Conference misery::feline

    Thanks Jan (Cordes)!  I was the one that started asking Jan (Brown) 
    numerous questions regarding Llamas the other day at lunch.  Perhaps
    she'd like to shed some light on this topic.  :^)

    Jan showed us pictures of her two boys last week.  Her llamas are the
    neatest looking creatures.  They have such sweet, silly grins all the
    time and they look incredibly playful!  (similar to cats except they
    have a MUCH higher price tag!)
    
    Gee, we have a very large back yard.  Wonder what Bill would think if I
    brought home a llama while he's out of town?  :^)

Well thank you for the compliments, I'll tell "the boys"
you think they're cute (not sure they'd appreciate being
told they have 'silly grins').  Actually, they remind me
a lot of cats in terms of personality -- size is clearly
a whole 'nother thing.

For instance, llamas HATE to be laughed at -- and have
been known to hold a grudge about it:  a breeder I know
said her son had laughed at a cria (baby llama) because
she was funny-looking and ever after that whenever he
went into the barn the mother would threaten to spit at
him!

Llamas are intensely curious -- they tend to be shy about
approaching people but if you sit down they'll sneak up
behind you to sniff and generally check you out (sounds
like cats, doesn't it?).

Llamas are generally friendly, but on their own terms. 
One of my boys, Allegro, loves to give kisses by blowing
on your nose and then kind of wiggling his lips all
around your mouth -- if he's in the mood.  If he's busy
doing something or just doesn't feel like it, there's no
way you can MAKE him do it.

And llamas are mischievious -- they have started using
them as golf caddies on courses down South, but have to
tell people not to use fuzzy golf club covers because the
llamas try to eat them!

Thanks for letting me share, there isn't a notesfile
devoted to llamas and I've been dying to talk about them
publicly.  I'll try not to overdo it, this is FELINE
after all.  Feel free to ask questions, either here or
via Mail.

When I saw llamas in your personal name, it did not strike me as unusual
because in my knitting/weaving activities I come across a lot of people
with unusual animals that they raise for the wool/fur ( shearing, no
killing). It doesn't sound like this is why you have llamas, though. Is it?

In any event, I have been told that llama hair is 7 times warmer than
sheep's wool.



                                                  Susan

Llama wool, properly called fiber, is wonderful stuff
and definitely a reason to raise llamas.  To be honest,
if someone wanted the best fiber for spinning they would
buy an alpaca -- related to the llama but a separate
animal, smaller and woolier. 

Llamas can be sheared to get the wool but since they 
only shed their coat about every two years you have to
be sure to leave enough in place for protection against 
sunburn and cold; I plan to just brush mine for their 
fiber and avoid shearing.  It's pretty easy to brush
them (when they're feeling cooperative and will stand 
basically still), a standard dog's pin brush is the 
recommended tool and it just comes out as you brush.

Llamas are primarily used as pack animals in their 
native Andes of South America and people in the US use
them for packing as well -- they are easy on the trails,
don't require a lot of food and are very sure-footed.  I
know of at least one place in northern NH that offers
llama treks, they carry the food and you lead them!  I'm
sure there are quite a few more than that, and llamas are
extremely popular for this out west (Montana and Colorado
come to mind, but they're just about everywhere).

Also, llamas can be trained to pull a cart or sleigh,
with about 2-3 people as the maximum one llama could 
pull.  

And llamas are used for pet therapy, making visits to
nursing homes, schools, etc.  They are gentle and once
trained pretty accepting of new situations, and house-
broken!  I'm really looking forward to doing that sort
of thing with mine, Silver King has already shown a 
fascination with children and Allegro's kisses are very
popular with visitors.  

The only thing I've been told about llama fiber is that
it is too 'soft' to be used alone, it is usually mixed
with sheep's wool for spinning.  Pure llama wool is 
lovely but just won't hold up well enough; imagine going
to all that work and then rubbing through the elbows of
your sweater after only a few wearings!


Jan

    Did anyone else just read Jan's last note about visiting nursing homes
    with her llamas and have this vision of Jan driving a car down the road
    with a llama in the passenger seat?  :^)
    
    How big do those boys get and how much food do they eat on a daily
    basis???  Also, how big of an area do you need to keep them happy?  (I
    take it that they spend the daytime outside and the evening in a barn
    of some sort?)

    After seeing my horse's reaction to a cow, I would love to
    see his reaction to a llama!

Actually Cheryl you're closer than you thought -- we
have every intention of putting them in the back of my
minivan for transport so you could very well drive past
me and see a llama head peering over my shoulder (they
lie down while riding).

Silver King should weigh about 400 lbs. when he's full
grown and Allegro should be 300 lbs., and they'll stand
about 5-1/2' tall.  So bigger than a sheep but not as
big as a horse -- and smaller than a cat!

Llamas only eat about a bale of hay a week along with a
pound of grain a day, on average.  A bale may sound like
but compared to a horse or cow, it's nothing.  And a
pound of grain is one coffee-can full of the pellets.

And Lynne, llamas and horses have a very touchy
relationship in terms of first meeting.  The llamas are
more overwhelmed by curiosity than anything else, but
horses are apparently either absolutely terrified or
infuriated.  We made the 'mistake' of walking down the
road past our neighbors' horses (who were standing
several hundred yards away from the road at the time) 
and I thought their stallion was going to come right 
over the electric fence and trample us!  The llamas just
stood there watching him charge, seemingly unconcerned
while we were trying not to panic and get back to our
barn as fast/safely as possible!

    
    That's interesting....some friends of mine have
    a llama named Russo.  They also run a horse dealer/
    boarding/trailering business.  I asked what the new
    comer horses thought of Russo, and they haven't had
    a problem, other than the first "What's that?" nervous
    reaction.....

    
    Jo, 
      i looked into some things over the weekend.  Walnut (one of the Bach
    Flower remedies) is suggested for "any sort of changes....heat cycles"
    Doesn't say if it refers to males or females but might be worth a try.
    Also Star of Bethlehem "for all trauma...........(includeing) queening.
    
    Dr. Goodpet makes some herbal tinctures, one called Calm Stress might
    help.  
    
    I'm formulating something for stress but need to check further into one
    of the herbs and it may take awhile.
    
    there's always good 'ol Rescue Remedy.  No pet owner should be without
    it.  Some TTEAM circles cirtainly wouldn't hurt.  If the cats aren't
    eating well be sure that they get vitamins. (I'm sure you already do
    ;') )   Hope this helps!
    
    MaryAnne

    Have you heard of giving pregnant girls raspberry leaf to help with
    labor and delivery?  I have heard of this, but my health food store
    doesn't stock it, and no one can tell me how much to give.
    
    I am out of rescue remedy, and the health food store doesn't stock it
    either.  It is such a hassle to have to special order all these things.
    
    The boys are on Pet Tinic, which is high in B vitamins and is supposed
    to help boost the appetite.
    
    Jo

    Jo,
    
    I will gladly dig up my bottle of rescue remedy and mail it to you!
    
    I'll check the cabinet tonight when I go to feed the crew and see if it
    is still there.
    

    Thanks Ro, the boys really need rescueing right now.  I haven't the
    heart to tell them that since they both have a litter on the ground
    now, it will be MONTHS before they will be getting any more, nudge,
    nudge, wink, wink. ;')  
    
    Ah spring, glorious spring...the scent (of cat spray), the sound (of
    cats trying to serenayde each other all night, from one end of the
    house to the other), the beautiful sights (of cat hair everywhere, and
    of cat's crawling on their bellies like snakes).
    
    :') :')
    
    Jo 

    
    What's Rescue Remedy?
    

    Does anyone else mix up Jan Cordes, Jan Brown and Jo (Cordes) Brown? 

    RE: Cheryl.  ALL the time!!  Not so much Jan Cordes, but Jan Brown and
    Jo Brown I get confused ALL the time!!! 
    
    HOlly
    

    YUP!!!!!!! ;-) ;-) ;-) 8-)

    
    Rescue Remedy is one of the Bach Flower Essences.  It is a combination
    of 5 flower essences that is used primarily in times of stress,
    emotional upset, traumatic experiences etc.  I use it for any new
    animal coming into my house, animals recovering from surgery, animals
    that have had a traumatic experience,  or just when the routine has
    been disrupted.  It's great to use before/during/after show, boarding,
    etc.  It comes in a bottle with dropper and can be used as is or
    diluted in a dosage bottle.
    
    MaryAnne

    I would need to drink the whole bottle in order to truly feel
    "rescued"!!
    
    :^)
    

    
    Such a sap I am.  I ordered some samples of a new dry dogfood
    that is really impressive stuff!  Anyhow, as I was leaving the
    store last night, I noticed a cat in the parking lot.  It was
    eating *something* off the pavement (I hope not antifreeze).
    I figured it must be hungry, so I opened a sample packet and
    started tossing it to the cat.  The cat wolfed down the first
    chunk that he saw, and I left him happily eating.....(he is
    owned by one of the homes near my store)
    
    When I got home, I tried out a sample on my cats.  They also
    went nuts for it!  (I don't have a dog)  Come to find out, it
    is acceptable as catfood, because of the levels of poultry in
    it. (taurine is in poultry meal)  The kibble size should be
    smaller for cats, but the ingredients are impressive (see note
    301.80 & .108 in the canine file if interested).
    
    Even the possum liked it! (8

NOW CUT THAT OUT!!!!



		LLAMAS DON'T SPIT AT PEOPLE

Okay, now I feel better -- and I'll admit that they do
sometimes spit at people.  But their reputation for
spitting is really undeserved, at least for your 'normal'
well-bred llama.  Yet the myth persists (sorry Cheryl,
you aren't the only one to say/think it -- are we
still friends?).  

They aren't an overtly friendly animal and aren't suited
for petting zoos because of that; unfortunately, they do
wind up in such zoos and are so stressed out and not 
socialized with other llamas that they do get confused 
and spit at, horrors, people.  That's where people often
get to meet a llama for the first time, so they aren't
exactly jumping to conclusions and I mean no disrespect
to anyone who has met a spitter.  But usually a llama 
only spits at another llama -- and anyone who has met me 
knows that I in no way resemble those slender elegant
animals so I'm safe with mine!  

The question "don't they spit" is either the first or
second most often asked question (the other one is,
"Why llamas?").  I kept reading that in magazines and
now that I'm a 'real' llama owner I find it's true!!

Jan  

    
    I remember having a colleague say to me that he'd never
    have a cat because "they shred the furniture" or a dog
    because "they bark all night".  Seems like every species
    out there has a PR problem of some sort...
    
    Ron

    I think that if someone wants an excuse not to have a certain
    pet/animal around, they will find some reason. I love cats because they
    are so independent, but that's the exact trait that turns others off
    about them. (of course I love them for a lot of other reasons too) 
    
    I love dogs, but find them too dependent for my present lifestyle.
    (read not enough time to do right by the dog), which is the exact trait
    that makes others want them.
    
    I'd love to have a llama! A donkey! A horse! A zoo!!!! ;-) I can't do
    that right now, but I'd love to have one of everything if I could. If I
    made a llama angry enough at me to spit, I'd deserve it! ;-)  They do
    sort of give you a warning before they actually do it if you know the
    signs. 8-)
    
    One can always find a reason to NOT have a pet, but if one loves a
    species enough, you work through the negatives somehow. Right gang?
    
    Yonee
  

I must admit I got a little concerned about the llama going
to the nursing home and spitting on someone's eye, causing
a cardiac arrest!!!!

But it sounds like spitting is extreme behavior caused by
extreme situations.

By the way, (jan,jo, one of the above: my eyes just glaze
over), which highway will you be driving down with these
llamas? I want to be prepared! ;^)


                               Susan

    
    RE:507 
    
    Thought it might be best to put this here.
    
    Deb, 
    
      ESSIAC is an herbal combination, it's a liquid.  Contains burdock
    root, sheep sorrel, Turkish rhubarb and slippery elm.  You can make it
    at home but the initial expense is quite high as you will need all
    stainless steel equip. and will need to order the hebs in bulk,
    bottles, etc. and it takes 2 days to make a batch.  One of the other
    apprentices in my herbal class was very involved in making it as he had
    a relative and some friends with cancer.  The only experience i have
    with it is my Dad.  He was scheduled for radiation treatments this fall
    and luckily he had 2 weeks to take the ESSIAC before his treatments
    started.  The doctors prepared him for all the side effects he would
    encounter.  He was travelling from North Conway to Nashua for his
    treatments.  He's come down on Monday, a treatment every day and go
    back on Friday, 2 1/2 hours each way.  He made it through the
    treatments with no problems and the doctors were amazed that he didn't
    have any of the side effects.  He's no spring chicken either.  I truly
    believe that the ESSIAC was the reason he stayed so strong during all
    of it.  I have heard other stories where it has worked very well for
    people and I know I have heard of people using it for their pets.  
    
    Adult dosage is 4 TBLSP mixed in water daily so cat dosage should be
    pretty small.  I have an article I could copy of you'd like.  Just let
    me know your mail stop.  or if you want more info you can contact
    directly.......Dr. Gary L. Glum
                   c/o Silent Walker Publishing
                   P.O. Box 92856
                   Los Angeles  CA  90009
    
    Hope this helps
    MaryAnne

    Jan,
    
    I thought of you last night!  did anyone see the llama dressed up on
    America's funniest people??  It was a riot! They had it dressed up in a
    tuxedo with a top hat, glasses, and a cigar!!  And it was walking
    around the living room.
    
    Of course, I immediately thought of Jan.
    
    Holly
    

    
    
    Gee, that's funny.  Jan *never* dresses up in a tuxedo with a top hat
    and smokes cigars when I'm around...  8^)
    
    I wish I'd seen that!
    
    Ron

Nope, we didn't see it -- and I have to admit my first
reactin was "how undignified and insulting to the 
llama", but I know I would have laughed had I seen it.
Even the mental picture is making me chuckle!  Thanks
for thinking of me, I think...


Jan

    Jan,
    
     I saw this too! It really looked great! They had it dressed in such a
    fashion that it looked like a person with a llama butt! I had to look
    twice to make sure! It poked more fun at humans than the llama I think!
    It was great! 
    
     I also thought of you as soon as I saw it. I'll have to come visit
    your critters one of these days. ;-)
    
    Yonee

    Oh no...is that a note from Mr. Brown I just read!!!!!!  Now Jan
    your going to have to be careful what you say...there is a spy in
    the notesfile!!!! (I think he is dressed like a LLama!!)
    
    I missed the show last night for the first time ever!!! Geeshhh!
    
    Sandy

    Regarding getting the Jans, Jos and Browns confused.... 
    
    
    I do it too!!  But then I just remind myself that I don't have llamas,
    and then it all makes sense again. :') :')
    
    Jo (Cordes Brown that is - you know, the one with the Birman cats?)

    
       WHO? (;
    
     I also do it too!

    Well, I guess the cat's out of the proverbial bag! ;-) 
    
    Lynne, I wasn't sure if it was Kosher to actually put your name in
    here, but since you already did it, IT'S LYNNE gang!
    
    Of course the shipping charge may be a pizza in Littleton, but I can
    handle that! ;-)
    
    Yonee

    Why ll if llama...?
    Nat

    
    Well, I can't resist this now - my PC is on the network, and its name 
    is LLLAMA.  Anyone familiar with the poet Ogden Nash?  He wrote much
    inspired silliness earlier this century.  Here's an offering:
    
    	The one-l lama, he's a priest.
    	The two-l llama, he's a beast.
    	And I will bet a silk pyjama,
    	There's no such thing as a three-l lllama.
    
    Apparently, someone with an ear for a pun wrote to him and informed him
    that there was such a thing, in regard to fires: a three-alarmer.
    
    Ok, I'll go away now :^}
    
    

    Here's what I was told, but I had no way to verify it. I was told that
    the double l in spanish speaking countries, is pronounced as a 'y'. So
    llama would be pronounced like yama. 
    
    My friend Lloyd wasn't too pleased with this idea, but my friend with
    the last name Guillermo is pronounced withe the 'll' as a 'y'.
    
    Like I said, it could be all wrong, but that's what I heard about the
    two-l llama. ;-)
    
    Yonee
         

    
    
    	re: .36
    
    	Then shouldn't your name be spelled Llonee?   =)
    
    	Sorry, couldn't resist.
    
    	JJ
    

    Wellllll.....It would be if it was Spanish, but it's French! ;-) ;-)
    ;-) 8-)
    
    Llonee Nope, it just don't make it! 8-)
    
    Yonee, yeah, that's much better! :-)
    
    

    Well, to be perfectly honest, it Rawdenese, cause Cheryl Rawden made up
    that name for me, so I have to spell it the way she does! ;-)
    
    Yonee

RE:  .35  Thanks for putting in the poem, all my husband
had remembered was the first two lines -- it's even
funnier complete!  It is a convenient way to remember
the spelling...

As for pronunciation, I have been told that in Spanish
it is said "yama" but that in the US the accepted
pronunciation is "lama".  It isn't that they don't know
how to say it, it's just easier on English-speakers to
use English grammer rules.  So I guess you would be
correct either way!

By the way, llamas are sometimes referred to as "cats
in horse suits" -- they obviously look somewhat like a
horse but their personalities are much more like cats.
Curious, intelligent, determined to do things their way.



JanB

Note my new signature -- maybe it'll help with the
confusion with me, Jan and Jo?

    What about the monty python skit about llamas that's all in
    spanish? It sounds like they say "Los Lyamas".
    
    It's hysterical....if the monty python conference is still around
    I can post it here (if anyone cares).
    
    helen, snoopy and scooter

    Ugh. Poor old Nat wanted grammar, now he has it.
    
    My two cents: llamas are welsh, come from Llanwygan and llet me get mad
    with all these llanguage difficullties...
    
    Nnat

================================================================================
Note 65.9                          Los Llamas?                            9 of 9
PFLOYD::ROTHBERG "Only 11mo till I can drive again!" 36 lines   3-OCT-1990 02:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                From All the Words:
                
                CAPTION: PART 2
                
                CAPTION: THE LLAMA
                
                A spanish guitarist (Eric) and a dancer (Terry J)
                in traditional Spanish Costume.
                
                SUPERIMPOSED CAPTION: LIVE FROM GOLDERS GREEN
                
                Man enters and walks up to a life-size photo of a
                llama.   He delivers  the  following  lecture  in
                spanish, with help from the guitarist and dancer,
                and superimposed subtitles.
                
                Man  (John)  (but  in spanish with  subtitles  in
                english) The llama is a quadruped which  lives in
                big rivers like the Amazon.  It has  two  ears, a
                heart,  a  forehead, and a beak for eating honey.
                But it is provided with fins for swimming.
                
                Guitarist and Dancer:    Llamas  are  larger than
                frogs.
                
                Man:  Llamas are  dangerous,  so  if  you see one
                where people are swimming, you shout:
                
                G&D: Look out, there are llamas!
                
                Graham dressed in a Spanish  frock,  enters  on a
                moped;  he blows up a  paper  bag  and bursts it.
                They bow.  Cut to exterior of Ada's snack bar...
                
                

    re: .43 I guess you had to be there! ;-)
    
    Yon

    
    The drought is officially over in San Francisco!  We can now shower,
    wash cars, keep the grass green and bathe our kids without feeling
    guilty!!!!
    
    

    Great news about the drought! Now send some o fthe rain up to
    Washington  to my brother! ;-) They are very short of the normal amounts of 
    precipitaton this winter.
    
    My nieces and nephews have been in California through that whole
    drought thing. They were telling me that they were allowed 50 gallons
    of water a day per person per household or something like that. So,
    they had a little poem they said about the use of the toilet.
    
    It's kind of bad, so if you don't want to read it, hit next unseen now.
    
    
    	Here it is:
    
    	If it's yellow
    	Let it mellow
    	If it's brown
    	Flush it down!
    
    I loved it! I'm glad everyone out there doesn't have to worry about that
    any more. 
    
    Yonee

    I found a new housecleaner and she is great!  My husband wants to send
    a thank you note to the one that quit.  You remember, right?  I
    mentioned it in another note that my housecleaner had quit because I
    had too many cats.  She left me a nice little note under the doormat on
    a Beattrix Potter notecard...
    
    "Dear Jo Ann
    
    I really like you and your husband, and I love the cats and Annie, but
    if I wanted to clean up after this many animals, I would let my
    children have more pets..."  :') :')
    
    
    Jo

    Sandy,
    
    I'd thought I'd bring this over here. I just wanted to ask how your
    cellar kitty is doing and also the four strays outside?  I think it's
    great that you help so many cats - and that goes to all the other folks
    in here who do so much work too. Do you live in the country that there
    are so many strays or is it a neighborhood?
    
    Rebecca

    
    Rebecca...I just live in a neighborhood that is in a wooded section
    in town.  I think part of my problem is some folks have just dropped
    off their cats...and other cats have come from the college
    area which is about 1 mile through the woods!!  In the last 3 years
    I have rescued 12 cats just from my neighborhood..and this winter
    brought about 5 more.  (sigh)
    
    Well Happy Cat is still in the cellar....howling for woman which I
    won't give him!!!   When we first "caught him" he had this huge whole
    in his neck from a cat fight...but he is now all healed and is actually
    a beautiful silky black kitty.  He is funny because there are days I sit 
    with him and he is so curious he attempts to "check me out"...but other 
    days I sit with him and he is spitting at me from the rafters!! 
    
    My very sickly white stray (well he is suppose to be white) is looking
    a little better.   I spoke to my vet about all his cuts and bruises...
    and we have been putting Amoxi in his food.  Every week he has new
    cuts and bruises on him...but oh what a warrior he is.  Come to find
    out he was owned by a drug dealer down the road...and when he moved
    over a year ago he left the cat behind. (makes me sick!!)  He is my 
    priority because I don't like the way he looks....and the other night 
    he took a piece of chicken from my hand...and ran about 1 mile up the 
    road. Believe it or not...that is progress and I do believe this guy
    will be a very friendly guy. He kind of reminds me of Van Gogh my
    other warrior who was king of the neighborhood for a very long time!!
    
    Then we have my small orange/white tabby male who is really becoming
    friendly and it shouldn't be long before I have his total faith!!
    Right now I can pet him but if I even attempt to make a move to 
    pick him up....I get attacked!!  I have a new cut on my finger from
    this morning because I attempted to dry him off!! (wrong move)  This
    is one of the cats who I feel will be ready for adoption once I
    can get him medically checked out.  he is scared of people...but truly
    loves attention and will turn into a mush head real soon.
    
    Then I was feeding a long hair gray/white stray...and a long hair 
    orange/white stray...but I haven't seen either one of them for a
    couple of weeks.  They were in the neighborhood for most of the
    winter...but I feel something happened to then or I'd like to
    think that they made their way back home. (I doubt it!)  I never 
    even got close to either one of these guys!!
    
    And then I have seen a few other ones...but I just keep my fingers
    crossed that they are owned by new families in the neighborhood!!
    It has been a depressing winter and I do feel overwhelmed...but all
    I can do is handle one at a time, get them medically checked out,
    try to find them homes or put them back out in the neighborhood.
    I have concluded that I CANNOT take anymore in because the inn is
    truly full!! 
    
    Thanks for asking about the crew....the funny part is all my strays
    are on the "chunky" side....and the little poopheads are starting
    to be "fussy" about what they will eat. They have a nerve...huh!!!
    
    
    Sandy (who is truly starting to feel like the Catwoman)
                                                          

    Update to my update:
    
      As of last night the orange/white long hair who hadn't been
    seen for 2 weeks..has made it back to my neighborhood and was 
    eating ALL the food on the porch!!!
    
    Sandy

    Gee Sandy! Sounds like he may have lost track of the neighborhood in
    one of our many snowstorms. I'm glad he found his way back, so you know
    he is OK. I know how you are when one disappears all of a sudden. ;-)
    
    How's our happy cat doing? ;-) Still just as pleasant and loving as
    ever? 8-) Give him a 'stare' from me will you? 
    
    I get to go see my own Happy Cat, Shadow tonight, and do his
    favorite thing! NOT!!! Touch him with the wands! I'm hoping to find
    time to go to the shelter more than once a week to work with him. I
    wish the other volunteers weren't quite so afraid of him, and would
    work with him too, but it looks like it's going to be up to me. But,
    I'm pretty determined to bring him around, along with the two abused
    little girls in with him.
    
    Yonee
    
    

    Happy cat is really a pain in my side!!!!  I have been leaving
    my cellar window open for him...and all the other strays hang around
    outside the window which is driving him crazy.  He is howling at night..
    and spraying my cellar like you wouldn't believe!!! (phew)  
    
    Ernie tried using our home-made wand on him...and the big guy was really
    peed and whacked the stick right out of his hands!!!  Lately I have
    been bouncing a tennis ball around and I caught him playing with
    it the other day!!!  Of course when he knew I saw him doing it...he
    spit at me and ran to the rafters!!
    
    He is such a "happy cat"!!! Yonee...good luck with your "happy cats"..
    it is tough but it can be done!!
    
    Sandy
         

    Have any of you heard about or received "CATNIP" a newsletter from
    Tufts Univ. School of Veterinary Medicine?  I received a card telling
    me about it and offering a free current issue, which I just received. 
    It is interesting, but this issue didn't tell me anything I didn't already
    know, thanks to all of you.
    
    Steffi

    I sent for the trial issue also, but it sort of apeared to me to be a
    generic first issue, or at least I'm hoping so. I bought a
    subscription, so I'll let you now if the next issue is any more
    informative. 
    
    Actually, if I wasn't a member of FELINE, the newsletter would have
    benn CHOCK FULL of great new info, just as Steffi implied! ;-) This
    file really is the greatest!
    
    Yonee

    
    I found out that they have tours of the Jelly Belly jellybean factory
    in Fairfield.  One could sample the jellybeans and then cut over
    and do wine tasting in the Napa Valley.... :'D
    
    
    

    When can we go?  I love jelly bellys and also wine.  My sister-in-law
    and her husband did the jelly belly tour and enjoyed it.
    
    Steffi

    
    Just an update on the family looking for a cat that I posted a week or
    so ago.  The mother was most appreciative of the info I passed on to
    her.  Last night, however, I was informed that the brother is allergic
    to cats.  I strongly urged them to forget the idea of owning a cat but
    to consider visiting a shelter once a week.  They are familiar with the
    Pat Brody Shelter so they may inquire there about visiting.  
    
    Thanks all for your help.  Wish it had worked out better.
    
    MaryAnne

                                LLAMAS  AND  ALPACAS
                                    FALL FESTIVAL



                                     Open House
                              August 28th & 29th, 1993
                                     9:30 - 4:00
                             University of New Hampshire
                           Winthrop Skogland Indoor Arena
                                Durham, New Hampshire


                                  COME MEET A LAMA


     >  Join farms from across New England for fun and education
        with llamas and alpacas.  Learn why llamas are "easy keepers",
        feel their lanolin-free fiber, and see techniques for
        training these gentle creatures.


     >  Demonstrations of grooming, spinning, packing, cart driving
        and obstacle courses.

     >  Farm hosts will answer questions on living with llamas.


     >  Some llamas, alpacas and llama related products will be
        available for purchase.



                        Free Admission, Music and Door Prizes

                             Refreshment Stand Open 9-4
                            For More Information Contact

                        Caroline Boeckman-Dunne  603 286-7948
                  Sponsored by the New Hampshire Llama Association

re .24  (long time ago...)

For those who remain interested in llamas, the Browns of Weeping
Willow Farm are proud to announce that two llamas will indeed
fit in the back of a Dodge Caravan!  

It only took about 5 minutes each to convince them they could/
should step up into the back and walk to the front, called "loading".
As we drove away for a test ride they layed down ("kushed") and
had a nice view out of the windows as they rode.

