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Conference misery::feline

Title:Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected
Notice:purrrrr...
Moderator:JULIET::CORDES_JA
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1079
Total number of notes:28858

559.0. "Neighbors cat living in my boat" by MR4DEC::LPIERCE (HELLO....AGAIN) Thu Jul 01 1993 10:32

    
    What can someone do about a neighbors cat?  If it was a dog, you
    could call the dog officer and the neighbors could get a fine..but
    what can you do about a cat?
    
    Story:
    
    I have a boat that I keep in my back yard.  Over the winter the
    neighbor's cat made it his home/kittybox.  I would block the
    engine compartment w/ cardboard but the cat would just take it donw and
    get inside. (the boat was also covered/tarped)
    
    I brought the boat up from winter storage and I spend alot of $$
    cleaning it out.  I thought the cat would leave it alone now, but
    it wont.. now it has taken up ripping up my seats.  To replace the
    seat will cost over $300.00
    
    The people are aware of this but they say they can't do anything
    with the cat.  I have begun to video tape the cat and I plan on
    sending a registered letter with my greivence.  
    
    I guess I will have to go to court.  Somethings I wish there was
    a cat officer.
    
    LKP
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559.1SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingThu Jul 01 1993 10:4820
	This wouldn't do you any good in the UK, people cannot be held
	responsible for what cats do.  (dogs yes, cats no).

	Before you go to all this hastle and expense, I would check on the
	legal position in the US.
	And what would you do if she turned around and said it wasn't her cat,
 	just a stray that came round that she's taking care of until it goes
	back home?
	
	I think the neighbour has a point, what can she do...one suggestion 
	would be for her to plant some catnip in her back garden, to keep the 
	cat attracted to her land, why not try asking her?

	There are many products you can use to deter cats, you can also try
	using citrous smells.......lemon juice?
	Also, cats hate water, if you give them a quick spray when it comes into
	your land, it could be put off quite quickly.

	Heather		
559.2MR4DEC::LPIERCEHELLO....AGAINThu Jul 01 1993 14:0414
    
    I have stated to video tape her cat in my boat and all the little
    prsents it leaves behind.  So I will have proof she can see for her
    self.
    
    I have tried for 1yr to get the cat to stop going in the boat. 
    Everytime I see it, I squirt it w/ the hose and yell at it.  
    
    This cat is weird.  I've never meet a weirder cat in my life.  It will
    sit on its own poarch until it see's my cat or dog.. then it will
    leep out 6ft and drop down 5ft to run over and attack my animals.  It
    also rips open my trash and reaks havoc in my garden.
    
    lkp
559.3POWDML::MANDILEFleece us, we're sheepThu Jul 01 1993 14:346
    
    Is the boat covered?  Try covering the boat, and hanging
    moth balls in little nylon bags (use the leg from a pair
    of worn pantyhose) all around under the cover.
    
    Or, flip the boat upside down, so the bottom is up....
559.4it was coveredMR4DEC::LPIERCEHELLO....AGAINThu Jul 01 1993 15:448
    
    The boat was covered.  The cat riped opent the moring cover!  We
    now have to replace the moring cover..another cost of over $300.00
    (the cover was custom made)  I can't hang mothballs arond the boat
    (the dogs love em')  but that was a good idea.. I think I will put
    moths balls inside the rubbish cans.
    
    
559.5JULIET::CORDES_JAFour Tigers on my CouchThu Jul 01 1993 15:525
    Since Karen Kolling is no longer here to do it, I'll take up 
    the flag and caution against using moth balls.  They can be
    toxic to the cat.
    
    Jan
559.6POWDML::MANDILEFleece us, we're sheepThu Jul 01 1993 16:424
    
    I meant for you to hang the mothballs in the nylon nets INSIDE
    the covered boat.  This trick is used at the yaughtclubs to keep
    the seagulls away....
559.7Help with the trashVIDEO::BENOITThu Jul 01 1993 16:5615
    
    	I find approx. 1 tablespoon of household amonia inside
    my plastic gardage bags, tie bags tight so it doesn't disperse,
    keeps ALL four legged critters out of my trash. It doesn't hurt
    the cat since the cat has the option to back off.
    
