Conference misery::feline

    Diane,
    
    My Kelsey does that.  When he was about 8 months old I leash trained
    him, and he loved the outdoors.  Because it was such a pain to walk him
    and I didn't want him roaming freely on his own, I took a very long
    piece of rope, tied his leash to the end, tied the other end to the
    bottom deck post, and Kelsey had his own run.  He loved it!  I would
    never let him out unsupervised; I'd sit on the deck and read and was
    there to untangle him if he got into trouble.  But mostly he just
    enjoyed sitting under the trees and breathing in the fresh air,
    watching the kids play, etc.
    
    Now we are in a third floor apt. and Kelsey is not a happy camper.  He
    sits in the open window peering through the screen and crying.  I'll
    take him on the balcony with me but it isn't enough for him; he wants
    to be on ground level rolling in the grass and dirt.  I'm currently
    searching for a new place to live where it will be safe to give Kelsey
    a run again.
    
    If you have the free time, why not try this.  It will mean sacrifcing
    your time to watch her, but if you're outside anyway doing chores or
    something I'll be she would enjoy it immensely.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I wouldn't really let your cat out especially because she is declawed.
    Very risky in this day and environment.  I have 3 cats that I tie on
    a leach, sit on the back deck, and watch them when the good weather is
    here.  They don't mind the collars and leaches, and kind of like me out
    there with them.  There have been so many cats out missing lately, and
    especially ones that are declawed.  Very scary.
    

    I think the run or taking her out on a leash sounds like a good option. 
    Even though I'm not a cat owner that wishes her own cats to run free, I
    do understand why people do let their cats out.  I do not, however,
    think that you should let your cat out unsupervised since she is
    declawed.  I think that would leave your cat in a very dangerous
    situation.
    
    Just my .02...
    
    michele (precious, princey, pookie, pepper and pickles)

    I am having a similar problem with my cat.  I have two, a male and a
    female, both neutered but with claws.  The female is shy, and is really
    not a problem about keeping her inside.  Last summer she was happy to
    be on the deck with me, and since I have the bottom of it meshed in,
    and since she is afraid of everything, she was ok out there.  The male,
    however, is a different story.  He is 9 months old, neutered in
    February, and sits at the doo yowling like a female cat in heat.  He
    has been on the deck twice; both times he lept to the ground from the 
    partition
    dividing my deck from the one next door (about two stories altogether).
    Since he is a little tough guy, over 10lbs already and strong, this did
    not phase him one bit.  Yesterday I took him out on the leash afterwork
    for the first time, and he had no problems with it.  After a half an
    hour when I went to get the other one, they both escaped; she to runn 2
    feet to the deck post, he to run yards to the street.
    I don't want to let them out, for all the reasons everybody says you
    shouldn't, but this yowling is driving me crazy (Since Sunday).  I
    called the vet, and asked if it was because his male hormones hadn't washed 
    out of his system since the operation, and they said they should be
    gone by now, and that this was behavior associated with females in
    heat.  Did they take too much?? or not enough??  The vet tech said 
    (while laughing at me) to let them know if it continues!?!
    
    Can anybody give me some much needed advice?  I am still pretty new at
    cat owning, the female (Miss Sarah Vaughan) is my first cat, and I;ve
    had her a year and ahalf.  I couldn't leave well enough alone, so I got
    her a partner.
    

    Re: 0   If your kitty is declawed and you live on a busy road...
    I would suggest getting your kitty use to walking with a leash/harness.
    The odds would be totally against him if he goes out unsupervised.
    
    Another suggestion (if you can afford it) would be to build your kitty
    a nice outsided enclosed area.   This could get expensive...but your
    kitty would be "happy...but safe"!!
    
    I do have outdoor cats...and if I was to start over and had LESS cats
    I would definitely make them indoor kitties.   Having outdoor kitties
    you live with many more worries...but you also deal with worms, fleas,
    mites, cuts/bruises, and other diseases they could catch.   
    
    Sandy

    
    I want to thank all of you for your response.  I think I will try her
    on a leash/harness tonite.  Someone else told me to try this but I
    thought it was cruel.  I quess not.
    
    thanks

    Diane,
    
     I thnk the leash/harness idea is a good one too. Don't be at all
    surprised if your kitty goes 'lawn surfing' when you first try it
    though! ;-) 
    
     If you don't know what lawn surfing is, it's when you put a colar or
    harness and leash on a cat, and all of a sudden they look like you put
    1,000 pounds on their back and they squish doen into the lawn. The only
    way to move them at this point is to 'drag' them, which looks like
    surfing!
    