I'm still not sure exactly how they do it, I'm the one INSIDE the
van tugging on their lead to encourage them to enter!


JanB

    I wish I could drive past you some day on the highway and say "geez,
    there go some llamas". How every day, just out for a ride! 8^}
    You could pair up with Linda S. and her mini horses and have a grand
    time.
    Karen

    Your note reminded me of a joke...which I just have to share!! The
    joke was for bears...but I will use Llamas instead:
    
    A farmer was driving down the road with 4 Llamas in the back of a
    pick-up truck.   The farmer was stopped by the police and as the
    police was getting out of the car he started scolding the farmer
    saying "this is no place for Llamas you must take them to the zoo
    or I'll give you a ticket."    The farmer calmed the policeman down
    and was not given a ticket and went on his merry way!!
    
    The next day the farmer was again on the road with his Llamas in
    the back of a pickup truck.  This time the Llamas had sunglasses on.
    Well the same police stopped the farm and started screaming "I
    thought I told you yesterday that this is no place for Llamas and
    you had to bring them to the zoo."  The farmer responded " Officer
    I did take them to the zoo yesterday and we had so much fun we're 
    heading for the beach today."
   
    
    

    I think I saw a note from Linda Sobek in here recently and I was
    wondering if it was Linda Sobek of miniature horse fame. I saw
    miniature horses years ago and have always wanted to know more about
    them and maybe even own one or more eventually. I checked the
    equitation file, but the note in there seemed quite old, so I thought
    I'd ask here. If it's the right Linda, do you still have miniatures and
    what are they like and what do they cost and how much is maintenance
    and how much space do they need and oh, just anything you can think of.
    Feel free to answer off-line if you'd rather.
    
    Thanks much!
    
    Rebecca 
     

    Well I have no idea where to put this note...but considering it has 
    multiple topics and I feel like a basketcase today...why not put it here!!
    I need many many prayers and good thoughts!!  When you think your
    life is so rough....you don't realize how easy you had it until
    you start to crumble!
    
    Monday night when I went home after work we found out that my
    sister-in-law (54 years old) had a heart attack.   She had an emergency
    operation to unclog an artery..and as of right now she is still in
    ICU...but seems to be doing better.   The sad part is she lives
    in Deer Island, Maine which is 7 hours from us...so it's real difficult
    going to visit her.
    
    Also on Monday night we took my mother-in-laws 17 year old cat (who is
    MY cat now) to the vets and he was diagnosed with Kidney Disease.  Mr
    Meow was an outdoor cat...but has lost alot of weight and is skin
    and bones.  We ALMOST died when we saw him on Saturday because he
    was going down hill very fast and I can't believe Ernie's Mother
    was still letting him outside where he did not have access to food
    or water. (arrggghhh)   Mr. Meow kidney's are very small and are
    barely working...but since he is still eating/drinking ALOT of water
    and pooping fine....we want him to stay with us for awhile.  He's
    on a KD diet which he hates...but I did read the notes in this file
    and got some other ideas for food.  I also called the vet...and they
    are going to give me a home-made low protein recipe to try.
    
    Last night I went home...and I can't find my Barkley anywhere! Barkley
    was my first stray I took in from my neighborhood about 4 years ago
    and he had spent atleast 2 years as a stray and survived many winters.   
    He's a very big strong boy!!  Barkley normally goes out for about an 
    hour a day...and normally can be found laying on the front porch or 
    under his special bush!!  It is so unlike him to disappear (he never 
    has)...that I am truly worried sick over this.  We spent 4 hours last
    night walking the neighborhood, looking in sheds/garages etc.  We
    are going to call the vets/animal officer today and I'll ask Priscilla
    to monitor the phone calls coming in to the shelter.  I have my sister
    and a neighbor continuing the search today!
    
    I'm almost scared to go home today because I can't take any more
    bad news, my stomach is in a knot and I feel so sick.   I need good 
    thoughts and many prayers!
                                                        
    Sandy

    Good thoughts and prayers are with you, Sandy...
    
    Rebecca

    Sandy, I hope things take a turn for the better - but if you want a 
    shoulder, or a willing listener, come on by the house.  
    
    Hopefully, Barkley will be waiting for you tonight when you get home.
    
    Linda

    Sandy,
    
    Prayers and good thoughts are coming to you from California.  I hope
    you will get good news tonight about your sister-in-law and that
    Barkley will be waiting for you.
    
    Steffi

    
    Sandy, 
    
    Me too, prayers and good vibrations coming your way!
    
    Shaw

    Sandy, my heart is with you ..... surely hope Barkley can find his way
    home .... hang in there.

	Sandy, the saying is that bad things come in threes.....well, you've had
	your three, you're now due good luck, I hope Berkley is there waiting
	for you.

	Heather

        Still no sign of Barkley even though we searched the neighborhood
    	for hours last night.  Special big thanks to Yonee who drove to 
        Fitchburg to provide moral support and help in the search!!  I just
        don't understand him....my belief is he couldn't be lost because
        he was a stray in the neighborhood even before I moved in. (I've
        been there for 4 years) He only spent about an hour a day outside..
        and does not LIKE new people so I doubt he would wonder into 
        somebody's house or car or even go near people.  He can defend
        himself very well (he's top cat)...and I've even seen him chase 
        dogs out of the yard.  there are no wild animals such as bears,
        coyote, in my area other then a few opposums, squirrels, skunks.
    
        My only hope is he was "peed" about us bringing Moses in...and
        we just took Mr. Meow (the one with the kideny disease) home
        on sunday. (Barkley left Tuesday AM)  I doubt this is the case
        beause this is so unlike Barkley because he is TOP CAT and
        nobody intimidates him at all.  Barkley was cat number 3...so
        he has been introduced to other cats multiple times!
    
        My fear is he is stuck somewhere with no food/water...or he
        go sick or hurt and is someplace waiting for me to come to
        him.   These are my nightmares that I can't keep out of my
        mind and I think about it and tears come!!
        
        A little bit of good news...is Mr. Meow ate 2 oz of food 
        yesterday AM and about 4 oz last night   He is more alert 
        and less wobbly then the night before.  Bless is heart
        and skinny little body.....I sure hope I can put a few
        pounds on him without spoiling anymore of his kidney. 
        (down from 12 pounds to about  5 pounds!)
     
        Keep the good thoughts and prayers coming....after Friday
        I'm on vacation for 2 weeks...and I sure hope I can
        enjoy it and not have all these worries.
    
        Yonee....THANKS so much!!!  How/why you put up with two
        basketcases last night (me and Ernie) is beyone me.  Your
        thoughtfulness is beyond words!!
    
        Sandy    
    

    Sandy,
    
     Sorry to hear he hasn't come home yet. :-( I'm still trying to send
    him messages to get his little butt home NOW!!!!
    
     The reason I put up with two basket cases last night, is because I
    happen to LOVE those two basket cases a LOT, and wanted very much to
    help! ;-) Besides, that's the way things go for feline lovers, right?
    ;-)
    
     I was glad to help, even if it was just moral support if nothing else.
    Please be sure to keep us posted about Barkley and Meow. He's such a
    love too!
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

I am here and think o'you... Wish best. One cannot put it in words,
I also did not sleep for days as Smokey was lost. I know how you feel and
wish you need not feel it. Our meows and purrs with you from far Europe.

Nat&Smokey

         Here's sending get-well- and come-home-soon- vibes.  Hope
    everything turns out okay.
    
    					- Andrea

    Still no signs of Barkley.  We have posted signs (which include
    a picture of Barkley) all over the neighborhood as well as in vets 
    offices, stores in our immediate area and our shelter.  We'll post
    more tonight and I won't stop until his pictures is on every telephone
    pole and all stores in the darn city. 
    
    We stayed out last night until about 9:30 and then came home for
    supper.  At 10:30..Ernie had a brainstorming idea. (You just got 
    to love him!!)  He figured it was trash night...and if Barkley was 
    out there and he was hungry..he'd be picking trash!!  Well off we
    went for another hour in the car running around the city looking
    at trash!!  No luck...but I thought it was a great idea!!
    
    I'm on vacation for the next two weeks...and as of right now my
    vacation plans are cancelled because I couldn't go away and enjoy
    myself.   All I need is for him to come home...and that will be
    the best vacation time I ever had.
    
    Sandy  

    Good luck, Sandy, and I will pray for Barkley's safe return.  Is there
    any way you can update us in case he returns while you are out on
    vacation?  Perhaps you can call me or Yonee here at work and we can
    post the news.  Otherwise, I will constantly be in suspense until you
    get back, and I hate not knowing.
    
    Barkley, get your *&%! tail back home ASAP!!  Don't you even realize
    how good you have it there?!
    
    

    
    I'll make sure I let someone know so they can post it in the
    file!!!   If Barkley does come home...you'll probably hear my
    screems of joy all the way to Grafton.  Hell...Nat will probably
    here them over the ocean!!
    
    Thank you all for your prayers....please keep them coming!
    
    Sandy

   Sandy,

   Can you post (or point to) a description of Barkley - just so those
   of us in the area can keep our eyes out for you as well ????????

   Hope he returns SOON so you can enjoy at least some of your vacation !

   Debbi

    Hi,
    
     Since Sandy hasn't replied, I think I can describe Barkley for her.
    He's a fairly large mostly balck short haired guy with a white blaze on
    his chest. he has a little bit of white way down on his tummy too, but
    that's not really noticeable. 
    
     He's friendly, but not apt to go to a stranger outside of his house.
    
     I hope this helps until Sandy can maybe give a more complete
    description.
    
    Yonee

    Sandy -
    
    More good thoughts from here for Barkley's safe return. And for your
    sister's recovery. 
    
    Let us know when he gets home!
    
    Kate
    

    Yonee...great job on the description.   It is almost exactly what
    I have put on my posters!!!!   Barkley is about 15 pounds....so
    he is pretty big boy!!  The ONLY unique description on him is
    the little white locket on his chest and the bit of white
    between his legs!
    
    Sandy

    I finally found where Sandy put this note string!!!!
    
    I have great news! Sandy called me a while ago to let me know that
    Barkley has come home!!!!!!!! YEEHAW!!!!! He was gone for 8 days all
    together. She still thinks he was either stuck somewhere, or someone
    had him indoors nad he finally got out and went home.
    
    Needless to say she's thrilled to death, and asked that I break the
    news to everyone that he is home, and no worse for the wear, although
    he ate pretty well I guess. ;-)
    
    I love it when a story has a happy ending! Barkley is such a wonderful
    boy, who always greats me at the door when I go visit Kitty City!
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

    
    Just like when we brought Tinkerbell back...
    
    len.
     

    .81
    
    Wonderful News!!!!
    
    Rebecca

    .81: YOHOHOHOHOOOOO!
    NAT!
    :-)

     HOORAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Now maybe Sandy can actually ENJOY some of her vacation time !!!!!!

     
Debbi J

    I asked Sandy if she would be going away fro a few days now, and she
    said she thought they would, but that Barkley is grounded until further
    notice! ;-) She's so funny!
    
    Yonee

    Yay!!  Yahoo!!  Whoopie!!  woop woop woop!! Hip hip horray!!!
    
    Needless to say, I'm a bit happy to see that Barkley is back!!  What
    fantastic news!!
    
    Holly
    

    Welcome home, Barkley.  You sure scared your mom half to death, you
    mean, rotten kitty!!
    

    Well....it was so nice to have Barkley home while it lasted.  I'm
    kicking myself in the butt for letting him back out because he has
    taken off AGAIN!!                  
    
    Barkley came home looking great.  He hadn't lost a pound..no scratches
    from cat fights..and his coat was still nice and shiny!! (this is after
    8 days of being gone)  Barkley stayed in for three full days and was 
    SPOILED rotten and I monitored him very closely to ensure there were no
    signs of sickness.  On the fourth day...he was pretty cranky because he 
    wanted out...so I went outside with him and he stayed around the yard 
    following me everywhere.  He finally settled down on the porch for his 
    normal snooze.
    
    The next morning he went for a stroll....and NOW he has been gone for
    another 7 days!! (SIGH...and I'm back to being a basketcase again.)
    I truly believe Barkley must have another Person that is taking care of
    him....because Barkley is not the roaming type (he came to me as a
    stray who lived outside for over 2 years and he hated it.)...and he 
    hadn't lost a single pound when he was gone the first time.
    
    I just don't understand.....I sure wish they could talk!! So it's
    back to hanging posters and putting ads in the newspaper.   He will
    be GROUNDED for LIFE if/when he gets home.
    
    Did I enjoy my vacation??? Well let's put it this way...if I had to
    work during that timeframe I surely would have been to stressed out
    to deal with anything.    On the first day of my vacation my sister
    who lives upstairs from me....was pushing a stalled car and ended
    up with the car rolling over her leg.   WE had the ambulance, fire
    trucks and 3 police car in my driveway assisting.   She was rushed
    to the hospital...but believe it or note she does not have a single
    broken bone.  She is very badly bruised...but is doing GREAT now!!
    
    The streak of bad luck better be over soon...!  Thanks so much for
    all your kitty prayers..
    
    Sandy
    

    
    Sandy - you just may have to acknowledge that Barkley's decided to move
    on.  Remember, they pick us, not vice versa.  Back a long time ago when
    I had 5 cats, Rodney decided he'd rather go live with a family where he
    was the only (big) cat.  He had a nametag on his collar, and after he was
    gone a week someone called me and told me where he was (it was about a
    mile away). I went and retrieved him, but noticed that there were a couple
    of miniature Rodneys following him around.  He stayed a week, and then
    took off, presumably back to his new family.  I never saw him again.
    I still had his brother Sydney to console me, and much as was saddened
    that Rodney didn't see fit to stay with me, at least I could believe he
    was happy and doing what *he* wanted.
    
    If Barkley's been an outdoor cat, you won't be able to ground him for
    life; he'll find a way to get out, and in the mean time he'll be
    wondering why you're punishing him.
    
    len.
     

    Len...I probably agree...but don't want too!!  The reason why I do
    agree is that Barkley joined my family when I only had two cats.  He 
    originally was an outdoor cat who was being fed by a person that had 
    close to 15 other cats.  Even though this person invited him in his
    home....he would not go inside even in the dead of winter.
    
    Of course...he strolled into my house with my other two cats and made
    himself at home.   It's hard for me to understand because Barkley was
    top cat and did get along with all my other cats...so I find it hard to 
    believe he left for that reason. (but yet it sounds like he did..I'm so
    confused)  Ernie and I live for our cats....even though we have
    multiple cats we spend SO much time with them it is crazy.  I just don't 
    understand WHY he would leave this.  All our cats are treated like
    royalty!!
    
    I guess deep down if I know he is happy in another home...I could let
    go....it would be hard...but if Barkley was happier and I knew he was
    safe...I probably could do it!!
    
    He is such a poophead......and he really knows how to blow a 2 week
    vacation!!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    The down side of the deal we make with our cats is that no matter how
    much we love them, we'll never really know what goes on inside their
    furry little heads.  And no matter how much we anthropomorphize them,
    they're still *cats*, and we're still people.  They're *different*,
    very different, which makes the symbiosis of domestication that much
    more remarkable.  We think we "own" them, or that they "owe" us some
    sort of commitment or faithfulness in return for our caring for them,
    but I doubt that's the way they see it.
    
    So no matter how you think Barkely "ought" to feel, Barkely's going to
    do his thing.  I don't think you're going to get much choice in the
    matter.
    
    This is all easy for me to say, because he's not my cat (see that
    possessive) and I can be "objective".  But I do remember how Rodney's
    leaving hurt, and I know I'd be destroyed if any of my current brood
    "deserted" me.  They too are treated like royalty.
    
    I'm again reminded of the diversity of cats' "personalities"
    ("felinalities"?).  Some cats are homebodies, some are wanderers.
    Some are "serially monogamous".  Some are loners, some love a crowd.
    I think Barkely may have reached his companionship threshold and found
    another place where he can be "top of a small heap" rather than "top of
    a big heap".
    
    If he comes back for a visit, I urge you to tag him; maybe his new home
    will see fit to contact you and arrange for visits.
    
    len.
    

    
    Also, someone can be *keeping* him against his will indoors, and
    as soon as they let him out, he comes home.  Maybe making it clear
    he already has a home......
    

    Sandy,
    
    My Tinkerbelle was grounded for about 3 months after her 1 week return
    to our old house last year and her 8 day disapperance several weeks
    after her return.  By that time (3 months later) it was getting to be
    Fall and she only stayed out for a day and then came home.  During the
    Winter she was in ALL the time (by her choice).  Now that we're in
    Summer again, her pattern is 5-6 days gone.  2-3 days home.  3-4 days
    going out and coming right back.  5-6 days gone again....  So, I've
    learned not to get too worried during her "vacations".  (Although by the
    5th day I'm usually checking the door much more frequently!).
    
    So, maybe Barkley is just taking some time away from the gang.  When
    the weather turns colder you may see that he stays around again.  It IS
    nerve-wracking though!
    
    Princess is doing ok - growing like crazy!
    
    Did Chico ever get adopted?
    
    Linda

    
    
    	I have 2 fur faces, one is part Maine Coon, and he likes staying
    	out doors. He was once gone for several days..... guess who was
    	pacing the streets... Anyway he shows up one morning for
    	breakfast... I wish I could have grounded him for life...
    
    	One thing I did do this spring was put a tag on his collar, so
    	if he gets lost, he could go to someone house and ask them to
    	Phone Home for him...8^)
    
    	My other kitty is smaller and like hanging around the house, and
    	like to sleep on a soft bed with the air conditioner.
    
    	Hang in there Sandy...
    
    	Mike

    Still no sign of the Big Boy! (sigh) I'm still having a hard time
    understanding because Barkley was not a roamer...Barkley usually
    only stayed outside for about an hour and always stayed close to 
    home...Barkley loves food and I know he wouldn't leave without
    having another food source.   If this happened with my Angus...I would
    understand because Angus DOES have this habit (twice a year) to
    stay away from home for a couple of days.  
    
    Because I had monitored Barkley for the 4 days he was home...he
    seemed so content and happy to be with us again. I originally thought
    Barkley could have been held against his will...but now that he
    left again I realize it was his own decision.  Had I even had the
    slightest inkling he was going to do this...he would have been
    grounded forever or atleast I would have made him wear a name tag.
    He got me...I never in my wildest dreams felt he would leave again.
    
    I'm so confused because I truly felt even though our domestic cats
    are somewhat of wild creatures...I thought I understood them pretty
    well.  But it goes to prove I know very little about our furry
    creatures!  I'm really sick over this...the first time he left I
    was devastated and worried something bad happened...but this time I 
    really feel HURT and really worried he might not return because he
    does not want to!
    
    I know I'm really personalizing this and cats never do.   My husband 
    believes he put his "wild" hat on and he is just out roaming the woods 
    and possibly still coming back to eat off our vporch.  I believe if Barkley 
    wanted to be away from cats...he definitely would have to leave
    our neighborhood because there are many strays around the entire
    neighborhood.  So I believe he is not just "hanging around" playing
    wildman!!
    
    Sorry I'm rambling and thanks for listening.  I am trying to understand
    WHY....but I'll probably never know.
    
    Sandy

    As of 9:00 PM last night my big Barkley came home once again!!
    As soon as he saw us he ran to the door and continually meowed
    and rubbed all around our legs.   I picked him up...hugged him..
    kissed him...and called him every nasty name I know in both English
    and Italian!!  He again looked GREAT and hadn't lost a pound after
    being gone 9 days this time!
    
    He was hungry...but not exceptionally hungry.  All he wanted was
    to be loved!!  After he got done eating he joined both Ernie and
    I on the coach and sat between us looking for our total attention.
    I was in heaven because my entire furry family was with us once
    again!!  
    
    He is tired...and slept through the night.  He got up and ate his
    breakfast and jumped right up on the cat tree, curled up, and was
    in a deep sleep very quickly!!
    
    I wish they could talk...I swear that the way Barkley was meowing..
    he was telling me his story...I just wished I understood.     
    
    Sandy
    

    
    He's obviously faithful in his own way.  I too would love to know
    where he's been and what he's done.
    
    Still, I urge you to tag him.  It might provide a clue as to where
    he's going.
    
    len.
    

    We took Barkley to the vet yesterday just to be on the safe side. 
    He was acting very lazy (what the heck...he was probably running for
    9 days) and he felt a bit warm.  He does have a sore throat....and the 
    vet feels that his backend is bothering him a bit so he probably did 
    get into a cat fight or slightly hurt it somehow.   The vet felt it wasn't
    a major injury...so we are going to monitor him and if need be we
    will do further tests at a later date.
    
    As of right now...he has no desire to go outside..as a matter of fact
    I haven't even caught him looking out the window.   We walk in the
    room...and he meows and comes running to us.  He SEEMS so content...
    but the big poophead is not going to fake me out this time!!
    
    I'm keeping him in as long as I possible can....I have pamplets to 
    order the ID name tags for him.  I sure wish he could tell me what
    happened!!  
    
    Faithful in his own way..YEAH RIGHT..I'm probably the BEST food source!
    
    Sandy  
    
        

    Sandy,
    
     I'm glad you brought the old Poophead to the vet as a precaution. We
    did the same thing when my cat was lost for 5 weeks! He did have
    tapeworm from hunting his own food, but other than that, he was in good
    shape. It made me feel better knowing though. He was skinny, but that
    was all.
    
     BTW, I'm still sending him messages over the airwaves to keep his butt
    right where it is, and not put you and Ernie through that ordeal EVER
    again! ;-)
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

            
    
    
    
    The following is not too pleasant but I felt it was important
    press next unseen if don't care to read on.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    A recent adoption note prompts me to  write the following....
    
      I can relate to the overwhelming feeling of so many animals, I hold
    nothing against anyone's decisions.  It is difficult to place a pet and
    even more difficult to make the decision to euthanize when no home can
    be found.  I have been through it.  What I did find was that most vets
    will not put a healthy animal to sleep.  They will tell you to take it 
    to a shelter.  If you do take it to a shelter once you sign the
    paperwork you no longer own the cat, even if you brought it in to be
    euthanized.  i don't know of any shelter that will let you stay with
    an animal while it is being injected.  If you can find a vet that will
    help you BE SURE and I can't stress this enough, you know what drug 
    they are using.  Euthanasia is a painless, very quick death and can be
    achieved with an overdose of (correct me someone please if this is
    wrong) sodium pentobarbitol.  It is not cheap.  There is however
    another substance that is used called T-61.  It paralizes the animal
    and they suffocate.  I have seen this done and it is not pleasant.
    
    This is not meant to make anyone feel bad about any decisions they may
    have to make!!  It is just to let people know that you have to ask.
    
    
    MaryAnne

    I would also like to add that I have heard horror stories about
    a certain no-kill shelter who euthanizes cats via a gas chamber
    or shoots them with guns.   To me this is not the humane way
    of doing this deed.
    
    Sandy

    
    Well, I'm jealous! (8  My mother brought home a 12 week old
    male Abbysinian kitten Sunday, and my sister brought home a
    male Scottish Fold kitten on Saturday.
    
    Whaaaa!!!!!!   (;
    
    Lynne

    Steady Lynne! You still have quite a menagerie if I remember correctly!
    ;-)
    
    Yonee

    
    At least I have visitation rights, Yonee!  (8
    
    

    
    There you go! That always helps! You can get your 'purebred' fix, and
    save all that money to boot! 8-} ;-)
    
    

    
    
    Hi,  the other day when I was talking to one of the foster mom that
         helps with the shelter, she mentioned something interesting.
         She believes that kitties of the same litter can sometimes and
         most of the time with uncotroled breedings (like strays or in 
         your backyard) have different fathers.  I know this is not 
         possible in humans (or is it?). Is this true?
         One good example is the litter that my Maine Coon kitty came from
         or should I say Maine Coon looka like.  She has all the markings
         or a tiger Coon. She has those white hair coming out of her ears 
         and curling back towards her head. She has black pads on her paws
         and fur growing between them. She looks just like a Coon. Her 
         sister (that might be the forth addition BTW ;-) ) is a long hair
         toxedo cat. The are two boys and they are short hair one is gray
         and white and one is all white. So is it possible that more than
         one male will mate with a female and they all have a child which
         carries their gene? I cann't imagine this being true in dogs.
    
         Shaw

         Yes kittens can be from MANY fathers in one litter...especially
         with stray cats!!!     Those stray females really know how
         to "strut" their stuff!!!!!!!
    
         Sandy

    
    
    My 2 domestics have one father, while their sisters had
    another.  The sisters were white with a grey patch on
    their head, and my 2 are tabbies.  But, mom was a calico!

    It seems like this could apply to humans too.  Fraternal
    twins do not look like each other and come from two eggs and two little
    sperm guys (could be different donors).  
    
    Interesting! I'd not ever thought about a litter having various
    fathers.    
    
     

    
    Last night I took a friend of ours to the house of the poeple which 
    were foster parents to my little Main Coon kitty. Our friend was
    looking for an all white kitty, she has an all black one. I kept
    telling her that you realy can't say what you want until the cats see
    you. So be it, she saw this cute little long haired gray tiger with 
    biiig green eyes and it was love at first site. So when we were talking
    about the kitty's medical history I found out that they spay/nuetur 
    all the kitties before they place them. Now I got mine when she was 
    14 weekes, and they tell me now that she was spayed at 12 weeks old. 
    Imagine the surprise the vet would have had when I took her in at six
    months and asked the vet to spay her ;-)
    Well my concerns are, I always thought that the female had to be
    atleast six months old before spaying. Is there any danger to the
    kitty? One concern I have is, I've heard spaying cats at a premature
    age, and they will not grow their potential and stay smaller than 
    what they were meant to be. Don't get me wrong I love my kitty no
    matter how big she gets, but I wanted a full size Main Coon monster ;-)
    Keesha is already a bit smaller than her brother which at 16 weeks
    is the size of an adult cat!
    There is this Main Coon cat 2 years old that is at the foster parents 
    home he is the size of a small dog but so cudly. 
    
    Shaw
    
    

    Shaw,
    
    Did you get your Maine Coon from a breeder of Maine Coon cats?  Please
    don't think I am being disrespectful, but many mixed breed cats
    resemble Maine Coons, but are not purebred 'Coons.  Thus, you have no
    guarantee your cat will be large like a Maine Coon, unless it is of
    pure Maine Coon lineage (and even that isn't guaranteed either; some
    purebred Maine Coons are smaller than the standard depicts).
    
    In regards to early spaying, I have heard of the procedure but am not
    really sure how thorough it is or what/if any side affects there are. 
    Best to ask your vet that question!  :^)  I don't think it is a widely
    practiced procedure yet, but is definitely catching on!
    

    
    Roberta, no I did not get my cat from a Coon breeder. We so happened
            to mention Maine Coons and she was fostering a litter and 
            our Keesha was the only one out of that litter that had the 
            Maine Coon markings. Such as the black pads, fur between the
            pads, the coat, all the markings including the white hair that 
            grows from the corner of the ears and curls back. Anyhow it was
            never an uderstanding that this will be a pure breed, just
            wishfull thinking ;-). 
            I will contact her vet to question the early spaying but for
            someone that has practiced it, I'm sure they would have a some
            good argument to justify it. I 've been told that most vets 
            would refuse to do a so called premature spaying. 
    
     Shaw 
    
          P.S maybe I should take Keesha to the gym with me to pump her
          up ;-)

    
    Anyone who works at the Pat Brody shelter know when they spay/neuter
    their kitties?  I can't remember exactly what Priscilla told me 
    the other day but it struck me as remarkably young - I think she
    was talking weeks, rather than months.  I could be wrong - and 
    obviously she's solving a problem rather than creating one - I 
    was just surprised.  All those times I've waited with baited breath
    for 6 months to roll around and then rush off to the vet before 
    I get unwanted kittens/spraying.  
    
