Conference misery::feline

    How long have you had Hitter?  Is this still an adjustment phase?
    I had a similar problem with Holly, and what worked (pretty much, she
    now has a slight tendency to avoid Little Bit as opposed to snarling at
    him) was to shut her (Holly) away in "coventry" when she misbehaved. 
    Since she is very attached to me, this is a major punishment.  5
    minutes may be sufficient, immediately repeated if she goes after
    Catnippy again when she comes out of Coventry.  In our case, Coventry
    is the second bedroom with the door closed.  This process has to be
    repeated from time to time.
    
    I also reassure Little Bit, but I think Coventry is more effective in
    changing Holly's behavior.  Reassuring LB just makes Holly more
    jealous, while she views avoiding Coventry as desirable.
    

    I believe I read something on this problem in Cat Fancy yesterday
    while I was flying back from Dallas.  I was so tired I can't remember
    clearly what it said.  I'll try to remember to check tonight and let
    you know what they say.
    
    Jan 

    
    
    	Thanks for the replies. I do like the Coventry idea.
    	That is sure worth a try because Hitther really
    	is attached to me (like the velcro cat). Yes,
    	this is still an adjustment period. I have had
    	both of them since the end of May (I think). I guess
    	I just am hoping for an end to the hard part of this
    	adjustment period you know? Kind of like "Grant me
    	patience-and I mean RIGHT NOW!"?  arrgh. 
    	Major cat altercation in bed last night. Catnip was
    	sleeping on top of the bed. Hitther came out of her
    	basket and slithered up under the covers on the edge
    	to cuddle. Catnip got up and stretched and scared
    	the daylights out of Hithher who immediately went
    	berserk under the covers with hissing and snarling
    	and they both blew off into various corners of the
    	house leaving their mom slightly shell shocked trying
    	to restart her heart...sheesh! Meantime, old mellow
    	Winston was cruising around the room trilling and trying
    	to find someone who would play with him. (btw: Winston
    	is in the cat hospital today being neutered. Not a fun
    	day for Winston.)
    						kim
    

    This may not be too encouraging.
    
    After a period of apprenticeship, Fluffy had finally become Sole Feline
    Proprietor and Queen of our household.  She became a very mellow cat.
    
    About four (?) years ago, when Fluffy was 10 or so, the Pilou-monster
    entered our lives.  We expected the first time he saw Fluffy he would
    realize (perhaps after some persuasion with a paw) that she was boss. 
    But no.  At their first encounter, Pilou arched up, puffed out his
    kitten fur, stiff-legged it over to Fluffy's vicinity, and hissed. 
    Then he stiff-legged it into another room ("advancing to the rear" as
    cats will do) and threw up.  Both events were prophetic.
    
    Fluffy took a dim view of this, as can be imagined.
    
    From the start, Pilou wanted to wrassle with Fluffy and he wanted to
    play rough.  Fluffy wanted none of it, and would try to bat him
    away, but she couldn't escape or discourage the constant stalking and
    pouncing.  In time Pilou grew up and physical intimidation didn't work. 
    Fortunately he attacked less frequently, but his attacks carried a lot
    more freight.  To this day, he occasionally launches attacks of
    astonishing violence that leave Fluffy running to some dark corner of
    the house, hissing madly.  He knows it's bad because as soon as he does
    it, he looks around for me, expecting to get yelled at and/or swatted. 
    It's almost as if he can't help himself.  ("Stop me before I pounce
    again!")
    
    As a result, Fluffy is always on the lookout for Pilou and sometimes
    cuffs him just for good measure.  Other times she is fairly friendly,
    sniffing him when he's been outside for example.  (Oddly enough, they
    rarely fight at the food dishes.)  The only place she will sleep -
    apparently the only place she feels safe - is right by our heads.  I
    think she would crawl into my ear if she could.  Pilou owns the bottom
    half of the bed, and we make do with what's left.
    
    All this is tolerable and sometimes amusing, but it demonstrates that
    time doesn't necessarily alleviate this kind of aggression.  I don't
    know what we could have done differently.  It seems as if their
    relationship was set when Pilou was a playful little boy and Fluff was
    a bit of a grande dame, and they can't break out of those roles.
    
    Andy

    When I brought my second cat (Boo Boo) into the household, Ebony
    became a maniac!  For 4 whole months Ebony terrorized the new little
    kitten (Ebony was 6 months old at the time).  But after 4 months the
    two became the best of friends.
    
    It was hard to watch.  I spent private time with both cats; Ebony to
    show her that I still loved her and Boo Boo to show him what love was,
    because Ebony sure wasn't doing that!
    
    It all worked out....thanks goodness!

    Cleo is the mom cat of my other three.  Katie was in her first litter,
    Skeeter and Alex in her second.  I came home from work one day and the
    cats were scattered to the 4 corners of the house.  The tension was so
    thick in here you could cut it with a knife.  For some reason there was
    a fight between Katie, Skeeter and Alex.  Alex and Katie have *never*
    liked one another.  Skeeter and Alex are best buddies.  To this day I
    don't know what happened, but they have never been friends again. 
    Katie is the outcast and Alex will go after her whenever she comes out
    of what is now her room.  Katie is not allowed in my bedroom at all by
    Skeeter and Alex and they don't like it when she comes near me. 
    Occasionally there are major blow-out fights, but most of the time
    Katie knows the rules and follows them.  I don't know what to do to
    resolve this problem.  It doesn't seem very fair to Katie and she
    doesn't get the attention that the others get.  Sometimes I feel really
    sorry for her.
    
