Conference misery::feline

    More news from the front...
    
    Last night new neighbors moved in to the right of my apartment.
    The have 2 mondo dogs.  These guys are huge with huge barks to
    go with them.  I think the outdoor cats are almost afraid to hang
    around now.  Joey and Ashlar used to love to sit up on the storage
    shed that divides our patio.  They won't be hanging out there much
    now.
    
    The neighbors say the dogs like to play with cats.  Yeah, right, the
    cats are toys for these guys. :^}  Anyway, I'm beginning to believe
    that the outdoor cats may be coming indoors very soon so that I have
    better access to them for vet visits, etc. and so that they don't 
    have to freak out over the dogs.  Oh boy, am I ever looking forward
    to giving them all their first bath...NOT!!!!  They're not coming in
    my house with all those fleas.  I can't wait to see how Ashlar looks
    when he's back to being all white instead of dingy whitish-gray.
    
    Oh, for those of you keeping up with this...Torbie is letting me pet 
    her on a regular basis now though she seems to prefer that it happens
    while she's eating.  I did make the mistake of attempting to pick
    her up a few days ago and I had to take 3 steps back and start again.
    I'm hoping to get to a point where I can put her in a carrier and get
    her to the vet for the FELV/FIV tests soon.
    
    Jan

    I'm pleased to report that I finally got Torbie to trust me enough
    to pick her up.  So, on Friday night I hustled her into the house
    and tucked her in with food, water and litter in the bathroom.  She
    seemed pretty content in there.  She purred up a storm.  The main 
    reason I grabbed her was because I noticed she had started favoring
    her right eye.  So, I finally get her to trust me and what do I do,
    rush her off to the vets' office.  
    
    I managed to catch Dolly Saturday morning at breakfast and took her
    in for her checkup.  Torbie tagged along.  Dolly was declared healthy,
    ear mite free, and unspayed (bummer, I coulda sworn she was already
    spayed).  She was given her 3-in-1 and rabies vaccines.  Dr. Shanker
    estimates her age at between 3 and 5 years.  He thought Dolly was a
    very sweet cat.  She purred for him.
    
    Torbie was amazingly calm while at the vets.  She purred the entire
    time he was examining her.  He had to attempt to listen to her heart
    through all that purring.  He couldn't get her to stop completely.
    She was tested for FELV and FIV (I get the results today).  She was
    given the 3-in-1 vaccine but the rabies vaccine will wait until test
    results are in.  We are treating her eye problem and ear mites.  She
    appears to have been scratched on her cornea.  She gets antibiotic
    ointment (Micatin) in her eye 3 times per day (right, if I can catch 
    her 3 times in the day...I've been averaging twice a day but he said 
    that would be okay).  She also gets Mitaclear in her ears twice per 
    week for a month and Panalog to ease the Mitaclear irritation every day.
    
    Torbie just loves all this extra attention...NOT!  She's decided she
    likes me better from a distance.  I can still catch her and take her
    in for her treatments but I've noticed she doesn't want to be held as
    much lately.  She's still climbing the screen to get my attention 
    though so that's a good sign.
    
    While at the vets I splurged and both 4 flea collars.  The outdoor
    cats are covered in them.  I'm going to have to break down and do
    cat baths for all of them soon and get those flea collars on them.
    
    So, the rescue effort continues.  All I have left to do is get them
    all spayed and neutered (2 spays, 2 neuters) and get them all the
    FELV vaccinations; then find them homes.  I need homes by 9/12 or
    I'm in deep sneakers and will have 8 cats in the new apartment.
    
    Oh, my cat medication routines are getting a bit outrageous too.
    
    	Onyx gets Ovaban every day
    
    	Amelia gets Gentocin in her ears periodically for her chronic 
    	   ear problem; and Derma(somethingorother) for her dry skin
    
    	Joey gets stuff put on his ears every day in case he has ringworm
    	   (5 day results are negative, still waiting for 14 day)
    
    	Torbie gets Mitaclear twice per week in her ears; Panalog every
    	   day in her ears and Micatin 3 times per day in her right eye
    
    	
    Jan (who's feeling slightly overwhelmed)

    Great job on all the rescues...overwhelmed???  I know the feeling,
    but somehow...someone gives you the strength to deal with it!!!
    There are definitely days when I feel if I had ONE more cat it
    would put me over the edge!!!
    
    Best of luck finding them homes.....and keep us posted
    
    Sandy

    Just got the FELV/FIV test results on Torbie (drum roll please)
    
    
    She's NEGATIVE!!!!!!!! 
    
    Forgot to mention that the vet estimates her age as "young", she's
    under a year old.  I'm not exactly sure but he kept saying she was
    really young so I'm assuming that would put her in the 6 mo. to 8 mo.
    range.  I've been wondering why she seemed so small.  I could've 
    sworn I've been seeing her (at her current size) for several months
    though.
    
    Re: .3
    
    Thanks for empathizing with me.  Everyone I know thinks I'm nuts
    to keep getting myself into these extra cat situations.  My most
    recent relationship is now a thing of the past and part of the 
    reason was because of the number of cats I had with the potential
    of taking in 4+ more.  He couldn't deal with it and I can't be with
    someone who can't understand the kind of relationship I have with 
    cats.
    
    Most people I know keep reminding me that I can't save them all.  I
    know that and it just kills me that I can't.  But, I can save my 
    fair share of them and I will keep doing it whenever necessary.
    
    Jan

    
    
    Great News!  And it is a great feeling, too!
    
    As for those who keep sayign you can't save them all. There is an old
    Greek saying that translates to "bean by bean we fill the sack". What
    it means is that no matter how small the contibution, it is important
    enough to count.
    
    keep up the good work!
    
    Deb

    Well, I called the Animal Birth Control people for assistance on
    getting 2 males and 2 females spayed/neutered.  Money was planned
    for that but the some incidental expenses cut into that somewhat 
    (ie. Joey's ringworm culture/medicine, Dolly blowing her reduced 
    exam rate, Dolly's tapeworm treatment, unexpected needle disposal 
    fees, etc.).  So, I'm left with a small amount of money to do a 
    big job.
    
    Anyway, ABC is sending 4 spay/neuter certificates.  I have to cover
    $50 of the cost.  But, they gave me the address of a group (PAWS) that
    will possibly reimburse me for the $50.  If they do this then I can 
    turn around and apply that $50 to the FELV vaccines.
    
    They also gave me an 800 number for the traveling vaccine people in
    this area.  They do FELV vaccines for $12.00/shot (2 shot series)
    on Sat. and Sun. at various locations.  Number is 800-336-4228 for
    those of you in the San Jose, CA area.
    
    And, they gave me the name of some organizations in the area that
    might help me place the cats.  I'll share those with you.
    
    	Nike Animal Rescue Foundation		408-227-2273
    	Pet Network				408-253-6683
    	Cat Connection				415-961-7877
    
    For some reason they warned against the place where I got my very
    first cat.  I think it has something to do with the way she collects
    fees from people who leave their/stray cats with her for adoption 
    then turns around and collects fees (smaller) from the people adopting 
    the cats.  However, I can understand the reason she does it even if I 
    (or anyone else) disagree(s) with the practice.
    
    Jan
    

    Oh, I've taken pictures and gotten copies made.  I've put up flyers
    here at work and intend to take some to my vet, the vet Jo works
    for and any other place I can think of.  I carry a set of pictures
    and a flyer with me for unsuspecting...er..I mean for anyone who
    wants to see them.
    
    Janet, bear with me.  I'll be sending the pictures to you soon.
    Please feel free to share them with anyone out in your area who wants 
    to see them.  Ashlar and Torbie's photographs do not do them justice.
    Dolly and Joey photographed very well (especially Joey).  They are all
    really cool cats.  I wish I could keep them all.
    
    Jan
                       

    Jan..If I didn't know you live on the West Coast...I would have
    sworn you were my neighbor!!   I thought of you this morning at
    6:00AM as I was chasing a very friendly house rabbit across my lawn
    with 6 cats in pursuit!!  YUP...I rescued a stray rabbit!
    
    Actually this rabbit hopped right into my neighbors house last
    week and he has been taking care of it. (so I thought!!!)  He
    told me he was going to build a cage and keep it for his 
    daughter who visits every weekend.  WELL..the jerk decided to
    party for the last few days and must have let the rabbit out
    on his own because we have seen it around and he survived two
    days on his own.  That's not real smart when the neighborhood 
    is full of cats/dogs...and many hungry strays!!  
    
    SO...as of right now the rabbit is in my shed with hay,
    water, carrots, celery and celery greens.  I have no idea if
    we are going to return this rabbit to this stupid kid explaining
    the cats will eventually get the rabbit if he leave it out or if 
    we should just try to find it another home!  (sigh)  The bunny
    is beautiful and VERY friendly!!! Anyone want a bunny?????
    
    Okay..so where is the note that has helpful hints on what to
    do for a rabbit????   So we can now add a rabbit to the 18
    cats and 3 dogs we have rescued from the neighborhood.  I
    quit when a stray cow comes walking by!!!   
    
    Sandy

    you could try ERMTRD::SMALL_ANIMALS (PRESS KP7 to add to your notebook)
    
    Doesn't Andrea Fease have a couple of bunnies?
    
    Deb

    Don't worry, Sandy, the next stray will be a horse!  Imagine that in
    your shed.
    
    Nice going on the rabbit!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Sandy,
    This could be a stretch, but...
    Do you know what kind it is or can you tell me it's markings, fur type
    and size?  I may know of someone who "might" want it.  They already
    have two bunnies, 2 guinea pigs, an iguana, african grey parrot,
    cockatiels, other parrots, assorted fish of many sizes( including koi)
    and of course...
    they breed cats and have around 20+-.
    Just let me know!\
    Karen

    Rabbits (I have one) are happy with alfalfa pellets, obtained easily
    and cheaply at any pet food store (my rabbit doesn't like the Hartz
    boxed pellets found at grocery stores).  Some wood to chew on, water
    bottle, a salt lick and the occassinal treat (along with some place ot
    live, of course) is pretty much what you need for rabbit keeping.  I
    have a little box inside my rabbits hutch so that when she poops (she
    tends to poop in one spot) it's all easily cleanable.  Rabbits can be
    litter box trained, but will tend to leave pellets around anyway, it's
    just a rabbits kinda thing.  
    
    So that's all you need to keep a rabbit happy, along with some
    attention.
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    kim

         Note 91.298 ...
    
    		       		- Andrea_who_has_*8*_bunnies!

    Geesshhh...how do you describe a rabbit!!!  I believe he's the size
    of a very small cat...maybe 3-4 pounds!!  He has short hair and is 
    mostly white with some pretty brown spots.  His ears are not the 
    floppy kind...but the kind that stand up straight.  I have no idea
    if he's female or male....I wouldn't know how to check!!!  
    
    For tonight I'm hoping my other neighbor who has a rabbit hutch
    will foster this little guy because I don't trust him living
    in my shed for too long!  Main reason is my shed is on the
    property line between my yard and my "stupid" neighbors yard
    and if I want to steal the rabbit from him...I sure don't
    want him to know we have it!!!!  As well as...the shed isn't
    really safe from other animals....because it has a cat door
    that can be opened if pushed hard enough!!!   
    
    I'll keep you posted....
    
    Sandy
    

    Sandy, check out the note Andrea wrote in the Generic topic (I think).
    I believe she's already posted the number for you.  It's a mini-manual
    on how to deal with rabbits.  
    
    How odd that the rabbit that showed up at your house was so similar to 
    the one I almost rescued.  I swear I didn't ship it to you. :^)  My 
    rabbit refugee was white with tan spots.  I don't know what happened to 
    it.  I went back to check on it a couple of times and it seemed to have 
    food and water (though I hoped it would get a better variety of food and 
    the rest of its needs, as described by Andrea, met).  Last time I checked 
    on it the patio and apartment were totally empty.  Don't have a clue when 
    those people moved out.  Knowing the type of people I'm living around
    I would guess it was some time in the middle of the night with no
    advanced warning for management.  Geez, I can't wait till my move date
    arrives.
    
    Jan
            

         Sandy, checking a male rabbit is quite easy once the testicles
    descend.  They are ... rather out of proportion to the size of the
    rabbit.  My rabbits are about 6-8 pounds each, and their testicals
    are the size of a human male's.  Really.  No joke.  Amazing 8-) .  And
    they don't have any fur on them - when I saw them the first time I
    thought they were sores or tumors!
    
         Jan, I hope the people who had the rabbit didn't just dump it on
    the street/park or have it for dinner.  There are a lot of people who
    do that :-( .  At least you did what you could - I'm sure bunny was
    appreciative :*) .
    
    					- Andrea
    
    P.S. My bunnies chase my cats around, so unless you put bunny in with
    Van Gogh, s/he should be all right.  Actually, maybe Van Gogh would
    like a bunny companion, since he doesn't like kitty companions ;^) !

    Blush Blush...I guess it's east to check a "whole" rabbit!!!
    
    Thanks for the pointers....
    
    Sandy
    
    ps...it would be interesting to see what Van Gogh would do
    with a bunny.  My guess is...it's furry so he would attack.

    Aren't bunnies rather aggressive towards cats? I know wild ones are, do
    domesticated bunnies get along well with cats?
    NO! I don't want one!  Just curious...
    Gee, Sandy, you would "liberate" a pet from it's neglectful owners,
    now, would you  : ) ????
    Sarah

    Liberate a pet from neglectful owners....ha ha..I've never done
    that before!!!!     So Sarah...how's Betty??????
    
    BUT..I did just speak to my husband and he is going over to
    talk to the neglectful owner.  We want to be upfront with him
    and not steal his rabbit and we want to try and educate him.
    If that doesn't work...then I'll steal him!!  We know he is
    in the process of building a bunny house...so in the meantime
    we are going to offer the use of our cage so he can keep the
    bunny safe!!!  
    
    Part of my reasoning for this is...he just moved in and I
    don't want to start trouble in the neighborhood because
    I'd be afraid of what he could do with my cats or all
    my strays.   When he was moving in, my sisters cats
    actually went in his house and he just laughed and said
    they could "sleep over" if they wanted to!!!  When you have
    as many cats as I do...you have to try and keep peace
    with the neighbors.  As well as...I'll keep my eye on the
    little rabbit to make sure he is being fed etc....  
    
    So we'll try this first...and if he says he doesn't want
    the bunny...I'll try to find him a home.  AND if I see
    the bunny running around again by himself...well I'll
    just have to steal it!!!
    
    Sandy
    

    Betty is doing great!  Such a sweet little wiggler, and as my son
    frequently states: "She's Betty, and she's tough as nails!"
    She enjoys chasing the cats around, and I swear the cats enjoy the
    game too!  Sometimes they give her a soft-paw swat, and she instantly
    turns her attention to a stuffed animals that she snitches from my
    son's bed.  All in all, a successful "liberation and placement" effort.
    Not that I condone that sort of thing... : )
    About the bunny, I used to have a bunny when I was a youngster. I
    trained him to run an obstacle course in our yard! I set up several
    barriers for him to go under and around, tunnels, etc. and walked him
    on a harness and leash for a few days.  Then he got the hang of it. We
    also used to play tag.  He was very cute and fun to have around. My Dad
    is highly allergic to all animals, so the only pet I could have was one
    that could survive living in the garage.  The bunny was just the
    ticket!  No, I still don't want one (Betty would be a little too rough
    on a bunny, I'm afraid). But they are fun pets! I still wonder how they
    get along with cats, though.  I know of one instance in which a wild
    rabbit killed a domestic cat. Don't know if the rabbit had babies it
    was protecting or what...
    Sarah

         My bunnies chase my cats around; I think the cats don't like these
    furry things that jump up in the air and bounce around ;^) .
    
         Koko the gorilla loved her kittens, so maybe Van Gogh would like a
    bunny ;^) ...
    
    					- Andrea

    Well we have a happy ending to this Bunny rescue story! (thank god)
    
    My husband went over to talk to my "stupid" neighbor last night and this
    guy said that he had made the decision two days ago that he couldn't
    care for the bunny and didn't want the responsiblity....SO he thought
    if he let it back outside the bunny would return to his real owners.
    (No brains!!)  So my husband told him WE would find it a new home!!!
    The only good news is...atleast he realizes he shouldn't own pets
    because he does not have the time to care for them!!
    
    SO...we approached my other neighbor (who is also an animal lover and
    has helped me with many wildlife rescues) who very gladly took the
    bunny home!!  She has had rabbits in the past..so she already had
    the bunny house and food etc.  The bunny (now named Candy)is very happy
    to be living with 2 adults, 3 young children, 4 cats, and 1 dog!!!
    This bunny is truly enjoying all the attention.  If you bend down and
    call the bunny...he comes running right up to you.   The last time I
    saw him he was sitting in a doll baby carriage...and was being 
    wheeled around the house!!!  I know this home will work out..and I
    get to see Candy grow!!  (smile)
    
    Regarding cats and rabbits.....my guess is a rabbit could hold his
    own against one cat, but when I picked this bunny up he was in hot
    pursuit by 6 cats and I'm not sure what his chances would have been!!!
    Someone told me a bunny can outrun a cat???  I find that hard
    to believe...does anyone know if that is true???
    
    Sarah...so glad to see Betty found a loving and wonderful home!!!
    That was one rescue/liberation...that was welled deserved.  I KNOW
    poor Betty would not be alive today if she hadn't been liberated!!
    There is NO guilty feeling there....
    
    Sandy 
    
    
    
    

    
    Thank god for people like you Sandy.... ;-)

               <<< MISERY::APPLE$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FELINE.NOTE;1 >>>
           -< Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected >-
================================================================================
Note 782.0                     How to catch strays                    13 replies
CPDW::ADAMEK                                         37 lines  28-JUL-1994 08:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I live in Leominster in the Wildwood condominium. I am an owner of two
cats. On our property no cats are allowed outside. So I try to keep mine
in or just from time to time I walked them in a conservation land which
is behind my unit.

As now, everything was OK. But some time ago, a few adult cats (I believe
they are stray or at least some of them) have appeared in the wooden area
behind my unit. Because I've felt very sorry for them I started to feed
them. Since then my problem's started. Now 4 adults cats come twice a day
for food. (I don't mind, I feel good and happy to see them fed up.) But a
couple of weeks ago one of them brought along with her 2 kittens. I believe
they are about 4 months old. Both are very cute, one is orange, second is
some kind of calico. I tried to get them to find a home for them. But they
are a little shy. Any time if I tried to approached them they ran away.

I was confident that some day I befriend them and everything would be all
right. But two days ago, during a night and early morning, we awake by
cat's screaming. There is a big tom cat who fell in love with the female
kitten. He is so big a she is so tiny. I afraid she would be a mother very
soon. It got to me there is no time for trying to get alone with her. I
must catch her as soon as possible. On the top of it, this morning I heard
a kitten's cry. First, I thought this is that little girl but later I saw
another kitten. My guess is it's about 8 week old at most.

If this situation would continue, there would be an army of cats and
kittens around and I would be in big trouble because of our condominium
regulation. Our back yard sticks because of the male. My cats are upset
and my tom cat is jumping from a balkony to chased them. Yesterday, I
couldn't find him for more then 2 hours. I am afraid very soon even my
loyal neighbors start complaining. 

Does anyone have any suggestion how to get them all? Any advice's welcome.
I'd like to see them being in safety.  I just cannot close my door and
pretend nothing happen.

Thanks,
Jana Adamek

                            UPDATE
                            ------
It's happened about 1 month ago. Since then, four more kittens (8-10 weeks
old) have joined the group. With help of my neighbor, we've managed to
capture 2 of them. Both are females, 10-week old, short-haired calico with
two thumbs on each paw. It wasn't easy. First, we tried a trap and captured
two kittens--the older orange and the little calico. Unfortunately, both
escaped. Then, we caught a baby skunk. This one didn't want to leave a trap.
Finally, we've trapped 2 little ones into a fishing net. We've found home
for one of them. The other has gotten her first vaccination yesterday. This
Saturday, I am going to bring her to Northeast Animal Shelter in Salem. MA.
This shelter has been the only one willing to take her. I am happy, because
as they said, they are the no-killing shelter. However, I'd rather if
somebody would like to adopt her and take her directly from my home. I
think it would be less stressful for her.

Now, we're going to continue catching others. I don't know how and when but
I feel it must be done as soon as possible because of weather. The chilly
nights are coming very fast. Four more kittens (two kittens orange and
calico approx. 4-month old, two kittens approx. 10-weeks tiger and some
kind of gray) are there. All of them look very clean and nice, especially the
combination of colors of the tiger and the calico look gorgeous.

If any feliner would be interested in helping to find good homes for
those kittens it would be very appreciated. They are still at large
but I am confident that we'd get them soon.

Jana                                                                    

>As now, everything was OK. But some time ago, a few adult cats (I believe
>they are stray or at least some of them) have appeared in the wooden area
>behind my unit. Because I've felt very sorry for them I started to feed
>them. Since then my problem's started. Now 4 adults cats come twice a day
>for food. (I don't mind, I feel good and happy to see them fed up.) But a
>couple of weeks ago one of them brought along with her 2 kittens. I believe

    Yep, this is how it starts.  You start feeding one or two and they 
    tell 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends, and so on, and so on... Next 
    thing you know you're running a mini shelter. [voice of experience]
    
    Is there an organization in your area like National Pet Alliance (NPA)?
    I know that they have groups in various locations but I don't know
    what all those locations are.  NPA has a TTVAR program for colonies
    of feral/stray cats.  
    
    		T = Trap
    		T = Test
    		V = Vaccinate
    		A = Alter
    		R = Release
    
    I'm sorry I can't be much help to you way out here in California.  I
    can only offer moral support at this point.  I'm working with 4 strays
    of my own at this point.  I've probably placed 7 cats from my complex
    in the last 4 years.  4 more to go before I move and 3 more that I'm
    thinking should probably be added to that but I don't know how I'd do
    it since I already have 4 of my own plus the 4 fosters.  Yikes!
    
    BTW, a friend (and recent ex-boyfriend) recently gave a name to what 
    I've been doing.  He calls it J.A.P.S.  (Jan's Animal Protection
    Service).
    
    Jan (who's swimming in extra cats at the moment)
    
    

    They don't just "tell two friends".  They put up little cat signs, with
    arrows pointing to your house - "Free medical care, food, and
    occassional shelter. For stray cats only. Possibility of permanent home
    if the owner is having a good day and the adult human male is away for 
    a few days. Follow arrow to big red house with white fence. Three dogs
    in residence, but they are WIMPS.----------->"
    If you don't make a joke out of it, you'll drive yourself crazy : )
    Sarah

  << Is there an organization in your area like National Pet Alliance (NPA)?
  << I know that they have groups in various locations but I don't know what
  << all those locations are.  NPA has a TTVAR program for colonies of 
  << of feral/stray cats.
    
     Sounds interesting. Does anybody know if such organization is
     in Mass. as well?
    
     Thanks,
     Jana 

    I have not heard of the NPA in our area...but I do have a
    few Organization that you might try calling .  There names/numbers
    came from a listing the Pat Brody Shelter made up a few years ago
    so I'm not even sure if these Organizations still exist or how they 
    will help.  Just ask alot of questions because I do know the Animal
    Rescue League in Worcester...might offer to help...but I KNOW they
    are always full and will most likely just put the cats to sleep
    immediately.  I'm not sure about the other Organziations:
    
       Animals Alliance            (617) 265-7577
       Animals Umbrella            (617) 391-7737
       Wors Animal Rescue Leaque   (508) 853-0030
       Boston Animal Rescue Leaque (617) 426-9170
      
    If you do call....I'd appreciate it if you could share any info you
    find on these Organizations.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    Hey, some of us "adult human male" types have very big places in our
    hearts for cats.
    
    Watch your stereotypes...
    
    ;^)
    
    len (steward to 5).
    

    
    Len,  I almost replied to that remark, but I know its all in humor ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Sorry, didn't mean to offend any of you! In my case, I have 6 pets - 2
    cats, 3 dogs and a bird. Exactly 2 of those arrived when my husband was
    home. The other 4 mysteriously arrived while he was away for a few
    days.  It really was meant in fun, and I believe it's a direct quote 
    from the signs MY OWN PERSONAL cat leaves in my neighborhood.  I'm sure 
    in your neighborhood the signs are different : ) You really should check
    out those signs, but don't ask your cat to show you where they are.
    It's supposed to be a cat-only secret, and if they find out that we
    know about them, well, I shudder to think of the consequences - cat
    billboards out on the highway, cat-coded messages on the local cable
    channel, obscene cat messages left on your answering machines, and
    subliminal cat-tapes being played while you sleep "take in more cats,
    take in more cats, get rid of the dogs, buy more cat food, buy more cat
    toys, take in more cats ..."   : ) : ) : )
    Sarah 

    I think my signs read "Soft touch lives here!" and "Home for Wayward
    Kitties."
    
    Jan

    I have a magnet on my frig that reads "There is a sucker born
    every minute and the stray cats KNOW where we live"!!!  HOW TRUE!!
    So even if you don't have signs...they'll find you!!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    My kids told me the signs are in that other dimension that only cats
    are privy to.  This is where cats go when they disappear for a while
    and you can't find them even in all their favorite places, or when
    they're chasing something you can't see it's because they're looking
    into the other dimension, like when they're staring off into "space".
    Rocky seems to be *very* well plugged into this other space.
    
    I think those "suckers" Sandy mentions were really cats in a previous
    life.  We're just recognizing old friends.
    
    len.
      

    len,
    I love the idea that we are "recycled" cats!  What a nice image that
    brings to mind. Thanks!
    
    Actually, though, I was hoping it would be the other way around - I'm
    really hoping I come back as one of Sandy's cats, or one of yours, or
    one that belongs to any other noters here.  What a nice life : )
    Sarah

    Hmmm...Len that kind of make sense because my husband truly
    believes I'm part cat!!!!      
    
    And when was the last time you "purred" to get what you want!!!!!
    Try it...it works!!!!
    
    Sandy

    
    Well, since I'm among friends I'll admit that I purred last night...
    
    len.
     

    RE: .28
    SANDY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION. I SURELY SHARE
    ANY INFORMATION I GET.
    
    MEANWHILE, THE LITTLE THINK IS GOING TO NORTEAST ANIMAL SHELTER
    TOMORROW. BUT YOUR INFORMATION MIGHT HELP TO FIND HOME FOR OTHERS.
    
    JANA

    I *do* purr. And my wife too...
    
    Nat, another 'adult human male'

    Jimmy purrs! 

    Well, all the fosters are now indoor cats...and boy are they just 
    thrilled.
    
