Conference misery::feline

    Great job on helping this baby...so happy you caught her!!!   
    
    The bad news is that most of the no-kill shelters are truly
    at their maximum number of cats...and you will probably be on
    a waiting list.   If the shelter is not a no-kill shelter...
    the kitty will probably euthanized immediately.   
    
    If kitty tests positive...well there are certain shelters that
    do Board Positive Feluk cats...but again it's very difficult
    to place a cat in one of these shelters.   If the kitty tests
    negative and is a TRUE feral (hates humans and has a look to
    kill...vs a scared look) you might consider fixing it,give shots
    and return it to the wild or finding a barn that he can seek
    shelter.   Unless of course....you are willing to spend alot
    of time with her to make her learn to love again and trust humans.
    There is nothing more rewarding to gain the trust of a feral...
    but it takes alot of time, love and patience.   I have two x-ferals
    and they are my most loving cats....but it took almost 2 years
    to gain their full trust.   
    
    Do you have a room that you could confine this kitty to?  It
    might help if you started working with her to find out if she
    is just scared...or if she is a true feral.   Place the kitty
    in her own room with water, food, litterbox, toys....and try
    to spend as much time as you possibly can with her.   Just
    sit on the floor, talk very softly, and offer food.  
    
    Good luck...and keep us posted.   If you want to discuss further
    with me...please feel free to send me mail.  I have a some experience
    working with true ferals...and strays!!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    Just be very patient with her.  I'm assuming you caught the pregnant
    female right?
    
    Just give her plenty of food and water, talking to her the whole time
    in a nice calm reassuring voice.  Make her comfortable in the cage and
    maybe even give her a few toys.  It takes a lot of time and patience to
    get a truly feral cat to believe and trust in you.  However when they
    do turn around they are absolute love bugs.  The reward of their trust
    and affection is worth ten times what you have to go through sometimes.
    
    Every cat is different.  She may allow you to pet her in a couple of
    weeks if she isn't a true feral or it may take years.
    
    Good luck.
    
    If you need any help just write.
    
    Kim  (Morticia, Alpo, Adelaide, and Misha)

    Hi Jean-
    
    We caught over 20 males and females.  Some were tame enough and decided
    to hang out at the barn....these kitties probably were house pets at
    one time.  I think there are 5 residents now.  We occasionally get a new
    one, and that kitty is caught and neutered ASAP, and then returned to 
    the wild.  We also are doing the rabies shots now too for all resident
    and any new kitties before returning to the wild.
    
    Some of the ones that we returned never came back, others we see from
    time to time.  We strongly believe that if we tried to tame and place
    all of these cats, we would continue to be inundated with new cats. 
    Returning them neutered eliminates new litters, and they probably keep 
    others from entering their territory.  
    
    Good luck, it's rewarding, and time and $$ consuming.....but we had
    fun.
    
    Michele                                     

    Eight years ago I caught a feral cat and she has never warmed up to
    humans - in fact- she hates to be touched by us. I know not all
    ferals react this way - but I'm not sure how to define which ones
    will react positively to people and which ones will remain wild.
    As much as I would like to think that love, attention and kindness
    will change a feral cat, the reality is-  that is not always the case.
    
    I keep my feral because she gets good food, clean water, her yearly
    shots, etc, plus she has the companionship of other cats which she
    likes. She never goes outside and never expresses an interest to do
    so.   Looking back - I probably should have neutered her and released 
    her back to the wild. Now after 8 years of being in a house I am not
    sure she could survive in the wild. So she stays with me and sleeps in
    the sun and looks content except for people- including me - whom she
    dislikes.  She isn't a pet - she is co-habitator in my home.
    
    You have to have alot of patience with ferals and you cannot expect
    superlative results even tho you put in super-human efforts- you
     might get the results you wish - lots of pople do, but it doesn't
    always  happen that way.
    
    If she is FeLV+ - I would recommend euthanizing her. The stress of
    having to react with humans in a new way of life can make the disease
    active. It would be difficult to find a shelter who would take in
    a FeLV+ cat who is feral to boot. They don'thave enough time and
    resources to devote to a cat who probably will never be placed anyway-
    there are so many healthy tame ones needing homes.
    
    You might see how this cat acts with you after a few weeks and make a 
    decision - but it's a tough one to call. It's just so much easier 
    when a cat shows up who obviously likes people and wants a home.
    (But then those folks have a whole new set of problems).
    
    Good luck - hope she turns out FeLV- and when given a chance- decides
    that humans are okay afterall.
    PAt
                         

    
    I've already looked at notes 150, 219 and 339 (dir/tit=feral) but I 
    have a couple of question.  (I'm taking "Little Scruff" in Carol 
    Weston's note (31.something) and I've never had a feral cat/kitten
    before) 
    
    - is there a way to tell if they're truly feral or just people-shy?
    - signs to look for
    - will they run away if they seem to want to be out and tug at your
      heart-strings until you let them
    - will my two current kitties treat a feral kitty differently than 
      they would a strange kitty
    - will my kitties run away if I let them out upon the arrival of 
      their new playmate
    - any other comments/advice appreciated
    
    (Snoopy and Diesel are both approx 1-yr old males, neutered about 
    two weeks ago - not litter-mates but grew up/get along together)
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Adrienne
    

    I would not let any of your cats out when introducing a newcomer,
    nor would I let the newcomer out.  It's a recipe for losing a cat.
    
    Little Scruff might howl at the door for a couple of weeks, but he'll
    adjust to being an indoor cat.
    
    How great that you're giving this baby a home.  The introductions could
    range from instant love to a couple of weeks of the air turning blue to
    a couple of months of the air turning blue. Hang in there and they'll
    adjust eventually, and one day you'll find them in a heap washing each
    other.
    