    Adrienne
    

    Adrienne,
    
     If you remember the little tortie kitten that was mostly red instead of
    black, Priscilla said that she was going in this week fior her spay! I
    think this kitten can't be much over 8 weeks old.
    
     I know one of the reasons the PBS is doing kittens so young, is to
    insure that they ARE, in fact spayed. I'm not sure about the age of the
    little boys though. I guess there were a lot of certificates not being
    returned, so there was no proof of the spay/neutering.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Yonee
     

    I could be wrong, but when I took Abigail in for her spay ... I
    questioned Dr. Moss if they would do it if she was in heat!   She said
    something about "forcing" a heat ... did I hear her wrong?  If that
    statement was correct - could they force a heat on a kitten 3 months
    old?
    
    Marilyn
    

    Marilyn,
    
     From what you asked, would they spay if she was in heat, I htink the
    answer meant that they could, er, 'manipulate' certain areas to force
    her 'out' of heat. I don't think it is necessary for a cat to actually
    go into heat before they can spay. I know my Furby never experienced
    it! ;-) 
    
    Feendoonie was another story, as I was told she was about 4 months old 
    when I got her, only to be informed she was already 6 months old! Of
    course during the three week waiting period between shots, so I could
    bring her in, she went into heat! Just my luck, having to listen to
    that for a week! She's a great kitty though!
    
    Yonee

    Yes, Yonee, you are right!  My memory just ISN'T what it used to be.
    
    When we got Abigail we were told she was 8 weeks old, when in fact
    she was 12 weeks old.  Tiny tiny kitten, I could hold her in the
    palm of my hand.  So her going into heat was a real surprise for 
    me because not only did I think she was too young, but she was so
    small.
    
    Thanks for jogging my memory? (smile)
    
    Marilyn
    

The early spay/neuter program is pretty well known out on the
west coast but is just starting to come around to the East Coast.
From what I read they are stating that the early spay/neuter does
not impact the growth of the kitten at all.   Some west coast
breeders and many shelters are already using this early program
to help resolve the problem of unwanted kittens.

As far as I know, Priscilla (Pat Brody Shelter)has done some research 
and has found a vet in Acton who will neuter males kittens at 12 weeks.
She has started this with a few male kittens but I did not believe
she has started the early spay with the females yet.   I could be wrong!
    
    Sandy

  

I'm currently fostering a litter for PBS and just talked to
Priscilla last week about returning them.  She asked me to
keep them until they were 10 weeks old so they could be
spayed/neutered -- she said they could be done at 8 weeks if
they were large kittens, but 10 weeks is preferred. 

Her plan seems to be that no future kittens will be adopted
out without being spayed/neutered.  That way they don't have 
to depend on the new owners to have it done, too many people 
let them have at least one litter in spite of the incentive 
about getting your deposit returned upon proof of spaying/neutering.



JanB

    I knew it was around that age. Now I know it's 10 weeks. I must say
    though, that the little gold tortie was just adorable, and we had a
    hard time getting her away from Steffi, until she tinkled on her
    sweatshirt!! 8-} ;-)
    
    That's when Priscilla told me she was due for her spay this week. 
    
    I think it's a great idea to spay/neuter early, as long as it's safe
    for the kittens, which it seems to be. Can't depend on some folks to do
    the right thing all the time, and this avoids chasing people down to
    get them to spay/neuter. 
    
    I think it will help the bookkeeping at the shelter too. They won't
    have to keep track of who has not claimed their deposits! ;-)
    
    Yonee

    
    I guess this might become a common practice at all shelters. Both 
    foster moms and the  one shelter that I've talked to say that, no 
    kitten under 12 weeks will be placed so that they can spay neuter
    them first. The donation fees are now $50.00 to cover all this in
    advance. As for population control I think it is a great practice.
    But is this a practice so recent that there are no real answers as
    to long term side effects (if any)? I seem to hear mixed answers
    as some think that it does effect the growth of the kittens and some
    say not!
    
    Shaw

    I spoke to Priscilla last night at our craft meetings and she
    said the American Vetinarian Board has just approved the early
    spay/neuter program.  We should see alot more vets doing this
    and starting this week the Fallon Clinic will also do this for the
    shelter kittens.
    
    Like everything else this program will be controversal but I think
    it is great for shelters as well as breeders who sell pet kittens
    and want to ensure those kittens do not end up in a breeding program.
    
    Sandy
    

    Jan....who are you fostering NOW!!!!   This must be your 3rd
    foster litter this summer!!!!!   What would we do  without you?
    You must be a PRO at this now.
    
    Sandy  

I have Goody and her SIX kittens, what a riot!  If anyone
is looking for an adorable, active kitten -- call Priscilla
next week and ask about them.  Goody is a medium-haired
tiger, with a very fluffy tail but a skinny body and a 
beautiful face.  Her kittens include one short-hair black,
one short-hair gray and white, two medium-hair tigers like
Goody (one with white toes), one medium-hair solid gray
and one medium-hair black and white with the loudest meow
I've ever heard from a kitten.

Fostering kittens is SUCH fun, you get to watch them grown
and develop from kittens lumps in a box who can't walk to
young hellions who keep pulling books out of the bookcase
and swing from the curtains!  You sit on the floor and get
swarmed and get all your shoelaces untied, and have the joy
of having one climb up near your face, peer intently into
your eyes and start to purr.  You watch them discover the
taste of solid food, usually starting with your fingers and
moving from there to canned cat food!

I think we're very lucky to be entrusted with the care of such
wonderful little beings, I feel like we should be paying
Priscilla for the privilege.  It's hard to give them up of
course but then there's always the excitement of the next
batch to look forward to.  And my West Highland White
Terrier loves having kittens in the house, they all get to
meet him so that they know what a dog is and he seems to
really like them.  His tail has never wagged so hard...


JanB

    
    I think the early spay/neuter program will have a major
    impact n the overpopulation problem.
    
    

    All 3 of mine from PBS were "done".... and they were only a few days
    past 4 months old when I brought them home!!!  My vet took out the
    girls stitches... Boomers were disolving (thank goodness, can you
    imagine trying to find them in that little area???)

    Cats are amazing.....
    
    I'm trying to figure out how Mr. Meow spent 17 years as an
    outdoor kitty (access to a cellar) and never lived with
    another kitty.....could join my house as an indoor kitty
    and adjust to 10 other cats with no problems.
    
    I'm also trying to figure out how my 10 cats have adjusted
    so well to Mr. Meow when normally I have alot of hissing/
    spitting during introductions.  Every one of my cats
    accepted Mr Meow with no problem....they actually let
    him get his way on everything.  Do they understand he
    is old and sick????  
    
    I'm not looking for answers...but I just find them
    truly amazing and am very proud of my cats for accepting
    the old man so easily.
    
    Sandy 

    
    RE:acceptance,
    
    Some of you might remember the three felines that I introduced a few 
    months back. Reachel was the cat the was ever so skinny and depressed
    'cause her previous owner gave her up we thought she was 2 but found 
    out later that she was an older cat, Ziba the blonde (was introduced 
    as orange but is realy blonde) abused kitty that at the early age of 
    two had already been adopted and dumped twice, and my little Main Coon
    Kitty. 
    Well Reachel for the longest time was a grouch would not socialize at
    all. Always kept by herself then adopted my girlfriends daugther . 
    She finaly came around. She looks wonderful now, all filled up and 
    active. She is moody, as in the mornings she  plays with the other 
    two and wrestles with the Main Coon kitty Keesha. the other day we 
    brought home a cat scratcher/codo combination. Reachel knew immediatley
    what it was. She walked over started scratching then jumped on the top
    level condo and made herself comfortable. 
    There are times in the  late afternoon/early evening that she wantst to 
    be left alone, but at night time, she comes and sleeps on our bed now. 
    Ziba the blonde cat, has turned into the most gorgeous Turkish Angora 
    lookalike I ever saw. She has the gentlest personality. Supervises and
    trains the little (well not so little any more) Keesha. In the begining
    she would spend equal time with both other cats. She would sit by 
    depressed Reachel and groom her and sleep next to her. Then would come 
    and wressel with the Keesha for a while. Until eventually she broke 
    Reachel in and now the three of them participate in wrestling matches. 
    Keesha the Maine Coon, is the most adorable. She wants to be picked up 
    and carried around like a baby on shoulders any chance she gets. 
    She is constantly stealing food from the other two and eats like a pig. 
    She wakes me up every morning around 4:30 with her sand paper tongue on
    my face and then sleeps on my chest.  Many times I have found the 
    three of them curled up on the bed.  All three are very healthy and 
    happy.  My first indoor only cats and to my surprise seem to be very 
    happy indoors. There is ofcourse a long hallway they can drag race on
    and plenty of toys to play with 
    
    It is very rewarding to see how beautiful and happy the two abused cats
    have turned out. They seem to have left the past behind them and have
    adopted well to the new environment. As for Keesha, if it wasn't my 
    biassed opinion I would say she is the prettiest teenage kitty I ever
    saw. 
    
    Shaw (Reachel,Ziba and Keesha) 
    

    
    As I've said many times before, I'm always amazed at the diversity of
    cat personalities.  Some are mellowed out, and other cats seem to know
    it.  Some are cranky old farts.  Some just can't get enough of big
    people, some just want to be left alone.  It takes all kinds, and I
    guess we've got them.
    
    len.
    

    Congrats JJ....   
    
    I actually like JJ's jems or another version could be JJ's Jewels
    or how about Jewels of JJ.   
    
    Sandy

    How about JJ's Originals?  I have my own jewelry making business as
    well, I make face pins out of porcelain like lady faces and friendly
    plastic.  The name of my business is "Lady Originals by Lori".  I have
    a question, what legalities are involved?  I have my jewelry in several
    consignment shops and I've never had to get involved in anything legal.
    
    Lori B.

    
    
    	Lori,
    
    	In the state of NH anyway, you have to get what's called
    	a Certificate of Registered Trade Name.  That's what I was
    	told anyway.
    
    	Do you claim it on your taxes?  I'm also going to the IRS to
    	get a tax number.  That allows me to buy supplies at wholesale.
    
    	I'm not sure on all the legalities of it...it's all new to me!
    
    	JJ
    
    
    	

    
    In NH you can do business under your own name without registering it.
    If you choose to use a "business name" you need to check with the state
    to make sure noone else has that name registered for business.  Which
    also means that you should register your business name to keep anyone
    else from using it.  It's simple to do, fill out a form and send in
    a check for $50.00.  As far as taxes, keep GOOD records of what you
    spend and what you make.  Talk to your tax person, if you have one, (
    (and I suggest a private individual rather than a "chain") to see if
    you will be better off claiming it as a business or hobby.
    The gov't give you so many years to claim a loss but I found it was
    better for me to call it a business, and show a small profit.  It
    depends on how involved you want to get.  Also I believe you can
    register a trade name without actually being in business (having a
    store etc.)
    
    MaryAnne
    (who's been through all this before and doing it again)

                               
                               Judy Gems
                               'J'emstones
                               Diamonds in the Rough
                               Glittering Glass
                               Just Judy's
                               

    Judy, Judy, Judy!

    Judys Jewels??
    
    JJ's Jewels??
    
    hmm... maybe something to do with how you got JJ???  (something to do
    with the name Juliet, right??)
    
    Holly
    

	The Genies Gems   by Judy    

	You could have an emblem of the Genies lamp.........gold and 
	sparkling with Jewels.

	Heather

    
    
    	Holly...
    
    	Not quite.  =)  JJ came from JouJou which was given to me
    	in HS.  When I got here I shortened it to JJ.  A guy I dated
    	changed it again to JouJouliet..... so you were close.... =)
    	
    	Keep those ideas coming!  =)
    
    	JJ
    

    
    A little late, but how about:
    
     Jewelry by JJ
    
     Jewels by JJ
    
     Designs by JJ
    
     Glitters by JJ

OneOfAKind JJewels ?

    
    
    	Keep 'em comin'  !!   Still haven't found anything
    	that's "clicked".
    
    	Whatta you all think of "Jewel of the Wild"
    	(ie: offplay of Jewel of the Nile)
    

    As much as I think this string now belongs in the GENERIC topic, I just
    have to add this. It's just another example of my mind leaking out my
    ears!
    
    When I read a couple notes back when a noter suggested Oneofakind
    JJewels, My mind (sad as it is) read Okeefenokee JJewels! I need a
    vacation!
    
    Back to your regularly sheduled program......
    
    Yonee

    
    
    	If the mods wish, I can move it to the GENERIC topic....
    

    I must admit they have been very patient. You had every right to brag
    in here though! I hope your business is a giant success! 
    
    So, I don't suppose Okeefenokee Jewels is in the running, eh? 8-)
    
    Yonee

    Jewels to Beguile ...
    Jewels of Denial ...
    Ice Station JJ
    Glitz by JJ
    JJ and Cats Jewlers Extrodinaire
    ...
    Sigh a slow day ...
    
    Tjp
    

    
    
    re: Yonee
    
    	Ummm... I think not.  =)
    

    Awww Gee! I never get any consideration! 8-} ;-) I must admit I sat
    here and laughed like a fool after I read it wrong, and even harder
    after I realized my mistake! 
    
    It's a good thing the people in my group already know I'm a bit weird!
    ;-)  
    
    I wish I could think of a real suggestion for you, but my imaginative
    brain is oatmeal this week! (as you've probably figured out with no
    help from me!)
    
    I personally like your idea of "Jewels of the Wild" though. Don't ask why!
    I just like it! ;-)
    
    Yonee
    

               <<< WRO10C::USER$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FELINE.NOTE;1 >>>
           -< Meower Power - Where Differing Opinions are Respected >-
================================================================================
Note 23.332          SOMETHING TO BRAG ABOUT, DO IT HERE....          332 of 354
GOOEY::JUDY "Wake me when we hit 2001"               39 lines   5-NOV-1993 11:12
                                     -< \ >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Ok, this isn't really cat related but I didn't want to
    	start another note just for this so...
    
    	As some of you might know, I've been making my own jewelry
    	for close to a year now.  Mostly it's been stuff for myself
    	and as gifts for friends and relatives.  Well I've recently
    	been approached by someone at work to make some gifts for her
    	to give for Christmas AND I've had a friend offer to display/
    	sell some of my things in her boutique affiliated with her
    	Jazzercise franchise.  This means I have to come up with a 
    	name for my "business" and make it all legal etc.. This is
    	all very exciting for me.  
    
    	But I do have one holdup.  I can't think of a catchy name for
    	the business!  Since this crowd is usually pretty good with
    	names for our fuzzfaces I thought I'd ask here for ideas.  I
    	don't want to use cat related names though because what I make
    	doesn't have anything to do with cats other than the three of
    	them trying to "help" when I'm creating.  =)
    
    	These are some I and a friend have come up with thus far but
    	nothing really "grabs" me ya know?
    
    	All That Glitters
    	JJ's Jems
    	Razzle Dazzle
    	Jewel of the ???
    
    
    	Any of you have any brainstorms?  I make most of my jewelry out
    	of natural stone and glass beads if that helps.
    
    	Thanks!
    
    	JJ
    
    
    	

    
    
    	Thanks Yonee.  While Okeefenokee might be memorable it's not
    	really the sort of name one would use for natural stone 
    	jewelry ya know?  =)
    
    	JJ
    

    
    Natural Stone Jewelry by JJ
    
    

    Or just simply:
    
    Naturally Stoned. :-)
    
    Lori B.

   or 

		Naturally.....JJ


?????????

    JouJou Beads ???
    
    Tjp
    

    
    Stones Natural (<-- spell natural in french?) by JJ
    
    

    
    
    	re: .155
    
    	Hey, I like that one!  Hmmm....
    

    re: .155 & .157
    
    It made me chuckle. :-)
    
    Lori B.

    Oh No! I was thinking about JouJou something, but every time I said
    JouJou, all I could think of were those little JuJubee candies we used
    to get at the movies! 
    
    Of course she LIKED that one! Sheesh! I can't win these days! ;-) ;-)
    ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    I sort of liked the Stones Naturale too. Stones au Naturale? ;-)
    
    
     Yonee

    For the record, JouJou makes me think of Jo Ann's first Birman
    female instead of candy (Her name is Jouissance aka Joui).  
    How odd that I'd think of a cat before I'd think of candy :^)
    
    Jan

    
    
    	Hey Jan,
    
    	Think Jo would mind if I changed one letter and used
    	Jouessance?  I'm writing all these down.......  =)
    
    	JJ
    

    I don't think she'd mind.  It may actually be spelled that
    way.  My french is very rusty.
    
    Jan

    
    
    	Great, thanks!  That's actually my favorite so far I think...
    
    	JouEssence Designs or something like that......
    

    
    
    Well this morning Ziba is going in to be spayed. She is our 2 + years
    old cat that we adopted around five months ago and thought she was 
    spayed ;-) 
    It was so hard to feed the others this morning and deny her. I've
    always had spayed nuetured cats, never had to have one done. With 
    my dog, I remeber there was no need for an E. colar. Do cats need 
    them? She is supposed to be coming home tonight. What shall I 
    expect. Will the other two give her a hard time, as mentioned somewhere
    due to Vet smell. I realy hope that this is not going to change her
    personality, as we love her just the way she is, perky but so gentle
    and sweet. She is the most well mannered cat we have never begs while
    you're eating, doesn't even care for poeple food. She can keep herself
    busy and does not require the constant attention that our Keesha
    demands.
    
    Shaw 
    

    Shaw,
    
     I wouldn't worry about Ziba's purrsonality changing on you. She may be
    a little slow for a couple of days, and will probably be pretty groggy
    whjen she gets home tonight. Just follow your vet's directions, and all
    should be fine.
    
     She shouldn't need and E. Collar. If she keeps at the stitches she amy
    need one, but it isn't usually necessary. 
    
     I won't say don't worry, because I know better, but try anyway. She
    will love you just as much if not more, for giving her relief from
    going into heat! ;-) 
    
     BTW, the others may hiss at her, and just avoid her till the vet smell
    goes away. This is pretty normal. They shouldn't try to attack her or
    anything. Mostly hiss if she gets too close, cause she will smell 'not
    right' and the others will avoid her thinking she's sick or something.
    
     Hugs to you both. Let us know how she makes out.
    
     Love,
    
     Yonee
     

    Shaw...Ziba will do fine and her personality won't change.  Your
    other two cats MIGHT not like her smell tonight...but they'll get
    over it quickly!!  If possible just give Ziba some space of her
    own tonight because she will most likely sleep the night away!!
    
    I have always taken my cats home the day they were spayed...but
    what to expect really depends on the cat!!!  My little female Poco
    was very lazy and slept alot for a few days...my little Chloe took
    about a week to get back to normal..and my little Abby was up running
    and jumping as soon as she came home!!  It was like she didn't even
    go through the operation!!!  I have never had to use a E-Collar with 
    my cats...but that probably also depends if they start biting at the 
    stitches!!!   
    
    I've even taken home a neutered male that was still knocked out!! That
    was an awful sight watching them wake up so groggy with his eyes
    rolling!!!!  I'd prefer NOT to do that again...because I was a 
    basketcase watching it!!!
    
    Keep us posted on Ziba....
    
    Sandy

    Wow Yonee...note collision and we said the same darn thing!!
    Are you in my brain again????
    
    Sandy
    

    Sandy,
    
     Did it feel crowded in there? It was me! 8-) I had to use someone
    else's mind today, as mine is pretty sluggish. ;-)
    
    Yonee

    
    Notes collision 'cuz it's the basic truth about spaying.  Same story
    with my little girls, who were both spayed two months ago (Rocky's
    turn next week...).  Blueberry, the bigger of the two, was a pretty
    much out of it when she came home, but was her normal wonderful self
    the next morning.  Robin was up and around right away.  Blueberry
    seemed more annoyed by her stitches, so I trimmed a few of the longer
    ones that seemed to be poking her (the sutures are  of a very stiff
    material) and that was the end of it.  Stitches came out a week later,
    no complications.  The only way you can tell they've been spayed is
    their precious little bellies are still a bit short of hair.
    
    len.
    

    
    RE:last 
    
    Does this mean that she will have to go in again to have the stiches 
    pulled? 
    She is being worked on as I write this.
    
    Shaw

    
    Yep, it will take all of a minute, if that.
    
    len.
    

    Abel took one of her two stitches out the second day she was home - so
    she became a cone head for a while...
    poor girl... she was rather amusing trying to back away from the thing
    on her head... but she got over it.  I would take it off while I was
    home and awake so she could wash herself and I could watch for stitch
    biting.
    Then, several days later she managed to get the collar off, and about
    10 days (?) after the operation she had taken her other stitch out.  
    'Course I was watching her closely to make sure she was healing well,
    which she was... (and is growing her fur back:-)
    end result - I didn't have to take her back in...
    I think she's even more loving and affectionate now, than before.  The
    visit the evening of the surgery when she slept in my arms probably
    didn't hurt either... :-)
    
    p

    I know how it is to have a stitch biter, and to have one who didn't
    bother it at all, to the point that the vet had trouble getting the
    stitches out!
    
    Feendoonie was spayed on a Thursday, we moved on Saturday, and Sunday, I
    picked her up, and all her stitches were gone! I never saw her go at
    them in the hustle bustle of the move. I checked the incision, and all
    seemed to be holding together, andwas not swollen, so I called the vet,
    and he said not to worry, as long as it looked neat, and not swollen.
    Saved me a trip from Hudson to Bellingham though! ;-) She just didn't
    want to drive in the car!
    
    Yonee

    
    
    Mumsie from the PBS (renamed Miss Muffet as she's afraid of 
    spiders) was spayed in July of this year while at PBS.  I got her 
    in October at which point her long fur had grown in, completely 
    covering any evidence of stitches, etc.  Boy did I feel like 
    a horrible new Mom when I went to comb out her fur and just about
    ripped out one remaining stitch that had been overlooked.  Poor 
    thing looked like she regretted having been taken from that nice 
    shelter where no one yanked on her stitches :-(
    
    Now she's a spoiled rotten constantly purring beautiful ball of fur
    so it wasn't a life-shattering experience but I sure felt like sh*t
    for a while. 
    
    Adrienne
    

    
    There is a nice neighbor we have that baby sits our cats, as we go 
    to the mountains every week and are away atleast three nights a week. 
    Well I was told that she has a very large cat. Most large cats that
    I 've seen were like Maine Coons or short haired. I had never in 
    my life seen a Persain cat so large. She was absolutely enormous.
    I mean like huuuuge. She is ten years old white persain. Is this 
    normal, She would not fit on ones lap. you'd have to be strong to 
    pick her up, (if she'd let ya!)
    The first time we left the kitties alone, well with the kitty 
    sitter visiting twice a day, to feed them and do the litter boxes
    when we got back it took a little while to have Keesha the coon kitty
    purr, Racheal would not eat for a day, Ziba her old wonderful self.
    Last weekend we were away for four days, and I thought the cats will
    never forgive us but to my surprise, they were real loving. Even
    Racheal that usualy does not like to be in the bedroom when there is 
    another cat on the bed snuggled up and sat on my chest and purred, 
    after five months this is the first time that she's actualy done this. 
    What do you people think. Are they appreciating us more now. Or is
    it really trumatic for them. All through the skiing season (five+
    months we will be gone every Friday and return Sunday night. I normally
    will not give up my skiing days for anything/anyone but if this is 
    going to be stressful for my furrbies I will reconsider. 
    
    Shaw                                                     

    Shaw...when I first started working at the shelter we had a 30 pound
    cat that was huge...his name was TNT!!!!  He didn't get much excercise
    at the shelter...so Priscilla took him home where he could run around 
    more and his diet was monitored...and he ended up weighing in at about 
    18 pounds!!!  Beautiful huge long hair black kitty...who did find a
    wonderful home..and hopefully they changed his name!!!
    
    As far as leaving your kids....well I personally couldn't do it every
    weekend..but your talking to someone who hasn't had a vacation for 
    4 years!!! (it's hard getting a cat babysitter for my entire crew..plus
    strays) As long as your kids are happy...your babysit doesn't mind,
    and I'm sure you give them ALOT of attention when your around...go
    enjoy your skiing trips!!!!
    
    Sandy

    
    Ziba came home last night after her operation which took place around
    10ish in the morning. What a sweetheart she is. Ziba is golden blond
    with fluffy white furr on her chest and belly and her paws. She has
    a small face with huge eyes and bushy tail, they had put a Roy Rogers 
    style Christmas hanky around her neck and she looked wonderful. 
    We had bought her a new bed and made her own quarters in our bathroom
    which is pretty large and carpeted. She was real groggy and made a 
    few attempts to get up and just crashed back on her bed. To our
    suprise, vet smell or not, the other two were ever so effectionate to
    her. The older cat was washing her ears and butt (we had to separate 
    them in fear of she might try to lick the stiches) and the coon kitty
    was just giving her kisses.  We tried to separate them by closing the
    bathroom door but the other two just cried and scratched. So we decided 
    to leave the door open and monitor the activity. Well they each slept
    on either side of her bed, I thought that was real cute. Especialy
    with the Main Coon kitty Keesha 'cause she is normally so selfish and
    wants it all. This morning we got up to find Ziba on the floor and 
    the Keesha was sleeping in Ziba's bed ;-) wouldn't you know it. 
    Anyhow, I spoon fed her a some water, she got up after that and
    had a couple of bits of food and crawled under the dresser. 
    So I guess she is going to be ok ;-) We were told she need not go back
    to pull the stiches they are disolvable. 
    As for leaving them every weekend. Well they have the run of the whole 
    house, they have each other. and our friend that takes care of them 
    twice a day, spend some time with them too. Like Keesha likes to be 
    carried on your shoulder, so she gets her ride. Ziba likes to chase 
    the feather thingy around, (she won't be playing this weekend)
    and Racheal just needs someone to give her chicken breast snacks ;*)
    So we are hoping that once they realize the we come back everytime
    they won't go through too much stress. They did seem a lot more
    effectionate this time. 
    I will observe their behavior and if I notice anything wrong, I will 
    cut down on my outdoors fun (sigh!)
    
    Shaw

    Glad to hear Ziba did well...and the other two accepted her with
    no problems!!!   You'll see her come back to her old self in a
    few days!!
    
    I sure wish I had a dependable cat sitter that lived closed by and
    was willing to deal with my crew and our routine!!!  I'm sure your
    kitties will do fine...and appreciate it very much when you do
    come back!!!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy, 
    
     I think you should train your crew to use the can opener! 8-) Of
    course you'd ahve to leavesome cans outside for your stray crew, and
    train one of them in the fine art of pull tabs! ;-)
    
     Sorry, I'm having one of those days. I can just see Capone out there
    yanking the top off his favorite brand!
    
     I'm really  glad Ziba is doing so well, and thet the others welcomed
    her home with open arms! That's the best thing for her! She should be
    her normal self in a couple of days.
    
     I wouldn't worry too much about your weekend trips either. I hitnk
    you're right about them realizing you will be home each time, and it's
    calming them down. Enjoy! They wil be fine with their 'kitty sitter'!
    
     Yonee

    Ya BUT...I'd have to leave multi cans in my house...outside...down cellar
    and in VG's room!!  Oopppss and in downtown Worcester where Ernie is
    currently feeding (and trying to capture) 4 little kittens!! (sigh!)
    And you wonder WHY I can't find a reliable cat sitter.?.?.?
    
    Sandy (who's a little off the wall today too!!)
    
    
                                     

    Hi Sandy,
    
    	I have a solution.  Just leave an unopened 3.5 lb bag of dry
    	cat food out for them.  When they are hungry, they will open 
    	it up and feed themselves.  ;-)
    
    	I have one of those little cats (approx 7 lbs) that will gnaw
    	a hole in an unattended bag and help herself.  Needless to say,
    	I have to check my cat food bags for leaks.
    