    Karen

    
    
    	Thanks for the help here. I do appreciate it. So does
    	Catnippy. She rather likes this 'get thee to the coventry'
    	approach. Hitther would like to know what exactly is
    	a coventry? For her, it appears to be a rather lonely
    	guest bath. Boring, but I hope effective. She is quite
    	mellow and purring when she comes out after five minutes.
    	She has spent a few "five minutes's" there since yesterday.
    
    						kim again
    

    Re: Hitther would like to know what exactly is a coventry?
    
    Coventry
    (kuv <schwa> n tre, kov-),
    n.
    1. a city in West Midlands, in central England: heavily bombed 1940.
       337,000.
    2. send to Coventry, to refuse to associate with; openly ignore: His
       friends sent him to Coventry after he was court-martialed.
    

    
    
    	Hitther thanks you. She is definitely beginning to
    	make the correct association with this Coventry
    	location.  Catnippy thanks you especially. So
    	does her mom (me) and dad.
    					Kim
    

    I had a recent episode of the terror's myself upon bringing
    Peaches home from the vet.
    
    Actually Mittens (the bully) wasn't going after Peaches...
    but me!  (For bringing this foreign animal into the house!)
    Peaches has actually lived with Mittens for over a year,
    but those two days away at the vets changed her smell just
    enough to confuse and p.o. Mittens off.
    
    Had to show the nasty furface (and I mean spitting, hissing,
    swinging) who really ran the household...a 30 minute "holding
    period" in the bathroom did the trick!  He came out snuggling
    and over his attitude!
    
    C.
    

    
    
    My cats have an aggressive behavior problem.  Here's the story.
    
    In about October my husband and I came home after being gone about
    4 hours to find that our spayed female was stuck up a tree.  (Her
    neutered brother was fine.)  Near the tree was this vary large
    yellow cat, a Tom I assume but am not sure.  He was very aggressive
    towards my husband.  The cat tried to go up the tree after Pretty
    Girl and my husband had to forceably remove him, whereupon the Big
    Cat bit my husband.  (We havent gotten ill or died so I don't
    think Rabies is a concern.)
    
    Now, we just got back from being gone for 6 days and having some
    cat-lover neighbors care for our cats.  I found many scratches on
    both cats.  The night we got back we were relaxing when we heard
    this horrible rucus.  Howling, screaming, banging ...  I ran to the
    dining room where the sounds were coming from to find Spike-fur all
    over the rug; that mean Tom Cat outside the sliding glass window;
    and Pretty Girl under the table howling like I've never heard.  MY
    husband tapped on the glass to scare the Tom and the cat tried to
    attack through the glass, throwing himself at the window, hissing ...
    We opened the door to chase him away and he ran.
    
    Now, to complicate matters, Spike, Pretty Girl's brother, is also a
    yellow cat.  He was outside last night and I was sitting in the dining
    room.  I hear this loud bang, look up and see Pretty Girl pratically
    attached to the glass door.  She'd thown herself against it all
    legs spread out in different directions.  (Looked sort of like the
    road runner when he falls off a cliff.)  As soon as I let Spike in and
    Pretty Girl realize it was him she was fine.
    
    So a) why is this Tom Cat so aggressive, b) why is Pretty Girl
    so aggressive and c) how can I stop this situation?  It seems that
    Pretty sees this Tom Cat outside; freaks out; and beats up her
    brother.
    
    Rachael

    
    
    
    And I've thought about trying to use a Have-a-heart on the Tom Cat
    but since it's still so cold, I wouldn't want to freeze him to death.
    Plus I'm not so sure that he's the only problem.
    
    Rachael

    Any idea who's cat it is?  If so, try contacting them.
    
    Otherwise....do dog catchers take cats?  Tell them you think
    it's rabid and going after small children (I mean it did take
    off after your hubby, didn't it?)
    
    Last resort, cold weather or not, a bucket of cold water in
    his direction should cool him off.  He's become too much of a
    terror (by the sounds of it) and what happens when you're not
    around to save your babies the next time.  This means war!
    
    Good Luck!
    
    C.
    

    Just a warning if you tell the dog officer the cat might be
    rabid...the cat will probably be shot on the spot!!  That is how
    our area is dealing with calls from folks who think animals
    are rabid...it doesn't matter if it's a cat/dog/raccoon!!  Even
    though the kittie might be aggresive....I don't feel that is the
    route to take.
    
    I think contacting the owners is a good suggestion...or try
    capturing the cat and have him neuter...or bring him to a shelter...
    or try keeping your kitties in for awhile....or squirt him with
    water...or try to scare him away by banging pots and pans!!!
    
    The cat is probably aggresive because he hasn't been neutered...
    might not have a home...and has had to fight to survive!!
    
    Good luck...
    
    Sandy
    
    
    
    
    

    I have a similar situation...
    
    Every time my male cat (neutered) see another cat outside his tail
    puffs all up (it gets HUGE) and then he attacks my female cat.  Luckily
    this doesn't happen all to often, but when it does I have to draw the
    shades, separate the cats, and let my male cat chill-out for 10-15 minutes
    before I'll put the two cats together again.
    