    Hi....so happy your taking little Scruff.  I know Carol had been
    working with her ferals so they would atleast come to her.  Ask
    her about Little Scruff to find out if he is truly wild or just
    very shy.
    
    It is my opinion that feral cats seem to get along great with
    other cats.   I believe they live together in the wilderness..
    and learn do depend on each other for warmth.   It's people
    that he might have a hard time with...and it will take alot
    of patience for you.  Your going to want to pick him up and hug...
    but he might not want any part of that for awhile.   But believe
    me in the end you will have a wonderful loyal companion!!
    
    I also suggested that before you introduce the new baby in the
    family that you have a full check-up at the vets.  Feral kitties
    normally have worms....so you would want to resolve that problem
    before it is spread to your own cats...and ensure there are no
    other diseases.
    
    I would definitely keep "little Scruff" in for quite some time...
    because feral cats have a tendency to run off!!  
    
    My guess is the cats will all get along fine...but Little Scruff
    might run away from you for awhile.
    
    Please keep us posted........and good luck!!
    
    Sandy  

    I talked to Carol about so many of her kitties that I can't keep 
    them straight but Little Scruff is the one she would have kept 
    if she'd had a choice -- I think she said she can pick him up
    for a couple of minutes at a time whereas the others she can 
    only pet or can't even get near.  
    
    You all sound so optimistic!  That's a good sign.  I'll relegate
    Little Scruff to a room of his own for a while and gradually 
    introduce him to Diesel and Snoopy and Mr. Bunny (not a cat, a bunny)
    I'll try and keep Diesel and Snoopy in the house or on the porch
    (where they can get air but can't get away) for at least a week -- 
    they are true outdoor kitties although they never go far (I have 
    a large lot bordered by woods) and always come back each night
    if not much sooner.

    I would keep the new kitty completely separated from your own
    cats for a couple of weeks to make sure he's not carrying any
    colds/diseases that have not shown up yet.  Then introduce them
    gradually.
    
    I have a formerly feral feline.  He's great with the other cats
    and fine with me.  We only have a problem with someone visits.
    He becomes invisible then gradually comes out to see what's going
    on.  If the person moves too quickly (or sometimes if he/she moves
    at all) Onyx becomes a streak of shiney black fur as he makes a
    beeline for the closet or under the bed to hide.  He's very shy
    with new people.  He's coming around though.  It only took two 
    visits before I found him plopped down in Dean's lap as if he'd
    known him forever.
    
    Jan

	I have one of Carol's former strays, Stripe -- it has been
	about two years since we got him and he is still very afraid
	of people.  But he fit right in with all our other cats, 
	they all seemed to like him and he likes them as well.  He
	was a "genuine" feral cat, having been born to a stray mom
	in Carol's neighborhood.  He is strictly indoor-only and 
	doesn't seem to mind a bit, never did object really.  I think
	many strays/ferals think of "indoors" as safe, warm and near a
	constant source of food while "outdoors" means cold, lonely and
	scared.

	He is wonderfully loving in the morning before "breakfast has 
	been served" and has just gotten to the point that we can pet 
	him in the cattery at other times of the day.  But we have never 
	yet been able to pet him or get close while he is in the "people" 
	part of the house, just in the cattery.  This doesn't mean your 
	future cat will be this way and we still love Stripe and are glad 
	we adopted him, just something to be prepared for -- depending on 
	the cat he may never become very friendly.

	Good luck, 


	Jan

    Three of my four cats were formerly feral.  They all got to the point where
    they were totally comfortable with me, but vanished into thin air when
    anyone else appeared.
    

    
    Well, Scruffles (formerly Little Scruff) has joined my household in 
    better fashion than I expected.  
    
    She was fine when Carol put her in the cat-carrier and although she
    seemed indignant that this kind lady would have put her in a "cage", 
    she seemed to be winking at Carol - although she hissed when she 
    tried to remove the food dish from the carrier. 
    
    She didn't make a peep all the way home which surprised me as I have
    a full-size bronco and it's not the quietest ride.  I took her inside
    and downstairs where it's warmer (woodstove-heated house) and talked
    to her for a while.  At one point, I opened the door of the carrier to 
    see if I could pet her and she flew out of the carrier into the first 
    available corner.  To make a long story short, after much coaxing 
    and cajoling and one nasty bite on Mommy's hand, she was removed to 
    "her" room with gloved hands.  She would hiss and spit at the sight
    of anyone and her ears appeared to be permanently glued down to her 
    head.  I gave her a stuffed animal and some food/water and a blanket
    to sleep on and left her alone --  (That was all on Friday) -- Since 
    then she's calmed down immensely.  She now allows me to pick her up, 
    pushes her head against my hand for scratches, will eat out of my 
    hand, uses her litter box and sits in the window meowing if I don't
    come in every half-hour or so to visit.  She is almost as calm 
    around my boyfriend although his voice seems to scare her a little. 
    She also doesn't mind my other kitties although I haven't actually
    let them near each other.  A glimpse from afar was enough to send
    Snoopy and Diesel hissing and running -- Scruffles just looked 
    pleased with herself ;-)  I'm gradually introducing her to one 
    more room and I think she's going to be fine (crossed paws here)
    My only concern is that she'll never lose her habit of hiding 
    under things unless you literally pick her up and put her in your
    lap.  She will stay in my lap without me holding on to her once 
    I get her there -- but without human intervention, she prefers to 
    remain hidden. 
    
    Thanks to all who told me it was worth the effort -- still a long way
    to got but she is an absolutely beautiful kitty, even if I am a little 
    biased. 
    
    Adrienne

    It sounds like she's making great progress.  Regarding the hiding, she
    just needs a little more time to adjust; she'll come 'round.

    Yes, it took Sweetie maybe two weeks before he stopped hiding behind the
    refrigerator at the slightest fast motion, etc.
    

