Conference misery::feline

    That's funny.  In the old days, when I used to put flea collars on my
    cats, whenever we had one of them at the vets, the vet would very
    carefully cut the flea collar off their neck, wrap it in about a
    million layers of paper towels, and then hand it to me saying "this
    really shouldn't be on your cat since it contains chemicals than could
    be potentially harmful".  He was being overly dramatic to make his
    point, but the impression still stays with me.  He wouldn't even touch
    the flea collar with his hands, he used hemostats to handle it!!
    
    I think that if your cat has no fleas, then using a flea collar on her
    "just in case" (since she is an indoor cat) isn't necessary.  Why
    subject her to chemicals when you have no reason too.
    
    If you do have a flea problem, there are lots of other ways to deal
    with them.
    
    Jo                  

    We have indoor-only cats.  We had a flea problem.  We used collars. 
    Rico almost choked to death when his collar got tangled on our
    coatrack.
    
    We farmed the furbs to my father-in-law's, and BUG BOMBED!!!
    
    No fleas, no collars, no problem.
    
    K.C.

    My vet says buying flea collars is like dumping your money down a black
    hole.  He doesn't feel they're very effective since they would only
    keep fleas off the front part of the cat plus they contain potentially
    hazardous chemicals.  I know other noters in this file have talked
    about their cats having severe reactions to them.  I kind of liken flea
    collars to having an open container of Raid around your neck.
    
    He recommends no collars and if you develop a flea problem to treat it
    aggressively with other means (sprays, vacuuming, etc.)
    
    T
    

       collars - NO! - as said, there are many better ways to handle a flea
    problem, if in fact you get one.  Don't put dangerous chemicals on
    kitty. I don't even know why they sell those stupid things,  they're
    dangerous (fear of hanging) and they don't work anyway.  Terrible
    allergic reactions can result.
    
       Denise with 12 cats and no collars and no fleas

    I'd rather not use them.  Even tho mine are indoors we did have a flea
    problem about 3 years ago (probably picked up a healthy female traveler
    from a friends dog).  I put collars on them - one got a reaction - the
    other one got it in his mouth while licking and got sick - I cut them
    all of and threw them out.  I'd rather flea comb, bathe and spray than
    deal with the harm that the collar can bring about.
    
    Giudi

if your home becomes infested with fleas, a flea collar will delay your
awareness of the problem until it gets worse!  If no flea collar is there,
the fleas spend more time on the cat - and with regular grooming, you find
them quickly.  At that point, flea collars aren't going to help you...after
all, you are food for fleas too.  You must practice maintenance of the 
home and landscape to deter fleas...this means a regular program of spraying
the outside around your home with spray for that purpose - moving from the
house OUT to the perimeter of the yard.  This means a quick and decisive
move to kill fleas in the home when they are detected.  I take my cats to
the vets for "day care" (a small charge for 8 hours of cage time)...and then
SPRAY the carpets and baseboards everywhere in the home with vet-approved
chemicals, following all directions to the letter.  I don't bring cats home
until the carpets are completely dry.  I then flea-comb every cat every day
until there are no more fleas for 5 days.  It works....and, in my experience,
nothing else does.  Bombs have never done me any good and they can damage wood
furniture.

    I am a believer...I am a believer!!!  After reading multiple notes
    from Jo about using Borax as part of your maintenance cleaning...I
    do believe you can control the infestation of fleas in you home with
    that method.
    
    When flea season was at it's worse...I did use breakaway flea collors
    on my indoor/outdoor kitty.  When I first get a collar...I unwrap it
    and hang it outside for atleast one week prior to putting it on
    the cat.
    
    Sand 
    
    

    Thanks for all of your responses.  I'm convinced.  The vet doesn't know
    what he's talking about (I've thought that before about other things). 
    I'm not going to put a flea collar on Patches.  And if by some chance
    we have a problem, I'll deal with it then.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Pam & Patches
    

    Actually, there is ONE thing that flea collars are good for...
    
    We have a carpeted, screened-in porch, and I supposed that buggy-boos
    can get in that way - our 2 furbs are allowed to sit in this porch area
    as it is still indoors, but outdoor-ish.
    
    Anyway, take one (1) flea collar, cut it up, and put it in the vaccuum
    cleaner!  This will vacuum up the buggers and kill them safely in the
    bag!  No pick up, no poison, no danger.  We vacuum our porch, and it
    keeps fleas out.
    
    K.C.