    I brought Ashlar in Friday night and kept him in.  Got Joey, Dolly 
    and Torbie in on Saturday night.  Ashlar was born to be an indoor
    cat...he's loving it.  Torbie has moments when she thinks it is great
    and moments when she doesn't.  Dolly must think this is the worst
    kind of torture.  She's pretty much spent the last 2 days under the
    bed, only eats when I bring the food to her and meows woefully at 
    the door or window when she does venture out of the bedroom.
    
    Dolly has managed to slip out twice.  Once when I was going out for
    something and she slipped between my legs even though I was attempting
    to prevent it.  She ran immediately to the dirt and did her business.
    I guess she hasn't quite figured out she can do that in the litter
    boxes.  Or, she thinks they're being used by too many cats.  This
    morning I found her outside waiting for breakfast.  Seems she'd pushed
    the screen out on the window and gone outside.  I guess Torbie followed
    her as she wasn't in the house and I didn't see her outside.  I fixed
    the screen and closed the window.  Made like I was going to feed Dolly
    her breakfast and instead brought her back inside.  I'll get Torbie 
    tonight when she comes for dinner.
    
    Torbie and Joey got baths yesterday.  Except for some initial
    struggling, they were both very good.  We attempted to bathe Dolly
    yesterday and decided that wasn't a good idea as she brought down
    one of my kitchen shelves complete with plants, broken cookie jar, 
    dirt, etc. while trying to escape the evil water monster.  All of
    these guys have received Vet Chem breakaway flea collars.  I'll be
    treating the house with borax very soon too.  I'm starting to show
    some lovely bites.  I feel a bit sorry for whoever moves into my
    place since I seem to be leaving them with a wee flea problem.  Hmmm,
    I'll have to borax my new carpets when I move in so we don't carry
    this over.
    
    I've listed the cats with C.A.R.E. (Companion Animal Rescue Effort)
    as available for adoption.  I've also place signs at work and at my
    vet and Jo's vet.  I have potential homes for Joey and possibly 
    Ashlar.  We'll see if they pan out.  The girls still need homes.
    Dolly may be a perfect candidate for an outdoor home I'm aware of
    out in Morgan Hill.  I'd prefer and indoor home but she may not 
    adjust to that very well.  Torbie needs someone who has a lot of
    experience with cats.  She's semi-feral and just can't decided if
    she loves people or not.  Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't.
    She's a typical tortie-type...like a candybar...50% sweetness and
    50% nuts (and I've got the puncture wounds in my head to prove it :^)
    
    The girls are scheduled for their spay on Wednesday of this week.
    The boys are scheduled for "tutoring" on Thursday.  I pack Friday
    and move on Saturday.  Boy, what have I gotten myself into?
    
    Jan

    Great job Jan...I can't beleive you got them all inside!!!!
    
    May the kitty angel watch over you for life....
    
    Sandy

    Each time I look around at my tiny apartment and count 8 cats,
    I can't believe I've got them inside either. :^)
    
    Jan

    I know the EXACT feeling.....but after awhile they all kind
    of blend in with the furniture.   It's really funny because when
    we ADD one...it feels like I have added 10, but then life calms
    down once again!!!
    
    Sandy

    Update on .23:
    
    Good news ! The calico kitten has been adopted. NE Animal Shelter
    in Salem MA found a good home for her within 3 days. I am sooo happy.
    that another furry baby has been rescued. Four more kittens are
    still at large but I am working on being their friend. This morning
    they almost stepped into my house. 
    
    Jana
    (Mother of 2 and expecting mother of one of the kitten outside my home)
    P.S. I cannot wait to get them. All of them are very cute.

    Great job Jana...keep you the good work!!!
    
    I find it amazing how many people in this feline file are dealing
    with strays/ferals in their own backyard.   (sigh)  I've been dealing
    with the problem for 5 years now and it just feels like the over-
    population of unwanted animals is getting worse.  When will these
    "stupid/irrisponsbile" people understand the importance of spaying
    or neutering their pets...why oh why do they even have pets!!!
    
    Well...I just want to wish anyone who is attempting rescues all the
    luck in the world.   It's hard frustrating work...but it can be
    very rewarding.   And if you don't feel your efforts are helping
    the problem...just keep in mind that every female you spay you are
    saving over 500 unwanted kittens being born in 5 years.  Yes...
    millions of them will still be born...but atleast that is 500 less...and
    you have to fell wonderful about your accomplishments.
    
    Sandy (who gets so frustrated during kitten season...)

	Wonderful Jan and Jana!!


	Sandy, the ferals in my backyard seem to be decreasing.  I don't take
this as a good sign, and think maybe all of Gypsy's family except his sister,
have died. Maybe they're just catching enough of their own food now, and
won't need me until winter again.  I only feed them when I see them, because
too many family pets and possums come by and eat the food...I'm not about to
deliberately feed them too!

	Stick with it Jan, my feral is starting to come around after 10 months.
I can finally pet him (sometimes) even when he's watching my hand!  This has
just happened in the last week, and it's a thrill!

	Keep up the good work!

	Laura

    I'm feeling exceptionally guilty today.
    
    I took Dolly and Torbie in for their spay (Ash and Joey go tomorrow).
    Dolly is already traumatized over being in the house...with seven
    other cats.  She won't come out of my room unless it's to go meow
    mournfully at the window or door to the outside.  She only eats if
    I bring food into the room for her and I'm wondering what she's doing
    about a litterbox as I can't get her to go into any of the covered
    ones (the only time she got out she headed straight for the dirt to
    go).
    
    NOTE:  On the last vet visit I had them shave Dolly and Torbie's belly
           in an attempt to find existing spay scars.  They couldn't find
           one on either cat.
    
    Anyway, last night I picked the food up and no one ate after 10:30 due
    to Dolly and Torbie's surgery.  This morning I stuffed them in carriers
    before I fed anyone.  I had a bit of trouble with the luggage carrier
    as I toted the 2 carriers out to the car.  I managed to dump them
    forwards once, to the left side twice and poor Torbie went forward by
    herself once.  So, I arrive at the vet already feeling bad for the
    extra trauma of giving them a roller coaster ride.  I drop them off
    and head to BART for my weekly ride up to the SZO (San Francisco)
    office.  
    
    I'm working away when the phone rings.  It's Dr. Shanker calling me
    long distance from surgery.  He's working on Dolly.  I panic.  He tells
    me not to worry, she's fine.  But, there is a dilema.  He has opened
    her up and can't find a uterous.  He opened her a little wider and still
    can't find one.  He wants to know if I want him to continue to look
    which means putting her on gas anesthesia instead of injectable
    anesthesia ("tubing her" as he put it) which costs more, and doing more
    exploration to come to the bottom of the mystery or should he just go
    ahead and close her up.  We discuss the pros and cons of each.  We 
    believe she's been spayed but without the exploration to be 100% sure
    we don't really know.  It won't hurt her to just stop at this time and
    not do the exploration.
    
    So, after I while I decide that we should just close her up.  She's
    been outside for months, I've never seen her in heat, if she did have
    all the parts she probably would have been pregnant by now.  (BTW, they
    still couldn't find a former spay scar).  As he put it, it's mostly a
    financial decision at this point.  Continuing would cost considerably
    more.  He said he would attempt to look under the kidney one more time
    without the more exploratory surgery just to be sure and then he would
    close her up.
    
    God, I'm feeling terrible at this point.  To have put her though all of
    this for nothing is just the worst.  I'm praying that Torbie's spay
    will be normal.  Don't know what I'll do if she has problems too.
    
    Poor Dolly.  I wonder if she'll ever forgive me for all of this.  I
    need to find her a home of her own very soon.  I'd love to keep her 
    but I don't think she'll be happy being one of many cats in the Cordes
    mini-shelter.
    
    Does anyone know of someone that might want her.  She needs to be either
    the only cat or one of only 2-3 cats.  I'm thinking she'd be great with
    someone who is a bit older and possibly living alone or with only 1
    other cat.
    
    Thanks for listening...
    
    Jan
                  

	Jan,

	Try to stop feeling guilty right now!!!  You're doing the very best you
	can, and should be commended for all you've done IMHO.  The roller
	coaster ride should not have any long term negative effects on them.
	What an unfortunate situation that's happened to Dolly, but you're
	not to blame.  I felt terribly guilty when I trapped Gypsy the second 
	time and found him half starved to death.  I thought about all the hard
	times I put that little guy through, but realize that it was only
	done with the best intentions, and stopped beating myself up!  At least
	he's alive and healthy!

	Laura

    
    Jan,
    
    Please, PLEASE, (sorry for shouting,) but PLEASE give yourself a break. 
    I'm sure Dolly will forgive you.  How could you possibly know about her
    past medical history?  The roller coaster ride should't be to traumatic
    for her.  (You never know with cats, I have known former strays that
    love car rides, the rougher the better.  Who knows, Kitty amewsment
    park???)
    
    You are doing your very best. Now repeat after me...:-) I am doing my
    very best!!!
    
    If it will help, give Dolly a food treat tonight.  (Besides, being at
    the Vets with all those other animals in cages, she may decide that you
    house is Kitty heaven!!!)  Try an uncovered box for her.  She may not
    like the covered box for fear of being trapped by another cat in there.
    
    Take care, (of yourself too!!)  We are with you in spirit! and we
    sympathise with your plight.)
    
    Feline good about all the hard work that you do!!!!!
    
    Sue & Furry Crew

    Just a quick note before I go into a meeting.
    
    Dolly and Torbie are home.  Torbie bounced back pretty quickly.  Dolly
    was a lump of fur all night.  She spent most of her time sleeping it
    off in a little carpeted cat house I have.  I went in to check on her
    several times.  There were times I thought she was no longer with us
    and tried to get her to move or meow just so I'd know she was still 
    in there.  Late last night when I check on her in her house she wasn't
    there.  I found her under the bed and figured she must be feeling
    better.  She was still in the same place this morning and was a lot
    more alert.
    
    I put a covered litter box in the room with her but she apparently
    opted to use the carpet instead.  I moved the box to one of the places
    she went (before I found the 2nd place) and hope that she'll decided
    to use it.  I've put a combination of sand litter and clay litter in
    there to hopefully simulate the dirt she's used to digging in.
    
    The boys are in for "tutoring" today.  Hopefully everything will go
    smoothly (no hidden testicles or anything like that).
    
    Thanks for the support FELINErs.  It really helps.
    
    Oh, BTW, I spoke to my manager at my new apartment (she used to manage
    my old apartment) and bringing the extra 4 will be okay.  I told her
    I'm trying to place them.  She even suggested I put up their pictures
    in the laundry rooms because the complex is filled with cat lovers.
    
    She also mentioned that her husband said something about me moving in
    and them getting "Mac" back (my cat that likes to jump on him while
    he's working in the apartment).  Apparently he reminds them of another
    cat they knew or owned and they're kind of happy to be able to see him
    again.
    
    Things are looking up.
    
    Jan
                     

    Just keep in mind what could have happened to Dolly if you
    hadn't taken her in!!!  A roller coaster ride...and surgery
    is alot easier to handle then trying to survive on the streets.
    She will forgive you...
    
    Regarding the litter....when I first took Van Gogh in we had to
    use part litter and part dirt...because he refused to use it with
    just litter.  As a matter of fact...I think Jo was the one that
    suggested that and it did work.  We slowly reduced the dirt...until
    he got use to the litter!!!
    
    Sandy

    
    regarding roller coaster rides for cats:
    
    whenever I take one of the guys (the girls don't seem to "get it") for
    a ride in the car (invariably to the vet), we play "fighter jock" (the
    car's a 300ZX); when there's a turn or a stop coming up, I tell Rocky,
    "hang on buddy, avoidance maneuver"...
    
    len.
    

    The roller coaster ride was before we even got to the car.  I've got
    this luggage cart I use to transport more than one carrier (or for
    cat shows) and I lost the bungee cord that goes to it.  So I replaced
    the one bungee with two.  Well, I apparently didn't get it centered
    right or something cuz it kept toppling over to the left.  Before
    that, the front support collapsed, then when I tried to take Torbie's
    carrier off it slipped and went down door first.  Poor babies.  
    
    Today's trip with the boys was much less eventful.  I decided to put
    them both in the big carrier together so there was no need for the
    luggage cart.  Piece of cake. :^)
    
    Jan

Update .24:
    
    My husband captured the another kitten a last Friday. It just walked into 
    our family room in basement. I wanted to get them all in and then to close 
    a door but my husband said it better to have one than none. Well, this one 
    is an orange kitten that we wanted to keep. My husband agreed to have it 
    but under one condition. It must be a female. We currently have two adults 
    cat; one is approx. a 13-year old female and second is a 6-year old tomcat
     Both our cats are not too much friendly to each other but they've already
     found a way how to live together. We feel that our tomcat (Bobik) needs 
    some younger mate to play with. But we've been wrong. He doesn't 
    appreciate a presence of the kitten at all. The kitten (Sammie) follows 
    him everywhere he goes because Sammie looks for a friend, but Bobik
    looks already tired of it. Above all, I am suspicious that Sammie is a male.
    I haven't told it to my husband yet but I am more sure every day. Also, our
    tomcat Bobik behaves differently than if we have a kitten (female), 
    captured earlier, at home. He (Bobik) has started spraying things at home 
    about year ago. And now, when we have the kitten at home he sprays even 
    more. As if he wants to let it know that it's his territory. This is a 
    reason why my husband is against to have another male at home. 

    I guess, that the best for all of us is to find a home for Samiie. Somehow,
    I don't like the idea to take it to the NE shelter even if they did a 
    good job with the kitten (female) captured earlier. It would be better if 
    Sammie could go directly to the new home. Sammie is about 4-5 months old, 
    an orange tabby with white paws and a bosom. I think it will be a kind of 
    long-haired because its tail is growing very furry and fluffy. It has very
    nice brown eyes. It is very clean (no flies, ear's mites etc.). It has 
    been a leader of the rest of kitten. It loves a company of cats that would
    be willing to play with it, sleep with it, and cuddle with it. It's still 
    a little timid of people but it's great with cats. But, if you consider 
    that it'd lived outside until a last Friday it did a big progress. It eats
    a lot, walks around house, play with my cat if he likes it, even play with
    me but it is afraid to be pet yet. It just sniffs my hand, plays with my
    toes and so on. It loves any company even people's. If one has a time to 
    talk to it and play with it it's happy. 

    If anybody would like to adopt it or if anybody knows people who want
    to get a playmate for their cat please let me know. I will help to pay
    for vaccinations or being neutered. Anybody who wish to see it (no 
    obligation) is welcome. 

    Three more kittens are still outside. I feed them twice a day. Hope I'll
    get them soon. 

    Jana

    Great Job Jana....keep up the good work.
    
    My guess is your little one is most likely a male because I heard
    90% of orange cats are male!!!  But of course...I do know some
    orange females too!!!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy,
    
    Your note did not make me happy. I am pretty sure that the kitten
    belongs among 90% orange males and I am afraind my husband won't 
    want to keep him. There is still a little hope because I forestered 
    for 7 month an orange female cat. There is still a calico kitten
    outside which must be certainly a female. At least I heard that
    calicos are mostly girls.
        
    Well, we'll see.
    
    Jana 

    Jana,
    
    Do you know how to "sex" cats?  I agree with Sandy that this kitten is
    probably a male, judging by my past experiences with rescuing orange
    cats.
    
    Lift the tail.  If you see what looks like an upside down exclamation
    point, the kitten is female.  Two small dots are male (obviously!!). 
    The older they are, the easier it is to "sex" them!
    
    Good luck!  Maybe by the time you figure it out your husband will be so
    attached that the sex of the kitten won't matter anymore.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Thanks! I will try to look under the tail. It's would be a little
    difficult because the kitten is still jumpy when I want to touch it.
    As far as I know, my husband hadn't mind to have a tomcat at home
    until Bobik has started spraying one year ago. I don't know what
    happened. My guess is that he got used to spend a lot of time during
    day outside and now he (a condo association rules) goes out very 
    little and it upsets him. My husband cannot imagine to have another 
    spraying cat at home.
    
    I would say, he already likes the little guy (it was  his idea to adopt 
    her...oops him) but sure thing is that nothing could change his feeling 
    about having another tomcat at home. He's afraid of that they would 
    compete between each other who would mark faster a larger space.
     
    Jana

    Well, if you get the little guy neutered early enough (6-8 
    months - no later), then they won't get in the habit of spraying.
    
    Some people have had problems with their cats spraying after they've
    been neutered, but in most cases it's because the cats were neutered
    at a late age, and had already gotten in the habit of spraying.
    
    It's a shame your husband wants to get rid of the poor little
    thing just because he's a male.  Convince him you won't have a 
    spraying problem as long as you neuter him.
    
    Pam

    What Pam said.  All of my cats are males, all were neutered early (six
    to nine months, but the earlier the better) and none spray.
    

    And my 9 boys all were neutered very late in life...and I do
    not have ANY problems with spraying, but yet my sister has one
    cat who was neutered when he was about 2, that sprays inside 
    if you do not let him go out!!!
    
    Go figure....but I do agree the earlier you spay them the less chance
    they will have to get in the habit!!!
    
    Sandy (who has two orange male kitties)
    

    What's the assumption that only male cats spray?  I know of several
    females that spray!  Early neutering/spaying before their hormones tell
    them to spray is probably your best bet.  With your tom, can you get
    him neutered?  Even that might not stop it without some medication to
    calm him down and brake the habit he has created, but it's worth a
    shot. And neutering the orange boy will hopefully prevent him from
    getting the "idea" that spraying is what big, bad, boy cats do!
    Good luck convincing your husband to keep him.  I've had great success
    by just bringing the animals home and pretending nothing is different.
    "What new cat? Oh, him? He's been here for MONTHS! New dog? Oh, that's
    Betty. Didn't I tell you about Betty?" : )
    Sarah

    Our Bobik has been neutered when he was 7 months old. I haven't
    seen any spraying until this spring. Even if I let him go outside
    (under my supervision) he sprays all over every three/shrub. 
    I got suspecious if he hasn't been fixed at early age. I realy don't
    know. I used to have a persian tomcat and he never sprayed. Do you
    anyone know about a treatment?
    
    Thanks,                                         
    Jana

    Onyx was a wild kitten.  I caught him and neutered him well within
    the age guidelines for male kittens.  But, he is very territorial.
    With 4 foster cats living on my patio it was a bit more than he 
    could handle so he started spraying to mark his territory.
    
    I tried putting him on Valium but that didn't work.  There's another
    tranquilizer that the vets uses, Buspar, but we opted to skip that
    and go straight to the Ovaban (female hormones) because he was spraying
    so much.  I had him on Ovaban for about a month.  Each time I tried to
    taper off he'd start spraying again.  We moved to a new place and I've
    noticed he's not spraying anymore.  I think that's because of a number
    of reasons:  1) he doesn't have the scent of previous markings to 
    remark, 2) the 4 foster cats are now indoor only and may be considered
    part of the family now, 3) the Ovaban helped to get him to stop long
    enough to break the cycle.
    
    There are some risks associated with using Ovaban though.  There is the 
    possibility of problems with diabetes, adrenal depression and/or breast 
    cancer in future years. 
    
    Jan

    Jan,
    
    thank you for guideliness how to rid of the spraying. When my tomcat
    started spraying I asked my vet what I should do to stop it but
    she said I could not do anything. Well, I have to talk to her again
    to consult with her options you described.
    
    Jana                                   

    RE: .24
    Today I got 2 more kittens. One older calico is still at large.
    These 2 kittens walked into my family room in basement. I hope
    they will get used to us soon. Their big brother Sam has been
    with us for 2 weeks and he already knows everything. So I believe
    he would help them to settle down. Meanwhile, I started looking for
    a good home for them. I don't know yet what sex they are but hopefully 
    I would find out that soon.
    
    Another good news. My husband agreed to keep the Sam even if he is
    a boy. I am so happy because he is gorgeous. 
    
    Now I need to capture the calico as soon as possible because I believe
    it's a female. She is (my guess) 5-6 months old. There is many tomcats
    around and I am affraid she could be pregnant soon.
    
    I'll keep you posted.
    Jana

    Good news.  The invisible cat has begun to show herself in the house
    lately.  Dolly has been seen resting behind the couch and under the
    dining room table.  When I arrived home last night she was actually 
    sitting in the living room in plain view.  She didn't run for almost
    5 minutes after I entered the apt.
    
    Guess she's finally getting over the trauma of her unnecessary spay
    surgery.  I've made a point of dragging her out in the openin now 
    and again for a few minutes of quality petting or grooming several
    times and it may have helped.
    
    I had the vet weight her when they took out her stiches.  I was afraid
    she hadn't been coming out even to eat.  According to the vet, she's 
    gained weight since the spay surgery.  I'm not so worried about her
    eating habits any more.
    
    Guess I'll need to post an adoption note soon.  Seems putting up the
    flyers around here hasn't quite done the trick.  The more advertising
    the better.
    
    See ya in the adoption topic soon.
    
    Jan

    
    I haven't been following FELINE for awhile, but I might need to use the
    adoption note soon so I started up again.  Meanwhile my "project"
    qualifies as a rescue, unfortunately.  
    
    I befriended a beautiful white long-haired stray near my apartment
    complex about 10 days ago.  This cat (as yet unnamed) was so friendly
    that I couldn't resist him and started feeding him.  After 5 or 6 days
    I even took him to the vet to have him tested for diseases and washed
    and flea-dipped so I could let him in the apartment with my other 2
    cats.
    
    My cats weren't accepting him yet, and he wanted out, so I let him
    out.  My plan was to feed him, let him in if he wanted, and try to find 
    him a home.  He's very adoptable -- beautiful, friendly, well-behaved.
    And I really don't need 3 cats in a 2-bedroom apartment! 
    
    But yesterday I got home from work to find him sitting in the parking
    lot, unable to stand on his back legs -- apparently hit by a car.  It
    was pretty sad to see him try to drag himself toward me.  I rushed him
    to the vet, who took an x-ray.  Fortunately no bones were broken, but
    he has a hip displacement.  The vet says that it should heal fine --
    with a few weeks rest.  
    
    So, it looks like, temporarily at least, he'll have to learn to be an
    indoor cat while he recovers.  I hope my other 2 can learn to accept
    him, but I'll keep them separated as best I can.  When he can walk
    again okay, I'll try to find him a home.  This'll end up costing me
    a few $$ but I just couldn't leave him out there...
    
    

    Good luck with him.  He was fortunate you found him so quickly.
    And as a person who has 8 cats in a 1 bedroom apartment (four of
    which are "projects"), I can sympathize with your dilema.
    
    Jan

   Wow!  8 cats in a 1-BR apartment...I can't even imagine that.  When I
   read FELINE I'm amazed at the number of cats some people own.  Although
   if I encountered more strays that needed help I'd probably end up that
   way myself.  Especially if I buy a house someday.

   I am open to the possibility of adopting this cat myself.  However, in
   the short term I am worried about trying to get my other two (neutered
   males) used to the new one (whole male) without stressing the injured 
   cat too much.  I don't want one of the residents to charge him or make
   him try to jump up on his injured leg.  But if I keep them separated
   ALL the time they'll never make friends.  

   The stray is spending the first week at the vet's because I have a 
   business trip the early part of next week, so he'll get his medication
   and some rest initially.  But when I bring him home I'll just have to
   supervise a couple of hours' contact each night and keep him in a closed
   room all day.  How boring!  But necessary...

    
    re:-1 Speaking  from my experience.... bringing home a male, while
    two resident males in the house. If possible get the newcomer nuetered
    or expect him to spray everything in site, also expect a lot of major 
    fights. If possible wash all three cats with same shampoo. It 
    is amazing what happens when they all smell the same. 
    
    Shaw

   Yes, I plan to have him neutered.  However, the vet recommends waiting a
   bit as he has to heal from his current injury.  Also he is just getting
   his first leukemia and distemper shots now and for some reason that I
   forget, the vet doesn't want to do the operation until some time after
   the _second_ set of shots.

   Actually, he already spent two nights at my house before he was injured and
   did not spray.  He has not been aggressive at all, but my one resident
   cat is very unfriendly toward him.  We'll see how it goes...my two current
   cats (males) took two weeks until they made peace with each other.  But at
   least they could run or defend themselves.  

   I'd like to think that they (the resident cats) will realize the newcomer
   is injured and be nice to him, but I think that's anthropomorphizing a bit!
   In the animal kingdom it's probably more natural to sense a weakness and
   exploit it.  

    Since the cat is injured and you probably can't shampoo him right now,
    try putting a little baby powder on him.  The vet has recommended this 
    to me in the past since vet smell elicits a nasty response from some 
    cats to a cat that was once a former feline buddy before the vet visit.
    
    Actually, you may want to put a bit on all the cats so they all smell
    the same.
    
    Fair warning:  When I brought two unneutered males into my apartment
    it triggered a very territorial response from my male (Onyx) who had
    been neutered 3 years ago.  He began to spray everything (actually he
    started while they were still hanging out on the patio).  This may not
    happen to you but I thought you should be aware of it.  Onyx was sort
    of territorial before this since he was feral as a kitten.  I caught
    him pretty early (about 8 weeks) and havae had him in my house since
    then but he still displays some of the former-feral-cat responses.
    I've been treating him with Ovaban on and off for over a month now.
    
    Jan (who needs homes for 4 cats ASAP)

    For those that remember Pat Murphy who was a very active Feliner
    when she was with Dec, has sent Karen Kolling a request for help
    in the off-line newsletter.  Karen suggested I also put this
    in the Feline File.
    
    Pat has done multiple rescues in the past and the last I knew she
    is living in a very small apartment in New Hampshire with 8 cats. 
    (sound familiar Jan...) Pat has just recently rescued 5 small kittens 
    and is requesting help for Foster Homes for a few of these kittens.  3 out
    of the 5 cats really need to be socialized before they can be adopted.
    If you can help Pat in anyway...ie being a foster parent, providing
    a donation, or giving her moral support, please contact her at
    603-626-0479.
    
    Thanks...Sandy

	Another rescue story - still in progress - 

	Gracie has been living on or under our front porch since the
	spring. Can't accurately estimate her age; at first glance
	we thought "a year, tops" 'cause she's small, but she's got 
	some scars on her ears, indicating she's been around a bit.
	Two things are certain: she lives outside all of the time, and 
	she's clearly been socialized at some point as she *loves* to 
	be petted and picked up. Make that three things: we're not going
	to leave her outside. At least, Ralph (husband) and I agree in
	theory; it's getting to the point of doing something tangible
	that's a problem for Ralph. You see, he worries that our resident
	three, particularly our oldest, will be traumatized by the
	introduction of another new cat.