I'm mostly a read only in this conference, but have responded a couple of times
in the past.  I have Sabrina (14), a Tonkinese; Kabuki (4), a lynxpoint siamese,
and a new addition as of yesterday.  This summer I noticed a gorgeous siamese
kitten running around outside, it looked to be about 5 or 6 weeks old.  I was
quite upset that someone would let a kitten this young out.  Three weeks ago I
saw the same kitten, several times larger. It sat about 5 feet away from me, but
would allow me to get no closer, and kept watching me constantly.  I asked my
neighbors about the kitten, the mother cat and two siblings. They said they're
wild cats that lives in the barn, and that a woman was trying to catch the
siamese.  I've been feeding them, and also borrowed a have a hart trap from a
co-worker.  One night when I put the food out, I sat in my kitchen with the
lights out, to see who would come eat it.  I didn't put the trap out since I 
didn't want to catch anything but this kitten.  About 10 minutes later, I see
something white coming through the fence (I have three spot lights turned on so
I can see if anything comes out), but it turned out to be an opposum. He had his
fill, and waddled away quite happily.  The mother cat was watching him eat, and 
they sniffed each other as he left.  Two more weeks went by, and I didn't see 
the kitty, but momma cat was comng by every or every other day for food.  I now
put food out only when I see her waiting for it.  

Yesterday morning, around 6 a.m. I was getting in my car, and I noticed some-
thing white in the back of the yard.  It wasn't quite light out, and I went to 
see if it was the kitty or the possum.  It was the kitty!!  The momma and sib
were there too, so I went back inside and got food for them.  Then I got the
trap.  15 minutes later I had succeeded in trapping the cat I was after!
He threw himself against the trap, very upset- naturally.  I brought the trap
into the porch, and went downstairs to bring up my cat carrier.  I opened the 
door to the cat carrier, then put the trap close to it and opened that door.
Luckily the kitty went into the carrier.  I had a towel and a bit of food in 
there with him, and he sat quietly.  Two hours later the vets opened, and I got
an appointment for 10:45.  At 9 I went looking for a kennel that would allow
the cat room enough for food, a litter box, a towel and a little teddy bear.

The cat was definitely wild at the doctors.  I warned them that he had never 
been touched by human hands before.  He didn't attack, but defended himself by
biting the leather gloves when they reached in the carrier to pull him out.  He
got loose and was bouncing off the walls, cleared the surfaces off all the 
counters, and hit his head on the ceiling.  They drew blood and vaccinated him
for rabies and distemper.  The Dr. told me that as cruel as it sounds, if he
turns up positive for FeLV or Aids, I should put him down.  I'm going to pray
this doesn't happen.

When we got home, I brought him up to his very own room where I had the kennel 
all set up and waiting.  I opened the doors and put the two cages close to
each other.  Well, this time he didn't want to go.  I finally shook him out of 
the carrier, and he went straight to the litter box.  He hasn't moved out of
the litter box!  I covered the cage on top and three sides with a satin sheet
so he would feel more protected.  Throughout the day I kept going in a sitting
next to him, talking to him.  Last night I petted his back through the cage,
he didn't snap at me or growl.

This morning I went in to his room, and he had pulled the sheet into his litter
box, and was sitting on top of it.  His food and water were spilled all over.
I pulled the sheet out, and tried to get him out of the litter box so I could
change it, he had used it - no solids.  I can't get him out of the litter box!
I did reach in and pet his back, just a few stroke and he sat calmly!!

When I get home today, I'm planning on taking him in his cage out of that room
so I can vacuum all the litter, then I'll put a drop cloth down and put the cage
on top of it.  I now have a pair of thick gloves, and am going to try to move 
him out of the litter box so I can clean it.  I also think I should get a water
bottle to hang on his kennel.

Hopefully in a couple of days I can go in the room with him, and open the door 
to his cage so he can run around the room.  I don't know how I'll get him back
in, if he even comes out.  He may prefer the security of his cage until he gets
more used to me.  

I'm encouraged that he has let me touch him, and he looks straight into my eyes
and keeps his ears straight up.  I have decided to call him Gypsy!

My other two cats are acting a bit touchy, but I'm trying to give them extra
attention.  I'll continue looking for the rest of his family to feed outside,
since they have the barn to live in I hope they'll make it.

Wish me luck!  I one days time, I've already spent $120 on this little wild
animal...in a month or so he should be neutered.  I just couldn't bear to see
this little fella out there ...

Laura

    Nice going, Laura!  Sounds like you are very adept at rescuing ferals. 
    Amazing how such tiny little kittens can be so ferocious!
    
    I agree that you should keep him in the kennel until he gets more used
    to you.  If you do allow him to run around the room, just by going in
    there several times a day and talking to him, or simply sitting there
    doing your business or watching TV, will help him adjust.
    
    My heart always breaks when dealing with a feral cat because there is
    no way you can convince them that what you are doing is for their own
    good in the long run.  Sooner or later though, they realize it
    themselves!
    
    Please keep us posted.  I love reading stories like this.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Laura...great job on the rescue!!!  You were pretty lucky that he
    walked from the trap to the carrier...I'm surprised he didn't take
    the opportunity to bolt!!!
    
    This is dejavu for me dealing with the ferals at our shelter.  A
    few suggestions:::
    
      . leave him in the cage because it will be much easier to work
        with him.  Once he has freedom of the entire room...he will hide
        under something and make it impossible to go near.  Keep him
        in the cage until he is "workable".
    
      . All ferals love to hide in boxes...and since your litterbox is
        the only box in the cage he will continue to use that as his
        shelter.  IS it possible to put another small box or round bed
        in the cage so he can hide in that one...and use the litterbox
        as he should!!!!
    