    Donna

    
    re .181 - you should see what my little darlings do to an unopened bag of
    cat litter that's been left within their reach...
    
    len (who sometimes forgets and is quickly reminded).
    

    
     Hi friends,  We are faced with having to make a decision and it is 
     ever so hard. Some of you might remember Racheal, one of our three cats. 
     She is the one that was an only cat with this lady that gave her up
     due to her boy friend not liking cats. She went on food strike and 
     was so sickly when we picked her. Anyways we've tried so hard to give
     her as much love as can be, including our other two that are constanly
     trying with her. Well for a while she looked like she was coming
    around. She actually spend some time in the mornings playing with the
    other two. She even comes around when there is only one person in the 
    house and sit near you. But try to touch her or pick her up or give her
    some loving and she growls and runs away. When you pick her up she
    hisses and growls but I still love her. Anhow, it came to a point that
    I was/am real worried for her well being. If she is constantly hiding
    from others. Slapping the other cats around and only time she comes to
    us is when there is poeple food, Does not eat a lot of cat food, Even
    our cat sitter (which by the way is a wonderful cat person) felt that
    there was something wrong with her.  I could not live with the thought
    that the poor baby might be sufferring from something. So this morning
    she went to the vets. This is the same cat that we were told was two
    years old and spayed which we found out later she was and old cat. 
    The vets said they are going to have to open her up to see if she is
    spayed. They are also going to do all kinds of test on her to see if 
    she does have some kind of physical problems. She also all of a sudden
    at the vets is acting like a little angel. The vet and the Shelter
    poeple think that if there is no physical problems with her that she is
    not happy at our house. ( a few times when the door was open she
    actualy tried to get out).  They feel that they could keep her and 
    place her in a one cat home. I love her and want her to be happy. 
    I fear what might happen if she goes back to the shelter for a long 
    time. But fact is that she is not happy with us. and for seven months
    we have tried to give all the love and lobster and turkey that we can
    ;-) to no availe.  The new shelter (Newburry) I haven't been but 
    my fiance' says its beautiful, clean and odorless with lots of happy
    cats that have found homes, and waiting for pick up . There are only 
    a handful of kitties waiting for adoption. 
    Now the second part to the story and some questions. I have also shared
    with you my love for Main Coons. and my Keesha the overly affectionate
    Main Coon baby that I love to peices. Well guess what, Keesha's dad
    a huge gourgeus now nuetured with huge paws and all which looks exactly
    like Keesha but ten times large ;-) called the BOSS is now at the
    shelter looking for a home.  He has been an indoor only. We would love
    to bring this fellow home. Since Racheal is probably not coming back
    to us. (sigh).  
    Myself in the past have witnessed visouse attacks from male cats in
    out household on females cats. One of our noter friends is currently
    also going through this. Is this the norm for all males? The Boss
    is currently loose with all the other cats and kittens and they say 
    he is great with everyone. I know they probably don't feel that 
    territorial in a shelter environment. We would love to have him. 
    I love large cats and I love Coons. But more than anything I love
    my baby keesha, and I love our Ziba and don't want to risk them 
    being horrassed by the gigantic male bully. 
    We are thinking of , if the results for Racheal we good and nothing 
    physically was wrong with her, and the shelter thinks they can find
    her a home that she will be happier in, then we like to give the
    BOSS a chance. They tell us as long as he has a window to look out of
    he is happy. He is after all my Keesha's dad. and he is a splitting
    image of her with the exception of size ofcourse. What do you folks
    think. 
    It is hard to accept that Racheal might be happier elsewhere. With all
    the love we have for her. But if that is the case, then what can I do.
    One thing I know if for the six/seven months that she's been with us
    she has been a grouch, and does not appear to be a happy cat. 
    
    I need advice and encouragement, 
    
    Shaw          

    Sorry, can't give you an answer ... I can only share with you an
    experience I had.
    
    We adopted a cat (male) who had been abused and brought him home
    to two cats ... one a queen and very territorial (a whimp named 
    Tiffany) and the other a Maine Coon.  Well, I say a Maine Coon because 
    he (Otis) weighs anywhere from 18-20 pounds, is highly intelligent and 
    has all the physical characteristics (i.e., mane around his neck, long 
    bushy tail, long coat, HUGE paws with pads of fur between each toe, etc.).
    We don't have papers on him, however.  Otis adjusted beautifully but 
    the new male did NOT like Tiffany and ended up cornering her and attacked 
    her repeatedly.  Come to find out he had a tumor on his thyroid and, to 
    make a long story short, the veterinary hospital adopted him - removed
    the tumor and kept him as their "house" cat until he died of
    cardiomyopathy.
    
    We since adopted (years later) a little female whom Otis bonded with
    immediately ... and whom Tiffany adjusted beautifully.
    
    Dogs have come into our home and Otis has this 'ho-hum' attitude and
    is accepting of everything (except a mouse he killed) and everyone.
    His temperment is outstanding, his eyes are human-like and he acts
    like a 2-year old child.  As for adopting a Maine Coon ... I personally 
    don't feel he/she will have a problem adjusting.  As for Racheal - only 
    you know what you are living with day-to-day.
    
    It always amazes me to see shelters - with literally dozens of cats -
    each one adjusting beautifully with the rest.  Each one sleeping in 
    their own bed/blanket, playing with the others and grooming each other.  
    Perhaps we humans share some of the problem ... wanting perfection and 
    not being able to accept the possiblity that there will be (at times) 
    discord.  I know I get rattled when a couple of mine decide to play 
    and it appears to be confrontational.
    
    For Racheal's sake - I hope there is nothing physically wrong with her. 
    I do know that some cat's are "one" owner felines and perhaps that may
    be the problem.  In any event - good luck and keep us posted as to how
    everything turns out! 
    
    Marilyn
     

    I know how difficult it is, but you are doing the right thing by
    looking out for Rachael's best interests.  There is nothing wrong with
    that.  If the vet is offering to keep her for a time (until a new home
    is found) and she is happy there by all means let them help.  You can
    always have a say in her final placement, meeting the new owners, etc. 
    Some cats just weren't meant to be around other cats.
    
    I do support your decision 100%, and feel you are doing what is best
    for Rachael, not yourselves.  Please keep us posted.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I agree with Roberta completely as far as Rachael is concerned.  As to
    the new Maine Coon, Boss, I say go for it.  I have a Maine Coon
    look-a-like, who is the biggest mush I've ever met (biggest in more
    ways than one!).  I have heard that they are known for a great
    temperament, and certainly Sebastian fits that.  As Boss is neutered, 
    he hopefully will have lost that male agressiveness, and toned down to
    a typical loving Coon.  
    
    Good luck, whatever decisions you make about the two of them!
    
    Linda

    
    BTW, I don't think Racheal needs to be "opened up" to determine whether
    or not she's been spayed.  If she hasn't been spayed, she'll periodically
    go into heat, which should be fairly obvious.
    
    len.
     

    I took in a six month old tortoiseshell and white female once because
    her owner couldn't keep her. We did try to make her welcome - my own
    cats were a little younger than her at the time - but she would have
    none of it. She snarled and hissed at them and, although she got fairly
    reconciled to us, she didn't like the other two at all. In the end, I had 
    to contact the Cats Protection League and ask them to place her in a home 
    where she would be the only cat.
    We looked after her until they placed her and the situation didn't get
    any better - Jim and Rosie were scared of her. When her new owners
    turned up, she was quite savage: dabbing and hissing at everyone. They
    weren't fooled, though and took her anyway (Mum and I had a good cry
    when she went!).
    
    I'm so glad I let her go: she LOVED her new home. Lots of fuss and
    attention and NO COMPETITION!!!
    
    So I think that some cats do prefer to be on their own. Probably
    Rachael is one of them.
    Don't feel bad about letting her go - you're doing the very best you
    can for Rachael and sometimes that does mean admitting that she might
    be happier in another home. It's no slight on your home - she just
    wants exclusive love and attention.

    
    Thanks for the responses and support. Here is the situation, there is 
    this new building in Salisbury just near Newburry line, Called the
    Merimack River Feline Rescue Shelter, they opened last week. The
    vet is right down stairs where they are working on Racheal. Upstairs
    is the brand new shelter, which I will be working as a volunteer. I 
    went there last night for the first time, small but very clean place.
    They are in need of volunteers especially the 6:30 pm shift. So
    I'll do it a few nights a week. But Boss was there , he is everything
    that I've seen and admired in the Maine Coon ads on cat magazines.
    He is Huuuuuge. I could not beleive the size of his double paws.
    He is like a tiger with this long mane, he looks very much like our 
    Keesha. I could not beleive the size of his double paws. He is a 
    love I combed him last night and he would just roll and give you the 
    other side to groom. I even managed to pick him up and have him on
    my shoulder which felt like a sack of potatos. 
    He goes nutts over my girlfriend and every time she left the room he
    would Meow!! So we and the lady that runs the shelter all agree that
    Boss was meant for us, but 10 days or so ago this lady had shown an
    interest in him too. We were told that they will contact her and if
    she is not very serious Boss will be ours. Boss's sister is also up 
    for adoption, an all black cat wit huge gold eyes, she was just spayed
    her son, a very large baby Maine Coon is already spoken for. 
    As for Rachael, I realy don't know why they have to open her up!!
    I would think the just shaving her would show some kinda of a scar.
    Plus in the six or so months that she was with us we never felt 
    she was in heat. 
    We all sat around and discussed Rachael and none of us can realy 
    think of a day that we felt she was happy here. We gave her all the 
    love, but she just kept her distance. We are certain that she would
    prefer to be the only cat. People at the shelter think that they 
    might already have a human for her. Either way I will be at the 
    shelter on a regular basis now and will be there for her if need be.
    We have our fingers crossed, they should be able to tell us whether
    we can have him or not today.
    I have to start thinking of a new name for him .
     
    Shaw

    
    Friends I am so happy now I can jump for joy ;-)......
    My girlfriend just called, fortunately Rachael does not need to be 
    opened up. They are still running some test on her though , both 
    vets at the hospital think that she needs to be an only cat, and they
    know they can accomodate her. 
    Aslo, the lady the had a hold on the Boss, happened to be at the
    Shelter upstairs from the vets, when she saw how the Boss reacted to
    her (my girlfriend) she said this cat belongs to you;-) ;-) ;*D
    I have always always all my life wanted to have a huge Coon cat.
    This is going to be my best Christmas ever!
    We already have a name for him, Shaquille, being so big an all plus
    my girlfriends last name is Oneall (one extra l but ;*) ) so 
    Although in Spring Shaquille 's last name will change ;-) for now 
    he is Shaquille Oneall ;-) 
    Shaquille is coming home next Tuesday, since this comingThursday 
    we are going to the mountains for a few days and we want to home 
    with all the babies for the first few days of introduction.
    I am going to visit the big guy in a few hours cant wait!!
    
    Shaw

    Shaw, that is great news!  Looks like everything worked out exactly the
    way it was supposed to.  Good luck with Shaquille!
    

    ....I am SO happy for you!  If he's anything like my huge Otis you are
    definitely in for a treat.  They are just like human babies ... highly
    intelligent and have SO much personality.
    
    Merry Christmas and give him a big hug for me when you get him home!
    
    Marilyn
    
    

    
    Thank you for the kind words ;-) 
    
    Well two things, we went and visited the big guy last night, as we plan
    to everynight that we are around until we leave for the Xmas vacation.
    First thing I noticed is Shaquille somehow was not quite so becoming. 
    So any suggestions will be appreciated. We are thinking of a name that
    would go with a mighty fearless jungle beast ;-D 
    So far Tomba, is the only one we have come up with. 
    
    The sad news is, we got some results back from Racheal. If you remember
    I had mentioned that both Racheal and Ziba we adopted from this lady
    that had sort of a shelter at her house , well we were not provided 
    with all the history on the two cats, as Ziba so called spayed female
    had to be spayed last week.  Now with Rachael we were told that she
    is so sickly because she is depressed and misses her previous owner. 
    Well it has turned out to be more than that. She has Ulcers, and
    a case of feline herpes (I didn't know such a thing existed for 
    cats). Poor baby. She has to go through some other tests and then 
    medication, we are told that herpes is not curable but controlable. 
    The vets feel that they should treat her and then place her.  Once
    treated she will be at the shelter that I will be volunteering. 
    I know that it is going to break my heart to see her in a cage again. 
    I also know that I have to be strong and for the sake of all kitties 
    there show up and do what I have to do. 
    Ziba has already been tested for all, Keesha will be going to the vets
    (she has an opointment next Wednesday) for her shuts they will do a 
    complete check up on her then.  We are told not to worry about the 
    other two cats that shared the litter boxes with her. and that herpes
    can only be transferable if she had an open wound or something and
    the other two cleaned her. I don't know that !
    
    Shaw

    ...poor Rachael.  I wonder how in the world she got Herpes, did the vet
    give you any indication of how the virus got to her?  Maybe once she is
    on medication she'll feel a bit better and her mood will adjust
    accordingly.  I know your seeing her in a cage will be difficult,
    hopefully that special someone will see her and the match will be the
    same for them - as it is with you and your new Maine Coon.
    
    As for the big guy - well you could always call him Leo (i.e., the lion
    like his counterpart).  Otis somehow fit my big cat and I already
    decided when I get another big one I am going to name him Wilbur or
    Cecil.  Somehow those Victorian/British names seem to "fit"!  Lots of
    times I get names from the old movies (i.e., the American Movie
    Channel) because the names from that era aren't around as much as they
    used to be.
    
    Marilyn
    
    
    Something strong, masculine, unique, different and bold would be good,
    but probably already knew that!  Ha.

    
    My favorite (as yet unused) name for a big male is Captain Wow,
    borrowed from a science fiction story by Cordwainer Smith, who wrote
    several stories featuring cats.
    
    len.
    

    
    What was the name of the tigger in Jungle Book?
    
    Shaw

    Shere Khan - but I don't think that's how you spell it.

    When I first read that you considered Boss your Xmas present, I thought
    of the name Noel.
    
    Steffi 

    
    Hi I am not sure if there is a way to train a cat to stay away from 
    certain doors or not but it is worth asking as I am very concerned. 
    
    I told you all about our new addition Tomba the gentle giant.
    Well aparently in his earlier life he was allowed to roam outside. 
    Although the couple of weeks with us he has been comfortably indoors
    with enough windows to sit by, lately whenever someone has opened the
    front door he has been there ready to jump out. He actually got out
    three times and was cut and brought in. Twice with the kids friends 
    entering and exsiting the house.  Although we have talked to all the
    kids friends to be aware of that, you know how teenagers are and we 
    cannot always assume that they will remember everything ;-)
    Is there a way to let him know that a certain door is bad, (without
    putting him through a trumatic experience)?
    
    It is hard to relax when I am not home thinking that someone might 
    not notice him sneeking out!
    
    Shaw

    Jo once recommended sitting outside the door with a spray
    bottle and every time kitty tried to come outside giving him or
    her a squirt (try to avoid direct squirts in the face though).
    
    Worked with my crew.
    
    Jan

    
    How far north of the border is Durham (forgive my chauvinist Massachusetts
    residence ignorance of New Hampshire geography, and I don't have my maps
    handy)?  Also, any chance there might be llama wool on sale?  My
    youngest sister spins and weaves, and I'm sure she'd love a bundle of
    llama wool.
    
    len.
    

I replied to Len via mail that I wasn't sure where Durham, NH is
myself -- but it's basically somewhere near the seacoast so it 
can't be too far from the Mass. border.  We take Rt 101 east until
it intersects with Rt 125, take Rt. 125 north until it meets Rt 155
and go right (east) on Rt. 155.  Somewhere after that you'll see a
sign pointing to UNH and the road forks to the right -- look for
llama signs!

If anyone else if interested in purchasing llama wool please contact
me -- this isn't the place for me to advertise...

Weeping Willow Farm
Jan Brown
979 Isaac Frye Highway
Wilton, NH 03086
(603) 654-2161

    Durham is just north of Dover; they border each other. Actually,from
    the Boston are you can take 128N to Rt 1N to 95N. A few miles after the
    Hampton Toll gate, the highway will fork. Stay in the left following
    the signs to Dover and the Spaulding Turnpike. Go through all the Dover
    exits, including and eventually you will see signs for Sommersworth,
    Madbury and Durham/UNH. (I'm afraid that I can't give you route #s
    since about 2 years ago they changed them; I believe it used to be
    NH RT. 108)
    
    Deb

    
    Since Len mentioned Rockies little head, I have a question. My little 
    Keesha, now almost 8 months old, has gotten a lot bigger since 
    kitten hood, she now has these beautiful long arms, so she stands high
    she also has developed this gorgeuos long bushy tail. A tail so long 
    that if she doesn't keep half way up when she walks, it would be
    sweeping the floor. But her head seems to be still the same size as 
    when she was a kitten. Does the head grow later? ;-)  (silly question?)
    or is it just the kinda cat she is. 
    
    Shaw

    shaw, seems like she's at the "gangly teen age" stage.  Mondo's at that
    stage as well.  Got a LONG body, LONG tail, and LONG legs, but still a
    small head.  Trust me, they do go proportunate eventually.
    
    Holly
    

    
    While visiting the vet with Merlin yesterday, I asked about kitten
    growth.  Dr. Mackenzie said they'll continue growing, albeit much more
    slowly, until about age 15 months.  Rocky (and Blueberry and Robin)
    will be one year old in about 3 weeks, so maybe he's still got a chance
    for his head to catch up with the rest of him.  Rocky's not so much
    long as he is stocky.
    
    len.
       

    For all the photographers (or aspiring photographers):
    (reprinted, once again, without permission from Cat Fancy April 1994)
    
    
    Cats USA Photo Contest
    
    Is your purebred cat photogenic?  Does it pose every time you take out
    your camera?  Then enter a picture of your feline ham in the Cats USA
    1995 Photo Contest.
    
    This year's categories are Cats and Companions, and Fascinating Faces.
    For each category, judges will aware first, second and third prizes.
    They also will select a grand-prize winner from all photos submitted.
    
    The grand-prize winner will receive a Canon EOS Elan camera.  Each 
    first-prize winner will receive $150, second will receive $100, and 
    third will receive $75.  The judges also may choose to honor various
    entries with "Honorable Mention" status (no prizes awarded).  Winning
    photographs will appear in the 1995 edition of Cats USA.  All entries
    must be postmarked no later than May 31, 1994.
    
    To enter the contest, follow these guidelines:
    
    1.  Pick a category.  Judges reserve the right to recategorize entries.
    
    2.  Send color prints or slides of pedigreed cats or kittens.  Prints
        should be unmounted, unframed and a maximum size of 8 by 10 inches.
        Each entry must have the following information taped to the back of
        the photo or included with the slide:  the cat's name and breed,
    	the photographer's name, address and phone number, and the contest
    	category.  Do not write directly on the photo.
    
    3.	Send only previously unpublished photos.  Each person may submit as
    	many as three entries per category, but only one prize per person
    	will be awarded.
    
    4.	Any amateur photographer may enter except employees of Fancy 
    	Publications and their families.
    
    5.	All entries and photographs becomem the property of Cats USA and
    	will not be returned.  Entrants certify that they own the animals
    	photographed or have the owner's permission to enter the photo.
    
    6.	The prize will be awarded to the photographer if different from
    	the person submitting the photo.
    
    7.	Winners will be chosen by judges selected by Cats USA.  All
    	decisions are final.
    
    8.	All entries must be postmarked no later than May 31, 1994.  Send
    	entries to Cats USA 1995 Photo Contest, P.O. Box 6050, Mission
    	Viejo, CA 92690.
    
    
    Hey, I didn't notice that part about it having to be a pedigreed cat
    the first time I read this (not that it doesn't mention it enough
    times).  Bummer!  I must have been really distracted while I skimmed
    through the magazine.
    
    Jan

    
    Pedigreed only?  Bah humbug.
    
    It's not like I need another camera, though.
    
    len (who has more Nikons than cats).
    

    
    I wrote about Tomba our 2 year old Maine Coon earlier. Well he seems
    to amaze me. I think he might be a little boy in cat clothing ;-)
    He constantly wants to play with humans. He has a bunch of these 
    feather thingies in the closet. What I did one time was to pick him
    up to get one of his toys out of the closet. Now he just won't leave
    us alone. He fallows me everywhere around the house. He stands on his
    hind legs with his arms up in the air with the sweetest face begging
    you to pick him up so that he can ride to his toy closet. Since he
    is double pawed (well its more like he is wearing mittens, his paws 
    are huge and furry with black leather pads). If we don't play with him
    he gets bored real easy and goes and chases the girls around the house
    and make them scream. The girls do get back at hime though, they hide
    behind the door or under the bed and as he walks in the room they 
    jump him from the back. All in good fun though.  I have been around
    many cats in my life but never had one this close to human babies. 
    
    Shaw , Keesha, Ziba and Tomba (the gentle giant)

    
    Hello freinds, 
    
            Since it is starting to get beautiful outside, we are
    considering maybe we can bring out our cats on harnesses for supervised
    walks. 
    
            I have a few concerns. Is this realy a good idea, or would
    indoor cats be better off not being exposed to the outdoors. Would
    it make them want to get out at every opportunity the door is open. 
    Currently when the condo door is open none of them bother to venture
    the hallway as they have no concep that the corridor might lead them
    to what they see out of the window. If they do get to go out
    occassionly, does this have to become a regular thing and they will end
    up with a worse case of cabin feavor if they don't go out for a while?
    Are harnesses safe, is there a chance that kitty might escape it?
    Are there any brands that you would recommend to be the best/safest.
    
    Shaw

    I have four cats that use harnesses for their outside activity.  When 
    its windy out they prefer to sit in the window, but if it's really nice
    out they do try to position themselves near the door to make a mad
    dash.  Mostly the 12 year old does this, not the other three.  Scuff
    loves to roll in the dirt at every opportunity, this is best done w/out
    the harness on, because he gets caught in the lead.  I allow each cat
    approx. 20-25 ft. of lead, and they are supervised when out.  Each
    likes to eat grass and roll in dirt then take in some sun.  We have one
    that keeps the cricket population to a minimum in the yard.  I started
    by putting the harness on in the house without any lead, just to get 
    them accustomed to the feel it.  I have one that acts like Houdini, if 
    we don't see that he has 'reached the end of his rope' so to speak, he
    wiggles backwards with the lead in front of him and "escapes" from the
    harness.  He is a bit of a coward and usually just sits by the door to
    be let in, but we have had a scare or two.  
    
    Is this cruel to let them out on a harness?  I've lost too many over
    the years to consider it cruelty.  I can't live with another neighbor
    knocking on my door to say, "Do you own a black & white cat?"
    The cats love this arrangement, even if we move the box where the 
    leads & harnesses are kept, they all wake from a deep sleep no matter 
    where they are in the house and come running like a stampede.  
    
    Hope you have as much luck as I did with the acceptablity to this 
    arrangement.  Good Luck! 
          

    I bring my cats outside on occasion on a leash.  A couple of them
    really like it....the others are afraid of all the noises.  Only one
    tends to hang out around the door when I open it, but she doesn't make
    any mad dashed.  She will move out of the way when I tell her to, so
    it's not an inconvenience trying to get in and out.
    
    It takes  while to train them.  My oldest acts like a dog sometimes on
    the leash.  She will walk with me....it's pretty funny.  I'd defintely
    try it.  The only thing you have to make is that you put the leash on
    tight enough and try not to get the type that is one strand that runs
    around the cat.  They can easily slip out of this one.  Get the type
    that looks like this.  They really can't slip of this type.
    
    
    |     |
    |     |
    ---------
    |     |
    |     |
    
    ^     ^
    |     |
    |     this part goes around their chest/stomach
    |
    this part goes around their neck/.....
    
    I don't know if my artistic abilities are helping any here...
    
    michele

Well, I've had three different types of harnesses, and Buki manages to get
out of every one of them!  Is it all right to put just a leash on a collar,
or will he choke?  This will be his first summer as an indoor cat, and already 
he's getting antsy.

Laura

    Laura, I used the leash on a collar for Kelsey and he was fine.  I
    trained him that way, so the collar never bothered him.
    

I tried taking my cat with a paralyzed paw out on a harness with a lease.  It
is a small dog harness (is that what everyone else is using?).  If I put it on
properly, he thinks he is totally paralyzed, lies down, and refuses to move.
The time I took him outside, I put it on loosely.  He slipped the harness 
and was gone for 24 hrs.  

Now that we have moved to a new place, I want to try again.  I really cannot
have him slip his leash here since he would take off and I would never see
him again.  He used to be an outside cat (he was a stray) until he got hurt
(we think he got hit by a car).  Is there a cat harness or should I try a 
collar?

-- Nisha

    
    
    I simply cannot risk the chance that my babies might slip away from 
    the harness. Not only a few months back we lost a cat to a predator
    but in my area, (Hampton, Seabrook) there are a lot of strays. 
    We have been very active in rounding them up and testing them at 
    the shelter we volunteer and getting 'em ready for adoption,
    unfortunately there were a few that turned out positive for AIDs and
    I just don't know what will happen if my babies got in a rumble with a 
    possitive cat. 
    Like I said my other concern is, now that they are used and happy 
    indoors, would bring back too much memories for an ex outdoor cat
    to expose him again and then expect him to live happily indoors. 
    
    Shaw

    
    
    	For my fur-face (KC & Rusty) I have setup a run in the backyard
    	they can run the width of the backyard. I use a collar and 
    	they don't mind it at all. KC like to sleep in some of the 
    	tall grass. This work well last summer. 
    

re: .216

there are special kitty harnesses.  You may find that a figure-8 type
harness may slow your houdini up a bit, particularly if adjusted well.
See also .213 in this string - the harness described there is a 
variation of the figure-8.  The difference being that in some harnesses
there is one adjustment location that allows you to change both the 
neck and body parts.

Dog harnesses are typically too rigid for amoeba-like cats.


kathy

    Linda, you must really be tired, cause these updates are not in the JJ
    topic!  :^)
    
    I am really pleased to hear she and the babies are doing well, and
    really got a kick out of the fact that she hasn't a clue on how to be a
    mom.  I'm sure she'll figure it out (with your great help!) with this
    being her first (and last thank goodness) litter and all.  Thanks for
    pointing out the fact how awful the weather was yesterday and last
    night.  I was so happy she finally had her babies I neglected to
    realize how terrible it would have been had she had them outdoors at
    the restaurant.  Good for you for seizing that opportunity to hold the
    kittens!  I'm sure there will be many others; in fact, I wouldn't be
    surprised if JJ figures out you're a better mom and hands them all over
    to you so she can go back to eating and sleeping all day.  :^)
    
    Keep up with the patting... those dirty looks and swats are so typical,
    and she'll eventually stop.  After a time I quit being afraid of them
    and just kept up with the patting whenever I could sneak one in.  Plus,
    she never bloodied me when she scratched (except when I picked her up
    to put her in the carrier); all those scratches were superficial ones.
    
    Thanks for the update, and keep up the good work!!  My guess is some of
    those colors on the babies might lighten up or change some, and they
    won't be all boys!
    
    -Roberta (who really misses JJ and can't wait to visit)
    

    
    Wow!  4 Little red kittens!  YEAH!!!  Very big congrats to mom (Linda,
    Grandma Roberta, and JJ (the cat ;-)
    
    I hope all the little booties and bonnets fit all thoses little heads
    and paws.  Panther knit them all in ROYAL Blue (what else?)
    
    I hope all the little ones and Momcat continue to do so well.  Linda it
    sounds like you are making GREAT progress.  JJ will learn to trust you,
    especially if you decide to take over her kitten care duties ;-) 
    
    Keep up the good work and thanks so much for keeping us posted!
    