    I know I am going to get remarks for this, but I use a break-away flea
    collar to id my cat.  I write his name and our phone number on the
    collar.  I did buy a name tag and regular collar that was elastic (i.e.
    to maintain the available of being able to get out of being caught
    somewhere).  I had it  on him somewhat snug with enough room so as not
    to come close to choking him.  Well, within a week the collar and tag
    were gone.  Now, when I used the flea collar, I never found it gone, and
    Chief has never gotten caught anywhere where he could not get out.  I
    am going to order another id tag an put it around the flea collar,
    but I cant keep losing these things.  I dont want to use a non-escape
    collar.   I dont like the idea of using a flea collar with its
    chemicals, but this seems to work in terms of "IDing" him.  For fleas I
    am feeding him Brewers Yeast.  Will see how that works once the fleas
    come out in a few weeks.
    
    					Sandy

        I am a firm believer in the flea comb.  I never put a flea collar
    on my cats (indoor only).  I have only had problems once with fleas,
    and the best thing was the flea comb.  
    
    

    
    One of my indoor/outdoor cats seems to be allergic to fleas; if I keep\
    a flea collar on him in the summer he is fine, but if he doesn't have
    the collar, he starts to lose hair.  He's black, and when the hair
    falls out, it grows back stark white... so he has some funny patches on
    him.  I don't like flea collars much either, but they stopped this 
    hair loss problem.

    I put a flea collar on Mocha April 1st. (if the snow is gone like this
    year) and it stays on till November. I too put the new flea collar
    out doors for a week before I put it on him. The soil around out
    house is very sandy and he picks up the fleas from there. No, they
    are not sand fleas. Mocha is the cat you can't comb and he gets a flea
    bath when he gets groomed every six weeks also.  We occasionally put
    flea collars on the two indoor cats when the warm weather comes and
    they lay near the attrium door.  I know Tim and I have occasionally
    bought fleas in our shoes and socks or pant legs. Usually by late
    July the have subsidded somewhat. The ticks were very bad last year
    and the year before that is why we keep Mocha's collar on so long.
    Ugh, they are ugly critters.
    
    Oh yes, we use only Zodiak flea collars, the others are a waste of
    money. The breakaway ones cost like $8.00 but are worth it.
    
    Barbara
    

    Barbara,
    
    RC Steele Catalog has the Zodiac Breakaway Flea Collars for cats...
    for less then $4.00 a piece. (I think it's #3.69)   the only draw
    back is that you have to spend atleast $50 when ordering.  They
    have some other great stuff too...catbeds, bowls, shampoos, enzyme
    cleaners, cages, treats, etc!! 
    
    Too bad I didn't know...because another feliner and myself just sent
    in our orders together!   If you would like the catalog...just let
    me know where to mail it too!
    
    Sandy

>>    I put a flea collar on Mocha April 1st. (if the snow is gone like this
>>    year) and it stays on till November. I too put the new flea collar
    
    Barbara, you cursed us!  Too soon to say "snow is gone"!!! (for the
    benefit of those not in the greater NH area, we had about 4 or 5 inches
    of white stuff come down last night.  it was so bad that we lost power
    all evening.  Nashua had an inch or two but farther north was hit with
    much more.  bleh!)

    Since this note is starting to look like a repository of flea-treatment
    advice, let me just mention brewer's yeast as well. We tried it last
    summer with Rebecca and Amanda (a sprinkle on their food at every
    meal), and for the first time didn't see a single flea all summer.
    What's more they lapped it up (they're usually a little picky about
    their food) and seemed disappointed at the end of the season when
    they didn't get it any more. I also fairly diligently dusted them
    with flea powder every week, but I always did that in previous years
    too, so I'm convinced the brewer's yeast did the trick.
    $10 for a season's supply sure beats out all those flea bombs.
    
    ...Robert

three caveats about brewers yeast:

so far, no research trial has been able to prove that brewers yeast has any
effect on fleas.  The rumour persists that it works, and some people seem to
have good luck with brewers yeast used in combination with other products, but
research does not support the claim that the yeast has contributed to the
success of their flea control methods.

cats may gain weight when eating brewers yeast.  It is a concentrated form of
calories and if your cat has a weight problem, this product will NOT help
with weight management.

some cats may have a negative response to brewers yeast- it can cause skin
problems and it can cause digestive problems.

