really upsetting.  
    
    Giudi

    I don't know if this is a whine or not, but I feel like talking about
    it.
    
    I have rescued many homeless cats in my lifetime, and all have been
    plain old, heinz 57 variety kitties.... no special markings or
    resemblence of any particular breed.  I always joked around with Sandy
    Merritt saying I wish one day a purebred or apparent purebred would
    show up at my door needing help.
    
    Well, last night, my little joke came true.
    
    I had gone out for a walk and upon arriving home, was talking in the
    driveway with my husband.  I happened to glance over into our backyard
    and saw a longhaired, bluepoint cat climbing the hill.  I said to Dana,
    "Look!  There's a purebred Himalayan cat in our yard, or at least in
    looks like one!!" and took off to follow it.  He was timid, but
    curious, and he looked kind of scruffy.  TK and Nikki were right on my
    heels and  I think that's why the cat kept running away.  Nikki tried
    to "talk" to him (saying, "we don't want anymore cats!" no doubt) and
    the cat seemed pretty defensless, but very curious.  I went into the
    house for a can of food and offered it to him.  He came right over and
    bolted it down hungrily.  I patted him and noticed he had several very
    large matts in his coat as well as ticks.  So, being the brave person I
    am, took a chance and picked him up by the scruff supporting his back
    legs with my other hand, carried him into the garage and closed the
    door.  He was very mellow.  I then went into the house for more food
    and litter while figuring out what to do.  I didn't know if this cat
    had a home, as it was the first time I have ever seen him, but he
    obviously didn't look very well taken care of.  I decided to give my
    housecall vet a call and see if she could offer some input on how to
    handle this.   We decided she would come over and access the
    situation..... was he neutered?  how bad were his matts?  was he
    malnourished?
    
    When she got to the house (9:30 p.m.!) she said he looked and felt very
    healthy despite the matts, and she didn't even think they were that
    bad.  She shaved them off to make him more comfortable, removed the
    ticks, and mentioned that he wasn't neutered.  This bothered me.  Here
    was a very friendly cat who was a doll throughout being shaved and
    fussed over, not neutered, but could still quite possibly have a home. 
    The vet didn't feel right taking him to her clinic and fixing him up
    without having me first do some investigating as to whether or not
    someone owned him or if he got lost and wandered in.  We decided to put
    a flea and tick collar on him (breakaway, and he didn't mind it a bit)
    with a note to call me if he is owned by someone.  I put food on the
    front step for him and let him out of the garage.  He seemed happy to
    be free, and just sat with me for awhile after the vet left, ate the
    food, and went to the backyard while I went into the house and got
    ready for bed.  I didn't see him this morning, and kind of hope he
    returns.  I have called the Worcester Animal Rescue League and the Lost
    & Found from the local paper and no one advertised a lost bluepoint
    cat.  I will post fliers in the complex and see if it generates any
    response.  If not, and he is still hanging around, I plan to have him
    all fixed up and maybe adopt him out.  Knowing me though, I'll probably
    end up keeping him, but if anyone would like a gorgeous apparent
    purebred Himalayan with a "normal" cat face and blue (grey)
    colorpoints (and of course blue eyes!), I'll think about parting with
    the big guy.  Dana and I are separating effective August 1st, and I
    don't think now is the time to add another cat.  He's keeping TK and
    Nikki, and I'm taking Herbie, Taja, and Kelsey to a beautiful,
    cats-allowed apartment complex in Shrewsbury.  Lots of changes coming
    up, but hopefully they won't be too impacting to the cats.
    
    -Roberta
    
    
    

    To update my previous entry here, the cat described is indeed a
    purebred Himalayan.  His owner called me last Saturday after reading my
    name and number on his collar.
    
    He is 2 years old and definitely not fixed.  She seemed to want to do
    right by him but just didn't know a lot about cats, especially purebred
    cats.  She had tried to work out his matts and thanked me profusely for
    shaving him.  She had been bathing him all last summer but with him going
    out in the winter and growing a thick coat, she couldn't keep up with
    it and he matted.
    
    He was given to her by her sister who wanted to breed, then moved to
    Alaska.  She (the owner) just left him whole, not realizing that the
    yowling and spraying she was complaining to me about was indicative of
    that.  I gave her a brief education about how neutering will make him a
    much better pet, and he'll stay closer to home as a result (she won't
    keep him inside and he's much too used to the outdoors now).  She lives
    in a completely different neighborhood than us!  She mentioned how she
    just paid $140 to spay her dog and I told her that neutering a cat will
    be a drop in the bucket compared to that.  She said she would think
    about it.  Hopefully she will!
    
    His name is Rocky, and he's been visiting me all week, mooching the
    food on the deck and trying to suck up.  I really want to steal him and
    have him fixed myself; he is much too beautiful and sweet and I'm
    growing very attached to him.  Because I forgot to take his owner's
    name and number, I'll have to put another note in his collar.  I'd like
    to try once more in a few weeks to encourage her to have him fixed.
    
    Sigh......
    
    
    -Roberta
    

    Okay, I just have to get this off my chest.
    
    My neighbors (I don't know them very well at all) have the most 
    delightful brown tabby male kitty.  His name is Ariel (they didn't 
    know if it was a girl or boy when they got it and the children 
    named him).  I didn't find out his name until this weekend.  I've
    been calling him Sampson.  He has one huge set of male appendages
    (I don't know how they could have missed them).
    
    Anyway, during my search for a stray kitten I'd seen running around
    the hallway of my apartment, I happened on these people's apartment
    on a tip from one of the neighborhood kids.  The man knew who the
    kitten belonged to because he had just acquired a little female
    calico from them.  They neighborhood kid had told me they were going
    to make this kitten Ariel's wife (if you know what I mean).  Well,
    I mentioned to this man that his male kitty should be neutered and
    he passed it off like I hadn't said anything.
    
    This past weekend I was in the pool nursing a strained back and they
    were all hanging around the pool.  I asked the woman what brown tabby's
    name was and she replied with Ariel and told me the story of them not
    knowing it was a boy at first.  She told me they had just gotten a 
    female and I told her she should get Ariel neutered or they'd have
    lots of little kitties running around in the near future.  This is
    when she told me that they had planned to let the two kitties have at
    least one litter.  Aarrrgghhh!
    
    Great.  The person they got the calico from still has 2 kittens to
    place.  My sister is trying to place the 3 she found.  The humane
    society is overflowing with cats needing homes and they just want
    to have a litter of kittens.  Get a clue folks!
    
    I really don't know if there is anything I can do.  They don't seem
    receptive to the spay/neuter idea.  If I take Ariel in to be fixed
    I'm sure they're going to know who did it.  I have to live near the
    people so I don't want to make enemies.  Besides, the complex I live
    in is not exactly the most friendly of places and there are some tough
    looking folks living there (including these people).  
    
    Next time I'm near the Humane Society I'm going to pick up some 
    literature and post it on the bulletin boards in the laundry rooms.  
    Once before I picked some up and gave it to the manager and it was 
    never seen again.  Funny she has 7 cats now since she took in the last 
    stray litter, you think she'd want everyone to spay/neuter. 
    
    Well, I don't feel alot better but it does help some to get this off
    my chest.
    
    Jan

    Jan...I'd like to whine with you.   It is so sad that some folks
    just don't get it.   We also have a person down the road (thank
    god she don't live next door) and twice a year she posts notes
    outside her house "Free Kittens".  I stopped there one day...just
    to "snoop" and walked into her house.  she pointed to her living
    room where the kittens were and said "take as many as you want".  
    She then walked away..she could have cared less what happened to 
    those kittens. 
    
    Well here's where I got the scoop...her kids informed me that the
    big gray female is the grandmother and she has had numerous
    litters, and the black cat was the mother...who had XXX litters.
    I just walked away crying......
    
    You can try to educate them...but sometimes you just can't educate 
    the ignorant!   I'd like them to spend 2 days at the shelter seeing
    all the beautiful faces looking for so much attention or having
    to answer the phone and turning down cases of the sadest stories 
    you will ever hear....one after another after another.   But..what 
    makes me think that would even bother them!     
    
    Gee I'm in a whining mood today.....on my way to work I saw one
    dead cat that got hit by a car.....and then on Rt 190 I saw this
    wild cat (alive) in the middle of the meridian hunting.  I wanted to stop...
    (so bad) but realize that as soon as I approach it...I'm sure it
    would run to the heavy traffic.  God...what a terrible way to start 
    your day!  Kitty prayers for these two cats.....
    
  
    Sandy
    
    

    Kitty prayers for ALL of the unfortunate felines!
    
    K.C.

    Jan...I found the perfect pamphlet (thanks to the Pat Brody Shelter)
    for you to hang on the bulletin board in your complex.   This pamphlet
    was put out by Pet pride on spaying/neutering cats.  If you or anyone
    else would like a copy...let me know. (off-line)  It's a GREAT pamphlet 
    that should be put up in every shelter, vets office, pet supply store...or
    sent to some of the more uneducated humans!
    
    The Top title in big letters read:   A R E     Y O U    G U I L T Y ??  
    
    A small paragraph talks about million of unwanted and homeless cats are
    born and during peak periods of kitten seasons unwanted cats are
    killed at the rate of ONE PER MINUTE.   And those that are left to
    wander are prey for aminals, targets for automobiles, and easily
    marks for cruel pranksters.  It goes on to talk about if they
    survive these hazards they soon attain maturity and add to the 
    over-population rate.  The last sentance reads " Every cat owner
    who pet is unspayed or unneutered and allowed to roam free must 
    bear the guilt for the terrible over-population.
    
    It then states: Two uncontrolled breeding cats plus all thier kittens
    and all thier kittens kittens (if none are ever neutered/spayed) add up
    to:  2 liters per year per female, 2.8 surviving kittens per litter,
    and in 10 years how two unfixed cats can multiply to 80 million cats.
    
    The picture shows a kitty pyramid (all kitty faces) starting with 
    2 cats....and showing by the ninth year there can be 13,958.290. 
    
    
    Sandy....
    
      

My whine concerns cat show entry clerks who seem to forget that exhibitors 
are their club's customers.  When I've had to call entry clerks re. 
corrections to confirmation info., the clerks in general were polite and 
helpful.  However, a couple of them have been downright rude.  These 
confirmations need to be correct for show catalogs.

I think they should be reminded by their clubs of the importance of courtesy
to their exhibitors.  Granted the entry clerks have a very busy and 
sometimes difficult job getting all the information in by their deadlines, 
but this is no reason to be rude to exhibitors who bring in their club's $.

Pat

With reference to cat shows and being courteous to visitors, I think it would
be EXTREMELY helpful to have large signs posted at every cat show at the 
entrance as well as the entry clerk's desk stating the following:

	      A FRIENDLY REMINDER TO OUR VISITORS

	 PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH OR PET ANY OF THE SHOW CATS. 
	    THIS REQUEST IS MADE TO PREVENT SPREADING
               OF DISEASES FROM ONE CAT TO ANOTHER.

				THANK YOU AND ENJOY THE SHOW.
				SHOW MANAGEMENT AND EXHIBITORS


Visitors to show halls have too often made the mistake of reaching to 
pet a friendly cat or kitten only to be reprimanded severely by the 
owner.  This way the visiting adults, along with their children, would 
be forewarned and given the reason why they should refrain from touching 
the show cats.

I know of a recent instance where a mentally retarded child visiting a 
local show was yelled at by an exhibitor causing the child to cry and 
become very upset.  Had the adult with this child seen such a notice 
before coming into hall, this could have been avoided.

Pat
    

    Additional whine:...
    
    Children must be leashed at all times!
    
    

    I personally feel there are too many rude exhibitors at shows, and it
    was one of the reasons I stopped showing my cats.  It never ceased to
    amaze me why breeders would want to alienate the very people who help
    promote their catteries by purchasing their cats and attending their
    shows.
    
    Although I am not a breeder, I am a subscriber to several breed
    newsletters, and often receive calls from folks who think I'm a breeder
    and inquire about kittens.  After explaining to them that I don't
    breed, and refer them to people who do, it shocks me to hear that they
    already contacted <person or people> I referred and received either
    snotty attitudes or the brush off due to lack of time on the breeders
    part.  Lack of time?  If a breeder does not have time to devote to
    their buying public then how the heck do they expect to sell cats? 
    Other complaints I hear are breeders who promise to send photos and
    never do, or don't return phone calls.  Don't they realize how
    disappointing this is?  I once had a woman tell me (a very sweet,
    eldery woman) how she ran out to her mailbox every single day to check
    for pictures from the breeder and was so upset because they never
    arrived.  All I could do was tell her to keep trying other breeders
    until she found someone who was patient, understanding, and followed
    through with their promises.
    
    While I am griping, another thing that amazes me is how I remember
    spending $350 plus for purebred cats, followed through with my
    promises to send pictures, spent money on phone calls, wrote letters,
    and even shelled out good money to have professional photos taken so I
    could surprise the breeders with copies, and never once did I receive
    an acknowledgement or a thank you.  No, I take that back.  One breeder
    did; one that would be considered a "backyard breeder" by many folks in
    this conference because she is not active in the cat fancy.  She is the
    only one who took the time to answer my letters and say thank you for
    the pictures.  I can't even put into words just how much this
    appreciation meant to me.
    
    A little etiquette goes a long way.  I wish all breeders would treat
    their buying public with the respect and courtesy they want those
    buyers to show toward their kittens upon sale.
    
    -Roberta
       

    That's a really good idea, Pat.  I'll see about possibly having a sign
    like that for the Framingham show and the Marlboro show. 
    
    Thanks for the suggestion!  Sometimes, that's all it takes.
    
    Holly
    

    
    roberta,
    
    Please remember, that breeders ARE people, so they're NOT all alike. 
    They also deal with MANY people who buy their kittens and just may not
    have time to write to/call each and every person that they've sold a
    kitten to.
    
    I'm just starting breeding now .. my first litter of Turkish Angoras is
    due the beginning of October.  I'm hoping NOT to be like the people
    whom you have talked about, and for the first few litters, I probably
    won't.  But you're dealing with people who have been breeding for years
    and have had HUNDREDS of kittens.  They certainly can't keep up with
    EVERY kitten they've ever sold.
    
    Holly
    

    well said Roe!
                
    I was going to enter a long reply, but changed my mind.....you said it
    well enough!

    
    Thanks, Holly.  That would be great.  I don't know why this hasn't been
    done before, actually.
    
    Pat
    

    Holly,
    
    I wasn't implying that breeders should account for every single kitten
    they sell over X number of years of breeding.  I simply feel that if
    a kitten buyer takes the time to send a letter with photos, it should
    be acknowledged with a thank you.
    
    We sign a contract that states all sorts of do's and don'ts.  We adhere
    to it, and the majority of us spay and neuter our pet cats at the
    appropriate time and age.  Yet when we inform the breeder of said
    surgery, how many actually follow through PROMPTLY with the paperwork
    (pedigree) they promise?  Judging by the entries I've seen in Feline
    V1, and ramdomly speaking with pet buyers of various breeds, many
    breeders are grossly remiss in holding up their end of the bargain. 
    I'm just sick of the "We're too busy excuse."  If you can't finish all
    the food on your plate then for goodness sakes, put some back!
    
    Although I am no longer involved with the shows, I do correspond with a lot
    of pet buyers like myself who need a supportive ear.  I'm just passing
    along what I have learned in the hopes it might make a difference.
    
    -Roberta
     

    I can understand that, Roberta.  Some people ARE a bit "aloof" when it
    comes to sending paperwork in.  I'm hoping that will not be the case
    with me (probably not.  I know how I would feel).  Most of the breeders
    I've dealt with have been pretty good, except for one.  It did take a
    while to get Silver's papers, but I finally got them.
    
    I hope that I WILL acknowledge any photos sent to me as I will treasure
    them, I'm sure!  It's going to be AUFULLY difficult to give up kittens!  
    
    Holly
    

    I was at the Fitchburg show this weekend and a woman came by asking
    about my cats. She was probably within a foot of the cage, asking
    questions. I politely answered her questions, and then she says, "You
    know, you're the nicest person/breeder I've talked to all day. Most of
    these people seem to not want to give me the time of day!" I told her
    that I've been told that, and that there are some exhibitors that don't
    use common courtesty, but that I loved to come to shows and meet
    people, and tell them about my cat!
    
    Maybe I'm one of the rare 'breed' (me, not the cats! ;^)  ) Personally,
    I've considered a good number of the breeders hung up on themselves,
    and that exhibitors are a nuisance, and I sometimes feel the same. But
    why be rude to someone who thinks your cat is the prettiest animal
    they've seen yet? I WELCOME inquiries! Guess I'm the weird one!
    
    Cheryl

    I also went to the Fitchburg show this weekend.  Afterall I had a guest
    that was entered.  It was interesting.  I have to admit this was my
    very first show.  I was surprised at how many of the breeders were
    rude.  My boyfriend wants a persian kitten and I was looking to see
    which breeders had kittens for sale.  Most of them just ignored me
    totally, the two that did talk to me were okay.  One was kinda
    patronizing and the other was stand offish until I mentioned it was for
    my boyfriend then she got really friendly.  I guess I just didn't pass
    her standards.  (good thing I'm not a furball!)  I just thought I was
    being overly sensitive but after reading some of these replies I guess
    not.  
    
    Hey Cheryl did that maine coon make any more breaks for freedom?  
    
    And I also apologize profusely for mistaking a Russian Blue for a
    Korat.  I'm still new to all the different breeds.  :^)
    
    Kim

  I really only got a chance to talk to one of the exhibitors who appeared very
friendly. He breeds Persians but he was not local to here. I forget exactly
where he was from but it was one of the Southern Atlantic states. I don't know
if you happened to talk to him. He took the time to answer a number of questions
on both Persians and on general cat topics which we had.

  I became a kitten owner as of a week ago and this was the first show that I
was at. I may have been under the wrong impression but I had figured that I
would find more there than I did as far as vendors. Is this typical of these
shows or are there larger ones to be found.

    There are larger ones. As a matter of fact, I'm going to the National
    Capital Cat show in Arlington, VA. So far, there are 420 cats/kittens
    registered, and there will be approximately 40-50 vendors!
    
    Cheryl

    
    I just had to comment on this one!  So many thoughts, so little time...
    
        re: paperwork and pedigrees  
        
        Bailey has owned me for 3, count them 1-2-3 years and I still do
        not have a pedigree!  This is an on-going thing with me and Mama
        Cin.  Maybe someday as a surprise she will send it, but I am not
        holding my breath.  It used to bug me a little, but now I am
        looking at it from a different perspective.  Unless you are
        purchasing a kitten/cat for breeding purposes and need to see the 
        lines that you are working with, the only document that is worth the 
        paper that it is printed on is the registration paper.  A pedigree
        is a nice thing to have, you can sit and count the number of "GRC's" 
        on a piece of paper, but what does it REALLY mean?  I wouldn't love 
        Bailey any less or think he was not "worth" the price that I paid for 
        him if I found out that he didn't have "X" amount of titles in his 
        pedigree.  All that matters to me is that I have a paper from CFA 
        that says he belongs to moi...
        
        re:  twitchy exhibitors
        
        A show hall is like a slice of life.  There are the good, the bad,
        and the ugly, and there is not too much we can do about any of it 
        except how we behave ourselves.  I have experienced it from the 
        outside and the inside and both scenarios have had their moments.  
        My feeling is what goes around, comes around.  Everyone gets theirs
        in the end, but unfortunately some people just get away with it 
        longer than others...
    
        
     
        
        

    Re: Nasty Breeders
    
    It really makes you wonder if they are just as nasty and cold to the
    animals they are breeding.  I've seen shows that tell the horror
    stories of professional Breeding places like Docktors Pet Center.  The
    way they are treated, it's lucky they come out alive.  Maybe a passing
    threat to call the humane society while in front of those nasty, rude
    breeders might change their minds about how they treat you.  Probably
    not but it sounds like these people have been doing this for years and
    they no longer have a love for it anymore.  So instead of stopping and
    just enjoying the cat(s) they have; they gripe, complain and become
    very rude to spectators.
    
    Where is that show going to be in Alexandria, VA and when?  I'd sure
    love to go to that one!   Thanks...

reply .62

I hear you Roberta!!!!

Infact about 3 months ago I recieved a call from a 
woman who met me at a local cat show who was looking to purchase a 
Cat possibly a Himmy.  She told me that their were many beautiful cats 
there at the show and she commented to the breeders how nice they were, 
but not one of them took the time to even acknowledge her or even say thank 
you  to the compliement.  She mentioned that I was the only person at the 
show that took the time to take the cat out of the cage, talk to her about 
the breed/ standard/personality/care answer a zillon questions.  And because of 
this she has been willing to wait months for an upcoming kitten from me.