     With time they get used to it though. I'd try it inside first until
    kitty gets used to the funny weight.
    
     Good luck!
    
     Love,
    
     Yonee

    Leash or indoor. Leash is not cruel. Smokey goes also walking on a
    leash (mostly sitting on my shoulder, though... just walk five miles
    with ten pounds of cat on your neck! But I would do anything for her.)
    
    Nat

    I have a cat, Tigger, that I used to take out on a leash.  Then one
    day he pulled the leash out of my hand and ran into the neighbor's
    yard.  I couldn't find him for four hours.  Around 8:00 P.M., after the
    traffic noises had died down, I went outside again and called him.  I
    could faintly hear him meowing in the woods behind the house.  I
    finally found him about 30 feet up a tree with his leash tangled in a
    branch so he couldn't get down.  My neighbor's ladder didn't reach,
    but my cousin came up about 11:00 P.M. with his 40 foot ladder.  When
    he reached Tigger, he unhooked the leash and Tigger very politely
    walked up his arm, settled on his shoulder and had a lovely ride to the
    ground.  I, having spent three hours in the woods because I didn't want
    to leave "the poor baby" alone, was mosquito bitten and later found out
    I had poison ivy on both legs.  
    
    Tigger is now an indoor cat.  I have a screened in porch on the front
    of the house where he is content to watch the birds and squirrels that
    come to the feeders.  He gets out every once in a while, but I don't
    think he knows what to do when he gets out there.  He's not that hard
    to catch.
    
    So, when you are taking your babies for a walk, hold VERY TIGHTLY to
    the leash!

>
>    I have a cat, Tigger, that I used to take out on a leash.  Then one
>    day he pulled the leash out of my hand and ran into the neighbor's
>    yard.  I couldn't find him for four hours.  Around 8:00 P.M., after the
>

Having grown up with large dogs I was taught to ALWAYS put my hand THROUGH the
loop at my end of the leash and then to grasp its strap in my hand - kind of
like wearing it as a bracelet - that way the dog has to pull your wrist off
before it can get free...........

- jw

       I agree with the leash and/or outdoor enclosure... I've had the
    unique experience more than once of having a cat go 'lawn surfing', and
    they will also do so while stubbornly lying on there side as you tug
    them along. What's even funnier is to sort of ignore them and look the
    other way....sneaking a peak now and then....and seeing the cat very
    stealthily begin to WALK with that terrible thing on them...never
    getting out of a flattened crouch, but oozing along nevertheless. If
    they sense that you ARE watching, they immediately goe back into their
    "mule" imitation...
    
       If you or someone you know is handy with tools, a fairly cheap
    enclosure can be built by using 2 X 4 lumber and chicken wire. Most
    cats are not VIOLENT about escaping...they prefer the "stealth"
    technique rather than ripping things to pieces to get out. Chicken
    wire, if properly installed, will provide them safety and you still may
    be able to buy them a can of food now and then after it's paid for.
    There ARE some really neat commercial outdoor kitty condos on the
    market, but they are NOT real cheap!
    
      JM

    Some cats are just content with sitting there and looking around.  Some
    like to walk around and explore.  They are all different.
    
    As for the leash being cruel....I figure, my cats have known nothing
    else, so they don't know what they are missing.  How different is it
    than a dog......
    
    Have fun.....And keep your patience....Because your cat might enjoy
    just sitting there in the grass longer than you'd prefer to stand there
    watching...
    
    michele

       Actually, there are some breeds that take quite readily to walking
    on a leash! Siamese typicaly will not give you much trouble, but the
    younger they are when the leash is begun, the easier it is to get them
    into it. I had a male Siamese who LOVED to walk on leash with me. The
    only thing I had to be aware of was trees---because he'd climb EVERY
    tree that he came to....so I had to take some care when he did this. 
      We DID get some double-takes from folks not used to seeing a cat
    walking along like a dog...
    
      JMc

    
    ditto on putting your hand through the loop on the end of the leash. 
    It could be very dangerous to have an escaped cat trailing a leash. 
    (Dangerous to the cat.)
    