    It must be a territorial thing(?).  I don't like it, but I don't know
    how to stop it.
    
    - Lauri
    

    
    Thanks for the info so far.  I think there are a couple points of
    confusion.
    	currently, the problem occurs, (or I only see it), when
    	the any yellow cat is outside and Pretty Girl is inside.
    
    	anytime my husband or I open the door to spray the cat with
    	something, he runs so fast we cannot find him or reach him.
    
    I'm just hoping to solve this to prevent Spike from getting beaten
    up anymore or to prevent Pretty Girl from breaking anything while
    she smashes into the glass door.
    
    I could put a note up in the post office asking the owner to contact
    me.  That way I can find out if he even has a home.
    
    Rachael
    

    I'm a little confused -- do Pretty Girl and Spike have a cat door,
    or do you let them in and out?
    
    One thing you could do is keep them inside all the time;  they should
    adjust and stop asking to go out in about two weeks.
    
    It's normal when a cat is freaked out by an aggressive situation, like
    an alien cat nearby, for them to attack anything in their
    range, including their brother cat or owners.  The way that I know
    of to deal with this is to not try to handle the cat and to keep the
    sibs separated until they calm down.  The real way to fix it is to
    deal with the alien cat problem --
    
    Probably the tom is not neutered, and that and possibly being
    feral and having to fight for food is why he's so aggresive.  If you
    can't find his owners, I'd try leaving him food some where away from the
    house, like near a shed or something, so he wouldn't tend to home
    in on the house.  I'd definitely keep your cats indoors to
    prevent further conflicts.
    

    I strongly disagree with .13, and strongly agree with .14, Sandy is
    right. To lie the cat is rabid and after children is not fair. The poor
    beast has to fight for his life, which life is hard because of us
    humans. Never be hasty... and putting out food is a good idea of Karen!
    
    BTW, attacking own people/cats while being confused of a stranger, you
    remember, I had it, and have asked for help as my loving furball bit
    through my hand. I solved the problem with a water pistol for the
    attacker, and some (don't laugh) deo spray sprayed thickly on the stone
    floor before the windowsill in the strangercat's absence. He hated
    human deo! (Do not spray the cat!). Too much water on the cat is bad in
    cold days - the poor furball might freeze to death.  Oh I would love a
    problemless world even if it is boring...
    
    I read a book from the Strugatsky brothers (sci-fi) with the title:
    'Hard To Be A God'  - how true.
    
    Nat
                                             

    Your best bet is to capture the tom, and get him neutered, while
    trying to find his owners. (good luck...sounds like there are not
    any, or that they don't give a hoot about the cat!)  If you can't
    keep hi after the neutering, try to find him a home.

    
    
    Thanks for all the replies.  To answer some questions:
      - the cats don't have a cat door.  we let Spike out if he wants
      to go.  Pretty Girl we don't let out since we had to "save" her
      from out of that tree.
    
    The problems only occurr through the glass door.  The Tom Cat is on
    the other side of the glass door.  That's what I meant by 'through
    the door".  that's why I'm concerned about Pretty Girl ramming her
    head into the glass door.  I know my head would get hurt doing that!
    (Maybe I ought to rename her "Pretty Dumb Girl").
    
    I'll try feeding the cat, although he's really huge.  I can't imagine
    that he's a stray, but who knows!
    
    Rachael
    
    
    

    Rachel,
    
    don't let his size fool you!  A friend of mine has a barn and there's
    one particular cat that comes by every so often that they KNOW is a
    feral cat and he's HUGE!!  Probably a good 15 lbs!  
    
    My advice ... get a have-a-heart trap and catch him .. bring him to the
    vets and have him fixed.  
    
    In the mean time ... is there a way of blocking that glass door so that
    she can't see out of it??  
    
    Cats often can't see glass, that's why they "run into" the glass.  You
    may want to try and find a way to "mark" the glass.  In our old house,
    we had a glass door and finally had to get some colored tape and run it
    along the bottom of the glass so that the cats could see that there
    actually was something there.
    
    Holly
    

    Rachael,
    
    I'm dealing with a similar problem (difference is my cats never
    go out).  I have a whole male living on my patio.  Onyx hates him.
    I'm sure it has something to do with him being a whole male.  I
    plan to have him tested and neutered soon but financially I've
    been having alot of problems so it is having to wait a while.
    
    Onyx does charge the glass door periodically too.  It sounds like
    the whole door is coming down when he does it.  I've also had some
    trouble with him doing his version of spraying around the glass door 
    and my front door.
    
    I'm hoping that getting the whole male (BTW I call him Dusty) neutered
    will help the situation.  With any luck at all it will help enough
    that I can eventually bring Dusty into the house.  I want to clean 
    him up and find him a home (of course, he may already belong to me
    if Onyx will accept him after neutering...I'm getting very attached).
    
