Conference misery::feline

    Small black squirmy things (not usually found in the fur, but...) are
    flea larvae.  You might have something else if you're finding them ON
    the cat.  Usually you can find them in bedding, or carpets or wherever.
    
    Salt and pepper like things are flea eggs and droppings.  The black
    peppery things are dried bits of blood (flea poop).  I think the clear
    things are actually eggs, which fall off the cat and eventually turn
    into the black squirmy things.
    
    That's my experience with fleas.  I hate 'em.  I've never heard of body
    mites (for cats) and my guess would be that you have fleas, courtesy of
    Mr. Surprise Visit.  I could be wrong, of course....
    
    
    kim

    Kim...I do agree with you.  I just found some very small black
    squirmy things on one of my white blankets down cellar and the
    vet said they were flea Larvae!!  I have seen zillions of fleas
    in my lifetime...but seeing this larvae was the first for me.  MOST
    flea sprays do kill the larvae!!
    
    BUT...I do believe there are mites that do live in the fur...but
    I don't believe they can me seen by the eye!!
    
    Sandy

    Notes thread 94.89-.98 has more information which you may want to
    peruse through.
    
    Carl

    To the best of my knowledge:  mites are almost unseeable with the
    naked eye.  They do a bit of burrowing into the skin too.
    
    I have never seen a flea larvae, gaaaawwwd, it's makin' my skin
    crawl!!!
    
    MItes are also not very common.
    Karen

    Karen,,,they are the most grosses thing in the world.  I was having
    flea problems in my cellar so I left a white blanket down there on
    a table where my stray sleeps.  My goal was to see if I could find
    flea dirt.   Well wasn't I surprised when I touched one of these
    larvae's and it slowly curled up until it looked like flea dirt!!
    
    The larvae is VERY small...my husband could barely see it moving!!!
    Makes me wonder in all my years what I thought was flea dirt...really
    could have been larvae!!  Oh how gross....and to think these ugly
    things turn into uglier fleas!!!
    
    Sandy (who's had a VERY bad flea season)
    

    Thanks to all who answered, and for the pointer to a discussion of
    fleas. A conversation with the vet confirmed that that's what we've
    got. Sigh. My other half is home right now, spraying and washing, and
    I'm gonna pick up some Borax and a couple of flea combs on the way
    home.  (Re: last two - at least with the larvae, you can *see* 'em and
    kill 'em!)
    
    Thanks again -
    
    Lynn

    Lynn,
    The only true way to rid yourself of the buggers before they turn 
    "pupae", is to fog.  It works.  It is not something you would want
    to do every day, but it works.  Just think, no moths, no spiders...
    It's not as gross as it sounds.  I did my grandmothers house once
    and all was well after.
    Karen

    My sister, Jo, swears by the borax treatment for flea control.
    The borax dries out the eggs so the fleas don't hatch.  She hasn't
    had a flea problem since she started using this method and she's
    a breeder so she has bunches of cats around the house at any given
    time.
    
    I believe I have her rather humorous instructions for using the borax
    method store in my ALL-IN-1 account.  I'd be happy to pass them on
    to anyone who would like them.
    
    Jan

    RE: -.1
    
    Jan, these days I'm all for anything humorous.  Please, post the
    borax instructions if you have time.
    
    Mille grazie,
    Carl

    Okay...I have to "fess up".  For the last 4 years I have also
    used Jo's Borax method and I constantly promote using it as
    a flea maintenance all year long.  In the winter I would sprinkle
    it on the rugs once a month and in the spring,fall and summer I would
    use it weekly.   
    
    Okay..so I have fleas this year...what happened???  I got lazy..I
    got flea cocky after not having a problem for years..and I didn't 
    continue with the weekly sprinkling of the Borax.  So I ended up with
    a pretty major problem in my cellar and a problem in my house.  We just
    spent the weekend using a flea spray called Duratrol everywhere.  
    
    I'll let Jan post Jo's Borax Method ... but the key is to stay on top
    of the problem.  If you are flea infested....Borax will not take care
    of the entire problem in a timely manner.  It does not kill adults...
    it kills the eggs which breaks the cycle.  I do believe in using
    Borax...but continue to use it on a regular basis. (don't get cocky
    like I did!!)
    