I remember this show because by the end of the day Sunday I had lost my voice 
talking with so many people. 

At the shows I take Beau out for everyone who would like a closer look.  
It always draws a big crowd around.  I enjoy showing off my boy, I like 
the ooos and ooohs.  Because I love Himmys  I love to talk cats and  
educate people about the breed, answering question, about the cats and 
the cat show.  Most spectators know very little about what goes on at a 
cat show, how the cats are judged, how points are scored, what the different 
ribbons mean, ect.  It's all so new and exciting for them.

My husband chuckles to himself and says "here she goes again",
when I take Beau out and a crowd would gather and I would start my little 
speach about the Himalayan answer many questions and  then the 
crowd leaves and another crowd gathers and I'd start again.  You begin to  
feel like an attraction at Disney World.  My husband says he could never 
do that, just talk to complete strangers the way I do.  I guess that's 
where my sales and marketing background comes in handy.  You do make 
many many contacts, and people do remember you.  If you treat everyone 
as a friend and a potential customer when it comes time for them to 
purchase a cat I hope they'll remember that woman at the show who was so 
friendly and spent so much time with them answering all their 
questions.    So far its paying off.  

I also feel the same way when people come to see kittens.  In the past I 
have purchased cats from breeders who just say "well here they are, pick 
one".  Never giving any insight on the different kittens, explaining 
colors, pedigrees, the positive characteristics about the different kittens.  
Explaining to them what they are getting for their money and why they are 
worth the price.  They had been absolutely no help to me at all.  In the 
early days it would of been nice to have a little help from  an 
experienced breeder.  On the other hand, when you come to my house to see 
kittens plan on at leat 2-3 hours of looking at kittens, looking at pictures 
of parents/grandparents, other cats with similar lines ect.  A complete 
explanation of the breed standard, what to look for, and what to look 
out for.  But most of all playing and observing all the babies to find 
the kitten that's right for you.  By the way I keep in contact with all 
the owners who buy my kittens.  I love to see pictures of them when 
their grown and keep in touch with how they are doing.  I too am 
disappointed when you send out cards/letters and pictures and people 
don't even respond.



Valerie (who's working to change the typical exibitor attitude)

I'm sure a lot of breeders/exhibitors hate to deal with those people who want 
to breed their pet Simease to your Himmy and think that's what makes a 
pointed exotic 8-)  

    Well there are bad people and good people...and there are happy
    breeders and rude breeders.
    
    I have attended many shows representing the shelter...and there
    are many breeders who do not feel we belong there...and there are
    other breeders who go way out of their way to make us feel wanted.
    
    I have learned NOT to walk by the cages...look at the cats...ask
    questions about the breeds...or for that fact even tell somebody
    that I think they have the most gorgeous cat in the world.   That
    is very hard for me...because if you knew me you'd know I can
    strike up a conversation with a table!!   But...I have learned
    that if they smile and want to talk to spectators...those
    are the ones that I seek out when we are at shows!!
    
    Then you have a breeder like Karen Fallon who has asked our
    shelter volunteers to be the stewards for the upcomming show in 
    Boxborough!!! They normally ask the boy scouts to do this...but thought 
    theywould offer the money to the shelter!!!!  WE are excited!!!!
    And then of course you have NDC and Cindy Gerry who both have
    helped out shelter out in the past. 
    
    So as far as the rude ones....poop on them..who needs em!!!!!
    
    Sandy

    As an exhibitor, I too, get rude treatment! Having a minority breed
    doesn't help, either! There have been MANY occasions that I have tried
    to strike up a conversation with the exhibitor benched next to me, only
    to be snubbed off! Needless to say, I try to keep my conversations to a
    minimum with this person. It also makes for a very quiet, boring day.
    What's REALLY funny, is that they won't talk to you till you final your
    cat! Suddenly, everyone wants to be with a winner!
    
    This past weekend in Fitchburg, I had a VERY nice exhibitor to my
    right. She was showing her Brittish Shorthairs -- her second show. She
    had a LOT of questions regarding the judging, spectators, cat's
    attitudes -- and she was VERY interested in the whole process! The
    breeder whom she bought her cats with was there, but really didn't give
    her much feedback on some of the problems she was having. However, I
    gave her what I thought was good advice, and she was very appreciative
    of it! 
    
    I, too, am trying to break the stereotype mode of 'snobbish' breeders.
    At the show in Arlington, VA in 2 weeks, I heard it's a HUGE show, that
    anyone who's trying to get a National Winner will be there, so I'm
    ASUMING that most of the snobs will be there. Then there's me -- the
    woman with the Korats. And not ONLY will I have 2 adults, but 2
    kittens! I'm sure I'll get a LOT of people stopping to see the babies!
    Most people LOVE to see kittens!
    
    Most of these breeders, from what I've noticed at the show, treat their
    animals 1000% better than they treat humans. Heck, I treat my cats
    better than I treat my husband! There are some breeders that I feel get
    so wrapped up in the competition, they're not there to promote their
    breed, they're there to see how many finals they can make in one
    weekend. Granted, that's a reason I go! HOWEVER, why be nasty to the
    spectators who came to tell you how beautiful your cat is! That you
    must be doing something right in your breeding program!
    
    Enough of my rambling! I could keep going on and on and on.....but
    there is NO excuse for the behavior of those snobbish breeders. I just
    hope my P.A. and Robbie beat the stud pants off their cats! ;^)
    
    BTW: The Arlington, VA show is called the National Capital Cat show. If
    anyone is interested (who reads this and are in the
    Maryland/DC/Virginia area) send me mail and I'll send directions. It's
    a HUGE show!
    
    Cheryl

    As so many of you have said, a cat show is a slice of life, and it
    takes all kinds.  Some breeders may be having a bad day, week, life,
    and may be totally different the next day.
    
    One thing I did want to say, as a breeder that tries her best to be
    friendly to everyone that comes by, even the ones that like to argue
    with me about what breed of cat I am showing, a muttered threat about
    reporting a breeder to a humane organization isn't going to help
    anything.  In fact, a case could be made that with the wave of
    anti-breeding sentiment that is going around, the threat of having the
    local authorities on your tail has many breeders gun shy about opening
    up to specators.
    
    I have been involved with our county's Animal Advisory Commission for
    about a year now.  We have animal activists pushing for mandatory
    spay/neuter and anti-breeder legislation at our meetings every month,
    and they have certainly changed my whole attitude towards the public.
    I am much more reserved now, much more cautious.  I do not put out
    business cards at shows anymore.  I will talk at length about my
    breed, but I do not readily give out information about upcoming
    litters, etc. to spectators.  Likewise I am cautious on the phone when
    people call asking if I have any kittens for sale.  I have personally
    witnessed breeders being harassed at shows by animal activists.  I have
    seen activists going down the rows picking up cards of each and every
    breeder (consider why they may be doing that??), and I have been at
    shows that have been picketed.  If that won't jade you I don't know
    what will.
    
    Anyway, just as there are nasty breeders, there are nasty members of
    the public.  I know that it is tempting to just bash some breeders as
    being snobs, but consider that there may be a whole lot more to it than
    meets the eye.
    
    Most breeders take excellent care of their cats, but most have more
    cats than local ordinances allow.  So, any threat of turning them in to
    the humane society could put them into a panic.  Panic stricken people
    generally are not friendly and outgoing.
    
    Jo

    Jo,
    
    Did you ever consider moving out to the east coast? I mean, I could
    REALLY use someone like you in this area! You've always been a world of
    help with me, and I just hope it continues (i.e. continued employment
    at DEC!) Anyhow, consider it -- there's no major earthquakes here...
    ;^)
    
    BTW: I agree with your reply!
    
    Cheryl

    Whine Whine Whine.....
    
    Just when you think you are in control....all the pieces fall apart!
    As of this summer..believe it or not....my neighborhood has been
    stray free.  Oh what a wonderful feeling!!!!!  I still have a
    few neighborhood kitties that stroll over for a bit to eat and a
    pat...but that is about it.
    
    But over the weekend...we noticed one of the neighborhood kitties
    (who I still swear has a home) came walking on my porch with a
    big deep whole in his chin and a chunk of fur hanging down.  It
    appears that he got bit...or maybe it was an abscess that broke.
    Well...we have been washing the cut and putting some oinment (which
    I got from my vet for J.C. Abscess last month) and it appears to
    be healing nicely.  We are keeping our eye on his cut...and I will
    bring him to my vet if I have to!!
    
    The next tragedy came when another neighborhood kitty who only comes
    by once in awhile...stopped by and I noticed the biggest bump on the
    left side of his face.  It is affecting the eye which is almost closed
    and it looks so painful.  Well...I'm really bummed because this guy
    won't even let us close to him and he only shows up on occasion.  He
    definitely needs some medical help....NOW!   We are keeping an eye
    out for him so we can capture him on our porch and bring him to our
    own vet. This cat is a gorgeous HUGE brown/white longhaired male..
    he has a collar...a beautiful coat...so I always assumed he had a home.  
    
    Now...my WHINE...why can't people take care of their animals.  I can
    just picture them saying...OH look at the bump..doesn't that look 
    awful...oh it's just an animal!! Don't they realize that they feel
    pain too!!    I can't wait for the day animals rule the world!! 
    
    Sandy (9 + who knows how many more!!)
    
    

    One very pregnant, wheezing, undernourished, very friendly and people
    oriented, could be very beautiful, tortie and maine coon lookalike,
    kitty was dropped off at the barn this weekend.  Kittens due any day
    now.......

    Michele...sigh sigh sigh!  Thank god she found you!
    
    Sandy

    Arrghh!  I think I really need to be over in the Primal Scream
    note in WOMANNOTES but since this is about cats...
    
    One of my neighbors (who I have been trying to convince to neuter
    her male cat, and who recently got a female so the male could produce
    a litter) recently moved away.  Last night I was amazed to find a
    kitten that looked very similar to the one she just got walking on
    the top of a fence near my apartment.  Another neighbor told me that 
    they thought the family had moved away and left her behind.  So, I 
    took kitty to my patio and fixed her up with food, water and a neat
    cardboard box with a couple of warm pieces of material in it so
    she would have a place to go while I figured out what to do next.
    (I'm in a tiny 1 bedroom with 4 cats of my own.)  While I was
    fussing with the little cutie up walks the male cat.
    
    This #&%*$^($(^ woman and her family have moved away and left both
    cats behind.  I could just scream.  They took their gosh-darned
    Shar-Pei dog with them but not the cats.  I can't put into words
    suitable for this file just what I'd like to do to these people.
    They have 2 children and it appalls me that the kids are learning
    it is okay to leave the animals behind.  
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  Now to note 4.0 to post an adoption notice.

    Jan, don't you already have other foster babies from dimwitted
    neighbors, or is that Jo?  Can these people be reported to the county
    animal authorities, or would that result in the 2 cats being taken off
    to the pound?
    

    RE: .83
    
    GGGGGGGRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!  Reading such notes like .83 really makes me
    peeeved!!!  I can't believe that people can be SO irresponsible!!  I
    can imagine what their kids will grow up thinking!! 
    AAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
    
    Jan, I'm so glad that these babies found you.  Obviously they knew that
    they were finding a cat lover who will find them a DECENT home!  Their
    former owners aren't worth the dirt they **** in!!!
    
    Holly
    

    Karen,
    
    Jo had the 3 cats and she placed them just about a 2 weeks ago.
    I have placed approx. 6 cats from my neighborhood already.  The people
    in my complex (with a few exceptions) are total idiots when it comes 
    to responsible pet ownership.
    
    I'm not sure if the authorities would run the cats to the Humane
    Society or not.  I'd like to see them get a better chance at a home
    than that.  I'm going to talk to the apartment manager (another cat
    lover) and see if they left a forwarding address.  Maybe we'll get
    someone after them if possible.
    
    I placed copies (on bright yellow paper) of a flyer someone from this
    file sent me in each of our laundry rooms.  The flyer lists how two
    uncontrolled cats and their offspring can produce a gazillion cats.
    So far the flyer remains up in 3 out of 4 of the laundry rooms.  In
    the 4th (and closest to my apartment) someone has ripped it off the
    wall twice now.  Little do they know that I am going to keep putting
    up copies until they get tired of ripping them down.  ;-)
    
    Now I have to go find a place to type some good news about another cat
    I placed.
    
    Jan
                                   

    Re: .83

    Would I scream about this? No, people like this activate my urge to KILL!

    Jan, it sounds like you are running your own shelter! You will go 
    straight to heaven for all your good deeds, I'm sure!

    Linda

    Thanks, everyone, for the kind words.
    
    Jan

    This is a whine of a different color!  I just found out after waiting
    patiently and with no return phone calls that I was not entered in a
    show next weekend.  It figures! The only show once a year that I have
    made all kinds of plans for with many people, not to mention the cats
    to be shown.  I feel that that g*****mn entry clerk should be pulled
    from the clerking program.  Another person who I was going to be
    agenting for specifically left messages to be called back collect if
    there would be any problem with one of us not making it.  I called
    twice myself. Both entries were mailed on the same day.  Another friend
    sent hers overnite express on the last day of entry and made it in. 
    This really p***** me off! We specifically don't use this person and I
    don't know how she can continue like this.  My husband called the show
    manager to inform him of this and said he hoped that something like
    wasn't "political".  There's a lot of garbage out there and I just hope
    everyone knows, I mean truly knows, who they deal with.  A word of
    caution to some of you out there.
    

    I talked with Jan today and reminded her that our county has an
    ordinance that prohibits abandoning animals.  If her apartment manager
    still has the forwarding address of the former owners, they can be
    reported to animal control and prosecuted for leaving the two cats
    behind.
    
    As a PS to Cheryl Coleman's note a few back (can't remember the number,
    sorry).... I attended the Animal Advisory Commission meeting the other
    night.  Two more breeders have been visited by Animal Control.  Both
    were at the meeting.  Seems to be a wave of folks getting into trouble
    with their local government.  
    
    The best advice I can give a new breeder is to be cautious.  If you 
    have your address on your business cards, get it off there.  If you 
    use a P.O. Box with the post office, they can give out your home 
    address.  If you get your Box from a private company, they can't give 
    out your home address (you might want to verify this in your area).  
    Also, take the words "kittens for sale," "kittens available," or any 
    other references to breeding off your business cards.  I also don't put
    out my cards at shows.  I hand them out only to persons I have spoken
    with first.
    
    Also, remember this, if an officer shows up at your door.  Animal
    Control is only there to count noses, Humane Officers check for
    conditions, abuse, etc.  
    
    Jo

    Jan, even if the apartment manager doesn't have the address, you could
    try the post office.  In NH, a simple $1 or $2 fee to the post office
    will reveal their forwarding address.  Not sure if it's the same out
    there but it may be worth a try to find the irresponsible owner(s).

    Update to my whine in 91.80!!
    
    The good news is that we have been treating the kitty with the
    whole in the chin...and she has been doing great.   She comes over
    every morning and night for is oinment, love, and food!! He has
    gotten really close with us......
    
    The great news is...we finally got a hold of the kitty that had
    the huge bump on his face and his eye was closed because of it.  this
    cat had to be in alot of pain.  All last week I was a total basket 
    case because this kitty never came back...I wanted to believe his
    owner got him the medical attention he needed...but knowing how some 
    people are total jacka** I really thought this guy went off to die 
    somewhere and it broke my heart knowing I couldn't help.  UNTIL this 
    morning....Ernie was late leaving and as he walked out the door...the
    big guy was munching down food on my porch.....Ernie got the carrier...
    and the cat let Ernie hold him and put him in the carrier. this is
    truly amazing because this cat has been around for a year...and we 
    have never been able to get two feet from it.  I guess he needed us!
    Well the vet seems to think it is an abscess...and since we have no
    idea where this guy lives or even if he has a home...he will stay
    at the vets until probably Saturday to be treated.   Worse case
    he can stay in my cellar until he is healed...and then we'll just
    play it by ear!!  
    
    God...this made my day...here I think kitty is dead...and he is
    getting the medical help he so desparately needs!!  My vet normally
    gives me wonderful price breaks...but he say he would be extra extra
    good to us...since this isn't even our cat!!
    
    Thank god both these kitties found us when they needed help!!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    Sandy - you're so good for taking care of these babies - especially
    when their *($&#@*@ owners apparently couldn't care less!!
    
    There's a special place in heaven for people like you (with lots
    of furfaces waiting to take care of you for a change!)

    Well...it twasn't me this time....it was my wonderful hubby who
    should get all the credit..he was only 2 hours late for work
    this morning!!  No wonder I love him so!!!!
    
    An update from the vet....the kitty is a male and has already been
    neutered!   The vet seems to think that he did have a loving home
    at one time...but probably has been on his own for awhile!  The
    collar he was wearing was a bit tight....but the kitty is absolutely
    gorgeous.   He is HUGE longhair Tabby and white!!   We might be
    putting an ad in the paper to see if we can find his REAL owner!!
    
    Sandy 
    
    

    I went from being in heaven yesterday...to hell today!  I'm so bummed!
    
    After a complete exam of the "Big guy" it was determined that the
    kitty does have a tumor on his face.  The tumor is affecting the chin,
    ear canel, the jaw bone, and the eye socket.  It is there best guess
    that based on how it has spread that it is most likely malignant and
    it won't be long before the cancer spreads to a main organ. The
    estimated odds are that an 80-85% chance that it is malignant!
    
    My vet suggested that since this is not even my kitty, the tests
    would be somewhat expenses, that we put the cat down immediately.
    But then he looked at us and said "BUT I know you...if you want to be 
    100% we can make all the decisions after a biopsy.   This is what
    we decided to do!  An I right...I just don't know but feel that if
    kitties life is at stake...I want to be 100% sure I'm making the
    right decision!!  
    
    I requested they do the biopsy and send it to Tufts to be analyzed.
    If it is malignant...our decision will most likely be to relieve 
    kitties pain and put him down.   If it is not...atleast between our
    own vet and Tufts they can provide me with any other options we
    have.   I realize I can go through the radiation/chemo route...but
    after going through this with both my parents and both dying at a
    very young age....I just personally don't feel it will help unless
    you catch the tumor at a very early stage.  I'm not sure I can
    put a kitty through this.
    
    Now...all my unanswered questions...does he really have a home and
    his owners were just biding more time with him???   Do I have a right
    to make these tough decision?  Is the kitty loved by anyone??  Is
    kitty in alot of pain??  Are we doing the right thing...or am I doing
    the biopsy for me so I can live with myself after the fact?  
    
    I have come to the conclusion that the sign in the woods that use
    to say "for Food go to Merritt's house"...now says "for medical
    treatment go to Merritt's house".
    
    Please say a prayer tonight for the "big guy"!! 
    
    .....Sandy

    Sandy-
    
    You ARE doing the right thing!
    
    
    Lynne

    If this kitty DOES have an owner, they obviously don't give a 
    sh*t about it, letting it go on this long... so you'd be doing
    the best thing by putting the poor baby out of its misery (if
    it indeed is malignant).  We're all hoping for the best, but
    know that it would be the kindest thing to let the poor guy
    go if there's nothing else that can reasonably be done.
    
    You ARE doing the right thing!!

    Sandy - did you try the option of putting a collar on the cat with a
    note to call you?  It would be an attempt at finding the owner, if one
    exists (or cares)...

    Cheryl...the only time we could get even near the cat was yesterday...
    so prior to that using the collar wasn't even an option.  Since they
    will be doing the biopsy today...I don't think I'll even be bringing
    this big guy home again...the outcome doesn't look good.  
    and even if I do get a chance to bring him home (if non-malignant)
    the guy is in no condition to be roaming free.  
    
    Pam sent me a note off-line with one comment...if they really care
    about him...they will be roaming the neighborhood looking for him..
    
    I'm so bummed.....I think deep down I know the outcome...but I am
    being stubborn and want to be 100% sure!
    
    Sandy

    I'm with you.  I would want to be 100% sure before I made the
    decision to put him down.
    
    Jan

    That kids would actually think it was fun to beat a goose
    to death and break another goose's leg. ):
    
    I went out at lunch to hand feed the one with the broken leg.
    It wants the food, but it makes a small cry of fear when hands
    get too close. (makes my heart lurch to hear it whimper)
      But, it stayed within 2 feet to get some much needed food.
    
    L

    What geese are these?  Any hope of some nearby wildlife rescue or zoo
    people helping them?
    
    (I just figured out what to do with those kids...)
    

    
        I'd look at it this way, if there are owners for this poor cat,
    they either knew something was wrong and hoped someone else would take
    the cat, or if they noticed the problem and still didn't get medical
    attention and just let the cat run loose, then they probably don't
    care. I wouldn't make much effort in finding any owners, just
    concentrate on helping kitty one way or the other.
    