    Feline Happy for a rescued family!
    
    Sue & Panther & Spots & Cinnamon (Uncle Cin? Red Boy kitty?)
    

    Re: .23
    
    Whah...? How'd I do that?? Senility is setting in! 
    
    Just to confuse things even more, I've moved my three replies to the 
    JJ note. 
    
    I wouldn't bet money that the colors won't change, but these guys are 
    definitely boys! 
    
    Re: .24
    
    Thank you, Sue. The booties and bonnets are perfect. Ms Panther has 
    impeccable taste!
    
    Linda
    

    Happy, happy, joy, joy!
    
    There is a potential home out there for Dolly (one of the cats I'm
    fostering on my patio).  A friend has a new person in his group
    that once had a long-haired black cat with green eyes and thinks
    she might want another one.  If this works out Dolly will have a
    really nice indoor home and I'll be able to get updates on how she
    is doing.  
    
    The push is on to find homes for the 3 cats on my patio since I will
    probably be moving in August to an apartment that doesn't have that
    kind of patio access.  I'd bring those three inside with my four 
    temporarily if I had more than 640 sq. ft. and if I could afford to
    get them all tested and vaccinated (and neutered/spayed).  It may 
    still happen if I don't find enough homes before the move.
    
    But, in the mean time, I'm thrilled about this potential home.  Dolly
    is a great cat and she deserves a loving owner who can bring her inside
    and give her the care and attention she deserves.  I sure wish I could
    her her  (and the other two) but 7 cats in one tiny apartment is more
    than even I can handle I think.
    
    I've got two other iffy homes for Ashlar and Joey.  They're both with
    people I know well so I could see them occasionally to.  This may work
    out after all.
    
    YEAH!!!!
    
    Jan (pardon me while I get overly excited about such a small thing)
                                                    

    Jan...it is not a small thing....it's GREAT news and I know
    how news like this can be so exciting.  All cats deserve a loving
    home....and you just hate to seem them living alone in the big
    world!!
    
    Keep us posted...
    
    Sandy

    I've had a phone conversation with the woman (Beth).  She sounds
    like she'd be a great person for Dolly.  She's read the information
    I sent my friend including the caveat that Dolly could test positive
    for FELV.  If she takes Dolly and she does test positive she believes
    she would keep her anyway.  She's been through the FELV stuff with
    a former cat.  She's also quite willing to return Dolly to me if it
    doesn't work out as opposed to dumping her in a shelter.  She
    understands how I feel about that as she had to place one of her cats
    once and did so with the stipulation that the cat be returned to her
    if it didn't work out.  
    
    This is sounding so good.  I'm really excited.  She's going to come 
    over some time in the next week if we can schedule her visit around
    friends visiting and her furniture arriving (she only moved out here
    about 2 weeks ago).  I've doublechecked with her and the place she's
    living does accept animals.  
    
    Keeping my fingers crossed,
    
    Jan (who thinks Dolly deserves nothing but the best)
    

    good luck!!!
    
    Deb

    For Father's Day I went to visit my father and his wife up in 
    Santa Cruz.  We went to breakfast at this little place in Aptos
    (take the Seaside exit off of highway 1 and go away from the beach).
    It's called "Cat's Incredible Cafe".  When you walk in the door 
    there's a bulletin board to the left that has pictures of cats
    that customers (or whoever) have sent to them.  The walls have
    a ring of cats painted/stenciled near the ceiling and all the
    menu items are named for cat things (cat on a hot tin roof, cat's
    cradle, etc.)  The omelettes are named after jaguar, lynx, tabby,
    etc. and the list of goodies for the make your own omelettes where 
    you choose what you want is called "kittens".
    
    It was a cool place.  The food was really good and the prices were
    outstanding.  Gotta find my way back there again some time.
    
    Jan

    Re:  .228
    
    Beth is coming to meet Dolly tonight after work.  I'm really excited.
    I'm hoping they hit it off okay.  And, with luck, we'll have a new
    FELINEr noting in here soon.  Beth works out of my office in Santa 
    Clara.
    
    Keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed...
    
    Jan

    I'm so excited I just can't keep this in.  There's another stray 
    who periodically hangs around my patio (yeps there's more than 3).
    I've been calling her Torbie Tyler (yep, she's a tortie tabby).
    I've never been able to get near her although recently she's let
    me come within 3-5 feet of her while she eats or relaxes on my 
    patio.
    
    Recently she's begun to chirrup and rub on the screen when I'm 
    inside the house.  I took this as a really good sign and tonight
    when she did that I went and sat out on the patio at ground level.
    I just sat there with Joey on one side, Dolly on the other and 
    Torbie making 3 ft. circles around me or resting 3-4 feet in front
    of me.  I kept talking to her the whole time.  After a while I got
    tired of sitting and decided to go inside.  Before I did that I 
    went and checked the food bowls and decided they could use a bit 
    more food since she seemed intent on having a large meal tonight.
    
    While I was by the bowls she came really close to me (within her
    3 foot barrier by at least a foot).  At one point I came up behind
    her when she was eating and actually got close enough to touch her
    back lightly.  She jumped a bit and moved away a couple of feet but
    she didn't run (usually she runs if I get closer than 3 ft).  I
    kneeled down on the patio close to the bowls and talked to her some
    more and made the little chirruping sounds I've been making to her.
    She came up and ate some more.  At another point I actually touched
    her back again, this time she didn't jump and run she just looked at
    me and moved away.  
    
    I didn't try to touch her again after that.  I just kept talking to her
    while she ate and kneeled there (my knees were dying after a while).
    Finally, after she moved away again I took that opportunity to get up
    and come inside.  I told her goodnight and that it was wonderful 
    visiting with her.
    
    I'm just so excited I can't explain it.  I've been trying to get close
    to her for a while.  I've been getting upset about the thought of 
    moving when I haven't made any progress with her.  I can't just move
    away and not know what happened with her.  I've got 30-60 days finally
    get her to trust me.
    
    Only other cat people would understand how much it means to me to have
    gotten this close.  I just had to tell someone.
    
    Thanks for listening...
    
    Jan
        

    counds like great progress!
    
    Deb

    I know the feeling and it is one of the best feelings in the
    world!!  Great job Jan and you'll have Torbie Tyler (love the name)
    eating out of your hands in no time!!!  
    
    Sandy

         Good for you, Jan!
    
    					- Andrea

    Acck! I deleted it when I meant to edit it.
    
    Okay, I'll try again.  I need to post this.  It needs to be public though
    I'll respect the privacy of this person if she doesn't want the public
    to know what she did to receive such praise.  If she doesn't mind, I'll
    be happy to share the info with you.
    
    JANET BOBB IS ONE OF THE KINDEST, MOST WONDERFUL PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!!
    
    Thank you, Janet.
    
    Jan

    I'm happy to take your word for it, but I AM intrigued! What has Janet
    done to deserve such glowing praise?

    enquiring minds want to know!!  ;-)
    
    diane
    

    I need Janet's permission to tell.
    
    Jan

    Okay...I'll guess!!  What would make Jan the happiest person
    on earth???   My guess is...Janet somehow helped with Jan's
    stray population either by adopting or donating towards medical
    expenses!!
    
    I can only guess...because another old time feliner helped me
    out in the past...and I was FOREVER grateful!!
    
    Sandy

    Okay.  I have permission.  Janet is great!  She sent me a 
    donation to cover my vet expenses on the three cats I'm trying
    to place.  She set enough to cover not 1, not 2 but all 3 cats
    for FELV/Aids tests, vaccinations and spay/neuter.
    
    I was truly overwhelmed when the check arrived.
    
    One day I hope to have my finances straightened out enough
    that I can return the kindness to someone else in need.  As
    Dian Wilde once put it...to aid the karma.
    
    So many people in this file have been wonderful about helping
    out with the stray cat population, etc. by donating their time or
    money or intense efforts to rescue.  I don't want to undermine
    all these wonderful people at all by singling out one person.
    I just felt the need to express the feelings I had when Janet
    did this wonderful thing.
    
    Jan
    

    Dolly, Ashlar and Joey (my foster strays) are all going in to
    The Cat Hospital for their combination Leukemia/Feline Aids
    test on Saturday morning.  
    
    Please cross your fingers, toes (and whatever else) and say
    prayers that they all test negative.  I just don't know what
    I'll do if there are any positives kitties in this group.
    
    Jan

    How does one indicate a scream of joy in here???
    
    I'm so excited.  I just called the vet and Dolly, Ashlar and
    Joey all tested negative for Feline Leukemia and Feline Aids!!!!!
    
    Happy happy joy joy, happy happy joy joy...
    
    Jan

    Yabba Dabba Do.....that works for me!!!  Jan...I know that 
    wonderful feeling and I'm sure your on cloud nine!!!!
    
    Sandy

    YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    
    (is that close enough to a scream??)
    
    Congrats!  The best news ever!!
    
    Pam

    YY      YY   EEEEEEEE       AAA       HH       HH !!!
     YY    YY    EEEEEEEE      AA AA      HH       HH !!!
      YY  YY     EE           AA   AA     HH       HH !!!
       YYYY      EE          AA     AA    HH       HH !!!
        YY       EEEEE      AAAAAAAAAAA   HHHHHHHHHHH !!!
        YY       EE         AA       AA   HH       HH !!!
        YY       EE         AA       AA   HH       HH !!!
        YY       EEEEEEEE   AA       AA   HH       HH
        YY       EEEEEEEE   AA       AA   HH       HH !!!

    Another big hurrah here.
    
    Last night when I fed the outdoor babies (and told them what good
    kitties they were for staying away from those nasty FELV/Fel Aids
    germs) I took the opportunity to try again to get close to Torbie.
    
    She's been playing this game with me.  She wants to be close but
    when I get too close she backs off.  I've touched her a few times
    recently and then we go through a phase of I'm not coming near you
    because you touched me.  Later she'll be climbing the screen on 
    my patio door to get my attention.  She climbs till she's high enough
    to look in and see me on the couch.  Then when I get up and move
    towards her she backs away from the door.
    
    I told her we weren't going to play her little kittie games anymore
    but you all know I can't resist.  
    
    So, on with the story.  Last night as I was feeding the cats she came
    up to eat too.  She didn't seem to be paying much attention to me (for
    a change) so I reached down and scratched her on the back between the
    shoulder blades.  She purred and arched her back as if she loved it.
    Then she looked up and realized who was doing that to her and ran off.
    I got one more chance a little later and again she seemed to love it
    but then freaked out and ran off.
    
    The little tart.  I know she loves it but she's playing hard to get.
    We're back to not touching again this morning.  Ah, but we're getting
    some where.  It's only a matter of time Torbie Tyler until I have you
    hook, line and sinker. :^)
    
    Jan
    

    News from the Cordes rescue front.  
    
    Ashlar and Joey went to the vet for their shots today.  Dolly
    was nowhere to be found.  This really messed up the budget for
    the cost of her shots.  If she went with the group it was cheaper.
    
    Anyway, Ashlar is healthy, no ear mites, dealing with lots of fleas
    and has some gum inflammation but no real problems.  He's approx.
    1.5 years old.
    
    Joey is healthy, no ear mites, weighs about 8 lbs. and is about 1
    year old.  Joey messed with the budget too.  He had a couple of 
    spots on his ears that the vet was suspicious about.  So, she took
    a culture for ringworm and sent me home with medicine for treating
    it just in case.  I've got to call in 5 and 14 days to check the
    results.
    
    Both Ashlar and Joey will be neutered very soon.  Dolly may have
    already been spayed.  When I can catch her and get her in for her
    check up the vet will shave her abdomen to check for a spay scar.
    
    
    Last night there was a 3 alarm fire in my apartment complex.  There
    were approx. 8 families left without homes.  The building is a total
    loss.  A neighbor child said one of her friends left (the red cross
    put the families up at a hotel) without her cat and wasn't coming
    back.  I'm hoping she's mistaken.  A.J. (the kitty) had a mid-afternoon
    snack on my patio.  I'm keeping an eye out for the owner and to see
    if he ends up abandoned or not.
    
    No one was either killed or injured in the fire.  I don't know how 
    many people had pets that are wondering loose.  I spoke to one man
    who had found his black cat but hadn't yet found his 12 year old
    part siamese.  I've made several trips over to that building in 
    search of Dolly (since I haven't found seen her at all today) and
    haven't seen any other cats.  I hope he finds kitty soon.
    
    Just to reassure anyone who is wondering...I did see Dolly last night
    after the fire so I'm pretty sure she's okay.  I believe she is keeping
    a low profile after all the commotion we've had since last night and
    again today as the families were relocated into some of the empty 
    apartments.  I'm hoping she'll show up tonight.  I am a bit worried
    about her though.
    
    Jan

    I'm glad to hear Ashlar and Joey's vet visit came out okay.  I'm
    sure Dolly will return once all the commotion settles down.
    
    That's really sad about the fire....but I'm glad nobody got hurt.
    My guess is any of the missing cats from families that were impacted
    by the fire will SLOWLY make their way back to the building.  Let's
    just hope the families keep their eyes out for them...or you'll end
    up with all of those kitties seeking food.  
    
    Sandy
    
    
    Sandy

    Does everybody know you feed strays?  If people come back looking for
    their cats, might be helpful to put up some notices to have them check
    out your house if they can't locate their kitties.  
    Sarah

    Most of the people (and kids) in my area of the complex are aware
    that I feed cats.  I did tell the man who is looking for his 12
    year old cat that eventually most of the kitties in the complex
    make it to my patio for a meal.  I told him I'd keep an eye out
    for his cat. 
    
    I haven't seen A.J. again since Saturday.  I'm hoping his family
    got relocated in the complex and that he is once again enjoying
    their company.
    
    Dolly returned to the fold Saturday night.  She disappeared again
    all day Sunday but returned at night.  This morning she was right
    there as usual waiting for me to feed her breakfast and to get a
    few strokes before I left for work.  Guess things are back to normal
    for her gain.  Hmmm, I've wondered if she's figured out what a weekend
    is and that this is when I've gathered them for a vet visit before.
    
    Jan

    Oh, one more thing...
    
    I just wanted to let you know that I've been able to actually pet
    Torbie for long periods of time recently.  She seems to love it
    but is still very wary of me.  I usually try to pet her whiles 
    she's eating.  That's when she has her head down and doesn't usually
    realize I'm about to pet her till I'm actually doing it.  We're
    making very good progress.  I've only got 30 days to get her tamed,
    etc. so that I can either place her in a home or move her with me.
    
    Jan

    FYI, the discussion on my rescue activities (and anyone else's too)
    will be continued in the new RESCUE ACTIVITIES topic (793.0).
    
    :^)
    
    Jan

    
    I have mentioned /bragged about my babies before, Ziba now almost three
    a beautiful orange/blond toxedo cat, Keesha our little girl who 
    just turned one year old (part maine coon) and the love my life,
    happy birthday sweeheart ;-) and ofcourse the boss Tomba are almost 
    three year old male Maine Coon, which is getting bigger and stronger
    more muscular by the minute. They are all indoor only cats. The two 
    girls have always got along fine, Ziba has been sorta Keesha's
    protector, trainor and companion. Every time she is in trouble like 
    being chased by Tomba, Ziba is right there to protect her. 
    Anyhow over a week or so ago, to our surprize and disgust we found
    some fleas on them. Although they never ever go outdoors, they 
    sit by the screen and are like a few inches away from grass and 
    all the squirels and birds that we feed. I think the flease just 
    jumped in through the screen. Anyways we sprayed them with the new 
    Hartz flea spray for cats and did up the house an all. Although 
    the spray was pretty effective, it left their coat real mangy looking
    no amount of brushing would help. (they claimed on the bottle that
    this spray also carries conditioner and will beautify their coat, 
    yeah right!). Well I think that cats are very consious (sp) of their 
    looks and the poor babies looked like strays after that spraying. 
    It was just unbearable. They were all hiding all the time and ate 
    very little and just were not themselves any more.  So we decided 
    to wash the darn thing off their coats. We shampooed them with some
    real nice human shampoo. I  cannot believe the amount of dirt that
    came out. Now they are all fluffy and smell like strawberries ;-)
    But what this truma of the flea spray thing did to them was 
    creat this incredible bound.  Tomba used to chase Keesha around and
    most of the time if we didn't bring the poor girl out he would confine
    her to our bedroom. Like chase her down the hall and make her run and 
    hide under the bed or in the closet. Ziba hated Tomba and although
    they never got in a bloody fight, they would hiss and growl and 
    chase each other occassionaly and ofcourse every time Tomba chased
    Keesha, Ziba was right there to defend her little friend. Ever since
    the shapmoo (maybe its because they all smell the same now), Tomba 
    and Keesha are kissing and cleaning each other. To our surprize we
    found Ziba and Tomba cureled together last night. Ziba wouldn't even
    get on our huge bed if Tomba was anywheres near.  It is so nice to
    see the three of them so loving. And after the wash their personalities
    have realy perked up, They walk around like they know they are 
    even more beautiful now. 
    So if anyone has cats that don't get along, I've got a cure for you ;-)
    Go and get some of that disgusting hartz flea spray (comes in silver
    plastic bottle) spary them, then get some nice strawberry flavoured 
    shampoo and wash them and see the miracle of  love ;-)
    
    Shaw

    Shaw...you just proved a point that has always been stated in
    this file.  When introducing cats....wash them ALL with the
    same shampoo so they all smell alike!!!
    
    So glad to hear the furfaces are getting along....it makes life
    so much easier on everyone!!!
    
    Sandy (who still has to confine Van Gogh...sigh)

    
    Well, we got this shampoo from Agway that seems to have worked better 
    than anything else we used for fleas. The cats are real content now
    and the first two days, they realy enjoyed their uninterrupted sleep. 
    
    However Keesha, our part Maine Coon cat, with semi long hair, now has 
    matts all over her chest, arm pits stomach and butt. We realy do not 
    want to shave them off as that covers a very large area. I have been
    try to deal with them one at a time as the poor girl hates it when 
    we try to comb them out and now she runs away from us and gets real
    nervous when we pick her up. Is there a product or a method that would
    be less stressful for the cat to remove matts. 
    
    Thanks, 
    
    Shaw

    My Thor turns into a matted mess. He hates to be groomed. Every four 
    months or so I bring him to the grooms and have the matts shaved out.
    He went this week and had his belly and part of his legs shaved. The
    groomer said he quite mean and had to be muzzled. From now on he'll
    have to be tranquilezed they told us. Poor kitty.

    There are a few things that can help with the matting situation.
    First you really need to take the time to comb the cats (not brush)
    at least once a week.  Use a wide toothed metal comb, do not drag it
    throught he fur but gently comb from the body out and up.  Do small
    sections at a time.  
    
    For the area that has matts, get a seam ripper.  Be very careful not to
    stab the seam ripper into the skin but use it to rip through the matts. 
    Then take a comb and work from the tip of the matted area down to the
    skin.  This should help quite a bit!
    
    Also, the cleaner you keep the cat, the less likely to matt in some
    cases too.
    Karen
    

    
    Keesha never had matts before as all our cats get combed and brushed 
    regurarly. It all happened after my girlfriend spray her with that
    darn stuff from Hartz that doesn't even work. Since then she has been
    shampood twice. I got one of those brushes that help somewhat but 
    mostly just pull the matts right out into the brush. All of a sudden
    her whole chest and belly is matted. I think some of it is due to 
    not being able to thoroughly comb and dry her after shampoos as the 
    poor baby seems to go through enough truma. She is the toughest out 
    of the three to wash. Last night after getting clawed and bitten to 
    death we managed to cut off all the matts under her arm pits and chest.
    Tonight we shall atempt the belly area.  I don't think she like the 
    idea as she is very consious of her beautiful long furr. 
    
    Shaw

    
    
    I have a little concern for our Main Coon, Tomba. He doesn't like 
    canned food very much. There are a couple of types of kalkan, seafood
    with tuna and beef stew that he will take two or three bites of lick
    off the juice, and a couple of types of shiba which he'll do the same. 
    But he begs for his dry Iams, and his dry treats for tartar. Why am I 
    concerned then? Well, he looks real chobby on the sides of his belly. 
    but when you pick him up he feels real hard, like all muscle. I don't 
    know if it is coniencidential or not but, since we rid him of his fleas
    (after two baths and a few sprayings of the house) he has turned into 
    a couch potato. He doesn't chase around my two girls any more (kitty 
    girls not human) he doesn't chase his feather toy either, well maybe 
    once around the room, then he will lie on his back and wave his arms
    for you to bring the toy to him. Although he is as jolly as ever and
    there are no signs of depression or anything, I am wondering if this
    dry food is too fatning or too much nuritioment. Is it normal for a 
    three year old just to laze around all day? If I switch his dry food
    to the kind for none active, older cats will he still get enough 
    nuritioment?  He was never into poeple food. does not eat chicken 
    breast like the other two gobble, some tuna juice maybe. 
    
    Shaw

    Shaw...I have two cats that barely will eat wet food but they
    do love their Iams and/or Science Diet!!   As long as he continues
    to eat that good dry food...I wouldn't worry about him not eating
    canned food!!
    
    During the VERY hot days this summer...all my cats were very lazy
    and barely would play with their toys!!  I noticed a few nights ago...
    (since the cool weather is back) that my cats have ALOT more energy!!
    They are just starting to play their chasing/climbing games again...
    and enjoy the feather toys alot more!!  Have you seen any difference
    in Tomba's energy level in the last few days????
    
    BUT...I also know that when Van Gogh was having teeth problems he
    stopped his playing completely and just wanted to lie around!!!  So
    if you don't seen any difference in Tomba soon...I would recommend
    a vet busy just to make sure he's not in pain or something is wrong!
    
    Sandy

    
    Thanks Sandy, I do not think that he is hurting, I will check his 
    gums/teeth. He is a happy cat, and will play/swat at the feather 
    as long as he is lying on his back and you make the thing fly by
    him he just is not running as much. Unless, I see more reason to 
    worry, he is going to wait for the vet visit as all three are due 
    for their yearly visit next month. 
    
    Shaw

    Hi -
    
    One thing you might ask your vet about is whether his Thyroid levels
    are right.  My sister-in-law has a kitty with a malfunctioning thyroid
    and she displays many of the same symptoms you describe - fat, low
    energy, etc.  Ellie is now on daily thyroid medication and is doing
    much better.  
    
    Dana

    What came to my mind was diabetes; if a physical shows nothing, you
    might want to get a complete blood profile done. It can help pinpoint
    what (if anything) is wrong.
    
    Deb

    
    Geez, diabetes, just 'cause he's not running around as much. 
    Tomba was found on Plum Island, where I'm told many main coons roam. 
    From day 1, he never liked much but dry food. We were told he was
    2 (this is just an estimate). His weight gain, might be due to 
    being nuetured shortly after we adopted him. Like I said, he feels 
    very muscular. He has just stopped chasing the girls around since now
    they all smell the same. My girlfreind says one reason he has been 
    so mellow the past few days is due to him finally being rid of fleas 
    and now he can sleep without them little bugger's interruptions/bites.
    
    We will however have the vet check everything when they go in for their
    yearly checkup.
    
    Shaw
        

    > Geez, diabetes, just 'cause he's not running around as much. 
    
    No, I suggested diabetes becuase he wasn't very interested in eating
    just licking the juices and eating a small quantity), and because of his
    slowed down activity level. Those were the exact symptoms that my cat
    Jimmy had when we diagnosed him. Your physical description sounds
    similar, too (big and muscular, not fat).
    
    Deb 

    Also, couldn't fleas have caused a tapeworm problem for him ?
    I know that can be a problem for dogs.  You might want to have 
    your vet test a stool sample for parasites.

    Leslie

    I was visiting Jo at the vet's office where she works on Wednesday
    afternoon.  It was after 5pm and things were really getting busy.
    She was really sick but was the only one there at the office and
    she was totally swamped.  So, I spent a lot of time just hanging
    around the CAT waiting room.
    
    The resident cat "Boris" was sitting in the lobby so I spent a 
    few minutes petting him.  One of the guys came over from the DOG
    waiting room to see him.  This guy has a 110 lb dog name "Sumo"
    Great name for a big dog.
    
    Anyway, this woman brought in the cutest little snippet of a cat.
    She was a beautiful red, shorthaired female.  She was a little 
    spooked as she checked out the waiting room.  I bent to pet her 
    and the woman warned me that she was very shy with people.  I petted
    her for a minute or so and then left her alone.  A few minutes later
    I felt something touch my leg.  I looked down and there was the little
    red cutey.  She looked up at me with big eyes and proceeded to stretch
    up and begin to climb my leg.  I bent down and picked her up and held
    her for a few minutes.  
    
    Her owner was flabbergasted.  She was too amazed that kitty had come
    to me.  She's decided that maybe kitty is only shy with men, not 
    women.
    
    I feel special.  How sweet of her to single me out of the people in
    the waiting room to trust.  She was just the sweetest little thing
    and her fur felt like silk.  I can't get over it.
    
    Jan

    Jan..
    
    This same thing happened to me a few years ago when I went to visit my
    aunt and uncle.  I hadn't seen him in a while, and he had since acquired 
    a cat. (BIG cat .. 18 lbs!!)  Anyway, I saw him and immediately went over 
    to see him (gee, I wonder why!(-:).  My aunt said "he's a shy cat, and
    doesn't like ANYONE besides the family".  Well, I was petting him for a
    while, and left him.  We were sitting in the living room talking and
    the cat walked into the living room.  I went over and picked up the cat
    and put it in my lap.  The cat stayed there for about 1/2 an hour!  My
    aunt and uncle were flabergasted!  They couldn't believe that "rocky"
    would sit there and get petted.  He didn't even do that with the
    family! (-:
    
    Holly
    

    
    	I'm not sure if this should be here but it seemed like the 
    appropriate place.  Can female cats "spray"?  I've seen both my
    females do this outside. And I believe one of them is doing this
    on my kitchen counters!!!! I know this is very gross, bear with me.
    I don't think they are urinating because they both faithfully use
    the litter box and when I've seen them do it they back up to the fence
    or my neighbors porch,(shhhhhh) and their tails are straight up,
    twitching and it shoots up at least as high as the top of the tail.
    	As far as the counter goes, I thought either my natural wood 
    cabinets were leaking something or my house was possessed.  They;ve
    done it on the coffee maker, and the microwave(which is quite tall).
    I've never caught them doing it on the counters.  This really disgusts
    me and my s.o.  (He's blamed the cats from day one)
    
    Help help help!       Sue

    Sue .. question .. are they spayed?  If not, that could be the problem. 
    Silver used to do this all the time until I got her spayed.  she is an
    indoor only cat, and used to back up to the side of the window sill and
    spray.  It was pretty disgusting.
    
    Holly
    

    
    	Sorry, they are both spayed.  I hope it's not something
    she will do forever, it smell pretty disgusting!
    							Sue

    I tried dir/title=music, dir/key=music, dir/title=jingle... I could not
    find it. There was a CD mentioned somewhere in this conference, the
    Meowy Christmas from Mike Spalla. I just wanted to say that friends
    from America contacted Mr. Spalla and could get a copy for me which
    they brought me last week then. Folks...
    
    That is GREAT!
    
    Nat :^)

    For the spraying problem, I've noticed that cats tend to do that when
    they are upset.  Has something changed in your household that might
    disturb them?  New addition?  Anything remotely cat-stressful?  
    
    My landlord's cat does this when he gets bent out of shape about the
    other cats (mine, mostly) traipsing through his house. My landlord
    lived downstairs and when his doors are open, my cats think there is
    nothing cooler than visiting his house.  Unfortunately, his cats don't
    think it's so cool. That's usually when the male starts spraying, so I
    try to keep mine out of his house.
    