    I have been feeding Chief brewers yeast for about 3 weeks now and all
    seemed fine.  For the first time since we got him last Aug he actually
    threw up his food  this morning.  It looked barely chewed.  I was told
    that he probably ate too fast.  He was his usual whiney self, wanting
    nothing but out.  I cannot check his stool since he goes solely outside
    now.   Would the yeast tablets after all this time have anything to do
    with this? or is it just a combo of hairballs and eating too fast .
    The other strange problem is that he is usually very friendly
    with the neighbors cats (who are also neutered).  He almost got into a
    fight with a strange cat the other day, and this morning the same thing
    happened with one of the familar cats.  The familar cat through was in
    our garage, whereas Chief has usually played with them in  their yard.
    
    		I know this is not really relevant to the topic but I
    figured I put my concerns here rather than in a new note.

    This is shedding season, and my 3 longhairs are ingesting what they
    groom faster than I can comb it out!  Herbie's fur is literally falling
    off in clumps, and he is losing a lot of his beautiful Himalayan coat.
    
    I have started them on Petromalt, and it is helping lots.  It helps
    when you have a cat like Herbie who will barrel over everyone else to
    lick it off the tube!  He's been doing great on it so far.
    
    Chief could be bothered by hairballs, or he could have a touch of URI. 
    Viruses are amuck now; tis the season!  Whenever one of my cats is
    behaving out of character I keep them under scrunity and schedule a vet
    visit if it persists for longer than a few days.
    
    --Roberta
    

RE: .18

Yet another side-effect from brewers yeast that I forgot to mention....cats
and dogs that ingest the product regularly will smell slightly different to
other cats and dogs...it also happens to humans, FYI, but our noses aren't
as finely tuned as the companion animals....and, as it happens gradually,
it doesn't make our companion animals refuse to talk to us...we may, however,
notice a different response in animals that we don't see all the time.  As
cats are even more nose-oriented than dogs, you will usually see the problem
more with cats - as in "Mom's cat decided she doesn't know me - after all this
time!".

If Chief has had no problem ingesting the yeast up to this point, you are
probably looking at a problem of either "food too cold" or cat too hungry
and bolting his food.  If the problem continues right after meals, I would:

	1) stop feeding the yeast
	2) see the vet - and TELL the vet that you have been feeding the
	   yeast

Brewers yeast may not be a problem for your cat....however, it CAN be, and you
need to keep your vet informed if you start feeding it to your pets.  It is
both packed with calories, AND LOADED with B vitamins - which, in theory, are
water-soluable and, therefore, NOT toxic if overloaded in the body.  These
theories are proven ONLY IN THE HUMAN BODY however, and cats and dogs are
different enough in their dietary needs that common sense indicates a need
for caution....and DO use other flea control methods whether you use the yeast
or not.  Some very reputable scientists have examined the flea-control 
properties of yeast and have determined that there simply aren't any.  As these
tests have been repeated in several places throughout the world - by folks
who stand to make a fortune if a new flea control method is found - I'm 
betting they are right.

    Re: .7 - What do you do with the Borax - sprinkle it on the carpet and
    then vacuum?
    
    I have two indoor only cats and have been having a problem with fleas. 
    I have been told that they can come in with you and then they will
    "feed" off of the cats and breed in the carpets.  I have been using a
    flea comb to get them off of the cats, but it seemed that I would find
    fleas on them everyday.  
    
    A couple of weeks ago we had someone come to our house and put a
    special powder down on all the carpets.  It is supposed to kill the
    fleas, and he guarantees it for a year.  He said that we would still
    some fleas for the first few weeks, but after that there should not be
    any.  Well, I am trying to be patient and wait a few weeks, but now I
    am finding even more fleas on the cats.  The only thing I can figure
    out is that the fleas are trying to get out of the carpet where the
    powder is and get on the cats instead.  I hate putting flea powder on
    the cats because it makes them feel and smell awful.
    
    Has anyone else experienced this same type of treatment, or can anyone
    give me any advice?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Debbie

    
         sounds like the stuff the pros used was to kill larva and eggs.
    If  you want to get rid of adults now, bombing always seems to work.
    Often this is used in conjunction with a dip/comb of the cats
    themselves. Make sure their beds/etc. are clean as well.  I had an 
    infestation once about 3 years ago.  It was unbelievable!  You could
    walk into the attic and your legs would be covered in a second.  The
    rooms and cats became covered quickly too.  I don't know what started
    them,  we think one of the cats we adopted from the wild at that time
    must have had them.  We bombed to kill all adults, using a pyrethrum
    based product.  I think we used 4 bombs to cover our square footage.
    Then we applied that stuff to kill the eggs and larva.  The cats were
    thouroughly combed (bathing, I was told "by them" was strictly forbidden
    and when you have 10 cats that don't want to be bathed, then 10 cats
    don't get bathed!).  We haven't had a flea since.  We just apply the
    borax/herb mixture which we make at home once a month from April to
    November.  Hasn't been a'one since. For at least 3 years!  It's great!
    