    No real help on the other problems except the usual  odor mute/
    nature's miracle to remove the "this is the place smell" . Maybe
    an auto motion alarm to go off when kitty disturbs the boat cover?
    Negative reinforcement so to speak even when you're not there. 
    
    I've three cats (and a dog) and if you don't catch them 90%
    of the time they don't get the point.
    
    					God Luck   -Pat
559.8branches in the wayPARITY::DENISEAnd may the traffic be with youThu Jul 01 1993 21:1114
    I know this sounds quite strange, but it worked very well for a
    neighbor with the same problem.  He was out pruning some hedges one
    day (prickly ones at that) and the offending animal came and did its
    business in his boat.  He suddenly had the idea to pile all those
    hedge clippings prickles and all into the boat.  Well, the next time
    that animal tried to come in there, he was in for a surprise!
    Never did come back.....
    Don't know what kind of shrub they were, might have been roses or
    something, the branches were good size, he actually could readily
    lift them out when he took the boat out.......
    
    its a thought anyway.....
    
    Denise
559.9MAGEE::MERRITTKitty CityFri Jul 02 1993 09:5219
    Obviously the person who owns the cat doesn't take very good
    care of it!!   That cat sounds like a stray cat that is starving
    (picking through rubbish) and defending what he believes is his
    territory (your boat..sigh).  Does this lady feed the cat...does
    the cat live outside...is he neutered...does she even care what 
    happens to the cat??  
    
    Another option would be to find the cat a new home!!   This would
    take alot of extra work on your part...because you would have vet
    bills and it is pretty difficult finding an older cat a home and
    most all no-kill shelters are full.  But...with some work/money the 
    cat would be better off and you could have your boat back.   
    
    Sandy
    
      
    
    
    
559.10UPROAR::IME635::EVANSGGwyn Evans @IME (769-8109)Fri Jul 02 1993 10:236
    	One method that I've heard of is to rig-up an infra-red detector,
    connected to one of these battery powered water-rifles (powered by a
    adaptor switched by the detector.  It's a reasonable bit of work but 
    may work!  
    	Maybe provide the cat with some food/shelter in an area where you
    don't mind it being, so it's got an alternative where it won't get wet?
559.11Inflated baloons (not helium)POWDML::CORMIERFri Jul 02 1993 10:245
    How about putting some balloons under the cover? It won't save your
    cover, but will keep the cat out once he gets under the cover.  You
    might also try one of those commercial repellants to spray on the
    cover. Not sure how well they work, but at this point what have you got
    to lose?  
559.12MR4DEC::LPIERCEHELLO....AGAINFri Jul 02 1993 13:5420
    
    I'm pretty sure the lady takes care of the cat and feeds it.  It
    is healthy looking and she does have another cat (an indoor one)
    I really belive the cat has some mental disorders.  I will try a
    few of the suggustions in this file, but my take on this whole thing
    is "why do I have to do all the work to keep someones else's cat out
    of MY boat"?  Isn't her problem?  
    
    I am now using my boat everyday (afterwork and weekends)  I dont
    want to go through the hassle of taking out thorn bush's and
    mothballs and ballons everynight...I think I would give up boating
    first. 
    
    Before my husband breaks out the mouse traps.. I think I just might
    try and find this cat a good home (far away from my boat).
    
    I get so made, this lady's attitude is "well, it's a cat I can't
    do anything about it"  well How about buying me a new boat seat!
    
    lkp
559.13Take her to small claims court?STRATA::STOOKERFri Jul 02 1993 14:0619
    Just a suggestion, but once you get the video tape of the cat doing the
    damage, hand it over to the lady with a bill for damages.   Tell her
    she is responsible for her cat.   I really feel that if you own a pet
    (any kind of pet) then you are responsible for the damages.   Also
    suggest to her, that if she can't keep the cat off of your property,
    then tell her to keep the cat inside her house.  This is ridiculous
    that she is telling you she cant do anything about the cat.  Tell her
    to keep the cat INSIDE her house.   Also tell her that she's extremely
    lucky that it is you and not someone else that is getting damaged
    property, since someone else just may take a gun and shoot it.  (By the
    way, I'm not suggesting that you do, just that someone not as nice as
    you may do so).   What other type of thing can you do?   I would call
    the animal control officers and report it.   They are able to help with
    other animals, I still am not sure why a cat is considered any
    different...
    