    Also, you might want to try washing the spray marks away with white
    vinegar -- helps get rid of the smell so they don't go back there to
    mark.  
    
    
    kim

    Re:  .273
    
    SHOW KEY/FULL CATS*  under that you'll find CATS_AND_CHRISTMAS
    with two notes listed 672.0 and 683.0 (if I remember correctly).
    The mention of the CD is in 672.0.
    
    Jan
    Moderator, FELINE
    
    P.S.  When in doubt I just do a SHOW KEY/FULL and run through all
          the keywords until I find something close.  That's how I found 
          this one.
    

    
    
    Walking the streets of Porthsmouth NH yesterday, we came across 
    this little boutique called The Cat House. It is full of wonderful
    T-shirts, sweat shirts, jewerly, cat toys, post cards, calendars and 
    more. I loved the the T-shirts, too many great ones to mention. 
    If you are ever in the area, it's a must. 
    
    Shaw 

    I was having a coversation with a guy that I've been sort of 
    seeing casually.  It had to do with why I have eight cats and
    how hard it can be to care for them when unexpected vet bills
    arise, etc.  I mentioned that I took them on for life not for
    convenience.  He replied that he thought long and hard before
    getting a dog, knowing that this was a lifelong committment he
    was about to make (he adopted a dog that didn't quite pass the
    program to be a working dog assisting handicapped people).
    
    It is so rare for me to actually meet/date people around here 
    that have the same feeling about animals as I do.   I keep meeting
    guys who like cats okay but can't handle the idea that I have 8
    (actually 4 concerns them), are very allergic and not willing to 
    take lots of drugs (why not, I do :^) or think cats are just 
    animals and what's the big fuss all about (horrors!!) 
    
    Hmmm, I think the new guy is a keeper. :^)
    
    Jan
    Jan

    A woman I know, currently single, says that the biggest mistake she
    ever made in her life was giving up her cat for a guy.  Any new
    guy will have to love her cats as well as her.
    
    Carl

	My fiance said he didn't like cats when I met him.  Of course I would
never give up my cats for anyone, so he had to adapt.  Now he's constantly
playing with them when he's home, even helps me by changing the litterbox
occasionally!!

	Good luck with this guy, Jan...sounds great!!

Laura

    Hey Jan,
    
    It can happen!  My husband is a wonderful animal lover.  He's developed 
    a big soft spot for Nippa, and he really is not a kitty person.  
    I love hearing him call her in at nite...it's so cute (but don't tell
    him I said that!).
    
    Our family is growing in leaps and bounds.....
    
    Michele

    re: .276
    
    There used to be a shop like this in the UK called the Cat Shop. I
    don't know if it's still there. It's in Windsor and I think they had a
    branch in another town - might be Oxford.
    I also found a shop in Exeter, Devon, a few years ago, in one of the
    arcades. I spent all afternoon in there. They're great, aren't they?
    

    
    On the news today, there was a clip about a Concord pet store (I think
    it was MA rather than NH, since the channel was a Boston station)
    has announced that they had sold a RABID kitty. So they are now 
    coutioning anyone that had been to that store last month, and 
    has handled the kitty, or has taken it home. (wouldn't this be on
    their records?). Has anyone heard more detail on this. 
    
    Shaw

    I heard it was Concord NH.  What a shame.  I hope this pet store
    looks into why they let such a tragedy happen.

    
    
    	Exactly why I would never buy a pet from a pet store
    	(among other reasons)
    
    	sigh....
    

    Okay...am I crazy!! (don't answer that!!)   I read a note this
    morning from a noter who was asking advise on if she should get
    another cat and of course I want to respond.   Where did the note 
    go???
    
    Sandy

    It went to the topic called "Advice on Adding a Cat to the Household".
    Can't remember the note number but if you do a SHOW KEY/FULL *ADD*
    it should come up.
    
    Jan
    Moderator, FELINE

    At the Reveler's Cat show this past weekend I picked up a flyer from
    the San Francisco SPCA.  I thought it was worth sharing with you.
    Please understand that I am not making a judgement on anyone with
    outdoor cats.  Just wanted to pass on this flyer because I thought 
    it was a good one.
    
    
    
    			WHAT AN INDOOR CAT MISSES...
    
    			    Being Hit By a Car
    
    			       Being Stolen
    
    			       Getting Lost
    
    	   Fights With Other Cats, Dogs, Skunks or Raccoons
    
    	  	          Fleas, Worms, & Ticks
    
    		 Exposure to Diseases From Other Cats
    
    		     Possible Neighbor Complaints
    
    	       	 Getting Collar Caught Up On Something
    
    		Cruel People Mistreating & Abusing Them
    
    		    Rain, Wind & Cold Temperatures
    
    			      Animal Traps
    
    			  Accidental Poisoning
    
    			  Fear and Loneliness

    
    
    	Good One....

    Boy, that was a long list!  Glad you put it in here!
    thanks,
    Karen
    ps. say hi to Jo for me!

    I'm so excited!!!  After 8 months of having 8 cats in my tiny 
    apartment, I finally have a couple of potential kitty daddies 
    available (shhh, don't tell anyone...I don't want to jinx it :^)
    
    Joey may be going to live with the very interesting new man in
    my life.  I think he'll be a great kitty daddy.  He's really 
    considering it.  He dug out his former cat's litter box and 
    supplies to be sure he still had them.  I'm hoping to convince
    him to actually take 2 cats so Joey won't go from being 1 of 8
    to all alone but I'll be happy even if he doesn't take two.
    He's wanting to try a trial visit for a few days to see how 
    Joey does on his own.
    
    Dolly is the other kitty babe with a potential new home.  My 
    sister has insisted that the vet leave my cat ads up since she
    knew I still had them all.  Thank goodness she did because one
    of their customers contacted me yesterday.  He has a 5-6 year
    old cat of exact opposite coloring that he's looking for a companion
    for.  Personality requirements are right up Dolly's alley.  I'm 
    hoping this works out.  He's coming over to meet Dolly on Saturday.
    
    It's going to be really difficult to let them go but these sound
    like great new homes and I think they'll be very happy in them.
    
    Jan  
    

    GREAT NEWS JAN....
    
    One of my last rescues, Rocky, went to his new home on Sunday.  The
    bad news is...my heart is broken.  But the great news is...he will
    be living with my niece and he walked in her house as if he owned
    it.   He had no adjustment period, he's purring away, slept on their
    bed, and is very content.
    
    It's Ernie and I that are having such a dam hard time.
    
    Sandy
    

    re: .291
    
    I know.  This is going to be so difficult.  It's going to be so
    strange sitting in front of the computer at home without Joey on
    my lap or chirruping nearby.  Mike assures me he'll provide a nice 
    lap for Joey at his house though.  And, he made sure to tell me that 
    if we don't work out as a relationship that a friendship will always 
    be there and I'll still have access to Joey updates, etc.
    
    Hopefully I'll have update privileges (through my sister's vet at
    least) with Dolly too.  It's always good to know how they're getting
    along in their new homes.
    
    Both potential owners will be made aware that I'd take these 2 back
    in a heartbeat if they were ever unable to keep them for any reason.
    
    At least Dolly's potential dad doesn't think I'm weird to have so many
    cats and do so many rescues.  He says his girlfriend has 13 and she
    came by them in a similar manner.  I'm wondering why she didn't provide
    him with a cat and I'd like to think that it's because he fell in love
    with Dolly's picture and wanted her, and her alone.  He did say that he 
    was quite pleased with the level of detail I provided on her health and
    personality.
    
    Jan
                      

    
     I am not sure if we have a cure for this but here goes. Our condo is
     on the ground level, therefore all the windows in all rooms are too.
    The cats love sitting by the window and look outside at the birds and
    the flowers and chipmunks and all.  In the evenings however, there is 
    this nasty tom cat, that comes and jumps at the window. There is not a 
    whole lot we can do but to close the window, and let the shades down
    but the cats can still get behind the shades and look out. Well
    whenever there is such attack and tomba our huge Maine Coon boy is 
    sitting by the window, he just totally freaks out he just goes wild, 
    our little Maine Coon girl at the sound of the first growling goes and
    hides , but Ziba, our other girl which is pretty brave comes to check 
    things out. That usually when Tomba just attacks her and if we are not
    there he just beats on her bad. We usually jump to the rescue but
    we can't always be home. Anyhow, Saturday night this happened. By the 
    time I got to the front room, Ziba was screaming in pain, her hair was
    all over the floor from the living room all the way down the hall. 
    We separted them and a few minutes later both of them were on the bed
    within a foot of each other like nothing ever happened. Sunday 
    Ziba was real scares, she came out to eat and then disappeared . She 
    usually likes to go sleep in a closet or something so we didn't think 
    much of it. Yesterday morning, she didn't come out for her breakfast
    I just left her food on the counter, as the two Maine Coons don't like
    to jump high, and food will be safe up there for Ziba.  When I came 
    home from work, she hadn't touched her food. So I go looking for her. 
    When I eventually found her in one of her secret places, I tried to 
    pick her up and poor baby just screamed in pain. She was also panting 
    so bad, I had never seen her do that. Her tongue was hanging out and 
    she was panting like a dehydrated dog. Mind you we had the A/C on all 
    day so it couldn't be from hot weather. We rushed her to the vets. 
    Getting her out was and ordeal. When the vet examined her for any 
    soar areas, she was screaming in pain. But there were no surface wounds
    or cuts.  She told us that the cats teeth are so sharp that sometimes
    they just go in like a needle and don't leave any marks, she said the 
    worst case is she might have torn her tommy from inside? and the lump 
    is all her intestines and stuff under her skin. That sounds horrible. 
    They took her in the emergencie room right away and said that they 
    would preform a sergery on her last night, if her temp was not too
    high. I have not had much sleep last night. I am praying for the poor
    baby.  The other two already miss her. The vet tells me, when this
    happens, (being jumped at by an outside cat) Tomba gets so mad that 
    he just won't even recognize the other cats in the house, he just wants
    to get a cat to beat on to let his aggrevation out. I don't know 
    what we can do to stop this from ever happening again. Especially on
    the  nights that we are not home. Although we have a cat sitter, 
    she can't sit gaurd by the window all night. We love all our cats 
    but I don't want this to ever happen again. Seeing the pain my baby 
    was in yesterday, I can still hear her screams from the examination
    room. 
    
    Shaw  
    
    

This might not be a popular suggestion, but might it be possible to have the 
outside tom cat taken to the pound?  If the cat is owned, you and the owner
might want to have a chat.  If the cat is not owned, and you can get it to
the pound, it's no longer your problem.

Another solution might be to get a stuffed cat for your male to beat on.
Place it convienently near the window, perhaps?  A Garfield on four legs
might work.  It fooled -my- cat when she was a kitten...  <grin>  And for
a cat to beat on a Garfield doll sounds like justice, to me.  I'm dead
serious.

It sounds like you and your cats are having a bad time, and I hope we can
help you solve the situation.

    
    Unfortunately, there are many stray cats in the area. We live on the 
    seacost and there are cats everywhere. Ours are indoor only. 
    On quite a few occassions we have succeeded to capture some of the 
    strays, sometimes the more friendly ones have a better chance. 
    We bring the captured cats to the vet. The ones that pass a good 
    bill of health, are kept (upstairs from the vet) is the merimack river
    feline rescue society) and placed in homes, no matter how long it might
    take. What has discouraged us lately from continueing with these
    efferts, many of the male cats, tested positive for Feline Aids. The
    animal hospital, puts down the ones with aids.;-(
    As for the stuffed kitty, anything is worth a try, but I seriously 
    doubt that we can fool Tomba with it. 
    The good news is I called the vets and although I did not get any 
    details, Ziba is ready to go home. I can hardly wait for this
    afternoon.
    
    Shaw

    Glad to hear Ziba is OK.  So sorry for your worries.
    Is it a particular window or particular time of day when this cat
    causes such a reaction in Tomba?  Most of the toms in my neighborhood
    come out in early evening, and I'm wondering if you could restrict
    access to that window (if it's a certain window) during that time of
    day.
    Sarah

    This whole issue of stray/neighboring cats loose is causing havoc
    in our house too.  Max pee'd on the carpet for the first time ever
    about a month ago.  He was checked and found to be fine.
    
    It turns out he did it (and another twice since then) in an attempt
    to "mark his territory" as best he could against the neighbors two
    new cats.  They are allowed outside, so they come and tease my two 
    who are indoor cats.  
    
    I told the neighbor not to let their young daughter or new puppy 
    (yep, they've got it all!!) in our yard because we've put down
    chemicals to discourage their cats...that is expensive and doesn't 
    work long term.  The neighbor has not 1)had either of these new
    kitties "fixed" so soon we'll be over-run, and 2)has not brought
    them inside for even a day.
    
    In the mean-time we are stuck with a cat ruining our carpets because
    he is doing what comes naturally to him ... trying to mark his
    territory, and ignorant, inconsiderate neighbors.  Short of scooping
    up their cats and taking them to the shelter, what can we do?
    
    Sue  

    
    Thanks Sarah, 
    
    We have sliding door/windowns in all rooms, The condo is kinda L shape
    and all bedrooms, living room have these windows. The stray cat 
    attack, start early evening, between light and dark and have occured
    any time during the night. Other than painting all windows black, 
    or keeping Tomba in a cage, I don't know what else to do. 
    The vet said that Tomba's reaction was pretty normal and to be expected
    upon such attacks. The stray cat jumps at him with such power that 
    we are concerned that he might break through the screen one of these
    days. I have been ready with a spray bottle on some occassions but
    you know when you are woken up in the middle of the night it takes a 
    couple of minutes to realize what is going on. That's basically all the
    time it takes for Tomba to be rolling in the dust so to speek with
    Ziba.  The vet said that she is suprized that Tomba hasn't turned on
    us in these occassions. But he has never, and when I'm there a 
    loud yell from me usually gets his attention. 
    
    Shaw

    My understanding is that outside cats show that kind of aggression
    when they aren't neutered.  And that some method of getting them
    neutered (talk to neighbors, other...) would help.
                                                             

    Shaw,  we had the same problem a few years ago with this feisty old,
    scarred up gray tom cat.  He would jump at the windows in the kitchen
    and if there happened to be one of my 10 sleeping happily on the ledge
    at the time, it was not pretty.  My cats are indoor only too. What we 
    finally ended up doing is placing 2 hoops of wire fence up against the
    windows.  I know it sounds odd, but it really worked, there was no way
    he could get near the windows.  The fencing is pretty much invisible,
    so it wasn't going to disturb anyone.  If something like that would
    work for your window, you could consider it.  I have plenty of hoops
    kicking around as I use them over my plants and stuff, so if you would
    like to borrow some,  I'm in Haverhill, only about 10 minutes away.
    Squirting won't work because you can't be there consistently enough
    for him to get the message.  A barrier worked well for us.
    
    

Why do I get this picture of razor wire outside of a window?

"Leap at -my- window, will he?"

    :-2, 
    
    Thanks for the idea, I would need to talk to the Office first to see 
    if we can do such a thing, since the condo association might consider 
    it not too estatic ;-) 
    As for the good news, we brought Ziba home last night, poor baby was
    so happy to see us at the vets. You before we adopted her, at the 
    age of 2, she had already been in and out of homes and shelters three 
    times. It took us over a year to ensure her that this was realy her 
    home , she seemed like she didn't want to get too emotionaly attached
    just incase she gets dumped again. Anyhow she has one whole side of her 
    shaved, poor baby. The vet told us that when we bring her home, because
    of the vet smell and antibiotics she's on, keep her in the cage and 
    let the other cats smell her first and know that its her and not an
    intruder. Well, Tomba came over and gave her kisses. I could swear he 
    knows he was a bad boy and caused all this.  He has been following her
    around and smelling her, and Ziba just looks at him. Usually she would
    hiss, if Tomba got too close.  The little girl is more of a coward ;-)
    Keesha will aproach Ziba from behind, quietly try to smell her and 
    at the slightest sound or if she turns around, zooom , Keesha's gone 
    I don't think she is hundred precent sure this is her old friend. 
    
    Shaw

    
    . 301  ---no the fencing is 100% harmless, its just a barrier. it is
    quite hard to describe without seeing it, but don't worry, no one gets
    hurt.....

I wasn't sure where to put this, but this thread seemed to be as good a place 
as any.

The picture on today's kitty calendar is of a red and white striped short hair
cuddled between two fluffed up bed pillows holding a teddy bear.  The caption
is a quote from an ad in a late 19th-century Berlin newspaper:

"Wanted, by a lady of rank, for adequate remuneration, a few well-behaved 
and respectably dressed children, to amuse a cat in delicate health two or 
three hours a day."

My kitties would approve!

				SQ

    Just thought I'd point out that this month's Cat Fancy magazine has
    a whole bunch of really good information in it.  If you don't 
    subscribe, it's worth picking up this issue.  For example; there's
    a listing of cat organizations by state in this issue.  There are
    also several really good articles but the titles escape me at the 
    moment and I don't have the issue with me here at work.
    
    Jan

    Has anyone seen the new Charmin double roll toilet paper commercial?
    
    I was rolling on the floor laughing at this one.
    
    They have two sections on the TV screen each with a kitty unrolling a
    roll of toilet paper.  They give the cats names but I've forgotten
    them already.
    
    The cat on the left is using xxx brand toilet paper.  The cat on the
    right is using new Charmin double roll.  When the kitty on the left 
    runs out, that's it.  But the kitty on the right has Charmin double
    roll and can continue on for much longer.  And, it's so soft (they
    show both cats laying down for a nap on the pile made by the kitty 
    on the right.
    
    It was soooooo cute!!
    
    Jan 
                                     

    Amazingly, last night I was in the kitchen and heard a cat cry
    so I ran in the living room to see what happened.  I took a quick
    look around the room and saw a bunch of cats sleeping peacefully.
    I then realized the cry I heard came from the TV and I caught
    the end of this commercial.   It looked like a real cute 
    commercial...so now I can't wait to see the entire thing.   When
    I saw cats on the TV...I was surprised it was a toilet paper 
    commercial.  
    
    Sandy

    Have you seen the German one (milk/chocolate commercial) with the
    cat mooing like a cow?

    Re:  .307
    
    I saw it again last night.  It's still funny.  I can relate since
    I have at least one cat that does this.  The cats names are Muffin 
    (who has the short roll) and Boomer (who has the double roll).  
    Muffin is an American Shorthair classic tabby-type and Boomer looks 
    like a Somali.  I'm getting a big kick out of this commercial.
    
    Jan

    Saw it last night too, got a kick out of it.  I have had probably 10
    cats over a 20 year period and none of them ever did this activity.
    I see from this file my furry friends must be the exception.  Had to
    howl when Muffin (when finished making her mess) turns around, walks
    over to Boomer, lifts a paw to Boomer's tummy, "Hey, you got a bigger
    roll than me"   Wonder if Boomer got paid more for the extra work?
    Real cute that the end is a shot of both cats sleeping on Boomer's
    larger & probably Softer pile on the floor.  
    Does everyone's sleep on the mess they've made? or just leave it for
    you to "discover"?  

    
    
    	Harumph.  And I thought I"ve been watching too much TV
    	lately - but I haven't seen this commercial yet!
    

    Re:  .310
    
    If mine sleep on their pile they don't let me see it.  That way I'd
    know who was the guilty party.  They just leave it all over the floor.
    I think once it's unrolled they play around it in too because if I
    attempt to reroll it I find bunches of little holes in it.
    
    Jan

	Kitty calendar today (8/11/95) has a picture of a kitten playing with
the shoelaces on his owners tennies and the quote is:

"Of all the toys available, none is better designed than the owner himself...
its parts can be made to move in almost any direction.  It comes completely 
assembled and it makes a sound when you jump on it."

Yup, that's us!

			SQ

    
    
    In the news this morning, again there was a segment on the presence of
    cayote in the NE area. They again cutioned pet owners that they 
    pray on small pets, cats and dogs.  If you have and indoor/outdoor 
    pet and live near woodsy area, please be aware of this, night time 
    and early morning is when they are out. 
    
    Shaw

    At Green Meadow in Hudson they have a note posted regarding the
    coyotes (ie don't feed them or touch them).  We're playing the 
    north front nine tonight, which is the area they tend to hang out
    in, so I'll be curious if we see them.
    
    I wonder if they are coyotes or coy dogs?  I've heard that people
    commonly mistake coy dogs (smaller) for coyotes (larger).  I don't
    know if I could tell the difference...
    

    
     Green Meadow in Hudson ?? is that MA or NH?  I live in Hudson. MA -
    I never heard of Green Medow (golf course) ???  
    
    We saw a cotye last week in Berlin, MA -- luckily the horses didn't see
    it :-)
    
    lkp

    They've been seen in Hudson New Hampshire.  I spoke w/the starter on
    Tuesday and asked if they are coyotes or coy dogs - he said that they
    are coy dogs (there are 4 total).
    
    Unfortunately, a golfer looking for a stray ball, came upon one
    sleeping and startled it.  He got bit.  Not knowing whether it was
    rabid, Fish and Game came in, found and shot 2 of them and had them 
    tested for rabies.  The results came back negative so the other 2 
    have been luckily been spared (and the person who was bitten can 
    have peace of mind).  

    What's a coy dog?
    Sarah

    A coy dog (supposedly) looks very similar to a coyote, but is smaller 
    (but slightly larger than a fox).  I've never seen either myself, 
    although I've often heard coy dogs/coyotes howling (I grew up near
    the Quabbin).  
    
    From what I understand, coy dogs are commonly mistaken for coyotes. 
    I asked the starter at Green Meadow specifically whether the animals
    seen/shot were coy dogs or coyotes and he said definitely coy dogs.
    
    Sharon
    

    Funny we got on the topic of coy dogs...
    
    My mother called me yesterday morning to tell me that as she pulled
    into her driveway, a small gray "fox-like" animal was over by the 
    house.  When she drove in it ran in front of the car and down into
    the woods.  She described it as being the size of a fox, all gray,
    bushy/full tail, and mangy looking.  
    
    Cowering against the house (right where the critter was) was Nutmeg,
    their little calico cat.  Luckily she was spared...   Out of their 
    4 cats, she is the only one who *WILL NOT* allow herself to be kept 
    inside.  She's now allowed outside during the day while under supervision.
    
    Probably a coy dog.  She'll be visiting the library later this week
    to read up on them...
    
    BTW - this was on the Athol/Petersham Mass border. 

    
    Saturday I was out enjoying the sun and buffing the car when this 
    beatiful all black short haird cat with huge golden eyes, but 
    very skinny, obviously underfed cat came meowing. He seemed so 
    very freindly and did not shy away when I reached down to pet him. 
    So I went in and brought out some Sheba, he ate every bit even the 
    tiniest little dots spilled on the ground , it was as if he thought
    this might be his last meal for a while. Then I got him some water
    and he drank like he hadn't any water for some time. I guess will all
    this dry weather we've been having there are no more poddles anywhere
    for the poor strays. This cat was so friendly and beautiful with 
    a shiny coat. I would have brought him home, except first I don't
    want to expose our three indoor kitties to an outdoor cat without
    having him tested first. Plus I don't know how our Tomba would have 
    reacted to another mail cat from outside. He is regulary horrased
    by male cats on the other side of the screen and they way he growls 
    sometimes I don't want him to take revenge on this little guy. So 
    plans were to take him to the vet Monday and then find him a home. As
    the some neighbors said that he had been hanging around our area for 
    the past few days. Sundy early morning I am on my way for a jog and
    the little blak cat is out there to greet me. He came up to be and 
    touched me with his paw and meowed. So I go back in the house to 
    get him some cat food. When came back, I couldn't find him at first
    so as I'm calling here kitty kitty. This guy has him in his arms 
    and loving him and he apologized for picking my kitty up. 
    I told him that the cat was homeless and he couldn't believe such 
    a pretty cat was on his own. Anyways the guy is visiting his girlfriend
    there and in the car he had a young boarder collie pup. He 
    brings the pup out but is restricting him so he wouldn't disturb 
    the kitty eating. The cat did not seem to be bothered by the dogs 
    presense at all. After he finished eating he just started walking 
    cutiously towards the dog. Well we are all sorta alert now, incase 
    one or both animals freak out or something. But he just went over to 
    the dog and they smelled each other and he (the cat) just lay himself
    down next to the pupy. Well the owner of the dog just went nuts over 
    this cats calm and loving temper. We lenght him a cat carrie, and 
    before you know it the kitty was going along on a ride with the pupy
    to his new home ;-) I had tears in my eyes as they drove off. 
    The new owner promissed to get him to the vet on Tuesday. 
    
    Shaw
    

    Yeah!!!!  But, just in case he was lost, I would call
    the local shelter and ask if a cat fitting that description
    has been reported missing.
    

    What a heart warming story...now if only a person came along
    everytime a cat showed up at my doorstep...I'd be all set!!!
    
    Sandy

    
    re: Karen's concern,  We (me and my SO) both do volunteer work for 
       our local shelter, so we will definately keep are eyes open for 
       that. 
       The kitty did not have a color, and if it did have an owner it had 
       been left to roam for a few days. Unless it was a lost kitty. I
       agree that if indeed lost, the original owner deserves a second 
       chance. 
    
    Shaw
    

  I would guess that a kitty with such a sweet disposition came from a loving 
home and is lost.  Without a collar, it would be harder to find the original 
owner though.  It's great to hear about such a happy ending, especially with 
puppy and kitty bonding so fast.

  I have a similar story from Sharon Wills (remember the lady who donates all
her time and money to taking care of stray kitties in the Bay Area).  Someone 
called her from one of the buildings at work about a new kitty that recently 
turned up.  Sharon went down to try to feed it (it was skin and bones) and 
the kitty came fairly close to her.  She noticed it had a collar so she tried 
to coax it with food.  She was able to get the name and number from the collar
and called the owner.  She asked the owner if they had a cat named Ivory.  
The owner said they did until a month ago when she disappeared.  It was around 
the time that they were having work done on the house and had lots of 
contractors around.  They thought maybe one of the contractors had stolen her.
Sharon and I both suspect that she went to sleep in one of the trucks and 
woke up too late.

  To make a long story short, Ivory's mom came right up to get her.  Sharon 
said she cried when she watched the owner hugging Ivory.  Sharon doesn't get
many happy endings so this is a special one for her.

  BTW, she said a lot of good things came out of the article in the newspaper 
so if you did anything for her, thank you.

			SQ

    Great story - stories. But, as you mentioned, the cat was black. So it
    *had* a color. (re. 324!)
    
    :)
    
    Just teasing...
    
    Nat                      

Re .321:

And that's as it should be.  I wish things worked out like this more often!

    
    
    Did anyone else watch channel 7 news this morning? They had a piece on
    this man, from L.A. Scott something that is a cat trainer. He owns
    the white persion in the fancyfeast commercial and the StarWars cat
    and the two in T.P commercial unrolling the paper. The showed the 
    cats doing some great tricks, the white cat would lift up his right 
    paw and touch the crystal bowl and he'd just tell him no your left 
    paw and the cat would bring up the other paw, he had him rolling 
    on this table until he fell off.  His favourite (and mine) as far as 
    learning tricks and the fiestiest seemed to be the gray short hair
    in the T.P. commercial. Ooh I wish I had that cat ;-)
    
    Shaw

    If you go to any CFA/Friskies sponsored show, you can
    see them in person doing their tricks.
    

    
    
    I would appreciate it, if there are any shows in the near feature, 
    before ThanksGiving weekend. Since after that I will be at the 
    mountains everyweekend.  I have *never* had the opportunity to attend 
    a cat show and would realy love to go to one. 
    