    Since it has been raining so much, Dusty is sticking very close to
    the patio in the perch I've set up for him.  You should see the set
    up he has.  High up on a cabinet as far out of the rain as I can
    get it is a cardboard box covered on the outside by a white kitchen
    garbage bag I've taped into place around it.  On top of that is a
    red plastic thing that fits over the top of the box (had to add this
    as water was making the top of the box collapse), then there is a 
    blue nylon jacket with flannel inside on top of that.  Inside the
    box is an old plastic litter box filled with a fuzzy round cat bed
    (Michelle Cantoni made it for Dusty), a couple of flannel squares
    and a towel.  All are arranged for maximum box coverage and warmth.
    (It has been really cold and wet here lately.)  There is also a 
    ruler like piece of wood taped into place to give the cardboard roof
    some support.  His food and water dishes are placed right outside the
    box.  Quite a set up.
    
    Anyway, I try to distract Onyx when I seem him pacing at the glass
    door.  If he gets too nuts I isolate him in the bedroom.  I spray
    him with the water bottle, hiss at him (am I the only one that
    does this?) and say NO! when he gets too aggressive at the door or
    with the other cats.  He hasn't stopped all the behaviors completely
    but he seems to respond much quicker to the NOs and he backs off of
    whatever (or whoever) he is after. 
    
    Good luck.  I hope some of this helps.
    
    Jan

    Re: Dusty's house
    
    Sounds to me like he already has an owner :-)
    

    One way of making a temporary curtain for the glass door (is this a
    sliding glass door?) is to take one of those stretchy type clothes
    lines and attach it to both sides of the door.  Do this around waist
    height.  Take a sheet and fold it in half then hang it over the
    clothesline.  This way here, the bottom half of the glass door will be
    blocked but the top half will still allow light in.  If you block the
    view from the cat's level, it may make a difference.  Another
    suggestion would be to get some type of blind so you can completely
    close off the view but there may be reasons you don't want to do
    that...  Or you could go all out and make something nice out of fabric
    but if all you need is to basically block the viewing/hissing, a
    temporary curtain might do wonders. 

    Cheryl
    (ps - Holly, a 15 pound cat is HUGE?  What does that make my Chubs?  :^)

    A lot of that hugeness might be fur, thickened up as a result
    of the cold.
    

    Believe me I have rescued many many many fat strays!!!!  I have
    been trying to work with one that is living under my porch...and
    it is amazing how big he/she is!!!!   But like Karen said...if they
    live outside it is unbelievable the coat of fur they get!!!
    
    Sandy

    But Sandy, aren't YOU the one that fattened them up so they would LET
    you rescue them? ;-) 8-)
    
    But seriously, I may have a stray outside my house now, (I still am not
    100% sure he doesn't have a home) and he looks fat and sleek, but he
    totally freaked the day he got stuck on my enclosed porch. He climbed
    the walls (literally) trying to get out. This leads me to believe he's
    not a people cat. I can't get close enough to him to see if he's a
    whole male or not yet.
    
    Yonee

    
    
    I'll put some tape on  the door.  (I already have some verticle blinds
    and the cats just go behind them to look out the window.)  I haven't
    seen the cat in a few days now but I'll start with the food this
    weekend.  Thanks!
    
    Rachael
    

    Yonee...your right!!  My stray kitties are fed very well!!!!! 
    
    Rachael...if you do start with food for the kitty...he will probably
    stick around even more.   This is great if your intention is to rescue
    him, neuter him and find him a new home....but once you start with
    the food...they always hang around!!  But...I'm sure he is probably
    starving too!!
    
    Good luck...
    
    Sandy

    Feed him, but leave the food out on your neighbor's porch, not your
    own.  Hehheh!  (sorry, it's Friday!)

    
    
    Well, no sign of the cat.  I didn't put food out yet cause I haven't
    seen him. (I really don't want to fee cats who already have homes.)
    My intention in feeding him is indeed to catch him and get a look - 
    see if he's fixed, see if he's healthy and see if anybody knows him.
    The problem in my neighborhood is that there are many many yellow cats,
    about 9 that I personally know.
    
    Thought I'd update you all.  Since the cat hasn't returned, I'm not
    finding any new scratch marks on my cats and they aren't banging into
    the door.  
    
    Rachael
    

    Not sure if this is a dominance thing, or if I need to intervene.
    
    The scenario - Spike is a neutered male, large.  Brutus is a new
    addition, recently neutered.  Spike has been with us for 2 years, and
    was a stray for several years before that. Brutus has been a stray for
    about 9 months, recently neutered and added to the household (3 weeks
    ago).
    Two nights in a row, I was been awakened by a rukus on the
    bed. I found Spike with his teeth around Brutus' throat (not neck,
    but under the chin, right by the throat!).  Brutus is laying on his
    back, not even defending himself.  For the last two nights, I've heard
    Spike coming (he chirps, and I heard him chirping on his merry way from
    one end of the house into the bedroom), he hopped up on the bed where
    Brutus was SOUND ASLEEP, and grabbed him by the throat again!  I don't
    know that much about cats...are they doing the "pecking order" thing,
    or is Spike getting wierd? When I turn on the light and scold him, he
    jumps down, Brutus usually jumps down, and they go off to sleep in
    another room of the house without any further incidents.  What's going
    on here?  Any ideas?
    Sarah

    My 4 neutered males do that to each other all the time. 
    Especially this time of year....it's spring! (8