      . Continue to talk softly, feed him treats from you hand if possible,
        and every opportunity you get...try to pat him.   Once you gain
        a little faith...try having him lap baby food from your finger.
       
      . Also try a little catnip...I've gotten to many ferals/strays by 
        drugging them with catnip!!!
    
      . The best time to try and approach/work with him...is when he
        is hungry!!!  You'll notice once his belly is full...he'll 
        totally ignore you!!!
    
      . For my cage...I bought a plastic cup that hangs on the cage;
        therefore it can't be spilled as easy.  I think the cup is
        actually used for caged rabbits...but it works well.
    
    Please keep us posted.....just remember patience...patience...
    patience is the key along with lots of love!!   Once you get to him..
    you will probably find him to be your most loving kitty.
    
    Sandy
    
    
    

Thanks for the quick advice Sandy and Roberta!

Sandy, I can get a small box in there, I'll try that and put the satin sheet
inside.  It won't give him much room to move around in, but he should like
it! I'll put the satin sheet inside, that should make him happy!

Time for me to go home!!!  I'll write more tomorrow!

Laura

Well, I put the cardboard box in with Gypsy, and after about an hour he went in
and decided he liked it!  I was worried because he hadn't eaten, so I defrosted
some cooked turkey I had in the freezer.  He didn't touch it while I was in the
room, but when I visited him later the turkey was all gone, so I gave him some
more!  I opened the top of the cage and actually petted the whole length of his
body, just until he started to turn his head...not very long, but it's a start!
I also put a radio in the room with him, and a small light that I'll keep on
during my waking hours so he's not in total darkness for 14 hours a day!


The vet called to confirm negative readings on his blood tests!  That was great
news.

Sometime during the evening, his attitude changed from scared to mad.  Now he
hisses at me whenever I come in the room, and his ears are flattening slightly.
Sighhhhhhhh...I won't try reaching in the cage to pet him again, I think I was
just lucky yesterday.

I'd like to let my cats in the room (with Gypsy in his cage) so they can start
getting accustomed to each other.  Would it be better to let Gypsy explore the
room first, out of his cage?  I'll only let them get together when I'm there to
supervise.  How long should I wait before I leave the room to the door open
while I go to work, or should I just play this by ear?

Thanks for the help!!

Laura

    Laura...great news on the blood tests...that's one battle you one so
    far!!
    
    Don't you just love that "MAD" look!!!  Depending on his actual 
    personality...it is hard for me to sit here and say "try 
    patting him and see what happens".  I normally can sense if
    this cat is SO mad that I'll lose a finger...or just mad
    that he doesn't want to be bothered.  The more you work
    with him...you'll be able to sense how far he will let you go
    on a daily basis!!
    
    I don't see a problem keeping the door open to Gypsy's room 
    when your around.  It might be good for Gypsy to see other
    cats (I'm sure he likes cats oppose to humans).  It also 
    wouldn't hurt if you let Gypsy watch you hold a cat and
    show it love.  (maybe he'll get the hint that your there to
    help!!)
    
    Like I said...your best chance to get to him is when he is
    very HUNGRY...but once his belly is full you'll see a
    different personality (peed off) because he won't need you!!!
    
    If trying to pat him does not work after awhile....have Yonee
    tell you about how she works with the feral cats at the 
    Framingham shelter using this "kitty whip".  It's very
    interesting....and I do know she has gotten to some very
    mean ferals!!
    
    Sandy
                 

    Sandy,
    
     Dropping my name, eh? ;-) Actually, this is true. We had a feral cat
    that would literally spit and lunge when he first came to the shelter,
    and in a matter of a couple of months (working Thursday nights, and a
    Sunday now and then) I was petting him down by his bum, and eventually
    petted him on the head, and stroked his entire body! No one at the
    shelter ever thought ANYONE would ever touch this kitty, unless he was
    knocked out! 
    
     If you're interested in the 'wand' method, (it really is buggy whips
    without the snap tassle, but I hate to think of using a 'whip' on a
    kitty! 8-}) I'd be happy to give you some info. It also helps to have a
    fair singing voice. I sang to Shadow while I stroked him. He even had a
    favorite song!
    
     Unfortunately, Shadow somehow injured himself, and when they got him
    to the vet, between the stress of being trapped in the carrier, carted
    off to the vet, and then knocked out so the vet could touch him, his
    little heart gave out during surgery, and he is no longer with me. I'm
    still not over it, and I can't sing his song without crying anymore,
    but, in any case, the Tellington Touch method using the wands, does
    seem to make a big difference. I haven't had results quite as good,
    using the hand/circle method, but I keep trying! ;-)
    
    Yonee (who petted her stray that she has been feeding for a year last
           Saturday! YEEHAW!)
                          

It's funny, the first night I had him I rolled up a stiff piece of paper and
slowly put it in the cage.  Then I scratched him under the chin with it, and
he rubbed up against it, and really seemed to enjoy it!

When I had him on the porch Monday morning in the carrier, I left the door open
so my cats could see him and vice versa.  Then I picked up Buki and hugged him
so Gypsy could see.  Unfortunately Buki got upset having Gypsy there and growled
so I had to put him down!

I guess I leave the door open tonight when I'm in there with him and see what
happens.  I really want to pick him up and cradle him, but know I can't...yet!
Don't know about the singing, I'll try it!  I do talk to him melodically!

Can't wait to get home to him!!

Laura

Yonee,

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience with Shadow.

Laura

    Singing or talking softly really does work.  When I had Happy Cat
    down cellar I use to sit there and sing to him.  Of course he got
    me so mad...I use to make up songs with swears in them...but I
    would sing them ever so softly. 
    
       Happy Cats a %$$##@@@##$$ and I love Happy Cat.  Get your *&^&^%
       off the rafters and come give me a hug.  Oh I love Happy cat!!!
    