	His concern about Noel (spayed female, 10) is that he believes
	she doesn't adapt easily to changes. She tolerates Ewok (spayed 
	female, 2, whom we rescued as a month-old kitten) but won't play 
	with her.  (And Ewok *loves* to play! )  Noel doesn't tolerate 
	Max (neutered male, 9), who joined the household about 14 months 
	ago - growls and hisses if he even crosses her path, runs away 
	if he approaches, will strike out with claws if she feels cornered
	by him. (Is this territorial? A dominance issue? Just plain fear?
	All of the above? We're not sure. Max is a real sweetheart, very
	loving and gentle.) 

	My gut tells me Ralph worries too much about Noel, and by making
	a big fuss, encourages her to be more fussy. Example: I insisted
	we cut down on her food as she was getting a round little
	tummy. When we did, she all of a sudden got *much* more sociable
	with me - "talking" to me, sleeping at my feet, even allowing
	me to pick her up - whereas previously she had been standoffish
	and skittish (I've know her for over two years, and lived in the
	household for over one).  I think he spoils her, and that she has
	a lot of very desireable behavior in her that's not being
	brought out or reinforced consistently. 
		
	I know that the experience of actually bringing Gracie in and 
	supervising the introductions over time is the only way Ralph 
	will ultimately quit worrying - and I don't really mean this to 
	be a "he's wrong and I'm right" diatribe. His heart is definitely
	in the right place.

	I guess I'm writing this for two reasons - setting it down in
	print helps me see the situation more clearly; and to ask for
	whatever tips (and especially moral support!) other FELINE 
	readers can offer.  

	It's clear that Gracie is coming inside; I think the real problem 
	is going to be Ralph's adjustment! :)

	Thanks much,

	Lynn
	
	

    
    Lynn, 
    
      We have  three cats and some have come and gone as we fostered
      a few. What has realy worked for our cats is whenever a new comer
      comes into the house, they all get shampooed. You will be amazed
      at the comoradory after they all smell the same. 
      When we introduced our third cat to the other two, things were 
      never realy that great, as they would hiss and spit and grawl 
      but after a few months when there was a need to wash the cats
      we were astonished at how the three all of a sudden were bounded. 
      Now they play together and hug and coddle up and all that. 
      I know it is not an easy chore to wash three cats, in your case 
      four. But it is definately a worthwhile effort. 
    
      Shaw
    

    I agree that all smelling the same can be helpfull, but shampooing a
    cat that has never been shampooed might not be easy. Somthing that I've
    done before, after a cat has come home from an extended stay at the
    vet, is to get some "grooming spray" from the pet store, and give
    the cats a good comibing. They will all smell like a barber shop for a
    while instead of like the vet. 
    
    good luck!
    Deb

    Okay...What else can show up???  So far in my neighborhood
    I have rescued 18 cats, 2 dogs, 1 house bunny...and you would NOT
    believe what showed up in my yard on Sunday!!!  A darn Rooster!!!
    If you could have saw the expression on my face when my sister
    yelled "sandy come quick...there is a rooster under our picnic
    table".
    
    You might think I live out on a farm...but the sad part is I live
    in a residential area, on a dead-end street which is only about 
    3/4 miles from town!!! Well after walking the neighborhood asking
    anyone we saw if they were "missing a rooster"...we sat outside and
    babysat the rooster for 2 hours while we waited for the animal Control
    officer to come pick it up.  It was a very nice rooster...but not 
    something I want as a pet right now!!!  The animal control officer said 
    this was the second rooster he picked up this week. He had a farmer
    who was going to take the other rooster...so hopefully he'll take
    both of them!!
    
    Unbelievable...what else can show up??? I hate to think of it!!!
    
    Sandy

    Hey, Sandy, how 'bout some ducks or a Canada goose ;^) .
    
    					- Andrea-and-her-mini-farm-which-
                                          includes-ducks-turkeys-and-
                                          chickens-but-no-roosters-and-no-
                                          I-don't-want-any-roosters-either
                                          ;^) ;^) ;^) ...

    Sandy,
    Lucky the circus isn't in town : )
    Sarah

    Andrea...it's funny as soon as I saw the rooster I thought of your
    mini farm!!!!!   I tell you...I was the talk of the neighborhood 
    yesterday as me and my sister patiently sat on my front porch with a 
    rooster!!! And YES...I did take pictures because who would believe
    us!!
    
    And no Sarah...I do not need an elephant in my yard; unless of course
    you want to adopt it for Betty!!!!  
    
    Sandy

         Well I *do* have some nice chickens who would make great pets ...
    if you'd like ... ;^) ;^) ;^) 
    
    					Mischievious me

    This is the reason that there is a law that when you buy baby chicks
    or ducklings, you must buy them in multiples of 6. It is because around
    Easter time people buy them for their kids becuase they are cute not
    thinking about what they will do with them when they grow up and turn
    into chickens or roosters (which will keep serve as the neighborhood
    alarm clock). 
    
    Deb

    Rescue of kittens continue ... RE .24, 38, 45, 55, 67
    
    It's a long time since I started to rescue 6 feral kittens living
    in the woods behind our touwnhouse. Since then 5 have been captured
    and 3 of them have found already their homes. We, my husband and I, 
    decided to keep the oldest one, approx. 8 months now, a tomcat called Sam.
    After being with us for 1 1/2 months he grew into the big, domestic
    long hair male who loves to be pet. He visited the Vet last Friday
    for first time in his live. He was tested negative for Leukemia,
    he got all his shots and edded his male sex live as well. I thought
    he would hate me because I took him to the doctor but he looked for my
    attention even more.                                 
    
    Two female tabbies, which I got into my house, are still in but I have
    been started looking for home for them (see adoption note 4.723).
    
    This morning I got 3 more kittens (approx. 9-10 weeks old) (adoption
    note 4.723). They walked along with their mother in our family room in 
    basement as the others earlier. The mother managed to escape when I was 
    closing the door. I have to try to get her too because I believe she is 
    the mother of all kittens that we caught. They are 3 groups of different 
    age with range of 2 - 3 months apart. Those three kittens are very cute. 
    I took them to Norm in Fitchburg Animal Hospital to keep them for awhile 
    because my house is currently staffed with cats and my old tomcat is 
    very upset about that. He is hissing all day long even forward to me.
    
    This is a reason why I have to speed the adoption process for two
    kittens keeping at home at this time. I have been told by NE shelter
    in Salem that they would take them if they will have a test again
    leukemia and distemper shots and if they are friendly. I wanted to keep 
    them as long as they will be completely tamed but I have to placed them 
    as soon as possible because of my tomcat Bobik. They are still shy, jumping 
    if they hear some noise or we move fast. But, I believe they would be
    as friendly as our Sam but they need more attentions which I couldn't
    provide because of my jealous Bobik.
    
    Well, my goal is. Found good homes for all of them as soon as possible
    and get the mother and the female kitty (a sister of our Sam). 
    
    Jana

	Any suggestions on any agencies who help find homes for cats/kittens
	in the Northern Mass. / Southern NH area (Westford, MA)?

	I've pulled some no kill shelter and animal shelter names from 
	this file and will call them, but some of the information looks out
	of date. Most of the ones I've contacted before were overcrowded
	or not taking new cats because of the threat of rabies.

	I plan to run an ad in the local paper next to see if someone would
	like to adopt a cat or kitten. 

	I see that alot of you folks are so wonderful at trying to feed and
	save the stray cats. The woods behind my house keeps getting new cats,
	I've found homes for many, got several of them fixed and their shots,
	fed them, and still the other day I found a the family (mom and 3
	kittens about 9 months old) on my back porch. Since I just can't
	afford to pay for the 4, and can't adopt any more myself, I am hoping
	that some of you may have some advice on resources to help find these 	
	cats homes. 

	I hate to see them have to live in the wild and the population
	continue to increase. 

	Thanks for any ideas and up-to-date information on available resources.

	Also, if anyone knows the current number on the Friends of Animals,
	if they still offer discount coupons for spaying, and if any local
	vets accept the coupons I'd appreciate it. If I can't get them adopted
	at least maybe they could get fixed.

	Thanks for any information you can provide, I know the information
	is in here somewhere. But I'd like some current ideas and info.


	Sheri

    
    
    	I don't have the FOA info but I believe Dr. Robin Porter
    	on Ferry Rd. in Nashua honors the certificates.  She's
    	in the same building as the humane society.  882-0087 -
    	it's actually called the Ferry Rd. Animal Hospital.
    
    	Good luck!
    
    	JJ
    

    You could try "Kitty Angels" - It's a privately run no-kill shelter in
    Tyngsboro.  They helped us find homes for the four kittens of a stray
    who adopted us.  They may well be full, but they'll help with finding
    homes if you can foster the cats in the meantime.  They may also be
    able to get you discounts on vet bills for cats that they're trying to
    place.
    
    Their number is (508) 649-4681.

	Thanks, I called Kitty Angels and some of the other no-kill
	shelters I saw listed in this conference.

	Unfortunately, all of the ones I called no longer take cats
	because of overcrowding and the risk of rabies.

	Kitty Angels will take cats previously adopted by them.

	I'll call Ferry Road Animal Hospital about the FOA. Dr. Porter
	who is who I go to for my other cats.

	Thanks for the information.

	I am placing an ad in the newspaper for next week.

	Sheri

    Please help.  
    
    Firstly, I live in So. Nashua.
    
    My problem:
    
    A cat came around the house sometime last fall and has been	"visiting" 
    us since.  Couldn't find where/to whom he belonged but 'assumed' 
    someone belonged to him.  Now I'm not so sure.  This past weekend Floyd 
    was outside soaking in the rays and I noticed some 'throw up' next to him 
    with some roundworms in it.  I pet him and asked how he was doing and
    noticed he was running a fever.  As I went into my house, Floyd made a
    bee line in, went under the family room coffee table and crashed.  OK,
    I thought, he doesn't feel well and he's tired and there is a new dog
    in the neighborhood.  Well, that crash was 8 hours long and he spent
    the entire weekend IN my house never going out once!  He also threw up
    a few times and I KNEW he was sick and my old lady cat (13) never
    hissed at him or threw a tizzy fit while he was there.  Yes, this is
    unusual.  
    
    On Sunday, I asked my kids to go around the block and see if they
    could find his home...nope, didn't find anyone to claim him.  As I
    said, I already have one cat, my 6 year old son is allergic to cats
    (but not THAT badly), and Floyd is sick.  I just don't know what to do. 
    He is NOT my cat.
    
    OK...now, I just CANNOT leave him out to fend for himself.  *I* would
    like the following things done:
    
    	-  Treatment for Roundworms
    	-  Full check up
    	-  Full series of shots (I don't know if or when he's had shots)
     	   including the Feline leukemia one...
    	-  Neutered
    	-  A LONG LONG BATH (he stinks!)
    
    The vet I use for my cat is incredibly expensive and I can't afford to
    bring her in half the time, but she's an indoor cat and I didn't really
    have to be concerned.   Now that Floyd is "in", I am worried about my
    cat.  I MUST get this poor animal treated, but he's not mine and I
    don't know if he'll even stick around like this once he better.  I am 
    wondering if anyone out there knows of a vet who can help me out (i.e.
    reasonably priced and understanding that this animal is not mine and I
    don't even know if he's a stray).  Can anyone help????  Any
    suggestions???  Anything would be more than greatly appreciated.
    
    Sandra

    Oh I forgot to mention that after all this, I think Floyd is now ours
    and that I am NOT looking for a home for him, we will take this guy in. 
    He has an incredible disposition (NEVER once hissed, scratched or bit
    my kids, 6 & 9, never bothered the older cat), he's a VERY big boy,
    wouldn't wanna p*ss him off!  ;)  I will assume he's a 'mouser'.  He's
    a good boy, but his background is VERY questionable.  I have already
    treated his 'boo boos' from fights with cats or whatever and he's been
    very good about that.  Floyd is a wonderful cat and I just can't not
    take him in (I know, a sucker born every minute), but, like everyone
    else, am strapped for $$.
    
    Again, thank you for your advice and help.
    
    /sr

    
    Sandra, 
    
       The reasonably priced vets that we deal with is at the seacoast
       so that might be a little too far for you to travel. But a word
       of cution! If you don't know about Floyd's medical history and
       you also know that he has worms, it is not a good idea to expose
       your older cat to him before he is tested. We have rescued
       quite a few cats in our neighborhood that have tested positive to
       FIV.  Please becare full with this. Especially if Floyd has 
       used your older cats litter box or dishes. 
    
       Good luck and I think it is wonderful that you have decided to help
       this guy ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Your vet might agree to a payment plan, especially in view of the
    potential threat Floyd poses to your old-lady-kitty.
    
    Then again, I had a *very* hard time getting my vet to give an
    appointment to the neighbors' dying cat; this cat was not one of my
    vet's official patients, you see :-( .  You can guess my opinion of
    this elitism... and I had cash on the line; luckily I had reserved a
    spot for one of my two kitties, so that increased my bargaining
    position (they couldn't argue that their calendar was full).
    
    Best of luck,
    Leslie

    Thank you much for the words of caution.  You are absolutely right and
    yes, I have 'thought' about those things, but under the circumstances I
    just couldn't/can't turn this animal away.  He's been around since the
    fall and the kids love him...he really is a good boy.  
    
    When I first got T, my old lady kitty, I had her vaccinated for the
    leukemia, etc.  I just hope all is well.  I am not very concerned about
    the roundworms, mostly just inconvenient, especially if we all have to
    be treated!  Kids, wash their hands, keep faces away...yeah, right! :)
    
    What I didn't say in that humongus note was, Floyd's eyes have always
    been clear and healthy and his coat is not a neglected, sickly/diseased
    coat.  His mouth and teeth and gums *look* healthy and his behavior has
    always been sweet.  He is a very stong cat, yet gentle.  I *think* he
    is basically healthy and just needs a little doctor care on a regular
    basis and a place he can call home with lots of TLC.
    
    At least I am HOPING this is all it is.  It is, I just KNOW it.  Maybe
    better put, I just HOPE it!  ;)
    
    Thanks again for the caution.
    
    Sandra

    RE: .3
    
    What a jerk that vet is!  I'm sorry, I don't know him, but that's one
    of the points I was trying to make.  I want a vet, and one did come
    highly recommended via my plea, who practices veterinary medicine, not
    one who's in it for the all mightly $$$$ and who cares about these
    critters.
    
    Yep, am bringing both kitties to the kitty doctor, but NOT together!!
    :)  Floyd likes to ride in cars and T is, well...uh, she's a wee bit on
    the difficult side when it comes to cars.
    
    Thanks for the input!
    
    Sandra

    I have an appointment for Floyd for tomorrow night at the Merrimack
    Animal Hospital.  This hospital came highly recommended by a fellow
    noter.  I will let you know how it works out, probably on Friday.  I
    have no doubt this vet will work with me in setting up a reasonable
    payment plan.  I will mention the doctor's name on Friday.  He is
    reputed to be an avid animal lover himself, so with that in mind, I am
    very excited and thankful to have been referred to him.
    
    I wish to thank all of you who so quickly responded to my plea.  I
    completely forget how people get together to help the helpless and your
    more than generous offers of financial help, food, supplies, moral
    support...I am still beyond astounded!
    
    			THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!
    
    Now Floyd MUST cooperate by not pulling a disappearing act on me
    tomorrow night like he did last night!  Yep, he came back this a.m. to
    be fed!  Unfortunately, I didn't sleep all night worrying about him, so
    he is VERY lucky I didn't yell at him for worrying me!  ;)  After his
    bath and shots I will just have to bite those tasty little kitty ears! :D
    
    Again, I sincerely thank ALL of you...
    
    Sandra
    
    P.S.  Stay tuned for the continuing saga of Floyd, The New Addition (I
    	  hope)! 

    Sorry, but I just had to laugh when I read the note about a vet being
    in it for the $$$.  As a vet student, I can assure you that you will
    rarely, if ever, meet a vet that is making what you would consider "the
    big bucks."  Student loans are outrageous by the time you finish 4
    years of undergrad & 4 years of vet school.  The average income for a
    starting vet is around $27K, and for an owner of a practice it's about
    $60K.  Sometimes you don't make enough your first years out to pay your
    student loans and rent every month...
    
    I can totally understand how it appears unreasonable when a vet isn't
    willing to take a payment plan.  But it is more probable that the vet
    has been willing in the past, but has been burned too many times &
    can't afford to be everyone's "animal lover" who should work for free.
    I totally agree that there are good vets & bad vets, but it just seems
    that folks are so quick to think that just because someone expects to
    be paid for their work that they're greedy.  Would you work at Digital
    on a payment plan for the love of computers?
    
    Again, I know that there are vets that aren't willing to budge on
    payments for what appears to be no reason, but they are so few and far
    between - try to be a little understanding if you aren't sure why they 
    set up those kinds of practices.  Vets know going into the game that 
    they're not in it for the money, but they do have to stay afloat and may 
    have run into problems before working those kinds of payment plans.  
    
    -liz

    Liz,
    I agree with you 100%.  I think people fail to understand that a vet
    has a business to run.  Who pays the health insurance for the vet and
    his/her employees? Who pays the rent on that building? Who pays for all
    the state-of-the-art diagnostic equipment? Who pays for the heating and
    electric bills for the holding areas, exam rooms, and operating rooms?
    Look at the $ per hour a lot of consultants get - and they don't have
    any medical training or save any lives! Would you be shocked to hear
    that a consultant gets $100 and hour? So why would $40 for an office
    visit startle you?  I realize we get very emotional about this, and I"m
    sure vets have a really hard time refusing a client who doesn't have
    the cash. But, if they accepted EVERY client on a payment plan, we
    wouldn't have many vets left!
    I'm very lucky to have a very good, long-term relationship with my vet.
    If I'm in a bind, (and I have been a couple of times with my stray kitties
    needing immediate medical care) he accepts a payment plan because he's 
    been taking care of my family's pets for 15 years.  I wouldn't expect 
    that kind of treatment from a vet who has never seen me before.  A vet
    who takes that kind of chance probably has wonderful clients who
    haven't stiffed them on bills - clients like all of us : )
    Good luck with Floyd.  I'm so glad you found someone who can help out.
    It's so hard to be unemotional about all this when you've got a furry
    baby who needs help!
    Sarah

    
    
    
    I never meant to indicate vets or anyone else are ALL in it for the
    $$$.  My belief, via experience, is that anything to do with the
    benefit of anything comes with the very high price tag and anything to
    do with the detriment is easy.  Being a former medical professional
    (practicing Med Tech and certified with the ASCP) with experience in
    both the public and private sector, I have seen more than I care to. 
    Unfortunately, everything is based on the $$.  Good for goodness sake
    doesn't *generally* apply.  Although, thru this notes conference, I
    have been contacted by VERY generous individuals with offers of
    monetary help, and it does my heart good just knowing there are good
    souls still out there.  Did I accept?  No, I couldn't, but the offers
    alone filled me with such warmth that I was forced to get out of my
    ?coldness? (for lack of a better word) with regard to the Human Animal. 
    I think the point I was trying to make regarding the vet *I* have been
    using was, he is just plain old expensive...period.  I used to go to
    Andover Animal Hospital and simply adored them.  They were very kind,
    loving and made no attempt to hide their feelings.  The same work I had
    done with my current vet in comparison to Andover the difference was
    approximately 45%.  I don't know about anyone else, but I find that to
    be a significant difference.  Am I making sense?  First cup o' coffee!!
    :)  That is what I meant about being in it for the $$$.  Should this
    new place I am taking Floyd to, make me more comfortable, then I am
    switching, if not, then for routine type stuff I think I will just have
    to make the 30-45 minute drive to Andover.  I want and demand, like
    everyone else, what I pay for and the best care as well.  *I* must feel
    confident and comfortable first, then my children and furryKids will
    pick up on my 'vibes' and have the confidence as well, thereby healing
    quicker.  That's the bottom line...get well fast!
    
    I am most comfortable with a 'win-win' situation.  That is a deal where
    EVERYone is happy.  People are paid to do a job and the recipient gets
    what is paid for - fair play.  There is no doubt that if one has a
    business one must run it like a business.  Businesses are there to make
    money and provide services.  All ANYone askes is provide the service in
    return for a fair price.  
    
    You also forgot to mention the most important part of the $$ spent, let
    alone the overhead of the physical property and the salaries and
    benefits of the employees, the cost of lab equipment and reagents and
    medications are beyond absurd (I don't mean to the patient, but actual
    cost to the physician/vet/whomever).  I'm sure we'd all be shocked as
    to what must be paid out for that!
    
    I just was not happy with my current vet anymore (he expanded) and the
    clinic was run more like a retail store rather than a healthcare
    provider.  I was looking for help in finding a place to help me help
    an orphan and work with me because, like most people today, things are
    tight; time, money, responsibilities.  It's got to the point in many
    people's lives where they have to 'schedule' a shampoo and shave. 
    Isn't that a crime?  I must stop and smell...oops...kiss the kitties!  ;D
    
    Sandra

    Agreed.  What I meant by payment plan was partial payments stretched
    over time (with perhaps a finance charge), NOT a reduced total payment
    (is that what it sounded like?--sorry).
    
    And with the scenario of taking in my neighbors' dying cat (their vet
    had no time on his calendar, and the neighbors didn't have the ready
    cash), I met with resistance from the *office staff*, which may or may
    not reflect my vet's actual views.  (I've run into this kind of thing
    with my daughter's pediatrician; she's in partnership with a few other
    pediatricians, and the office "management" [hah!] is atrocious.)
    
    Leslie

    Well, Floyd came around about 9:15 last night.  I heard a scratching on
    the door and there he was.  Nope, he didn't use any manners at all,
    just barged right in and started crying for food.  Hmph!!!  Like I
    should feed him, especially after making me worry about him the
    previous night!  ;)  He ate, drank and crapped out for the night and
    this a.m. was eagerly awaiting breakfast!  The kids were relieved that
    he was there and happy he was let in to spend the night.  As we were
    leaving, we asked Floyd if he wanted out, and he just did the usual
    ignoring routine.  Nothing like taking right over, huh?
    
    Well, he's been in all day and I hope T hasn't been completely
    traumatized, although that in itself would be difficult because she's
    only awake 3 minutes a day unless she smells food!  ;)  And tonight is
    the night for Floyd's doctor visit.  I am soooo worried that when we
    get home, he will want to go out and I won't see him again until
    tomorrow or Saturday!  He IS an outdoor cat, but finding that he likes
    inside...ALOT.  I am wondering if I should just NOT allow him out until
    AFTER the vet visit.  What do you think?
    
    Thanks,
    Sandra

    Keep him in until after his appointment. It is better to inconvenience
    his a little than for him to miss his appointment.  He may not
    understand, but he will be better off.  I think of my four as children
    and find myself repeating what my mother use to tell me, "Someday
    you'll thank me for (fill in the blanK).
    
    Linda

    hahahaha!!!  Yes, mother's words do tend to be repeated!!!!  And Floyd
    has certainly put away his party manners.  I gues this means he feels
    more comfortable in my home and maybe is considering making it his. 
    Yet again, he may change his mind after a few visits to the kitty
    doctor!!!!  I am REALLY nervous about that...
    
    Sandra

    He's a smart cat - has himself a slave to open the door when he wants
    to come in, to open the door when he wants to leave, a warm bed if he
    feels the need, and free food!  What's not to love?
    I made the mistake of letting one my strays out the morning of a vet
    visit, and he didn't come back for a couple of weeks!  Keep him in, if
    you can.  Just tell your other cat NOT to tell him about the vet : )
    Sarah

    Sorry, I didn't mean to make a direct attack on your statements - one line 
    just caught my eye & my fingers took over from there in regards to what I 
    seem to hear over and over again with folks regarding the cost of 
    veterinary care.  I definitely know that folks who note in the animal 
    notesfiles are the ones who generally know the value of veterinary
    care for their fuzzy loved ones - and are willing to pay for *good*
    care and demand that good care for good money (as well we all should).  
    I ended up "preaching to the choir."  Sorry, I hadn't meant to do that...
    
    All the best with your new family member.  
    Regards,
    liz

  In at 8 a.m. to examine all in-hospital animals needing it & all critters in
for surgery. Surgery starts like 9 or 10 and depending on the number of
surgeries (we might average 5-10 a day) and their difficulty (declaws are easy,
spays take longer, other things like C-sections longer still) you may/may not
work through lunch. If you work through lunch someone gets something for you off
the catering truck.
  Hopefully you're done with surgery by 1:00 because that's when your
appointments for the day start rolling in. One every 15 minutes and once you're
late for one it can be hard to catch up. (I've mellowed alot about having to
wait to see my Dr. after having worked at the vets). If you aren't doing surgery
your appts. go from like 9-12, 1-5:30. Again, get behind and you grab bites from
a sandwich between clients.
  Depending on the day of the week, you finish appointments at 5 or 6, or 8 p.m.
Then there's time to return calls made to you during the day and calling people
with the results of things like blood work. Plan on 1/2 to 1 hour to write up
records for the 25 or 30 patients you saw today.
  If you weren't doing surgery, you're working till 8:00 and you're on call.
A night without a page is pretty rare. Probably 2 or 3 before 10:00 - often
hit-by-car cases or cat abscesses from springtime fighting. Then the folks
who've been putting off calling all evening and are ready for bed finally make
the plunge and give you a ring. So maybe you get a page like 11:00 or 11:30.
Don't be surprised to get a call about 3 a.m. or so, either. Seems to be a
popular time for C-sections. ;-)
  And don't look too forward to the weekend off; you'll probably work either a
half day or whole day Saturday (all our Dr's work in the a.m., one's on Sat.
afternoon and then on call the weekend. If it's "your weekend" you work the
full day Sat., on call Sat. evening through Sun. night and you'll be in seeing
emergencies Sunday.
  So you get the pleasure of working like 5 9-12 hour days, being on call a
couple nights a week with a near 100% probability of not sleeping through the
night (we see any emergency regardless of whether or not you're a client),
working a majority of Saturdays during the month and one or two Sundays, owing
like 80-100K to the vet school and making (I've also heard) like $28K as an
average 1st year pay. These people definately aren't in it just for the money.

  
						Trace
  

    RE: .105
    
    No one is saying that your point need not have been stated.  A reminder
    like that is ALWAYS necessary.  Same holds true for people doctors. 
    Formerly in the business myself, I know...Even as a MedTech, I would be
    called in at 3 or 4 a.m. due to emergencies or legal post mortems or
    whatever seems to happen and things happen ALL the time.  Again, here's
    my point re: benefit to life vs. detriment...and now that the ins. co's
    have taken over medicine, physicians are not ALLOWED to practice
    medicine they way they have been sworn to/taught/etc.  and they make a
    whole lot less than what our engineers make when first starting out and
    maybe close to the same as they progress...
    
    RE: .106
    
    Sounds like working in the hospitals I worked...typical day...and yes,
    even *some* of those people surgeons were calling their accountants
    after a big one...takes all kinds and one has to be careful...
    