     Denise and the gang of 10
    

    
          forgot to mention also, the borax is best left on for a bit
    before being vacuumed up. What you are doing is using it as a desiccant
    to pull up moisture from the carpets which kills the eggs.  I usually
    apply, then wait a day to vac.  Use on a regular basis.  You may want
    to test a patch of carpet with it first, in case  your carpet is
    sensitive.
    

    re: .23  Is it safe to let kitties walk on the carpet when the borax is
    on it?
    
    Also, how old does a kitten have to be before they can be dipped?  I'm
    moving to a new apartment and want to make sure my new kitties don't
    bring lots of fleas in with them.
    
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    The borax is not a problem for the cats.  Mine walked on it for a while
    and show no ill effects.  The best part about borax is that is supposed
    to be non-toxic to the animals.
    
    I believe that any product you use should have a recommendation on the
    label about what age kittens should not use the products.  Check the 
    label before using it.  If I remember correctly the stuff I have said
    not to use on kittens under 4 months of age.  I can check that tonight
    to be sure.  I use Hills Flea Stop Flea Shampoo; does anyone remember 
    off the top of their heads what age it says on the warning?  I used to
    use the flea dip but changed to flea shampoo somewhere along the line.
    
    Jan

    What is the Borax/Herb mixture?  I either missed seeing it or it's not
    included.  I know what Borax is but what is the herb and why is it
    used?  What does it do mixed with Borax?
    

      sorry for the confusion,  it's a homemade mixture I use at home.
    I'm really into herbs, there are many that are used to repel insects,
    such as mint(several varieties), pennyroyal, patchouli, etc.  Fleas
    hate them for sure I guess.  I just dry some, crush 'em up and mix with
    the borax for that extra edge.
    
         Denise

    Last summer when my house was infested with fleas we used the Borax on
    a daily basis for one week.   We would sprinkle it on...let it sit
    for atleast 4-6 hours...and then vacuum.  As another noter noted...
    the longer you leave it down the better it works.   I do not believe it
    is toxic to kitties...but it sure makes a mess when they walk through
    it and then jumps on the furniture!!  But I would rather deal with
    that then deal with zillions of fleas!!
    
    This year as soon as I saw my first flea....I started a weekly routine
    of sprinkling the Borax and so far I feel I am still on top of the
    problem.
    
    Sandy
     

    You say that you just "sprinkle" it around on the carpet.  How much
    does it usually take you for your whole house?

    Well it really matters...when I was infested with fleas I sprinkled
    it very heavily...but now I just do a light dusting on a weekly basis.
    An entire box normally does about 6-7 carpets.....I use my colander 
    to sprinkle it!
    
    I have eight indoor/outdoor cats...and I can say I'm still ahead of
    the problem!!  (knock on wood)  Of course I also flea comb the cats
    a couple times a week.
    
    Sandy
    
    

    
    I have three cats that are indoor only, and I have just had a major
    (well, I consider it major) flea infestation.  One of the cats was
    REALLY loaded, but the two others had just a few.  We shampooed the
    kitties, we didn't know how many fleas were in the house, but we 
    wanted to be sure we killed them all, so we BOMBED.
    
    We just did this yesterday.
    
    What a pain.
    
    The Pet Supply store that we got the stuff (FLEA STOP, in the
    handy 4 oz cans, 3 cans per box) said that we would need to bomb again
    in 8 - 10 days, but it doesn't say that on the box of flea bomb.
    
    Would the experienced flea bombers please let me know if this is true? 
    I certainly don't want them coming back, and I can only guess that the
    second bomb is for the flea eggs which are not mature yet, but would be
    mature in 8 - 10 days.
    
    We also purchased 3 flea collars (ZODIAK) and the cats have never had
    any kind of a collar, so they are less than pleased.
    
    We have flea spray (cats hate it).  Would I be better off with a
    powder?  I think what they really hate is the spraying noise (it's a
    pump).
    
