Conference misery::feline

    With a formerly feral cat, 4-5 months is still early.  It took
    almost a year for one of my cats to become acclimated.  I would
    try to spend time and real attention not only with both cats
    separately, but with the two cats together.  I tend to sit on the
    floor in between two cats who aren't getting along, and pat/stroke
    and talk to both of them at once.  This calms them down and gets them
    used to each other's presence in a calm situation.  If one becomes
    aggressive in this situation, I shower attention on the victim, thus
    not "rewarding" the aggressor with attention.  When I introduced Holly,
    who is very territorial, I stumbled across the fact that swiftly
    amd calmly putting her in Coventry (aka the back bedroom) immediately
    after she attacked Sweetie and leaving her there for 5-10 minutes
    while I was in teh other room with Sweetie
    was very effective.  Initially I had to do it twice or for 10 minutes
    instead of 5, etc.  It sounds to me like Spunky currently thinks he
    has manipulated you into staying away from your other kitty.  You
    need to change his mind about who is running things, the humans or the
    cats :-)
    

    If the new cat is aggressive towards your other cat I do not recommend
    putting him on a harness and bringing them face to face unless you're 
    prepared for the possibility of getting shredded in the process.  I 
    think you could find yourself with a wild cat on the end of the leash 
    that may decided to transfer all his aggression your direction since he 
    can't get to the other cat.  I've been in the situation where Mac
    transferred his aggression to me when he couldn't get to the cat he
    wanted and I don't recommend it.  I spent 4 hours in the emergency room
    afterwards getting all my scratches and bite wounds cleaned with
    betadine solution.  Not fun.
    
    When I moved Mac into my house he and Onyx didn't get along at all. 
    Mac was very aggressive and Onyx was extremely territorial.  Actually,
    now that I think about it, Mac didn't get along with any other cats.
    Luckily, my sister had loaned me her Tokyo cage to house Mac in while 
    he became familiar with me and my cats.  
    
    I set the cage up in the living room and put Mac inside.  The cage was 
    up against a wall on one side and had stuff situated on the other 2
    sides so Mac could back into the cage and get away from any resident 
    cats who might be bugging him from the outside of the cage.
    
    You should have heard some of the terrifying noises that came from that
    cage area as Mac and Onyx discovered each other day after day.  I kept 
    the water bottle handle and squirted them both each time they faced
    off.  Once a day I would lock Onyx and the rest of the cats in my 
    bedroom and let Mac out in the rest of the apartment so he could get
    a little exercise.  This also helped him get used to smelling the other
    cats.  Then I'd put him back in the cage and let the others back into
    the main apartment area and they'd get a chance to smell Mac's scent
    on the furniture, etc.
     
    It took a couple of months of having Mac caged but I was eventually 
    able to have him and Onyx loose in the apartment without one of them
    trying to kill the other.
    
    If you have access to a cage you may want to give this a try.  Put the
    new kitty in the cage and give your other cat the run of the house
    again.  They'll be able to see and smell each other without doing
    serious damage.
    
    One note.  Mac and Onyx still do fight but most of the time it is play
    fighting.  However, Mac does sometimes have trouble telling the
    difference between play and fight and things sometimes escalate to
    where I have to intervene.  It doesn't take much to get Mac to back off
    these days though.  Setting the water bottle down between them or me
    walking between them while they're posturing will usually do the trick.
    Sigh.  And, it only took 4 years to get to this point.
    
    Jan

> My Vet said have
> him declawed but I don't want to do that until I absolutely have to. 

	There are alternatives to declawing.... for starters, keep his claws
	trimmed so they aren't razor sharp.  Second, I believe some vets
	also can "cap", if I'm using the right terminology, the claws.  Ie.
	it's like putting a glove over each individual claw.  I believe it's
	put on with some kind of epoxy/adhesive like fake long nails for
	humans.  I have no idea on the cost, and obviously it's a recurring
	cost because the claws will continue to grow and the caps will fall off.

	BTW, is the one that's declawed, declawed front and back paws?
	If only the front, I've seen several cats who also have had only
	the front paws declawed and they appear to learn to use their
	back paws when fighting instead of trying to defend with clawless
	front paws.

    
    It took a good year for my older cats to befriend a new kitten,
    it took another year for them to sleep together. Give it some time. 
    I second the claw clipping, I do that on a regular basis when they 
    stay indoors during the winter as they love to knead their claws
    into human body parts when they are happy. I think cats need to 
    settle their own pecking order problems themselves, but we can
    level the playing field a little with the claw trims.
    