    Ps. I did the Merritt sign pointing to your house,  looked like the
    same work crew that made up the one at my parents house. Wheeew! When I
    think of all the animals of every variety my Mom used to help out....
    
    Denise 

    The kitty could have an owner that cares for the cat but may be unable
    to financially care for it perhaps????
    
    Sandy, why don't you pass along that welcome sign to Yon?  She only has
    two cats.  Surely she has room for a few more, snicker, snicker!

    OK Cheryl! Watch out! There's a terrific big fluffy yellow cat named CB
    at the shelter right now, who is an absolute love! I've been showing
    him all your notes, and he said he wants to come live with you! If I
    had room for more cats, believe me, I'd have more! That's why I
    volunteer at the shelter! I get to have my multiple kitty fix that way,
    because I know I can't have any more at home. Works out well for me!
    ;-)
    
    I do have to admit I'd love to take home one or two or three or......
    form the shelter. I've fallen in love with all the black kitties they
    have! Nancy Cross is having the same problem! ;-)
    
    Yonee

    Update on stray kitty.  First my hubby named him Sasquach...but
    I'm going to call him Sassy for short!!   He named him that only
    because the cat is huge...and reminds him of Bigfoot!!   I have two
    18lb cats...but this one is so furry he appears much bigger!!
    
    The kitty is now at another vet getting a second opinion (DR. Fallon
    who is one of the shelter vets).  So far we do know it is a tumor...
    and there is good potential that it is malignant because of the way
    it spread.  They are doing the biopsy today so we should know more
    by the middle of the week.  My hubby's quote of the day "we need to
    make sure...I'd rather a whole in my pocket...then a whole in my
    heart!"
    
    Sassy is a very very loveable kitty who just melted in my arms.....at
    this point he is still eating and both vets believe he is not suffering
    yet!   The game plan will be that if it is Malignant, Ernie and I
    will bring him home...set up a place in our cellar...and just spoil
    him rotten until the time comes that he is suffering.   I know this
    will be VERY hard for us...but it is something we both feel we need 
    to do.   If it is non-malignant...Dr. Fallon will let us know if
    it is operable or might even send us to a vet in N.H. that specializes
    in ears and eyes.   (I wonder if it's the same one that operated on
    Beth and Middy???)  
    
    I don't have my hopes up...because it doesn't look to good...but
    I do believe in miracles and keep praying!!
    
    Sandy

         We'll be praying for Sasquatch ...
    
    					- Andrea

    Us too,
    
    Karen
    

    Kitty prayers from us, too.
    
    Steffi + 4
    

    
    Sasa-what?  Go ahead and pick out a name I can't even pronounce!
    hurumff!  :-)  Good luck to him, though, Sandy.  Keep me posted.
    I probably will see you this week for lunch right?  And Saturday
    too?  We can talk then.
    
    As for you, Yvonne, remember that ALL those black kitties at
    the shelter are MINE MINE MINE!  :-)))  That includes Tramp
    and Brutus and Dandelion and even my belove Leah (who some
    shelter person snatched RIGHT out from under my nose!).
    
    Well, I still have the two black kittens and Stephen is getting
    much to enamored of them for my comfort....
    
    Come on JJ!  Take em' both, won't you?  :-)))
    
    N

    Nancy-- I sponsor Lea's cage!!  She and her cagemates are my foster
    cats, and I receive pictures of them every month.
    
    She's adopted now??  Terrific!  Lea is my favorite people name, so it
    was neat to see I was sponsoring a cat with that name, since I have no
    children of the human variety.
    
    Keep up the good work!
    
    -Roberta
    
    

    Roberta - you like Lea's?  Have I got a deal for you.  :^) :^)  

    The kitty I mentioned in .81 had 6 kittens Saturday in the rain.
    One of the kids at the barn gathered them up and put them in a 
    warm box.  All the kittens died by Sunday.  :^(  Mom cat seems
    okay and still has her cold. :^(  A new male cat has shown up
    that we can't catch.   Hello, FOA?.....
    
    
    p.s.
    
    Sandy I hope your kitty is doing okay and that the tumor is not
    malignant.  Your doing a great job!
    

    boy, can I relate to what you're dealing with!  A good friend of mine
    who has a barn in Lancaster called me about a month ago and said that
    a mother and her litter were "dropped off" in front of their barn in a
    box about a week prior.  At that time, they guestimated that the
    kittens were about two weeks old.
    
    And now, we need to try and find homes for all of the babies and
    hopefully the mother.  They're SO cute!!
    
    Holly
    

    Why or why do people still let their cats have kittens instead of
    getting them spayed/neutered?  Every time I see an ad for "free
    kittens" and in some cases the ad even indicates it's not the first
    litter the momcat has had, I feel the need to put my hands on the
    person's shoulders and shake them to reality.  Don't they ever wonder
    why shelters are bulging at the seams and no-kill shelters can no
    longer take any in until some are adopted?  Do these people hide their
    heads up their shirtsleeves when so much education has been out there
    on the subject?
    
    This is my biggest "whine". (sigh)
    
    Pat
    

    I agree, Pat.  Sigh.  It sure does become hard to value differences
    after awhile.
    

    Ditto ditto on your whine Pat.  I have been asked many times
    that if someone's cat gets pregnant...will I be willing to take
    the kittens to the shelter.  I could just SCREAM and can't figure
    out why they would even consider this when millions of cats are
    being killed because nobody wants them.
    
    Sad Sad World......especailly working for either a kill who has to
    watch cat euthanized or a no-kill shelter where you have to turn
    cats away because your already over-crowded.
    
    Sandy
                                           

    Boy, Mary, you must really be charged to have entered that reply two
    times!!  :^)
    
    -Roberta (who couldn't agree with you more)
    

    That's okay, Mary.  Repeat litters, repeat whines.
    
    
    Pat
    

Gee, I dunno about my mouse button!!  I went to delete one reply and deleted
both.  Oh well....I'm calm now anyway!!

Mary, with mod hat squarely placed....

    My turn.  What is is about the people in my apartment complex?
    I've been feeding another cat recently (it wasn't my intention
    he just pushes the ones I planned to feed out of the way).  
    Now I find out from a neighbor that his owner has moved off and
    left the cat.  This is the second time in less than a month.
    Their apparent excuse...we couldn't get him to come near the
    car.  Yeah, like right, you just say come on kitty, get in the
    car.  NOT!!!  You pick the cat up, put him in a box or carrier
    and stick him in the car.  What is so hard about that?  It's
    not kitty's decision.
    
    Anyway, I'm truly miffed (to put it nicely).  I am now feeding
    10+ cats.  My 4, 2 fosters, Torti and Shorti, Old Yeller (he
    has a BIG mouth and he's sort of yellow in color) and the new 
    one (I've been calling him Bill, he looks like a Bill), and 
    any other cat that wonders through the patio area while the 
    food is out.  I understand that several of my neighbors are 
    feeding Bill and Yeller but I seem to be the only one that
    feels an overwhelming need to vet them and find them homes.
    
    Jan

         Being a country bumpkin and know numerous farmers in town there've
    been an unusually high number of cats and dogs left by the roadsides
    this year. As a matter of fact 6 of my 8 furfaces were abandoned or 
    the offspring of abandoned pregnant females. I can't comment on
    people whose cats have multiple litters... 
    
    
                Bob Brower New Braintree Mass

    I can longer leave food in the garage for Chief because this other cat
    has decided that he loves MAXcat.  The worse part of this is that this
    stray/outdoor cat (he could come from the farm behind my house) comes
    to my house, eats my cats food, and scares my cat away.  Chief will not
    come home if this cat is hanging around.  I dont know if he belongs to
    anyone.  He does not look thin though.  There is also this other cat,
    that makes real strange noises that also hangs out.  He agitates all
    the neighborhood cats, both indoor and outdoor.  I dont want these cats
    to go hungry and thirsty, but I also dont want my cat to not feel 
    welcome at his own home and garage without any food.

    If you feed Chief in the morning and evening inside the house, probably
    all you need to leave outside for him is water.

    Re .125
    
    I have the same problem.....made worse by a neighbor who isn't
    feeding her cats.  I can feed Nique inside, but Moochie freaks
    when inside, even in the barn.  I can see the cats sitting among
    the bushes and woods, just waiting until I leave so they can chase
    Mooch out and eat her food.  They are even climbing into the barn
    to eat Nique's food that's in the bowl there!  ):
    
    I HATE WHEN PEOPLE STOP FEEDING THEIR PETS!
    

    Okay, I have to slightly revise .123 now that I have some facts.
    
    Bill, the black and white cat that I've been feeding, is wanted by
    his owners.  Apparently, according to a neighbor, they've been back
    looking for him a few times but have never been able to find him 
    when they're there.  I told the neighbor to tell them to come by
    my house between 8-9pm and they'd find him, no problem.  I even
    offered to take him to them.
    
    Now, for the disappointing news.  These people came back looking for
    their cat and took Torti with home them.  I was just going to take 
    her in now that Molly and Ariel have moved into their beautiful new
    home on Sunday evening.  I was really getting worried since I hadn't 
    seen her in 2-3 days.  The neighbor let me know they decided to keep 
    her.  Geez, I was actually thinking of keeping her myself.  I'm very 
    disappointed but I'm glad she has a home.  I would have like to have 
    been able to screen them as a potential home first but I think they'll 
    take care of her even though she'll probably remain and outdoor cat.  
    I just hope they're keeping her in until she's familiar with her new 
    surroundings.  I told the neighbor to let them know that if it didn't 
    work out for any reason they should bring her to me.
    
    Now for some good news.  Torti's sister, Shorti, is coming around.
    The neighbor says she's been eating his cat's food regularly and he
    feels she is beginning to warm up to people a bit.  I told him to
    keep trying to get close to her and that I would also try.  We're
    going to convince her to be a people cat one way or the other.
    
    Okay, I'm done whining now.
    
    Jan

    Jan,
    
    I think it's great that your ex-neighbors got their cat back and took
    in Torti; although, it sounds like they need to become a little more
    "cat-aware."  Good luck with Shorti - do you think she'll be around for
    me to see the weekend of the 23rd?  (Sounds like she'll have a home -
    if not you or your neighbor, then me?)
    
    Michelle

    Did they actually get their own cat back?  or are they still looking?
    

    Unless they came and got him between 9:00pm last night and when I
    get home tonight, I believe he's still touring the complex for 
    meals.  He's a sweet cat.  Falls over for his stomach to be rubbed
    at the drop of a meal.  I wonder what his real name is.  He still
    looks like a "Bill" to me.
    
    Michelle, I think Shorti is going to still be there.  I just don't 
    know where we'll find her.  She's hanging out on the patio near where 
    I tried to catch her a lot but she's not spending as much time in 
    her bush as she used to.  We'll give it a try though.
    
    Now, does anyone know someone who wants a big, yellowish, very male
    kitty with good lungs and what appears to be a flea allergy who answers
    to any name (including:  Yeller and Yella Fella)?  Ooops, that's 
    another topic...
    
    Jan

    Disclaimer:  My moderator hat has been placed in a closet for the
    moment.  If my fellow moderators find that I have breached one of
    our rules with this, they have my permission to delete it.  I'm 
    trying to be as level as I can about this but I am making no 
    guarantees.
    
    
    I had the misfortune of finding myself behind a big old blue 
    Mercury with the following bumper sticker today:
    
    			I love cats--
    			     dead ones
    
    Given the state of my emotions and the nastiness of that sticker
    I have to state that I have never in my life felt such a great
    desire to ram my car down someone's throat.  
    
    Jan

    Jan,
    
    I generally don't mind some of the jokes that float around about
    cats; you know, they can be like Polish jokes.  And I laughed when a
    soap opera villainness said she had nothing against cats, she just
    never knew what to do with the bones.  But seeing something like that
    on a car is not a laughing matter, especially since some people think
    it's fun to run down any unfortunate animal that comes near the road
    they are driving on.
    
    I'm sorry you had to see that.
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    This isn't a whine about cruelty to animals, but I think it belongs
    here anyway.
    
    I'm looking to rent or buy a large cage to put my two 9-month kitties
    in while at my mom's house because my stepfather doesn't want them
    running around loose in the house and I refuse to leave them in the
    cold garage.  The rental places around here don't have anything like
    that, so I called some feed stores and found a 3'x 4' cage for about
    $25.00.  I also called our local discount pet store which usually has
    really good prices.  I was shocked to find out that their largest cage,
    42"x26"x30" costs $237.00!  Their only other option was to buy two 4'
    pens at $67.00 each, and use one as a "lid."  I don't understand why
    there is such a cost difference.  I mean, that must be one super
    heavy-duty, fancy cage for $237!  But the pens must be somewhat
    comparable to the cage the feed store has, so what's the deal? 
    Granted, the feed store cage is probably not quite as sturdy and is
    made with "rougher" material, but still.
    
    To change the subject slightly,  do you think a 3'x4' pen is big enough
    for two cats (1 14-pounder and 1 10-pounder)?  Do I need to do anything
    special for them?  I plan to put down a small quilt so they don't have
    to walk on the "spokes."  Is there a way to "jury-rig" a shelf for them
    to sit on?
    
    Or, does anyone in the San Jose area have a portable cage I can borrow
    from the 24th through the 27th?
    
    Michelle

    3x4 by what?  (The pet store sounds bananas.)  Is keeping them instead in
    one room of your Mom's house a possibility?  I'd put down a garbage bag
    under the cage in case of accidents.  I think that rather than a
    shelf, which might collapse, I'd put in something like your
    bathrobe (not washed) and toys.
    
    I have an old cage that's been rusting away in my garage since I used
    it to confine Sweetie while his pelvis healed a few years ago.  I'll
    root it out and see if its usable.  But,my recollection is that it's
    hardly more than a foot high.
    

    I tried to reply to this on Friday, but the network partner aborted and
    I wasn't able to log on the rest of the day.
    
    I think it's 3x3x4; although, now that I think about it, it is probably
    3x1or2x4 since it's probably meant for rabbits.  I asked my mom about
    confining them to one room, but she thought that my stepfather wouldn't
    go for that (she's going to talk to him, though).  I don't know why he
    has such a problem with my and my sister's pets; he even has 3 cats and
    2 dogs of his own.  Maybe it just has to do with them being in the
    house since all their pets stay outdoors.
    
    I'm starting to think it might just be best to leave them at home.  My
    sister said she feed them and visit with them on Friday before she
    leaves, and I'll leave out lots of extra food and water.  They're used
    to being alone for 2 days at a time, so maybe they'll be okay.
    
    Thanks for the suggestions anyway.
    
    Michelle

    Why don't you log into the caNINE notes files and ask if someone can
    loan you an "exercise pen" with a top.  I use them to raise my puppies
    in.  They don't have a floor and can be anyplace from 24" to 48" high.
    They are panels of wire that are about 8 - 12' long all together and
    lets you shape it anyway you wish -- but to put a top on you need to
    square it up, think it is 3 x4 or 4 x 4 squared up.  this should work
    very well for you.
    
    dana
    

    My mom was going to ask some of her dog and cat breeder friends about a
    pen like that, but I think the least stressful thing for them is just
    to let them stay home.  They'll be most comfortable in their own
    surroundings, and they've stayed by themselves before.
    
    Thanks anyway,
    Michelle

    
    To my dismay I found out that Tidy Cat 3 is changing to a "new & improved"
    formula.  Some of you may recall that Bailey had a severe reaction to
    a new kitty litter that I tried, so needless to say I stick to the same
    product.  I called the 800 number and they are adding fragrances to it so 
    it emits a fragrant smell ALL of the time rather than just when the kids 
    use the box.  So now the search is on for all of the "old" Tidy Cat 3
    that is still on the shelf.  ARGHHHHHHHHHHH
    
     

    Marlene,
    
    I just bought that Tidy Cat on sale, and the odor is so perfume-y I
    nearly keel over every time I scoop!!  This is the only litter I can
    find that creates minimal tracking, but it is definitely time to switch
    brands.
    
    I have a feeling that the Bales would blatantely object to this
    supposedly new and improved formula.
    
    =Roe
    

    
    Thanks Roe.  After chatting with the woman this a.m. I had a feeling
    that it was going to be this way.  She mentioned that the Tidy Cat MC
    formula will not change and I may want to try that.  She is sending
    product sheets on all of the products so I know what is in what.  She
    said the major difference in the new formula is the addition of
    Bisulphate (sp?), frangrance and deletion of the baking soda.  The last
    thing the Bales needs is another episode of an allergic reaction. 
    Unfortunately out here on the west coast we do not have the variety
    of litters that you folks have back there.  I stand in amazement at the
    supermarket with all of the options you folks have.  When we visited
    there a while back Cin had Kleen Kitty (green bag) and he had no
    problems.  Wish we had it out here....
    
    

    Marlene, I use plain Safeway brand litter or Jonny Cat for my
    guys.  neither has an offensive perfume.  
    
    signed,
    
    still looking for a new fabric softener since they "perfumed" Downy
    

    Cedar sawdust is another option. Very odor obsorbant, very natural and
    the boys love the smell. I'm finding it very economical, as one bag
    (the size of a 20 lb bag of clay litter) weighs about 5 lbs and fills
    four boxes. I change the box twice a week, and we have no odor problems
    (even when I've let it go 8 days).
    
    Deb
    

    Marlene,
    
    I second the Johnny Cat.  It is a very good litter and I don't think
    the Bales would object.
    

    
    Thanks guys, I'll go with the Johnny Cat.  BTW, the San Francisco
    gang wishes you and yours a very Happy Holiday!
    
    Marlene, the Bales, Callie and Kisa
    
    

    
    Tidy Cat MC is a product I was using till about a month and half
    ago.  I should warn you, however, that it has a very strong "nose"
    to it.....like the newer Tidy Cat, it IS perfumed.  That's why I
    used it.  I have 11 cats in a four room apartment (indoor-only)
    and I need to keep the smell down.  I've switched to scoopable 
    though.  The added expense is worth it.  I scoop twice daily
    and you'd never know I have a cat in the apartment.  Yonee got
    me some stuff at Sam's Warehouse in Westboro that was very good.
    Bought in bulk, it was cheaper.  Right Yonee?  
    
    Nancy

    
    re: .146
    
    Nancy, I was wondering what it smelled like.  The material data safety
    sheets were as follows:
    
    Tidy Cat 3 - floral fragrance
    "Improved" Tidy Cat 3 - lavender, floral fragrance
    Tidy Cat MC - citrus, floral fragrance
    
    Wish I could go with the scoopable stuff.  I loved it, but
    unfortunately my kids' eyes did not...
    
    
    

    Marlene,
    
    The "Improved TC 3 does have a very strong floral/perfume-y fragrance. 
    I can smell it on the cats for hours afterwards and it lingers in my
    nose after I scoop... which makes me sneeze a lot!!  I just bought the
    MC last night and will be changing the boxes tomorrow.  We shall see
    what scent that brings... hopefully, a much more tolerable one!
    

    Right Nan! If anyone uses Cat's pride Scoopable, you can get it at
    Sam's Warehouse Club for 5.88 for 22 pounds! I'm not sure if it's
    scented or not. Nancy will have to fill in that blank for us. ;-)
    
    The stuff at Sam's comes in a container that reminds me of a small
    plastic barrel with a handle. 
    
    BTW, a single membership to Sam's is 25.00 a year. (same as BJ's) A
    second card is 10.00 more. I think if someone uses a lot of kitty
    litter, just the savings from that would warrant the price of the
    membership. ;-) They also carry 50 pound bags of Cat's Pride clay
    litter for about the same price, and large bags of kibble (I forget
    which brands, but Friskies was one of them) and cases of Little
    Friskies small cans for (I think) less than 6.00. I bel;ieve they have
    three varieties in the case. That could add up to big savings in a
    multi cat home.
    
    Or, you can always get someone (like me) who's already a member to take
    you in with them! ;-)
    
    Yonee 
    
    P.S. I have no connection with Sam's Club besides being a member. I
    priced all the kitty stuff to pass the info on here.

    
    I called Softsoap yesterday to get an order form for Fresh Feliners.  I
    use this ordering method because they are not distributed in the San
    Francisco area (except the Presidio).  I have been ordering them by the
    case this way for the past 2 years (it became a tad tedious for my
    family to send them from the east coast).  To my dismay I was informed
    that this option is no longer available, it is too much of a hassle
    for the company.  Are they available anywhere in the South Bay?  It
    would be a good "excuse" to come down and visit....
    
    
    

    Hi Marlene,
    
    I don't know where they're available in California, but I'd be more
    than happy to send you a case of them if you'd like.  They're available
    at most supermarkets around here.
    
    I just had to comment on this, though.
    
    
    RE:  Fresh Feliners
    
    Well, we may be a bit crude sometimes, but I wouldn't call the people
    in this file "FRESH" (-:
    
    HOlly
    

    What's a fresh feliner?
    