    Update:
    ======
    
    Took Floyd in to the Merrimack Animal Hospital last night and saw Dr.
    Clough.  I can't say enough wonderful things about this man.  Not only
    was he beyond gentle with Floyd, but reassuring to me.  He is one of
    the warmest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet.  Floyd behaved
    beautifully.  After I explained everything to the Dr., and after a very
    quick look-see to Floyd, Dr. Clough offered to take him, treat him and
    said he would have no problem finding Floyd a good home...his
    guesstimate was 48 hours!  I was flabbergasted, but told him that Floyd
    came to us and that must mean something to him because he is still
    around and we have all become a wee bit attached to him.  Dr. Clough
    said he thought that by becoming a part of our family was the best
    decision.  Andrea, Michael and I wholeheartedly agreed.
    
    After this was decided, he said that yes, Floyd was sick, but sick from
    his fighting wounds (some of which I hadn't found).  He is now on
    Amoxicyllin for 7 days, 2ice a day (oh what fun that is) and got his
    rabies shot.  I have an appointment for next Friday morning to have him
    neutered, de-wormed, and the rest of his shots.  The doctor didn't want
    to give him the whole series because Floyd just wasn't feeling well
    enough (still running a temp).  The doctor also agreed to help me with
    a payment plan if needed.  I explained that I thought he would need a
    whole lot more medical work than what has been proposed.  The doctor
    laffed and said if Floyd wasn't such a horse and obviously strong as an
    ox, I would have had my hands full.  So all in all, Floyd is healthy,
    although more tests need to be run.
    
    I asked the doctor about bathing him and was VERY surprised with his
    answer.  He said, "Sure, bathe him, this cat will let you do anything
    to him, but clip his nails first, just in case..."  We all laffed. 
    Floyd, well, I just couldn't believe it.  He didn't budge, scratch,
    bite, whine or try to get away...T, on the other hand, is the most
    difficult animal to handle!  So this experience with Floyd was a 
    pleasure.... 
    
    I'm thinking that I will bathe Floyd this weekend because he really
    does stink!  And he'll be having surgery and all that, and I think we'd
    all feel better if he were a bit cleaner.  My son offered his shampoo
    because it's tear free and Dr. Clough roared and agreed that would be
    the best to use on Floyd.
    
    So, now I am the proud owner of a Green Rabies Tag and a good kitty. 
    Floyd hasn't left the house since Wednesday, at 9:15 p.m.  I'm not sure
    what he's going to do AFTER his, um...uh...'surgery'.... :D
    
    Thank you ALL for your offers, help, moral support and kind words...I
    only wish I had found this file sooner...
    
    Big hugs to all of you and your respective furfaces!
    
    Sandra

    Sandra,
    If you want to get Floyd the cleanest with the least amount of time,
    nix the human shampoo and head straight for the Dawn.  It will cut
    the grease, oiliness and crud out of his fur better and quicker
    than a human shampoo.  You never shampoo a cats head either.  Just
    wipe him down real good with a wet face cloth.  If you fill the sink
    first with warm water (bear in mind a cats normal temp is @ 101.5) then
    poor in some Dawn so as not to make bubbles, this will make your jobe
    easier.  The soap will act as a wetting agent and you won't spend a 
    half hour just trying to get his fur wet.
    Good luck and call if you have any questions!
    Karen

    hahahaha!!!  Straight for the Dawn!  You're tooo funny.  I was thinking
    the same thing...because he really is a mess and oily too...and guess
    what????  I WILL call!!!!  :)  Thanks for the offer and confirming my
    thoughts on what to use.
    
    FYI to all:  I was talking with one of my colleagues yesterday and she
    has 3 long haired dogs.  You know that commercial on TV for that Pet
    Glove groomer thingy???  She got one at Bradlee's for $12.99 and said
    that the mitt is the BEST invention since Ben & Jerry's
    Cholesteral_In_A_Pint!  The only problem with it is that it is strictly
    right handed and if you want to use 2 at a time, you can't.  She said
    that her babies don't run from grooming time anymore and beg to have it
    done.  I have never used it, but thought that some of you might want
    some feedback.

    Well, I never got to bathing Floyd, but will have to soon.  I did get
    the litter area all squared away (that took almost 3 hours!!!!); got
    everything disinfected, cleaned, lined, and double lined (just in
    case!).
    
    Also went out Friday night and picked up a cat carrier at Just For Pets
    (FYI:  $7.88), flourescent orange flea collar and a flourescent purple
    flea collar, a catnip toy (which he has NO interest in) and one of
    those grooming gloves.  Can't wait to use all that.  Both cats like the
    carrier to hide out in, but I'm sure that one trip to the vet's will
    cure them of liking it!  ;)
    
    Floyd seems to be not thrilled with the schedule he must adhere to by
    taking his amoxycillan 2ice per day.  He makes it purrrfectly clear
    he's not happy about taking it!  Thank goodness only a few more days of
    that!!!!
    
    Friday is his appointment to be neutered and de-wormed.  I wonder how
    long he'll stay with us after THAT ordeal?????  :D
    
    Just thought you might want to know.
    
    Sandra
    
    P.S.  After his bath and vet visit, I hope to take a photo or two to
          show how handsome he is.  At least *I* think he's handsome!  ;)

    Thank You so much for trying your best... Im sure that "Mary" is 
    blessing you from kitty heaven.. God Bless her...
    
    SueJ

    That was a real tear jerker!!  I am so sorry for you and the kitty.  
    I have a Mary at home but she doesn't go out.  Thank you for
    trying so hard for her.  At the very least, as you said, you got
    her off the road and she had a little dignity in death.  Not to be
    left behind...
    Tell Scott we think you both did well.
    Karen

	What a sad story, brought me to tears as well.  At least you tried
	to help this poor cat.  How horrible to see it hit, especially more
	than once.

	Hugs,
	Laura

    I'm sad to report that an attempted rescue last night failed.
    
    I was following a friend to his house so that he could change
    for an evening out.  He was sick of wearing his tie.  We barely
    got on the road when this little streak of tabby markings dashes
    out in front of his car.  We were just at the entrance to 101 on
    Great America Parkway.  For WRO folks, it was right by the Catholic
    Church and the huge statue of Mary.
    
    He managed to miss her.  I watched helplessly from my car behind him 
    as she continued on into the next lane in her misguided attempt at 
    crossing the road.  He pulled over and I pulled over.  I think we both
    had the same idea at the same time...to stop and get her out of there.  
    
    At that moment truck came by and hit the cat sending her rolling as it 
    continued on.  We were pretty sure she didn't get caught under a tire 
    and had high hopes that we could get her out of there.  Just then a 
    second car came by and hit her too.  It appeared that she had been 
    caught between the wheels of both cars instead of under them but I 
    wasn't really sure of that.
    
    I was screaming "OH GOD, NO" at the top of my lungs in the car.
    I opened the door and (without thought to my own safety--which 
    was probably very stupid) I ran out into the street waving my 
    arms to alert traffic that I was there.  Scot says he ran after 
    me waving his arms.  He was wearing a bright white shirt so he was
    more visible than I was in my navy and white.  Luckily, most of the 
    cars had already gone by.  We'd also collected several cars off to the
    side of the road with us.  I'm assuming they all stopped to see what
    had happened.    
    
    Kitty ran from us as we approached her and she stopped just in the 
    bushes of the divider.  Scot reached down and scooped her up.  I
    ran to the car where I had a couple of Xerox paper boxes and grabbed
    one for her.
    
    We put her into it and then started trying to decide where to take
    her.  We pulled onto the freeway and headed towards Lawrence thinking
    we'd take her to Vets and Pets on El Camino.  At the first stop light
    I suddenly wasn't sure they'd be open at 8:30pm and ran back to Scot's
    car and told him I was taking Kitty to the emergency vet in Campbell
    because I knew they were open.  We pulled off into the Fry's parking
    lot for a minute to check the Kitty under the light and see how bad
    she was.
    
    She was panting badly.  I turned the car around and headed out to the
    emergency vet.  I was practically flooring the excelerator.  I kept
    getting stuck behind slow-poke people and I was getting really
    frustrated.  I kept listening for movement in the box and telling her
    she'd be okay.  
    
    When we got to the vet the vet tech took her into the back.  When she
    came back it was with an empty box.  She said the cat was agonal (sp)
    when she arrived and they had decided it would be best to let her go
    so they ended her misery.
    
    I just wanted to cry.  I had tried so hard to save this poor waif.
    It hurt so bad to know that I hadn't gotten her there in time and that
    there was nothing else to be done.  
    
    My only comfort is that she did not lie there in agony on the road and 
    die.  I'm also grateful that she didn't suffer too much longer after 
    her arrival at the vet.  I think she knew that Scot and I were trying to 
    help her as she stopped running and allowed him to scoop her up.  He 
    tells me now that her hindquarters weren't working when he put her in 
    the box.  I realize now that some of the noises I heard on the way to 
    the vet were probably her trying to get herself up.
    
    I keep wondering if she'd have had any chance if I would have been able
    to get her to a vet much sooner than I did.  I'm beginning to believe
    that it wouldn't have made any difference.  She was hit by 2 cars and
    may not have been able to recover no matter how quickly she received
    treatment.  I guess I'll never know for sure.
    
    Please, someone add her to the Silver Lining Memorial.  She didn't have
    a name that I knew.  I think I'd like to call her Mary since she was
    so close to that statue.  I wish that she'd been content to stay there
    on that side of the road.
    

    My best friend is a vet and she tells me that if 5 to 10 minutes makes
    the difference in an animal living or dying it probably couldn't have
    been saved in the first place (unless it is bleeding from an obvious
    wound). Even if you'd gotten to the vet 10 minutes earlier, the
    internal damage would have taken time to find and the treatment would
    also have taken time and it sounds like the kitty was too badly injured
    to save in the first place. You certainly were "above and beyond" in
    your help. I hope if I'm ever in similar circumstances, I am able to
    act as quickly and bravely as you did.
    
    Good job!
    Sari, and the Hon. Col. Sebastian Moran,DROFFC

    I'm so sorry. Be comforted inthe fac taht you did all you could.
    
    Deb

    I want to thank everyone who has posted or mailed their kind 
    words.  It really helps to know that there are people out there
    who are supportive of your actions without judgement.  I know 
    so many people who would question why I do the things I do for
    "just a cat".  I also know that I can come here and find the 
    understanding I need or am not finding in other places.  You've 
    all been there in one way or another and can understand my 
    pain or joy over those kitty lives.
    
    Thank you.
    
    Jan (who keeps reminding herself that she can't save them all...
         but she can sure as heck try)

    Oh, gosh, Jan, that is so sad.  But at least you *tried*, which is more
    than many (non-animal) people would do.  And I think Mary did
    appreciate it ...
    
    					- Andrea

    Jan, sorry it turned out the way it did.  But Mary was probably so
    stunned that she didn't feel anything, just heard your soothing voice
    and the monotonous rumble of the car as she drifted off.  You did a
    wonderful thing for her.
    And I know exactly how you feel.  I saw a car in front of me hit a cat
    one night.  I stopped, raced to the vet, but it had passed away before
    I made it through the door.  The least I could do was offer a decent
    burial.  Sometimes that's all we can offer...
    Sarah

    You did so save her!!!!!!!  You saved her from suffering.  Good for you
    and Scott...you both went beyond the call of duty.  And the vet you
    brought her to was kind as well...they helped end the suffering that
    would ensue.
    
    Big hugs and pats on the back for a job well done.  Sure does put a
    damper on ones nerves for a bit, tho (witnessing the hit).  You ensured
    peace for a little furcritter...
    
    Sandra

    I can't get the hits out of my mind.  They replay periodically when
    I least expect it.  
    
    I told my sister, Jo, about what happened while I was riding home with 
    her on Easter.  She said that there was probably nothing that could have 
    been done anyway.  Even though Mary showed no visible signs of injury 
    Jo said the blood probably rushed to the vital organs after the hits.  
    Mary's injuries were probably all internal.  The blood rush causes the 
    organs to swell which pushes the organs up into the lung area causing 
    pressure on the lungs (hence the panting...I guess).  She said that it 
    takes an x-ray to be sure this is what has happened.  By the time they 
    would have taken one and gotten the results, she would have suffered 
    that much longer and her chances of being saved would have been that 
    much less.  
    
    It appears there were no other alternatives than to ease her transition 
    to her next life.
    
    Thanks everyone for being so wonderful and so caring.
    
    Jan    

   Jan,

   I've been out on vacation so just read about "Mary" - I've added her to
   the SLM listing for you and just wanted to let you know.  I commend you
   for what you did and tried to do, just so sorry it didn't turn out more
   positively.

   with sympathy,
   Debbi

Well, I think the dear boy has adopted us.  After taking off for 5 days the day
after his *ordeal* of neutering, deworming, shots, nail clipping, ear cleaning
and bath, he graced us with his presence and demanded to be fed canned food! 
That was about a month ago.  Floyd now enjoys the outdoors sometimes at night,
but prefers to stay in during the day.  I think he has figured out that his
*tomming* days are over.  When he did return home, he growled, bit and scratched
me, but not THAT hard, just enough to let me know he was none too pleased with
me.  That lasted only a couple of days and now he gives me head butts.  :)  He
also ventures about the house and feels a part of the family although I think he
realizes my bedroom is sorta off limits, that's where The Princess lives...:) 
He does venture in from time to time.  He sometimes sleeps behind my daughter's
waterbed or under her dresser (if he can find room amongst all her 'treasures').

I put on a flea collar when he came home with my phone number on it and within 2
weeks had to loosen it because he is now a cow!!!!  That's OK, as long as he's
happy and no longer getting into garbage.  YIPPEEEEEEE!

I did run into a problem tho, I had to take off his flea collar last night
because he got an awful boo boo on the back of his neck from it, and I am
treating it with bacitracin...YUK!  I really don't want him outside without it
due to the woody areas we have and my concerns are more with the ticks than
fleas, but I would not be happy with fleas.  I don't know what I should do.  I
can't put the collar on until his boo boo has healed and the fleas and ticks are
already out in force.   What to do?

I do have to make his next vet appointment (Oh joy...Not) for the rest of his
shots and 2nd deworming, now I think he's got tape worm too!  Anything else,
Floyd????  :)  Am a bit nervous about taking him in again because his 2nd visit
there was a bit traumatic for him...but I think he's pretty happy with us
because he ALWAYS comes home...

Thanks to all of you for your help and concern.  I am soooooo glad we (::FELINE)
let him adopt us.  Good move!  :D

Sandra

    If the flea collar caused a skin problem, I would not  put a flea
    collar on him, even after the skin has healed. My vet says they are not
    much good anyway.  An outdoor cat will have fleas.  Fleas get in the
    house anyway thru screens, on peoples' clothes.  He recommends using a
    flea comb daily and disposing of vacuum bags promptly outside.
     

What is a flea comb?  Is it anything like grooming?  If so, oh boy, this will be
lots o' fun...!  :)

Actually the flea collar had more than one use.  One, of course, was to ward off
those nasty creatures and Second, I penned in my phone number, kinda as an ID
thing... :)  Oh well...

I suppose I can get him a non-flea cloth collar or something...it would make ME
feel better that when he was out, it would be easily noted that Floyd now owns
someone and is no longer a *stray*.

Thanks

/sr

   Sandra,

   My friend in Texas has a dog who has problems with fleas (in that they
   aggrevate his skin badly *if* he gets them !) but also had trouble with
   the regular flea collars - she found one that was made from bandana type
   material with organic ingrediants - maybe they have the same type of 
   thing for cats ?????

   Debbi
   

    You can put an id tag on a non-flea regular collar.  I get
    the expandable collars for my cats, even though they are indoor,
    so there is hopefully a zero chance they will get the collar snagged
    on anything and get caught.
    

    Flea collars in general aren't very effective.  In cats, the risk of
    toxicity from the flea collar itself probably makes using one not
    really worth it.  When the cats groom, they ingest the chemicals on the
    flea collars and some cats can be very sensitive to their effects. 
    Aside from that tho, they really don't work anyway - even on dogs...

    It is good to hear Floyd is doing so well. I think flea collars are more
    trouble than they are worth. If you want to id him, there are some
    really great collars that stretch and give (seeing as he is still
    growing) Just for Pets, and Petstuff have a huge selection. They also
    have several kinds of flea combs - metal ones and plastic. They are 
    inexpensive. If Floyd likes to be brushed and groomed, he will not
    object to a flea comb. My two start purring loudy, rolling over and
    just think this is the best thing. We, rather they, do not have fleas,
    but I do brush and comb them as often as I can, and check for those
    nasty little things to be sure.
    
    

Thank you everyone for your tips.  I plan on going to Just for Pets in a coupla
weeks.  My kids want Floyd to have his own bed because T sleeps in my bed with
me!  So, I guess I should start my shopping list:  Bed, Flea Comb, Collar,
Litter Box Bags w/handles (they're GREAT, BTW).  The kids always want to buy
toys for the kiddies, but Floyd doesn't know how to 'play'!  Although, when I
was tucking my daughter in bed the other night, he was under her dresser and all
I saw was a *clean* white double paw, so I grabbed it and he swatted me and we
went back and forth for a coupla minutes...That was a first!  He doesn't play
with toys, tho.  I think he's still adjusting.

I want to thank you all for your insights, advice and support!  So does Floyd! :)

Sandra

    Re: Litter Box Bags w/handles
    
    Dunno what these are, but I cut open handles on anything in the
    house, like shopping bags, etc., having heard about cats
    getting tangled in them with sometimes dire results.
    
    signed,
    
    worry wart
    

These are like the tall kitchen bags with the pull out kinda like handles, not
the kind with the handles cut right in the bag (you know...Hefty tie handles) or
something like that.  I found them at Just for Pets and have been using them for
a few months now with no problem.  When you want to change the box, you just
lift and pull the handles out and tie...it's wonderful!

Yep, I cut everything up, too.  I don't do it for MY animals, but I do it for
the dump animals and just in case the dump dumps stuff into waters.  So, I do it
for water critters too.  Don't know why, because the pollution will get to those
critters before the other stuff does (am being facetious).  That's another
story, tho, and VERY depressing.

RE: fleas/flea collars/flea combs/flea spray

We've tried everything, including a pest control company; they won the war
with the ants, but not the fleas.  The previous owners of our house had 3
dogs and 4 cats and a bizillion fleas.  Everything we did killed the adults
but not the eggs.  Since we live in Calif, we never get a good freeze in 
the winter so the problem never goes away - it just gets worse.

Our vet recommended a company called Fleabusters.  I don't know if it's just
a local company, but it would be worthwhile looking for them or something 
comparable in your area.  They use a non-toxic powder.  You don't have to 
leave the house or round up your animals.  They use a machine to mush the
powder into the mat under your carpet so you do have to cover your electronics
to keep the fine dust out.  You also have to vacuum 3 times a week for 5 weeks 
after (and you have to clear everything out from under your beds and closet
floors, if they are carpeted).  The powder dehydrates the eggs and larva; it
doesn't kill the adults so the problem can actually get a little worse before
it gets better.

They guarantee it for a year, but you can't shampoo or dry clean your carpets.
(We had it done a week before to get rid of the hairball, etc stains.)  It's 
more expensive than traditional approaches, but when you're desperate....

			SQ

    I've heard good things about Fleabusters as well.  However, you
    can buy the stuff they use and use it yourself, much more cheaply. In
    our area, Pet Food Depot in Palo Alto carries it.  I forget it's name,
    but any big knowledgeable pet supplies place should know about it.
    

    The stuff is called diatomaceacis earth.  That is not the correct
    spelling but you get it I am sure.  There is a lot of info 
    on this running around on the net.  The only thing to be careful 
    about is NOT to use the DE that is for pool filters. AND be
    very careful breathing the stuff.  Wear a mask.
    Karen
    

    You can do a similar thing with plain old Borax.  Put it down on
    the carpet, buy cheap vacuum bags, vacuum each day and throw the
    bag away.  (Actually, I think throwing the bag away works pretty
    well alone.)
    
    I have a set of instructions acquired from Jo Cordes Brown available
    for anyone interested in the Borax method (and it's good cardiovascular
    exercise too :^)
    
    Jan

    Well, she's not really a rescue but...I don't know where else
    to put this.
    
    I finally took Mystic, the kitty who has been living on my patio and 
    the neighbor's patio, in for a check up.  She handled it okay for a
    cat who's probably never been to a vet or ridden in a car.  I used
    the "bubble" carrier.  It looks like a big water cooler bottle with
    air slots in it.  She could see out around her.
    
    She was very well behaved at the vet.  She seemed to take it all 
    in stride (thought she wouldn't speak to me for a while after we
    got home). :^)
    
    The vet pegs her at about 1.5 to 2 years old.  She weights 10.5 lbs.
    (not bad for a kitty that was very tiny and who the neighbor thought
    wouldn't make it).  She's been eating Science Diet Maintenance since
    I took over her care so she's got an incredible coat and has really
    filled out (almost too filled out).
    
    I had the vet do an FELV/FIV combo blood test.  She let me wait for
    the results (15 minutes) since it was an amazingly slow Saturday
    for them.  I told her it didn't really matter what the results were
    since the neighbor and I were going to keep her and care for her 
    regardless.  She came back NEGATIVE!!!!!  I was relieved.  She's been 
    vaccinated with her 3-in-1, rabies and the first of two FELV vaccines.
    
    They shaved a little strip down her belly to see if she had a spay
    scar and she does so I don't have to worry about that.  They were
    amazed that she let them do that as well as draw the blood without 
    a fight.  She looks kind of funny with this bald strip.  I hope her
    fur grows back quickly since she's outside and it still gets kind of
    cold at night.  She refuses to sleep in the little house we made her
    so I hope she has a warm spot.  She used to use the little house but
    I think some cat marked it and she doesn't like it anymore.  Will 
    need to clean it up for her.
    
    Her bill came two $84.00.  This was just $2.00 under what the other
    two cats I took in came to together.  Ack!  I'm hoping the neighbor
    will consider picking up half of that expense.  Now it's just a matter
    of getting her collar and tag with my neighbor's name and number on it.  
    He wants to keep her very badly but is afraid that his 13 year old cat 
    will freak out if he brings her in.  She loves being outside and freaks 
    when I bring her in so I figure she can continue outside until I 
    convince him and her she belongs inside.
    
    What a relief to have this out of the way.
    
    Jan
    
    

    I was at lunch today on the corner of San Thomas and El Camino Real
    in Santa Clara.  When I came out of Ravioli's I spotted a black and
    white cat wandering around the outside patio tables.  I was kind of
    dirty and looked pretty thin.  He was incredibly lovable and he was
    kneading as he wandered around and he kept rubbing against everything.
    
    I felt like he was probably hungry as he kept looking up at everyone
    that walked out of one of the food places.  I usually carry cat food in
    my car just for this situation but I didn't have anything.  I was
    trying to figure out what to get him when I realized Una Mas was right
    there and I could get him some chicken.  I went inside and ordered a
    chicken taco with no salsa or anything.  When I explained that this was
    for the cat outside the woman suggested that I just get a side of
    chicken.  Great idea!  I didn't know I could do that.  So, I took the
    grilled chicken outside and tore it up a little so there weren't huge
    chunks in it.  If fed him a little at a time and he was loving it.
    
    Unfortunately, I had to leave.  So, I tore up the rest of the chicken
    in the cup and set it down under a table for him.  Then my friend took
    some of her ice cubes and put them in a plastic lid and set it next to
    the food so when the ice melted he would have some water.
    
    Problem is...I've been worrying about this cat since.  I'm torn on what
    to do about him.  He's hanging out on a very busy street corner with a
    very busy parking lot.  I think he may have come over from the
    neighborhood behind it but I'm trying to figure out how he got there. 
    There's a pretty large/tall wall behind the place.  
    
    There is a little ridge of fur on his neck that indicates he might have
    had a collar on at one time.  I'm really torn on what to do.  I feel
    like he can't really stay where he is and I'm concerned that if I take
    him to the Humane Society he may not ever leave.  I certainly can't
    take him home.  I have 7 in the house and 1 on the patio as it is.
    
    Guess I'll go by the Humane Society tonight and check the lost notices
    to see if the description matches anyone.  
    
    Thanks for listening...
    
    Jan

    I couldn't stand it.  I had to go back and look for this cat.  I had
    gone by the Humane Society last night to look for missing black and
    white cats in the area so I could contact the owners.  
    
    So, I conned ^C^C^C persuaded by best buddy to go to lunch with me
    and we went looking for Mr. Kitty (plus it was a good excuse to go
    back to Raviolis for lunch :^).  I had put some cat food, bottled
    water and a cat carrier in the car this morning and I armed myself
    with a list of pet agency phone numbers.
    
    Got over there and no kitty.  I'm bummed.  I'm relieved that I'm not
    currently trying to figure out what to do with the cat since I'm at
    work but I'm also concerned about his where abouts.
    
    Sheesh, I've can't eat at Ravioli's every day until I find him again.
    
    Jan

    There's an apartment complex I used to live at down the road from my
    current place.  Over the 4 years I lived there I probably placed in
    the neighborhood of 12-15 cats from that place.  Four of them currently
    live with me and 1 is my missing Torbie cat.
    
    Anyway, I noticed recently that the complex seemed empty.  There were
    no cars parked out front and the apartments appeared to be empty.  A
    few days later a fence was put up around the complex.  
    
    Back when I was first looking for Torbie I had gone over there thinking 
    she might have headed to her old home.  While there I became attached to 
    a little short-haired tortie girl I called "Squeak" because of her high-
    pitched meow.  I was worried about Squeak since there weren't any people 
    living in the complex any more.  Last time I saw her one of the
    families living near her favorite spot was feeding her.
    
    So, I went by the complex and was going to go in through a hole in the
    fence when a guy came up and asked me what I was up to.  I told him I
    was concerned about one of the cat that had lived there now that there
    were no people to supply food.  He walked with me and we talked about
    what was happening to the complex.  They're remodeling what I
    affectionately refer to as "the dive".  They've going to make them
    really fancy and totally out of my price range.  The cats are a problem
    for the construction company.  This guy implied that they wanted to get
    rid of the cats and could not take the time to trap them and take them
    to humane society.  He led me to believe that they would kill the cats
    instead and that he was as upset about it as I was.  He claimed to have
    called the humane society 3 times attempting to get their help with the
    cats.
    
    I was frantic at the thought that they would kill the cats.  I told
    this guy that I would try to find an organization to help me catch them
    and take them to the humane society.  He gave me his daytime phone
    number and pager number.  I then went to the Santa Clara HS and got a
    few phone numbers.  I've received two callbacks from the 4-5 numbers I
    called.  One can't help since they're out of the area and the other
    doesn't do this type of work.  I was referred to a woman who does but
    the number I was given doesn't work.  Unfortunately, this guy doesn't
    want anyone on the property when it would be best to catch the cats
    (evening and weekends) due to liability issues.
    