    Hey...I had fun!!!  Sandy  

Sounds like me sweetly saying to Buki "You're such a rotten little cat!!!"

It'll be easier if I do it the way you did, making up the song...great idea!

Thanks Sandy!

Laura

Thursday night I put together a little "gadget" that may help in helping feral
cats adapt.  I took a cat grooming glove (it's a knit glove with hundreds of
tiny rubber bumps on the palm and bottom of the fingers), stuffed it really well
with polyester fiberfill, and put a 1 x 2 wood stud about 2 ft. long into the
glove in the middle of the stuffing.  Next I secured it by putting a rubber band
around the wrist, and ran a generous bead of craftsmen's goop (a miracle glue
IMO) between the inside of the wrist and the wood.  It took about 20 minutes
to make!  Last night I got to try it out on Gypsy, I couldn't wait to get home 
to see if he liked it!  Of course, first he hissed at it, but once I started
scratching him under the chin he really enjoyed it!  So I petted him with it for
a while, then I held it up next to my hand, hoping he can associate the two
with each other!  He did hiss at it several times, and gave it a quick nip
once, but mostly he put his head down, closed his eyes and loved being petted!

Can't wait to get back to him today!

Laura

    Laura!
    
     What a great idea! Keep up the good work, and the next thing you know,
    you'll have the grooming glove on your hand, and then NO GLOVE!!!!! I
    know you can do it from what we have discussed off line. 
    
     You're doing a great job with Gypsy. Can't wait to meet the little
    guy!
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee

    
>     What a great idea! Keep up the good work, and the next thing you know,
>    you'll have the grooming glove on your hand, and then NO GLOVE!!!!! I
>    know you can do it from what we have discussed off line. 
 
Yonee, that's what I plan on doing with the other glove from the pair!!
   
>     You're doing a great job with Gypsy. Can't wait to meet the little
>    guy!
 
I'm trying!!!  I'm really looking forward to you meeting him!

Hugs,
Lola

He touched me!!!  He won't let me touch him anymore, but he has touched me twice
in the last four days!  Lst night he responded to a toy, very slowly and very
shyly, but he's showing more interest!  He also groomed himself briefly in front
of me for the first time!

I can't believe it!

Lola

    Some people would think your crazy...but most of the people in
    this file KNOW exactly how you feel!!!
    
    There were times I came in from outside crying because I got to
    touch one of my strays.  Of course...tears would put Ernie in a panic
    thinking they bit me and I would just look at him and say "but I
    touched him"!!!
    
    Just think...some day you'll even hug him...
    
    Sandy

    Congratulations! Just keep at him! He'll come around. The funny part is
    that it will most likely be all of a sudden, and so unexpected, that it
    will shock you!
    
    Both Sandy Merritt and I have experienced this. You work with a cat for
    a long time, and seem to be getting nowhere or almost nowhere, and all
    of a sudden one day the thing either rubs against you, or just plain
    lets you pet him! Thus, the tears. ;-) I did the same thing when I
    first touched my shelter kitty Sadow, and when I pet my current stray
    Ferguson. My husband thought I was hurt too!
    
    Just keep imposing your person in his space, a little at a time, and
    one day, you WILL hug him!
    
    Love,
    
     Yonee

    That's great, Laura!  I remember when I was trying to make contact with
    TK, a feral cat who ate Iams off my deck for months.  One morning I sat
    outside with the bowl in my hand.  He was on the stairs yowling at me,
    and I said, "I'm sorry, but you cannot have any food unless you come to
    me to get it."  He hesitated for awhile, then trotted up the steps and
    started rubbing up against me.  It was so unexpected, but we were buds
    from that point on.
    
    Good luck and do keep us posted!!
    

I sure did miss this notesfile!!!  Hope everyone had wonderful holidays.
Just have a minute, but wanted to let everyone know that Gypsy's at the vets
today to be neutered and declawed.  It's hard for me to do this, but I was 
worried about my other cats not being able to defend themselves against him.
I also didn't relish the thought of getting torn up myself.  I'll find it
alot easier to approach him now, with most of my fear of him gone.  He will be
an inside only cat, as all of mine are now.

Hugs,
Laura    

Well, I brought Gypsy home last night, and he's mad but doing O.K.  I also asked
the vet to look in his ears while he was under the anesthesia, and sure enough
he had ear mites.  They told me they treated him with a one time treatment that
kills them and the worms (?) that cause the mites on contact, no more applicat-
ions needed.  Must be some powerful stuff, because they only use it on animals
that can't be handled!  I'm going to give Gypsy a few days to settle down
before I try to pet him, then hopefully we can start becoming friends!  When
I brought Buki into Gypsy's room Sunday night, Gypsy started to slowly walk
over to Buki, nicely, not in a threatening manner.  Unfortunately Buki wanted
nothing to do with him and became extremely upset, but it's good to see that
Gypsy appears to welcome other animals!

I'll keep you posted!!

Hugs,
Laura

Oh boy...Gypsy played with me again last night, and even let me touch his
paws for a minute!!!  Then I got up to give him a treat, and he hissed and
ran away!  He also showed me his belly for the first time, rubbing his back and
head on the floor.  He's starting to relax just a little bit!!

Made my Day!!!!

Lola

    Great news! I knew your patience would come through eventually! Keep up
    the good work!
    
    Yonee

Well, I'm now starting to wonder if I'm going about this all wrong.  When I
bring Buki or Sabrina into Gypsy's room, I see he's very lonely and desperately
wants kitty friends.  Maybe it's cruel of me to keep him confined to one room.
I was hoping I could keep him there until I could carry him to the basement to
show him where the litter box is permanently kept, because I didn't want to have
one on the second floor with the bedrooms.  I also think if I let him loose in 
the house, I'll never see him again.  But I think he'd be happier if he could 
interact with the other two cats.