    
    Karen, it is a litter box liner that has an abosrbant bottom which has 
    the same type of material found in a diaper.
    
    

    
    	They're WONDERFUL!!
    
    	The only liners that my monsters can't tear to shreds.....
    

    I have tried them  and originally thought they were great!  I think
    they changed something about them from when they first came out.  The
    surface layer used to be stonger.  Now my cats can actully start to
    shred them and I get long "hairs" of that fabric going through the box. 
    It makes quite a mess!
    Karen
    (plus, I think they were a little larger too!)

    I don't even bother with the liners anymore....it gets to the point
    that you cats will scratch them up so much (within the first day of
    putting a new one in the box) that the urine and 'other' just fall
    through the holes and you end up with plastic and litter mixed
    everywhere....
    
    It has been so much easier without them. Once a week I just empty the
    boxes completely and scrub them down with ajax, rinse, dry, and refill.
    I use sand litter, so there is minimal odor.
    
    And my cats can scratch about to their hearts content.
    
    N

    Well I thought we had a topic on cat commercials but I couldn't
    figure out where it is.  Maybe version 1.  Then it came to me...
    maybe this should be in the "whining" topic instead.  
    
    Anyway, has anyone seen the new Friskies commercial.  I think it 
    is Friskies but it may be some other brand of cat food.
    
    What they do is they list the generations of cats.  Susie begat
    Samantha the Brave, and from Samantha the Brave came so-and-so.
    On down through a few generations.  The cats are really cute too.
    It's a really nice commercial except for one thing.  There really
    isn't any detail as to whether the cats are mixed breeds or pedigreed
    cats, but, the cats they are showing appear to be non-pedigree cats.
    If it is true that they are non-pedigreed, then they shouldn't be 
    having generation after generation of cats to feed Friskies too.
    They should have been spayed or neutered before they have offspring.
    
    Am I just being sensitive to this since I'm so involved with cat
    stuff or is there a hidden message being sent here that perhaps they
    are unaware they're sending.
    
    Jan
                    

    
    	Yes, most of them are domestic, but there is a silver
    	mackerel tabby and `flip' appears to be a somali.
     

    After talking to the woman I ordered my "Bruno & the girls"
    poster from, it wouldn't matter whether they were purebreds
    or not.   People were calling up and asking where they could
    get cats with spots like the ones in the picture! )8
    
    Most people have not gotta clue when it comes to cats....

    
    	Speaking of that (sorry to get off topic) isn't there
    	a shirt or something with that picture on it?  If so,
    	can someone point me to the note with the info?
    
    	thanks!
    
    	JJ
    

    Now that you mention it, Flip did look like a Somalie.  Guess
    I can't gripe any more (at least not about Flip).  Don't really
    remember the other one.  Samantha the Brave, Sugar and Spice and
    Flip are the biggies.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  I've been trying like crazy to remember which note the Bruno
          and the girls stuff was in.  Will let you know if I find it.

    Thanks to Cheryl Rawden for finding Bruno for me.
    
    The "Bruno & the Girls" note is 157.0.  I've keyworded it
    BRUNO_AND_THE_GIRLS.  Typing SHOW KEY/FULL BRUNO* at the
    Notes> prompt should bring it up for you in the future.
    
    Jan
    

    
    	Thanks!
    

>  There really
>    isn't any detail as to whether the cats are mixed breeds or pedigreed
>    cats, but, the cats they are showing appear to be non-pedigree cats.
>    If it is true that they are non-pedigreed, then they shouldn't be 
>    having generation after generation of cats to feed Friskies too.
>    They should have been spayed or neutered before they have offspring.
 
	I think this is an awful thing to say, I have two moggies at the
	moment, I like moggies, we have always had moggies.
	I would never have a pedigree, just because you may want them doesn't 
	mean that everyone does.

	I vote for the moggies. Long may they live and prosper.


	Heather

    I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I was trying
    to comment on the fact that the food company appears to be promoting
    letting cats have generations of kittens instead of spaying and 
    neutering them.  I have mixed breed (non-pedigreed) cats and I wouldn't
    give them up for the world.  I just think it is more responsible
    to promote spaying and neutering for these cats rather than advocating
    letting them continue to breed uncontrolled.  
    
    The cats in that commerical may all be purebred cats who were bred in 
    a controlled setting by responsible breeders but, the commercial doesn't 
    say anything at all about where they all came from.  It just discusses 
    how this generation bred that generation and from that generation came 
    this generation, etc. through 4-5 levels and the family tree gets bigger
    and bigger at the bottom and none of the cats look alike so they appear
    to be mixed breeds that had chance breedings because they weren't 
    spayed or neutered.
    
    Jan (who has 3 mixed breed furfaces of her own and 1 foster mixed breed
         furface)
    

	So why not show the moggies on TV adverts, if moggies hadn't bred, I
	wouldn't have mine, and you wouldn't have yours.

	An advert showing only purebred cats would not tempt me into buying
	the catfood, those showing ordinary moggies, and generations of them
 	too, is much more likely - that's how my moggies came about, and I'm
	very pleased they did.

	Heather

	A reminder that we're talking about the US here, not the UK.  Over
	here, there are millions more "moggies" than there are homes for
	them - probably more are euthanized every year than exist in Britain.

	I still don't see why that should mean banning moggies on catfood
	adverts on TV.

	Heather

    Heather-
    
    Here in the U.S., responsible pet owners don't agree with
    advertising using the "generations of cats", or what would be
    to me, selling the idea of uncontrolled breeding being acceptable.
    (purebred or domestic (moggies)!)
    
    The millions of kittens & cats put to sleep due to lack of homes
    (in the U.S.) makes this kind of advertising repugnant....
    
    

    Lynne,
    
     That's what I was gong to say pretty much. It's not the fact that they
    are using moggies in the advert. It's the "generations" part that I
    don't like. I'd prefer to see moggies in adverts myself. I am just
    against the generation after generation part of the commercial. It
    seems to underplay the overpopulation problem that we are trying so
    hard to bring to light.
    
     Hope this helps clear things up.
    
    Yonee

    
>    Here in the U.S., responsible pet owners don't agree with
>    advertising using the "generations of cats", or what would be
>    to me, selling the idea of uncontrolled breeding being acceptable.
>    (purebred or domestic (moggies)!)
 

	I agree with this, I must have misunderstood, I thought that the
	note was only against showing moggies as generations, not all cats.


	Thanks,
	Heather

    Writing a letter to the sponsor for this commercial would be a start.
    

Seems akin to the gratuitus sex, graphic and implied, that one
sees on the tube regularly. No mention of contraceptive aids
(condoms) and, magically, no babies. The message? There are
no consequences to your actions, so it is not necessary to
act responsibly.


                                     Susan

    So "moggies" means mongrels?  This is the only place I've seen that
    slang and I've been trying to work up the nerve to ask.  (Guess I'm in
    with the out crowd!)
    
    Why isn't it "mongies"?!
    
    Up til this note I thought it was synonymous with "furfaces".  We
    oughta have a glossary in here....
    
    Leslie

	Well, people who are owned by cats of uncertain orrigin - in my case
	two strays - do tend to call cats "moggies", however, owners of
	purebreds don't like their cats being called moggies very often.

	My two wouldn't care what you called them - as long as they have their
	cat-flap, food, and warm spots by the radiators!
	
	Heather

    We always referred to cats as moggies when we were little.  "Moggies"
    is very British, or at least it was in the days of my British
    grandparents.  

Not to worry, Leslie. This is the first place I've seen it
as well.


                                 Susan

    Oh good, I feel better now!  And another silly name to call Moon (I
    thought Moonie-Lune was bad, now we have Moonie-Luney-moggie... ]:3
    I like it!
    
    I also like the way one feliner guy referred to his owner as a "window
    potato"....
    
    As to the ad being discussed before I derailed the topic, I can see
    where it might be viewed as promoting rampant reproduction.  But the
    way *I* saw it was past tense, not present; in other words, all these
    kitties do exist, and here's the family tree  Believe me, I'm p*roo*
    spaying and neutering.
    
    Regards,
    Leslie and her (Heinz 57, but all black) Salem witch kitty

    Ack!  The new kitty has only been in the house for 24 hours and 
    my hands are already covered with teeth scrapes from where he
    has tried to attach himself permanently to my hands with no 
    prior warning.  I'm getting gunshy to even have my hands around
    him.  I pray for the day he learns "don't bite" well enough for
    me to not have to repeat it constantly.  This would have been so 
    much simpler if he was still a baby, but, he's already in his 
    terrible teens and his new momma has got to learn how to handle 
    him very quickly.
    
    I'll never have a job as a hand model now (not that I would have
    before). ;^)
    
    Jan 
    

    Well, it only took 5 days for me to wise up and find a way to work
    around this biting cat.  I just remembered I have leather work-out
    gloves hanging around (okay, so it's been ages since I've used
    them).  The gloves are white leather with the fingertips cut out.
    I got this bright idea tonight to put those gloves and let 
    McGuyver out of his tokyo cage.  I let him run around for a while
    then I tried to pet him with the gloves on.  He was very loveable
    until he had a chance to scratch on the scratching box.  Then he
    got a bit aggressive with me and tried to bite.  He bit pretty
    hard.  Luckily, the leather stopped the teeth before they reached
    my hand.  I can still see the indents where his teeth hit the
    leather.  He found a catnip toy and proceeded to attack it.  Catnip
    makes him more aggressive.  When it came time to put him back in 
    his cage I just picked him up, catnip toy and all and put him back
    in the tokyo cage.  I did try to bite once but he couldn't get 
    through the leather.  I think he was partially distracted by the
    toy.  I just decided to leave it in his cage with him since he 
    seems to enjoy it so much.  Maybe he'll quit meowing at me so much
    if he has that with him.  
    
    Anyway, the point of this note is that I don't feel so afraid of 
    him when I have the gloves on now.  This is a good thing.  If he
    senses I'm afraid, then he has the upper hand.  We went through
    this upper hand thing Sat. night to the max and I vowed he wouldn't
    get me again (he was actually attacking me, charging me and almost
    literally chasing me around the house after I tried to pill him). 
    
    Oh, Onyx is alternating between sounding like he wants to kill Mac
    and looking like he wants to play with him (95% kill, 5% play).
    Onyx has learned a new command too, "backoff".  He's getting good 
    at responding to it and he gets lots of praise when he does.  He
    only challenged the command once.  I've got teethmarks on my knee
    where he mistook me for Mac. 
    
    So, I guess things are getting better.  But, to tie this in to the
    whine note I guess I'm whining at the mess of scrapes, scratches and
    punctures I'm accumulating in this process.  But, hey, what a learning
    experience I'm having. ;^)
    
    One last thing...I was sitting at the table with some friends tonight
    and someone looked at my hands full of scratches and said "New kitty?".
              
    Jan

    My girlfriend has just informed me that she plans on getting a golden 
    retriever and then is going to breed it.  Yesterday we had a semi major
    blowout over it.  I told her this would make her a back yard breeder
    and all hell broke loose.  She did call me this am and apologized for
    getting so heated about it.  I still believe it is the wrong thin to
    do.  Anyone got some good information they can forward to me on
    legislation, proper breeding reasons etc.  This is what will add fuel
    to the fires for legislature.  She thinks she is going about it in the 
    proper manner and says she will make sure the pedigrees are good.  How
    will she know?  I know what I have to go through as a breeder.  I
    really know this would be a bad thing for her.  "She wants to try it
    once, not make it her "life" like cat breeders she knows".  ;'{  She
    wants to still "have a life" (unlike me?)  I told her the minute she
    breeds that dog her life belongs to it.  Obviously it isn't sinking in.
    HELP!!
    Karen

    Karen,
    
     I figure you've probably already tried this, but what the heck, just
    in case...
    
     Have you tried telling her how selfish it would be to breed this dog?
    If she is not doing it for the benefit of the breed, she's doing it for
    selfish reasons, and the dog is the one to suffer. If she is buying a
    dog of breeder quality, and mating her (him) a championship one, then
    maybe, but that's going to be big bucks for someone who wants to try it
    once.
    
     It sounds like she is planning to get a pet with papers and breeding
    it. This is not a benefit to the breed, and not healthy to the dog,
    especially if it's a female. Pregnancy takes a lot out of any animal.
    
     Will she be prepared for the cost if anything goes wrong duriong
    delivery, and for the pups initial shots? Dogs tend to have fairly
    large litters, so that could add up.
    
     Is any of this helping? I feel like I'm rambling, coming up with
    allthe stuff I can think of off the top of my head, and the bottom of
    my heart.
    
     Try those reasons and see if it helps.
    
    Yonne

    Thanks Yonnee, maybe some of it will help.  It seems that every time
    I came up with something she came back again, and then so would I!
    I do believe she is trying to get a good quality dog, but she has been
    told by breeders she has contacted that they only have "show quality".  
    That is a farce if I ever heard one!
    I'll keep at it....
    Karen

    
    Just a note about Goldens that I've read about (you may be able to find
    more info in CANINE):  there are a lot of problems with hips in the
    breed - both parents of any breedable dog should be certified as being
    free of this problem (dysplasia?).  They are wonderful, smart, gentle,
    loving dogs all the same.
    
    Sandy
    

	Goldens have their hips numbered 1-10, 10 being excellent.

	The biggest problem is if the numbers vary a lot, because the animal
	will then put more stress on one than the other. The second is if the
	numbers are low........

	My friend has just lost his Doberman to cancer at 8 years old. The vet 
	has since told him if he had mated her once, then the risk of cancer 
	would have been much lower, and many female pedigree dogs should be
	mated at least once because of this problem.

	Goldens have long hair that malts - if you think cats leave a lot of
	hairs, you haven't seen anthing yet!
	They also need A LOT of exercise.

	Heather

    You may want to log in to the Canine notesfile.  It has lots of info.
    on the COST of breeding.  If common sense and reason escape her, maybe
    money will open her eyes??   Breeding good quality animals requires
    extensive genetic expertise, and lots and lots of money.  Finding homes
    for the pet-quality (which they all turn out to be if you don't know
    precisely what you are doing) can be exhausting, labor-intensive, and
    can take FOREVER.  Let's see, a litter of 8 pups, she'll have to keep
    them, feed them, and get them medical attention for 8 weeks, then
    screen homes for ALL of them to ensure they go to a good one, then take
    them back at anytime if the owners don't want them anymore (usually
    after they have abused them to the point of creating an intolerable
    pet), hmm.  Doesn't sound appealing to me, and I LOVE dogs! And then
    there's the problem of not being able to find anyone to take the dogs,
    the damage to the house by a bunch of rambunctious pups, which turn
    into unruly adults if she doesn't have the time to train the unwanted
    ones.  Sheesh!
    Also try the ASPCA for info.  They should have plenty of ammunition for
    your side of the argument.  But usually money talks the loudest, so
    try the financial angle.
    Sarah

    Thank you all for some extra thoughts!  Boy, you don't have to tell
    me about the money end of things!!
    Karen
    ps, I did log into canine and found some interesting info, but of
    course she logs in too!  I think she has found a dog and the breeder
    has a contract for her to sign.  Perhaps the breeder will discourage
    her alone :'}  If the breeder wants to work with her, so be it....
    

    
    Take her to the local dog shelter and let her look
    into those "unwanted" faces, and tell her that she
    would be adding to the over-population we already
    have.....

    I couldn't think of a better place to put this note.  It isn't
    really a brag (but, I guess it could be).  It is sort of a 
    followup to 91.180 and 91.181.
    
    Mac is settling into the household.  He's spending quite a bit
    of time out of his Tokyo cage when I'm home and we're only getting
    periodic hissess, spits and yowls from everyone while he's out.
    Onyx follows him all over the house keeping an eye on everything.
    Amelia can put him into submissive posture with one of her evil
    looks and a growling hiss.  Carrie wants absolutely nothing to do
    with him and stays as high in the house and she can get so he 
    won't bother her.
    
    The biting has calmed down significantly and when he does bite it
    isn't as hard.  A scolding usually stops him now.  He's learning
    that biting gets him put back in the cage so he's being pretty
    good.  I've even groomed him a few times and clipped his claws
    with no major injuries.  I can only groom him when he's purring
    and calm unless I plan to hold him by the scruff while I do it
    'cause that's the only method if he's not purring.  Even if he's
    purring I keep my hand at the ready for a scruff grab just in 
    case.  We're working on making grooming pleasant enough that this
    won't be necessary in the future.  Ya can't show a cat ya can't
    groom.
    
    So, it looks like Mac is staying.  Jo and Ken were smart to forget
    the carrier when they came to pick him up that night take him back.  
    They must've known we'd get it together sooner or later.
    
    Oh, I almost forgot.  The other purpose of this note is to show off
    my recently modified personal name.  I'm back to having four tigers 
    on my couch.  Bailey is by no means forgotten.  She'll always be with 
    me.  In fact, I think there is a tiny part of her in Mac.  It seems 
    he has her tendency for grooming people.  I sure missed that part.
    
    Jan
       

    Congrats on the new addition Jan.... they DO have a way of worming
    themselves into your heart...  :-)
    
    N

    
    I finally made it to COSTCO last night to pick up the Cat's Pride that
    Roe recommended.  They don't carry it anymore.  All they had was
    "Fresh Scoop" from "Fresh Step".  What a drag.  I haven't seen it any
    place else out here....
    
    

    I have to whine about the Cat's Pride.  I hate it.  We bought some
    because we finally got a Costco membership and that was all they
    carried.  I don't like having a ton of baby powder in the bottom of the
    litter boxes when I clean them.  When the baby powder stuff gets wet,
    it turns to mud.
    
    Jo  

    Jo,
    Doesn't the scamp smell like heck?  If I remember, it was a very strong
    smell.  I have been using the Cat's Pride, and it does turn a little
    muddy, more like you have to scrape it out of the bottom if you don't
    use a liner.  I still think the best litter is the Kleen Kitty in the
    orange bag.  It just costs a lot more.
    K.

    
    
    	In the orange or red bag?  I found that that's the cheapest
    	stuff!  And that's what I use most of the time.  I've found
    	that Maxx Cat (I think that's what it's called) isn't too bad
    	either.  And it doesn't seem to bother the girls....even Chloe
    	who prefers unscented litter.  She won't use the box if I have
    	Fresh Step in it.
    
    	JJ
    

    No Karen, I don't recall any odor from the litter at all.  And it is
    dust free.  The Cat's Pride nearly asphyxiated me. :')
    
    Jo

    
    We use Scamp in the "kitty pool" and like it for being
    very dust free, absorbent, and resistant to clumping.
    I use a dusting of baking soda topped by a 25 lb. bag
    of Scamp.  No complaints from the 12 cats who use that
    box.  Now if we could only get Rudy (who uses another
    box) to cover --- phew! talk about odor!  On occasion,
    even the dogs have complained...  :^P
    
    Ron

    Thanks for your input!  I used to use the scamp a couple of years ago
    and couldn't remember.  Perhaps I changed because of price?  Anyway, I
    think I will try to find out what kind of litter they sell at Walmart. 
    I have heard their prices are excellant.  They also carry a good brand
    of litter box at a great price.  I don't remember but I do remember the
    conversation and was impressed at the time.
    K

    
    Karen, it is nice to know that I am not the only one searching for
    litter.  It may seem trivial to some, but it drives me nuts!!!! 
                                         
    M
    
    

    re.,192
    
    SAms carries Cat's Pride....50 lb bag for about $4.50.  I buy it all
    the time....Love the stuff.
    
    michele

    A new use for Cat's Pride Catlitter that only the PB Shelter
    would think of:
    
    
    
    Stuffing for kitty draftstoppers!!  The stuff is great! 
    No messy sand, and the babypowder scent even makes it smell nice!
    
    Of course, I scoop the litter before using it (kidding...) ;-) ;-)
    
    Pam

Suppose kitties come by the draftstoppers and think "Hmmm, this smells just
like a clean litter box!"  8^o.

-Patrick

    
    If I had one of those door stoppers, I would most likely
    find it in bed!

    actually with 9 cats mine has stayed together fine. They may play with it 
    a bit but it's too heavy for them to drag around!!  
    
    Nobody has peed on it...yet!!
    
    Sandy                    

    I bought one of the draft stoppers from PBS for my back door.  I think
    it is very nice, but the cats have ignored it totally!!  I think I am
    safe ;'}
    Karen

    Just thought I'd whine about a catfood commercial that seems to
    be making light of the pet overpopulation problem.  I think the
    brand is Purina Cat Chow.  They show two kitties (with very cute names)
    who are the parents of 2-3 more kitties (with very cute names)
    who are then parents of 1-2 more kitties (etc., etc., etc.)
    