    I can't believe I have fleas.  We have never had a problem, and I've
    had indoor AND outdoor cats for years!
    
    Are we talking the BORAX that is the powdered soap stuff?
    
    Please give me all your de-flea-ing suggestions.  I will use them all,
    just in case.
    
    Help me.
                                        

    The Borax is not the soap (in the little round container); you can find
    it in a box in the laudry detergent section of the grocery store (at
    least that's where I found it).  The procedure for using the Borax to
    kill the flea eggs is rather involved, and it does not kill adult
    fleas.  You can mix it with flea powder, though, to get the adults.  
    
    You have to vacuum everything thoroughly, and throw the vacuum bag
    away.  Then sprinkle the Borax everywhere, moving furniture and
    sprinkling it on the couch as well.  Leave it on for 24 hours, then
    vacuum it up and get rid of the vacuum bag.  Then vacuum everyday for a
    week throwing away the vacuum bag each time.  After that, I think you
    do just the Borax for 24 hours once a week or once a month (can't
    remember).  I have Jo's instructions for doing this somewhere; if I can
    find them and she doesn't mind (Jo?), I'll post them.
    
    One thing that really helps (or so I've heard) to keep the fleas out of
    the house, is to spray around the entrances to your house as well as 
    around the foundation with a non-toxic flea spray.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    yes, you do have to repeat the bombing again - usually 2-3 weeks after
    the first.
    but,  once  you kill the adults, the borax seems to work great!
    
    Denise who has 10 cats, but hasn't had a flea in 3 years (since using
    the borax)

    I also am a Borax believer and generally follow the same
    instructions that were posted. I think Borax is great as
    a maintenance produce...but I'm not sure how much it will 
    help if your truly infested.  I have never used the bombs
    so I can't help you there.
    
    Another product I just recently tried was Duratrol Flea Spray
    which can be bought from your vet.   It is a fine spray that
    you can spray direction on the carbets, furniture etc.   The
    good news is you only have to vacate that room for one hour.
    It's says once it dries it is non-toxic to animals...and it
    last for 90-120 days.   It suppose to kill the fleas at the
    larvae stage and the adult stage.   So far I do like it....(actually 
    feel flealess for the moment) and I'll let you know if it is still
    working in 60 days.
    
    For the kitties...I find that they tolerate the powder better
    then the spray.
    
    Just be careful that you don't overdo it...and use multiple
    products that could be toxic if mixed together.  I only say
    that because when I work the doggie Dips we are requested
    to ask the owners to remove the flea collar for atleast
    a week after the dip.  The mixture of the chemicals could be
    toxic.   That is one reason why I do like the Borax.
    
    Good luck...you will beat them...but it takes alot of work!!
    
    Sandy

    
    
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!
    
    What an ordeal!  It sure does take a lot of work... it is about the
    only thing that my husband and I have been talking about, thinking
    about, and doing things for, for the last 4 days!
    
    I purchased some flea powder last night, along with a flea comb (I have
    never owned one, never NEEDED one).  The kitties tolerate the powder
    application MUCH more than the spray... I feel so bad "torturing"
    them... they don't know what's gotten into mommy and daddy!  The poor
    babes are at the point where if they see me coming with ANYTHING in my
    hands, they BOLT!
    
    Wow, I never knew what a mess this could be.  I have a new admiration 
    for pet owners who go through this battle against fleas every year.
    
    Thank you all again!
    
    Janet                            
    

    On my daily cat calendar for yesterday was the following:  "The best
    flea powder is made with the insecticide rotenone, which is both
    non-toxic to pets and highly effective."  Are any of you familiar with
    that insecticide?  
    
    Steffi

    
    my husband and i just took our 4 cats (one of which is a 4/6 month old
    kitten) to the vet to get dipped.  our house is infested.  so are all
    the cats, the littlest being the worst.  we tried spraying and
    shampooing and zodiac sprays but nothing.  the house is being bombed
    while the cats are at the vets and this is what the vet told us:
    
    the bombs (3) for a 6 room house will kill the fleas and eggs.  only
    this particular brand will do this though -- and no i don't know what
    it is, yet.  
    
    he said that with the recent humid weather tons of "pan?" fleas came
    out.  if indoor cats (which all ours are) sit in the screened windows,
    they will come right in from the outside.  i guess so.. i have never
    seen more fleas in my life.
    