    Shadow is a neutered male, probably around four years old.  Sammi is a
    spayed female, just about a year old.  Shadow is twice the size of
    Sammi.  Sammi just delights in tormenting Shadow.  For instance, on
    Sunday I was sick in bed and Shadow came in and curled up in the crook
    behind my knees. A few minutes later, Sammi came in, walked down my
    other side, looked over, and prepared to whap Shadow over the head. I
    told her no, so she turned around, walked around my head and went under
    the covers along my back. When Shadow saw the covers moving, he jumped
    up with big eyes staring at this lump.  Sammi slid right into his spot
    in the crook behind my knees, only under the covers. Shadow sat there a
    minute with his head cocked, then his eyes focused in and he attacked
    the lump, scratching and kicking and rolling around. I, not wanting my
    new comforter torn to shreds, told him to stop.  Well, that made him
    really mad, and he rolled over on his side and started kicking that
    back foot at me. (It's not FAIR Mom, Make her Moooove!) I lifted the
    covers and told Sammi to come out. She did, and jumped off the other
    end of the bed.  Shadow moved to the left corner of the bed and curled
    up to sleep. Thirty seconds later, Sammi leaped into the air and put
    Shadow in a headlock.  He of course put her in a headlock.  I fell back
    on my pillow, shaking my head, only to look up to see Shadow with an
    absolutely murderous look on his face backing Sammi to the other side
    of the bed.  I spoke to him and he went back and laid down on the left
    corner, and Sammi laid down at my feet on the right corner.  
    
    There never seems to be serious claws or teeth involved, but Sammi has 
    spent a good portion of her young life running, hissing and shrieking 
    at the top of her lungs with Shadow hot on her trail - usually she's
    provoked him. Is she addicted to the adrenalin rush?  Is it a dominance 
    thing?  I would like nothing better than to see these two bathing each 
    other and cuddling together - do you think it will ever happen? Maybe 
    when she gets older?
    
    Rebecca

    Sounds like a dominance thing to me.  This happens regularly at
    my house between Onyx and Carrie.  Poor Carrie spends half her
    life running from Onyx and the other half with his mouth attached
    to her neck.  Onyx gets scolded, squirted and grabbed by the scruff
    and physically removed from Carrie on a regular basis and still 
    it continues.  I haven't been able to break him off it.  There is
    a good side though.  At night, when it's really dark and quite I
    can sometimes peak over on the corner of the bed or on the floor
    by the bed and see Carrie grooming Onyx or see them curled up
    asleep together.  There is hope.
    
    Jan

    Please help!  I continue to be concerned about Shadow's aggressive
    treatment of Sammi and it seems to be getting worse rather than better.
    He doesn't hurt her, but he really hammers on her, the ruckus is tremendous
    and she spends a good portion of her life running from him and trying to 
    get away from him. (And destroying our furniture in the process, which my 
    husband is none too happy about.) We've lately taken to locking Shadow in 
    the carrier when it gets too bad. The other day I locked him up and went to
    pick her up and she flung her little paws around my neck and clung to me 
    trembling all over. Either she's a very good dramatic actress or she's 
    really scared. But am I being unfair to lock him up all the time (he seems 
    to care not-at-all), am I showing favoritism, am I tampering with a natural
    process (i.e., the top cat thing)?  I don't really know what to do, or
    if there's anything that can be done?  
    
    Thanks for any help you might be able to give us.
    
    Rebecca, Vince, Shadow and Sammi in the war zone
    

    Well, my husband may have found the solution to our problem, and I'll
    go ahead and put it in here in case anyone else is suffering through
    the same thing. I went shopping this weekend, and apparently Vincent
    got fed up with all the fighting, so he took Shadow and Sammi and 
    shut them in the carrier for an hour. I'm glad I wasn't there, because I 
    would never have had the heart to put Sammi, shrieking at the top of
    her lungs, into the carrier with Shadow. But he did and they didn't fight 
    and there's been a truce ever since.
    
    Rebecca

    Just a quick question:
    
    There's a tom cat hanging around my house.  He's very sweet natured to
    me, and is "in love" with my cats (all spayed/neutered). This tom
    doesn't seem to have a problem fighting with the neutered male that
    hangs around outside, or any of the five cats who reside in the house
    that come outside periodically (my landlords spayed/neutered female and
    male, or my two spayed females or my neutered male).  He follows my
    cats around and chirps amorously at them.  I'm not sure if he's just a
    softy for girls (and neutered boys, who I guess registered as "girls"
    :), but he sure likes to follow them around.  
    
    So, he gets along fine.  Never a problem with the various cats of the
    house.  Seems to accept immediately that They belong.  And to me, he's
    quite a sweetheart.  
    
    However, he is the most aggressively territorial tom cat I've seen.
    There are a few other toms which are strays -- if he catches sight of
    them, he immediately rushes over.  He is very much top cat around here,
    he will fight viciously and even spraying the combatants with water
    doesn't help.  Doesn't back down AT ALL, even when the other cat runs.  
    Yesterday, I tried to pry him and another cat apart with a stick (so
    the poor other cat, who definitely wanted to get away, could run). 
    You'd think I was trying to break up two pit bulls.  (Yes, I know not
    to get scratched -- that's why I was using a broken shovel handle.  I
    did not strike the cats, I was using it to pry them off each other.)
    