    They are all different out doors too.  The Princess *LOVES* to go
    outside in our back yard on her leash.  The thing is,  uhmm, well, oh
    okay, I'll confess, she walks ME.  I go where ever she wants or she
    will pull FLAT CAT and will demand that I pick her up and apologise!!!
    
    Sigh, she really has me well trained.
    
    Feline Owned,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spots & Cinnamon
    

When I was about 7, a black tomcat followed me home after I'd been out
selling G.S. cookies.  He stayed and stayed, and eventually we accepted
the fact that we'd been adopted and began feeding him.  When we traveled
in the summer or moved, we'd put him on a leash and he'd go everywhere
with us.  I remember thinking it was normal and wondered why people 
sometimes seemed to be surprised to see a cat on a leash.  He didn't seem
to mind it one bit.

Leslie

    
    
    I want to thank all of you for your advice.  Well, I did try the
    harness/leash on Mitzu.  It was kind of funny at first to see her
    scrunch down like there was alot of weight on her back. 
    
    Know there is only one problem.  I took her out over the weekend and
    know I don't seem to be able to keep her in the house.  Sunday morning
    before I even got out of bed my husband went out to go to the dump and
    quess who decided she wanted to go out on her own.  She ran out the
    door before my husband could close it.  We did get her but know it
    seems as if I started something and Mitzu won't except not being able
    to go out.  She will sit at the door and cry or she will be sneaky and
    wait for you to open the door and dash out.  Help, what have I started
    and? Do I stop taking her out? I love my cat and I don't want anything
    to happen to her.  Any advice would be appreciated.
    
    
    Diane and Mitzu

    Ah, this is exactly why I had to stop taking Onyx and/or Mac out
    on a leash.  The more the went out the more they wanted to go 
    out.  They'd bolt for the patio door each time it was opened.
    
    I decided to not take them out any more.  My neighborhood is very
    close to a busy street and has tons of stray cats running around
    in various states of good and bad health.  Should they get out 
    without a leash it could be a big problem.  It is not in their best 
    interest for me to encourage their desire to be outside so...they
    don't get to go out anymore.
    
    Good luck with Mitzu.  I hope you find a good solution for both of
    you.
    
    Jan

    
    
    Thanks for putting that reply in. I had been wondering about taking my
    babies out on harnesses. But it seems like they might be better off 
    indoors. They have already accepted being indoors and are happy. 
    I think untill we move to a safer neighborhood, they are safer indoors.
    
    As an aside, we've been having problems with this one black and white
    long hair stray cat. He show's up in the middle of the night, our
    bedroom has this sliding door that is on the ground level, so this 
    cat comes out of the bushed and run straight for our cats at the
    window.
    Last night we woke up to Tomba (huge maine coon cat) screaming I had 
    never seen him so mad. This stray had jumped at the window and this
    time had a nail cut in the screen so was just sorta stock there. 
    The moment I showed up though he (I am assuming he is a whole male)
    managed to free himself and flee. Our cats get very disturbed the 
    past few night that he has been doing this. 
    The animal officer has been very active in our area (Seabrook/Hampton)
    Unfortunately so far all the strays that he has picked up around our
    neighbourhood have been tested at Seacost Animal Clinic and have all 
    tested possitive for Feline AIDs. Is there an epedemy (sp?) Is this
    because now it is matting season and it spread even more. Are the
    kitties automaticaly born with this desease also if one of the parents
    is possitive? This is too sad. 
    
    Shaw 

    I got home early the other day and since it was so nice out, I put
    my two on their leashes (they start meowing and walking in circles
    in front of the door when I get the leashes out) and put them on 
    their run at the bottom of my front porch.  
    
    I went inside for 5 minutes to change clothes, and when I came back
    out, a very agressive white neighborhood cat was attacking them.
    There was gray fur everywhere, and Dixie was ready to kill that
    cat!  Unfortunately, she's never had to defend herself, and with
    no claws, she wouldn't have succeeded anyway.
    
    I learned my lesson!  Never again will I leave them even for a minute
    while they're outside.  I never had before, and should never have done
    it then.  Fortunately, no harm was done, but I'm sure not taking that 
    chance again!
    
    And yes, I have to watch the door closely every time it's opened so 
    Dixie doesn't run out.  Max(illa) (15 pounds) is mama's boy, and won't
    go out without me, so I don't have to worry about him.
    