    Jusy my opinion...
    
    Sarah
559.14Document everything, then give her a chanceISLNDS::FALLONFri Jul 02 1993 14:3310
    I like the idea of getting a video and taking her to small claims
    court.  But you would first have to prove that she owns the cat.  If
    you can get photos of her feeding or petting the cat (photos instead of
    a video might be easier) you may prove ownership that way.  If you
    can't prove ownership, and your bills are high, she will say it is not
    hers.  Document when and what you say to her too.  I would go to her
    first after gathering the info/photos and give her the opportunity to
    try to compensate you in some form.  You don't know what her position
    is either.
    Karen
559.15MAGEE::MERRITTKitty CityFri Jul 02 1993 14:3625
    I do agree that is should not be your problem and you shouldn't
    have to go through the effort of finding the cat a new home...but
    it just feels that this lady is NOT going to do anything about it
    and if you call the animal control officer they will probably just
    take the cat to a shelter or rescue leaque...and the cat will be
    put down.   Personally I feel the lady doesn't deserve the cat...
    he is causing you a problem...so I would probably deal with the 
    problem myself by finding the cat a new home. (of course I also
    bring my neighbor cats to my vet if they don't take care of them..
    so I'm a big SAP)
    
    What if you tell her that you have the video tape...you plan on
    calling the animal officer who will probably put her cat to sleep...
    and you plan on bringing her to court for damages if she won't
    deal with the problem.   Have a nice conversation with her...see
    what her reaction is...and take it from there.
    
    After dealing with multiple strays...I still believe this cat is
    hungry, possibly sick, and is starving for attention.   He probably
    claimed your boat during the winter time....and this lady probably
    just leaves him outside and thinks the cat can fend for himself.
    
    Sandy
    
                     
559.16SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingMon Jul 05 1993 06:4922
	If the woman has one cat she keeps indoors all the time, and this one 
	that is outdoors (all of the time, or most of the time?) I wonder if it
	is a stray which she just keeps feeding.

	It's strange to treat the two cats that differently if you have two of 
	your own.

	The behaviour you describe doesn't sound as if it would esily adapt to 
	living indoors with another cat.

	If you have tried to get her to be responsible for the damage before, 
	and she has refused, then I don't see there is much you can do until
	you seek legal advice on what her legal responsibilities are.

	I know what they are in the UK - None. I would really find out before
	this dispute goes too far.

	and I would start to look around for a home for this cat - maybe 
	somewhere where they have a barn?

	Heather
559.17Bed of plastic nails?BAHTAT::CARTER_AAndy Carter..(The Turtle Moves!)Mon Jul 05 1993 08:1610
    I saw in a mail-order catalogue a device to keep cats off flower beds.
    Its a sort of plastic bed-of-nails which is buried just under the
    surface, with the plastic 2 inch spikes protruding. This makes it
    difficult for the cat to walk over that area (let alone dig & squat!).
    
    Perhaps a home made seat cover of a similar design might  keep the cat
    off the seats?
    
    Andy
    
559.18UK LawSUBURB::ODONNELLJMon Jul 05 1993 09:124
    According to an article in Cat World concerning cats and the law in the
    UK, you cannot be held responsible for your cat tresspassing on someone
    else's property, but if it damages property (and this must be proved), you 
    can be sued for compensation.  
559.19SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 06 1993 06:106
	That's news to me, what issue of the magazine, I'll get a copy and
	read up...............and go home and tell my two to behave themselves
	when they go and sleep on nextdoors bed.

	Heather
559.20SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 06 1993 06:2630
	Thinking about this......

	Both my cats are strays I've taken in,

	I feed and water them, I take them to the vets, put them in kennels
	when I'm on holiday etc......they can come and go as they please 
	through the catflap, it's never locked.

	However, my nextdoor neighbour also feeds and waters them, they come and
	go as they please through their catflap (they also have a cat).
	They are also at home all day - and my cats love company and fresh 
	coley!

	If push came to shove, how would you proove who "owns" these two 
	ex-strays.
	