    do you think such a bomb exists?  are we going to have to bomb again? 
    will the cats  get fleas agains if we wait a week to bomb again?
    
    new to this...
    
    cj

         There are bombs out there that contain PRECOR which is a
    hormonal?? type of control. The bomb kills the adult fleas and
    hopefully the eggs. The precor will prevent any larvae that hatch from
    ever becoming adult fleas. Whereas the insecticide in a bomb is fairly
    shortlived the precor is supposed to last 120 days. I had a great deal
    of success with it last year. This year ,possibly due to it being out
    of date, the leftover spray from last year didn't seem to work. I had
    seen small bottles of precor which could be mixed with a gallon of
    water for spraying carpets and furniture. I haven't been able to find
    any this year.
    
         Bob

Yup, I know there is--I think both VetKem and Zodiac have precor.  Good pet
shops sell Zodiac; vets sell VetKem...

Mary

    Jeffers Vet Supply sells Vetkem and Adams and other good flea
    control stuff, and it's 1/2 the cost of the pet store or vet!

I've had very good luck using the spray RAID put out on the carpets and
furniture.  I have 2 indoor/outdoor cats and they tend to bring in passengers.
To make matters worse, we have a lot of sandy-soil at the base of the house.
The spray I used was made specially for fleas.  It came in a yellow can last
year.  It killed the original fleas and kept the eggs that started to hatch
from reaching maturity for a full 3 months after spraying.

	Liz
( who needs to start de-fleaing again for this year (8^(  )

What is a flea comb?  Is it the same as a pet comb, or are the teeth narrower?
Would it be more effective than a regular pet comb?

I just purchased some brewer's yeast, but have no idea how much to put into my
pets' food.  The packaging only gives directions for humans.  Can anyone help
me determine the amount.  I have 4 cats ranging from 6.6 lbs. to 13 lbs.

RE #22:  Where would I purchase the herbs you mentioned (mint, pennyroyal,
patchouli, etc.).  I know where I could purchase the seeds, but I'd rather not
try growing them now.  Also, what ratio do you use to the borax?

If borax is non-toxic to animals, can you put the borax directly on the cats
instead of using, or in addition to using, flea powder?

Any assistance you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Pam

    A flea comb has closely packed, small diameter teeth that when
    you use it, the fleas get caught between the teeth and you can
    kill the little buggers...I drop them into a can of soapy hot
    water.....
    
    Borax is not to be used directly on the cats.  While it is non-toxic,
    it can make your cat ill if he/she ingests too much while trying to
    clean it off his/her fur.......
    
    LynnE

    I'll try to answer some of your questions....because last year
    I was hit with a pretty bad infestation.  This year...I got smarter...
    even before seeing a flea...I started treating the cats/house on
    a regular basis.  And considering I have 9 cats with most of them
    indoor/outdoor...I believe I have stayed on top of the problem with
    alot of work.
    
    A flea comb has very small teeth.  When you comb the cats...the fleas
    get stuck in the teeth.  What I do is get a bowl of water with a bit
    of dish detergent...and as I picked fleas...I put them in the bowl
    and watch them drown. I TRY real hard to comb the cats every other night!!
    
    As far as Borax...it is non-toxic to the cats...but PLEASE do not
    put it on the cats.  The Borax can be spread on rugs, furniture, bedspread
    etc.....it does not kill the fleas...but it does dry up the eggs!!
    The best results is to keep the Borax down for a few days....but since
    I am in maintenance mode (not a big flea problem)...I put it down
    every other week for only 3-4 hours..and then vacuum.  Don't forget
    to throw away the vacuum bag!!
    
    If you have a bad infestation...you might consider a professional
    or go talk to your vet about special sprays/bombs that you can
    by for Do-it-yourself job!  WE had pretty good luck with a Durtrol
    spray for carpets/furniture and we use Zodiac Powder or Adams Flea
    Powder on the furfaces!!
    
    Good luck...it is a lot of work...but if you don't take care of the
    problem...it will only get worse.  Also if you do have indoor/outdoor
    cats...you TRULY have to stay on top of the problem...and next year
    try to stay ahead of it!!  Outsmart them!!!
    