    
    Even though he "wins" he's always quite beat up -- bites, scratches, 
    etc.  This is all well and good as an example of cat behavior, but a) 
    he makes a lot of noise b) I feel a bit sorry for the other cats and c) 
    when I finally get the warhorse into the vet, I don't want to be paying 
    $$$$ extra to drain absesses, etc.  
    
    When I get the $ and the certificate back from Friends of Animals, I
    plan on taking "Big Head" (his name of hte moment.  He has a very big
    head and neck, but a thin body...) in for shots, and neutering.  I'm
    going to hazard a guess that Big Head is about 2-3 years old.  I know
    that neutering doesn't necessarily eliminate fighting, but I'm
    guessing that it will help tone down the aggression.  
    
    To make a long story shorter -- does anyone have an idea of how long it
    takes for the lack of hormones to tone things down?  How about
    spraying? Big Head does spray.  I'd like to let him in my house when
    he's fixes and such but not if he's going to be squirting on everything 
    -- I don't need the trigger reaction that might start in my cats.  
    And although he doesn't fight with my guys, I'd like to eliminate
    fighting with other cats as much as I can -- I've sort of donned the
    mantle of "Cat Savior" and I *know* how much war wounds can cost at the
    vets since cats seem so prone to abscessing.  (bleh)
    
    
    kim

    DE ja vu....It sounds like we are taking care of the same Stray!!!
    My stray, Capone is a very similar tom.   He won't touch my cats...
    but let another stray walk in the yard and he turns into Mighty
    Warrior!!!   He also sprays everything in site...and loves to follow
    my females around chirping at them!!!
    
    I also plan on capturing Capone before winter...and my guess is
    he'll probably stop fighting...but I'm not sure we'll ever break
    him of his nasty spraying habit!!  Only time will tell.  My plan
    is once he goes to the vets he can spend the next few nights in
    my cellar.  We'll see if he continues to spray down there...because I 
    sure don't need him triggering a spraying contest in my house with 
    all my other cats!!!!
    
    My worse fear with him fighting is not only absesses...but also the
    spreading of diseases such as Feluk and FIV.    
    
    Let me know how you make out....
    
    Sandy

    Ditto. Napoleon is EXACTLY the same! 
    Shy, almost scared of my own cats (Rosie is so timid, it's quite a
    novelty for her!), but the most vicious spitfire with anyone else who
    dares to come into HIS territory. I did have a bad problem with him
    spraying, but finally caught him a few weeks ago and took him, loudly
    protesting, to the vet.
    It didn't work at first - a week later a poor little manx cat was
    foolish to turn up in the garden near feeding time. Napoleon was
    lurking...! I sprayed them with water from the hose-pipe to split them
    up (works instantaneously!). 
    However, he has suddenly started to look better cared for. I have found
    him cleaning himself (he never did it before) and the fights are much
    less frequent. He looks like a cat now. Jimmy even attacked him the
    other day (new kitten, bad mood) and he backed off. 
    I don't think it completely stops them fighting, though. My friend has
    a neutered tom (another stray that he took in) and he fights all the
    time - I think it might be that he lives in an area where most of the
    cats are female and/or neutered and he's the biggest cat, therefore Top 
    cat. 
    
    Incidently, if you're planning on catching him, make sure that you're
    well protected! I still have the scars from my battle with Napoleon. 

    Oh, my peeping tom (he really does peep into my windows. Climbs on the
    roof and peers in.  It's kinda cute, until he starts his yowling for
    attention.) is quite easy to catch.  He's quite friendly to me and
    doesn't mind if I pick him up (he squalls a bit).  He was very shy when
    I first saw him, but sheer determination ("I will pet this cat! I will
    pet this cat!") eventually got him to let me pet him.  He growled at
    first, but never, never, NEVER swiped (unlike the other outdoor cat,
    Sam, who'll let you pet him, then suddenly swipe at you, claws out. 
    I've been raked by Sam a couple times).  Anyway, I'm really not worried
    about catching him, I just need to send in the $ for the neuter
    certificate and convince the vet to let me pay in increments for his
    shots and stuff.  I'm almost certain that he'll need some wound
    treatment.
    
    Back to the subject, I was just wondering if anybody has ever seen a
    really aggressive cat calm down after neutering.  I don't mind taking
    care of this warhorse, I just don't want him spraying in my house (he
    *really* wants to come in, that he has made clear) and/or fighting the
    other cats in the neighborhood quite so gung-ho-ishly.
    
    Cheers,
    
    kim

    My former stray Spike is still a fighter.  He's about 9-10 years old,
    has been neutered (he was already neutered when I picked him up as a
    stray 5 years ago).  I just dropped him off yet again for abscess
    surgery!  I guess some cats just don't understand about hormones and
    aggressive tendencies : )
    However, he will tolerate a young cat in his territory - he even
    invited two kittens into his house!  But if an adult cat, male or
    female, neutered or intact, dares to wander into his territory (which
    could be the yard, the street in front, the front lawns across the
    street, depending on his mood), watch out!  If I keep him in at night,
    he doesn't run into any of the 'interlopers'.  He managed to sneak out
    last week - hence the need for surgery today : (
    Good luck with that tom.  If he's young enough, maybe he hasn't learned
    that fighting is "the thing to do"? I wish Spike had skipped that
    lessson...
    Sarah

    Re:  .41
    
    Mac was really aggressive before neutering and he has calmed down 
    quite a bit.  Of course, he's now an indoor only cat and he gets 
    scolded when he gets too out of hand.  Onyx likes to start squabbles
    with him just to get in him into hot water I think.  He still has a 
    lot of aggressive tendencies so if he were still out there on his own 
    (but neutered) I expect he might still be very aggressive.   
    