    Eva  

    I was so pleased to get your mail thanks for your input.  Karen, you
    had a good point, actually my husband has sat between them and they
    seem to calm down and shut up for a while.  The longest was twenty
    minutes a few weeks ago.  Will try that again thanks and your right, 
    Spunky does manipulate me. When I put my shoe boots on in the morning
    I tie them and he unties them, he does not want me to go to work.  
    I look at him and just MELT !  When we first noticed him outside he 
    was about six months old that was over a year ago so we assume he 
    is about two now and still very playful.  
    
    Thanks Jan, I never thought about him maybe turning on me if I used
    a harness.  I have enough scars now from seven months of trying to 
    capture him.   The only cage I have is the huge dog training cage. 
    Ebbie would not go near him in the cage before, if I carry her upstairs
    she immediately starts to growl before she even sees him.   You say 4
    years for Mac and Onyx don't know if I will get through it.
    
    Jeff, our Vet also suggested tranquilizers for Spunky for a while.  
    Ebony only has front paws declawed.  My Vet does not believe in doing
    all four nor do we.  She did get a few rounds in as there was some
    white hair on the floor but MORE BLACK than white.  Now she has turned
    very timid and seems afraid to fight.  
    
    Eva, after Spunky had his surgery in November, his claws were so
    short they looked declawed.  I have tried to trim them several 
    times but he won't hold still for me yet. I'll have to get the Vet
    to trim them.  
    
    Thanks again for all your mail, I will keep you posted.  Poor little
    Ebbie has her 5TH. Birthday tomorrow.  I will cook her a chicken 
    breast her favorite.  
    
    Margaret
    

    If it is really bad, you could speak to your vet about Ovaban (basicly,
    both cats are given a dosage of female hormones and it calms them
    right down, stopping the agressive behavior. They are then weaned off from
    them, and usually, buy they time that they are off from them, they have
    forgotten why they disliked each other in the first place.
    
    Deb

    re .6
    
    As far as declawed fron-only cats being defenseless, I used to work in
    a grooming parlor.  The largest scar I have came from bathing a
    declawed front foot cat, who had gotten into motor oil.  Now I don't
    believe in declawing, but trimming claws works pretty well with my
    three.
    
    meg

    Just wanted to let you know that Ovaban has the potential to cause long
    term health damage so it's important to not leave them on it too long. 
    There are three problems linked to Ovaban but I can't remember them
    all (have to go hunt down that old note about Onyx).  I believe
    diabetes is one of them.
    
    There is a product called Buspar that my vet uses to treat cats that
    are spraying.  Basically, it's an attitude adjustment for the cat.  It
    supposedly makes them happy.  Maybe this would calm them down long
    enough for your two cats to make a little progress getting along.
    
    Jan

    
    We use a human nail clipper to do the cat claws. I have someone
    hold the cat in a cuddle position so the cat can't move and I do 
    one paw at a time. I squeeze the paw pad to get the claws out.
    I hold the clipper vertically (for humans, I hold the clipper
    horizontally) such that the claw slips in between the blades.
    I usually take off about 1/4 inch but not including any pink parts
    (that's flesh!). THe first couple of times, the cat won't like it,
    but will get used to it eventually. One thing that helps me is to
    stay very calm and very matter-of-fact myself, get organized and
    do it quick (before the cat realizes what is going down ;-)).
    
    Eva

    Thanks I will speak to our Vet this week about Ovaban and Buspar.  
    I will also try and sit on the floor between them tonight.  The problem 
    is I will need to put the dogs out.  One dog has bonded with Miss Ebony 
    and the other (dogs ->both female littermates) has bonded with Spunky. 
    If the cats look like they are going to fight both dogs get up and 
    go over to protect THEIR BOND-IE.  This has to be more work than 
    having children.   "-^O"  
    

    Just about like having kids nd pets in the same home.  
    
    If small kids cry in my house, Sonja (AKA broccili brained samoyed)
    howls with them.  When the cats mix it up, the dog is trying for
    getting in the middle.  when the kids fight, sometimes the matriarch
    cat gets into the picture to protect the smallest, even though she
    usually runs when Atlehi is coming her way.  
    
    meg

    I wouldn't worry too much about the hair -- my vet told me it is
    very easy for cats to lose tufts of hair in fights or tussles(sp?);
    apparently their hair is "designed" to come out easily as opposed to
    the other cat getting a good grip on them with it.  I occasionally
    come home to suspicious tufts of hair on the carpet :-)  and I'm
    virtually certain the cats don't fight seriously any more.
    

> We use a human nail clipper to do the cat claws.