    Sandy

    Probably an odd question, but I just have to know : )
    I am caring for a stray (again).  One of my dogs and my big cat are
    allergic to flea-killing products, so I hand-pick fleas from them. 
    This little stray boy is very docile, and submits to his nightly
    inspection easily enough.  But I'm curious if I'm getting anywhere.  If
    you find one flea, is it very likely there are 5 more? 25 more? 100
    more?  I hesitate to put flea products on him, so I prefer to do it by
    hand.  But I found 5 on him last night, mostly on his face. Which leads
    me to wonder if I'm missing MANY more on his body?  Very little flea
    dirt, and I've never seen him scratch.  My dogs are flea-free, and my
    cat appears to be clean, so I don't want this little hobo brings
    "friends" in with him and infesting the rest of the gang (and house).
    Anybody care to venture a guess?
    Sarah

    I think a good way to tell is by seeing how much flea dirt you get!!
    
    Now the bad news.....
    It is also my opinion that if you find  one on a cat...you
    have more in the house!!!  Fleas just jump on a cat for lunch and
    a ride...and spend most of their time in the carpets!!
    
    Sandy

Thanks for the information!

Don't the fleas jump off the comb, or are the teeth so tight that they get stuck
in them?

My problem began when I went on vacation.  I took all my pets with me and they
were outdoors on a leash during the day.  That's probably where they picked up
the fleas.

I have bombed my apartment, but that didn't stop the fleas.  I have dipped all
my cats and my dog several times, put flea powder on them (which gives me an
asthma attack from the dust), and I have been spraying the apartment every other
day with Zodiac Indoor Flea Control.  This spray is supposed to kill the eggs as
well as the adults for up to 210 days.  I think it may be helping some, but I'm
still getting fleas.  The fleas seem to be getting smaller in size, though.

I'm going to try using the borax.  I have it at home, because I use it in my
laundry for tough stains.

It definitely takes a lot of time and patience getting rid of those darned fleas.

How would I get ahead of the fleas next year, since I do a lot of camping in
the summer?  Any suggestions?

Pam

    I'm not an expert (and I don't even play one on tv) but...
    
    I'd be careful about how many combinations of chemicals I used around
    the animals.  Bombs, flea powder, dips, sprays, etc.  Seems like an
    awful lot of stuff.  Try the borax method.  My sister, Jo Ann, swears
    by it.  If you want a copy of the step-by-step instructions Jo Ann sent 
    me, I'll be happy to send you a copy.  Just let me know.
    
    If the borax method works for you and you keep it going on a
    maintenance basis (after you get rid of the initial load of fleas) you
    may not have a problem next year.
    
    Jan
    

    
                    Help with Fleas
    
    
     I also have been infested this year.I have been beside myself
    trying everything but moving..I have 2 cats one persian and one
    himmy. They see me coming now and both take off.
     We had them both dipped two weeks ago and bombed he apartment.
    At that time I stripped all the bedding and small carpets. I washed
    seven batches of clothes.Everything in the house was clean.We bought
    the bombs at the vet and also some Adams Spray for fleas.They advised
    this for a few days after the diping.I also am afraid of all the
    chemicals I am subjecting my babies to.
     Today I called Flea Busters, they say this stuff will keep you flea
    free for 1 year from time of application but the cost is $150.00 for 
    3 rooms with rugs or less. Anything of 3 is an additional $30.00 a
    room. 
     I have decided to get them dipped one more time and try bombing one
    more time. Any help or solutions to this awful problem would be
    appreciated.
    
                  Judy Mandeville     Node:: scoman::mandeville
                                      extension:5806
    

    I also would be very careful mixing all the chemicals.  When we
    work the doggie dip we have to instruct the people not to use
    other flea products on the dogs for atleast 1 week and to take
    off the flea collars for 1 week.  It's bad to mix the different
    chemicals!!
    
    What I mean to stay on top of the problem... is as soon as we start
    to get warner days...start the Borax routine right away and start
    flea combing the kitties!!  BTW...the fleas get stuck in the comb!!!
    If and when you start seeing fleas.....do the Borax more often and
    either bath/dip your cat or use the spray/powder.   
    
    Good luck...
    
                                        

         From the USENET ...
    
Article: 15083
From: rivkin@watson.bms.com (Teresa Rivkin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Fleas and the Hazards of PetCor
Organization: Bristol Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute
Lines: 62
 
I've been meaning to post this, but I've been extremently busy recently 
fighting the war against fleas and the resulting illnesses to our kitties 
because of fleas.  Our cats will NEVER leave the house again!
 
About two months ago, we found out our cats had fleas when the long-haired cat 
was taken to the groomer to be shaved.  Up until February, the cats had always 
been indoor cats, but since my husband and I moved to a farm-like area and the 
house had a fenced in back yard, my husband decided they should be let out.  I 
tried to warn him, but.....
 