    There are quite a few kittens living in the couches they have stacked
    in a carport.  I counted 4-5 as well as an adult grey female.  I also
    saw a black and white cat run under one of the buildings as I walked by
    and I'm told she has kittens too.  I have not seen Squeak in the two
    days I've been there looking for her.
    
    Tonight I took 8 cans of Fancy Feast over and fed the cats.  Only two
    would come out (the gray and a tortie kitten) while I was there.  While
    there I ran into the complex manager who was checking on the property. 
    He remembered me from when I was looking for Torbie.  He said he was
    worried about the cats too and had hired Swat Pest Control to come in
    and trap them and take them to the humane society for $25 per cat. 
    He's estimating there are 15-20 cats to be caught.
    
    I grilled him about what they would do to these cats.  He promised that
    the plan is to get them to the humane society.  He says he can't
    guarantee no injuries but that he doesn't want any of them hurt in the
    process if it's at all possible to avoid injury.  He says they're
    planning to use the hav-a-heart traps.    
    
    I asked if he'd mind if I'd continue to come by the complex in the
    evening to check on the cats and see if Squeak and my own cat might be
    in the colony that is living there.  He said that would be okay.  He
    also gave me his card in case I need to reach him.        
      
    I also plan to check the humane society for the cats I'd recognize from
    this complex to see if they make it in there.  I don't know what else
    to do.  I'm not particularly thrilled that they'll be going there but
    it's better than the alternatives (death by poisoning, slow
    starvation).  The kittens are pretty wild and I'm not sure the humane
    society will be able to take the time to work with them.  I was able to
    pet one that I snuck up on but he was really scared (too scared to
    move) and hissed the entire time until I backed away so he could safely
    jump down from the perch he was on at the time.
    
    I was planning to ask for help in this group in trapping the cats but
    it appears that function has been reassigned.  I guess I just needed to
    express my concern and fear for these babies.  I'll be looking for them
    each time I'm at the humane society.  I don't know what I'll do if I
    see Squeak in amongst them.  I know what I'll do if Torbie is in there. 
    I'll be wisking her home so soon it'll make your head spin.
    
    BTW, the first guy I talked to thought that he might have seen Squeak
    and that she may have a litter of kittens herself.  Of course, I can't
    verify that since I haven't seen her and I got the distinct impression
    he wouldn't have a clue which cat I was talking about since he didn't
    know what a tortie was even after I tried to explain it.    
    
    Jan
                       

    
    Jan, good luck with your efforts there. I hope you find some volunteers
    to help out. But as you mentioned if the cats are not socialble what 
    would be the plans, can you bring them to another safe outdoors.
    Problem is most cats will try to go back to what they know as their 
    territory. 
    
    Shaw
    

    How sad Jan....best of luck trying to find some Organization
    to assist and hopefully the kitties aren't just being caught
    to be put to death.  I do understand this would be better then
    a slow poisoning death or starvation...but my heart would like
    to see each one of them giving a chance to live.
    
    NOW..god darn if people would just be responsible and take
    care of their own cats there wouldn't be so many colonies
    around of starving strays..  ARRRGGGHHHH sometimes people
    really make me sick.
    
    Sandy

    $%#@**&& "Swat Pest Control"??  I sent Jan mail offline about the
    Homeless Cat Network maybe being able to help, although I believe
    they are north of this area.  Jan, maybe the fact that HCN wouldn't
    charge for trapping (assuming they could do it) would sway the
    building people.
    

    By the way, if the property is securely fenced off so no nutcases could
    get to the traps, and the traps were hidden from the road, some animal
    organizations would say it was okay to put them in place late in the
    day and collect them the next morning.  I don't like the idea much, but
    it's probably better than the Pest Control people.  Or, the animal
    people might sneak in in the evening and just not tell anyone.
    

    Another place to call is the Stanford Cat Network.  They maintain
    the feral colonies on the Stanford campus.  Try Carol Hyde at
    (415)723-9627.
    

    The property is fenced but there are a couple of places a person can
    scoot through.  I've done it twice now.  The thought crossed my mind to
    go rent/borrow a trap and start seeing what I cando here.  However,
    I'm concerned that Swat Pest Control may not take kindly to my taking 
    $25 per cat away from them.  I'm not sure what they'd do if they saw
    me.
    
    I'd like to be sure all the kittens go in together so they can stay
    together at the humane society.  If they go in at different times they
    end up in different cages.
    
    I'll give Homeless Cat Network a call and see if they can do anything. 
    I also plan to go by the Santa Clara Humane Society and see if I can
    get them to monitor the situation at the very least or get involved if
    possible.  I want to go there when there are people working who
    recognize me.  Last time I went it was the weekend/holiday crew and
    they don't know me from Eve.
    
    Jan

    Went to SC Humane Society and spoke to Louis.  He says they don't trap
    but that they recommend a company called Critter Control if trapping
    needs to be done.  He also gave me the number of Animal Control to see
    if they might monitor the situation.
    
    I'm going to supply Critter Control's number to the apartment manager. 
    Seems that if the Humane Society recommends them then they might use
    methods acceptable to them.  And, they might give a better price than
    Swat Pest Control.
    
    I do have Homeless Cat Network's phone number now and will also call
    them.  The humane society probably won't take time to work with the
    kittens since they're kind of wild and they have a ton of tame kittens
    already up for adoption.  Unless someone wants to foster them they
    probably won't be given a chance for adoption.  They have to show some
    sign of being tame right away to be given that chance.
    
    Keeping fingers crossed that this all works out...
    
    Jan

    The Homeless Cat Network does do some fostering, but they
    may be up to their gills already.
    

    Just spoke to Animal Control.  They guy there is going to call Swat
    Pest Control and see what methods they use and if they're trained, etc. 
    The only company he was familiar with that does this kind of work is
    that Critter Control company I mentioned earlier.  He says he'll call
    me back afterwards to let me know what he finds out.  
    
    I had asked if anyone monitors this type of situation and he was not
    aware of anyone that did.  He's in code enforcement for Animal Control. 
    I mentioned that I was concerned that my missing cat might have found
    her way back there and I'm concerned for her safety and the saftey of
    the colony living there.  He said he'd use that information as a way to
    open the conversation with Swat Pest Control and ask his questions.
    
    I tried to reach the apartment manager to suggest Critter Control and 
    no one picked up the phone.  I think an answering machine may have
    eventually answered but there was no message and I wasn't sure if that
    was the case or not so, I started to leave a message just in case and
    got beeped at so I'm not sure it recorded.
    
    Still plugging along on this,
    
    Jan

    Just called Homeless Cat Network and listened to their recording.  They
    state in the recording that they do not provide rescue services and
    refer to Peninsula or Palo Alto shelters.
    
    Bummer.
    
    Jan

    Re: .151
    
    I think it's worth leaving them a message explaining the situation
    and asking if they can help at all or arrange any fostering.
                              

    I just got a call from Animal Control.  They've asked the owner of Swat
    Pest Control some questions about their methods, etc. and feel that
    they're a reputable company.  They will stay in contact with them.  He
    says Swat keeps records of each animal they trap and can show the
    records if necessary.  The owner is going to send the Animal Control 
    person some literature on their company and they may be used as a 
    referral in addition to Critter Control in the future.  
    
    Apparently the owner was a bit surprise that someone had called and was 
    a wee bit on the defensive but I guess the animal control officer was 
    able to deal with that okay.  The owner also mentioned that Critter 
    Control charges just to go out and look at the situation but that he does 
    not.  I had asked if the officer thought $25 per cat was reasonable. 
    He did not know what Critter Control charges so did not have a fee to
    compare it to.  Oh, he also mentioned that this was a small company.
    
    The animal control officer says that Swat has already made two trips to
    the humane society today and that the cats caught were definitely not
    someone's cats so I guess my Torbie wasn't in there so far.  I'll go by
    tonight and see if I can locate them in the crowd at the humane society.  
    If Swat is this fast at trapping cats then I suspect I won't have time to 
    get anyone else out there (even if I could find someone who would go).  
    
    I bet little gray cat is in the batch that got picked up today.  She's a
    sucker for a kind voice and a little food.  I wonder who else they got.
    I'm hoping the kittens end up going in together instead of separately
    so they'll have each other for company.  Time allowing between a trip
    to the HS and my meeting, I will cruise by the complex tonight and see 
    if I can find Squeak again.
    
    Jan
    

    I'd doublecheck on the cats that are "definitely not someone's
    cats."  In amongst the feral cats "we" caught at Sertze's apartment
    (note 1003, if I remember correctly) was a cat originally thought
    to be feral by its reactions, but which was actually very sweet
    a day or so later.
    
    You probably know this as well, but animal shelters have multiple
    places they keep cats, normally, and if any of the cats is hurt
    it is probably in a medical area, etc., so it pays to insist that
    they tell you how many places they keep cats and that you get to
    look in all of them.
    

    They know me pretty well at Santa Clara Humane Society since I've been
    coming in every 3-5 days since October.  They usually take me through
    the adoption rooms, the holding rooms and the hospital.  However, I
    will make it a point to ask where the cats from 1035 Meridian are being
    held.
    
    Jan

    Went by SCHS and did find one cat from the complex.  Black and white
    kitty was trapped.  I believe her babies are old enough that her being
    gone won't be too much of a problem for them.  The manager said that 
    they also took in a black kitten.  I didn't see that one but some of
    the addresses are hard to read or have been left blank.
    
    I went by the complex tonight and the two red tabby kittens and tortie
    kitten are still there.  Gray kitty is still there too.  I would have
    thought she'd be the first to go.  Too friendly for her own good.  I 
    was able to feed and pet one of the red babies.  I also lifted him up
    for a minute.  If I had a place to put him I'd take him home right now.
    Anyone up for fostering?  I'm probably going to go back in a few
    minutes and take more food for the others.  I was also able to find a
    working faucet and filled a couple of bowls of water for them.  Red
    friendly kitten drank a bunch.  I could swear this was one of Squeaks
    babies...same squeaky meow.  I still haven't seen her.
    
    The other kittens are pretty wild but they seem to be associating me
    with food at this point.  When I walked over to the couch area they're
    hiding in they ran at first then peaked out to look and then approached
    within a few feet of me.  Unfortunately, I had given what dry food I
    had in the car to the other red kitten.  I'm currently at home to
    change, collect fancy feast and a carrier and head back over.  My
    meeting was canceled at the last minute.  
    
    Problem is, I don't know what to do with them even if I can get close 
    enough to sneak them into a carrier.  I'm totally maxed out here.  I 
    don't even have quarantine space to keep them in until they can be 
    checked for bugs and diseases.
    
    Jan (who still doesn't have a clue what she's going to do now)
       
    

    Went back to the complex this evening.  Squeak Too and gray kitty
    were nowhere to be found.  Instead Pixie (mostly black tortie female
    tiny kitten) and Dixie (red classic tabby ? tiny kitten) were hanging
    around where I had last left Squeak Too.  They recognized me and didn't
    run too far.  They were thrilled when I put the food down but wouldn't
    come near it until I backed off. [BTW, I named them Pixie and Dixie not
    because they look alike but because they seem to travel together.  No
    matter where they are, by the couches or in back of the building,
    they're together.]
    
    Off in the distance I spotted a little brown tabby and white kitty
    looking at us.  He/she wouldn't come within 1/2 a block of me.  If I so
    much as moved his/her direction she (seems like a she) took off.  I put
    some food down by the couches since I saw her head that direction.  On
    my way out of the complex I startled and adult cat coming out of an
    open apartment [all white (dirty) with tabby markings on her head and
    tail].  I circled around to put myself between her and the street so 
    she wouldn't run that direction out of fear of me.  Then I took a step 
    towards her.  She ran in the direction of the couch area which was what 
    I wanted her to do.  I peaked around the building and saw little b/w tabby 
    kitten eating.  Adult cat was standing next to her.  When she saw me
    she crouched and stared at me.  She was not going to drop her guard to
    eat while I was anywhere around.  I decided it was time to go so she
    would eat.  If she's caught she may not come around.  She seems quite
    wild and if that kitten is hers, she's taught it well.       
    
    So, I'm empty handed.  No kittens came home with me this time.
    
    My poor neighbor.  I had called to let him know I was on a kitty
    mission at my old complex.  Unfortunately, he wasn't home.  I was
    hoping to get him to go for a security blanket.  As it was I took the
    cell phone and pager with me.  Anyway, he came home about the time I
    left the complex and went to my mom's.  Apparently, he made several
    trips over there looking for me and wondering if I was okay. (This is
    the same guy who hung out on the patio trying to figure out how to get
    Mac back inside when he realized he was out...he's also been party to
    a few of my other kitty crises.)  He left two messages on my machine. 
    I should have thought to call him.  I left a message letting him know I
    was okay and giving my apologies.
    
    Jan 
    
    P.S.  I keep going on with this because it helps me focus and it's good 
          for me to share this with someone.  If everyone is sick of
          hearing about it, please...let me know.
     

    Oh Jan...please continue to keep us updated, I don't think
    anyone is sick of hearing about the rescue attempts on these
    cats/kittens.  I just wish I wasn't so darn far away....
    
    Sandy 

    >I just wish I wasn't so darn far away....
    
    Believe me...I wish you weren't so darn far away too. :^)
    
    BTW, does anyone in this file live in the Campbell area?  I'm thinking
    that if I can get my hands on the kittens I would prefer to take them
    to the West Valley Shelter in Campbell.  Unfortunately, to do that I
    need a Campbell address.  These folks know me but I don't think they'd
    be able to make an exception for me.  This shelter is less crowded and
    they'd have more of an opportunity to work with the kittens.
    
    Jan

    Well, I have been banned from going to the apartment complex again.
    The animal control officer called and said the construction people
    have accused me of stealing a trap and releasing a cat.  I hope you
    folks know me well enough to know that I would never do anything like
    that.
    
    I told the officer that I was there last night while the manager was
    there.  That he saw me working with the kitten I was trying to catch. 
    I only saw a couple of other construction people there and one guy who
    had permission to keep his cat in the vacant apartment overnight.  I
    did not see any traps out nor did I see a cat in a trap.  
    
    I called the manager and talked to him and told him what happened.  I
    let him know that I would never do that and I just wanted to catch the
    one kitten I thought could be tamed.  He said if they get a red tabby
    kitten in a trap they will call me and let me come check on him. 
    Unfortunately, there are at least 2-3 of them there.  
    
    Needless to say, I am really upset and angry.  I could just scream and
    I have nowhere to vent my anger at the moment.  Sheesh, I'm trying to
    get the cats caught too I can't imagine why they think I would do that.
    The manager is going to talk to the construction guy.  I made him
    promise not to give him my name or number.  I hope he holds to his
    promise.  He said if they find the cat he will call me.  That still
    puts me in a bad situation.  I would have to go there and possibly be
    confronted by these people while I checked on the cat.  For pete's
    sake, the animal control officer was alluding to law suits, etc. 
    
    God, the things I do for cats!
    
    Jan

    Jan.....was in one of the construction people who claims
    you stole a trap/cat or is it the Animal Control Officer????
    
    I find it hard to believe a construction person would give
    two *&^% about the traps or the cats, and maybe the animal
    control officer doesn't want you around because he believes
    you are attempting to save the cats and he ONLY has one thing
    in mind and that is to capture them and put them to sleep.
    
    Geesshhh....Jan I feel so bad for you.
    
    Sandy 

    It was the construction person I originally talked to that told the
    animal control officer that I stole the trap and released the cat.  
    Of course, this is the same guy who lead me to believe that they were 
    going to kill the cats rather than trap them and take them to the 
    humane society.  I have no idea what his problem is.  I am at the point
    now that I wouldn't believe a word he says even if he was hooked to a
    lie detector.  However, the animal control officer does not have this
    same experience with him.  It's a matter of his word against mine.
    
    I get the feeling he wants me off the property due to insurance reasons
    and is making up this story to get what he wants.  I am now banned from 
    the property.  Guys, I have a strong need to help these cats but I also 
    have a strong self-preservation instinct.  I do not want to antagonize 
    anyone enough to make them send animal control after me.  Afterall, I 
    am severely over the local limit for cats with my crew.
    
    They tell me they'll let me know if red tabby boy gets picked up,
    however, I don't think these people would know a red tabby kitten if it
    bit them in the butt.
    
    I think the best thing to do at this point is to let this die a quiet
    death.  I will not push them into taking action against me.  I will
    continue to check at the humane society and see if I can determine what
    the cats' fate will be.  I'm hoping some of them will be tame enough to
    hang around and get adopted instead of being euthanized.
    
    This is so annoying though because over the last five years I have
    spent quite a bit of time and money (some of it from FELINErs) to take
    in, clean up, test, vaccinate, spay/neuter and place cats from this
    complex in a good home.  I am not part of the problem.  I am trying to
    be part of the solution.
    
    Jan

    
    Can you drop a quiet word to your local newspaper?  You've definitely
    gone above and beyond for those cats, and that construction person is
    being a jerk 8^/.
    

    I'm thinking I probably shouldn't have dropped a quiet word to Animal
    Control while researching the trapping company.  That surely pissed
    someone off.
    
    Jan

    I cannot believe this.  I got home tonight to find a message from the
    construction guy on my phone.  I did not give him my last name.  I did
    not give him my home phone number.  I left wondering how the heck he
    got it.  In the message he mentions that I've been coming on the
    property when no one was there.  That's not true.  When I've come on
    the property there have been people there.
    
    He goes on to say that the trapping company he hired (odd, I thought
    the manager hired them) is missing stuff.  He wanted me to call him. 
    Unfortunately, I did.  I left a rather annoyed message on the answering
    machine.
    
    I said that I didn't know how he had gotten my number but I didn't want
    him to call me there again.  I said the manager asked me not to come on
    the property again and that I would honor that request.  I told him
    that I didn't take anything, didn't touch anything that wasn't mine and
    never release any cats from traps.  I told him the only thing I did do
    was try to get close to one of the kittens and I failed.
    
    I was on a roll by this time and also spouted off about how over the
    past 4-5 years I have taken upwards of 15 cats out of this complex,
    took them to the vet, had them spayed and neutered with my own money
    (sorry guy but I didn't give you the credit you deserve on that one)
    and placed them in homes.  I told him I was not part of the problem I
    was trying to be part of the solution and that I resented his implying
    that I had taken anyone's property.
    
    Boy, I wish I'd have thought this through first.  Now it's on tape for
    posterity.  Unfortunately, my little machine got to erase before I got
    to the save button during my tirade.  I don't have his call on tape any
    more.  I sure hope this is the end of this.  I will not return any further 
    calls and if he calls again I will look into what I can do to protect 
    myself.  With contacts and the Police Department I should be able to 
    figure this out...somehow.
    
    Jan     

    Okay, I've calmed down now.  The voice of reason (sister Jo) has
    stepped in and reminded me that they can't prove anything cuz I
    didn't do anything.  It's their word against mine.  The plan now 
    is to under react instead of over reacting from here on out.
    
    Besides if they continue to call after I've asked the to cease and
    desist...it's harrassment.  I won't be responding to any further calls.
    End of story (I hope).
    
    Jan 
    

    You have a huge amount of evidence that you are a devoted cat rescuer -
    this notes file! Plus you've left a detailed trail of your activities
    in here. People who are out to steal don't call the immediate universe
    to find someone to trap cats humanely. There's tons of proof that
    you're a devoted cat rescuer and nothing to prove you're a miscreant of
    any form. The construction person must be looking for a scapegoat for
    something that went wrong and has mistakenly picked you. I'd stay away
    from the site because people like that can be dangerous. You'll have to
    rely on the authorities and Animal Control people to look after those
    kitties, unfortunately. We need you around to look after all the other
    kitties you will encounter in the future!
    
    We're all behind you and every one of us is prepared to mail the
    results of our litter pan cleanings to the construction fellow if he
    starts bothering you. 
    
    Keep up the good work!
    regards,
    Sari

    
    	I've got an update to my note (515.399).  The old guy who feeds
    the grey cat didn't know the people abandoned the cat so he's now
    going to take him in.  He's going to take the cat to the vets and
    have him checked out and get his shots!  I'm glad there are nice
    people still out there!
    
    	Jan, hang in there, someday you will be rewarded for all the
    good things you've done and are still doing.  Maybe the construction
    worker knows of some illegal activity going on and doesn't want you
    to discover it! (sounds like a movie)  We're all praying for you and
    the kitty's.
    
    				Sue

    Jan, you might call the whatsis pest company and explain what's
    been going on.  They may be reasonable people.  it sounds
    like the construction guy is just a nut out to cause trouble.
    I wouldn't be surprised if he took any traps himself.
    

    Thanks for the support guys...I really needed it.  At this point I'm
    trying to let this whole thing die down.  I don't want my blood
    pressure and heart rate to rise over this again.  Unfortunately, it's
    all I can think about.  
    
    I stayed away from the complex last night.  Made a trip to the humane
    society and still only saw the original two cats (yep, I found the
    black kitten) that were trapped.  No new arrivals from the complex yet.
    I went home after that and have records indicating I was there (in case
    they try to pull something else with me).  I placed a phone call to my
    sister (phone records) and chatted with a neighbor.  I also have the
    records that indicate I dialed in from home.  (Nope, I'm not paranoid...
    not a bit. :^)
    
    I fully expected to get another phone call this morning from that guy
    (after my irate message) but he didn't call when I was home.  Perhaps 
    he'll honor my request and not call.  I did what I could over there I 
    guess I can't do any more from here on out.  I really can't risk
    pissing them off more than I apparently have already.  I live too close
    to them for comfort.
    
    It's so weird about the traps too.  I remember thinking it was odd that
    I didn't see traps out last time I was there.  It was the best time of
    day to catch cats too, that time just before the sun goes down when
    things have cooled off.  There were at least 5 of them out then.
    
    Oh well, I guess I'll have to practice the Scarlett O'Hara method of
    dealing with this...I'll think about that tomorrow.
    
    Jan
    
    

The newspaper suggestion in .163 sounds like a good idea to me.
At the least, you/the Humane Society might get some volunteers 
to foster-house the cats that are trapped.  People really respond
to animals-in-distress stories (at least, in New England they certainly
have...).

Good luck!

-- Nina

    Things have been very quiet on this today.  i'm hoping they stay that
    way.  At last check the home message machine was blank.  I can't go by
    the humane society today because they're closed to all but incoming
    animals while they do staff training.  Will check in with them again
    tomorrow.
    
    Jan

    I went by Santa Clara Humane Society today.  The Lost & Found Coordinator
    (Jane) was there and she saw me and offered to take me through the
    cages.  She'd been on vacation for a while and wanted to tell me about
    it.  I told her the story of the apartment complex and trapping.  She
    was really understanding about my need to verify the cats were making
    it into the shelter.   
    
    In Room B we found a tortie kitten that came from Meridian/Willow area.
    My old complex is 1035 Meridian right near Willow.  They're not even
    bothering to put the full address anymore.  This could have been one
    of the Pixie & Dixie (I forgot which was which) kittens.  I couldn't be
    sure since I hadn't seen them up close for very long.  In room B cage 
    #100 I found gray kitty (Impound #103997).  She seemed to recognize me 
    right away.  She stood up and rubbed the cage and meowed.  Her card said 
    Meridian/Willow too.  Jane was checking all the cages for Meridian/
    Willow on the cards.  Before she went off to do that she unlocked gray
    kitty's cage so I could touch her and pet her.  Gray kitty was loving
    it.  At one point Jane got all excited and took gray kitty's card over
    to room B to compare with tortie kitten.  They came in on the same day
    at different times (she noted).  She decided they had to have been from
    the same complex.  I was pretty sure by looking at tortie kitty that
    she was one of the ones I had fed. 
    
    Jane said that if I wanted to I could put a 10 day hold on gray kitty.
    They wouldn't do anything with her then for 10 days.  She's currently
    on 3 day hold.  She said tell them you recognize the cat and think you
    know the owner.  Lie if you have to.  People do it all the time.  I 
    couldn't believe she was telling me this.  Gray kitty came in on the 
    10th.  They don't count the 1st day.  Her 3 days are up on the 14th
    1st thing in the morning.  Then if she passed health check she'd go 
    into adoptions.  I still have time to decide what to do with her.  I 
    have no place to put her and no one clammoring for a cat at this time
    though.  She's so sweet I think she would find a home if she made it to
    adoptions.  If she doesn't pass health check she'll be euthanized. 
    Unfortunately, if I was doing this through my own vet there'd probably
    be the same outcome if she tested positive for FELV and/or FIV unless
    I quickly found a home with someone who wouldn't mind that she tested
    positive.  So, I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
    
    No red tabby kitties found yet.  Black and white kitty was still in the
    hospital area.  She's not looking any happier than she did the first
    day.  She's hanging out as far back in her cage or in her litter box as
    she can get.  Her cage card is missing.  Jane says that's not a good
    sign.  If they can't find her cage card they can't move her into
    adoptions.  I'm not sure she's adoptable at this point anyway.  She's
    still looking somewhat wild and scared.
    
    Black kitten was not in the hospital room anymore and I don't remember
    seeing him in the other holding rooms.  Jane says it's possible he was
    only in the hospital room because he was too young and that he got
    fostered out.  This would be great because his chances of taming down
    would be much better with someone handling him.  
    
    At this point she started encouraging me to talk to the foster
    coordinators (this topic originally was brought up while I was petting
    gray kitty).  She says they provide all the food and medicine (if
    necessary) while you're fostering.  When I asked if there were any
    special requirements for fostering she said you just needed to have
    some place to keep the cats.  I'm sure there must be more to it than
    that.  I told her if I fostered they'd have to be in among my cats and
    she assured me that they health checked them first and that would help
    narrow the possibility of my exposing my cats to nasty things like FELV.  
    Anyway, I'm considering it.  If you foster for them you keep the kittens 
    until they're about 8 weeks old and old enough to be in the adoptions 
    area.  Then you bring them back for the HS to adopt out.  It would be 
    great if I could get them to give me red tabby boy if/when he shows up 
    or tortie girl (I'd have to move fast on her).  The advantage to this
    would be that I would be able to do my part in helping the kitten/cat
    situation with less risk of my ending up with 76 cats.  I would have to
    give them back instead of calling them my fosters for the next 15 years
    of their lives (apologies to Ashlar, Joey and Dolly). :^)  
    
    Well now that I'm finished with the apartment complex kitties I have to
    tell you this one other thing.  When I was in room B my heart skipped a
    beat.  There in one of the cages was the spitting image of my beautiful
    Bailey cat (RIP).  She was the closest thing I'd seen in a long time to
    the color Bailey was.  Some of her facial markings were just too close.
    I wish I'd had a picture of Bailey with me to compare to her.  If I had 
    my own place I would have said she was my cat and I was here to reclaim 
    her and take her home.  I can't even put into words how seeing her 
    affected me.  It was downright eerie how she resembled Bailey.  She 
    seemed like the sweetest of cats too.  I couldn't begin to tell you if 
    she had Bailey's candy bar personality (50% sweetness, 50% nuts) in that 
    short time we visited but it'd be worth it to me to find out. 
    