    The theme seems here is that Purina keeps your cats healthy 
    generation after generation.  The problem is that all the cats
    shown are mixed-breed, not purebred.
    
    They do, however, have in small print before the commercial
    ends "Be a responsible pet owner - spay and neuter your pets".
    Now, this seems to contradict what they're showing on TV, and
    never announce it - only put it in print on the screen.
    
    I feel this is very irresponsible advertising, and most people
    would not read the "fine print" and get the idea that it's 
    wonderful to let your mixed-breed pets breed from "generation 
    to generation".
    
    This commercial really upsets me!!  They also have a magazine
    version.  I get really annoyed everytime I see it!!
    
    Anyone else see it and get the same feeling?
    
    Pam

    
    Ditto....the first time I saw it...I was just amazed at all the
    cats and their wonderful names.  The second time I saw it...I got
    very frustrated and said "well this is great advertising"....now
    some folks can go buy Purina so their cats can have more healthy
    kittens.
    
    Geessshhhh...when you think the world is making some progress on
    the overpopulation of animals...you see something like this.
    
    Sandy                                                        

    Back in 91.157 I voiced similar opinions about his commercial (only
    I wasn't sure which company was doing the add).  I just don't think
    it's the best way to advertise their product.  So many people and
    groups are out there trying to promote responsible pet ownership and 
    a pet food company does this kind of advertising and contradicts 
    the message we're trying to send.  I give up.
    
    Jan

    I do not like this ad either, as I think it gives the wrong impression
    to the viewer.  I may have to write a letter...
    
    Jo  
    

    
    The hard copy ad shows that same "family tree".  In tiny print in the 
    far left upper corner is says something like "spay or neuter your pet".
    Talk about mixed messages...
    

	Well, I'd rather have mixed cats interbreeding, than purebreds, breeding
	in problems, and out a lot of the resistence, if we have kitties on
	telly, let them be mixed, not purebred.

	Heather

    Oh, oh, looks like another rat-hole.  Sorry I started this 
    discussion back up!  Just looked back at notes 91.157-160whatever
    and noted the misunderstanding that arose.
    
    Again - the issue is not that we object to mixed breeds in
    commercials.  I volunteer at a shelter and have three mixed
    breeds myself.  The issue is the pet overpopulation problem that
    is running rampart in the U.S., and that the commercial seems to
    be promoting irresponsible breeding.
    
    I'm sure all the breeders in this notesfile will take exception
    to your statement about breeding in problems, and breeding out
    resistance.  Most **responsible** breeders make it their business
    to ensure the health of the animals they bring into this world.
    Most irresponsible people who don't spay and neuter their "moggie"
    kitties let their cats have more kittens usually who end up at shelters,
    or worse case dump them to fend for themselves in the wild, or
    if they're lucky, to be rescued by some kind soul (any noters
    come to mind??).  
    
    Because the problem is so out of control, most shelters have no
    recourse but to euthanize homeless pets to make room for more that
    are waiting at the door.  And the few shelters that don't euthanize
    are usually filled to capacity.
    
    So - again - I have nothing against showing moggies in commercials -
    I object to the seeming "promotion" of letting them breed irrespon-
    sibly.  I imagine since it's not a problem in the U.K., it's hard
    to understand our views.  Coming from a shelter perspective, however,
    I really feel strongly about this.
    
    Hope this clears up the confusion!
    
    thanks
    Pam

    I have a whine today. I also need some help if anyone can.
    
    Nancy Cross and I were out for a walk at lunch, and found a kitten,
    approxomaytelt 8 weeks old covered in motor oil! He (Indy, for Indy
    500, cause of the oil) is dirty as a worm! I'm so pissed that someone
    would let this little lovebucket get like this! GRRRRRRR!!!!1 :-(
    
    Anyway, one of the girls in my group is looking for a kitten, and will
    take him, if her landlord ok's it. I told her I would try to clean him
    up tonight for her. If she can't take him, he will go through a foster
    home with the shelter.
    
    Question. (I'm typing with one hand so forgive typos please. He's
    conked out in my lap) How does one clean up an 8 week old kitten
    covered in motor oil?! I don't want to use anything to harsh. Any
    advice would be most welcomeW
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

    Yonee,
    
    I am sure you will get lots of different advice on this one.  There are
    several things I would suggest on an older cat ..but on a kitten I
    would go with using a product called Basic H.  It's non-toxic,
    biodegradeble and cuts grease when all else fails.  As always, I would
    rinse it out throroughly ..but it should be safe on a kitten..
    
    Good luck,
    
    Linda

    Linda,
    
    	Where might one find Basic H? Sounds like a good thing to try.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Yonee (who is getting sick to her stomach smelling all the oil on this
    baby. Luckily, his belly is full, and he's curled up in my lap. ;-)  )

FWIW, what they use on wild animals affected by oil spills is Dawn dishwashing 
liquid.  Prob'ly easier to find than Basic H.


Pilar.

    
    
    	ALSO you should get her to the Vet to get a shot, 
    	so that she will not get petroleum poisoning. Just in case
    	she has injested some of the oil when cleaning....
    
    	Mike who has be already been throught this....
    
    
    	Keep us posted...
    
    	Good luck
    
    	Mike

    Hi again,
    
     Thanks to everyone who gave me such wonderful suggestions! Here's what
    I did. I ended up taking him home, and dousing him with wesson oil, and
    rubbing that in real well. Then I took a fine toothed comb, and combed
    out as much as I could. Then I toweled off as much of that as I could
    with paper towels. Then I bathed him twice with Ivory Clear for dishes.
    It worked really well!
    
     He still has a couple of little spots under his chin/cheek area, and I
    didn't get al the vegatable oil off his back, but wanted to get him dry
    as soon as I could, so he's still a bit scraggly, but he smells and
    looks so much better! 
    
     I'll be calling the shelter where I volunteer to get him to the vet,
    and into a foster home today. The home here fell through, but the
    foster home he'll be going to is a great one! 
    
     The inn is full, the inn is full, the inn..... 8-}
    
    Thanks again for all the help!
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee, (who is still whining that the little guy was alone in that
    condition in the first place)

    
    
    	Yonee,
    
    	Can I ask why you put the Wesson oil on first?  
    	(insert puzzled look here)
    
    	Jj
    

    Hi,
    
     Believe me I was puzzled too! ;-) I believe what the veggie oil does
    is lift off the motor oil that pretty well attaches itself to the
    strands of fur or something like that, and allows the dtergent to more
    easily clean off the veggie oil which carries the motor oil with it. 
    
     Or something on that idea anyway! ;-) I got the idea from a vet
    office. A vet also was the one who tols me to use Massengil powdered
    douche to clean skunk off my kitty, so even though it sounded weird to
    use MORE oil, I figured the strangest sounding methods usually work, so
    I tried that first! ;-) Go figure! How do they figure theses remedies
    out anyway! ;-) 8-)
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

    Yonee,
    I can vouch for the powdered Massengill!  It was suggested to me about 
    20 years ago when Spot got skunked.  Worked like a charm.  I was
    wondering if it is still on the market tho?  I haven't been looking for
    it per se', but it would be good to know!
    Karen

    Karen, it isn't easy to find these days, but some of the 'real'
    pharmacies (neighborhood as opposed to chains) still carry it. I used
    to pick it up whenever I saw it, cause Fluffy used to get hit EVERY
    spring! :-( ;-)
    
    Yonee

    It makes sense about the Wesson Oil.  I use baby oil to help clean
    stud tail out of my boy's tails.  The baby oil dissolves the greasy
    stud tail, and then I wash both out with shampoo.
    
    Another thing to try would be Goop.  My show cats get "gooped" on their
    ruffs, back legs, and tails before their show baths.
    
    Jo

    Holly called me about the Goop, and actually, it was one of the
    suggestions from my friend's wife, but since I already had the oils and
    detergent at the house, I tried that first.
    
    Also, the shelter vet technician was asking about the salad oil trick
    after I told them my cleaning routine for the little guy. They love to
    have all these little known tricks up their sleeves! ;-)
    
    He's at the vet now, and I can call after 10:00 to see how his testing
    went. Then I can pick him up this afternoon if all is well. We're about
    to find out if I'm any better a Foster Mom than Nancy Cross, or if he
    will become part of my household. ;-) 
    
    Hubby said he doesn't want to get too used to him! HE may be the
    problem, not me! Sound familiar Nancy? 8-)
    
    I'll let everyone know how little Indy is doing. Thanks for all the
    advice on cleaning him! I hitn I will invest in some goop though, just
    in case! ;-)
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

	To whoever was noting with me:

	I was going to mail you with the following, however, as your notes are 
	hidden, I do not know who you are, or your mail address;


	Reading your notes, I thought to myself

	"but that's the worst that happens, and only by people who don't know, 
	or care about the cats"

	I then though of what I said, and I could imagine you saying exactly 
	the same about what I said.

	I believe the pictures we painted are both one side of the coin, both 
	were the worst that happens in such cases.

	I am sorry your notes were deleted, as I find the discussions here,
	whether I am involved or not, or agree or not, always increase my 
	knowledge and understanding about cats and cultures.

	I also hope you understand that anything I have said was not
	personally directed at you, but at the issue being discussed.

	Heather

    Thank you for stating so, Heather.  It was also not a personal affront.
    I think we both said some important things. In a crunch, will write
    later!
    Karen
    

    I really need to whine about a phrase commonly used by "people" who are
    trying to place their cat(s) into new homes:
    
    				GET RID OF
    
    I REALLY HATE THIS TERM!!  I wish we could ban this phrase from the
    conference somehow.
    
    I also really hate it when women allow their husbands to dictate
    whether the cats stay or go.  But maybe this belongs in the
    "womannotes" conference, not Feline.
    
    WHINE, WHINE, WHINE.
    
    Okay, so part of this whining is due to a bad case of PMS.  Yonee, can
    I borrow that gun?...........  :^)
    
    -Roberta
    

    Last night on the news here in ATlanta they talked about how the
    gwinett county shelter had some puppies/kitties die this summer there
    because it was so hot and they dont have air conditioning.  It just
    broke my heart. Now the real kicker. The county commission says that
    before they would ever install air in the shelter places that public
    county building without air would get it first, since basically
    people are more important.  I was outraged. I person help move around
    and get to a air conditioned place. A poor animal, no less in a shelter
    can not!  I cant believe that money cannot be spent for this cause.
    
    
    Sandy

    re:.232
    
    Ro,
    
     What time do you want to meet to pick up the gun? ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    
     I totally agree with you about the phrase "get rid of". Really stinks
    to hear people say this. On second thought Ro, my gun may be busy for a
    while! 8-} ;-)
    
                                                              
    Yonee

    I once read an advert to place a cat because it "didn't fit in with the
    owner's lifestyle".
    For some reason this really irritated me!

I'd just like to state that there are some of us of the male persuasion who are
cat lovers. In fact I agitated for our two boys (my wife was skeptical, she's
decided she's a cat person now).

As for.235, how can a cat NOT fit in with your lifestyle? If you've got a pair
you don't need to do much but feed them, and change the box (though they DO
appreciate the attention). Perhaps if one traveled a great deal. 

Keith

    Keith,
    
     We all know there are men who are cat lovers. I'm married to one
    myself. It's just that not too many of them actually write about it
    like the guys we have in this file. I love to hear Len's stories, and
    Nat's stories, and all the other stuff put in here by men. I think guys
    get ribbed by other guys more for loving cats than do women, so it's
    always nice to see a few who don't care, and show how much they do love
    their kitties anyway!
    
     Keep it up! You won't get any flak in this notes file!!! 8-)
    
    Love,
    Yonee
    
     

    
    I've always been quite open about having (and loving) cats, and never
    taken any "ribbing" from any of my male friends.  They may not like
    cats enough to be owned by one or more themselves, but they don't
    think me unusual for it.  I think tolerance of and affection for cats
    is more a personality thing than a gender thing.
    
    Down in North Carolina last week, in Nags Head on the Outer Banks, we
    visited a cat specialty shop.  They had a plaque that said something
    to the effect of
    
    	The more people I meet, the more I like cats.
    
    len.
    

    Cat-loving men have been a tradition in my family for generations.
    
    My father was always calling home from work with a "can I bring it
    home?" request for Mom. He did this so often that at one point I was
    quite certain *I* had come into the world via the same method. ("Dad
    brings you home, they get you wormed, and give you a dish near the
    door. Don't poop in the closet or you'll have to sleep outside...")
    
    Edd

    Edd,
    
     I love it! Thanks for entering that! My dad was pretty much the same
    way, but never had a problem with my mom, cause she was a pushover too!
    I guess that's why I'm the way I am today! 8-}
    
    Gee, and I always thought I came frim the cabbage patch! 8-)
    
    Yonee

    My Dad is also an animal lover.  In fact, when I was little and brought
    home all the strays, it was always "Daddy, can I keep it?" cause I knew
    Mom would say no.  But his answer was always, "Ask your mother.", and
    she was a pushover as well.  I will never forget the time my Aunt
    called, asking my Dad if he wanted an Afghan (purebred dog) that she
    "found" who was being abused by it's owners.  He immediately said yes,
    even though we already had a large dog and 2 cats at the time.  When we
    asked my Mom if we could have an Afghan, she thought it was a rug and
    said sure.  Then she started thinking, why is Aunt Helene in such a
    hurry to drive up an Afghan rug from New York, and finally realized
    what we meant but it was too late... the dog was already in transit!!
    
    Anyway, even my brother is a cat lover and has two of his own.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I wonder what happened to me....at my house we always had ONE pet..
    and one pet only!!!!  Mom and Dad liked animals...but would not
    allow me to bring home strays.   Ha...I guess I'm making up
    for it now!!!!!
    
    Sandy (Barkley, Poco, Angus, chloe, Dewey, Abby, Bogie, J.C
          Van gogh. Moses....and Rio, Reggie and Ziggy)

    
    
    	That was *too* funny Edd!  =)
    
    

    	Real men own Exotic Short Hairs.
    
    Mike
    
    ;~)	

    Well, I wasn't going to whine about this, because when the saga
    started, it wasn't a true whine, it was a situation that just got out
    of control, but now...... :-(
    
    Last weekend, my shelter had it's annual yard sale, (they did very well
    BTW), and a woman came up to me and handed me an envelope. I opened it
    up and there was a note about a friend of this woman who had some cats
    that needed to be placed. OH, so what else is new, right?
    
    So, I took the woman over to the president of our shelter and had her
    read the note. We asked her a bunch of questions, and found out that
    the woman with the cats, loved them very much, and they were all
    friendly and everything, but that her son is very ill, and hospital
    and doctor bills are causing major problems for her in taking proper
    care of her pets.
    
    The board of health had been called in also, and she was warned to get
    her cat count down, and we all know what that can mean.
    
    Anyway, the president asked me if I could go and assess the situation,
    as I lived the closest to them, and I agreed. When I got there, I found
    three very sweet unspayed females, three 7 week old kittens from one
    litter, and four five week old kittens from another litter, which I
    found out were partially hand raised by the woman and this friend,
    when the mother was sick after delivering them, so I knew it really 
    was a loving home. (The friend paid the 100.00 or so vet bill by the
    way!) These were the ones she wanted to place.
    
    There was also another beautiful female nursing three day old kittens
    (6). The mother however was still bleeding three days after delivery! I
    told them this kitty had to get to the vet ASAP, and they agreed. (I'm
    sure the friend is paying for that too.)
    
    So, I left there thinking we could probably help, but promising
    nothing, as I knew nothing about the criteria my shelter uses as to who
    gets help, and who doesn't. I gave a two page report to the shelter
    president, (which she thought was great BTW) and we were all ready to
    make the decision, when the phone rang, and I was informed that the
    sick mom had indeed gone to the vet, they had done an emergeny
    hyterectomy, AND THEN, she was test for FELV and came up positive!!!!
    
    This is really my whine! This woman has really tried to keep things
    going with her cats, but finacially just couldn't do it, and now that
    she has finally asked for help, we may not be able to take ANY of these
    kitties, as they may all be FELV positive, and we'd have to test them
    all, then wait three months and test again! We just don't have enough
    foster homes with the facilities to isolate at least 9 kitties for
    three momths! I'm so bummed today I can't believe it!
    
    However, the vet that got the positive result is not our shelter vet,
    and we don't know if it was by a blood test or not, so we are going to
    test that female again, and see what happens. Keep your fingers crossed
    that the other vet may have made a mistake!
    
    Sorry this was so long winded, but I really felt a need to get this off
    my chest. I feel so helpless right now. All these kitties are very
    sweet, and very adoptable, and now they may all need to be destroyed
    for lack of FELV positive homes to take them! Maybe if I hadn't met
    them all, and held them all, I wouldn't feel quite so bad, but there is
    one teeny weeny kitten that kept climbing my leg to be held while I
    was there! :-( What a sweetie!
    
    Thanks for listening to me whine!
    
    Color me bummed,
    
    Yonee 
    

    Sigh...how sad!!   It is very possible that many of those cats 
    living in the house are negative...but it is a real problem trying 
    to "foster" them for the 3 months you need to wait to have them
    tested.   Please keep us posted....and I know this must be a real
    bummer for you.
    
    Regarding this lady...I do understand that she loves animals and she
    wanted to help...but in reality (with all those kittens) she was
    not helping the cat population problem at all.   I personally see
    how someone can get way over their head (I'm almost there!!) in
    trying to rescue cats....but everyone reaches their max and must
    be strong enough to turn their back and close the door.   If you
    can afford to probably take care of them (vets included)...it's
    time to stop!!
    
    I would rescue 500 cats a year...if there were homes or places that
    would take them and provide proper care.   It's real sad out there...
    and working at shelters (as you now know) you really get to see/hear
    some awful horror stories.    You must keep in your mind at all
    times...how many cats/kittens your shelter has saved and feel good
    about that.
    
    Chin up...fingers crossed...and love to you!
    
    Sandy

    Thanks Sandy!
    
     I needed that! I know that some or even most of the cats could be
    negative. It's so sad that there are so many that would need to be
    isolated for so long if the new momcat turns out to really be positive.
    I just don't think the shelter could handle all of this at once.
    
     If they were ferals, and hated people, and were starving or something
    like that, it would still be awful, but at least I wouldn't have
    actually cuddled them all! :-( This way, I've already fallen in love
    with every one of the sweet things. It's also really sad to think that
    they hand fed one litter for two solid weeks while momcat got better,
    only to maybe lose them all anyway! :-( I feel bad for the friend who
    has been trying to help her out too. That lady has three indoor only
    cats herself to care for, plus her family, so she can't have too much
    extra money either. 
    
     Sigh, I hate times like this. I'll let you al know what the test
    results are, and what decisions are going to be made, when I hear.
    
     Love,
    
     Yvonee-the-extremely-bummed

    My thoughts are with you too, Yonee!  I felt that way with the momcat
    and her kittens I befriended years ago when they all turned up positive
    for leukemia.
    
    I realize this woman feels she is doing right by the cats, but if only
    more people would realize that the cost of a one-time spay is so much
    cheaper in the long run than allowing the female to breed at random. 
    Complications from pregnancy and the cost of raising kittens far
    exceeds the cost of the surgery.
    
    Sigh...
    
    
    -Roberta
    

    My sympathies too, Yonee - remember I'm just across the way if you
    need someone to commiserate in person with !!

    Hang in there and hope for the best,
    Debbi

    My sympathies too, Yonee.  I'll keep fingers and paws crossed hoping
    that the test results was wrong and the cat is really negative.  
    
    Take care of yourself.
    Steffi
    

    Thanks so much to everyone. I know this woman knows she should have had
    the cats spayed, but it just got out of control, and now she's over her
    head, and doesn't know what to do. I'm not sure she realizes yet what
    the impact might be if her Momcat is in fact positive.  The shelter
    president is going to get back to me when we have more info, as I
    volunteered to go and pick up all these kitties if the shelter was/is
    going to help out.
    
    I'll just have to wait and pray. Seems to be Standard operating
    procedure in here lately. Anyway, I hope everyone has some good news to
    post after the weekend! I'll keep the faith somehow. I can't begin to
    tell you how glad I am to have this file and all the wonderful folks in
    it to lean on in times like this. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee

    I know this isn't a whine, but I started this thread here, and figured
    I'd finish it here.
    
    My whine about the group of cats that I had checked out for the
    shelter, and had one come up FELV positive, is really FELV
    negative!!!!! YEEHAW!!!!!
    
    I guess the first vet that the Momcat went to only did a saliva test
    (which I had never heard of) and they are VERY unreliable. Thankd God
    our shelter always double checks these things! They took Mom and
    kittens to our shelter vet, and hed her retested. NEGATIVE!!!! That
    means the rest of the crew are most likely negative.
    