Maybe it would even help him come around quicker.

Thoughts??  Suggestions?

Thanks!
Laura

Another Gypsy update...

I've been bringing Kabuki (my neutered 4 year old male lynxpoint siamese) in
to see Gypsy every day.  At first he was very upset (Buki), and moanfully 
wailed and hissed the whole time we were in there.  Each day he got a little
quieter.  Gypsy really wants to be his friend, and makes little chirping
noises and rolls on his back submissively.  Last night Buki attacked Gypsy,
very briefly, but alot of yelling and jumped after him.  They're both declawed
so I'm not worried about them getting seriously injured in a quick tassle.
Gypsy was quite upset, and wouldn't come out of his little tent.

I'm wondering if I should keep bringing him in to visit.  I still can't touch 
Gypsy, but he is playing with me frequently and winking at me now!!  Once in a
while I can touch his paw.

Thanks for any advice!
Laura

    Laura...it is my opinion that you should continue with what your
    doing.   Give Gypsy some time with Kabuki because my guess is Gypsy
    would prefer cats over humans...but also try to spend some time with 
    Gypsy alone by playing with him because that is the only way he
    will learn to trust you.
    
    The process is slow...but you have made alot of progress so far!!
    Keep us posted....
    
    Sandy
       

Hi Sandy,
 
This is directly copied from a note I sent to Yonee...Gypsy's made
so much progress in the last two weeks!  He plays with me alot and lets me
get quite close...he almost took a treat right from my fingers (put his nose
right up to it)!  The last two night he has let me scratch him under his chin
with the end of the stick his toy is on, and he really loved it.  He was in
the launcry basket at the time.  When I stoppped, he looked at my hand like it
was a seperate being, and very quickly towards it with his face and paw.  I
pulled away in surprise, and then he did too...I don't know if he wants to bite
me or if he wants to play!  I have to be braver and leave my hand there!!


When I bring Buki in now, he's alot better.  Saturday he went right to the
litter box and used it, and then ate Gypsy's food and drank some of his water.
He wants Gypsy to know he's boss!  Then he went right up to Gypsy to sniff him,
and Gypsy hissed at Buki!  Guess all of Buki's aggressiveness has made Gypsy
a little wary!

Can't wait to see what changes this week brings, I see big differences alot more
quickly now!

Hugs,
Laura

    Great progress, Laura!  It sure does take time, but it's worth it in
    the end.  I am still getting smacked around by JJ, but she does come
    back after smacking me; she definitely wants me to keep my distance
    while she gets to know me.  Sometimes she'll sniff my hand but most of
    the time I get swatted when I reach it out to her.
    
    At least Gypsy is safe in your house though!
    
    -Roberta
    

Roberta,

I've been looking for updates on JJ!!!  Guess she's still outside, but I know
you're taking good care of her!

Laura    

Well, Gypsy had been getting a little friendlier, and playing a whole lot more,
making "squishy eyes" at me quite frequently.  In the last several days he has
started limping, and is very hostile again.  I called Central Animal Hospital,
and they told me to just bring him over (easier said than done) whenever I can
catch him.

I hope it's nothing serious.

Hugs,
Laura

    Laura....  Easier said then done...how true!!  Good luck in trying
    to get him to the vets...and I hope all is okay.   He could have just
    twisted his leg during his exercise.....
    
    Keep us posted..
    
    Sandy

I got Gypsy into the carrier with hardly a problem!!  Luckily he was in the
laundry basket, and I slowly brought it up to the door in the carrier, put
the two together, and gently shook it.  Along with much hissing and growling,
Gypsy reluctantly went into the carrier.  Dr. Butler removed his sutures, along
with the help of Melissa (hopefully I got her name right), who bravely grabbed 
Gypsy by the scruff of the neck after they shook him out of the carrier.  Then 
they rolled up a towel and held it around his head so he couldn't bite.  I think
he behaved quite well.  His paws are very well healed, but she thinks maybe the
sutures were irritating him.  If he doesn't stop limping in a few days, she said
he might have twisted something, in which case I should bring him in for xrays
and they'd have to put him out for that.  He looked like he was moving a little
better today, but still moves while cowering while I'm in the room.  Poor little
guy, he's still so scared!

Buki wants to go in with me every day now, and last night he came in and put his
paws up on the laundry basket.  Gypsy was inside...when Buki got too close for
comfort, Gypsy hissed, and for once Buki stepped away.  At least he didn't 
jump on Gypsy and nip him like before!

That's all for now!

Hugs,
Laura

Wow!!  I actually got to pet Gypsy yesterday for a couple of seconds!  He
has changed this last week though, more hissing and not playing nearly as much.
His limping is almost gone, but he still walks funny, crouching and walking
at the same time!

I snuck the petting in while I was giving him a couple of bonkers, he just loves
those!  When he finished chewing, he started hissing at me!!  Gotta love him!!

    Wow, Laura, that is a major milestone!  I know how excited we cat
    lovers can get over stuff like that.
    
    See my new note regarding JJ -- I think she and Gypsy would make great
    buddies!  Want another cat?  :^)

Hey Roberta, why don't we just trade cats for a while..after you catch JJ!!
Maybe Gypsy would just run into your arms and declare you his soul mate!!

Hugs,
Lola

Last night Gypsy came over to me for the first time!!!  I held a grape up
for him to see, and he came over to sniff it!!!!  Of course he wouldn't let me
touch him, but I still think it's going in the right direction!!

The outside strays have been eating more than normal for the last couple of days
Maybe they can feel the storm approaching, or maybe there are even more of them
now!