    Sandy

    Since some folks would like me to post it, I'll happily oblige
    
    This is exactly how I received it from Jo.  :^)
    
    Jan
    
    
                     Jo Ann's New Borax Flea Removal Method
                                  (What a Job)
    
     1.	 Go to store buy bunches of vacuum bags
    
     2.	 Vacuum entire house, throw out bag
    
     3.	 Remove cushions from sofas and chairs
    
     4.	 Spread the borax in the sofa and replace cushions (you can mix flea 
         powder with the borax if you want to) 
    
     5.	 Move all the furniture around and spread borax all over damn house
    
     6.	 Get a broom and brush it (work it) into carpet
    
     7.	 Let sit for 24 hours
    
     8.	 Put a new vacuum bag in vacuum and vacuum entire house
    
     9.	 Throw away the bag
    
    10.	 For next 3 weeks vacuum every day and throw out bag
    
    11.	 After that you just have to put borax down once a week and vacuum it 
         after 24 hours
    
    12.	 This is also good exercise and improves your cardiovascular capacity

    
    re:-2  leave borax on carpet for 24 hrs and then vaccum.... does this
          have any effects on the cats the walk around of the carpet and
          then lick their feet to cleanup? 
    
    Shaw

    No, Borax is non-toxic.
    

    And thanks also to Jo for posting the borax routine.  All that vacuuming
    sounds like a good workout.  I need to lose a few pounds, so maybe I'll
    give it a try this weekend.
    
    Carl

    When I'm in maintenance mode I mostly follow Jo's method as stated 
    with the exception that I don't leave it down for 24 hours!!  I
    just leave it down for about 2 hours and vaccumm.  What I noticed
    was even though you vaccumm if you get close to the rug you can still
    see signs of the borax between the fibers!
    
    To sprinkle it on, I use a container with holes on the top.  I also
    have added flea powder or you can also add powdered Pot Potpouri
    to give the house a slight scent.   I also throw borax (with some
    flea powder) in my vaccuum bag, sprinkle it in the trash to remove
    odors and sprinkle it on the bottom of the kitty litter..and if I run 
    out of laundry detergent I always have an extra box of Borax handy!!   
    
    If you read the back cover of the Borax...you'll be amazed what
    Borax can be used for!!  
    
    Sandy

    Well, I've lamented my flea problems with Sandy Merritt this
    past month, so it's time to share my problems and hopefully get
    some help!
    
    I have 5 adult indoor-only cats, and am currently fostering 5
    kittens, which are kept in a separate room.  When I brought the 
    kittens into the house, I noticed a flea on one of them, so I
    immediately gave them baths and vacuumed the room (with flea powder
    in the bag).  Well, a few days later, all my cats were scratching,
    and I was getting bitten (I'm allergic to flea bites).
    
    I've spent over $150 on flea products so far, and here's what
    I've done in the past month:
    
    	- Given my 5 adults FOUR flea baths in Mycodex shampoo
    	- Given the kitten one flea bath in Mycodex (they seem to 
    	  be flea free now)
    	- Sprayed the house with some kind of Raid flea spray with
    	  "egg stop formula"
    	- Bombed the cellar and upstairs with 9 Raid fumigator bombs
    	- Sprayed the cellar & upstairs with 5 bottles of Duratrol
      	  house flea spray
    
    I'm at my wits end - after each application, the fleas are back.
    The Duratrol is supposed to kill fleas in the adult and larvae
    stage, but it's been 2 1/2 weeks since I've sprayed, and I'm still
    seeing adults.  I also sprayed around the two doorways we use.
    They may be coming in from the windows, but most of my windows
    are high off the ground, with the exception of two livingroom
    windows.
    
    I'm seriously considering hiring an exterminator.  I know we
    need to leave the house while they're doing it, so I won't do it
    until the kittens are gone.  Does anyone have any recommendations
    in the Fitchburg area?
    
    If the exterminator fails - I give up - we're moving and leaving
    the fleas behind!!  
    
    thanks for any help (and for listening to my griping!!)
    Pam

    actually, if you go the exterminator route, you may not need to leave
    the house. Explain that you have cats and you want them to use
    something that isn't toxic to the cats or to you. They might have
    something. I know that when I have my yearly carpenter ant
    extermination, the extermintor I use uses something that I can't even
    smell and that won't hurt the cats.
    
    Deb

    All I can say is...I think it's the worse year EVER for fleas!!
    
    Sigh....

    Yup, I've gotten them too somehow (don't ask me how!  I live on the
    third floor and my cats don't go out!).  Anyway, so far we've given two
    flea baths to all four cats, but we'll definitely have to do it again. 
    While I'm giving baths, Bob is vaccuuming and spraying the entire house
    with some spray that we got from the vets.  However, we're STILL
    finding fleas on the cats (we've got one pure white cat, and I find
    them on her the most).
    