    Max's favorite thing to do outside is roll in the dirt.  Long hair,
    and lots of it - takes me forever to get him house-worthy when he's
    finished.
    
    Dixie eats the grass and just walks around - she seems more content
    and not as jumpy as Max.  He's always ready to come inside first,
    then meows for her if she stays out too long.  It's his "mraowwwww"
    (Where is she?) meow, so I have to go bring her to him.
    
    You're right - it's a major undertaking to get the cats some sunshine
    and fresh air.  Untangling leashes, etc.    Whew!  I'm tired just
    thinking about it.
    
    BUT THEY'RE WORTH IT!!!
    
    Sharon
          

    Up until Barney adopted us, I have only had indoor cats, from
    childhood.  
    
    Bandit is strictly an indoor, declawed model.  He will, though, go up
    to the door and scream, we swear he is saying OUT!!, it sure sounds
    like that to everyone.  When we open the outside door, he's gone!  I
    mean gone INSIDE to hide!  A couple times we have taken himout to the
    grass in the front yard (we have afairly sizable front yard) once it
    was sunny, but the sprinkler was on.  I purposely walked into the
    sprinkler, trying to give him a "negative" experience on the outside,
    thinking he'd stop asking.  The next time it was raining, same thing,
    the first raindrop hit his head, he was gone hiding!  We let him out on
    a sunny day last summer, he poked around the grass, my husband stayed
    close in case we had to lunge and grab for him.  He hid under the blue
    spruce in the front yard, and wouldn't budge.  Seemed quite content. 
    Let me tell you it wasn't comfortable crawling into a Christmas tree
    after a cat!  Never again, at least until I get a harness and leash.
    He is content to sit in the window and look out.
    
    I did have a cat quite some time ago, who wore a leather collar, walked
    quite nicely on a leash, but he only wanted to go out when there was
    SNOW!  Now that is really strange!
    
    My mother's white persian, growing up would only go out on the top
    porch only, again would go to the door and skedaddle up if any noises
    occured.

    
    I've had indoor cats who when taken outside for the first time seemed
    terrified by the lack of a ceiling.  They scrunch themselves down flat
    against the ground and run (slither) for the nearest cover.
    
    Has anybody else seen this reaction?
    
    THe first time Merlin went outside, he got so worked up he tossed his
    cookies.  I've since refrained from taking him outside; he (and the
    "kittens" seem quite content to view the world from their balcony.
    
    len.
    

Len,

When Sabrina went out for the first time, she was already a year old.  She
reacted the same way as the kitty you describes, flattened herself to the ground
and kinda crawled for cover!

This is the first year my cats will be indoor cats.  I live in a fairly "safe"
neighborhood, we're the last house on a dead end street, there are woods next
to us and we have a large mostly fenced in back yard.  Unfortunately, for cats
there is no safe neighborhood.  Alot of people have their lawns chemically 
treated, the wood abound with rabid squirrels, raccoons, dogs, ferals and
strays.  Now there's talk about the coyotes and the hawks.  Mine are already
howling to get out, but it's just too bad, they're staying in.  I have a 
back porch they can sit out in, and they have access to almost every window
sill in the house.  I'll have to start growing some greens for them, too.

I tried a leash on Sabrina.  She climbs my legs like they're trees.  She also
jumps straight up about 5' in the air repeatedly when she's on a leash.  I've
tried putting Buki on a cat harness, but he gets out of every kind I've been
able to find.

I wish it was safe for them outside.  I love to see them stalking little bugs
and leaves outside, but I've lost two cats already because they were out, and
Sabrina's come really close to death twice as a result of being outside.  In
my mind there's no debate as to whether or not cats should go out!!

Laura

    re:  .20
    
    Meow when uttered near a closed door = ME-OUT
    
    Jan

    Chief has the "ME-OUT" down pat. He will be by the door, point his
    nose toward the handle and do that "ME-OUT".  if that does not work
    he will reach for the knob and act as if he would open it if he could.
    