Anyway, we immediately stopped letting the cats out and contracted with an 
exterminator for a 90 day flea clean-out plan.  By this time, the cats were 
scratching themselves raw in places and pulling out clumps of fur!  The first 
time the exterminator came, we took both cats to the vet for a flea bath and 
dip.  We waited three weeks, and then had the exterminator come back again to 
do the house.  During this time, my husband was combing the cats (sometimes 
getting 15-20 fleas off them at a time!) and we were bathing them with stuff 
the vet gave us.  The bathing part sounds all well and good, but we found 
there is no way to prevent the fleas from crawling to their head when the 
water hits them.  We even saturated their heads with flea spray prior to 
starting their bath, but that didn't help.  We could see fleas all over their 
face when we took them out of the tub.  Gross!!!!!
 
The second time the exterminator came out, my husband didn't think we needed 
to take them back to the vet for a flea bath/dip (much to my opposition).  The 
exterminator gave him a bottle of something called PetCor (not PreCor!) to use 
on the cats.  He said it would kill the fleas dead.  So, when the cats came 
back into the house after the 2nd extermination, we literally drenched them in 
the PetCor the exterminator gave us.  I sure as hell did kill some fleas, but 
it also caused a severe neurological reaction in one cat and a slight one in 
the other!  We had to rush Arpeggio to the vet the next day because he was 
soooo hot.  The vet had to bath him to get the PetCor off his fur and give him 
a shot to counteract the effects of the PetCor.  We then noticed that both of 
our cats ears were twitching uncontrollably.  The vet said this was part of 
the neurological reaction.  We had to bathe the other cat at home to get the 
stuff off of her too.  To make a long story short, my husband called the 
exterminator to warn them about what happened.  The exterminator then put him 
in touch with the company that makes the product and we are trying to get them 
to reimburse us for the vet bills.
 
I've had several conversations with the vet and groomers about fleas and how 
to get rid of them.  The long and short of it is that they are not dying 
easily this year for whatever reason.  We just had the exterminator out to our 
house a third time (this time the cats were taken to the vet for a flea bath). 
I'm hoping this is the last time it will be necessary, but I'm not gonna bank 
on it.  By the way, the new vet we started taking our cats to WILL NOT give 
cats a flea DIP, because they say it can be toxic to cats.  They will, 
however, give them a flea bath.  There is a definite difference in the 
products used!
 
Sorry this got so long, but with all the postings I've seen recently about 
people trying to get rid of fleas I thought it was necessary to warn everyone 
about PetCor.  I also want to wish anyone who is trying to get rid of fleas 
luck.  The past couple of months have been hell!  Oh, and I forgot to mention 
that both cats got tapeworms from the fleas too.  Of course, I was the one to 
discover those wormy rice-like things hanging off their asses while they were 
sitting in my lap!  Yuuuuuccckkkk!
 
Terri Rivkin
Bristol-Myers Squibb
Princeton, NJ
rivkin@bms.com

    Does anyone have experience with fleabusters?
    
    Sandy

    I don't have any info on fleabusters, but I want to comment on some of
    the other replies.
    
    First, I really believe that it was the Borax treatment that got rid of
    my flea problem (although, my infestation was nothing like what is
    mentioned here).  Since it gets to the eggs, it really nips the problem
    in the bud.  But you do have to be consistent and keep on top of the
    problem by reapplying the Borax every week or month.
    
    Second, about fleas scampering to the kitties' heads when bathing.  The
    first thing I do is apply the flea soap around kitty's neck and work it
    in real good before even getting kitty wet.  That should keep the fleas
    off of kitty's head so you can was them all down the drain instead.
    
    --Michelle

    
    
                               Flea Busters
    
                   I called Flea Busters yesterday to get some info on
    their treatment.From what the person told me the ingredients they use
    are non-toxic even to children. They said you do not hve to take
    animals out of the house for this either.
                   The woman on the phone also told me they stand behind
    their product for 1 full year your pet and home will be flea free.Here
    is their toll free number in case you want to call and if you have 
    a vet they have brochures with a $5.00 discount.
    
       Phone number is::1-800-743-3532
                        1-800-rid-flea
    
         The charge is $150.00 for 3 or less carpeted rooms.Anything over
    this is an additional $30.00 per carpeted  room..