    To do the borax treatment in my house would be a MAJOR doing, as I have
    so much furniture that I'd have to do.  I guess the next step it to
    just bomb the place while I take the cats out of the house and give
    them all a bath that same day.  Ugh.
    
    Holly
      

    Don't feel bad Holly - a few years back when I was in a third
    floor apartment, we got infested also.  The only thing I can
    think of is I brought a flea in from outside somehow.  I doubt
    (and hope!) that a flea can't jump up three stories!!
    
    Deb - thanks for the suggestion on the exterminator.  It would
    be wonderful if we didn't have to vacate the house.  I'll look into
    it.  By the way - who did you use?  Do they do the Fitchburg area?
    
    thanks
    Pam

    Holly....I just want to set your expectation...the BOMBS didn't
    even work in Pam's house and she set off many of them! And if you
    are infested...it will take a long time to get rid of them using
    the Borax method!!
    
    I personally think fleas are becomming resistant to many sprays/
    bombs/shampoos...so over the years we have developed Bionic Fleas!!!!
    I tried to drown one the other night...and the little bugger fought
    for his life for about 15 minutes...he didn't die until I flushed
    the toilet and he got sucked in!!
    
    Sandy  
    

    Ok, so let's see .. the bomb's didn't work in Pam's house .. It'll take
    forever using the Borax method .. evidentally the flea spray the vet
    gave us didn't work either .. does anyone else have ANY other
    suggestions?  PLEASE?
    
    Holly
    

    I've even heard some Exterminators can't get rid of the problem...
    so if you do get one make sure they guarentee their work for XX days!!!
    
    Another suggestion::  Pick each one off by hand and let him die
    a slow horrible death in vasoline!!  (wow...I guess they are getting
    to me too..I'm getting crude!!)  
    
    Sandy

    
    You are supposed to comb them out with a flea comb and then break
    the bloody things in half or set them on fire with a match. ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Maybe we could nuke 'em...naw, if they're anything like roaches,
    they'd survive it. :^)
    
    I heard from a vet that only 1% of the flea problem is actually
    on that cat.  The rest is in the environment.  So, if you bomb
    the house, bathe the cat and treat the yard it would seem that
    would help.  I believe you might have to do it a second time a 
    couple of weeks later to catch any hatching eggs (or use borax 
    during that two week period to dry out the eggs so they don't hatch).
    
    Personally, I'm not too comfortable with overloading my (and my)
    cats environment with too many layers of chemicals.  I've been
    lucky that the problems I've had have been treatable with bathing
    and borax.  Every now and then, though, I do have to resort to 
    flea bombs.  I can't remember the brand I used (I'll have to look
    next time I'm in the store) but they worked really well.  I put
    2 of them in my 640 sq. ft. (1 in the kitchen/living room and 1
    in the bedroom) apartment.  One probably would have worked okay
    (according to the directions that tell how much area they cover)
    but I wanted to be sure.
    
    Jan
    

    re: .24
    
    those are ticks.
    
    
    I'm fortunate that I don't have fleas but I have another problem. I
    bought a bag of cat food at the grocery store (it was one of the
    varieties for "older cats". Anyhow, there were these little tiny redish
    - brown bugs in the bag; they aren't fleas as they are a little longer and
    thinner and don't jump; they almost look like ants except that they
    only have 6 legs. And they have feelers or antenae on their heads. It
    has been a month; everytime I think I get rid of them they reappear in
    a couple of days. I've sprayed RAID, and I've washed the area down with
    bleach and water. (and obviously, I haven't bought that brand of food
    again). They have been gone about a week now, but I'm afraid that they
    will reappear when the rain stops and the weather heats up. Does anyone
    have any idea what they are?
    
    Deb

  We (where I work) sell a bunch of products from two manufacturers - vet-kem
and basis (a.k.a. basus). I've asked the DR's about the over-the-counter stuff
and while they never say that stuff's bad, they appear to have more confidence
in the stuff we sell. I'll bet the Duratrol has Dursban in it and given that the
name looks familiar you may already have gone the vet-kem route. I'd suggest
giving the Basus Household and Kennel Spray a try (what have you got to lose at
this point, right? ;-). It contains an adulticide and an IGR that kills eggs and
larvae. It comes in a spray can that you invert and spray (like you would a rug
cleaner) rather than as a fogger. If your vet doesn't carry it, let me know and
I'll snag you a brochure on it. If you decide you want to try it they should be
able to order it for you.
  One hint when bathing with flea-killing shampoo (like the Mycodex with
pyrethrins - before bathing, take a can on animal-safe flea spray and spray a
ring around your pet's neck. It helps keep the fleas from all running up on
their head while you bath the rest of the body. And don't forget to leave the
shampoo on them for a few minutes after you apply it (we leave it on for 10 mins
for adult cats, less for younger kittens) before rinsing it off.