Hugs,
Laura

    Great news, Laura!  Gypsy might be one of those cats will only grow to
    tolerate human contact but not really enjoy it.  It is so hard for cats
    to trust humans when they haven't been handled the first few months of
    their life.  I really believe it has more to do with each individual
    cat versus how hard you work at it.  Some melt at the first kind touch;
    others continue to be overly cautious.
    
    Is Gypsy still in the cage?  Sometimes the stress of being caged adds
    to the stress of getting used to humans.  I always let my formal ferals
    have the run of the house after they were pronounced with a clean bill
    of health from the vet.  Sure they'd hide and freak at every single
    noise (One even lived in the basement for a month and would only come
    up at night to investigate when we were sleeping.  If I got up to go to
    the bathroom and saw him, he'd scoot back downstairs in a hurry!) but
    because they were doing things on their own terms, they came around
    faster.  Gypsy may be resenting you if he's still caged or confined to
    only one area.
    
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, since I didn't go back and review your
    updates prior to writing this!
    
    -Roberta
    

Roberta,

Gypsy was only in the cage for three days.  Since than, he's been in a 10'x13'
bedroom, confined.  I've thought about giving him free run of the house, but was
told I'd never see him again, that he's hide all the time.  I've also been 
trying to get Buki and Gypsy accustomed to each other.  Buki keeps jumping on
Gypsy and biting him...  I was hoping to pick Gypsy up and show him where the
litterbox is in the basement, because I didn't want to have one on the second
floor where the bedrooms are.  I know the other two cats will start using that
one too if I have them in both locations.  I'm sure he'd find the food in the
kitchen.

Hugs,
Laura

Saturday I decided to open Gypsy's room door and give him the run of the house.
It was kinda funny, he didn't come out!  I kept going up and checking on him,
and found Buki quietly sitting about 5' away from him.  Then there was a 2
second very loud scream later on, but no more commotion after that.  At 2 a.m.
I was up and checked again, and he was still in there!  Last evening when I
was sitting talking to him, I noticed a puncture mark on his flank.  He had been
licking it, so his fur was parted and I could see it clearly.  He kept looking 
at the open door apprehensively, and was quite distracted when Buki came in.
The door was open all day, but he didn't leave, so I guess he's content there.
No more fighting, but I closed the door again today, I don't think it's a good
idea to keep it open when I leave the house.  Poor guy, he doesn't try to defend
himself at all against Buki, just runs away when he can. 

Laura

    Laura, I agree.  When you're not there to play referee, the door should
    be closed.  When you are there, Gypsy's curiousity will get the best of
    him and he'll start to explore.  Herbie wouldn't come up from the
    basement until we were sleeping.  It took him almost a month, maybe
    more, to be completely comfortable exploring the house during daylight
    hours, but several months later before he wouldn't use the basement as
    a crutch when something frightened him.  Now he could really care less
    about anything except being loved and fed... err, fed and loved I mean!!
    
    Your patience has been infinite so far, and it will pay off soon,
    believe me!
    
    -Roberta
    

Well, Gypsy ventured out of his room last night!  When I went up to bed, he was
in the other bedroom as cosy as could be in the middle of a big comforter that
was folded up on the floor!  Buki came in and went towards him, and Gypsy zoomed
out of that room back into his own bedroom!

This morning when I went in to feed him, I left his door open slightly, and he
went towards it, slowly, right away.  I had to close it because I don't want him
out when I'm not home yet, but I think he has decided he's ready to explore
the house!!

Steve has finally started playing with him too, he wanted nothing to do with
him all this time!  Guess he's finally given in!

Hugs,
Laura

    His room is now his comfort zone and you will find that he will ALWAYS
    go  back to that room when he gets stressed out.
    
    I'm so happy to hear you have made such great progress....
    
    Sandy

    Sandy... my sentiments exactly!!  Gypsy will use that room as a crutch
    for a long time, but Laura, just wait.  One day you'll find he won't
    need it anymore!  And just wait until the day you're sitting on the
    couch watching TV and Gypsy decides to cuddle up next to you.  You'll
    be so surprised you'll probably start crying!
    

Roberta,

I can almost cry just thinking about it!!  I truly hope that does happen some
day, and that until it does Gypsy will at least allow me a glimpse of himself
every now and then!    


Sandy,

He can use that room for his comfort zone as long as he likes, but Buki doesn't
let him feel very safe in there, I'm afraid!!

Hugs,
Lola

Last night Gypsy ventured forth to yet another room, my room!  He was under my
bed, and I read for a while, trying to keep watch for him out of the corner of
my eye.  I didn't see him creeping out, but by the time I was ready to go to
sleep, he was back in his room!  I went in there for a bit and played with him.
When I was scooping out his box, he started coming over towards me, and wouldn't
Buki pick that time to come in the room. Shucks!! He really looked like he was
coming over to say hello!

The next area for him to explore will require a trip down the stairs, that'll be
a new experience for him!  I hope I can catch him in the act.  He's so funny to
watch.  His movement are extremely comical.  He can't jump at all, it's hard to
believe he's half Siamese!

Lola

    Great!!
    
    Is Gypsy long or short haired?  Longhairs are usually more mellow.
    
    What is his coloring?
    
    Just curious, cause he sounds so beautiful!

Roberta,

Gypsy has medium length fur, very thick and very course.  his coloring is
cream colored bosy, and dark chocolate colored points with blue eyes.  He is
an adorable little kitty, and looks so sweet until you try to get close to him!

Lola

    He sounds beautiful, Laura!  And about the hissing back at him... I
    don't know whether it's good or bad, but I like the idea!!  I'll have
    to try that one on JJ.  I'm actually patting her head now, but not
    without obtaining a few scratches in the process.  She likes it, but
    after a few strokes kind of freaks out and slams me one with her paw. 
    I have to get her used to head patting for when it comes time to
    scruff her and put her into a carrier.  She's definitely coming around
    though, and Gypsy is too!  I want a picture of this famous little kitty
    for my office wall.  (I have a bulletin board full of colorpointed cats
    -- my favorite type!!)
    