    Shaw 

    
    
    Has anyone here done frequent travel with cats. I know mine (well two 
    of them) get kinda impatient and maybe car sick from just driving from 
    home to the vets. We spend every weekend and sometimes longer (like four
    days in a row) at our ski condo. Although we have a great cat sitter
    which lives in our building and she has cats of her own, visit the
    cats twice daily. We were wondering whether we should bring them up 
    for longer stays. ie, Thanksgiving , X-mas etc. which we would spend 
    four or more days up there.  The drive is a bit under 2 hours but 
    it is up and down windy mountain road.
    Aside from that my Keesha now two years old, grew up in our current 
    resident and has never been outdoors. She doesn't even like it in our
    arms in the backyard or at vets. I 'm not certain what will be best
    for them. Having them stay home, with the baby sitter visits, or tag
    along with us and go through the drive.
    
    Any comments/experiences?
    
    Shaw

    I think it is different for each cat?
    
    I used to travel often on the weekends--and when I was going to
    be gone more than two nights I brought my two kitties with me.
    
    Moxie, the little one, loved the car (or at least didn't mind it).
    After an initial search, she just settled on my lap and rode the
    rest of the way purring.
    
    Mandy, who is 3, HATES the car.  I put her in the carrier, and spoke
    to her often--while she alternated between yelling and sleeping.
    
    The one common thing I found, though, was that after the car ride--
    they both LOVED being in the new place.  They would explore and hang
    out and still get to sleep with me at night.  So I guess it would
    depend on the trip?
    
    I wouldn't bring mine every time I go away for the weekend, because
    I feel they would be more comfortable at home--but for long periods
    I found that mine like to be with me, and it outweighs the hassle of
    the car trip.
    
    Hope this helped!  I really didn't give much of an answer..  :^)
    
    Alicia

    Mine don't mind the car rides at all.  Sapphire will get car sick so I
    hold on my lap to let her look out the window.  She hasn't been car
    sick in three years.  
    
    They do however not like to go on boat rides, while the boat is in
    motion they cry all the time.  Once the engine is sut off they are just
    fine they consider it their second home.
    
    Dennis 

    Hello everyone. I'm new to this conference and I'm quite amazed at how
    crazy everyone is about our feline friends. They are special though.
    
    I have two cats back home in England (at the moment I am working for
    one year as part of my University course. I am posted in Bern,
    Switzerland). Anyway, one is totally white and called Minty (he's my
    favourite) and the other is black and white and called Candy.
    Continuing on the topic of travel though, Minty can be a real devil
    when he gets in the car.  Once the neighbours left their car window
    open, it was a lovely hot day, so as is usual for cats, Minty found his
    place in the sun sat on their back seat.  Eventually the neighbours
    drove off somewhere oblivious to the fact that Minty was sunning himself
    in the back. Oblivious that is until Minty jumped onto the neighbours
    shoulder as she was driving. He was not a popular cat. As you can
    imagine it was a great shock for her to be happily driving along and
    then to suddenly have something pounce out at her. It could have been quite
    dangerous too.  Luckily everyone was fine, so I found it all very
    amusing.  The neighbour was not very pleased though. She is not fond of
    cats anyway. 
    			Ruth

    
    Well today is the big day. Our regular cat sitter won't be around 
    and we have decided to take the cats with us! We have a little 
    under 2 hours drive. None of the three are realy that car crazy. 
    the 15 minute ride to the vet is sometime a bit too stressful for them.
    Keesha the youngest just totally freaks anywhere but outside of the
    house, and Tomba the mighty Maine Coon becomes a real pussy cat in 
    the car ;-) So we carriers for the two of them. Ziba the 4 year old 
    female however, prefers to roam around in the car and not be caged. 
    I don't know how Keesha will react in the studio up north. I don't
    know if she will adjust for the few days or be hiding under the bed 
    the hole time.  We can only wish for the best! We are bringing their
    cat beds, some of their favourite toys, catnip, and Tomba is 
    getting his own lobster and the other two shrimp for the first night 
    up there! Thanksgiving day, the cats will have their own share of 
    Turkey. So I hope atleast with food, we can keep them happy up there. 
    Our studio is in the heart of town, So they can sit by the window 
    and watch all the activity in town while we go skiing. 
    
    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
    
    Shaw

    Just wanted to comment on how much I've been enjoying the new
    Sheba commericals.  I love them!
    
    A cat has many jobs...
    
    	A babysitter
    	A bookend
    	A masseuse
    	A tranquilizer
    	
    Has anyone else seen these and enjoyed them as much as I do?  They're
    so true.
    
    Jan
       

    Yes, yes!  I love the new Sheba commercials...especially the masseuse
    part...my Ebony does that all the time.  Now if I could just teach her
    to go up and left and down and a little to the right....
    

    Yes I think they're great.  Now if I could just get them to come out
    with a diet food.
    
    Dennis

    
    
    	Love the commercials.  I just love the black and white kitty
    	looking very contented as a 'bookend'.  =)
    

    don't remember if I talked about this commercial here or not.. if this
    is a repeat - sorry - the brain just isn't with it sometimes!
    
    There's a commercial for Jonny Cat litter that provides a human vs cat
    perspective:
    
    	What a human sees:      fishbowl
    	What a cat sees:	dinner on fancy serving dish
    
    	human:	red satin curtains
    	cat:	red satin ladder
    	
    	human:	child on tricycle
    	cat:	steamroller
    
    	human: 	kitty box with jonny cat
    	cat: 	sumptuious bathroom 
    
    	human: 	box of catnip
    	cat:	swirls of color and gyrating images
    
    It's done pretty well...
    	

    
    Oh, how cute.  I haven't seen that!
    
    

    Just checking to see if anyone is out there.  I'm a little concerned
    that we're working on day 2 without any entries in the notesfile.
    I just want to be sure that the file is accessible to everyone.  So,
    post something here to let me know.  If I don't see anything from 
    anyone I'll go beat on the system manager (hmmm, maybe I'll go do
    that anyway, just for fun.:^)
    
    Jan

    
    I was awakened sometime in the middle of the night by a cat pressing my
    nose repeatedly with her paw.
    
    Gotta love the little buggers 8^).
    

    Great!  You guys are out there.  I was beginning to worry about
    you.  That and my system guys have been playing with the system
    lately.
    
    Jan

    Hi Jan,
    
    I'm out here too, though usually read-only, Hello to the whole FELINE
    community!
    
    Feline Friendly,
    
    Sue & Princess Panther Jane, Spots, and CinnyMan

  Hi Jan, I assumed things were just quiet after the "troller" note.  I know 
I kind of resented having an intruder disrupt one of the nicest notes 
conferences that we have.

  BTW, my kitties were bouncing off the walls all evening last night.  Maybe 
an earthquake's coming!

				SQ

    
    I read an article soon after the San Francisco earthquake in 1989 that
    implied that just before an earthquake, cats & dogs go missing at a
    greater rate, and therefore anyone who wants to be prepared for an
    earthquake should check the lost & found listing in the newspaper on a
    daily basis, and watch for an increase.
    
    Interesting. 
    

    I'm here...just buried in CATS!!  Whew..it has been a tough
    winter with many new strays!! (sigh)
    
    Sandy

    Nat

    Hi Jan,
    
    I'm here too.
    
    Sandi and the Notorious Seven

Me too....just quickly reading mostly...

Laura

    It's so nice to see everyone is still around.  Guess it was just
    a case of timing that everyone got so quiet right after they made
    hardware changes to MISERY.
    
    Jan

    I'm here--I'm back from Disney World (Mass. school vacation).  Maybe
    the "Presidents' Week" vacation accounts for some of the silence.
    
    I was wondering whether Skrufy and Veto would punish us for having been
    gone for 8 days, but they're thrilled to see us and have been DEMANDING
    about 300% of the usual "lap time" and doing delighted "ear stands" (as
    my mother calls it; I call it "going chin-up") whenever we enter a room!
    
    Leslie

    I'm here at work frantically trying to keep up with the pace
    and the stress.  I'm rifling through my tote bag trying to
    find the part numbers off some cables I promised a coworker
    when what do I come across but the long haired cats' grooming
    comb...here...in my bag...at work.  It gave me a chuckle and 
    did the brain good to take that little pause.  See, they're 
    always helping me even when they can't be around in person.
    
    Jan

    That's one thing I missed the months without a pet in the house.
    
    You always want to get mad at something they did, then they do
    something nice.
    
    
    How can you get mad at them?
    
    Right now, Bits seams to be tearing apart the basement and Syd is down
    there saying, (in a very nice voice,) what are you up to now?
    Bits will walk up the stairs, sit down, take a bath and look as if he
    had never left the room and wonder why are we so worried.
    
    
    joan

Reminds me of an old Calvin & Hobbes punchline:
"How can you stay mad at someone who misses you when you're asleep?"

	MKV

    Ack!  I hate it when you're driving down the freeway by the airport
    just as a humongo plain takes off over you.  Sheesh, talk about
    rattling brains...
    
    Jan

    
    We have these friends that we visit often, as they have adopted two
    cats from the shelter were my girl friend and I do volunteer work. 
    They also have a bunch of ferral cats that get fed outside, they have a 
    huge yard and a couple of dog houses that these cats crash at, and they 
    leave the basement door slightly open were in the winter time all the 
    cats shelter. Some of these cats have already been cut and spayed
    nuetured and some we have not been successful with. Out of all the cats
    there is this beautiful little calico cat, we call Ms Patches that I 
    love but none of us had ever been successful in getting close to. She 
    keeps a distance and comes to eat when noone is around. 
    Anyways we were lazing out by the pool Sunday as we heard this eearrie 
    hawling coming from the woods. It sounded like a dog in distress. It 
    sounded like nothing I've heard before. Being the animal lovers that we 
    are Rose and I ran into the woods, to see what's up needless to say 
    I am bear foot and we are both in swim suits. We had to go deep into
    the woods. To my surprise we found not one but two dogs. A beagle and 
    a larger houd dog, with log ears and a broken chain hanging off of him.
    His mouth was all foamed and he looked pretty scary. They were barking 
    up a tree. I look and there is Ms. Patches on a branch way up. 
    Well the first thing that came to mind is to try and get the dogs 
    under control but they just ran off. By now I realize that we've been
    running through patches of poison ivy and there are a gazillion 
    musquitos feeding off of us.  Well I climbed the tree and 
    eventually got a hold of Ms. Patches. She was so stiff she felt like 
    a statue or a stuffed animal. I had to pull her off the branch as 
    her nails were dog in pretty good. Now  she is on my shoulder 
    her nails are deep into my skin. and all I am thinking about is 
    hey I finally got to touch her ;-) I just say her 'cause she is so 
    tiny and looks like female, but we don't know yet. Anyways she did 
    not resist after that. This must have been her first human contact.
    I carried her on my shoulder all they back through the woods and 
    brought her in yard, she hung out in the yard and would let me 
    go back near her and pat her but ran away from everyone else. I thought
    she had gone through enough truma at that point to want to put her in 
    a cage and bring her to the vet for a checkup and shots and spaying. 
    Maybe in a few days. It was such a thrill though to finaly over an 
    incednt like this to get close to her. Through out the afternoon we 
    herd the dogs yalling from a distance in the woods still. Called the 
    local police station to see if they could help us get a hold of the 
    dog officer. They were not that enthused and said they will do
    something about it if and when some one calls re missing dogs. And 
    said most likely after the dogs have had their fun they will find there 
    way home, huh!
    Monday morning I had the effects of poison ivy all over my feet. I also 
    had hundreds of musquito bites all over me but I can't complain as 
    poor Rose has a severe case of poison ivy, bad enough the she couldn't 
    go to work and our friends had to take her in for an emergency room 
    visit. But it was all worth gaining Ms. Patches trust and friendship.
    In the next few days I am going to go over in the afternoons and 
    buil enough trust with her that hopefully by next week I can bring in
    for the vet visit. 
    
    Shaw
    

    smile...don't you just love that first sign of trust.  So sorry
    to hear about the poison ivy and mosqueto bites...but knowing
    that you are an animal lover, I'm sure it was well worth it just
    to hold that little girl.    If she is a calico...it's a 99% 
    chance that it is a little girl.
    
    Sandy

There is this stuff that we have at home that if you know you came into
contact with poison ivy & wash your skin thoroughly with this stuff right
away, it will reduce or avoid altogether the effects of the poison ivy.
However, you need to use it immediately after contact with the plant.  If
you let a few hours lapse it will not be as effective.  Poison ivy has an
oil that clings to your skin and allows the compound (chemical?) that 
causes the rash & itching to permeate your skin.  This stuff is able to 
wash off the oils much better than soap & water.  I'll look up its name
when I get home for future reference for you.  We keep a bottle in our
medicine cabinent.

Leslie

PS. Hope Ms Patches is soon tamed & can be taken care of & given a home.

    
    Well I jumped in the pool right after and Rose didn't. I figured the 
    chlorine will help! then i was suggessted to apply vinegar to the
    effected areas, especially the musqito bites and that really help 
    stop the itching. 
    Right you are Sandy. I never thought I'd be able to make the connection
    with this little ferral girl so soon. It was worth every bite ;-)
    That's why we also think that she is a girl, apparently not too 
    many calico males, I wonder what the scientific explanation for that
    is. 
    
    Shaw

    Hi Shaw...
    
    We just did some research on genes for our Pat Brody Shelter
    TV show and what I found out was:
    
       The reason why most three color cats are female is because
       of the combination of genes.  Out of 3000 calico/torties
       only 1 of them will be male.  AND for every male calico/
       torties 2/3 of them will be sterile.   Interesting...
    
       Another interesting finding was most orange cats are males
       and it is VERY difficult to breed an orange cat without
       Tabby markings.   Most orange cats will have some stripes
       on the face, tail or legs.   Think about it...how many solid
       orange kitties do you see!!!  
    
       And...all cats have the Tabby gene...even your whitest cat!!
       It's impossible to get rid of the Tabby gene in any cat..but
       breeders are getting good at masking it.
    
    Back to the original topic..  
    
     Sandy

    It is called TechNU. It isn't real easy to find; call around first. It
    will help up till the time the blisters start weeping. They have just
    come out with a new product that you can spray on prior to having any
    contact with the poisen ivy; it acts like a sheild.
    
    I had may annual contact last month and while my doctor prescribed a
    hydrocortozone cream that never does much, she had me get some over the
    counter liquid benadryl to try before using prednosione. That, plus a
    new benadryl gel helped tremendously. (Every year we usually go thru
    this loop where she prescibes presonsone and this hyrdocortozone cream,
    and 3 days later when I'm worst, I get a refferal to a dermatologist. I
    had it pretty bad last month and the over the counter stuff really
    helped.)
    
    Deb (who should own stock in the company)

    
    Thanks, I guess we need to pick up some of that. As we do a lot of 
    gradening on weekends, and are expanding the lawn so we are going
    after the posion ivy with a weed wacker and I think the stuff just
    splashes around. 
    Thanks for the info. Sandy. We have a female Orange, well kind more 
    blond than orange cat. That is more like solid color with a white
    chest and belly. Holly has her picture, remember the Photo Album? ;-)
    Maybe that's why when we adopted Ziba (if you remeber the story in 
    here somewhere) they told us she was nuetured male. Then a couple of 
    months after much to our amazement, our nuetured male turned out to be 
    a female in heat ;-) So she is now a spayed female!
    
    Shaw

re .364

  Deb, Does the label on the bottle say whether it works for Poison Oak 
also?  I have a friend who lives in the Santa Cruz mountains who is always 
fighting Poison Oak rashes that she gets from petting the kitty.

				SQ

re .359

  Shaw, that's a great story.  We're still making gradual progress with our
stray/battered/terrified kitty.  After two years, she has finally started 
jumping up on my lap even when I don't have any food (she only started 
jumping up on my lap when I was eating a couple of months ago).  She doesn't 
stay long, but she does let me pet her a little.  It'll actually be two years 
on July 9th and I'm hoping she'll get to the point where she'll just sit 
down on my lap and relax in time for her anniversary.  There's something 
very precious about winning over the really tough cases and as much as I 
love the other furballs, this one is special.  Keep us posted on the progress 
with yours.

				SQ

    What a great story.  Note that "your new kitty" :-) may have
    poision ivy oil on her fur, so you could pick that up again when you
    touch her.  (Do cats react to poison ivy?)  It took my Little Bit a
    couple of years before he jumped into my lap, I just about fell
    over with surprise when he did.
    

    RE: 515.366
    
    yes, it works with poison ivy, oak and sumac.  I think that it is
    petrolum based, and it is VERY rough on the skin.
    
    While it helps tremendously, after washing with it twice, I still
    shower with lava soap (a pumice basee soap). And I IMMEDIATLY walk into
    the laundry room, put everything I am wearing in the washing machine
    (I keep a spare bathrobe in there) and wash that stuff by itself twice
    in hot water. This is before I touch anything (including the cats or sit
    down. After I get out of the shower, I wipe down with a wash cloth and
    water any cat that rubbed against me from the time I got in until the
    time I started the laundry.
    
    I ususally still wind up breaking out a little, but it is a lot less
    severe than what it could be.
    
    Deb

    
    Well there are mixed fillings about the future of Ms. Patches. 
    If I had the choice , my first atempt after her testing would be 
    to see the possiblity of integrating her into our household ;-)
    However, the two ladies that are carring for quite a few of these 
    ferral cats, where the incedent happened, strongly believe and I 
    sorta agree that Patches was born in that area, grew up there and 
    has a happy life there. There are four of five cats, which Patches 
    is amongst that hang out together. I am trying to convice these ladies
    to allow us to make an atempt to capture all and do the vet thing. 
    They do not think that is possible, they believe we should not 
    invertine too much with nature and their faith. and they strongly 
    believe that these cats are happy as is. Since they have sorvived 
    a few years with this life style. One of them is according to them 
    an older cat, and she seems very pregnant. The ladies claim that she
    has been pregnant many times, but she might be too old to have 
    healthy kittens and they have found a few dead kittens serveral times 
    in the bushes around their property. 
    I went back there yesterday after work. The food is left out for these
    cats upstairs on the deck. They come up and eat when noone is around. 
    But they allow the house cats to sit on the other side of the screen
    and watch their activity without any hissing. So here is the good news
    I saw Ms. Patches and two other orange tabbies come up. I waited 
    long enough at a distance inside the house for them to finish eating
    then they were lazing on the deck. I went over and from behind the
    screen chatted with them . All three ran downstairs, but stayed in
    the lawn. So I went out, down the stairs and sat down on the grass
    talking to them. Ms. Patches came near me a couple of times I reached 
    for her and she sort of back down, as if I was going to hit her in 
    the head or something. I finally reached under her chin and started 
    scratching , she let me. Then I slowly reached and picked her up
    put her on my shoulder, she was very stiff at first, then I feel her 
    unwind, and if you could listen real hard, there is this faint 
    purring ;-) so I had her for quite a while, we touched noses and all.
    I let her go after a while. I am going to try and do this for a while 
    before I put her in a cage, but my plans are to do that next week. 
    As is I think I will return her to this environment after the vet 
    visit. 
    
    Shaw
    

    If you can keep her yourself I guarantee you will have one of the
    most special cats you've ever had.  Reformed ferals can be some
    of the best kitty companions.  Once you've formed that bond there's 
    just nothing else like it.  
    
    Jan

    Shaw...
    
    Please try to talk sense into these people who are feeding
    the stray cats, but not getting them neutered/spayed.  Gosh...
    so many kittens are being born and even if they do die, it's
    just not fair to them nor the poor females who continue to
    have litters.  
    
    I see no problem if the cats continue to live out there life
    in that area as long as the people continue to feed them.  BUT...
    I do believe each and everyone one of them needs to be 
    spayed/neutered so they are not adding to the over population 
    problem. (especially since most of the kittens will be born feral)
    
    Keep working on them....
    
    Sandy 

  Shaw,

I agree with Jan -- your relationship with Ms Patches could be very special 
if you let it happen.  The little milestones are wonderful to watch as the 
ferrals begin to relax.  We know that our Tatoo is finally "allowed" to be 
a playful kitten in our house because she doesn't have to worry about food, 
parasites or predators.  Watching her roll on the floor and play with her 
catnip bag is a wonder.  Having her jump on my lap to steal food and accept 
the scolding without flinching or fear is a miracle.  Over time, her fur has
developed a beautiful gloss and she seems grateful every day for the roof 
over her head.  At least think about it some more before you decide.

I also agree with Sandy about getting the other ferrals to the vet for 
spay/neuter.  I don't understand the logic of the group that says the cats 
are doing fine, yet dead kittens turn up all the time.  It reminds me of the 
old good news/bad news joke -- the good news is, we cured the disease; the 
bad news is, the cure killed the patient.  I'm really surprised that any 
group that works with ferrals would take such a hard line.  The ones in the 
Bay Area try very hard to trap and spay/neuter the kitties and then return 
them to their habitat.

				SQ

    Isn't it great when you take in a feral, and in a week or
    two suddenly their fur condition improves 1000%?
    

    RE: .374
    
    Yep.  It's sooooo cool.  Torbie was a scrawny little waif with 
    funky looking fur and one big long sprig of fur stick off one
    side of her tail.  You should have seen what she looked like after
    she'd been in the house a while.  She had the most gorgeous, long,
    plush coat I've ever seen.  I sure with I could find her.  It's 
    been 9 months since the cat carrier door popped open on the way to
    the vet and she took off to explore.  I miss her so much I can't 
    even describe it.
    
    Re: Ms. Patches and her feral friends
    
    Check to see if there's a branch of National Pet Alliance in your
    area.  They have a program geared to feral cats.  It's called
    TTVAR (Trap, Test, Vaccinate, Alter and Release).
    
    Jan

    
    Thank you all for your recommendation. The reason the ferral cats 
    have not been spayed/nuetured is not due to the fact that these 
    wonderful elderly ladies that have been feeding them don't want them
    fixed. But that they have made a few attempts and have not been 
    successful at it. Rose and I will be working this issue. Our friends 
    are more than willing to found all the activities. My first goal is 
    Patches though. Next is the very pregnant orange cat. I realy don't 
    want to put her into any truma while she is pregnant, as I don't have
    any experience with that and do not want a good thing end up with 
    negative outcome.  As for adopting Ms. Patches, I don't know. Our 
    own three, indoor only cats as I've written before have been 
    harrassed by some strays jumping at our windows on many occassions
    so they  will not so easily accept an intruder. As for ferrals becoming
    civilized so to speak, our Tomba, the male maine coon cat, was on his
    own for around two years at Plum Island and he is the sweetest most 
    loving boy I've ever met. My other concern is my little girl Keesha. 
    We adopted her when she was a tiny little kitty, she sort of decided 
    that I am her daddy ;-) When I'm home she is never more than a few 
    inches away from me. No matter which room I'm in. She constantly wants
    to be carried on my shoulder like a human baby. (she is over two years
    old now). Every night or early morning like around 4:30 ish she comes
    over wakes me up and curls in with me, giving me kisses, washing my
    face with her sand paper tongue and... So being invovled in a shelter
    you now how many times, I've fallen in love with other kitties and 
    considered additions to the house, but the fact that this extra 
    attention to the new commer might break Keesha's heart, has stopped 
    me from doing so. With Patches, I just know that due to her trust for
    me, and how special she is, it might have a negative result on my 
    baby Keesha.  Plus the fact that aside from the lack of vet visits
    (which hopefully, we'll help change) all the stray that come over 
    to our friends house, are considered by them their babies. These 
    ladies our home most of the time, they have a few acres of land, a 
    wonder huge lawn, with many bushes for the cats to shelter from the 
    hot summer sun, two large dog houses that they crash at, a sundeck 
    that they chow on and laze around when there 's no poeple and in 
    winter time or cold nights the basement door is open so they go in 
    and stay warm, they even have a big litter box down there. So we 
    all feel that these guys already have a home and each other. The 
    main goal for Rose and me is to make sure they all get their vet 
    visits (won't be easy but we've done it before with many other strays)
    eventualy (and hopefully soon) they all get fixed. Other than that
    we will return all to this house. 
    
    Shaw

    Shaw...thanks for sharing the whole story.  It really sounds
    like these ladies love these kitties and want to do the right
    thing.
    
    With all my rescues (especailly ferals) I have learned 
    ONE thing:  When you are attempting to trap...the cats must
    be VERY hungry and even though it breaks your heart not to
    leave them food for a few days...you must get them very
    hungry or they will NOT use the trap.  A feral with a full
    belly...won't even go look at the trap.  Starving a cat for
    a few days was SO SO SO SO hard for me because I always
    felt I was letting them down, but now I just keep in my
    mind that they may be hungry for a few days, but once they
    are trapped, seek medical attention, and are let free once
    again they will be much healthier and happier in the long run.
    
    I bet it is VERY hard for these ladies to NOT feed the cats;
    especially when they are laying on the deck, staring up at the
    window with that pathetic look on their face as if to 
    say "Feed me"!!  It's tough to do...
    
    Sandy 

    
    Right you are Sandy. The onething that we haven't done is to starv 
    them first. These ladies are truely cat lovers, although they 
    have not been successful in capturing the cats for vet visits, their 
    heart is in the right place and have provided for them for years. 
    I had to come in late last night to fix some problems, so I didn't 
    have to go to work today. I went over for a visit. 
    Guess what, I called for Patches and she came from behind the bushes
    right over to me. This is like a miracle cure ;-) She had no real 
    human contact till her rescue from the dreaded hound dog.
    Today I picked her up, she purrs ever so quitely that you really need
    to put your ear against her body to hear her. 
    I walked around the building with her. We went and sat in my car 
    while I was holding her. Everything was fine until I closed the 
    car door. She totaly freaked, so I opened the door right away and 
    off she went, stayed there for a bit longer but she would not come 
    back. Oh well,  I can be too anxious.
    
    Shaw

    Ms Patches sounds like she wants love and does not want to
    be a feral living on her own...would these ladies consider
    keeping Patches as an indoor/outdoor kitty.  That would be
    the best for Patches.
    
    I had to laugh at your experience in the car because when I 
    first attempted to capture Capone..we got him cornered in 
    my house and the poor guy freaked out so much he almost
    went through the window to try and get out.  He was climbing
    curtains...attempting to climb walls etc.   BUT now...Mr
    Capone LOVES to sit on the couch...on the window sill...and
    barely wants to go out.  Love makes a big difference....
    
    Keep up the great work..and I'm sure you'll do the right 
    thing for these kitties.   
    
    Sandy 

    I've adopted a number of ferals. Some were relativly easy, some were
    not. I have to say, though, that the more difficult the cat was to
    capture, the move loving the cat turned out to be as a pet.
    
    Deb

    If you do take Patches or any of the other ferals in the cat to the
    vet, I'd advise having them in a carrying case.  You don't want a
    cat crawling up behind the dashboard into the engine or sitting
    under the brake pedal.
    

    Ms. Patches sounds ready to be taken into a loving home.  I hope
    someone considers taking her in instead of leaving her feral.  Now
    is the time to do it while she's still enjoying human contact.
    However, I second the note that said use a cat carrier if you put
    her in the car.  Not only could she be crawling all over the car
    and under the pedals but, she may decide to shred the driver in the
    process.
    
    If you decide to take her in try keeping her in a separate room for
    a while.  Your cats can smell her scent under the door and she can
    smell theirs.  Periodically swap places and have your cats in the
    room and her in the rest of the house.  I did this with several cats
    that I had to introduce to each other and when I finally opened the
    door to the room and they found each other...I had a minimum of 
    adjustment problems.  You must be willing to keep them separate for
    a while (at least 10 days).  And, I wouldn't let them mingle in any
    way until you have a clean bill of health on the new kitty.
    