			  Five-pets-no-fleas-feelin'-lucky-Trace

    I haven't tried Vet-Chem.  The Duratrol came from the vets.  The other
    stuff I tried (bombs, Raid spray) was over-the-counter.
    
    Duratrol advertises that it continually kills fleas for up to 3
    months, and that it kills the larvae and adults, thereby breaking
    the cycle.  It's been almost three weeks, and I shouldn't be seeing
    any adults, but I'm still finding them.
    
    When washing the cats with Mycodex, I was careful to watch their
    heads for any "runaway" fleas.  I didn't see any.  I also shampooed
    the tops of their heads first to prevent it.  I also left the shampoo
    on for 3-5 minutes (depending on the tolerance of the cats - which
    is very low in Siamese!!)
    
    I'm just leary about throwing more money at another product which
    may not work.  It may be worth throwing another $150 or so at an
    exterminator with a guarantee than to go through all I've gone 
    through already...
    
    Pam

    I have had a minor flea problem that is actually major since one of my
    cats is extremely allergic to fleas. There is no hair at all on her
    tail. I have swept up enough fur to build two or three new cats. I'm not
    sure why she isn't completely bald. Several weeks ago, I got Basus
    from the vet on his recommendation. He uses it at his own home.
    Supposedly, you should only have to use it once a season (spring and
    fall). I sprayed the entire house with it. I used a flea foam on the
    cats (bathing is dangerous to my health and I can't spray them since
    I use a water bottle spray as punishment).  I gave a second treatment to 
    the areas most used by the cats a couple a weeks later since I saw a
    few fleas. I haven't seen very many fleas since then. An allergy shot
    and regular use of a flea comb seems to have things under control. I've
    been very lucky compared to some of the stories I've heard. BTW, my
    cats never go outside.
    
    Nancy

    When our cats went outside - we always had flea problems. I do believe
    that fleas could live through a nuclear holocaust! We would shampoo the
    cats,sometimes multiple washings, leave the shampoo on for several
    minutes (causing major wrestling matches and sometimes bloody
    arms...youch) and would still find fleas moving around on them.
    
    The products I finally found that worked for us contain the substance
    di-lemonene (spelling?). It was recommended in this notes file and I
    liked it at first because it's not toxic for cats, smells good and
    seems to kill the fleas. I used the shampoo on the cats, the sprays and
    foggers on the house.
    
    When we moved we were really paranoid about bringing any fleas with us,
    so everything (furniture, rugs, cloths, etc.) got heavily zapped with
    spray the day the movers came (after being sprayed and vacuuemed
    before this.
    
    the new house was flea free for 3 years. Our cats don't go outside.
    Then, while cat-sitting for the neighbors (going to their house,
    feeding and playing with cats) we brought fleas back in.... went
    through the wash/spray and fog routine (with lots of vacuuming) and
    that took care of the problem. Now, when we cat sit the neighbors cats,
    we either wash down before coming in the house (if bare legs) or
    immediately put all cloths in the wash after spraying, then lots of hot
    water and soap (of course, so we stop petting and hugging their
    kitties?... no...)
    
    Anyway - some hints (after many words):
    	Spray often and then vacuum. I used a 2 day cycle, figuring that
    the fleas were all on a different schedule and I didn't want to let
    them reproduce.
    	Spray everything - floors (vinyl & wood, not just rugs), curtins,
    furniture, bedding, under the bed, behind stuff (this is where a fogger
    can help). I also did daily spraying of the "main" cat areas.
    	When you vacuum - spray the bag and immediately throw it out
    (outside can, with plastic bag tied tight)
    	Assume the fleas are everywhere and treat according.
    	You need to do everything at the same time. A washed cat, going
    into an infested room will get re-infested.
    	Keep this up for at least several weeks (or until the cats and you
    stop scratching).
    	
    Good luck - with mites - you may not have to be quite to vigerous, but
    it probably wouldn't hurt. They probably have a life cycle similar to
    fleas, so frequent and redundant treatments might be needed.
    
    ok- enough of this, I'm sitting at my desk at work getting the itcheys!
    
    janetb.