	I don't reallly have a problem, if my cats did any damage I'd have
	my hand in my pocket ASAP, and do almost anything to ensure they didn't
	do any more damage (except keeping them indoors), and what was done I
	would ensure got fixed. and I get on really well with my neighbours.

	I was wondering how you can actually say who "owns" these cats from a
	legal perspective.
	and also, how could you proove if it were my two, or theirs, or any 
	other cat that could have come through the flap, that did the damage?

	Just hypothesizing, but you could end up wth large legal bills, and no
	definate outcome.

	Heather
559.21SUBURB::ODONNELLJTue Jul 06 1993 07:2716
559.22SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 06 1993 07:5526
>    I think it's the current issue - it's got a kitten in a basket with
>    lots of pink chrysanthemums on the front cover. I have it at home, if
>    you'd like me to bring it in for you.
 
	Yes please, I'm in g3/7 at the back by the windows if you're
	wandering by, if not, give me a call on 4970, and I'll come along
	and have a browse.
    
>    Your own case sounds like a lawyer's dream! I suppose if you take on
>    caring for a cat, even a stray, you also take on responsibility for it, 
>    including costs. 

	My point (if I wanted to contest anything, which I wouldn't), would be 
	that the neighbour cared for it too, feeding it, and letting it sleep 
	on their bed during the day.

	Or, I would contest that it's the cat that believes it owns the 
	territory, so sue the cat!
	(could they sell off the gifts I've given them of catbasket, toys,
	and scratching post, to pay the fine?)
	
	Still, I'd like to read the article, and how they decide who the owner 
	really is.

	
	Heather	
559.23Could be fun!SUBURB::ODONNELLJTue Jul 06 1993 08:3411
    >> 	(could they sell off the gifts I've given them of catbasket, toys,
	and scratching post, to pay the fine?)
    
    If the bailiff was prepared to risk life and limb gaining possession of 
    said articles, he could try it! However, I would refuse entirely to be held
    responsible for injuries sustained in the brawl. I don't think they are 
    allowed to take your bed (catbasket) though, are they?
    
    I'll bring the magazine in tomorrow. I'm in G2 myself, so if you aren't
    there, I'll just leave it on your desk. 	
                                           
559.24SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 06 1993 09:0115
	Gulp!

	It may be better to leave it on my chair.........you'll understand
	when you see the state of my desk!!!!


	Oh no! If the bailiffs wore white coats, the little one would have him.

	You should see what he does to an advancing vet!

	prosecuted for being in charge of a dangerous, 7lb, cat?????

	Thanks,
	Heather
559.25MR4DEC::LPIERCEHELLO....AGAINTue Jul 06 1993 16:2917
    
    Thanks for the tips, I will get alot of incriminating vidoe on
    tape then I will present it to her first and see is we can work
    something out.
    
    to answer a question back a few. she has has this cat for about
    3yrs (I have olny lived there full time for 1yr- this was my
    Mom's house) the indoor cat is oly 1yr and it a siamees cat..
    she feels if the lets out the siamees it will get stollen vs
    the tabby cat no one will steel.
    
    I got more video this weekend.  I'll keep you posted on what
    happens
    
    Thanks again,
    
    lkp
559.26SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingWed Jul 07 1993 06:0928
	I still urge you to find out the true legal position.

	Thanks for the magazine Julie, it's quite interesting, some of it is 
	quite clear, the rest a real minefield..........

	An owner cannot be held responsible for a cat trespassing on another
	property, digging holes, doing it's toilet, or anything else that
	is deamed a normal feline activity.
	If it does something like - breaking a window, then the owner is liable
 	for third party damage.

	The owner of said property can be prosecuted if they attempt to poison,
 	shoot, or generally cause harm to the cat.

	If your laws are similar, you can't do anything about the fact it
	did it's toilet in your boat.
	Anything it does to defend the territory it has marked out for itself
	is natural behaviour.

	The owner could say that damaging the cover so it could get into
	a sheltered spot is natural behaviour, they could say that sharpening
	it's claws on the seat, thus damaging the seat, is natural behaviour.
	Your solicitor may say it isn't.

	Bottom line, if your neighbour says she won't pay, find out the legal
	position before spending money on litigation.	

	Heather