    Makes me wish I'd budgeted better over the years so that I could have 
    bought my own place by now.
    
    BTW, as of today there have been no further phone calls exchanged with
    the lunatic^C^C I mean construction guy. :^)
    
    Jan  
                                                          
    

    New project in the works.  This adorable little waif has shown up in
    the complex.  She's got the sweetest little face.  She's brown tabby 
    on top with white underneath.  I say "she" but I haven't been able to
    get a good look.  She just looks like a she to me.  She appears to be
    somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-6 months old.
    
    I've been calling her Priscilla (aka Pris kitty, Prissy and Miss
    Priss).  I've been working on getting close to her.  In the last couple
    of days I've gotten within 2 feet of her while she's eating.  Last
    night I actually stroked her back while she was eating.  The first time
    she ran a few feet away and then approached cautiously to eat again. 
    The second time she got into it and actually arched her back into the
    stroke.  Then she realized what I was doing and freaked and ran again.
    I couldn't get close enough to touch her again after that.
    
    Mystic (the patio kitty my neighbor and I share custody of) seems to be
    taking care of her.  Either that or Priscilla just won't let Mystic out
    of her sight.  I noticed that Mystic is really good with her but
    sometimes she just wants to be left alone.  She tells me you can only 
    take a kitten playing with your ears, feet and tail and chasing you 
    around for so long before losing a little patience.  Especially if said 
    kitten is not one of your own.  (Since Mystic is spayed this was
    definitely not one of hers.)  
    
    I think the only reason I'm getting so close so soon is because 
    Priscilla sees Mystic coming up to me, eating on my patio, etc.
    
    I'll be looking for a good home for this one soon so everyone check
    with neighbors, friends and relatives for a potential home. :^)  Of
    course, it would work best if that home was in the San Jose, CA area.
    
    Jan

    I took a fancy feather toy out to play with Priscilla last night.
    She loved it.  I was able to get really close to her but not to
    touch her yet.  At one point she stopped playing and was resting...
    on my shoe.  She had her front feet and chest laying on my shoe.
    I was too amazed.  However, when I tried to touch her with my hand
    she moved a few feet away each time.  
    
    This is great progress in a short time.  Unfortunately, I'm going on
    vacation for 5 days and won't be able to continue this till I get
    back.  I hope she's still hanging around when I come back and that
    no one in the complex gets a bug to "get rid of" her.  I've let me
    neighbor know that I'm working with her.  When he knew I was working
    with Mystic he made a point of letting people know "hands off" Mystic
    when they talked about trapping cats.  I'm hoping he'll do the same 
    for Priscilla.
    
    Oops, I gotta go call my cat care person to make sure I'm covered for
    vacation.  I knew I forgot something.
    
    Jan                                   

    Priscilla is still hanging out on the patio.  When I came out this
    morning she was by the food.  She seems to hang around under the table
    and chairs I have there.  Even when Mystic is not around, Priscilla is.
    
    I still haven't gotten a good look to be sure Priscilla is the right
    name for her.  She may end up being called Presley or something close
    to Priscilla if she turns out to be a boy.  She already knows her name
    so I can't change it too much.
    
    I've made my cat sitter aware of Priscilla's presence and have asked
    her to keep an eye out for her.  She said she'd be happy to do it
    since she's already feeding Mystic.  She's spending a lot of time on my
    patio now so she should be easy to find.
    
    Jan
                           

    I'm back from vacation and Priscilla is still hanging around.  My
    neighbor said he went out and looked for her each night because he
    knew he'd be dead if she disappeared. :^)
    
    Unfortunately, I have a new set back in trying to get close to her.
    While I was bringing all my junk in from the car Mac got out the
    door.  He went after the kitten.  She ran and he grabbed her and pulled
    her back on the patio as she was trying to escape.  I screamed to my
    mom to bring me a spray bottle or bowl of water and I tried to get over
    to where they were.  By the time I headed that way the kitten had
    managed to escape.  I was smart enough this time to not try to pick Mac
    up immediately after a fight.  When I saw recognition in his eyes 
    instead of that glazed look I grabbed him and tossed him inside.
    
    I tried to get close enough to Pris to see if he had injured her in
    anyway but she wouldn't let me more than a couple of feet from her.
    I'm keeping an eye on her to be sure there are no lumps or bumps
    popping up form a badly healed cat claw.
    
    The worst of this is that now she is very wary about coming onto the
    patio.  She was there this morning after I put food out but when I
    opened the door she practically flew off the patio.  I'm hoping she'll
    get braver and forget this incident soon.  I'm hoping to be able to put
    Mac in the bubble carrier and take him outside so that she and he can
    see each other and get to know each other while he is confined and
    can't hurt her.  
    
    The strangest part of this is that he ran past Mystic, who was standing
    on the patio too, to attack Priscilla.  For some reason Mystic is okay
    but Pris isn't.  All I can think of is that it must have something to
    do with the length of time Mystic has been hanging around the patio. 
    He has never attacked Mystic.
    
    Jan

    Well...it's definite...Priscilla is really a Presley.  Got a good look
    at those little nubbins last night and Priscilla definitely is a bit
    too feminine for this little guy.
    
    I spent a great deal of time outside last night talking to a neighbor
    and to the cat.  He wouldn't come anywhere near my neighbor but would
    walk up to me and came close enough to sniff my finger and bat at my
    hand.  I also found out that there are at least 4 other neighbors 
    feeding him.
    
    I couldn't get him to come up on the patio to eat last night so I took
    some Fancy Feast Fish and Shrimp Feast down to the bottom of the stairs
    for him.  I sat on the lowest stair and put the bowl about six inches
    from my feet.  He approached cautiously and began to eat and I started 
    petting him.  He'd pull away now and then but he settled into it after 
    a few minutes.  I probably sat there and petted him for a good 10 
    minutes.  He was purring the whole time.  
    
    I took the opportunity to feel around on his body to see if I could 
    detect any injuries Mac might have caused but couldn't feel anything.  
    I checked Mac's claws the other night and most of them were sort of 
    dull (except the dew claws) so maybe he didn't poke any holes.
    
    I'm feeling pretty good about last night's progress.  I was even able
    to appoach the little man after he finished eating to give him a stroke
    or two before he got spooked by someone and ran off.  Now if I could
    find someone to give him a real home and take him in for his vet check
    I'll be all set.  Of course, I have to get to the point with him that I
    can pick him up and put him into a carrier before that vet stuff
    happens but I'm fairly confident he'll be okay with that eventually.  
    I do have the see through bubble carrier that I used for Mystic.  That 
    one doesn't seem quite as much like a confined carrier space as the other
    carriers.
    
    Jan
    

    Great job Jan....   I'm going to a very similar process with a
    stray kitty who I have fed for over 5 months.  I finally made progress
    about 2 weeks ago and got to pet him .  I work with him every night and
    it has worked out so well...that I even cleaned his ears (by myself) the
    other night.   BUT...I have not seen him since I did clean his ears...
    so I think I really peed him off!!!   Hopefully he will be back when
    he is hungry.   
    
    Sandy 

    Well..I found out why I hadn't seen my stray in two days and that
    is because he is hurt.  He showed up last night with a scratch on
    his nose and a very swollen foot which he will not use.   After
    alot of work..I finally got him down in my cellar last night so
    he could spend a night resting, but this was not an easy task since
    he is very skittish and never see the inside of a house.
    
    BUT tonight is the real challenge...we have a vet appointment at
    7:15 and I have no clue how I'll get him in the cat carrier. He
    flipped going in a wide open cellar...I can't imagine what he will
    do in a carrier.   What I did attempt to do is left the open carrier
    in the cellar with a HUGE pile of catnip in it...so hopefully he
    was in the carrier today.  
    
    Wish US luck....
    
    Sandy

    Good luck, Sandy.  Perhaps a bit of smelly cat food will lure him in 
    and with luck he'll be so busy eating he won't notice what's happening.
    
    Jan

    Sandy,
    
    I've been through this before, so long as he is still inside you
    should be ok. The trick is just let him fight/bite/etc. and keep
    focused on putting him into the carrier; DON'T LET GO! You can scream
    with pain AFTER he is in the carrier. 
    
    It sounds painful, but in the long run it is the easist, fastest way.
    The real important thing is that he get to the vet.
    
    Good luck, and keep us posted,
    Deb 

    hmmm...sounds like a GREAT way to spend a Friday night!!!
    Actually he is pretty calm around me...but he just HATES
    to be held and hates to be confined.
    
    I'll get him there...no matter what!!  I've had cat bites
    from strays that caused blood poisioning (red_line) so he
    won't stop me!!!  
    
    I'll keep you posted.....
    
    Sandy 

    If you have any leather gloves you might want to use 'em. :^)
    
    When I first got Mac he was very agressive.  He'd bite every 
    time I'd take him out or put him in the Tokyo cage he had to 
    live in till he and Onyx accepted each other.  I started using 
    my leather workout gloves to handle him.  They are the kind 
    that are cut off at the fingertips so your fingers show through.
    He was a biter at first and when he'd try to bite through those
    gloves it didn't work.  It was then that the balance of power
    turned in my favor as he discovered I was no longer afraid of
    him.
    
    How I wish I'd have put those gloves on before trying to break up
    that cat fight last November.  It would have saved me 4 hours of
    time in the emergency room.  Ah well, we live and learn.
    
    Jan                                                   

    Well the little stray Briggs has been to the Vets and is now
    back home recuperating.    Friday night he surprised
    the heck out of me by just walking in the cat carrier
    and he was pretty calm at the vets too!!!   His bad leg
    was caused from a cat bite and since they had to keep
    him there to check out the bite and put a drain in it...
    we decided he also should be neutered at the same time.
    
    So he has a drain in the bottom of his foot, he has been
    neutered, checked/treated for mites/worms, tested for
    Felv/Fiv (negative), had his booster and 1st Felv vaccine.
    The only thing they could not do was to give him his
    Rabie shot.  Massachussetts state law says that if the
    cat has a bite wound of unknown origin...you cannot
    give him a rabie shot for 5 months.   
    
    He came back home on Saturday and spent the 1st night in
    my bathroom because he was still a bit groggy...and now
    he is resting VERY comfortabley in my cellar.  He has made
    himself at home...and come to find out he is a little
    love bug who LOVES to give head butts and rub his face
    all over yours.   Tis amazing that this little nut was
    so skittish that I couldn't get near him for the last
    5 months....
    
    Once he has recuperated....my intention is to find him
    a wonderful home where he no longer has to worry about
    survival.    
    
    Sandy
    
    

    
    Great job Sandy, it is so rewarding when you get love/head butts 
    from them. 
    
    Shaw

    YEA!!!   
    
    Deb
    

    Great news!!
    
    Karen and her horde.
    

    Still working on Presley.  He's beginning to trust me and my neighbor. 
    We sat outside with him last night for a while.  I petted him while he
    ate some Fancy Feast Fish and Shrimp.  I can pet him while he eats but
    not at any other time.  He will reach out and bat at my hand but won't
    let me touch him unless he's eating.  I lifted him up a couple of
    inches while he was eating last night.  He freaked a little bit but
    when I put him down he came right back to eat and let me pet him again. 
    He purrs the entire time.  
    
    Dave (my neighbor) was playing with Presley and Presley seems
    comfortable with him.  Funny, Dave is such a big guy and Presley is so 
    small.  But, Dave sat on the ground and played with Presley through one 
    of the bushes.  Presley would stalk his hand and would bat at it.  He's 
    so gentle, no claws in use most of the time although Dave did catch a
    claw at least once.
    
    We were really surprised when we got up to go inside and he followed us
    up onto the patio.  He settled down on the top step and sat there and 
    looked at us with the completely content expression on his face.  He
    was even doing the squinty eye thing with me when I would look at him.
    This is great because I haven't been able to get him on the patio for
    more than a few seconds since the night Mac got out and attacked him.
    
    I think Mystic is a little jealous of the time we're investing in the
    new kitten.  She's used to being the center of attention when we're
    outside.  She seems to be handling it okay most of the time but there
    are times when it seems more obvious.  And, Presley has definitely
    adopted her as his adult cat role model.  We're seeing a lot of Mystic's
    traits showing up in Presley lately.  This is actually a good thing. 
    He couldn't have picked a better role model.  Mystic has that complex
    completely wired.  She's an extremely street smart cat.  
    
    Jan
                                                        

    I'm petting him almost any time I want now!!!  This is too cool.  He's
    been very quick to trust.  Although if he sees my hand coming he backs
    off a bit.  He's better if I catch him from behind.
    
    This morning I picked him up while he was eating and held him 6-8 inches 
    off the ground and petted his head.  He let me do it without struggling 
    for a few minutes.  Won't be long now till he's headed to the vet for 
    testing and tutoring.
    
    If the worst possible thing should happen and he should test positive
    for FELV is there anyone who knows anyone that would take a FELV
    positive kitten in?  If not, I'll have to put him to sleep since I have
    no place to put him and I won't be able to leave him outside.  
    
    Of course, the hope is that he'll test negative and this won't be an 
    issue at all.  Now I just have to finish getting him used to being 
    picked up and put in a carrier and then all that's left is the gathering 
    of the vet money.  Since I covered all of Mystic's expenses I'm going to 
    see if my neighbor (who seems to have all the fun with Mystic and none of 
    the expense even though she's wearing a tag that says he's her owner) will
    help me cover the little guy's costs.
    
    Jan
    

    Don't forget the FIV test.
    

    Will catch that too.  The Cat Hospital does a combination FELV/FIV
    test.  If I catch them on a slow day I can get the results within
    20-30 minutes instead of 2-3 days.  They did that for Mystic when
    I took her in.  
    
    Jan

    Last night I picked Presley up and walked over to the window where Mac
    was meowing and let them have a look at each other.  Mac seemed very
    interested in Presley.  Presley seemed very interested in getting the
    heck out of there.  He didn't really struggle much to get down
    actually.  Mac had a good sniff and I'm hoping the more he sees and
    gets to know Presley the less inclined he'll be to slip out of the
    house and try to attack him.
    
    While I was carrying Presley around the patio I looked over and saw one
    of my neighbors across the way sitting on his patio.  He noticed I had
    Presley in my hands and said he knew it was only a matter of time
    before that happened.  He said I went at it with so much determination
    that he knew the little guy didn't stand a chance of staying a wild
    boy.  He probably thinks I'm nuts anyway.  His patio is right across
    from mine and he's always getting an ear full about my cats and from my
    cats.  He can see them sitting in the window from his place and I've
    introduced him to a few of them from across the patio.
    
    A little later I went out on the patio cuz I thought I heard a cat
    fight and wanted to make sure neither Mystic or Presley were involved.
    One of my neighbors (Beverly), who also feeds the kitten, called out 
    that he was over with her.  She was all excited that she had been able 
    to pet him.  So, now I know that he's trusting more people.  This is a 
    good sign.  If he'll trust other people then his chances of going to a 
    good home are that much better.
    
    Guess all that's left is to make the vet appointment.  Oh, and I could
    try bathing him but I think that's going to take a little more trust
    than I've earned so far.  He may never forgive me after a bath.  I
    think maybe I'll save that for if/when he goes to an indoor home. 
    He'll just get dirty again quickly otherwise...especially since his
    favorite place to play is in one of the flower pots.
    
    Jan

    I'm such a proud kitty mom.  I picked Presley up and carried him around
    like a baby yesterday.  The whole time I was rubbing his head and neck. 
    He appeared to be in totally kitty bliss.  He let me do this for 15-20
    minutes before he struggled to get free.  It is my opinion (biased as
    it is) that the only reason he decided to get down is because human
    traffic on the sidewalk was picking up and he didn't know those people
    who kept walking by and stopping to look at him.
    
    Jan

    Great job Jan....you have completly reached his heart!!!  It is
    amazing how you think some kitties are completely feral because
    of they way they originally act, but in reality they are just 
    VERY afraid of humans and have lost the faith.  It just takes
    a kind person, a little love and alot patience to win the faith back!!!
    
    My little stray, Briggs was so afraid of us for 6 months where he
    would not even come on the porch when we were there.  But now he's
    all over us and gives us head-butts and all!!!!  His foot is fine
    now and he's not even limping.  
    
    Sandy 

    Boy, am I ever jealous !!!  I have been working with Little Mama for
    over a year now and she still doesn't let me pick her up.  Actually she
    lets me pick her up for about 2 seconds if she wants food bad enough. 
    She loves my petting her and looks for me through my kitchen window. 
    She comes running when I call her and notices when my car is *finally*
    in the driveway.  Oh well,  it's still better than it was a year ago.  
    
    It took me forever (almost 8 years) to tame Beauty so I won't give up
    on Little Mama.  I read Sandy's note about the trip to the vet for the
    wounded leg and it reminded me of Beauty's first trip.  He came to me
    with a wound on his cheek the first time which I took care of and when
    he came to me the second time with a wound in his leg, I put him in the
    carrier and brought him to the vet.  I warned them that I had a feral
    cut but he was such a gentleman that they thought I was joshing.
    
    Sandi mom to 8 IS DEFINITELY ENOUGH  !!
    

    I have to admit that Presley has been a lot easier to deal with than I
    expected.  It occurs to me that he may not have been wild so much as
    he was just wary of people.
    
    I was holding him in baby position again last night when one of the
    neighbors who has been feeding him walked by.  The guy asked me if I
    was holding the wild kitten.  When I said yes he was totally amazed.
    I continued to hold Presley and let the guy pet him.  I didn't get too
    much struggle out of him after the guy found Presley's good head and
    neck petting spots.  I'm starting to poll neighbors for a potential 
    home.  Of course the ones that said they'd take him if he were not wild
    probably figured he wouldn't be tamed and they'd be off the hook.  I 
    don't think they were expecting this to happen so quickly.
    
    Jan

I am also envious, but glad it's worked out so well for you Jan! I've had Gypsy
going on three years and can't touch him...

Laura

    Well, I goofed this weekend.  I made the mistake of trying to take
    Presley inside to clean the dirt off his face.  Got him into the
    bathroom and let go.  BIG MISTAKE!!  He totally flipped out.  He was
    literally climbing the walls.  I felt so bad.  It took me a while to
    get close enough to scruff him so I could take him outside again.  
    I haven't been able to touch him since then.
    
    I hope he forgets soon.  The next part of this process is going to be
    getting him used to being in something.  I'll probably take the bubble
    carrier outside (when I can touch him again) and try putting him in
    there to see how he handles it.  If that works I'll take him inside in
    the bubble carrier.  It's going to be a long process.  But, it has to
    be done if I'm going to get him to the vets and still be able to handle
    him when we get there.
    
    So...I'm convinced he's a wild boy instead of just wary of people. 
    He's either never been inside or he's had bad experiences being inside.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  Laura, it's a shame Gypsy won't let you touch him.  I guess 
          sneaking up and petting him from behind while he's eating is
          totally out of the question.  Wouldn't want you to get slashed.
          I've been fortunate that this has worked with so many of my 
          wild ones.
    

    Jan, I've had "stray" kitties completely freak out when
    I first lured them inside.  My Tommy, who I later found out had
    been abandoned by a tenant across the street did this.  It took several
    days and tuna :-) to lure him back to the doorstep even.  So, I
    wouldn't assume that this is a huge setback with Presley.
    

    Well, I'll get the Fancy Feast Shrimp and Fish out again.  He's
    come close to me but hasn't allowed me to touch him again.  He
    sits on the staircase and looks up at me while I'm out there trying
    lure him up.  He's come over to eat at the food bowls but if I so
    much as move he runs.  However, I'm a persistant kitty mom and I 
    think we'll have this worked out soon even if I have to use up my
    whole stash of Fancy Feast in the process. :^)
    
    Jan

>    P.S.  Laura, it's a shame Gypsy won't let you touch him.  I guess 
>          sneaking up and petting him from behind while he's eating is
>          totally out of the question.  Wouldn't want you to get slashed.
>          I've been fortunate that this has worked with so many of my 
>          wild ones.
 

Jan,

It's impossible to sneak up on Gypsy, but he's definitely not a slasher...he's
a sissy!!  He'll lick baby food off my finger, but if I even *move* a finger
to scratch him under the chin, he spooks.  I've been able to get a few pats in
when he was absorbed with eating and had his back turned to me.  He loves to
rub against my legs when I'm cooking, cuz he knows he's going to get treats,
but I can't reach down and pet him, he takes off in a flash!  He does play
with me though!  Once I managed to get him in my arms when he was looking out
the window and he didn't try to bite or scratch, just wriggled out of my arms.
He's a great wriggler!  He's the most submissive cat I've ever seen, doesn't 
have a defensive streak in him!  If he ever comes around I'm sure he'll be one
of the seetest cats I've ever known!

I wish you could come visit, you'd probably have him tamed in no time!

Laura

P.S. I'm sure Presley will trust you again soon!  We had to catch Gypsy to take
him to the vets, and had a little backslide because of it, he wouldn't take
food from us.  A few weeks later he was back to normal!

   

    Jan...keep trying.  My stray, Briggs flipped when I put him 
    in the cellar for the first time...and NOW I can't get him
    out of there.  He thinks it's home...and doesn't even want
    to go outside anymore.
    
    Sandy 

    I was able to pet Presley last night for the first time since
    the "bathroom incident".  He was still very wary though.  It
    took some Fancy Feast Trout to get his attention.
    
    He's so cute.  Even though he won't come close to me if I don't
    have food, he'll sit at the bottom of the stairs and look up at
    me with that squinty-eyed content look.
    
    Laura, I sure wish I could come visit Gypsy too.  I doubt that
    I'd have any better luck than you have though.  You've been 
    around him for 5 years.  That counts for an awful lot.  He'd 
    probably be just a blur as he high-tailed it out of my range. :^)
    
    Jan

Gee Jan, that didn't take long at all!

I've had Gypsy going on 3 years (Nov. 15).  Actually, he won't even come out
if there's a stranger in the house.  He looks out the window when he hears
anyone approaching and scrams if the person is unknown to him!  There are
only 2 people he comes out for, myself and my boyfriend!

Laura

    I'm happy to report that I was able to pick Presley up and hold him
    like a baby again last night.  Of course, this was after spending 20
    minutes walking around the complex trying to find him.  He wasn't near
    the apartment when I got home.  That's strange because he's almost
    always 12-18 inches behind Mystic.  
    
    I walked around calling his name and didn't get any response.  I was
    beginning to worry that he'd wandered somewhere he shouldn't have or
    that some thing had happened to him.  I was standing near my staircase
    wondering what to do next when the little monster came out from under a
    neighbors gate and proceeded to stretch.  Apparently he was asleep on
    my neighbors patio or something and couldn't be bothered to make a
    little noise so I'd know he was okay.  He stood there for a minute with
    his back to me and I walked towards him expecting him to run at the
    last second as he's been doing.  But, he let me pick him up and hold
    him for a while.  I think he was still too asleep to remember to get
    out of my way.
    
    So, it appears that things are back to normal around my place at last.
    
    Jan

    I had a little petting session with Presley this morning.  I was a
    bit late for work but he was such a love bug that I couldn't resist
    taking the time.  He was rubbing my legs and propping himself up on
    his hind legs to reach his nose up to my face.  I noticed he's growing 
    in two new whiskers (one on each side) and he's got the coolest copper 
    eyes.  His nose is still dirty but I'm going to have to work on being
    able to bring him inside for that.  The other thing I noticed is that
    is fur is starting to feel less coarse and more silky.  Must be the 
    regular healthy meals.  I'm making a vet appointment for Onyx and 
    Carrie for 9/13 or 14.  I'm hoping to take Presley in then too.
    
    Now, if I could just get the lady who keeps leaving paper plates full
    of people food on my patio for the cats to knock it off or leave them
    somewhere else I'd be in good shape.  There's nothing worse than having 
    to pick up a paper plate covered in ants and walk it to the dumpter.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  I also need to convince the lady who keeps leaving milk out for
          the cats to switch to Lactaid. :^)
     

    Houston we have a problem!
    
    I've just been informed that the maintenance guy at my apartment 
    complex has been told that if he can catch Presley that he is 
    supposed to "get rid of" him.  I asked what "get rid of" meant and
    he says he'd take him to the pound.  He also mentioned that he was
    able to pick him up today.  
    
    So, I need a home quickly.  I haven't even had a chance to get him
    to the vet.  I was planning to take him when I took my own on the
    13th.  Guess I'll run him in for a FELV/FIV test tomorrow.  
    
    I told the guy I was planning to clean him up and find him a home 
    but it appears I'm running out of time.  I suppose that if he tests
    negative I could try bringing him inside while I try to find a place
    but he freaks out in here (who wouldn't if you were his size and had
    to face 7 full grown cats).  One additional problem with bringing him
    inside...I don't have any more space.
    
    So, does anyone know anyone who wants an adorable, well on his way to
    being a loving companion, cat? 
    
    Jan

    Asked Mike how long he thinks it will take him to catch Presley again.
    He said it would take probably another week and a half. :^)
    
    The pressure is still on...we need a home.  I've put the word out to my
    mom, both sisters and some neighbors.  I'd be happy to get leads from
    other folks on a suitable home.                          
    
    Jan

               <<< MISERY::APPLE$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FELINE.NOTE;1 >>>
           -< Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected >-
================================================================================
Note 4.948                   Cats looking for Homes                   948 of 948
JULIET::CORDES_JA "Eight Tigers on My Couch"         17 lines   7-SEP-1996 14:59
                          -< Presley has a new home >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Re: 4.946
    
    
    Presley has been placed in a new home.  I can only pray to the 
    goddess of felinity that I've made the right choice.  This home
    came up out of the blue after his vet visit on Saturday and they
    wanted to take him immediately.
    
    Boy was this difficult.  I've gotten so attached.  I feel like
    crying.  The new owners have been told that if this doesn't work
    out for any reason at all that I will take him back.
    
    I'll crosspost this to 793 (the rescue topic).  If there are any
    followups to this message please post them there so we don't 
    clutter up the adoption topic.
       
    Jan.  

    Okay, I'm thinking I should put a little detail in here about
    the vet trip and new home.
    