    Well, I've decided to go with an exterminator.  I'm not fooling
    around with bombs and sprays anymore!
    
    I'm going with Montachusett Pest Control.  You do need to leave
    the house for 4 hours, but I've booked in on the day the kittens
    are being fixed, so that takes care of them.  Next project is 
    figuring out what to do with my 5 adults!  I suppose I should take
    them to the vets to be flea bathed.  That would save me from doing
    it and figuring out what to do with them!  
    
    The cost is reasonable - $160 (minus a $10 coupon I have so it
    will be $150).  They guarantee their work for 6 months.  My parents
    used them almost 3 years ago.  They have an inside-outside dog and
    cat, and haven't had a flea in their house since.  At the time, their
    dog had a TERRIBLE flea problem that caused him to pull chunks of
    his hair out from scratching.  Since the extermination, he hasn't
    been bothered by them hardly at all, and his coat is full and
    beautiful.
    
    "Flea-D Day" is scheduled for Tuesday, August 30.  Stay tuned
    for the results...
    
    Pam

    When we had a problem a few years back, we used Duratrol (sp?)
    which we got from the vet.  It, coupled with Borax and a flea bath 
    or two for the crew worked, although I still saw a flea from time 
    to time until it got cold outside.  Since I have fairly severe asthma, 
    we are limited in what products we can use.  The Borax and Duratrol
    combined with flea baths worked pretty well for us. 
    
    Mary-Michael (Red, Mips, Belle, Rocky, Moki and Cleo the ferret) 

    Remember, fleas can enter the house on YOU.  So, even if you're pets
    are indoor only, you can get fleas because you go in and out. Once
    indoors, the fleas hop off (perhaps not finding you to their liking)
    and go visit your cats.
    
    Before long, flea problem.
    
    
    They certainly are annoying little buggers!
    
    
    kim

    Mites are another creature and require a different trick.
    You must use Rotenone to get rid of them.  They are microscopic and
    will burrow into your skin.  People do get them.  Take a Rotenone
    shower with your cat for closeness !! ;'}
    Karen

    I give up - UNCLE! - fleas are taking over my life, and I can't
    take it anymore!!!
    
    We had the exterminator come on August 30.  That morning, we vacuumed
    EVERYWHERE, threw away the bag.  Packed up the cats and gave them
    a flea bath.  The guy sprayed "Diazanon" (or something like that),
    spraying every square inch of the house including closets, basement,
    couches and stuffed chairs.  We waited four hours for the stuff to
    dry before going back in with the cats.  The exterminator had left
    a flea spray called "Petcor", which I hadn't planned to use unless
    absolutely necessary.
    
    Well, two days later, the cats were scratching again, and I found
    fleas in the fleacomb.  I decided to spray them (big mistake).  A few
    hours after spraying them, they all started drooling.  I figured they
    must have cleaned themselves and swallowed a little, and that it was
    the same reaction as when they swallow a bitter pill - a little foaming
    at the mouth - no big deal.  
    
    The next morning, they were still drooling, and April, one of my
    Siamese, was walking around with her back arched in the air.  Like
    a dummy, I went to to work before calling the vet.  I wasn't at work
    for 10 minutes, when the vets office told me they were having a 
    reaction, and to wash the stuff off IMMEDIATELY.  I sped home doing
    75-80 MPH and washed all the cats with a mild shampoo, then rushed
    them all to the vets.  They were given a shot to settle their stomachs.
    Luckily, they all were doing better that night and started eating
    again, and April started walking normally.  I threw the spray in the
    trash, which I regret now, because I found an old note where someone
    else had the same problem.  I wish I kept the bottle so that I could
    write a NASTY note to this company!!
    
    It's been almost three weeks since the extermination, and my cats
    still have fleas.  I called the exterminator, who gave me a 6-month
    guarantee, and he told me that we must have "missed" a few eggs on the
    cats, and they're now hatching - he told me to give them another
    flea bath.  I related the disaster of the flea spray, and I really
    doubt there were any living eggs or fleas after almost killing my
    cats with the stuff!  Plus every vet I've spoken to says fleas don't
    live or lay eggs on the cats - they live on the rugs and hardwood
    floors.
    
    I did give them all a flea bath this weekend, but I'm still finding
    fleas.  I suppose I'll have the exterminator come again to spray,
    although I'm leary of having more chemicals thrown at my cats since
    they've already gotten sick.  I doubt Borax will help at this point,
    if warfare chemicals haven't done the trick.
    