    Jan

    Have you folks who've taken in strays or had whole toms around before
    neutering them noticed anything that would equate to bursts of
    aggression (unprovoked) towards people that is *not* rabies?
    
    Bob Cat (the tom I've mentioned earlier in this notes) bit me (detailed
    in another note), was quarantined for rabies, did not have them and got
    his rabies and distemper shots.  He chomped me while I was petting him
    -- he was being quite loving at the time.  I figured maybe I touched a
    sore spot.
    
    However, having been home for a few days, twice he's scratched at me
    with his claws out -- one again while I was petting him (he swatted and
    missed) and then attacked my leg while I was walking past him (he was
    being friendly and following me around).  I did not trip over him, kick
    him or brush him, he just turned around raked my leg.  Smarts.  Of
    course, I yelled at him and disciplined him and he did the appropriate
    cat who knows he oughtn't have done that things.  He immediately
    started following me around again and being friendly.
    
    My mom suggested it was a tom cat thing -- sudden little bursts of
    agression, triggered by God knows what.  Since I'm totally unsure of
    Bob Cat ever had a real home prior to becoming friendly with me (he
    used to be quite shy and would flee at people's approach, but gradually
    let me approach closer and closer, and then, a couple months ago,
    decided he wanted to act like a "real" cat and be quite friendly), he
    "claws out/Bite" actions might also be the result of being relatively
    unsocialized and therefore, not having learned what people will
    tolerate and what they won't.  Another cat who had since sort of become
    my landlord's third cat is quite friendly to a point and then will swat
    at you with claws out (for which he is not encouraged to continue).
    This cat is neutered and lives outdoors most of the time.  He seems
    less inclined to swat since I made it quite clear that I wasn't going
    to take that from him.  Bob, though, has now attacked me when I wasn't
    even touching him.  
    
    (it should be noted that I've had a cat do that to me before, but it
    was a singular incident.  Having been bitten by Bob and clawed at
    twice, for no apparant reason, it makes this seem like something to
    watch out for.)
    
    I'm just wondering if this "burst of aggression" is a documented bit of
    undesirable but not unusal cat behavior, or if I have some work ahead
    of me in convincing Bob that he shouldn't bite the hand, or claw the
    legs, of somebody who's prepared to give him a nice home.  My landlord
    doesn't like him very much and would ahve preferred that I not bring
    him back from the vets when he was quarantined, and *I* would prefer to
    be able to trust Bob enough to pet him without wondering "Will I get
    scratched"? 
    
    The other option is to ignore Bob completely, but that strikes me as
    not doing anything to improve the behavior.  
    
    Any input? 
    
    kim

    I had that problem with Mac about the the time that he was neutered.
    The vet decided that he was just one of those cats that was easily
    over stimulated.  She said that neutering would calm him down 
    somewhat but that he may always be easily overstimulated and that
    I need to watch for signs that it was happening and quit petting
    him before it went too far.
    
    So far she's been right on about his behavior.  And, I've learned
    when to quit and get my hand out of range.
    
    Jan

    One of my latest strays (Rio) that I rescued has the same type
    of behaviour.   He will come up to you and want to cuddle and
    the next thing you know he is in "attack mode" biting any part
    of your body.   I have just sat there and Rio has come up and bit
    me on the shoulder, he also attacks feet if you walk by, but then
    he comes up to you purring and rubbing all over you!! 
    
    I do know a little history on Rio and he was an outdoor kitty for
    about one year.  He also was either badly abused by a human or
    got hit by a car because there was a time he had a VERY bad leg
    and limped.  I know he wasn't treated well by humans...and I personally
    feel he just reacts that way because he is always on guard or he
    does it for attention.  I doubt he'll ever change....
    
    So, like Jan...I have learned to "pick-up" on Rio's moods and
    normally can tell when I'm going to get attacked so I just walk
    away.  He just gets this "look"....eyes wide, ears semi-back, and
    his body starts to have weird moves!! (it's hard to explain!!)
    If I walk away....he usually comes running up to me and begs to
    be petted.   I do notice that if I pat his backside...that can easily
    turn him into his attack mode, much more then if I was patting his
    head!   We have had his backside checked by a vet...and then could
    find nothing wrong.  BUT..it makes me wonder if there is some pain
    and that might be causing his moods.
    
    So...I would just start watching your cats behaviour and see if you can
    determine if anything in particular gets him going and then learn
    to know when the attackes are coming on...before he gets you!!
    
    Keep us posted...
    
    Sandy  

    However, it's not ALWAYS the up-bringing that provokes this type of
    behavior.  MONDO is a good example.  He was born at my house, was NEVER
    abused, and never was outside.  I've got scars on my arms like you
    wouldn't believe from him biting me.  Bites where I should have had
    stitches, but the doctor refused to stitch a cat bite.
    