    The president of the shelter will be calling me soon to let me know
    when to go pick up the three adult females to get them to the vet for
    spaying. They are most likely already pregnant, as there is a broken
    screen in the lady's basement, and they go in and out here. They will
    probably abort the kittens. This is sad, but not as sad to me as the
    thought of putting down 17 healthy cats/kittens becuase of an
    unreliable test. I love the shelter I volunteer at!
    
    The kittens will be picked up as we get foster homes for them. There
    have been a lot of kittens adopted from fosters lately, so I'm hoping
    there will be space real soon. I'm still going to be the one to pick
    them up too! ;-)
    
    So, retract my whine as far as being depressed about them all being put
    down. I guess I can still whine that the situation occureed at all, but
    I knnow this lady really did try, and it got out of hand. But, it will
    all be remedied soon!
    
    Thanks to all of you for listening! What a nice way to start a weekend!
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee 

    Great news Yonee.......

    I just sit here, shivering full of hatred and anger...
    I wrote many lines here, and deleted them again for the mods had to
    purge it all anyway... I just don't know what to do but I have to let
    it out!
    
    Last wednesday evening in the european satellite TV channel 'RTL' in
    the magazine 'Explosive' there was a report.
    
    Somewhere in a small town in Germany there is a... I don't know what. A
    person killed more than 50 cats, before he tormented and tortured and
    mutilated and crippled and burned them in an awful way... Families have
    found cutoff heads and the like of their cats on the doorstep... They
    have thoughts about who it can be, but there are no evidences so the
    police cannot do anything... peolple just walk in patrol across the
    town to try to do something... WHAT COULD WE DO???
    
    I feel so guilty! I *********.
    
    I go mad!
    
    Nat 

    Nat,
    I am sorry that you have had to see and think about this.  It is 
    terrible what people do.  I don't know what to say.
    Karen

    We had a similar case in the UK about a year ago. This (I can't think
    of a word low enough to describe him) mostly targetted cats, but also
    killed other pets he could find. 
    They caught him in the end and he was jailed. The residents have said 
    that they won't have him back there - he'll be a very brave man if he 
    tries to go back home and, given his record up to date, the last
    adjective I'd use to describe him is "courageous".
    
    I too cannot understand the mentality of monsters like this. They are not
    fit to be called human. They are truly sick. 

    I just need to whine about all the cats up for adoption recently, and
    the reasons they are being given away.  It absolutely amazes me how
    many people give up their animals when human children arrive, and why
    they just can't MAKE time for them.  My mother managed to do it, and I
    know I will too.
    
    Sigh, it is so frustrating because few people realize just how difficult
    it is to find homes, and that all of us Feliners are over max as it is.

Roberta,

I feel exactly the way you do...I can understand if it's for medical reasons,
but I can't understand any other reasons.  Hopefully the cats up for adoption
will find families who are committed to providing for them their whole lives.

Laura

    Roberta and Laura,
    Those people are not "animal" people. Simple.  I already had two dogs
    when my son was born, and proceeded to take in two cats and another
    dog!  You feed one, you feed 5, you groom one, you groom 5. No big
    deal, if you love animals.  When I was expecting, you wouldn't believe
    how many people asked me what I was going to do with my pets! As if
    having one precluded having the other!  I always answered "Nothing. My
    pets are not disposable."  Some people ...
    Sarah

    
    
    It is beyond me that how one after having a pet to the ripe old age
    of 14 will dump it 'cuase it doesn't fit their life style anymore.
    But atleast give them credit for trying to find a home for them.
    If we keep whining about this, it might discourage them to use this
    file and that's not fair to the poor cats. 
    
    Shaw 

    Sarah, I admire you for taking the time, because so many people don't. 
    They use "no time" as an excuse for everything... pets, exercise, etc. 
    While I know it is difficult to do everything, trade-offs can be made.
    
    Gee, maybe when I finally do have children I'll find a home for my
    first when my second child is due.  :^)  Imagine if I posted that
    in Parenting notes?  Toddler for adoption; expecting second and must
    ged rid of the first ASAP...
    
    There should be more people like Sarah around.
    

    I suppose People would think me odd, but kids, just because we can have
    them, are not "just wonderful little bundles of joy".  At least no more
    than a basket full of kittens!  I have chosen not to have children and
    really prefer my responsibiites to my animals.  Every time one of my
    queens has babies, I feel like a new mom.  I buy receiving blankets,
    toys anything they might need.  I let them live on my bed for their
    first few weeks of life and like it!
    
    My theory is: first come, first taken care of in this house!
    karen

    I remember reading a note in hear about someone asking advice on
    what to do now that their fiance was moving in and very allergic to
    cats.
    
    Personally, and I've thought about it, I don't know what I'll do when I
    finally have kids, if any were allergic to them....because I can't see 
    myself ever giving up my 5 kitty bundles of joy...they may not be human, 
    but they are my babies...my kids....
    
    -one who would never give up my cats for any man (who might be single
    for the rest of her life...too)

    Reminds me of a t-shirt I keep threatening to purchase and wear
    to my allergist's office (his first statement was "get rid of the
    cats").
    
    It has a picture of a cat sitting amongst some blocks and other
    children's toys.  It says...
    
    			We got rid of the children.
    
    
    			The cat was allergic.
    
    
    
    Jan
    

    My whine for the day...
    
    Last night a very large male tabby was trying to "do" Li'l Red.
    She was having none of this but each time I walked outside to
    see what the commotion was he had her by the scruff and was 
    attempting to position his big body over her tiny one.  She 
    just wouldnt' cooperate.
    
    So now I'm really annoyed at the lack of education my cat-owning
    neighbors seem to have over spaying and neutering.  Well, I've
    always been annoyed (since there are bunches of unneutered males
    running around) it's just really getting to me today.  Of course,
    none of these cats are collared either so I can't tell who they
    belong too.  It seems, sometimes, that they all belong to me.
    
    Wish I could find a wealthy sponor for the intensive TTVAR (Trap,
    Test, Vaccinate, Alter and Release) program I'd like to implement
    in my neighborhood.  I honestly believe my apartment management 
    should have some special agreement in the lease that says cats must
    be spayed or neutered to be allowed here.  'course knowing these
    people they'd all dump their cats before moving in.
                                                       
    Woe is me....
    
    Jan

    But first, the owners should be TTVARed, *then* the cats.  We need to
    be sure that they don't make any more, either.
    
    Just kidding...hmmm, I  wonder...
    Carl

    Carl,
    If you take a look at the whole big picture.  Nature kinda takes care
    of itself.  Pestilence, famine, drought, tornadoes etc.  I think
    balance is a natural thing.  It's us humans that have pushed the
    envelope and, hmmm, I have wondered the same thing.  Goes back to
    my earlier note, just cause we can doesn't mean we have to!
    Karen

    
    
    We have whined in here before about people's excuses for giving up
    their loving pets (which they probably didn't deserve to begin with)
    but this particular one just real got me all flamed up!
    
    two cats for adoption in other file, reason for giving the cats
    away, kids have outgrown them. %*&#@
    
    Shaw

    
    
    	Shaw,
    
    	You beat me to it.....I was going to place the same whine.
    	Irritated me to no end...I was this () close to sending
    	the guy mail but decided it wasn't a good idea no matter
    	how mad I was.
    
    	Now on a different note....another whine....I always stop
    	in the pet stores when I'm at a mall to say hi to all the
    	babies.  Well today there was an Aby kitten that a clerk
    	was about to put back in the cage but I asked to hold him
    	instead.  Within seconds this little guy wraps his paws
    	around my neck and starts sniffing and kissing my face!
    	What an absolute doll he was!  My whine is that I couldn't
    	take him home.....my friend asked how much he was and that's
    	a real major whine.... $800 !!!!
    
    	JJ
    

    I heard one like this once. the cat "didn't fit in with his lifestyle".
    
    Mind you, in that case, it's a good job he got the cat another, happier
    home, but what on earth was he doing getting the cat in the first
    place?

    
    re .272 - Obviously, he was trying it out to see if it fit in with his
    lifestyle.  If you think of animals as some sort of property, you can
    avoid all the difficult issues.
    
    len.
    

    One of the breeders in our cat club (Havana Brown Fanciers) had a
    cat she sold returned to her because "the cat was too friendly and
    affectionate" and what was needed was a cat that could "take care of
    itself."  From this person's position, one must reach up to touch the
    lowest life forms.
    
    Also @#&%,
    Carl

    Well, that person put the note in here about the kids outgrowing the
    cats.  Wow, what a way to teach children responsibility!  It's really
    too bad we must value differences and allow something that offensive to
    remain here.
    
    Of course one day if I have children I just know I'm going to be
    entering something similar in the Parenting notesfile...
    
    "Two toddlers for adoption; me and the cats have outgrown them.  Free
    to good home.  All replies welcomed."
    
    It's a good thing this note is here to whine into!
    
    -Roberta
    

    hummm, I looked for the note in question but I guess its gone ? anyway
    some people have no good reason for WANTing to be a caretaker for a
    Cat. I say this becuz thats what it takes to WANT a Cat in your home.
    You must give the Cat love, understanding (because most of the weird
    things they do are very natural for them to do, except maybe sleeping
    in the bathroom sink which Navajo found out was very cool during the
    hot days !) and most of all your time !!! otherwise why waste the Cats
    time.
    
    to bad some people don't understand what having a pet (of any type)
    really means.
    
    Chris

    
    
    No the note is not gone its in cats looking for homes note.
    The sad thing is these people set a bad example for their kids too.
    They never learn to understand/appreciate or value their pets feelings
    and antics or life for that matter. 
    
    They probably do not understand the impact of their actions. I just
    wish such people would stick to buying stuffed toys for their kids
    instead of live beings that so inecently grow to depend on them for
    food and shelter.
    
    Shaw
    
    I atleast give this person credit for attempting to find a new home
    for these poor cats that were unfortunate enough to end up at his 
    household.
     

	Hopefully a loving person (family) will adopt those cats.  I fail to
see how anyone can "outgrow" a pet, especially since one of the cats is only
a year old.  I wish people would understand that pet ownership is a lifetime
committment!  I can understand having to give a cat up for adoption in cas of
extreme allergic reaction, or moving to another country, but that's about it!

	Laura

Why so much animosity about the person trying to find a new home for his
cats?  If you know that your lifestyle or whatever no longer allows you
to provide a good home for your pet, isn't finding a more suitable home
for them the responsible thing to do?
       Craig

    I think the issue here is that so many people view pets as
    "disposable", i.e.:  when we tire of them or can't find room for them
    in our lives anymore we can just find them another home.  Not to
    mention the parents who don't want pets, but get them for their
    children, only children usually don't have the attention span to view
    a pet as a life-long commitment, nor do the parents bother to teach
    them.
    
    I personally feel a great deal of animosity towards these types of
    people.  Yeah, there are times when I wish I didn't have my cats, when
    their brattiness makes me want to put them all outside for good, when I
    think of how much easier my life would be without pets, but finding new
    homes for them isn't an option.  I made a commitment to them when I got
    them... a lifetime of commitment, and I intend to keep it.
    
    A friend of mine recently found a new home for his cat because his
    girlfriend is allergic (she's now a fiance after only 6 months of
    dating).  When he cried (literally) to me of his loss I had no sympathy
    to offer, only pity that he was that desparate to have a woman in his
    life that he gave away his "best friend" (what he always called his cat)
    in the process.  And I have a strong hunch this marriage won't work and
    he'll wish he had kept his cat.
    
    I don't expect everyone to love cats (all animals in fact) as much as I
    do, but I can feel whatever way I wish towards those who don't treat
    them with the respect and love that they deserve.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I certainly agree with .279 - it's better than chucking the cat(s) out
    to fend for themselves. It's just the attitude. Some people don't seem
    to think before getting an animal as a pet and it's a shame that the
    cat(s) must be uprooted from their home simply because of someone's
    shortsightedness.                                                    

	As others have said, the person is trying to do the right thing.
	And one great thing about animals, they are usually very quick
	to adapt when their new home provides them with love and attention.
	Give them some leway, especially given the fact we don't even know
	the full story.

    
    
    	I don't remember what town this was in but.....on the news
    	last night they said they're looking for the person who 
    	dumped a cat and her kittens at the local landfill....tied
    	up in a plastic bag!  Within a couple days all 5 (?) kittens
    	died.  Mom cat is doing well (and is a beautiful cat) at 
    	the local animal shelter.  They have records of everyone 
    	that entered the landfill but the chances of them actually
    	catching the person are slim.  One of the guys at the 
    	landfill said that if a person was heartless enough to
    	what they did, it would probably be pretty easy for them
    	to lie and deny it.

    Ok, I am normally a read only noter BUT yesterday I saw the most 
    horrible thing.  I was on my way to a friends house when I came upon
    a Mom cat and 4 little kittens.  All were very very thin.  One of them
    was  playing in the road, so I stopped to see if it would come to me. 
    It ran...  but there was another on  sitting on the sidewalk, I slowly
    went to it, when it got up to move away from me, it's back leg was
    completely turned around.  The poor little guy.  I did the only thing
    that I thought I could.  I stopped at the police station and had them
    call the animal officer.  It took me five minutes at the station, by
    the time I got back to where the kittens were, the police were there
    trying to catch them.  We only got one, the poor little guy with a
    broken leg.  As we were trying to catch the others a woman stopped and
    told the officers which house the kittens are from and that all the
    other skinny cats are from there also.  At least I know that something
    will be done about it!!!  Boy were the officers MAD!!  I can't stand
    people!!!  It makes me so angry that no one did anything before this.
    Well I am going to check to see if all the kittens were caught.  I am
    also going to call about the injured kitten. (I'm 24 and live at home,
    got it good there)  I have one cat and I am  going to beg and plead to
    take this little kitten.  My father has a soft spot, I know once he
    sees this little guy he won't be able to resist.  My mother on the
    other hand, if she thought she could get away with it, would take all
    the kittens.  Thanks for listening.  
    
    Jill

    
    
    	Good job Jill.....
    
    	I am sure that you will be able to care for the little guy.
    
    	Last winter I adopted a 1.5 year old male tigger. When  I took
    	him to the vets for the checkup and shots we discovered that
    	during one of his 9 lives his right rear leg had been broken
    	and healed. He walks a little funny, but is a real love bug....
    
    	Keep us posted...
    
    	Mike

    Jill...Great job and thanks for helping the little tykes!!  I'm
    not sure where the animal control officer brought the cats, but
    if you are interested in the little one I would suggest you
    contact them immediately just in case the kitten ended up in 
    a kill shelter and the potential for being put to sleep right
    away is great. (tis kitten season and all shelters are full and
    I hear animals are being put to sleep rather quickly because of
    over-crowding)
    
    It's truly terrible how some folks think they do not need to
    take responsiblity for thier animals.  It's bad enough that
    this lady didn't spay/neuter the pets...but to leave tiny
    helpless kittens outside (especially with a broken leg) is truly
    sickening!!
    
    Sandy

    Well my mother is on my side, she is calling the animal control officer
    today to find out where the  kitten is.  Hopefully I can still get
    him/her before it's too late.  I live in Townsend, does anyone have any
    ideas where I can bring the other kittens, if they are still there?  I
    rather see them go to some place where they have a chance at being
    adopted.  They are beautiful, calico, with big blue eyes!!  I can sneak
    one into the family, but that's all :*(    I know that the animal
    control officer will run an ad in the paper, I have seen them do it
    before...  So hopefully!!!  I will let everyone know how it turns out.
    
    Jill

    Jill...you hit the problem right on the head...."what do I do
    with the cats"!!   This is the issue...rescuing cats/kittens is
    the easiest part -  trying to find homes for them afterwards that
    becomes the issue.  I personally know of many areas in the Fitchburg,
    Leominster, and Lunenbury area that are full with stray cats.  I'd
    be MORE then willing to give the time to rescue all of them..but what
    do you do with them afterwards????  The options are limited:
    
     o Pay to have the medical work done and foster them until you can
       find them all homes.
     o You can attempt to call no-kill shelters, but I can guarentee most
       of them are way beyond capacity because it is kitten season and most
       are not accepting new cats.  An expample is the Pat Brody Shelter
       has over 100 cats...and we still have approximately 40 kittens who
       are being fostered in homes and will end up at the shelter in a
       month. 
     o Take them to a kill shelter...where their chances are slim and most
       will be put to sleep within a day or two because of
       overcrowdedness!
     o Attempt to call local vets and ask if they place kittens.
    
    It's so sad...there are too many people who don't take responsibility
    for their animals causing so many unwanted animals who's life is
    doomed even before they reach 6 months old.
    
    Good luck....I have rescued 18 cats from my neighborhood but have had
    to put my rescue attempts on hold because I just can't afford to keep
    them all and as you can see the options are very limited!!
    
    Sandy
    
    Sandy
    

    Firstly (and most importantly): Jill, thank goodness you were there to
    do something for that poor little kitten. I hope you manage to find
    homes for them all. 
    
    
    Trivial but irritating whine coming up:
    
    Why do the shops think that, by removing your cat's favourite food from
    the shelves and replacing it with cheaper varieties at a cut price
    offer, they will induce you to buy the cheaper brand?
    
    Don't these people OWN cats? Can they not comprehend the fact that, if
    they were giving away their own-brand muck FREE, my cats would not
    degrade themselves even to sniff at it?

    Julie...it's not trivial at all!!!  Another whine..Just recently 9-lives 
    changed their Tuna and Egg brand and it is now New and Improved!!  Ya 
    right...out of 12 cats none of mine will eat the new improved food. 
    Considering I use to buy a case of this food a week (along with other
    cases) the company is the one that's going to lose out and I think
    I'll write them a letter telling them!!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    
    	Sandy,
    
    	Sounds like you have some pretty hard facts to send the 9-Lives
    	folks, 
    
    	12 cats survey, none will eat new improved Tuna and Egg.
    
    
    	8^)
    
    	Mike

    Well, I've whined before about the idio...er...I mean residents
    at my apartment complex moving off and leaving their cats behind.
    But, I have a new gripe along those same lines. 
    
    Last night I almost became foster mom to a beautiful rabbit (and
    it may still happen).  It was hopping around the parking lot
    unattended last night when some of us spotted it.  Guess what,
    you can't pick up a rabbit by the scruff, you have to use grasp
    their ears a little to get them to hold still. :^)  Anyway, I
    picked up the rabbit and we proceeded to figure out which apartment
    was currently his owner.  Apparently the prior owners had moved and
    given him/her/it to some other people in the complex.  According to
    the young lady "in-the-know" the people currently in ownership don't
    particularly want the rabbit and don't care for it very well.  
    
    I took the rabbit to that apartment and knocked on the door.  A 
    non-resident looked out the upstairs window and said he didn't know
    anything about it.  So, I checked the cage (situated in a really
    high garbage are of the patio) for food (carrots) and water (1/2
    bottle) and locked the cage.  I told the non-resident to let the
    people know that I was in #22 in case they really didn't want the
    rabbit.
    
    I'm really annoyed.  I don't know the first thing about rabbits
    but will take this one and try to find it a better home if they
    don't really want it and are planning to continue to let it roam
    free.  
    
    ArrrgghhhhH!!!!
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  Any advice on rabbits, feeding of rabbits, caring for rabbits
          and dealing with rabbits with cats will be greatly appreciated
          if this does happen.

    RE: .91
    
    They lost THE FIRM's business when they stopped making Western Menu.
    Every cat I knew (i.e., cats of friends) loved it.
    
    Deb

    I used to have a rabbit years ago and, from what I remember, they're
    easy enough to care for. You just need to feed them regularly and make
    sure they always have water nearby. Pet shops usually do rabbit food. Our 
    rabbit was as fussy as any cat over his food - would only eat food bought 
    from a particular shop. I don't think this is the norm, however.
    Bunny will appreciate a hutch with a run - always make sure his bedding
    is clean and fresh. 
    Be especially careful to make sure that he is kept clean in hot
    weather. If a rabbit is under the weather, he can't keep the flies off
    aand I've known a few rabbits to die particularly unpleasant deaths as
    a result. 
    We used to take our rabbit to the vet to get his claws and teeth
    trimmed. In the wild, rabbits gnaw on wood etc to keep their teeth
    down. Provide some wood for him by all means, but don't be surprised if
    you need to take him anyway. 
    In my experience, cats and rabbits can live together quite happily, but
    I wouldn't leave them alone together, just in case!

    Thanks, Julie.  I'm hoping it won't come to this but I'll print out
    the info just in case.
    
    Jan

    By the way,
    
    Correct way to handle a rabbit, from memory:
    
    If it's a young rabbit, one hand under his tummy, the other hand
    holding his ears.
    If it's an older or large rabbit (ours was HUGE), then one hand
    grasping his scruff and the other supporting his rear.
    
    NEVER pick a rabbit up by the ears alone, especially a heavy rabbit. 