    I'm at my wits end and never been so frustrated in all my life!!
    Bombs, sprays, even exterminators can't get rid of my flea problem!
    Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!
    
    

    Pam ... just something to let you know that you're not alone.  While I
    think I've got the flea problem licked, a friend of mine hasn't.
    
    She has 12 cats.  She had a very bad misfortune a few weeks ago, her
    house burned.  Caused about $75,000 damamage.  The cats are ok, as the
    person who initially found the fire got the cats out somehow.
    
    Anyway, when they went to inspect the house, she STILL found fleas in
    the house!  She calls them "bionic fleas". (-:
    
    Holly
    

    Wow - that's awful about the house!  Thank goodness no one was
    killed/hurt - she was very lucky to have her cats saved!
     
    And it doesn't surprise me that the fleas survived.  At this point,
    I don't think a nuclear device will kill them.  I'm ready to move
    out and let the fleas take over!!

    It's a tough year for fleas...I do believe they have become
    immune to many of the flea sprays/dips/bombs!!!
    
    Last week my husband bought a mini microscope....so all weekend
    long we have been looking at "things" using the scope!!!  Well I
    found a flea and drowned it in dish detergent and then we
    decided to look at the little creature under the microscope.  After
    looking at it for about 5 minutes (boy are they UGLY) under the
    bright light....we saw a little movement in the leg.  Well I thought
    it must be his nerves....BUT within another few minutes his body
    started moving under the microscope and low and behold...the little
    critter came back to life!!!  AMAZING........they don't die!!!!
    
    Sandy

    I found a sure way to kill them when I find them.  
    
    
    
    
    Split them in half with my fingernail!  Sounds gross, but it works!
    
    Ugh .. 
    
    Holly
    

    
    re: split them in half,  I know its gross but my girlfriend does 
    the same thing. 
    
    Pam, if you have any windows near the ground low enough the the fleas
    can jump through the screen , then that's what's happening. 
    We bombed the house twice, already, sprayed and shampooed the cats on a 
    weekly basis, and untill we decided that no more open windowns until
    a couple below freezing nights, we haden't quite gotten rid of them. 
    
    We still occassionaly find one or two with the flea comb and just 
    split the darn things. This is a bad year for them, we never had a 
    problem last year. 
    
    Shaw

    The ONLY way to kill them is to split them in half.  Or drop
    them in soapwater.  The darn things don't die when you just
    squeeze them.  I've even had a few that were still moving around 
    when they were in pieces - yucko!!
    
    And I thought about the windows, but the past few weeks have
    been pretty cool out so the windows haven't been open - 
    especially the windows close to the ground.  We opened a few
    windows this weekend for the first time in weeks, but only the
    ones high off the ground.  Supposedly the stuff they sprayed 
    was supposed to kill fleas that even came in from the outside 
    for up to 30 days.  So I don't understand why they're not dying.  
    
    Looks like another call to the exterminator is in order...
    I hate this, I really hate this...

    usually when a home is sprayed the flea's and almost any creepy
    crawling bugs are killed.  However, note that flea's can live out
    side, especailly in sandy area's.  I had this same problem once and
    I live near a sand pit. The kids brought them home on their shoes and
    clothes, resulting in one poor dog and cat being flea dipped 3 times a
    year.  The outside flea's are a big problem until it get cold.  
    
    
        Good luck, I solved my problem when I moved away..We were happy and
        1 dog and cat were very happy, look mom no more dips... :)
    
    
                       dot

    Well, believe me - after all this, I've thought about moving
    away!!  I hope it doesn't come down to that!!

    Pam...you just moved in that beautiful house...boy you must be 
    frustrated!!!  BUT just remember when you lived in the third floor 
    apartment...you had fleas then too!!!  They'll find you anywhere@!!!!!
    
    Keep you chin up...and keep squishing those &^%$## Fleas!!! It's real
    fun putting them in vasoline and watch them struggle to their death!!!
    
    Sandy
    

    I had a flea discussion with my vet just last night. He told me there
    was no product available to kill fleas when they are in the pupae(?)
    stage - when they are in their hard little cocoon-like shells. 
    