    MONDO is a little over a year old now and was neutered 3 months ago. 
    He hasn't bitten me since then (I'm also very leary of him), however I
    still have to keep him in a separate room from my other cats because
    he'll still attack Tabitha or PITA whenever he sees them.  I'm going to
    talk to the vet to see what else we can do to get him calmed down a bit
    more.  Who knows.
    
    If your cat isn't neutered, do it right away.  It may change his
    disposition a bit and at least he MAY not bite you for no reason.  Jan
    is right, though .. some cats just get overstimulated and will bite
    then.  I'm VERY cautious of Mondo when I pet him and at the first sign
    of him being over stimulated, I stop.
    
    Holly
    

    Thanks for the input. 
    
    Since Bob attacked my legs when I was walking around the backyard (did
    not even touch him), it's a bit tricky to determine when his mood
    strikes.  He's quite fast about changing, I've been able to perceive no
    warning signs in the three ocassions this has happened so far.  I'm
    certainly not going to avoid walking around in the back yard for fear
    of upsetting him.  
    
    Anyway:
    
    He'll be getting neutered "soon", which is when I have the money to
    send off to Friends of Animals.  It's only $25.00 yes, but $$ is tight
    at the moment and the $136.00 I just spend on his kinda bumped out the
    extra $25.00. :)  Hopefully, that will remedy the behavior.
    
    Cheers,
    
    kim

    Kim,
    
    My cat Shadow used to do something similar - he was a stray between two
    and three years old when he came to live with us - had been abandoned
    and on his own for at least a year. He was already neutered and litter
    box trained - he had definitely belonged to someone. He was very
    friendly, rubbing against the legs, etc., but also very wary and
    aggressive, smacking us and snapping at us (I began to think I knew
    why no one had adopted him yet).  His most startling habit was that he 
    would run and attack our legs - me mostly, once or twice on my husband 
    convinced him that wasn't a good idea. I might be walking past or even 
    innocently standing putting my makeup on in the morning and all of a 
    sudden he'd attack my leg, with claws and teeth and ears back.  I finally 
    reached my level of tolerance for this and we had "words" but I also think 
    that time helped. He still is not a love bug unless it's his idea. 
    Otherwise, if we pet him it turns into a biting, kicking "play" session, 
    which can get painful for us if we don't pay attention to see what his 
    mood is. I don't think BobCat's behavior is necessarily unusual, and it may
    improve with time and certainly as suggested, as you become more and
    more familiar with his ways. I would be inclined to discourage those
    flash (or is that slash?) "attacks" though - if they're anything akin
    to what I experienced with Shadow (who I've decided, is just an
    aggressive kind of guy).
    
    Rebecca
    

    We have/had 2 neutered males that would both "attack" as part of their
    behavior, not due to illness.
    
    One of the cats we have now, Merlin, will go into attack mode every
    once in a while. We've had him since he was a little kitten (probably
    younger than 6 weeks), but he was a "rescue" so don't know if those
    first few weeks of his life still overshadow 9 years of pampered
    living. Most of the time he loves to cuddle and will sit on your lap
    for hours, purring away. He sleeps with us, follows us from room to
    room, very loving. Then he has his "devil" moods where he "attacks" at
    random. He will hiss and hit at non-family members, even ones he knows
    very well, except those that feed him.
    
    If he's had enough petting, he'll let you know by grabbing your hand or
    arm in his teeth, but not biting. If you still don't get the message,
    then he may grab you with his paws (without claws or just a little
    claw). By then, we've gotten the message.
    
    If he thinks he should be fed more before we go upstairs to bed, he
    will actually run ahead of you, lay on the stairs and when your legs
    come in range, will become a "kitty anklet" - sometimes using claws. If
    you try to walk by and ignore him, you usually end up getting
    scratched. If you stop of the stairs and talk to him, usually a "don't
    even think about it" he will let you go by. My feeling is he just wants
    to make sure you notice he's upset.
    
    He will also get into moods where he must have pent up energy or
    something because he either attacks us or the other cat. Last night was
    one of those times - his eyes dilate, he crouches in the "pre-strike"
    position - these signs mean we need to watch ourselves. He can be
    diffused by giving him something to chase, such as a ribbon (long
    ribbon so you're out of range!) or something else that drags. If you
    watch him, you can usually get some clue about what's going to happen,
    but every once in a while we getting out the first aid creme to repair
    something.
    
    The first cat we owned was a neutered male about 3 years old. He came
    from a situation where the female humans didn't like cats and didn't
    treat him well. So, he was fine with guys, but would attack the legs of
    any/all females that might be around, including me, without
    provocation. You'd be sitting there and all of a sudden have a cat
    biting or clawing your leg. It was not a fun summer!It took about a
    year to convince him not to do that - with lots of attention and some
    stern words. And he did mellow out to anyone who fed him. Never
    bothered any of the guys.
    
    So - yes, cats without being sick can be aggressive. I read that
    flighty or aggressive behavior can be a sign of poor nutrition. Any one
    else read that and have any suggestions? Mine get fed Iams/Science Diet
    type crackers (with some Friskies/Nine Lives mixed in) and Friskie
    Buffet. They've always had good checkups and have maintained their
    weight for past 8 years. But, as I've been changing my diet away from
    processed food, I'm wondering if I should do that for them.
    
    Anyway- Johnson's First Aid Creme works very well in keeping cat
    scratches from getting infected.
    
    janetb.