    Thanks for the tips.  Just to be sure there's no misunderstanding,
    I DID NOT pick the rabbit up by just it's ears.  I grasped the
    ears gently to calm him then put my hand under its front arms
    and lifted.  Once he was calm and lifted I used my other hand to
    support his hind legs.  When he got upset/excited again I put 
    my hand gently around his ears while still holding under his 
    front legs with the other hand and he calmed down.  Never, at any
    time was this rabbit lifted by the ears only.  The ears were
    used more like the scruff of a cat would be used to get it to
    relax and hold still.
    
    Just want to be sure I was clear in my other message.  I was 
    probably in a hurry and muffed it up when I wrote it.
    
    Jan

    Hi Jan,
    
         Having 3 cats and 8 rabbits (among other critters), I can vouch
    for the fact that rabbits and cats get along quite well (in fact, the
    cats were afraid of the rabbits, how's *that* for role reversal ;^) )?
    
         I knew even before you put in the last reply that you didn't pick
    up bunny by the ears.  But ... you really shouldn't touch the ears at
    all if you can except for very gentle patting, they are *very* delicate 
    and a tad too much squeezing *hurts*.  Momma rabbit doesn't touch baby's 
    ears either.  The correct way to pick up a bunny is either with one hand 
    around the front legs, one hand supporting the rump or one hand on the 
    scruff, one hand on the rump.  Be very careful to keep bunny from 
    kicking - their spines are weak and they can literally break their 
    backs in the struggle.  
    
         Bunnies like to have their heads stroked between the ears and
    above the nose - that calms them down pretty well 8-) .
    
         Food is hay (for roughage), pellets and a once-a-day treat of
    lettuce (dark like romaine, *never* iceberg), carrots, broccoli,
    banana, etc.  A couple of papaya tablets each day (can get them from a
    pharmacy or health food store) keeps the bowels working.  Unlike a cat,
    which can barf up a hairball, bunny's digestive tract works only one
    way.  If a hairball develops, it can get stuck, cause an obstruction
    and, if not treated, bunny can die.  Prevention is the best cure (hay
    and papaya tablets), but we've pulled quite a few bunnies through so if
    you had this problem, you could just ask me or anyone else who's been
    through this.
    
         Bunnies have kind of strange digestive tracts; they digest their
    food twice.  After one pass through the digestive system, they drop
    droppings called "night feces" or "cecal pellets".  These are very
    soft, and look like little clusters of grapes.  Normally bunny will eat
    these (ick!); they contain vitamins and other nutrients.  Once through
    the system again, they come out as normal hard droppings.  If bunny
    doesn't eat all of them, that's okay, just be careful taking them out
    of the cage as they are *very* smelly.  Luckilly the majority of
    pellets you'll see are normal non-smelly feces.
    
         Do *not* line the cage bottom with cedar - cedar smells nice, but
    the fumes can cause liver damage.  If you must use shavings, pine is
    better, but still not great.  Corn cob bedding, or even rabbit pellets
    (food) make good tray material.  Newspapers work too, but you'll have
    to change them often.
    
         Bunnies like toys, like those cat balls-with-bells-inside.  They
    like to chew wood to wear down their teeth; we only have one bunny
    who's teeth we have to clip because she has malocclusion (the teeth
    don't line up so they don't grind each other down).  You would have to
    clip nails, but that no worse than kitty nails (and they don't retract,
    so you don't get the "dammit-stop-pulling-those-nails-in" syndrome ;^)
    ).
    
         You can keep bunny either as a semi-house bunny (keep in cage but
    let out for exercise when you're home) or as a real house bunny (bunny
    proof your home and let the bunny run with the cats).  It's up to you
    how much time and effort you want to spend.  Bunnies have real
    personalities.  They can be litter-box trained too, at least for the
    urine (which would be the offensive part, the bowel movements are nice
    dry little pellets {except for the cecal pellets}).  
    
         I've probably made this sound a lot harder than it really is, but
    I figured I'd do a semi-core-dump of my bunny knowhow ;^) .  I think
    you'd have a blast with a bunny, especially with the interaction
    between bunny and kitties 8-) !
    
         Please let us know how it turns out!
    
    					- Andrea

         Please make sure, if you keep bunny, to get a vet that has
    experience with bunnies (you might have to find an "exotic" vet). 
    Bunnies are quite different from cats and dogs, and finding a good vet
    can be a challenge.  At least bunny doesn't need shots, so that only
    visits would be for illness, unless you want to do regular checkups.
    
    					- Andrea

    It's OK - I never thought you picked him up by the ears (he wouldn't
    have been so docile if you had!). I was just mentioning it as a general
    warning.

    Oh, and by the way, if you're keeping him outside, remember that
    bunnies burrow! We ended up chasing ours round the neighbours' gardens
    a few times and he was a devil to catch. I remember my next door neighbour 
    once informing him that "rabbits have ended up in the pot for less than 
    this!" 

    I sure hope it doesn't come down to my taking the bunny.  I've got
    enough trouble trying to find homes for all the stray cats before
    I move.  But, I really appreciate all the good advice.
    
    Andrea, all that information you've given has made me realize that
    this bunny is not in a healthy situation.  He's in a wire cage, no
    padding on the floor, a bottle of water, a couple of carrots.
    There's not much else there except a wadded up ball of paper or two.
    In addition to that, the patio is loaded with junk.
    
    I'm wondering if I should call the animal welfare/humane society 
    people to check him out.  I haven't heard from those people on 
    whether or not they want to keep him yet.  I suspect the person I
    talked to may not have said anything to them or that they've just
    decided it's none of my business, or maybe they're just too lazy
    to deal with it.
    
    I'm thinking about checking the patio tonight or tomorrow night 
    just to see if the bunny is still there.
    
    Jan

    91.300 & 301
    
    Thanks.  I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew I didn't pick him
    up by the ears (even though the little girl helping insisted I should).
    
    Thanks for the advice about burrowing.  Unfortunately for bunny, he
    won't have that opportunity.  I live in the concrete jungle in a dive
    apartment complex.  No dirt available.  
    
    Jan
    

    Hi Jan,
    
         A wire-mesh cage is okay (unless bunny is subject to sore hocks
    (sores on the feet) - we have one that is so she is in a carpeted cage
    - do we spoil our pets or what ;^) ), and the water bottle is okay, but
    a couple of carrot is *not* a nutritious diet.  That would be
    equivalent to feeding a cat a spoonful of people-tuna and that's it. 
    
         Perhaps it is time to call animal welfare.  Or perhaps the people
    will let you have the bunny; there are no-kill shelters that accept
    rabbits, and the House Rabbit Society has many fosterers throughout the
    country.  Poor bunny, I feel sorry for him/her.
    
    					- Andrea

    I haven't seen hide nor hair of the hare :^) since my initial contact. 
    The people in that townhouse are keeping their gate closed these days.
    I'd like to go check on the rabbit but if the gate is closed I don't 
    feel comfortable entering (since their sliding glass door/front door
    is right there).  I'll try to find the little girl who knew so much 
    about the rabbit before and see if she knows anything else about it.
    If I find the gate open and the townhouse unoccupied, I'll go check
    it out.
    
    Jan 

    Friend on holidays calls my mobile phone: "Nat, YOU are the person for
    that... I found a sick kitten, what should I do?"
    
    Kitten was severely broken, blind, bleeding and in halfcoma...took to
    the vet...could not be rescued...had to be euthanized on site. Don't
    wanna talk about. Just whine. I had to.
    
    Rest in peace at the rainbow bridge, Jeremeow, until all we meet again.
    
    Nat  8-(

    
    
    Nat,  sorry for your experience. However to add some grins I love
         the name you gave the poot kitty, Jeremeow ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Nat, that is too bad.  I am sorry.  The good side of this story, and
    for all of us is that people call us when in need.  When someone has no
    one to ask what to do, they can count on feliners at least for a little
    advice!
    Glad you were there for your friend.
    Karen

   Nat,

   I'm so sorry - it's hard to see them go, even when they don't "own"
   you !!

   I'll add Jeremeow to the SLM listing........

   Debbi

    At least he went with a proper name, and several of us with tears in
    our eyes for the poor thing.  Sorry you had to go through this : (
    Sarah

    Thank you all for comforting words, and thanks D. for SLM, too. I just
    finished an oil painting from my cat Smokey and dedicated it to
    Jeremeow as I signed it.
    
    Nat, still :-(

    Ack!!  I just get done pumping decongestants and antibiotics into
    Onxy (who caught a cold shortly after the 4 fosters moved inside--
    probably from the stress of it all) and next thing I know I'm hearing
    sneezing again.  Lo and behold, Joey has come down with a cold.
    
    I picked up the antibiotics at lunch today and gave him a dose.
    I'm wondering who will be next.  I can just see this making the
    rounds of all 8 cats.  Whhhhiiiiinnnnnne!!!!
    
    Jan

    Joey's sneezing has stopped.  He's been on Clavamox since Friday.
    I'm just waiting to see who sneezes next.  Maybe I'll be lucky
    and no one else will get it.
    
    Jan

    Jan, what is Clavamox?  Is it some sort of antibiotic like Amoxycillin?
    
    Thanks,
    Carl

	
	Clavamox has amoxy in it along with <mumble> clavunulate.
	It has always done a good job for our cats with colds,
	sinus infections, etc.  Until now we always used the
	liquid form, but we recently found out it also comes
	in pill form.  Personally, I like using pills -- it's
	either down or it's not, as opposed to the "how much
	went in?" problem.

	Ron

    Oh, I just love turning the cats pink (with amoxycillin) or
    white (with Clavamox).  Seems my vet always gives me the liquid.
    I swear next time I'm going to ask for pills, expecially for 
    Joey.  He acts like you're killing him as you squirt that stuff
    into the corners of his mouth (down his chest, onto his whiskers, etc.)
    I figure what I don't get in him, I get on him.  He'll lick it off
    eventually.  That's more in the cat.  Right?
    
    Jan

    I had to give Spike amoxy for an abscess.  He learned to COUGH right
    after I squirted the stuff - it went all over my newly-cleaned
    couch...why does it NEVER happen in the kitchen where all the surfaces
    are easily cleaned?
    Sarah

    Ah, this is why I always give them that kind of stuff in the 
    kitchen or bathroom. :^)
    
    Jan

    Mind if I whine a while?
    
    I'm frustrated.  My old apartment complex kept my entire deposit
    ($310.00 cleaning, $15.00 key, $150.00 pet) when I moved out.
    The manager said the apartment was spotless but that the carpet
    was saturated with cat pee.  
    
    Actually, it was probably saturated with cleaning solution trying
    to get rid of the cat pee.  I had done a shampoo job on it the 
    day before I gave them the key.
    
    Thanks loads, Onyx.  Let's try not to do that in the new place
    (actually, he's starting already) :^}
    
    Now yes, I realize I am responsible.  But, that carpet had a few
    other problems besides cat pee and would have had to be replaced
    anyway.  It had gotten very wet the 5-6 times the apartment plumbing
    backed up into my apartment when someone got a clog upstairs and
    it was coming apart around the front door and bathroom door/hall
    closet area and it was starting to show signs of coming apart by
    the sliding glass door.  Because of this I feel they're entitled
    to my pet deposit and nothing else.
    
    What really frosts me is that in the itemized bill they sent I've
    been charged $90.00 to clean a carpet they turned around and removed.
    There's an $845.00 charge for the carpet replacement.  Luckily they
    didn't ask me to cover the remaining $400.00.
    
    The Legal Aid Society/Housing Project says I can take them to small
    claims court.  He seemed to feel I have good reason.  However, I 
    would need documentation to support my claim and...guess what...I
    didn't think to take pictures of the place when I left.  I didn't
    think to document each time the plumber had to come to fix the 
    plumbing and bail out my apartment.
    
    I'm bummed.  I'm frustrated and, it appears, I'm kissing $475.00
    goodbye.  Bad timing.  I really could have used that money, even
    part of it.
    
    October seems to always bring a financial crises.  I hope this is
    the end of it.  So far this is better than the last 2 Octobers.
    Two years ago 10/25 I had to say goodbye to my Bailey cat.  I spent
    over $1000 trying to save her and would have gladly dropped any
    remaining funds I had into her care in an instant if I thought it
    would have helped.  Last year it was the car I had to put $1000
    into.  Geez, $475.00 is looking better all the time.
    
    Thanks for listening.  I really needed that FELINE shoulder today.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  Gee, I wonder if all those folks who moved out leaving behind
          furniture and quite a mess got their deposits back.  My luck,
          they did.

    Just had a talk with my current apartment manager (who used to 
    manage the old apartment I moved from).  She felt they were not
    justified in keeping my entire deposit.  She says that's what 
    the pet deposit is for.  She suggested I call the guy who manages
    that property, tell him what happened, drop her name and see if
    I can get some positive response.  She also said she'd be willing
    to do what she can to help me.  I asked if there are records on
    the apartment showing how many times it was flooded and she said
    there are.  Each time the plumber had to come out it was noted in
    the file set up for that apartment.
    
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I get some kind of good response
    from Brad.  I've met him once before and he seems kind of like a
    turkey to me but I'll reserve any further judgement till I hear
    what he has to say about this.
    
    Thanks for listening...
    
    Jan

    Just posted a note in the Services topic (28.61) about free spay
    and neuter in San Jose, CA.  I think this is a wonderful service
    to offer.  My whine is for...where were they a couple of months
    ago when I needed to spay/neuter 4 cats. <insert shoulder shrug
    here> :^}
    
    Jan (who's currently way past cat max)

    I think this is a wonderful service...and I hope and pray
    more Cities follow in their foot steps!!!  To me...this will
    really help the number of unwanted kittens born every year.
    There are many people who want to rescue strays...but do not
    have the money to support the medical work.
    
    Jan...I agree with the whine.  That's too bad it wasn't in place
    for you!
    
    Sandy

    
    
    	Not a FELINE whine but...
    
    	Did anyone see the news last night?  Someone dumped a 
    	3 week old puppy in a dumpster in Boston....AFTER cutting
    	off the poor girl's tail!  A passerby heard her crying and
    	brought her to a humane society.  They've been flooded with
    	calls of support.  What they really need is a dog that recently
    	gave birth that might take the puppy in for nursing.
    
    	The Boston Police are looking for the person that dumped her.
    
    	(if/when they find the SOB I hope they string 'em up by their
    		toenails.)
    
    	JJ
    

    A whine and a question....
    
    whine first... I HATE it when people make crude/insensitive
    jokes/comments about any animals, but the ones about cats really make
    me boil.
    
    Now the question: When someone makes a crude comment about cats in
    general, how do you respond?  
    
    I was giving an Internet demo a few weeks ago. One of the web pages I
    go to is the White house and then first family, then the picture of
    Socks (which, by the way,is the most popular page of the all the first
    family pages) and then the audio of Socks (which is also cute). While I
    was testing the pages before the demo, one of the customers made a
    comment about "he likes cats... when they're cooked and served with
    ginger". Now, I've heard this before and if it's someone I know I let
    them know in no uncertain terms how I feel about that type of comment.
    But this was a customer and I was trying to be diplomatic, (so my usual
    response/action couldn't be used) so just told him to be careful about
    what he's saying since I'm a cat lover and then tried to ignore him.
    But, I would like to hear other suggestions.
    
    ....kicking him down the hall crossed my mind.... again, not too good
    for customer relations.
    
    thanks!
    

    My usual response is "I hope for your sake reincarnation is a myth. 
    You may have just sealed your fate..."  Usually gets a laugh, AND 
    makes a point. 
    Sarah

    
    re. .324
    
    If I were in your shoes, I would say something to the effect that
    the person who made the comment may think rather differently about
    the whole animal situation after getting lost in wilderness for a
    a week or two; the person may start to appreciate the superb survival
    ability of our distant relatives, which humans are no match of.
    
    I wouldn't get emotional about it, I would just ask if he/she has
    recently succeeded in catching a mouse or two by hand. ;-);-)
    Like pointing out some obvious advantages that cats have over people.
    
    
    
    Eva
    
    

    I would reply with a smile on my face, if I could, that while we
    appreciate his/her attempt at humor, those kind of comments may be
    offensive to some people, and are better left unsaid; i.e. "WATCH IT,
    BUSTER!!!!"
    

    I agree with -1. 
      
    As for trying to say something like in -2, I think it is useless.
    People who say things like that, have mostly an IQ of two or less
    digits, useless to appell on they brains which they do not have. Beings
    who do not see other beings, and the living system of a planet as a
    whole, do not deserve to be dealed with too much. But as for they can
    make bad examples for other (e.g. children), if others hear it too, I
    simply say:
    
    'Please, do not say things like that. There might be people here
    who think different and who like cats, and they might be offended.'
    
    And if it is not a customer and I do not have to be diplomatic, I say
    also
    
    '... and some of them might be a bit rude if they are offended, for
    instance pulling your ears across your face...'
    
    
    Nat
    :)

    
    On our main national news this morning (UK) there was a story about
    over 100 cats going missing in Devon.
    
    They interviewed a couple of owners who's cats have disappeared which
    as you can imagine was very distressing.
    
    All of the cats are black or mainly black which is leading to
    speculation about the occult.
    
    Have any other UK noters got more info. on this.  I did not catch what
    time period we are talking, however one owners cat re-appeared after 3
    weeks.
    
    
    Kirsty

re .329

	I don't have information about Devon, but I do know that the Santa 
	Clara County Humane Society will not allow adoptions of black cats
	during Halloween week because of fear of abuse by cult members.  The
	brutality that human beings are capable of is truly stunning.

		Susan S.

    This is re: my prior whines .319 and .320
    This is the sequel:
    
    I thought the whole deposit thing had been dropped.  I hadn't heard
    back from Brad or from the management company since October.  On
    Thursday night (5-6 months later).  I received a letter from the 
    management company demanding I pay them $840 delinquent balance 
    within 10 days or be sent to collections.  The letter was dated
    3/16/95.  I received it on 3/23/95.  Oh great, I had 3 days left and 
    was about to leave town for 2 of them.  The 3rd was a Sunday.
    
    I was exceptionally angry because I didn't owe them $840.  That was
    the total cost of the cleaning and carpet replacement.  They'd already
    kept $475 of my money so the balance is $365.  If I owe them anything
    it's $365 not $840.
    
    I called and left a message at my current apartment manager's phone.
    I was pretty upset.  I must have sounded terrible.  She had been the
    manager of the other place I lived in and had been supportive in the
    past.  I never heard back from her.
    
    Today I called the management company and asked for Brad.  They
    wouldn't direct my call to him.  They asked me what it was about and
    sent me to someone named Fred.  I went round and round with him on 
    why I didn't feel I should have to pay the additional money.  Yes, 
    my cat had caused some damage but there was also damage I wasn't 
    responsible for.  I suggested we split the different.  They'd already
    taken $475 of my money couldn't they cover the additional $365 and 
    we'd call it even.  He just couldn't grasp that there was damaged that
    would have had to be fixed regardless of whether or not my cat caused
    damage.  I feel we're both responsible for it.
    
    Well, my other manager had been supportive in the past and had said to
    me that the carpet should have been replaced "while I lived there" so
    I suggested Fred call her for verification.  Was I frustrated to hear
    that she had not backed me up that she had said she didn't know
    anything about it and that she never managed the place.  (I found out
    later that he mistranslated that she hadn't managed it for almost a
    year to I never managed it.)
    
    I called her and spoke to her myself and asked if that means she just
    didn't want any part of it and she said she resented me dragging her
    into this and that I should have taken care of this months ago with
    Brad.  I told her I tried but that I could never get a response from
    them.   I told her that I would leave her out of it.  But, now I'm a
    bit worrie because she's the manager of the current apartment I live
    in and it is managed by the same management company.  I suppose they
    could retaliate.
    
    Anyway, I tried again to convince Fred that there was other damage 
    besides the cat that was caused by the plumbing in the building and by
    normal wear and tear on a carpet that was not new when I moved in.  He
    said he'd go check the maintenance records and get back to me.
    
    In the meantime, I'm emotionally fried here.  I've been in tears once.
    I've callled the Legal Aid Society whose only suggestion is to take
    them to Small Claims Court.  I've gone back to a copy of the notes I
    had given Brad on the timing of events surrounding the apartment move
    out and revised it into a letter for Fred.  I've written a demand
    letter which has to be sent so that I can proceed to small claims
    court.
    
    I'm tempted to just pay the $365 (which I don't have just lying around
    waiting to be spent) and forget the whole thing just because of the
    amount of stress and frustration I know this is going to cause on top
    of the work-related stress I'm already going through these days.  But, 
    it's the principal of the thing that's causing me to keep heading towards 
    the court resolution.
    
    Arrrgghhhhhhh!!!!!!!  I could just scream!!!!!
    