	For mine I use a dog nail clipper which works quite well.

> ... but will get used to it eventually.

	In fact sometimes I can do my oldest two when I see them laying
	down with their paws out front.  I don't even have to hold them.
	My third oldest I still have to lay her on her back, ....

	My youngest is getting to used to it, but I haven't really
	worried too much about trimming her claws.  Since she's arrived
	I have yet to see her raise a paw (or even hiss), even when
	she first came and everyone was hissing at her, and she only
	scratches the scratching posts.

    I use a regular cat clipper for all my cats.  I used to use them human
    clippers but they seemed to crush the nail somewhat in order to clip
    it.  Most of my cats are easy to clip.  They sit in the correct
    position (back against my front) and allow me to do their nails.  Some
    do squirm.  However, clipping Mac's claws (the one who needs it most) 
    is a major endeavor.  I can usually get 4 nails done before he decidesd
    to have a hissy (and I do mean hissy).  This usually leads to him being
    closed in the bathroom with just me and me getting a hold on one foot
    long enough to do 1 or 2 nails before he shrieks at me and pulls away.
    This process used to take anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes.  I've gotten
    it down to about 20 minutes after 4 years or working with him.  Then
    there was the one day I must have caught him totally by surprise and
    clipped all 4 feet in 5-10 minutes.  I'll never happen again.
    
    Hang in there with the hierarchy adjustments.  It does get better.  Mac
    and Onyx are really good buddies now and even groom each other
    occasionally.  It's just that their play usually escalates into
    something more.  Onyx loves to play and Mac just doesn't understand the
    difference between play-fight and real fight.  The only other time I
    have trouble with them is when there's a cat outside the window.  Mac
    gets over stimulated very quickly thinking he needs to protect the
    house from this intruder and he tends to turn and take it out on
    whatever cat is closest to him since he can't get to the outsider.
    
    Jan
    

    Tigger is a difficult cat when it comes to nail clipping.  We have
    found there are two ways you can cut his claws.
    
    Way 1:
      
    We take three people, wrap Tigger in a towel (please don't fall down in 
    hysterical laughter) place him on the first persons shoulder, second person
    puts on thick gloves and allows Tigger to attack their hands while the
    third person cuts his nails, very quickly.
    
    Way 2:
    
    Take him to the vet and have Tigger anesthesized and get the vet to cut 
    his nails cut.  
     
    
    The things I do for that rotten cat.
    
    Rosemary and the gang of 6.
    

    
    >The things I do for that rotten cat.
    
    Shame, Rosemary, no cat deserves such an epithet.
    
    len.
    

    I have a couple that are a bit more difficult than the others, but I've
    found that if I clip nails when they are napping, or at leaset drowsy,
    even if they wake up, they are usually a lot more mellow and will put
    up with it.
    
    Deb

    
    >found that if I clip nails when they are napping, or at leaset drowsy,
    
    That's exactly what I did with my human babies - I would go in there
    at night with a flash light and a nail clipper! I will hold down a
    cat to get the claws, but holding down a baby is a bit too dramatic!
    
    Eva

    
    I'm sure Rosemary meant "rotten" in a loving, indulgent way, just as I 
    call my three "the little buttheads".
    
    8^)
    

    Catching him while he's sleeping doesn't work with Mac.  He's awake the
    instant I cut the first claw.  
    
    Jan (who's probably called Mac worse things than rotten but only in the
         most loving and indulgent way :^)

     Oh my!  With my Mitties, the only way to do any of that stuff, vet
    visits, clipping, whatever, was to have some meat ready. Ham, bologna,
    cooked chicken, didn't matter. While she was gulping that down, one
    could accomplish an exam or toe clipping without so much as a growl.
    Without the meat..FORGET it!
    Try that!

    I can relate to that last note.  My Maine Coon hates, and I mean HATES,
    anyone to get near his back end.  And, naturally, that's the part that
    oftentimes needs the most grooming, especially when he is having a
    little trouble in the litter box.
    
    If I try to brush him or wash him he growls and hisses and flattens his
    ears and looks ferocious.  He usually just runs away from me and
    doesn't attack. With the size of his paws and claws, I'm grateful. 
    
    BUT - I have these cat treats that I got from Trader Joe's that he
    adores so the other day, knowing that I had to clean some of the
    'cling-ons' from his pantaloons, I gave him a couple of treats and
    started to brush him while he was eating.  Not a growl or a hiss.  As
    soon as he was finished, however, he realized what was going on and
    started his routine.  So - it's all an act!  
    
    Gita