    We headed off to the vet at 10:45 this morning.  I put Presley
    in the carrier and he struggled to get out for a while.  He 
    calmed down in the car and was very good.  They took him in to
    draw blood and he was either totally paralyzed with fear or 
    calm enough that they could handle him.  The new vet (Wendy)
    was great with him.  She went slow and was very gentle so he
    wouldn't freak.  When it came time to weigh him he stood nicely
    on the scale so we could do it.  He weighs 6 pounds.
    
    Wendy had to turn on the tap water to get him to stop purring 
    long enough to hear his heartbeat.  He has earmites and fleas
    but is otherwise very healthy.  
    
    Drumroll please....
    
    He tested negative for FeLV and FIV!!  He has received his first
    FeLV shot and is due for the 2nd in 3 weeks.  He got his 3-in-1 and
    rabies vaccines as well.  He needs to go back for neutering in about
    a month.  I asked if the vet could confirm his age and that I had
    pegged him around 6-8 months.  She says he is about 6 months old.
    He has some adult teeth but still has some baby teeth.
    
    He was sent home with Tresaderm for his ears.  I have given the new
    owners the medicine and instructions as well as info on when he 
    needs to go back to the vet and why.  They will probably have me take
    him in for neutering since I have a free spay neuter certificate.  It
    was issued in my name so I have to be the one to take it in with him.
    
    He lives very close to me.  My neighbor's mother has given him a home
    here in Willow Glen.  I will be able to get updates on how he's doing.
    
    I was very worried about the rather abrupt decision to let him go to
    this home.  This all happened in a rush this morning.  But, I've just
    spoken to Sherry and she says he seems to be settling into his new
    home very nicely.  There is a cat-loving dog there.  This dog used
    to groom his mom's old cat.  Presley walked up nose-to-nose with him
    through the screen door shortly after his arrival and didn't seem to
    have a problem with him at all.  The dog, I'm told, took a look as if
    to say "oh, it's a new cat" and went about his business.  Last seen
    Presley was hanging out on the couch at the new house.  He seems to
    have taken to being an only cat in the house quite nicely.
    
    I want to thank Karen Kolling and Len Fehskens for their generosity
    in helping to cover Presley's ve bill.  These are two very special
    people.
    
    I promised to send Karen and Len pictures of Presley and I hope I can
    still keep that promise even though he was placed before I was able
    to get some film for the camera.  Sherry has promised to take some
    pictures for me and I will happily pass them on when she does.  
          
    Thanks to everyone for their support.  I'm going to go have some lunch
    and try to keep from crying.  I miss the little guy already.  I have
    to learn not to get so attached I guess.
    
    Jan 

    
    I'm so glad he got placed.  He was lucky to have met you.
    

    Dixie, the sister of the kitten with the broken leg that I rescued from 
    the feral colony (remember Eileen?) has disappeared.  I haven't seen her 
    in 11 nights.  She was still living in the feral colony and was growing 
    into a beautiful cat.  I'm very worried about her.
    
    I've checked the Humane Society in case she was trapped and brought in.
    I've also walked around the area calling her name.  Her mother still 
    comes to eat at the colony tree.  I've not noticed any kittie bodies in
    the area near the colony.  However, it is possible she wondered out of 
    the area and was either trapped, hit or taken in by someone.  
    
    It is my greatest hope that someone is taking care of her.  She is a 
    feral cat though and I'm finding it hard to believe she would go to 
    someone on her own.  She would occasionally come within a foot of me or 
    stretch her neck to sniff my finger so it's not a total impossibility, 
    but, she has gotten to know me over the last 8 months.
    
    She is not spayed yet and I've been hoping that maybe she has gone off
    to find a mate.  I know that's not the best thought but it is better
    than thinking she has been killed in some way.  At least if she's alive
    and pregnant there is still hope that I can catch her and take care of 
    the pregnancy (or kittens, if it comes to that).
    
    Eleven days...<sigh>
    
    Jan
    
    

    Jan, I think there is a good chance that someone has given Dixie a
    home, esp. since she sounds like a beautiful cat.  When my neighbors'
    cat went missing awhile back (she was upset because one of her kittens
    had died) it later turned out that she had "moved in" to a house about
    two blocks away and lived on that porch.  The people there gave her
    food and water, but could only slowly get close to her over time.
                              

    I sure hope that is what happened.  Bob (aka Bobcat), the alpha male
    used to try to chase her away when she'd come near the food bowls.  
    Maybe she went somewhere that the food is easier to get to.  Dixie and
    LuLu (her mom) used to be the main kitties at the colony until Bob
    and The Princess moved in and brought their 3 kittens along (Callie,
    Willow and Bob Jr.).  They've pretty much taken over the entire area 
    with the exception of Tortie and Shy Guy's food bowl.  
    
    Hey, I feed 'em, I  name 'em. :^)
    
    Jan (hoping Dixie has found a space to call her own...and that I might
         find out where that is so I'll be sure she's okay)
    
    

Path: ix.netcom.com!news
From: "bobdell" <bobdell@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.rescue
Subject: Red River Flood Animal Rescue
Date: 24 Apr 1997 14:14:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <01bc50b9$7df4d360$22f15ecf@default>
References: <MPLANET.335d7806grandoak989681@news.skypoint.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh18-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Apr 24  7:14:04 AM PDT 1997
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157

I saw this over in rec.pets.dogs.rescue.  I am sure that many readers of
this group are aware of the situation in ND but I have seen nothing yet in
rec.pets.cats.* about the animals caught in the flooding.  So I decided to
pass this on FWIW. 
-- 
Robert E. Pindell, Can Opener, Litter Box Changer 
and sometimes Secretary to Jdger and Di j` vu


Delmont & Laurie Fredricks <grandoak@skypoint.com> wrote in article
<MPLANET.335d7806grandoak989681@news.skypoint.com>...
> 
> As many of you may have heard by now, Grand Forks ND and East Grand Forks

> MN have lost their battle with the spring flooding.  It is the worst 
> flooding ever seen in this area, and is being called the once in 500 year

> flood.
> 
> Both towns have been evacuated as the water has swamped the town, many 
> places over 15 feet deep.  To top it off 11 buildings (~ 25%) of the 
> downtown area burned down because firefighters were unable to reach the 
> fires.  Many fires are breaking out in individual homes that have been 
> vacant because of the mandatory evacuation.
> 
> Because of how quickly the town flooded when the hastily built dikes, 
> many pets were left behind.  They are now trying to rescue those left 
> behind in the haste of the evacuation.  I have been in contact with the 
> Grand Forks Humane Society about the rescue efforts in their flooded 
> city.
> 
> A national emergency organization has stepped in to assist them and they 
> are requesting donations be sent to them in order that it might be 
> efficiently used to help those animals caught in the flooding. You can 
> send your donations to:
> 
> Emergency Animal Rescue Society
> 5892 A South Park Land Drive
> P.O. Box 188890
> Sacramento, CA 95818
> 
> Please feel free to forward this to any list you like as all assistance 
> will be greatly appreciated!!!!!
> 
> Thanks!
> grandoak@skypoint.com
> 

--
jan@netcom.com
..........................................................................
. CAT:  A pigmy lion that loves mice, hates dogs, and patronizes human   .
.       beings.    --Oliver Herford                                      .    
..........................................................................

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% Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:04:51 -0700
% From: jan@netcom.com (Jan A. Cordes)
% Message-Id: <199704250504.WAA15613@netcom21.netcom.com>
% To: jan@netcom.com
% Subject: (fwd) Red River Flood Animal Rescue
% Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.rescue
% Organization: Eight Tigers on My Couch

    My beautiful little feral baby, Willow, is dead.  She was hit by
    a car some time tonight.  I was late with the feeding tonight 
    because I went to spend time with friends.  I thought about going
    by and feeding them early but I didn't do it.  I don't like to feed
    them until it's completely dark because I'm less conspicuous and 
    there seems to be less cars racing down the road when it's dark.
    
    I didn't get there till after midnight.  I found her dead in the 
    road.  It was horrible.  I managed to use a torn up narrow cardboard
    box to slide her out of the middle of the road and then used the 
    same piece of cardboard to scoop her into a box one of the apt.
    residents gave me.  I took her over to the humane society so they
    could take care of the body.  I just couldn't leave her there in 
    the middle of the road to become part of the pavement.  Already 
    another car had gone by and hit her.  I just couldn't stand
    the thought of it happening over and over.
    
    I keep thinking that if I had gone early or on time this might not
    have happened.  Maybe she would have been preoccupied with dinner
    instead of out in the street when that car went by.
     
    Willow was the prettiest kitten.  Everytime I looked at her I was
    amazed at her coloring.  Nature really worked magic on her coat.
    She was sort of gray and cream colored in the gray and cream mixed
    together in sort of a circular/swirl pattern on her sides.  She had
    a little white bib and a little cream color on her feet.  She was
    probably 6 months old now.  When I first found her she couldn't 
    have been more than about 8-12 weeks old and that estimate may be 
    on the high side.  She may have been younger than that.
    
    The first time I saw her she was the tiniest thing.  She was up on
    the brick fence by what I call the cat tree.  It's a spikey leafed
    Yucca type plant.  When I first saw her it appeared something was
    wrong with her eyes.  On closer look I discovered her eyes had a
    lot of goop in them.  She was only able to open one of them part 
    way the other was gooped shut.  I'm not sure how she found her way
    to the wall.  
    
    I had already put food down by the cat tree for the other cats.  I
    wasn't sure she could find her way down there with her eyes in that
    condition so I went back to the car and retrieved the food.  I took a 
    handful and put it on the wall in front of her.  She sniffed for a 
    second and then began gobbling the food down.  It was Science Diet,
    small pellets (kitten sized), good stuff.  She really inhaled it.  So, 
    I put another handful down.  I made sure there was a large pile of 
    food in front of her before I left.  I didn't see her again right away.  
    I checked for her each time I went to the tree.  If she was there on 
    the fence I made sure there was food in front of her.  I only saw her 
    there a couple of times.  One day when I came to feed I saw her moving 
    around rather quickly.  She was climbing around on the fence and on a 
    nearby tree.  When I looked more closely I noticed her eyes where clean 
    and open.  She was doing great.  What a relief.  I was so afraid she 
    would not survive but hadn't beeb able to get to a point where I could
    catch her. 
    
    From then on I'd put food down and watch her climb down the tree to 
    come down and get it.  She appeared to be growing up strong and
    healthy.  It's so sad that she had such a short little life.  I was
    really hoping that when I started trapping I'd be able to catch her,
    get her spayed, tested, vaccinated and then maybe tame her down and
    find her a home.  Unfortunately, that was not in the future for her.
    Her little kitty soul was called home early.  I hope she's in kitty
    heaven and that my beloved Bailey has come to meet her and show her  
    all the wonderful things that wait for her.    
                                  
    Willow was part of "the little family" of feral kitties; The Princess
    was her mom, Bob (aka Bobcat) was her dad, Callie was her sister and
    Bob Jr. (aka Bobaloo) was her brother.    
    
     
    Rest in peace little Willow.  We'll miss you.  
                                                
    Jan
                                                           

         Oh, Jan, I'm so very sorry about Willow.  The poor little thing.
    
         Hard as it was, you did the right thing in retrieving her little
    body.  That must have been very, very hard.
    
         Please don't blame yourself for being there late ... it had
    nothing to do with her fate.  Just look at all the good you're doing.
    
         Willow lives on, in your heart, and she'll be watching over you
    from the Bridge.
    
    					- Andrea
    					  Loki, Midnight & Patches

    
    Oh, Jan, I'm so sorry 8,^(.

Hang in there Jan, like you said, she got a raw deal, but 
like Andrea says too - you made it a lot better for her 
for the short time she was here. 

> Already another car had gone by and hit her.

Nyyyyyyrrr some people have so little respect for 
living creatures, that's sick..    I can understand if 
someone clips an animal in busy traffic and doesn't 
see but once an animal is down in the road you can tell!
I've been pillion on a bike and helped when we stopped 
cause a car had taken out a fox, the driver, understandably
was in shock and seemed to not be able to move and even 
though it was a fox so clearly not someones pet we still 
carefully took it and laid it at the side of the road!

If it'd been a child would they have done the same? 
It doesn't matter she wasn't bought from a breeder and 
collared and tagged up - none of them deserve that little
respect.  Still, if she was in the road then it's a sign 
it waas *very* quick for her and she doubtless literally 
didn't know what hit her. 

She sounds to have been a beautiful little kitty and 
I'm sure she's bounding around the fields at the bridge, 
with perfect vision and all the eagerness a young kitty has. 

    Jan...my heart is with you and Willow at this time.  Life was
    rough on little Willow...but you had put a little sunshine in
    her life during the time you knew her.  
    
    Sandy.

    Thanks for the kind words.  It helps.  Since Friday I've found that
    I'm quite hesitant to go for the feral feedings each night.  I'm so
    afraid that I'm going to find one of the others out in the road.
    
    Presley has given me heart attacks two nights in a row now by making
    a bad decision on when to cross.  Luckily he knows his name and when
    I shriek PRESLEY NOOOOOOO!!!! he stops crossing and runs back to the 
    side.  I'd die if anything happened to him.  I'm so attached to him.
    He's not supposed to be living in a feral colony.  He's supposed to 
    be in an indoor home now.  This was truly a bad placement.  He is the 
    reason I'm now caring for this colony.  I'd never have found these 
    guys if the idiot boyfriend of the woman I placed him with had honored 
    the commitment to keep him inside instead of letting him out after 4
    days.  I tried to tell them that he was still semi-wild and would need
    to be indoor only.  Arrgghhh!!
    
    Jan
                                  

    I hate to be a pessimist/cynic - but does anyone know if the rescue
    agency in .252 is legit?
    
    I'd love to be able to donate money to someone doing animail rescue
    work for the flood victims - I keep looking at those pictures and
    wondering how the animals are doing. With some of those houses almost
    completely under water... it's so sad.
    
    However, as much as I want to donate, it also sounds like a great
    opportunity for scams.
    
    thanks!
    
    janetb.

    Yes, it's legit.  It's part of United Animal Nations.  They
    get a lot of press asking for help during disasters out here in CA,
    and did an excellent job with the CA flood victims.  They rescued
    about 800+ animals, reunited half with their owners and the other half
    have either been adopted or are now with no-kill shelters.  ABC News
    did a story on them some time ago, and I'm on their mailing list.
    They have an article in the latest newsletter about the CA rescue,
    it's quite amazing how vets and vet students and pet food companies
    as well as individuals helped out.  The local news had at least two
    stories with film about the work.
    

    They also have a web site at http://uan-ears.ciexchange.com.
    

    I'll also vouch for EARS being legitimate.  The woman who founded the
    group spoke in the education ring for out Tails & No Tales Cat Show 
    a couple of years ago.  I found out Friday night she also has a book
    out.  I'll have to go retrieve the title from my mail if anyone is
    interested in it.
    
    Jan

    I felt like a kitty crossing guard tonight.  I was standing along
    side the road tonight watching traffic while Bob and LuLu and Bob Jr.
    crossed.
    
    It was...
    
    	Okay, Bob, come on.
    	Wait Junior, there's a car. Okay, now come on.
    	Okay, LuLu, it's clear, come on 
    
    Like they understand me or something.  It's funny in a way.  I have
    these great, long conversations with these cats and they move or 
    look at me like they have some idea of what I'm saying.  It's so 
    funny how they respond.
    
    Sunday night a car pulled right into the area where I was feeding 
    cats scaring me and the cats.  He came close to running over all 
    of us.  When he got out of the car he said I scared him.  If he only
    knew what I wanted to do to him.  I told him he nearly hit me and 3
    cats and he chuckled and walked away.  Maybe he thought I was just 
    giving him a bad time or maybe he didn't understand what I was saying.  
    He had a very strong hispanic accent so that is not impossible. I was 
    so angry.  I had a few choice names for him as he walked out of
    hearing range.
    
    Anyway, tonight I was standing along the side of the road when he 
    pulled up again.  I noticed he didn't just barrel into the tree area
    this time.  He pulled up slowely and stayed closer to the pavement
    area as he parallel parked behind another car.
    
    Usually, I stay hidden in the trees and try to keep a low profile.
    Tonight I was there earlier than usually (9:00pm) and stayed near
    the edge of the road watching for Presley, who never showed up.  He
    was probably expecting me later.  Anway, I did a little study tonight.
    It wasn't very scientific, but, I discovered that the cars on that road
    will go slower if they see a person standing by the side of the road.
    Well, most of them anyway.
    
    It appears the speed limit on Pedro is 25.  I haven't been able to find
    a speed limit sign on the section of road near the cats.  The only one
    I saw was a block or two further up.  I'm going to check with my sister
    (who works for the city) and see if she can tell me how to get the
    speed limited posted more clearly and if there's any chance of getting
    a copy over there now and then to slow things down.  Some of these
    folks come roaring through there.  It's a narrow road with lots of pot
    holes and patches.  There are cars parked on both sides and lots of
    apartments and houses along the street.  There's no reason for people
    to impersonate speedy racer in this little two block section.
    
    Okay, off my soap box now...
    
    Jan  
    
                                                 
    

    Oh, one more thing.  I had a conversation with Karen Johnson from
    National Pet Alliance and have been given some good leads on getting
    cost reductions on trapping, testing, vaccinating and releasing these
    guys.  Unfortunately, they'll be released back into their current 
    area.  
    
    FYI, Karen is one of the two people in San Jose who give out the 
    spay/neuter certificates the city sponsors.  She has given me some 
    inside information and cleared up some misconceptions I had about my
    name being kept on record or recording the number of cats I spay and 
    neuter with these vouchers. 
                           
    Karen Kolling has also been a godsend in my efforts to keep these guys
    fed when I'm gone and in her efforts to help to get them vaccinated and 
    altered.  Thank goodness for her contacts who handle the ferals in Palo 
    Alto too.  They have great first-hand experience to fall back on.   
    
    You guys have recently gotten to hear of my trials and tribulations
    with this colony.  I've been bending poor Karen's ear daily for months
    now. :^)                                                         
    
    Jan
    

    Thanks to all of you who responded about EARS. I'm glad it's real. I've
    looked over their web site, interesting reading.
    
    Once again this notes files has been helpful... it's nice to have
    someplace to check these things out and to share info!
    
    janetb.

    Jan, I'm so sorry about little Willow. It sounds like she was such a
    pretty little thing. 
    
    Deb

    I was feeding the feral babes tonight.  As usual Bob Jr. had his
    two front feet in the feeding dish and I was petting him.  He purrs
    very loud when when I pet him.  This is the only one of these cats
    I can touch.  I've been trying to get close to his sister, Callie,
    but she isn't quite as trusting.
    
    Anyway, Bob Jr. The Princess and Callie were all eating out of the
    same dish.  The Princess' head was really close to Junior so I 
    reached out and touched her head, once, twice, three times.  She
    flinched a little but did not run or hiss.  So, I reached out and
    put my hand in front of her.  She leaned over and sniffed my fingers
    and again did not hiss or run.  I'm so excited.  I've not been able
    to get that close to her ever.  
    
    And, to make things even more exciting...I did briefly touch Callie.  
    She moved out of reach but not far.  And, at one point she reached out
    and batted my hand.  This isn't really new but there is one slight 
    change.  When she batted my hand this time, she didn't have her claws 
    out.  
    
    Okay, so it's a minor little thing to some people but to me it meant
    the world.  I would love to be able to get close enough to these cats
    to tame them and find them homes.  This is just the first step.  I've
    been quite hesitant to go out to the cat tree each night since Willow's
    death...so afraid I'll find another one in the road that little things
    like this are a blessing and renew my resolve to keep going.
    
    Jan (thankful that it was a quiet night with few cars and truly excited
         that all 10 cats came out from under the fence to greet me when I 
         got out of the car tonight)
                          
      
       

Jan

I find it truly amazing that you are able to touch these kitties at all!!
Also, I'm one who can definitely appreciate any progress made by a feral...
How I wish you lived nearby and could meet Gypsy!!!!

Laura                          
      
       

    Jan,
    
    that is great progress!!!
    
    Deb and the formerly feral FIRM

    Yes, this is terrific.  They are beautiful, beautiful kitties.
    

    Ack!  I've done a silly thing.  I've picked up one of the feral 
    kittens and brought him home.  
    
    The cat I believe to be his mom hasn't been around for 3 nights.
    I was getting really worried about him.  He seemed to be doing
    okay on his own but I just couldn't leave him out there.  I've
    fed him Science Diet Feline Growth for the last 3 nights.  The
    first night I had to run around all over trying to get the canned
    food placed in front of him so he'd actually get some instead of
    all the big cats.  
    
    The second night it was easier.  I put the food down in the normal
    place behind the yucca tree and he found his way to it after I 
    sort of herded him in there.  Tonight I put the food down and 
    called him and he went right to it.  Last night I crawled under
    the yucca (under the dead yucca leaves, under the cobwebs, ick! the
    things I'll do for a cat).  I was able to pet him while he ate.
    So, tonight I got a little cocky and crawled under to pet him again.
    Once I felt he was okay with the petting I picked him up and put him 
    into the carrier I brought with me.
    
    So, now I'm back to 7 cats in my house.  This is not a good thing.
    My mother is scared to death I'll be evicted from my apartment.
    Actually, I think she's more scared I'll bring all my cats and 
    move in with her.  However, he will stay here as long as it takes 
    to get him healthy and find him a home.
    
    He can't be more than about 4 weeks old at this point.  He's a little
    red tabby.  I've been calling him a boy but I'll be darned if I know
    for sure if it's a girl or a boy.  I took a look tonight and am 
    still stumped.  Nothing looked quite the way it should.
    
    Keep your ears and eyes open for a potential cat home for this little
    waif.  He'll be needing one in the next few weeks.
    
    Jan  
    
    Amelia is truly annoyed that she can't get into the bathroom.  That's
    her favorite hangout.  Unfortunately, the little guy is in quarantine
    in the bathroom until further notice.       

    The little kitty man is doing pretty well.  He's using his litter
    tray like a champ.  He's eating his SD Feline Growth and drinking
    water like a pro too.  It's obvious he'd still like to be nursing
    though.  He's got his little mouth on my fingers, palms and knuckles
    all the time trying to find something that will provide kitten
    comfort.
    
    He's got mondo fleas.  I've been combing them off of him at every
    opportunity.  He's getting a little cranky about the flea comb
    though.  He's not afraid to let me know he'd rather be doing something
    else.
    
    I'm feeling a little guilty about keeping him confined to a cat 
    carrier.  I've got an intermediate sized carrier in the bathroom for
    him to hangout in.  When I'm in the bathroom with him he can run all
    over but when I'm not I put him in the carrier.  This is working okay
    while I'm home but what about tomorrow when I'm at work?  I'm tempted
    to bring him with me so I can look in on him periodically.  I'll be
    trying to get him into the vet in the morning and will see what they
    say about keeping him confined for such a long time.   
          
    Jan

re sexing kittens

(not that I'd try to tell you anything - you no doubt know 
more than anything but I thought I'd mention for anyone
elses benefits) 

if his red fur is all over, no white bits then he can only
be a he.   

Tortoiseshells are always females and gingers male. 

Ginger and white chaps can be female though sometimes. 

> I'll be
>    trying to get him into the vet in the morning and will see what they
>    say about keeping him confined for such a long time.   

I would imagine it's ok - so long as an intermediate carrier means big
enough for a litter tray and water and food and space to lie down. 

Ok so it's not perfect for socialising him, but it's not all the 
time.  Knuffie spent most of her time in a small cage in the 
vets then in a medium sized cage with an RSPCA lady and the only 
difference it seems to have made to her is that whenever I get 
a carry cage out to take Belle to the vets Knuffie runs into it 
and sits down, I think it's a security thing, she thinks she 
belongs in little cages (or the little gap between me and the 
duvet when I go to bed - every night she tucks me  in - little love).

    
    
    	Ok, folks.....  I need your help now like I never have before.
    
    	Shane and I went to Mystic CT for the weekend.  The place we 
    	stayed is owned/run by an old man, former fisherman that is 
    	mostly deaf and partially blind in one eye.  Quite the character.
    	When we got there, there were 3 kitties milling about and I made
    	a comment about it and he said that they had fourteen!  Though I
    	never saw more than 4 of them while we were there.  Anyhoo, one of
    	them, a pretty little gray/white female (if I had to guess, 8-10
    	months old) and after petting her, feeling her belly I could tell
    	she had recently had kittens.  Turns out I was right.  After
    	knowing this for sure (one of the other renters said they were in
    	the reeds), I had to look for them.  Momma cat was never anywhere
    	but up on the porch with the other cats so I knew any babies that
    	she had, if they were still alive, were alone.  I eventually found
    	them in some dense, prickly shrubs.  There were two, one was
    	already	dead but the other was crying for momma.  I tried putting
    	her back in there with it, but when we'd walk away, she'd follow
    	us.  I called two vets down there and they both told me to call 
    	the Humane Society.  Which I did, and was told because there would
    	be no vet there till Tuesday (this was Saturday afternoon), that
    	the only thing they'd be able to do was take the kitten in and put
    	it to sleep.  Not my first option.  So, not knowing really what
    	to do, we left him there, hoping momma cat would take some
    	interest.  I should mention that this baby is no more than a couple
    	days old.  Sunday was a miserable day.  We checked on him Sunday
    	morning before we headed off to the aquarium.  He was still alive.
    	By the time we got back later that day, momma cat was curled up
    	on the dry porch with one of the others and her baby was alone in
    	the rain.  By the time we got him out, he was so cold and so wet,
    	I wasn't sure he'd make it.  We brought him inside and I cuddled 
    	up with him, trying to warm him up.  We didn't have anything but
    	cow's milk so I prayed that would suffice till we could get to 
    	a pet store back home.  He has a good set of lungs, kept us up
    	most of the night Sunday night so we left really early on Monday
    	to come home.  (When I get really tired, I get sick to my stomach)
    	We got home and I put him in one of the kitty carriers, with a 
    	towel and a couple of stuffed animals.  Then I took a 3 hour nap.
    	After sleeping, I called Joanne, the woman at the Furniture
    	Warehouse in Manchester where we adopted Gilligan.  She said to put
    	a heating pad in there and to get some KMR and asked if we wanted
    	her to take a look at him.  So, off we go to Manchester.  She gives
    	us a syringe to use to feed him and shows us how to help him pee
    	and poop to get rid of his body wastes.  Then we're off to Petco
    	for the KMR.  So far he's doing ok.  He seems pretty content to
    	cuddle up next to the stuffed animals and gets very annoyed when
    	we wake him up to feed him.  =)
    
    	Here's where I need some advice/help.....
    