    I haven't seen adult fleas for a while (knock wood) since I used
    Basus. I do find flea dirt on my cat so there must be some around
    somewhere. She is highly allergic to fleas. The vet said I should use 
    the Basus again if it had been more that 3 weeks since the last treatment. 
    You can't just treat everything once. You have to keep repeating it until 
    you've truly broken the life cycle of the fleas. I'm not sure how you 
    know you've done that. No one wants to hear this, but inspite of a
    warm, rainy summer, we've had just a minor bout with fleas this year at
    our house. (knock lots of wood!)
    
    Nancy

    Well, I'm slowly but surely torturing and killing my cats - and I feel
    like a horrible mom!!!
    
    This weekend, like a fool and knowing full well it probably wouldn't
    do any good - I bought flea collars for all my cats and put them on.
    I came home from work last night and was on the phone when I saw Lily
    literally CLIMBING the walls.  She had gotten the collar caught in
    her bottom jaw, and she was bleeding!!  I was alone, and it was all
    I could do to get her to be still enough to cut the collar off.  The
    poor thing just laid there - conscious, but in a stupor and breathing
    heavily!! 
    
    I immediately rushed her to the vets (thank God Fallon Animal Clinic
    is just down the street and open til 8:00) and they examined her right
    away.  She got a cut inside her upper lip.  The vet didn't seem to 
    think she needed stitches and that it would probably heal OK on its
    own.  She did give me antibiotics.
    
    When I was in the waiting room paying my bill, I started rambling
    to the vet and vettechs about my flea problem.  Someone in the
    waiting room said "is your first name Pam".  And I thought - Oh
    God, my flea problem must be public!  It was Deb Jancaitis!!
    (Hi Deb!)  
    
    I feel so horrible and guilty!  I'm just thinking what if this
    happened when I wasn't home!  The poor thing could have broken her
    jaw - or worse, died of a heart attack - she was so stressed out!!!
    As soon as I got home, I took ALL the collars off and threw them
    away.  Even cats that don't go outside are at risk of hurting
    themselves.  At least with a breakaway collar, she wouldn't have
    gotten hurt, but these were regular collars.
    
    I've got my bruises too - in trying to keep her still, my left
    hand got shredded.  So I'm calling my doctor today to find out
    if my tetanus shots are up to date.
    
    My poor cats should be poster-kitties for the "Don't let this
    happen to your cat" campaign!!  I'm telling you, these fleas will
    be the death of me and my family!!
    
    Sorry to ramble on, but I have to let this out to people who car
    and understand - and I know you all do!
    
    Pam

    Pam, 
    
    Hang in there.  You're not a horrible mom.  The things that are 
    happening to you and the cats could have happened to anyone.  You're
    doing the best you can to do the right thing for them.
    
    As for the pupae (sp) stage of fleas.  This is one of the things the 
    Borax is good for.  It dries out those eggs so that they don't hatch.
    
    Jan 

    Jan - thanks for the nice words - it makes me feel a little
    less guilty, although not all...
    
    Is it worth it for me to try the Borax at this stage?  It seems
    like a whole bunch of eggs just hatched, because I between 2 cats
    I combed out 4-5 fleas just last night.  Do I need to do something
    to kill the fleas, or just let them die on their own and hope that
    the Borax kills the new eggs?
    
    And should I also be treating hardwood and basement floors?  Or
    carpets only?  Do fleas lay eggs on these types of floors?  I get
    tired just thinking about doing the Borax routine on my whole house!!
    
    thanks
    Pam

    You're welcome.  Please don't feel guilty (easy to say, hard to do).
    
    At this point, what have you got to lose except the time it takes
    to lay the borax down.  Try the borax and see if it helps at all.
    Even a small improvement is better than nothing.
    
    During a seminar at the Reveler's Cat Show a vet said that only 1%
    of the flea problem is actually on the cat, the rest is in the 
    environment.
    
    I think what I'd do at this point in your situation is:
    
    1.  Remove the cats and totally rebomb the house with type of bomb 
        that says it kills the eggs (or at least keeps them from hatching)
        for x number of days.
    
    2.  Put the borax down on the carpets, floors, furniture.  Leave it 
        for a least a few hours before vacuuming.  I'd probably vacuum it
        off the floors and furniture while leaving it on the rug longer.
    	If the flea problem is as bad as it sounds, toss the bag soon 
        afterwards lest they crawl back out (sneaky guys aren't they).
    