    Hmm, I wonder if I'll be living in my current apartment much longer 
    between the manager being annoyed with me and Zell wanting my money.
    I think retaliation is against the law.  That's one thing in my favor.
    
    Hmmm, one more thought.  If a $150 pet deposit does not come anywhere
    close to covering the cost of replacing a carpet or some such thing,
    why don't they charge a higher pet deposit instead of trying to gouge
    the tenants later.
    
    Wish I could say I felt better havin gotten that off my chest.
    
    Jan
    
    
    P.S.  Anyone know anything about what happens or what to do in small
          claims court.  The Legal Aid Society tells me the judge will
          take my word (since I didn't forsee the need for pictures) but
          won't he also take Zell's word.  It's a case of their word
          mine.  How on earth does someone decide that?

    I don't have a solution for you, and I'm no legal expert--but I thought
    the deposit was for any damages.  It doesn't sound too legal to me that
    they are charging you extra.  You should look at your lease for any
    stipulations.  And legally I believe it is against the law for the
    manager of the property to treat you any different than the other
    paying tennants. (sp?)  
    
    Anyway, you've been on my mind and prayers.  Good luck.
    
    
    Donna

    Ya know...some folks just don't get it!!  Sorry I need to whine..
    so please bare with me.   As most of you know I have been doing
    my rescue activities in my neighborhood for 6 years.   I have
    rescued well over 20 cats in that timeframe.   My last stray
    (so I thought) was rescued about 4 weeks ago after he got hit
    by a car. (Keno is recuperating very nicely and I am still looking 
    for a good home for him.)  I really started feeling that my rescue
    efforts...really did make a difference. (atleast in my neighborhood)
    
    Well....a few years ago we had some jerks move in the next street
    over from my house.   These a*&^%$ started with 3 cats and of
    course never got them fixed....I have no clue as to how many
    cats/kittens are over there now, but I do KNOW that they are
    no longer taking care of them.  Slowly but surely I'm starting
    to see these very young, very skinny, very under-nourished
    cats and kittens roaming the neighborhood.   I have started
    feeding one 5-6 month old female who obviously has had kittens
    (somewhere!!!) because she pops over for food twice a day
    and then disappears immediatly. (her nipples are huge too!!)
    
    You might say..."go talk to the people...but I know these people
    are very ignorant and my words will go on deaf ears".  
    I know if I don't deal with the issue...it will only get worse, but
    as of right now I cannot emotionally/financially deal with another 
    needy cat.   I'm all rescued-out and need a break; therefore I
    no longer free feed on my porch.  My heart breaks knowing they
    are out there...but my body/mind just can't deal with it right
    now.  It's so frustrating thinking you have made a difference
    in the stray population...to have some JERK move in and within
    two years there is probably has many strays as when I started
    out six years ago.  ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!  
    
    I wish we could neuter/spay humans as punishments for their
    ignorance!!!  I'm really starting to believe we need a law
    that you MUST spay/neuter your pets.....because all it takes
    his one JERK to move in next to you and the problem starts all
    over.
    
    Sandy
    
         

    
    Repeat as needed:
    
      "I can't save them all"
    
    len (who wishes we could, but knows the painful truth).
    

    
    Sandy,  What if these poeple where reported to humane society, 
            wouldn't they intervine and take the animales away from 
           them. They might even get a fine for this. 
    
    Shaw

    Shaw...I thought of that, but to be honest I have called the
    MSPCA in the past on a real abuse case (ie...dog living in his
    own poop...not being fed for five days...water frozen in winter)
    and I will admit the MSPCA did investigate immediately, but the
    end result was they felt it was ONLY a slight abuse case and
    told us they would monitor the people.   SO...what they consider
    abuse and what I consider abuse are totally different.
    
    As far as the cats......it's still legal for cats to have kittens,
    they can say they do feed them, or they can also say that the
    cats aren't even theirs and are just neighborhood strays.
    
    As you can see...I have no faith in some of the animal organizations
    that are suppose to help the animals.   But...if it gets real bad
    that might be my only option.
    
    Sandy     

    Well an update to my original whine a few notes back...I now
    have two Mom cats, who (so far)have brought me three of their kittens.
    The kittens seem to be about 5-6 weeks old; so obviously they
    were born outside.  (arrrgghhhh)   The Mom kitties just bring them
    to my porch..and drop them off!!!
    
    So far I have stolen the three kittens (hey they looked like
    strays to me) and the only reason why I'm leaving the Mom's
    outside is because I do believe there are more kittens to come.
    Once I feel comfortable I have all the kittens...I'm stealing the
    Mom's too!!!  Then...I'm calling the MSPCA and have them deal
    with the issue directly!   I just CANNOT allow my neighborhood
    to get out of control with stray cats again!!!
    
    Stay tune to my adoption note that I will soon be posting.  Both
    Mom cats are very young (maybe 6 months old).  One of them is
    a short hair calico with absolutely beautiful bright orange and
    black spots on a beautiful white coat.  The other one is a beautiful
    tri-color dilute long hair tortie with a very sweet dispostion.  So
    far we have one white with gray female kitten, one gray with some
    white male kitty, and the other one is a tri-colored beautiful
    tortie.
    
    Sandy

    You did the right thing by "stealing" (I call it rescuing) the
    kittens.  Your neighbors are obviously uncaring, thoughtless,
    **JERKS** who I'm probably aren't treating their children much 
    better.
    
    I would only call the MSPCA after taking the cats so that there's
    no risk of them euthanizing them.  Getting the MSPCA involved will
    help to legally get them to stop having animals if they won't take
    care of them properly.  And since the MSPCA has these neighbors on
    record as being investigated before (weren't they abusing a dog?)
    hopefully, they will keep checking up on them and use legal action
    if necessary to stop them from neglecting animals.
    
    Pam
    
    

    That's right Pam...these wonderful neighbors have been on
    record with the MSPCA for many years for abusing animals...but
    since that time they have had atleast 5 other dog (who all
    mysteriously disappear) and now many many cats.  Obviously the
    MSCPA has not followed up with them for a LONG time!!  Hence...
    I have lost faith in the organization.
    
    Let's put it this way...the jerks have been seem recently
    sniffing paint cans...and also burying needles in their backyard...
    this is what I'm dealing with!!!  Maybe once the mom/kittens
    are taken care of...I'l also call the police and Board of Health.
    
    Personally...I'd like to burn down their house...but my only
    fear is there are animals living in it!!  Don't worry...I really
    won't burn down the house...BUT the thought was there!!
    
    Sandy (who hates humans today!!)

Sandy,

Do these neighbors have kids too?  This is a really ugly mess, and you have
my sympathy.  If they have kids, you can go to the Child and Family Services 
(whatever it's called in your area) and turn them in for the paint and 
needles.  It can be done without them ever knowing who turned them in.

I don't know how helpful your police department is, but I'd tread lightly 
with that one; you don't know how vengeful these neighbors could get.  How
do other people in your neighborhood feel?  If you could give the cops an 
anonymous tip about the paint and needles, would your neighbors assume it 
was you who turned them in.  I've heard about mediators who help resolve 
neighborhood disputes; is there anything like that where you live?

Be careful Sandy.

			SQ

    I know I have to be VERY careful!!   The good news is that these
    folks aren't true neighbors because they live on the next street
    over from mine.  There property does NOT even abut ours and as
    of today they don't even know who we are.  I do have to be careful
    because I have many cats and wouldn't want them to retaliate
    against them.
    
    As far as kids...I do know about two years ago DSS took away
    their son, but I'm not sure if he is living back with them now.
    I do know I hear kids over there all the time, but I'm not
    sure if they live there or only visit.   
    
    They occasionally have huge bon-fires and parties and we have
    called the police a few times.   When we do call the police, they
    normally say that they have already received 5 phone calls, so
    I think the rest of the neighborhood is getting sick of them too!!!
    I do know a few cops personally...so maybe I can handle it that
    way.  One of my other neighbors who's property does abut theirs
    is thinking of calling the Board of health on them...so maybe if
    we get many Organizations involved...something might happen.
    
    These people truly make me sick......and I feel so bad for any
    animal or child that is living with them.   I'm really starting
    to believe that many of my kitty rescue attempts in my neighborhood
    (over 25 of them) in the last 6 years...was probably their unwanted
    pets or litters.
                    
    Sandy
     

    	**Cross posted from another conference**
    
    
    
    
    			{FUME}
    
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from the Boston Globe, 9/20/95, p. 14:

Drilling Backed in Wildlife Area
--------------------------------

Washington--Searching for money to cut the deficit, a House panel voted 
yesterday to free an Arctic wildlife refuge in Alaska for oil drilling and 
proposed the sale of nearly two dozen federal dams and power-generating 
facilities.  The House Natural Resources Committee agreed to end a ban on 
drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in northern Alaska.  A key 
amendment that would have removed the refuge from the revenue scramble was 
defeated 27-13, with all but one Republican opposing it.  The Arctic refuge 
[is] a flashpoint for environmentalists, with oil companies seeking to 
develop its large petroleum reserves.  Environmentalists argue that 
development would destroy a natural treasure and home to rare wildlife, 
including caribou, migrating snow geese, and polar bears.  (AP)
    

    
    
    	I'm not sure if I posted my original note about this
    	situation in here or not but......
    
    	I'm feeling a *little* bit better about the 'campus
    	kitties' situation at NHC Manchester.  I was leaving
    	school last night and struck up a conversation with
    	one of the cleaning ladies, who was standing there
    	holding a can of cat food while 5 of the campus strays
    	chowed down.  She's been there 4 years and has taken 
    	care of as many of the cats as she can.  She's caught
    	some of the pregnant moms before they had kittens (or
    	very shortly thereafter) and found homes for them.  She
    	feeds them twice a day and lets some of the more approachable
    	ones into some of the buildings at night when she's cleaning.
    	They don't run from her because they know her voice but a
    	couple took off when I approached.  She's adopted two of the
    	adults herself and has been able to catch three others (they
    	trust her) and adopt them out.  So while I don't know how
    	much else I can do in the last month I'll be there, I'm glad
    	to know that there's someone else that's looking out for these
    	babies.  Unfortunately, two of the females are very pregnant
    	right now (I was one of them Wednesday and she told me about
    	the other one)
    
    	JJ
    

    Re: .343
    
    Maybe you could put her in touch with a low cost spay and
    neuter place?
    

    
    
    	I've thought about that.  I told her that I had hoped to
    	try and catch them and neuter them but I'm not there enough
    	to spend enough time to get them to trust me.  Anyone have
    	an FOA thing they can send me?
    
    	JJ
    

    Okay, since I've already overrun the "Flea" topic with ant stories 
    I suppose it's time to move the discussion somewhere else.  This
    is sort of what the ants do to me...move just when I get them 
    figured out. :^)
    
    SO...here's my whine...
    
    <in my best Fran "The Nanny" Drescher voice>  I've got ants!  
    Tiny little thief ants. They're driving me crazy.  (I know--short 
    drive.)  Weird thing is...they're supposed to be thief ants...so, 
    how come I never see them take anything?
    
    They've got a little ant community set up with entrances that change
    on an hourly basis.  They use my brita water pitcher for a swimming 
    pool (I don't like my water refrigerated so it sits on the counter).
    Unfortunately, they don't know how to swim very well and end up 
    drowing in their pool.  They think cereal is the best stuff around
    and they'll totally ignore a wide-open bag of dry cat food kept in 
    the same general vicinity as the cereal.  They really like banana nut 
    flavored mini-rice cakes though.  And, I recently left an english 
    muffin in it's bag on the counter for a short time only to discover 
    that this is a favorite food too though they passed on the Imperial 
    lo-cal margarine sitting right next to it.  So, I guess that means that 
    ants don't do diets. :^)
    
    Every now and then I send them for a ride down the water slide (kitchen
    sink).  I'm sure they love that.  And, when I'm feeling particularly
    antsy (pun-intended) I give them a spin in the jacuzzi (dish washer).  
    It's just one of the tiny little ways one copes with these things. :^)
    
    Jan (finding new and different ways to torture ants)

    
    
    	Sigh...... try to do a good deed and get passed around on
    	the phone till finally the person you talk to only has about
    	30 seconds time....
    
    	On my way in this morning I saw a hawk sitting in the median 
    	next to the guardrail.  He was alive, but appeared to have an
    	injured wing or something, as his left wing was extended from
    	his body. 
    
    	So I call the Humane Society who tells me to call the Animal
    	Control Officer at the PD.  I call, am told that the ACO is 
    	out at the moment and asks what the problem is.  I tell her,
    	then am told 'I'm going to forward this on to someone else'. 
    	So I get this someone else, have no idea who she is, and I
    	tell her where the hawk is.  She hurriedly says they'll call
    	the state police as they handle these things.  Click.
    
    	I'd like to think that something will actually be done, but
    	I'm not holding out much hope.   =(
    

    I wonder if this is the same hawk weve been seeing around ZKO. Last
    month it was purched on a low branch in front of the ZKO lobby, just a
    few feet above everyone's head. I also saw it yesterday at the little
    pond by where TTB was.
    
    Deb

    Re: .347
    
    In my area there is a Wildlife Rescue organization -- I would try
    calling a local volunteer animal organization and see if they know of
    any group like that.                           
    

    I'd recommend calling NH Fish & Game @ 603-271-2461 (Concord, NH).
    They were quite helpful when we had an injured Canada Goose here
    at NQO.  I worked with Steve Wheeler since he dealt w/waterfowl.
    There may be a person who deals specifically with birds of prey
    there as well.
    
    If the hawk can be caught, they can either find a wildlife
    rehabilitator or you could call Rainne Carson in Milford (I don't have
    her number handy but she is in the phone book).  Rainne does wild life
    rehabilitating as well.
    
    Good luck!  Keep us posted...
    
    Sharon

    
    
    	Thanks folks.
    
    	Unfortunately, I didn't see these notes till today.  When I
    	checked under "wildlife" and "animals" in the yellow pages
    	the only thing I really came up with was the animal shelter.
    
    	I'm hoping the state police took care of it.
    
    	JJ
    

    There's also Tufts in Grafton and the Audobon society.  Maybe
    they could refer a bird rehabilitator or get one.  Angell too
    might help out.

EG when people call us, we direct them to another local vet who has a certified
wildlife rehabilitator on staff.

							Trace

    
    
    	I really really should stop watching the news.  Last week it
    	was the abandoned puppies and momma dog in Boston (they caught
    	the jerk).
    
    	Last night, some jerk was arrested for making two pitbulls
    	fight in an alley in Acton.  I was literally SCREAMING obscenities
    	at the TV. One of the vets that was treating the dogs was so
    	overcome with emotion that he broke down in tears and had to walk
    	off camera.  Their faces were SO mangled it was heartbreaking.
    
    	I just CANNOT fathom people being that cruel.  All animals want
    	is someone to love them and they give it back tenfold.  They
    	trust us totally and some people just destroy that.....  they
    	have a special place in hell for these last two guys.......
    
    	sigh.......
    
    	JJ
    

    Abandoned puppies and momma dog?  Are they all right?
    When did the news say about the outlook for the pitbulls?
    
    When gets me even angrier is when the cretins get a slap on the
    wrist, like 5 days in jail or something.  Five to ten years would
    be it, if I were the judge.  No, make that twenty-five to fifty years.
    

    re puppies and momma dog, I believe they're all right and all the puppies 
    have been adopted.  (They were left in a *dumpster* and discovered when 
    a puppy got free and roamed into the street.)
    
    Don't know about the pit bulls (I had to turn the TV off when that item
    came on, couldn't stand to hear it).
    
    Leslie

    To me the punishment of 5-10 years in jail is still not strong
    enough...these people really make me sick...and I know what
    I would like to do with them. (which is also illigal)
    
    Arrgghhh...sick sick peoplel.
    
    Sandy 
    

    
    
    	Karen,
    
    	As Leslie said, all the puppies have been adopted and it looks
    	like there's a home lined up for the momma dog too, so that story
    	has a happy ending.
    
    	As for the pitbulls....... they didn't really say much about the
    	future or outlook for the dogs.  I'm hoping they'll do an update
    	story like they did on the puppies.
    
    	JJ
    

    JJ,
    
    You may not want to know.  In Colorado, pitbulls are considered
    unadoptable animals and are put down after all legal stuff is exhausted
    about the owners or keepers.  
    
    meg

    
    
    	Probably true Meg.  =(  I remember in my public speaking
    	class, one of the students did her final report on pitbulls
    	and how they're not ALL mean and nasty, they're just trained
    	to be that way by inconsiderate owners.  She proved her point
    	by bringing in the *sweetest* dog.  100% pitbull, very timid,
    	she had been abused by a previous owner.  She just walked up
    	and down the aisles of desks, letting people pet her.......
    

    I just heard on the news last night that someone in the Santa Rosa,
    California area is killing dogs.  One was found skinned in someone's
    yard, another was shot in its own back yard and the other was hung
    from a tree with a sweatshirt.  The person who has done these things is
    an abomination and I wish the law allowed the same fate to be visited
    on him or her.  I think this person should suffer the same way he/she
    made these animals suffer.
    
    Warnings have gone out to everyone in the area to keep a close eye on
    their dogs.  The person whose dog was shot in its yard did receive a
    threat to do harm to the dog by someone who lived in the apartment
    complex nearby.  They said the dog was barking too much.
    
    Jan

    The local Washington DC Humane society sends out newsletter about their
    rescues. I almost always have trouble finishing it and certainly always
    end up snuffling.  Of course, these all have happy endings. But it just
    UNBELIEVABLE what some humans are capable of.
    
    One of the saddest parts is they usually talk about how, even with the
    wretched treament, the animal is still looking for love and attention
    and is very friendly.
    
    When I have one of my boys sitting in my lap, purring loud enough to
    wake the neighbors, just wanting lots of attention, my heart just
    melts. How could anyone hurt some wonderful creature? I'm almost
    certain I could/would do physical harm to anybody who would do harm to my
    familiy - including any furface. And I would be devestated if I found
    any animal like those dogs.
    
    I read somewhere, maybe in here, that our humanity is judged by how we
    treat others around us, especially the animals. 
    
    all I can say is a loud "THANKS" for this file and all the wonderful
    stories of how a lot of you have gone the extra mile to help
    unfortunate animals. It's help balance (and hopefully overbalance) all
    the awful things you hear elsewhere.
    
    janetb.
    gonna go home and hug the stuffin' out of the boys!

    
    
    
    	sigh...........  {sniff}     =(
    

    
    
    	My whine for the day is stories like what's recently been
    	posted in note #302.  I just don't get it..............
    

    Sheesh!  I'm having a hard morning.
    
    This morning I discovered the stress limits of a Glad kitchen garbage
    bag as I carried it out to the dumpster.  I usually only fill it with
    litter from 3.5 litterboxes.  For some reason last night I dumped in
    4.5 litterboxes worth. 
    
    So, I carried it out to the dumpster.  When I got there the lid was 
    down so I lifed it with one hand and attempted to lift the bag of
    litter up over the edge and into the dumpster with the other hand.
    Well, the bag had apparently stretched to it's limit on the trip to
    the dumpster location and when I attempted to hoist it over the
    dumpster rim the plastic began to tear.  I realized what was happening
    as I felt a bunch of litter hit my head (okay, I'm shorter than the
    dumpster walls).  It took a split second to realize it and I jumped
    out of the way and dropped the bag.  It took quite a bit of maneuvering
    to get the bag arranged so that I could lift the lid and shove it up
    and over the edge without wearing any more of it. 
    
    Then on the way to work as I was attempting to get off the freeway on 
    one of those combination on ramp/off ramps some fool came racing up on 
    my right.  He pulled up right along side of me thus preventing me from 
    getting over.  I believe it was his intention to pass me and get over 
    into the lane I currently occupied.  It wasn't working due to other cars 
    in our vicinity.  So, I was quickly running out of lane to get into when 
    we finally got adjusted and switched places.  You know you're cat obsessed
    when the only thing you can think of to yell at such and idjit is...
    
    FURBALL!
    
    (I've left off the nice F word descriptive that went before that since 
     I'd have to turn around and moderate myself for unacceptable language
     in a notesfile.)
    
    Jan (having a whine kind of day)

    Jan, Glad garbage bags hold 4.0 litterboxes of litter max.  The
    Voice of Experience speaks :-)
                                   

    Rats!  Wish I'd have known that limit just a wee bit sooner.
    
    Jan

If they'd just had one less wee.... :-)


Just maybe it would have been that teeny bit lighter.. 





Re: calling em furballs... 

thanks I've been trying to come up with a polite
insult Ican put real meaning into for quite a while
that one's purr-fect...  half the other phrases I
use are kitty oriented (down to baby's being cat 
substitutes) I'm amazed Ididn't think of that one..