    	At what age do kittens open their eyes?  (his are still closed)
    	When is the youngest a kitten can be tested for leukemia?
    	If he lasts long enough, when can we start weaning him onto
    		a different formula?  (the back of the KMR can says
    					4 weeks)
    	Is there anyone near the Nashua/Milford NH area that would be
    		willing to take him for this weekend?  Shane and I
    		made plans months ago with another couple and we can't
    		take him with us - there will be no electricity for the
    		heating pad.
    	Is there anything else we should be doing for him?
    
    
    	Shane says we can't keep him, that 4 cats is enough.  So chances are
    	I'll have to find a home for him, if he lives.  Whoever it is, will
    	have to be someone that will be willing to give me visitation rights
    	as I know I won't be able to give him up completely.
    
    
    	Thanks!
    
    	JJ
    
    

    JJ,
    
    I can't help you wit logistics, but I have raised kittens, so here is a
    bit of information.
    
    1.  Kittens open their eyes around 10 days, some around 7 some at 14. 
    Mom cats usually move their kittens to a darker area if they had them
    in a daylit one for a week or so when this starts.  
    
    2.  You really do have a youngster, sounds like this might have been a
    first litter for momcat too.  First litters seem to be the most likely
    to be abandoned by mom cats, although I had one female cat in my youth
    who NEVER would nurse her kits past two weeks and that long, only by
    force.  (Needless to say she was spayed after litter #2, even though
    she had perfect confirmation and great bloodlines)  
    
    3.  by 4 weeks you can introduce babymeats, and softened kitten food. 
    Over the next couple of weeks use less formula and have more kitten
    food available.  keep it soft for at least 6 weeks, and then it can
    start getting crunchy.  
    
    4.  Good Luck!  I have bottle-fed one litter and had a couple actually
    survive when mom rejected them.  It isn't easy being a round-the-clock
    mom.  
    
    meg

    
    
    	Thanks Meg.  I thought about taking both the mom AND the kitten
    	but wasn't sure if these cats really belonged to the guy that 
    	owned the place or if they were just cats that hung around there.
    	A couple of them (mom included) had flea collars on.  I am hoping
    	to send some $$ down in the near future or something and asking
    	him to get at least the girl(s) fixed.  
    
    

>re sexing kittens
>(not that I'd try to tell you anything - you no doubt know 
>more than anything but I thought I'd mention for anyone
>elses benefits) 
>
>if his red fur is all over, no white bits then he can only
>be a he.   

    Thanks.  I was pretty sure he was a male.  The color did give it away.
    But, the one time I just assume this to be accurate I'll probably end 
    up with a rare female.
    
>I would imagine it's ok - so long as an intermediate carrier means big
>enough for a litter tray and water and food and space to lie down. 
>
>Ok so it's not perfect for socialising him, but it's not all the 
>time.  Knuffie spent most of her time in a small cage in the 
>vets then in a medium sized cage with an RSPCA lady and the only 
>difference it seems to have made to her is that whenever I get 
>a carry cage out to take Belle to the vets Knuffie runs into it 
>and sits down, I think it's a security thing, she thinks she 
>belongs in little cages (or the little gap between me and the 
>duvet when I go to bed - every night she tucks me  in - little love).

    He's actually in the large carrier now.  I've got an old square pan
    covered with plastic and filled with litter in there with him.  There's
    also room for a combination food/water dish (which is actually a
    Weight Watchers tupperware).  He's to the point where he has the 
    run of the bathroom (I've moved everything out and closed the toilet
    lid).  
    
    He's outrageously social.  My favorite thing is when I'm holding him
    near my face and he reaches up to nuzzle me and give me kitten kisses.

    Okay, we had our first vet visit today.  I managed to talk them in to
    fitting us in at the last minute.
    
    The good news is the little guy tested negative for FELV/FIV.  YEA!!!

    His temperature was a normal 102 degrees.  I was a little concerned
    he might have a kitty cold due to some random sneezing and slightly
    watery eyes.  They gave me some triple antibiotic ointment for his eyes.  
    I left a stool sample with them for testing and should have the results 
    later this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

    He has received his first 3-in-1 shot and needs the booster in 4 weeks.
    When they took him in to draw blood for the FELV/FIV test you could
    hear him screaming for blocks.  They told me he was screaming from
    being held down and not from the needle.  When he came back to the
    room with a bandage on his leg he seemed to think he couldn't use
    that leg any more.  They removed it before we left the office though 
    so he is doing fine.

    I have a friend who works for the humane society.  She's currently
    fostering a mom and five kittens.  Two of the kittens are duplicates
    of little Red.  She offered to let me "plug him in" to her mom cat
    if the vet thought it was necessary.  The vet didn't think he would
    need to go there though.  She felt that since he was eating and 
    drinking on his own and at about the age most moms begin weaning
    that he would probably be okay.
    
    I've been calling the little guy "Red" for lack of something better.
    This morning the name began morphing into Rhett (as in Rhett Butler).
    Big name for such a little guy.
    
    Per the vet, he could probably go to a new home now.  He's eating
    canned kitten food and drinking water on his own.  He's also using
    his litter pan like a champ.  I'm going to start looking for that
    home now and hopefully will have one for him within the next couple
    of weeks.
    
    Jan
    

Oh! Rhett sounds so wonderful! 

Yet another case of I wish I wish... 
it's just as well I'm not over there
- I'd have  a dozen cats by now, minimum. 


JJ, good luck with the little mite!  

    
    
    	Thanks.  So far so good.  He was still with us as of this
    	morning.  I'm in the process of trying to find a foster mom-cat
    	to feed him.  I've got a call in to the Derry Humane Society
    	and will be calling the Goffstown Animal Rescue League this
    	afternoon to see if they know of any momcats......
    
    	JJ
    

    You guys know you're talking about two different litle kitties, right
    :-)
    

    Re: 793.279
    
    Rhett/Red (we still alternate names) is indeed the cutest of little
    guys.  Why don't you come out to California for a visit.  I promise
    not to check your pockets for cats on the way home.
    
    I don't know how anyone who sees little Rhett could possibly resist
    him.  When I hold him up close to my face and get those nuzzles and
    kitten kisses it just melts my heart.  
    
    It's been 6 years since I've had a kitten in the house.  That kitten
    is now a 16 pound humungo cat (that would be Onyx). 
    
    Re: 793.280
    
    Just wait till your little one is at the 5 week stage.  By then you'll
    be so attached you won't want to leave him for a minute.
    
    Jan

    
    
    	re: Jan.
    
    	I have no doubt I won't want to let him go.  It's Shane
    	that needs the working on.  He's afraid to get too attached
    	to him cuz he knows if we both do........ he'll never leave.
    	
    	No luck with the Goffstown Rescue League for a foster momcat.
    	Still awaiting a call back from the Derry Humane Society and
    	the Salem Rescue League.
    
    

    Hey Judy, my hubby once said "two is enough".....I got a t-shirt that
    said "one can never have enough cats". It's so true, you know. Last
    year, someone dumped a poor little kitten out the car window. Of
    course, she is living with us. The protest was mild. He knew he didn't
    have a chance of making me find her a home. We have 11 cats now...
    Hey, cats happen!

    Re: .283
    
    I think Shane should be helping to feed him.  He won't be able 
    to help becoming attached to him then.  You'll have him hooked
    then.  
    
    He probably already knows deep down that this cat is never leaving 
    anyway.  It'll just take a little time for this to migrate to the 
    surface in his mind. :^)
    
    I've found that the more I have to tend to them/nurse them to 
    health the more attached I become and the harder it is to part
    with them.
       
    Jan

    
    
    	He already is helping to feed him.  Usually Shane holds
    	him and I wrangle to get the eyedropper in his tiny little
    	mouth.
    
    	Yesterday, Shane laid down and put him on his chest after we
    	fed and relieved him (the kitten, not Shane  =)  ).  He loves
    	to curl up in your hair if you let him.  
    
     

    JJ,
    
    Frank has always sworn he tolerates the cats only for their mousing
    abilities, but I catch him loving on ours when he thinks I am not
    watching, and is the person who lets them in and out through the window
    next to the bed all night long.  (they don't ask me when Frank is
    working at night, they know better ;-)  )  We have gained cats over
    the years by one of the kids bringing one in to the house or asking if
    they could keep a kitten or stray.  
    
    He was as upset as I was when my old-lady went to live with Bast at the
    age of 19.
    
    Keep feeding the littleleast one, and I will hope for a foster mom too.
    
    meg

    Re: .286
    
    My little guy heads for my hair too when I hold him up close to
    my neck/shoulders.  It must be that the hair resembles fur to them.
    
    Jan

> Why don't you come out to California for a visit.  I promise
>    not to check your pockets for cats on the way home.

Ooohhhh!!! So tempting!

I'd just have to persuade customs not to notice any furry squirming 
lumps down my t-shirt and I'd be away :-) 

I've family in LA and around too ... if only I had the spare 
holiday time and cash :-) It's all gone on kitties though so 
far already (well most of it).


Still there's new baby furfaces due at a friends down the road 
really soon (assuming they survive ok) little Minstrel is only 
about 9-10 months - but she'll get lots of support. 


Re Shane - you've got the key to persuading him to let the iddy 
one stay - so long as he's involved the odds carry on increasing. 
Just a bit of cuddling and nursing and there you go, another 
multicat household increases again. 



Furry UK healthy happy wishes to the two little new adoptees... 

 

    
    
    	Need some advice........  the little one is eating regularly
    	and is actually starting to suck on the eyedropper but he doesn't
    	appear to be gaining any weight.
    
    	First, is there a type of scale I can get that measures in ounces?
    	If so, where might I find one?
    
    	Second, is there something I can add to the KMR that will help
    	him put on some weight?
    
    	Third, he's peeing (with our help of course) but isn't making
    	any bowel movements.  Is this normal?  When we first got him
    	he pooped on his own and Joanne (at the shelter) told me it's
    	because he was backed up.  But now he's not going at all.
    
    
    	Thanks!
    
    	JJ
    

    JJ...I do beleive the KMR is the only thing you should be giving
    him right now.   Also...I do know the shelter has some teenie tiny
    little baby bottles that are used for feeding kittens.  This works
    well because they can actually suck on the nipple which is more
    like sucking on a mom then an eye dropper.  You probably can find
    these in pet stores.   
    
    As far as a scale...why not use a scale which is used for measuring
    food.   I do believe those are measured in ounces and would work 
    well until the kitten got bigger.
    
    Sandy 

    
    
    	We bought one of the tiny kitten bottles when we got the
    	KMR... he didn't seem to  like it much.  I'll try again
    	when I got home at lunchtime.
    
    	Where can I get a food scale?  At a Kitchen Etc. type place?
    
    

    Food scale...I would assume any department store would have them.
    
    I do remember one trick with the bottle is to ensure the hole in
    the nipple is the correct size because the kitty will get frustrated
    if the hole is so small that nothing comes out...but he will also
    get soaked if the hole is too big.
    
    Good luck...
    
    Sandy 

    I would think about either calling the vet and asking about the no
    poop, or taking him in for a vet visit.  Those little tiny ones don't
    have much of a reserve to last them if anything is wrong.
    

    
    
    	I called Joanne at the shelter and she's given my name and
    	number to a woman who has hand-raised LOTS of kittens.  I'll
    	see what she says.  If I don't hear from her by tomorrow, I'll
    	give Eric a call.
    

    			Kittengarten Report Card
    
    Name:	Rhett Butler (aka Red)
    Age:	5-6 weeks
    Color:	Red tabby
    Sex:	Male
    			
                        Grade	Comments
    Health Education:	
    	FeLV/FIV	A	Tested Negative
    	Eyes		B	Add antibiotic ointment for a week 
    	Fleas		C	Present, quantity decreasing daily
    	Vaccinations	A	1st shot received, booster in 4 weeks
        Intr Parasites	C	Coccidia present, treat for 2 weeks
    
    Home Economics:
    	Canned Food	A+
    	Dry food	B	Must be moistened
    
    Litterbox 101:
    	Uses box	A+
    	Covers		C       Needs improvement
    
    Physical Education:	
    	TP tube		A+      Good use of back feet in attack mode
    	Ball w/bell	A+	Excels at kitty soccer
	Self Defense	A+	Intimidates 16 lb cats in a single bound
        Track		A+	Good sprinter
	Jumping		C	Needs work on takeoffs and landings
    	Climbing	I	Incomplete, hasn't started yet <whew!>    
    
    Chorus:
	Meows		A+	Sings at every opportunity, especially 
    				when stressed
    
    Deportment:
    	Don't Bite	C	Needs work
    	Soft Paws	C	Needs work
    	Claw Clip	C	Needs work, can't sit still
    	Nuzzles	&	A+	He's a pro
    	 Kitten Kisses	
    	Grooming	B	Tries very hard, but needs improvement
    
    Remarks:
    
    Red is a lovable, affectionate kitten with a strong personality.
    When confined or unable to get his way he does have a tendency to 
    complain loudly.  Red plays well with others...well, he would if 
    they wouldn't run from him.    	
                                                 

    rhett sounds wonderful!
    
    If my daughter's cats weren't Fleuk+, I would put you two in touch. 
    However, it wouldn't be fair to Rhett, or to Fatty and Buster (her
    rescues from last year.)
    
    meg

    The perfect home will present itself soon (I hope).  Of course,
    it will probably be after I'm totally attached to the little guy.
    
    I've asked mom if Rhett can stay with her for a couple of days 
    while I'm getting some things in my apartment fixed.  This always
    means moving at least 2 cats to mom's.  I'm currently 2 (oops, 3)
    over what they think I have.  Mom is convinced I'm bringing Rhett 
    too in the hopes she won't be able to resist him.  Unfortunately, 
    she already has one older cat and a large dog so is probably going 
    to do her best to resist anyway.
    
    Jan       
    

    
    
    	I love the report Jan..... what a hoot!  =)
    
    	Well, I'm a bit worried this morning.  I didn't want to come
    	in today - I would have rather stayed home to keep an eye
    	on the little one.  He wasn't as feisty this morning as he 
    	usually is.  After rereading some info Jan sent me, Shane and
    	I came to the conclusion that we haven't been feeding him nearly
    	enough formula.  So we made sure we gave him a good amount this
    	morning.  He's still not crazy about the eye dropper - maybe I
    	can find a plastic one instead of glass?  He really enjoys the 
    	bottle but I think the hole still isn't big enough for him to get
    	anything out of it.  He knows how to suckle, I just don't think his
    	little mouth is strong enough.  A fellow Feliner is bringing me
    	a scale to use, so I'll weigh him when I go home for lunch.  Since
    	we'll be home this weekend, we'll be able to feed him more
    	frequently than we've been able to during the week.  Hopefully that
    	will help too.
    
    	JJ
    

> He really enjoys the 
>    	bottle but I think the hole still isn't big enough for him to get
>    	anything out of it.

Just shove a pin or a brooch pin through it to make a couple more
little holes, it won't hurt really - especially if he doesn't seem to 
be feeding enough!

I remember a couple of weeks of syringe feeding a bunch of kitties, 
a couple of them were really feisty and kept trying to chew the 
side of the syringe instead of drinking... 

I concluded that the main objective was to get the stuff inside them 
and started just squirting it in their faces (you can imagine black 
longhaired kittens with little white cat formula masks :-)   
though it wasn't the recommended method and used more formula than 
was really necessary they licked it off their faces and it ended up 
inside them and in the long run the results were good cause they 
survived and did well. They were a little older than this one I 
think but when it comes down to it as long as you don't leave it
to dry on the fur and cause problems going off or matting on them 
then whatever gets it inside them is good. 

    
    
    	Well so far we've punctured it with a needle, then with a 
    	skewer, then with the tine from a fork..... and it's still
    	not big enough!  Problem is, when I squeeze the bottle, 
    	nothing happens.  I actually have to squeeze the top of the
    	nipple.  We'll keep trying!  =)
    
    	M-M also reminded me about the ticking clock thing.  I'm going
    	to see if the little clock mom and dad gave us for camping is
    	a wind up one.  If so, that'll go into the kitty carrier when
    	I get home as well.
    

    JJ, my vet gave me a plastic syringe for administering various
    things to my cats.  It's a little hard to describe, but I think it
    might work for you.  The barrel is about three inches long and
    1/4 inch wide, and the "needle" part is not metal but a small
    plastic tube about 1/4 inch long and with a wide enough opening
    that you can easily despense(sp?) quite a lot of stuff.  The plunger
    in the barrel has a rubber-like thing on the end of the inner part,
    so there is no leakage (unlike an eye dropper) and you can control
    releasing fluid very well.  I believe this is part of an
    actual syringe that has a metal needle and the vet's office somehow
    removes that part before they give it to me.  It is not a similar
    sounding syringe with a very long, cumbersome curved plastic "needle"
    on the end.
      

    
    
    	Just got back from feeding him again.  He seemed a little
    	"peppier" than he did this morning.  Not quite as active as
    	yesterday though.  Maybe by tonite.......
    
    	The little camp clock does have a second hand that ticks so
    	I put that in the carrier, under the towel.  He laid down right
    	next to it when I put him back in.
    
    	Question for those of you who have done this to little ones...
    	is it normal for him not to be pooping?  There's a lot of urine
    	released when I massage his underbelly but nothing else.
    
    	And one thing I can't quite figure out..... Shane and I are both
    	quite allergic to the little guy!  We both start sneezing, Shane's
    	eyes get itchy and my chest gets tight.  Very strange.  My only
    	theory is that our sensitivities are heightened right now due to
    	pollen but I can't imagine what ON him is making us react.
    
    	Anyhoo......... that's the update till Monday.  Keep your fingers
    	crossed.  =)
    

    
    
    	re: Karen
    
    	Yes, we have one of those too.  Joanne gave it to us.  Will
    	try that again.  Will also try making yet a bigger hole in
    	the bottle.  I tried it again when I went home to feed him
    	at lunchtime and it looked like he was getting a *little* bit
    	out of it, but not enough to content him.  He gets frustrated
    	after a short while and spits out the nipple.
    
    

    I know zippo about kittens, but it's been several days now with no
    poop, right?  I would call the vet and ask about this, before the
    vet closes for the weekend.
    

    Yep, I agree, you should make sure that the kitten isn't impacted with
    fecal material.  When you feel his belly, can you feel a tube of
    poop?  Have you seen the kitten ever poop?  Maybe try stimulating the
    kitten for a very long time (even after it pees) to see if it'll
    go.

    be careful about using the syringe.  I read somewhere that if you shoot
    the materials straight into the cat's mouth it can end up being
    aspirated and affect their lungs.  
    
    of course I read that *after* I'd been administering liquid antibiotics
    to my little ones by squirting it into their mouths ...
    
    When my vet uses a syringe she squirts a little at a time from the
    side of the cat's mouth.  This is, of course, more difficult to do when
    there's only one of you to hold the cat and administer the syringe!
    I've yet to master this technique.
    
    And I'd call the vet also re: no poops.
    
    Gita
    

    
    
    	Well I just got off the phone with Dr. Eric and he suggested
    	me rubbing a little lower than just on his belly and he'll go
    	if he needs to.  So we'll try giving that a shot.  I tried feeling
    	around his little belly this afternoon and though I'm not quite
    	sure *what* I'm feeling for, I didn't feel any blockages or
    	anything that wasn't soft............
    
    	As for the syringe.... even with the eye dropper, he tends to keep
    	it over on the side of his mouth (almost like he's teething on it)
    	so I can see just how much formula I'm getting into his mouth at
    	a time.  I was forewarned to be careful not to give him too much
    	at a time so that it doesn't go into his lungs.
    
    	I also heard something rather interesting....that single kittens
    	that are hand raised tend to be rather neurotic because they don't
    	have any parents or siblings to model after.  Has anyone else
    	heard/experienced this?
    
    	JJ
    

    Judy -
    
    A few years back a friend of mine found 2 kittens that had been 
    abandoned.  Both kittens were about a week old.
    
    I remember the vet telling her that the cats would be anti-social 
    when they were older (which they are).  I would have thought just the 
    opposite - if they are raised by a human and rely on that person to
    feed them, clean them, etc wouldn't they be more inclined to be 
    people cats?
    
    My two on the other hand had kitty mothers but think that they are
    humans.
    
    As for this little guy he has lots of older brothers and sisters
    that he can learn from!  I'm sure that Gilligan will teach him the
    ropes...
    

    
    
    	Eesh!  What we do NOT need is another Gilligan.  =)
    	Don't get me wrong, I love the monster to death but he is
    	such a terror!
    
    	I'd like to think that if we did get him associated with the
    	other cats, that he'd be ok.  But I can't do that until we
    	get him test for leukemia, get his shots etc.
    
    	Gotta take everything a day at a time I guess.
    
    

    Doing this kitten thing is definitely a challenge.  Just when you
    think you're getting it all together they throw you a curve ball.
    
    I just picked up meds for the little Red boy.  Amoxicillin cuz he's
    been sneezing since he got his shot and they don't want to take any
    chances.  Albon because he's harboring a little alien entity.  And
    here I was anticipating the end of quarantine...silly me.
    
    Jan (who can't seem to be on the right side of the bathroom door
         for any cat in the house...if I'm in with Red the big guys
         are mad, if I'm in with the big guys Red is mad.
                                                 

You're all doing great I'm sure... hang in there 
and give then a little cuddle/tummy massages from 
me and Knuffs and Belle and  Luce. 

re neuroticism - I'd imagine you probably get a 
free-er reign in encouraging them to behave how 
you want, play psychologist with them in the sense
of training them your way - problem is I guess we
can't really know what they think about everything
so you've always the chance of a completely unpredictable
kitty who thinks he's a child rather than even just 
behaving similarly to a person/how we encourage them 
to behave. 

    
    
    	Well our rescue efforts didn't work out.  Our little
    	Mystic kitten passed over to the Bridge around 5:00
    	yesterday afternoon.  It's amazing how attached we had
    	become to him, after only a week.  Out of habit, I woke
    	up at 2:00 this morning thinking he was due for a feeding.
    	At least he waited till we got home from running errands
    	yesterday.  He wasn't doing well starting on Friday night.
    	By Sunday he was having a hard time breathing.  When we
    	got home, I took him into the bedroom with me to watch 
    	TV and he died while snuggled up on my chest.  I'm glad
    	he wasn't alone.  We buried him in the backyard and I've
    	"asked" Chloe to help him out on the other side.
    
    	I suppose I'll be second guessing myself for a while.  Wondering
    	if we fed him enough, fed him too much, fed him the wrong way....
    	Lots of folks "in the know" said he probably wouldn't make it but
    	he seemed like such a fighter, I was hoping he'd beat the odds.
    	And I was right in how Shane was feeling....... had the little guy
    	lived, he wouldn't have left our house.  I hope he knew we loved
    	him for the short time he was here.
    
    	JJ
    

    JJ...so sorry to hear about the little one.  please do not
    second guess yourself (I know..it's easier to say then do), but
    many times a momma kitty will not take care of a kitten when she
    knows something is wrong with it.    My guess is....this is why
    the Momma kitty was not taking care of him...and you and Shane did
    your best to help him out.  Atleast he knew what love was all about
    in his very short life.
    
    My heart is with you...
    
    Sandy  

 >I suppose I'll be second guessing myself for a while. Wondering
>if we fed him enough, fed him too much, fed him the wrong
>way....
 

Don't beat yourself up, (I know a little wondering is inevitable
but don't let yourself conclude you did *anything* wrong, just
make sure your wonderings are only to help you learn whatever it
is you need to learn from the experience - even if it's how to
let go after loving something so dependant and tiny).   

You did your very very best, as well as most of us could (short
maybe of an experienced feline vet - and they just don't tend to
take on waifs and strays) and better than many could have I'm
sure. 

I reckon any kitten that has the backing of this conference has
the best chance it could hope for... that and lots of love...
Like Sandy says - good chance maybe that there was something up
that mum kitty could tell hence the abandonment.  You made his
last few days a lot more comfortable and loving than lying
waiting I'm sure.  I'm sure you gave him a massive increase in
his chances of survival compared to being rejected in the reeds
and the littlest ones do seem to sense the love the most so I'm
sure he's purring little teeny squeaky purrs of thanks and relief
over at the bridge now. 

Maybe a nice thing to wonder for you - maybe he was the runt and
hence set aside too and there's a couple of other perfectly
healthy kitties somewhere else who's chances were also increased
by your taking him to a new home - albeit for such a brief time. 

    
    
    	Thanks everyone.  Others have told me the same thing and it
    	does help.  As far as we know, his mom cat only had two
    	kittens.  Him and his littermate - that must have died at
    	birth because he/she was already dead when we found this
    	little tyke.
    
    	I just keeping telling myself that at least he was warm and loved
    	when he went instead of freezing to death after that rain (when
    	we took him inside).
    
    	JJ
    
    

    Judy,
    
    Sometimes first time moms abandon their kittens.  This is especially
    true of feral moms.  You did all that you could.  You gave the little
    guy a chance at survival.  This is a chance he wouldn't have had if
    you had not found him.  
    
    Hand raising kittens that young is a challenge.  Even people very 
    experienced at doing this lose kittens in this situation.  You did
    the very best you could for him.
    
    Jan  

    JJ, I'm so sorry.  But think of how warm and content he was
    with you compared to what the end of his life would have been
    like had you not taken him in.  This reminds me of my Tommy,
    who it turned out was in the final stages of FIV when I adopted him.  I
    think God leads us to these kitties so that they can be in a loving,
    warm, safe environment as they leave for the bridge.
          

    
    
    	JJ, It's tough to lose a tiny fur-person, you did your best...
    
    
    	Mike

    
    
    	Thanks everyone.   {sniff}
    
    
    	I will say that I'm very glad that Shane and I decided not
    	to go away camping this weekend.  While I'm sure he would
    	have had good care with the FELINEr who offered to care for
    	him for us, I would have been devastated to come home and fine
    	him gone.  =(   I'm glad I was there to be with him.  These little
    	critters just seem to latch onto my heartstrings and refuse to let
    	go.  
    
    	Thanks to those who sent me mail too.......
    

    JJ,
    
    I'm so sorry. I was on vacation last week, and just got back today.
    reading thru these notes I was really hoping that the little guy would
    pull thru.
    
    I'm so sorry.
    
    Deb

    JJ,
    
    You did the best you could.  Kitties, and other newborn animals are
    just really tough to raise without the milk from a similar mom.  Come
    to think of it, until sometime this century, not having a wet nurse if
    a human mom couldn't nurse was pretty high risk.
    
    meg

    Are there any FELINErs in the Eldersburg, Maryland area?
    
    My best buddy tells me she has a little stray black and white kitten
    hanging around her house.  She wants to help him out but her son
    and husband are both severely allergic to cats.  She's asked for
    recommendations from me but since I don't know that area of Maryland
    I don't know what options are available to her.  Can anyone give me a 
    hand and tell me what the options are?
    
    Jan