    -Roberta

    Roberta, I don't know if you've tried this, but I always let the cat
    sniff my hand a little first, then when he/she stops sniffing, I gently
    stroke their cheek, then the head. I've not yet had a cat (even the 
    current bruiser) who dabbed me back so it seems to work, though I don't 
    know why. 

I had a surprise visit last night...I thought Sabrina and I were all alone
in the room, I have to kick Buki out every night because he gets too 
rambunctious and uses the bed like a trampoline!  I heard a couple of hisses
and spits, and knew Gypsy was with us too!  Then I felt a jump on the bed, and
since Sabrina was laying quietly by my side, it had to be Gypsy up there with us
He was only there for a minute, and must have realized I was in bed so he jumped
off.  

Now when he is in his room and I visit him, he's running away from me more than
before...it's frustrating.  I'll think I'm making progress, and then we take a
big step backwards.

Time to go!

Laura

    You are making great progress...it's just since Gypsy is getting
    a little more confident in you, your cats and in your house...
    so she's playing games with you!!!  She probably enjoys exploring
    the rest of the house and figures...I don't need humans right now!!
    
    The best time to try and work with her is when she is real hungry..
    most of my strays totally ignore me once their belly is full!!
    
    Keep up the GREAT work....
    
    Sandy

Sandy,

The only problem is he's never really hungry, because there's dry food out
for him all day long!!  I guess he'll start exploring downstairs soon, I can't
wait for that!

Laura

    Laura, it is normal for Gypsy to act even more skittish as he's trying
    to acclimate himself to the rest of the house.  Any sudden move will
    probably frighten him, and he'll want to do things on his own time
    without your intervention for awhile.  I think it's great that he
    jumped on the bed, if only for a minute!  That is big progress for a
    feral cat!
    

O.K., it's good to know that's normal!  He must have really been frightened when
I moved when he was on the bed!  Haha!!
Thanks Roberta!
Laura    

I'm going to start "Gypsy's note", note 728!!  These really shouldn't all be under
the feral topic!

Laura

    You all are so smart!  After another Star and Weiderman fight -- when
    Star accidently got out of his room again without me -- I called Joan
    of Kitty Angels and asked for her advice (she is brilliant!).
    
    Joan said that Star had to go into a Tokyo style cage for a minumum of
    3 weeks.  He can come out for loves -- but he now lives in the cage.  
    Joan said that having  his own bedroom served it's purpose to have him
    bond with me.  So just like you suggested (.81!) I'm going for the 
    cage tonight.
    
    From time-to-time I'll update this note with our progress (hope springs
    eternal) so that another person having this problem can see my success
    story in the future.
    
    Again, thanks for all the help and support.
    
    C.C. 

    I hope it works as well for you as it did at my house.
    
    Jan

    Hello!
    
    After a false start (I had to travel for a week) -- we are now into a
    full 3 weeks of Star being in his cage.  Now what, she asks.
    
    I let Star out of his cage for about 10 minutes each evening, with a 
    collar and leash, right in front of his cage. He handles this pretty
    well, rolling around being cute, biting his leash.
    
    My other cats basically ignore Star in the cage, except once in awhile
    Weiderman will hiss and spit as he walks by -- Star makes lovely little
    cooing sounds at Weiderman -- but I'm not fooled!  This AM I let Star out
    of his cage, on the leash, and cats scattered.  Star tried to chase one
    of the cats, but that was probably a desire to chase and play, rather
    than maim and hurt. Weiderman was right back up on the cabinet tops.
    
    Your suggestions would be most welcome -- how to reintroduce Star.
    
    Carel 

Carel,

I just re-read all the notes in my note about Gypsy (note 728), my feral cat.
It took 11 months before he was ready to have free roam of the house.  Don't
give up!!!  I think it would be better to put him back in his room with the hook
on the door than keeping him in a cage most of the time, if you have the room
to spare!

Don't give up, it takes alot of patience and time!

Laura

    ... three steps back and one forward.  I now keep Star in his room when
    I'm not home and in his cage when I am.  In the evenings I let Star out
    of the cage, in a harness & leash ... he loves it, looking out the
    window, playing with Nanu and toys.
    
    ... however the other day Weiderman walked down the hall and Star went
    after him.  I pulled him back with the leash -- and he turned around
    backwards, faced me and pulled with all his strength and slipped right
    out of the harness.  I stood there speechless and would not believe it
    if I didn't see it with my own eyes.  He chased Weiderman all over the
    house, with me in the rear with my trusty water bottle.  When Weiderman
    finally made it to the top of the kitchen cupboards Star quit chasing
    him and made a bee-line to his room.  When I went upstairs he was
    sitting there just looking at me.
    
    I calmed all three of my other cats and then went to Star, no one was
    hurt this time.  He was so loving and sweet (wanna' kill him!).  Star
    then went to sleep and stayed in his bed for the rest of the day and
    night.  He didn't even ask to come out.
    
    So I'm now going to buy a dog harness (this big boy takes an 18" size)
    -- that has two buckles ... no more whimpy kitty harnesses.  
    
    He seems to know that what he did was 'bad' -- hope this is progress.
    The last noter said 11 months for their baby?  This June will be 12 for 
    us.
    
    Thanks for listening!
    Carel

    Carel.....this is not normally the norm, but it does happen.  I
    have had Van Gogh for over 5 years and gave up trying to introduce
    him to the household after about 3 years.   He has a room of his
    own...with alot of attention from us at night.   He is VERY
    content there and HATES all my other cats. 
    
    Now...I have successfully introduced MANY cats (current count is
    at 14), but Van Gogh was one strange case which we tried everything.
    
    Sandy