    Sandy
    
    

    I also had a cat that begged to go outside. I finally did what
    you have done and bought a halter.  She loved going out, but I created
    a monster, who always wanted out.  One day she made a dash for it
    when the federal express man dropped off a package.  I didnt
    know she got out.  She was out all day and when I finally found
    her she had been off in the woods.  She was ok, but as I found out a
    few days later, she had FLEAS.  I had to bomb the house, do her
    and her brother.  It took weeks to get them all (eggs in the
    carpet) and I said NEVER again.  She is an indoor kitty
    only now and has adjusted.   I was lucky she didn't get
    hit by a car or attacked by a dog.  Indoor kitties live
    longer.  We have made them a great cat tree and they have a
    sheltered outdoor screened porch they can use.
    
    just my 2cents
       

    I have always been a true believer that cats should be allowed to go
    outside, and I have lost two to cars (out of 6 cats over the many
    years). But I now have a kitten and I have taken him out a few times
    (while Im within grabbing distance)....my feelings have changed this
    time and I really am not sure what to do....its not something someone
    can tell me, pro or con, its something Im feeling inside of me. As of
    right now he does not go out, and if he is allowed to it will not be
    until next spring....I might get a harness for right now, as he is
    really wanting to go out and play with the birds that feed in the yard
    :')
    
    BTW beside the two that were hit by cars, the others lived beyond 10
    years of age one was 18 when he passed away in his sleep....
    
    Chris

    
    I debated this issue a while back and even asked in here and always
    thought that it would be cruel to keep them indoors. We lost a cat
    at my previous location to a either a coydog or a fox.
    My current three cats are strictly indoors, including a huge male 
    Maine Coon which was and in/out door cat for his first 2 years and 
    came to us unnueterd. 
    They have all adjusted fine. Have plenty of toys and things to climb
    on, we play with them with their feather toys and such so they get 
    plenty of exercise. They are happy sitting in the window watching
    the birds and they don't have to go out and kill the beautiful birds
    or poop on the neighbors flower gardent either ;-)
    But seriously the most improtant thing to me has been the bonding that
    is a lot stronger. The in/out cats I had although were loving had a 
    lot more independence that cats are known for. As they played out all 
    day, came home to drop on somebody's lap or pass out on the bed. After
    they had their meals, they were more like friendly tenants for bed and
    breakfast that occassionaly will pay you with a purr or a head butt 
    especially when they were hungry. but always love on their own term. 
    Our three cats now although they all have their own personality and 
    antics, they are a lot more loving, they act as part of the family
    they spend more time hanging around us and getting involved in things
    they all know their names and come almost immediately from where ever 
    they are when called. They are healthy and happy and they inter act 
    with humans so much that the kids say these cats gotta have some dog 
    in them. 
    I think I have learned more about cats and enjoyed a lot more lovins
    from these indoor only babies than ever before, plus our house has no
    fleas. 
    
    Shaw 
    

    
    I think I understand about the "feeling inside".  Our cats have always
    been in/out cats.(they recently turned 9)
    With the rabies epidemic, and the fact that we live
    in the woods I made the decision to keep them as indoor only cats.  It
    wasn't too difficult as they came in last fall and stayed in all
    winter.  They just never got to go back out in the spring.  We had a
    couple of escapes, but oddly enough the cats allowed me to catch them.
    
    I know they would rather be outside but they are learning that it's OK
    to sit on the window sills and they are relearning how to play with
    each other.  My outside birds have a ball in the driveway (feasting on
    the discarded seeds from my indoor birds) and the chipmunks have
    totally taken over!  But I'm enjoying the wildlife and a new
    relationship with my cats.  It was a tough decision for me and even
    harder to convince my husband that this was the way it was going to be
    from now on.  I've been tempted to open the door and let them out when
    they get too obnoxious but I've held fast and feel good about my
    choice.  The one thing I do notice is that I need to pay more attention
    to keeping them "healthy".  While they aren't sick, I see the effect of
    limited sunshine and fresh air. So they have vita-lights and we're
    experimenting with supplements and diet and hopefully they will be
    around for a long time.
    
    MaryAnne

    
    There is no wrong or right answer to this question.  I think it is
    a personnal choice.  I think if the cats have plenty of toys and
    a buddy, they'd be fine inside and happy.  I personally could not
    live with the fact that my cat could not go outside.
    
    I have never lost a cat to a car in all my yrs of having cats.  I
    have never lost a cat to a dog either.  I have 4 cats right now
    all in/outdoor cats all around 10yrs old.  They are all happy,
    flealess and healthy.
    
    Lou