    Jan

    
    Jan & Sandy and everyone, 
    
    Thanks for all the good advice. Yes, I will definately bring cats 
    in the cat carrier. The day I carried her to my car, I had no intention
    or driving off. Patches is still very skitish around anyone else and
    will just run away. If & when we do manage to introduce her to other 
    humans, the ladies that feed her will be the best to take her in. 
    Aside from all the strays that they feed, they have two other cats. 
    Micky and little bit. Mikcy is indoor/outdoor is an orange tabby with
    an orange mustach on a white muzzle, he looks like a french painter. 
    Little bit is a smaller version of Mickey, she is Micky's daughter
    yup, she even got the mustach ;-) even though she is spayed, she is 
    real afraid of humans. She spends most of her time in the attic, 
    the door is always left open, when everyone is in the living room 
    she comes downstairs and eats in the kitchen, she goes all the way 
    down to the basement for the litter box, but as soon as she sees 
    poeple she's off to the attic. 
    
    Shaw

  Shaw,

Thanks for filling in all the details.  The first account didn't sound like 
a very good situation for the kitties, but the more you tell us about the 
ladies who feed them the better it sounds.  I understand your reasons for 
not adding to your kitty population -- I waited ten years before adding to 
mine for the same reason.

Good luck getting Ms Patches to the vet.  It sounds like she's in good hands.

				SQ

    
    Heehaa, Ms. Patches is at the vets she went early afternoon yesterday.
    After some test preformed. She will probably be spayed today. 
    She had complete trust in me until I put her in the carreer. Then she 
    was just scared. No hissing but real worried to the point that on the 
    drive there she pooped in her carriage. But that may have been due to 
    the hissing and spitting of Bruster. Who's bruster you ask? Well 
    I just named him that yesterday so we can call him other than he kitty.
    Bruster is the stipped orange tabby male that hangs out with the bunch
    in yard. It was very intersting yesterday. He and another cat were 
    on the porch eating. the only ways out of there is either go inside 
    through the sliding door by ripping the screen, or jump off  or come
    down the stairs. I cought him on the way down. With gardening gloves
    on. But it didn't help my arm much. Got scratched there but managed to 
    put this fellow in the carreer. So he also is going to tested and 
    neutured. I think he was the only stud that hangs out with these girls
    there were signs on his nose and forehead that he had been probably 
    fighting for his women with another kitty maybe. Couple of scratch 
    marks on his face. He was very vocal on the ride to the vets and looked
    like he was calling me dirty names in cat language all the way to the 
    vets. He was still in the cage when I left. But i took Patches, (new 
    alias poopoo head ;-) ) out myself and one of the girls at the vet 
    handled her too , she did not resists but looked scared. Although she 
    calmed down quite a bit when we left Bruster outside on the counter 
    in his carreer. I think the poor guy kinda new what was going to
    happen, I guess if it were me and someone was going to cut things off
    I'd put up a fight too. 
    So far the decision is that if all goes well, both kitties will be 
    returned to their property after their surgeries. Keep your fingers 
    crossed.
    
    Shaw 
     
    

    Great that you got them both in.  For what it's worth, I have a couple
    of quite tame kitties that christen their carriers on the way to the
    vet too and they don't have much of an excuse like the ferals do.
    
    Jan

    Shaw...
    
    Great news about catching both of them.   Regarding the poop ...
    just think of the positive side...the vets now have a stool
    sample to check out!!!!
    
    I'm sure both will be VERY happy to get back to their
    original back yard!!!   
    
    Sandy 

    I've found that with my (ex-)ferals, the initial vet trip got me "I
    trusted you and now you ar edoing something awful to me", but when
    I arrived to bring them home, they had an attitude of being greatful,
    and were even more trusting (sin ethey discoved that they weren't being
    abandoned.
    
    good luck,
    Deb

    I agree with Deb, I've seen this with my own ex-feral kitties.
    Not only after vet trips, but after giving medicine.  They seem
    to sense after awhile that you're doing something for their
    benefit, even though it doesn't seem like it to them at the time.
                                                         

    
    last night both Ms. Patches and Bruster were returned home, with 
    a bill of health and fixed. To my surprise Bruster, the ex-stud 
    was not nasty, he let me touch him and pet him. I picked him up and 
    although he was tense, he started to purr real loud when I scratched
    his chin. Patches already recognized my and gave me head butts. 
    There was absulote silence in the car on the way back to their 
    property. I let them out of their carriers in the basement. Well 
    the house is on hill, so although from the front side, you will go 
    down to it, on the other side, there is a garage door that opens into
    the back yard, which is huge and that's were most of the cats hang out
    in the bushes , the woods or the two large dog houses. 
    This basement already has the large litter box, which gets tended to 
    daily. There was already food and water waiting for them when they 
    got out of their carriage. They both went straight to the food and 
    you could hear the churrping. On one corner of this old garage 
    there is a big blanket that they can crash if they wish and a couple 
    of brand new cat beds ;-) We are hoping that this experience will 
    help these two see this place as a home and hang out here more often
    and stop roaming the woods as there is always risks involved , such as
    coydogs, those run away hound dogs and ...
    I will not be able to visit them again until next Monday, but feel real
    good about it all and this was quit an accomplishment as Bruster will 
    not be mating anymore!
    
    Shaw
     

    
    Shaw, you are doing wonderful things.
    

    Great job.....I'm sure both kitties will be alot happier.
    
    I really wouldn't doubt if the two kitties start to use
    the home more.  From my experience on my last four stray
    cats, my intentions was to do the medical work and let them
    back out in the neighborhood and continue to feed them.  WELL..
    they enjoyed the pampering so much...they didn't want to leave
    so they really became indoor/outdoor kitties who would much 
    prefer to be indoors.
    
    Sandy 

    
    Out of the bunch that  hangs out in a pack, there is one orange female
    that we haven't seen for a while. Last time we saw her, over a week
    ago she was very pregnant. I hope that she is safe and around. 
    The ladies have found dead kittens in the past. They think she is 
    too old to have healthy kittens. 
    Does anyone know if age will also stop the going in heat process?
    Would it be more risk involved on a older cat to go through surgery?
    Our mission will not be complete there until we find her. 
    The intesion with these two is to make them house cats. The big test
    will be next week. One of the ladies is having a Birthday party that 
    will last Saturday through Sunday. Many of her relatives are coming 
    from all over and some will be camping overnight on the property with 
    tents set up. I hope all the commotion will not spook the cats. 
    
    Shaw
    

    Shaw...
    
    My guess is the Orange Mom went off to have her kittens
    some place safe.  (whether she can deliver healthy kittens
    is anther story).  Normally a prego female who lives outside
    with other strays will NOT have the kittens around that area,
    but will return once the kittens are old enough.  My guess is...
    you won't even see the Orange Mom for atleast 3-4 weeks.  This
    exact thing happened to me last year and sure enough after 4 weeks
    the Mom came back with all 5 of her babies.
    
    I'm sure there is a risk of spaying an older female..BUT there
    is also a major risk of allowing her to continue to go into
    heat and have babies at her age.  I would definitely recommend
    spaying her because the risk is less.
    
    Great job...keep up the work.  thank god these kitties have you!!
    
    Sandy 

    
    Sandy, thank you for the information. If that's the case and we 
    wouldn't see the pregnant cat, we would have been worried silly!
    Atleast now we know she is in hiding. As hard as it is to know that
    by spaying that cat we might endanger it, knowing the alternatives 
    don't sound that good either. I am sure that god looks over all his 
    creatures and what's best for her will happen.  Sorvival for the 
    kittens might be hard if we cann't locate them in time. As there is 
    quite a bit of wild life in that area. Did I mention that at one 
    time we saw a deer in the background and the racoon was eating the 
    stray cats food and the strays were lazing out by bush in the shade. 
    quite a site. 
    
    
    Shaw 

    If she is close to the area...she might attempt to sneak out
    late at night for a bite to eat...but she will go right back
    to her babies.
    
    I have raccoons, opposums and skunks joining my strays for 
    a bite to eat on my porch.  Tis amazing that they all get
    along.  I think they all know there is enough food...so there
    is no need to fight over it.   I would be worried about
    foxs, coyotee's etc...
    
    Sandy   

    
    If some of you remember, I mentioned about the two ladies and Patches 
    there was another female orange and white cat semi long hair that 
    was very pregnant, appear to be an older cat. Well we were there 
    yesterday and found the where she had the kitties. We had help clean 
    up the property and there was this pile of woods and cut down branches
    we saw the orange cat hanging out there often. So Rose went closer 
    after the mom kitty was gone and could see atleast three kitties ;-)
    An orange and white one, a black or dark coloured one and a beige one. 
    We left cat food and milk for the moma close by , we she came back 
    later and finished the milk in one shot. 
    I have no personal experience but have been told with ferrals if humans
    get too close to the kitties or leave a human scent on them too early
    the mom cat might remove the kitties from there or most likely even 
    kill them. (is this true?) Obviously we won't get near until the 
    kitties open their eyes and are moving about. But we are also concerned
    about the other wild life around there. As the woods in the back could
    have coydogs. The plan is to try and socialize the kitties when its
    time and bring them to the vets for first visits. We will find homes
    for them, even on the property but preferrably indoors. 
    So when is the ideal time to try and get close. Rose has already sorta
    established her persence as food provider for the mom, so she won't 
    freak to see her too close to the bushes where the kitties are. 
    
    Shaw

    I don't have much experience with baby kittens...but at the
    shelter we have had many feral Mom's with kittens and we
    try to start the socialization immediately.  I have never see
    a Feral mom reject her kittens from us touching them.
    
    Where your kitty is in the wild (not caged) my guess is your 
    kitty would attempt to move the kittens if they are VERY young.
    I know most people like to see Kittens stay with their Mom's
    atleast until the kittens are 10-12 weeks old, but in your
    case I would probably try to attempt to get the kittens
    between weeks 5-7.   That way they can still be socialized
    and they should already be starting to eat on their own.
    
    Good luck Shaw...
    
    Sandy  

    
    	I don't remember if I wrote about the neighborhood cat before, so
    bear with me.  I have a beautiful grey long haired cat that lives down
    the street but spends all his time around my house and my other 
    neighbors.  This cat sounds like a human baby when it meows and is real
    friendly. Unfortunately he spent the winter outside with shelter in
    our barns and garages.  His owner actually came to my door and asked
    if I wanted him seeing he likes my yard/area better.  I said no having
    trouble with my Pumpkin spraying and all.  Well, his owners moved last
    week and guess who they left behind!!!!!@#$%^&  I don't know if its a
    he or a she , if its fixed, shots etc.  I do know the old guy across 
    the street is feeding him.  People really %!$$ me off sometimes!
    	I wish I knew where they moved to so I could remind them to 
    get their cat!   Thanks for listening!     Sue

re .399

>    	I wish I knew where they moved to so I could remind them to 
>    get their cat!   Thanks for listening!     Sue

Sue, since all the junk mail seems to find me when I move, I bet you could 
try reaching them through the post office.  You might not be able to do any-
thing more than let them know what a rotten thing they did, but even that 
could make them feel uncomfortable that you could find them.  I know the junk 
mailers request address corrections; I don't know whether us ordinary citizens 
can do the same.  It'd be worth it to find out.  It should be against the law 
to abandon an animal.  But I guess in a society where people abandon their own
children, we will continue to see things like this happen.

				SQ

    
    	I was informed yesterday about some scummy people who were
    evicted for non-payment of rent. (approx. $3000) Well, guess
    what they forgot?  You probably guessed it by now, 2 beautiful
    kittens.  My brother took one, all black male approx. 3 months
    old.  The other, a female, looks quite a bit younger, she's
    dark calico, with average length fur.  They both were climbing
    all over me yesterday, I may end up fostering the calico if
    we don't find a home over the weekend.  She's located in Gardner
    Ma. so if anyone is looking for a  lovable kitten just let me
    know and I can arrange the adoption.  
    	The kittens weren't the only things left behind by these
    people but its too disgusting to write about!  Oh yeah, the owner
    of the building did call MSPCA and got an 800 number to report
    these people.  He's an animal lover like the rest of us!
    	Sorry if I'm being judgemental but how can people do this?
    The law didn't allow these people to keep their own kids but they
    can still own animals?		Thanks for listening  Sue

    
    	Good news!  Regarding note 515.401:  The MSPCA fined the jerks
    $1000.00 or so many hours of community service!  It's nice to see
    a group care about animals as much as we do!  Also both kittens
    have gotten clean bills of health, the younger of the two did have
    ear mites and worms but nothing too serious.  Now they'll be getting
    all their shots and both have loving homes.  I saw the black one
    last night and he slept in my arms, like a baby for an hour!  I
    wanted to sneak him home to my house but my brothers girlfriend
    kept her eyes on me! ha ha   Have a good weekend!  Sue

    
    Hi, there is so much that has happened here in this file. We just got
    back from an emergency trip we had to make to France for a couple of 
    weeks.  We have a cat sitter for our cats, that we hadn't used for 
    a while. In the past years when we went skiing every weekend, the cat
    sitter would tend to the cats. But then we learned that the cats loved
    it up there and all through this summer we've been taking up there with
    us. Especially that at home they are indoor only. But when we are up 
    there they can come out and hang out in the sun deck and bath in the
    sun and look at traffic go by ;-) 
    When they saw us packing I guess they though we are going up north
    again and I will not forget their sad faces when we just left without
    loading the cat carriers.  Although My SO's teenage son was home 
    most of the time, and we had the cat sitter visit twice a day, she said
    that for the first three days, they did not touch their food and after
    that they were just eating enough out of their dishes to sorvive. 
    When we came back however, they greeted us and where loving right
    away.  They have lost a little weight, but now are eating like little
    pigs again.  Has anyone else experienced their cats go on a hunger 
    strike? 
    
    Shaw

    My cat did the same thing when I was away for a week.  The folks taking
    care of him insisted that he hated his dry food.  Little did they know
    that just a week before he was more than happy with it!  He refused to
    eat his regular food and existed on snacks and treats.  Now that I'm
    back, he's eating more than before although he's never been a big
    eater.  
    
    I also think the warm weather affected his eating habits.  As soon as
    the mornings have gotten a bit cooler, he's more active and more
    interested in eating.
    
    Gita

    My go through the same thing.  I don't understand it they hate the boat
    but when I force them to go they eat like pigs the whole trip.
    
    Dennis

    Dolly cat thinks it's way kewl that the weather service has named a
    tropical storm after her. :^)
    
    Jan

    
    	I know this is in the wrong place but I can't find the other
    note and I'm real busy, feel free to move it.
    	 A woman was asking about allergy meds. so she could visit her
    mom who wants to get a cat, well, the stuff from the health food
    store is made by:  BioAllers   they have different ones for each
    allergy: Animal hair/dander relief, Grass, Pollen/Hayfever etc.
    
    	It's 1 fl. oz. for $8.95 at the health food store in Gardner.
    
    
    			Hope this helps!   Sue

    Borrowed this recipe from the internet.  I know I've seen the recipe
    for cookies in this file somewhere.  Thought the cake should go with 
    it.  If anyone remembers where it is, let me know and I'll move this
    note there too.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  I have not tried this recipe and I'm not sure that I ever
          will.  :^)
    
    
Subject: Kitty Litter Cake
Date: 16 Jun 1996 21:06:18 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats

I have no idea where this recipe came from so pardon me if it has been
on this newsgroup before - I just started reading it a few weeks ago.

Kitty Litter Cake

1 Spice or German Chocolate Cake Mix
1 White Cake Mix
1 large pkg Vanilla Instant Pudding Mix
1 pkg White Sandwich Cookies
Green Food Coloring
12 small Tootsie Rolls

1 NEW kitty litter box
1 NEW kitty litter box liner
1 NEW pooper scooper.

Prepare cake mixes and bake according to box directions (any size pan).

Prepare pudding, chill until ready to assemble.

Crumble sandwich cookies in small batches in food processor, scraping
often.  Set aside all but 1/4 cup.  To the 1/4 cup of crumbs add a few
drops green food coloring and mix using fork or shake in a jar.

When cakes are cooled to room temp., crumble into a large bowl.  Toss
with half the remaining cookie crumbs and chilled pudding.  You probably
won't need all the pudding, mix the cake and "feel" it, you don't want
it soggy, just moist; gently combine.

Line litter box.  Put mixture into box.  Put 3 unwrapped Tootsie Rolls
in microwave safe dish and heat until softened.  Shape ends so they are
no longer blunt, curving slightly.  Repeat with 3 more Tootsie Rolls and
bury in cake mixture.  Sprinkle the other half of the cookie crumbs over
top.  Scatter green crumbs lightly over top (chlorophyll in cat litter).

Heat 3 Tootsie Rolls in microwave until almost melted.  Scrap them on
top of the cake and sprinkle with cookie crumbs.  Spread remaining
Tootsie Rolls over top; take one and heat until pliable, hang over side
of litter box, sprinkle with cookie crumbs.

I think this would be a great Halloween party cake.

    <---That is the most "unique" recipe I have ever heard of.  Disguesting
    and funny at the same time! 
    
    Nancy

    My daughter and I can hardly WAIT til our annual Halloween party to try
    it!  (Urg: hope Skruf & Veto don't decide to "try" it  =8'O  :'P )
    
    Hey Nancy, does "disguesting" mean everybody'll leave the party? :-D
                        ^^^^^
    
    That tootsie roll draped over the side is the perfect touch!
    
    Leslie                                                

    
      I think of this 'yummy' cake everytime I look at Zsa Zsa's litter
    box.!
    
       

    Reminds me of when I first ate the cold cereal Grapenuts with Raisens.
    
    Before I poured in the milk, visions of litter box always came to mind.
    Good think I liked the cereal!
    
    janetb.

    I was on my way to work this morning when I had to stop for a red light.  
    While sitting at the light I glanced over to the Calvin Presbytarian 
    Church and did a quick double take when I saw the sign that lists their 
    morning worship time and sermon title for the week.  It said...
    
    	"If you put gloves on a cat, it can't catch mice."
    
    Jan

    I was on my way to work this morning when I had to stop for a red light.  
    While sitting at the light I glanced over to the Calvin Presbytarian 
    Church and did a quick double take when I saw the sign that lists their 
    morning worship time and sermon title for the week.  It said...
    
    	"If cats wore gloves they wouldn't catch mice."
    
    Jan

    Just wanted to let you guys know that rec.pets.cats has undergone a 
    transformation recently.  It has been split into several new groups.
    
    	rec.pets.cats.health+behav	Health & behavior
    	rec.pets.cats.announce		FAQS, breed FAQS, etc.
    	rec.pets.cats.anecdotes	        Stories
    	rec.pets.cats.community         Meowchat and other social stuff
    	rec.pets.cats.rescue 		Rescue activities
    	rec.pets.cats.misc              Everything else that doesn't fit
    
    What a difference.  I've spent most of my time reading the rescue
    group.  The volume of posts is much more manageable this way.  There
    appears to be less flames (unless they're showing up in the other 
    groups) and you can actually find helpful information in there.
    
    Of course, they will never measure up to this FELINE notesfile but it's
    good to know an effort has been made to make these newgroups more
    useful.
    
    Jan

    I was forced (dragged kicking and screaming) to swap out my CPU on my
    DEC PC for a box with a Pentium chip.  It's a Tandy box. 
    
    Unfortunately, the monitor I had wouldn't work with it so I ended up
    with a Tandy monitor.  This has been a painful time as I learn which
    things on my old PC are gone now because I didn't realize that they
    wouldn't be there any more.  You see, I didn't realize when I got the
    new box that I would be saying bye-bye to Office 95 and Exchange and
    coming up on Office 97 and Outlook so didn't know to transfer certain
    things to the server so I could get to them again.
    
    There is one kind of cool thing with Outlook though.  You get this
    little helper.  I just discovered today that the silly little paperclip
    guy with eyes can be changed to something more interesting (a dog,
    Einstein, a red ball, a space ship, Shakespear, etc.)  
    
    I now have as my helper "Scribble" the cat.  The dialog box next to her
    picture (when I made the selection) said "Hi.  After spending all day
    playing, I guess I'm ready to help."  Isn't that just like a cat.
    
    Jan   

    Judy,
    
    I tried replying in mail to both addresses you gave me and failed
    miserably.  So, here's how to change your helper.
    
    Right click on your current helper.  This will bring up a menu box.  
    Select "choose assistant".  Use "back" and "next" to scroll through 
    the various assistants until you find "Scribble" the cat.  Then click 
    on okay and you'll have Scribble available whenever you bring up Outlook.
    
    Jan

    
    <sigh> I don't know where else to put this, and I need advice.
    
    Fargas was sleeping on my chest last night; something scared him, and
    rather than retreating backwards, he peeled out across my face.
    
    Needless to say, I look like I've been slashed with a razor on the left
    side of my face.
    
    I cleaned the scratches with hydrogen peroxide.  They're pretty deep,
    and they bled a lot.  This is the first time I've had this experience
    in 7 years.
    
    How long will they take to heal?  Should I call my doctor?  I had a
    tetanus shot about a year ago.  I mean, can I get any dreadful disease
    from cat scratches, or will I just be ugly for a while?
    

> I mean, can I get any dreadful disease
>    from cat scratches, or will I just be ugly for a while?

I think there are some e things to be concerned about, but 
only really if you're pregnant. 

If there were nasties to be got I think most of us'd've gone down 
with it by now... 

I'd check with the doctor if it goes near your eye or you're uncomfortable 
about it.
When it scabs don't scratch, they're usually quite deep  as you noticed
and scar if encouraged. Personally I try to remember to wear them as 
badges (like scouts) for the adventures me and my kitties have had together. 

E45 lotion smooths over kitty scratches all over my hands quite well
so should help too. 


>How long will they take to heal? 

Varies but scratches I've had take a day to dry properly then the rest of the 
week to start going away, I guess about 2 'til they're not noticable if I don't 
soak then in the bath (which I guess would be hard to do with the side of 
your face :=)

    I would just keep my eye on the scratches and if you see
    them getting red or infected...it would be time to call your
    Doctor.
    
    I usually find that the bites/scratches that do NOT bleed
    tend to become more infected!
    
    Thank god we love our kitties.....
    
    Sandy 
    

    If you aren't allergic, to it a bit of neosporin might not hurt.  
    
    Usually no real lasting problems from scratches, although I have a
    couple of scars on my hands that are pretty prominent, but they were
    not from a cat running over them in panic, but rather from one that I
    had to bathe when I worked as a groomer.  Since the cuts were
    constantly in and out of water they tended to heal more slowly and
    build more scar tissue.  They also were borderline infected from being
    in and out of water, but I couldn't afford a week or two off the job to
    get them healed.  I used vitamin e on some serious lacerations and
    abrasions on Carrie's face when the scabs were loosening and getting
    itchy and it did seem to lessen the scarring, so that might not hurt
    when the time comes.  Face skin, also according to a nurse I met in a
    burn unit (long story) explained that facial skin is the least likely
    to scar skin on the body.  (don't ask me why, but I would imagine she
    has seen enough after 4 years in a burn unit to know.)  
    
    Major worries besides infection might be cat scratch fever, if you have
    never run into it before.  Usually no worse than a nasty cold, it can
    have implications if you are pregnant, but most of us have an immunity
    from earlier run ins and never knew what caused the bit of fever and
    swelling.  
    
    

    
    Thanks, everyone, for the info.  Luckily I'm not pregnant 8^).
    
    They're a little less noticeable today.  They were a bit tender and
    swollen yesterday, but today they're flat and just ugly.  I
    re-peroxided and got no bubbles, so we should be ok.
    
    The horrified looks of my co-workers are a little embarassing, but I've
    had a fair number of people glance casually and say, "...cat?"
    
    I love him so much, and I know he didn't do it on purpose, but I wish
    he had chosen a part of my body that could be covered 8^).
    

    
    
    	re: Jan
    
    	Well now this is interesting....... I've pulled up Excel,
    	PowerPoint, and Word and the 'assistant' no longer appears!
    	=(
    

Since when did cats ever appear when you want them/call them/expect them :-) 
It's obviously well written. 

Re peroxide - I vaguely remember someone mentioning when I had a piercing 
done that the peroxide is good to get rid of the dead stuff when a wound 
is first done but it removes some of the healing tissue too so leaves the 
wound open for longer (and therefore slows healing) ... worth a check, 
dunno about over there but most dispensing chemists over here would be 
able to tell you if that's right I expect. 

 

    
    
    	I think I've fixed it.  =)  I *thought* the assistant showed up
    	every time I pulled up Excel, Word or Powerpoint.  I used the
    	'help' menu and Scribbles appeared.  =)
    

    
    I talked to the nurses here (I'm in EHS) and they suggested neosporin
    or some such since it's clean now.  Other people have recommended
    Vitamin E caps.
    
    I'll stop with the peroxide.  I don't want these to be here any longer
    than necessary.

    I use Johnson & Johnson First Aid Cream on scratches.  It does seem to
    make a difference in reducing redness.
    
    signed,
    
    on week two of poison oak on my face, sigh.
    

    Re:  Scribble
    
    I thought she only appeared with Outlook.  I hadn't noticed her with
    Word or Excel.  I've been off work since Friday so I'll have to check
    it out when I get back on Tuesday.
    
    Re:  cat tracks on the face
    
    Been there, done that...more times than I care to admit.  Mac likes to
    use my face to push off when I'm in bed and he's startled.  Or, I've
    had one of the other cats running around in a frenzy run right over my
    head laying the skin equivalent of tire tracks in the process.
    
    If the scratches are really deep you may want to look into antibiotics
    just in case.  If not, you can probably get away with using a
    polysporin product on them.  My sister's doctor recommends Polysporin 
    over Neosporin because she feels that the Neosporin causes the wound to
    close over potential infection too quickly.  The Polysporin apparently
    doesn't do this.  
    
    When Mac mistook me for the cat he was trying to shred on the patio I
    ended up using antibiotics and polysporin (after a long soak in
    betadyne solution at the hospital).  The wounds healed quite nicely.
    I did get the tetanus shot because it had been several years since my
    last major cat wound (torn eyelid from a startled Amelia) and I
    couldn't remember if it was more or less than ten years since that 
    wound.
    
    Jan
          

    > on week two of poison oak on my face, sigh.

    Karen,

    If it has lasted that long, and it sounds like you are suffering
    miserably,  have you seen a dermatologist about it? I'm pretty allergic
    to it's east coast cousin, poison ivy, and last year I wound up getting
    a shot of banderole along with a 3 week supply of prednosone and three
    special steroid based creams (one for near the eyes, one for the rest
    of the face and the other for my hands and arms).

    Deb

    Re: Scribble
    
    I checked.  Scribble does come up with Word and Excel.  She's a little
    annoying though.  I have to click on something on the word box to be
    able to continue using the application.  
    
    Jan

    
    Deb, I saw my doctor the first day, because I didn't know what
    the heck it was, and he gave me some steroid shot.  Good thing too,
    because I puffed up all around my eyes over the next 1-2 hours, then
    the steroid kicked in.  He said I didn't need to put anything on it,
    just keep it from getting infected.  It's very, very slowly healing,
    much slower than a regular cut type thing.  I gather it does take
    3 weeks or more to heal?  It actually doesn't hurt or itch, it just
    looks truly terrible :-)
    

    
     For those occassional and always accidental ;*) cat scratches we get,
    nothing works better for me than thyme oil applied at the time of the
    scratch - prevents infection by killing the germs immediately, use 3x
    a day for 1 day or so. Then lavender oil, also prevents infection but
    is also very healing to the skin and goes a long way towards preventing
    scarring. Finally aloe applied once scab is thoroughly dried will
    continue the scar prevention and keep skin supple. This combo has never
    failed for me, and with a dozen animals, lots of roses and prickly
    things, etc., believe me it gets used a lot!

    Re:  My Office97 helper
    
    Okay, so I'm amused by simple things.  I just noticed that Scribble
    picks up a kitten and moves it into a file folder when I'm refiling 
    a document I've made changes on.  What a crack up!
    
    Jan

    
    
    	Really?  Neat!