    3.  Bathe each cat or have them professionally groomed and/or dipped.
        (if they're okay with groomers and if you can afford it--I can't)  
        After the bath comb all the remaining semi-dead fleas off, drown
        them in soapy water and flush down the toilet (no guarantee they
        won't climb back out if you rinse them down a sink).  Actually, 
        I've found that I don't always have to use flea shampoo...what 
        doesn't rinse off when I bathe them usually gets combed out when 
        I dry them.  Besides, most flea shampoos say you have to leave 
        them on the cat 10 minutes to get results.  Right!  I doubt they've
        tried it.  When I do use flea shampoo I use "Flea Stop" (I think
        that's the name.  I pour it on the cat's back straight from the 
        bottle then run the water over it for a second to dilute it somewhat
        and to make it easier to spread around.  I soap the cat down for 
        a minute then rinse, rinse, rinse.  I'm not comfortable leaving 
        that stuff on my cats for very long.
    
    4.  Flea collar the cats.  I'm currently using the VetKem break-away 
        collars on the 4 fosters with success.  They were covered in fleas.
        Three of them got baths and the 4th wouldn't allow water to touch 
        her regal hide for anything.
    
    5.  Get some type of product to use outside the house.
    
    Do all of this as close together as possible without overloading the
    animals with chemicals (and without killing yourselves from the effort
    in the process).  As always, be careful about the number of layers of 
    chemicals you pile on especially since your cats do seem sensitive to 
    them.  Try to stick to the same brand if possible. 
    
    I usually go for the vet recommended products over something off the
    store shelf.  So far VetKem (sp) has worked pretty well for me.  I've
    used the bombs and flea collars with good luck.  And, I always put out 
    more of the bombs in the house than the directions say are required.  
    They say they cover a certain square footage each but I usually add one 
    more to be sure.
    
    The above is the plan of action I would probably take with a terrible
    problem.  DISCLAIMER:  Your mileage may vary.  Free advice is worth
    what you pay for it.  Void where prohibited. :^)
    
    Good luck.  We're here for more moral support if you need it.
    
    Jan

    Since you paid big bucks for the exterminators who guarentee their
    work for 6 months...I would definitely give them a call back and
    ask them for another application.  You can tell them that you have
    multiple cat people waiting to see the results of your house after
    using them.   THEN....once the fleas are gone I'd start using the 
    Borax method to KEEP them away.  Every week just spread the borax 
    before you vaccumm the house!!!
    
    As far as hardwood floors....I was told that fleas can hatch their
    eggs in cracks or they like the darkness of the corners or outside
    edges.  
    
    Sandy 

    I tend to want to stick to Sandy's advice - after all I DID get
    a supposed 6 month guarantee - and the fleas were back in two days!!
    
    Rather than spend more bucks on bombs, I think I'll try the
    exterminators one more time, then try the Borax method right away
    to kill any remaining eggs.  My problem right now is booking it
    when the kittens are gone (yes, I still have the kittens at my
    house - they're due for their rabies/second shots tonight, and 
    hopefully I'll get a few adopted soon afterward - I hate bringing
    them back to the crowded shelter...)
    
    If that doesn't work - I'm moving to Alaska!  (are there fleas in 
    Alaska??)
    
    Pam

    
    
    	It will help to have your carpets steam cleaned. The water is
    	some 180 degrees. This will cook'em.  Plus the carpet will be
    	clean and fresh....
    
    	Mike

    Has anyone ever seen what look like large, striped fleas
    on their cats?
    
    My little one seems to be more prone to fleas than Mandy (the
    2 1/2 year old) and when I check her head area I have noticed
    several things that look like fleas on the front (same legs)
    but are SLIGHLTY larger and have stripes...the vet suggested
    that they might be engorged fleas ready to lay eggs.
    
    Yuk--now I'm taking them in tomorrow morning and having them
    bathed while I bomb the house with Vetchem and pick them up
    after work.  Hopefully this will solve the problem?

    Yup, I've seen these.  Pretty nasty looking.  I thought they were a
    different stage of the flea, like the pupae stage, but I don't know
    ANYTHING about their life cycles.  I just kill 'em when I see 'em : )
    Sarah

    It was really kind of gross, though--when I went to
    snap them like with normal fleas some white stuff came
    out.  EEEWWW!!!
    
    I've just been running them down the drain with really
    hot water...
    
    Not a fun morning! I took two VERY angry kitties to the
    vet for baths and bought foggers to bomb my apartment. The
    vet made me sign a form that releases them to anesthetize them
    if they have to during the bath.  I know it will be difficult,
    but I asked them to try not to. I just don't like the idea.
    
    The foggers that I bought were SYNER--something--I hope they do
    the job!
    
    Alicia